Merging Organizations with Megan Lucas

This transcript has been lightly edited for readability and to correct obvious transcription errors while preserving the meaning of the original conversation.

Episode 92 — Merging Organizations with Megan Lucas
Clean Speaker-Labeled Transcript
Guest: Megan Lucas
Automated QA: Passed

00:00.842 Brandon Burton
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community. And now your host
00:17.676 Brandon Burton
Launch his own podcast. He's my dad, Brandon Burton. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I am your host, Brandon Burton, and it is my goal to introduce you to people and ideas so you can better serve your chamber members and your community. And as my son Brody just mentioned in this introduction, I I did just recently help him get started with his own podcast, which is pretty cool. He's 14 years old, and as we were kind of locked in with the quarantine and everything through this COVID pandemic. He he has a real interest in history and and he loves podcasts too. He listens to a lot of history podcasts. And he came to me and said, you know, Dad, I I think I want to do a a podcast on history, but it would be alternate history, where he kind of writes his own stories and everything and how how history may have played out if if something went different. So It it was fun getting him started with that. But if anybody is interested and wants to check it out, it's called Imagine If by Brody Burton. So that it's on all the the podcast platforms. But along those lines, I I am starting to to help chambers who would like to start their own podcast as well. So if that's you, if you would like to check it out, you can go to my website, Chamberchatpodcast.com, and right on the homepage there's a link for my chamber podcasting guide. So it's a free guide that tells you about the software and the microphones and you know everything you need to get started with your own chamber podcast. But glad to have you all here with me today for episode 92 of Chamber Chat Podcast. And in this episode we're going to talk a little bit about the options of merging organizations. And as we are kind of working our way through this this COVID pandemic and seeing some of the the changes that are going on throughout the the business world, business climate. For some chambers it's it's been a time to kind of evaluate their resources and the offerings that they have for their membership. And for some organizations, this is a a good time
02:36.472 Brandon Burton
To look at a possible merger with either another chamber or another organization altogether. So for this episode, I have Megan Lucas with us. And Megan is a seasoned community and economic development professional. Her career in the chamber industry spans more than 20 years and includes states, includes work in the states of Tennessee, Nebraska, and Virginia. Megan currently is a CEO and Chief Economic Development Officer at the Lynchburg Regional Business Alliance in Virginia, the region's Chamber of Commerce and Economic Development Leader. She is charged with leading the work of the Alliance, focusing on regional job creation and capital investment. She serves as an entrepreneurial business and economic development thought leader in the region and provides innovative forward-thinking leadership for the organization and the alliance board. Megan is the immediate past chair of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce Foundation's Institute for Organization Management Board of Trustees. She's been a U.S. Chamber Institute instructor for nine years, teaching volunteer management, marketing strategies, and economic development. Megan is one of 15 professionals internationally that is dual certified as an economic development developer and a certified chamber executive. Megan is the recipient of Consultant Connect's Top 50 Economic Developers in the Country, member of the U.S. Chamber Distinguished Committee of 100, the top 100 Chamber CEOs in the country, and a member of the ACCE Board of Directors. Megan is the recipient of the Omaha Public Power District Community Leadership Award, Bellevue, Nebraska Person of the Year 2011 Award, Women of Distinction Award, and 40 Under 40 Awards. Megan is born and raised on a Black Angus cattle ranch in central Missouri. She received her Bachelor of Arts from Culver-Stockton College in Canton, Missouri, and Master of Science from University of Memphis, Memphis, Tennessee. Megan moved to Virginia in March of 2012 with her husband Tory Lucas, who's a professor of law at Liberty University. Megan believes that vision, integrity, and passion are the keys to success.
04:59.84 Brandon Burton
Excited to get into this discussion of merging organizations with Megan as soon as we get back from hearing from our sponsor. Every chamber is looking for new ways to increase their non-dues revenue. Has your chamber found a good affinity program? I have a great affinity program to offer your chamber that will continue to increase in revenue year after year. I want to introduce you to Swipe It for all of your credit card processing needs. Swipe It has a unique affinity program that one lowers your credit card processing fees at the chamber, two helps your chamber members be more profitable, and three provides recurring nondues revenue to your chamber. To learn more, please visit chamberchatpodcast.com slash CC for credit card. Again, Chamberchatpodcast dot com slash C C and get swiping with Swipe It. All right, Megan, and we are back. Thank you for joining us today. If you would please take a moment to say hello to the chamber champions that are out there listening and share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better.
