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Brandon Burton 0:00
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Our guest for this episode is Mike Throne. Mike is the President and CEO of the Chillicothe Ross Chamber in Ohio. Mike has always been a storyteller has a sixth grader near Sandusky, Ohio he arrived home from school one day proclaiming he wanted to be a journalist when he grew up. He wrote stories as a child and use scrap paper stapled together to produce his first official issue. A five pager including a recap of pickup baseball game he and his friends played earlier that day. Sales were not good. After graduating from Bowling Green State University. He began nearly 25 year career in newspapers starting as a rural reporter and becoming an editor of two newspapers picking up numerous local state and national awards for himself and his staff. But he found his passion in Chillicothe. He as a small town from southern Ohio, he yearned to become part of the renaissance of Ohio’s first capitol. In 2018, he became the president and CEO of the Chillicothe Ross Chamber of Commerce. And again, the story of the resurgence of the place he called Ohio’s best small town. In addition to his chamber duties, he co hosts the feels like home podcast, which furthers his efforts to tell his community stories. He also serves on several boards in the community, including chairing the Board of Trustees for the pumphouse Center for the Arts. Mike, I’m excited to have you with us today, you’re on Chamber Chat Podcast, I’d love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the Chamber Champions who are out there listening and share something interesting about yourself that maybe wasn’t included in your bio. Well,
Mike Throne 2:52
Brandon, first of all, thank you for the invitation. And it’s an honor to be on the show. And I think it’s important to note that I’m so good of an editor that I edited out the two homeruns that I hit in that pickup baseball game. But, you know, I’m really excited to be here because I think the chamber life has been pretty transforming for me. And so I like to share parts of my experience. And I think it’s just one of those things where the more I can really my mom and many people that I’ve talked to have always said I should have been a teacher I should have because summers off really sounds like a great idea, but but I like the fact that we have forums like this and other forums where we can share our experiences and help chamber executives and their staffs really grow their knowledge and and again, as you said earlier, just serve their members better. Yes, I
Brandon Burton 3:51
appreciate that. And I I like platforms like this. I may be a little biased, but I think it energizes those that listen and participate. Because you get to hear what the other guy’s doing and be able to take things and scale it for your chamber and and hopefully make your life a little bit easier. That’s that’s kind of the goal. Absolutely. Well tell us a little bit more about the Chillicothe, the Ross chamber just give us an idea size staff budget scope of work, you guys are involved with that sort of thing just to kind of set the stage for our discussion.
Mike Throne 4:21
So the Chillicothe Ross Chamber of Commerce has been around since I guess, since since the 1880s when it was first formed as a Board of Trade. But in the early 1900s It became an official Chamber of Commerce, transferring its name to a chamber of commerce. So we’ve been around for 100 plus years. And we currently have about 775 members. We’re located in southern Ohio about midway between Huntington West Virginia or Kentucky depending how you look at the tri state area, and Columbus, Ohio. We’re only about 40 minutes south of Columbus, Ohio. And so we’ve kind of got a niche is sort of a Regional Chamber. We draw a lot of members from around around the surrounding county areas. But predominantly, we focus on the Ross County area, we have a staff of three, that’s myself on events and marketing person, and membership, person as well. We bring in about, on average, about $240,000 of dues revenue each year. And total income of probably right around 375,000. We just made a switch this year, we had three, we’ve always had three positions. But we have traditionally not had an events and marketing person split out, I had my membership and events all under one when I arrived in 20, late 2018. And so this year, we had an opportunity, somebody left. And so we thought, well, this is the opportunity that we have to make our membership person a true membership person and split off the events duties. So that’s been our biggest, our biggest change this year. And so in many ways, you know, it’s only we’re not even halfway through the year yet. So we’re still trying to navigate what that looks like. And but it’s been, it’s been really successful so far. That’s
Brandon Burton 6:25
good. Yeah, I can see where membership and events and marketing where there’s a lot of overlap, and where one person may feel like they kind of need the control over all of it. But there’s definitely enough work to spread it out to two or three people maybe even but being able to have that coordinated effort between them to make sure we’re all moving in the right direction, right? Yep.
