Category: Collaboration

The Art of Curiosity with Candace Carnahan

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your hosts Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

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Our guest for this episode is Candace Carnahan. Candace is a relationship driven, solution oriented leader with a passion for putting strategy into action. As the President and CEO of the Grand Junction Area of Chamber of Commerce. She is committed to fostering a thriving business climate in western Colorado through advocacy innovation, innovative partnerships and forward thinking initiatives that benefit the local businesses. The chamber serves. Candace is a board member of W. A.C.E. and a graduate of the US Chamber of Commerce Business Leads Fellowship, which focuses on the critical connection between K through 12 education and workforce development. A Grand Junction native and graduate of Central High School, Candace is enjoys golfing, hiking with her dog, Harlow, and spending time with her husband of 20 years. Candace, I’m excited to have you with us today, here on Chamber Chat Podcast. I’d love to give you a moment to say hello to all the Chamber Champions who are out there listening, and to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better.

Candace Carnahan 2:11
Yes. Brandon, thank you so much for having me. I think that it alluded to it a little bit in my bio there. But, you know, I think something that I a lot of people find interesting is that I’m able to act in this leadership role in a community that I was born and raised in, and so went out and and had my adventures growing up, but to come back and serve the community that my family continues to have deep roots in is such an honor, and, quite frankly, makes the work just that much more rewarding to know that this is a place that I’ve called home for a very long time.

Brandon Burton 2:50
You are like a poster child for workforce development, right? You grow up in the community, you leave, get your education, but you come back, right? That’s what we want them all to do. Yeah, exactly. That’s awesome. Well, tell us a little bit about the Grand Junction area Chamber, just to give us an idea of size, staff, scope of work, budget to kind of set the stage for our discussion today, absolutely.

Candace Carnahan 3:11
So our chamber is located, it’s about the last thing you hit between Denver and Utah. So we’re on that western edge of Colorado. We are honored to represent nearly 800 businesses here locally as investors in our chamber that represent almost 45,000 employees. But we also make sure to support the region in a number of different efforts, whether it’s workforce development and policy as well. So we currently have a full time team of six here at our chamber, and our budget is just over $800,000 annually.

Brandon Burton 3:49
All right, that’s perfect. That’s the stage for our discussion today, and I’m excited to dive into our discussion. It’s not the typical type of conversation that we have on the podcast, but it’s something that I think is important for every chamber staff to listen to and to really lean into, and that’s the art of curiosity. And we’ll dive in deeper on that. I’m curious to learn your approach on this as soon as we get back from this quick break.

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Brandon Burton 8:23
All right, Candace, we’re back. So as I mentioned before the break today, we’re talking about the art of curiosity. And I understand you’ve presented on this before at W A C E, and granted, not everybody listening is a member of W A C E, and like I mentioned before, we hit record, to be honest, even going to conferences, we only really retain a percentage of whatever is presented. So it’ll be great to have this documented and have it be shareable for chamber leaders throughout the country and really anywhere they are. So I’m going to hand the mic over to you and let us, you know, give us an idea as you approach your work, how does curiosity come into it? Has it benefited you? What are some of those key things to think of and just, you know, start where you want to start from.

Candace Carnahan 9:09
Yeah, Brandon. You know, I think this is something that leaders in all industries could really lean on, especially with the climate that we find ourselves in as leaders these days, but as chamber executives, being curious is, in my mind, the only way to make sure that you are always focused on the right solutions and the right problems. It is so easy to get caught up in complex community issues, workforce challenges, policy debates, and if you aren’t crystal clear on the work that needs to be done and why it needs to be done, well it’s going to make our job that much harder, and it’s already hard enough. And so I actually got advice. Oh. Really early on in my role here as CEO, and it was always lead with curiosity. There should always be a question as your first thought, and oftentimes the first thing out of your mouth when you’re approaching things, because there’s typically are different layers than just the one that you’re seeing at face value. And so it’s so important as chambers and chamber executives, when we are faced with a never ending parade of challenges and issues and needs from those that we serve to make sure that we’re we’re staying as effective and intentional as possible.

Brandon Burton 10:41
It seems like just throughout the world that there’s a lot more tension than there used to be, whether it’s politically or just how one sees the world. So I think that’s so important to be curious and learn. You know, what makes somebody see the you know, from their perspective on whatever the topic is, and you can learn a lot, you know, by asking those questions. And I think there really is an art to it, because you can ask questions, and you know, the recipient of the questions might think, well, she’s kind of dense, you know, for not knowing that answer, or, you know, this person’s naive for asking this question. So how do you lean into the curiosity in that art form? What are some of those things that you’ve learned in leaning into the curiosity? I

Candace Carnahan 11:30
really love this question, and I first want to just clarify that I feel there, there’s internal curiosity and external curiosity, and it’s a careful balance of this. I want to make sure that we as chamber executives are internally being as curious as possible. When you think you’ve asked all the questions, ask yourself one more time. Okay, but what is the true issue here? Or what? What person is missing from this table? What is the true resource that would move the needle on this, and then, if I don’t have it, who is the best person to help leverage in this, in this question? So I think those are the internal things that you’re constantly trying to address. But when you externally, sometimes just the simple, can you help me better understand this, or what I’m hearing is can, is that correct? Just getting Clara clarity of things, because not only are we looking at a large volume of issues that we’re trying to face as chambers, but the speed is very quickly picking up as well. And so slowing down the conversations to take the time to get to the root of things is so critical, and I have found myself when I say what I’m hearing is, Can Is that correct? They’ll say, oh, that’s that’s not quite what I meant. But let me help clarify in your because just think of how many times we assume we understood what was said, or we think we know where this is going, and that can not be the case. So by taking just a little bit of time with your questions, to slow down the conversation and be really intentional with the information that alone is going to drive you in the right place. And you know, this is not asking questions for the sake of asking questions. I want to make sure that’s really clear. It’s using questions to help you dig a little deeper, right? And fine tune your efforts and initiatives. Is really, really the goal here.

