Myth Busting Age Old Revenue Strategies with Doug Holman

This transcript has been lightly edited for readability and to correct obvious transcription errors while preserving the meaning of the original conversation.

Episode 126 — Myth Busting Age Old Revenue Strategies with Doug Holman
Clean Speaker-Labeled Transcript
Guest: Doug Holman
Automated QA: Passed

00:00.884 Brandon Burton
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.
00:14.222 Intro Voice / Brandon Burton
Your host, he spent two lit years living in South Carolina. He's my dad, Brandon Burton. Welcome to the Chamber Chat Podcast. I'm your host, Brandon Burton, where it is my goal to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community. You're joining us today for episode 126. Our guest for this episode is Doug Holman. And actually our title sponsor for Chamber Chat Podcast is Holman Brothers Membership Sales Solutions. Is your chamber struggling to drive the revenue it needs to support your initiatives? It's a common problem, and one that our new title sponsor, Holman Brothers Membership Sales Solutions, knows a lot about. Doug and Bill Holman aren't just sales consultants, they're real live chamber guys with 20 plus years of chamber leadership experience. They know how to diagnose and solve member recruiting issues faster and better than anyone else, and they're ready to put that knowledge to work for you in your chamber. Call the Holman Brothers today at 619-852-1391 or check them out at HolmanBros.com. That's H-O-L-M-A-N-B-R-O-S dot com. As I just mentioned, Doug Holman is our our guest for this episode. Doug is partner It's with his brother Bill at Holman Brothers Membership Sales Solutions. And believe it or not, you know, the he and his brother Bill are partners and they they actually get along quite well. Doug has over 30 years of achievements in sales and sales performance management, including 13 years as vice president of membership with the San Diego Regional Chamber of Commerce. Holman Brothers provides their clients with proven, predefined, step by step. Processes that your sales team can use to consistently identify, qualify, close, and retain more members and drive more revenue. Doug, I'm excited to have you with me today on the Chamber Chat podcast. If you will take a few minutes to say hello to all the chamber champions that are out there listening and share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better.
02:28.684 Doug Holman
Well, Brandon, I appreciate you you having me on. I'm proud to be in the top one twenty six in the chamber world. So that's that's a a highlight for me, I suppose. The something about me. I I a few people in the industry know this, but but maybe not that many. I so I've I've been in sales for forever and a day and but I cut my teeth in sales and learning how to sell as a door to door cemetery sales person. I
02:56.79 Brandon Burton
Yeah.
02:57.298 Doug Holman
I would literally each day I would go knock on people's doors and they would have somebody from the cemetery standing there talking to Did that for just a little bit over a decade and actually hired and trained hundreds of people to to go and and pound on doors to talk to people about death. So that's probably that one typically raises an eyebrow or two of people here.
03:21.26 Brandon Burton
Yep. But on the other hand, people are dying to do business with you, right? I mean you never heard that one before, right? well that is interesting. And that would definitely really, you know, put you through the the the the fire, you know, to to make you tough as iron. Well, tell us tell us more about Holman Brothers membership sales solutions, about what you guys
03:24.878 Doug Holman
Exactly. Right, yeah, exactly.
03:40.674 Doug Holman
Yeah, exactly.
03:50.09 Brandon Burton
Offer to your clients, you know, how you guys work, what you know, yeah.
03:55.046 Doug Holman
yeah, I appreciate you asking it. You know, Holman Brothers is, I mean, the quick and easy way to say it is that we are sales and performance management coaches. And so if if you look at it that way, we basically, when it comes to serving any of our clients, it's about revenue generation. And so there's there's many facets to revenue generation, right? I mean, A, we have to have salespeople that are trained appropriately so they know what to say, when to say, how to say. but we also need to manage performance. So we need to be able to have tracking ability with activity and and and pipelines and things like that. And of course you have to pay salespeople. So we help with compensation. we help with hiring salespeople because it's not as simple as just go find a salesperson. You're looking for a specific type of individual to perform that role. So anything that has to do with with a membership department and and selling for your chamber. Holman brothers we hope we're at least worth a conversation if you're trying to to to problem solve.
