COY Finalist Series 2019-Asheville Area Chamber of Commerce with Kit Cramer

This transcript has been lightly edited for readability and to correct obvious transcription errors while preserving the meaning of the original conversation.

Episode 27 — Asheville Area Chamber 2019 Chamber of the Year Finalist with Kit Cramer
Clean Speaker-Labeled Transcript
Guest: Kit Cramer
Automated QA: Passed

00:00.246 Brandon Burton
This is a special edition of Chamber Chat Podcast as I begin a series of interviewing the finalist for Chamber of the Year for twenty nineteen. I hope you enjoyed this series, but first the intro. This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.
00:30.008 Brandon Burton
Thank you for joining us today for our fourth interview in our special series of the 2019 ACCE Chamber of the Year finalists. This is episode 27 of Chamber Chat Podcast, and I'm Brandon Burton. It is my goal to introduce you to people and ideas so you can better serve your Chamber members and your community. If you're new to the Chamber Chat Podcast, please visit Chamberchat Podcast.com/slash start. To learn more about what you can expect from the show, and you can receive some valuable tips for some non-duce revenue ideas that you can use at your chamber. Again, that's Chamberchatpodcast.com/slash start. Before we jump into the show today, let's take a quick moment to learn about our sponsor for this episode. Chambers are not considered for chamber of the year without having great programs and steady streams of non-dues revenue. I want to introduce you to a great affinity program from Swipe It. In partnership with Chamber Chat Podcast, Swipeit is one of the best credit card processors in the business. With the Swipe It Affinity program, you can save up to 40% on your credit card processing fees at the Chamber and help your member partners to do the same. Chambers who take advantage of the Swipe It Affinity program can add thousands of dollars to their non-dues revenue annually. Please visit Chamberchatpodcast dot com slash CC for more information and to request your complimentary cost savings analysis from the experts at Swipeit. The first twenty chambers to respond will qualify for free equipment to get set up. Again, visit chamberchatpodcast.com slash C C to start swiping with Swipeit. All right, our guest today is Kit Cramer. From the Asheville Area Chamber of Commerce in North Carolina. Kit became president and CEO of the Asheville Area Chamber of Commerce in November 2010. She has emphasized the importance of growing jobs, serving as a voice for business, and helping chamber members thrive while pursuing the chamber's mission of building community through business. The Asheville Chamber was named Chamber of the Year in 2018 by the Carolinas Association of
02:54.232 Brandon Burton
Chamber Executives, and as a finalist, of course, this year for the Association Chamber of Commerce Executives at Chamber of the Year in 2019. Prior to coming to Asheville, Kramer was president of the International Downtown Association headquartered in Washington, D.C. Before the International Downtown Association, Kramer worked for the Charlotte Chamber of Commerce for 17 years. She sir served as the organization's Executive Director of Membership Services, where she worked with the chamber's seven area chapters. As vice president in the Economic Development Division, she worked as a recruiter for the new business as well as an advocate for existing businesses. As group vice president for education, she worked on education, public policy, and workforce development initiatives. She also served as the organization's vice president of communications. Prior to a tenure at the Charlotte Chamber, she served as public information officer for two school systems. While in Charlotte, Kramer was elected as an at-large member of the Charlotte Mecklenburg Board of Education and served as vice chair for three years. And was one of 50 participants in the North Carolina Influencers Project by the Charlotte Observer, the Rally News and Observer and the McClatchy Washington Bureau. Kramer just completed her two-year term as chair of the United Way Asheville in Buncombe County in 2019. She serves on the Buncombe County's Early Childhood Committee and is a member of the Asheville City Schools Equality Collaborative. As a graduate of the University of Florida with a degree in journalism and PR, Kramer is a native of Jacksonville, Florida. She has received her certified chamber executive designation from the Association of Chamber of Commerce Executives. She's been married to her husband Mark for 35 years, and they have two grown children, Catherine and Mac, who live in Charlotte. Kit, please say hello to the audience.
05:11.751 Brandon Burton
And if you could share something interesting about yourself that we might not have learned about you from your bio.
05:17.987 Kit Cramer
I think you probably learned that I have a bio that's way too long.
05:21.358 Brandon Burton
You're not the first person to say that.
05:24.11 Kit Cramer
I need a shorter biographical sketch. I I'm not sh I I think you've gotten my my entire life there. I'm I'm the the only other thing that I would add that may be of interest to to people is that I'm I am super creative and all the all the time involved in learning new artistic skills, whether it's block printing or or painting floor cloths or using clay in interesting ways. It's all I'm I'm a I'm a artist wannabe.