Brandon Burton 13:38
Yeah, I think the key, like you started off with, is that internal curiosity that’s going to keep things authentic. If you’re really trying to get to the root of what’s causing, you know, a situation or an individual’s thinking or perspective or whatever, if you are internally curious, it’ll be authentic and getting to the right questions, getting to the root of what that that causes?

Candace Carnahan 14:01
Brandon, I can’t, I can’t emphasize that enough. I think that, you know, it’s so easy for us to take things at face value, or take the information that we’re being handed or read a newspaper headline or whatever it is, I think we have to take a moment to say, Okay, but what else? What else am I not seeing in this first contact here or this first interaction? What else should I be looking for or knowing or thinking about? Because as chamber executives, that’s that’s really critical we we represent such a diverse group, even within the business industry, and then you pepper and community dynamics, policy, it gets messy, really, really fast. And I love that you used the word authentic, because anytime you stop being curious, that is typically when you veer off your path of authenticity, and that’s usually when you become less effective and less. Impactful as a chamber of commerce and in the toughest of moments, and you can’t see the light, I think your curiosity is that beacon of, okay, what this is my little step forward. This is how I can continue to move forward in this situation. Because if you’re so far off that path by just being reactive and and not really getting to the root of things that not only are you less effective, I think you can be damaging within your organization and community, if you aren’t really clear on what it is you should be doing instead of what it is you are doing. Absolutely,

Brandon Burton 15:36
I was thinking, you know, as as far as how somebody views the world, it’s interesting how people, just in general, will identify with certain things, whether it be, it could be something, you know, drastic, like political alignment. You know, I identify as this, and because of that, I’m going to make the stance no matter what, you know, hell or high water, I’m making the stance. It could be something as simple as even a diet structure, you know, somebody follows, and they believe this is the only way to do, to eat, you know, to be healthy, because this is what I do, and that’s their worldview. And to understand that there’s always multiple perspectives. There’s always reasonings for both sides of whatever it and sometimes there’s multiple sides. So being able to lean in authentically is huge. It’s

Candace Carnahan 16:29
huge. I mean, when you compare it to let’s compare building a community to building a house. If everybody showed up on the job site and they all had the same perspective as the plumbers, that was their that’s what they did. They agreed on great plumbing and what type of piping and what type of faucets, the plumbing is going to be outstanding. The rest of the house is going to be very questionable. And we as a community need to make sure that we are also realizing that we’re all coming together to a table to build something. And what we need to be doing is working together to create the best structure and outcome possible. You know, the painters and the plumbers are going to disagree sometimes, and timing might be a challenge, and there’s all these different things, but at the end of the day, they’ve worked together to create a really great product and a really great home. And I think we need to make sure as a community, to be able to step back and make sure that we’re having disagreements of tasks and not of relationships. And that comes to really asking the questions both of ourselves and of our partners. Of First of all, here’s a really important question I ask all the time, is, what is my role in this conversation, but also, I say, what is their role in the conversation? I can’t be holding them to an accountability level of the role of a role that’s not appropriate for their seat at the table. And it’s funny how often we will do that and say, well, we we’re disagreeing. You should think differently. Well, that’s their role. Is that perspective, and we have to honor it and move forward with it, and it does bring you to better solutions, or at least better understanding of where everyone lies in the conversation. So, yeah, it’s so important for us to take a step back and just really understand not just our own why, but everyone else’s why, because the motives in the conversation are really going to be where everyone is operating out

Brandon Burton 18:32
of yeah, that is huge. And that’s not something that I had considered before. Is understanding what their why. I think a lot of people will understand what’s my why, you know, why am I engaging in this conversation, or whatever it may be, but to understand the other person’s Why, what their point of view is, what, what’s bringing them to the table? And I don’t know, for me to make sense of it, I think of, you know, in a TV show, when you see a courtroom, right? You’ve got the prosecutor and you got the defense, and somewhere in the middle is the truth, right? And but both sides have their role that they’re they’re working towards, and it’s important to understand what that role is, so you can come to some sort of agreement

Candace Carnahan 19:12
Absolutely you you would not want to be in a position where they were expecting you to shift off of your mission, your why? Your unwavering advocacy for the business community. That’s not something that you would want them to ask of you, and oftentimes we shouldn’t be asking that of them. We have to recognize that, you know, we each have parts to play, and they’re very different sometimes and sometimes they’re not. But it’s really important to keep that in mind. Absolutely,

Brandon Burton 19:39
I love the analogy you gave of building a house and you’ve got the different contractors building a house. It reminds I’d seen a reel a while back where this person is impersonating different tradesmen as they come to a construction site, and how they approach things, from the plumber to the electrician to the drywall guy and the painters and. Everything and and obviously it’s coming from a skewed perspective of, you know, a certain contractor not understanding the why for why the plumber is doing things the way they are, or the electrician doing things the way they are. And it’s kind of poking fun at them. But if you could get to the root of why they do what they do the way they do, it changes everything. And you could build a better house, or you could build a stronger community. It’s