04:59.814 Brandon Burton
Absolutely. And yeah, I I've been looking forward to having you on the podcast. And I appreciate you know both you and Bill you know putting your trust in me and and with the with Chamber Chat Podcast to to be our title sponsor. And I thought it was important to have you on just so people can become more familiar with you, comfortable. I mean, people hear sales guy and kind of some red flags go up. So I wanted to have you on so people know you're a great guy. I mean, you and Bill are both great. But as we were talking, you know, about what we can discuss in this episode, we kind of landed on the idea of doing some some myth busting on some some things in the the chamber world and specifically around sales that maybe just aren't quite as true as what a lot of people tend to think. So I look forward to getting into this discussion with you right after this quick break. Are you looking for a year-round affordable and timely shop local campaign for your chamber or CVB? Look no further. Build a custom Eat Shop Play Mobile app with App My Community by visiting AppmyCommunity.com slash chamberchat. App My Community mobile apps are not just simple membership directory listings, they provide many more capabilities to engage with your community. Provide your residents with a robust events calendar and Partner with a local fair, festival, or farmers market to provide a schedule, map, and other resources to promote the event. Run a small business Saturday campaign any time of the year using built-in scavenger hunts. Allow your membership to communicate directly to their customers via push notifications. Your App My Community mobile app will be a unique member benefit, allow you to generate non-dues revenue with sponsorship opportunities, and best of all, Provide a valuable resource to your community. Please visit Appmycommunity dot com slash chamberchat now to receive ten percent off your first year of an App My Community mobile app.
07:10.154 Brandon Burton
All right, Doug, we are back. So let's let's tackle some of this myth busting that I'm sure you've seen a lot of things as you go to work with chambers, kind of you know, predetermined, maybe outdated ideas of how sales should go, specifically membership sales. I let me just hand it over to you. What what are some of these things that you've seen? And how do you approach it?
07:42.658 Doug Holman
Yeah, there there's got th there's many of them. So I'll start with what I think is is and this is especially you know anybody running a a membership department or maybe you know a CEO or a CFO of a chamber, but I I have a very basic belief when it comes to chambers and revenue. and I believe that revenue is significantly important, and I don't think very many people would argue with me. And revenue is how Any great chamber leader is going to be able to meet the their objectives, right? So, and typically those objectives aren't to have the best networking event in town. While that's a nice thing, the the objectives tend to be more about community and and the business community. So one of the major myths is that you can have your salesperson be an entry-level position. If revenue is the most significant thing. That that you need to meet your goals, you have to have individuals in your department that actually have have some world experience, have some knowledge of your business community, but just have knowledge in general. So I I happen to believe that when we are hiring salespeople as their first job, it makes the goal of driving revenue exponentially more difficult. And that's not a knock on anybody who who's young, it's more so folks that just it more more about experience, right? And just being able to have meaningful conversations with people. Myth, biggest myth number one, right?
09:15.34 Brandon Burton
Yeah. So and coming from a sales background myself, I mean, you see that if if if your company, your chamber, your organization doesn't have sales, you're dead, right? I mean, sales drive everything. And to have that solely rested on a a person that's brand new into the industry, not that it can't work, but that person may need a lot more training, a lot more hands-on, a lot more guidance to really understand the full story of the chamber and how to communicate that. So
09:50.328 Doug Holman
Yeah. It it it leads to kind of myth number two, which is, you know, salespeople who have been in advertising and salespeople who have had these tangible type of positions are are a great fit for the chamber because they deal with so many of the same things, right? Sponsorship and and and advertising and web bad web ads and things like that. But the truth of the matter is is that Transactional isn't necessarily what a what a chamber's looking for because your major your major donors or your major investors are about the big picture. They're about the transformational or aspirational things that lead right back to what I said in the first example of if you need to drive revenue to to to hit your mission. Well, you have to have salespeople who can communicate with those folks that are mission driven. So if your salespeople are transactionally driven, oftentimes those conversations either aren't happening with major potential major investors, or if they are happening, we're we're speaking to the wrong things. We're speaking to the the value of a sponsorship to drive eyes or or or attention for a company, or we're talking about networking or things that a larger company just it's it's not significant enough for them to to to lean in in that conversation.