Mike Throne 6:49
Yeah. And I just felt like there was a lot of stops and starts, every time we’d have a big event. It was sort of like okay, membership meeting, slow down or pause. And I just felt like, you know, the membership duties being segmented out. We could just focus on membership for 12 months a year. Yeah,
Brandon Burton 7:06
that’s smart. So for our topic for our conversation today, for this episode, we focus or we decided to focus on discussing the chamber turn that we’re seeing throughout the chamber world. And part of that some of the balance and some of the work life balance that we need to be mindful of to try to retain us as a chamber professionals and not get too burned out and be adding to that churn too quickly. So we will dive into this discussion much deeper as soon as they get back from this quick break.
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All right, Mike, we are back. As I mentioned before the break, we’re talking today about chamber churn, but also the work life balance aspect to try to help support those chamber champions that are out there. I know from my my vantage point, my point of view from especially since the pandemic, I think that was really an accelerator of seeing this churn of chamber executives and, and staff were, you know, it was everything 100%, you know, during the pandemic, and I think at least it led to a lot of burnout, it led to a on the other hand, a lot of satisfaction, because chambers were able to see the value, the community was able to recognize the value of the chamber, but I think the the balance got out of whack a bit there. But from your perspective, what have you seen and what what comes to mind, as you see think of chamber churn. But
Mike Throne 10:59
I think it hits really, really close to home to me, in fact, of the five or six county area around me, I have one county to my north, that is churn their leader three times since the end of 2020. Another chamber that’s churned its leader four times since the end of 2020. And another county near me that has turned it three times since 2020. And then if you look around, some of the folks that I got to know in my first year, they’re gone in their predecessor, or their their successor, are also gone. I’m part of the chamber executives of Chamber of Commerce, executives of Ohio CEO group, which is a group designed specifically for executives. And we haven’t really run the numbers fully yet. But I would say, venture a guess that half of the positions and there are, you know, a lot of chambers in Ohio that have churned leaders over that span. I think COVID was a part of it. I think COVID was a very big waking event for people, to let them see just how aggressive their schedule was, and how hard they’re working. And, you know, I come from this from from the perspective of spending 25 years in the journalism business where the last three years or two years, I was the editor over two papers, and I was strung out and really just stressed out, I get home and my young kids were already in bed, and I hadn’t seen them all day, and I just really needed, I needed a change, I didn’t enjoy my work anymore. And so, you know, I had applied for this job five years before it came open. Didn’t get it then. But when it came back open again, I was a little reluctant to do it. But the more that I’ve looked at it, the more I felt like this is a good a good change for me. And I have the opportunity to work with my board to set the realistic goals, boundaries and values that will allow me to have that work life balance. And so, you know, I guess from the chamber churn perspective, I look at, you know, Glenn Shepards, report every month and see all these people that are leaving, or going from one to the other. And I just even look at my IOM class from last year, I’m currently in my second year. And the number of people that have left from that class alone just gives me great concern about who we’re getting for leaders. And then I think, how we address that, you know, I’m five years into this job, I don’t really consider myself a veteran, like many of the other folks that do this job. But we’re going to need to invest in those leaders to make sure that they don’t fall into the same traps. And I think the other part of it, too, is to create for our own selves. The boundaries that we know will help sustain us to go deep into this career if we really want that.
Brandon Burton 14:07
Yeah. So you’ve quickly become one of the old timers as everybody around you. It’s kind of
Mike Throne 14:14
a joke. You go from rookie to veteran real quickly in this industry, right? That’s
Brandon Burton 14:20
right. And at the same time, there’s those veterans that have been around, you know, their majority of their career that have a ton of value to offer to those who are new to the industry and and hopefully having platforms like this and state conferences and associations and IOM you know, that it’s opportunities to be able to learn from those that that have good stuff to pass on. What really stood out to me he had mentioned a couple of times these boundaries and values that allow for you to hopefully try to strike a balance between your work and your life. What does that look like? I guess her something because he had mentioned personal boundaries, but also that your board has been amenable to accepting boundaries and values that that you have as well. Can you talk to that a little bit? Sure.