Candace Carnahan 20:23
so important, and I find myself often saying, what, where? Where am I most living in the uncomfortable because that tends to be where I either haven’t been curious enough or haven’t gotten to know that area enough so there’s clearly unanswered questions. And what’s exciting is that gives me opportunity to say, You know what to be great at what I do. I need to go explore that perspective. I need to either go spend time with them. I need to go witness firsthand what it is they’re trying to communicate to me, I just need to have a better understanding and opportunity to ask questions outside of the heat of the moment, often outside of when we’re trying to hash out solutions. But just tell me more about your perspective, and that way, when we are in the next conversation, you are that Curiosity has led you to a more informed place. It it could reinforce where you’re at. It could shed light on where opportunities for collaboration are. It can also create opportunity for how you can leverage partnerships and work together. Because I now, I didn’t know you had that tool in your toolbox, and I have, you have the hammer, I have the nails. Hey, why are we not working together? And so it’s very rarely does anything bad come from being curious. I think that’s just i I’ve challenged when I, I thought about this conversation today, I was trying to say, Are there any pitfalls of being curious? And I’m sure there are, but it’s very few and far between. I would say, yeah.

Brandon Burton 22:10
I think the pitfall would be as if you’re not internally curious, if you’re not focusing on that, that would be the big pitfall when

Candace Carnahan 22:17
you aren’t that’s where it starts to get dicey. Yeah. So

Brandon Burton 22:21
I was thinking of it from the standpoint too, of as you have a new business member, investor in your organization, to be able to just be curious about what they offer. Like you said, they’ve got the hammer, you’ve got the nails. What connections can we make? So it doesn’t even have to come from a point of where there’s tension at all. It can just be, I want to learn more about what you have to offer. How can we help you? And again, knowing what their role is and what your role is, and trying to align those to, you know, build the perfect community, right? To build a stronger, better community and and make those connections. That’s what a chamber is all about.

Candace Carnahan 22:55
I love there’s no boundaries to how you can use this tool. That’s what’s exciting. You know, it’s, it’s a free tool. It’s, it’s something that you can create as an asset. And I keep saying, as a CEO or in chamber leaders, this should be something that you are including your whole team on in the journey. If your entire team is operating with this premise of being curiosity, to go back to your invest investor membership conversation, we regularly say that our those conversations are more about us getting to know them than it is about them getting to know us. And if we walk away without having any conversation about what tier levels or opportunities are, that’s okay, because what we’ve done is we’ve been curious about their business and shown them that they matter, and we want to know about how they fit into this really important piece within the business community. We’re already building a strong relationship with them, and that can be used on board, members, volunteers. If you are the more you get curious about what people what they need, what motivates them, you’re much better positioned to serve that person or support that person. If you are operating off of what you think they need or think motivates them, you have a really good shot of missing the mark. And so, yeah, this is something that can be used all the time community partners. There’s, you know, use your use your survey tools. That’s the one of the biggest things you can do by just It’s funny how often I hear people say, Huh, I wonder what our members would feel about this. Ask them five question flash bowl, hey, how do you feel about this? I think sometimes we just discount the ability to just ask,

Brandon Burton 24:52
yeah, I love that. So the idea of including your whole team, that just really resonates with. With me, it really doesn’t move the needle. If only the chamber executive is the one on board with curiosity. If your team’s not doing it again, it goes back to authenticity. Doesn’t seem real, and you’re not going to have all the touch points that the rest of your team has. How do we integrate that within staff, within the board, maybe even ambassadors? How do we integrate that curiosity and generate that movement? Is how I see it.

Candace Carnahan 25:26
I am so glad you asked that. I think first of all, you have to normalize it. There can be stigma about asking questions, and somehow it makes you seem like you’re not paying attention or not skilled enough to handle the situation. We really have created a culture around the fact that the problem only comes if you’re not asking questions. Are you asking for help? Are you asking how this connects with another teammates work? Are you asking how our members could be benefiting from this or who else might be interested in this resource, we try to ask ourselves, which is funny that I say that, but anytime we’re doing something it, we kind of say, Okay, but what else you think it’s you think it’s done or you think that you’ve explored it? Yes, but what else like if you could push just a little further into that curiosity zone, what? And then it’s funny, how often say, Oh, well, actually, you know, I could explore something a little bit differently. Or it’s amazing what just that little nudge over the edge will do. It also, by doing this as a team. I think it shows to our members in our board what our motives are, and it has created an atmosphere where they feel comfortable to come bring us information as well. So maybe we haven’t outwardly asked for it, but because of how we have integrated this as a culture, they know that we’re open to feedback and differing perspectives even when we’re not asking for it. So I think it’s it’s simply about incorporating it naturally into everything you do, and making sure that everyone understands that the only time there should be concerns is when we as a group stop asking questions. And if someone is not asking questions, we need to kind of turn to them and say, Is there something we could be doing to help support you in opening up this communication? Yeah, we always end and start and end every staff meeting with questions to each other as well. It’s not just me, you know, it’s, do you have any team? Do you have any questions for our marketing director team? Do you have any questions marketing director? Is there anything that the team could be helping or supporting you with instead of just waiting for it to happen? It’s, I’m opening the door, jump in and and it’s really exciting to see that take off, because they are and they they do it naturally, and it makes us all better, because our organizations are not just the CEO. I think that’s we know that, but it’s really easy to get into that mode. The organizations are every single person, volunteers, board members, your investors, and that’s got to be something that everyone does. Yeah, I love that.