06:01.39 Brandon Burton
That is interesting. I you know, I love finding things out about people by asking that question. I never would have guessed it. That is neat. can you share with us a little bit about the size of the Asheville area chamber so we can all relate to your area and your chamber a little bit better?
06:18.638 Kit Cramer
Sure. The Asheville Chamber. We officially, it's the Asheville area chamber because we have members outside of Buncombe County, but we have about 1,700 members. Our budget is about three, three point, it was $3.2 million. Next year, it's actually going to be over $4 million, which is great growth for us. The community is approaching, the MSA is approaching a Million people, which will take us into an entirely different tier of competition. Yeah. And it's but the city itself is pretty small, about 90,000 people, but fully 40% of our workforce comes from outside our county every day into Asheville to work. So it's we definitely are have a an MSA that is both a mix of urban and rural. So it's a it's an interesting place to be. We're in Western North Carolina and North Carolina is a really wide state for people who aren't familiar with the geography. We're in the mountains and having it's a beautiful area. And if you haven't been here, we invite you to come and spend lots of money.
07:31.702 Brandon Burton
That's right. So I spent some time a couple of years in South Carolina, but I never made it up to the Asheville area, but it sounds beautiful. Well you
07:40.642 Kit Cramer
You just missed out, Brandon. That's all there is to it. You missed out.
07:44.15 Brandon Burton
That's right. so as we begin this what is the fourth interview of this this series that we're doing of of Chamber of the Year finalists, can you share with us just kind of what is what are you doing at your chamber that's that's great and that's kind of grabbing the attention to to make you guys a finalist for Chamber of the Year?
08:09.464 Kit Cramer
Well, I I think there are two things that are probably pretty distinctive about about our place. as many chambers have gone through either mergers or separations of of organizations, we previously had the Convention and Visitors Bureau, our Economic Development Unit, and the Chamber all as part of one organization. we helped the tourism development authority get an additional two cents added to the occupancy tax a couple of years ago. And as a result, their their budget just blew up. They're this year they will be they will have a budget of $25 million. So it made sense to separate the organizations because we had previously been an organization of five million. And so 25 million, 5 million, there's a big difference there. Yeah. It but but that led to the problems of when a when When you have to have those kind those kinds of separations occur, we have a gorgeous building that was built to house this three unit organization. And it was unfortunately built at the height of the economy, right before the Great Recession occurred. And we were left with a a lot of shared expense, over $300,000 in shared expense and a huge mortgage on this. This building. I was paying $22,000 a month in mortgage expense. So one of the things we did was we asked our friends at the Convention and Visitors Bureau to please move out so that we could consolidate our space. And then we sold a portion of the building to, we'd already sold the third floor of our building to Lenore Ryan University. And they have a graduate degree program in the evenings, which was really complimentary to our use of the building because it didn't conflict with our visitor center. I mean, we see over 200,000 people coming through our doors a year through our visitor center. So having having opposite hours was really helpful. Well, when we realized that we were gonna be separating from the Convention and Visitors Bureau and the the 30% of shared expense and it was
10:29.512 Kit Cramer
It caused us to really have to rethink the organization and and to get our financial house in order. So the first thing we did was think through what that would look like and we realized that our our our neighbors, Lenore Ryan, were still looking for more space and there was no one to whom that space would be more valuable than people who were already in the building. So we ended up selling. Another portion of the building and consolidating the chamber to the first floor. We have a very large visitor center and gift shop, as well as our office suite of offices and warehouse space. So we're still in great shape. But that allowed us to do to take dollars that I mean we went from a $22,000 mortgage per month to $5,000 itself. Much more manageable.
11:22.774 Brandon Burton
Much more manageable.