Mike Throne 15:12
So I read a book few years ago called sacred rest, and it’s by Dr. Sondra, Dalton Smith. And she and that book talks about. And it actually came at a really important time. For me, it was produced in 2017, this was at the height of when I was really burned out. Emotionally, I loved being a journalist, I loved being an editor, we did great work, we served our community well. But inside, I was just really, really tired. And mentally, I really was going through the motions every day. And I read this book, and I started really, I didn’t really have an opportunity to apply a lot of the things that were in the book, until I kind of left that career because it was just such high energy, always on always, you know, you’re always worried about the stories that you don’t miss, and so on. And so in the book, Dr. Dalton Smith talks about getting seven types of rest. And they include physical rest, mental rest, social rest, spiritual rest, sensory rest, emotional rest, and then creative rest. And I realized very quickly, that creative rest was not something that I did not do much of, I was always just going and always in a in a, you know, an office setting. And, and so even though the journalism business can be very creative, I never took time to get outside of the walls of the office and appreciate the community that I live in, or, you know, we have great trails and other things around us. Not none of that stuff was I doing? And so I had to figure out how to get the seven types of risks, and you’re not going to get them every day. But how can I work them into my week and work them into my mental schedule. So that way I can, I can tell, you know, that I’m, I’m getting too out of balance in one area. You know, sensory rest is very, very important. Taking a break from social media, I think we need to all do that quite a bit, turning off your notifications, one of the ways that I do it is at nine o’clock every night, my notifications shut off, they don’t come back on again until seven in the morning. Most of my good friends and my work my co workers and people on my board know, if something is really really urgent, you know, they can get to me somehow, usually through my wife, they’ll call but you know, that sort of thing is where we, we need to sort of set that boundary and create that situation where you know, and in all honesty, I think it’s limiting your video meetings as much as possible to because the more we’re in front of the screens, the more I feel like it’s a little bit more draining, you have to, you know, it’s a little bit more of a challenge to do some of those things. So I really started to look at what this book offered to me. And started taking it piece by piece for one week, I would just think about, okay, how do I get physical rest? You know, and I found that I was sleeping five to six hours in the night. Yeah. And you know, I’m 55. Now I’m not 25. And it’s just not working. So how do I get more rest. And part of that physical rest, too is I do stretching, you know, I try to get up and around and in those types of things. So I think those are the things that I have really locked into. And I think the number one thing is to make sure that you enjoy your work. I have talked, you know, we talked earlier about the fact that I was just not I loved the journalism business, but I was done with it. And it was done with me. So did I enjoy that work, I enjoyed the people that I worked with, and that’s what I miss, I miss the big story. But I don’t miss the day to day grind of it. And that’s why I had to leave, I didn’t enjoy it anymore. And so, you know, I think when we sit down and we look at our daily tasks as chamber leaders, it’s about making sure that you enjoy the work, knowing your values, knowing your boundaries, setting realistic goals for yourself. You know, if you if you’re a if you’re a new chamber director, you know, anywhere is up, right? So you might say to yourself, maybe you know, 200 new members in a year is a great goal. Is it realistic, and have conversations with your board about that? And then the last one that I’ll say is that you have to create a self care plan. You know, for some people, it might, it might look like taking a walk every day for other people it will be, you know, a massage or, you know, buying yourself an ergonomic chair or, or things like that, but what is your self care plan? So that way, you know, hey, I’m kind of stressed out, I need to take a step back and say, You know what I would really like, I’d like to go for a nice long hike today, or if you’re a runner, take a nice run. And part of that self care plan is getting, you know, sometimes back in the gym, you don’t have to lift weights and get buff, but, you know, take, take a little walk on the treadmill, or, you know, work out some of the stress of your life. And so I think those those types of things can help us as we go through the daily grind of the of the job. And look, there’s some times that it’s easier than others, right? If you got a big event coming up, it’s probably going to be a high intense, you know, very arduous time, you probably are going to be lacking in some of those things. But trying to figure out how after that event is over, or that big push that you have on his over to try to get yourself back in balance.