06:12.226 Megan Lucas
Well, hello. Thank you so much. I am a listener of Chamber Chat, and I am just super excited to be invited to chat with you today. Brandon, thank you so much. well, my my husband Tory Lucas and I moved here from Nebraska several years ago. We love Virginia. I certainly passionate about what I do, and you want to know something unique about me. Well, Most people who know me know I love to golf, so I'm an avid golfer, but I also really love to crochet. And so that's kind of a interesting thing about me that not everybody knows.
06:51.158 Brandon Burton
Yeah. That's not necessarily a hobby that you see a lot of people doing anymore, but occasionally you'll see people do it and that some great art that comes out of crocheting.
07:01.378 Megan Lucas
I'm not the best at it. I pretty much stick to scarves. but it it helps keep my hands busy dur especially during the winter when, you know, we're not out hiking or playing golf or doing other things. And so I do enjoy it. It's it's a little bit a little bit of peace for me.
07:16.504 Brandon Burton
That's right. See, and the great thing about that is you can listen to a podcast while you do it. So that's just that's awesome. Well, share with us a little bit about your organization so we can all have a little more perspective as to where you're coming from, kind of size, location, staff, budget, and and responsibilities of of your organization.
07:37.57 Megan Lucas
Well, I am fortunate to be the CEO and chief economic developer of the Lynchburg Regional Business Alliance in Lynchburg, Virginia. And we have about 800 members. Our budget is around one point five million dollars. We do both we are the regional chamber and regional economic development organization. The alliance has a staff of ten. And we do, you know, we do everything that most of the other organizations do from startup to succession planning to economic development, professional development and advocacy, leadership, and really doing everything we can to support our business business members to help them grow and succeed.
08:22.582 Brandon Burton
That is awesome. And that that really does help to kind of give us an idea of of what you have to share with us today. And as I mentioned at the beginning, our topic for discussion today will be around merging organizations. So I know right now, as I mentioned, the a lot of chambers are kind of looking at the their options as as far as if a ma a merger makes sense, whether it be with a a neighboring chamber or maybe another organization in their area. such as the econom economic development organization. I know you're kind of I guess about four years into a I I guess we could still call it a recent merger. I mean four years relative speaking is is pretty new. so what would be some of your thoughts as these chambers that are looking at these at their options with possible mergers, being that you've been through one. What are some things that they need to kind of consider and look at as they weigh their options?
09:27.67 Megan Lucas
That's a great question. you know, our merger happened as a result of some shifts with two strong regional organizations, the Lynchburg Regional Chamber of Commerce and the Regional Economic Development Group at the time was called Region 2000 Economic Development Group, partnership. And those two organizations were going through some paradigm shifts. And and when that occurred, the Lynchburg Regional Chamber was doing a strategic planning session. And I had just moved moved to Virginia from Nebraska and was still active was on the board of the US Chamber, and I had been invited to the Lynchburg Regional Chamber's strategic planning session. And in that strategic planning session, the The board started talking about getting involved in economic development. And at that time I was I was doing economic development for a town called Altavista, Virginia. And I communicated to that group that the, you know, unfortunately for us, our region already had really good economic developers. And so maybe that, you know, that's an interesting, interesting talking point, but they should really step back and see what they have in the region. And at that point, the board asked, is there a better way? Are there other models? And I've come from a model where chambers typically do economic development. So the short story is was able to brief them on that and that there are other models. And that's really where the discussion began. You know, one of the things, Brandon, that we see when when we're talking about mergers, and let's think the pre COVID for for the time being, is a lot of times chambers will Will be struggling for whatever reason and struggling for relevancy in their community. And they'll they'll decide that to be more relevant, they need to get engaged in and economic more engaged in economic development. And in our case, we have strong economic we had strong economic developers in the region. We can continue to have strong economic developers in the region. So it didn't make sense to really say, as a chamber, draw the line in the sand and and and create their own economic development program of work.
11:36.844 Megan Lucas
When when they had it already existing. And it really just became the perfect storm because at that time, two organizations were shifting, and it really was the right time to talk about what's the potential for doing something different. The status quo was no longer working, and the leadership, the the volunteer leadership was willing to open the door for a conversation. So I think when when chambers and organizations start talking about mergers, it really has to come from a place of of volunteer leadership. It can't be driven by paid staff.