11:26.37 Kit Cramer
But it but more importantly, it also allowed us to rethink our entire organization. So we went through an assessment of, we took a look at our vision, mission, core values, and our unique value proposition as well, and did a perception study to get a better understanding of how we were perceived in the community so that we could do a better job of communicating ourselves to the community and to our members. And All of that was a super healthy way of emerging from from that issue. So that's one reason. The way we handled it and the way we've emerged has been super positive. And that that's perhaps one of the reasons we're we're finalists for Chamber of the Year. And we also have done some unique programming. One of the things we've done, you know, we've you if you think about ACCE's Horizon Initiative and its discussion of the changing demographics in our country and how people, the population shift that has has occurred, more people are moving to urban areas. And as a result, rural areas are really taking it on the chin. And yet for our MSA that we've got some very rural neighbors who upon whom we depend for customers, for workforce primarily. And it's important to us that they do well. as well. So one of the projects we have is a partnership with the Haywood Chamber of Commerce. I mean my hat's off to Haywood for coming to us for for for consultation. We had when I started at the chamber here about nine years ago, I was reaching out to all the chambers around us, particularly those in the MSA, but even beyond that. And we began to collaborate very slowly because mountain folks are Different from other people. There are long held grudges amongst communities. It's unbelievable. but we began to collaborate on public policy issues, around infrastructure. We began to even work together on providing member services, whether it's a regional business expo or career expos, things that that us having a much larger staff, we've got a staff of 25 now.
13:52.65 Kit Cramer
And most of the most of our neighbors, you know, have two, three, four max folks. So it it by by banding together and collaborating, we were able to do a lot more. But the Haywood Chamber reached out to us when they were initially approached by their their county commission asking for them to take over economic development in their community. And they sought a lot of advice and we offered it freely because they're our friends. We wanted them to do well. Well, a couple of years later, the county commission came back to the Haywood Chamber and said, now we want it to be more effective. And not only do we have a good relationship with their staff, we have we have members in common who really don't care about those geographic lines. And the suggestion was made to have a discussion with us. To talk about what we how what we could potentially do together. And we presented them with a proposal to do their business recruitment. And after a whole lot of work, they accepted. And it has provided it's a great win-win solution to the urban-rural divide. They're able to capitalize on on the brand of Asheville, which has been invested in for multiple years with lots and lots of money that they'll never be able to replicate. And they're also able to build on our investments in economic development that have been invested in for years. And again, we have an infrastructure in place that they just aren't going to be able to replicate. They don't there's not enough money or time for them to be able to do that. So we presented a synopsis of that particular program and what it has meant to Haywood and that seems to have resonated because we ended up on the on the finalist list.
15:50.316 Brandon Burton
That's right. So that partnership, does that play into it all or complement the forty percent of the workforce that's coming in from outside the county? Is that related at all or do you see correlation? Yeah.
16:04.61 Kit Cramer
Well, absolutely, because you know, we we need them to do well. It for every worker you have a you have a spouse who also needs a job more often than not. And if if Haywood needs to grow because we're also we're land strapped and in terms of western North Carolina, both in fact both counties are, both Bunkham and Haywood are, because we've got beautiful mountains, which is part of the attraction of living here. But it means You've got restrictions on the number of sites you have, and you've also got competition for what's going to be be built on those sites. So it w it's a win-win from that perspective. If you have a a a client who has a desire to be in Haywood County, it's unlikely that they'll want to be in Charlotte. I mean in Asheville. And so there is a there's there are distinctions between both communities. But when We're visiting with site selectors. It is easy for us to add visits with those site selectors who specialize in rural development when we're also visiting with their colleagues in urban development. And it's easy for us to well and I say easy, and easy is a relative term. but it's easier for us to provide templates to the Haywood Chamber to be able to. activate their their volunteer base in getting people engaged in providing the research necessary for site selectors and those interested in relocation and a in a really marketable form and to add it to our portfolio of properties and sites. And for us to and the and their partnership with us and the dollars they provided through that partnership. allow us to do additional site visits that we wouldn't have been able to do otherwise. For for us to go to to add New Orleans and visits with site selectors there, in addition to the ones that we're already doing in Chicago and California. And so it's just it's a win-win relationship.
18:20.504 Brandon Burton
So I love that that you it both, you know, you and this other chamber were able to to see that as a win win relationship rather than a competition or, you know, you're gonna outdo us or any of that.
18:35.032 Kit Cramer
Think if you talk to my economic development folks, at first they were kind of like, What? We're gonna do but once we talked it through, I mean, they're big believers in regionalism also. They just had to get past how we were gonna service it. And and their initial response was that they thought they'd have to add additional staff. And I said, No, I think you can use that. They you've still got an increment of
18:40.43 Brandon Burton
What?