Brandon Burton 21:12
Yeah, yeah, there’s gonna be Sprint’s for sure. We’re, it’s all hands on deck, and you got to give it your all for, you know, maybe a few weeks there, leading up to a big event. But I think that the nature of chambers, and I don’t know that it has to be this way. But it tends to be what’s evolved, at least into what chambers are where, especially as a chamber executive, you’re out and about in the community, people see you, you see people, you need to say hi, and it make those connections, make sure you have good reports as business owners, so they don’t say, man that Mike is a jerk, you came in here and didn’t even say hi, and he probably doesn’t even know I’m a member, right. So you always have your chamber face on. And then inherently there’s, I don’t know, many chambers out there who don’t have a business after hours, right. And that gets into some of the boundaries where you know, or it’s the before hours, they are the breakfast mixers or things like that. And it’s good to have these opportunities for people to gather and network and, but you probably don’t need to be at every single one of them, right. So schedule a rotation with your staff or with board members or have a schedule to where you don’t have to be the face at every one of those events. And I think that that would play well into the balance. And I think to your point on the self care, we need an outlet, right, we need to be able to have a healthy way to let go of some of the stressors that that we carry. And unfortunately, a lot of people will turn to things like alcohol to be able to numb out and get through to the next day. And then that just compounds on the issues that they see day to day. So I think these are great points, as
Mike Throne 22:57
well. And there’s a great way to know that if you go to rest quiz.com r estquiz.com. You can take a quiz, and find out what type of rest you really lack, to live your best life. And that’s Dr. Dalton Smith website. And in all honesty, like taking that quiz was very eye opening. And I I always encourage people to take that quiz because you don’t know where you’re lacking. You think you do, but you don’t know where you’re lacking. And I want to touch on a point that you said as well, you were talking about, you know, the the member that thinks oh, they probably don’t even know if I’m a member. So my first couple of months into this job. The journalism job is a very, very head down, push forward, do your thing. And so when I came here, I had certain habits. And one of them was when I lock into a project or if I’m locked into learning something, I am always going to be head down plow forward. And I was in my office here one one morning and really not aware of what was going out on outside the lobby and I came out and went and walked past somebody as I walked by, and then did my thing came back in my office and just plowed forward again. Hours later, I got a call from my board chair and he said, Hey, I just got a call from the person that was standing outside. And she said that you were rude to her that you didn’t even acknowledge her and so on and so forth. And I was like, I don’t even recall there being you know, like an entity as I walked by. And long story short, she just lost her husband about a month earlier. Literally, I could probably reach out and touch the building that she works in next door. Never met her. And then I realized you know in that situation I had caused hurt her in pain right on top of the hurt and pain that she already felt from the loss that she had. So immediately, I went over and apologized to her. And I mean, we’ve had a great relationship ever since. But you know, those are the things that sometimes we get locked into, when we’re still trying to do all the things that we’ve got to do, we have to remember that this job is ultimately first about relationships, and about how we make people feel, I can tell you a million times that the chamber is here for you. But if I walk past you, right after you’ve lost your husband, and I don’t even acknowledge you, all of that goes out the window. And so, you know, I always have people around me, I’ve got a group of friends that I trust to say, you know, you probably need to spend more time with your family, you probably need to spend more time doing this or that. And I’m blessed with that I’m blessed with a great staff, as you mentioned earlier, to send to other to have a rotation that we can do things because honestly, it is it’s too much to do all by yourself.
Brandon Burton 26:08
Yeah. Back to the thought that comes to mind is to don’t be a busy chamber exec, you know, it, yes, you are going to be busy. But what I mean by that is don’t show the busyness as you interact with people, or have the stress on your face, you know, as you have those interactions that needs to be warm and genuine with those that you come in contact with. Because you don’t always know, you know, when they’re having that bad day, or when they really need the chamber. And just to be able to be that genuine face that really is there to support them is so valuable. So I think the boundary part, though, so as you’re out in the community, you know, if you and your wife go to dinner, this is a it should be quote unquote, you know, personal time, right? A date night, you know, but how do you set aside? Or do you have to go to dinner outside of the community? I don’t know. What do you do to be able to straddle that line of balance to where your wife feels like she’s getting what she needs, and then those in the community that you interact with, feel like they’re getting what they need.