12:13.442 Brandon Burton
So be driven by the volunteers. so how long did the process take? As you kind of evaluated the the option, kind of debated. I'm sure there was some some back and forth, the pros and cons, and kind of weighing things out. How long did that process take and what did that look like?
12:34.784 Megan Lucas
start to finish 18 months and what we ended up doing was we established we established an exploratory committee and that was really made up of of select members of each organization's executive board and then that executive board for the first I would say for the first three or four months that that exploratory committee kind of they kind of spun their wheels everybody had ideas on what a combined organization should look like. And and and they they really didn't have a they didn't have a strategy, didn't have a pass. So they'd get together and you'd have t six people bring in their own versions of org charts and six and four people bring in their own versions of what they think it should be and what it should and shouldn't do. So finally after about four months in, the co by the way, the the the the exploratory team, which eventually transitioned to the task force, They were co-chaired by the chair of the chamber board and the chair of the economic development board. So about after about the fourth month of spinning the wheels, one of those chairs said, you know, we have a really talented and experienced staff. You have they at the time they have me, Megan Lucas, who was running the EDO, certified economic developer, we had Christine Kennedy running the chamber, certified chamber exec. Let's let's Let's put it to them to come up with a strategy and a plan to help us move this discussion forward. And that's really what they needed to do. And so based on on that that one moment in time, they agreed that that was the smart thing to do. So what Christine and I did is we we put together a strategy that included interviewing chambers that had recently merged, as well as talking to some subject matter experts in the field. based on those interviews that we did, I think. get eight to ten organizational interviews. We put together a report. And that report and process back to the committee, which essentially said, based on, you know, here's the here is the the information we glean from these other organizations and the subject matter experts that that have gone through a merged process. Here's here's the lessons learned. And the and from that we recommended that we do a community visit.
14:56.818 Megan Lucas
and we recommended that we did it do a community visit to Commerce Lexington. At the time we were doing this, Commerce Lexington really everybody really pointed to Bob Quick and Commerce Lexington as the gold standard for mur for how to do to do this, how to merge organizations successfully. So we recommended a couple things. First, we recommended that we pull stakeholders together and we have a we had a breakfast and we briefed them on the discussion and what we were considering. At that breakfast, we said, who wants to go on a on a field trip to Lexington, Kentucky? and based on the interest level there, we which we had a lot of interest, we took a a trip to Lexington with stakeholders, really asked Bob and his team and his stakeholders how they did it, what the process was like, what were the hurdles, what were the pitfalls. And after that was a two-day trip to Lexington. After that trip, we came back. And created committees, if you will, based on what we learned. So we had an organization committee, we had a legal committee, we had a program of work committee, we had a financial committee. Those individual committees were working on the pieces of if we pull these organizations together, what's it gonna look like? And then the whole time the whole time we're going through that, we're trying to communicate to stakeholders and communicate. to members what this potentially could look like and getting a lot getting a lot of feedback. But really the volunteer team, they they were the volunteers were were driving these discussions. And then Christine and I and our two organizations really became the ones that create that that gathered the data and communicated the data and and you know kept the organizational structure moving forward. And so 18 months into that It would have been in December of twenty, would have been November, December of twenty fifteen. We pulled both boards together. we had a briefing session with the two boards, reviewed the gave the final presentation on articles, the bylaws, auditors of incorporation, what the organizational structure would look like, staffing would look like, how how everything was going to be merged together. The two boards asked lots of questions.
17:21.078 Megan Lucas
And then they separated and you know each went to their own corner and the boards voted. then after they voted, they came back together, reported the vote, and on January 2nd of 2016, we stood up the Lynchburg Regional Business Alliance, the Regional Chamber of Commerce and Economic Development.
17:39.624 Brandon Burton
Awesome. That gives us a really clear picture of how that everything unfolded. And yeah, as you talked about going to visit Commerce Lexington Commerce Lexington and Bob Quick, it's funny. He was actually a guest here on the podcast back on episode forty two and he talked about chamber travel events where he talked about the the value in taking some of these stakeholders to see other chambers and how they do things and It's interesting that that was his whole topic and here it is, you guys are going to visit him to see absolutely the example of how he did it there.
