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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.
Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your hosts Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.
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Our guest for this episode is Lynn Turner. Lynn is a formally trained business coach, facilitator and people analyst with over 20 years of experience in her business Core XP Business Solutions. Lynn focuses on the core of business people and culture making them stronger and more agile so they can stay competitive in in today’s ever evolving landscape, and lead and change innovation and create better experiences for all those involved. Lynn believes that without a strong core, the best strategies and action plans will be difficult to execute, wasting precious time, money and energy. Her many years working with a variety of businesses in different industries, and unique approach helps organizations build a stronger foundation so they can not only survive, but thrive in these unusual times. Over the years, Lynn has helped individuals and businesses gain clarity about their intentions to make informed decisions so they can achieve their goals and vision for life and business. During this time, she’s helped businesses and boards facilitate strategic planning and thinking sessions innovation and change management and initiatives and high performing teams, utilizing her certifications within virtual collaborations, graphic facilitations, the Lego series, play methodology and innovation management and strategy through wobi, which is world of business ideas, and the Kellogg School of Management, certified in a variety of assessment Tools. Lynn recently attained her Master Practitioner certification with Agile brain, a revolutionary new assessment based on neuroscience that transcends traditional cognitive measurements. Lynn also volunteers her time in a variety of workforce and entrepreneurial development initiatives across the Commonwealth that focus on underrepresented populations, including women bipoc and neurodivergence. But Lynn, I am excited to have you with us today here on Chamber Chat Podcast. I’d love to give you a moment to say hello to all the Chamber Champions who are out there listening, and to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better.
Lynn Turner 3:19
Sure, I’m really excited for this opportunity and to get a chance to talk with you, Brandon, as well as your chamber champions, this is really exciting. I know a few individuals that have been on your podcast and and really admire the work that you do. As far as something interesting, I guess I’ll, I’ll share what we were talking about a little bit earlier. So for anyone, if you’re Googling my name, you might want to try Lynn Whitney Turner, because there is, there are lots of other Lynn Turners, and one out there actually happens to be a mass murderer. So I just want to clarify that I am not that person. So that’s why I use Lynn Whitney Turner, and
Brandon Burton 4:07
this is why we have middle names, right? So you could differentiate ourselves.
Lynn Turner 4:11
Absolutely, absolutely.
Brandon Burton 4:16
Oh man, I can imagine the confusion.
Lynn Turner 4:18
Yes, yes. And I, and I did, as I mentioned to you, I did have somebody that googled my name and said what they found. And I said, Yes, don’t drink the Kool Aid. So yeah, yes, actually, that person did pass away while in prison. So
Brandon Burton 4:35
okay, so no chance of them being confused with you now. So, yes,
Lynn Turner 4:39
exactly. Okay,
Brandon Burton 4:41
well, I know I, I touched on a little bit with your bio, but tell us a little bit about your business and kind of what your focus is, especially as it has to do with when you work with chambers. But what, what is core XP business solutions and and your focus and kind of center of work? Yeah.
Lynn Turner 4:59
Yeah, yeah. So the name core actually came out of something of my my past life, once upon a time, I was a certified aerobics instructor and personal trainer, and that has stayed with me and has really influenced my approach to the current body of work that I’m using, as well as it was influential in the name of my business. You know, with our bodies, I look at business very similar to our bodies, right? And developing a strong core helps us to become stronger and more agile, and that is really, in my opinion, what is needed in today’s landscape. I talk a lot with businesses about VUCA, and VUCA, if you’re not familiar with it, it’s a term that actually came out of the military back at the end of the Cold War, of of all things, and our military, at that point, with the dismantling of Russia, became very concerned with who is our enemy. And then if you kind of fast forward from there to 911 that was really one of the things that they were really scared about. And VUCA stands for volatility, uncertainty, complexity and ambiguity. And it’s now been adopted by the business world. Because I think many people can when they hear of VUCA, they’re like, yeah, that really explains where we’re at in the current landscape. And it’s not really necessarily about change. It’s really more about the pace of the change our world is speeding up faster and faster, and it’s really about helping individuals and organizations stay ahead of that change, if possible, so not just managing the change, but hopefully leading the change. Yeah,
Brandon Burton 7:09
well, that’s a perfect segue into what our topic for our conversation will be to stay is around managing and leading change, specifically in a Bucha world, you know, where there is so much change and volatility and uncertainty and ambiguity, how do we approach this and how do we move through it? So I’m excited to dive in much deeper on this topic. As soon as we get back from this quick break.