Brandon Burton 28:22
What else are we missing out of the art of curiosity, I feel like there’s questions that I haven’t asked. What are what are the things that are on the top of your mind? You

Candace Carnahan 28:33
know, the only thing that comes to mind is that a question asked once is not necessarily a question answered, and so don’t be afraid to go back and ask again. And I’m just going to give this example our chamber. I’m very lucky to have inherited a chamber that is very strongly positioned. We had a CEO who was very well respected, and she was here for 35 years. And so I learned from one of the best in the industries. But being able to say, even though we know who we are as an organization and we really excel, who is it we do we want to be today? And that is actually something that at every strategic planning session, we say, okay, we know who we are now. Who do we want to be tomorrow? And I think that’s something that can also be brought into other conversations. We know this workforce development strategy is working now, but what is it that our businesses need tomorrow? And so as long as you’re continuing to evolve your questions and go back and just check in on them. I think that’s really important, because answers can get stagnant, and I that’s again, you have now as an organization, stopped being curious about how to be the best version of yourself, and we have to continue to do that.

Brandon Burton 29:53
So maybe a 2.0 episode would be the art of asking the question, right? So you can. You’re curious, but then there’s a way of asking the question to where you can get the answer instead of, you know, how are you doing? I’m good. You know, there’s a better question to be asked,

Candace Carnahan 30:08
right? Oh, yes, absolutely. I love that.

Brandon Burton 30:11
Well, Candace for a chamber listening who’s wanting to take their organization up to the next level. What kind of tip or action item or piece of advice would you share with them and trying to accomplish this goal?

Candace Carnahan 30:28
I would say that you have to lean into the uncomfortable oftentimes, there can also be a fear about asking questions, because they’re like, oh, that means more work. Like, I don’t want to

Brandon Burton 30:40
know. I am not doing that, right?

Candace Carnahan 30:44
I would say this, you know, we’re not asking you to turn over all the rocks right right away. I’m just saying when that this is actually meant to be a tool to help lead you towards a more efficient level of effectiveness, right? So start small. Find a couple things that you can just get comfortable and see that Okay, two more questions actually didn’t make it worse. It actually streamlined my path to a productive solution. Or, holy moly, I was completely going down the wrong path. Or I had an answer that was actually in search of a problem. There really is no problem here. I can pivot and now divert resources. So start small. Find some things that you can just say, Hmm, what if I just thought one layer deeper, and go from there? Yeah, you’ll find it will start to integrate itself into your life. More and more

Brandon Burton 31:38
I like that. So I like asking everyone I have on the podcast, as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Candace Carnahan 31:50
Well, you know, it’s funny. I do tie it, actually, to this topic. I have felt, and I see it more and more and more about our role as being that convening agent in our communities being our most important role that we play, especially with how divided everything seems to have a hard line drawn, and people are picking sides. And what’s unfortunate about that is it, it really does keep us away from true solutions for many of the challenges that we’re facing as communities. And so I think it is important for us, if we are, if we’re not saying who’s missing from this conversation, or what is the true problem that we’re trying to tackle here, to make sure we’re all aligned. Because, gosh, if, if you think you’re solving this problem and I’m solving this problem and we actually are in the same table trying to solve the same problem, we’re not going to get very far. And so I think as chambers, we have to really, I would say, if you do nothing, do that be the person that’s able to come to the table, bring people to the table. And if you’re operating from that curiosity standpoint, you’re curious on how we as a group can get to the best solution, and that’s your motivating factor to be there, not to be the person that has a feather in their hat. Because I brought everyone to the table, it’s I’m curious on how we can bring our ability to get everyone at the table and truly walk away making an impact. I think that’s going to be something that we have to lean into, because there there are other resources for a lot of the other things that we’re doing. But if we’re not bringing people together to to solve and navigate the barriers and burdens facing our businesses, we’re not going to be effective. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 33:39
I like that. That’s a great tip in how we look and navigate into the future. Candice, I wanted to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for listeners who might want to reach out and connect with you. Maybe learn more about your approach to curiosity. What would be the best way for them to reach out and connect with you?

Candace Carnahan 33:59
I always welcome anyone to email me. It’s very easy to find me. It’s just candace@gjchamber.org We do have a great website as well where you can find me, which is GJChamber.org. But I’m always happy to talk to anyone. And you know, this is, this is hard work that we all do as chambers, and the more we can lean on each other and share information and opportunities, I think we’re better for it.

Brandon Burton 34:35
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I appreciate you spending time with us today and letting us, you know, be a little curious about your approach and how you how you approach things there at the Grand Junction area, chamber and and just your work in general. I think it’s a great way, a great way, to have a perspective, to learn more, and to really allow you to serve your business community in a much better and elevated way. So. Thank you for sharing that with us today.

Candace Carnahan 35:02
I really appreciate the opportunity and and thank you for all that you do to to keep us all tapped in on the important things facing our industry.

Brandon Burton 35:10
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Non-Profit Collaborations with Crystal Narr

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Our guest for this episode is Crystal Narr. Crystal is the Executive Director of the Chillicothe Area Chamber of Commerce in Missouri, not to be confused the other Chillicothe chambers. We recently had Mike Throne in Chillicothe, Ohio, so but Chillicothe, Missouri, and she had attained her bachelor’s degree in Communication Studies from Missouri Western State University through her many community minded interests, Crystal found her niche in the nonprofit sector, leading downtown revitalization efforts with Main Street Chillicothe for six years before accepting her current role in 2014 she serves in volunteer leadership roles in numerous community and state organizations, including Chillicothe Rotary Club, Livingston County Library Board, Bright Futures Chillicothe, a plus Advisory Committee and the Grand River Technical School institutional advisory board. She currently is serving on the Missouri, Arkansas, Kansas, Oklahoma Chamber of Commerce board, also known as MAKO. She is the current vice president of Leadership Missouri, and will be the 2025, chair of the 19 County Regional legislative event, great Northwest Day at the Capitol. She also served as the 2021 President of the Chamber of Commerce executives of Missouri, and held a seat on the Missouri Chamber of Commerce and Industry board of directors. Crystal enjoys raising her three sons alongside her husband, Travis, on their farm outside of wheeling Montana. Crystal. I’m excited to have you with us today here on Chamber Chat Podcast. I’d love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the Chamber Champions who are out there listening, and to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better.

