Category: Culture

Leadership Programs with Debra Orner

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

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Our guest for this episode is Debra Orner. Debra is the Vice President the Cambria Regional Chamber of Commerce in Pennsylvania. She began her career with the Cambria Regional Chamber in 1998. She’s responsible for the Chamber’s external operations including events and programs. And among these is her professional pride and joy the John V Gunter Community Leadership Initiative. Prior to coming to the chamber, Deborah worked in public relations at St. Francis University and on the staff of the late Congressman John P. Murtha. Debra is past chair of the Pennsylvania Chamber of Commerce professionals, and has served on his board of directors since 2012. She was the first non CEO to be elected to this position. She has served as chair at the PACP professionals and leadership conference since 2013, and is also a member of the communications committee. Debra is also an IOM graduate. Locally, Debra is at the vice president of the Johnstown United neighbourhoods, which began as a community project of the leadership program. She also serves on the board of directors of several other local organizations. Debra, we’re excited to have you with us today here in timber tap podcast. I’d love for you to take a moment to say hello to all the chamber champions and share something interesting about yourself so we can get to know you a little better.

Debra Orner 3:25
Thank you, Brandon. As mentioned in my bio, this is my 25th year in chamber work. Never thought I’d have a job that long. But once I started, it was just it was just Kismet. And I love doing it. I can’t imagine doing anything else. And my chamber friends actually like to joke that I knew what I wanted to do when I was eight years old because that in the summer of 1977, our city suffered the third devastating flood in our history. And one of the things that came out of that was an advertising campaign that was put together by some local businessman. And some of it was funny like they were they will put up billboards that say were wet but not washed out. But the one that stuck with me was one that says we will rebuild together. And I’m not saying that I knew that Chamber of Commerce was a job you could have when I was eight years old, but I knew I was I wanted to do what those men did. So it just made a huge impression on me. And the other thing that came out of that was our congressman at the time had only been in office probably about two or three years. And where I lived during the flood was across the street from an elementary school that had a very large playground. And that’s where National Guard helicopters would land and that sort of thing. And I was able to witness our congressman landing at our at that playground and getting out and kind of directing things and starting the process and helping to shovel mud and that sort of thing. And that was Congressman John Murtha. So at eight years old, I was looking at this man like he was some sort of John Wayne and he was just one of my first heroes and then I ended up working for him. So it was kind of that was a pivotal event in my I live to kind of had an effect on my later years that I never could have predicted at the time. But so that’s why they like to joke that I knew what I wanted to do when I was eight.

Brandon Burton 5:09
Wow. So I hear a lot of stories about how people get into chamber work. But that is a unique one. So I appreciate you sharing that. And not everybody has that kind of experience when they’re a young child and being able to have those impressions stick with them into adulthood. So thank you for sharing that. Well, tell us a little bit about the Cambria Regional Chamber just to kind of set the table for our discussion give us an idea of the size of chamber scope of work staff budget, that sort of thing, just to prepare us for our conversation.

Debra Orner 5:44
We’re located in Johnstown, which is in Cambria County in Pennsylvania. And that’s about as the crow flies 60 miles east of Pittsburgh. We have about 650 members at the moment and our budgets around $650,000. And we have four full time staff people. And we do a lot with those four people, we have probably 10 major events per year. And a lot of programs in between, like most chambers, we have a governmental action program, we have a women’s issues program. And of course, the thing that’s my favorite is our leadership program. But we also have branched out into kind of becoming a digital media company, we have a pretty strong social media program. We are we do a lot with promoting our members via social media. We do a lot with video. So that’s something that we’ve been getting into the last four years when our new president Amy Bradley came on with her background in news broadcasting. So that’s something that’s been kind of new for us. But we’ve been we’ve been doing pretty well with that, in addition to the other traditional things that the Chamber of Commerce does.

Brandon Burton 6:52
Yeah, that could be a whole conversation within itself right there under the digital media. And

Debra Orner 6:57
absolutely,

Brandon Burton 6:58
you guys are taking there. As we in thank you for sharing the background there on the chamber and what you guys are involved with in the staff. And as we move forward with our discussion today, we’ll be focusing on with what we’ve alluded to a couple of times already through your bio and what you shared with your pride and joy of being in the leadership program. You guys have there at the Canberra Regional Chamber. But we will dive deeper into discussion about that and how you guys approach your leadership program that says to get back from this quick break.

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Brandon Burton 10:16
All right, Deborah, we’re back. So I’m curious to learn about the leadership program, it’s not often that you hear chamber professionals say that leadership programs are pride and joy. So I can tell this means a lot to you, it’s close to your heart. And I’m sure it’s because there’s been some big impact that’s come out of it. So share with us the approach you guys take and why it means so much to you.