11:12.278 Brandon Burton
That's right. And I see that a lot of times again in my sales background, as I come across chamber members that will tell me because I'm not the chamber itself, you know. I'm not sure. You know, they'll be candid with me. Yeah, I'm not sure if I'm an That's right. That's right. Yeah, they'll they'll tell me I I'm not sure if I'm gonna renew my chamber membership. really? Why not? You know, it's not really my place there, but I'm curious, you know. I want to know about their experience.
11:25.762 Doug Holman
The bartender, right?
11:39.622 Brandon Burton
And they'll tell me whatever their expectation was from the chamber was not fulfilled. And it's like, well, maybe there needs to be more conversation about what those expectations are. Maybe something, you know, more standardized, it just more of a relationship. So the the member knows that the chamber cares about and is looking after them.
11:59.916 Doug Holman
Yeah, absolutely. So I mean you just led into another one of the myths. And the myth is is that we must sit down face to face with a potential member because we have to build a relationship and people need to be face to face in order to do that. And nothing could be further from the truth because the reality is that if you want to build a relationship with me or somebody wants to build a relationship with you, Brandon, or anybody else, get to know me. get to know what matters to me. I don't need to be in the same room as you for that. But if you have a series of meaningful questions you can ask me that get me to think, what do I really need? And how can this individual help me? Well now, now we're building a relationship based on you've set an expectation. You've said, hey, should you join our organization, here are the things that we're going to help you with. So we actually put a plan of action in place as we get to know the individual and recommend that they join your organization. That's completely different than the mindset of, well, if we can just be friendly with one another, they'll invest. Well, so what are they investing in? My personality? Yeah. That's that that investment's gonna be wasted really fast. I need to know how to help. Yeah. Does that make sense?
13:18.22 Brandon Burton
Yeah. Yeah. And and your organization is more than you because when there's staff turnover, then what happens to that relationship, right?
13:26.23 Doug Holman
Yeah, well, it it it and that leads to another myth, right? So the myth is I need to find a great salesperson. And so so you find a great salesperson, right? Find a great salesperson, and then that person, maybe you did, and and they're doing tremendous things for you. And then that salesperson finds something better, and that salesperson leaves. Now, organizationally, what do you do? Because you don't have a sales system in place, you don't have a process in place. You had a person, right? So I I had one of our one of our clients said to me when I was sharing with him what we do and how we help chambers. And I was talking about having a system in place so that you can plug people in. And he said, that's exactly what I'm looking for. I'm looking for, I'm not looking for a person to do a job. I'm looking for the process or the place, right? And so his thing was, I don't need great people. I need great process because my process will carry me through no matter what.
14:27.5 Brandon Burton
That's right. And a great salesperson will leave. You know, at some point there's gonna be greener pastures, they're gonna, you know.
14:34.958 Doug Holman
Just it's just the way it is, okay. Salespeople I've I've I've dealt with salespeople for the better part of thirty five years. yeah. The the grass becomes greener someplace else at some point in time.
14:49.966 Brandon Burton
And a lot of times they'll end up with one of your members because they see what a great salesperson is. So good for the member for scoring a good salesperson, but it's all about the price.
14:55.48 Doug Holman
Yeah, that's that's exactly right. Yeah.
15:02.804 Doug Holman
I am I'm also guilty of of acquiring a salesperson or two from a member, so I can't really complain too much.
15:11.214 Brandon Burton
True, true. Yeah, it goes both ways, right? Yeah, I got it.
15:14.336 Doug Holman
Yeah.