Crystal Narr 2:56
Well, I’m honored to be asked to be on this podcast. Super exciting. I know that you meet with many individuals all the time that share their knowledge and experience in the chamber realm, and so I’m glad to be added to that list. You know, most of my bio covered, kind of moving forward all the different things that I’ve been involved in. And it’s something that I’m truly passionate about, is that once you become a more I will say tenured chamber executive is being able to give back and help the people that are new and coming into the industry. Because I think we can all agree that it can be overwhelming at times and feeling like you’re drinking through a fire hose. So anytime that I can help ease some of their worries and show how I’ve been able to, you know, make the best of it over my 10 years in my current role. I consider that a win both ways. So something fun about myself is that in my previous lifetime, I like to say I actually was a dancer and had the opportunity to perform at many different locations that have some, you know, familiar name recognition, like Disney World, Disneyland, Bush gardens, Navy Pier in Chicago. So that’s one of my claims to fame, although it’s been several years back, but still fun to reminisce. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 4:17
so tell Can you tell us a little bit more, what kind of dance were you brought in for performances? Or were you putting on costume? What were you doing? So I

Crystal Narr 4:26
was raised here in Chillicothe, so this, it just goes to show you know that if you have great leadership in any sort of role you know within your community, big things can happen for youth, and that’s something I still try to engage now in my role as a chamber professional, because I just had some great I love dance. I was also in show choir, and because of the leadership within those groups, they sought out opportunities to get youth, you know, into those arenas. And so it provided us some great opportunities and experiences. It long before I even turned, you know, 18, that I got to experience. So

Brandon Burton 5:04
that’s awesome, and it just gives you experience. It kind of opens your eyes to possibilities, and being able to travel a little bit and see some different parts of the country. That’s awesome.

Crystal Narr 5:16
Absolutely, has served me well, because we actually, we won’t necessarily talk a lot about that today, but our chamber actually has a trial a very successful travel program, and I’m the person that gets to assist with those from the start to finish booking, picking the locations, all the way to traveling on the trips with our travelers. So developing that love of travel and experience culture has served me

Brandon Burton 5:40
well. Yeah, that’s awesome. Well, tell us a little bit more about the Chillicothe area Chamber. Give us an idea of the size, staff, budget, scope of work to kind of set the stage for our discussion today.

Crystal Narr 5:51
So the Chillicothe area Chamber is located in northwest Missouri. We are about an hour drive to the Kansas border and about an hour drive to the Iowa border, we are currently sitting just shy of 300 members, which is the highest number of members that we have had in my 10 years. So we’ve seen a lot of growth through 2024 that we’re very proud of. Our budget fluctuates each year, as most do, but we have seen it grow, which I’m grateful for. So annual operating budget sits this year right around $220,000 and then our staff is actually fairly small. We are full time two people, and we do have one membership coordinator who only works one day a week, but makes the most of those eight hours each week. So yeah, and our town population is right around 9500 with our county population being about 15,000 so our Chillicothe holds the bulk of our county population and is the county seat,

Brandon Burton 7:01
yeah? All right, that definitely helps. So are you guys just chamber? Do you have any economic development or tourism, or what? What’s that scope look like? Yeah?

Crystal Narr 7:10
So that’s, I think, what led to the discussion that we’re going to have today about synergy among non profits. You know, within a community, especially what I would consider a smaller community like Chillicothe, and how that can work to everyone’s benefit, because we actually are a standalone organization. We are only the chamber, and there are separate organizations, separate you know what I mean? Boards, budgets, 501, c status for our tourism, our main street organization, economic development, community development corporation, arts organizations, everyone is completely separate, all

Brandon Burton 7:52
right. Well, that definitely helps set the stage for our discussion today, as we’ll focus the majority of our conversation around non profit collaboration. So how you as, as you said, just a chamber, I argue you’re more than just exactly, but how you as as a chamber focused organization, right? How you are able to collaborate with other nonprofits throughout the community? So it’s going to be a worthwhile conversation for for everyone listening, and I’m excited to dive into that as soon as we get back from this quick

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All right, Crystal, we’re back. So before the break, you’d mentioned that you guys are very chamber focused, but you have to rely on these collaborations with the other nonprofits in the community, whether it be economic development or tourism or downtown or arts. Talk to us about how that’s structured, how you go about building those relationships and collaborating, and especially when everybody’s reporting to different their own respective boards, operating within their own budgets. How do you try to lead with that synergy, to try to bring everybody together with the same goals and focus and in those areas that align for everybody to be on the same page?

