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Episode 72 — Bismarck-Mandan Chamber EDC 2020 Chamber of the Year Finalist with Brian Ritter
Clean Speaker-Labeled Transcript
Guest: Brian Ritter
Automated QA: Passed

00:00.2 Brandon Burton
This special episode is part of our 2020 Chamber of the Year Finalist series, where you get to hear from some of the top chambers across the country. I hope you find great value in this series, but first, the intro. This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.
00:29.29 Brandon Burton
And now your host. He tries to have a personal interview with each of his kids every month. Just check in. He's my dad, Brandon Burton. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. This is Brandon Burton, and you're joining us today for episode 72 of Chamber Chat Podcast. It is my goal here to help introduce you to people and ideas so you can better serve your chamber members and your community. So this episode is the beginning of a special Chamber of the Year finalists series for the 2020 ACCE Chamber of the Year Finalists. And our guest for this episode is Brian Ritter, who's the president and CEO of the Bismarck Mandan Chamber and Economic Development Corporation in North Dakota.
01:22.164 Brandon Burton
If you happen to be new to listening to Chamber Chat Podcast, I would invite you to check out our Get Started page, which is found at chamberchatpodcast.com/start. There you can find some resources for some nondues revenue ideas, which I know is important right now, as well as our free chamber podcasting guide, which if you've ever thought about starting a podcast for your own chamber, that's a great resource to get you started. But in our episode today with Brian, We will be talking about kind of what makes his chamber stand out a little bit to be considered as a chamber of the year, but a little bit about Brian. Brian has been with the Bismarck Mandan Chamber EDC and its predecessors, the Bismarck Mandan Chamber of Commerce and the Bismarck Mandan Development Association since 2003. As president of the Chamber of the Chamber EDC. He is responsible for the day-to-day operations of the organization, implementing the organization's 2020 and 2022 strategic plan, and working with the Chamber EDC's approximately 1,200 members. He's a two time graduate of the University of Mary in Bismarck with a bachelor's degree in business communications and a master's in business administration. Brian has also graduated from the University of Oklahoma's Economic Development Institute. We're excited to get into this discussion with Brian and we'll dive into it as soon as we get back from hearing from our sponsor. Chambers are not considered for Chamber of the Year without having great programs and steady streams of non-dues revenue. I want to introduce you to a great affinity program from Swipe It. In partnership with ChamberChat Podcast, Swipe It is one of the best credit card processors in the business. With the Swipe It Affinity program, You can save up to 40% on your credit card processing fees at the chamber and help your member partners to do the same. Chambers who take advantage of the Swipe It Affinity program can add thousands of dollars to their non-dues revenue annually. Please visit ChamberchatPodcast.com slash CC for more information and to request your complimentary cost savings analysis from the experts at Swipe It.
03:42.562 Brandon Burton
The first twenty chambers to respond will qualify for free equipment to get set up. Again, visit chamberchatpodcast dot com slash C C to start swiping with swipe it. Okay, Brian, we are back. If you will, take a moment to say hello to all the chamber champions out there listening, and if you would share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little bit better.
04:07.736 Brian Ritter
Brandon, thank you so much for having me on. this really is a privilege for us here in Bismarck-Mandan. And in in light of everything that's happening around the country and impacting all of our industries, I really do appreciate the chance to share with your listeners some of the things that we're doing here in Bismarck-Mandan that I that make our organization unique. And to that point, and to your question, maybe something that people might find interesting is that I think myself, I think I'm probably a prime example of that person. Who started at the bottom of the organization and has worked their way to the top in the sense that my first job with this organization was literally as a twenty year old college junior stuck in envelopes. And I was I was fortunate enough to stuff off stuck in envelopes and just work my way seventeen years later to becoming the president of the organization.
04:54.232 Brandon Burton
That is awesome. I was gonna joke about working in the mailroom, but that's start starting at the bottom, working your way up. That's awesome. so share with us a little bit about the Bismarck Mandan Chamber EDC, just to give everyone a little better perspective, kind of where you're sitting as we go through our discussion today, maybe about the size, location, budget, staff, things like that.
05:17.93 Brian Ritter
Absolutely. So so the Chamber EDC here at Bismarck Mandan is a relatively new organization in the sense that we were formed in 2019 after a merger of the Bismarck Mandan Chamber of Commerce, which was our traditional chamber, and then the Bismarck Mandan Development Association, which was our economic development organization. And so due to a lot of factors I think that a a lot of your listeners and a lot of other organizations are facing around the country, we merged the two organizations. I previously served as president of both in 2019 and what Has resulted really is a unified business development organization serving not only the two cities Bismarck-Mandan but our entire metropolitan area, which is about 130,000 people. We truly are a regional economy located here in Central North Dakota. We serve businesses and residents from northern South Dakota, Central and Western North Dakota, and as well as eastern Montana. And so we're very fortunate in the sense that we are a regional economy. our organization. As a part of that regional economy. We have a staff of thirteen people, split up between, of course, account development functions, business advocacy functions, and as well the operations. We have about twelve hundred members right now. And I I know that's something a lot of us are facing right now in the industry is how do we gain and keep new members? But we've been very fortunate, we've got about twelve hundred members. And our budget is about one point eight million dollars. And and we definitely do benchmark our our budget size and how we use that with information we glean from the ACCE. So again, we're a relatively new organization. We're a little bit of an anomaly in North Dakota in the sense that we're the only large city that has gone through this merger process. But I think it's what's part of what made us so unique.
07:01.022 Brandon Burton
I know some of those questions right now are are kind of in flux and a little relative as far as the size, new membership and budget and even staff, you know, is all kind of in flux at a lot of chambers. So I understand a little little flux there, but I appreciate you giving us a little little bit of background and and especially with that that merger between economic development and the chamber, I think really gives some some perspective. So as we kind of dive into the the chamber of the year application process. You submitted your your synopsis for your chamber, if you wouldn't mind just kinda hitting those highlights and and we can maybe dive into those a little bit.
07:46.506 Brian Ritter
Absolutely. And and the the two the two things I really want focus on as part of our application are two things that I really do think make our community and the organization unique. And the first is a program called Lemonade Day. And I think some of your listeners will more than likely be familiar with Lemonade Day because it is part of a national effort, but it's something that we just brought here to Bismarck Mandan about four years ago. We're going on our fourth year right now. And for those who might not be familiar, what Lemonade Day is, is really an initiative to encourage that entrepreneurial spirit, that entrepreneurial development, get that bug, get it in our in our community's youth really by encouraging their participation in what is that kind of all American, that that that prototypical first business. And that's Lemonade Stand. And so Lemonade Day really seeks to encourage entrepreneurial development by encouraging kids to take one day out of every year. And our our day is coming up June 20th of this summer. And we are looking to have kids from all across Bismarck-Mandan and our trade area sign up and open a lemonade day, open up a lemonade stand on one day across the community. And to help them do that, we will provide them resources like through our I mean, through some of our banking partners, we'll give them that first money bag they need to get set up. We'll give them an entrepreneurship guide that will help them start kind of their own business. Talk about their inputs, their expenses, and how to catch up their profits, things like that. And then we try to encourage them to, you know, with that money they make, really try to encourage them to save some and to donate some and to invest some, really to do everything we can to mirror what would be that experience of opening your own business. And again, the goal is to really instill that entrepreneurial spirit so that as they get older, they really consider becoming our community's next homegrown business. And that's the way we're gonna keep our community growing. Hopefully that's way one of the ways we're gonna keep our chamber growing as well. And so I'm so so proud. We've seen in in three years, we've seen the program grow from zero to last year. We had over six hundred kids from across the community sign up for the par for the program. And this year, of course, with everything being the way it is, we're prepared for a bit of a dip. However, what I would tell you is that last week we hosted our lemonade day kickoff. Our it was really meant to be the kickoff event. And we actually signed up more kids through this year's kickoff event.
10:06.83 Brian Ritter
than we did last year's. And so what that tells me, and the reason it gives me cause for optimism is that kids are still out there, they still want to be a part of program, and the community is still hungry to support them. So again, I I I'm so so proud of our team, what they've done with Lemonade Day, and to see the results even so far this year, I'm really encouraged what we're gonna see later in the summer.
10:26.412 Brandon Burton
That is awesome. I love seeing that entrepreneurial bug and especially in youth and in children to be able to kind of open their eyes to the opportunity and to provide something like this for them to to work towards and kind of a framework to to work with and to kind of see what their future could look like. Not necessarily lemonade, but being a small business owner and letting that grow and getting those fundamentals set up. And as you were talking about Lemonade Day. Knowing you have some background in communications and and obviously with me doing the podcast, communication is important to me as well. But how are you communicating the opportunity for Lemonade Day to the the kids throughout your community?
11:08.91 Brian Ritter
So that that's that's a fantastic question. It's something that we're passionate about. And we've taken a number different approaches. The first is we really try to work with our partners in education. We've got great relationships with our public and private school systems by which we're able to actually communicate with them, and where appropriate, they're able to pass that word on to their students. Obviously, this year it's been a little bit more difficult because everyone's been distance learning, but we really try to start off with our partners in education. Then we look to our community partners. And so I'll I'll use our YMCA as a prime example. Every year before we actually kick off Lemonade Day, the weekend before, we have a Lemonade Day tasting challenge where we invite between eight and ten participants to come into our local YMCA and really kind of do a test run and they try out new recipes. We award prizes to winners, and we get the word out that way. And that's been a fantastic, fantastic way of getting the word out. And then finally, We have been located utilizing our local media. In fact, just last week I was over at one of our family of radio stations shooting commercials because we are paying for advertising to get that word out there. And so we do have three channels, education, our community partners, as well as media. And we think by doing that consistently over about a six to eight week period prior to the event, we'll continue to see continued growth.
12:29.73 Brandon Burton
That's great. So over the last three years doing this, has there been maybe a one or two lemonade stands that really stood out to you? Maybe it was a recipe or the way they did business or the way that they just set up their stand that really wowed you?
12:44.45 Brian Ritter
There is there's one young man, his name is Brecken. And Brecken has been a part of the program the fur I mean for for each year of the program so far. And every year he will theme his stand as a baseball, essentially a baseball themed stand. He will, you know, he'll wear b he'll wear his baseball uniform for that year. He will try out new recipes and give them baseball themed names. he always tries to get the most choice locations across Bismarck Mandan. Because he will call some large retailers or high traffic spots and say, Can I get my stand there again this year? And we've gotten to the point where we know Brecken and his family because he has been such a dedicated participant and you you just you can't say enough good things while people like
13:30.168 Brandon Burton
That's awesome. I love it. I knew there'd be a good answer there.
13:34.712 Brian Ritter
Yeah, and he and he's just and he's just one of them.
13:37.368 Brandon Burton
Yeah, that is amazing. So what is the the other highlight on the application, your other synopsis?
13:44.302 Brian Ritter
Yeah, absolutely. So we talked about Lemonade Day being a bit more maybe more of an advocacy, maybe call it a more of a chamber focused event in terms of what it does for the community. But our organization, of course, also has an account development function. And when we consider Bismarck-Mandan's economy right now, prior to COVID nineteen, we had about a flat two, two point one percent unemployment rate. North Dakota has traditionally had one of the lowest unemployment rates in the country. In a metro our size, About 130,000 people, any given time we've got between two and three thousand open jobs. And so creating jobs is one thing, but the bigger deal for us is really trying how we're going to fill those open jobs. We can A try to attract new talent from outside the market to Bismarck Mandan. And we know and the community is growing. We just saw the latest sense estimates released last week. And so we know the community is growing. Or we can try to take advantage of the fact that we have essentially a captive audience. With our students right here in Bismarck Mandan and try to keep them here and grow and fill those open jobs. So we've developed some workforce development programming that are aimed towards the kids. But one thing that we heard was that a lot of in a lot of cases, our educators don't even know what available opportunities there are in terms of careers and jobs for their students. And so we created a program called E2, the Educator Experience. And the Educator Experience really is essentially a teacher internship. And what we've done is Take between 15 and 20 area educators, we pay for their continuum education credits through the University of North Dakota. And then we place them in a series of half-day workshops for one week. And those half-day workshops are really themed. And so they might spend a half-day learning about careers in communications. And we'll bring in an advertising firm and a television studio and things like that. And those professionals themselves will tell the educators. what career opportunities, what the earning potential is, what education paths they need to get there, they will share with them and we'll do communications for one half day. And then we'll do, we'll call them the blue collar trades for another half day. And then we'll do agriculture for another half a day. And we do that for an entire week with the end goal that those educators will then take all that information with them back into the classroom. So that as they have students who maybe are asking questions about what do I do after I graduate.
16:10.952 Brian Ritter
Or I want to get an internship or I want to participate in a job shadow, hopefully they will take that knowledge with them and be able to better connect them with our members in the business community and by doing so help fill some of those thousands of open jobs here in Bismarck-Mandan. And that that program, this will be our fourth year of the program as well. And I was a little bit hesitant to I was a little reluctant to see what the results were. But within about a week of us opening the program, we had fifteen educators from across the community who wanted to be part of this program again this year.
16:42.242 Brandon Burton
That's great. I know a lot of chambers I've heard of if as they d work on talent and workforce development, is they're focusing on the student themselves. But I think it's neat to be able to go after the educators and really they're gonna be that staple that's there in the school system year after year. And if they're aware of the opportunities there and and kind of help mentor and counsel and direct these youth into different career opportunities, I think really helps to open that door at an early stage rather than trying to kinda herd cats of you know with all the the students, get those educators really informed. And and I'm sure those educators are gonna go back and share their experience with with their peers and colleagues as well.
17:27.214 Brian Ritter
Well, and what's what's so encouraging for us is that yes, we have the educator experience program, we call it E2, but we also do have what we've called a continuum of workforce development efforts that are focused on the students, to your point, Brandon. Even starting in middle school, where we really focus on making relationships and getting the business community into the classroom. When we get to high school, every year we have a job shadow week that we host in February, where we try to take high school students and place in a series of two or four hour job shadows. And then our efforts at the college level are really focused at internship really related experiences. So again, our hope is that if we take them from middle school with those classroom experiences, from high school with the job shadow, and college with an internship, hopefully that will end with them staying in Bismarck-Mandan and again filling one of those thousands of
18:14.368 Brandon Burton
That's great. I I always wonder in these kind of programs if there's anything that you have in place as far as tracking the success or the experiences of these students. I know it can be hard when you're talking about students, especially in high school and and things like that, but what benchmarks do you have to look back on to say, you know, this talent and workforce development program really paid off and and it's worth our time and effort that we're putting into it?
18:41.912 Brian Ritter
So if we so if we start off the talent on the talent side, when we when we think about our talent attraction efforts, all the ultimate baseline is is did your population increase? Did the size of your workforce increase? And we know from our monthly reports from our job placement offices and like our just referenced Census Bureau, we know that Bismarck Mandan is growing. And so we'll we'll use that as the ultimate benchmark for are the is your community continuing to increase in size, and we know that it is. On that workforce development side, the benchmarks we're going to use. Our participation. We're gonna we're gonna look at have we seen the number of kids participating in, for instance, our job shadow week increasing. And this year compared to the last three years, yes, we saw an increase this year the number of students participating. When we look at another benchmark being that participation from the educator level, we already have more teachers registered for our program this year than we had participated last year. And so we we do we do look at those metrics and we're very pleased for that.
19:39.926 Brandon Burton
That's great. I think that makes perfect sense. Now, as from your point of view, you know, looking at the Bismarck Mandan Chamber, EDC and kind of what you guys are doing there, what do you think stands out? Kind of makes you guys stand out above other chambers across the country that things maybe that you're doing that other chambers wouldn't normally do.
20:03.694 Brian Ritter
Well, Brandon, I I've I've thought a lot about that question and what I'm most encouraged by what I'm really what I'm really proud most proud of our team for is really the culture of relationships that they've built and and what that we've built. What I mean by that is I think for chambers of our size and and across the country, sometimes it's easy to look at your membership as a as a as a number, right? It's easy to look at the fact that we have plus or minus twelve hundred members and we just want to focus on growing that number. But what we've tried to instill in our team is that we're only gonna be able to do that if we quit treating them as con our members as contacts and start treating them as relationships. And so one thing that we try to do, and and my team and I just met again this morning to talk about this is that we have a system set up in place and essentially it's contributing to that culture that we're building, where we will have each member of our team reach out to three, four members on a weekly or bi-weekly basis. Just to check in. No ask, no request for money, no ask for a sponsorship, but just how are you doing and what can we do to help? Because if we can do that successfully, if we can develop relationships and understand the difference between a relationship and a contact, then when we go we go to get that membership renewal, it's a lot easier. Or when we go to try to get a new member, we can we can hopefully reference that relationship we built with someone else. And utilize that to help bring on a new member. That has not always been the case, I think, in our industry, and particularly maybe in our in our organization. But what I've seen from this team is a willingness to do that. They've ex they've exhibited a desire to truly develop relationships with their with their members. And in doing so, we're you know, I think we're gonna see an increased retention rate and ultimately a strong organization as a result. So if I can boil that all down. It really boils it really comes down to relationships which will translate to success.
22:06.422 Brandon Burton
I think that's so important, checking in and building those relationships. And as you're explaining that, it reminded me of Gary Vaynerchuk has this book, you know, jab, jab, jab, right hook. So we're you're giving, giving, giving, and then you make the ask. I mean, it's it's a lot of times you just see the ask, the ask, the ask, you know, sponsor this, donate this, attend this. But if you're just checking in, building that relationship and constantly giving value, you know, three to four times between each ask. I think that really helps develop that relationship and doesn't make it so one sided. So I think that's a a great example that that you guys are setting. Now, as as most of the well most of the country, most of the businesses throughout the country are struggling economically from the impacts of the the COVID nineteen pandemic. would you mind sharing what your plans are in your community? I think every community is affected a little differently, but see what your plans are to help lead your business community through the recovery from this
23:17.762 Brian Ritter
Absolutely. So Brandon, I I'm gonna I'm gonna take one step back and then talk about what we did at the outset really of the situation and and we knew very quickly that we had to define our role. I I think most people understand what a chamber or a chamber EDC does for the community, but in really it's a cliche term, but what really were uncertain times, we had to define what the chamber EDC was going to do for the community. And we defined really three roles. The first was to continue to be that business advocate. To our local, state and federal officials so we could provide input on things like the PPP, on what was happening with the SBA's EIDL loans, things like that. We knew we had to continue to advocate. So that was the first rule. The second was to be supportive. I think all of us in the industry have probably found a renewed focus on supporting our membership, supporting local business, and doing things, doing whatever we can to help businesses stay afloat during this time. And so we we went so far as we created a new web series. We created a series of contests, I mean, to support local businesses. And so we knew that the second role had to be a supporter. And the third had to be a resource provider for our members. Because we were taking phone calls at night from people wondering, you know, if if I don't asking questions, I can think of one in particular. We'd remember calling 8:30 on a Tuesday night and say, listen, if I don't get some help, I'm not gonna be able to make my payroll on Friday. And it's in those times that you really learned quickly what resources your members need and how can you provide them. And so we defined up front we were gonna be a resource provider, a supporter, and an advocate. And that served us well for the last probably six to eight weeks. Well, then probably about the middle of that time frame, we knew that we had to be prepared to pivot then to what we'll call recovery mode. you know, when the tone was right. There would be no there was gonna be no red line that said once we hit this metric, it's time to shift over. And so we waited for the right time, we sensed the tone. And we've really rolled out four or five new initiatives, new programs, or new products to help in recovery. The first is a new business assistance guide. This is really a new publication for us that whether you're using it now in the recovery or in terms the future, it's a one-stop shop for all those resources that any business might need for workforce or for business financing, incentives, anything like that. Second, we've developed a new publication designed towards trying to generate or encourage new investment from the outside of our community.
25:45.646 Brian Ritter
that's really directed towards corporate site selectors and corporate real estate agents. We've also commissioned a new video series. increasingly people are gonna have a choice in terms of where they work by and they'll be able to dictate where they live for that job. Right. If if telecommunity becomes a wider a wider trend and sustainable trend, then we're gonna have to position Bismarck-Mandan as a place where they want to live and do that job remotely. So we've commissioned a new video series that we'll roll out later this fall to try to To try to spotlight Bismarck Mandan as that place. And then finally, we know one of the issues that we're gonna have coming out of the recovery really is consumer confidence. Am I gonna be willing to pull that trigger and make an investment and expand my business and grow my business if I don't really feel good about what's happening around my community? And so later this week, we will be releasing a new market update that, through renderings and stats and everything else, really quantifies all the great things happening around Bismarck and Mandan. And so there right there, there's three, four things just coming out of the recovery that we think we can do best to try to help our members.
26:51.03 Brandon Burton
That's great. I think those are even if other chambers listening don't copy everything, you know, word for word what you said, hopefully that sparks some ideas that as they hear that they could see it what stood out to me was building that consumer confidence. And maybe that looks different in your community versus another, but but it's important regardless where you're at. So I hope everybody can take something from that and and tweak it and apply it to your chamber however it works best for you. so Brian, as we kind of start wrapping things up here, what might be one action item or or piece of advice that you would suggest to the the chamber champions out there listening that can help them take their chamber up to the next level?
27:39.48 Brian Ritter
The thing that I think that we as an industry need to continue to understand and recognize, and this sounds cliche, but I'll say it anyways, the days of at least here in Bismarck-Mandan, the days of a of a business joining the chamber because it's the quote right thing to do are past us. We need to continue to look for new ways to innovate and to exhibit our value, whether it's in black and white, whether it's through a modified ROI model. But we need to continue to innovate and continue to exhibit our value differently than we have in the past. And whether that's an as an information provider, as an agent to do business growth, whatever that might be, I would encourage all of your listeners and all of my counterparts across the industry to look in the mirror, to talk to your members, and to figure out what is that expectation and what do those what do our businesses now expect in return for renewing that membership every single year. Because yes, you are gonna have those who will do it because they've always done it and because they believe in it, but increasingly I think we are gonna have to exhibit our value in more black and white terms and be able to show concrete examples of what are we doing in return for that investment. And that's why we have to look at it as an investment in their community, in our organizations. So I would challenge and ask all my colleagues to do the same thing that we're doing right now. Have those hard conversations, don't be afraid of the answer, because in the end it's gonna make us all better.
29:08.386 Brandon Burton
That's right. If they look at this, especially right now when money's tight for a lot of businesses, if they can look at their investment with the chamber as truly being an investment and that great value that they get out of it, that's going to be looked at very differently than paying dues for a membership that they maybe can't put a tangible result on. So really exhibit what that value is and make it known and really attract that that investment mentality. I think that's great, great piece of advice. So Brian, I I asked this question to everyone that I have on the podcast that as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see their purpose going forward?
29:48.664 Brian Ritter
But i it it quite frankly, that's that's an existential question that that we ask ourselves almost on a on a regular basis. And that's the way I the way I see our value changing really is a number of different ways. But like you just heard me say, first we have to be able to better quantify our value than we ever have in the past. Second, we can't be afraid to ask the question of our membership to just to define what is our expectation, because in the past, perhaps it was just about community advanced. or parades or something like that. and again it will all depend on the size of your community and the complexion of your community. But then don't be afraid of the answer when they when they tell you something that you're not doing. Or when they maybe tell you something that this does that you that you're not currently thinking about doing. Because ultimately I think what you'll find is that in those periods of growth, in those periods of painful growth, what you come out as is a better organization. What you come out as is a stronger organization. And so I think we need to continue to ask the hard questions and continue to evolve as information providers, as resource providers, as change agents, in addition to all the traditional roles. And again, I don't put specifics on there because I think for each organization, for each community, that's different. But I think we do need all to continue to look for ways that we remain relevant. And that starts with having an open and honest conversation with your community. and with your members. And that's I think that's my single best piece of advice for anyone is buy lunch, buy coffee, make no ask other than what can we do for you and what can we do better.
31:30.038 Brandon Burton
Yeah. I love it. And being willing to listen and and being willing to adapt where it makes sense with your your mission and purpose of your chamber. That makes great piece of advice. So Brian, for those listening, if they have any questions about how you guys are doing things there at the Bismarck Mandan Chamber and EDC or questions about what you presented in our conversation today and want to reach out to you. What might be the best ways for them to to reach out and and connect with you?
32:00.906 Brian Ritter
Of course. So you can always you can always old school, call me on the phone. Our number here is ARI code seven zero one two two three five six six zero. Again, ask for Brian. You can email me at B Ritter. So B R I T T E R at B M C E D C dot com. Or if you're on social, you can get me on you can DM me on Twitter. my Twitter handle is just at Brian G Ritter. I think those one of those three ways I'm always checking.
32:30.646 Brandon Burton
All right. And we will update those in your the show notes for this episode, which will be found at Chamberchat Podcast dot com slash episode seventy two. But Brian, I just wanted to thank you for spending time with us today here on Chamber Chat Podcast and wish you and your organization the best with this chamber of the year. Enjoyed talking with you.
32:51.97 Brian Ritter
I I I sincerely appreciate the opportunity, Brandon, I really do.
32:56.022 Brandon Burton
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This transcript has been lightly edited for readability and to correct obvious transcription errors while preserving the meaning of the original conversation.