15:16.962 Brandon Burton
Yeah. So I love this. I mean, these these thoughts that people have, and they may not necessarily vocalize them or they may not be conscious that these are some of their thoughts, but they're they're definitely things that that people in the chamber world think about. And and probably even outside of Chamber World when it comes to sales, these are some of those myths that people buy into. And absolutely it's worth shining some light on them to say, hold on a second, let's look at it from another angle. and see where where the importance lies. So what are what's what's another one of these myths that we can tear apart? So
15:55.582 Doug Holman
Yeah. So an another another myth is if if we give each of our departments revenue goals, then we've got more people out having the conversation and we can drive more revenue that way. You know, so maybe the advocacy the advocacy group has some revenue goals. They need to upgrade some members or they need to drive some new memberships, the events team. probably has sponsorship goals and and and things like that. You might even have your communications folks might have some sort of advertising, advertising budget that they're trying to meet. And then of course your sales team is your membership team's responsible for memberships and retaining those memberships. The reason the reason that that Holman Brothers does our very best to break this myth is that when we talk about revenue for a chamber, a dollar is a dollar is a dollar is a dollar So, you know, we we I know that from an accounting standpoint, we put but we put dollars into different buckets, right? Because we have to track the event money and all these things. But at the end of the day, your vendors or the bank don't care where each dollar came from. They just want you to have dollars, right? And if you want to hire more people, you just need dollars. So Holman Brothers believes that when you tell your sales team that they can't talk about a sponsorship or they can't talk about advertising, That you actually create an environment where you're not providing great service to your member because everything becomes a conversation about spending money. And think about that. At some point in time, you see the phone ring and it's from the chamber, you're the member, and you see the phone ring from the chamber. We've taught them one thing. We've taught them Pavlovian, you know, that the bell just rang, but in their case, the bell just rang, it's like, the chamber needs money. I'm not taking that call.
17:52.131 Brandon Burton
Yeah.
17:52.726 Doug Holman
So we really want to have our salesperson be able to focus on filling the the entire need base of each member. Does that resonate for you?
18:03.206 Brandon Burton
It absolutely does. I'm thinking as you have department revenue goals, you you take an organization that should be more holistic in serving your membership and you're breaking it down into silos. Absolutely. You can only talk about certain things. Yeah. So when I'm then when it comes to a member saying I'm not getting the value for my membership, well, maybe this department hasn't gotten through with that phone call because they think they're just asking for money and you're missing the mark.
18:18.806 Doug Holman
No doubt about it.
18:32.168 Brandon Burton
on where their needs are. Yeah.
18:34.956 Doug Holman
Yeah, if if so so if we can think of every every member, whether it's a whether it's a transactional member, right, the the smaller guys or it's a transformational member, the larger guys, if we could aspire, and when I say we, I mean any chamber, if you could aspire to have everyone on an annual package. So maybe for a small member, that means that they're paying your lowest dues amount, but they also advertise in your directory. So they get a bill once a year for both of those things. And then the chamber's job the rest of the year is actually to be calling to make sure you're fulfilling your promises. Totally different relationship that we're building now, right? Because they're you're calling to com to to to continue on your commitment as opposed to go, would you like to spend more money? Yeah. Right. So that that leads to another myth, right? So the the myth is get the membership. And then we'll follow up later to talk about other things. And so if there's anything that I know that's not a myth, and that's this, every chamber is understaffed. Like I've never heard a chamber say to me, we got more people than we know what to do with. It's awesome. So they're understaffed, but yet we have a sales process that says, let's make a sale, not talk about everything, and then we'll somehow find the time to go talk to these people again later. Well, talk about a myth, right? Well, you're probably never gonna follow with them. And if you do, you're gonna frustrate them because most people are logical and they'll say, Why didn't you tell me about all of this six months ago? So let's really be able to have a full conversation.
20:12.238 Brandon Burton
Yeah.
20:16.206 Brandon Burton
Let let's dive a little deeper into that one. I'm I'm curious on that one because like you mentioned earlier, where revenue drives everything, right? So when when you come across the the person who wants to join, the ready to join. I know a lot of salespeople are trained to when somebody wants to buy, you sell right? You don't say, Well, hold on, let me tell you about all the other benefits. You shut up and you sell them. So I I see kind of a balance there or i i a little bit conflicting, but a balance really that needs to happen there where you say, Yes, we want to get you as a member, but we want to make sure all your needs are met. So how d how would you approach that?