Crystal Narr 12:21
I will preface this entire conversation that we’re about to embark on with a couple things. One is, I’m not going to pretend that we have it completely together, but I do know that we have figured out what works and what doesn’t work. You know, through trial and error over a long period of time within our community, but then also always coming back to the cliche, you know, quote of a rising tide floats all boats. A rising tide lifts all boats, however you want to say it, because truly, when you get right down to the heart of what everyone’s trying to do it is for the betterment of our community, no matter where you’re located. So that is really the heart of it all, and what we try to focus on. But that being said, it’s not always easy to get all the players around the table. That takes it takes work. It’s not something that happens overnight. So I already use the word synergy, and I probably will use it several times, but really that is what I try to focus on when thinking of these collaborative relationships within Chillicothe. You know the importance of nonprofits working together is basically to create a larger impact than what any of us individually could create, right? Yeah, so, and there are within each of our organizations a lot of shared goals, shared missions, even, you know, within each of our own independent silos. So there are just many facets that work because we are already closely aligned. So it just naturally makes sense for us to work together. We just have to cultivate that relationship to really be able to dive into it.

Brandon Burton 14:16
That makes a lot of sense. How do you do it, though? And I’ve seen it. I’ve seen in a lot of communities where there may even be a sense of competition, you know, between the chamber and another organization within the community and other it may even be another business association. Yeah, you’d mentioned the Downtown Association. That might be a point of competition, in some sense. But how do you get past the competition part and see the synergy part?

Crystal Narr 14:49
Okay, so you know kind of talking about how, like, you’re overcoming the obstacles to get to that point. So here are the things that are probably, dare I say, slightly taboo. Do, and so I’m going to choose my words wisely, and hopefully everybody understands. You know what I’m getting at here, but first of all, it requires a very open line of communication. Now, we all know within our organization there’s some confidential conversations that can’t be had with people outside of our executive board or our board of directors staff, that sort of thing. But outside of that, I truly do feel it’s important to have a very open line of communication with those other entities. Because I can tell you from experience, there have been a few things that have happened where we didn’t have that open line of communication and we were another organization ourselves. Were simultaneously working on a project, both of us, but there was this barrier between us. So, you know, we had opened up, and it wasn’t because we were trying to be secretive. We were just had our blinders on, and we’re, you know, working on it, and they were doing the same thing, and we actually both launched this project the same week, wow, on our social media streams, and then it just was, it was bad PR internally, because it really showed that we were not, we weren’t not communicating whatsoever. So things like that that, you know, just show the importance of having an open line of communication. One of the ways that has been done for us over the years is establishing we have done them monthly. We have done them quarterly. So you could just have to find what works for you and your schedule. But meetings among those entities, a lot of times, it’s over coffee and someone’s boardroom, everybody kind of comes with their calendar of events, their work plans for you know what their to do list looks like for that month, that quarter, whatever it is that you’re planning out. So then, number one, we can all be aware of what’s going on. Number two, we can provide assistance. Number three, we can help promote and number four, we don’t step on toes. You know that everybody is doing their own thing and aware of what everybody else is doing. So that’s kind of my first thing number. I

Brandon Burton 17:05
will say even, even when you were working in your silo with the blinders on, at least it’s a proof of concept, right, like you both saw the importance of working on the same goal, yes, and so just trying to find the positive in this, to be able

Crystal Narr 17:17
to Yes, absolutely. And I will say that because of having a positive relationship between our organizations, that when that happened, it wasn’t like there was some big blow up, disgruntled, you know, situation that ensued following it. Luckily, it was, it was our main street program that we that that occurred with, and it was just this past July, and they ended up being very willing and kind of did this version, you know, and changed it to where then it all worked. We were doing, like a member showcase series of our Chamber members. They were doing the same thing with like downtown spotlights, and they quickly changed it and focused it, instead of the business, on individuals who worked within downtown businesses. So we both still completed the mission of what we were wanting to do, but they kindly altered theirs to just focus on the individuals instead of the businesses. So it still all worked out, if that makes sense, yeah,

Brandon Burton 18:18
which brings a whole a neat perspective within its own So, exactly so.

Crystal Narr 18:25
So here’s my thing, that I’m like, I think everyone will understand it when I say this. But one of the key factors to making it work, especially in a smaller community, but it’s it works on any scale, is that every organization has to, has to stay in their lane. You have a mission. You have to abide by that mission. You cannot deviate from that mission, because if you do, it’s inherently going to step on another organization’s toes, you know, so that that depends like using our kind of our three main nonprofits that we work with. You know, locally the chamber, I always say our main two pillars are business and community downtown. Their focus is going to be confined to the defined district of the downtown and the members and events and everything that takes place within that area. Then we had tourism as our third, you know, leg of the stool of kind of our different entities that partner together, and they’re really focusing on everybody outside of our community and getting them here, right. But really, if you think back to what would that be middle school math, whenever you’re learning about Venn diagrams, right? We are all interconnected in that center piece of the pie, basically so. But we have to make sure that that center piece of the pie doesn’t keep growing to the point that the parts that exist solely to us that that part is bigger because. Then we’re losing sight of what our original mission is. So again, I think that staying in your lane ties back into having that open line of communication and really strong connections with the partnering organizations. So

Brandon Burton 20:18
about staying in the lane, and I can see the wisdom, the value in that. And I think in your structure, where you have all the nonprofit organizations to gather together on a regular basis and go over calendars and what you guys are working on, that definitely helps to see where those lines are drawn. But like you said, that Venn diagram is going to have overlap Absolutely. You all have buy in on certain things, but I can see that being where you’re supporting tourism in this, you’re supporting downtown in this, you have your buy in in that part of the Venn diagram, while helping them in their lane. Is that kind of the approach that you take with that, or is there more to that?