Episode 71 — Leadership in a Crisis with David Brown
Clean Speaker-Labeled Transcript
Guest: David Brown
Automated QA: Passed

00:00.204 Brandon Burton
Hey there, just real quick before we get into this episode, this is Brandon and I just wanted to share a quick message. If you are listening to this, chances are good that you are a chamber professional. And guaranteed if you're listening to this, you also listen to podcasts. Have you considered creating a podcast for your chamber and all the benefits that that can bring? Check out my free chamber podcasting guide at chamberchatpodcast.com slash podcasting. To learn how you can get started with your own chamber podcast. This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community. And now your host, he believes we all have something that we can learn from each other. He's my dad, Brandon Burton. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. This is your host, Brandon Burton, and you're joining us today for episode seventy-one. And our guest today is David Brown, who's the president and CEO of the Greater Omaha Chamber of Commerce. Which is one of the largest and most highly accredited chambers in the nation, and the ACCE's 2015 Chamber of the Year. With a five-star accreditation by the United States Chamber of Commerce, the Greater Omaha Chamber is in the top 1% of chambers nationally. Backed by more than 30 years of experience in economic development and chamber administration, David serves the chamber mission to Champion thriving business community and a prosperous region with bold vision, comprehensive understanding, and contagious contagious enthusiasm. He, his chamber staff, and volunteers work in earnest on behalf of more than 3,000 member businesses, encouraging their success by advocating for a strong business climate, creating opportunities for member visibility and business connections, pursuing investment and jobs for the region.
02:12.64 Brandon Burton
Strengthening leaders and the community and enhancing the region's brand and image. Under David's steady leadership, the Greater Omaha Economic Development Partnership has successfully landed more than 860 projects, representing nearly forty-two thousand jobs and more than eleven billion dollars in capital investment since two thousand four. David began his career in organizational leadership in Michigan in nineteen eighty-three. as president of Monroe County Industrial Development Corporation and Director of the Port of Monroe. He served ten years in Indiana as a Greater Fort Wayne Chamber of Commerce, first as Vice President of Economic Development and then as president. His next assignment took him to South Carolina, where he was president and CEO of the Greater Greenville Chamber of Commerce. David assumed his current role as president and CEO of the Greater Omaha Chamber in October 2003. David is a graduate of Dartmouth College where he majored in geography with a minor in environmental studies. There he played on the 1978 Ivy League Championship football team and was a recipient of the Earl P. Hamilton Award. He has completed courses at the National Development Council, the American Management Association. Bell Leadership Academy and Gallup University. In addition to his professional responsibilities, David contributes his time and expertise to numerous community service organizations, including the Aksarben Future Trust, Boy Scouts of America, College World Series of Omaha, Governor's International Trade Council, Greater Omaha Alliance for Business Ethics, Opera Omaha, the University of Nebraska Omaha Entrepreneurship. Advisory board, United Way of the Midlands, and the U.S. Strategic Command Consultation Committee. Nationally, David serves on the Association of Chamber of Commerce Executives Board and is currently serving as its chairman. He is also a member of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce Committee of 100. David and his wife Maggie have been married for 38 years and have two sons, Gregory and Elijah.
04:35.672 Brandon Burton
Today as we have David with us here on Chamber Chat Podcast, we we're recording this episode at the towards the end of April of 2020. And the focus for our discussion today will be around leadership in a crisis. And we will jump into this discussion with David as soon as we get back from hearing from our sponsor.
05:01.72 Brandon Burton
During this time of uncertainty, most chambers are looking for ways to replace funding from events and programs that either been canceled or postponed due to social distancing that does not allow for us to meet as large groups. Another topic that is top of mind for chambers is how to help their member businesses recover from the financial impact their businesses experienced. With these considerations in mind, I want to introduce you to Swipe It. Swipe It offers a credit card processing affinity program for Chambers of Commerce that can help answer your questions about how to replace some of your lost revenue while also allowing for you to serve as an advocate to your member businesses by introducing them to a resource that can save them money on their credit card processing fees so they can become more profitable. Swipe It has been a supporter of Chamber Chat Podcasts from the beginning. And they are the best in the credit card processing business. Visit Chamberchatpodcast.com slash CC, which stands for credit card, to learn how you can get swiping with Swipe It. All right, David, we are back. Thank you for joining us today on Chamber Chat Podcast. If you would just please take a moment and say hello to the audience and share something interesting about yourself that I might not have shared as I as I read through your bio.
06:30.522 David Brown
Good morning folks. I hope everybody is safe and well this end of April twenty twenty. and we have been, as you have been, dealing with this coronavirus challenge and we are right in the middle of that right now. So I hope you're all doing well. something interesting about me. Well my my wife and I as Brandon said have two sons. one's a movie maker and one's an opera singer. So I'm not quite sure how to help those folks, but expect a chamber guy to have a couple of artsy folks like that as my my kids, but they're both very happy and we're real proud of them. So we can watch movies and hear opera just about any time of the day we want to.
07:13.87 Brandon Burton
That's right. That's awesome. It it's neat neat background though, and fun to to have sons in the entertainment and arts industry. That's great. can you please just share with us a little bit about the Greater Omaha Chamber, just so we can all gain a little more perspective where you're coming from as we dive into this topic today.
07:33.934 David Brown
Sure. So the Greater Omaha Chamber has been around 126 years. We have about 2900 members, give or take a nickel or two. We do both economic development and the chamber business for a eight county region. So we're one of those about 25% of the chambers in the country that are responsible for the economic development agenda as well as the traditional chamber agenda. Our budget's right around ten million dollars a year. and while we are headquartered in downtown Omaha, we cover three counties in Iowa, right across the river, and five counties around us in Nebraska, particularly for accounts development, but also for some public policy work that we do where we end up having some some statewide impact. So it's an interesting opportunity to kind of watch the community grow, plan the community grow, and engage in really some catalytic efforts to make it a a better place. We're driven by a 2040 vision that we put together with the help of next generation consulting, Rebecca Ryan, back in 2017, where we really identified a new goal for the organization. and trying to make it a place that we knew would both accommodate the demographic shifts that we were seeing and make it the kind of place that we think Omaha really wants to be and deserves to be. So we reinvented really our work program and effort moving forward back in twenty seventeen and we've been working towards implementing that twenty forty strategy ever since.
09:16.01 Brandon Burton
All right. So I can't imagine as you guys did your twenty forty vision that you probably didn't envision this COVID nineteen pandemic in the midst of all this, right? No.
09:27.096 David Brown
No, really couldn't, although we tried to identify disruptions that could both move us forward as a region, but also might derail some of our efforts. I don't think that a pandemic was in any of the multitude of scenarios that we ran. But we we did know that there were some things that could happen that would really slow things down and most of those had to do with an interruption in commerce. what happened if the economy tanked, what happened if there was another recession, what happened if a major employer might have left, and how do we have to respond to those things? So while I would be a hundred percent lying to you if I said we had predicted a pandemic like this, we did at least know that what kind of an impact we thought might happen if there was a significant economic challenge that we had to face.
10:23.498 Brandon Burton
So and I think that's helpful. You had mentioned having that kind of vision or anticipating a possible interrupt interruption in commerce. And I'm sure that's helpful as far as positioning yourself as a leader in the community to be able to know how to respond by kind of anticipating that that is a possibility at some point. So when we talk about kind of leadership in crisis, it first of all I think it helps. to be in a good position as a leader before the crisis you know comes about. So maybe you can talk a little bit about that, about how to position yourself as a leader. it may be a little bit too late for some right now, but to be able to be prepared for the future and then maybe we could talk about kind of managing through and then looking forward with leadership through a crisis.
11:16.398 David Brown
Sure. So I think if you read any of the ACCE work that ACCE has put out really since the Horizons initiative was run a few years ago, a lot of what that document talked about was the role that a chamber exec can play in a community going forward. And you have really have some choices to make as a chamber. I mean, what role does the chamber want to play? in that community, we think that with the political fracturing that is going on in the the world and in our country and in the with the discussion that seems to happen all across the the the country in urban rural issues, partisan issues, demographic issues, can you craft a place sort of in the middle of all of that discussion that puts your organization in a A place where you are the counted on source of objective information where your members can rally around the information that you provide. And can you act as a convener and a collaborator in your community so that people are used to the chamber bringing people in to have broad discussions on topics that impact the community, not just the business community? And if you're like us and you do economic development on a regional basis, can you also then engage the region in conversations about growth and what are the issues that that need to be addressed in order to make sure that that growth occurs? So for for a lot of chamber execs and for a lot of chambers, I think there's a a need to figure out if your chamber can be one of those that is in the community building phase. Can you move people into a discussion about what the community ought look like. And if you can do that, then you've got to have a path forward where you can show people what those important issues are that need to be addressed moving forward. So I think part of that catalytic leadership piece is that you want to cause change to happen. And you want to cause change to happen that'll be positive change and you want to bring people along with you so that it's not a one person parade. You've actually got people following or engaging along.
13:38.486 David Brown
In that process. So for us, when we did the 2040 process, it actually gave us a whole new target. I mean, if you think about what chambers tend to do, you know, we will sort of like building a multi-layer cake, right? So for the last five years we got this much done. And then for the next five years, we're gonna get this much done, and then we're gonna get this much done. And pretty soon it's about the numbers, the capital investment or jobs, or members, or number of people that showed up at our events, et cetera. But it really hasn't moved. anything the organization or the community in any direction. Basically you just add it on top of it with the amount of successes that that that you've had. But what if you could identify a place where you want your community to go? And then what are the things that'll keep your your community from accomplishing those things? It was a new process for us to be thinking forward about what we wanted to be instead of planning sort of from the back, meaning You go back and assess the last five years and you figure out what you got done, what worked and what didn't work. You eliminate the stuff that didn't. You had five percent on the front side to make sure you're hitting some trends, figure out a way to pay for it and you move forward for five more years. For us, we wanted to be in the business of actually going towards a t target and saying if this is what we want want Omaha to be, then what steps do we have to take now to start taking steps towards that Omaha twenty forty plan in the future? And I think You know, chambers have that opportunity in front of them right now to figure out once we make our way through this current crisis, coming out the other side, you've got an opportunity to figure out what kind of a community you want to be moving forward. And so had you been involved in some of that leadership engagement ahead of time, or you're used to convening people, they're used to having you convene them, then during this time of crisis, it's even easier to be perceived as that convener. And where you can start having conversations about recovery and then also having conversations about what the world will look like when you come out the other end.
15:41.312 Brandon Burton
I love it. As you were giving that explanation, what stood out to me is as a chamber you want to position yourself to be that go to resource for your community. And that really that leadership in the community is is based around having a forward looking vision and to to be that catalyst for some positive change in the community.
16:01.4 David Brown
No, Brandon, I would add to that that we had we asked the Urban League of the Midlands and the United Way of the Midlands to partner with us as sponsoring the 2040 vision. And that's important because now their audiences were more comfortable with coming to the chamber with issues on the table as well. So we entered this crisis phase with an expectation that the chamber was going to be speaking with. social service organizations, government organizations, arts organizations. and that we were all going to be having this conversation together. It wasn't something that we had to kind of manufacture at the last minute. So I always constantly say that we always accomplish more together. And I think that's a a key byline of any kind of a leader is that you are able to speak to folks across a whole bunch of different walks of life and that there's enough trust at least that if you bring people together that it's going to be something that's really productive for everybody around the table.
16:59.966 Brandon Burton
Absolutely. I love those points. Now, as we are in the the midst of this crisis right now, this COVID nineteen pandemic, how have you seen some of these leadership attributes kind of shifting, maybe shift shift your focus a little bit there at the chamber? But how are you seeing that translate from kind of your good solid base of leadership to kind of crisis management with leadership?
17:26.978 David Brown
Well, you know, I would say two things have happened. One, you know, we have a an internal culture of the organization that we work really very, very hard to sustain. And we started building it back in about two thousand four or five and we worked very hard on creating this and creating this neighbor. And you know, you know, it's it's really important we're able to continue engaging the process of working on my internal culture. Because in the midst of all of this crisis, having a team that is able and willing to respond to things is really important. And so being able to get your team moving in the right direction, even when really they're worried about their lives, they're worried about the lives of their their loved ones. they're worried about whether or not they're going to have jobs at the other end, building a core inside your company that can withstand this kind of pressure and crisis is really important. And then what we have found is that while our focus narrowed appreciably down to okay, how how can we give enough information to our companies so they can make good informed choices? what information do we need to get from healthcare providers so that we can provide really good information to our members as they start making decisions about when they can reopen and when can't they reopen? what what materials we have to have on hand at the end, what business planning do we have to do now so that companies have access to materials that they're going to need to reopen and they have access to the information they need to kind of go through an orderly reopening process. So you know we've we've worked with people ever since this crisis started to think about what comes out at the other end. And I think the decisions were made for us about what the when we were going to close, when we were, when the environment was going to be such that know the government said we have to protect everybody and so you can't gather in large groups and you you you can't the restaurants can't open all those things if that happened and then how that impacted the rest of our members. And then it was inc incumbent upon us really then to respond to that and go from a very narrow agenda of how do I make sure my members are able to do what they need to do to eventually broadening it to what's recovery look like and how do I provide enough information to my members in the community that recovery can happen seamlessly.
19:55.786 David Brown
and that we can make a difference in moving the community forward as quickly as we can. So I think from a crisis management perspective, you really gotta worry about a couple of things as a leader. One of those is just always portraying calmness. We've all seen the commercial, don't don't ever let them see them see you sweat. I think that really applies here. I mean, a a strong leader in this mix has got to be able to at least reflect calmness and purpose. and goals and process, even if on the inside, you know, we're churning and wondering what's what's going to happen next. I think number one, you gotta focus on your people and make sure your people know that they're the center of your focus. And then eventually start focusing on your members and the companies in that market, and then eventually on the rest of the community. So there's a a staging of of goals I think that you've got to put in place that They they might change every day, but ultimately you've got to do this scenario planning of what happens next, and then what happens next, and then what happens next. And are they happening in a way that you have to be able to predict with some some level of certainty what happens in a worst case scenario, what happens in kind of a mid-case scenario, and what happens in a good case scenario. And then be able to communicate that to your board leadership so they understand that you're doing all the planning that you need to do to kind of come out the other end as whole as you can.
21:20.906 Brandon Burton
I think that's a key point to keep that calmness and and also to be able to keep a pulse on what you how your staff is reacting, what your members, how they're feeling, what they're you know, what they're facing, and then your general community as well. without having that pulse and that feedback, it's hard to know how to manage going forward.
21:43.0 David Brown
Yeah. Well, I think we've all spent a whole lot of time on doing video chats, conference calls, all those things. And the vast majority of my time is just spent reaching out to people who can give me more information, who want information from me, who can give me information as well, so we can communicate despite the fact that I can't get in the same room with people and lead the way I normally let. It'd be about persuasiveness and about just getting in the same room with people. You know, now you can have the same screen with people. And you're supposed to be able to figure out a way to lead in in that way. So it's a very, very different process, but in the end, it's still about communicating with people as often and as effectively as you can and being attentive upon the goal of each of those conversations and trying to make sure that the other person's getting something out of that conversation just like you are.
22:31.628 Brandon Burton
So have you have you learned anything through trying to lead through a screen that is different than doing it in person?
22:40.354 David Brown
You know, I I have realized a couple of things. It's been a lot easier to get on people's calendars since they're not flying around the world. So it's it's more likely to actually get a meeting scheduled via video chat in some cases than it is a person to person meeting. And and I think we will take that to heart as we move beyond this scenario into recovery and reopening that this will probably be with us for a while, that from a scheduling perspective. If nothing else, you save the travel time between you and the appointment and back, or your appointment in their office and back. And that saving of time I think is gonna be with us for a long time to come. So I have learned that piece that you can actually get on people's calendars. you know, I I I think I've learned that some people fit in this model really well. They take to this change famously. Others not so much. No, I get it. It's a little bit different. We got kids at home. We got sometimes both spouses working from home. And so it's it's a difficult environment. but we're gonna spend some time thinking about which of our functions at the chamber really need to have square footage at the office all the time. How much of it can be done remotely. and then we're gonna apply that same question to everything that we do across all of our contacts, to economic development clients, to elect officials to even talking with our our staff that might be around the around the country different places. How do we do things because it can be a savings to the budget and in some cases more effective, efficient way to communicate.
24:21.878 Brandon Burton
Absolutely. I think there's definitely some some blessings and some lessons to be learned as we go through this to be able to to plan moving forward to be more efficient. as we do look, you know, moving forward, you've kind of shed some light onto some things that that you're thinking about moving forward. is there anything in your plans as you know, leadership wise that that you're planning on doing as you try to lead your organization? your staff, your your members and your community through this recovery.
24:55.084 David Brown
Yeah, I I think some of it are some new habits. So I mean I I communicate with my team now as a whole team three or four times a week. there's a an email goes out or a text goes out, but somehow or another I'm communicating to our employees three or four times a week with a message from me that talks about my experience and hopefully relates to their experience. And you know, I I used to discount the time I'd spend wandering around the building just talking to people. And I realized that I'm I miss that, number one. But I also think I would miss getting a message to my people on a pretty regular basis. So I think I'm going to continue that email piece that kind of gives people sort of a behind the scenes look at what DGB thinks and how things are affecting my life and how I know that they're affecting theirs. asking some pointed questions about How people are engaging, or are there some challenges that we need to help fix? So I think that communication with my staff is something I will definitely carry away and something that I've learned here that I might have discounted before. I also communicate a lot more with my membership via the written word during this process. I'm at least every week I send out a message to our board letting them know what's going on. And now I also do the same thing with our membership in a weekly newsletter. that you know, I might I might have done that once a quarter or so before, but I think we're finding that that's something the members want us to do. and so I'm gonna be communicating with the folks outside via the written word, probably more than I did before. you know, and and finally I think as I mentioned earlier, this this webinar kind of world that we are in now is gonna be with us for a while. And I think we need to become really adept at producing webinars with really strong content that goes through the chamber and the chamber can continue to be branded as the organization that provides people with really good substantive data and information and trend information as well as how-to information that they may not get may not have gotten from us in the past or couldn't get from another source.
27:14.264 Brandon Burton
So I think as we've been going through this pandemic, I I've seen a lot of chambers doing a great job kind of bringing attention to maybe local retailers that are trying to keep their business operating one way or another. restaurants, especially with takeout and curbside pickup and everything. And and I kind of see that as the the low hanging fruit, if you will. If you watch the news, everybody's worried about, you know, what the restaurants are gonna do because people like to go out and eat, right?
27:43.518 David Brown
All right.
27:43.906 Brandon Burton
So based on the feedback that you're getting from your members and the interactions you're getting, is there anything that you're coming across that might be helpful or useful for other chamber leaders that are listening? maybe outside of the the restaurant and, you know, small main street retail businesses to help with the recovery?
28:05.506 David Brown
You know, I I have. we have an interesting kind of a bifurcation here that about ninety percent of our members have, you know, fewer than fifty employees. and the other ten percent of course tend to be be larger businesses. but it's interesting that all of them are asking for the same thing. they want to know how are we going to be successful moving forward? And what direction should we be heading? What changes do we need to make that were maybe not apparent before we went into this recovery process, but now it's it's abundantly clear that we had some some weaknesses that we need to shore up. and how do we make sure that those don't become problems for us again? So if you surround yourself with a collection of leaders from your community, I I happen to have probably Four or five meetings a week now with the a combination of folks from the arts, from the public schools, from the United Way, from the foundations, just trying to figure out what all the issues everyone is is dealing with. and those conversations used to happen sort of one one off. So I would talk to one person and then talk to another person. This this there's the need for your members to really know. where the agenda's going once we get out of this. We've all learned something about our communities in this, whether you're where you're strong, where you're not, where your relationships are weaker, where your relationships are stronger. And I'm I'm going to make a gross assumption that we all know which restaurants need help and which bars need help and which retailers need help. And we need to do everything we can to help those independent businesses do well as fast as they can because we're a economy based on commerce. And we need to be able to show How that commerce can happen and happen quickly. But there's some fundamental, I'm gonna call them community infrastructure things that I think chambers are uniquely capable of dealing with. That doesn't mean we solve them ourselves, but we're able to bring other leaders together and get our arms wrapped around this these problems that have come up because we don't want them to come up again if there's any kind of a challenge in the community. So
30:26.358 David Brown
I think this is a golden opportunity for chambers to lead the conversation on so what worked and what didn't work and what fundamental parts of our systems here in our community work the way we wanted them to, and which ones do we really need to shore up? And then how do we make sure we provide resources to that before people forget that we had this problem and the resources start going other places? So I I think this is a golden opportunity for chamber execs. To be the convener of conversations about what worked and what didn't. And if it didn't work, why didn't it? And how do we make sure that those resources need to be applied in the in the appropriate way? Let me let me give you an example. We all assume that schools are gonna go back to e learning, and we all assume that every business is gonna be able to do this this kind of a of a video chat or a some kind of a podcast. But then we found out that not everybody had equal access to technology or equal access to Wi-Fi or broadband or just fill in the blank of what it took just to have this technology in place. Well that that's an infrastructure gap that needs to be dealt with if there were gaps in your community, because it's just unevenly distributed. So what can a chamber do about that? You can convene a meeting of the community and figure out a way to make sure that that gap is addressed as one of your top priorities. And there's all kinds of upside to doing that, and there's very little downside to doing that. So identifying those things that worked really well and patting yourselves to the back and make sure that stuff continues. But the stuff that didn't work so well is the place where the chamber can really engage in being that kind of a convener and that kind of a catalytic leader to make sure that plans are put in place to make sure that that problem didn't have.
32:16.65 Brandon Burton
I I love that example of this being you know, an opportunity to see these the the problems. You know, like the like you said, the infrastructure gap. There's there's a way to solve that. And as you convene the the leaders of the community around that, it can be solved. And I totally agree. This is a golden opportunity for chambers throughout the country to really lead, to convene and lead in their community and to be that source that everyone looks to to to see their way through. Yeah, as we start Kind of wrapping things up with with our discussion here, I wanted to ask, based on our discussion today, what might be one tip that you would offer to the chamber professionals listening to help take their chamber up to the next level?
33:03.096 David Brown
So for smaller chambers, the tendency is I think to think most about the members as you mentioned earlier, Brandon, on Main Street. The ones you walk up and down the street every day and you can see if they're doing well or not doing well. and to focus all the attention on your members. And I understand that 'cause we're membership organizations. But I would suggest that there's a That model of only being a merchant's association or only being a downtown association has severe revenue challenges that come along with it. Because those are truly then discretionary expenses for somebody to say, well, I can forego the chamber promoting me for a year if I can't afford the membership. But what if Every chamber exec in the country start thinking about the strategic role that they can play moving forward. And if if you get to a point where people are joining you because of your influence and because of your community-building mission, and because of your ability to help them maybe be more profitable because you've got a pretty aggressive public policy agenda, you don't have to be a huge chamber to do that. You can be a one-person chamber and still engage in a an orientation where you're accomplishing a mission for your members in the community in addition to supporting them as merchants or as businesses. So I would challenge all the chamber execs there to think about your role as a leader in your community. How do you play the role of convener? How do you think about building a mission-oriented membership with your members rather than a transactional one. If you can get away from merely transaction, you'll find some long term members that'll engage and potentially invest in you in ways you never thought of before because they want to see something bigger happen than maybe what you're able to get engaged in the f in the
35:17.606 Brandon Burton
Good advice. Go mission based rather than transaction based for sure. So I asked this question to everyone that I have on the podcast. I like to, as we all try to look in our crystal balls into the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the purpose of chambers moving forward?
35:37.656 David Brown
Well, in large measure I see chambers, if they don't move to a mission based environment, I I I unfortunately don't see a real rosy future for them. I think there's there's so many other ways that members can get the kind of support that they want from us on a transactional basis, that w we we may end up getting to a point where we are irrelevant to moving forward. So I I think no matter how big or small your chamber is, if you're not engaged in making the community better, there'll there will come a time when someone's gonna make a choice about whether or not they wanna write the dues check to you. And you know, frankly, the time is perfect for this. I mean, we are in the midst of a crisis like the world has never seen. And if we are the ones that are perceived as leaders, we will become magnets for more people that want to engage with our organizations. So if we can play that strategic role, that leadership role, I think it's gonna have a a big impact on chambers moving forward. So I see chambers of all sizes and types eventually moving towards a more mission focused on their community because the business community needs to be at the table for those conversations and the chambers the logical place for businesses to engage.
36:59.894 Brandon Burton
Perfect. I think you've shared a lot of great ideas and and some strategies with us today. And I wanted to give you an opportunity, if there's listeners out there that wanted to connect with you or maybe continue this discussion offline, follow up on th something you may have said, what might be the best way for someone to to reach out and and connect with you?
37:22.446 David Brown
Well I'll give you two ways to do that. my email address is dbrown at omahachamber dot org. I'm the only one that reads it, so you can send it to me and I'll be sh certain to get it. I'll be happy to to listen to you if you have a more emergency need or a more urgent need, I should say, and you want to talk, my mobile number is four two six one six four one seven five and I'd be happy to talk to anybody.
37:52.078 Brandon Burton
That's great. I appreciate that. We will get your contact information on the show notes page for this episode as well. So if somebody's out walking their dog while they're listening or probably not driving a car, hopefully it is this is early June. Hopefully they're out driving their car somewhere and going to do some commerce. But that show notes page will be found at chamber chat podcast dot com slash episode seventy one. And David again, and thank you so much for spending time with us today and sharing your leadership with us. I appreciate it.
38:24.364 David Brown
I appreciate the opportunity, Brandon. Take care if you say
38:28.63 Brandon Burton
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This transcript has been lightly edited for readability and to correct obvious transcription errors while preserving the meaning of the original conversation.

Episode 70 — Change Mangement with Liz Horton
Clean Speaker-Labeled Transcript
Guest: Liz Horton
Automated QA: Passed