21:01.454 Doug Holman
Yeah, so you're asking a great question and it and it's one that that that that it's one that sometimes we get resistance on because if you just hear it if you just hear it and then make a decision and you'll go, they're nuts. But if you hear it, if you hear what I say and then hear me out, ideally this will resonate. So one of the the the baseline understandings that we bring to our clients is the chamber is not a fit for every business. Now, if I just say that, there will be some chamber professionals who go, no, we are a f we are a fit for everybody. The chamber is a business. And I mean, at some level, you're right. However, when we talk about really being a fit, it's about timing, right? It's about is it's about their needs right now, that business's needs right now. Can we can we solve? A problem for them or more than one problem for them that would make it urgent to join. So that's when it becomes, gosh, you might be talking to a business today that's going to be a great member five years from now. But right now, their number one priority is they're trying to build a building. And and and for whatever reason, in in that project, they have put all their resources and all their time into it. They're not going to focus on what you do. So so the idea being is that if I'm going to if I'm going to bring your business, Brandon, into my chamber and have you feel like this is a really good investment. I need to really understand where you are right now, the challenges that you're facing, and where you're trying to get so that I'm not just selling you a membership. I'm actually encouraging you to make an intelligent investment. And then I'm making a commitment to follow that through with you. So I know what why to call and why to help you. So if so, go going back to what you said, the idea of close the sale now, that causes more problems than it solves solutions. Because too many times what we think is the number one problem for a prospect is not. And so if we don't identify multiple problems and identify why it really matters to you, then oftentimes I'm asking for a sale before it's time to ask for a sale.
23:28.826 Doug Holman
That's kinda and I apologize. It's a little bit of a long answer and there's a lot of layers to that, but this is about interviewing your prospect and making sure that you're you're leading them to real solutions for the challenges that they're facing.
23:43.526 Brandon Burton
So I love the idea of finding the multiple problems instead of just assuming how your chamber can fit that business. so another thought that came to me in that response is some chambers look at their base, and I'm I'm calling it base because of the way I'm phrasing this, as members, and some look at their base as investors. with the Some distinction, some of it's more of a a title and the way they go about looking at their base. I I don't know. When when I think of a a membership, I think, okay, what do I get for the membership? You know, I I sign up for a membership with Netflix. I get so many, you know, movies or string, whatever it is. Sign up for a membership at a gym. This is the benefits I get. And even chambers, I sign up for a membership with the chamber. These are the benefits I get, but I also see some chambers shifting away from here's all the benefits, and you're an investor because we're providing value to you. A different approach, but I don't know if you have thoughts on that of the the member versus investor.
24:58.616 Doug Holman
So yeah, I do. It's funny, some chambers members they call them investors, some chambers call them partners. There's there's there's many different names that we can call these these people who support us, right? Or these businesses who support us. Ultimately, Holman Brothers refers to members and we refer to investors. Okay. And we do that because it's actually a designation. So members that come on for more transactional needs, right? So so Typically smaller businesses, they're gonna, they're going to consider joining a chamber because they need to grow their business. They need to increase their visibility. They want to get a bump to their their credibility, right? Those three things tend to be the problems that smaller businesses face. So when we're when we're speaking to those sorts of business, this is more of a transaction because they're looking for very specific things that they're going to monitor and they're looking for quick results, right? So we'll call them members. When we interview that business, we're going to identify well, what is it that they're trying to do and what's our recommendation? On the investor side of it, it's more about community. It's more about the big picture. It's more about what every large company's website says under their mission and vision, right? We support the communities where our employees live, work, and play. That's an investor now because now they're they're going to contribute to your chamber because. It's helping them meet a goal they have for their business. That can be a long burn, right? I mean, we can accomplish something nine years from now and they'll go, it's been worth it. Way different than a member.
26:38.924 Brandon Burton
Yeah. Yeah. I had a and I don't mean to take too much time on this little story, but I had a friend reach out to me that Yeah, I I want you I want your your information though that you're here to share. So I had a friend reach out to me. He's a realtor and he lives in a different city than where I live. And and he reached out and said, you know, I I know you do this podcast about chambers of commerce. What is a chamber of commerce and should I join? Well, I
26:46.712 Doug Holman
Is your podcast?
