Bring Additional Economic Development to Your Community with Maree Forbes Gaughan

This transcript has been lightly edited for readability and to correct obvious transcription errors while preserving the meaning of the original conversation.

Brandon Burton (00:00)
Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I'm your host, Brandon Burton, and here on the podcast, I introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your chamber members and your community.

Today's guest is Dr. Maree Forbes Gaughan, CEO of Community Economic Partners and National Travel Center, nationally recognized organizations dedicated to helping small cities, towns, and rural communities thrive.

With a multidisciplinary background spanning architecture, historic preservation, economic development, tourism, strategic planning, placemaking, and community engagement, Maree brings an unusually broad perspective to community development. Her career began in architecture, followed by work with the World Bank in Washington, D.C., where she gained firsthand experience in economic development. She later expanded her expertise into tourism and destination development.

Today, she leads projects across the country that help communities strengthen their economies, enhance their sense of place, and build sustainable futures around the assets that make them unique. We're happy to welcome Maree here on the podcast.

Maree, I'd love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the Chamber Champions who are out there listening and, if you would, share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better.

Maree Forbes Gaughan (01:25)
All right, Brandon. Thank you. I'm Maree Forbes Gaughan, CEO, as you said, of Community Economic Partners, which emerged out of National Travel Center when we decided that what we were doing was really economic development.

Something interesting to share: I have a Bachelor of Fine Arts in fine art—painting, drawing, and every field in the arts. At the University of Wisconsin, they let us take architecture courses as part of that. That's how all of this came about. A doctorate in planning seemed to be a natural extension of architecture, townscaping, placemaking, and all of those things. It has been an interesting ride.

Brandon Burton (02:20)
When you think about art, design, and architecture, it all makes perfect sense in aligning with economic development. You have to think things through in order and determine what makes sense in the proper steps. That makes a lot of sense to me.

Tell us a little about your organizations, Community Economic Partners and National Travel Center, to give us an idea of the type of work you're involved with and what those organizations are all about.

Maree Forbes Gaughan (02:53)
I never imagined that one could run a remote organization. I always had an office until about 12 years ago. A stellar team has come together. There are 14 of us scattered all around the country, and that gives us access to best practices and an interesting understanding of a variety of areas.

National Travel Center has been in business for 14 years. When it came together with a larger group of people, we were approached by a couple of people in economic development who said, "That's really what you're doing." I canvassed all the people we were working with, and they all said, "Yes, that's precisely what we do as well."

We have a stellar team of tourism professionals and some highly educated and experienced economic development people. We have somebody in historic preservation and somebody in community livability, which is really important for every small community. We specialize in working with small cities, small towns, and rural communities.

A bunch of us grew up on farms, and you learn to be extremely practical. We don't just do strategies where you identify four pillars and create a long list of to-dos, because that doesn't get anybody anywhere. We create a plan that's implementable. Start from where you are now, build on your assets, and move forward over three or five years. You'll end up accomplishing your goals. Communities really appreciate that.

Brandon Burton (04:44)
I know a lot of organizations have the four pillars, as you alluded to, but I love action. I love a plan that you can put into place so you can start seeing movement in a positive direction. It's good to have those foundations to reference, but you have to have something to help you move forward. I love that you do that.

Maree Forbes Gaughan (05:05)
We do the strategies. Obviously, you have to know the starting point. Then we create what we call an implementation action plan, where we illustrate what you need to accomplish monthly, quarterly, and annually to reach your goals within the time period you've established. That's so important because then you can make real progress.

Brandon Burton (05:33)
Absolutely. Today, we're going to talk about things those listening can do to help bring additional economic development into their communities. I'm excited to dive into this topic and learn more about your perspective as soon as we get back from this quick break.

All right, Maree, we're back. As I mentioned before the break, today we're diving into economic development and helping to boost economic development in communities across the country. I'm not sure where you would like to start. I know you have your work laid out and you're deep in the weeds, so to speak, in economic development, but what are some of the biggest factors that can help drive economic development?

Maree Forbes Gaughan (06:20)
Chambers are the perfect venue for economic development. Their perspective of helping small businesses in their areas is foundational to economic development. We no longer have large-company saviors that come in—and if they do, they can leave. Supporting the small businesses in the community—the people who are involved in the community, invested in it, and moved there because they wanted to live there—is absolutely critical.