Mike Throne 27:19
So just in case my wife listens to this, I’m gonna, I’m gonna have to be honest. So my father in law, owns a business in town, he’s on school boards, and is a well known figure in our community. So if we go to dinner with them, My in laws, and my wife, my, my wife, and my mother in law, know, to just go to the table. And we’ll work our way to where they always hope that we get seated fairly close to the entrance. Because if not, we’re going to see a million people that we know, and we’re going to chat for a little bit. So I’m not great at that. However, you know, if somebody engages me with a bigger issue that I know is going to take time, I will always say, hey, look, let me give you my cell phone number, call me tomorrow morning. Why don’t I send you a text and we can connect and have coffee or lunch or breakfast? Something like that. Now, if it’s something that’s super urgent, I’ll go back to the table and say, hey, look, this person really needs to talk that maybe might have happened twice in the last five years. Yeah. But they were pretty important issues. And, you know, people are really I think we we, we always think that people aren’t going to be as respectful as they are. I think people understand sometimes. And we don’t think they do. And so if you say to them, man, I want to be fully engaged in this conversation. Because that’s what you’re telling them when you say, we can’t work through this whole thing right now. But let’s do it tomorrow, or the next day or something like that. They want your full attention. And so we just got to remember that they’re asking us because one they know we can help. And two, they want your attention. And three, they think that you’re going to help them with possible solutions. So why wouldn’t they want you to be engaged? So you know, I’m always glad handing and you know, kissing babies. It’s almost like being a politician, right? Like, you know, I’m always doing that. But at the same time, if it’s really urgent, we’ll take the time and then if it’s not, let’s let’s catch up. Yeah,
Brandon Burton 29:27
I think that’s that’s good advice. And I think it all plays back into the chamber churn. I mean, if you’re constantly being stretched in all these different ways, and your family’s not getting what they need out of you, you’re not getting the rest, that you need to be able to be rejuvenated and to give your best self. It’s all going to lead to burnout and the you know, looking for that escape hatch to be able to get out and move on. So I think these are important things to consider. And as we begin to wrap up, I wanted to ask if there’s any A tip or action item that you might share for a chamber who is really interested in taking their organization up to the next level? What would you suggest for them?
Mike Throne 30:08
Yeah, you know, I think it’s, it’s the same. I always tell people, like, don’t be afraid of nothing that you don’t know something. And always be learning. You know, I learned from your podcast from listening to other people, I’ve learned a ton by going to our state conferences, I go to, you know, if you can’t afford to go to ACC, I really do. You know, encourage people to go to that conference as well find ways to connect with your fellow chamber executives, or let your staffs network with their their similar positions near you. Because that is less intensive, it might just cost a lunch or coffee or breakfast or something like that. But I mean, I have learned so much from the folks that I just picked up the phone and said, hey, you know, I’m new to this job, or I’m new to this problem. But I hear that you’ve gone through it, or that you can be helpful. You know, and since I’ve, you know, again, jokingly, we said that I’m now a veteran, but like I’m getting those calls now. And you know, when you when you look at those, those folks calling, you can’t see it as an annoyance. Again, if it’s a boundary issue, then I think it’s really important to say, I can’t give this the attention that it needs to have today. So let’s catch up tomorrow or at our first opportunity to do so. But reach out to those that are maybe they’re brand new, like you and say, let’s tackle this together. Or, you know, there’s strength in numbers. That’s the number. That’s the number one thing I can tell people, I could not have done this, and achieved what I’ve achieved so far. If I just tried to do it all on my own, I would probably still be with my head down, making all my members mad. And, you know, and not not achieving anything. Although I don’t think the folks out in that. Office would let me do that for very long, I guess. But, you know, I just think it’s really important. You don’t know what you don’t know, that was advice that was given to me in my journalism career, probably 20 years ago. So don’t act like you don’t like you do know it, reach out and get the help that you need to start to whittle away at the the issues that you see in your community, and be a help.
Brandon Burton 32:29
Yeah, I love that. I like asking everyone to have on the show, as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?
Mike Throne 32:41
Well, I’m excited about you know, I think we have changes and challenges that we’re going to have to meet right, but I’m excited that this business provides for us an opportunity to help every help people every day. And I think that’s not going to change. Now we’re gonna have to change with the things that are, you know, that are changing along with it, AI is going to be a huge challenge. You know, membership dues and the way they get they get computed and, and paid are a challenge. And so the purpose of chambers has always been to convene and connect. And that’s not going to change. But the way that we convene and connect, is probably going to have to change, one of the things that we have been doing quite a bit of in the last year is instead of blanket, throwing out an event to folks targeting the folks that we think need to be in the room. Because it used to be you could just throw a BA B and tell everybody to come, you could, you know, have a chamber educational session on any myriad of topics and 20 people would show up, and it was no problem. It’s less of that now, people are busier, they’re still dealing with the after effects of COVID, and workforce issues and childcare issues and transportation. And so you’ve really got to figure out should this you know, if you’re going to do an educational event, should it be hybrid or virtual or in person? How long should it be? If it’s going to be in person? How long should it be if it’s going to be zoom? And just have really smart conversations with your folks about what events look like in 2024 and beyond. Because we want to connect as many people as we can, and we want to convene as many people as we can. But we don’t want to bore people to death. And you know, my former profession did a bad job of that. We still did the same stories about the same things and didn’t change for a long time. We didn’t buy into electronics and we didn’t buy into technology. And by the time we decided to react all that stuff, it was far too late. We Can’t let the chamber profession do that. And it’s my hope that folks will start asking better and smarter questions about all aspects of what they do. Because it’s the best way for them to really, and and again, you know, you’re going to have to ask that of your members, don’t sit in an office with three people in a room and say, Hey, what do you think we should change, because we think we’re great. But other people might have great input to offer there. And so find ways to engage those folks in your membership that will help, you know, provide the best way to fulfill your purpose moving forward.