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All right, Lynn, we are back. So right before the break, you I think you did a really good job in introducing, kind of what our topic is for our discussion today, on managing and leading change. And I know whenever change is introduced, there’s always that pushback. You know, there’s always people in the group, whether it’s in a board or maybe it’s the lead of the organization that pushes back on the change, maybe it starts at the very top. So as you work with organizations on leading and managing through change, what’s your approach to try to help get everyone on board that? You know, change is a necessity. Change is always happening, whether you want it to happen or not, and especially in today’s world, in the Bucha kind of world, what? What’s your approach to help get their mind wrapped around it? Absolutely.
Lynn Turner 10:13
And you, you brought up some really good distinctions, right? So, change, everybody has a re a response to that word change. In fact, we, in working with an organization on a change initiative. The owner of the company was was pretty resistant, and it really even came down to language. We ended up changing the word change. And instead of calling it change, we called it continuous improvement, because that’s really what we’re looking to do through change. Most leaders and there is a distinction too, between leading change, you know, because if we’re leading change, we want, we’re we’ve already embraced it, and therefore we’re ready to move forward. But to your point earlier, for some of us, it’s being imposed upon us, and typically in those situations, we do push back. Each of us has a different propensity for change, especially if it’s being imposed upon us. And I’ve really been digging down deeper into this. As you mentioned earlier, when you were introducing me, I am a people analyst, which is basically just a fancy way of saying, I utilize a lot of different assessments. And over the past 20 years, I mean, there’s tons of assessments out there, and I follow a lot of Peter Drucker’s work, and Peter Drucker is of the belief. And Peter Drucker is a business management guru who was ahead of his time. He passed away several years ago, but he really was ahead of his time. And one of his quotes is you can’t manage what you don’t measure. So that’s really where the assessments play a role, because if you can measure something, now you can better manage it. And if you’re looking at individuals, we each have a different style, whether you’re using Myers, Briggs, predictive index, I happen to utilize disc each of us has a different style, and each of those styles respond differently to change. So it’s really too about understanding, having that self awareness about how we how we deal with change, but also understanding how others may deal with change.
Brandon Burton 13:04
Yeah, and I like the approach of changing the word change. And I thought that before, before you even said that, that I wonder if there’s a better term we can use for the word change, because there is such resistance, it can be a scary word to hear. Hey, we’re going to change this. There’s a safety in insecurity and in doing what you know has been working, right? So when you change it, there’s, there’s some insecurity that comes with that, but to look at it as continuous improvement, say, Yeah, I think we can all get on board with that, right?
Lynn Turner 13:37
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Brandon Burton 13:41
So as we talk about leading and managing change, I assume you’re working with the leaders of these businesses and organizations to kind of get their head wrapped around how to communicate this to their their staff, or to their organization, to their members, so they’re whatever the organization is that you’re working with, so talk to us a little bit about that. But how you help them manage that that change or lead through that continuous improvement? Sure,
Lynn Turner 14:14
yeah, and it’s about understanding what is the purpose of the change. You know, why is it necessary? So it really is important to set context for for change. Is it change for the sake of change? If so, you know, people may not feel comfortable in doing that, because, as I mentioned earlier, we each have a different propensity for change. You know, some people really enjoy changing things up. Other people like things a little smoother and steadier. And there has been work done by Gallup where they looked at what are followers looking. From their leaders, and they’re looking for four key things when they’ve surveyed followers, and this can be, you know, they’ve done it for large groups, and they’ve been doing this study for many, many years, but four common themes seem to come up. One of them is trust. The followers want to trust in their leadership and trust in their decisions in the direction that they’re going. They’re looking for stability. They are looking for that stability to know that things are going to be okay. They’re also looking for compassion. They want their leaders to kind of understand where they’re coming from and understand what they’re going through in their day to day, and how this change may impact them. And then they’re also looking for hope. And hope is about what is that? Direct. Where are we going? Give me, you know, is it a positive? You know, give me something to hope for, something bigger than myself. So it is about understanding how followers what they’re looking for, before you’re in, helping to set that context about the change and how does it address each of those areas?