18:12.844 Megan Lucas
And there are lots of really great organizations who've merged. And really, Brandon, this is a it was a pendulum swing. You when I first got into chamber in the into the chamber industry in the in the in the late 90s, chambers and economic development organizations, they'd already been together for years, but at that time they started to pull themselves apart and go their separate ways. So now I would say in the past 15 year years, the pendulum has swung back the other way. Where economic development organizations and chambers of commerce are coming back together. Now in Bob's case, in Commerce Lexington, they brought the chambers together, they brought the economic development together, and they brought workforce development together. we had just brought those two organizations together. And there's certainly a lot of examples of other communities who who've brought more together or multiple chambers together, right? We're st and and that's where we're what we're starting to see now additionally. But the pendulum to bring chambers and economic development groups back together really started to swing back, I would say about 15 years ago, 10 to 15 years ago. Now, as a result of COVID, we are seeing that about, I think they're estimating about a third of local chambers will close their doors as a result of COVID. And so that's generating the the discussion about merging chambers of commerce now, in addition to economic development organizations and other.
19:35.65 Brandon Burton
Yeah. So as you talked about kind of there at the I wasn't say the end, but really the beginning of what is your new organization. you talked about the two boards, the economic development for the chamber kind of going in their corners and and taking their votes. Once the the new chamber and economic development organization were was established, what happened to the board? How d how do you what happened to the board members? Were they all adopted onto the new board? Was there a new election? How did that
20:07.906 Megan Lucas
That's a great question. So to tell you that I'm gonna back up just a little bit, prior to the merger, the the regional economic development group, they were struggling and they had had a failed capital campaign and they they just had some issues. So they had already gone through a process of of restructuring and releasing board members. So when I came on board with the organization, there were some leaders in the community. who who were s were hurt that they had been released from that former board. So with that situation awareness, when we got to the point of putting the board of deciding the board, we decided it's best to bring the two boards together as they are and through attrition, go ahead and and reduce the size. So as we merged these two organizations, we went from having monthly board meetings to quarterly full board meetings and and An executive board meeting every other month. My board today is sits at 50 people. Wow. and my executive board today sits at 23 people. When you merge boards, you know, our boards, our senior leaderships are the are the influencers in our community. So when you merge those boards and you kick people to the curb, you can lose revenue, you can use lose in an influence, you can you lose voice. So we made the decision based on the the what had happened historically to bring both boards together with those people that wanted to stay engaged as a board as a board member. And so that's what we did.
21:48.556 Brandon Burton
You're absolutely right. You have to be careful with that transition and and you don't want to hurt feelings and and put people out. but also as the executive, it it can't be easy to to work for 50 board members, right? So and I I don't want to put you in a hard spot, but how does that how does that look as you deal with so many board members that all have different opinions and and strategies to
22:15.756 Megan Lucas
They they absolutely do, that's a great question. I think it comes down to personal a little bit to my personality, I would say, but our board of directors is responsible for for s strategic discussions and governance. And so I have been blessed, really blessed for all the organizations I've worked for to not have boards that try and micromanage the organization or the CEO. So my I I'm I have a very good board and the board members Do not they they you know good board orientation, good board job descriptions really help sets the stage for the type of board any any CEO will have. And if you don't clarify those expectations in the beginning, then it could lead to a board who may try and micromanage the organization or micromanage the CEO. Fortunately, we don't have that here. so when it comes to board management, you know, there there is an art to managing. the the relationships that are incru are critical for a CEO to have with board members because 50 is a lot. But as far as executing the the pro program of work and the mission, I it is it hasn't been a problem.
23:30.722 Brandon Burton
So do you think it's just luck that you've been blessed with a a great board to work with? Or I mean, you'd mentioned there there is something to be said there as far as the management goes and and being able to to work with different personalities and everything. what what has worked well for you to be able to to cause I I refuse to to believe that it's just luck that that you got 50 great people to work with.
