Category: Culture

Creating a Chamber Flywheel with Dave Moravec

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Brandon Burton (00:01.57)
Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat podcast. I’m your host, Brandon Burton, and it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community. Today’s guest is a dynamic leader and author.

Since 2020, Dave Moravec has served as a president of the Colerain Chamber of Commerce, bringing with him over four decades of experience in business ownership and leadership across diverse industries.

From owning a printing company to leading chambers in both Illinois and Ohio, and even working in educational technology, Dave’s career is a testament to versatility and vision. Under his leadership, the Colerain Chamber earned the prestigious title of Ohio’s Chamber of the Year for Small Chambers in 2021, reflecting his commitment to foster business growth, connection, and collaboration.

Dave is all about meaningful work and creating strategic opportunities for local businesses to thrive. Outside of his professional achievements, Dave is a published author and avid traveler and still hits the field for competitive baseball. His latest ventures include releasing Echoes Across the Tracks in 2024 and two more books in 2025.

Dave, I’m excited to have you with us today here on Chamber Chat podcast. I’d love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the Chamber Champions who are out there listening and to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little bit better.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (01:41.15)
appreciate that, Brandon. Again, after a long career in for-profit work, I landed myself in the Chamber of Commerce field, not really thinking that this was gonna be a late in life career shift, but it’s turned out really well, and I’m sure we’ll talk about that. Something somebody would not know about me would be that I was on the Jay Leno Tonight Show in 2011.

I have a bar trick where I can balance coins on my elbow and catch them in a snatch form. And they had a segment where they gave out a meal or no meal if you did your trick on stage, so on screen. So they flew me out to California, got to meet Jay, got lots of notoriety at that time, literally 15 seconds of fame.

Brandon Burton (02:23.212)
Okay.

Brandon Burton (02:37.542)
That’s awesome. So how many coins could you stack on your elbow to snatch in that action?

Dave Moravec – Colerain (02:44.362)
Well, not only did I stack them on my elbow, but I also was blindfolded while doing it. So I’ve logged to my LinkedIn page. If anybody is interested, there’s a blog post from back then blindfolded by Jay Leno. Ultimately, I caught 25 coins, 25 half dollars because the studio was so cold. My hand was freezing up. They have the hot lights on the stage.

Brandon Burton (02:51.093)
Okay.

Brandon Burton (03:13.517)
Yeah.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (03:13.822)
So they keep the foodie-o really cold. Well, your hand freezes up and so the producer said, we don’t care how many you catch, it’s just the fact that you’re getting blindfolded by Jay and you’re gonna catch some coins. It’s a silly thing. we just had some fun with it and I’ve been doing it since I was a kid.

Brandon Burton (03:35.215)
That’s awesome. I’m sure there’s a whole story on how you got onto the radar to get on the Tonight Show, but that’s a great fact and I love finding out these little tidbits about people. That’s awesome. Well, tell us a little bit more about the Colerain Chamber. Give us an idea of the size, staff, scope of work you guys are involved with, budget, to kind of set the stage for our discussion today.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (03:55.614)
Sure.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (03:59.624)
Yeah, our chamber’s only 11 years old and I came in five and a half years ago to take over as the first executive director, president, CEO. And we had a previous president that was part-time, had laid the foundation for the logo, the website, chamber master, all sorts of foundational pieces. And my role was to take it to the next level.

I started February 10th of 2020 just as COVID was about to happen. And we kind of threw out the 2020 plan and went a different direction. At the time we pared down our membership because people hadn’t come off of the roles that should have come off the roles. We determined there were about 150 active members at that time. We currently have about 275.

So we’ve not quite doubled in the five plus years that I’ve been here. We manage about a $250,000 budget and our community is 60,000 residents. So the second largest township in all of Ohio. myself, part-time marketing and events coordinator. She does some of the admin work. And then I have a part-time person who manages our green initiative.

We’ve got the largest waste facility in greater Cincinnati in our community and litter and recycling and composting is really important to us. So we’ve made an investment from a staff perspective to have a part-time person that does that. myself and two part-time people.

Brandon Burton (05:40.537)
Wow. Well, that definitely helps to get us that perspective. And it seems like there’s been a lot of chamber professionals who were hired in that first quarter of 2020, right before, you know, everything kind of fell apart. So you’re in good company with a lot of others who got thrown into the fire and had to learn, you know, with a lot of stress going on. we’ve…

Dave Moravec – Colerain (06:04.392)
Well, it worked. It worked actually in my favor because of my background in corporate work. You always have to be ready for a challenge. You have to be ready for a paradigm shift. And so when COVID was announced as, you know, closing down the state and it was March 17th, it actually was the day we moved physically to Ohio from Illinois as well. So I’m in a new community, a new situation.

And we just sat down and brainstormed what we could do, what would be allowable under the situation. And we just made it work. And it was just a natural fit. And I’ve told people for the last five years, it was the best decision I made.

Brandon Burton (06:48.064)
Yeah, you know, my family actually moved that same week too. And it gave us a lot of time to hang pictures and unpack boxes and all that with the, you know, being quarantined, but work goes on.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (06:57.33)
Yeah.

Brandon Burton (07:02.444)
But so you have another interesting fact about you that was shared in the the bio, but you’re an author. So Echoes Across the Tracks. Before we get into our topic for today, I wanted to have you tell us a little bit about Echoes Across the Tracks and how it came to be, where the idea came from and what you tap into as you as you write the series. I mean, there’s there’s three books now.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (07:20.67)
Yeah.

Brandon Burton (07:30.53)
But give us that high level synopsis of it and the idea for it.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (07:31.07)
rooms.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (07:34.825)
Yeah. Yeah. And Thanksgiving of 2023. So not quite two years ago. I just had an idea to sit down and tell a story. And the more I wrote, the more it turned into a book. I’ve done a lot of travel as most of us have. We’ve had crazy travel and I had a really crazy travel experience, planes, trains and automobiles type experience over the summer coming back from Colorado.

And so I started writing one, it was the Friday after Thanksgiving. And I just kept typing and typing and by the end of the weekend, I had 10 chapters done. And by the end of the week, the following week, I was done with the book with 17 chapters. Echoes Across the Tracks takes place on the Amtrak train from New Orleans to Chicago.

Main characters heading to the airport as much of us do, we get a flight cancellation notice and we have to react to it. I guess kind of like the chamber reaction in March of 2020. Something had to happen and my cab driver in the story suggests that the main character Charlie take the train instead. And that starts a 30 hour journey from New Orleans to Chicago on the Amtrak train.

The subtitle is Life Lessons Through Unexpected Connections, because you never know where you’re gonna meet somebody. And the train was a good vehicle to be able to talk about networking and meeting people in a professional way and looking others in the eye and shaking hands. The story is told from my perspective. Charlie is an aging business consultant who’s promoting a book in New Orleans. And the story…

takes place over that 30 hour period and it really is just that short a period that the story is told.

Brandon Burton (09:33.241)
So there’s even some chamber connection through the book. As I’ve started reading it, the main character, Charlie, had a profession as a chamber leader. So I love that connection and the tie-in and trying to make, I know if it was your intent, but I like the efforts in trying to make chambers of commerce more mainstream and more front of mind, if we can, to the average person in the community.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (10:01.256)
Yeah, absolutely. We become ambassadors and I’m sure we’ll talk about it as we go through the conversation here, Brandon, but I feel like we can all be ambassadors for Chamber of Commerce, just like we are for a restaurant or for a hotel or for a particular business. And so the last two pages of the book, I actually devote to describing what I call the Chamber of Commerce.

value proposition. And I spell it out really simple in four paragraphs. And somebody who picks up the book, who’s a business professional, may have not thought about Chamber of Commerce as a way to network or to provide marketing support for their business, to get involved in their community or look for ways to compete with larger businesses, you know, in their market space. And so there’s a purpose for, you know, for putting that

piece in at the end. I did so in the sequel that I just recently produced as well. I kept the exact same value proposition in the back of the book to keep it consistent. But Charlie, the main character, has to head back to New Orleans for reasons that I won’t share here because we don’t have enough time. yeah, I don’t want to do that. But the second story is

Brandon Burton (11:20.824)
Can’t spoil the story either, so.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (11:28.242)
think just as interesting and compelling, but doesn’t focus on networking, focuses on customer service. And customer service today in many industries has been taken down a notch because of a variety of different things that business owners aren’t really thinking about. And so I felt that it was important to do so and wrote that into the second book.

Brandon Burton (11:52.183)
Yeah, that’s great. I’ve been enjoying it and I would encourage anybody else listening to check it out. Great story and you’ve got a great creative mind to put it together.

So maybe as a little bit of a segue in the book that goes across the tracks, the main character Charlie, he’s learning and sharing business practices that he’s learned throughout his career and in a large way, that’s what the podcast is for, having different chamber leaders on and talking about business lessons and things that they’ve learned through their career. So today we have Dave on the show to talk about creating a

Dave Moravec – Colerain (12:05.544)
Thank you, Brenda.

Brandon Burton (12:35.472)
chamber flywheel. And it’s a term that I’ve heard before, but I haven’t heard in the term of chambers using a flywheel or creating a flywheel at their chamber. So we’ll dive into that and what all that means as soon as I get back from this quick break.

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All right, Dave, we’re back. As I mentioned before the break, we’re talking about creating a chamber flywheel today.

What does that term mean to you? Where did this come from and how have you guys worked to implement this at the Colerain Chamber?

Dave Moravec – Colerain (13:09.032)
Sure, we actually have two flywheels. The concept is easy to find if you go to Jim Collins’ book, Good to Great. It’s got a red cover and it has a ring to it. Just like my wife, her name is Patty. So we go by Dave and Patty from Cincinnati. Well, you can find the flywheel in Good to Great in chapter eight. And if you find Jim Collins’ purpose behind it,

He talks about the four to six things that make a business go faster or grow faster or to become stronger But you have to sit down and think about those things and once you come up with those four to six unique Ideas processes Whatever that looks like for your organization and in our case the Chamber of Commerce Then you have to put them in order

and do them in the proper order. So as an example, we might invite people to the chamber and do that really well. And we might do marketing really well. But if we do them in backwards order, we may not get the same result. And so we as a Chamber of Commerce in 2020, I took the Board of Directors through this flywheel process because I didn’t know the community. I was new here.

certainly knew the process of creating a flywheel and using it, but I wasn’t sure what that meant for our Chamber of Commerce. So we did that, we created that flywheel, and then I incorporated a second flywheel. And that’s really what I’ve been teaching on for the last five years, Brandon, to other Chamber leaders. It really has three components. One at the top, where you’re attracting businesses to your Chamber of Commerce.

And if you’re attractive to those chambers of, to the businesses in your community, meaning if you’ve got an outward way about you, your marketing, et cetera, is strong, you’re gonna be attractive and attract others. Well, once you do, you bring them to an event or you show them the value proposition of being involved in a chamber of commerce, you have to engage them. So the second component is engagement.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (15:29.738)
That means coming out to an event, talking to other people, doing something besides sitting in your office and going, well, yeah, maybe I’ll send a check to the Chamber of Commerce. They got to get up and do something. So you have to find a way to engage them. And once you do, hopefully the enthusiasm of your Chamber of Commerce is going to be so compelling that they’re going to become a member or in our case, we use the word investor. So we’re investing in our community. We’re investing in our Chamber of Commerce. We’re investing

in our business community. And once they do and they see that that’s an investment, not a spend, at the end of the month when the monthly dues come around for your chamber, or if you’re on a quarterly or as we are in an annual basis, you’re not thinking that the business isn’t thinking about cutting a check to cover expenses. They’re doing it because they’re investing in the community. And if they are,

and they’re so enthusiastic. The third component is delight. They’re so delighted in what is being offered by the Chamber of Commerce and what you’re doing and what you’re giving back to the community. They’re so delighted, they’re gonna come full circle and attract others that you don’t know. These might be neighbors, these might be business associates, they could be outside of your geography, but see the value of being involved in your community because you have a series of

customers in the community that would be a fit or the business connections or even just the friendships that are developed might be attractive enough that, there you go. There’s the graphic. That’s the perfect graphic. So attract at the top, engage as you come around the lower right-hand corner of the flywheel to the point of delight. And once you’re delighted, you become an ambassador.

just like you would on your fine dining restaurant that you make a suggestion, hey, you got to go to such and such a restaurant when you’re in our community. You’re so delighted you become an ambassador. Many chambers of commerce have ambassador groups. They have a small group of eight or 10 individuals who are charged with wearing a badge on their shirt or their jacket that says ambassador.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (17:52.091)
I want our chamber members to all be ambassadors, because if they’re all working together, that flywheel spins faster and faster and faster than if we just have a handful. And that’s the concept that I’ve been teaching Brandon and that we’ve been promoting as a chamber of commerce for the last five years.

Brandon Burton (18:12.29)
But as you delight the people, it closes that wheel where the delight goes back to attract and just it starts that that whole cycle over again with those new people that are being introduced to what the chamber has to offer.

And when I think of a flywheel, think of it’s a way of applying leverage really. I mean, you have a goal and you’re trying to get there either quicker or more efficiently and the leverage that can be provided as you shared with the attract, engage and delight is going to kind of have that focus all around the growth and applies that leverage to the growth.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (18:50.256)
Absolutely. And there’s two significant additional components to this messaging. First off is that in traditional chambers of commerce, there’s a membership director, somebody who’s going out into the community and I’m just going to use air quotes, selling memberships to the chamber of commerce. And somebody can be sold on the idea of being involved in the chamber of commerce, but if they’re not engaged for the right reason, they’re not going to necessarily be delighted. And so when the

time for their reinvestment comes up, it’s a membership, just like a gym membership. I didn’t really use it, I didn’t really see any value to it, so no, I’m not gonna do that again. So we don’t do that. I don’t go door to door, nor does my team go door to door saying, hey, do wanna be a part of the Chamber of Commerce? We let the flywheel just naturally take place. And so the referrals that come in, or the people that are attracted around the

the side of the wheel by those that are delighted are far more interested in being involved, much like a fraternity or a sorority would be. You’re inviting them and they feel welcome. That’s different than selling them on a membership. Second thing is that it eliminates a sales funnel. A lot of businesses look at a sales funnel and they go, let’s get as many people in the top part of the funnel as we can. And then we’ll do something in the middle.

to try to get them out at the bottom as a new member or as a client. Well, once you get them, so to speak, you gotta go do something else with them. And getting them doesn’t sound like it’s very attractive. I see the look on your face. You don’t sound very sold on that idea, Brandon.

Brandon Burton (20:38.446)
Well, and I’ve heard different business owners, different from a wide array of different types of businesses. But if when they have that focus of the sales funnel, they always have to keep upping the ante of what’s that next level that we can sell? What’s that next? And then you get into the, especially with online business, you see a lot of this where they have their high ticket items. It’s a $20,000 mastermind membership or something.

And something ridiculous that only, you know, one or 2 % of anybody who enters that funnel is going to get there. But as long as they spend money, they keep finding what’s that next level that we can keep extracting money out of them is what it ends up being rather than providing that value and showing them that there’s a reason that you’re here and this is what we’re doing for you and keeping that going as a circle. So yes, that’s resonating with me very well.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (21:37.331)
Yeah, and what ultimately happens is, again, couple things that are hugely beneficial. Number one, your rate of retention is significantly higher because they see it as an investment and a continuation of a relationship. You also decrease the amount of chasing that you’re doing to phone calls. Hey, are you interested in joining the change? Hey, did you get my email?

Hey, you know, it sounds kind of cheesy, but it’s far more professional if you’re inviting a friend to a business networking event or to a women’s luncheon or to, you know, to a large fundraiser or awards dinner. If you’re inviting them as opposed to selling them on the idea of, you know, you hear the difference there, Brandon? Yeah.

Brandon Burton (22:32.706)
Yeah, yeah, it’s selling versus inviting. Like, what do you want to be involved with, right?

Dave Moravec – Colerain (22:38.472)
Yeah, exactly. And again, it’s something that we’ve actually been tracking is the number one reason, and this goes back to the good to great flywheel. Among the first things we realized was that each chamber member has a different reason for being involved in a chamber of commerce. So somebody who comes for our ancillary benefits and insurance programs or workers comp may not be interested in networking. And somebody who’s interested in networking

may not be interested in giving their time back to the community and engaging with nonprofits or becoming a board member. Each has a different reason for being involved. So we actually track that in our CRM and in Chambermaster. And the second part of our flywheel is actually engaging them and making sure that that component is fulfilled. So if we’re not providing enough networking opportunities for those that are

interested in networking, they’re going to naturally go away. If we’re not providing enough marketing opportunities to sponsor and get people’s logos out in front of the community, they’re not going to see the Chamber of Commerce as having value. So we make sure that we’ve not just identified what it is, but fulfilled the promise that we’ve made to them and we’re going to create that value.

when we add value to it through innovation and through relationship building, all of a sudden there’s more value associated with that membership or that investment. And that value adds to the flywheel. And the last component of our flywheel is actually being able to tell that story through marketing. Because if we’re not attracting others by telling that story of, hey, you can be involved in this networking thing and

We had a chamber member not too long ago, sold her first million dollar account. Well, being able to tell that story to other people and that she could share that on our sales summit, all of a sudden people go, wow, hey, what can I learn from this person? And it just attracts more attention and more people to us.

Brandon Burton (24:58.862)
Yeah. So one thing that comes to mind is with the flywheel and trying to get people engaged. the attract and then engage. I’ve heard it said before that trying to find a quick win for somebody, you somebody comes into the organization, they’re testing out a business, whatever it is. What can you do to provide a quick win for that individual to where they immediately see that there’s value in them being there?

and participating. So as you guys have implemented this and practiced this flywheel concept, have you been able to identify ways to create a quick win? maybe within the first three to six months, maybe six months might even be too long, but maybe within the first three months to be able to provide a quick win for these investors that come in and join the chamber and are engaging or trying to engage.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (25:29.563)
Yeah.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (25:57.683)
Yeah, I’m gonna answer it two ways. First is the traditional way. People are looking for ROI, right? They’re looking for that quick win from a return on investment. They’ve spent $500 on their membership and they need to get $500 back in value, so to speak. And that’s what you’re speaking about from a traditional perspective. That depends on the type of business that you have. If you’re a roofer,

and you get introduced to 10 people in the community or 20 businesses and none of them need a roof, you’re not gonna see a quick return on investment. I just don’t need a roof right now. So we actually talk about three-year investment in the chamber. Our minimum level is $340, so times three, that’s $1,020, just rounded to $1,000.

Brandon Burton (26:36.385)
Right.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (26:52.926)
If you’re not willing to invest $1,000 in your business over a three-year period as a small business, when there are so many other more expensive options, then we actually take it off the table. We suggest that you not get involved and not invest your money at this point in time. And people have actually looked at me and said, what? Well, no, no, no, I want to join the chamber.

I didn’t mean that. And so we’re talking about it as an investment. The second thing is that many chambers of commerce miss an opportunity by welcoming people before they actually join. So we actually encourage people to take a test drive, invite them to multiple events, not turn them away when they come to a second or third event and go, hey,

You gotta pay up if you’re gonna attend our event. No, not that way at all. So our quick wins are engaging them with the right people at the right time and the right place. And if you do that, all of a sudden they feel, yeah, I’m wanted. Nobody wants an email directly to them after an event that they came to and says, thank you for coming to our event. We hope you’ll attend another event.

Brandon Burton (28:16.854)
Yeah

Dave Moravec – Colerain (28:18.814)
Nobody wants that. But if their film number is on their thing, a simple text that said, hey, this is Dave. Thanks for coming to our thing last night. Appreciate it if we can help in any way, give us a holler. That simple. And people go, that’s a person. That’s somebody who’s actually thinking about me. And lastly, this is a good friend of mine, Bob Berg. In fact, I talked to Bob this morning.

He’s written a book called The Go Giver. There are a series of 10 questions that he has that you can ask somebody during your engagement when you’re meeting somebody at a networking event. But the number one question he poses is what would be the ideal referral for your business? And all of a sudden people are now asking themselves,

He’s not telling me about his business. He’s asking me about mine. And so now they can feel engaged by saying, well, a commercial, we’re do 90 % of our work is commercial roofing. And we look for businesses that before they’re actually needing a roof because oftentimes if the roof isn’t repaired properly or taken care of, it leads to damage on the inside of the building. I’m just using an example here.

I go, I’ve got a chamber member who I can introduce you to now, who may be in that situation, maybe not, but all of a sudden they go, well, he’s interested in me because he made that introduction before it was even necessary. At our networking events, people don’t go around the room and tell themselves about, our members don’t stand around and tell about their business. We actually engage the new,

Brandon Burton (30:00.035)
Yeah.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (30:13.766)
attendees to have them tell their story and have them be more attractive before they leave the room. So somebody will come up and say, you got a dog sitting business or you’ve got a craft brewery. We’d love to know more about that. But if they don’t know it because they’re standing in the corner of the room by themselves, shame on us for not allowing that.

Brandon Burton (30:41.9)
Right. Yeah, I think a lot of times these quick wins, don’t need to be that, you know, complete ROI on that, you know, that return of the investment upfront, but being able to get them a feel and a kind of light the path of this is how you will get that return on your investment, you know, by making these connections, by getting to know these people, by getting involved, you know, in a committee of some sort or helping to further the chamber’s mission, you know, in this way.

So there’s, think there’s a variety of different ways that they can feel like there’s a quick win because going back to your, your comment about just being genuine and asking about their business and learning about them, they’re going to realize, okay, Dave’s working for me too. So that’s a, that’s great piece of advice.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (31:31.122)
We also use the individuals in the room to help make that happen. So if there’s somebody that’s new in the room, I might introduce them to somebody who’s just joined the chamber in the last three months and say, hey, Bob, meet Sue. Sue can tell you what her first experiences were better than I can. And then exit stage left.

Brandon Burton (31:53.209)
Yeah.

And I guess, you know, having your whole staff just being aware of anybody who might be new as well. think that would be the worst thing is somebody comes and nobody talks to them. No chamber staff, nobody even addresses them. Chances of them coming back and engaging and getting onto that flywheel is not going to happen. So, very good. Well, Dave, as we start to wrap things up, I wanted to ask for those listening who are trying

to take their chamber up to the next level, what kind of tip or action item might you suggest with them in trying to accomplish that goal?

Dave Moravec – Colerain (32:34.106)
Well, as I mentioned earlier, a funnel of prospective members and chasing them down is for me the least attractive way to grow your Chamber of Commerce. My understanding, and this is a statistic that I was told and it’s to a certain degree proved to be true, is that if a Chamber member joins and in the first year then

drops their chamber membership, just like a gym membership on January 1st and February 1st, go, I’m not going to do that. My understanding in the chamber world is that it’s five years, five years before they’ll consider joining the chamber again. And if that’s the case, then I can call on them every day for the next five years and say, hey, you want to come back? And they would say, no, had a bad experience.

So we want to have that first experience to be strong so that year over year over year, you create a long-term value. And the value add that I will share and the bonus for me in the long-term value proposition of for-profit businesses is that if somebody is happy with membership initially, eventually they’ll sponsor an event. Eventually they’ll become a sustaining sponsor.

Eventually, they’ll become a board member. Eventually, they’ll become a legacy provider to your chamber of commerce. But if you haven’t done the legwork on the front side to build the relationship, none of those things will happen in the proper order. And again, I think the lessons I’ve learned in the SaaS world, selling software solutions, is that if somebody is really attracted to what you’re offering,

The other things that you offer will just naturally happen. You don’t have to upsell. You don’t have to tag them for the, it’ll just naturally happen. We had five sustaining members when I came in. At this point, we’re approaching 30 sustaining sponsors that invest a significantly higher amount than just dues. And that’s because of relationship building and them seeing value in their logo being

Dave Moravec – Colerain (34:59.696)
everywhere and anywhere through the chamber. So that’s my tip for the day, Brandon.

Brandon Burton (35:05.728)
I like that. But, and to your point where somebody drops their membership, it may take up to five years or more for them to consider rejoining. The other side of that coin is if somebody, if you can, you know, provide that ROI, show the value of the chamber, get them in the flywheel. And I think the stat is three years. If you get them in for three years, then the chance of them being life members, like for the life of their business, drastically

increases to like 80 or 90 percent if you can get past that third year hurdle. I think implementing a flywheel is a perfect way of being able to get past that point and be able to have them be ambassadors for you and be promoting the chamber everywhere they go.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (35:53.151)
I would agree with that. And one other point is that negative talk comes from people that you’re gonna tell a negative story 10 times more than you’re gonna tell a positive story. And if you’ve had a negative experience, you’re not attracting others that you know. And somebody says, hey, do you wanna join, or should I join the Chamber of Commerce? Nah, I didn’t really have a very good experience. Well, you wanna have those ambassadors that you were creating on the delight side.

that are telling your story over and over and over again. And what we’re seeing is that those that provide referrals provide multiple referrals. So they’re telling the story far more times than they would tell otherwise.

Brandon Burton (36:34.072)
Yeah, it’s great marketing. I love it. Right. Yeah.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (36:37.212)
And there’s no cost to it. We can talk about that for another day, but there’s no cost associated with it either. You just have to be genuine.

Brandon Burton (36:46.924)
That’s right. Well, Dave, as we look to the future of Chambers of Commerce, I always like to ask, how do you see the future of Chambers and their purpose going forward?

Dave Moravec – Colerain (36:58.578)
Yeah, I think you’ve had Matt Appenzeller on your show and I’ve gotten to know Matt. Okay, you are great. Matt is awesome. And he and I subscribe to the same mindset from this perspective. And what I’ve seen in talking to and I don’t wanna say evaluating, because I’m not an evaluator. I don’t put one here and one there. But as I look at the future of Chambers of Commerce, I think the challenges if…

Brandon Burton (37:02.648)
Coming up, yeah, he’s coming up, yep.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (37:26.738)
you’re not running the Chamber of Commerce like a true business, you’re putting your Chamber of Commerce at risk. And by that I mean if your expenses are more than your revenue, you’re eventually gonna run out of reserve. If you aren’t planning for tomorrow the way a for-profit business does, when they know that the shelf life of their laptops is gonna be five years, five years from now they’ve gotta have the money available to replace those laptops.

And I think those kinds of concepts are missed oftentimes, number one, because the chamber leader doesn’t know any better. They haven’t been mentored or shown that those things are important. But secondarily, they have boards of directors that close their eyes and ears to the fact that their for-profit businesses have to survive that way and forget that their staff, the people that are running the Chamber of Commerce,

have to be that way. If you’re not increasing your dues, you know, over a period of time, eventually it’s going to come up and catch up with you. And I think that that’s the risk that all of us have is not treating the business, treating the Chamber of Commerce as a business and looking at it as a nonprofit.