00:00.15 Brandon Burton
Hey there, just real quick before we get into this episode, this is Brandon, and I just wanted to share a quick message. If you are listening to this, chances are good that you are a chamber professional. And guaranteed, if you're listening to this, you also listen to podcasts. Have you considered creating a podcast for your chamber and all the benefits that that can bring? Check out my free chamber podcasting guide at chamberchatpodcast.com slash podcasting. To learn how you can get started with your own chamber podcast. This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.
00:47.032 Brandon Burton
And now your host, his favorite ice cream was well Rocky Mountain Road, but now he settles for chocolate peanut butter cookie dough. He's my dad, Brandon Burton. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. Thank you for joining us today. This is episode seventy of Chamber Chat Podcast, and I am your host, Brandon Burton. It is my goal to introduce you to people and ideas so you can better serve your chamber members and your community. This week
01:15.018 Brandon Burton
Our guest is Liz Horton, who's the senior vice president of the Greenville Chamber of Commerce in South Carolina. Liz has over 18 years of chamber experience. Just prior to coming to Greenville, South Carolina, she was a CEO of the Kershaw County Chamber of Commerce and Visitor Center, where in 2011 she was named Chamber of Commerce Executive of the Year. For South Carolina by the Carolinas Association of Chamber Commerce Executives. In 2012, Liz graduated from the U.S. Chambers Institute for Organization Management, earning her IOM designation. And in 2014, she received the designation of certified chamber executive of the Carolinas. Liz originally hails from Hanukkah, Virginia, and has been in South Carolina since 1998. She's been married to her husband, Derek, for almost 27 years, and they have a nine-year-old son named Huck. It during our discussion today, we're going to address the topic of change management. And right now, across the country, chambers across the world even are seeing a lot of change that needs to be addressed at their organization. And in our discussion today, we're going to cover some of these strategies about how to implement some change management. And we'll get into this discussion as soon as we get back from hearing from our sponsor.
02:47.128 Brandon Burton
During this time of uncertainty, most chambers are looking for ways to replace funding from events and programs that either been canceled or postponed due to social distancing that does not allow for us to meet as large groups. Another topic that is top of mind for chambers is how to help their member businesses recover from the financial impact their businesses experienced. With these considerations in mind, I want to introduce you to Swipe It. Swipe It offers a credit card processing affinity program for Chambers of Commerce that can help answer your questions about how to replace some of your lost revenue while also allowing for you to serve as an advocate to your member businesses by introducing them to a resource that can save them money on their credit card processing fees so they can become more profitable. Swipe It has been a supporter of Chamber Chat Podcasts from the beginning. And they are the best in the credit card processing business. Visit Chamberchatpodcast.com slash C C, which stands for credit card, to learn how you can get swiping with Swipe It.
04:00.632 Brandon Burton
All right, Liz, we are back. I wanted to welcome you to the show and have you say hello to the audience and share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little bit better.
04:11.81 Liz Horton
Thank you, Brandon. It's great to be with you all today. well I think my bio explained a lot about me, but I am what I call an accidental chamber employee. I don't think anyone sets out to say that they're going to be a chamber exec. And so I fell into this almost nineteen years ago and fell in love with it and have been with it ever since. And this is my fourth chamber over that 19 year period. discovered early on that if I wanted to progress in my career, that I had to be willing to relocate. So my family has made a couple of moves with me over the years. Just recently relocated to the upstate of South Carolina about three and a half years ago and absolutely love it here. but just happy to be with you all today and just a little bit about me personally. I love to cook. and entertain and so a lot of my friends out in the chamber world have been encouraging me to start a chamber blog or a cooking blog. So we'll see if that ever comes about.
05:17.303 Brandon Burton
Yeah, that would be good. I'm sure there'd be some followers that would see what what food inspirations you have to share.
05:26.092 Liz Horton
A tease people, I said we could name it, it's not chambered chicken, right?
05:29.388 Brandon Burton
That's right. Anything but chambered chicken.
05:33.294 Liz Horton
Of course I think I actually kinda miss chamber chicken right now. I think
05:37.952 Brandon Burton
Yeah, I was having a thought just the other day about, you know, right now there's a lot of chamber chicken that's not being eaten. We're we're recording this mid mid-uh April two thousand twenty. So a lot of people are in you know stay-at-home orders and self-quarantine and stuff from COVID nineteen. So a lot of chamber chicken is not being prepared or eaten right now. But so as I kind of alluded to in the
05:58.446 Liz Horton
That's great.
06:04.45 Brandon Burton
what the topic for our discussion is today around change management as this is being recorded in in April twenty twenty. there's obviously a lot of change that will need to be addressed as chambers start getting back to what will be more of a business as usual as doors start opening and businesses start opening up again. And I think there's, you know, some of these self-assessments for organizations to look at and see what they need to do, what the needs of their businesses are. their members and then, you know, what what kind of adjustments they need to make. And some of those adjustments will be made internally as well. But Liz, I know they're at the Greenville chamber, you guys have gone over quite a bit of change recently. Do you want to maybe explain what some of these changes are that you guys have gone over and and we can get into some more detail on some of them?
06:56.878 Liz Horton
Sure. when I took over operations in 2016, I was tasked with overhauling our dues model at the Greenville Chamber. there was a hybrid tiered model that had been put in place but never really fully implemented. So we took a lot of steps and measures getting committees and volunteers together to help us vet our tiered dues structure. and benefits and we implemented implemented that slowly over a two-year period of time. It is now fully implemented and has proven to be very beneficial to our organization, particularly now that we're seeing folks businesses that may be struggling to pay membership dues right now now have options of perhaps switching to another tier level versus dropping altogether. And one of the major changes that we implemented into that was we take we took our private sector fueled economic development initiative, which we call Accelerate, and actually incorporated the funding for that initiative into our tier dues model for the investors that are at the higher levels. and it became easier to sell our mission and vision. And so we started selling more of our higher tier level membership. So our average dues per investor did increase quite drastically over that two-year period as a result. We also implemented a new strategic plan during that time, which now it's actually time to update again. And again, we utilized ad hoc committees and consultants to help us and members to determine who we serve the best. Who we should continue to serve, what programs should we continue to offer? Our team actually goes through an exercise each fall when we're planning for the following year in our budget process, where we take all of our events and programs through an event decision matrix. And you ask a series of questions. Is it vision? Is it on vision? Is it on mission? Does it garner support? Whether it's financial or volunteers or participation.
09:13.89 Liz Horton
Are there others in the community doing similar things? Do you do it better? And then by the time you get to the end of this matrix, you determine whether you should continue doing that event or whether you should end it. And we worked really hard to try to stick to that matrix each year. I know in my history with chambers, there's sometimes a lot of events and programs that people are hesitant to give away or to get rid of because they've been doing them for so long and it's just expected of them. but when you really start looking into all of the staff time and whether it really fits your vision and mission, you have to make a decision should you really be doing those things. and a lot of times they're really not yielding a whole lot of margin once you consider the time that it takes to put that together. we also moved to a new chamber facility this past fall, in November, right before Thanksgiving. we had been The chamber had been housed in a building since 1972 that they owned. And again, we utilized a committee to help us vet whether we should stay in the current facility and do a capital campaign to renovate, which would mean incurring more debt service. And would we get that return back at another 10-15 years, or whether we should tear it down and build new somewhere, or should we actually look at moving? Which is ultimately what the committee decided to do. We actually lease now new space. And that was an interesting process. I actually have a pretty thorough RFP for anyone out there that's looking to do something similar to get a broker. We actually wanted one broker to help us with the disposition of our building as well as finding new a new location. So I have that should anyone ever need it. I actually reached out to a lot of chamber professionals before I started to see if someone already had something and I didn't get any response. So now we do have something and I'm happy to share that with anyone who needs it.
11:20.514 Brandon Burton
We'll we'll be sure to get your contact information in the show notes for this episode. So if anybody wants to reach out to you and we'll we'll have you share that towards the end of the episode as well. But that would be a great resource.
11:32.32 Liz Horton
And of course, as you can imagine, there's been a lot of recent changes with the COVID nineteen developments and making some staffing decisions temporarily till we get through this crisis. So there's just been a lot of changes that we've had to adapt to and You know, just being willing to embrace that change instead of fighting it seem, you know, has helped us. The moving interning facility has been great for us. sad that we're not there to enjoy it right now, but we really did a good space analysis to determine what which of our team members and collaborated more so we could lay out our space more efficiently. and we're now in the heart of our downtown, which is really nice. So
12:18.838 Brandon Burton
That is nice. I always think it's good when you can s have a presence for a chamber of commerce downtown. It it's not always feasible, but where when it is possible, I think it really helps. so you had mentioned with the strategic plan, kind of taking a look at some of those events and everything, and and I know it's important to barbecue some of those sacred cows every now and then. And I although I know South Carolina barbecue is pig, so I'll I'll respect that. But
12:48.546 Liz Horton
Barbecue isn't so bad either.
12:50.4 Brandon Burton
That's right. That's right. so as you went about the the strategic plan, for example, was there any changes with staffing as you looked at the the new strategic plan or were things able to stay kind of in order how they were as regarding staff?
13:08.27 Liz Horton
For the most part, we did do some realigning of duties to fit more in line with our strategic structure and plan. And we do strength finders with our staff, Clifton Strength Finders. I know a lot of organizations are doing that now. And we work really hard to try to focus on the strengths and talents of our team members and to put them in positions to where they can apply those strengths better. so we did modify some positions. and just did a little bit of restructuring. So we did have some staff changes in the beginning and have since then added some new positions. We now have a workforce and talent solutions director, which is really part of our accelerate economic development initiative. we split up how we do our Membership development and engagement. We actually have dedicated retention managers, one for members who are in their first through third year of investment versus those who have been with us for three years or longer. So that has those were some of the changes that came out of our strategic planning process. And another thing was also when we determined what types of businesses we serve the best, we actually, for lack of a better word, profiled our membership to determine what types of businesses. have been with us the longest and also invest at the higher dollar amount. And so now we focus our recruiting on those sectors of businesses. it's not that we turn away anyone who's not in those sectors. It's just that our recruitment efforts are more focused on the types of businesses that we know that we serve the best and have been with us the longest.
14:51.722 Brandon Burton
You're able to listen to your data and and worked work smart around the data. so this question, hopefully without rocking the boat or anything too much, with these changes or with the the COVID nineteen being kind of top of mind for everybody at the moment, have there been any changes that you see on the horizon for your chamber that you could speak to that You may need to to address or or things to consider for other chambers to consider as they look forward trying to get through this in the recovery efforts.
15:29.262 Liz Horton
Well, for us, I mean we had a f a fairly large team compared to a lot of chambers. I think one thing I guess I didn't share in the beginning, our chamber is about nineteen hundred investors. our community is about sixty eight thousand in the city and about a little over five hundred thousand in our county. And we had twenty six staff members prior to the COVID nineteen outbreak. effective yesterday, we did have to temporarily furlough some of our team members, eight of them actually. It is our hope that we won't have to go deeper than that. And the way we made the decision on which staff would fall into that furlough group were the ones that had the most in-person contact, I I guess you'd say, for lack of a better word, with investors like our front desk team. Now that we're working remotely, we don't have customers coming into our office. our team members, we have one team member who manages all of our communities that come to our community for inter-community leadership visits. of course, we're not doing those right now because travel has been suspended. so we looked at those everyone's job. We looked to see what their responsibilities were to make that determination and all the also. The ones who would be kept the most whole with the unemployment. And it was very important to us that we were able to continue to provide health benefits during this time as well, which is why we chose the furlough versus layoff. And it is our hope that we can bring everyone back eventually. So those were some difficult decisions. What we're working on now is a plan for how we will phase back in our operations. In-person versus teleworking. I imagine we'll still be doing a lot of teleworking for a while. but what does it look like when we do return? Is it staggered staff hours? do we split our staff? So I'm working on that plan as we speak. and then just hygiene measures, annotation practices, how we handle in-person meetings and events.
17:48.448 Liz Horton
And then we're going to have a thorough discussion soon about all of our events because a lot of them we've postponed in the fall, but we know we're not going to be able to do all of them. So our next steps will be determining which events we continue to do, which ones we conduct virtually. are there opportunities for us to combine some things? so we are working through those plans as we speak. and also just the revenue model has changed. A lot of our
17:54.062 Brandon Burton
Yeah.
18:16.824 Liz Horton
programming that'll be delivered digitally, how do we price those and figure out how do we ask for sponsorship dollars at this time. So we're working through all of those things as we speak and creating plans that go along with the guidelines that have been passed down to us from CDC and the White House for this phased approach.
18:25.88 Brandon Burton
Mm-hmm.
18:43.768 Liz Horton
But we understand, I mean, we're gonna have to change venue sizes for a lot of our events to allow for adequate spacing. so there's gonna be a lot of changes that we're gonna have to deal with in the coming months.
18:54.636 Brandon Burton
For sure. I I know I keep reminding myself that you know, through this crisis that money doesn't disappear. And it may be good for your, you know, business members to realize that too. It doesn't disappear, it just changes direction. So it's finding where the money's landing. And you talked about finding those sponsors for these digital delivery systems of events and so forth. And and there's some businesses that are doing really well through this. And then obviously a lot that are not. But some some businesses I think would be jumping at the opportunity to to sponsor something like that. So it it is a a change of thought process and maybe mindset of how we go about doing things, but definitely things to keep on the radar as we try to navigate our way through. So
19:46.374 Liz Horton
And identifying those companies that are not necessarily struggling right now. we've actually had a quite a few investors join in the past week online. And it's interesting to see the types of companies that are joining right now versus the ones that we're having to offer, you know, temporary deferments to. everyone knows retail and restaurant industry is the one that's hurt the most right now. Yes.
20:12.494 Brandon Burton
So I think that is that is something of value. I is there a couple business segments that stood out to you that have been joining recently?
20:21.374 Liz Horton
cleaning companies. that one sticks out to me the most. and then IT companies, you know, companies that provide IT services during this time.
20:23.522 Brandon Burton
Yes.
20:33.55 Brandon Burton
Sure.
20:34.968 Liz Horton
So I think that now that folks have been used to utilizing all of these various platforms, whether it's Zoom or Microsoft Teams, I'm not sure that that's going to go away even once we get back to or adjust to this new normal. I think people are going to find ways to continue to use and grow that. I imagine that we'll
20:57.132 Brandon Burton
Yeah. I think Go ahead.
21:01.944 Liz Horton
I imagine we'll also con see continue to see a lot more teleworking.
21:06.19 Brandon Burton
Yeah. I think there's a segment of the population that'll be anxious to get back to the in person, you know, face to face. And then there's a certain segment that really is digging this, you know, whole remote working and zoom calls and everything. And it'll be hard to put that toothpaste back in the tube, if you know what I mean. Now that people can see they can be effective at home, it'll be a shift for sure. So as we look at these different changes.
21:31.032 Liz Horton
Yes.
21:35.394 Brandon Burton
that the Greenville Chamber's gone through and and the experience you've had in the, you know, your eighteen years or so in the the chamber industry. Are there certain strategies that you employ when you go about change to make sure that the process goes through smoothly and with the the least amount of hiccups possible?
21:55.246 Liz Horton
You know, we we utilize ad hoc committees. And the reason I like ad hoc is because they have a beginning and an end and a specific purpose and objectives. But we make sure that we have good representation and diversity on those committees. For example, when we put together our facilities committee to make the decision whether we decided to sell our building or stay. we included folks that were in favor of us moving and then also those who had expressed concern or you know thoughts that they we should stay where we were to make sure that we had these varying diverse opinions on this committee and then made sure that we provided them with all of the data to make a really informed decision. So we worked with our investors who were in architectural design, space planning, and had them put together like in construction companies, like the quotes. This is what it's gonna look like if you decide to do option A and stay here. Here's how much it's going to cost. So providing them with the data so that they felt good about the decision that they made. And then also having this committee made up of various board members and members. made it easier when they brought a recommendation to our full board. The board felt comfortable voting, knowing that it had been vette vetted and it was based on data and information. and then at times when we need to to utilize consultants to help us gather that t data and information or just to bring it all together, we did utilize that We recently took all of our leadership development programming through what we call a reimagine process. It took us about 18 months. But we vetted each individual leadership development offering that we had and determined whether we should continue doing it, what we needed to add, where the gaps were. And we utilized a consultant to help us, but we had focus groups with alumni, with investors who send people through our programs and companies that don't.
24:14.702 Liz Horton
We talk to CEOs of big Fortune 500 companies and small businesses. What do you look for in a leader or when you're planning to promote someone within what type of skills training do you need for your team members that they're not currently getting elsewhere? And then we took that and built a whole strategic framework just around our leadership development programming. And so we have a lot of we have a three-year strategic plan just for. That particular department that we're now working on rolling out. But it's a matter of just pulling the right people together to help you gather the data, have different perspectives and points of view, conducting focus groups and interviews and surveys. And again, I go back to the data, just utilizing it. I think a lot of us we collect it, sometimes we just don't know what to do with it.
25:06.858 Brandon Burton
Yeah. In fact I was wondering even along the lines of data, at some point the data will will play into your dis decision making process of whether or not you need to implement change and what that change might be, depending on how you can interpret that data. Whether it's approaching a new strategic plan or staff realignments or the membership models or whatever it may be, that data can tell you some of that feedback of how to approach some of those next moves you need to make at your chamber. It's not just, hey, I've got an idea and then go and run with it. Although sometimes I'm sure that's how stuff may start, but then you can look at the data for support. But I think it is so key to get those stakeholders involved, those that are even of opposing views, just to to kind of flesh out the whole thought process and make sure that there's buy in from both sides and and make sure there's a a good consensus to be able to move forward and And then those people that maybe are opposed to it originally can turn into some you know type of an advocate for support for the chamber as they explain it to other businesses that are maybe not as excited about the change. So I think those are all really good points to to incorporate with your your change management. are there any other types of strategies that you like to think about or or try to employ as you go about? It maybe about communicating. I you probably need to get specific on what the change is, but any strategies around communication of ideas as change is happening?
26:48.794 Liz Horton
yeah, we found that that was key. we conduct a annual engagement survey with our team members every year as well. And one of the key areas is communication. anytime that you are, you know, we try to communicate with our stakeholders up front, this is what we're doing, this is why. And then along the way, this is what we have discovered based on the focus groups and the surveys, and here's how we're taking this information, and here's what the new plan looks like. So that they feel like that they have been a part of it and that we actually took the data that they gave us and the information that they gave us and we're actually doing something with it. so we did communicate out to the focus groups, just as an example, on our leadership alumni that participated. We did communicate back out to those folks. we heard you, here's what we're doing. and that helps. I mean, you do get, like you said, you get buy in that way. Even folks who had, like you said, had been naysayers, once they start seeing all of the facts and the data, realize, you know, even though they might have an emotional tie to something, it doesn't make sense financially or for the chamber's long-term success to to do, you know, to keep this twenty-four thousand square foot building with all these maintenance issues. And and we really had some key objectives when we set out for that, for example. And that's another thing we always try to. create is what begin with the end in mind, of course, everyone's heard that, but what are the key objectives or goals? And one of our goals in looking at the building, we really wanted our investors' funds to go to mission-centric initiatives, not into a building. So that was very key for us. We also wanted to have be a best place to work for our chamber team. We wanted to be closer to our core business district. we also wanted to better position the chamber financially for the future. And I'll be honest, the sale of our building and the move could not have happened at a better time because with everything that's going on right now, that could have made a lot of our decision making recently even more burdensome. So
29:05.654 Brandon Burton
Yeah. I love that thought that you wanted the the majority of the funds to go to your the goals of your mission rather than just keeping up an old building. I think that's so important to really value the funds that are coming in and think what's the best return for the membership and for the community to really get the most out of that. So that's a a great great perspective to to look with the end in mind. So As we start to kind of wrap things up here, I think you've covered and touched on several key things here. I know with regards to the effective communication, recently I had Sherry Ann Kelly from ACCE on the on the podcast. And she had mentioned how a lot of chambers around the country are calling all of their members to check in to see how they're doing, you know, what the impact is on them, financial impact and And really getting a pulse through their business community with a with a phone call. And I thought that is so amazing. You know, it's so easy to send out a survey and people can click, you know, if they bother opening the email. I know a lot of emails get ignored, but to make that phone call and show the care that the chamber has for each business, especially with the changes that will be coming up, that can really help guide what changes that that your organization needs to make. by getting that effective communication and feedback from your members. But Liz, as we as we wrap up though, I wanted to ask you, based on our discussion today, is there maybe a an action item or piece of advice that you can share with the chamber professionals that are listening that they can do to help take their chamber up to the next level?
30:55.191 Liz Horton
I would I would just advise that nothing should be left off the table. When it comes to your programming and what you're providing to your investors in your community, it's I liken it to when you're selling a membership, for example. I could list a hundred reasons why I think someone should join the chamber, for example. But if I don't listen to to what their pain points are or what they're looking for and then pick out the items that we are doing that could address their concerns, I'm not gonna be as effective. And so I feel like it's the same way with all of our program offerings. sometimes we think it's, you know, would be good and this is what people want. And then you do it and you don't get engagement. Or you've just been doing it for so long and by the time you put your staff time into it, your margins are just not there. I really just think that you need to take a a holistic look at your entire portfolio and don't be afraid to make those changes and get the feedback and you know, get rid of some of those sacred cows for lack of better word. because it really will make your organization better for it and more relevant to the people that you are serving.
32:20.214 Brandon Burton
I love that. You've got a hundred reasons why somebody should join the chamber, but really there's only one reason that they need that is pertinent to them and their situation. So listen to see what that need is, and then customize your approach to helping and supporting that business. That's
32:36.559 Liz Horton
And then everything else you offer is just icing on the cake. So
32:40.364 Brandon Burton
Right. That's right. So Liz, as we look to the future, how do you see chambers of commerce and their purpose going forward?
32:51.16 Liz Horton
Well, I think we are on the cusp of a wonderful opportunity to truly be and do what we say we are. you know, our mission is to lead, convene, and mobilize our business community to drive regional economic growth. I really feel like we have an opportunity to create programs and resources and opportunities to actually lead that effort.
33:22.112 Liz Horton
I see all of these recent changes as an opportunity. We're really going to be able to do what we say that we our purpose is. A lot of businesses are going to be struggling coming out of this. What can we do to help them reopen and restaff? And how do we build consumer confidence and confidence that they're going to be safe when they shop in someone's business? So we have a wonderful opportunity to communicate. we recently conducted a f a member wide survey of companies about how this COVID-19 has impacted them and narrowed it down basically to four C's, you know, cash, whether that is access to capital or what can we do from a regulatory standpoint to give them some relief when it comes to taxes and things of that nature. Customers, how do we get customers back in their doors? How do we build confidence? that consumer confidence and then communication. So I think we have a wonderful opportunity right now to be what we say we are.
34:29.798 Brandon Burton
I absolutely. I think there's never been another time in in recent history at least for chambers to show just how relevant they are. So I think it's a a great time and an opportunity for lack of a better word to really showcase what the chamber can do for their business community. So Liz, I wanted to to thank you for spending time with us today here on ChamberThat Podcast and give you an opportunity to share your contact information. If anyone listening wanted to reach out to you. Yeah, with questions or follow up to continue this discussion offline, how might they best get in contact with you?
35:07.342 Liz Horton
Sure, my email would probably be the fastest way is L Horton H O R T O N at Greenvillechamber dot org. And of course I'm still receiving messages via phone, so eight six two three nine three seven two three.
35:29.292 Brandon Burton
All right. And we will get that updated in the show notes page for this episode, which will be found at Chamberchat Podcast dot com slash episode seventy. And again, L Liz, I appreciate you taking time. I know you know we're both working from home at the moment and juggling multiple hats. So I appreciate you taking the time to to step away and and spend time with us on Chamber Chat Podcast. I think you Provided some good value and perspective for everyone listening.
36:01.006 Liz Horton
Thank you, Brandon.
36:04.918 Brandon Burton
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This transcript has been lightly edited for readability and to correct obvious transcription errors while preserving the meaning of the original conversation.

Episode 69 — Digital Talent Attraction with Toby Teeter
Clean Speaker-Labeled Transcript
Guest: Toby Teeter
Automated QA: Passed

00:00.108 Brandon Burton
Hey there, just real quick before we get into this episode, this is Brandon, and I just wanted to share a quick message. If you are listening to this, chances are good that you are a chamber professional. And guaranteed, if you're listening to this, you also listen to podcasts. Have you considered creating a podcast for your chamber and all the benefits that that can bring? Check out my free chamber podcasting guide at chamberchatpodcast.com/slash podcasting. to learn how you can get started with your own chamber podcast. Now let's get into the show. This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.
00:48.766 Brandon Burton
And now your host, his favorite baseball player was Ricky Henderson. He's my dad, Brandon Burton. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. This is Brandon Burton, your host, and it is my goal to help introduce you to people and ideas so you can better serve your chamber members and your community. We're here today with episode sixty-nine, and my guest today on the podcast is Toby Teeter. He's the president of the Joplin Area Chamber of Commerce. And he's he's been the president of the Joplin Area Chamber since December of 2018. Toby's also the founder of Urban Cycling Apparel and LocalRaces.com. Previously, he was a lead investor and developer of the Griffin Building Development. Prior to that, Toby was president, general counsel, and founder of Litmus Media, which is a DBA valid click. A twenty seven million dollar online ad network based in Kansas City. After Inuvo acquired ValidClick, he served as Inuvo's VP of Strategic Partnerships and Corporate Counsel, heading mergers and acquisitions. Prior to Valid Click, Toby was a business development manager and corporate attorney at Ad Knowledge, an online behavioral marketing pioneer. The Balance of his career includes stints as a lobbyist, litigation attorney, and a corporate attorney. Toby earned a B.S. in insurance and risk management from Missouri State University and a JD from the University of Missouri School of Law. Toby is married to Ashley Teeter, and they have a blended family of six children. He enjoys cycling, running, and volunteering at his wife's endurance event productions, including the Joplin Turkey Trot. Joplin Ugly Sweater Run and the Joplin St. Patrick's Day 5K and 15K. Toby has competed in both triathlons and marathons, including the 2012 Chicago Triathlon, 2013 Chicago Marathon, the 2014 Boston Marathon, and the 2015 New York City Marathon. Today is we have Toby on the show. He is kind of a digital ad expert.
03:14.58 Brandon Burton
And our topic that we'll discuss today is around digital talent attraction. And we'll look forward to getting into this discussion as soon as we get back from hearing from our sponsor.
03:29.326 Brandon Burton
During this time of uncertainty, most chambers are looking for ways to replace funding from events and programs that either been canceled or postponed due to social distancing that does not allow for us to meet as large groups. Another topic that is top of mind for chambers is how to help their member businesses recover from the financial impact their businesses experienced. With these considerations in mind, I want to introduce you to Swipe It. Swipe It offers a credit card processing affinity program for Chambers of Commerce that can help answer your questions about how to replace some of your lost revenue while also allowing for you to serve as an advocate to your member businesses by introducing them to a resource that can save them money on their credit card processing fees so they can become more profitable. Swipe It has been a supporter of Chamber Chat Podcasts from the beginning. And they are the best in the credit card processing business. Visit chamberchatpodcast.com slash cc, which stands for credit card, to learn how you can get swiping with swipe it. All right, Toby, we are back. If you would take a moment to say hello to the audience and share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little bit better.
04:52.896 Toby Teeter
You bet. Hello, Chamber audience. well, one tidbit is I am a former White House intern. people get a kick out of that. I was there with Monica Lewinsky back in ninety six and two years later during law school I had a visit from the FBI and the rest is history.
05:11.182 Brandon Burton
Wow, it is history, right?
05:14.562 Toby Teeter
Very poor scrumpy, yes.
05:16.832 Brandon Burton
Yeah. That is that is interesting. I asked for that interesting fact about people, but that is that is one I would not have expected. So if you would tell us a little bit more about the Joplin Chamber, so we can all get an idea of the perspective that you're coming from and kind of how you're managing things there at the the Joplin area chamber of commerce.
05:40.994 Toby Teeter
Yeah, so the Joplinary Chamber of Commerce has been around for 103 years. It's an institution of our community. Joplin is about 52,000 people that sleep here. About but we have about 250,000 people live here. It's kind of hard to explain, but we have a lot of feeder bedroom communities into Joplin. So during the day, you'll see about a quarter million people here on the grid. And the Joplinary Chamber of Commerce operates with about a staff of 10 people. we have a budget of around 1.2, maybe 1.3 million a year. we function as a typical chamber, but we also operate an incubator where we have space for startups. And we also have a training center that we are also the landlord of, where our anchor tenant is a local trade school, as well as a number of other affiliated businesses there that that that do. advanced production of of of of manufacturing items. And so that's in essence kinda how we operate. Again, about a quarter million in population we serve, it's an area chamber, ten employees and about one point three million in budget.
06:55.134 Brandon Burton
All right. I like that. The the incubator and the the training center kind of kind of flows over into our topic today of digital talent attraction, focusing more on the talent part of it where you guys are helping to develop talent at the training center and kind of having them as a anchor in that building, as well as the the incubator you talked about. But with your background, obviously with digital media and advertising, I'm excited to to get some of these insights that you have to share with the chamber world about digital talent attraction. I know chambers all over the country are trying to attract talent and showcase their city and why their their place is a place for workers to want to be and to live and work and and all of that. So if you would, let's let's kind of dive into that topic and tell me kind of what you guys are doing in Joplin to take advantage of talent attraction digitally.
07:54.082 Toby Teeter
Yeah, absolutely. So my my background is online marketing and you know I've always marketed physical products. and now that I'm the chamber president here in Joplin, our product that we're trying to sell is Joplin, both for business attraction and talent attraction. so what we've done here is we developed an online portal. It's not the chamber website, although the chamber beh is behind the curtain that that put it together. But we developed a a a website called choosejoplin.com. So choose Joplin.com is simply a talent and business attraction portal that gives us an opportunity to tell our story, explains why you should move to Joplin, why you belong to Joplin. it's it's heavy in graphic videos and photography about our community. And we highlight the livability here, the restaurants, the active lifestyle, the hiking, the fishing, the lakes. the cost of living, and so on. And we've also developed a deep library of video vignettes in the 30 second to two minute range where we talk about different livability objectives. We talk about our our religious faith-based communities here, our active lifestyle opportunities, our educational opportunities here. We have several universities in in our city. and we we're doing very very strategic ways of distributing this content. and what's what what people get really excited about, what makes this project different, is our ability to retarget. How that works is we do cooperative advertising campaigns, partially funded by the city of Joplin, as well as large employers in our community. And what that entails is when people are looking at job opportunities in Joplin. they're being retargeted, meaning during the next two or three weeks, on their Facebook and in that's about Joplin. so simply being a physician in Cleveland, you're looking at a physician opportunity at a local hospital here in Joplin. And then for the the the following weeks you'll start seeing video vignettes about Joplin and why you belong in Joplin. And we also target
10:18.156 Toby Teeter
by your demographic data and your interest groups. So if you are a cyclist or a runner, we'll talk about our trail system. if you are a a Muslim, we'll talk about being the smallest city in the United States with a mos. and and so we're able to pull these content based on your demographic data and do really, really targeted data. And the bottom line of the messaging here is is we have everything you want here. We just don't have you. And and so we we kind of fire all these kind of micro targeted ad campaigns based on your demographic data and and your background. And we work with our largest employers by simply adding two lines of code on their their their job portals. so when people are looking at the positions in our town, it activates the marketing campaign that we're we're managing under the choose Joplin banner.
11:12.344 Brandon Burton
So I love that you're partnering with the the major employers and that they're working with you to get that code on their websites to then, you know, reinforce what Joplin's about to bring the sport talent there. how have you guys gone about developing those relationships to be able to say, you know, here's the idea, here's how we implement it? How do you take them through that process?
11:33.506 Toby Teeter
Yeah, so we we mapped out our largest one hundred employers. So we're kinda doing a top down approach. we we mapped out on a spreadsheet our largest hundred employers. we did our digging and and found out where the job path you know, basically the the funnel, if you were to look at job opportunities at those hundred employers, what which web pages you're landing on. And then we worked through their HR departments, through our their contacts and and simply give them a a packet of information. where they can better understand this opportunity to partner with us and give them the content they need to pass to their technical teams to implement this remarketing pixel. the the the the technology we're using is very typical to e-commerce where you install a remarketing pixel it's it's basically one line of code that allows us to kind of target abandonments. the The e-commerce equivalent of this is when you're looking at golf clubs on a website and then those golf clubs follow you around for two weeks. We're doing the same thing with our city, the city of Joplin, with this, you know, with the graphic content and videos. and then the learn more, the basically the follow-up takes you back into the choose Joplin portal.
12:48.172 Brandon Burton
So when you do these these tracking pixels, are you choosing specific I mean, Facebook seems pretty obvious. Are there other tracking pixels? And for someone who may not be as familiar with tracking pixels, how do you get Where do you get from? I mean, just yeah.
13:06.486 Toby Teeter
Well if you s if you set up an advertising account on Facebook, you have the opportunity of getting a a pixel assigned to you. and they Facebook is very good at explaining how how to install it. but if you have a an ad account on Facebook, the your distribution is across the Facebook network that includes Instagram. So your advertising can go to both Facebook, Instagram, and their offline network, basically an ad network across across the web that that technology supports. The other large bucket is Google itself. Again, you can add one line of code from your Google ad account, and that gets you on Google search and display networks. So the the two major networks that you want to play with are is Facebook and Google. But between them that'll get you coverage and on hundreds of websites.
13:59.382 Brandon Burton
So earlier you had mentioned the the demographics. You know, if you're a runner, you'll highlight the the trails. If you're a outdoorsman, you'll highlight the lakes. If you're Muslim, the mosque. I mean, so how do those demographics get pulled in? Is that from their social media page or are you needing to collect information somewhere else?
14:19.638 Toby Teeter
Facebook and Google has all the information that we need. so how this works is is Facebook itself knows what websites do you visit, your demographic data, your age, your gender. and so we're able to piggyback on that data. so so that's how that works. it it's it's the same how e-commerce works with with those ad networks. you know, besides doing the remarketing pixel, there's other types of advertising campaigns that we've initiated. for instance, on holiday weekends, whether it be Easter, Fourth of July, Thanksgiving, and Christmas, what we do is we ramp up an ad campaign where the target is people visiting Joplin but don't live in Joplin. So the ad target is people that are within a 10 mile radius of Joplin but live outside of a 50 mile radius of Joplin. We are purposely targeting people coming here to visit family. again, the lowest hanging fruit, the highest conversion is is people that grew up here and moved away. And if we can get them to move back to Joplin to grow our economy, th that is a that's a low hanging fruit. And we particularly are are targeting holiday weekends with that out of campaign.
15:37.102 Brandon Burton
That's a great idea. I love that. Fo I mean, I've seen that before with the the certain radius, yeah, if you're ten miles within or or fifty miles out. But to be able to focus that down to holiday weekends, you are going to get those people that are there to see family and kind of the maybe the sense of nostalgia if they've, you know, lived in the city before and they wonder how they can get back and then they start seeing these ads about how they can do it.
16:02.134 Toby Teeter
Absolutely. And everyone, you know, like many towns, Joplin has really transformed over the last fifteen, twenty years, our downtown and and and so on. but what happens is when you have people that grew up here in the eighties or nineties, their their view of Joplin is very dated. They don't understand how you know, the food truck scene and the coffee culture scene and all these things are happening here and they just assume i it's not. and it's that It so we also can adjust the content that we're displaying on those on those weekends. So if you're a thirty year old coming back to Joplin to visit your parents on Thanksgiving, you know, we can show the new Joplin, the the things that are really relevant to that demographic and that age group. to we can talk about our food truck scenes, our live music scenes, the the coffee culture, kind of all the hipster stuff that's now happening at Joplin that that they assume isn't. so it's it's a great opportunity again to to rebrand Joplin.
16:59.288 Brandon Burton
So I'm just curious, at any given time, how many different ad campaigns do you have going out with how customized you get with some of these? Do you have an idea off the top of your head?
17:12.582 Toby Teeter
Yeah, so it the we we can have dozens of ad campaigns running at once at very low volume. you can control your budgets by by day or by month. but we we have numerous campaigns running at at once and then we ramp up some other ones on the holiday weekends. as we film this, we're heading towards Easter and we're we're actually ramping it up for this Easter break, for for the the retargeting, targeting people visiting Joplin.
17:43.412 Brandon Burton
So you'd mentioned you have a a staff of ten. how is it staff that are coming up with the ad campaigns? Are they are you partnering with member businesses or how are you doing the development of these campaigns?
17:59.032 Toby Teeter
Sure. So the job the city of Joplin outsources its economic development to the chamber through a contract. we have convinced the powers that be that economic development is both business and talent attraction at this point. so we've successfully budgeted with city dollars our ability to co fund the development of this campaign on the front end. And then we outsourced to a couple of local ad agencies the video production we're using to use for for content on choosejoplin.com and for these outbound advertising campaigns. And so we we're outsourcing kind of the the the the the content creation and the video creation, but we do have a communications team in-house. That includes obviously with my background, I'm I'm directly involved in this effort, but we also have a communications director that's quickly learning these kind of e-commerce rebranding of Joplin ad campaign projects. And we also have two interns that we've kind of trained up that help us with both some of the graphics, some of the cop copy and the the paid ad campaign management.
19:21.44 Brandon Burton
All right. as you were talking about that how you go about outsourcing it, I was reminded, I don't know if you're familiar with with Dane Maxwell. He's kind of a marketing wizard himself, I guess, but he's he's got a a podcast that I listen to and he talks a lot about new businesses as they develop, and a lot of people start a business with an idea and they aren't thinking about the customer so much, but they've got this new widget or service or something, and they want to push this idea, but they don't really know who the customer is. And he has this kind of a three-step process for a new business. He says first you need it to find the customer, then you need to define what the desired outcome is for the customer, and then create the mechanism to to provide that desired outcome. And he says that he outsources so you find the the customer, desired outcome, and then outsource the mechanism. And then you're able to turn out, you know, over and over, which is Kind of what you're doing with this digital marketing campaign is your customers, you're saying if you're 30 years old, if you used to live here, you're visiting on a holiday weekend, you know, you're very defining, very definitive, I should say, of who the customer is, what the desired outcome would be is for them to move to Joplin to become employed in Joplin, and then you're outsourcing that mechanism to be able to get those ads in front of them. So I mean, as you were saying this, I'm like, you guys you're following Dane Maxwell's formula and you don't even know it.
20:52.686 Toby Teeter
I guess that's true. You y you know what you know and you outsource the rest.
20:57.058 Brandon Burton
That's right. That's right. so how good is this choose Joplin dot com website? Like if we go visit it, are we all gonna in about two to three weeks find ourselves with a a job in Joplin and finding ourselves loading a UHL?
21:11.874 Toby Teeter
Joplin will suck you in. I I will I will take a minute to talk about business attraction and how we use the this. So we're doing very traditional economic development as well, using the choose Joplin branding to attract businesses. Very similar process. We operate other websites that actually talk about things like our industrial park. If you hit our industrial park website. Or if you're looking at industrial listings, sites, the qualified sites in our region, we can actually turn on and and talk about the videos that talk about br you know why you should have your business in Joplin. We talk about our distribution network, our access to markets, our interstate, our rail, our our commercial airport, our cost of living, the least expensive place to have manufacturing workers. and so you know the you know what we're really talking about here is we're talking about what makes your community different, talk talking about branding your community and then creating webs web assets to tell that story.
22:25.814 Brandon Burton
I love it. I mean it's the same very similar to what you're doing with the the the talent, the workforce you're trying to bring in, but just targeting the different websites, right? That these businesses would be looking at.
22:38.87 Toby Teeter
Our just case in point, the big story in the last couple of weeks with Joplin is I had a little give and take on Teslas looking at the Midwest for a site to have their next gigafactory where they'll be manufacturing both the batteries and the trucks themselves for the Cybertruck project. I had a tweet that was liked by over a thousand times. It kind of went viral. And it evolved into a formal presentation to Tesla. And so we're kind of in play now, competing against much larger markets across the Midwest for the new Gigafactory. Again, how Choose Joplin comes into play is we actually do our throwdown publicly. if you go to choose Joplin.com/slash Tesla, you'll actually see your offer. it's a billion dollar package. we're talking about a thousand-acre site, we're talking about a low-cost workforce. we're talking about incentives. and we compare ourselves to Nashville on that page and we show that Tesla would save over eight hundred million dollars just in payroll over the first twelve years as part of our proposal. And so it's an opportunity to kind of thump our chest a little bit and and allow us to tell our story directly to Tesla on the web and reference that that landing page.
24:03.778 Brandon Burton
That is really cool. And that's a a big name too to thump your chest over. So congratulations. so I know, you know, before people go too far down a rabbit hole, they were gonna want to know what's the what's the return on investment, both the monetarily and the time to to implement some of these strategies. What kind of success are you seeing? And I mean, the Tesla example is is is good, but what other maybe success stories can you share from From these efforts you're making. Yeah.
24:34.486 Toby Teeter
Absolutely. So the the development of the website and the initial videos were on Chamber Dollar and the City of Joplin Dollar. But going forward, and it's already happening, we're working with our major employers to actually co-fund this cooperative ad campaign. How I explain this to our employers is we allow we tell them you focus on selling your job opportunity and your in your institution, your your business or your hospital or your university. but if you want to sell Joplin, reference chooseJoplin.com. And so it it's truly as a partnership where we're allowing us to to sell the the the city. You know, what what economic development is to the city of Joplin is we we have a medical school here. So we're trying to attract med students from all over the world to Joplin. And we're competing against much larger markets. So if you're a 25-year-old looking at med school opportunities, we're competing against you know, much larger markets, Chicago, Kansas City, St. Louis, just in the Midwest, for instance. and it's really hard to explain why they should choose Joplin without showing them. And this is just kind of a way to explain that. But back to your question, it this is very, very cost efficient. we are reaching hundreds of thousands of people that are actively deciding whether or not to move to our community. They're looking at school opportunities. employment opportunities, they're visiting family here. There's so many buckets where y you can actually qualify to start seeing this content. It's very, very timely. dollar for dollar, it's by far the most efficient way of branding and telling your story at the right place at the right time to the right people that are activing whether or not to move to Joplin or move their business to Joplin.
26:21.944 Brandon Burton
That's awesome. I just the the world we live in today with the technology and being able to to focus advertising like this is something else. I mean, for somebody that comes from a a background, you know, before maybe 10, 15 years before now, it's a whole different world as to how you can target these these ads that you put out there and really tell this tell the story of your city. I mean, I think this is a a great example of how you guys are doing things there in Joplin. so one thing I like to ask is kind of based on our discussion today and kind of the experiences that you're having, what would be maybe a piece of advice that you could encourage the chamber professionals that are listening that they could do to help take their chamber up to the next level and and maybe showcasing their city?
27:15.148 Toby Teeter
Yeah, one thing that we've done here at the at Joplin is that's really, really resonated is we changed who the hero of the story is. we had a an institution here, you know, this chamber where it's very, very proud of the history of winning awards. and we really shifted the focus away from the chamber and started really celebrating the entrepreneurs, the risk takers of our community as the heroes of the story. So we've really downplayed the brand. Joplinary Chamber of Commerce, and we upplayed Joplin, business leaders, and really shifted and tried to tell their story. ChooseJoplin.com is actually a perfect example. This is a chamber initiative, but you do not see our name or logo anywhere on that website. We are talking about the heroes of the story are the entrepreneurs, the business leaders, the risk takers that really have have defined the city of Joplin. And so the one one takeaway I would like to give is is really think through are you painting yourself, your institution, your chamber as the hero of the story, and maybe rethink that. and really, you know, use this as a your your institution as a platform to tell their stories and shift the focus and let them be the hero and let the chamber itself be the guide.
28:35.226 Brandon Burton
I think that's that's sound advice. I know it's y you hear the one argument about how chambers need to brag more about themselves, which I think there's a way of doing that without necessarily putting the spotlight just on you. which is, you know, things like going back to choose chopin dot com is you're able to to showcase the city itself, you're able to showcase those business leaders and they know It's the chamber that that's driving it. So I think that's a that's good piece of advice. so th this question I ask everyone that I have on the show is as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see their purpose going forward?
29:22.77 Toby Teeter
That's a that's a great question. You know, my background's unique because I am not a traditional chamber president. I'm actually an entrepreneur all up until about eighteen months ago. so I come from the trenches of of owning a business. and I I've now seen kind of you know, the chamber both from the point of view as as a a chamber member and and now a a leading a chamber. I I think the chamber institution is going to change over time. and it already has. economic development is is about adding dollars to your community and getting more of those circulated. and so I I I think the transitions you're gonna see is I think online presence is gonna change. the the educational series, we're we're we're we're developing a thing called Chamber Academy here. and we are doing more Zoom classes even before the COVID crisis happened. we're doing more and more online things as far as online EDU. We're recording all of our content and distributing it freely online. we have a lot of education business education classes that you can subscribe to as a member for free. we we're we're really focused on talent attraction and business attraction, which is another pivot that's happening across the United States. where more and more people are understanding that it the the the great migration of jobs is following young professionals. and so we're really, really focused on bringing back our young professionals to Joplin or bringing more young professionals to Joplin. And so I think those are kind of the the the shifts that we're seeing is leveraging technology, branding your city, and and focusing both on talent and business attraction.
31:16.438 Brandon Burton
Yeah. I think that's good insight. I think especially with a younger workforce coming, I see that shift, you know, more of the the the Zoom and the the young professionals and kind of making that be a focus for sure. Yep. Well, Toby, I wanted to thank you for spending time with us today here on Chamber Chat Podcast. if anyone listening wanted to reach out and get in contact with you or maybe dig in a little deeper about how you're doing some of these retargeting and and digital marketing campaigns there at the Joplin Chamber. How might they reach out to you?
31:52.735 Toby Teeter
you can reach me directly at via email. It's Toby T O B Y at Joplincc dot com. So it's Toby at Joplincc.com and I'm also easy to find on LinkedIn.
32:03.064 Brandon Burton
All right. And I will get those updated in the show notes page for this episode as well, which will be found at Chamberchat Podcast dot com slash episode sixty nine. But again, Toby, thanks for spending time with us today, sharing your insights and some of your digital marketing expertise. I think it it provides a great value to the other chamber professionals listening and I hope they take action and start implementing them at their chamber.
32:27.288 Toby Teeter
Thank you, Brandon, for happening.
32:30.55 Brandon Burton
If you are a Chamber Professional, please subscribe to Chamber Chat Podcast in Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or Spotify. When you subscribe to Chamber Chat Podcast, new episodes will show up in your podcast app each week as they are released. If you're finding value in this podcast, please leave us a rating and a review in iTunes. But most importantly, please share Chamberchat Podcast with your colleagues that are in the industry.