23:56.254 Megan Lucas
Am lucky, you know, and you know, when you have a board and it's made up of peers, right? So our board is is actually 47, but I always use 50. But our board of 50, they're peers, and they keep each other in line. And so and so really I I haven't I I've rarely experienced what some of our other colleagues may experience in chambers of commerce in that you know, having a board that wants to you know, I call it ride herd on an issue or ride herd on an executive director or a CEO. We have a you know, as a the Lynchburg Regional Business Alliance, we have a mission, a vision, we have a strategic plan and we are executing according to that strategic plan. And if there were to be a board member who wanted to go rogue, I think that the existing board members, the peers, help keep really can really help put to prevent that from happening.
24:55.852 Brandon Burton
That's good. That that makes it a little or I I should say a lot more clear.
25:01.45 Megan Lucas
Absolutely. And really you you can't you at the very core of what what chambers of commerce do, board orientation, clear expectations between staff responsibilities and board responsibilities, the job description of a board, a board member, all of those things really play into setting the expectation and the clear line for how a board a board can can engage. And I'll tell you, one of Things that I see a lot, sometimes I think that you know, we as chambers of commerce are businesses. I I I am tasked with running a business, and that business is a chamber of commerce. That business is the Lynchburg Regional Business Alliance. And if my board does not see the alliance as a serious business, then they will that opens the door for them to micromanage or to pick and nitpick and and you know, go rogue or jump the shark. And so I find that when I engage with other chambers of commerce, sometimes smaller local chambers, the problem is the perception that a board member does not perceive the organization as a serious, influential organization convening champions for business and building building collaborative relationships. So a lot of times it will come down to how a board member perceives the organization. And if that board member perceives it inappropriately, then you have a problem board member.
26:32.716 Brandon Burton
Yeah. Yeah, that is a great point to make. Absolutely. So in the past four years since the the the merger, I'm sure everything has just been smooth sailing, right? So what have been some of the the things you've learned in the last four years through this merger and and maybe tips and advice that that you would give for for any other organizations that are considering a merger to to try to make things as smoothly as possible?
27:03.064 Megan Lucas
Well, you have to have you have to have a stakeholder buy-in. Your volunteers need to be leading the leading the charge. Otherwise you become as the CEO right now, you know, I could be perceived as that person who wanted to take over everything. And it wasn't Megan Lucas leading this, it wasn't Christine Kennedy leading this merger, it was the volunteer bus it was the business leadership of the community saying, Wait a minute, there's a better way, there's a better platform to do this, and we charge. Megan, Lucas, and Christine Kennedy to map this process for us. So I think the real key in the beginning is is open communic honest communication about what your goals are and and and the why, why you would engage the discussion. You can't communicate enough, you can't overcommunicate, because you know and we see it now in COVID, you have to create the message and you have to repeat it multiple times. And you also have to understand for us, we have we on ec on the economic development side of the house, we have municipal partners, we have municipal dollars. And so business moves more quickly, oftentimes than government. And so trying to manage those the differences between public sector and private sector. So my advice is, you know, always get lots of information. Don't assume that you your way is the right way. and every community is different when you're create when you're But really, the hurdles are to communicate, communicate, communicate, and really truly collaborate, get as much people to talk about what the opportunities are, hear what they think, what they're worried that the hurdles will be, and find the answers, communicate the answers to those issues. But we were really fortunate because the community wanted to see this happen. And it wasn't a scenario where one organization was failing miserably and the other one was just gonna take it over. There are those examples throughout the community, throughout the throughout the country. So it depends on the the purpose for the merger and the region behind the reason behind it. But ultimately I can't stress the communication, open communication, collaboration enough and honesty.
29:20.438 Brandon Burton
So as we are in these COVID times and some chambers are looking at the the possibility of needing to merge with another chamber even, how would they take a look at that with this being needing to be driven by by the volunteers? do they just say here, listen to this podcast episode or Absolutely
29:42.014 Megan Lucas
They say absolutely listen to the podcast. Well, I think that there I would say that the that if if I were running an organ a chamber of commerce right now that is struggling in COVID, you know, looking at the finances, looking at the the program of work, it's a discussion that as a CEO I would have with my executive board. And then I would Ask the execution the executive board to weigh in. What do they want to do? What do they see as the possible options? And then if they want to have if if there's an opportunity for a merger with another, you know, a similar or another another chamber of commerce or even another organization, then it's having a maybe a board chair to board chair discussion to test the waters. would you all enter would you entertain a discussion of how about how to come together and be stronger for our business community and stronger for each other? and then if that conversation moves well, then I'd bring it to, you know, maybe you know, a couple members from each executive board coming together and saying, Do we want to have an exploratory committee about this? And what data is out there for us to review? And I think I would start it there. And just talk about you know, the why a the why. Why would you do it? What is the need? Is it better to have your chamber go out of business or or or more merge with another entity altogether and be in and work work more diligently for your economy?