19:02.878 Kit Cramer
of ability to do things that and it it's using efficiencies, creating efficiencies to be able to do the things we're already doing, but add them in. And it was it was their volunteers who were populating the the fact sheets and the research pieces that were necessary for our developers to go out and represent them well. But when we have a site visit, they're the ones who have to activate their volunteer base also and their elected officials. So they are super engaged in the process, but we're bringing a level of expertise that they previously didn't have. So it's it's been it and and that money, I mean, a hundred thousand dollars on a one point one million dollar budget is a significant chunk of change. And it's allowed us to do more that helps both both counties and the region as a whole. So it's been it's been great. And not only that, we've had political growth through it. I mean we're a community that is very, we're a blue, our city center is a blue spot in a sea of red, including our county. And we have no Republicans, for example, who represent Asheville. But the surrounding counties have lots of Republicans. And the North Carolina General Assembly is currently controlled by Republicans. So it's really nice to be able to go and and say we're not only representing Asheville and Buncombe County, but we're representing Haywood as well. And we do that in collaboration with their chamber and their volunteers.
20:48.344 Brandon Burton
That's great. Great, great partnership. That's perfect. Let's let's look at the the second program that you submitted to ACCE. Is a woman up program. Is that correct? Yeah.
21:02.254 Kit Cramer
Yes. So I you know, it's probably probably more common for for folks around the country to have chambers chambers to have implemented programs for for women business leaders, but we had not done it here. We had some very strong programming for women from a philanthropic perspective, but there was there was not a there was not a business businesswoman organization that was really getting the job done. And we We kind of we got lucky. I'd rather be lucky than smart in some cases. And in this case, we had put together a panel for our young professionals of Asheville around the the winners of our our female entrepreneur of the year from previous years. And when we did that, we had a standing room only crowd. And I mean crammed in. We literally couldn't fit anybody else in the room. And we thought, hmm. We think we've hit upon might be on to something. So we created the Woman Up program. And I happen to have a there's nothing that can substitute a a volunteer with passion. one of my incoming, my my second vice chair, who is gonna be who will eventually become chair of the chamber, is very passionate about women in business and small businesses.
22:02.402 Brandon Burton
Beyond something, yeah.
22:29.85 Kit Cramer
And she brought that to bear, has brought that to bear on our board in in a number of ways. And we talked about the need from a diversity perspective, while Asheville is a very diverse place in terms of lifestyle and views, and it it is not incredibly diverse in terms of color, race and race and ethnicity. It is more in terms of views and lifestyle. And so we have a small population, small African-American population, small, small Hispanic population. And but where we where we do need and we need work in that area, certainly, but we also need work in in terms of of women-owned businesses. About 32% of our counties are run by women, yet 51% of the population is made up of women. So we thought. That there might be an opportunity there. And it it resonated with people in such a big way. We started doing quarterly programming for with the target being women in business, but we also had some very smart men join us, a small group, but very smart men. And we would develop themes for the year. So we it was the first year we did. building your network and had a had the author of a book called the Stiletto Network come in and talk about how women have worked together to build networks just as men have done for many, many years. And then we proceeded to to bring in some seasoned professionals from throughout the bit the female business community to mentor to and table they worked as table facilitators first with with Groups of women and talked about how they had developed their own networks and basically provided a we worked on d developing a toolkit for women to use and it really resonated. And then we created a whole we previously had provided the entrepreneur of the year, woman entrepreneur of the year was presented at our annual meeting. We reconfigured our awards program, and not only do we have the
24:46.242 Kit Cramer
Woman Entrepreneur of the Year, but we've done we've done Woman Executive of the Year, Outstanding Woman, Nonprofit Leader, and the Rising Star Award now are all presented at a at a celebratory event in November. We have as many women show up for that as we do for the Chamber's annual meeting, which is you know six six seven hundred. And it's it's amazing. And we've we've brought in speakers like we had a one of the women who was one of the NASA computers of hidden figures fame. Yeah named Christine Darden came and spoke and we partnered that year with a with a nonprofit in town that brought all kinds of of kids from women specifically girls but also some boys from high schools throughout the county. To hear her speak. And it was just amazing that to see how inspired everybody was and how empowered they felt in the connections they were making. And not only that, it's been super lucrative. The first year we generated $52, almost $53,000 to support the program and netted over $20,000 for the Chambers Coffers. In the first year. The second year, we it sponsored l sponsors loved this. We generated $126,000 and and sponsorships and gross income from registrations, et cetera, and netted 71, almost 72,000 dollars for the chambers coffers at the end of the second year. Not too shabby. And it has really it's been very, very popular.
26:31.096 Brandon Burton
To sh.