27:08.18 Brandon Burton
I don't know. You know, I mean, should you, shouldn't you? You know, let's talk about this. you know, what is the mission? What is the purpose of that chamber? Not every chamber's the same, you know, what initiatives are they behind? Is there something that you can get behind and drive? And and it becomes more of a discussion of how can you become more of an investor? Are what are you trying to get out of it? You know, what what what's your desired outcome? And then you can decide if if you should join or not.
27:37.058 Doug Holman
Yeah, exact and i i exactly. Chambers do amazing work, you know, in in in in cities and towns and all across this country, and quite frankly, you know, in in Canada and and and across and and around the world. They they do great work. what they're not great at is taking credit for the work that they do, right? And and and part of that is strategically. So that's not a knock on chambers, because typically if a chamber accomplishes something significant in their community, it's a collaboration. They didn't just do it themselves, right? They brought many, many different partners together to get to a result. And so chambers have typically allowed others to take the credit for these things because they want people to collaborate with them, right? So it's catch-22. So what Holman Brothers talks to our clients about all the time is how can we as a chamber Take some credit for the great work we do without stepping on the toes of those who we need to collaborate with. And there are ways to do that. There are ways to do that so that the community, or at least your investors or potential investors, are hearing from you the work that you've done so that they can start to connect the dots. The better chambers do at that, the easier it will be for chambers to continue to grow their missions because they'll be able to grow their revenue base to do that. But it comes from being able to tell your story. So that that's and that's and that's for the realtor. So the question I would ask you, realtor, is what are your priorities right now? Yeah. You know, most realtors I talk to want to sell houses. They want people to know who they are, and they want people to think that they're reputable. I mean, that's typically the number one thing for them. But you know what? You may be to a point where that's not your biggest concern. you may have as an individual and as a business progressed to the point that you're now trying to give back. So that's another that's a different conversation. The chamber can handle both ends of that conversation, but we have to hear it from the prospect. Where are you? Right.
29:40.822 Brandon Burton
I I guess my point of that is it membership is not just a membership. It's a it's a i it it's assessing the needs of the member and and realizing this is how it fits for you instead of just saying, Yes, you should join because it would yeah, you know. Yeah.
29:55.606 Doug Holman
Right. If we don't know, yeah, if we don't know the member, if we don't know much about the member, then I call that member a transient member, right? So if you're you belong to my chamber brand and and and you joined for whatever reason, you know, a membership drive or a buddy of yours said you should, or whatever reason you joined, but we didn't learn anything about you, you just joined. Well, you're a transient member, and we and by definition, transient member means you could go at any time. Might be after a year, might be after five years, but But there's nothing that we are doing that we know of to keep you believing that it was a good investment, right? So we try to not have very many transient members so that we can at least prognosticate are they staying or not.
30:39.48 Brandon Burton
That's right. So I know there's a couple more myths we want to touch on before we get to the end here. So contract salespeople are a way to save money, right?
30:50.934 Doug Holman
Well again, I think that's a myth. I I don't think it's a myth. It's it's a myth. Listen, I'm sure there's a good contract salesperson out there someplace. So if you're on this call and you want to text me or or or email me later to tell me it's perfectly okay. But a very consistent rule is is that contract salespeople are difficult to manage because you I don't I don't know of a state that allows you to require a contract person to be any place. So They are footloose and fancy free. So the challenge with it is you tend to not have any notes in your database. You tend to not have an up-to-date pipeline. there tends to be arguments because the contract salesperson will then tell you how they've been working an account when they call in. There's just all these different things that happen. And at the end of the day, you you as a chamber aren't in control of what's happening out in your environment. You have released this individual to say, Whatever they feel compelled to say, and then maybe you hear from them or maybe you don't. There's ways to structure compensation because typically a chamber is looking for a contract person because their budget's tight. So there's ways to structure compensation so that you can actually bring a person on board, but we really have to we have to design compensation based on meeting revenue targets, right? And so it becomes more structured or process, but You're always gonna be better off having the the person in employ than than than just out wandering the streets.
32:22.648 Brandon Burton
Yeah. so another one, everyone sells everyone sells membership.