Brandon Burton (38:47.608)
Yeah, I think that’s a great piece of advice as well. Not too different from running your household finances. You take those lessons of having healthy balance sheets. Well, Dave, I wanted to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for listeners who may want to reach out and connect with you and learn more about your books or about the flywheel or anything we talked about today. Where would you point them and what would be the best way for them to reach out and connect?

Dave Moravec – Colerain (38:56.734)
Absolutely.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (39:17.298)
Well, I have put in my resignation for the Colerain Chamber of Commerce. So you can reach me for a period of time at president@colerainchamber.org. But you can otherwise find me at DD, Dusty Dave is my nickname, moravec, M-O-R-A-V-E-C-5@gmail.com (ddmoravec5@gmail.com). My phone number 309-838-1947 will get me 24 seven. And I will pick up the phone 24 seven.

Brandon Burton (39:52.679)
There you go. And the books, Amazon, anywhere in particular you’d point them?

Dave Moravec – Colerain (39:57.82)
Yeah. Yeah. You can find them at salesmanagerforrent.com on our media site. Amazon will have them. Look up Echoes and Moravec and I’m the only guy that M-O-R-A-V-E-C with Echoes associated with it. If you like the books, recommend them to others. Write reviews. First time and new authors.

That’s their biggest challenge is having people to review them so that others see them and are attracted to it. So yes, I appreciate that. And yeah, thanks for the plug. I appreciate that.

Brandon Burton (40:37.842)
Absolutely, you bet. It’s my pleasure. But it’s been fun having you on the podcast today. I appreciate you spending your time with us and your experiences and lessons that you’ve learned at leading the Colerain Chamber and just from your business experiences through your career as well. So thank you.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (40:55.432)
Great to be here.

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Retention Strategies with Tonia Stephenson

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Brandon Burton (00:00.92)
Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat podcast. I’m your host, Brandon Burton, and it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community. Today’s guest is a powerful, today’s guest is a powerhouse community leader and economic development, Tanya Stevenson. Since 2018, Tonia has been at the helm of the Burke County Chamber of Commerce as President and CEO where she’s dedicated herself to strengthening businesses and forging meaningful community connections. Her deep roots and chamber work span back to her early career at the High Point and Lorenburg, Scotland County chambers. But Tonia’s commitment to service doesn’t stop there. She’s spent six impactful years as executive director of the Salvation Army Boys and Girls Club in High Point, revitalizing facilities and expanding youth programs and securing stronger financial future for the organization.

Tonia holds a double major in business administration and home furnishings marketing from High Point University. She’s a graduate from the US Chambers Leadership Institute and earned the prestigious CCE designation in 2014. Her leadership has earned accolades like businesswoman of the year and 40 leaders under 40 and multiple chamber honors.

She’s a dedicated board member and passionate community advocate. And when she’s not leading or serving, you may find her hiking a trail or cross stitching a new design or enjoying a weekend getaway with her husband, David. Tonia, we’re excited to have you with us today here on Chamber Chat podcast. I’d love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the Chamber Champions who are out there listening and share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better.

Tonia Stephenson (01:50.776)
Oh, if I share too much about myself, people might think I’m crazy and shouldn’t keep listening. So, yeah, just take that out. You know, when I think about things that are interesting about myself, it really goes back to my personal life and people find this interesting and I found it interesting. Back a long time ago, we won’t tell how many years because I can’t tell anybody I’m 29 if I tell my years.

Brandon Burton (01:55.726)
We can edit, so no.

Tonia Stephenson (02:20.403)
My husband and I got married at the North Carolina Zoo Logical Park. It’s the largest zoo in the world at this point. and people say, you got married at the zoo? it’s like, I’m the only official wedding ever to be held at the zoo. There’s a lot of people have gone out to the zoo and they’ve taken some witnesses and a preacher and gotten married in front of the whatever animals they wanted to. And, but we actually rented the zoo and, got married, had our official.

Big win, 350 guests. We were followed by the national press. We had cameras in our face through the process because all of our local news followed us. And then by the time that we actually got married, it made the national press. So it was a big deal. And everybody, you know, we laugh and joke, and I say this in front of my husband. You people say, why’d you get married to the zoo? And the zoo was a very big part of our courting years.

And we wanted to get married outside and wanted to find a beautiful place. And back then wedding venues were not a dime a dozen like they are now. And I called the zoo and said, hey, I want to get married out here. And they said, you know what? We’d love to do that. That’d be a great marketing tool for us. So we tried it. And the marketing team said, we’ll never again do this. So all these years later, we are the only one that has ever done that. But we have great experiences and beautiful pictures.

Brandon Burton (03:35.084)
Yeah, you broke it.

Tonia Stephenson (03:45.208)
It’s just a great thing to look back on. so, oh, what I was gonna say is I got married there too because all my in-laws were already there. I didn’t have to invite them. So they were in the cages, you know, but they were all there. My husband and I joke about that. And he says that we have good time with it, but it was really a great experience. And I think that says a little bit about me is I love the outdoors. I love animals.

Brandon Burton (03:55.406)
Were they in the cages?

Tonia Stephenson (04:14.517)
I love doing things different. I don’t like to do things like everybody else does it. And so that’s little bit about me.

Brandon Burton (04:24.034)
There you go. That’s cool. I was going to ask why the zoo and all that, but you covered it pretty well. So I’m glad the in-laws were able to be there. That’s important. That’s great.

Tonia Stephenson (04:33.525)
They were all there. Yeah. It was great. And it turned out to be a beautiful day. It was a hot day in June, but it was great. The worst part was having the, poor little best man, the channel 12’s cameras was so close into his face. I was like, bless his heart. He can’t even move without the cameras being right there.

Brandon Burton (04:52.974)
Well, tell us a little bit about the the Burke County Chamber to kind of set the stage for our discussion today. Help give us an idea of the size, staff, scope of work, budget, things like that so we know what kind of chamber you’re coming from.

Tonia Stephenson (05:08.193)
Well, I consider us somewhat of a medium sized chamber. We have 640 members somewhere around there. People in the chamber world, know that changes on a daily basis. And we’ve grown it quite a bit. Since the seven years I’ve been here, we were at 450 seven years ago. So we’ve grown quite a bit through the years and very proud of that. We are located in the foothills of North Carolina.

Brandon Burton (05:18.839)
Right?

Tonia Stephenson (05:35.954)
A lot of people know Hickory and Asheville and we’re somewhat in the center of that and our northwest of Charlotte and our east of Asheville. So great location, big cities around us, but we’re still a small town and we’ve got some great amenities here. Just a great place to live and work. We do serve the full county and it is a big county. It’s amazing. It probably would take two hours to get from one end of the county to the other.

Part of our county is up high elevations and then part of it is east and lower elevations. So we’ve got some mountains here. We have four full-time employees on staff and one contract employee. Our budget’s about a half a million dollars. And it’s just, we continue to grow and we’re excited to be able to serve our community.

Brandon Burton (06:31.17)
Very good. And are you guys, are you strictly chamber? Are you tourism, economic development, strictly chamber? Okay.

Tonia Stephenson (06:35.275)
We are strictly chamber, which I like being that way. know a lot, exactly. I know a lot of chambers have to do with economic development or tourism, but I’m thankful that we can just focus on our members and not have to try to juggle all those balls. Although I admire the people that do.

Brandon Burton (06:40.59)
It allows you to focus on that mission, yeah.

Brandon Burton (07:00.716)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, that definitely. Yeah, yeah, that definitely does help set the stage and the Carolinas are such a beautiful part of the country. So it’s no wonder you’re able to have a thriving chamber there because people want to be there so.

Tonia Stephenson (07:03.287)
but I have great partners.

Tonia Stephenson (07:18.985)
number one in business, three out of the last four years. So we’re very thankful for that.

Brandon Burton (07:27.118)
Well, our topic for conversation today, we’re going to focus most of our discussion around retention. And that’s a topic that every chamber out there should be paying attention to and monitoring, you know, as kind of one of those KPIs, you know, to see how your chambers performing, getting that feedback from your membership, your investors, you know, what is that retention looking like? So we’ll dive in deep on this as soon as we get back from this quick break.

All right, Tonia, we’re back, as I mentioned. So before the break, we’re diving in today on the topic of retention. I’m sure you have a unique approach. Every chamber looks at different metrics a little differently. But as you look at retention, what is it that you guys really hone in on? And what’s your approach that makes you maybe stand out as a chamber, highlight your wins, and help members stick around for the long term?

Tonia Stephenson (08:25.793)
Yeah, you know, a lot of it, I don’t know if it’s unique. I think it’s, for me, it’s spending the time with our members and spending one-on-one time and making sure our members feel like they are as important as any other member. And that’s real important to me. I know in the chamber world, I’ve heard a lot of my colleagues talk about how they spend a lot of time with their big fish. And I’ve heard, I’ve sat through so many…

seminars, webinars, trainings on how important it is for us to spend time with the big fish. And I know a lot of people believe that. I do, I do make sure that they feel appreciated. But for me in this chamber and in any chamber that I’ve led, it’s always been about every member is important and every member needs to feel like they are a big fish to us. And so we spend a lot of one-on-one time and

And I sometimes it doesn’t make sense in the budget world, but at the same time in the world of what our members say about us and how they’re talking about us in the community makes a big difference. And so there’s a lot of things that we take time to do that some of you listening may say, she has lost her mind, but maybe I have. It has worked for us and it takes, it does. So here I am.

Brandon Burton (09:44.066)
That’s okay. It takes a special person to lead a chamber. yeah.

Tonia Stephenson (09:50.32)
And our retention rates have really shown it over the years and we’ve had extremely great retention. So some of the process that we go through is when a member joins, the day that they join or the day after they get a thank you, a handwritten thank you note sent from me and welcoming them to the chamber family and being a part of what we do and you you have a team of four now that you didn’t have before.

our membership person and our director of operations person, they personally meet with every new member and sit down with them and find out about their company and what they’re doing and where they need help and where they’re struggling. And we always ask the question, what keeps you up at night? Because we know that what keeps them up at night is what we can do for them and hopefully help them in those ways. Our membership person sends a welcome email and in that welcome email, it explains all the tools that

the digital tools that they have that they can sign on into our member portal and that they can put all the information in there if they have any problems. She sits down with them and like walks them through it. There’s a welcome post on all of our social media that goes up within the few days that they have joined and that member post tells about their company. It thanks them for being a part of the community.

It has their logo in there. It has a link to their website and of course, tagging them on that site as well. So then when it comes to three months that they’ve been a member, our membership person calls them and checks in on them, sees what’s going on, how are things going. At six months, our board member calls them and checks on them and see how they’re doing and what we can do for them. And then at nine months, they get another call.

and just checking in. When they renew, they always get posts out on our social media so that they can know that not just them joining means a lot, but them sticking with us means a lot as well, and that we want to continue to give them the promotions that they have. Promotions is really big for us. Most of our members are small businesses that need that promotion.

Tonia Stephenson (12:10.647)
A lot of them, can’t afford big ads and radio. They can’t afford big ads on TV. We don’t have local TV here, so that’s not even an option for our folks. So promotions is big. we do a lot of promotions through, one thing we’re doing today is Friday. And so T-shirt Friday is something we do and we promote our members. So today we’ll spend our entire, most of our entire day out going and talking to our members.

The t-shirt we have on is one of our members and that member gets constant promotions throughout the day So everywhere we go we’re taking that person with us and the member will get anywhere from usually about 20 20 posts today on that on that one member and then of course there that’ll be 20 members that will get Various shout outs throughout the day and promoting whatever’s going on. We always try to be

aware of events that are coming up. So, you know, it might be that we’ll go to somewhere and say, hey, don’t forget they’re having this big sale this weekend, come out and shop or the festival’s happening this weekend, come out and see them at the festival. So we’re hitting as many people as we can with that, which people love that. And now every time I go into the bank on Fridays, they want their picture taken because they know that that’s something we do. And I was like, you know, I can’t get y’all every Friday.

Brandon Burton (13:35.522)
and it’ll get shared. They’re working the system, they know.

Tonia Stephenson (13:38.454)
But the bankers love it. They’re working, yeah, that’s right. And so that’s something we have a lot of fun with. And it does take a lot of time, but our members love it and they know that they’re being cared for and that they’re being promoted. And a lot of them have said, hey, I’ve gotten business. I’ve gotten a lot of business from that little thing. We feel like it’s a little thing for them, it’s big.

In addition to that, quarterly we actually get all of our ambassadors together and we get on a trolley and we go out and visit about 16 members and one day we take them gifts. We call it Surprise Patrol. And so we get out and we go into a business and we say, surprise, we’re all here. we, you usually 10, 15 people showing up to your business on a trolley is sort of shocking. And all the ambassadors will bring a gift from their business to that member.

and it’s all about saying thank you for your membership and we appreciate you. And we’re not asking for any on any of these things. We’re not asking for money. We’re not asking to support anything. We’re not reminding them that they owe dues or anything. It’s all about, we appreciate your membership and appreciate you and wanna thank you. And then of course, on Surprise Patrol, they get gifts as well. So that’s always a lot of fun days and all of.

Brandon Burton (14:59.79)
So about how many members are you guys able to visit on one of those surprise patrol visits? Wow.

Tonia Stephenson (15:04.567)
We get about 16 in a day. So we hit quite a bit and we’re promoting our ambassador members as well. So we got the 16 members that we’re visiting, but then there’s 10, 15 members who are ambassadors, who their businesses are getting promoted as well. So 30, 35 businesses are getting promoted in that day. And it’s just a fun day and a great time to…

show appreciation and remind people that we’re here and we’re supporting them and helping them any way we can. It’s always interesting because after every Surprise Patrol, I have members say, hey, how do I get on that list? And I was like, well, we’ll put you on the list for the next time. So it’s a lot of fun. Once a year, our ambassadors and our board and the staff all spend a week delivering our new directories.

We call that operation. Thank you. It’s it’s a program that’s been around for a long time in chambers, but it kind of went away. I’ve always had worked in operation. Thank you just because I think it’s so important. So we we have some type of gift that we give. It’s a small gift and it’s usually a got a corny saying on it. Something like this last year we gave payday payday candy bars out and it said every day is a payday with you as a member of the chamber so.

It’s cute and corny, but people love it. They love seeing us come because again, we’re not there asking for anything. We’re just there to say hello, say thank you. We take pictures throughout the day, post them on our website. mean, post them on all our social media sites. So they’re continually getting thanked and they’re continually getting promoted through these things. And so they’re all real important to us.

And then in addition, you know, we do all those calls that the staff does and then the board does at six months, but our ambassadors are making personal phone calls to our members as well. So the ambassadors are making five to 10 phone calls a month on our members just to say, hey, you know, is there anything we can do? Check in on you. What’s going on with you? What can we do? And so that’s really helpful because a lot of times our ambassadors learn things about our members that we don’t know and that

Tonia Stephenson (17:22.827)
gives us an opportunity to know and it’s that gives us 25 more people out there calling on members and checking in on them that we can’t, you people can’t get to all of them. And so they really helpful with that. And then there’s little things that we will remember and do that. I don’t think that is normal in the world of of anywhere. But for me, you know, I look at them, our members as customers, you know, we.

If I hear that there’s gonna be a ball game, I tell you make a note and I’ll call and say, hey, did little Johnny win his ball game? And that means a lot to them. Or I’ll shoot a note and say, hey, I was thinking about you. We do a lot of notes about testing, if we got some kind of medical issue, we have birthdays listed and we send personal birthday cards, handwritten notes, we send sympathy cards.

We spend a lot of time on these types of things and some people might say, well, that’s just a waste of time in the business world, but it is not waste of time. I’ve had people that, like I have one gentleman who said something about his, he had knee replacement recent, I mean, he had knee replacement a few years ago, but recently he said, you know, that was the sweetest card I got from y’all. And he’s like, it was the best one I got from, you know, it was from y’all.

Brandon Burton (18:41.474)
Wow.

Tonia Stephenson (18:42.057)
And he’s like, who would have thought that my chamber membership would have gotten me thoughts during my surgery? And so we really try to watch out for those little things. And we watch social media closely to see that they’re posting, that they’ve got issues or concerns. Then we reach out and let them know that we’re there to help them and support them through that, throughout whatever that they’re going through, or to celebrate with them when it’s good stuff.

and they remember that we remember those types of things.

Brandon Burton (19:12.686)
Yeah. So with these, uh, with the birthday cards and sympathy cards, I can see how that could get, you know, a little arduous, you know, to try to get all these, uh, cards out. So how do you, how do you manage that? Is it, are you focusing on the primary rep for each business or how deep do you go with, you know, if they’ve got three or four contacts as a, with their membership, I don’t, how do you kind of filter who or how you’re able to send, um,

those kind of cards too.

Tonia Stephenson (19:43.728)
We really don’t filter. Yeah, we really don’t filter. If we know it, we send it. And if they’re a member, we don’t really filter. yes, takes some time, but it’s not overwhelming amount of time. And it takes five minutes to fill out a card and stick it in the mail.

I usually fill it out first and sign it from your Burke County Chamber family and then write a little personal note for me. then everybody passes around, they sign a little note and off it goes. it brings return on investment of 10 minutes of time maybe and 60 cents stamp or however much they are now.

Brandon Burton (20:38.86)
Yeah, by the time this comes out, the stamps will be more.

Tonia Stephenson (20:39.447)
$4 car, mean, it’s really…

Well, that’s true. The stamps go up every day, it really has. you know, and it might seem like it’s arduous, but it hasn’t been. It hasn’t been. It could get that way. don’t know. But, you we just try to keep up with the best we can. And when we hear things that we miss, it’s like, whoa, we’re so sorry that we didn’t know that. And people, nobody’s ever fought at us for it or anything. So, so no, there’s not really any filter on it. If we know it and

we can do something to at least acknowledge and know that people will, for people to know that we care that we do that.

Brandon Burton (21:18.978)
Yeah. So there’s a couple things that you had touched on I wanted to circle back with and just maybe get a little bit more information. So one is with the onboarding of new members. You talked about different staff members meeting with the new members and kind of doing the orientation onboarding. Are these members coming to the chamber office? Are they going to visit these businesses at their location? Is it a mixture of both? How do you try to schedule that?

Tonia Stephenson (21:29.132)
Mm-hmm.

Tonia Stephenson (21:45.6)
It’s a mixture. A lot of people want to come to the office and see our office and meet the whole team and we’re a great location. So a lot of them happen at the chamber, but then a lot of the members say, come see my place and come take a tour or whatever. So it’s really a mixture. And for the member meetings, have where tier dues. So we have bronze, silver, gold, platinum and titanium.

Brandon Burton (22:05.934)
That’s good.

Tonia Stephenson (22:15.415)
Bronze members, our membership team takes care of it, but if it’s Silver and above, I’ll actually have that member meeting with them as well, just so that they know who I am and that we all care about. I we all care about them regardless, but I do take the time to spend time with the Silver and above members when they’re first joining.

Brandon Burton (22:34.124)
Yeah, yeah, that’s good. So I really liked what you mentioned about T-shirt Fridays and being able to wear a T-shirt of different businesses in your community, different members and going out and taking pictures and posting them. Do members enroll in that? Do you proactively reach out and say, hey, do you want to send us a T-shirt and be included in the next T-shirt Friday or how does that program work?

Tonia Stephenson (23:00.031)
The only thing we have to do is have a t-shirt Friday and we end up with more t-shirts. I don’t know how many. I have quite a collection. Well, we’re not quite there, but yeah, we have quite a collection. That’s for sure. So every time we go out, typically I will come back with four shirts. And so we don’t really, we don’t charge for that, which, you know, we kind of talked about, it’s like we might all.

Brandon Burton (23:04.389)
Right. I can imagine what your closet looks like, right?

600 different t-shirts with logos on it

Tonia Stephenson (23:28.607)
start charging for this program. But we have some great events and we do fine with other things. And so far we’ve not charged because that way all sides of our members can participate. Nobody feels like that they’re really left out. And so we say the only charge for this program for T-shirt Friday is the cost of four T-shirts and you just provide us your shirts and we’ll wear them on that Friday.

Brandon Burton (23:30.147)
Yeah.

Tonia Stephenson (23:56.002)
So we start out that morning, we take a group shot of all of us in our shirts and what’s really cute is sometimes there’s stuff on the back. So we have to turn around and have pictures of our backs so that we get the information on there. And our initial post out is the four of us in our shirts and we tell a little bit about the company and we give the company’s website address and how to get in touch with the people and what their specialties are. And then,

From there, it’s usually individual selfies with our members or the group of members. Because we really want to catch a lot of people and sometimes we can’t catch them open. So sometimes we might be out by a sign and say, you know, telling about some company. Or sometimes we’re on the side of the road taking pictures and people are looking at us like we’re crazy. Recently, we have a new bank who’s building a new location. And so recently I stopped at the corner.

Brandon Burton (24:38.998)
Yeah.

Tonia Stephenson (24:52.119)
where there’s like, you know, basically like rubbish, you know, in this big, big parking lot right now, but they’ve got a beautiful plan and design that they’re getting ready to build. So here I am by the construction fence, taking a selfie with the picture of the bank that’s coming. And people just looked at me like I was idiot or they blow their horns and I was like, hi, yeah, it’s just me taking a selfie with the pit, know. There really is a purpose here.

Brandon Burton (25:13.186)
Yeah.

Brandon Burton (25:19.042)
Follow us on Facebook, right?

Tonia Stephenson (25:22.199)
It’s like, yes, I might be crazy and do things differently, but here we are taking a picture with the fence. But it’s really, it was a good promotion because a lot of people didn’t know that that’s what was going on that location or they hadn’t been driven by there to see what the beautiful rendition looks like. And so it’s just about…

just about promoting what’s going on in the membership and promoting the members and what they’re doing and what their services are, what their product is.

Brandon Burton (25:53.058)
Yeah. So the other thing I wanted to ask about is you mentioned staff and ambassadors going out to deliver your annual directories. You had a name for it. Operation Thank You. So with Operation Thank You, I mean, you get, I guess, roughly about 30 people going out in the community to make these personal interactions, these personal deliveries. that sound about right? About 25 ambassadors and staff?

Tonia Stephenson (26:00.504)
Operation thank you.

Tonia Stephenson (26:17.783)
about 50 people. We have between 20 and 25 ambassadors. I have 20 board members, four staff, and then sometimes we recruit spouses and other people. So usually 50 or 60 people will help us out throughout the week. We do it in half days, we do it in teams of two so that it’s easier if you drive up to a location, somebody jumps out and delivers and jumps back in.

Brandon Burton (26:25.174)
And the board, okay. Yeah.

Tonia Stephenson (26:45.495)
Of course, sometimes we end up sending out to salespeople and they’re parking in every parking lot and introducing themselves to every person and having long conversations. And I’m like, guys, you’re not getting the books delivered if you’re doing that, but they’re doing their jobs. So, you know, I’m just thankful that they might get four delivered in the morning time, typically you can get 30 to 50 delivered in the morning and again in the afternoon.

Brandon Burton (26:57.228)
Right? Like I’m multitasking, yeah.

Tonia Stephenson (27:14.845)
if you get in and get out and keep moving.

Brandon Burton (27:17.9)
Yeah, yeah. Now I really like that plan and it’s a great way to have a for sure like an annual touch point with each member as you as you get those delivered and hand delivered. It goes a long ways with the payday bar or whatever that gift is so that’s awesome.

Tonia Stephenson (27:34.284)
Yeah. Well, when I was in, back in my day, when I was doing membership and learning the role and learning about chambers and figuring things out and sometimes, and the high point chamber that I was at for many years, we were quite a large chamber and, and it was hard to get to all of our members and to, to, to touch them throughout the year. And so a lot of times they only heard from us, was when they got their renewal notice and,

And I don’t know how many times I’d hear, it’s like, all you want is my money and you don’t really care about it. And even as a membership person, it broke my heart and I’ve tried to do my best to not, for that not to be the way it was. And our whole team, we all had a great heart about it, but we had 1300 members and there were six of us and still again, you just can’t get to everybody.

As I’ve learned throughout the years, I really don’t ever want a member say that the only time I hear from you is my renewal notice. And, and if, if that’s the only time they’ve heard from us, then shame on us. And, and so that’s what, and you know, my marketing person can say, but look at the hits that they get on our website, regardless of they hear from us, you know, they got these hits on the website. They got, no, I want them to hear from us. I want them to know. Yeah.

Brandon Burton (28:57.134)
It’s got to be meaningful to them, right?

Tonia Stephenson (29:00.511)
I want it to be personal for them. Their business is very personal, know, especially our small business owners. Some of our small business owners has their entire life savings wrapped up in that business. And when I say that they are part of the chamber family, when I say that the four of us are part of their team, I want them to feel it and I want them to know it. And I want them to, when they’re losing sleep at night, I want them to pick up the phone and say, here’s my troubles. And

We go to work to try to figure out what those troubles are. If they don’t ever see us, they don’t ever hear from us and they don’t, and if we are nothing but the email that comes in that says, hey, here’s your dues, they’re not gonna do that. And then when they get that email from the dues, they say, why do I need to pay this? And I get that, because I mean, money’s tight a lot of times. And so I wanna give them a reason that they say, I can’t afford not to pay this. And that…

That’s our goal with every phone call, with every visit, with every post we put out. That’s our goal is for them to know that they need us.

Brandon Burton (30:06.434)
Yeah. Well, I love all these touch points. I love the recognition. I love being able to show the member value to the chamber. These are all, I’m going to call them tactics or strategies, but that kind of cheapens it. I mean, it really is showing that you genuinely care about these individuals, these businesses and their success. I don’t think we can have a discussion about retention without me asking, can you share what your retention rates look like?

Tonia Stephenson (30:36.513)
We’re typically between 92 to 94%. So we typically lose members because they’ve moved or they’ve closed. And sometimes with, I don’t know if other chambers are having this, but over the last five, seven years, banks, because corporate says they’re not gonna be a member. Makes me so mad.

Brandon Burton (30:41.526)
something to celebrate.

Brandon Burton (31:00.94)
Yep. Yep. Or Walmart, we’ve been seeing that. So, yeah.

Tonia Stephenson (31:05.892)
So far, Walmart’s a really good member for us, so I hope that I don’t see that from them.

Brandon Burton (31:08.78)
That’s good. Hopefully they hang on. Yeah. Well, as we begin to wrap up, but I’d like to see whether it’s based on our discussion or any other thoughts for the chambers listening who want to take their organization up to the next level. What kind of tip or strategy would you share with them and trying to accomplish that goal?

Tonia Stephenson (31:30.611)
One thing that I have always done and is real important to me and I think your podcast fits right in with this and I think it’s great that we have this as a resource. I’ve always had a mentor or multiple mentors. I’ve always found my neighboring chambers and made friends with them and made sure that they’re some of my closest friends.

and colleagues and somebody I could call on. So when I moved here, that was the first thing I did was look up my neighboring chambers and introduce myself, except for I had two that was precious and they reached out to me before I could get to them. And I have a neighboring county to the west that she and I call each other our chamber sisters because we just know that we’re there for each other.