Brandon Burton 35:36
Right, I love that. And they, to your point about connecting and convening those in your community and your members. There was a book I read a while ago called you’re invited. And it’s all about the the art of extending the invitation. And so that blanket email to all the membership to really handpick and say if we’re going to do some kind of a summit on real estate, you know, let’s have all of our Realtors and our lenders and title companies and really handpick who’s coming if we’re going to do something on, you know, a certain aspect of employment, you know, let’s make sure we’ve got a restaurant sector and connect those people together so they can talk about what are the struggles that they’re seeing what’s working for them, and to realize that they can all be there to help and support and, you know, the the networking part, if we go to a networking event, and everyone’s there trying to sell us insurance, that doesn’t really do much for everybody else there. But if you can really connect and network those people that support each other’s businesses, that’s where the magic happens. Yeah, so absolutely. So Mike, I’d before I let you go, I wanted to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for listeners who might want to reach out and connect with you as a, as a mentor. Just learn about how you guys are doing things there at the chilla coffee Ross chamber.
Mike Throne 36:58
I appreciate it again. Thanks for the invitation. This was great. So yeah, we’re the Chillicothe Ross Chamber of Commerce in Chillicothe, Ohio, our website is ChillicotheOhio.com that’s C H I L L I C O T h e ohio.com. I know only five communities in the whole country have a Chillicothe, so you may not know how to spell it. My email is just my first initial and last name. It’s mthrone@chillicotheohio.com. I’m also on LinkedIn, on Facebook. The Chamber itself is on Facebook and LinkedIn. And you can reach out to any through our channels there as well. I also you mentioned the podcast earlier in the in the broadcast. But yeah, it ‘Feels Like Home’ has been we’re in our fourth season right now. It’s basically we just want to spotlight the great stories that are going on our community, people that have started businesses, people that are making an impact in the community through service or things like that. So you can find us on pretty much anywhere you get podcasts, Spotify, Apple podcasts, we use Buzzsprout as our feed. So you can find this on Buzzsprout as well. But we would love for folks to take a listen. When I went to the ACC conference a couple years ago, I was talking with someone from Texas, and they said, Hey, I heard you on a podcast. What what is it? And I said what it was? And they said, Oh my gosh, I listened to that podcast, and it blew me away. I felt like a quasi celebrity for a little while. So that’s right. Listen, please give us a review and send us an email. We’d love to hear from you. Absolutely.
Brandon Burton 38:48
So that’s awesome. We will get all that in our show notes for this episode. And I’m a huge fan of chambers doing podcasts. I think it’s a great way to storytel Tell the story of your community interview those businesses as influencers in your community. And for those who haven’t seen it, I do have a chamber podcasting guide. It’s a free resource for you to learn how to get a podcast started. It’ll be linked in the show notes as well. But feel free to check that out.
Mike Throne 39:17
I did a session at CCO a couple years ago on podcasting and I used your your podcast as an example and pointed folks to your guide. So awesome. Thank you. I learned a lot from that guide. So I appreciate you. Awesome,
Brandon Burton 39:30
appreciate that. But Mike, this has been fun having you on chamber chat podcast with us today. I appreciate you coming on and being candid with the experiences that you’ve seen and and these lessons you’ve learned to find that balance in your life and to be able to find that that meaningful rest. I really appreciate you.
Mike Throne 39:48
Thank you Brandon.
Brandon Burton 39:51
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