Brandon Burton 16:25
I like that. And I imagine followers in different organizations might have maybe different values slightly, but it’s going to stick, you know, pretty traditionally, I would think with these four categories that you talked about as a as a leader, do you need to adopt or really focus on all four categories? Or if you’re really good at two or three, can you lean into those and maybe carry through maybe a weaker category that your followers are looking at?
Lynn Turner 16:57
Yeah, and I think you have to one understand, you know, the type of leader that you are, right? We’re not. There isn’t one set type of leader, right? And and, you know, part of understanding VUCA too, is things are moving so fast that it’s going to require a village. It takes a team so understanding our own strengths as leaders, but also understanding maybe where we don’t have strengths, and building our team accordingly, so that you can hit each of those aspects with regards to what followers are looking for from leaders. And you know, one of the things that I do talk with leaders about, there was a term that I came across, I think it’s from the book talent IQ, and they talk about strategic humility. So strategic humility is knowing, at least having an idea of where you want to go, having that, you know, that strategic purview, if you will, but having the humility to say, You know what, I’m not exactly sure how to get there, and I’m willing to ask for help. So that’s also to the the name of my company is core XP that so I explained core. Core is really about developing that core. And for me, the core of your business is your people and your culture and and that’s what drives your business, that’s at the heart of your business. And everything radiates out from there. It radiates out into how you do, what you do, your internal operations, systems and processes, into your products and services. And that’s what interfaces with your customers and creates your brand image. So that’s the core. And then then two, the core for individuals is emotions. We are driven by our emotions. Those are at our core and their subconscious, and they influence our mindset, in our attitudes, which also influence our behaviors. And our behaviors are what people see. So it’s really about understanding our core and I’ll explain a little bit more about that, but that XP process is actually a process that an intellectual property that I’m developing, and it really about creating an innovative culture and mindset for individuals and organizations, and it’s really steeped in curiosity. So it is about helping you know leaders to be to really lead with curiosity, because we can. Have all the answers. It’s impossible today, in today’s Bucha world,
Brandon Burton 20:03
right? And that, if you’re looking for answers within your followers too, that that creates more buy in and and appreciation of them, seeing feeling valued and noticed by their leader, looking to them to help with that continuous improvement.
Lynn Turner 20:20
Absolutely, yeah.
Brandon Burton 20:23
Okay, so talk to us a little bit more about the core. You said, come back to that and more on that focus. Yeah,
Lynn Turner 20:30
yeah, yeah. So I mentioned earlier about the assessments, and as I had mentioned to you, I utilize disc. Disk is about behaviors. So that’s kind of in that outer ring of the individual, if you will. Because we’re onions, right? Individuals, people, humans are very complicated. We are very complicated, but our behaviors are what people see, our motivators. And you did talk about kind of those motivators. That’s another layer of us, and that’s not seen. That’s why we do what we do. Behaviors are how we do what we do, but motivators are why we do what we do, and we’re each motivated by different things. So you kind of talked about that, that you know, understanding what motivates people can help them work through the change, if you will, or that continuous improvement, but really at the core of individuals, our emotions, and that has not been an area that we’ve really been able to measure up until recently, I recently, as you shared earlier, I’ve become a Master Practitioner with a very new tool. It’s it’s revolutionary, called Agile brain. It’s based in neuroscience. It’s literally taken 125 years of motivational theory and condensed it into a pretty simplistic, not simple, but simplistic model that we are really finding incredible for for one understanding unmet needs and motivators for individuals, and also for understanding culture within an organization, because a lot of times, traditional surveys are asking you to think about how you feel, and there’s A lot of flaws in that which I can explain.