26:39.416 Brandon Burton
So you sounds like you've got great speakers that come in for this this program and are there do you do like seminars, do you do workshops, ways to develop these skills and kind of send them out there, you know, give them the the tools and resources and go out there and and apply them. What does that look like?
27:02.178 Kit Cramer
Well the the format is generally it's been a breakfast format where a a long breakfast format where we'll come in, have networking and breakfast, and then a speaker will speak and it or a pa or a set of panelists will speak. And there'll be one meeting that looks that way. The next meeting will be more breakouts where you're actually applying what you learned in the first one. And then the next one will be focused on stories and it generally has another panel with the with the November event being a main speaker as well as all the awards that are presented. So each we've kind of got a we've got a format for each of four meetings that occurs during the year. And we've got a LinkedIn page where people can communicate. I mean, we've made it a That was part of the growing pains of doing this event when we talked about networking and establishing your network. We got responses from the from the first set of participants saying, well, great, we want the chamber to create a network for us. And we were like, No, you're missing the point. You have to genuinely connect. You have to work it and create your own network. We gave plenty of examples of how to do that. And
28:14.134 Brandon Burton
Yeah, to put in the work.
28:23.202 Kit Cramer
gave them the tools. But that feedback loop has been super important. And the group, we have a committee that is comprised of other entities that have women in business focuses in one way or another. They aren't doing the same thing we're doing, but they've got a dog in that fight. So they've all come together with us and we decided we would stack hands and share information about each other's programming. We've invited them to critique what we're doing and to be involved in choosing speakers and being involved in what that process looks like. Plus, we also have we directly act on what the participants tell us. At first, we were collecting information on index cards where they were writing things in, and then we did follow-up emails. Well, now we're using a system called menti.com, M-E-N-T-I, menti.com. Where we instantly collect information with everybody via smartphone and we show the results on screen. So we'll ask about their thoughts. Sometimes we'll use a word cloud to present the results. Sometimes it's just a simple chart that shows what people thought, but it gives us very direct feedback on the structure. And that committee takes that, those thoughts as the gospel. and y applies it to what we're gonna do the next time. So I think we've had very effective use of volunteers and the programming piece.
29:58.168 Brandon Burton
So that leads to I was I was gonna ask from the first year you did it to the second, what changes did you make? And it sounds like you got good feedback from these surveys and everything. are there
30:09.878 Kit Cramer
And we sold a pile of sponsorships to
30:12.088 Brandon Burton
That's right. I mean there I think for one thing you you get you build some momentum. People know more about it after the first year, but what other significant changes would you say there was from the first year to the second year to increase that revenue and to just improve the overall program?
30:30.328 Kit Cramer
Well, one of the things I think made a big difference was we, you know, we were already dealing with gender diversity by by the mere presence of it being woman up. But we then began to focus on trying to improve our our racial diversity. And we're very intentional about seeking out folks who could help us do that and be effective in doing that because our population is pretty small. So that improved. And you've saw that that was presented by way of providing scholarships or reduced reduced fees, particularly if it was for for entrepreneurs or for younger participants. So we we would provide reduced fees for participation. We also sought out leaders of color to to be speakers so that we could appeal to a broader audience. But we even had a a woman with a with a handicap in terms of or a different a difference in ability I guess I would say a woman who we had a a theme of overcoming obstacles and this young woman became a quadriplegic and she is an amazing inspirational story that we were able to tell but with the overarching theme of overcoming obstacles because I don't care who you are, you're gonna face obstacles of one type or another in building your career. So we so I think that was a major difference. And I think that embracing of the entire community made the made the program even more popular. So I I credit the success in the second year with that. But we also were fine-tuning at the same time we were fine-tuning our our total resource campaign. We've had in the last two years we've increased the output on the campaign by over $200,000. And so we were we're we had a campaign this year of eight hundred and sixty thousand. So two hundred thousand dollars is a lot of difference. That's right. Talking about that. And so our efficiency in gaining those sponsorships and advertising sales has has made a huge difference.
32:53.474 Kit Cramer
It's it's allowed the staff to kind of refocus on fulfillment of our our promises through tier dues instead of working on sales all the time. We're we're more efficient this way.
33:08.204 Brandon Burton
This program, the Woman Up program, sounds amazing. Is there any links on your website that talk more about the program that maybe we can put in the show notes for this episode for listeners to look at closer?