Brandon, we did a study of 700 organizations across the country: economic development departments, chambers, tourism offices, Main Street organizations, and some municipalities. After looking at 1,675 individual positions in those organizations—yes, it was extensive, but it gave us great information—we discovered that many chambers have taken on responsibility for delivering economic development in their communities and expanding it.

There are fewer industrial authorities at this point, and I think the entire field of economic development is waking up to the fact that you really have to start in your own community. The other thing is that the chamber is often the tourism office, which also makes sense. The same small businesses the chamber supports are also delivering the tourism experience. It's all tied together, and tourism is foundational.

Nobody moves or relocates a business without first visiting to see what it will be like to live there. So many communities don't understand that this is really the foundation of economic development. With the tourism office in the chamber, they know the experiences being offered and the places to send visitors. It all makes a lot of sense.

Brandon Burton (08:39)
It's interesting when you look at the history of many chambers across the country. A lot of them developed the tourism function or tourism arm in their communities, and some of them created the economic development arm. Then those efforts may have branched off. Economic development may have gone to the city or become its own organization, and tourism may have gone its own way.

Now you're seeing them start to come back together and do much more collaboration. I applaud those organizations that are coming together because there are a lot of shared resources and efforts going in different directions. You can work with much more synergy and help move things forward in your community by working together as one whole.

Maree Forbes Gaughan (09:27)
We think they should all be combined because everybody's budgets are stretched. Rather than competing for funding with tourism, economic development, or anyone else, blend them all together and you get much more synergy. You also get better local recognition because you've expanded the purview of what you're doing and can make a much greater impact.

Brandon Burton (09:54)
I know a few people listening will think, "We don't have the economic development contract in our community. Maybe this episode doesn't apply to us." I want to argue that every chamber should be involved with economic development, whether formally or informally.

What would your approach be? What could chambers do, even if they don't have the official responsibility or contract for economic development? How should they still be involved?

Maree Forbes Gaughan (10:25)
They already are. The small businesses that belong to chambers and the community businesses they support are the foundation of local economic development. They're already in that business, whether they look at it that way or not.

We've passed the point where economic development entities are only the people who run after external businesses, because it has been so unsuccessful. Chambers have the perfect starting place because they can tell officials, "We are already in the economic development business and helping your community thrive."

Express that intent. Show people that you're already doing this and are responsible for helping small businesses thrive. Start educational opportunities for those small businesses and look at other ways you can help them. Find grants for those businesses and do the things that help them thrive. Then tell everybody about it. Chambers are already in that position. It's a natural gateway into expanding their role.

Brandon Burton (11:41)
I think that during the pandemic, the light came on for a lot of chambers that they are involved with this. They helped pursue grants, provided education, kept business doors open, and supported businesses in their communities. That is economic development.

I love what you said about educational programs and things of that nature to help build the local economy. What are some other strategies or ideas that work well in communities to build more localized economic development?

Maree Forbes Gaughan (12:22)
I want to add to what you said about COVID. When tourism was crashing, it was amazing how many tourism departments decided to become involved with other organizations in their communities, basically to survive. It was really interesting to watch. Those that finally got together with other providers were the ones that survived.

As for other strategies, we are asked some interesting questions. One thing you can do is get a list of every business in your area. We have an example of a chamber that had 140 members and was pretty happy about that. We completed a comprehensive inventory of businesses and found 874.

We pointed out that there might be half a million dollars or more in memberships sitting on the table. We also found all the email addresses we could so that the chamber could literally put itself in front of every community business. The chamber also wasn't doing a good job of promoting itself.

We have a person on our staff called our chief success officer who can write a good line. She's a former chamber director who was called in when the largest manufacturer left town and half the adults were left without jobs, so she learned to communicate quickly. She asked the chamber, "Tell me what you've achieved over the past year," and they did.

Then she said, "Now, this is how you say it," and made a graphic that's now being posted everywhere to tell those 800-plus businesses what the chamber has actually been doing. Part of the strategy is making everyone aware of what's available and what has been accomplished.

The other thing is to set high goals and determine how you can reach those goals by going beyond normal chamber functions. Make an annual visit to the county commissioners and present the economic value of what you're doing. They love the numbers because county commissioners always want to bring more prosperity to their region or county. Do the same with the city council. Clarify and compile the economic value of the chamber's programs, and make an annual visit to those organizations so they can see what's being accomplished.