Crystal Narr 21:03
Yeah, no, you really kind of hit it, and it works just in different ways, depending upon each individual scenario. But for instance, our tourism organization, they offer tourism grants that support some of chamber led initiatives or events. Same thing for our main street program. So we are helping them by tourism is not having to put on the events, which we all know is nice when you’re not the one running to organize. But yet, they are a big supporting partner by offering up funds, because we all know we need money to make these things happen. So that’s a win win. It’s a great example of how we can utilize that. But at the same token, when tourism needs support for input, for things that they’re trying to do new initiatives, they’re trying to pursue stock photography that we might have you know on hand, that are, you know, essential to our events, we’re also paying them back by doing those sorts of things to provide support for them as well. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 22:02
I’ve seen in communities where stock photography becomes an issue where, you know, tourism has the rights to picture and, you know, chamber might want to use and say, oh, you can’t use that. That’s our pictures really like, aren’t we all building the same community. That’s it. So, yeah,

Crystal Narr 22:18
that is actually a good segue into kind of the next component of, you know, overcoming those obstacles, which is building trust. Yeah, um, it is key to this whole thing. If you don’t have trust, you’re not going to have synergy at any point, unfortunately, um, and one of the things that makes a big difference with that is personalities and making sure that the players who are coming to the table can come to the table and can be trustworthy. Our supporting partners for each other have everybody’s best interest at heart, not just their own. I think we probably all can relate to scenarios where somebody had an ulterior motive, you know, whenever they’re getting involved with something, and you kind of have to clear all those, you have to check those at the door and make sure that people are truly coming into these conversations with everyone’s best interest at heart, and not just to steal ideas and the manipulator that sort of thing. Something I’m not going to say, this is a little bit of one of those like, do as I say, not as I do, but we, we’ve had it in the past, and do a little bit still, but something we could continue to work on is having either the opportunity for even if it’s not the executive director or CEO of the organization themselves, but having someone in that capacity, maybe it’s a board member that can serve as an ex officio on each other’s boards, so that they are a part of those conversations early on. I think that is a great idea to keep that open line of communication, is something we had the opportunity for locally, and I I loved it. I thought it was brilliant. Was one of our organizations actually was in a period of transition and was hiring for their next Executive Director, and their board had the foresight to reach out to myself and the other entity and say, Would you please come be a part of this interview process and gave us that opportunity, and I will tell you that was it worked incredibly well because that board saw the importance of keeping a Very positive relationship, knowing that our roles are very comparable. And so we could say, oh, this person has the traits, you know, the things that you can’t train a person on that just need to come in and be able to, you know, pick up the reins and take off. And it worked really well. So I think that’s another takeaway, that if. People are willing to initiate that. It, it can work really positively. It’s

Brandon Burton 25:04
a great idea. It’s, it’s a little harder to to outs the person who’s there with the alter your motives and who’s there to, you know, steal ideas and whatnot, but to try to have those open conversations, to build the trust. But then when that typically, those people are not the people that last, right, right? Right, absolutely, there is a vacancy to be able to try to get these boards to come together and say, you know, it would behoove all of us to be able to have each other sit in on these interview processes to create a stronger community. I love that idea, yeah, for sure. So, any other ideas, though, for when there is that disruptor, you know, in the groups where not that you’ve experienced it at all. I mean, I don’t want to put anybody under the bus, but if there is, you know, you get a distractor. You know that that’s within the group, how do you go about trying to build the trust? How do you how do you move the ball forward with that person in that in the mix?

Crystal Narr 26:03
Yeah, we have had a couple different scenarios over my timeline, because you, you know, mentioned in my bio that I actually worked for the chamber as the assistant, and then went to the main street program and was the executive director there for six years before returning to the chamber, and now I’ve been in my role here as executive director for 10 years. So I was fortunate that I came to the table. I’ve worked in both realms, and so I inherently have some institutional knowledge of both, which has, in my opinion, served us well. But at the same point, whenever we do have those conversations with entities that or leadership, you know, in those entities that might not come in with that synergistic attitude and personality, it can be trying at times. And so there are times that you do just have to step away a little bit and figure out ways to cultivate those partnerships. We actually do a few events within our community that are all of us together, and initiatives that are all of us together. So Chillicothe, Missouri is the home of slice bread, right? We were the first place to commercially pre slice and sell loaves of bread. If you can believe that

Brandon Burton 27:24
you guys have made life so much easier, let me tell you, I mean, greatest

Crystal Narr 27:27
city since I you know, we’re trying to live up to our claim to fame, but we actually host annually a sliced bread day, and that is a unified effort that all of us carry some portion of to see that come to fruition each year. And so we have meetings all throughout but again, it is the prime example of everybody staying in their lane, making sure that what we are doing aligns with our mission. It could be even so far, is where the events are located. Downtown. Handles anything that’s located there. Tourism is really focused on the outreach component, getting people to Chillicothe on that day, and then we really handle promoting it locally, an additional component of a concert that brings everybody together to a local business that evening, bringing back local musicians that maybe have since moved away or are still here. And we call it our slice of home concert so and there are other partners that you know, our local museum, our art Guild and gallery, our library, like everybody, kind of has a piece of the pie, but it it’s just one of those things, like it couldn’t work if it was just one of us, but everybody coming together makes that work.

Brandon Burton 28:50
Samples, yeah, yeah, yeah. We

Crystal Narr 28:52
also, this has been several years back, but all came together to host the tour of Missouri, which was basically one step down from the Tour de France bicycle race that everyone’s familiar with, but it was here in Chillicothe as a part of their race across the state of Missouri. And it was huge, I mean, a huge staging event here, and that was really the first of something we have seen of that scope. And so once again, it took a lot of players all coming around the same table to make sure that that happened, and that when people left Chillicothe, they felt like, wow, that community knew what they were doing and were welcoming and gracious, and we would love to go back there again. So it’s just one of those things that, again, everybody stayed in their lane, knew their role, but was also willing to contribute and support others.