31:19.094 Brandon Burton
Yeah. I think that's a good good piece of advice. to start those those discussions with your executive board and and kind of put the idea there of look, here's what the finances look like, here's what the structure looks like, you guys know what do you suggest, you know, and and kind of let it be their idea, but and kind of presenting the facts. So as we start. Wrapping things up here, I I did wanna ask you, what would might be one action item that a a chamber professional can do today to help take their chamber up to the next level?
31:57.87 Megan Lucas
I think that remember our core, which is the care and feeding of our members. And our members are our biggest advoc advocates. And the more we advocate for them, the more they'll advocate for us. So I think that you know, what I've had to do in COVID times is going back to basics is picking up the phone and calling a member and saying, How are you today? What's going on? What's how what what's challenging in your business and how can we support you? really that's I I I would say that's your action item today. make a goal next week to to call three of your members every day, three different members every day, check in. How are you doing? What's going on? How can we support you? do you have a need? Here's how we can fill it. Have a great day. Call if you need anything. And so that's a takeaway. Have you picked up the phone? Have you reached out and touched someone today? Remember that's old commercial. Yeah. Pick up the pick up the actual phone and have an actual conversation, not an email, not a Facebook messenger, not a video a video call. Pick up the phone and say, How you doing?
33:13.058 Brandon Burton
I was gonna say I I love how that's a it's a phone call and it's not an email. and if it works, I mean drop in, drop into the business and and check in on them. I mean, to me that counts as you know, ten times the value of a phone call. But a phone call is that's doable. Doing three of those every day, that's very doable. And it it promotes that value to those members. They see that you care and and then they become an a a bigger advocate for the change. Great tip.
33:41.624 Megan Lucas
Absolutely.
33:43.618 Brandon Burton
So I asked this question to everyone I have on the show, as we all want to know what the future looks like for chambers, from your your perspective, how do you see the future of chambers of commerce and their poop their purpose moving forward?
33:56.718 Megan Lucas
the future for for our profession is is bright. I think that we are the catalyst for our communities and I believe the sky is not the limit. I think we are going to go to the moon and and beyond. And so I think the future is bright for for chambers of commerce. Those chambers who are nimble and dynamic and flexible and realize that they're that they are there to lead their communities, to support their business organizations, but to lead their communities. So I'm inspired by the futures of the future for chambers of commerce.
34:35.029 Brandon Burton
I love that idea of unlimited potential. As soon as you think the sky is a limit and you get to the sky, you set new goals and you keep going.
34:42.53 Megan Lucas
My friend, my my friend Jay Byers, he always likes to say, you know, he he gave a speech one time and you know, be bold and fight above your white weight class, and that's what we're doing. And that's what chambers are are our are should be doing. We should be bold and we should be fighting above our weight classes and certainly we should be advocating for the the strength of our business community.
35:05.742 Brandon Burton
Yes, absolutely. So I wanted to to give you an opportunity. I I think you've provided a lot of great perspective and value for for everyone listening. But if for anyone any of the chamber champions out there that have any questions about what you've discussed or how you did things there in Lynchburg, what would be the best ways for them to reach out and connect with you to even continue this discussion offline or or just follow up with you?
35:31.38 Megan Lucas
I welcome any opportunity to talk to anyone about anything. they can reach me at Megan Lucas. Megan Lucas at Lynchburg Region.org. certainly they can I'm on social media, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter. They can follow me, find me there. or they can, you know, give me a buzz at 434-401-8679. I'm happy to talk to anybody.
35:58.272 Brandon Burton
Right. And we will get all those ways to contact you in our show notes for this episode in case people are driving or anything, couldn't write quick enough. the show notes page will be found at chamberchatpodcast dot com slash episode ninety two. But again, Megan, thank you for spending time with us today. I really do appreciate it. You're doing some great things and and shared a lot of value with us today. Appreciate it.
36:23.032 Megan Lucas
Thank you so much for having me. Have a great day.
36:25.814 Brandon Burton
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