Brandon Burton (15:35)
In too many communities, the chamber is the best-kept secret. Chambers need to get out there, tell their own story better, toot their own horn, and show what they're doing to drive impact. That helps attract more membership.

You gave the example of a chamber with about 140 members and more than 800 businesses in the community. Beyond the membership fees they're missing, they're also missing all the connections and leverage that come from getting those people to the table. What challenges are businesses encountering? What solutions have they found? How can they help other businesses succeed? There's so much power in bringing them all into the organization that you do a big disservice when you leave them out there.

Maree Forbes Gaughan (16:24)
For a different chamber, we're interviewing large businesses to find out what workforce development needs they have. Then we're matching those needs with a list of available programs.

There's grant funding for workforce development all over the country. It's something supported by virtually every municipality. Chambers don't have to incur the expense of providing that training because grants are available. Then you begin to strengthen the entire business community, and businesses are able to expand. Workforce is one of today's struggles for all communities.

Brandon Burton (17:16)
I don't know that any one community has figured out the answer to workforce, but what seems to work well is telling the story of the community. Going back to placemaking, what makes your community desirable to live in? What opportunities are available to advance in a career, raise a family, and do all these other things? It goes back to telling the story of your community and having examples.

I love how you're interviewing major employers, identifying opportunities, and helping craft a better story.

Maree Forbes Gaughan (17:57)
It starts with asking people what they need. There are regional organizations, such as councils of governments, that will help chambers implement and execute those programs. That's what they're there for. Virtually every area in the United States has one because they act as a coordinating function.

Tap all the resources you can find, make the connections, have the conversations, and do what needs to be done by pulling everybody together into a coherent conversation. Be the catalyst that helps people start talking to one another.

Brandon Burton (18:49)
Be that catalyst and convener that's bringing everyone together in the room and giving everybody who should be there a place at the table. I totally agree.

Maree Forbes Gaughan (18:58)
Right. Promote tourism, have a plan, and make that a foundational aspect.

Brandon Burton (19:11)
If a chamber's tourism department is a separate entity, what could a plan look like for the chamber to still have a tourism plan in coordination with that separate tourism department?

Maree Forbes Gaughan (19:32)
The chamber can help integrate the businesses that are part of tourism experiences because those are exactly the businesses that are their members. About 99.9 percent of businesses in the tourism industry are small businesses. The big corporations you hear about are not the whole tourism industry. It's the people on the ground.

Helping integrate the businesses chambers already know into visitor experiences helps tourism, helps the tourism bureau, and strengthens the connection among everyone. The more you communicate, the more you understand.

The chamber can offer to do that for the tourism industry. The tourism industry has decided it is mostly going to focus on external marketing, which we disagree with because tourism affects the lives of residents and businesses. You need to understand what it's doing to them.

In spite of that, I think tourism departments would welcome the chamber serving as the place where businesses and experience suppliers come together and have a conversation. Then the tourism department can do its more clinical, hands-off external marketing.

Brandon Burton (21:07)
That may be a trap some tourism departments fall into when they receive HOT funds that need to be spent to draw people in from outside. It creates blind spots around what they can do within the community to make it attractive—to make it a place where people want to spend their time and money, stay in hotels, and do all those things. Focusing on the community is a great point.

Maree Forbes Gaughan (21:34)
When I taught at Temple, the name of my course was Destination Management and Marketing. Management is getting involved in the community and managing the experiences and suppliers. Many students had never looked at that perspective. A chamber can easily fulfill that function.

Brandon Burton (22:00)
What would you say to people who have a strained relationship with their tourism department or economic development organization and work very much in silos? I know that's not ideal, and I think everyone listening knows that's not ideal. What advice would you give to help break down those silos and build those relationships?

Maree Forbes Gaughan (22:26)
Have a conversation and offer how you can help. Offer to strengthen their efforts by focusing on what's in it for them. Sit down and ask, "What do you need? What kind of help do you need?"

Every tourism department needs help. None of them ever has enough money to do everything it wants or needs to do. The same is true of economic development. If they're a pure industrial authority looking for external manufacturing, they may be difficult to have a conversation with because they may not think the small businesses in town mean anything. If they're not that type of organization, start those conversations and find out what they need.