So I think having mentors is very important and talking to other chambers and not just chamber mentors, but I think just having mentors in general, especially if there’s something that you’re not good at and you see it in somebody else, it’s great to spend time with that person and say, hey, can we go to lunch and just learn from that person, watch them. And then I think being a mentor to others is real important. And I know for me,

I’ve taken on several younger chamber professionals and spent time with them and tried to help them. And every time I’ve done that with the intentions of me trying to help them and help them learn and grow, I’ve found that I’ve learned and grown just as much through the process of being a mentor as I have having mentors. So I think that that’s just so important. You can learn so much, and especially if you’ll learn it with the right attitude and then go back and try to apply things that.

Brandon Burton (33:07.008)
Right. Yeah, it’s helpful.

Tonia Stephenson (33:21.547)
that makes sense. Of course, we all hear things and learn things all the time and it’s like, well, that would be great, but there’s no way I can put that on my plate. No, there’s no way. But to be intentional with trying to really, especially in areas where you know that you need to grow, learn and try to grow as much as you can in those areas.

Brandon Burton (33:39.18)
Yeah, I think that’s a great piece of advice. I like asking everyone I have on the show, as we look to the future of Chambers of Commerce, how do you see the future of Chambers and their purpose going forward?

Tonia Stephenson (33:51.416)
That’s a very interesting topic because I found that in during COVID times, we had to really think about chambers and what we were doing and how we did things. And we had to really pivot and change a lot of our ways of thinking to stay relevant. And I think that’s so important in the chamber world is that we stay relevant. And I think that there was a time at least for the chambers that I was working with that

it was maybe hard for us to be relevant, when some technology seems to have taken over a lot of what we traditionally did in the past. And so I think for us to update our what we’re doing and always look for new ways to do things and new ways to present ourselves and being relevant in the business community and being on top of what the business community needs and individuals need and taking care of those things are, there’s just.

So important. I think that it’s real important that chambers be chambers and work with businesses and know that we are here for business community. We are business association. We’re not a social group. We are not here to everybody socialize and have a good time, but we are here to grow business and help our businesses in whichever way that they need. Being a voice for the business. Our chambers very active in governmental affairs, so.

That’s one thing that sets us apart is we are, I always say if the business community was a body, stick figures all I can do, we would be the mouthpiece of that body. And we got to be the mouthpiece for our businesses because we are the group that is gonna be standing up for our businesses and making sure that our businesses are heard. And that’s what our role is.

But always being able to, always looking for ways to change and grow is just real important and staying relevant I think is so important.

Brandon Burton (35:51.98)
I’d be curious how you would label the rest of the body parts, but that’s okay. Well, that’s a discussion for another time. but this has been great having you on the show. I appreciate these tactics, these ideas, these ways of showing your care for your members to really nurture those relationships. I wanted to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for listeners who may want to reach out and connect with you maybe as a mentor.

Tonia Stephenson (35:58.488)
I’ve never really thought about the rest of the body, so I’d have to think about that.

Brandon Burton (36:21.954)
or just to get ideas of how you’re doing things, what would be the best way for them to reach out and connect with you?

Tonia Stephenson (36:28.161)
Sure, I appreciate the opportunity. First podcast I’ve done, so hey, this might be new thing for me. But yes, Burke County Chamber of Commerce, I’ll actually give my cell phone number because reaching me at the office is sometimes very hard. My cell phone number is 336-689-5438. And you can email me at T. Stevenson, it’s tstephenson@burkecounty.org.

So email me or call me or text me either way. I’m happy to always help out fellow chamber people when I can and talk to fellow chamber people. I love learning from them. So be happy to talk to anyone.

Brandon Burton (37:15.66)
That’s perfect. We will get that in our show notes to make it nice and easy. But again, this has been great having you on the show. Thank you for setting aside some time to be with us and share these insights. I think it provided a ton of value for our listeners today. So thank you. Thank you a lot.

Tonia Stephenson (37:30.935)
Thank you, I appreciate you.

The Art of Curiosity with Candace Carnahan

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your hosts Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

Our title sponsor for this episode is Bringing Local Back. Remember when your community could turn to a local TV station or newspaper for the latest updates and affordable ads? Those days may be fading, but the need for local connection remains. That’s why we created Bringing Local Back, a game changing platform that restores the local visibility and advertising power to your community. It’s more than just tech. It’s about driving engagement and creating new revenue for your chamber. Ready to see the future visit bringinglocalback.com to schedule your demo today. This is the future of local commerce.

Our guest for this episode is Candace Carnahan. Candace is a relationship driven, solution oriented leader with a passion for putting strategy into action. As the President and CEO of the Grand Junction Area of Chamber of Commerce. She is committed to fostering a thriving business climate in western Colorado through advocacy innovation, innovative partnerships and forward thinking initiatives that benefit the local businesses. The chamber serves. Candace is a board member of W. A.C.E. and a graduate of the US Chamber of Commerce Business Leads Fellowship, which focuses on the critical connection between K through 12 education and workforce development. A Grand Junction native and graduate of Central High School, Candace is enjoys golfing, hiking with her dog, Harlow, and spending time with her husband of 20 years. Candace, I’m excited to have you with us today, here on Chamber Chat Podcast. I’d love to give you a moment to say hello to all the Chamber Champions who are out there listening, and to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better.

Candace Carnahan 2:11
Yes. Brandon, thank you so much for having me. I think that it alluded to it a little bit in my bio there. But, you know, I think something that I a lot of people find interesting is that I’m able to act in this leadership role in a community that I was born and raised in, and so went out and and had my adventures growing up, but to come back and serve the community that my family continues to have deep roots in is such an honor, and, quite frankly, makes the work just that much more rewarding to know that this is a place that I’ve called home for a very long time.

Brandon Burton 2:50
You are like a poster child for workforce development, right? You grow up in the community, you leave, get your education, but you come back, right? That’s what we want them all to do. Yeah, exactly. That’s awesome. Well, tell us a little bit about the Grand Junction area Chamber, just to give us an idea of size, staff, scope of work, budget to kind of set the stage for our discussion today, absolutely.

Candace Carnahan 3:11
So our chamber is located, it’s about the last thing you hit between Denver and Utah. So we’re on that western edge of Colorado. We are honored to represent nearly 800 businesses here locally as investors in our chamber that represent almost 45,000 employees. But we also make sure to support the region in a number of different efforts, whether it’s workforce development and policy as well. So we currently have a full time team of six here at our chamber, and our budget is just over $800,000 annually.

Brandon Burton 3:49
All right, that’s perfect. That’s the stage for our discussion today, and I’m excited to dive into our discussion. It’s not the typical type of conversation that we have on the podcast, but it’s something that I think is important for every chamber staff to listen to and to really lean into, and that’s the art of curiosity. And we’ll dive in deeper on that. I’m curious to learn your approach on this as soon as we get back from this quick break.

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Brandon Burton 8:23
All right, Candace, we’re back. So as I mentioned before the break today, we’re talking about the art of curiosity. And I understand you’ve presented on this before at W A C E, and granted, not everybody listening is a member of W A C E, and like I mentioned before, we hit record, to be honest, even going to conferences, we only really retain a percentage of whatever is presented. So it’ll be great to have this documented and have it be shareable for chamber leaders throughout the country and really anywhere they are. So I’m going to hand the mic over to you and let us, you know, give us an idea as you approach your work, how does curiosity come into it? Has it benefited you? What are some of those key things to think of and just, you know, start where you want to start from.

Candace Carnahan 9:09
Yeah, Brandon. You know, I think this is something that leaders in all industries could really lean on, especially with the climate that we find ourselves in as leaders these days, but as chamber executives, being curious is, in my mind, the only way to make sure that you are always focused on the right solutions and the right problems. It is so easy to get caught up in complex community issues, workforce challenges, policy debates, and if you aren’t crystal clear on the work that needs to be done and why it needs to be done, well it’s going to make our job that much harder, and it’s already hard enough. And so I actually got advice. Oh. Really early on in my role here as CEO, and it was always lead with curiosity. There should always be a question as your first thought, and oftentimes the first thing out of your mouth when you’re approaching things, because there’s typically are different layers than just the one that you’re seeing at face value. And so it’s so important as chambers and chamber executives, when we are faced with a never ending parade of challenges and issues and needs from those that we serve to make sure that we’re we’re staying as effective and intentional as possible.

Brandon Burton 10:41
It seems like just throughout the world that there’s a lot more tension than there used to be, whether it’s politically or just how one sees the world. So I think that’s so important to be curious and learn. You know, what makes somebody see the you know, from their perspective on whatever the topic is, and you can learn a lot, you know, by asking those questions. And I think there really is an art to it, because you can ask questions, and you know, the recipient of the questions might think, well, she’s kind of dense, you know, for not knowing that answer, or, you know, this person’s naive for asking this question. So how do you lean into the curiosity in that art form? What are some of those things that you’ve learned in leaning into the curiosity? I

Candace Carnahan 11:30
really love this question, and I first want to just clarify that I feel there, there’s internal curiosity and external curiosity, and it’s a careful balance of this. I want to make sure that we as chamber executives are internally being as curious as possible. When you think you’ve asked all the questions, ask yourself one more time. Okay, but what is the true issue here? Or what? What person is missing from this table? What is the true resource that would move the needle on this, and then, if I don’t have it, who is the best person to help leverage in this, in this question? So I think those are the internal things that you’re constantly trying to address. But when you externally, sometimes just the simple, can you help me better understand this, or what I’m hearing is can, is that correct? Just getting Clara clarity of things, because not only are we looking at a large volume of issues that we’re trying to face as chambers, but the speed is very quickly picking up as well. And so slowing down the conversations to take the time to get to the root of things is so critical, and I have found myself when I say what I’m hearing is, Can Is that correct? They’ll say, oh, that’s that’s not quite what I meant. But let me help clarify in your because just think of how many times we assume we understood what was said, or we think we know where this is going, and that can not be the case. So by taking just a little bit of time with your questions, to slow down the conversation and be really intentional with the information that alone is going to drive you in the right place. And you know, this is not asking questions for the sake of asking questions. I want to make sure that’s really clear. It’s using questions to help you dig a little deeper, right? And fine tune your efforts and initiatives. Is really, really the goal here.

Brandon Burton 13:38
Yeah, I think the key, like you started off with, is that internal curiosity that’s going to keep things authentic. If you’re really trying to get to the root of what’s causing, you know, a situation or an individual’s thinking or perspective or whatever, if you are internally curious, it’ll be authentic and getting to the right questions, getting to the root of what that that causes?

Candace Carnahan 14:01
Brandon, I can’t, I can’t emphasize that enough. I think that, you know, it’s so easy for us to take things at face value, or take the information that we’re being handed or read a newspaper headline or whatever it is, I think we have to take a moment to say, Okay, but what else? What else am I not seeing in this first contact here or this first interaction? What else should I be looking for or knowing or thinking about? Because as chamber executives, that’s that’s really critical we we represent such a diverse group, even within the business industry, and then you pepper and community dynamics, policy, it gets messy, really, really fast. And I love that you used the word authentic, because anytime you stop being curious, that is typically when you veer off your path of authenticity, and that’s usually when you become less effective and less. Impactful as a chamber of commerce and in the toughest of moments, and you can’t see the light, I think your curiosity is that beacon of, okay, what this is my little step forward. This is how I can continue to move forward in this situation. Because if you’re so far off that path by just being reactive and and not really getting to the root of things that not only are you less effective, I think you can be damaging within your organization and community, if you aren’t really clear on what it is you should be doing instead of what it is you are doing. Absolutely,

Brandon Burton 15:36
I was thinking, you know, as as far as how somebody views the world, it’s interesting how people, just in general, will identify with certain things, whether it be, it could be something, you know, drastic, like political alignment. You know, I identify as this, and because of that, I’m going to make the stance no matter what, you know, hell or high water, I’m making the stance. It could be something as simple as even a diet structure, you know, somebody follows, and they believe this is the only way to do, to eat, you know, to be healthy, because this is what I do, and that’s their worldview. And to understand that there’s always multiple perspectives. There’s always reasonings for both sides of whatever it and sometimes there’s multiple sides. So being able to lean in authentically is huge. It’s

Candace Carnahan 16:29
huge. I mean, when you compare it to let’s compare building a community to building a house. If everybody showed up on the job site and they all had the same perspective as the plumbers, that was their that’s what they did. They agreed on great plumbing and what type of piping and what type of faucets, the plumbing is going to be outstanding. The rest of the house is going to be very questionable. And we as a community need to make sure that we are also realizing that we’re all coming together to a table to build something. And what we need to be doing is working together to create the best structure and outcome possible. You know, the painters and the plumbers are going to disagree sometimes, and timing might be a challenge, and there’s all these different things, but at the end of the day, they’ve worked together to create a really great product and a really great home. And I think we need to make sure as a community, to be able to step back and make sure that we’re having disagreements of tasks and not of relationships. And that comes to really asking the questions both of ourselves and of our partners. Of First of all, here’s a really important question I ask all the time, is, what is my role in this conversation, but also, I say, what is their role in the conversation? I can’t be holding them to an accountability level of the role of a role that’s not appropriate for their seat at the table. And it’s funny how often we will do that and say, well, we we’re disagreeing. You should think differently. Well, that’s their role. Is that perspective, and we have to honor it and move forward with it, and it does bring you to better solutions, or at least better understanding of where everyone lies in the conversation. So, yeah, it’s so important for us to take a step back and just really understand not just our own why, but everyone else’s why, because the motives in the conversation are really going to be where everyone is operating out

Brandon Burton 18:32
of yeah, that is huge. And that’s not something that I had considered before. Is understanding what their why. I think a lot of people will understand what’s my why, you know, why am I engaging in this conversation, or whatever it may be, but to understand the other person’s Why, what their point of view is, what, what’s bringing them to the table? And I don’t know, for me to make sense of it, I think of, you know, in a TV show, when you see a courtroom, right? You’ve got the prosecutor and you got the defense, and somewhere in the middle is the truth, right? And but both sides have their role that they’re they’re working towards, and it’s important to understand what that role is, so you can come to some sort of agreement

Candace Carnahan 19:12
Absolutely you you would not want to be in a position where they were expecting you to shift off of your mission, your why? Your unwavering advocacy for the business community. That’s not something that you would want them to ask of you, and oftentimes we shouldn’t be asking that of them. We have to recognize that, you know, we each have parts to play, and they’re very different sometimes and sometimes they’re not. But it’s really important to keep that in mind. Absolutely,

Brandon Burton 19:39
I love the analogy you gave of building a house and you’ve got the different contractors building a house. It reminds I’d seen a reel a while back where this person is impersonating different tradesmen as they come to a construction site, and how they approach things, from the plumber to the electrician to the drywall guy and the painters and. Everything and and obviously it’s coming from a skewed perspective of, you know, a certain contractor not understanding the why for why the plumber is doing things the way they are, or the electrician doing things the way they are. And it’s kind of poking fun at them. But if you could get to the root of why they do what they do the way they do, it changes everything. And you could build a better house, or you could build a stronger community. It’s

Candace Carnahan 20:23
so important, and I find myself often saying, what, where? Where am I most living in the uncomfortable because that tends to be where I either haven’t been curious enough or haven’t gotten to know that area enough so there’s clearly unanswered questions. And what’s exciting is that gives me opportunity to say, You know what to be great at what I do. I need to go explore that perspective. I need to either go spend time with them. I need to go witness firsthand what it is they’re trying to communicate to me, I just need to have a better understanding and opportunity to ask questions outside of the heat of the moment, often outside of when we’re trying to hash out solutions. But just tell me more about your perspective, and that way, when we are in the next conversation, you are that Curiosity has led you to a more informed place. It it could reinforce where you’re at. It could shed light on where opportunities for collaboration are. It can also create opportunity for how you can leverage partnerships and work together. Because I now, I didn’t know you had that tool in your toolbox, and I have, you have the hammer, I have the nails. Hey, why are we not working together? And so it’s very rarely does anything bad come from being curious. I think that’s just i I’ve challenged when I, I thought about this conversation today, I was trying to say, Are there any pitfalls of being curious? And I’m sure there are, but it’s very few and far between. I would say, yeah.

Brandon Burton 22:10
I think the pitfall would be as if you’re not internally curious, if you’re not focusing on that, that would be the big pitfall when

Candace Carnahan 22:17
you aren’t that’s where it starts to get dicey. Yeah. So

Brandon Burton 22:21
I was thinking of it from the standpoint too, of as you have a new business member, investor in your organization, to be able to just be curious about what they offer. Like you said, they’ve got the hammer, you’ve got the nails. What connections can we make? So it doesn’t even have to come from a point of where there’s tension at all. It can just be, I want to learn more about what you have to offer. How can we help you? And again, knowing what their role is and what your role is, and trying to align those to, you know, build the perfect community, right? To build a stronger, better community and and make those connections. That’s what a chamber is all about.

Candace Carnahan 22:55
I love there’s no boundaries to how you can use this tool. That’s what’s exciting. You know, it’s, it’s a free tool. It’s, it’s something that you can create as an asset. And I keep saying, as a CEO or in chamber leaders, this should be something that you are including your whole team on in the journey. If your entire team is operating with this premise of being curiosity, to go back to your invest investor membership conversation, we regularly say that our those conversations are more about us getting to know them than it is about them getting to know us. And if we walk away without having any conversation about what tier levels or opportunities are, that’s okay, because what we’ve done is we’ve been curious about their business and shown them that they matter, and we want to know about how they fit into this really important piece within the business community. We’re already building a strong relationship with them, and that can be used on board, members, volunteers. If you are the more you get curious about what people what they need, what motivates them, you’re much better positioned to serve that person or support that person. If you are operating off of what you think they need or think motivates them, you have a really good shot of missing the mark. And so, yeah, this is something that can be used all the time community partners. There’s, you know, use your use your survey tools. That’s the one of the biggest things you can do by just It’s funny how often I hear people say, Huh, I wonder what our members would feel about this. Ask them five question flash bowl, hey, how do you feel about this? I think sometimes we just discount the ability to just ask,

Brandon Burton 24:52
yeah, I love that. So the idea of including your whole team, that just really resonates with. With me, it really doesn’t move the needle. If only the chamber executive is the one on board with curiosity. If your team’s not doing it again, it goes back to authenticity. Doesn’t seem real, and you’re not going to have all the touch points that the rest of your team has. How do we integrate that within staff, within the board, maybe even ambassadors? How do we integrate that curiosity and generate that movement? Is how I see it.

Candace Carnahan 25:26
I am so glad you asked that. I think first of all, you have to normalize it. There can be stigma about asking questions, and somehow it makes you seem like you’re not paying attention or not skilled enough to handle the situation. We really have created a culture around the fact that the problem only comes if you’re not asking questions. Are you asking for help? Are you asking how this connects with another teammates work? Are you asking how our members could be benefiting from this or who else might be interested in this resource, we try to ask ourselves, which is funny that I say that, but anytime we’re doing something it, we kind of say, Okay, but what else you think it’s you think it’s done or you think that you’ve explored it? Yes, but what else like if you could push just a little further into that curiosity zone, what? And then it’s funny, how often say, Oh, well, actually, you know, I could explore something a little bit differently. Or it’s amazing what just that little nudge over the edge will do. It also, by doing this as a team. I think it shows to our members in our board what our motives are, and it has created an atmosphere where they feel comfortable to come bring us information as well. So maybe we haven’t outwardly asked for it, but because of how we have integrated this as a culture, they know that we’re open to feedback and differing perspectives even when we’re not asking for it. So I think it’s it’s simply about incorporating it naturally into everything you do, and making sure that everyone understands that the only time there should be concerns is when we as a group stop asking questions. And if someone is not asking questions, we need to kind of turn to them and say, Is there something we could be doing to help support you in opening up this communication? Yeah, we always end and start and end every staff meeting with questions to each other as well. It’s not just me, you know, it’s, do you have any team? Do you have any questions for our marketing director team? Do you have any questions marketing director? Is there anything that the team could be helping or supporting you with instead of just waiting for it to happen? It’s, I’m opening the door, jump in and and it’s really exciting to see that take off, because they are and they they do it naturally, and it makes us all better, because our organizations are not just the CEO. I think that’s we know that, but it’s really easy to get into that mode. The organizations are every single person, volunteers, board members, your investors, and that’s got to be something that everyone does. Yeah, I love that.

Brandon Burton 28:22
What else are we missing out of the art of curiosity, I feel like there’s questions that I haven’t asked. What are what are the things that are on the top of your mind? You

Candace Carnahan 28:33
know, the only thing that comes to mind is that a question asked once is not necessarily a question answered, and so don’t be afraid to go back and ask again. And I’m just going to give this example our chamber. I’m very lucky to have inherited a chamber that is very strongly positioned. We had a CEO who was very well respected, and she was here for 35 years. And so I learned from one of the best in the industries. But being able to say, even though we know who we are as an organization and we really excel, who is it we do we want to be today? And that is actually something that at every strategic planning session, we say, okay, we know who we are now. Who do we want to be tomorrow? And I think that’s something that can also be brought into other conversations. We know this workforce development strategy is working now, but what is it that our businesses need tomorrow? And so as long as you’re continuing to evolve your questions and go back and just check in on them. I think that’s really important, because answers can get stagnant, and I that’s again, you have now as an organization, stopped being curious about how to be the best version of yourself, and we have to continue to do that.

Brandon Burton 29:53
So maybe a 2.0 episode would be the art of asking the question, right? So you can. You’re curious, but then there’s a way of asking the question to where you can get the answer instead of, you know, how are you doing? I’m good. You know, there’s a better question to be asked,

Candace Carnahan 30:08
right? Oh, yes, absolutely. I love that.

Brandon Burton 30:11
Well, Candace for a chamber listening who’s wanting to take their organization up to the next level. What kind of tip or action item or piece of advice would you share with them and trying to accomplish this goal?

Candace Carnahan 30:28
I would say that you have to lean into the uncomfortable oftentimes, there can also be a fear about asking questions, because they’re like, oh, that means more work. Like, I don’t want to

Brandon Burton 30:40
know. I am not doing that, right?

Candace Carnahan 30:44
I would say this, you know, we’re not asking you to turn over all the rocks right right away. I’m just saying when that this is actually meant to be a tool to help lead you towards a more efficient level of effectiveness, right? So start small. Find a couple things that you can just get comfortable and see that Okay, two more questions actually didn’t make it worse. It actually streamlined my path to a productive solution. Or, holy moly, I was completely going down the wrong path. Or I had an answer that was actually in search of a problem. There really is no problem here. I can pivot and now divert resources. So start small. Find some things that you can just say, Hmm, what if I just thought one layer deeper, and go from there? Yeah, you’ll find it will start to integrate itself into your life. More and more

Brandon Burton 31:38
I like that. So I like asking everyone I have on the podcast, as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Candace Carnahan 31:50
Well, you know, it’s funny. I do tie it, actually, to this topic. I have felt, and I see it more and more and more about our role as being that convening agent in our communities being our most important role that we play, especially with how divided everything seems to have a hard line drawn, and people are picking sides. And what’s unfortunate about that is it, it really does keep us away from true solutions for many of the challenges that we’re facing as communities. And so I think it is important for us, if we are, if we’re not saying who’s missing from this conversation, or what is the true problem that we’re trying to tackle here, to make sure we’re all aligned. Because, gosh, if, if you think you’re solving this problem and I’m solving this problem and we actually are in the same table trying to solve the same problem, we’re not going to get very far. And so I think as chambers, we have to really, I would say, if you do nothing, do that be the person that’s able to come to the table, bring people to the table. And if you’re operating from that curiosity standpoint, you’re curious on how we as a group can get to the best solution, and that’s your motivating factor to be there, not to be the person that has a feather in their hat. Because I brought everyone to the table, it’s I’m curious on how we can bring our ability to get everyone at the table and truly walk away making an impact. I think that’s going to be something that we have to lean into, because there there are other resources for a lot of the other things that we’re doing. But if we’re not bringing people together to to solve and navigate the barriers and burdens facing our businesses, we’re not going to be effective. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 33:39
I like that. That’s a great tip in how we look and navigate into the future. Candice, I wanted to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for listeners who might want to reach out and connect with you. Maybe learn more about your approach to curiosity. What would be the best way for them to reach out and connect with you?

Candace Carnahan 33:59
I always welcome anyone to email me. It’s very easy to find me. It’s just candace@gjchamber.org We do have a great website as well where you can find me, which is GJChamber.org. But I’m always happy to talk to anyone. And you know, this is, this is hard work that we all do as chambers, and the more we can lean on each other and share information and opportunities, I think we’re better for it.

Brandon Burton 34:35
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I appreciate you spending time with us today and letting us, you know, be a little curious about your approach and how you how you approach things there at the Grand Junction area, chamber and and just your work in general. I think it’s a great way, a great way, to have a perspective, to learn more, and to really allow you to serve your business community in a much better and elevated way. So. Thank you for sharing that with us today.

Candace Carnahan 35:02
I really appreciate the opportunity and and thank you for all that you do to to keep us all tapped in on the important things facing our industry.

Brandon Burton 35:10
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Rebuilding a Troubled Chamber with TJ Sullivan

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Our guest for this episode is TJ Sullivan, after three decades as a top college leadership speaker, TJ Sullivan gave up his top airline status to become a chamber executive. TJ is currently the President and CEO of the Parker Chamber of Commerce and Foundation in Denver, Colorado area. He’s received CEO of the Year honors from the Colorado Chamber of Alliance. He graduated W, A, C, E Academy in 2023 and he also runs a Tuesday night bowling league. So, TJ, I’m excited to have you with us today on chamber chat podcast. I’d love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the chamber champions who are out there listening, and hopefully I didn’t steal your thunder, but, yeah, share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better.

TJ Sullivan 1:56
Well, hello everybody. I was, I was teasing Brandon before we got on here that, you know, there’s probably, he’s probably done 8000 of these interviews, and he finally got to the to the to the dregs. So it’s nice to be here. And greetings from Colorado, where it’s a 68 degrees and sunny today, so in December. Yeah, and you put some pressure on me, say something interesting about myself. Um, okay, so here’s my favorite one. I tell at parties. I ate at the very first Chipotle on the very first day it was open. I was working at the time at the University of Denver, and Steve Ells opened the famously opened the chipotle literally across the street from my office. And we thought, oh, look a cute new burrito place. Let’s go check it out. And, oh, my God, I wish I’d quit my job immediately and gone to work for him. I think his net worth is now $500 million so, man, if I, if I had known, if I had only known, but I went back to my white collar job across the street and felt sorry for the people putting burritos together. Those people are probably billionaires by now. So, yeah, yeah, that

Brandon Burton 3:00
that is pretty cool though, you know, yeah, first day, first Chipotle. Then, yeah, if

TJ Sullivan 3:06
you go into any Chipotle back by the restrooms, you’ll see a picture of the very first Chipotle, and you can just picture me walking in there the first day, going, hmm, chicken or steak. You know, that’s

Brandon Burton 3:14
right. Hopefully you made a journal entry that day. Yeah, July,

TJ Sullivan 3:19
July of 1993 Good Lord, I’m old. Yeah.