Debra Orner 10:41
Well, I always joke with with my boss and my board of directors that I do leadership for free, and they have to, it’s everything else they have to pay me for, because I love the program that much. I actually took the program over, within two weeks of starting my job back in 1998. And back then, the program was only in its current format, about four years old. They had done a program in the early 80s. Back when corporate dollars for training were more easily had, they would bring in people like Lee Iacocca and Steven Covey, and it was more of an of a really higher level executive training. And it wasn’t a cohort group. The way it is now, back in about 1994 is when it when they started to form it into a cohort group where a group of about 18 to 24, people would go through a series of lectures throughout a nine month period. So then, when I took over in 1998, they also said, Well, a good way for you to learn how to run this program would be to go through it yourself. So my first year with the program, I was actually participating in the program, plus I was learning how to run it. And that was really unique. And I don’t recommend it to anybody because it was it was very confusing for everyone. For my classmates who didn’t understand that I was part of the class plus I was I was running the program and for me trying to be part of the class yet organizing everything. So that wasn’t probably the best way to go about it. But the following year, we instituted an overnight team bonding session. And that’s really where things took off. Because that really cemented the bonds the class would have with each other. And we had two amazing facilitators that I was lucky to have for almost my entire career here that really took the program to another level. And our program is a little different from other programs in that we meet twice a month. And we are skills based rather than the programs that typically have like a healthcare day or a Law Day where they go on basically like field trips to hospitals, and in court systems and that sort of thing. So our program is based around skills like project management, and we’ll do a session on soft skills, and we do emotional intelligence. And we do disk training, which a lot of other programs do as well, but we pair it with other sessions that basically benefit the person through professional development. So we’ll do honorable leadership and, and things like that. So we’re a little bit different from other programs. And we also do, the people that are in the program are required to work on a community project while they’re in the program. So we’ll we divide them up into groups of four, six people, they can choose to work on whatever they want to work on, we use a multi voting process for them to figure out what they want to work on. We give them some project management training at the end of the year. And from there, they run with it. And we’ve had some amazing projects over the years that have just touched 10s of 1000s of lives with the impact that they’ve had. And the the people that are in the program, sometimes the project means so much to them, we do a session at the end of the year where they have to do, they have to present their project to our board of directors. And they’ll do a session where they present to their classmates and their sponsors. And we’ve had grown men in the in the front of the class crying because the project meant so much to them. So it’s not just something we do to keep them busy. It’s something that really means a lot to them, and it ends up being something very meaningful to the community. This year, for instance, we have one group that’s working on building a pavilion at one of the trailheads here in town for one of our one of our hiking and biking trails. And we have another project that’s raising money for a project called the needy children’s shopping tour, which takes disadvantaged children and take they get to go shopping at Christmas time and they get to buy new things and it’s just it’s a really cool experience for everybody involved. And then we have another group that is raising money for an organization called wings for Warriors which is an organization that serves disabled veterans With all terrain wheelchair so they can still get out into the woods and do the activities that they enjoy before they were injured. And so that’s another project that’s that’s happening this year. And then we have a final project that is going to bring together some resources for first responders who we kind of tend to forget about them a little bit that they need some help, too, sometimes. So those are the just 404 examples of projects that our program does. And they will work on those throughout the nine months. And they don’t have to be finished with those by the end of the program. Usually they are. And sometimes the products are one and done. And sometimes the people continue to work on them past when they graduate from the program, which I think really says a lot for how much the project that they choose means to them. So that’s what I kind of think sets our program apart a little bit with some of the things that we do,

Brandon Burton 15:51
ya know, you you’ve covered a lot of things there is, as you talked about how the program’s laid out, but so if I understand, right, it’s a nine month program, you meet twice a month, so 18 times total throughout that that period.

Debra Orner 16:06
Yes, we meet we meet twice a month for half a day.

Brandon Burton 16:09
Okay. And tell us a little bit more about this overnight team building opportunity is that you guys set go somewhere off site, is it somewhere? Just how do you how do you come about that

Debra Orner 16:22
we did and actually the pandemic turned it from an overnight into just a two day session. But it’s still it’s still the same basic setup, it’s just, we don’t stay overnight anymore after after the pandemic happen. But we spend the first day basically with just team building activities and with them getting to know each other and kind of breaking down barriers, and really getting to know each other a lot more and what they what they have in common what they might want to work on for the next nine months. So it helps them to form their project teams. And then the second day is really when we spend putting the project teams together. So they’ll spend like the entire second day just discussing things like what does our area not have that if it did would make it a better place to live? Or, you know, what would you work on, if you knew you couldn’t fail those sorts of things. So we, we lead them through discussion like that, and then they they break down into areas of interest. And then from there, it’s all up to them, like what project they pick. So they might know that when they walk out on the second day, they might know for sure what they want to do. Some people come to the program with an idea that they want to do, and they just recruit people to help them. So and some people show up, and they have absolutely no idea what they want to do. And they’re they’re looking to be sold on something. So we have kind of all different methods happening there. But those two days are just so important because it really helps them bonded as a group. And a lot of times even sometimes we’ll have people from the same company that participate in the program in the same year. And people from the same company won’t know each other before they get to our program. So really, for the most part, these are 20 strangers who don’t know anything about each other. So we really take the time on those two days to help them get to know each other. And really, they walk out of those two days and their friends.