Brandon Burton 22:43
Yeah, that’s that’s fascinating, the the flaws in thinking about how you feel. And I, I’m guessing, there’s some maybe expectations that maybe you shouldn’t feel this way or shouldn’t feel. So if you give too much thought into it, it’s like, well, what’s the expectation on what I should feel, and it’s kind of skewing. Is that kind of the along the right paths of,
Lynn Turner 23:07
Oh yeah, yeah, you’ve kind of nailed it. So, you know, a lot of organizations do employee satisfaction surveys, or with chambers are doing member surveys, right? And the challenge becomes, we’re asking people to think about how they feel, and they may not share. So there’s reasons that the answers you get may not be accurate. One is, people may be trying to please, so they’re going to kind of share that very rosy picture of things because they’re trying to please others. Others may not be completely honest because they may not feel safe sharing. But the other piece of it is through the neuroscience, our emotions come from the limbic part of our brain, and in that limbic part of our brain we have no language. So I don’t know Brandon for you, but I know for myself, there have been times where I don’t even know how to explain how I’m feeling, and it’s because it’s wrapped up in that limbic part of the brain, and it’s really not until it gets to the nearer cortex, the frontal lobe, until we’re able to make sense of it and put language to it, because that’s the rational side of our brain.
Brandon Burton 24:35
That’s fascinating. I think, going back to the VUCA world, where we’ve got so many, you know, volatility and uncertainty and complexity and ambiguity. There used to be a time where maybe it, maybe it’s more of a perception than a reality, but people seem to be pretty cookie cutter, right? Like you go to school, you get a. A job. You work there your whole life, until you retire, and then you move on, and once you start introducing feelings into this like, as a leader, what are you supposed to do with somebody’s feelings? And that’s a whole nother discussion, I think, to be able to train and help leaders understand how to deal with the feelings and then motivate. Because even though even the motive, the motives that people have for why they do what they do, being based on feelings, not everybody has the same motives for showing up to work and doing their task and what it just kind of opens a can of worms that it’s a can that needed to be open. So how do you work with the leaders on this, on on managing that that change,
Lynn Turner 25:44
you brought up a few, a few different things that that are pretty interesting. So first of all, I do have to forewarn individuals with regards to Agile brain. If you’re looking to do culture work for your organization, it is not for the faint of heart. So I forewarn leaders, do not go down this path unless you are really want to know right? Don’t ask the question unless you really want to know the answer. So first of all, otherwise, I don’t recommend it, and unless you plan to do something with that information. So it’s not just about, okay, now we know whatever you gotta do something with the information, but it can be, it can be, it can be scary, right? Because maybe you weren’t ready to hear this information, but the, you know, there’s a I’ve had the opportunity to see Alan Mulally speak. Alan Mulally was the former CEO for Boeing many, many years ago, and then he got he started working with Ford, and that was during the the financial crisis, and they were the only one. They were the only car company at that time that did not take the bailout. But Alan Mulally had a belief that you can’t manage a secret, so you really have to get to the heart of things if you’re really going to solve the challenge or the problem or come up with solutions. So agile brain really helps you identify specific areas that may need some assistance. And sometimes it’s just communication. It’s not it and sometimes it’s things that the company offers, but employees aren’t aware of it, so having this information just helps you build a stronger core, if you will, of of people and culture.
Brandon Burton 27:52
Yeah, I like that coming back to the core. So how does agile brain? How does it work? Is this like, do you put on, like a helmet? Is it a test? What does it look like to actually perform this neuroscience on these followers and organizations?
Lynn Turner 28:09
Yeah, yeah. No, no helmet required, unless maybe for afterwards, when we do debris, but no helmet required for that. It’s actually, it’s really quick, and that’s part of the neuroscience. We don’t want people to have time to think. The other thing is, it’s image based, so it’s not no text. There is a prompt, and we can customize the prompt to help, you know, really get at what you’re trying to get at for the organization. So if it’s around culture, we would do it about how people feel about working at XYZ. And then basically, these pictures flash in front of you, and it takes three minutes, and you’re done, and it will show what we would call activation in different areas. So it’s basically broken down into four domains of self, which is that world within us, material, which is the external world of work and play, social, which is about our relationships and our connections, and then spiritual, which is about higher ideals and principles. And then there are three levels. There’s the foundational level, which is about being, there’s the experiential level, which is about doing, and then there’s the aspirational level, which is about having. So as you can see, I mean, Maslow’s is probably the most widely known or understood. So it does pull from Maslow, as well as a host of other bodies of work, but those are kind of the four, four domains and three levels that it looks at.