Brandon Burton 3:25
Well, tell us a little bit about the Parker Chamber of Commerce. Give us an idea of size, staff, budget, scope of work to kind of set the stage for our discussion today? Sure.

TJ Sullivan 3:33
So like in back when I back around my 50th birthday, I decided I just couldn’t travel, like I had been traveling 200 nights a year for almost three decades, and I was looking for a job here in Denver where I could sleep in my own bed and and, you know, have a more normal life. And I got a job at the superior chamber, which is up in Boulder County, up close to Boulder, very a one person show in a cubicle, doing literally everything. Did that for two and a half years, and then COVID hit, and we, we actually did really well during COVID. Surprisingly, we were one of the few chambers in Colorado that grew significantly during during COVID. And then the folks down in Parker needed a CEO, so they, they recruited me down there. So Parker is about 20 miles southeast of Denver, if you imagine the Denver Metro area as a clock face. I used to work up at 11 where Boulder is. Now I work down at five where, where Parker is in very red Douglas County, and I’m a nice Denver blue guy, so that was kind of interesting to be recruited down there. But they hate being lumped in as a Denver suburb. But as growth continues to happen, it’s just sort of inevitable that we’re becoming this affluent Denver, suburban, exurban, type of a city. They still like to think of themselves as something very unique and separate from Denver. But the Denver influence is there very small business ecosystem. It’s we don’t have a lot of big corporations manufacture. Dollars. It’s a it’s sort of got a bedroom community type of feel to it. We have about 475 business members, which translates to about 1100 humans that are attached to those memberships, and about 300,000 or so in membership revenue each year, for about 43% of our annual revenue. So we do about, we in 2025, I think we’ll do about $680,000 budget. So, and I just hired my fifth staff person to very exciting. That’s a, that’s who we are.

Brandon Burton 5:30
Did you say today? Yeah,

TJ Sullivan 5:32
literally, this morning I call, I called a, called a nice guy. I don’t know. He hasn’t accepted yet. So by the time this comes out, he might have told me to, you know, go pound sand. But yeah, we and the funny thing is, it’ll be a three men and two women in the office, so we have a little bit of a male dominated environment going on for some reason. I’m not sure how that, how that’s happening, but, you know it’s happening. So, yeah, it’s pretty fun. You

Brandon Burton 5:55
just hit the scales today with that. That’s, I know, it

TJ Sullivan 5:58
wasn’t even my choice. I let my membership VP, choose, you know, between the between the candidates, so it wasn’t even my fault, although I’m sure I’m going to be blamed for it. So right?

Brandon Burton 6:08
Well, I’m looking forward to our discussion today. I think it’s a discussion that a lot of chamber leaders can resonate with, as they’ve either been in this position or they might be in the throes of it right now, but we’ll be talking about rebuilding a troubled chamber and yeah, looking forward to hearing about your experience with this and how you’re able to overcome and all the the ins and outs of that as soon as they get back from this quick break.

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All right. TJ, we’re back. As I mentioned before the break, we’re talking about rebuilding a troubled chamber. And sounds like maybe this might be something that that you’ve had some. Experience with at one point or another, but yeah, it might be something close, close to home for you. But tell us what’s your experience been like? And I know everybody has their own story of, you know, the Chambers as they’ve come into them, and the approach they had to take.

TJ Sullivan 10:15
I, you know, first, I want to say that when I go to a lot of chamber conferences, we see or ACCE, it’s amazing how many new chamber executives you meet who are who are there and introduce themselves as someone who just took over a month and a half ago, and they’ve got no money and they have no idea what they’re doing. And please help me. And so I see these people, these well meaning people who are thrown into these impossible situations all the time. And having been through that a little bit, I I always feel like, man, get ready. Buckle in, because you’ve got a, you’ve got a journey here in front of you, you know. So maybe somebody listening right now is, you know, is one of those people who is like, What the hell have I done? You know, saying, Sure, this, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so for those of you that resonate with this topic, you know, I understand where you are and what’s what’s ahead of you. When I got to Parker, it had gone. The Parker chamber had gone through about 40 years, 40 or 50 years of just boom and bust, boom and bust, boom and bust and and, like a lot of chambers, it depended on who was in charge of the chamber, and how they handled money and and the economy and all the different things that affect, you know, how chambers do? When I got to our chamber, we had about $110,000 total in the bank, 80,000 of that was encumbered it. We have a big festival called the Parker Days Festival, which is about a $2 million enterprise every summer. And when COVID happened, the festival was canceled. But there was about, you know, 100 grand that had been collected from vendors and different, you know, businesses before COVID Shut it down. So about $80,000 worth of those businesses said you can hold on to the money, unless you don’t bring the festival back at some point, then we want our money back. So imagine, like, you know, basically having 100 $100,000 in the bank, and 80 of it, you know, you can’t, yeah, or if you do, you’re, you’re spending the credit card. So the the chamber had hired, had, had fired their entire staff, except for one person who is now my VP of membership. And she basically cleaned house, stripped everything down to the studs. She saved the chamber. She got the annual budget down to less than $200,000 a year. She had found, you know, so many storage units full of stuff that the previous executive had purchased. And it was just, it was just a financial she had managed to stop the hemorrhaging, but we had to rebuild, and we had to decide if we were going to start that festival back up, otherwise we had to give that money back. So it was a pretty precarious situation. And when I went in there, and even when I was up in Superior same sort of thing, it was very, very small. It wasn’t really in crisis, but it was very, very tiny, and there was a lot of ambition to grow it. So I guess, because I started my own company and ran it for 16 years and bootstrapped the whole thing, I guess I just have an orientation toward, I like to make money. I like money in the bank, and I like to be able to pay for what we’re going to do. That’s sort of my ethic. And so those are attributes, by the way, yeah, yeah. But I also, but I’m, but I am pretty ambitious when it comes to money. You know, I’m not afraid to ask for money. I’m not afraid to to charge a fair ticket price for something, and so I’m not timid about that kind of stuff. Yeah. So anyway, that was the challenge. I just had to basically, we had a lot of potential and a lot of opportunity. We had to decide if we were gonna do that festival, and that I had never done a festival before. Oh, my God, we’re talking like 40 carnival rides and 200 marketplace vendors and, you know, dozens and dozens of food vendors, three stages. I didn’t know I had never done any of that. So it was crazy. So that was a big, scary challenge, but we, thank God, we pulled it off in 2023 we 2022 2022 we brought the festival. Back. We ended up making, you know, several $100,000 we we got back on solid ground, and then we could start building so for those people out there who are walking into a mess and a really, really sad bank account, you can do it. You can do it. You just have to figure out what your assets are and where your potential is, and go hard,

Brandon Burton 14:22
yeah. So some of these people coming into these situations, it can be a variety of different things. It could be just, you know, poorly managed, you know, ahead of time. It could be a toxic board member that’s Yep, or several, or several, yeah. It could be conflict with a city manager, or something, you know, something internally that is really, you know, given a bad name to the chamber, we’ll say. So there’s a lot of different ways that things can, can kind of go awry. But as you, as you come into a chain, or maybe even before you come into a chamber, are there things. It looking back that you would want to know more about before taking a job, or questions that you would ask, or just, even if you took the job, just going into it eyes wide open, of knowing you know kind of what you’re getting yourself into.

TJ Sullivan 15:15
Well, I think, I think one of the keys for me when I took the Parker job was that the the man who was hiring me, who was the chair of the board at the time. He was super sharp and very smart and very transparent, and I liked his vibe, and I trusted him. Immediately, I knew that the board was about half people that wanted to hire me and half that wanted to hire somebody else that was very different, very very established, old school type of thing. But it just so happened that Brian was the chair, and he made my hire happen, which, in a blessing, made all the old school cranky people quit the board. So I ended up being hired by the good guys, and then the good guys were able to recruit more good guys onto the board, so good guys and women. So yeah, it was just, it was, I got lucky that I did not walk into a toxic board situation. I don’t think I would have taken the job if I got that vibe, though, I am not interested in being told no, a lot, and I’m not interested in having stale, you know, ideas, stale, stale, pale and male, as they say, right? I I’m a big booster of women business owners and minority business owners and and, yeah, I just want, I want to see a lot of diversity in in the membership, and a lot of excitement and entrepreneurship. And fortunately, the person who hired me said to me, if you take this crazy job on, I promise you will support you. And that was, that was key. Man, I couldn’t have done it without that.

Brandon Burton 16:43
That is huge. Yeah, and having that supportive board, and being able to pale still and males, it’s good to be able to move away from that, have some of that diversity represents the greater business community. That’s the way to do it, and to be able to have that confidence of your of the board chair, to be able to say, hey, you take this and we’ll we’ll support you. I see those that take positions that are being micromanaged by their board and and that’s that would just be frustrating because they’re tired. I don’t even know how you could turn it, turn around a program that never micromanaged that way.

TJ Sullivan 17:25
Well, I guess people who come into these jobs come from lots of different places. I was I came from it from having owned several successful businesses, so I had that entrepreneurial mindset. I hadn’t worked for anybody for 30 years before I took the job in Superior so I was, you know, fortunately, they knew what they were getting when they hired me. They were not getting someone who was timid, you know, they were getting someone who was fairly aggressive. So, you know, they knew what they were hiring. And thank God they they committed to that, right? I don’t think I would have been a good hire for a lot of boards out there who had a lot of ego wrapped up in things. Because, you know, the first thing, one of the first things I think you have to do when you have a troubled chamber that you’re trying to get back on the right track, I think is just to take a real hard, data driven look at the events that you’re doing. I am. It’s kind of funny that in Parker, I that one of the first things I did in the first three weeks I was there was I killed the town Christmas parade. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For some reason it had fallen to the chamber to do this parade. And you know, here we were in end of September, and I looked at the I was like, show me the sponsors. Where’s the money, where’s the numbers? And, like, it wasn’t there. And I did my calculations, and I was like, we’re gonna lose $60,000 that we don’t have on this thing. So I killed the parade, and you can imagine how popular I was after doing that. I have people in downtown Parker who still aren’t members of the chamber and still hate my guts for that, but, but in a twist of irony, they

Brandon Burton 18:52
were the big sponsors, right?

TJ Sullivan 18:54
Well, they were on the committee who felt like this is something we need to do, but they hadn’t. They weren’t treating it like a business, you know, and, and so, in a twist of irony, tomorrow, I’m, I’m one of the announcers for the Christmas parade, for the 2024, Christmas parade. So it did come back, but, uh, but I killed it the first year. So, yeah, that was, but, you know, looking at the events, I mean, God, so many chamber executives walk into, into their jobs, and there’s these, just these events that make no sense, that they just have to do because everybody’s so emotionally attached to it, but the money isn’t there. And I think some if you’re not willing to go in and slay a couple sacred cows, you’re you’re gonna have a tough time turning that chamber around.

Brandon Burton 19:34
So let’s talk about that for a minute, because as somebody new to a community, new to a chamber that, yeah, you got fresh eyes, fresh perspective, taking your knowledge and experience from from where you come from, and taking it to this new community. Are there things you need to be careful? I mean, you can look at the data, you can look at the numbers, you can look at the math like, does this make good business sense? Are there any considerations beyond. On that, like, are you gonna, are you gonna make people upset, that are gonna make your job harder, and all the other aspects, or what other things need to be considered? Yeah,

TJ Sullivan 20:07
yeah. And that’s part of being a good business person. I mean, when you have, you know, if you’re we need to run chambers like businesses. I mean, I was like, I told you at 110,000 in the bank, 80,000 encumbered, and I was gonna lose $60,000 on a parade, like, There’s no way. And, and when I went to my board and showed him the numbers, I’m like, somebody tell me where I’m wrong here. And they’re like, No, you’re right. This is a mess. And I said, Okay, I’ll take the heat. And, you know, I’m not afraid to take the heat. Yeah, I was my the joke around town for about two years was, was calling me parade killer. That was my nickname. But, you know, I don’t care. I put PK. I got, I got a shirt with PK on it, you know, as my nickname. Like, yeah, I’m the parade killer. That’s cool, you know. And you know, when you, when you, when you, when you say, Do you want to see the numbers? And here it is. You know, people have a hard time arguing that, especially business members. There were community members who are very upset. Oh, my God, we love the parade. I’m like, well, good. Hand me a check for $25,000 and we will do it. Yeah. And so, you know, people don’t like being told no, but you know, if you’re going to be successful in business or successful in nonprofit management, you got to be able to stand up for the right decisions, especially when you have the data to support it. But yeah, no, you’re not gonna be popular all the time. Like I said, there’s still people who don’t like me in town, but then, you know, that’s all right. I, my board likes me, and they like the fact that we, we have money in the

Brandon Burton 21:23
bank. Now, you’re positive now, yeah, and I can, I can see the chamber member or the community, you know, just the average citizen saying, Oh, who’s this? You know, this hot shot coming in from out of town, thinking, oh, yeah, best, you know, oh, a Denver

TJ Sullivan 21:38
guy, a Denver in a list game. I still live in Denver. I live in Denver. I come from the, you know, the horrible city down to this, you know, Bucha, like small town, and I’m ruining everything. But, yeah, no, you know, I mean, again, I think it, and I’m not trying to say it. Say, like, it’s an easy thing to do, it’s a very hard thing to do, and you hurt a lot of feelings and and people are disappointed in the whole thing. But you know, maybe you don’t kill it if it’s if the numbers much smaller, you know, take a pause. So, you know, we need to take a year off and figure this out and and especially if you just came in and a damn event is happening in two months and you’re gonna lose a bunch of money on it, my goodness, you know, like, that’s not your fault. You walked into that. But right? You know, I that’s, I’m just putting that out there as a really hard thing to deal with, because when the event is over and it lost a bunch of money, they’re going to look at you and go, you know, how did this happen? Yeah.

Brandon Burton 22:31
So are there other obstacles you had to overcome in coming in here in Parker, or, yeah, yeah. We had

TJ Sullivan 22:40
to, we had to write, we had to right size our pricing. I mean, our pricing was a disaster, you know, because, speaking of not wanting to hurt anybody’s feelings, it was a lot of fear of raising the cost of the membership. So I had to, I had to quickly, you know, do a quick survey of what other chambers in the in the county especially, were charging, and make sure we were on parity. That’s a simple way to drive in some income. And, yeah, you lose a few members. But you know, whatever, everything go everything goes up in cost. And if you work really hard to provide the value, then you know, you don’t hear that much about it. In fact, I’m raising my prices right now for 2025, by $30 at every level. And I haven’t heard of peep so

Brandon Burton 23:17
I mean, and a lot of people say $30 like, how can you do that? How it can be scary as a chamber to raise your your dues by by $30 but when you talk about $30 for the year, yeah, really, that’s what we’re crying about,

TJ Sullivan 23:30
yeah? Well, we made a big move also to moving to recurring billing. So, you know, we move all those small members that that $400 level, or whatever that everybody has, that’s the majority of their members, we move. We’ve moved about a third of them to monthly charges. And the nice thing is, it’s taken off a lot of heat on renewals, because we just they automatically renew and keep going at $42 a month, or whatever it is. So the recurring billing and taking some of the pain out of the renewal processes is another really good move to do, because, you know, most of these struggling chambers are dealing with with not enough staff to get done what needs to be done. And so if you can get people on a monthly credit card charge and get used to the cash flow implications of that, then it can be that can be a really good strategy, too. So

Brandon Burton 24:12
that also makes it easier raising dues in the future, since at a 42 a month, maybe it’s $44 a month, and you’re not going to miss $2 Yep.

TJ Sullivan 24:20
I mean, I think, you know, another thing that we did that I think was is important, is I am a big what’s the right word? I a big critic of the commission based membership person. I believe that if you’re a membership organization, doing membership right is the most important thing you do. If you don’t do that, then why are you even in business? So I believe in paying the membership person. If you’re fortunate enough to have a membership person, I’m a big believer in paying them a competitive salary and moving on, you know, like this, this commission stuff, and people rotating in and out every three months and selling bad memberships to that that aren’t even real. I mean, there’s a Yeah. I believe in having a well paid membership person. My person at Parker is well paid. She’s a rock star. She does amazing work. Everybody in town knows her. She’s She’s phenomenal. You know, I generally, I just really believe that you have to put the money where the most important things are, and that’s the people that are actually making things happen. So I spend a little bit on board development, you know, I spend money on volunteer, you know, making sure volunteers feel valuable. I kind of tend to put the money more into people than events, development, publications or things like that. I mean, I’m more into like, people because, you know, yeah, so

Brandon Burton 25:39
I’m sorry, I kind of took the head there. You’re in the people business. So that makes sense. And as far as the membership person goes, it makes sense to not have to compete among staff, and who gets credit for the deal too, the new member. Well,

TJ Sullivan 25:53
when I got to superior, it said, you know, oh, Target’s a member, and Costco is a member. But I was like, no, they’re not. Like, I can’t find anybody there. Somebody went and, like, got a $50 gift card from Target or something, and then called them a member. I’m like, No, that’s, that’s not how we’re doing things here. So, you know, when I got to, when I got to Parker, first thing I did was, was chop about 50 non members out who hadn’t paid in over a year, and we’re still sitting on the books because, you know, oh, we got to have John the the attorney as a member, I’m like, No, we don’t. If John’s not paying, John’s out, like, done, and we’re gonna add a $50 application fee. So when John wants to come back, he’s gonna pay a penalty for that. So, you know, just you gotta, you gotta come and play ball, man. You know the chamber, chamber, chamber takes some courage. Chamber takes some, uh, some uh, guts. I think if you’re going to do it right and really succeed. So, yeah,

Brandon Burton 26:43
for sure. So there’s some, some pretty fun obstacles they had to overcome. And it seems like you’re, you’re still alive, you’re, yeah, they still run you out of town yet, either. So

TJ Sullivan 26:55
no, you know, you get. Gotta get people to the table, ask them what they want, you know, celebrate new ideas, try some things. Yeah, you know, we, we first thing. First thing I’ve done at both chambers that I’ve that I’ve run, is I analyzed every single event. I looked at the money, I looked at attendance, I looked at, you know, my friend Jim Johnson from down in a down at Pearland would be very, would be very impressed with my with me talking about data, because he’s a data geek, and I am not, but, but, you know, like we looked at the basic numbers and we’re like, I’m like, why does this event make sense? It’s gone. Okay, this one is good. How can we make it better and bring five more sponsors in? So you really have to do that financial analysis of your events, not just the big ones, but even the small ones. You know, your after hours and different things. Like, could you we took one of our after hours, for example, and first of all, first thing I did was get rid of the idea of that after hours mixer has to be monthly. We do five a year now that’s it. And and we make them good, you know, we make them really fun and good, and people look forward to them. But we also get them sponsored, and we turned our November after hours into a member appreciation party with a band and then a bar and the whole thing. And we had 200 people at it. We had 200 people at it a couple weeks ago. So, yeah, you know, just fix, fix what’s not working. Inject some new ideas, take some chances. I mean, people get excited about being part of an organization that feels like it’s winning. You know, there’s nothing worse than writing a check to an organization you feel is limping along. So, you know, big part of turning a chamber around is put some wins on the board, man, and celebrate them and make sure people are excited about it, and do one good event instead of four terrible ones. You know, those kind of things. I mean, again, I know it sounds easier to say than do, but I’ve done it, you know. And it can be done. It just takes time. It’s a

Brandon Burton 28:39
really good point, though, when you consider renewing a membership and you’re like, I don’t know if this organization is even going to be around for a whole year, but yeah, here’s my check, you know. But if you see, if you see positive things happening, you see these good things, it makes it a whole lot easier to check and sponsor things so well,

TJ Sullivan 28:57
people want to affiliate with winners. I mean, I, you know, I know that sounds very I sound like a, like a basketball coach, but people want to affiliate with winners. You know, you go to any college in this country and look at the football program. If they’re winning, the stands are full. If they’re if they’re losing, they’re not, you know, this is, this is a basic here. So, yeah, yeah, I think it’s really important. And then, and then you have to put in, like, some good procedures, you know, like at the Parker chamber, I got rid of all nobody goes for free. Nobody goes for free. Board members. You know, if we have an event that costs $10 board members pay. Everybody pays, unless you’re writing a sponsorship check, everybody pays. That was, like an ethical change. I had to put in place. You know, they were used to like, Oh, I’m on the board. That means I get free this, free that, like, no more. We’re not doing that anymore. So you know, some things like that too are really important to bring the integrity up of the organization. So

Brandon Burton 29:46
yeah, I think that’s good. Just updating policies, even just the way you approach things, it takes a bold stance. It takes some courage, like you were saying, it’s not for the weak and heart, for sure. Her, but I said you’re still standing. They haven’t run you out of town yet. So I

TJ Sullivan 30:05
think a big part of it too for me, as I take care of my people, even our team is really loyal, and we all have a good time at the office. We we don’t have office hours. That’s one of the best I wish every chamber would do this. On the front of our door says, staff available by appointment, and we might open on Tuesday at eight o’clock. We might open at 10 o’clock. We our staff makes our own schedules. We give them lots of flexibility. We don’t have office hours. People sometimes will drop by at 430 and go, oh, there was nobody at the chamber. I’m like, Yeah, because we are not working at 430 on on Thursdays. You know, that’s not what we do. So you know that those kind of things also, you know, like, be more like a modern business. We, our staff doesn’t work Fridays in the office, unless we have an event. We work from home on Fridays. And boy, my staff loves that. So, yeah, you know. So we do some, you know, what are the, what are the competitive businesses out there doing? And, you know, take, take lessons from what they’re doing and replicate that, you know, so we don’t have a visitor center. That’s, thank God we don’t have a visitor center. You know, different story if you did, yeah, if you have a visitor center and you have a contract, you have to be open from this hour to this hour. Okay, that’s a whole different ball of wax, which I’ve never done. But, you know, no, we’re, we’re off running around, selling memberships, setting up sponsorships for events. You know, I’m sometimes at home putting the directory together. You know, God knows, we work where it makes sense, and we control our own schedules, and boy, that’s done wonders for staff morale and every you know, you treat people like adults, they act like adults.

Brandon Burton 31:33
I’d always say, building the team culture, but also being able to attract people where it fits our lifestyle. To be able to be able to work something like that instead of you need to be clocking in now and can’t leave until, you know, and they’ve got kids or whatever else that they got to deal with. So some of

TJ Sullivan 31:49
my board members had a tough time with with with that policy that I put in place. But I was like, Okay, well, you enjoy it. Why shouldn’t? Why shouldn’t my staff enjoy it? And, right? And, you know, yeah,

Brandon Burton 31:58
and then collect your data, and you’ve got your evidence to justify it. Yeah, we’re growing, you know, and then you can make Jim happy too. So that’s right, that’s right. Well, TJ, for the chamber leaders listening who want to take their organization up to the next level, what kind of tips or action items or just what would you encourage them to maybe try to work towards that goal of advancing to the next level?

TJ Sullivan 32:27
Well, I feel like I’m going to say something that a million people have said, but if you’re a chamber executive, you need to make sure your board is investing in your growth and development. I cannot believe how many chamber execs don’t go to things like WAC or ACCE or their State Chamber association because they’re like, oh, you know, I can’t afford a night a hotel. You know what? You got to go to your board and say, you got, you got to invest, at least in sending me to something where I can meet, interact with my peers, find out their best practices, find out what the new trends are, you know, and and, and invest in yourself and your chamber by going and learning something, you know. I, you know, like I said, I was over 50 years old when I started this chamber thing, so I felt like I was, you know, I came in with a lot of experience, but, man, I had a lot to learn about what goes on. What the hell is chamber Master, you know, all these different things. And, yeah, I went to WAC, went to ACC, asked a million questions, met some cool people, got some people that I could call on, invest in that it is the one of the best things you have to demand from your board is that they find a couple grand to let you go to something where you can learn. And if they’re not willing to do that, you know that tells you mostly what you need to know about where your board’s priorities are because, you know, there’s so much benefit. I’ve never come in, I’ve never come back from one of those conferences without an idea that just dramatically affected the income bottom line, I always come back with ideas that change, change how we do things. And can I tell you one story that’s really interesting? I went to a round table type thing at WAC one time, and everybody just went around, and the question was, What’s the best thing your chamber does? And I’m like, it was a bunch of events and a bunch of other things, and one exec, and I wish I could remember her name, I don’t think she’s in the field anymore, she said, Well, we every, every two months or whatever, we just take, you know, six or eight of our members out for lunch and just do kind of a lunch with the CEO and just casually listen to them. And I was like, Oh my God. And, and so I wrote that down and took it back, and we instituted that, and we’ve been doing that for two years, and it is hugely impacted our sponsorships and our revenue and and different things simply by going to lunch with a small group. And, uh, boy, I never would have gotten that idea if I hadn’t gone to WAC. So, you know, invest, invest in your knowledge. You know, you don’t know everything. You certainly aren’t expected to know everything. Go, go listen to people who’ve been doing this for a while. So I’m

Brandon Burton 34:51
so glad you gave that as the tip that’s really the root of why this podcast exists is, I came across so many chain. Members that their boards wouldn’t, wouldn’t budget for, you know, career development for the for the chamber exec or any of the staff. And I saw the podcast as a way to be able to share best practices that didn’t tap into their budget, right? And they get to hear from people like you that’s that give that courage to approach your board, tell them you need this. You need to develop as a leader. You need the training that’s offered at these different conferences, and it’s well worth it for the organization. So I appreciate you giving us that tip, because it’s a it resonates with me very well. The question I like asking to everybody I have on the show is, as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

TJ Sullivan 35:50
Well, again, with the answer that I think everybody’s probably saying, I think we have to be serious about advocacy. We have to become quasi lobbying organizations. If your chamber doesn’t already do that, start small, form a government affairs committee. You know, there’s a lot of chambers in every state that are killing it on government affairs. And that’s what brings the big dollars in, that’s what brings the big the big corporations, the big employers in, is when you can make something happen. We, we, I, when I came in, there was nothing. And we started a Government Affairs Committee, and in the second year, we decided to take on a ballot, a bond initiative that gave a big pay increase to the teachers in our area. We framed it as a workforce issue and and that same bond issue had failed three times in previous elections, and we got the chamber to go gung ho on it, and we got it passed. And now every teacher in Parker, you know, stops me and goes, thank you for what you all did. And when you have the teachers, man, you’re you’re doing well. So no, I think, I think, I think government affairs is the future. We’re going to our next big, huge hire, hopefully will be someone who is doing business advocacy, because that’s where that pays dividends. And so the future chamber is in advocacy and and when people say, Oh, I don’t like politics, I’m like, Well, you better learn, because you better start learning to like it and be that same center that’s that’s the big buzz phrase now is, you know, part of the chambers being the same center of a polarized society, there’s money to be made there, there’s there’s influence to be made there. And in my mind, that is the future of chambers. It’s not the networking with cheap Chardonnay. It’s, it’s, it’s going to your state representative and saying, let’s get a law passed that that’s more exciting,

Brandon Burton 37:35
yeah. And as you give that answer, I could, I know some are intimidated by the idea, but there’s ways to do advocacy that’s that’s very low barrier of entry, and just dabble in it. Get your feet wet, grow rely on your State Chamber. Rely on other chambers, regional chambers, get support there. And I think you’re right that that definitely is going to be a huge part of the future of chambers. And

TJ Sullivan 37:59
you know, if you’re not ready to take stand on issues or or take on a campaign or endorse candidates, that’s the big, scary one for everybody. You sure can be the the educational place where people go to learn about the issue. You know, you don’t have to take a stand on the new blah blah tax, but you sure can hold a town hall where you bring in people to explain it and discuss it, and that’s advocacy. That’s advocacy. So even if you’re afraid of of government and politics, there is a place for your chamber to to get noticed for making a difference in that area. So yeah,

Brandon Burton 38:33
absolutely. Well, TJ, I wanted to give you a chance to share any contact information for listeners who may want to reach out and connect with you and maybe be a lifeline if they’re at a struggling chamber right now, get some some other tips and strategies. What would be the best way for them to reach out and connect with you?