This transcript has been lightly edited for readability and to correct obvious transcription errors while preserving the meaning of the original conversation.

Episode 66 — Closing the Relevancy Gap for Chambers with Betsy Gardner Eckbert
Clean Speaker-Labeled Transcript
Guest: Betsy Gardner Eckbert
Automated QA: Passed

00:00.108 Brandon Burton
Hey there, just real quick before we get into this episode, this is Brandon, and I just wanted to share a quick message. If you are listening to this, chances are good that you are a chamber professional. And guaranteed, if you're listening to this, you also listen to podcasts. Have you considered creating a podcast for your chamber and all the benefits that that can bring? Check out my free chamber podcasting guide at chamberchatpodcast.com/slash podcasting. to learn how you can get started with your own chamber podcast. This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.
00:48.014 Brandon Burton
your host. Enjoy.
00:55.042 Brandon Burton
He's my dad, Brandon Burton. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. This is your host, Brandon Burton, and you're joining us today for episode sixty-six of Chamber Chat Podcast. And you just heard a an introduction from my youngest daughter, Addy, as she told everyone that I enjoy going on cruises. And in fact, as we record this early April 2020, I should have just been getting off of a cruise ship last Saturday. And unfortunately with all the everything going on on around the world right now with the coronavirus pandemic, that cruise has been postponed. So I I'm not coming off with a nice suntan after after a fun week on board. But I do enjoy going on cruises, my wife and I do, and and we have a lot of fun doing that. But today our guest is Betsy Gardner Eckbert, president and CEO of the Winter Park. Chamber of Commerce in Florida. And Betsy was raised, she was actually raised in Winter Park, Florida, where things came full circle in January 2017 when she became the president and CEO of the city's Chamber of Commerce. She has focused on innovation and closing the relevancy gap to modernize the organization, earning the 2018 Chamber Innovation Awards Grand Prize. Previously, in 2009, She moved with her family to London, England, where she became director of business development for Mentor Consulting Limited, a UK consulting firm advocating for gender diversity at the board level. She would go on to co found an international children's luxury brand of UB UV protected swimwear, Longwave Apparel Limited, that was marketed in 14 countries. That success, after taking time off from Her award-winning biotechnology sales career to raise her children inspired her to create the Chambers Relaunch Program aimed at stay-at-home mothers who are ready to go back to work. A Hall of Fame inductee, the University of Florida graduate, was also the 1991 Outstanding Female Leader. She serves the community on several boards, including Winter Park Health Foundation Board of Trustees, Winter Park Economic Development Advisory Board Member.
03:21.368 Brandon Burton
Greater Orlando Builders Association, Governmental Affairs Committee member, Rollins College, Department of Business Advisory Committee member, Seacoast Bank Community Advisory Board Member, American Arbitr Arbitration Association Arbiter. She has also won several recent allocades, including the Orlando Business Journal Women Who Mean Business, Orange Appeals Women of Influence. and Winter Park magazine's influentials. I'm excited to have Betsy on the show today to talk about closing the relevancy gap for chambers. And we will get into this discussion as soon as we get back from hearing from our sponsor.
04:10.164 Brandon Burton
During this time of uncertainty, most chambers are looking for ways to replace funding from events and programs that have either been canceled or postponed due to social distancing that does not allow for us to meet as large groups. Another topic that is top of mind for chambers is how to help their member businesses recover from the financial impact their businesses experienced. With these considerations in mind, I want to introduce you to Swipe It. Swipe It offers a credit card processing affinity program for Chambers of Commerce that can help answer your questions about how to replace some of your lost revenue while also allowing for you to serve as an advocate to your member businesses by introducing them to a resource that can save them money on their credit card processing fees so they can become more profitable. Swipe It has been a supporter of Chamber Chat Podcasts from the beginning. And they are the best in the credit card processing business. Visit ChamberThat Podcast.com slash CC, which stands for credit card, to learn how you can get swiping with Swipe It. All right, Betsy, we are back. I wanted to welcome you to the Chamber Chat Podcast and ask you to just say hello to the audience and if you would share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little bit better.
05:36.226 Betsy Gardner Eckbert
Well, I'm thrilled to be here, Brandon. Thank you. And a couple well, interesting about me, I as you know, I lived outside the country. I've also hiked five hundred miles with the Appalachian Trail, which is something that my mother didn't love. She thought it was dirty and the kind of thing weird people did. So it was one of the most transformational experiences of my life. And I did live in the woods basically for six weeks back in nineteen ninety nine. So I loved it.
06:05.026 Brandon Burton
Right. Did you see a lot of weird people on the trail?
06:08.146 Betsy Gardner Eckbert
no, I saw a lot of fantastic people on the trail. And so it kind of proved my mother's hypothesis wrong. I met a lot of amazing people. Yeah.
06:15.97 Brandon Burton
That's awesome. Awesome. well that is definitely an interesting fact about you. I love it. can you share with us a little bit about the Winter Park Chamber? By maybe the size, location, budget, just to give listeners a better idea of the perspective that you're coming from as we get into our topic today.
06:34.326 Betsy Gardner Eckbert
One of things I've learned in my short time being a chamber executive, which is only a little over three years, is that you just don't want to judge a book by its cover, right? So people on this podcast have probably never heard of Winter Park, Florida, but Winter Park sits in the MSA of Orlando. And everyone's heard of Orlando, I'm sure. And what's interesting about Winter Park is it's an extremely high net worth community that most of Central Florida's CEOs live in. So while it's a very small community, it's extremely mighty in terms of its influence, both regionally and to some degree nationally. We've got national businesses that are headquartered in Orlando, and a lot of those CEOs lay their head down on a winter park pillow at night. So it's a really fun mix of hyperlocal and small, and then a lot of really interesting thought leaders and senior business people that help guide what we do, which makes it really, really fun. So the size of our chamber at the moment, we have eight hundred and seventeen members. We have fifteen people on staff, half of whom are part time. And we have a budget of a little over a million dollars. And so that's kind of ca a context of where we are from size, location, budget.
07:48.958 Brandon Burton
All right. That that will help to give everyone an idea as we get into our discussion today, which as I mentioned in during the introduction, we'll be talking about closing the relevancy gap for chambers. And as I've been going about producing this podcast for a little over a year now, that the topic of relevancy for chambers comes up very often. And I think this is a neat perspective of closing. the relevancy gap rather than just, you know, how do we stay relevant? How do we keep our head above water? So this is more of a proactive approach as as I see it of how do we actively close that relevancy gap. so I know this is something that's you know a passion for you. So before I, you know, take any any of your thunder, why don't you share with us a little bit about your thoughts about closing the relevancy gap for chambers and why it's so important to you.
08:45.484 Betsy Gardner Eckbert
Well, I think it's interesting because chambers are not immune to this kind of phenomenon that's happening at places that used to be in vulnerable institutions and communities. I'm talking about places of worship, talking about country clubs, koanis and rotary clubs, really the king-making organizations of people's communities that nobody could imagine would ever have a point of vulnerability are now struggling. with how do we keep enough members to keep the light bill paid? You know, so there's a very real and present call to action to sort of at the risk of sounding blunt, innovate or die, right? So I I think chambers are very much in the basket of those groups that are all trying to figure out who they are. We're in an identity crisis as a country. How do we create meaningful connectivity now that a lot of people are connecting through social media? how do we create something that transcends the building that we're operating in? And so I think you know, I grew up with the Winter Park Chamber king-making legislative delegates, you know, king-making congressional delegates. I mean, it it was something I I could never imagine was a was something that would be struggling with how do people understand who we are now? But that's where we are. And I think it's really important for chambers to Call that by what it is, to name it, to embrace it, and understand that you we all have a problem. We all have the problem of understanding how do we create relevant engagement tools and platforms for our members? Because without it, we won't we won't survive. And so we've got to create a new business model. We've got to create something that goes beyond that model of chamber events. You probably know, I mean, when I first got in this role, I I went on and read all the horizon study stuff from ACCE and I'm I really think that metric is significant. Twenty percent of chamber members nationwide attend events. And if we are relying on engaging with twenty percent of our members, how do we expect one hundred percent of the renewals to come in? Because if people are using event attendance as their engagement metric, we're not gonna be successful.
11:08.952 Betsy Gardner Eckbert
So we have to change the conversation about what engagement is and what it looks like. And I think that starts with understanding our members as customers. We call them customers in our organization. We know that we're delivering a service to customers just like a business is. And we behave like a business. We don't apologize for behaving like a business. We are a business. And one of our top priorities is to be a role model for the business community. How can we lead them without setting standards for them to follow, right? So we need to be highly efficient business people ourselves. And I'm lucky that I've had a background in sales and marketing and entrepreneurship that I think we definitely put into our kind of we act like a lean startup and we definitely have a lot of innovation and creativity and a real lust for getting it right on the next iteration. That undercuts our culture internally at our chamber. But I think this notion of identifying, if you don't know that you have a relevancy problem, I hate to say this, but you're not paying attention. Everybody has a relevancy problem right now. And if you just think you've solved your relevancy problem, you've got to move on to the next relevancy problem. Because staying relevant is a constant and dynamic process. So even if you've gotten there, you need to continue to innovate to stay relevant. So We actually changed our mission statement three years ago. When I got into the role, no one could repeat our mission statement. Long rambling paragraph. And I asked everybody that was on the current staff when I got there, I said, Can you tell me what the mission of this organization is? And their faces just went blank. And so I think that's kind of an obvious but sometimes overlooked place to start. I think it's really important if you don't have a mission statement that will allow you To think differently about your business model, you need to create one. And so I'm very fortunate that our board allowed us to play with the idea of this engagement model that was different and highly relevant. And we were able to change our mission statement to something that even our members and our guests can repeat because we say it all the time. Every single program that we do, we did a podcast or I'm sorry, a Zoom call this morning.
13:25.548 Betsy Gardner Eckbert
where we led with our mission statement. And our mission statement is really simple and repeatable. It's to convene people and ideas for the benefit of our businesses and our community. So we bring people together. And we measure engagement now in different modalities. So we measure engagement by did you click on our newsletter? We measure engagement by did you open our newsletter? We measure engagement by did you like or share our social media post? We measure engagement by how many of you attended a webinar. and so we're measuring engagement in a way that goes way beyond this notion of did you show up to an event? Because that's just not gonna cut it. And what I'm really pleased with is that we've grown revenues twenty five percent over the past three years by doing this, and our our events revenue is flat. And we knew events were gonna stay flat, and that's not to to do events down in any way. Events are critical. They're very important and they represent a third of our revenue stream. But while maintaining flat event revenue, we've been able to grow our overall revenue twenty five percent in three years through using these tools.
14:32.59 Brandon Burton
That's awesome. If if I can just mention you're talking about different ways to engage and how the the idea of having members come to events and what low attendance that is. given the current situation in the world, you mentioned you just came off of a Zoom call this morning where you were everybody is reciting the the mission of the chamber. we're conducting this interview over Zoom. as so many of us are working from home at the current time with the the coronavirus stuff going on, this pandemic. And, you know, just the other day I was having this realization that so many people are becoming used to, or over the next few weeks, are going to become used to working from home. And there's going to be a big change in the marketplace, I believe, in when things go back to whatever our new normal is going to be. There's going to be a lot of remote workers, people that are realizing they can do their job just effectively from home as they could in an office. So when we're talking about engaging members, a platform like Zoom and webinars, I mean, these should be probably a standard staple in your arsenal to be able to engage your membership. Is everybody's familiar with Zoom now, you know, given let's take advantage of this opportunity and or see it as an opportunity. and see these tools that people are now familiar with and let's leverage that to help inform them, engage them, and convene them and bring them all together. that that's just something that's hit me over these last few days that that chambers can be taken advantage of.
16:10.326 Betsy Gardner Eckbert
Well, and it's interesting because we, like I said, we have a culture of innovation. So we do 110 events and programs a year. We survey a hundred and ten events and programs a year. So every Monday morning we're in a staff meeting going through our surveys and it's not a gotcha exercise. It is an exercise in how can we be a culture of continuous improvement as staff and a board and how can we look at what we delivered. Did it hit the target of what our audience needs or in did we anticipate their needs ideally? And then how do we get better the next time? So because we have this culture that's really nimble and based on speed of delivery and based on this con this culture of continuous improvement, we were ready to go. Two weeks ago, we were sitting in a staff meeting at 10 o'clock in the morning and we had our first webinar up on Zoom. For our members with seventy-eight people on it by four PM that afternoon. I told my team, let's make this happen. We've got to have, if you know Lean Startup, you know minimum viable product is what you want to get out there. So we had a minimum viable product out by four PM. We had a bunch of people on the call, they engaged with it. More people have now come on to our library and watch that. They shared it. So we've got this huge robust engagement model that goes way beyond these physical events, which is amazing because they're not Costing us anything outside of the sunk cost we have of our personnel right now. And so there's two things going on. We're demonstrating to our board that people need to get paid right now, which is fantastic. And we're engaging with our community in a way we never have before. In our first week, we delivered over 200 live webinar participants, with many more that sat behind that when they downloaded, or even better, shared our webinar with their customer base. So we have a series now called Securing Your Business during the COVID-19 pandemic. And we deliver a webinar every afternoon at four o'clock. And we've done topics on how to optimize your restaurant curbside practice, to having our congresswoman in to talk about the CARES Act, people from the US Chamber to talk about the CARES Act. Every day is something prescrip prescriptive. And as we move into what where we are, our third week at home, next week, we're going to be bringing in someone.
18:24.344 Betsy Gardner Eckbert
Who leads a session on improv to help us think more creatively and more nimbly as we continue to innovate new business models. So we're trying to provide support to the community through lots of different modalities, but we're finding that people are going on Zoom and using the chat feature to network. They're letting people know what they do so that they can be solutions based as they're interacting with each other. And we're finding that we've become a virtual community center as we go through this price crisis. So we're Definitely vectoring information, but we're also living out our mission. And we say every single time, this is our mission, and we're doing mission-aligned things. You know, somebody somebody wrote me and said, we should be making plastic sneeze guards for our whole community right now. And I said, what a great idea. We're not the organization to do that because that's not mission-aligned. We're putting all of our energy into bringing everybody together and vectoring information and catalyzing business growth when people think it can't be done. And so that's what we're focused on and it and it seems to be working really
19:25.87 Brandon Burton
That's good. So from what I'm seeing, it kind of the the flow of how this has gone in your chamber is kind of redefining what the mission is, setting up a different model for how you're interacting, and then it being creative with how you're engaging the membership. I think in those those three steps, mission model engagement is something that that chambers can look at. to see, you know, where they need to bolster things up and and strengthen their efforts to to help close that relevancy gap. are there other parts to this that that we're missing or as I'm trying to kind of summarize that, are are there other parts that you would want to expand on? Yeah.
20:11.264 Betsy Gardner Eckbert
A great summary, but I'll give you some of the detail of kind of how we make that work, right? So, what we try to do is we build a customer-focused model. What does the customer need? And it used to be that the chamber existed and people came to the chamber and people paid their dues because they wouldn't dare want to be left out of the directory, right? We believe that the same thing is true now. You don't want to be left out of our directory because you get such great Google verified. Search engine optimization. So we we definitely lead with digital engagement on our directory side too. But basically, we're looking at what we can do that nobody else can do. What is the golden handcuffs value proposition that we have that understands that there's a customer out there that's not getting this need met, and that the chamber is the only place where that need can get met. And really we focus on the word hyper-local or the two words hyper-local whenever we think about that, right? So At the moment, two types of media are important, hyperlocal and global, right? I want to understand what's happening in the entire world pandemic-wise. And I also want to understand what's happening here in Orange County, Florida, in terms of the pandemic. And even better, now I've got data about what's happening in Winter Park due to the pandemic. So I think we need two re we need two news sources, so to speak, and we need two presences. We need a global presence and we need a hyperlocal presence. Well, I'm pleased that we do have a local a global presence. We have a global membership of the Winter Park Chamber of Commerce because we get a lot of people from around the world that come to Central Florida and we want to engage with them and help be a boots on the ground resource for them as they think about entrepreneurship in Central Florida. But from the hypo hyperlocal perspective, we try to anticipate the need of the customer. And what's wonderful is the customer usually tells us what their need is because we ask them. We survey them and we ask them. And so we've surveyed them during the pandemic and said, what webinar topics do you guys want to hear from? And I've got a list of 20 of them that we're working on off of. Customers are very generous with their ideas and they're usually extremely helpful. So we use their ideas to drive our solutions for them. And so when we think about what can we do that nobody else can do.
22:25.738 Betsy Gardner Eckbert
It's standing behind our customers and amplifying their messages. It's standing next to them and burnishing their brand reputation within the community. It gives them a place to give things, resources, like time and money to to bolster their own sense of belonging or the quality of their brand within the community. And then there's other things that people want to get from the chamber. You know, people want to get marketing support and they want to get help with a business launch, things like that. But when we think about who's delivering things like talent in our market, if you've spent any time on LinkedIn lately, you know that it's just a battleground. There's all these recruiters on there all trying to fish from the same trout pall pond. And so basically what we've done is we've said, wait a minute, our community is full of extremely talented people, many of whom have got blue chip degrees from Higher education places that have very, very, very well respected brand names. And these are people that are sitting right under our noses and they're not applying for jobs. And the reason why we're not applying for jobs is because they're highly talented and successful women who are currently operating as stay-at-home moms. And we know that stay-at-home moms typically have a confidence gap that begins from six months or longer at home. This plagues men too, and that's documented by people like McKinsey and Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley have all done white papers on this. But we know that that gap exists for any gender, any age, any length of time beyond six months. We know that this affects women disproportionately because more women choose to exit the career ladder and stay home with kids. So when we started thinking about where we can source talent in a way that nobody else can. We started engaging with women who are at home who have law degrees from Notre Dame, journalism degrees from Northwestern, media experience producing shows for National Geographic, women who've done international business who are fluent in four languages, and this is just to name a few. So we had this powder keg of unbelievable talent sitting under our noses, and we cannot get them to apply for jobs because they don't have any confidence.
24:44.91 Betsy Gardner Eckbert
So we built a program several years ago called Relaunch, where we taught these women how to present themselves on a level playing field with someone who's say 25 or 30 years old. They have a professional headshot, they have an all-star LinkedIn profile, they have a resume that's been updated to look like resumes look now and not like they did 20 years ago. we teach them how to dress, we teach them how to communicate, we teach them not to put exclamation points in their emails, which is what moms do a lot, and we teach them not to do that. and we basically level their playing field to go back out into the workplace. And we've become a regional talent source for our region for talent they simply cannot find elsewhere. And so that's a really gratifying thing to think differently about that. When you think what chambers should be doing at their very basic level, economic development and workforce development are usually two of the most often used functions of chamber. And so, you know, in Winter Park, like I said, we're a very wealthy community. Class A office space is almost not available because we're almost fully occupied. And it's not the kind of town where a Verizon Regional Call Center is going to be relocated. But we have the same problem with accounting firms not having enough accountants. We have the same problem with law firms needing to hire part-time people. And we've got a talent pool of people who are ready to go back into those jobs.
26:08.682 Brandon Burton
So I love the idea about the the relaunch program and those are people returning to the workforce. And I was curious, how did you go about engaging specifically those women, those stay at home moms? So they're not necessarily a customer of the chamber. you know, that they're not part of a business, it's a customer. So how did you find them? How did you get in front of them? How did you get your messaging out to them about this is what your goal and and part of the mission of the chamber would be? Regarding them specifically.
26:39.854 Betsy Gardner Eckbert
Yeah. Well, that's the hardest part. And I will tell you that I've had a career you know, running and starting an international business, and I worked in London for a consulting firm and I was a national leader in biotechnology sales before I did this, but I stayed home with my own kids for thirteen years. And I think that my role modeling that is one of the most essential ingredients of the success of the program because even when we take women through the program, Women want to make sure things are perfect before they're executed. And this is one of those things where you're just simply gonna have to close your eyes and jump at the end of this thing. We've trained our people what to do, what to say, how to present themselves, and they still have a lingering confidence gap. Now, what's really interesting is when they get back to work, that gap completely closes and they forget that they ever had one. and that was definitely my experience. I was so nervous when I went back to work. After my 13 year break, I thought someone was gonna find out how much I didn't know about how a Microsoft outlook worked and they were gonna laugh at me in the office. And it was a paralyzing fear. So I know what that's like and I remember what that feels like. But I think it's it's one of the biggest challenges is because even when we brought women to the point where we say you're ready, they're like, No, but I still have to refine my resume one more time and and clicking go is really hard. So I will tell you that the challenge is working through our networks to find these women because they're not people who sign up for the chamber newsletter. They're not engaged with the chamber, but they are driving growth in our chamber. So a typical life cycle for us is we have a very strong presence on Facebook. And as you know, you can game Facebook to reach people of a certain age and a certain zip code. And so we buy Facebook ads and we reach out to people who are. usually between 35 and 55 years old. Not that we have a bias toward any other ages, but those are typically the ages of the people that we see in our program. And so we target our marketing on Facebook to those people. One of the things we found is the most effective thing. It's a video for me saying, did you know I was a stay at home mom for 13 years? And so they can't believe it. And when we tell them that, they think maybe there's hope for me too. It's a really hard sell. It's the hardest thing I've ever had to had to sell
28:59.33 Betsy Gardner Eckbert
Because people actually have to ultimately meet us halfway with self-belief. And that's the part that's really, really hard for us. But Facebook has been super helpful for us. and as we grow our community, there's kind of an underground of people that that will say, if you go to relaunch, you'll you'll get a job, you know. And so we're helping transition people back to work. We are going to begin offering relaunch via webinar, via Zoom, because we know people will have an urgent need to get back to work that have been h That have been home for a while that probably need to get back to work to make their families performance work now. So Facebook has been really helpful. The Underground Network has been really helpful. we do a ton of work with video, that helps a lot. The more we can put pictures out where people can see themselves in the picture, that really helps because we find that we have huge amounts of brand awareness, but to convert people from being aware of what we do to actually having the guts to do what we do. is a is a big leap. And one of the things we found out, for example, was we were offering relaunch on the same morning that all the local tennis leagues were meeting. And a lot of those women who stay home are playing tennis because they're quite frankly bored. And so if we were competing, delivering our content on tennis mornings, we were missing out on a huge group of people that we hadn't even thought about. So there's a lot of learnings for us and how we've executed it. and I'm very excited because I think within the next two weeks we'll be going to a web base format with this program. And at the moment we have people driving about two to four hours to get to our classes. It's a five week class and we have people driving from all of the state of Florida to come. And I'm pleased we're going to be able to launch the the web presence in the next two weeks.
30:44.374 Brandon Burton
That's awesome. I love the idea about the video of you saying, Did you know I was a stay-at-home mom for 13 years? And I I see that resonating so well with the those target people that you're trying to get in front of. would it be possible for you to send me a link for the video and I'll put it in the show notes page so those listening can check it out and maybe get some ideas? That'd be great. well as we start to to wrap things up here, I wanted to ask you based on our
31:06.382 Betsy Gardner Eckbert
Absolutely.
31:13.644 Brandon Burton
discussion today, what might be one action item that you could recommend that a chamber professional does to help take their chamber up to the next level?
31:22.766 Betsy Gardner Eckbert
Look at your mission. Make sure your mission is something you can actually execute on. Make sure it's something people can repeat because the more it becomes ingrained in who you are, the more everybody knows what you're about. So, you know, one of the things that terrified me when I got on this job, I had never worked for a chamber of commerce before. I would ask rooms full of people, what does a chamber of commerce do? No one could answer that question. Right? Lay people can't answer that question. So we need to give our customers the tools to become apostles of what we do. And if we tell them what we do, they can go out and tell people what we do, and they can come and bring more people to our tent, if you will, to become part of what we're doing and then enlarge our mission. So it sounds simple, but I've looked at so many chamber missions that you can't repeat. Nobody understands what does that mean? And you know, the other thing too is you may have to pivot your business model. So think about what your business model maybe should be, and then pivot your mission statement to enable you to get there, right?
32:27.244 Brandon Burton
Yeah. Yeah, it's funny you said how the lay people don't necessarily know what a chamber does. When I started this podcast, I was telling one of my friends who were texting and I told him I was starting this podcast, Chamber Tap Podcast, for chamber professionals to get ideas and to implement things back at their chamber and and he was just totally confused. He's like, What do you mean chamber you mean like like hyperbaric chambers or what okay, so there is a disconnect as far as the lay people knowing what a chamber does and and that's a problem. So
33:02.71 Betsy Gardner Eckbert
And and if we want people to understand what we do, we have to tell them what we do. And we've got to be very, very clear about that. So I would say step one is align your mission with a new business model. Make sure those two pieces go together. And then also I think it's really important that everyone understand we have a relevancy crisis. You have got to understand that. And if you don't understand that someone's going to understand it for you and leave your organization. So I think that's a really important call to action is that we get You know, to a place where we are being building these customer-centric models, where we're trying to anticipate and meet customer needs in the models. It's no longer the days of we're the chamber, you have to come to us. We're the big powerful group in town. I built my business into 14 countries using LinkedIn alone. Chamber of Commerce didn't help me build any of that. So we've got to understand there's lots of different ways for a customer to connect and grow their business. and we're a piece of it and I think we're a really valuable hyperlocal piece of it that nobody else can do. But if we don't understand that they have options, they're gonna go somewhere else.
34:08.706 Brandon Burton
That's right. So this question I ask it every I asked everybody that I have on the show, but it kind of goes along with everything you've been saying in our discussion. But as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see their purpose going forward?
34:23.767 Betsy Gardner Eckbert
Well, I think that that chambers are going to become more marketing partners because I think of the way search engine optimization works, you need someone verifying who you are online. And we do that. We provide that very important piece of it. I remember growing up, my parents had a dog eared, water stained chamber directory, and that's where we got our plumbers from, and that's where we got our bankers from. And you went to the chamber directory to understand, you know. what was happening and who to go to. I think that mechanism is still in place and it's even more powerful than ever. So when we say about you, what you say about you as a business, Google loves that. And Google gives you a vote for that. And that moves you up the search engine of optimization. So we believe that we've done all of the value generation for a basic tier membership at the First stroke of the key that says you're in our directory, because that's a very valuable piece of what we do. And then I think we do have to create these opportunities for people to engage in person, but we also have to create leadership-driven models. We have to give people a way to understand our community and themselves better through training and programs. I think we've got to do a fantastic job of advocacy, and we've got to tell people. You know, that boring piece of parking ordinance that somebody sat on like an egg for a year, we made that happen, right? And so we ask the question every week at our staff meeting, what doesn't get done if we don't exist? And then we tell that story back to the community all the time. We're here doing these things, and you need us doing these things because believe me, nobody else is gonna do it. And so I think that's a really important piece too. Chambers have got to have a sense of urgency. about understanding that community and customer need and then ideally anticipating it and being there before anybody else can bring that need to them. And oftentimes we're the only ones uniquely suited to doing it. So get out of that business of what anybody else can do and get in the business of only what you can do.
36:33.28 Brandon Burton
I love that question of what what doesn't get done if we didn't exist? And that's something every chamber should be asking themselves and asking their their boards and committees. well, Betsy, as we finish here, I wanted to just give an opportunity to for you to maybe share some of your contact information. If if people listening have any questions about what what was discussed today or if they wanted to continue this discussion offline, how might they get in contact with you?
37:03.214 Betsy Gardner Eckbert
So you can contact me several ways. I'm on LinkedIn, Betsy Gardner Eckbert. I'm also, if you go to winterpark.org, my email address is super long and ridiculous. So I'll just suggest you go to winterpark.org about us staff, and I'm the CEO, so I'm the very first person in the drop-down there. You can find my contact details there. You can also call us at 407-644-8281-282. We have a community care coordinator that's full-time right now receiving phone calls in the midst of the COVID-19 pandemic. And then we go back to the office, she'll be available all business hours then too. You could also find me on on our e-newsletter, which we would love for people to sign up to and receive, where you can hopefully see some of the practices that we engage in. And that's just as simple as going to winterpark.org and we have a simple box where you load in your email. And we can start sending you our e-newsletter, which we would love to do. So I look forward to hearing from people. I will tell you my my email address if you want to write it down. It's it's like I said, ridiculously long. It's bardneckbert at winterpark.org. Feel free to reach me directly. I love collaborating with my chamber peers. I think there's a lot of best practice out there. I'm absolutely so privileged to be able to work in the chamber industry. The kind of people that are attracted to this work are really amazing people. Who I've learned a lot from. but I will say that I have the best staff in the business. They're absolutely incredible professionals. And when I started, I said I had fifteen staff. and just to be clear about that, half of them are stay at home moms who've transitioned back to work through me. So we punch way above our weight. That's awesome. A lot of extremely talented women. We do have two men on our staff, so we don't run a sexist organization, but we have a lot of a lot of middle aged women on our team who way outperform what anybody else could be doing. And so it's a highly successful business model for us internally as well.
39:03.416 Brandon Burton
That is fantastic. And no matter how long your email address is, I'll update all that contact information in our show notes page to make it easy for people to find you. So they can go to they can go to chamber chatpodcast.com slash episode sixty-six and all of all of Betsy's contact information will be on there. and I think it's a great idea to sign up for the newsletter. I know of some other chamber professionals that as they go on vacations, they Whatever city they vacation at, they end up joining that chamber even just for one year. So they get all the communications and get ideas to see how different chambers do things. So this would be a great thing, great resource to sign up for the Winter Park Chamber newsletter and and learn how they're doing things there. So Betsy, thank you again for spending time with us today. I so appreciate you sharing all this valuable information for us, great ideas for other chamber professionals to implement. implement back at their chambers. So thanks a lot.
40:04.344 Betsy Gardner Eckbert
Brandon, it's been a privilege. Thanks so much for what you do and for your time. I hope everyone stays safe and well. And I look forward to going back to a bricks and mortar lifestyle at the chamber someday soon.
40:16.224 Brandon Burton
If you are a Chamber Professional, please subscribe to Chamber Chat Podcast in Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or Spotify. When you subscribe to Chamber Chat Podcast, new episodes will show up in your podcast app each week as they are released. If you're finding value in this podcast, please leave us a rating and a review in iTunes. But most importantly, please share Chamber Chat Podcast with your colleagues that are in the industry.