Most of them have much larger budgets, but they don't have time. There are many ways to help. Sit down, have a conversation, and ask how you can help. The ideas will start flowing when the people in those silos understand that there is an offer of assistance.

Just start talking to one another. We had a really interesting final presentation a little while back, and the major question from that chamber was, "How do we get in touch with our constituents?" We said, "Good Lord, send them an email twice a month and start talking to them. Convene them in the small towns where they live in groups." It struck us as unusual that this was the major question people were asking.

Brandon Burton (24:18)
I had to ask that question because, in communities where relationships are strained, it is a real issue. It needs to be addressed, and people need support. More often than not, I also see communities that have broken down the silos and work so well with other organizations that they might as well be on each other's payroll because they work so closely together.

Maree Forbes Gaughan (24:42)
Right. Chamber people are usually there longer. Tourism directors and staff turn over every few years, so you have a fresh start with a new person who doesn't have the background. The same thing happens in economic development. They're often looking for the next position up, while chamber people are residents of the town. There's always an opportunity to speak to new people.

Brandon Burton (25:07)
That's a good point. Maree, as we start to wrap things up, I always like to ask guests what tip or action item they would share with listeners who want to take their organizations to the next level.

Maree Forbes Gaughan (25:28)
Find all the people in your community. Find every single business and all the partner organizations. Start a major communication effort so your work is well publicized.

Make sure your commissioners, council members, municipal officials, and everybody else know what you're doing so they recognize and respect the functions you're already performing. That's going to start taking you to the next level because conversations will begin. Once officials recognize that you're a valuable part of the community and are helping with economic prosperity, they're going to respond better.

Brandon Burton (26:20)
Absolutely. The other question I ask everybody is about the future of chambers of commerce. How do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Maree Forbes Gaughan (26:33)
They're changing. We realized from the research that there's much less siloing, and chambers are putting in programs that help their specific communities. That makes a major difference.

There's no longer a one-size-fits-all definition of what a chamber does. Whether they have workforce development, economic development, tourism development, or something else, they're filling the gaps. They're becoming more wide-ranging and helpful to the community because they are filling the gaps no one else is addressing.

I think that's the trend, and it bodes well for chambers because they can recognize what's missing.

Brandon Burton (27:24)
Chambers are often the ones filling the holes in the community. When nobody else does something, the chamber steps in and does it. Unfortunately, that also comes with people in the community saying, "The chamber should do it," and volunteering them for things they may not need to be involved with. Smart chamber leaders can decipher what they should and shouldn't get involved with.

Maree Forbes Gaughan (27:45)
Precisely. Do the strategic things that help the most businesses, people, and residents. Focus on quality of life.

Brandon Burton (27:55)
Absolutely. Maree, I'd like to give you an opportunity to share contact information for listeners who may want to connect with you, learn more about your offerings, and see what you can do to help build economic development in their communities. What's the best way to reach you?

Maree Forbes Gaughan (28:13)
You can email me, but it's a long email address.

Brandon Burton (28:19)
We'll put it in the show notes, too.

Maree Forbes Gaughan (28:22)
The phone number is 267-897-5277. My cell phone is always on. I answer all the calls because I enjoy talking to people. I often get calls from people I don't know who need help, so I never shut off the phone calls.

The email is maree.forbesgaughan@communityeconomicpartners.org.

Brandon Burton (28:58)
That's perfect.

Maree Forbes Gaughan (28:59)
We're an organization with a mission, so we can tailor our fees for different situations. We don't have shareholders, so we don't have to use hourly rates and all those other things. It's much more helpful.

Brandon Burton (29:16)
That's great insight. Maree, it has been great having you on the show. I appreciate you setting aside time and sharing your experience and findings from the study you've done. This has been a great conversation, and I appreciate you sharing it with us.

Maree Forbes Gaughan (29:34)
We're writing a book based on that study called Mind Shift.

Brandon Burton (29:39)
Very good. We'll keep our eyes and ears open for it when it comes out. Do you have a target date?

Maree Forbes Gaughan (29:45)
It was supposed to be this fall, but projects have overtaken us. I would suspect it will be after the new Congress gets in place and we can get the lay of the land and understand what's going to happen. Thank you so much for having me. I thoroughly enjoyed it.

Brandon Burton (30:04)
Thank you.