Brandon Burton 29:44
Yeah, great examples. I love it. Are there any other aspects that we need to consider when working with non towards collaborations with other nonprofits?

Crystal Narr 29:54
I one of my things that has come up more recently, that. Hopefully other communities are already doing this, but if not, maybe it’s something that would be a new idea for community our size and many other probably even big cities. I think that there’s a saying that you know, if you want to find something done, find the busiest person in town, or that 20% of the people do 80% of the work. Sometimes I feel like it’s probably more 10% do 90% of the work. So in a town our size, we are constantly tapping the same people over and over and over again, whether it’s financially or for volunteer time. So we have collectively started talking about creating a list of community volunteers, and that might even have a component of people who sign up but maybe don’t have the best track record of actually following through. That’s kind of what prompted this conversation between our entities, because there was a volunteer for a main street event, and they said, we said, Oh, do you have enough volunteers for this, you know? And she was like, Yeah, I think so. She was like, we have this, this and this, you know, person that are coming. And we said, oh, she list off a name. And we said, Well, we hope that they show up, because they didn’t for our event, and we were kind of left in the lurch. And she was like, oh, man, I wish I would have known that before I let them, you know, sign up for it, and I didn’t book somebody else with them, so I’d have a plan B. So that’s what started this conversation of possibly creating a cohesive, a collaborative volunteer list, and then also the same thing for maybe financial and that one would be a little bit different in that trying not, you know, to always have all of us hitting up the same five businesses over and over to try to get more creative and see who else is pulling money from them. So then we can try other avenues, so really being collaborative on those sorts of avenues as

Brandon Burton 31:52
well. Yeah, and at the same time, yeah, you want to be careful, because some of those people that do sponsor and donate to these different things, they look forward to that and want to do that, and if they don’t have the opportunity, then you’re going to hear that end of it. So yeah, yeah. Well, Crystal, as we start to wrap things up, I wanted to ask for chambers listening who are trying to take their organization up to the next level. What kind of tip or action item might you offer them to try to accomplish that goal? My

Crystal Narr 32:20
favorite quote is that change is debilitating when done to you, but exhilarating when done by you. So really trying to make sure that people can be a part of the process and to not be afraid of change. You know, I’m nearly 20 years in in some role of nonprofit leadership, and Change is the only thing that I can continue to count on every single year. We really try not to be stagnant. We really try not to fall into that bane of, well, we do it because it’s always been done that way. We are really always trying to reinvent, keep the things that work, but then change the things that need to be changed, to consider us progressive minded. And so that’s my one takeaway for any don’t be scared of it, and make sure that you’re taking people along with you for that change, so that they also want to embrace it, and that includes your board, your membership and your community.

Brandon Burton 33:28
Yeah, there’s so many dynamics to change, and that quote wraps it up very, very concisely. I love that. So I like asking everyone I have on the show, as we look to the future of chambers of commerce. How do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Crystal Narr 33:44
So we actually have really started having conversations about what it looks like moving forward, and just like I said, embracing change, my board of directors in our retreat, preparing for 25 really took a lot of what we were the feedback that staff was providing them about lack of engagement, lack of attendance, and really took that to heart. And so we have initiated a lot of change for this year. We have always been a chamber that has had monthly chamber luncheons every single month, third Wednesday, and we have seen a really drop off in that. We think part of that is just strain on our members financially. We think part of that is strain on time commitment. And, you know, the financial part kind of plays into, you know, we’re seeing wages going up, and that that means that now our members are having to pay employees to attend a chamber luncheon, while also paying to attend a chamber luncheon. So we are just trying to be very mindful and meet our members where they’re at. So we’re cutting back on how many we’re having a year. So. Same thing with our networking events. We’re also trying to restructure them so that they are held at the times that work the best for our members. So again, embracing change, initiating some new things, like industry roundtables that don’t cost anything for people, but still give them a voice. Stepping up our game and our advocacy efforts to help our businesses in ways that they might not feel prepared to actually, you know, lead the charge themselves. So really, just changing the way that our chamber has functioned, and taking some baby steps to get us to where we need to be, to be progressive.

Brandon Burton 35:40
Yeah, I like that. I like the idea of looking forward like that, leaning forward into that and and really kind of punch, punching above your weight class, we’ll say absolutely like it. Well, Crystal, this has been fun having you on the podcast, and I appreciate the the insights and perspective you’ve shared. Wanted to give you a chance to share any contact information for listeners who may want to reach out and connect with you and maybe learn a little bit more about the approach you’ve taken with working with other nonprofits. Where would you point them? What’s the best way to connect with you?

Crystal Narr 36:13
Anybody can reach out to me at any point in time. My email is chamber@chillicothemo.com and our website is just www.chillicothemo.com as well. So I’m happy to chat with anybody, and hopefully I can even glean some information from them along the way.

Brandon Burton 36:35
That’s what it’s all about. So I’ll, I’ll get your information in our show notes for this episode to make a nice nice and easy to find you and connect with you. But again, thank you for being a little vulnerable and sharing some of these experiences you’ve had and working with other nonprofits. I know it can be sticky at times, but you guys have seemed to find a way that works, and I know it continues to be an evolution, but I appreciate you sharing some of these tips and strategies that are working for you.

Crystal Narr 37:03
I appreciate you asking me to be a part of the chamber chat podcast and look forward to listening to the many other ones so that I can continue my lifelong learning that I hope to always initiate in my chamber profession.

Brandon Burton 37:19
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