32:30.762 Doug Holman
Yeah, this is I understand the motivation behind that statement, right? The motivation is hey, we all work for the chamber, we're all passionate, so everyone sells membership. So brothers, yeah, so Holman Brothers, one chamber at a time, apparently, is is doing this, but I just want to change the way we say that. And that is everybody markets the chamber or everybody represents the chamber, but ultimately.
32:41.496 Brandon Burton
Seems logical.
32:59.162 Doug Holman
you want your your salesperson having the sales conversation because your salesperson has has two or three characteristics about them that that make it significant. One, typically they get compensated for making a sale. So now that leads to if they're getting compensated to make a sale, they tend to follow up more than the people on your staff who are not being compensated to make a sale. And then three, your salesperson is going to track everything that's going on. When we have other folks on staff doing that work, if we get the sale, we get the sale. If we don't, we don't, it just kind of fades to black. And so we want to be in control. The other way I try to explain this to folks is that I've never heard a chamber president say, We all do policy. Right. But we all work for the same chamber. And and look, want to know why we don't all do policy?
33:46.05 Brandon Burton
Right.
33:52.598 Doug Holman
Because some of us shouldn't do policy. You have folks that are really good at that and they should do that. And the folks that are really good at selling should do yourself.
34:01.42 Brandon Burton
Yeah. Very good. Very well said. Thank you. so the the last myth that I have here on our our list of talking points is just turn loose, right? They they don't need any training. Great salespeople can sell anything.
34:16.469 Doug Holman
Yeah, yeah, yes, and correct. It's it's a myth, right? It's you know salespeople, just like anybody else, must have a track that they run on. You know, so my example I use for this one, it's kind of similar to the policy one, right? But it's like, look, you know, you don't just hire a CFO and then just say, Yeah, count the money however you want. It's all good. You know, just jump. Yeah, look, if you just want to keep all the cash in your drawer, whatever, it's your call. You know, you're good at this. I trust you. Salespeople need direction, right? They they need to understand what are the goals, how do we get to those goals? If we have more than one salesperson, we certainly don't want them doing two different things. We want to be on the same sheet of music. So sales, yes, we want to turn salespeople loose, but we want to make sure that they understand and and and and not just understand, but actually appreciate. the process we want them to go through so that we can consistently win sales. Okay. And that's process based, right? So that that's yeah, you need they need to be trained and they need to all be doing the same thing.
35:22.9 Brandon Burton
And say it goes back to the idea of having a great sales process, is being able to tie that all together.
35:29.71 Doug Holman
Yeah, if you have a great sales process, you will have great salespeople.
35:33.56 Brandon Burton
Yeah. Yep. So as we start to wrap things up here, yeah we've we've busted a lot of myths. I mean people's minds should just be blown right now. Yeah, things are not as they seem.
35:47.15 Doug Holman
Yeah, cats cats like dogs. I mean peanut butter doesn't go with jelly anymore. It's crazy.
35:54.038 Brandon Burton
That's right. So what would be one tip or action item that a a listener, a chamber champion could take away from this discussion to help take their organization up to the next level?
36:06.402 Doug Holman
I've thought about that one for for a while. I I think the the most significant thing that not just salespeople but folks running s the membership department or even the the CEO is that selling is constant learning. You you know, you don't you you you haven't arrived. You're you are on you are you are on this journey. And so you know We send out weekly t weekly sales tips. We do that because we know that salespeople need refreshers. That doesn't mean that they don't know what they're doing, but they need refreshers on on, you know, hey, this has worked for other people. This is a great way to approach this. So ultimately, the takeaway is strive to be constantly learning your craft. Okay. That can be using our sales tips. That can be, you know, that that can be, you know. We've got many chambers that have brought Holman Brothers in to actually train their salespeople, but ultimately constantly be striving to learn and really, you really get your craft down to you know exactly what you're supposed to do each time and you're not recreating the wheel with every phone call. So just be a student of the game.
37:17.574 Brandon Burton
I love that tip. I mean, this last year has has taught us that, you know, magnified that we need to be learning and and find different ways to to approach things. So it's a constant process. But as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see their purpose moving forward?