This transcript has been lightly edited for readability and to correct obvious transcription errors while preserving the meaning of the original conversation.

Episode 65 — Association Retirement Plans with Brian Williams
Clean Speaker-Labeled Transcript
Guest: Brian Williams
Automated QA: Passed

00:00.842 Brandon Burton
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.
00:14.27 Brandon Burton
And now, your host, he enjoys building projects around the house. He's my dad, Brandon Burton. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. This is your host, Brandon Burton, and wanted to thank you for joining us today for episode 65. And as you heard in the introduction there, that was my daughter Ella giving us a little bit of information or giving you a little bit of information about me that I do enjoy working on projects around the house. And as we are recording this episode, currently we're at the beginning of April 2020, and we're in the middle of this coronavirus quarantine and stay-at-home orders and everything. So a little bit of background as far as working on projects at home. Just couple weeks ago, well month ago now, our family moved. into a new home and I had big plans of building a a shop, you know, where I could work on on hobbies and and in the shop I was gonna also be building a a home office where I could host the podcast out of and and do all this fun stuff. And was really looking forward to working on that project. And as we moved into the new house about a week, two weeks later, all this stuff started happening with the coronavirus. So Currently, that project is on hold since I can't get out to the hardware stores and get the stuff that I need. And and I'm currently recording out of my closet to utilize this space as a a podcast studio. So I do look forward to getting back to normal and and working on those projects around the house. But today for this episode, we have Brian Williams with us. And Brian is the founder of North Shire Consulting. and provides investment advisory services to small business retirement plans and individuals. After eighteen years as an advisor, North Shire was started to follow his passion to focus on local small business markets. Brian's specialty is being able to communicate and connect with people across the age and financial literacy spectrum.
02:36.674 Brandon Burton
He's just as comfortable working around at retirees with a pool of assets as he is around first time savers, just curious about their four hundred one K. Brian takes his fiduciary responsibility to heart and only works in that capacity. He is a fee only advisor, financial advisor, meaning that he's compensated solely by the client, with neither he nor any related party receiving compensation that is contingent on the purchase or sale of a financial product. Brian originally is from Mayfield, New York, and now resides in Southington, Connecticut with his wife Lauren and two-year-old son Luke. Lauren is a special education teacher at Cheshire High School. When Lauren and Brian are not working, they enjoy running, producing their own podcasts, and long walks with Luke. Luke enjoys naps, throwing the ball around, and making a mess at each meal. Much the same activities as his father enjoys. As we have Brian on the show today, we will be talking about association retirement plans, and we will get into that discussion as soon as we get back from hearing from our sponsor. During this time of uncertainty, most chambers are looking for ways to replace funding from events and programs that either been canceled or postponed due to social distancing that does not allow for us to meet as large groups. Another topic that is top of mind for Chambers is how to help their member businesses recover from the financial impact their businesses experienced. With these considerations in mind, I want to introduce you to Swipe It. Swipe It offers a credit card processing affinity program for Chambers of Commerce that can help answer your questions about how to replace some of your lost revenue. while also allowing for you to serve as an advocate to your member businesses by introducing them to a resource that can save them money on their credit card processing fees so they can become more profitable. Swipe It has been a supporter of Chamberchat Podcasts from the beginning and they are the best in the credit card processing business. Visit Chamberchatpodcast dot com slash C C, which stands for credit card, to learn how you can get swiping
05:01.196 Brandon Burton
With swipe it. All right, Brian, we are back. I'd love for you to take just a moment and say hello to the audience and share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little bit better.
05:16.214 Brian Williams
Yeah, hello. Thanks for that introduction. I I couldn't have written it any better myself. The I guess for an interesting fact right now, just sort of give you a current state of affairs in the Williams household. So as you mentioned in the introduction, my wife is a special ed teacher. So she is downstairs. you mentioned doing a podcast from your closet. She may also be recording some videos for her students in the closet downstairs. So you guys are on the same page there. She yeah, it's certainly been a bit of a a challenge for her right now. Thankfully our daycare is open and has capacity to take Luke. So he's there from about six thirty in the morning till about eleven thirty and then we pick him up for for lunch and and to put him down for his nap. But certainly been been a challenge. It's been interesting. It's to have everybody home and get through it like everybody else. So that's current state of the Williams household. But as you mentioned I do I do have my own podcast as kind of a hobby. It's a very specialized, localized business podcast where I let small businesses tell their story in a longer format. So I do enjoy the podcast medium. I think it's different than anything else that's out there. So I've had a chance to listen to yours, Brandon, and go through a few episodes. So I really appreciate everything that you're doing for the chambers.
06:37.578 Brandon Burton
Absolutely. I appreciate that. And I think you're absolutely right about the format of podcasting. And it it's it's a platform that helps get stories out there in a different medium rather than blogs and and elevator speeches and things like that that we see very common throughout, especially in the the chamber field. So why don't you share a little bit of a background that maybe I didn't share in the introduction about your consulting firm about North Shire. And just help give some perspective to those chamber professionals that are listening to maybe understand why I'm having you on the show.
07:16.362 Brian Williams
Yeah, so I think I think it's important for people who aren't in the industry to to look at the industry in a in a few different ways. So you've got if you look at financial advising as a whole, you've got a lot of different segments that fall under that. So you've got certain people who are considered brokers and they have a regulatory body and they're to sell products and to get commission for those products. And they typically work with individuals, less so businesses. My business is a little bit different in that as you mentioned a fee-only fiduciary, which means I always have to act in the best interest of the clients. So I work with individuals and businesses on their retirement plans and also the employees of those those businesses. And if you were to look at the industry as a whole, sort of as a funnel or a or an upside down triangle, you've got that. financial advisor title on the top and then getting a little bit more narrow. You've got the group that works in a fiduciary capacity. And then getting further down the triangle, you've got an even smaller segment that really focuses on four one K's and small business retirement plans. And then further down from that, maybe at the tip of the triangle, you've got advisors who are into these multiple employer plans. So it really is a a segment of a segment of a segment if if you will. So You know, it's it's important to make those sort of distinctions and really dial into what type of professional you're working with. So I enjoy working with the small business market. I'm kind of a small business junkie as you can tell by my podcast. So I I just love that aspect of it and to be able to work with employees who may not have the understanding or the financial wherewithal to go out and meet with a professional on their own. I think for a small business to bring somebody like me in to sit down with those employees to Yes, it's about the four one K, but we end up having discussions about their student loan debt or cash flow or that type of stuff. So to be able to bring that as a s is a benefit to small business I think is I think is a really, really exciting benefit to offer businesses.
09:27.562 Brandon Burton
Absolutely. And you know, I I come from the advertising background and I see that similar kind of thing with as you meet with these small business owners that they are caught up on trying to run a business and not necessarily trying to learn, you know, the best strategies for marketing and advertising. And I it sounds very similar to you as well, as as they're trying to have their small business up and running. They're not able to dedicate that kind of time to doing the research and and learning all the ins and outs of four one K plans and how to best provide these benefits to their employees, which is why somebody like you would be such a benefit to them.
10:08.982 Brian Williams
Right. And I and I think I think that tailors right into the idea of having a a four one K plan that's that's sponsored by the Chamber and run through the Chamber. So it's not that sort of sitting across the desk, well here's some somebody trying to sell me something and I'm the small business trying to, you know, getting sales calls all day. Having a the chamber in the middle of that discussion who the business trusts and in turn the chamber has trusted this professional to to start this plan for them. I think softens the whole experience for everybody involved. Because as you said, ultimately you want business owners to focus on what they do best. If they're a carpenter, you want them building things. You don't want them to focus on advertising or running a four or one K plan.
10:53.666 Brandon Burton
That's right. Now, I had mentioned this as as being an association retirement plan. and I guess using that terminology just to maybe resonate with more of these chamber professionals that are listening, but the the official term would be multiple employer plans. can you tell us a little bit about that? How long have has these plans always been available? kind of what's the the history and background on that?
11:22.988 Brian Williams
Yeah, so multiple employer plans have been around for for a long time. What they had to have is a common nexus or a commonality, meaning they had to be in the same same business. So for example, a group of auto dealerships could bound together and have a multiple employer plan where they're basically all part of the same four one K plan, but they're now pooled together to get, you know, more purchasing power and You know, more efficiently run plans. So a couple of years ago, the Department of Labor looked at those plans and said, well, this is this is an efficient way to run a retirement plan for a couple different reasons. First of all, the small business market tends to be very expensive for these small plans. So this is a way for them to band together to get that increased person purchasing power. But also there's, you know, depending on the numbers, between four 50 million Americans who don't have access to any sort of retirement plan at work. And all the studies show that people are better savers if they can save through their paycheck rather than having that money come into the household and then having to save it. So it's really important that I think every employee should, in one form or another, have some sort of way to save for retirement through payroll deduction. So Department Labor said, okay, let's make these plans more efficient, but also make them more broadly available. So they worked through some different options. And what they came up with was this multiple employer plan and a subset of that called this association retirement plans or ARPs. And what that was designed to do is say, okay, this common nexus can now be. Geography. So as long as these businesses are in the same geographic region, meaning now a manufacturer could be in the same multiple employer plan as the deli down the street, all they have to do is be part of an association that is a bona fide association that's in the same geographic area. So obviously, Chamber of Commerces are the first thing that that comes to mind there and should. And the Department of Labor mentioned Chamber of Commerce in the legislation and the
13:37.792 Brian Williams
in the ruling and in the comments twelve or thirteen different times. So it was pretty pretty clear that this is a structure that they see as being efficient. And it's a it's a subtle sort of push to these chambers that you have a good structure here. You know, you have you have boards, you have committees, you have the ability to review these plans and put them in place. And you know, a lot of chambers will raise their hand and say, well we don't know anything about 401ks. We shouldn't, you know, we shouldn't really be taking that on. But And they they have a point there and that it's not something that they normally do, but when you compare that to to Joe and Jane's Delhi with five employees down the street, well, they don't have that structure either. But the chamber does have, you know, finance committees and executive committees and boards. So they they have a way to review these these processes and and these programs to put them in place. So so that's where we're at right now is this final ruling passed at the end of July and they gave sixty days sort of for these plans to get get up and running. You had some of the bigger chambers come on board right away and start their multiple employer plans, these association retirement plans. And now you're seeing some of the smaller chambers sort of poke around at it. Obviously now with everything that's that's happened in the country the last month or so, it's sort of a back burner item, as it should be. But I think you'll see them start to wrap up again, you know, in the summer and and through the fall, I think it'll be a a pretty interesting program for these chambers.
15:06.702 Brandon Burton
So you just you just hinted on it a little bit with the the current financial climate and just the overall climate throughout the the country at the moment. you mentioned this is probably a a backburner item, but I I know there's you know those fires that are being put out right now by chamber leaders all over the country. But is there an upside to getting involved with something like this at this time? Is this the time to to really explore this? Or I was gonna ask this question later on in the interview, but I think you know, with the the urgency that's on on people's minds right now, is this something that they need to pay attention to now or is it something that they can kind of earmark and and revisit it, you know, in a month or two from now?
15:56.972 Brian Williams
Yeah, I th I think that's a that's a good question. And some of that may depend on the geographic region that you're in, if you're close to a hot spot or where you are sort of in the cycle. Obviously your your first concern is everybody's health and then the health of the businesses and you want them to survive and and thrive. But I think it's it is a process that does take a little while to complete. you have, you know, boards that maybe meet once a month, so you might present and then they say, Okay, well, we'll talk about it at the next board. So, you know, you've got another 30 days before they meet again. So it does take a little bit of time to set up. So I think if it's something that you're planning on rolling out later in the summer or or in the fall, I think it's important to start to gather your information and and do some studies now and see if it's something that would that would make sense for your chamber. and the other thing is I think I think businesses, I think your member businesses want to see that your looking long term and that you're starting to put these programs in place for when business does get back up and running, whenever that is, because think about that. As a chamber, you're going out and you're trying to put out those immediate fires, but you're also expressing the importance of businesses to think long term and and what what opportunity does this present you and how does your business sort of evolve and what does it look like on the other side. So as a chamber you have to s take your own advice on that too. And I know everything right now is about the small business programs and state programs, but you do have to set away some time in your week, even if it's using something like this as a diversion to sort of get away from that. I think those long term projects for chambers are are really really critical because you wanna show value now, but you wanna show value, you know, in the fall and come out with some of this stuff as businesses does do ramp back up again.
17:48.394 Brandon Burton
I think that's a a key element to be forward thinking and to lead by that example of looking forward and saying, look, we are gonna come out of this and when we are we wanna make sure that you guys are stronger and better for it and and it really, I mean, I see it as a a great opportunity. And and like you say, it it everything has to go through boards and everything. So it's gonna take a little bit of time to get things in place, but why not start collecting that information, doing your research, especially when there is some downtime. Yeah, when people aren't all in their office. Maybe in be in between Zoom calls you can do a little bit of research. But so talk to us about some of the advantages for the employees and the member businesses as they take advantage of a program like this and in turn how that maybe relates to the chamber and the benefits to the chamber.
18:44.788 Brian Williams
Yeah, so I I I think the way you phrased that was really important. You started with the employees of the member businesses and that's important in the four one K world because everybody should act in the best interest of the employees, which sounds like it like it makes sense, but there's been times in my career when sometimes maybe what's right for the employees isn't exactly what's right for the business owner. So it might lead to an uncomfortable conversation. But most of the time their goals are in line. But That's the way you sort of build any 401k program is okay, if I was a participant in this program, how would I like to see it structured? And then you work backwards from there. So so the advantages to the employees, I I don't always want to make it all about cost, but sometimes that's a that's the lead-in. So it's it's about cost savings, it's about the ability of the business to start and maintain these planes plans as a collective unit under the chamber. So Ultimately, as the fees are lower, that obviously increases the the value of the participant retirement accounts. So it's it's about a cost structure. some of it is just simply having a plan, right? So we know that aside from cost structure, the next biggest obstacle for small businesses to starting a retirement plan is just the the complexity of it. And now you have a chamber program that's pre-screened, that's that's ready to go, and instead of being a you know, ninety day process to work through forms and stuff, it's really a lot shorter. You you're not starting your own retirement plan from scratch. You're simply adopting into, and that's the phrase you use, you're adopting into the chamber plan. So for the employees, it's about saving money on on fees and it's about the access to a plan, second of all. And I think one point that that's overlooked is why I think this is so important to chambers. as opposed to a different association would be the fact that the chamber's got this infrastructure of accountants and estate attorneys and insurance professionals who can really be brought in to build a financial wellness program for these these employees. So if you fast forward a couple of years, instead of someone like me going out to each individual business in town, which I still do, but now you have the ability to have these collective meetings.
21:06.368 Brian Williams
So let's say we're inviting all the age 50 and older employees of all the member businesses to a specific seminar that says we're going to talk about the 401k and some of the investment options and how you should invest leading into retirement. And we can do that now right across the businesses because we have some commonality among the plans. But now you can also bring in a member business who's an accounting firm. You can bring in a member business. Who focuses on estate planning and you can give them 10 or 15 minutes to speak to a group of retirees, which which is a tremendous benefit to them. Obviously, though groups groups like that, accountants and estate attorneys are all always looking for groups of people to get in front of, and you're providing a service to these employees. So I think that's one aspect as to why these programs, in my opinion, are the 401k the future, because you have that infrastructure in place. To help these these employees. And from an employer standpoint, it's a lot of the same, same advantages, right? So it's cost and complexity, those barriers are are lowered or eliminated. And the ability to provide this benefit to your employees, which really you couldn't ever get on your own. I mean, you're not going to get an accountant and a state attorney to go into Joe and Jane's Delhi to talk to three employees about. you know, estate planning and tax planning, it's just not gonna happen. But you could certainly do that in a chamber setting and now you've got forty employees across, you know, ten or twelve different businesses. So for a small employer to bring that benefit to the table for probably lower costs than they would be able to to get it on the outside is is an absolute win for for the businesses. And if you get into it for the from the chamber perspective, it's certainly a huge win for them. Now they're bringing something to the table that's not just for the member business businesses, but also for the employees. A lot of times chambers don't have that connection to the employees that they would that they would like. So their your connection and their their association is with the member businesses, but not necessarily all the employees. So maybe you're doing one of these seminars and maybe your executive director or your president or
23:20.248 Brian Williams
chairperson of the board comes in and does five minutes about the chamber and some upcoming events, you know, to a group of employees. So now suddenly you're gaining access to these employees that you might not have had before. And of course it's activity, it's content, it's all that sort of stuff. It's a another it's another item you can announce in the newspapers and on social media and in all that kind of stuff. So so for the chamber it's it's really a nice program to get that really works for employees, employers, but also your your other member businesses who are part of the financial services industry that give them, you know, to give them access to these groups of people to speak in front of.
23:57.226 Brandon Burton
Yeah, one of the things that stood out to me was the connection with with the employees. And so often as especially as I have other chamber professionals here on Chamber Chat Podcast, the topic of relevancy for chambers comes up. And usually we're thinking in terms of the business community being relevant to them. But I think as you stay relevant to the employees, To everyday Joe on the street on Main Street, the the employees who really haven't had any reason to think about the chamber or even know what the chamber of commerce is, if you can provide a value for them through a a retirement plan like this, all of a sudden the Chamber of Commerce is on the radar for all of these employees in your town. And they can see, this is what the Chamber of Commerce does, you know, as one of those. outlets what they do and and help spread the the good word about the the those advocacy efforts and and things that the chamber's doing to promote goodness and you know good economic standing throughout your community. So I think that's a really important point to highlight.
25:09.548 Brian Williams
Yeah, and I I think of I think of the podcast you did with with Sarah O'Brien about the the purpose statements and I think that's something that chambers have to think about going forward is not just making that connection to the to the businesses but to the employees because remember those employees that twenty-two-year-old who's filling out their four one K form for the first time, in twenty years they're the they're the new HR director of the company down the road with two hundred employees and they're deciding at that point if they want to be a chamber member or they're the that twenty two year old who's in that, you know, financial wellness seminar, they're the person who's gonna start that new business in three years and you want that person to be a chamber member. So it's it's about that that's that business cycle and it's about planting that seed into the next generation of the community business leaders.
25:58.316 Brandon Burton
That's right. Right. So you just touched on these advantages for the employees of the b of these member businesses, the advantages for the the businesses themselves, and some of these advantages for the Chamber of Commerce itself. let's dive into the the list of potential disadvantages or where where the hangups might be with a a program like this.
26:23.032 Brian Williams
Well, there isn't any. There are no disadvantages. Why would I come on here if there are disadvantages? No, I'm kidding, of course. I mean, there there are some there are some challenges. I mean, obviously you're you're dealing with you're dealing with people. Boards are made of people and there's always some of the challenges are roadblocks along the way. Somebody on the board says, Well, I know I've got a buddy or a neighbor who who could do this program a little bit differently or or that type of process, you're always gonna run into those with any sort of new program. and I think that the disadvantages are if the program isn't built the right way, if you go back to what I talked about, it's sort of that that funnel of the financial advisor community and and getting a more narrow focus. If you end up putting together one of these programs with somebody who's not laser focused on 401ks and and in turn multiple employer 401ks, It could end up just being another product that sort of sits on the chamber shelf. And that's absolutely what you don't want to have happen. You want this to be really focused on on growth and providing that that member benefit. so what I'm hearing now is is some advisors sort of see the dollar signs in their eyes and they they think that they've got a product, right? So they go and sort of pitch this to to chambers and then And then it becomes just that. Then the chamber the advisor thinks the chamber's gonna go out and and sell this for them. And the chamber thinks the advisor's gonna bring in all this all this new business and it it just sort of sits there. So I think if the program's not built the right way and it's not communicated the right way from the very start, it could end up sort of maybe not being a being a negative. But if you have this big rollout and then it doesn't catch on, it could sort of be a a depressing moment, I guess, for the chamber. So So that's a potential downfall there. If it if it's not built the right way, or if you get involved with, you know, special interest or somebody who knows somebody who knows somebody and it ends up just not being the right program, I think that's a that's a potential disadvantage.
28:30.83 Brandon Burton
I think that's good point to highlight as well. what would an ideal structure look like to implement a association retirement plan like we're discussing?
28:42.368 Brian Williams
Yeah, I think it goes back to to earlier making it really participant focused. And I think that's why doing some demographics or feasibility study beforehand are are really important. one of the things I talk about to to chamber leaders are you've really got got four quadrants, if you will, of your target market, right? You've got your existing members, some of them have plans, some of them don't, and then you've got your potential members or future members who don't have plans or maybe they do have existing plans. So so you may you may have a small chamber who says, hey, you know what, let's really focus on acquiring new members through this program and let's focus on not non non-members who don't have 401k plans. So now you need to structure a benefit for these for these businesses and you have to communicate the chamber membership and you also have to make sure it's Priced and communicated appropriately for startup plans because they don't have plans already. So that structure needs to be built for the goals of that chamber. Whereas let's say another chamber says, you know what, we've got enough membership. We really need to provide value to some of our bigger, bigger members. Let's say all our manufacturers have more than 100 employees, and we need to provide them with some sort of value or they're going to cancel their membership. Well, that's a whole different structure. That's a different pricing model. That might be with a different you know, record keeper, the chassis that it sits on. That might be a different program. So so I think those discussions are are really important early on in as far as how you build the program because you know, like I said before, you don't want this to look like a product. You don't want somebody to walk in the door and say, Hey, look, I sell chamber 401k plans and I've got the solution for you. Well, how do you provide a solution if you don't know what that chamber's goals are? Just like working with an individual. Everybody's got different goals and different retirement dates. So and a lot of times chambers may not even know what that goal is, or may they may not even be thinking of it in in terms of the four quadrants. So I think that's important too. And obviously the the geography and the size of the chamber. I've had some chambers say they think they're a little bit too small or a little bit too big. And I don't really think there is a a
31:03.214 Brian Williams
perfect size for the chamber. I think even the smaller chambers, you know, I don't think it's inconceivable to see a chamber with 200 members have 40 of their businesses adopt into this plan, nor do I see it a po an impossibility that a chamber with 2,000 members only has 40 members adopt in. I think it's those smaller chambers typically have a better relationship with with their businesses and they might get more early adoption than the bigger chamber might get. So so I think it's important that these programs are structured specifically for that chamber, the geography and the goals of the chamber.
31:38.35 Brandon Burton
Very good. I know, you know, in the recent past we've seen these association health care plans that have been rolled out. And similar kind of idea that you have to be a member of an association like a Chamber of Commerce to be able to enroll in these employee health care plans that offer you know group rates and cost savings that way. And I know a lot of the chambers that got involved with those, they were able to see you know better retention with their membership as well as new members coming in specifically for that healthcare plan because they were able to offer healthcare to their employees they weren't able to before. a lot of that had to do with the the timing of you know mandate for having healthcare provided by employers and everything as well. But I see even with these association retirement plans, that there's a certain stickiness to it as well. once a small business or member business gets involved and they're enrolling their employees in a retirement plan, that they need to remain a member of their association, the chamber of commerce to be able to keep that plan in force. so I think that that is an advantage to the chambers as well, to be able to have that stickiness and, you know, that retention and attraction. for new businesses. I don't know, have you seen any, you know, similarities or contrasts between the retirement plans versus the healthcare plans as you've been rolling these out at different changes.
33:20.706 Brian Williams
Yeah the Yeah, that's that's a good question. And that does come up quite a bit. There are some similarities. and I think you touched on all of them, sort of the bulk pricing and and the idea that they, you know, the differences with the health care, a lot of them have to have the the health care. So it's whereas you don't have to have a retirement plan. So I think that's one difference. I think one of the other one of the other things is how How it affects the different sizes of the business. So I think those programs are typically the really small employer or even the the sole practitioner. Whereas I think this 401k program can affect a larger swath of the of your membership. So I think those are those are a couple differences. I think the the conversion process for four one K's that are in existence now maybe can be a little bit longer or that, you know quote, sales cycle can be a little bit longer for plans that are already in place. There they might feel that there's a little bit of disruption because even though they that's one thing you run into a lot is is a a small business might say, Hey, you know what, it's a it's a pain in the butt to move our our four one K plan and I I can understand that to some extent it is. It's not not as bad as it used to be, but but there is some labor obviously involved with the small business. But the reality is from a Department of Labor standpoint, they they don't care how hard it is. You you've gotta provide the best benefit to your employees and it doesn't matter if there's an additional, you know, ten or twenty hours worth of labor in there. So it's a little bit more regulated, I think, than sort of the healthcare stuff, because if you're If you've got this program in your town that's a chamber 401k plan that's less expensive than the one you have, that's providing better service, it it sort of becomes a set a head scratcher. Well, why are you not in this program? And from a DOL standpoint, just simply shrugging your shoulders and say, Well, I think it'd be a lot of work to change. That's not really an acceptable answer. You really have to, you really have to continually monitor your 401k plan to make you sure you're in the best solution. Forget whether it's a
35:31.062 Brian Williams
multiple employer plan or something through the chamber. But that's something you need to do anyway. And it's an area where a lot of small businesses are are lax in doing that. So this is a program I think that you know, sort of solves a lot of those things because they can they can review it and compare it to their existing plan pretty easily because the chamber and the the advisor will do that for them. But a lot of times it'll just it'll just flat out be a better solution. I don't know how else to say it, but and it and sort of the the pressure there to move it is is pretty great from a regulatory standpoint.
36:03.246 Brandon Burton
Awesome. So as we start wrapping things up here, I I wanted to ask you, based on our discussion today, what would be one action item that you would encourage a chamber professional to do to take their chamber up to the next level?
36:20.09 Brian Williams
I would say you know, obviously I think this this program brings it brings them to the next level, but I think it's okay to do maybe a little soft survey to some of your constituents, if it's something you you know, send out in an email blast or just put on your Facebook page and see see if there's if there's interest. some of those surveys are a little bit tough because you're asking questions and the small business owner might not know exactly what you're what you're offering or what the point is. But I think I think it's a good idea for at least, you know, almost every chamber to sort of poke around at this idea and and see if it makes sense and and reach out to somebody like me who's done these programs before, rather than just look for an internal candidate or somebody on the board or somebody's neighbor or something along those lines, which happens quite a bit. because the the fiduciary responsibility of of finding what's best for your member businesses and their employees is is pretty great. it's it's very much different than any other sort of contract where, you know, if you're ordering a new desk or something, the the Department of Labor doesn't doesn't care if you order it from your neighbor. But if you're getting a four one K plan for your member businesses and their employees, you really have to make sure you're bringing the best program you you can to the table. So I think that's the action item is is be quick, but don't hurry, right? You wanna you wanna get these programs online and and make them available to your member businesses, but you certainly don't want to rush anything either. So I think it's important to stay on that cycle, stay on that you know, regular board cycle. I've even seen some chambers do sort of an off cycle thing, say, well, I don't want to wait a month until our board meets again. Let me pluck a people a couple of people off that board or maybe bring in a couple of people from the outside and let's just form sort of a 401k discovery committee or something like that to to make sure we're we're not as much on the monthly cycle and and maybe progress every couple of weeks. So I guess maybe that was a few different action items, but I would say I I would say I would say poke around and and just make sure you're doing your ends and pull it in from from a few different sources. Don't locally.
38:28.044 Brandon Burton
Yep, start exploring the idea. So Yeah, exactly. So I ask this question to everyone that I have on the show. As we look to the future of sp specifically regarding chambers of commerce, how do you see their purpose moving forward?
38:46.07 Brian Williams
Yeah, I I think it's gonna be I think it's really twofold. I think it's the first one is you is as data and all these chambers get better with organizing themselves, I think they're going to be providing more more definable, more quantitative results to their member businesses. And by that what I mean is let's say for example, we have a a non member and we find out we can save them forty six hundred a year on their four one K plan. I think I think those sort of items as part of that renewal notice are gonna become more important. I think there's a certain analytical crowd out there that wants to see, okay, I paid my, you know, chamber membership. What exactly did I get for that? And I items just mean it in terms of the 401k plan, but I think okay, this this business posted to the chamber page once a week. So there's 50 times and they reached an audience of of X, you know, let's assign a value to that. And I think These these chambers do really bring a lot to the table and renewals really should be a a no brainer in most cases. And I think if once they get a little bit better organized and to be able to quantify that on renewal, I think is is gonna be important. So I think that's that's one segment that I see chambers going in that direction. and I I think the other one is just that the chambers need to be need to be storytellers. They need to be use this platform that they have, whether it's podcasts or videos or you know, blog posts, email books, I think they need to tell the story of of the business. So it's sort of in contrast to all the numbers people, it's the stories people. you know, we know that people do business with people that they know the backstory with and they're they're comfortable with. So I think as much as Chambers can get out there and tell the story of the business, they're perfectly equipped to do that. They have an audience. They have, you know, Facebook pages and email lists. So they can spotlight businesses and do that sort of stuff in different formats, you know, chambers in the morning or, you know, podcasts and stuff. So I think it's those areas and it's maybe at other ends of the spectrum, opposite ends, but you've got that real quantifiable benefit. You've but you've also got that storytelling aspect. So I'd love to see more chambers tell stories about their businesses, but also about themselves. Chambers are not great at at tooting their own horn or talking about all the work they did.
41:03.468 Brian Williams
And I know you mentioned that on another another podcast too, is that a lot of times they collaborate with with other entities that end up taking all the credit and the chambers just kind of behind the scenes. But I'd love to see more chambers, you know, produce a weekly Facebook Live on a Friday afternoon. Here's what I did this week. Here's what we so I think it's gonna be those two aspects.
41:23.106 Brandon Burton
That's right. I love the idea of being storytellers and showing what the value is to the members of member businesses. And of course, I'm a little prejudiced to the platform of podcasts and and recently developed a a little getting started guide for chambers to produce their own podcast. So if you haven't checked that out yet, you can get that free resource at chamberchatpodcast.com slash podcasting. And it's a a free PDF to get you started and kind of outlining your first ten episodes and kind of the equipment and software and everything you need and why a chamber should podcast and all that. So really encourage any chamber professional listening to dive into that and and see how you can become more of a storyteller at your chamber. And the the format of podcasts is great because people can listen to it on the go. They don't have to be looking at their phone for a video or anything like that. But anyways, I can go on and on about the value of of using the platform of podcasting. Yeah, Brian
42:28.8 Brian Williams
I I would agree. Yeah. And and chambers with the idea of I like the way I look on camera or I don't like the way I sound or I'm not a techie or I don't have the equipment, all that stuff, you gotta draw a line through it because it's just not people just if there's a little bit of a hum in the background or if you, you know, slip up and ooh and to you know, s stutter here or there, it's not that big a deal. So yeah, the more you can get through that stuff and tell the stories, the better.
42:53.582 Brandon Burton
That's right. Well, Brian, before we say goodbye, I wanted to give you a quick opportunity to put your contact information out there. So if anyone has any questions about what we discussed or kind of the next steps on implementing a association retirement plan, how can they get in contact with you?
43:13.516 Brian Williams
Yes, so again, my name is Brian Williams. My company is North Shire Consulting, N-R-T-H-S-H-I-R-E, and that is an independent investment advisory firm. So you can you can find me at North Shire Consulting.com. My email address is b Williams at North Shire Consulting.com. I also run the website chamber401ks.com. So that's 401ks.com. and you can put in some information there about your chamber and I'll get back to you and we'll start to work through the demographic study and get old fashioned phone you can find me at eight hundred four nine eight one eight seven six and you know obviously on social media and stuff and I appreciate coming on here so thank you.
44:02.572 Brandon Burton
Very good. And we will update all of that in our show notes page, which will be found at Chamberchatpodcast.com slash episode sixty five. So everyone can go there and and reach out and get in contact with Brian. But Brian, I wanna thank you so much for taking some time today to spend with us here on Chamber Chat Podcast and and the great value that you brought to the audience today.
44:27.288 Brian Williams
Well and and thank you too for, you know, letting the chambers tell their tell their story 'cause I think it's really important that the chambers work together and get the best ideas out there in a in a a community with a strong chamber is much better off than a community with a with a weak chamber and I really do believe that. So I appreciate all the work that you're doing to make that happen.
44:48.438 Brandon Burton
If you are a Chamber Professional, please subscribe to Chamber Chat Podcast in Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or Spotify. When you subscribe to Chamber Chat Podcast, new episodes will show up in your podcast app each week as they are released. If you're finding value in this podcast, please leave us a rating and a review in iTunes. But most importantly, please share Chamberchat Podcast with your colleagues that are in the industry.