TJ Sullivan 38:50
Well, LinkedIn is easy because it’s just LinkedIn forward slash TJ, Denver, that’s easy to find me there, or I think the more fun way is on Instagram. My handle is ParkerChamberCEO, all run together. And I, you know, Instagram is fun. It’s a little little lighter, a little more fun, and I love seeing what other people are doing. So I’d say those are the two best ways to interact with me. If you’re super serious, go to LinkedIn. If you’re more, you know, light, fun and silly. Go to go to go to Instagram.

Brandon Burton 39:17
All right, we’ll get those both your accounts linked in our show notes for this episode, so make it easy to find. But and if

TJ Sullivan 39:26
I only get two new followers, I’m gonna, I’m gonna let you know, Brandon that you know, please do not generate the followership that I was hoping for as as a huge social media influencer that I am. So that’s right.

Brandon Burton 39:39
Well, TJ, this has been fun. I appreciate you carving out some time and joining us today on Chamber Chat Podcast and getting real about some of your experiences and struggles and triumphs and things that you dealt with to overcome and to be where you’re at now in your chamber career, I appreciate that and the state you’re offering to others.

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Engaging Partners in Purpose with Carl Blackstone

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Our guest for this episode is Carl Blackstone. Carl has a deep knowledge of working with small and large businesses as a well as well as professional trade associations on local, state and federal levels. Carl has served as the former manager of the State Government Relations for the South Carolina Chamber of Commerce and as a district field manager for Mark Sanford when he served in the US House, Senate representative, in addition to other community roles, currently, he serves on the board of the Association of Chamber of Commerce executives and the South Carolina State Chamber of Commerce as the President and CEO of the Columbia Chamber. Carl’s focus is creating a strategy to make and to help make the region more competitive for the next 20 years. Carl, I’m excited to have you with us today here on Chamber Chat Podcast. I’d love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the Chamber Champions who are out there listening and to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better. Well, greetings

Carl Blackstone 2:06
and from South Carolina. Great to be with you today, and thanks so much for having me. You know, this chamber world is so small. I’ve met so many folks from around the country. They’re in chambers, but I haven’t met you. I apologize, but look forward to one day, but I’m just a boring guy from the southeast. I got four daughters. They’re in college, and so I’ll be working forever. But I love what I do and enjoy it very much. But otherwise, I’m just a boring guy,

Brandon Burton 2:35
a boring guy. Yeah, I’ve got, I’ve got three daughters myself, son and three daughters. So I can, I can sympathize with you a little bit. It’s great, but, yeah, we’ll be, we’ll be working a long time. That’s right. Well, Carl, tell us a little bit about the Columbia chamber. Give us an idea of the size, staff, budget, scope of work to kind of set the stage for our discussion.

Carl Blackstone 2:56
So we’ve been around. Were found in 1902 and so we’ve been around for 125 years or so. We have we’re mid sized chamber. We’ve got a staff of about 15. We’ve got a budget little two, two and a half million dollars, and about 12, 1300 partners in our under the umbrella Columbia as a whole is capital city, smack dab in the middle of the great state of South Carolina. Metropolitan Area is a little less than a million people. It’s because it’s a state government town, capital city, we have the University of South Carolina two blocks from my office. It’s been somewhat of a different place for businesses, because everybody knows it’s a government town, and the government mentality has been very strong here for years, and so when I I’ve been here for 10 years as the CEO. I’m not didn’t grow up through chambers. I worked at the State Chamber and and did lobbying work for the State Chamber years ago, but I didn’t really understand chambers, and that was a State Chamber, not a local chamber. And so when I found myself in this position, I’m like, holy cow, it’s a new world, and I’ve learned a ton. But the hardest thing we’ve had to do is really change the mentality of Columbia businesses. Say, Yes, we are government town. That is a positive, that is a wonderful thing, great attributes to have for recruiting businesses. But that’s not the only thing we are. We have great companies here, we need to be a little bit more pro business and think differently on how we approach things. And so at that time, 10 years ago, the we weren’t doing well. The city was not growing. We’re pretty stagnant, quite frankly, over the last 30 years. And that’s combination of the. Poor leadership, poor planning. It literally was acting from the business community, quite frankly, that that had created systemic problems that we needed to address. And so we needed more business minded people representing us on the city county level. We needed just to be more aware of what was going on and engaged in the political process, which helps. I mean, if you think about what government does on a day to day basis, they can help you, hurt you, and if you learn the business, we have a significant as a whole. Everybody thinks the southeast is got cheap labor, cheap taxes, cheap land, everything. But in reality, that’s not the case, especially in capital cities. Capital Cities are unique, and we have to high taxes, and it keeps businesses from looking to this area. And so we’ve had a challenge over the last 10 years, but I think we’re in a good spot now, which is pretty exciting.

Brandon Burton 6:02
Yeah, I can see where being in a capital city could definitely have its its benefits, but some challenges along with it, and it’s something that piqued my interest is when you you’d mentioned some of the challenges when you came into this position 10 years ago, to kind of boil down to apathy from the business community. I thought that’s a that’s an interesting approach. Could you talk a little bit more to that?

Carl Blackstone 6:24
Yeah, well, a lot of the folks that were engaged Jamie, we had a stagnant board. We I, I’ve said it over and over, so this is not first time. So we were male, pale and stale, yeah, we were a functioning board that was doing the same things we’ve always done, and it was, in my opinion, wasn’t healthy. We weren’t creating an environment where new people wanted to come right?

Brandon Burton 6:50
Yep, it sounds like your chamber was a the traditional Chamber of 10 years ago. The male pale and stale, yeah. And so

Carl Blackstone 6:59
we were, we were, we’re a traditional chamber, but traditional in the sense that 35 years ago we split economic development out. We’d also we’re a chamber that does not have the local tourism industry at all. That’s a whole separate group. And my predecessors, and there were reasons why they did it. I wasn’t around sorts. I don’t want to criticize them for it, but the long term impact was, what is a chamber that does not have economic development, that does not have tourism? What do you do? And how do you make yourself not relevant? But how do you find how do you make yourself essential to a community that was really down on itself and not grow it. It was stagnant. And so it was interesting back in 1950 Richmond, Virginia and Raleigh, North Carolina, Charlotte, Atlanta, Columbia, Austin, Texas, we’re all about the same size. And then you fast forward to 1980 in Richmond, Raleigh, Columbia, three capital cities in these southern states were all the same size, and all of a sudden, now Columbia hadn’t changed. The same size they were in 1980 and Richmond and Raleigh are totally different. Not that I want to be I don’t think anybody in Colombia wants to be those other cities. It’s how do we attract and retain talent here in Columbia, and how do we make ourselves a draw? And a lot of the things that we were doing systematically were just not good for business, high taxes, not innovating and really not doing a whole lot to to change it. We were doing everything that we were doing, and so our hope, my hope, and you know, the team that we we have, was like, alright, we can, we can be the best Columbia. We want to be the best Columbia, but we don’t have to sit and do things just because it’s the way we’ve always done it. And it was maybe two months into my 10 years, like, Why? Why are we doing this? Why are, why are we doing this event? Or why are we sending stuff up? Well, that’s the way we’ve always done it. Yeah, that’s got to stop

Brandon Burton 9:12
the wrong answer, right?

Carl Blackstone 9:15
Hear that again and but changing the leadership, and then also you gotta have, if you want to attract new businesses, they gotta feel like they’re have a route to be participating. They gotta be participatory. We need them involved, but we needed to. We need to change. We need to have a board that reflects the community, both not just demographically, but also we needed different. You know, at one time, we had a board of, you know, our idea was diversity was had six different bankers sitting around the boardroom. Well, that’s not, yes, we diversity in banks, but we don’t have diversity of. Thought diversity of industry, and so we’ve been very, very deliberate in making sure that our community feels like we’re reflective of them, but but more importantly, that we’re actually we appreciate in their ideas and their thoughts. And how do we be a little bit more progressive?

Brandon Burton 10:18
Yeah, I like those thoughts and your comments around the you know, seeing the other similar sized cities grow and develop in that time period and and to have Columbia stay about the same as it was in the 80s, anytime something stays stagnant, you know, life kind of ceases to happen, right? Things start to die off a little bit. And to be able to invigorate that again, get it going. That’s that’s the key, to be able to keep it. Don’t let things become stagnant, right, right? Yeah, keep

Carl Blackstone 10:48
that part and but that’s where the chamber can really, is that the Chamber’s responsibility by itself? No, absolutely not. There are no, uh, single person that can do anything. And so you got to work with your city leadership and your business leadership and and the triple part, I mean, the triple PS really do work, not just in development, but also with ideas and how to get things moving along. And so we’re in a different spot than we were 10 years ago. It’s pretty amazing. You know, our growth in South Carolina has been substantial since the late 90s and early 2000s in Charleston and Greenville and south of Charlotte’s coming this way. And so we just have not been able to capitalize. But we finally been able to do so, and we’re seeing significant four or five times annual growth of what we saw two or three years ago, which is nice.

Brandon Burton 11:44
That’s awesome. Well, that’s a great setup for our conversation today, giving us kind of that the background on Columbia, how things are sitting, you know, the role of the chamber right now in Columbia and and as we focus our conversation today, we’ll focus on some of these maybe more unique approaches, you know, ways you guys approach things versus maybe the way some other chambers approach things and and I hope that there’s some some key elements out of this conversation that others can take and scale to their chamber and and be able to maybe implement some of these things to invigorate life in their communities as well. And we’ll dive in much deeper on this conversation, since we get back from this quick break.

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All right, Carl, we’re back, as I mentioned before the break, we’re going to focus most of our conversation today around kind of the the unique approaches that the Columbia chamber takes to your chamber work, versus maybe that of what some other chambers do. And in your explanation and background of the Columbia chamber, I think you’ve hinted on on several of these things, from the business apathy and kind of changing that mindset to the board makeup. But what are some of these other approaches or mindsets that you guys are taking there in Columbia to really see some of that growth that you guys are seeing and and to maybe energize some other Chambers as well, and kind of spark some ideas for them.

Carl Blackstone 16:22
Listen, let me just say we are not unique, and we’re also, I ain’t a smart guy. I want to set the record on this straight, because what I what I did when I got here was I had the privilege of having fresh eyes. Fresh Eyes is a gift. When you come in to an organization and you bring or whenever I hire new people, is really dig in with them to see what they see, because we get blinders on. And I guess my biggest fear is complacency, and complacency is a cancer. It’s a form of cancer that can erode an organization. And so I ask and spend a lot of time with new board members or new staff members or new partners. Say, what do we need to be doing differently? What do you see that we’re doing, that we’re missing? But so being always trying to find new ways to do things, I think, is critical for any organization. The problem we have in chamber world is we always underfunded. We have few two staff, and the easiest thing to do is what we’ve always done. Creativity takes time and energy, and you have to spend hours talking to folks, and that’s hard, but I think the end result is a better product for your partners, and we’re seeing that today. How do we continue to morph, even though we’ve had a good run the last three or four years? What we need to do differently? And I think taking steps back and really sending surveys to our partners and asking right questions, being on the phone and talking to them all the time or all right, this is good. Is this working? But their engagement is critical. And however we can find, I can’t say we have figured it out yet at all, but what I’m we are striving every day to make sure that we stay in front of the curve and businesses, you know, the chambers are in these unique spot because we have to understand politics, we have to understand the business and economics and accounting and law and all these Other things that we have to think about on behalf of our business partners, but we didn’t go to school for any of this stuff, right? I mean, we’re we’re learning on the streets like everybody else, but we need to lean on our partners to figure out what they need and and for us, in South Carolina, we’re seeing this huge post COVID surge of population and businesses coming in and great what’s our biggest issue? It’s workforce. How do we help our our partners? How do we help train and think about the workforce next week, next year, five years, 10 years. So it’s getting the mindset of, let’s being a community builder. Let’s think about thinking long term strategies on how we can be a player in not just the here and now, but later. It’s tough, and a lot of times the market throws a curve at us, and we’re not expecting it. We’ve just gotta alter our thought. I hate the word pivot after COVID, COVID, but I’ll use that word. We’ve gotta be always ready to think differently, which is, which is a struggle, but for us today, here and now, uh. We landed a very large OEM in Columbia that’s going to be producing a automobile, and they need 4000 workers by next year. And how do we ramp up? Because we know when a new new shiny object comes to town, you’re going to see folks leaving one job to go to another, and we got to find the workforce. Really dig in to think differently. On working with our local school districts, our state government for incentive purposes, on retraining folks, getting more high school kids into the workforce, workforce, work based learning opportunities for our kids. It’s a whole new world. We weren’t thinking about this four years ago.

Brandon Burton 20:45
Yeah, and there’s, there’s a lot of focus right now among chambers on workforce. I mean, it seems like you mentioned that P word pivot. You know, I think we can go the rest of our life without having any unprecedented pivots happening in our life, right? I mean, at least not calling them those, but yeah, to be able to see where these needs are. And there’s been, you know, this, this mass exodus of the workforce. And when you are looking for that growth and revitalization and trying to spark that energy into the workforce, where do you find them? How do you how do you retain talent that you already have in the community, and especially when everybody’s, you know, kind of vying for this attention as well that it is a it is a unique problem, and chambers are poised perfectly to address it. So

Carl Blackstone 21:38
addresses one thing is we’ve also got to embrace what our partners need, and they see us as a resource. And big companies typically don’t need us to help them with their workforce issue. I mean, they’ve got resources, they’ve got staff, but it’s a second tier, third tier, companies that struggle so much, and they need us because they don’t have the depth and that they don’t have the understanding of all the things that go into it, and so to be a resource for them, but also learning from our larger partners to say, Hey, how are y’all doing things that we can help teach others to do? It’s it’s not again. We’re not creating new products. We’re just trying to be dot connectors and say, Hey, how can we learn from one teach another? And it really helps the overall community.

Brandon Burton 22:31
That is an interesting thought, because I’ve heard a lot of chambers talk about when that big factory opens up, a big, major employer comes to town and they’re wanting to know, you know, we need, like you said, 4000 jobs filled. Can you guys help supply that? But in reality, those big companies come in and those jobs will flock to them, but they’re going to leave their current position. So that second tier is really it’s like, yes, we can help you find the workforce there, but you go to work overtime trying to find the workforce to fill the backside. So

Carl Blackstone 23:02
it is truly Robin chambridge. Is Robin Peter to pay Paul. And it’s the mindset, all right, understand that those are, there’s going to be fluctuations, but we need to that’s 4000 jobs. Doesn’t seem like a lot to some people that are, you know, in the Dallas area, that’s growing that many people in a month or whatever, for us, think about housing and the impact it has on the housing, on the track, on the schools. What does that if we bring in 4000 new people, is that 6000 kids we’ve got to start educating, and where are we going to put them? So the overall thought process we have to be we’re in a unique position. All chambers are that there’s no other entity that can bring the private sector with the public sector to sit down and find opportunities and and long term strategies on a lot of these issues. You know, we asked for years and years, we relied on government to fix problems, and we’re asking elected officials to do things more than we’ve ever asked them to do, but we as a chamber can provide a lot of resources to help assist find folks that are experts in their field, that work in your community, and sit them down. Let’s let’s have dialog. Yeah, but these community problems are long term. They’re not going away tomorrow, but we got to be thinking about them today, and building those relationships and having those relationships with both public and private partners really are beneficial.

Brandon Burton 24:51
Yeah. So the thought keeps coming back to me about the comment about the apathy of business owners and your comment about elected. Officials just now, elected officials definitely have their place, right? I mean, it’s important to work with them and to have the advocacy approach and everything, but they don’t have the same kind of skin in the game as the business does on Main Street, right? Who’s relying on this to feed their family, to for their employees to feed their families? They’ve got skin in the game. So to be able to get those businesses engaged in helping to find, you know, those the the employment, to help solve some of these problems that have to pop up in communities, to really rely on that business community, I think, is the key. And we’re chambers, help convene, and you’re convening with the electric the elected officials and everything as well. But, really leaning on those that have the biggest to lose and the most to gain, really by the success in the community. So I think you hit the nail on the head, whether you meant to or not. I don’t know.

Carl Blackstone 25:53
Well, the hardest thing to do is when you hit apathy. The apathetic feeling yes is re engagement and finding hope and that things can get better. And it’s, you know, if you’re a small business that has 10 employees and you’re barely eking out a paycheck to very worried about meeting payroll every two weeks, it’s like, All right, do I really have time to think about regulatory relief. I feel it every day. I see it. I have to have staff to deal with it, but they don’t have to. You’ve gotta really educate them on how we can make things better. They gotta see the light at the end of the tunnel. And so rebuilding is tough, maintaining is tougher, but I promise is better than the

Brandon Burton 26:46
alternative. Yeah. So how do you what’s your approach with your partners, as you guys call them there in Columbia, what’s your approach with partners to help get them engaged, to to step away from that apathy and to really buy in? I know you had mentioned before surveying and listening to them, seeing what their needs are and and I know other chambers are going to hear that and say, nobody opens our surveys, nobody opens the emails. So how do you do that? How do you get that feedback? How do you get them to step away from the apathy and to really lean into that engagement? Well,

Carl Blackstone 27:18
you have to have multiple redundancies, right? I mean, there’s the open rate on those surveys are pretty abysmal, but it has to be done at different levels. So we try to have meetings every year or every month that are opportunities to engage the public sector. Private sector have not just talking about politics, but projects that are coming and then making sure that we’re asking questions while we’re with them, have open dialog times to for them to voice their opinions. What’s going on, what’s good, what’s bad, but at all of our events, our goal is to ask questions of what we need to be, what do we need to know to help you all? And as soon as you start that dialog, and you do it over and over again, they actually start to believe it, which is good. That’s what we want, but it does. It’s not a just mention it one time and expect a flood of phone calls or emails. No, that doesn’t happen, but it’s gotta be built in to the process of every month, our annual our monthly meetings, our quarterly meetings, small I mean, you know, but also you gotta put your money where your mouth is if you really are trying to focus on small business, alright, let’s create a new group dialog, just for small business. What do y’all want to hear? What do y’all need to do? Let’s just focus on the area that needs focusing and that’s helped, that served us well. The other is, and this is the hard thing about I’ve got the best staff, best team in the world. I love they are fantastic. But we also, day in and day out are in a bubble. Yeah, they don’t have to go in and clock in clock out, and they don’t have to deal with regulatory issues, and they don’t have to deal with a lot of stuff. But we think we do and or more importantly, we think we know what our partners want. And quite honestly, you know, the worst thing we can do is think for ourselves. We need engagement, and that’s the key. And I remind our board this all the time. Look, we need y’all to tell us, don’t expect us to be you know, what did Ronald Reagan say? I’m here with the government. I’m here to help. Yeah? I can’t pretend to to know exactly what the issues are in a business. I need them to tell us and so, but we got to have that open dialog. We got to it’s it’s repetitive. I spent hours on the phone, but it’s important to to make sure that we have. People that we can call or give us straight answers to what we need to be working with and making sure that we’re providing that ROI

Brandon Burton 30:06
to our partners. Yeah, if I could summarize it, I’d say just stay curious on what those needs are for your your partners and and you mentioned, you know, you’re not going to get that flood of phone calls or emails, which is probably a good thing, because I wouldn’t really be sustainable either you couldn’t address them all last time. You might it might help in seeing some trends, but being curious in those personal interactions, if you’re at a luncheon, or if you’re, you know, visiting some members as you talk to them, what are some of the challenges you’re facing? And have it be a genuine conversation versus just greeting them, you know, thanks for coming to the luncheon. Yeah, you can elevate that that short conversation so much higher by being curious.

Carl Blackstone 30:45
Well, folks think you know if, if they get the first phone call from me, and I only call them once a year when their renewals up, right? I mean, there’s not a whole lot of authenticity in that call, right? I mean, they know exactly what I’m up to, so it’s important to have multiple contacts just to know, hey, we really do care. We really are inquisitive. We want to know how we can be helpful. And those, again, it’s all relationships and building out those relationships are are better for us as a chamber, but long term, it truly helps not only the chamber, but it helps our retention. It helps across the board. Yeah, absolutely.

Brandon Burton 31:26
Well, Carl, as we begin to wrap things up, I wanted to to ask for the chamber listening. Who’s wanting to try to take their chamber up to the next level. You’ve shared some great insights. But do you have any you know actionable, maybe tips or action items that you can share with those listening to maybe try implementing at their chamber to spark some life and step away from the apathy.

Carl Blackstone 31:52
Well, I think they’re different communities. Each you meet one chamber, you meet one chamber, right? Everybody’s different. Every community is different. But I think when you find we’re not good at everything, we don’t know everything, and so I think we try hard to stay in contact with partners, ask them what we need to be doing. I don’t have a silver bullet. I’m just making this up as I go quite honestly, but I think over time, people see us as a resource. They that they need, and they feel like, if we don’t know the answer, it’s okay, but we’re gonna go figure it out and try to find the answer. And I think companies and people are very happy with that answer. It may not work for us if we’ll try new things. We’re not saving the world, we’re not curing cancer, we’re not we’re not doing brain surgery or anything like that. We try different things all the time. It works. It works. It doesn’t. It doesn’t. It could be a timing issue, just could be whatever. But don’t be afraid to try new things. Don’t be afraid to ask questions. Don’t Don’t hesitate, because the end of the day, we’re going to be doing this tomorrow, and we’ll try something else. So I, I think too many people try not to take risks. I like taking risks even little old nonprofit that we run. I think it’s, it’s worth, worth doing, yeah, and then again, it goes back to my biggest fear, which is complacency. So taking risks helps alleviate a little bit of that complacency.

Brandon Burton 33:34
Absolutely get to find some comfort in the discomfort, right? That’s right. So you mentioned that, you know, you’re just trying to figure it out as you go, but I’d say that the key element to that is taking the feedback. So as you implement new things, you’re you’re being staying curious, getting that feedback and that that tells you that’s your your guide as to what’s working, what’s not. Well, I like asking everyone I have on the show as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the purpose of chambers going forward?

Carl Blackstone 34:07
I you know, I think the best years of chambers are yet to come. I recognize them. Why they were created years ago, and the value that proposition that they’ve offered in years to years have just been B to B, and I don’t think that goes away. What I do think, though, as businesses in this environment that we’re in right now, political, environment, world, environment, whatever chambers, have this unique opportunity to really help define their communities for generations, and what the stuff we’re working on today may not come to fruition for 10 to 1520, years, but being at the table and helping solve these critical problems are important, and there’s no other group, if you look around, who’s going to be there? Well, it’s got to be the chambers, and it may be uncomfortable at times. It may. Be not fun, but at the end of the day, is it necessary? And businesses want to go and relocate, or they want to flourish where they can feel like they have they want to live work and play. Their employees want to live work and play in a community that’s vibrant, that is in an atmosphere that can make money, but they have a great quality of life, and so chamber is going to have to be at the tip of the spear in creating some of these long term strategies in their communities to fulfill the needs of business. So it’s going to be a fun challenge for the next few years. I’m excited. It’s new, different. Every day is different, so it’ll be fun. But I think looking at your book of work today knowing that it’s got to change, what can you live without? What Can You Live Without doing and what? What’s the best ROI for your partners, your numbers, or whatever? That’s what’s going to have to drive you. So, yeah, what

Brandon Burton 36:07
I find super interesting about chamber work is it is never ending. You know, once you solve one problem, there’s always going to be another, another thing to address. So never Is it the work of a chamber going to be complete. So job security there. So well. Carl, for listeners who may want to reach out and connect with you, what would be the best way that you’d have them reach out and contact if they had any questions we talked about you can hit our columbiachamber.com

Carl Blackstone 36:36
or cblackstone@columbiachamber.com we’ll get right to me. So love to if I’ve ever, if you ever have a question, if I can be a resource, let me know

Brandon Burton 36:45
that’s perfect. We’ll get that in our show notes for this episode. But appreciate you taking some time to be with us today, here on chamber tap podcast, share some of the approaches you guys have taken and really, you know, diving into engaging with your partners and helping them step away from that apathy that’s that’s so critical and keeping the work of chambers moving forward. So thanks.

Carl Blackstone 37:06
Yeah, absolutely, don’t be afraid to reach out. My My was reluctant when I first got to the Chamber of reaching out and asking for help, and call it pride, call whatever it was, but the best resources for me are other chambers, and we love the R & D working chamber world, reuse and duplicate, so embrace that as well, but find a mentor, find a friend at another chamber and and pick their brain. It’s a huge help.

Brandon Burton 37:35
I love that plug. That’s why this podcast exists. To your R & D. Well, thank you, Carl, this has been great, and I appreciate spending time with you today, and for you carving out some time to talk with us, this has been wonderful.

Carl Blackstone 37:47
Thank you. I’ve enjoyed it. Thanks.