37:38.894 Doug Holman
So I I I'm really excited about what what what has transpired in the in the chamber world, specifically in the last year and a half, but it was we were moving in that direction. But so as odd as this will sound, there's a real positive that has come from COVID for chambers. And and it's it's caused chambers to really significantly refocus on what is our purpose, right? And for so many chambers, that purpose became How do we keep our businesses and our community as up to date as possible on what's going on with COVID? Right. So for businesses, is how do you access resources? How do you access government money? How can you stay open? For for individuals, it was just like, hey, what restaurants are open? Where can I go to eat? So turning the chamber into a back into as the number one core thing as a community asset. And to me, That and it's actually drifted Chambers away from networking and some of the more transactional things. And it's really caused Chambers to focus back on what are we supposed to be doing? And that's not to say that Chambers didn't know that, but this made it like, but this is all you're gonna focus on. Like literally, you can forget about all these other things and just focus it. And I think Chambers have come out of this stronger, better. more respected in their communities because they were the ones that stood up and said, We'll do the heavy lifting. You guys just jump on board and we're gonna get through this thing. So I that to me, I think chambers are reemerging as the as that centerpiece in their communities. And I I couldn't be happier.
39:19.654 Brandon Burton
Absolutely. And yeah, I've used the example a couple of times just this week with people where I I've seen some chambers that are starting to, you know, drift away from doing, you know, mixers and networking events to some degree because they only get a 10% turnout maybe for a a networking mixer. And yeah, i if you're putting all this energy into one activity that only benefits 10% of your membership base, is there something you can do that'll benefit 50%? Or even thirty percent, you know, and and make that much more of an impact.
39:53.856 Doug Holman
It's network, yeah, it's an it's an i it's that's a whole that's probably a whole nother podcast, right? There are certainly positives to networking, right? But there's also I think the most significant challenge with pro with with with networking is that we don't really have any way of measuring if the members actually succeed in doing it or if they're happy with it, right? So when we talk about return on investment, which is something that I try to
39:58.21 Brandon Burton
Yeah, yeah.
40:19.958 Doug Holman
Yeah, we try to stay out of that as much as we can. But the reality is you have no idea about return on investment for that. So but yet we have salespeople who sell, you you'll pay for your membership by networking. Like, you don't know. I mean, they might be really bad at it. So networking's an interesting thing. I I I think that that's gonna start to morph a little bit too. And it's gonna become more about ideas and more more about collaboration and less about, you know, somebody trying to write a deal on the on the trunk of their car with a corona in their hand. So
40:50.67 Brandon Burton
That's right. thanks for that visual.
40:56.204 Doug Holman
Yeah, well that fits.
40:59.094 Brandon Burton
Yeah. Well, as we wrap things up here, Doug, I want I did want to give an opportunity for you to put your contact information out there for anyone who wants to follow up with you about any of these myths that we busted and and tell you you're how you're wrong on something or or how you blew their mind one way or the other. What would be the best way for someone to reach out and connect and and and even to work with you guys? Yeah.
41:20.888 Doug Holman
Well I always say to folks that we we would start with just j let's just chat. If you've got a challenge, you know, give me an opportunity to see if I might be able to help you. You know, we we give a lot of counsel to to chamber professionals all across the country. So easiest way to get a hold of me is actually on my on my mobile phone, which is area code six one nine eight five two one three nine one. And again, it's six one nine eight five two one three nine one. And or you can always email me and it's pretty easy. It's Doug at holmanbros.com. So h-o-l-m-a-n-b-r-o-s.com.
42:01.196 Brandon Burton
Very good. And we'll get that updated in the show notes for this episode as well, which will be found at Chamberchatpodcast.com slash episode one twenty-six. But Doug, it was a pleasure having you on the podcast today and and introducing you to to all of our chamber champions out there listening. And it's been a real pleasure having this conversation with you. It's been a fun one.
42:22.464 Doug Holman
I listen, I really appreciate it. I I just hit twenty years serving this industry and it's I'm just disappointed I didn't find it sooner. So but thank you thank you for allowing me on and thank you for doing these to help the industry. Really appreciate it.
42:37.174 Brandon Burton
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43:12.76 Brandon Burton
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