This transcript has been lightly edited for readability and to correct obvious transcription errors while preserving the meaning of the original conversation.

Episode 68 — Part 2 with Michael Gellman
Clean Speaker-Labeled Transcript
Guest: Michael Gellman
Automated QA: Passed

00:00.108 Brandon Burton
Hey there, just real quick before we get into this episode, this is Brandon, and I just wanted to share a quick message. If you are listening to this, chances are good that you are a chamber professional. And guaranteed, if you're listening to this, you also listen to podcasts. Have you considered creating a podcast for your chamber and all the benefits that that can bring? Check out my free chamber podcasting guide at chamberchatpodcast.com/slash podcasting. to learn how you can get started with your own chamber podcast. This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.
00:53.966 Brandon Burton
Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. This is Brandon Burton, and it is my goal to introduce you to people and ideas so you can better serve your chamber members and your community. You guys are all joining us for episode 68, and this is the second part to a two-part series with my guest, Michael Gelman, who is the founder of Fiscal Strategies for Nonprofits. If you have not listened to episode 67 yet, I would highly encourage you to hit pause and go back to the previous episode. You'll want to listen to that discussion before you get into episode 68, which is where we are now. in episode 67, just as a reminder for everyone that listened to it, we did talk about a financial health assessment framework worksheet. And there was a little bit of a homework assignment. So if you're supposed to print out this worksheet and fill it out to start visualizing what the financial health of your organization looks like. So if you have not downloaded or printed that worksheet yet, why don't you go ahead and hit pause? You can go to the show notes page, chamberchatpodcast.com slash episode sixty-eight, and you can print it out from there. but highly encourage you to have that at least the top portion of that. worksheet filled out before you continue listening on the with this episode.
02:28.014 Brandon Burton
During this time of uncertainty, most chambers are looking for ways to replace funding from events and programs that either been canceled or postponed due to social distancing that does not allow for us to meet as large groups. Another topic that is top of mind for chambers is how to help their member businesses recover from the financial impact their businesses experienced. With these considerations in mind, I want to introduce you to Swipe It. Swipe It offers a credit card processing affinity program for Chambers of Commerce that can help answer your questions about how to replace some of your lost revenue while also allowing for you to serve as an advocate to your member businesses by introducing them to a resource that can save them money on their credit card processing fees so they can become more profitable. Swipe It has been a supporter of Chamber Chat Podcasts from the beginning. And they are the best in the credit card processing business. Visit Chamberchatpodcast.com slash CC, which stands for credit card, to learn how you can get swiping with Swipe It.
03:41.88 Brandon Burton
But Mike, as as we resume this conversation, would you mind just taking us through a quick recap of what you covered in our previous episode?
03:52.558 Michael Gellman
Thank you, Brandon. so in the first part of the episode, we talked about that there's a five part process that we're going to go through. And we talked about part steps one and two. And this step one was finding a starting point. And the basis of the starting point was overweighting, over leaning on the impact of important decisions that we're making on the ground every day right now, their impact on financial health. financial position and financial use of re financial resources until we see a path of recovery. We can see a path of you know a light at the end of the tunnel, because at that time we will be able to go back. And we want to ensure the overall underlying premise there is we want to ensure the continuity of an organization. And if we look back to the you know nine eleven and the banking crisis, which were long-term changes back then, the one universal sort of mistake we think that most organizations made is they burned through more financial assets or got a weak in their position quicker than if if you know than they would have liked to have had. And we want to try to avoid that on in this disruptive time. Then the second step that we went through was to go through the three critical factors that we're going to look at on the framework template. And the three critical factors were broken into the following three areas an assessment of financial health, an assessment of the vulnerability of your funding sources, your cash flow, your sources of revenues, and then an assessment on demand volatility. And we see with most organizations that demand is going in both directions. It's going up for some things and down for others, as we see some events and things were canceled. And then there were in increasing demand for services based on the community or continuity and and such.
05:47.892 Brandon Burton
All right. And if they've printed out the worksheet, the framework, they should have that in front of them and be following right along with what you just summarized. So let's let's move on to the next step of this framework of the the timing and implementation.
06:06.41 Michael Gellman
And this we won't need the framework for the worksheet we'll come back to. This is a couple of concepts I want to talk with you about. And I've used these myself many times, and then we'll we'll pivot back to the the framework template. Okay. So under timing and implementation, there's a concept of two phases. And it's, you know, it helps give a sense of purpose, if you think of this, helps give a sense of action and a and a sense of calmness. And the two phases are my favorite one, which is what I call super short term and short term. So we're separating out super short term from short term. And the concept around super short term are there's a lot of things that organizations are facing right now. And they're even thinking about their biggest event that's going to be happening in the fall or something. And there's a I know there's decisions that have to be made even related to that that have to be made pretty soon and such. But as we go through the when we come back to the the framework template We're gonna put a check by a decision or a a strategy or a pivot, and we're gonna check either super short term or short term. And the super short term, you'll define it for your organization, but I usually look at it as things that we decisions we have to make now or in the next week or so. And short term or decisions we have to make in thirty to sixty days. And so And you see, I'm gonna talk a little bit about this towards the end, that we're really we're pivoting away from annual budgets right now temporarily to short term rolling 90 day or three month budgets. And again, it gives a sense of direction because there's like overwhelming how many decisions, but it the the dashboard will start to push both yourself and the board to concentrating on the super short term, the decisions that are right in front of you.
07:50.688 Brandon Burton
Okay.
07:53.068 Michael Gellman
And I just think it really gives a sense of order because people you know, especially you know, board members are volunteers, they get overwhelmed really quickly and it helps them to look at say, Okay, yeah, these are the things that are in front of us right now and we have to be watching over.
08:08.076 Brandon Burton
Makes a lot of sense. again, I d I think the value of just being able to have the snapshot to look at and say this is what the high demand, what the high you know, what the the current fire is you gotta go put out. And then here's something we can get to, you know, maybe a month from now or you know, still short term, but but not today. So that that that should help give some perspective as to to what needs to be have the focus today. versus what should have the focus next week or the following.
08:39.19 Michael Gellman
Good. So with that, Brandon, we'll go to the op the step number four, which is looking at operating reserves. And to me, it's the key, and you'll see this on the framework worksheet of doing a health assessment, a financial health assessment of the organization. I just want to talk about the concept of operating reserves. Okay. I think this is if I had to only look at one thing, which is unfair, organizations that are sitting on you know, operating reserves, a substantial amount of operating reserves, have a whole different set of tactics. options and just literally things they can do that organizations are in a financially weak position that don't have operating reserves. Okay. And so that and you know when we're talking with groups, it's funny when I'm in a room with a large group or doing a a large Y, you know, you know, webinar that's live, you know The gr you could see literally the groups that are, you know, financially weak don't want to hear about the tactics that the groups that are strong can do. And the groups that are strong don't want to hear about tax weak. So I do you know, I'll pause there for a second, Brenda, but I think it's really helpful. You gotta go back and look at your balance sheet. and you can tell the strong organizations are sitting on cash assets, they have operating reserves, they're having no trouble paying bills, meeting payroll. The weak organizations, you can tell them they're sitting on no cash, they're Operating reserves or their unrestricted net assets are underwater, and it's a struggle to go from pay period to pay period.
10:07.566 Brandon Burton
So maybe can we put a little bit of focus on the those that are maybe in that weak category to see maybe what some of those some examples of some of those options that they might have just to maybe spark some ideas of you know, areas to explore.
10:24.844 Michael Gellman
Right. Very good. So on the weak side, and you'll see this on the spreadsheet, you know, the tactics are different in the the in in their immediate, you know. so organizations and they all in and around cost containment. because we want to protect the continuity of the organization. We want the organization to live into the future because we can help more people if we can be around twenty or thirty years. But we're only gonna be around another two or three weeks. There's a limited number of people we can spend out our assets and be done, which means we'll probably be forced to do less right now in the short run until we see some sort of financial stability. And here's what the statement I wanna make. No operating reserve protects you from a long term change. They're protecting from short term changes, which is usually like thirty, sixty, ninety days worth of change. And we're probably for sure, I think we could bet the house that this economic, you know, medically, I hope we get our arms around the coronavirus as quick as we can. Economically, I think we're gonna be seeing a ripple effect of this for a while. It's gonna affect nonprofit budgets. It's gonna affect our funding sources. And so we need to pull back, no operating reserve protects you against a permanent change. It's almost like a permanent change. So we need to right size the budgets. So Brandon, all the tactics for weak organizations is to try to get that.
11:46.924 Brandon Burton
Well I might even suggest even if you are a strong financial organization, you have those reserves, pay attention, you know, for these what these weak organizations or weak financial standing organizations need to start implementing because you can't outlive most likely what your operating reserves are, especially if we see the financial impact of this going on for I don't even want to put a number of of months or time frame to it because it it's not encouraging. But to be able to be prepared, it's probably a good idea to listen what to what these financially weak organizations need to do because that may be where some of these financially strong organizations find themselves further down the road as they work through those operating reserves.
12:32.888 Michael Gellman
So, Brenda, you bring up a good point, because on the financial strong side, the tactics are different, but you can actually make more mistakes if you have a lot of assets. Because we're gonna second guess that when we look back and hopefully, you know, and see did we in you know, that was the big sort of mistake we made and especially in the banking crisis, how long it took to come out. Organizations that were really in strong positions survived, but they really started a weakened because they and there's a word I'd like you to write down. It's called metering out. It's a hyphenated word. And the groups that have operating reserves, and we're in the early phase of this COVID nineteen right now, is to figure out what kind what portion of our operating reserves we want to make available to to bridge when our funding sources have been disrupted because we had to cancel events and things. Because e j it's because even if you haven't canceled event, if you delayed or deferred an event to later in the year or even next year, that revenue stream to the outside public, you're gonna have it eventually. But you've lost that revenue stream now. And there's groups especially that in their that you know it doesn't you know every organization is seasonal where they've had some of their biggest events are happening right now. You know, and if you look at like the tennis tournament, you know, and if you're you know Wimbledon has been canceled, you know, and and and or it's gonna be moved or whatever, you know, it affects y that. So on that side, I really look it's a strategy. And and I call it the zero and the hundred percent rule. We're not gonna make zero of our reserves available, but we're gonna but we're not gonna burn we don't wanna burn through too many, definitely not a hundred percent. And so the framework worksheet will help us to go through a thoughtful process to say well, this is how much we want to expose at this time and why and what the ROI is on that.
14:18.602 Brandon Burton
All right. So as they try to meter out those financial reserves, I know it's important to look at the the framework template. When you don't know what an end to a hyper changing situation is that we find ourselves in now, what suggestions would you have for how they meter out those operating reserves?
14:42.648 Michael Gellman
Well, that's a really excellent question. I think if we pivot ourselves to walking through the framework worksheet, well, it's sort of in the f I think we can address it best through the worksheet.
14:56.384 Brandon Burton
Let's use that tool.
14:59.182 Michael Gellman
Okay. So I hope everybody has the the template in front of you. I really believe in the three sections of it. We're gonna walk through from the top down to the bottom. but I also encourage you to do some editing to make sure the worksheet, the dashboard meets the the the culture of your organization. And I will point out where because I've used this worksheet, it came out of you know, having this by my side. Literally when I started developing it early, like a few weeks ago. I just made like 10, 12 copies of it because as people as organizations were calling, I was literally with a pen writing in and using it. Such. So on the worksheet, you'll see step one is at the top of the worksheet. Step two is in the middle, and step three is on the bottom. And step one is at what I call the financial health section. And it's going to that's broken into three. And it goes from left to right across the page. And you'll see there's three boxes in the financial health assessment. And it's just to help you to make and less is better than more. You can quickly tell whether a balance sheet is sort of in a strong position or a weakened position. So box number one, we're going to list any f financial strengths of an organization. Strong organizations are might be sitting on substantial cash, investments, and but not substantial assets. I've seen financially weak organizations have millions of dollars tied up in buildings, but they're illegal liquid funds. So building could be a strength or a weakness, but we'll talk about that. And then you're listing weaknesses down below. Organizations that are financially weak, they would have a low cash position, counts payable is over 120 days. They might even have some debt on the books. A financially strong organization might have a weakness, might have hardly any weaknesses. If they've sitting on two, three years worth of reserves, they're liquid, they don't have a building. But they might have millions of dollars invested in the market. And as we saw, there was one point where the market was down over twenty-five percent for a couple of days. So if you just do the math, you have a million dollars in the market down twenty-five percent, you just lost a quarter of a million dollars. Yeah. And so we would want to protect that position. So as long as we don't have to pull some of those funds out of the market, you know, eventually that will come back. And then the last box on the reserve is to talk hyper.
17:25.384 Michael Gellman
focus people on operating reserves. And here I do this different for each organization. I do like to write the number months reserve goal. Most organizations have, you know, there's no one set reserve goal for any one organization. The NORI, the National Operating Reserve Initiative project done by the Urban Institute in the United Way, which a lot of people participated in, I participated in that. The only conclusion we could make after five years of studying that thing was that And I'm going say this slowly that organizations have less than three months of their annual budget in operating reserves, so one quarter of their budget put away, are in what we defined as a weakened position. We did not define the optimum position because that's different for organizations. So if you state the opposite of that, that organizations have more than three months of starting to get into a better or stronger position. I think a lot of C three. organizations, you know, publicly supported are in that three to six month range. C six membership organizations like chambers and such more in that six to twelve month range. And so we have a box here we put our goal would be six months. Our actual, well, where are you at? You know, at the end of the last year. Groups that are underwater will be minus two months. Groups that have substantial reserves might have 22 months. Okay. And so just the visual of that And the groups that have over, you know, and they're they're above the reserve goal, they're not gonna throw all those reserves to be used. You know, they might wanna, you know, and for example, I've been using this, I've been bifurcating that and saying we're gonna see, you know, groups that are sitting more than a couple of years will will set aside like no more than 10% up to two months that we can use to support operations over the next thirty to sixty days, but no more. And then we reserve a couple of months just to buffer the market. Because we know that market's going to swing up and down. And so we're trying to reserve, you know, in that organization that had about 24 months of reserves, we're taking about two plus four or six. You know, a quarter of those reserves are in play, part one to to buffer us against the market going up and down, and one to buffer our budget process while we pivot. So that's the first column. The second column is vulnerability of funding sources, and as we discussed in detail.
19:48.984 Michael Gellman
You'll see the three buckets. This I think speaks for itself. Rock solid, vulnerable, and shaky. rock solid is eighty percent to a hundred percent insurrey. These funds are not really affected. The vulnerable are the ones that you know have, you know, fifty to eighty percent effect, you know, that like registrations. I just was talking with a group this morning that was doing a a big marathon race. It's a big race. They get it's one of their second biggest revenue sources. they're going to a virtual online race, but right now, because they're gonna close registrations in about a week, but right now they usually have twelve hundred re registrants. They were down they're going to do it online, but only at two fifty. We'll cap out at like three fifty. You know what I mean? So it's good it's you know, that would go down into the shaky box because that's gonna be more than a fifty percent decline. Okay. Their sponsors are hanging in there.
20:32.777 Brandon Burton
wow.
20:45.422 Michael Gellman
So the sponsorships for the event are actually going to stay up in the rock south. Does that make sense? So you see, and this helps a board say, go to a board and say, we're gonna be down 20%. They're like, I hope so. And but this shows wow, they've really thought about the three different buckets they can see. There's and they're recognizing there's something that might be zero. That this event was canceled. We're getting no registrations on. And then we have vulnerable and then we have rock solid. I really l love this middle bucket. This has been my after I do the assessment on the balance sheet, I go here.
21:21.462 Brandon Burton
Yes. Question and maybe this is maybe a combination of that third column into the second, but where would any new sources of funding fall into? I mean, you may not I I guess if it's a new source, you're introducing it. Hopefully it's rock solid, right? You don't want to introduce a a shaky new funding source.
21:40.622 Michael Gellman
I think Brandon, as you said, I think the new sources really can show up visually in the third column, which is demand. Uh-huh. So there's a demand volatility both up and down. And although organizations tend to have lots of decreased demand, I th I've been finding more and more organizations have both. You know, an event that's cut then canceled or deferred, you know, that's a decrease in demand. But organizations, community based organizations, you know, providing services, there's an increase, you know, the community needs us and they're asking for more services and such. And some of those are leading to other funds. Some of them are leading to funds that are one offs from the federal government. And and the CARES Act, the payroll protection program, PPP. These are sets of funds that we didn't have before, okay. And so they would be a rock solid but a new fund. But I would list those funds in the demand volatility section. Exactly. This is a section to list one, two, three, four, what things are changing. And there's a box here that I don't use for all organizations, but I just want you to see you might find some comfort. It's helping the boards view things not just through the demand, but also whether it's controllable or uncontrollable. And what do I mean by controllable and uncontrollable? This is the last new concept.
22:38.635 Brandon Burton
Okay.
23:01.334 Michael Gellman
Is that some things you don't control. So if the if the governor of your state closed down, you know, all meetings over ten people, you know, an event that was supposed to be scheduled for April 14th isn't not happening. You don't control that. Okay. And it's probably not enough time to even pivot to doing it a different way or something. Now that same event that's supposed to happen on June 14th, you know, that would go into the controllable side. And I just like the I In messaging the boards, I say as we've gone through things, we've bifurcated and we had here's our controllable column, here's our uncontrollable, and in the uncontrollables we're reacting and we're not being shy about pulling back on it and such. So Brandon, you see how, you know, I think this that completes the top section, step one of the three. Yeah. And it's sort of a scorecard. I really like it. It's been invaluable and I think it'll help be a you know a real framework for people.
24:00.856 Brandon Burton
So hopefully if most people hopefully should have filled that out before listening to this, you know, second part of the series. But if not, it may, you know, benefit you to hit pause and and work through this before you you know listen to the how to fill out the rest of the worksheet. Mike, for the for everyone else who who has filled it out, do you want to move on to the to the next steps or do you have another thought you want to?
24:25.11 Michael Gellman
There's four steps. And I think you could be just as effective filling this out after listening to the podcast because it it might not be intuitive and you might based on some of the things you heard, you might change some of the titles of these sections. In general, they'd be the same. so step two is a pretty easy step. Based on that, looking at the balance sheet, you're gonna step, you're gonna check one of the three boxes. You're in a weakened position, which I'm defining as less than three months of operating reserves. You're in a neutral position, you have between three and six months of operating reserves, and you're in a strong position above six months. I do I've done this for a number of chambers. we tend to not have the neutral box and chambers tend to be on the higher side, so we just have a weak or strong. It's really up to you. that can be over 12 months, you know, you'll commen size it. But I do want that s a realistic, I think boards will take comfort. You know, are we in a weak position or are we in a strong position? Okay. Because it affects how you're going to react to what you listed up above. And then step three is where you can list your key action steps and and then you can check the box either super short term. These are things we're going to hit right away. And on the short-term box next to an action step to saying these are going to be sitting right behind the other ones. So we have the benefit of a couple of weeks before we have to do a go-no-go on an event. we can pivot to an online for an event. We can make that delay, not delay. decision and such. So the super short term, short term shows up on your fin your actions, you know, that you're going to take based on the above and get to list those.
26:05.324 Brandon Burton
That makes a lot of sense. And especially as you look at the framework. it it may not make a whole lot of sense for people that are just listening, but again, I highly encourage you to have this framework template in front of you and really makes a lot more sense with everything Mike's sharing with us today. so you've put a lot of thought and effort and energy into really condensing and simplifying this. to be a a framework template for organizations to really see their their strengths, their weaknesses, where those those funding sources are from, what the demand volatility looks like, so they can have a pulse on their organization. Normally towards the the end of the interviews that I do with with everyone is I I ask them how they see the future of chambers going forward. And I think given our our current economic situation and and maybe you with the discussion we've had here on the last couple episodes, maybe we need to shorten our focus and ask the question a little bit differently. maybe as we look at the situation in light of you know what we've discussed today, where would you suggest that a chamber should start so they can make sure that they have continuity as they move forward into the future?
27:29.006 Michael Gellman
Granted, it's a really important question. And, you know, I hate when people look at like I'm a CPA. It's not about the numbers, it's about where we're going. And I think this framework enables us to do one thing, which I call CNT, which is raise confidence and trust. The organization's going to be useful to its members and be around for a long time and be smart about it. So the assessment is a way for us to give the board confidence. That the senior management team has taken a thoughtful and objective approach to quantify near-term decision making with a conservative bias of protecting the organization's financial position, which will have the biggest chance of helping to ensure that we stay a safe and healthy organization going forward. During a chance of what's in the title, hyperchange, which, you know. I can't even predict where we're gonna be on you know, two days from now, you know, let alone where real planning happens, which is months and years down the road.
28:35.786 Brandon Burton
It's definitely a time of hyper change, a time to really have a pulse on on our organizations and be able to do the best that we can that's within our control. So the things that are outside of our control don't dominate what our our outlook and future looks like and to be able to to have that continuity. So Mike, I I want to thank you for spending time with us for the really these last two episodes. I think you've brought a lot of value that it is very timely for organizations, for chambers that are listening right now. If someone listening wanted to reach out or get in contact with you about what was discussed here or to maybe further this discussion or explore these ideas maybe offline, what would be the best way for them to to reach out and get in touch with you?
29:26.904 Michael Gellman
Thank you, Brendan. two ways. my you can find me through Fiscal Strategies for Nonprofits. is the is the founding organization. I would also encourage you to go to the new free platform Sustainability Education for Nonprofits, which is S E. S isn't Sam, E isn't education, the number four, nonprofits with an S dot com. articles related to this, the w the the the framework worksheet is here. email contact information is there. other collaborators who are working on the website are there with me. Ben Benjamin Takis is an attorney, really teaching alongside him for many years, and the legal and financial sides always bleed over into each other. We're posting articles, we're posting weekly thoughts, we're posting QA's. And then we're posting various things like the template worksheet, framework worksheet under the resource section.
30:31.968 Brandon Burton
All right. And I will I'll get both of those websites updated on the show notes page. again, chamber chat podcast.com slash episode sixty-eight. I I definitely would encourage everybody to check out sustainability education for nonprofits. So that's the SE four number four nonprofits dot com. A lot of good valuable information there. Mike's putting up regular content that's very timely. So please check that out. and and follow his his post there and as it it will be very relevant to you and and to your organization. But again, thank you, Mike. Thanks again for for spending the time today. And I hope that everyone listening got a lot of value out of what you had to share and and the the real thought that you've put into this.
31:21.26 Michael Gellman
Thank you, Brandon. I really enjoyed this. I I hope people reach out, call me, email me. I every situation is new. I learned from you as well. And hopefully we can battle together and get through this.
31:33.888 Brandon Burton
If you are a Chamber Professional, please subscribe to Chamber Chat Podcast in Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or Spotify. When you subscribe to Chamber Chat Podcast, new episodes will show up in your podcast app each week as they are released. If you're finding value in this podcast, please leave us a rating and a review in iTunes. But most importantly, please share Chamber Chat Podcast with your colleagues that are in the industry.