Brandon Burton 29:54
Okay. Well, that helps, because I’m picturing like nodes and stuff hooked up to your brand, and I. Like in the laboratory, all sorts of stuff. No, that that makes sense. So I’d like to ask, as I have people on the show for those listening, they’re typically leaders of chambers of commerce. For these chamber leaders who are looking to elevate their chamber to the next level, what kind of tip or action item might you share with them, especially as it relates to managing and leading change? Yeah, so
Lynn Turner 30:29
with leading change, so, you know, we talked about VUCA, and we kind of talked about that ominous volatility, uncertainty, complexity and ambiguity, there is a flip side. So the way to fight VUCA is with VUCA. So it is about developing a vision. It is about having understanding of both your internal and your external worlds, and then also having clarity and creating clarity for those inside your organization as well as those outside your organization, and then building in agility. So these all need to be built into your organization, into your culture. But one of the biggest things that I talk to leaders about is shifting that mindset, because I think a lot of leaders felt that they need to be experts, and there’s a lot of pressure to be experts, and as I think you need experts within your organization, but as you rise through The ladder and become a leader. It’s more about being an explorer and leading with curiosity. So that’s kind of the shift that I’m I’m suggesting to leaders of all kinds, whether chambers, business world leaders even, is to really shift into curiosity. And one of the reasons, when we are genuinely curious, we are void of judgment. So if we’re void of judgment and we have that curiosity, we’re able to make better decisions, because sometimes we want to get we’re too attached to certain things and improving our expertise, if you will. And that can sometimes narrow the aperture, and in today’s world, we really need to widen that aperture.
Brandon Burton 32:37
I like that. I love the idea of curiosities and void of judgment and, and I think it may be helpful even to put that out there as you ask questions and try to learn more, to say, look, this is coming from a place of curiosity, so there is no judgment attached to it. I want to learn more about you and what motivates you and and being able to create the flip side of VOCA, the vision understanding clarity and agility. I love that. So Lynn, as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how would you, from your perspective, how would you look at the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?
Lynn Turner 33:19
It’s an important question, right? And I have been working with several different chambers, and, you know, I think it does. I’ll go back to Peter Drucker. He’s got a slew of different quotes that just really resonate. He really was ahead of his time, but he asks a couple questions, What business are you in, and what business do you want to be in, or what business will you be in for the future? And depending on how you define yourself, can tell you a lot, because if we say we’re a buggy whip company. Well, then I if we’re locked into that, that may not give us an opportunity for future growth and expansion if we’re so attached to being that buggy whip company. So I think it is about really taking a good hard look at who you are, what you do, and why you do it. What is that purpose? What is that vision? And for chambers, it is a difficult time. You know, there’s a lots of different competition out there. And I mean, where I am, we have, we have chambers in every town, if you will. So there’s a lot of competition, and the businesses only have so much, you know, so many resources as far as time, money, energy. So where do they? Want to best spend that time, money, energy. So I think it’s really about also asking yourself, what problem are you trying to solve for your your members, your community, whatever it is.
Brandon Burton 35:12
Yeah, absolutely. I love that. This has been a fun, interesting conversation. Admittedly, it’s gone some directions I did not expect. So this is hopefully listeners as well, are taking some notes and thinking of different perspectives, different angles that they can take with their their followers, with their members, with their staff, their board, to be able to figure out what, what are the emotional aspect that drives their motives to their actions, that they see to further drive engagement and participation. So I appreciate the perspective you brought your expertise and ability to speak so clearly to this topic. I did want to give you an opportunity, Lynn, to share any contact information for listeners who may want to reach out and learn more or figure out more about your work. What would be the best way for them to reach out and connect with you?
Lynn Turner 36:13
I’m sure they can email me at lynn@corebusinessxp.com and that is the web website as well, corebusinessxp.com so either way is, is fine. And you know, the biggest two thing too, I would say, for chambers too, is getting that alignment with you, with your board, making sure everybody’s on the same page and has the same understanding of language, too.
Brandon Burton 36:47
Yes, I think that’s key. Well, I will get this in our show notes for this episode so people can can find you there. But again, Lynn, this has been a fun and a fun conversation. I’ve learned a lot, and I’m sure as I go back and re listen to this episode of I’m going to pick up some other things too that kind of sink in the second time around. So I appreciate it, and I see a lot of application into the chamber world. So thank you so much for being with us today.
Lynn Turner 37:15
Yeah, thank you. Thank you. I really appreciate it. Brandon, it was great conversation with you.
Brandon Burton 37:20
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