33:20.13 Kit Cramer
Yes, if you go to Ashwellchamber.org slash woman up, you'll find information about the programming. And I believe also for those who are members of ACCE, that they're going to put they asked for permission to share our application for chamber of the year, which included a bunch of links to all kinds of material, everything from budgetary information to to promotional information, articles about the success of the program, it's all gonna be linked there as well. So that might be another way, n another venue for people to look through to see what we've done.
34:01.09 Brandon Burton
Yeah, that's great. So I know we need to start wrapping things up here, but I wanted to ask, based on what we've talked about today and and what you have going on there at the Greater Ash or at the Asheville area chamber, what is one action item or piece of advice that you can give to listeners to help step up their game at their chamber?
34:23.426 Kit Cramer
Gosh, I mean, for us, I I'll tell you one of the processes we went through in the last year also, last year and a half actually, is is creating tier dos. And it's not so much the tier dos model itself, it's the exploration, I think, that has been so powerful. Really understanding the motivations of our members. I mean, we've we've gone so far as to develop personas. For the different types of members we have. And so that we have a shorthand to talk about those different types of members and what their motivations might be. Because we wanted everybody, because we do economic development as well as the chamber, it's important to us that everybody be able to speak to how people can plug in and to break down silos between between the different areas of work. And that process of really taking a look at what your member understanding what your members' motivations are and how you can and then looking at your programming and figuring out what most appeals to different the different branches of your membership was I I think it's it's changed the way we think about the work we do. And it also allowed us to customize programming and in a way that that has been very, very impactful. So that's what I would recommend that they do that everyone do is take a look at their programming with that understanding member motivation.
35:56.576 Brandon Burton
I like that. That evaluation is seeing what all the services are that your chamber has to offer and how they can align with the needs of your members. Very, very good advice. so I asked this next question to everybody that I have on the show, but as we look to the future, how do you view chambers of commerce and their purpose?
36:19.406 Kit Cramer
I think chambers are more important than ever. I know in our case, with it with the amount of political polarization in this country, and I know we feel it at every level of government, and we feel it at you know the fragmentation of our society. I think chambers can play the essential role of Pragmatism and finding a way forward, bringing people together to find a way forward, because we all have to live in and I know particularly in our case, where we've got this very liberal city center and a more conservative county and a way more conservative section of the state, that we have to we're constantly threading the needle. It's our job to find the way forward and to bring sides together and find common purpose to move the whole community forward. And we're advocates for business, but our mission is building community through business. So it's not business at all costs. We want a beautiful place to live, a comfortable place to live live, and we want everybody to be able to achieve the lifestyle that they want and deserve. And we all have to work together. So we we have to be collaborative. So I think chambers can play that role in a community. And finding a way to do that is what we we're Gonna continually be working.
37:45.334 Brandon Burton
That's great. so Kit, I just really appreciate you spending some time with us today here on Chamber Chat Podcast and sharing your insights in these programs that you have going there at the Asheville area chamber. and thank you to everybody for listening as well. The show notes for this episode can be found at Chamberchatpodcast.com slash episode 27. And Kit, if listeners had questions about what you presented or these programs that we talked about today, how can they get in contact with you to explore these a little bit more?
38:23.26 Kit Cramer
my email address is K Kramer, K-C-R-A-M-E-R at ashevillechamber.org. And I'd welcome I love email. Please don't call me. Yes, I'm I'm not a millennial, but I'm like a millennial. Please don't call me. Email.
38:35.625 Brandon Burton
Yeah.
38:41.57 Brandon Burton
That's right. Email works on your schedule, so
38:44.342 Kit Cramer
It does. It does.
38:46.252 Brandon Burton
It I'll I'll put that in the show notes and with the big message do not call. No, I'm just kidding. Well But seriously thank
38:56.14 Kit Cramer
Go ahead. Email me the schedule a time for a call.
38:58.85 Brandon Burton
That's right. That's right. Email me for an appointment. Yeah. Well, thanks again. I appreciate it. I think you delivered a lot of value for the listeners today and I hope everybody gets a lot out of this episode.
39:01.622 Kit Cramer
That's That's right.
39:11.431 Kit Cramer
Thanks, Brandon.
39:16.12 Brandon Burton
Thank you for listening to this episode today. I hope that you're finding value as you listen to Chamber Chat Podcast. If you are enjoying the show, I would encourage you to tell your colleagues that are in the chamber industry. Also, please hop onto iTunes and leave us a five-star rating and review to help others find this show. Thanks again, and I look forward to chatting with you again next week.