This transcript has been lightly edited for readability and to correct obvious transcription errors while preserving the meaning of the original conversation.

Episode 67 — Responding to Financial Impact Amid Hyper-Change with Michael Gellman
Clean Speaker-Labeled Transcript
Guest: Michael Gellman
Automated QA: Passed

00:00.108 Brandon Burton
Hey there, just real quick before we get into this episode, this is Brandon, and I just wanted to share a quick message. If you are listening to this, chances are good that you are a chamber professional. And guaranteed, if you're listening to this, you also listen to podcasts. Have you considered creating a podcast for your chamber and all the benefits that that can bring? Check out my free chamber podcasting guide at chamberchatpodcast.com/slash podcasting. to learn how you can get started with your own chamber podcast. This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.
00:44.494 Michael Gellman
And now your host, he has fun thinking about new business ideas. He's my dad, Brandon Burton.
00:55.246 Brandon Burton
Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. This is Brandon Burton, and it is my goal to help introduce you to people and ideas so you can better serve your chamber members and your community. And you're joining us today for episode number 67. And today I have one of those people on the podcast as a guest that will help introduce some of these ideas that will allow you to continue to serve your community in in better ways. And our guest today is Michael Gelman. Michael has a passion for serving nonprofit organizations, and he helps develop a strong financial base for these organizations. He's the founder of Fiscal Strategies for Nonprofits and Sustainability Education for Nonprofits. He regularly teaches adjunct classes in nonprofit management for Georgetown University and conducts numerous seminars. on budgeting, fiscal and financial sustainability, effective financial messaging, and strategic planning for exempt organizations for national and local nonprofit organizations, including the U.S. Chamber of Commerce Institute for Organizational Management. Our discussion today with Michael, we're actually going to be breaking this up into two episodes because he's got some great stuff to discuss with chambers throughout the country and really s maybe some preparatory work and some follow-up on it. But our our topic of discussion is going to be on responding to financial impact amid hyper change. And we will get into this discussion with Michael as soon as we get back from hearing from our sponsor.
02:45.326 Brandon Burton
During this time of uncertainty, most chambers are looking for ways to replace funding from events and programs that either been canceled or postponed due to social distancing that does not allow for us to meet as large groups. Another topic that is top of mind for chambers is how to help their member businesses recover from the financial impact their businesses experienced. With these considerations in mind, I want to introduce you to Swipe It. Swipe It offers a credit card processing affinity program for Chambers of Commerce that can help answer your questions about how to replace some of your lost revenue while also allowing for you to serve as an advocate to your member businesses by introducing them to a resource that can save them money on their credit card processing fees so they can become more profitable. Swipe It has been a supporter of Chamber Chat Podcasts from the beginning. And they are the best in the credit card processing business. Visit ChamberTappodcast.com slash CC, which stands for credit card, to learn how you can get swiping with Swipe It. Okay, Mike. We are back. If you would please take a moment to tell us a little bit about your background, and maybe a little more detailed than what I shared, and maybe share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little bit better.
04:13.522 Michael Gellman
Thank you, Brandon. and really looking forward to joining the discussion here today. And it is a discussion. as I like to always say to myself, I am a CPA. I've spent most of my career in public accounting up until a few years ago. But I started out my career and I've only worked with nonprofits. And I always like to say I come from your side of the table and that I started out working with nonprofits as an intern back when I was in college. I caught the bug and I f I think of myself first and foremost as a project manager that comes at it from the financial side. been in public accounting but never been that traditional auditor tax preparer. I do work in and around the nine nineties as a messaging tool. And some of you might have been in my classes. I talk about, you know, telling the good story through the nine ninety. But think of myself as a CFO, sitting between a CFO and a CSO, a chief financial officer and a chief strategy officer. looking at you know through the lens of financial fiscal impact on on organizations in and around short and intermediate planning, C-suite, mission delivery, and the key key one sustainability, although this definition on sustainability has really changed recently. Get to work with nonprofits all domestically, both with NGOs outside the US. About two and a half years ago, set up fiscal strategies for nonprofits. Got out of the public accounting world just because it was a very successful but really crazy time and wanted to be able to s you know concentrate on the fiscal financial side and not into the accounting systems and and such. And that's where we st started fiscal strategies for nonprofits and we focus in and around the subjects I just talked about. And Brandon will give you a link to that website. More recently we started a an or a a web platform that's called sustainability education for nonprofits. And a lot of the information we're going to discuss here today, I encourage you to go to that website. You'll be able to see free articles, tools, resources, Q and A's, weekly thoughts. And we're posting to that multiple times during the week. and that'll be a an excellent free resource for you.
06:27.542 Michael Gellman
And then around the legal, fiscal, financial, and governance aspects for nonprofit organizations. I spend I split my time between working with different boards and nonprofit organizations and teaching. And as Brandon said, I I teach over at Georgetown University, and of course in the chamber world, I teach in the IOM Institute. And I'm doing a lot of different classes in for ASAE and the CAE program and different organizations like. the National Urban League, Volunteers of America and and such.
07:02.016 Brandon Burton
Right. Great background. I'm gonna go ahead and put your the address for the sustainability education for nonprofits now. So if people want to go check that out, it's S E and then the number four, nonprofits.com. And we'll have another mention to that later on in the in the episode here. But our our topic, as I mentioned and kind of the introduction, is that we're gonna be talking to how we can respond. To the financial impact specifically for your organization amid the hyperchange that we're seeing right now in our environment. And Mike has a great demonstration or maybe a tutorial, if you will, about how to really assess how you know what the strength of your financial outlook looks like at your organization, and to be able to kind of work through a framework that will help. To to keep you sustainable going into the future. So some of these objectives that we'll go over throughout our discussion, and and like I mentioned, this will be a two-part podcast episode. But some of these objectives is we'll talk about how hyperchange impacts planning and decision making. We'll talk about whether or not your organization is well positioned, financially healthy, and strategically ready for a sustained period of stress and uncertainty. We'll also talk about how hyperchange impacts your funding sources and programming and services that you offer. We'll talk about the strategies for organizations who are financially strong versus organizations that are financially weak, and talk about how to effectively communicate with your board and the important actions that will affect the financial health and continuity of your organization. So with that kind of outlook and those objectives, that's kind of what you can expect to get out of this discussion that we that we have with Mike. And so Mike, I know you have this this broken up into kind of a five phase action plan. Do you wanna maybe hit on what those five points are and then we can kind of start working our way through them?
09:25.974 Michael Gellman
Sure, Brendan. And the five points are finding a starting point. And I do want to reserve a few minutes to talk about that starting point. There's a couple of things I think we can impart for everybody that will be really helpful. The second part of it, which will take up the bulk of the time we're going to talk about here on this podcast, is the three key critical factors to consider and plan around. And I want to be able to talk about the three critical factors, break them down, how they relate, and how they will help you in your thinking process and and the keyword there will be back to this framework. Brandon, I think it's not too early to state that there will be a framework template we'll be referring to. And then the second part of the podcast, the second series number sixty-eight, we will actually spend part of that time walking you through the framework document.
10:15.916 Brandon Burton
That's right. And that that framework document will have access to it on our show notes page at chamberchatpodcast.com slash episode sixty seven. So you can download that and kind of go through what Mike walks us through and to be able to be prepared for episode sixty eight, which will come out next week. But go ahead and and take us through the other the other points of yeah. Yeah.
10:38.744 Michael Gellman
Point number three will be the timing and implementation. And there's a couple really interesting things I think will help you in your thinking process of feedback on this part. Number three has been really good across the country. Number four, we're going to take a quick look at operating reserves, because that's the one of the best indicators of financial health and gives us what the critical benchmark we need to be able to communicate, assess, and watch over oversight. And then the final piece, number five, will be going through a framework. Because we're a very disruptive time. I think it gives great comfort to people just know that there's a framework out there to follow, you know, a path. But framework is, you know, a thoughtful path, but it also implies that we will be constantly adjusting the framework and and such. And it's in the form of a one page dashboard, which I think really helps. I'm a big believer in short dashboards to communicate financial information. And that's there for your use and I use it myself all the time.
11:40.65 Brandon Burton
All right. So that that gives a good outlook as to or a good framework if you if we want to keep using that word of of what to expect throughout these these two episodes here. So let's let's go back to number one in this five phase action plan, finding a starting point. So what does that mean and and just expand on that?
11:58.85 Michael Gellman
Yeah, I think you know, I just want to spend a couple of minutes here on this. It's if you step back and look at this disruptive time and then there are parallels, you know, back we're gonna talk a little bit about, you know, the disruption that happened around nine eleven. We're gonna talk a little bit about the disruption that happened coming out of the banking crisis crisis in two thousand eight, nine and such, but each one has differences. It just gets overwhelming when you try to bring in all the elements of that. so finding a starting point, I feel there's a comfort zone. I am a CPA, I'm a finance person, but I want to tell you that the starting point here is that we need to overweight all management decisions. I'm gonna say this slow. Overweight favor all management decisions through a lens of how it impacts financial health, your financial position, your financial capabilities of the organization. And the reason I say that. And I was immensely changed by nine eleven and the banking crisis. And the one place that we got things wrong because was is that how deep and how long those crises were. And organizations that had financial resources look back and they said they probably burned through more of those than they should before they started pulling back because they didn't understand how long we couldn't anticipate how long and how how the recovery and how was going to change their operations. So they relied a little bit too much, in some cases a lot too much, on their operating reserves. And we're going to talk about this concept of weak financial weakness versus financial strength. And it's burned through those reserves. And the organizations were in a financially weak position that don't have reserves didn't pivot quickly enough to be able to right size the organization because there's an underlying concept, Brandon, through all these things that we assume that we want the organization to be able to come out the other side. And I'm not going to necessarily always be stronger because that would be naive, but to come out in a position to continue on, you know, nonprofit organizations, there's this dilemma we have up front on the starting point, is that the demand always exceeds what the capability of a nonprofit can do. And if you think about it globally, there's some of the issues we deal with, there's not enough money on the planet to handle. And so I come back to this thing. In order to help the most people have the most of impact.
14:22.936 Michael Gellman
Whatever your mission is, is to ensure that the organization will be around for as long a time as possible. And so I always say to volunteers, interns, staff, managers, C-suite, board members, even constituents, that the one thing we can all do is we can help make an organization a little bit financially stronger later on than when we got there. Leave that organization two, three, four years later in a better financial position. It's gonna be really hard during this eruptive period, but we don't wanna wreak havoc on an organization by bleeding through all the financial assets that have and organizations are weak, getting into a point where they're so far underwater that they might not be able to recover. So under this, there's just three points to make that one, we're in a very highly uncertain period. Two, we're gonna overprotect our financial position right now till we can start to see where recovery is and where we're going. And so that leads us to as we make these important decisions that we want to heavily weight towards that financial impact of those decisions. Do we move a program from, you know, an in-person program to online? Do we cancel something? Do we, you know, and we're gonna talk about that. So that's the concept. And you know, what we don't control, well, I'm gonna talk about controllable and uncontrollable in a little bit, is we don't un we don't understand as we can see just over the last three, four weeks, the pace of change that is happening related to COVID nineteen. Okay. The scope of the change and the impact. You know, there's the the medical side and then there's the economic side. And I am really I want and hope and pray we get through the medical side of this as quick as we can. The economic side of this, that fallout's gonna be here for a a while. And so based on that the impact of that change.
16:13.55 Brandon Burton
Well, and talk about the uncertainty. I know we've we've spoken a couple of times leading up to this interview, and it seems like every time we talk, something has changed, amid the the COVID nineteen pandemic. So it is a a time of change, it's a time of uncertainty, and it's a time where we need to be nimble and be able to pivot to be able to continue on and to be there once all this kind of passes over and to to not burn through. those reserves too quickly and and you know everything else that you're talking about. So let's let's get in maybe a little more detail on these the three factors, the those three keys to consider and plan around.
16:55.79 Michael Gellman
Thank you, Brenda. And you'll see these on the framework template. And the order of these is important. I'm going to state the first the three factors, and then I'm going to go back and we'll spend a few minutes exploring each one. We will cycle back to this in the second episode and explore them in more detail as we walk through the framework. Okay, step number one, and the order is very important, we'll be going through a financial health assessment. Is your organization in a financially strong position or what I like to think of it as a financially weak position? We'll talk about the strengths and weaknesses and and and what that is. the one concept I do want to talk about before I leave to the second step is that you know fn organizations that are in a stronger position have a whole different set of options and tactics that they can pursue versus an organization that's in that financially weak position, struggling to pay bills, struggling to get from pay period to pay period. Okay. Step number two, and I really believe in this step is very important to have a unique way to look at it, is looking at the vulnerability of your funding sources, the cash inflows, how funds flow into your organization, and how the coronavirus has impacted that. And then step three is a different volatility factor, and that's looking at demand volatility pressure. And what I mean by demand volatility pressure is that there's increasing and decreasing, and usually both are happening. And organizations on demands for services, demands for services to recipients, programs, memberships, events, and such. And they can be going in different directions. I've seen many organizations where events are being canceled in the short term, left and right. Meanwhile, their constituents are asking for more services in other areas, and then how they're gonna pivot to you know, and how they're gonna pivot. From basically in person events to online events and how that affects demand and the pricing and such. So to repeat the three steps. Step one is doing a financial health assessment. Step two is doing an assessment on your vulnerability or funding sources. And step three is to look step back and look how demands are going up and down in various areas. And that can be for grants too.
19:15.106 Brandon Burton
That's right. And I just it's interesting how you're touching on all these things. I just recently had Sherri Ann Kelly on the podcast from ACCE and she talked a lot about the the programming and things that the chambers have. And as you look at your calendar for the year, she had mentioned that you probably don't want to just move forward with exactly how your calendar was set up, just in a virtual sense rather than in person. So depending on the needs of your community and the feedback that you're getting. You may need to alter what those events and services are that you have to offer. Just I think is kind of to your point, as you look at the vulnerability and kind of the volatility on these events and programmings and services. What do you need to look at? What can continue on? What just needs to shift in the delivery? And what needs a complete pivot altogether? So this this framework worksheet that that Mike keeps alluding to is is very valuable to be able to look at and have this real overview. yeah, I see it as the kind of the thirty thousand foot you know view to look down and see the health of your organization, the financial health, to see these three steps and kind of take you through a very methodical way to to plan and move forward.
20:32.524 Michael Gellman
So, Brendan, if I we have time, I would like to spend just a two minutes to a give a little bit of the the metrics under and the thought process under those three sections. And then we can pivot ourselves to episode number sixty-eight. Okay. So step number one on the financial health, quick the purpose here, and you know this is always on my top ten list for nonprofit organizations. I wish they'd pay attention to.
20:48.482 Brandon Burton
That's right.
21:01.408 Michael Gellman
Is the financial health of a nonprofit only shows up on the balance sheet, nowhere else, and not on the budget and income statements. Yep, nonprofits have tunnel vision on their budget reports and which they should and how that's doing. And budgeting going forward is going to take up change, and we'll talk about that in a little bit in the next episode. so pivoting back to the the balance sheet, we in that step one on the framework, we take you to a quick and out, take a quick look at, and you can see that. If your balance sheet's in a strong position or a weak position. And the poster child for that is if you have operating reserves. Strong financial organizations that have built up operating reserves over many years, that puts them in a different position to how to plan and maybe how to put some of those reserves for use. We're going to talk a little bit more about that in episode 68. the weak organizations that are in a weak position, they have cash flow issues, counts payable have been growing. they, you know, they live from pay period to pay period, or they might have some cash, but down in their net assets section, restricted funds way out exceed unrestricted or without restricted funds and such. And that's what we think we call those actually what I like to call them underwater organizations because they're relying you know, they're s you know, you're not supposed to be using restricted funds until you expend them on programs. And if your unrestricted funds are in negative territory. you know, by default you're there. So those organizations are financially weak, they got to move very quickly to you know, cost containments and strategies that organizations that have some funds they least have the choice of how to maybe use some of those funds during an uncertain time. And we'll talk about that a little bit more. the second one is an interesting concept and you'll visually see this with the framework worksheet when we pull it up in the sep second episode. Is looking at
22:29.206 Brandon Burton
Yeah.
22:56.01 Michael Gellman
your the vulnerability your funding sources. And let me tell you what I don't want you to do. I don't want you to stand up in front of your board and say, well we think overall we're going to be okay. Funding's going to be down 20%, but we'll be okay. And it looks like it's just a random guess how things are going to you know, and you and it's a poor message. So what the there's one concept under the vulnerability and it's c I call it retention sensitivity. And we take a look and we take a look at our funding sources and we put them into one of three buckets. Bucket number one, you can change whatever you want to call it, but I like to call it the rock solid. Those are funding sources that might not be impacted too much by COVID-19. They might be if you're a membership organization and you renew membership on a 1231 year, well, they might your memberships might already be in. If you're a June 30 membership year and your memberships are getting ready to start a new renewal cycle, I could be hugely at risk right now. So the timing. So some organizations, the membership could be in the rock solid. That would be bucket number one. Bucket number two or vulnerable. Okay. And then bucket number three is shaky. So we've got rock solid, vulnerable, shaky. You'll see on the worksheet, you know, I I put 80 to 100% in rock solid that were pretty set on those. I put the 50 to 80 percent in the in the vulnerable section. Maybe a membership shows up there. And then shaky would be zero to fifty percent. So an event that was supposed to to happen on April 12th has been canceled. Maybe you haven't even been able to pivot that to do that online. And that could be in that zero to 50% where that the the the sponsorships and revenue sources, the registrations for that event might be turned off. Okay. And so just to repeat one more time real quick it's a sensitivity assessment on the vulnerability income. And we're we're we're putting that in what I call trifecation into three buckets. Rock solid vulnerable and shaky.
24:53.694 Brandon Burton
And like you had alluded to, when you go to the board and say, It looks like we're gonna be down twenty percent this year, if you can take this to them and say, Here's what our rock solid funding sources are, vulnerable, shaky, this is why we're gonna be down twenty percent, it's gonna give your board a whole lot more confidence in that you know what you're talking about as you're presenting this to them.
25:15.872 Michael Gellman
Exact confidence and it adds that in something that's sort of an impossible situation, we're being thoughtful and we have a framework. So and that and it adds a sense of calmness. And then Brandon, very briefly, the third bucket, and not that they're least important, but I do say this for the third analysis is demand pressure sensitivity. You know, what is it going what are the volume changes? You know, and there are to be volume changes. And for some organizations I've seen already, they're having increases in volume. And there's others You know, we're having decreases. We sort of concentrate on the top four or five at the organization. Obviously, you'll be looking at everything, but on the framework, we don't want to over get down to minutia with the board. And there's one more new concept under this demand. and I use this with about this demand sensitivity. I use this with about half of my organizations. It's a concept of controllable and uncontrollable. I think it helps boards to see things through your own eyes. There's certain things we're reacting to that we do not control. An event is canceled for April 12th. There's nothing we can do about that. And we don't even have time to pivot that event to online. But a a similar event that's supposed to be happening on June 12th, I would put in the control bolt because there we have a chance to pivot, change it, delay it, defer it, whatever we want to do, cancel it, you know, and such. But an event happening on April 12th, the decision was made for us. It's been canceled. venue, we can't get people together.
26:44.706 Brandon Burton
What kind of time frame would you look at when you're trying to determine what's controllable and uncontrollable? Because I think, you know, a month ago, an event on April twelfth may have seemed very controllable and then all of a sudden disaster happens and it becomes uncontrollable.
27:02.114 Michael Gellman
Yeah, that's a good point, Brandon, that you're bringing up. I don't think of it more as a time period. I think of it as helping boards and outsiders see that we've gone through this thoughtful process and we've moved activities, events, and important decisions into a controllable versus uncontrollable. Okay. And the ones that are in the uncontrollable, we have to pivot and move really fast. So controllable ones, we need thought processes, how we're going to do it, you know, and such.
27:29.985 Brandon Burton
Okay, makes sense.
27:31.896 Michael Gellman
So that brings us to the the first two segments that we wanted to cover, which is finding a starting point, favoring you know, all these important decisions we're making, how they how we how they impact financial position. And then point number two, which is the three key factors, in and so assessing financial strength, assessing the vulnerability of funding sources, and assessing changes in demand.
27:58.924 Brandon Burton
That is perfect. So this is a a good breaking point where we will take a break and resume on our next episode. But in the in between, as you wrap up this episode, I want to encourage everyone listening to please go to the show notes page, again, chamberchatpodcast.com slash episode sixty-seven. And nice and bold on that show notes page, we'll have a link to this financial health assessment framework worksheet. it would serve you well, serve your chamber well for you to go and print this out and do a little bit of homework before you come back for episode sixty eight. So as as Mike takes us through these remaining steps, that you'll be able to see you'll have this assessment and be able to have this kind of snapshot of your your financial health, how strong or weak you are, and then what you can do from there with that. So we'll We'll hit pause from here and look forward to picking up this discussion with you all again next week. If you are a Chamber professional, please subscribe to Chamber Chat Podcast in Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or Spotify. When you subscribe to Chamber Chat Podcast, new episodes will show up in your podcast app each week as they are released. If you're finding value in this podcast, please leave us a rating and a review in iTunes. But most importantly, please share Chamber Chat Podcast with your colleagues that are in the industry.

This transcript has been lightly edited for readability and to correct obvious transcription errors while preserving the meaning of the original conversation.