Brandon Burton 37:50
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Fixing Holes During a Storm with Jennifer Hanson

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Our guest for this episode is Jennifer Hanson. Jennifer is a visionary community leader and marketing professional with more than a decade of experience in nonprofit management, business development and event coordination as executive director of the Boone County Chamber of Commerce, Jennifer has transformed the organization into a thriving force for for positive change. In just two years, she has grown membership, strengthened partnerships and revitalized events programs, and making the 112 year old chamber once again, a dynamic hub for collaboration, innovation and fun. Jennifer’s passion for empowering communities took root early in her career through her involvement at with the Omaha chamber, where she championed for young professionals in workforce and leadership development, her ability to reimagine possibilities and take decisive action was defined, has defined her career, whether she’s launching an award winning events, building volunteer programs or helping organizations rediscover their purpose, grounded by her servant leadership, Jennifer is dedicated to building authentic connections, fostering growth and leaving a meaningful impact where God has placed her. Jennifer, I’m excited to have you with us today here on chamber chat podcast. I’d love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the chamber champions who are out there listening, and to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better. Well, yeah,

Jennifer Hanson 2:38
well, thanks for having me. I really, really appreciate being in here. And certainly, as you mentioned in my bio there, I born and raised in Omaha, and so as long although I’ve had last 14 years as a stay at home mom before, before joining the chamber, two years ago, I it’s been really great to be able to think back about all the good work happening at the Omaha chamber, and be able to bring those those tools and that sense of encouragement and to to Boone, Iowa and so, yeah, I thanks again for having me, and I’m excited to for our conversation. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 3:16
absolutely. Well, before we dive into the topic. Why don’t you take a few minutes and tell us a little bit more about the Boone County Chamber, just to give us an idea of the perspective you’re coming from with the size of the chamber staff, scope of work, budget, that sort of thing, to kind of set the stage, sure, sure.

Jennifer Hanson 3:35
So the Boone County Chamber is a county wide Regional Chamber, and we are very excited that this, this 2025, is, frankly, is the year of scaling up for us. So when I came on board, we were just at around 200 to 15 or so in membership. There was an executive director, who was over Boone County, the economic growth as well as the chamber. And then I was brought in for events and communication. Soon after I jumped in, I realized that they were that might that executive director was what didn’t necessarily want to stay in that space, and had always wanted to open up a business and and so very good for him, Mike. Mike’s done a great job, and is a wonderful cater and and now business owner and with a with an additional bakery and such. But ultimately that led me to take this on. And so I stayed on as the executive director of the chamber, which allowed economic growth to find other services. But ultimately, this last over the last two years, we’ve now grown to a little over almost about 265 members and in a population of 12. 1000 we’re still on our way and back to maybe where this chamber was in its heyday in the 90s. But we are excited for for the growth. So when I came on board, when my after Mike left, I was the only, I was the only full time person, and I still necessarily only full time person on the chamber side. We had a part time a part time book bookkeeper. Now going into 2025, we have myself as the chamber director. We’ve we’ve got a main street director as a full time person, and we have a almost full time person who’s doing operations and our bookkeeping and office management, and we have a part time Member Services person. So going into 2025 we’re very excited to see a lot of growth taking place in our organization, and of course, in our membership. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 5:58
it’s fun to see the growth happening, and that means you guys are doing some things right. You know, you’ve got some energy. You’re doing things right to be able to see that growth. But our our topic, we’ve titled this episode fixing holes during a storm, and I’ve heard the phrase before of building an airplane as you fly it, so I imagine this is going to be pretty similar to that, but we’ll we’ll dive into this discussion as soon as we get back from this quick break.

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All right, Jen, we’re back, as I mentioned before the break, our conversation today, we’re talking about fixing holes during a storm, and see you come into the chamber. I imagine there’s some things that you’ve been hard at work at over. Your tenure there so far to be able to see the growth in membership and staff. But tell us what you mean with this phrase of fixing holes during a storm.

Jennifer Hanson 10:10
Yeah. So I, when I came on board, as I mentioned, I came in under a the current executive director who was on both sides of the island, on economic growth, as well as the chamber side. And yet, though the work of economic growth had been had been essentially given to an outside organization to to to do. And so Mike was kind of the director by proxy, and wanting to keep frankly, because that was the role on the county side. So when I came on board, I knew and I loved chamber work from having my experience in the Omaha chamber I had my I had my marketing background and advertising and so plus the relationships I built while I’ve been here in Burton the last 12 years or so, so I had a lot kind of that I could bring to the table on the chamber side. And so while economic growth would be something that I’m certainly happy to learn more about, and I’ve very excited about the growth in in that space here in Burton, let alone County. You know, tax law wasn’t necessarily my my jam, so I was happy to take on the chamber side. And frankly, I realized too it was bonkers that one person would be kind of responsible for both sides of this coin. So anyway, I don’t, as I said, How to get myself in any trouble, but ultimately I recognized the need to serve our members, and so I in me coming on board, allowed economic growth to continue on with with that outside organization, and they’ve done great things with it. However, we were still coming under we’re just trying to revitalize, frankly, not just the organization, but the relationships they’re in. So over the last even five years or so, I say that the chamber so was in its heyday in the 90s, probably early. 2000s too. Where we were, had membership upwards in the 400 mark, and over the last, gosh, these last, you know, 24 years or so, it’s just decreased. And what I heard over and over again is we just don’t know what the chamber does. We just don’t know what value you bring to us. And so I had to rebuild the value of what we were going to offer members, and building that back up and the programming and the events and so on so forth, while at the same time, while at the same time rebuilding those relationships with those individuals, with the elected officials and with the organizations that we had hurt over the years, either by just just letting their their business go to the wayside. We just weren’t promoting them. Well, we weren’t using our tools for their benefit. Or in some cases, we had some, I had some time with leaders that had been told, you know, had had had hard conversations with previous leadership in my organization. So ultimately, laying the laying the space for for for venting, for just really just sharing how you know where, where we at, and how can we get better, knowing that it wasn’t my, my doing, but it was an opportunity now to rebuild. And so you can’t rebuild unless you’re, you’re allowing that space to let, let all of it kind of air out. So anyway, I say that we’re building the house, or, you know, and and patching up the the holes in our own ceiling where, you know, now I was a state. I was a full, you know, one full time person here trying to rebuild the team, kind of identifying what, what we needed. Certainly I needed help, but just kind of when and where and how, while at the same time making absolutely positively remarkable, it just I go back having some strong and hard conversations with folks that had had been done really dirty in the past. And so in any case, I really wanted to to do that for the sake of what a good chamber can do and and giving us the opportunity to do it. Yeah.

Brandon Burton 14:57
And unfortunately, yeah, this is some. Thing that I’ve seen in several communities where a new executive comes in and needs to patch some holes, mend some relationships, build the trust, back up of the value, create the value proposition and communicate that well to the business community of why the Chamber’s here. What do you know? How can we make things right with you? You know, versus you know, what ever had happened before? And it’s amazing to me too, over like you said, 24 years, we’ll say, you know, some people hanging on to some of these grudges, or, you know, ill will. And for others, 24 years goes by like that. You know, see, you blink and it’s gone. So, yeah, following that, that analogy you had mentioned being able to let some things air out, and, you know, before you can really do the the patching of those holes, you got to identify, you know, where the leak is, where the problem is, let it air out and let some healing happen before you can really go back to work to repairing the whole situation. So the analogies tends to fit pretty well there. Talk to us on the positive side, as you’ve been out visiting with members, talking about their situations. What are some of these positives that you’ve seen come out of this? As you’ve been able to listen to people and let their voices be heard and and then see, you know, to solve their their issues. Well,

Jennifer Hanson 16:34
I think that for because I was such a small team, I we knew from the get go from working with the board who was, by the way, a very engaged, very active board. So I think that was very helpful, just on the offset that they knew I was a, I was essentially a one person in this space, and so they knew they were going to have to be really engaged with alongside me, but being able to then bring on more collaborators into the work. So I I’ve always seen chambers, really since, since my time back in Omaha, as just this one, as that spot, being a a foundational, a foundational organization serving our community in a very positive way, and yet, though, in a very fundamental way too, where it’s, you know, it’s networking, and it’s, it’s promoting, it’s the events that we host aren’t, aren’t for our sake. It’s for the for the benefit of our of the of the attendees, of the members and the community people that are there. So I see the Chamber’s role is to really be a foundational approach to community development. And so when we don’t do that well, or we don’t have people that that that see us doing that, you know, they see, you know, maybe they see the bigger headlines coming out of our organization, which may or may not always be positive, but they it’s it takes the the focus off of where it should be, which is on your members. And so I really enjoyed the opportunity to really start from the from from the ground, and say, I know, I know my vision for the for a chamber, and yet, though we have a long way to go to get there, so certainly the opportunity to say, Okay, we’ve got to get at least on this, on this solid footing, but then having that relationship built, I can, I can call back to those folks and say, Hey, there, here’s an opportunity for you to, you know, can you help me with this? Can you, you know, is there a place where, where we can work together on on this goal or that goal? And so there’s so many more people that I’ve been able to get to know on a such deeper, more a deeper level, than, than than I had before. And I think too, it helped that prior to me walking into this space, I was a stay at home mom. I got to know a lot of the community members by just being a volunteer at different things. I served in Kids Children and Family ministry a few years ago. And so I got to know a lot of people in the community, not necessarily in this space, right, and let alone in this organization. So I got to know a lot of just who they are and what they what they kind of want in life, and what have you and their families and such, before getting into the space where I’m now calling them and asking, you know, hey, let’s chat about what what happened those number of years ago and see if we can’t be a a be able to serve you once again. So a lot of times those conversations were you. It wasn’t necessarily a cold call in in that way, yeah, the good news is, is that, yes, over the last two years, it’s, you know, we’ve really been able to regrow, regrow our members, and bring us back to a more stable financial picture, certainly the relationships we’ve had and we’ve been able to build on with our elected officials and other and whether it be our county or our city, the communities that surround us and really be able to, again, start from the ground, but then Make an active an active work to move forward.

Brandon Burton 20:42
I love that. So what you were talking about? So first of all, it gives a great perspective when you know these people from you know, say, your your previous, you know, before this chamber life, right? So in their personal life and what, what’s meaningful to them, but you’d also before that mentioned about engaging with these individuals that you’re having these conversations with, and being able to have opportunities to reach out to them and say, Can you help me with this project? Can you help me with what we’re doing here? And that engagement, I think, really helps to drive ownership in the outcome of the situation, and I see it as sharing the vision. So you’re sharing the vision with with these Chamber members, potential members, people you’re trying to mend relationships with, and then you’re filling the bus. You’re getting people to take seats on the bus that want to go where the Chamber’s going, and engaging them along the way. And that, I think that’s the way to that’s the way to grow it. That’s the way to grow and build it and and get people to to feel like they’re a part of something special.

Jennifer Hanson 21:46
Absolutely, and there has been a lot, there’s been incredible opportunities that have come here, here to build lately. And I think people are seeing the individuals and organizations both really working hard to to bring our community forward, our region forward, for that matter, and I think that it’s for a long time, just we’ve been in this cave, and I think that, yes, our organization, unfortunately played a part of that, but ultimately we have the from the city, from the county, from the chambers, from the hospital to the having all of these entities really working now together in a completely different way than we did, and in a refresh way to with, In some cases, new leadership. In some cases, not. In any case, it’s just been we’ve really made a concerted effort to come around the same table and say, we’ve, you know, we have to work together in order to make this stuff happen. And it, it doesn’t, it almost doesn’t necessarily matter who’s doing what, because we’re all essentially going to be foundational behind the scenes entities, and it’s going to be our community that that benefits from it and and should have the spotlight on it, right?

Brandon Burton 23:08
And you’re just, you’re convening all the people together doing doing that work so

Jennifer Hanson 23:15
well, Jennifer, exactly where the chain. That’s

Brandon Burton 23:18
right. That’s right, it’s one of those C’s as we shift gears. Here a little bit, I wanted to ask for the listeners. Who are? They may be in a similar boat as you are, and trying to patch some holes as they go, but regardless, trying to take their chamber up to the next level. What kind of tip or action item might you share with somebody listening who’s trying to achieve that goal?

Jennifer Hanson 23:49
I thought about this question quite a bit, and I think that if you’re if you’re already in a chamber role, I would say, first recognize the incredible impact you can have if you so choose. I think that people want to see an organization that’s purpose is to be servant to have servant leadership and to be there for to help them right, and to help them grow and achieve big things and and to make the big headlines right. And so I think that the Chamber being at that intersection between our community at large and our business community, and just being being right there in that center spot, you have an incredible opportunity to do some big things. I think understanding that fully first and then leaning into whatever you’ve got in front of you to serve and to have that being your focus. I think we can, we can do incredible things then as individuals, but even as we’re going. If that’s where your heart’s at, that it’s going to show through. And if there’s, if there are tough conversations you have to have with folks, or even just, gosh, hard people that you have to deal with in order to get to even build that foundation before you can grow. I invite you to lean in on that, knowing that you’ve got you know you know your value, you know your organization’s value, and and what can be on the other side of this conversation. And so yes, difficult people or difficult situations are are part of our world. And unfortunately, we’re all we’re not. None of us are, are perfect. So understanding, though, that that they’re going being in their community, being in your sphere, they they can either be a hindrance to your work or a helper. And that ultimately, I think, if we can get to where, what goals they have, and the some of the shared opportunities there, you’re going to find, more often than not, that they want to help make great things happen. They just don’t know if they can do that with you. So finding opportunities to do great things together, even if it’s not necessarily, maybe what you know your your number one focus is, or whatever, but finding small ways you guys can work together. I think ultimately we’ll break down those barriers.

Brandon Burton 26:24
Yeah, the challenges will always be there. But I love what you said about recognizing the impact that you can make, and if as an organization, as a chamber, if you can recognize the impact, the connections, all the good that you can do in your community, believe it, and go after it. Go, go get it. So I love that. Well, as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Jennifer Hanson 26:54
Well, I think kind of going back on that. I think that it’s chambers understanding what their purpose is to be that that foundational spot in the middle of their community where they’re connected to the business community at large, leaders therein, certainly understanding that their chamber should be for the CEO as much as it should be there for the the guy across the desk or the worker bee, who’s the waitress in the restaurant, what have you. It does not matter who they are within that organization, they have an opportunity to grow because of the Chamber’s work. So whether it being networking events or leadership development opportunities, workforce development initiatives, things like that, all of those opportunities are there for for the entire community, you know, and certainly we, are a member organization and what have you, but really making sure that folks understand that the chamber is there for their entire organization, not just that C suite, who you might have as your contact. So I think that’s where we could make our biggest impact, is if we are value across the board, knowing full well that the CEO has has a completely different set of needs, you know, than than the waitress at the restaurant, but being able to show off the value for those different individuals in different places. And then I think, though just understanding the the quantity and quality of service you can provide in this space, and recognizing that the spotlight should be on your community. And if you’ve got a positive community, or then you have a great chamber in your in your town, I think if you can rest in that. Um, you’ll it will be incredible for your for your organization, as well as for your region. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 29:10
absolutely. Well, Jennifer, this has been great having you on the show. I wanted to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for listeners who might want to reach out and commiserate or learn more about how you’re doing things there in Boone County. What would be the best way for someone to reach out and connect?

Jennifer Hanson 29:29
Yeah, so I’m on LinkedIn, certainly I’m on Facebook there. I’d love to have you follow, follow us from the chambers perspective, too, on both or on Facebook, LinkedIn and Instagram and then, yeah, otherwise, come to puffer belt days this September.

Brandon Burton 29:48
Yeah, that’s perfect. I will get that in our show notes for this episode to make it easy for people to find you and connect with you. But again, Jennifer, thank you for spending. Time with us today, here on chamber chat podcast, sharing some of your experiences and lessons learned through it. And I just think that the important lessons that come through it and understanding the great value that a chamber has. And I love the comment you made. If you’ve got a great community, it’s a reflection of your chamber. And keep up the good work. So thank you for for sharing this with us today, and I appreciate you spending time Brandon,

Jennifer Hanson 30:27
thanks for having us.

Brandon Burton 30:29
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Reinventing the Rubber Chicken Dinner with Michelle Epling

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Our guest for this episode is Michelle Epling. Michelle is a dynamic leader and the 2024 Alabama Chamber Champion as the President and CEO of the Madison Chamber of Commerce. Michelle has transformed the chamber by earning its first accreditation in 31 in its 31 year history, with a rich background in sales, business development and entrepreneurship, Michelle combines her passion for community engagement with the focus on professional growth, having completed three years of the US Chamber’s IOM program. But Michelle, I’m excited to have you with us today here on Chamber Chat Podcast. I’d love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the Chamber Champions who are out there listening, and to share something interesting about yourself, so we can all get to know you a little better. Sure. Thank

Michelle Epling 1:57
you so much for having me today. Brandon, it’s an honor to be on this podcast. And again, I’m Michelle Epling. I’m the president of the Madison Chamber of Commerce in Madison, Alabama, which is very close to Huntsville, Alabama, for those that aren’t familiar, and it’s been my honor to be the president of the Madison chamber for the last three years. Something interesting a lot of people don’t know about me. I’ll say there’s two things. One, I have nine year old twins. They’re identical twin girls, and their hobby is Irish dancing. So we actually go to Irish dance competitions, and they look like little river dancers. It’s really quite fun. And then a family to bit is we actually run a family pecan farm on the side. So we have Newberry pecans that has over 1500 pecan trees, the largest pecan orchard in North Alabama. So if you think your family is nuts, my family, little literally sells nuts, and so we have a great time doing that. That’s been in a family business for about 10 years now, and it continues to grow, and really helps keep me having the perspective of the struggles of what we go through as business owners, because we’re right there on the front line as a family, figuring it out step by step. So yeah,

Brandon Burton 3:12
definitely helpful in giving you that perspective. I’ll say so, I’m in Texas, and we don’t have pecan farms, but we have pecan farms, so I think they’re similar, but yeah,

Michelle Epling 3:23
absolutely, absolutely, we don’t say pecan here in Alabama. But yeah,

Brandon Burton 3:27
yeah. So I’m originally from California, so it’s pecan to me, but there’s a lot of pecan people here. So anyway, well, tell us a little bit more about the Madison chamber. Give us an idea of the size of the chamber, staff, scope of work, just things you guys are involved with to kind of set the stage for our discussion today.

Michelle Epling 3:48
Absolutely. So I started at the Madison chamber three years ago. This month, actually, in November, we had about 259 members. Three years ago, they had not done any major events coming out of COVID. That was November of 2021 and really came into a chamber where the business owners were not happy with the chamber. They didn’t like us. Most of the town didn’t even know we existed, and really just stepped in from day one and always focused on, how do we add value to our members, and by doing that, we have now grown to over 500 members. In the last three years, we’ve grown the budget more than tripled it. We’re right about under a half a million dollar budget as a chamber size, and we put on anywhere between 25 to 30 events a year, on top of about 50 to 60 ribbon cuttings and groundbreakings a year, just due to the exponential growth in the city of Madison, we’re the number one school district in the state of Alabama, number one city to live in the state of Alabama. And we just had, we just opened our Costco last week. Week. So that was super exciting. We’ve also opened a BJ is wholesale this year. So I like to say we run with scissors. You know, Mom always says, don’t run with scissors. We literally run with scissors each and every day. And the team works very hard behind the scenes just to keep up with the growth.

Brandon Burton 5:14
That’s great. Yeah, it I know there’s chambers out there listening that are always a little jealous, and they hear of a community that has that kind of exponential growth. I’m always curious, is there a certain industry or something happening specifically that’s driving that growth?

Michelle Epling 5:30
So we are about 15 minutes next to Huntsville, Alabama, which was named by the US World Reports last year as the number one city to live in the state of Alabama, we have a huge presence of Redstone Arsenal, the FBI, and so we also have a big diversity of businesses in our county, being in the Huntsville metro area. So we just are very fortunate in the community, really, truly believing in regionalism and coming together. You know, we always say a win for Huntsville, a win for Muscle Shoals, a win for Scottsboro or any other surrounding city or Athens, Alabama, is a win for the whole region. And we truly all work together as chamber professionals to share that regionalism and work towards that regionalism together.

Brandon Burton 6:20
Yeah, that’s fantastic. I like the the regional approach, because it does make everybody better and and raises all the ships as that tide rises. So it does, it’s good. And hopefully the the community is starting to to recognize that the Chamber exists, that the Madison chamber is there. So keep, keep making those positive impacts. But for our focus, for our conversation today, we’re going to, we’ve titled this episode reinventing the rubber chicken dinner. And I think we can all relate. We’ve all been to these chamber dinners that were luncheons or whatever it may be, and the the chamber chicken, right? So we’re gonna take a fresh approach to reinventing this and see the approach that Michelle’s and her chamber has taken as soon as they get back from this quick break.

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All right, Michelle, we’re back, as I mentioned before the break, we’re reinventing the rubber chicken dinner today, so that should get everybody excited. We can toss that that old menu, and it’s not just the menu, right? So talk to us about talk to us about how you’ve approached this, this reinvention of what a traditional chamber dinner is

Michelle Epling 10:47
absolutely well, I we have a saying in our office if me and the team does not want to be at the event, why are we putting on this event? Alright, so I think that also goes down to what you eat at the event as well. And you know, making the events in such a way that, does it have to be a plated serve chicken dinner? Is there a different way we can go about doing a state of the city that is still fun and interesting, and, you know, bridges the community together, but doesn’t have to just be in round tables. And so three years ago, when I started, our city had just built a brand new minor league baseball stadium called the Rocket City trash pandas. And yeah, they’re they’re really cool. They have the guy, the little mascot, is out of a trash can, looking like a rocket. I mean, everybody wears trash pan and merchandise. And so within our city limits of the city of Madison, we actually don’t have a venue space that can seat 500 people and round tables of eight like it physically does not exist. We would have to go to Huntsville or Athens outside our city limits. And so with my mayor’s encouragement, he said, Let’s re look at how we did the state of the city before COVID. You know, you’re the new chamber president. We have this beautiful new stadium. How can we reinvent this dinner? And so we actually, in partnership with the Rocket City trash pandas, open the gates of Toyota field. We give out 500 free hot dog Soda and Ice Cream, and we invite the entire community to come to our state of the city. We line the concourse with a business showcase that’s super popular, and we do a community state of the city on the field of our minor league baseball team. So it doesn’t have to be a rubber chicken dinner for it to be an official state of the city. And I think we’ve proven that. We just did our third annual State of the City this past year. It was super successful. Our members love it. The community loves coming out to it. You know, we’re going to even have a mayor showcase and city council showcase next year, where they’re going to be on the concourse, meeting the constituents. And so it’s just a fun way to highlight our community. We give out a Military Family of the Year Award during that presentation, the mayor shows videos. Really just a neat way to reinvent that rubber chicken dinner. And then, you know, thinking of the rubber chicken dinner, we also had our annual gala Monday night. And, you know, at a gala, you give out the membership awards. We gave out Business Person of the Year, and then you give out young professional of the year. And this is the first time in our 31 year history, we’ve actually done an annual membership meeting that was a formal event that was cocktail, long dresses, and, you know, giving out award after award after award. I mean, it’s the same, right? It’s someone’s getting an award on stage. And I went to the team and I said, you know, I saw this thing a few years ago. This influencer did in Nashville, and she had these Santa elves come out, and they carried a basket during the middle of one of her events, and everybody got a free whatever it is. I wonder if our business community could get behind this. So I made a few phone calls to our local downtown restaurant that’s iconic, that’s in the Old City Jail, that serves like the meat and three I called out back. I called Chicken Salad Chick and some local retailers. And between the rubber chicken dinner, the team came out, and I had one on the podium for me and my chairman of the board. And we put on a blue because our logo is blue. Santa hat. Played Christmas music, and we distributed what we call Madison favorite things, and everybody loved it. So again, as you were planning these rubber chicken dinners, we serve steak. By the way, don’t serve chicken service. Pay the extra money. People want to eat the steak. Don’t serve the chicken. And. And make it fun. Do you want to be there? Would you want to sit through this entire program? And if your team’s answer is no, what are you doing to add value to your members at that event? And that’s what we look at with every single thing we do at the chamber. I love that

Brandon Burton 15:18
man. I love the reinvention, thinking outside the box, these approaches that really drive engagement. I mean, the thought comes to me the business showcase and the concourse of the baseball field. Now, if you just did your typical annual you know, state of the city in a conference hall, you’re not going to necessarily have the space to do business showcase, but Right? You’re supporting the businesses, giving them that space, or interacting with people in the community. They’re there. I mean, just the whole idea of it is much more effective, much more in line. I would even argue with what a chamber is and should be focused on.

Michelle Epling 15:57
And we even find some of those sponsorship levels to nonprofits. So we will say to someone that’s willing to give us X amount of money. Look, you could either have two tables on the concourse, or you can donate them to two nonprofits, and they love that. Yeah, how are you adding value to those sponsors, with the money they’re investing in your chamber, what’s important to them and to those sponsors, it’s those nonprofits and those causes that they give a lot of time and money to. How can you then turn that sponsorship and giving it back to that member as well, and not just taking money from them for you to put on an event? I

Brandon Burton 16:39
love that, so help us. I think you’ve done a good job with the setup, with the state of the city, and at the baseball stadium, just being able to see and visualizing the displays of businesses in the concourse get people seated with their hot dogs and ice cream. And normally in that setting, we’re waiting for that first pitch to be thrown out. So is there a stage set up on the field, or are you utilizing the big screen? That’s how what? What’s that look like? We

Michelle Epling 17:10
do have a podium on the field. They have a huge jumbotron at the baseball stadium that we use, and then they have the announcer, just like you’d be like, coming on home plate is so and so, I don’t baseball, whatever. And he announces, you know, please direct your attention to the field. In five minutes, we’ll be starting our program. And then at the time, he will say, please direct your attention. We always start with the tripping of the colors, because that always gets everyone’s attention, and that gets everyone to quiet down. And then after the tripping of the colors we have, we incorporate our schools and they sing the national anthem. That also gets everybody to kind of get in their seat and settle down. And so that kind of starts the program itself

Brandon Burton 17:56
gets butts in seats too. When you involve the schools and parents, they’re going to come and watch their kids sing, and that’s awesome, absolutely.

Michelle Epling 18:04
And then I would say another thing we do that’s kind of unique to our chamber is because we did not have an a venue that could host, like a business, or what we call it best in Business Awards. Three years ago, we ended up having to host it at the high school? Well, no one told me, Brandon that. I guess I never got in trouble in high school. I didn’t know you couldn’t serve alcohol in an auditorium at a high school, and it’s against a federal law, even if the superintendent is nobody tells me this Brandon Okay, and so I’m talking to the superintendent, and I’m talking to him about, okay, we’ll have our cocktail reception out here with the bar. And he’s like, Michelle, you’re legally not allowed to do that. And I’m like, Well, what do you mean? I’m not allowed to do that? And he was like, Well, you’re not allowed to serve alcohol in my auditorium. You can still host your best in Business Awards, but there will be no alcohol served during this entire night. And so we had a bank come forward at the time and said, Michelle, let’s host an after party at one of the local restaurants and bars. I’m good friends with this restaurant. We will sponsor it. We’ll invite all the nominees. We’ll give out drink tickets and serve some like desserts. But then, because I have both insurance licenses, from an insurance standpoint, I’m like, it’s really not a good idea to let these hungry people leave an award show and go straight to drinking alcohol. That just seemed like a liability. Brandon, so we got with a local restaurant, and they made a charcuterie cup, like to go. So think of like a charcuterie platter, and they in a cup, and my ambassadors handed them out as people were walking out the door, headed to the barn, I made a joke on the stage and said, enjoy your Madison car snacks on the way to the after party. Well, then a few months later, we were recognizing one of our elected officials, was our former Speaker of the House, who is. Now our chairman of the county commission. We threw a welcome back party for him. We found out what his favorite snacks were, put them in a little lunch bag, gave them out to all those attendees. Called him a Madison car snack. So much so that that’s now a sponsorship item in my sponsorship guide, and it has been requested thing I had another chamber, the Athens chamber. President Monday morning at 7am said, Do we have Madison car snacks at your annual gala tonight? That’s all I want to know again. How can you create these little traditions within your chamber that makes everyone feel part of it, but then it lets the celebration continue, even if it’s just for the car ride home, to continue adding value to that event. And so Madison car snacks, you ask any of our members, they can tell you exactly what it is, what a great idea as a sponsorship, and everyone wants it. And so again, how are you reinventing that rubber chicken dinner is what we look at every day.

Brandon Burton 21:04
Yeah, man, that is, I love that. I love how it wasn’t necessarily a plan to have your Madison car snacks, but it came out of a, maybe an oversight, we’ll say, you know, and necessity and and then that kind of evolves to be in the thing people look forward to. And you know, kind of rolls off your tongue. You’re you want your car snacks, right? You gotta.

Michelle Epling 21:26
Can we put the members logo on it, and we have an actual logo that says Madison car. And the snacks is, like, crunched out of it. I can email it to you and show you, and we put them in little clear bags, or little lunch bags we buy at Party City, and then I get up on the stage of whatever event it is and say, Brandon, the CEO of chamber, chat, podcast, favorite snacks or Milano cookies and skinny pop and join them on your ride home. And everybody loves it. You know, it’s just such a fun way to again, how are we adding value in what we’re doing at these events. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 22:02
that’s fantastic. And I’m glad you learned about the no alcohol on the campus before the event. I mean, it is, it’s zero tolerance. I don’t know what would

Michelle Epling 22:14
that is not allowed so several weeks before we put that event on, and thankfully, we have members that stepped in to help solve that problem. So so now we always do also have an after party at one of our local bars. So when we do best in business, we partner with the local bar and we have the after party again. How are you making this fun? And also don’t give speeches. That’s the other thing we do the award shows. We do not do any speeches on that stage

Brandon Burton 22:44
that’s much appreciated by everybody there that your

Michelle Epling 22:47
great aunt Nancy inspired you to start the business. What we do instead is we have announcer that has, like the deep announcer voice, and he gets he’s there right next to my marketing director, and he will say, now please welcome to the stage. Brandon, who has started this podcast X number of years ago and has won so many awards and and really highlights that person in a much more professional way than people can. Sometimes, if they’re shocked, get up and say in front of the microphone. So we gave out 11 awards Monday night, plus recognizing our elected officials and all that, gave an annual report for about seven to 10 minutes in in in less than an hour, according to our mayor, from start to finish. Yeah, that’s good, adding value. You know,

Brandon Burton 23:37
I like the announcer telling about the business as they’re walking up, because otherwise you get applause, and by the time you’re at the fourth, fifth person, everybody’s like, Hey, we’re tired of clapping the whole walk up. So being able to utilize that time in an effective way and cut down in other areas is super helpful. Well, I love this. I love the energy. I love the outside the box thinking, the creativity is is wonderful as we shift gears a little bit. I wanted to ask you, on behalf of chambers listening, who are looking to take their chamber up to the next level, what kind of tip or action item might you share with them to try to accomplish that goal?

Michelle Epling 24:17
Yeah, something one of my consultants taught me, um, two things really is one, and I said it several times, how are you adding value to your members? You know, what are you doing that’s setting yourself apart from all the other noise, whether it’s the newsletter or the E blast, um, how are you adding value? And then the second one is, never make it hard for people to give you money. So Veronica cram is one of my consultants that helps our chamber with insight, strategic solutions. And she always says to me, Michelle, do not make it hard for people to give you money. And so I can’t tell you the number of times, especially, you know, when I started, it was me and one other full time employee if I got an email from. Somebody, and they said, Michelle, I’m trying to pay an invoice. I would stop what I was doing right then and there and get that payment immediately. And again, that drives the bottom line. And I’m a big believer that if you solve the income problem, all the other problems are a lot easier to fix. Yes, don’t make it hard for people to give you money.

Brandon Burton 25:22
Those two points of how are you adding value to your members, but also not making it hard for people to give you money, are great lessons for business owners to think about and implement as well. So there may be, there may be more there that can be taught and be you own programming there in its own to remove some barriers from people giving your members money, and for your members to learn how to add value to their customers every transaction. Absolutely. Michelle, as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward.

Michelle Epling 26:03
You know, I really see Chambers as being the convener. You know, when you think of a chamber, we are really in a unique position that can convene all the groups around the table as truly a neutral, unbiased third party. And so one of the things we’ve done at our chamber three years ago is we had the downtown businesses, we had rotary we had the Madison Street Festival. We had all these different the school system. We had all these different entities all doing great things in our community. But then sometimes their events would overlap, sometimes they would get upset that so and so’s doing something, and so and so is doing something. And we created the one Madison meeting, and we put the mayor with the chief of fire and police and all the festivals and all the organizations that really do those community events in our town, the trash panda baseball stadium people. And we meet once a quarter, and every organization gets five minutes to give an update on what their organization is doing. And the the amount of cross collaboration that has happened because we convened them together is immeasurable. I mean, the amount of initiatives that have come out of that meeting, and I think we need to continue to find ways to convene people together, whether it’s convening them in person, or being the convener on social media, on Instagram and Facebook, and being the one at the event going live, talking about what’s happening in and around your community. You know we really have a unique voice in being that neutral, unbiased third party to really share the good news. And so we call it celebrate Madison for our state of the city event, and we truly believe in celebrating our community. And I think chambers really could really make a big impact if they continue to find ways to celebrate their community, because you can go to any community and go to the what’s happening in ABC towns Facebook page, and you would think that city is on fire, and it’s the worst city in existence. How are you being louder on social media and in the groups you can lean around the table to celebrate your city. And I think that’s where chambers really have the future, is celebrating the communities they serve. And I think sometimes we forget that we have a unique opportunity to do that.

Brandon Burton 28:34
Yeah, I love that. When you It talked about Facebook and the, you know, saying it was on fire, I was thinking the other way, you have people talking about all the good things, but it’s really those communities online, online tend to be trash talking, right? Just really negative. So to be able to turn that and put it on its head and celebrate what your community has to offer and the good things going on, and build upon that there’s so much value there so but Michelle, I wanted to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for listeners who may want to reach out and connect with you and learn more about Madison, car snacks or anything else. What would be the best way for them to reach out and connect sure

Michelle Epling 29:18
they can email me at Michelle, at Madison Al, like Alabama, chamber.com, and I would be happy to have a conversation with them.

Brandon Burton 29:29
That’s perfect. We’ll get that in our show notes to make it nice and easy to find. But Michelle, this has been a fun conversation, energizing. Should give people some ideas of some new approaches that they can take to their annual banquets or awards night, or any other, I’m gonna say, old fashioned, traditional chamber event, right? Let’s, let’s reimagine some of these things and bring some new light life to them. Thank you for sharing your example and experiences and. Know, and building the excitement for the listeners to be able to bring that back home for themselves. No

Michelle Epling 30:06
problem, we love celebrating Madison and thank you for having me on the podcast today. I appreciate it.

Brandon Burton 30:12
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Thinking Big with Ryan Tarrant

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Our guest for this episode is Ryan Tarrant. Ryan is currently the President and CEO of the Jackson County Chamber of Commerce and Experience Jackson, Jackson County’s destination marketing organization. In this role, he leads a strategy and vision to improve the regular quality of life in Jackson County for businesses and residents through advocacy, collaboration and destination development. Ryan previously served as the Chief Operating Officer of Business Leaders for Michigan, the state business roundtable, which he dedicated to making Michigan a top 10 state for jobs, education, widely shared prosperity and and a healthy economy, where he oversaw the execution of the organization’s work plan and public policy engagement strategy. He also has prior experience as a chamber executive, where his success included securing more than a million dollars in public funding for an award winning talent attraction and retention initiative, and created a robust advocacy strategy that drove community infrastructure projects, place made, placemaking activities and engagement with local, state and federal officials. Prior to his work in membership based organizations, Ryan held a variety of positions in government and politics, serving as chief of staff to US Representative John Molinar and as a district director for us, rep dave Camp and run numerous federal campaigns. Ryan has a bachelor’s degree in political science from Saginaw Valley State University, and he and his wife, Cheryl, have two mostly adult children and reside in Jackson, Michigan. Ryan, I’m excited to have you with us today here on Chamber Chat Podcast. I’d love to give you a chance to say hello to all the Chamber Champions who are out there listening, and to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better.

Ryan Tarrant 2:59
Yeah, thanks, Brandon. You know, reading through that bio, it’s starting to make me just feel old. You know, I didn’t feel that old before. And you know, have those Boomer, growing children that tend to go leave for college and then come home and stay for a little bit. So, you know, hopefully we’ll be empty nesters soon. But yeah, I grew up in a mid sized town similar to Jackson, you know, we’ve got 30,000 people grew up in Bay City, Michigan, and, you know, great town had a, had a great upbringing, you know, you had the river, you had the lake, you know, grew up, you know, sailing and doing those things. You know, they have a sailing association. So, you know, really, every kid in the community can go out and learn to sail. And, you know, just, just kind of a fantastic place to grow up and live, you know, real sense of community. But one of the things, you know, it’s a traditional Midwest blue collar town, and so, you know, over the years, as you lose some of that manufacturing, you know, I think there’s a tendency for people to kind of say, well, you know, we’re, we’re, we’re just, you know, I think Madonna called it the dirty little town, because she grew up there as well. Okay, you know. So, so I think for me, you know, growing up in Bay City, you had a region, and Bay City kind of always felt like that, that little bit of a red headed stepchild. You had Midland with the headquarters of Dow, and you had Saginaw that was twice as big and, and so, you know, you always felt a little bit less than maybe, but, you know, so I think that’s what’s kind of drawn me into to the chamber world.

Brandon Burton 4:31
Yeah, it turns into a fighter. It sounds like little scrappy. Yeah, yeah, that’s good. So as far as the the chamber goes, what? What’s the size look like? Staff, scope of work, things you guys are involved with?

Ryan Tarrant 4:48
Yeah. So our chamber is about little shy of 700 members, you know, budgets little north of 600,000 and then I also run experience Jackson, which is our destination. Marketing organization, which is actually housed in the same building, but has a completely separate board, had combined. We have a staff of 10, and then the combined budgets, you know, roughly about 1,000,006 or 1,000,007 between the two. So two distinctly different missions. You know, from the chamber perspective. We we have a strategic plan that, you know, really tries to put our members first. You know that customer service, what our events look like. How are we connecting our members? You know, you’re kind of, if anybody thinks of a chamber, it’s, it’s that traditional chamber experience, but it’s really only, you know, probably a quarter of a third of what we do. You know, the other two pieces are, how do we impact our community? You know, what kinds of things can we? Can we take on? Can we convene and collaborate on to to improve the community? And then the third leg of the stool for us is, is that government affairs and advocacy work? You know, here in Michigan, we we’ve seen some some changes for businesses on the public policy side. And, you know, how do we, how do we push back on that when we need to? How do we, how do we work with our elected officials on some of those issues? And, you know, so over the last year, I’ve been here about 14 months this year, we we’ve had some issues with aggressive panhandling, you know, coming out of the out of the pandemic, I think a lot more communities have dealt with, you know, homelessness, panhandling and some of those types of issues, maybe more than they had in the past. You know, we got to the point where in our downtown, specifically, it was getting pretty aggressive. We have a self described progressive city council, okay, who had had pushed back on it for a long time and and so we spent about nine months working with them, to come to a compromise agreement early in the summer, to to kind of abate that a little bit as far as that aggressive behavior, as far loitering and accosting. And so, you know, had some success there. You know, we go after a lot of different state appropriations, earmarks, if you will, to to kind of ramp up projects, and that’s kind of the scope of what we do. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 7:04
well, that should set the stage for our discussion today. You guys are busy, for sure, get your hands in some several things and making an impact, but we’re going to focus our discussion today around thinking big and some of these big swings you guys have tried and these ideas that that come to you, and I’m excited to dive into this conversation and learn from these things you present to us today as soon as we get back from this quick break.

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All right, Ryan, we’re back. I mentioned before the break. We’re talking about thinking big today. So in all these different areas of work that you guys are involved with, what are how do you incorporate thinking big? That might be the better way of asking it. How do you incorporate it? You know, every

Ryan Tarrant 9:53
community has its own personality, I would say. And you know, a lot of places in the Midwest you look at and. And and those these communities kind of take a look. And, you know, in our state, if you’re in a mid sized community, you look and you say, Okay, well, you know, Grand Rapids and Detroit sort of get everything and you know, and they’re doing a phenomenal job. I mean, you know, we all know, know about the NFL draft in Detroit and things happening in Grand Rapids with beer city, and then you’ve got Traverse City up north and and so they get a lot of play and a lot of a lot of credit for things. And I think we can, we can have a little bit of fall into a little bit of a rut where we just sort of expect to get, get what we get, and move forward, and nothing really changes, you know. And I think we take a little bit of a different perspective on it, which is, you know, kind of that, why not us? You know, if, if there’s, there’s these opportunities out there, you know, I mentioned appropriation as far as the government advocacy side goes, you know, why not us? You know, if you’re not even asking, you’re never going to get anything, and everything’s always going to be the same. You know, downtown Jackson seen a lot of redevelopment over the last decade or so. I mean, it’s really come back. You have restaurants, you have businesses downtown, and, you know, we have Consumers Energy, which is, you know, either number one or number two, as far as the biggest energy companies in the state that’s headquartered on one end of our downtown, the other end of the downtown, on the other hand, has something called the Hays hotel. It’s this historic hotel, 10 stories, and it’s been vacant for 21 years. And as I came into the community, and you know, I we would talk about the Hays hotel, and you would have people who would just kind of roll their eyes because they’ve all heard it before, and something’s going to happen with it. You know, fast forward and, and there’s a developer who’s who’s committed to it, and, and, you know, through our conversations with them, learned that there was a little bit of a gap with with all of the the different funding components, you know, you look at over the last couple of years, the increases in interest rates and labor shortages and supplies. And so, you know, it would seem that every time they would fill a gap, there was, you know, maybe another hurdle at the back end. So, you know, we kind of took a look at that and said, Well, you know, what if we tried to hit the easy button here a little bit. And so we engaged with our elected representatives at the state capitol and and kind of had that conversation and said, Look, this is, this is sort of that, that transformational project that kind of completes downtown and books and bookends Consumers Energy to then start to infill some of those, those side streets. You know, we were successful in securing we, we actually asked for $3 million and secured four and a half million dollars. Wow, yeah, they treated it a little bit like the 2023, housing market. You know, you put it up for 100 and they give you 150 right? But, you know, those are the types of things that you know, if you say, why not us? And you make the ask, you know, it’s okay to fail. You know, nothing changes if you fail, but nothing changes if you don’t try either.

Brandon Burton 13:05
Yeah? So, and if you do fail, you learn something, and you can apply it to the next, the next, you know, big idea, right? That’s exactly right, yeah. So, as we talk about big thinking, I I can’t help but think of you can’t have big thoughts if you don’t have big vision, right? If you don’t see a bigger plan or bigger vision for your community, can you speak towards that as to how you see Jackson County, what the possibilities are, what how you would like to see yourself in the future, and to be able to apply that to these big ideas that you’re working towards?

Ryan Tarrant 13:42
Yeah, I’m a big fan of, you know, looking at what others are doing and kind of figuring some of those pieces out, like, what are those aspirational goals? You know, I mentioned Grand Rapids, you know, there’s some other communities out there. We actually transitioned one of our team members into more of a data and analytics role, you know, he has a skill set for it, and so, you know, he’s been doing a lot of this. And, you know, not just kind of the, you know, hey, we’re going to do a community assessment and ask people how they feel. You know, we’ve been doing those for 40 years. And over the last 60 years, the city has lost 40% of its population because people’s feelings aren’t based on anything that you know maybe is real or or achievable. And so, you know, we look at at similar communities and find those comparable communities, then, you know, okay, what are, what are their chambers doing? Who is that, that sort of spark plug in the community, that organization, or that individual, you know what? What’s caused them to grow to, you know, achieve additional educational attainment, those types of things. And so, you know, for us, over the last couple of months, we’ve started to look at some of those things. And you know, you can look at Grand Rapids, and the things that we found are, you know, the two biggest keys to to growth seem to be, you know, persistence in your goal and strategies. And you. Yeah, and then, you know, having sort of some spark or some leader that that actually moves it forward. And when I talk about that persists, persistence, when you look at Grand Rapids, you know that that downtown redevelopment in Grand Rapids started in the mid 70s when Gerald Ford was president. You know, the Secret Service, when he became president, told him he couldn’t do a parade in His own hometown because there were so many vacant buildings and they couldn’t secure him. So, you know, fast forward a few years, and they had a conference center come in, and then, you know, and then it was a civic arena, and then it was a medical mile and a four year institution. And it’s been driven by, you know, collaborative efforts, but also by a couple of larger corporations or families that are located there. You know, similar things can be seen around the country. You know, you look at Bentonville, Arkansas with with the Walmart and Walden family, and then you look at places that that have the opportunity to do those things, but maybe don’t have that one or two businesses or individual that individuals with wealth that can kind of pull it off and keep people together. And what does that look like? You know, I talked to our peers in Mankato, Minnesota last week, and, you know, talking to them, and that persistence is there too, you know, they, they’ve, over the last 40 years, had these 20 year plans. I mean, they’re telling me they’re on number three. And so how do we create that? I mean, you’re talking mid 80s, yeah, how many changes of leadership have we had in since the mid 80s? You know, I’ve been in in communities where where you look at things and you go, Okay, there’s this collective group of leaders who have this vision and support each other and collaborate. But then you have one or two leave, and you have another one retire. And if, if that vision isn’t written down, and you’re not not pulling in those successors immediately into that, those leadership roles and to help with that vision, it starts to fall apart. And so, you know, it’s, it’s that keeping people together and that consistency in what you’re doing. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 17:06
now I love that, the creating that vision, and being able to see where there’s certain individuals in a community that maybe carry more influence they might, and I’m not talking necessarily elected officials, but you gave the example of the Walton family, and, you know, they’ve got money, they’ve got influence, big business. How do you get those people within your community to kind of, I don’t know how to say this, in the way that that I intend, but to engage, but to to not be so hyper focused on their individual business growth and success, but to be able to look at the greater picture of the community and get them to engage in the community, to see it grow and success and succeed by applying some of their skills and connections and abilities to the greater good

Ryan Tarrant 17:55
and and I think the biggest, the biggest key there. I mean, you know, you talk to economic developers. And you know what number one or number two is always people, if you’re talking to site selectors, on what’s the first thing they look at if they’re going to go into a community, right? It’s, do you have the quality and quantity of workforce, you know? So when you start talking to those, those you know, whether it’s an individual or a larger corporation, you know, everything I try and do comes from a perspective of, you know, talent, attraction, retention. You know, is this something that’s going to help us attract and retain talent, or is it just something that that we’re doing to do and how does it move the needle? You know, on our destination marketing organization side, you know, we’re making a big outdoor Bucha. Because, you know, we have something called the Irish hills in our county, and there’s, there’s opportunities for for gravel biking out there, which is the fastest segment of cycling. You know, we’ve got 11 miles of mountain biking trails, and our one of our city parks that just needs to be regrouped and maybe added to. And so, you know, how do we do that? Because now those things translate to those quality of life amenities that, you know, when one of our major corporations, or even, you know, a physical therapy organization, is hiring somebody out of college, you know, do you want to go to Jackson, or do you want to go to Chicago? And if you don’t have those quality of life amenities that, you know, you’re not going to compete with the big city lifestyle, but that’s okay. Utilize the assets you have, but make them as good as they can be. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 19:27
that makes a lot of sense. That place making aspect is huge. And I love the example you gave, the Hayes Hotel. I’m in Texas, and there’s a big historic hotel not too far from where I’m at, that has been vacant since, I believe, the 50s. So it’s been it’s quite the icon. People see it, but just now, things are starting to happen to revitalize it. And it’s great to see it’s great to see those success stories and to see it turn around. And it’s something that builds a community. Be around it too, where you can see progress happening on like, a magnified level, right? Yeah,

Ryan Tarrant 20:07
yeah. And those are the sort of transformational things that you see in a community that, yeah, you know, it’s sort of the I mentioned the last decade in downtown Jackson. And you know that that, to me, is that transformational piece that sparks the next decade.

Brandon Burton 20:22
Absolutely, are there some other big things that that you’ve taken a swing at, or, you know, that they would fall into this category of big thinking that we need to highlight?

Ryan Tarrant 20:35
Yeah, so, you know, you mentioned big things, and I mentioned, you know, a lot of lot of mid sized communities out there, you know, sometimes I think in a in the chambers, we can get hyper focused on our day to day. We’re all so busy, you know, all of those things, but, but we’ve really gotta, gotta kind of identify some of those swings. I mean, we can do that by focusing a little bit, right? Yeah, you know, making sure we’re training our sites and we leave that capacity for for those big swings, you know, but for us, I, you know, revamping those, those mountain biking trails are one of our big pushes for next year, you know, because what we’ve learned is, is, if you’re in that 12 to 20 mile range of mountain biking trails, and you develop them so, you know, you I guess, and I’m learning about Cycling right now, apparently it’s like skiing. They have green so little kids can do it and like me, and then they have black diamonds that are really challenging. And, you know, I break my neck so, you know, bringing in a trail builder to develop that and to add miles to it, so that we can draw people in, you know. And it’s in one of the, you know, I would say probably lower income or more diverse neighborhoods in the city. And so the proximity of it, you know, it’s not just doing that for talent attraction, but how do you make that accessible to everybody? So as a piece of that conversation, we’re looking at it and saying, Okay, can we do a mount like library, if you will, where, you know, a kid from the neighborhood can walk down and and, you know, show his card and essentially rent a bike without paying for it, just like the library and go ride the trails and have fun. You know, you want, you want those things to be accessible for everybody. You want everybody to be able to enjoy them, you know, and to do that because it gives you that, that sense of community pride, because with each one of those things you accomplish, it, it builds on itself. You know, we’ve got, we’ve got another nonprofit in town that’s called the hope kitchen, that’s taking the old Masonic Hall and creating a community kitchen, teaching kitchen to sort of train chefs in front of the house. And, you know, to make sure that that we have that pipeline of of talent for our restaurants, so that, you know, when somebody comes into town, or when you go downtown or to a restaurant in our community, you’re getting the service that you you expect. I mean, I think we’ve all been out to eat over the last couple of years, since COVID and and it always feels like, you know, a lot of time, I wouldn’t say always, but often times it feels like, you know, maybe that level of service that we were accustomed to pre COVID is not the same as post COVID, yep. And so, you know, teaching those people, you know how to do that, and and for us, you know, how do we support that? You know, when they need, when they need to purchase their equipment. How do we how do we help them, whether it’s with with grant funding, through the advocacy process, you know, those types of things. So yeah, so those are some of the, some of the things that that are on our radar right now.

Brandon Burton 23:33
And actually just saw this last week, restaurant that had a sign posted on their door said, No, dine in, just take out only, and it’s something that’s stuck ever since COVID and and I hope that’s because the the data is telling them that’s the best solution for them, but my fear is they can’t get the staff to do dine in or decide easier at the community the Customer Services has fallen out something,

Ryan Tarrant 24:01
yeah, the worst one I’ve seen. I saw was I actually tried to order a pizza online, and got a note when I tried to to click Order, and it said, we’re short staffed. We’re taking time to orders for tomorrow. What I got pizza from somewhere else. I think I still have pizza. So yeah, but yeah, that was the most bizarre one. I mean, they updated their their website, and they’re ordering, oh my goodness, that quickly, that you know, hey, we’re just, we’re busy, and we can’t keep up, so we’re just not taking any more

Brandon Burton 24:35
orders. Wow. But hopefully your appetite is still there tomorrow. So that’s crazy. Well, as as we start to wrap up here, I like asking for the chamber that’s listening, who’s trying to elevate their organization to the next level. What kind of tip or action item might you suggest for them and trying to accomplish that goal? So

Ryan Tarrant 24:55
I think we were, we were sort of, you know, in that mindset of. You know, about a year ago, when we were sounds like, yeah, strategic planning, right? You know, how do we elevate to the next level? We hadn’t done a lot of community initiatives or, you know, over the past few years, we hadn’t done a lot of advocacy work for our members over the past few years. And so, you know, they’ve been doing kind of this, you know, event to event kind of mindset. And so one of the things that we did was we actually developed a survey for other chambers. And so, you know, I mentioned our revenues about 600,000 so we kind of kind of broke it out into those peer chamber, Chamber organizations, and then sort of those aspirational chambers that are in that next level at 700,000 to a million or so. And we really went through and kind of said, you know, how many, how many events do you have that would be considered, you know, kind of, quote, unquote, Premier events, you know, your annual meeting, or your community awards or, or those types of things and, and, you know, how many of these advocacy pieces do you do, you know, kind of went down the line to try and benchmark a little bit to see, you know, at different levels, is, is there a different, you know, what does that look like? You know, are we doing something that’s a little bit off and, and what we found from it, you know, we had, we had, it actually ended up getting 1010, or 11 responses, you know, we, we targeted, who we who we asked. But we it was split evenly between those, you know, smaller in our our level, and then those larger organizations. And what we found was, the larger you are, the less you do. It’s hard to think about, but say it again, right? Or at least the forward facing of what you do is less larger you are, you know, because so many of us think of events, the less you do. Yeah, and it was that, you know, it felt like, as you got to that larger, larger revenue size, and you start to get north of 700,000 you know, those organizations are focusing more, doing fewer premier events, probably doing them really well. But part of that is because they’re transitioning from doing more events to more of that community based work, more of that advocacy style work. And even within that advocacy work, they’re more focused. They might pick three or four priorities that they want to work on, versus having, you know, 10 or 15 and and throwing everything at the at the wall and seeing what sticks. So, yeah, you know, I think that that next level for all of us is, is probably being more focused, you know, we, we, and we can fall into that. I mean, I’m, I’m as guilty as everybody else, right? We get so busy, you know, that there’s so many things going on, and sometimes it’s hard to to put that focus and pinpoint on on that one thing that your members need. But you know, I think at the end of the day, you know, for us, if, if we can accomplish that, that top priority, versus numbers 10 through 20, I think our members are going to be happier with us. We’re going to continue to grow, and, you know, the community is going to be better for in the future.