Episode 64 — Navigating a Worldwide Pandemic with Sheree Anne Kelly
Clean Speaker-Labeled Transcript
Guest: Sheree Anne Kelly
Automated QA: Passed

00:00.15 Brandon Burton
Hey there, just real quick before we get into this episode, this is Brandon and I just wanted to share a quick message. If you are listening to this, chances are good that you are a chamber professional. And guaranteed if you're listening to this, you also listen to podcasts. Have you considered creating a podcast for your chamber and all the benefits that that can bring? Check out my free chamber podcasting guide at chamberchatpodcast.com slash podcasting. To learn how you can get started with your own chamber podcast. This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.
00:47.074 Sheree Anne Kelly
And now your host, he is thankful to live in a country that respects the freedom of religion. He's my dad, Brandon Burton.
00:53.644 Brandon Burton
Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. This is Brandon Burton, and you're tuning in today for episode 64 of Chamber Chat Podcast. And it is my goal as you tune in and listen to help introduce you to people and ideas so you can better serve your chamber members and your community. And today our guest is Sherry Ann Kelly, which a lot of you are going to be very familiar with Sherry Ann. But Sherri Ann is the chief executive of the Association of Chamber of Commerce Executives, representing more than 10,000 industry professionals. She's responsible for leading the team, which serves a community via professional development, innovative problem solving, best practices, and industry thought leadership. Previously, Sherri Ann was senior vice president of the Public Affairs Council and executive director of their foundation. During her sixteen years at the Global Association, she served as chief public affairs expert and oversaw thought leadership, consulting and benchmarking services. During her tenure, she opened the council's first international office in Brussels. Prior roles included positions in the Government Affairs Department of the National Association of Home Builders and serving on the corporate development and corporate relations team at the U. S. Chamber of Commerce. Sherri Ann holds an MBA from Georgetown, a Masters of Arts in Government from Johns Hopkins, and a Bachelor's of Arts from Bucknell University. Current industry leadership roles include serving on the Executive Committee of the World Chambers Federation and as a member of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce's Chamber Committee of 100. She is also a board member of the Anglichef Institute. on comparative political and economic systems and immediate past chair of the Buckmill Institute for Public Policy. I'm excited to have Sherrianne with us today, especially in this time as this recording is is taking place on the tenth of April 2020. So we're right in the midst of the the COVID nineteen pandemic and Sheryan will
03:19.798 Brandon Burton
share some thoughts with us on how to navigate through a worldwide pandemic and we will get into this discussion as soon as we get back from hearing from our sponsor. During this time of uncertainty, most chambers are looking for ways to replace funding from events and programs that either been canceled or postponed due to social distancing that does not allow for us to meet as large groups. Another topic that is top of mind for Chambers is how to help their member businesses recover from the financial impact their businesses experienced. With these considerations in mind, I want to introduce you to Swipe It. Swipe It offers a credit card processing affinity program for Chambers of Commerce that can help answer your questions about how to replace some of your lost revenue. while also allowing for you to serve as an advocate to your member businesses by introducing them to a resource that can save them money on their credit card processing fees so they can become more profitable. Swipe It has been a supporter of Chamberchat Podcasts from the beginning and they are the best in the credit card processing business. Visit Chamberchat Podcast dot com slash C C, which stands for credit card, to learn how you can get swiping With swipe it.
04:46.286 Brandon Burton
Okay, Sherry Ann, we are back and before we jump into our our topic for discussion today, would you just take a minute and say hello to the audience, maybe share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little bit better?
05:01.152 Sheree Anne Kelly
Sure. Brandon, thanks so much for having me. I I really appreciate it. I know it's a pleasure to just be able to share some of the great things that we've been hearing out in the community. a little bit about me. I run and I hike, which is handy during a pandemic when you can't do many other things. I've been trying to come up with some creative projects to entertain myself. so my next project that I'll be working on is bacon-infused bourbon. So I guess that's sort of interesting. I I often think my son's more interesting than I am. he's 12. He's actually elite baby, so he had a real birthday this year. and I've been managing his homeschooling like so many other parents have been out there while I'm also working from home. So I have a recommendation for all the parents out there. if you're trying to manage your own art class, I highly recommend the old Bob Ross painting videos, which my son and I have been doing together on Netflix. So that's my recommendation.
05:59.156 Brandon Burton
That's awesome. So you mentioned you're a runner and a hiker. Have you noticed during this time as you go outside and you come across other runners and hikers? Do you guys like separate across the street or across the path and like keep your distance?
06:17.09 Sheree Anne Kelly
We sure do, you know, and I I've found a way to make that happen even more so. So I didn't have a face mask, which has now been mandated in my county. You actually have to wear face masks if you're out in public. I didn't have a normal one, but my son had a cloth face mask that has shark teeth on it. So I've been wearing that when I go outside. And I tell you, people will walk a wide arc around somebody with a shark tooth mask. So that's been very handy.
06:44.364 Brandon Burton
That's right. That is good. well, for I I think the listeners to ChamberThat Podcast are very familiar with ACCE, but would you like to maybe expand on what ACCE has to offer and maybe some things about the organization that the average person may not know, or maybe someone who's not necessarily a member of ACC might might not know or understand about the organization.
07:12.152 Sheree Anne Kelly
Sure. So we represent chambers all over the US, but we also have international members as well. We have 1,600 organizations that belong to our association. We're known very much for our professional development. We host the country's largest convention for chamber executives. We've got lots of best practices and sample materials on our website. We also host Really great networking groups. So CEOs of chambers from similar sizes can get together and talk about challenges and opportunities. But we also bring together chamber executives with different expertise. So if you're in membership or government relations or workforce and talent or communications or event planning, we've got groups that get together and talk about what works and what doesn't. We also offer benchmarking data. So if you want to hear about benchmarking salaries or budget. Benchmarking, we've got all of that information available. We offer retirement and insurance benefits. We do custom consulting. We are headquartered in Alexandria, Virginia, but we actually have team members who are scattered across the US. I think one of the areas that people don't realize about ACCE is that our staff experts are really our number one resource. They spend the vast majority of their time out in the field figuring out what works and what doesn't. And if you're a member of our organization, you have access. To them in an unlimited capacity. So it's that's probably one of the things most people don't realize you can take advantage of.
08:41.92 Brandon Burton
That is great and good good background information for everyone to to pay attention to. Now, in the introduction I'd I'd mentioned the topic that we'll be discussing today being that of navigating a in a worldwide pandemic. And as we are recording this, a lot of people are officing out of their their home. They're they have stay at home orders, things of that nature. I myself am actually recording this right now in my closet. So just that that disclaimer that I do have four kids and they're somewhere around the house. So at some point, hopefully, I mean, mom knows to keep away, but I've got some little ones, so they may come barging in the closet door. So just just a fair warning, but I think a lot of people can relate. So Sharianne, in in your position and and with ACCE, what what are some of those things that you can suggest or maybe those tips and pointers that you've been sharing with with chambers across the country about how to help them navigate as maybe maybe we start with with how they how they interact with their community and getting good information out there.
10:01.974 Sheree Anne Kelly
Sure. you know, these are really challenging times. And I know for a lot of chambers out there it's it's scary, especially if you don't have strong reserves, if you've never had to navigate a a large scale challenge if you weren't running a chamber, say, in you know, 2008. but I'm also realizing it's there's never been a more clear purpose for chambers. It's never been a better time to really showcase the value. of a chamber of commerce than right now. And I'm seeing this everywhere. Just really creative ways to help your community, creative ways to help small businesses in your area. I've seen great outside the box thinking. And this is really a time to engage that creative side of your brain to think in a whole new way about how do we deliver services, making sure you're focused on your core value proposition, and just being a catalytic leader. In your community. I'm just, it's been fantastic to witness this. And I'll definitely highlight some of the creative things I've seen as far as chambers helping out their communities. One thing I wanted to mention before I hop into that is obviously a lot of chambers realize through the stimulus packages that have come out recently, Chambers of Commerce and all C6 associations were. Sort of skimmed over in some of the best benefits that were offered in those stimulus packages. So we are fighting very hard to get C6s included in the next round of stimulus, which we're hearing we may get language on that very, very soon. One of the best things that we can do to try to educate our legislators on what chambers really do is to share the stories that you are encountering in your community. So if your chamber is helping small business or is helping to get one of your local businesses to support pandemic efforts, make sure you showcase that and you put it out on social media. You can even tag your federal legislators to let them know chambers are on the front lines and they are making huge differences in their communities. And so we deserve the kind of support that other organizations have gotten in the stimulus package. If you go on our website we have some guidance on
12:24.415 Sheree Anne Kelly
exactly how to do that and how to tag your legislator in your posts. And we're using the hashtag Chamberstrong in order to track those stories.
12:33.992 Brandon Burton
Hashtag cham Chamber Strong, you said, right? you know, it's interesting. Just a a few weeks ago I I had a guest on the the podcast, Sarah O'Brien, and she's a a consultant, but her whole episode was about purpose statements for chambers and really defining what the purpose of of an individual chamber, what it is. And then all of this started to unfold, and it's like, man, this is really identifying what the purpose and the value is of a chamber. And it's being able to be seen on a huge level where before it was the the local businesses that would, you know, kind of get familiar with the chamber. And but now, I mean, entire communities can see the value of a chamber. So I think that's a really important point that you brought up and being able to engage that creative side of our brain. It's it's no longer the day-to-day business as usual, but it's seeing where where can you bring that value. to the business community and and to the the community at large really to be able to sustain some kind of a a strength and and maybe help define what that new normal might look like.
13:46.412 Sheree Anne Kelly
Absolutely. And I what we've realized is there has been a lot of misconception and misunderstanding about what chambers do. And that's part of the reason that we were left out of the stimulus package. There was this misconception that all chambers do is lobby for business, which couldn't be further from the truth. And so the more we can share those stories of innovation, of creative problem solving, of business support. of you know community engagement and community development, the more we can talk about that in a very public way, the more we can showcase that chambers do bring this strength, especially in a time of crisis. So there yeah, there are some fantastic stories about community support. So I'm just going to run through some of the creative things that I've seen from chambers that hopefully might get some of the listeners thinking creatively about what you can do.
14:39.754 Brandon Burton
That would be great. Some some examples would be awesome.
14:42.828 Sheree Anne Kelly
Yeah, I'm a practical, tactical kind of person. So so one of the best things that I'm seeing chambers do right now is sharing really easy, simple resources on what is available to help your local businesses. You know, the SBA loans that are available, idle loans, PPP loans, showcasing which community lenders are available, hosting webinars that discuss exactly how you can apply for these loans, simplifying what's out there. You can certainly put up a link to more information about these loans, but really making it very, very easy for your members to get that information, I think is so helpful. One of the best things I've seen chambers take on is opening up who they're helping. So not just focusing on your members, but every business in your community. Because right now everybody's in need, it's crisis time, and your non-member success is just as critical to your community as your members' success. And what may happen down the road is you've made this connection, you've helped this non-member, you've probably got their email address because you've connected with them. And later on, if they're in a good financial position, they'd be an ideal prospect to reach out to. So that's something to think about of expanding. The scope of your service to weave in some of those non-members. A lot of chambers are also picking up the phone and calling all of their members. They're training their staff on what kinds of general scripts they should be following, and then reaching out and having that human touch with members. That's been incredibly successful for a lot of folks. Just because you get the chance to have some back and forth, you can hear more specifically about. what challenges they're facing or what opportunities you might be able to step in and help out on. And we have sample scripts open to anybody on our website. We have a coronavirus resource page that includes templates, sample communications, policy changes for event cancellations, lots of good information there, but we have sample scripts for calls as well.
16:53.548 Brandon Burton
I'll I'll try to get those scripts up on the show notes page too, so people that are listening can easily access that and point to your website as well.
17:01.966 Sheree Anne Kelly
Perfect. One other thing we've seen is chambers surveying their members so that they've got good data on what's happening to your business. Are your doors open? Are they closed? Have you been able to get loan funding? What are your needs? How many employees do you have? And that information not only helps the chamber figure out what kinds of services and benefits you can offer, but we're finding that a lot of local government officials don't have good data on what's happening with their businesses. So the chamber can provide this, which in turn can help our elected officials make smarter decisions about what's needed in our communities. So surveying is another great opportunity.
17:42.382 Brandon Burton
Yeah, and and I've seen I'm I'm a member of several chambers and I've seen several of the surveys going out asking just that. Are you open? You know, what capacity, you know, how how's the outlook for you as a business? but hearing that chambers are actually picking up the phone and calling every member, I think that's a whole different level of gathering information, getting the feedback and showing the care that the chamber has for each individual member. I think that is huge. But Either way, either way you're collecting data and figuring out how you can best serve those members is gonna be so valuable. But I didn't mean to cut you off. Go ahead.
18:16.716 Sheree Anne Kelly
Know that I think humanizing your organization by having that personal connection makes such a difference, especially in difficult times. Sometimes your members just want to be able to vent, or they don't have someone in their sort of immediate circle who understands what they're going through. So you can be sometimes just that good listener, but also a resource with ideas or somebody who can brainstorm with them as well. We've seen some really interesting. Models where also chambers have created hotlines for their local businesses. They've have either retrained some of their staff on answering basic questions around what kinds of loans are available or what sorts of resources are going to be most helpful for their community. But some chambers have also engaged outside experts, whether it's members from law firms or members from communications groups. I even have one chamber that leveraged the local university staff from their business department to help answer questions for small businesses so they have an immediate resource that they can call into. So that's been a really interesting model. obviously funding is a huge issue. A lot of small businesses need access to capital right away. and while the SBA has great loans out there, it's not the the money isn't getting into people's hands immediately. And it hasn't, it's been a little bumpy as to what Amount of money people actually receive. So we have seen some chambers set up disaster grants and bridge loans for their local businesses. So some chambers that have a separate 501c3 foundation are finding local organizations that are willing to gift money, or sometimes they're working with their city officials to find funding so that they can get. capital into the hands of those small businesses right away, with the chamber being the conduit and sort of the number one go-to source of that funding. So that's another really creative opportunity that we've seen.
20:20.076 Brandon Burton
Very creative and important. Because I think you know, as you talked about access to these federal disaster loans and everything, just a a real life example that I learned of this morning. So a friend of ours has a a small medical practice and they had applied you know, their businesses way down right now, as you can imagine. I mean, well, I don't know. Maybe you maybe you don't imagine. Maybe you think everyone's getting sick, so the medical offices are full, but but theirs is very slow right now. And they were one of the first to apply for the the federal disaster loan and you know talks about the ten th up to ten thousand dollar grant and I think a lot of people see that and think, my small business will get a ten thousand dollar grant to help me out. Well, their funding came through today and it was it was like fifty four hundred dollars. And they're like, and I don't think this is a grant. I think they want us to pay this back. So it i there is some confusion as far as what that the amounts are that are coming through and and it's a hard time because the it's hard to get answers from people too. So as you're talking about chambers employing, you know, some of the, you know, legal help from members or local universities or or things like that to be able to get answers to some of these questions is so valuable.
21:40.094 Sheree Anne Kelly
Absolutely. It's, I mean, the SBA is completely overwhelmed with applications and questions. So getting any insight there is probably not likely at this point. So making sure you can find, again, those resources that are available that can just make this a smoother process. And obviously, you know, there are a lot of folks who are out of work right now. So quite a few chambers have been setting up job listing sites. Some are even trying to match up. If an organization has a large number of layoffs, they're trying to match up those individuals with job openings because there are certain industries and certain organizations that are looking for additional help during this pandemic, whether it's contract work or full-time positions. So a lot of places to try to match up those individuals who are currently out of work. Some really creative things that I've seen. One chamber, actually my hometown chamber in Carroll County, Maryland. They have a digital ad board in town, right? Pretty typical for a lot of communities. Well, right now ad rates are incredibly low because there's just not really traffic happening there. So the chamber was able to sort of, I think they bargained maybe a membership out of it, but they've gotten advertising time on that board and they're promoting things like supporting local businesses and showcasing good stories of what local businesses are doing. Just kind of a creative way to take advantage of something that might be available that you might not normally think of and getting, you know, getting some good information out to your local community. Seen lots of you know, shop local activities, takeout blitzes with local restaurants. Some groups are supporting feeding the frontline, which is where you can accept donations, and then a restaurant can create. make food and deliver food to whether it's hospital workers or firefighters or other individuals who are sort of on the front lines of this pandemic. It's also an interesting concept. That's called feeding the front line. COVID supply chain is another interesting area that we've seen chambers get involved in, whether it's maybe helping your local brewery convert to becoming a producer of sanitizer, of hand sanitizer,
24:00.14 Sheree Anne Kelly
I've got chambers out there that are currently the number one go-to resource for their entire healthcare community for getting PPE equipment. So whether it's finding incubators that have lots of 3D printers that can print face shields or connecting suppliers and producers to make face masks or hospital gowns, there are lots of chambers that have sort of taken the lead role in making sure that. All of the resources that are needed in their community are being built, shipped in, found, created. They're they're sort of the conduit for all of that. And that's been fantastic to see. So that's another thing to think about as well.
24:44.906 Brandon Burton
Yeah, that is great ideas. And I think of of the list that you just ran through, all these different examples, surely, you know, people can get some ideas, engage that creative side of their brain and and do their own version of one of these things, or maybe spark an idea to do something else that could positively impact their community. So I mean that's looking at the the community side of things. Now If maybe we shift the focus and look internally at the chamber themselves. I mean, things are changing. a lot of people are a lot of this chamber staff are working from home and just doing things differently. What what kind of things need to be thought about and looked at kind of as we navigate our way through this unprecedented time?
25:39.02 Sheree Anne Kelly
Sure. No, and I think it's just as important that, you know, we're serving our communities, but we also have to think about the long-term viability and sustainability of our own organizations. Decisions are going to be made based on lots of different factors. You know, what is your current financial situation? How is your region or community specifically being impacted? but there are lots of factors to sort of weigh as you go through that. I would say the number one thing to think of right now is your staff. How are they doing? How are they handling the work from home situation? You know, do you have team members who might perhaps have a little bit more anxiety than others and that you may need to check in on a little more frequently? Are you having enough of that face-to-face Zoom kind of contact so people have that human experience? at ACCE, we're doing weekly happy hours on Zoom, and it's just a nice chance to not talk about work. And we joke around and share, you know, insights. We have fun games that we've sort of woven into our happy hour. you know, it's best outfit, most comfortable outfit, you know, best drink, best drinking cup, best corny joke. You know, we just come up with things to make it a little more lively and interesting. so kind of making sure that you've got your finger on the pulse of your team, because it it can be daunting working from home if they have. children or if they take care of older family members or if they have other stressors in their life, this can be a really tough time. So checking in, making sure that you understand how they're holding up, I think that's maybe the number one thing to think about.
27:21.388 Brandon Burton
That makes a lot of sense. I know a lot of them are are doing the homeschool thing with their kids right now and that's a it is a stressor and trying to manage, I mean, the time that you're putting into your work versus the time with the kids and and everything all the other responsibilities that are shifting given the current situation. So that's important to check in and make sure that they're doing all right, you know, mentally and and just being able to to manage their way through this.
27:50.232 Sheree Anne Kelly
And I I've heard some chambers that are doing daily Zoom communications with their staff. I haven't gone that route because I know there's so much going on. I don't want to force people to be pulled away. I I'm personally on an extraordinary number of Zoom calls each day, which is great and I love looking at everyone, but I also realize you can't really multitask when you're on hit mute and type emails, which I miss a little bit from the conference call days. So I
28:12.227 Brandon Burton
That's true.
28:19.438 Sheree Anne Kelly
We've gone with a Monday morning Zoom all staff meeting, lots of communication on Microsoft Teams, and we've got lots of other chat functions, and then we do a happy hour on Fridays. So we sort of bookend the week that way. Obviously a lot of chambers are going virtual with programming. I've seen virtual networking events, happy hours, training programs, lots of webinars. Really thinking through what are the most critical services that you can provide and how can you do so in a virtual way. I also do think this is a time to rethink what you're doing. You don't necessarily need to take the calendar you had before COVID-19 and try to make that calendar virtual. You know, really focus on the most critical and important areas and maybe think creatively about how do you engage people in a virtual world on those specific topics.
29:13.678 Brandon Burton
I think that's a good point. And I think it also is an opportunity as you do that reevaluating to as you look to the programs in the future, once things do get more back to normal. everybody is used to doing Zoom calls now. They're used to doing things virtually. And although there's going to be some craving to be able to go out and have that human interaction, that face to face interaction again when that time is is, you know, cleared to do that. There's gonna be a segment of the population, I believe, and and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they they may prefer the the virtualness of it. And when you have a in person program or event, you may have a digital offering too for those people that wanna dial in on on Zoom or whatever the platform you use to be able to have a further reach and engagement with more of your members. that's just kind of a way that I'm seeing an opportunity to maybe I don't know like capitalize on the situation, but to be able to to plan going forward with the new outlook on the world.
30:19.434 Sheree Anne Kelly
Absolutely. I think hybrid programs will be much more common. And you have to realize that so many of our member organizations are going to be having financial challenges for quite some time. So making sure that you've got an option that is incredibly cost effective, that doesn't require much of a registration fee, that doesn't require travel, that's going to incentivize people to make sure that they, you know. can to they can attend, they can be a part of that experience. You know, a really hot topic is obviously membership renewals. What are organizations doing about that? We've seen many, many, many options. And I don't think there's any one right answer. You really have to judge it based on what's going on in your community. I've seen some organizations say, we're just not asking for renewals right now. We're going to pause for maybe 30 days, 45 days before we address it. I've seen some organizations say for the next at least three months, anytime one of our members has a renewal, we're going to make a phone call instead of sending some sort of electronic communication and get a pulse of get a pulse of where they are, see if they need some sort of adjustment. I've seen lots of creative ideas around dues postponement that if an organization says, I I'm just not able to pay right now, some chambers are saying we'll postpone your Due date or move your anniversary date might be 30 days, 60 days, 90 days, but making sure that that member still has access to all of the benefits and resources, even if they can't pay right now. I have seen an increase in monthly payment options. So it's okay if you can't pay your entire dues right now, but maybe we can do a monthly installment. But my recommendation is maybe not to assume that all of your members can't pay. Pay right now. Whatever kind of communication you have, it does have to be adjusted, whether you're sending emails or making phone calls, you know, letting people know that there is some flexibility available to them and that you're happy to talk offline about what that looks like. We have seen some members just pay their bills without batting an eye.
32:36.554 Sheree Anne Kelly
we've also had new members come in the door because they've seen the value of of what's being provided. So I wouldn't assume that you're not going to have any cash flow, but just having a real mind for flexibility.
32:47.84 Brandon Burton
Yeah. I love the idea of of those phone calls just to get the pulse on the business because like you said, you can't just make those assumptions. And when you do make those phone calls, whether business is good or bad for them right now, they see that you care. Yeah, you're calling to get that pulse. And then as the discussion evolves, you can get to the talking about the renewal and and the options available there. But let's show the care first. I think that's so smart.
33:14.264 Sheree Anne Kelly
And we do have sample member renewal communications on the website as well. So there's some good examples. And just a couple other things, looking at chamber management, funding sources. We're seeing organizations try to find more funding through sponsors. We know that membership will likely take a hit. So if you can find groups that really support some of your efforts and ask them to sponsor your organization or your initiatives or your virtual events, you can find creative ways. To give sponsors value for a virtual program. We're certainly seeing organizations take out loans where they can if they need to. If you have a 501c3 foundation, that's an angle to try to find funding through grants. If your C3 pays some of your salary directly and that's how it is recorded and reported, you can also take advantage of the PPP loans. So those are some options. Budgeting and planning is challenging. we've had lots of conversations with chamber executives who are saying, How can I really forecast through this? Nobody has a crystal ball. And again, it's going to vary from market to market, but we're seeing a lot of chambers projecting, you know, revenue losses across almost every line, which means you have to make some really tough decisions about cuts and trimming some of your budget. We have heard of a handful of chambers who have already closed their doors. they were Unfortunately, in really tough financial situations, didn't have much reserves, were already in a problematic financial position. But in order to try to stave that off, we've also seen chambers that have creatively come up with ways to furlough some of their staff, or they've done across the board salary cuts. Some are making strategic layoffs, a lot are repurposing their existing staff. So if you had event planning staff, you may be retraining them on Customer outreach and member outreach. And that's something we've certainly seen. This is also a time to rethink partnering with other chambers. You know, you may want to consider a regional partnership or maybe even a merger. There's in a time like this, there's real value in strength of coming together. And you know, if you haven't considered it previously, this might be time to think about some of those regional partners.
35:39.736 Sheree Anne Kelly
Who might make just good collaborative partners on an initiative, or perhaps there's an opportunity to try to join forces. So those are just some of the things that we've seen on the chamber management side. A lot of chambers are starting to think about recovery planning for themselves and for their members. You know, as this starts to shift and we start to have a return to work, you know, what can we be doing in order to prepare our community for that? Most of what we've seen is really gathering some of those critical stakeholders in your region together to start talking about it, sharing information, everybody getting on the same page, making sure that your community stakeholders can share the same kinds of talking points and information with your legislators and decision makers. So those are some of the pieces that we're seeing. And I know we've covered a lot of ground, but I think those are some of the best chamber innovations and creative problem solving that we've seen out there.
36:41.42 Brandon Burton
Definitely good things to to be thinking about and to start taking some action on some of these points to make sure that both their community and the chamber itself can be strong as a recovery come as recovery time comes around. So towards the end of these interviews, I I like to ask a question about what would be one action item that you would encourage a a chamber professional to do to try to take their chamber up to the next level, but maybe instead of looking at it from taking it up to the next level, just what would be one one strong action item in this time of uncertainty that you would suggest a chamber does?
37:24.97 Sheree Anne Kelly
Sure. I you know it's hard to pin it down to one thing because I think having that pulse and touch point on your community is so critical. But if I had to narrow it down, I would say really think creatively right now. You know, if if you're trying to mirror what you did before in this new dynamic, that may not be the best approach. Really think about what are the biggest challenges and problems that your community and your members are facing right now. And how can you be the go-to resource and the catalytic leader that helps fix those problems? And looking at it through that type of lens of a solution center, I think can help focus what you're working on and make sure that you are providing the highest value and return on investment for. the people that you serve. I think that would be my number one recommendation is really, really think big picture and try something new. This is this is the chance to to get, like I said before, creative in how you approach some of the challenges that you're facing.
38:36.588 Brandon Burton
Very good advice. So the question that I ask everyone that I have on the show is as we look to the future, and I know we don't have a crystal ball and the future is not super clear right now, but how do you see chambers of commerce and their purpose moving forward?
38:52.942 Sheree Anne Kelly
I I believe so firmly that chambers of commerce play the most critical roles in their communities and they are among the most misunderstood groups that are out there. You know, if you say Chamber of Commerce to anyone out on the street, you will get a different answer as to what they do or who they serve or how they function. So what I'm excited about is the opportunity to try to clarify what that role and scope is. What I see chambers being in the future, I sort of have this concept in my head of what I call community incorporated, where chambers are the community resource that brings solutions to the biggest problems that the community faces. And they help leverage business. So the incorporated part is sort of the second part of that concept, where business is this critical resource and conduit for solving some of those problems, but it's taking this bigger perspective around helping the community in a holistic way. That's what I see chambers doing. We're seeing a lot of chambers shifting in that direction now. And I think it's smart. You know, they're taking a a different approach, a much more inclusive approach to what they're doing. They're trying to help the entire community. And I think that's only going to showcase the the value of a chamber of commerce if if we continue to focus on The bigger picture. That's what I see Chambers doing in the future and I think that's really exciting.
40:25.366 Brandon Burton
I don't know, you might have a crystal ball there that you're looking into 'cause that sounds really good.
40:32.286 Sheree Anne Kelly
I'm an optimistic realist, Brandon.
40:34.478 Brandon Burton
That's right. Well, Sherrianne, as we wrap up here, I wanted to to give you an opportunity to maybe give a way for listeners to get in contact with you if they have any questions about what you discussed or if they wanted to try to continue this discussion offline. What would be the best way for listeners to reach out to you?
40:54.232 Sheree Anne Kelly
Sure. So I am great on email. My email address is S S in Sam Kelly K-E-L-L-Y at ACCE dot O R G. ACCE is on all social media platforms, and our handle is at ACCEHQ, as in headquarters. And we're everywhere. We're on Instagram and YouTube and Twitter and LinkedIn and Facebook. we try to post lots of good examples and best practices on all those social media platforms. My social media platform of choice is LinkedIn. So you can also find me there forward slash in forward slash Sherry Ann. So yeah, those are the best ways to reach me. And I'm happy to talk with anyone. Don't hesitate to reach out at all.
41:39.97 Brandon Burton
Very good. I will make sure that we get your contact information on the show notes page for this episode, which will be found at Chamberchat Podcast dot com slash episode sixty-four. And Sherrianne, I just wanted to thank you so much for spending time with us today here on Chamber Chat Podcast and sharing these insights that you have and some of these great things that you've seen around the country happening in other communities that these local chambers as they're listening can take and and implement as they try to to better serve their communities and their chamber members. I I just I think you brought extreme value today and just thank you so much for for spending time with us.
42:22.168 Sheree Anne Kelly
Brandon, it was such a pleasure. Thank you for for having me. It was great.
42:27.52 Brandon Burton
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