Brandon Burton 27:59
Yeah, but it sounds like having your new data and analytics person is a great step in that direction, to really focus.

Ryan Tarrant 28:07
It does help to look at data. You know, fewer feelings, more things based on data, really, I think, helps us move the needle a little bit. So, yeah,

Brandon Burton 28:16
I just heard the other day somebody was trying to bring back an event after the pandemic, and they put out an email to all their followers and whatnot, and said, you know, if we get enough interest, we’ll put it on. And there was like 300 or so people that responded, yeah, we want to do this. And then the person thought, you know what this is? Just feelings, you know, let me put this out there again, to the ones that said that they want to come and have them put down a 50% deposit, and if we don’t get enough, we’ll refund everything. We won’t do it, but if we get enough, we’ll move forward. And I think he said, Out of the 300 plus, you know people of interest, I think six people put down a deposit. He’s like, we’re not doing it. So I pay cancel it.

Ryan Tarrant 29:03
And I started looking at our events, and kind of said, you know, and talk to our team about if people don’t want to come to an event, you know, they may say they want it in our survey end of year survey, which, you know, we do every year, to kind of, kind of benchmark ourselves and see how we’re doing and what their needs are. And they may say they want all the networking in the world. You know, for us, we offer 22 networking events a year for a grand total of $90 you know, it, it’s literally sort of boosted by sponsors and different things. But if you’re not going to come to it, but you say you want it, we’ll just stop doing it. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 29:39
yeah. Don’t need the practice, right, right?

Ryan Tarrant 29:43
It shows that, you know, we’re a week post election. It shows that sometimes the data and the polling can be

Brandon Burton 29:48
off. Yeah, exactly, yeah. Well, Ryan, as we look to the future of chambers, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Ryan Tarrant 29:57
I don’t know that the purpose changes. All that much. I mean, you know, we’re, we’re still going to have that need for businesses who who want to get together, and who want to want to network with one another, develop those relationships. But I think, you know, if there’s any change at all, it’s probably that more and more of that is going to be about that, that bigger picture work that you’re doing. I mean, when we look at our community work, we’re not thinking of, are we doing this? Does it benefit our members? It’s, are we doing this? And does this benefit the community as a whole? You know, if, if the city of Jackson grows, and the county of Jackson grows and we have a bigger employer base, it certainly helps, helps our members. And so, you know, we worry less about those types of things, you know, right now, we, we are we awaiting word on a million dollar grant that we partnered with our local two year college on. And as a part of that, it’s workforce development, you know, is building out a workforce development collaborative to make sure our educational attainment is where it needs to be, and that all of our workforce development partners are working together, you know. And so about a quarter of that 250,000 would be essentially directed to the chamber to run that piece of it, you know. So, so I think you know that community based piece is probably the biggest thing. If, if people aren’t already doing that, how do you impact your community? You know, we know our businesses want to impact their community. That’s why they’ve, you know, for 70 years, sponsored Little League teams, right? You know, done those types of things. They sponsor the local booster club like they they want their people to have community pride. They want to want to see their community and be be proud of where they’re from, and say, you know, you should come visit. You should move here. It’s a great community, you know. And I think the chamber really in in most places, can be a driver of what we look what their community looks like in the next you know, 1015, 20 years,

Brandon Burton 31:48
yeah, yeah, that’s a great point. Well, Ryan, for listeners who may want to reach out and connect with you and maybe learn more about how you guys are doing things there in Jackson County, or maybe you’re one of the aspirational chambers that they’re looking up towards. But what would be the best way to to point somebody to reach out and connect with you? Sure my

Ryan Tarrant 32:09
email address is ryan@jacksonchamber.org, and my cell phone, because I actually got rid of my desk phone. I don’t use it anyway, is 989-708-7683,

Brandon Burton 32:26
that’s perfect, and we’ll get this in our show notes for this episode. Make it easy to find, but I appreciate you carving out some time to spend with us today on chamber chat podcast, sharing the example you guys are setting there in Jackson County and and sharing these ideas and some of these big things, these swings you guys are taking, I appreciate that, and it’s provided a lot of value to listeners today. So thank you for that.

Ryan Tarrant 32:49
Appreciate it. Thanks, Brandon.

Brandon Burton 32:50
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Your Chamber Does That with John Tayer

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Our guest for this episode is John Tayer as President and CEO of the Boulder Chamber in Colorado, John is honored to lead the organization that serves as boulders unified voice for business interests advances the community’s economic vitality and provides valuable business support services. Prior to joining the boulder chamber in 2012 John was Public Affairs and Communications Director for the pharmaceutical manufacturing company Roche, Colorado Corporation, and policy development director at the Boulder City Manager’s office. John also spent six years as the boulder area’s elected representative to the Regional Transportation District. As a native of Brookline, Massachusetts. John earned his undergraduate degree from the University of Michigan. Spent a couple of years working on Capitol Hill in Washington, DC, and moved to Boulder 34 years ago to earn a law degree from the University of Colorado. He now resides in South Boulder with his wife Molly, and enjoys playing outdoors, accessing local cultural attractions, and generally loves his community. But John, I’m excited to have you with us today here on Chamber Chat Podcast. I’d love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the Chamber Champions that are out there listening and share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little bit better,

John Tayer 2:27
Sure. Brandon, and thank you so much for reaching out and offering to include me in your podcast series. You know. I’ll just say this that you know i a Just so appreciate my chamber colleagues and I learned so much from conversations with them. One of my favorite things is getting together with them at professional conferences. And so this kind of a podcast is a great opportunity to for me to just share my thinking, but I look forward to just listening to others as well as I have previously. I will say that just if you think about me, just as a individual, quirky as I am, I’d say just I love the chamber universe and the work that we do. And I’m sure we’ll get into the details of that, but it is somewhat overwhelming. I mean, we are engaged in so many aspects of our communities, our schedules are, you know, seven or gosh, I get up so early, like four in the morning to get my emails done till late at night, and then just get up and do it again. So in order to balance that kind of a work lifestyle, I would say something different about me that might be relatable to other chamber directors, and that is, I have to be very compulsive about how I schedule in time to exercise and to engage in activities outside of my chamber experience. And what that looked like for quite some time was for three years, three months and three days. I ran five k5, kilometers or more every day, not skipping a day, and whether it was ice storms, the snow, rain, wind, crazy wind days. So you know, for me, that was a just a great way to a keep a consistent pattern of Exercise and Health, but just for also just finding a way to get space where I could just release my mind and think about some of the key issues that I was addressing at work or in life, just amazingly important. So I think maybe the compulsive nature, there’s other elements of that in my life, things I’ve done, but that might be something a little bit unusual to just to give you a sense of my character, yeah, that’s

Brandon Burton 4:56
a that is quite the feat. I. I’ll say, I I’m run. I’ve run as well. I Fitness is important to me. But most mornings, I’m getting my my oldest daughter up at 5am get her going and and I’ll take that time, I’ll get her up, and then I’ll put on the shoes and go out for a run. And in Texas, it’s either like, you gotta beat the sun up, or else, you know, it’ll beat you up, you know, on your run, yeah. So, so I do that, but this week I got her up, and we had a cold front come through, and it was, like, in the 30s, and it’s like, wow, I’m not up for yet. I’m gonna wait for the sun to come up today. Wow. So the fact we’re out nice and,

John Tayer 5:39
yeah, we haven’t had anything like that up here in Colorado. So interesting,

Brandon Burton 5:44
yeah, but I enjoy your your sentiment about, you know, going to chamber conferences and interacting with colleagues and learning from them, spending time with them, and I don’t think we have them enough. So that’s where this podcast kind of fills that void and gives us that, hit that we need in between. So love it, yeah. Well, tell us a little bit about the boulder chamber. Give us an idea of the size, number of staff, scope of work. You guys are involved with budget to kind of set the stage for our conversation today?

John Tayer 6:14
Sure. So the boulder chamber is about 1200 and mid 1200 membership, shooting for 1300 we are a we have about 21 staff members. And just to describe the character of it, we’re one of those chambers that has the opportunity to have economic vitality under our umbrella. So we serve as the economic development agency for Boulder and the broader region from a chamber perspective. And for me, I just we might get into this later, but I wouldn’t have it any other way, in terms of just that marriage of economic vitality underneath the typical chamber functions. So that’s, I think, key, about a $2.6 million budget and just a wide array of just activities that probably aren’t typical of a chamber. So we’ll get into some of that in our conversation. I’m

Brandon Burton 7:16
sure. Yes, absolutely, and and I agree. I think being able to have that marriage of chamber and economic development, makes a lot of sense. As far as that cohesiveness and really building community, you need to be able to be on the same page. So even if they’re separate organizations, being able to come together and be on the same page,

John Tayer 7:35
absolutely. I mean, I hate seeing when you have an Economic Development Authority, separate from the chamber, and they’re competing for funding events for, you know, the elbow throwing around what activities are within their purview. It’s, it’s, to me, that’s undermines Community and Economic Vitality.

Brandon Burton 7:56
Yes, I would agree with that. So we settled on a topic for our conversation today around your chamber does that and that can either that can be a statement or that can be a question. So we’ll get into that much deeper as soon as we get back from this quick break.

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All right, John, we’re back, and before the break I’d mentioned so your chamber. Does that can be a statement or a question, as as we approach the topic today, what, what direction do you want to go with it? First is a statement or a question?

John Tayer 10:09
You know, I’d say that it’s a it’s a statement and, and we do that, it’s, you know, got a period, but it might as well have an exclamation point at the at the back of the the end of it. And the point of that statement is, when you think about chamber organizations, many folks, they’ll say, Well, what does a chamber do? I mean, you’d like to think that the job that you’re doing daily and working your tail off, and folks would completely understand it and have awareness of what Chamber organizations do. But when you, when you talk to average business leaders, citizens on the street, many of them have no idea what a chamber is. And they, they’re, you know, once I tell them what I do, I’m the head of the boulder chamber, they they’ll next question is, and then what do you do for work? And I have to this is actually a full time, more than full time job, really. And so you know the chamber, your chamber does, that is a statement about you should know what your chamber does. And if you you know, if you’re have an issue as a business, if you’re thinking about a community issue that’s impacting the economy, you should talk to us. And so, you know, it’s an expression for us about the just wide range of activities and programs that our chamber is involved with. And you know, I’ll just touch on it. But I mentioned, I mean, we have the traditional three areas of chamber activity, member support and marketing, services and networking. We have our advocacy, which is the being the voice for business interests. And I would say that, you know, that was for us, a very important element of our own sustainability and our strength as it as an organization drawing in members. And then third is that economic vitality element. So we, we are the economic development group looking to retain and attract businesses, to carry the data resources for our community on the health and vitality of our economy and generally helping businesses build toward their future vision. But in addition to that, we’ve taken on significant other ancillary activities that are important to business success. So for example, when we think about one of the challenges for business activity in our region, it’s workforce retention and attraction. And so we’ve we’ve had to approach things like workforce development, helping to develop the talent that we have in our community, to serve the best, serve and align with the businesses needs for different expertise and skills. In addition, we become very active in housing policy, because it’s become very expensive to live in central boulder. So how do we help to develop a ray of housing, not just in Boulder, but around the region? And then third, just as another example, and there’s so many more, we are very active in transportation, where the transportation management organization for our community, and that is facilitating workforce mobility that is in around Boulder, but also, more importantly for workforce retention and attraction, it is what helps us facilitate longer regional commutes for Our workforce, making it really convenient for them to travel to Boulder for work and back maybe to housing outside of our community.

Brandon Burton 14:09
So that gives a great scope of some of those things that you guys are involved with. I love that even in your email signature, you say your chamber does that, you know, so you’re, resonating, that you’re putting that out there and that messaging to your community. So for those listening, yeah, I’m thinking of the chamber executive who’s already overwhelmed, who’s like, we can’t take on one more thing right now. And then somebody in the community will come to the chamber and say, Hey, I think you should do this. So talk to us about that. How do you approach when the new ideas, either if it self generated within the chamber, or ideas are presented to you from the outside, how do you figure out how that aligns with your mission, if it’s something that you’re going to take on and to really run with? Tagline of your chamber. Does that? How does that fit in with this? What

John Tayer 15:03
a brilliant question, a brilliant question. Because I will tell you that that was one of the conversation elements when we did our rebranding to think about, you know, the message that that sends is that, do we become the sponge for just about anything that a chamber can do, because that is one of the greatest challenges in this role, is figuring out what are the things we don’t do, what are the the the opportunities to have an impact on our community, on the economic vitality of our area and support our businesses. And you know, every day, somebody’s calling and saying, Hey, we’re having this parade, and we’d love the chamber to lead it, and you know all this. So how do we approach the decision making around what is appropriate for our organization? And I won’t claim to be expert on this. In fact, if you talk to our staff team, they say we need to do a better job at this. And I think we all with that. But it first starts with the strategic plan. We the way we plan strategically is every year we do, we update our strategic plan. So it’s not a three year plan or five year plan that we we we point toward we know that the conditions in our community and our economy are changing all the time. So every year, we do a soup to nuts review, and that’s everything from just making sure that our mission, our vision, are still in in alignment with what we want them to be, making sure our core values are are still what we feel are critical for our organization to represent. But then you start getting into the meat of the work, of the strategic plan, and we have key pillars they relate to the kinds of things I mentioned earlier, things like being the voice, being the the strong economic vitality pillar member support those kinds of things, a little bit broader scope to to them and nuance. And then, you know, those things don’t change that much. But then underneath are the activities that support success in those key pillar areas, and that is reviewed every year, and they change regularly. I mean, sometimes, you know, we’ll have programs that go on, and we know that they will for a number of years, but other times, we have a mission or goal project that we’re pursuing. We know it, and hope that it’ll be a one year, one and then we’ll be able to move on to something else. But under that umbrella, every year, we’re doing a check to make sure that we are keeping a focus on achieving our key pillar, pillar goals, strategic priorities and the programs, all our programs need to lead toward that we look to weed out things that maybe are no longer serving us in those areas, and then that sets the pace for the year, and we try to be strict about not deviating too far from What we set at the beginning of the year. But you know, opportunities come forward, and so when that happens, we do have a tool for analyzing. Are these things that you know are aligned with our mission? Are they going to serve our goals? Is it something that we have the capacity to take on, whether it’s financially or whether it’s with our staff team. And sometimes there are creative ways that we can either support others in achieving a goal and still be tied in a way that is comfortable and strategic for us. And then at other times, we just have to say sorry. We just can’t be involved with that at this time and and try to offer support and guidance, but you have to make that difficult decision, and you know that at times can be disappointing for folks, but I think the greater clarity you can provide to them up front without hemming and hawing, is serves, serves you long term. And last thing I’ll say about that is we just actually made a decision to take on, for example, the film commission under our umbrella, and something that I really excited about, wanted to pursue, and had to listen to our, my staff team, when they said, you know, no, not now. And this was, this was quite over a couple of years, really. And there, then came a point where we said, Okay, now we see that this fits with us. We see how we can adopt it. And. A way that doesn’t over Burton, our staff, team and resources. So it’s not always a permanent, no, it can be a hey, not now, but maybe in the future.

Brandon Burton 20:12
Yeah, I like how you say you have a tool for analyzing, you know, whether or not something is a fit or something you can take on, is there like a canned response when you get a phone call or an email to one of your 2021, staff members? How does that filter in from the the original source to that feedback of, yes, let’s explore this. Or, you know, how can we support you in another way with your parade or whatever it is, how is the staff trained to handle you know, as more things come your way, you

John Tayer 20:53
know, I think each of them have a different approach. I’ll say just my style. I mean, I just tend to be an exuberant person in general. So my initial response is, wow, that is an exciting idea, if I think it’s a great idea. And boy, I’d love to think about how we could be engaged with that. And then I will absorb as much information as I can. Usually entail some sort of a meeting and discussion. I’ll bring in the appropriate staff folks to have that conversation, and then the statement is, hey, I need to bring it back to the team. It’s kind of and I think folks respect that’s fair when I, when I, when I offer that. I’m really excited about it, but I need to take it back to the team. You know, it’s, it’s an honest statement. I mean, if I don’t think that this is a fit, then I’ll usually let them know. But I really do rely on the team. We have so such great, great staff team members and partners that I want to make sure that they buy in our I meet with our leadership team every week, we walk through just the list of issues that are coming to us, whether they’re existing projects or new ideas. And I’m always testing with them, and there’s some very hard conversations that they have, and you know, listen to periodically, I’ll get reprimanded because I got somebody a little bit too excited about the potential of working with us, and they’re like, wait a minute, you know? And I, you know, they’re they’re right to do that. And so I respect them and look for them to give me honest push back when it’s taking on something that is just not within our capacity, or maybe even not a good fit for us? Yeah.

Brandon Burton 22:40
So I like that approach. I think it’s good to show if there’s some genuine interest to express that, but take it back to the team, and it all has to go through that filter. I think that makes a lot of sense. So I had mentioned before you’ve got the tagline in your your email signature of your chamber. Does that? How do you guys go about telling the story? I mean, you guys are involved in so many things. How do you let your community know exactly what it is you’re involved with? I mean, it’s, it’s in your email signature. You’re on the podcast today talking about it. What are, what are other ways that you’re getting the messaging out there? This is what the Chamber’s doing to advance our community.

John Tayer 23:20
Yeah. So listen, I will defer to our expertise in the marketing era staff team. But you know what we will often do is tell the story through our programs and activities and so we, we, we are very aggressive in our media outreach, our editorial commentary, in our video content, all sorts of ways of communicating that we have this broad scope. And you know for me, some of the most effective tools are the opinion pieces that we write, which allow us to speak up on issues that are important to our businesses, important to our community, and indicate that our organization is at the table, playing a critical role, Speaking on behalf of business interests. I say, always say business interests in harmony with the values of our community, which we shared, environmental sustainability, social equity, but at the same time making it clear, hey, this is the impact this issue will have, or the position. This is why we’re taking this position on a particular issue area. And so to me, these kinds of proactive free media opportunities are really important, having a relationship with our local newspaper reporters so that they know and think to call us on the kinds of activities that we’re working on. And so we. Balanced that kind of approach with just our own marketing messaging, which covers an array of topic areas. We have newsletters in the economic vitality area, in our public policy programs area and in general membership, and try to meet them out in a way that doesn’t overwhelm our membership and our business community, but is demonstrating that we’re active in all of these different areas. I

Brandon Burton 25:31
like that, especially those opinion pieces and your idea of, you know, showing the business interests in conjunction with the community interests. I think it’s so important to show that that alignment there. When you take take something to the team to evaluate whether or not we’re going to take this on as something new that the Chamber does talk to us a little bit about what you look at, as far as the financial aspect, because all of it’s going to take some kind of staff time. I would assume most of these things are going to take staff time. There’s a cost to that. Are these programs? Are they going to be revenue generators? Are you going to have to go after grants? Are you going to so talk to us about the financial aspect as you, as you bring on new programs or new initiatives? Yeah.

John Tayer 26:16
So for me, that it starts with the foundation of the the characterization I have for our organization and any 501 c6 or 501 c3 and that is we are a non profit business, and that means that we have a mission and purpose to our work. We there are specific goals that we have for the work that we do, and we want to be incredibly impactful in those areas, but we know that we cannot achieve those goals or have as much of an impact if we don’t operate as a normal business that has a mindset of bringing in revenue that helps us to employ the staff, team members, pay them in a way that is appropriate for their expertise and skill levels, and also invest in the tools and and and support services that allow us to drive toward those, those those goals. So for everything that we do, we’re always assessing, how can we pay for that? What are the the sponsors? What are the the grant programs? And also thinking about some of the programs that maybe not drawing in direct revenue, but are a driver for membership at standard or even higher levels, because we’re doing that work. So there is that revenue assessment for just about everything we do. You know, there are some things that you would, you would say, Okay, we are doing this because that is a chamber activity. Were so many fewer of those than when I first came on board. I mean, there was just, I’d say, just an array of activities that we said, Well, we do that because it’s, you know what a chamber does? Well, let’s find out how we can turn that into a revenue, revenue generating mechanism for organization that allows us to do that and also supports our other operations and activities. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 28:35
I appreciate that perspective. I think hopefully that’ll help others that are, you know, facing those challenges to bring this on. How do we do this? Figuring out a way to pay for it, to make it all work, is super important. It’s, I

John Tayer 28:48
will say, Brandon. It’s a philosophy that just it. You know, even myself, you know, when I came in, you know, I will tell you that I wasn’t somebody who understood. I wasn’t, didn’t come up through the chamber ranks. I came into the organization and wasn’t clear on all the, you know, the Chamber financing tools and but was focused and compelled by the mission. And I think that’s probably most of the staff team members that that join. They want to serve and support our businesses. They want to achieve things that are important for our community and our economy. That said making sure that everybody has a mindset of generating revenue to then support and keeping some expenses at the lowest possible rate that allows us to perform our mission to do the programs and initiatives that we find so compelling and that lead us toward achieving our mission.

Brandon Burton 29:48
Yeah, that’s perfect. Well, as we shift gears here a little bit, I wanted to to ask for the chamber listening, who’s interested in taking their organization up to the. Next Level. What kind of tip or action item might you share with them? And as they try to accomplish this goal,

John Tayer 30:07
you know, I I listen. I first of all just, I say this with all humility, because there’s so many chamber leaders out there that I follow, and think I need to take that on so but what has been successful for I think our organization are a couple of really key elements. So one is that I do believe that there is a very critical need to represent business interests and represent them in a way that is constructive, that drives goal toward goal policy, goals that support our businesses, and I think, to the extent that that becomes a significant area of investment for chambers, to me, I’ve seen that propel colleagues around our region to much greater success and impact in their communities, and also a greater financial base. It’s it’s the larger businesses, the ones that have the capacity to invest in your work. They want to see you speak up on their behalf to help make sure that their businesses can operate most efficiently and effectively in their community, and at the same time they they want to be represented responsibly in a way that isn’t, you know, you know, hell with business interests. I mean, we have, I always joke that we have these beautiful flat irons that are the back backdrop to our community and really the the symbol of our our communities, just beauty. And, you know, I joke that, you know, we’re never going to be the chamber that says, let’s, let’s tear down the the flat irons and sell off that sandstone, because it’s really good for business. No, we are about long term business vitality and economic strength and the vitality of our community for the long term. So for me, that’s the character of advocacy that I think is so important for our business. In addition, I then move toward the economic vitality side of the equation. And to me, it’s not just the classic business retention and attraction and for us strong strengths and data collection and understanding the vitality of our community, but it’s the programs that have a broader, long term impact on our community, things that aren’t going to be addressed in you know, either a single, you know, you know, one month action or activity, but also aren’t things that are just part of your daily work. So for example, we have homelessness has become an issue in our community, housing costs are significant challenge for for our workforce. So we took on what we call the greatest challenges to our economy and to our community under the umbrella of what’s called the boulder Together program, and that initiative is allowing us to describe and define those issues that are of most concern to our businesses, and then attract resources that help us to tackle them for specific goals, to to for for Our community and for our economy. And so we’ve, you know, now in our seventh year, I think seventh year, yes, seventh year of Boulder together, and we’ve been able to see really important progress in transportation programs, in housing generation and in we developed an entirely new workforce development program through the boulder together umbrella, and I’d say that’s the message to our to fellow colleagues, and I know a number of them are doing this, but it’s instrumental to our success, and that is identifying the greatest challenges that our businesses have for their success and their their vision for the future, and then outreaching to them for support to tackle those issues with specific programs and initiatives that, to me, has helped to define Our organization as a leader in much broader scope of activities that I don’t think are typical for a chamber organization. I

Brandon Burton 34:49
love that answer that identifying those biggest challenges and go attack it. Yeah, go, go after it. Go get it. And I, I wrote down the the comment you made about the. Character of advocacy. I love the way you said that, and I think that resonates very well, John, as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

John Tayer 35:13
Yeah, well, you know, listen, I’m a chamber believer. And you know, when I think about the state of our society, and that the challenge we have in communities, but nationally, internationally, just communicating and and getting folks together to address these very difficult issues. I see Chambers as becoming the place where we come together diverse perspectives, but with understanding that we have common goals. We want our businesses to be successful, we want our economy to thrive, and we want our communities to be wholly sustainable. And so a chamber organization has become that unusual place in society now where you can bring folks together in a in a in a in a in a problem solving nature brass tacks not not no fluff, but really pointing toward solutions that are actionable and drive toward positive results together. And I find that that’s just the the opportunity for chambers, especially in this day and age, it’s, it’s, it’s a community center, and it’s a place for achieving results that in many ways are are even our government entities are not capable of given the the consternation at the political sphere. So I see chambers evolving and developing to become bigger players in a whole array of community issues that impact our economy and business success. So I’m bullish on where we position ourselves for the future, and I’m just excited about just, of course, our own chamber. But just chambers writ large,

Brandon Burton 37:14
it’s a great vision. I love it. John, I wanted to give you a chance to share any contact information for listeners who may want to reach out and learn more about how you guys are approaching things there in Boulder. What would be the best way for someone to reach out and connect with you?

John Tayer 37:29
Well, I’m glad to reach or be connected with on LinkedIn. You can find me John, John Taylor, T, A, y, E, R, you can also email me directly at john.tayer@boulderchamber.com, and if you feel compelled, give me a call. 303-442-1058, and you know, I’ll just say this that I’m glad to respond to any questions. Just share what we know I was just emailing just yesterday, somebody on our team, and I said, Let’s do it. Let’s do that. R and D rip off and duplicate the work of other chambers. It’s just, you know, this is not a competitive business. This is a business of collaboration toward a broader vision of healthy economies, strong businesses and strong communities, and so anything that we can learn from each other and successes that we can share a newer to our common collective benefit. So I’m looking forward to getting any calls or questions folks have about the work we do, and I’m sure I’ll be reaching out to them after they call me and say, Well, how did you approach it? Right, right? Thank you for that opportunity. Brandon,

Brandon Burton 38:47
yeah, it definitely is a collaborative effort. So we’ll, we’ll make sure to get your contact information in our show notes for this episode make it easy for listeners to find you. But John, I wanted to thank you for spending time with us today and just, you know, shedding a little bit of light about how you guys are approaching things at the Boulder Chamber, the impact you’re making and those things that you guys do in Boulder so thank you for being with us today.

John Tayer 39:12
Your chamber does that. Just, you know that I’m sure your chamber, whoever’s chamber, does that too. Great.

Brandon Burton 39:20
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