Brandon Burton 18:09
Very good. So that was my next question. So this is happening at the beginning of the leadership program to build those bonds, kind of build your teams select your products at a tone for the whole nine months.

Debra Orner 18:22
Yeah, we do that at the beginning. And then at the end of the year, we go back to the same site. And we do what we call a year on reflection. And that’s really their opportunity to kind of get their emotions out about what they’ve been through that year. And like the things that made an impact on them and just kind of talk it out and just really have a have a nice day, like a little Capstone session with with their classmates that they become so close to throughout the course of the program.

Brandon Burton 18:49
Nice. So you had mentioned that you’ve been blessed with a great facilitator, as you go about trying to figure out who facilitates a leadership program like this? What sort of traits are you looking for what what would make for a good facilitator for other chambers that are listening and considering building a similar program?

Debra Orner 19:10
Really, they just think it helps tremendously if they have a passion for the area, because that’s really what most leadership programs are trying to do is create something good for their community. And it also helps if if they like helping people develop, because that’s a huge part of what we do. So you really just have to have a passion for developing people and you have to really care about the community and the area and you have to want to see it get better. And we as Chambers of Commerce don’t often have large budgets and sometimes our facil facilitators most of our facilitators actually are volunteers with the exception of one person, everybody in my program is a volunteer. So we really have to be Find people and cultivate relationships with people who just genuinely just care. And that’s really, that’s really as simple as it is. Obviously, they need to have some proficiency in the thing you’re asking them to present on. But really, they just have to care. And they have to want to do it. And they have to have that volunteer capacity capacity themselves.

Brandon Burton 20:20
So I think that’s those are great things to consider. And like the passion for the community. And it made me wonder through this leadership program, it sounds like a lot of the skills like the skills based training, those sort of things that you’re going through, are I guess you can you can take it from one position to another, from one community to another, you’re developing leadership skills that are transferable. Are there other aspects, besides the project may be that are community based that are unique to your community? And maybe not, but I’m just I’m curious.

Debra Orner 21:02
Well, one thing that that I’m pretty proud of that we do with our program is we give them the opportunity to meet a lot of community leaders, because that’s who most of my facilitators are. They’re people who are business owners or leaders in some other way. And we also do a session on local government where they get to meet all of our county commissioners, and our city manager and our the community community and economic development director for the city will have the Director of Emergency Services for the county comm. So they get to meet people like that. And these are, again, community leaders who are giving back through this program by it. And that’s one of the sessions where I kind of call it the, it’s your opportunity to ask the why doesn’t someone or why don’t they questions, because a lot of times people just don’t understand why things are the way they are. And this is really just an opportunity for them to sit down and meet with oftentimes people who are elected leaders, and it just gives them a chance to form a relationship, and just to meet them and to see what their role can be in moving our region forward.

Brandon Burton 22:07
Yeah, I love that, like building those strong community ties. So the the year end reflection, that I can imagine that being kind of a high point, really to this whole program to be able to see the development to be able to look back at, especially going back to the same location that it all started right, then able to reflect back on that those beginnings, the relationships built the impact of their projects. You had mentioned grown men crying at the end, because they’re their program, what are some of those more impactful reflections that have kind of hit you over the years, as you’ve seen these people reflect on their their time in the program?

Debra Orner 22:53
Well, I always say that the people in the program, we’re going to learn more from each other than they will from almost any, any of us or any of the facilitators, because you get to meet the people who are doing the work in the community. And there’s just a lot of eye opening moments that you wouldn’t know about if you didn’t get to meet these people. And for me, just seeing the relationships that formed from people who didn’t, who wouldn’t know each other, except for this program, and who accomplish amazing things because they have met in this program. To me, that is just the most gratifying thing. And I think that’s what they get out of it as well is that people that they didn’t know, prior to be in the program, and they’ve accomplished these great things with. And a lot of times with the, with the, with the educational part, sometimes people will even tell me that it doesn’t apply to them right now. But years later, they went back to that training, and they used it. So it is something that stays with you forever. And that’s really why ours is more of a professional development kind of program. Because no matter who you work for, or where you go in your life, whatever community you’re a part of, this is yours forever. So it’s not just that it’s specific to our city or our county. We believe that you improve region by developing its people and by developing its leaders. And so that’s what we really try to do every single year in our program. Right?

Brandon Burton 24:21
I love that. So the question came to my mind is this is kind of your your baby your kind of pet project, right? There’s the leadership program. How do you I guess put the dividing line between what you do as an organizer and, and putting together this program versus the facilitator and their responsibilities and to where you’re not stepping on each other’s toes and identifying what your your respective roles are. How does that structure look with your organization?

Debra Orner 24:56
Really, I am just so fortunate with the people Will that are part of my program, honestly, we all just work so well together. And they know that I would do it for free. So that that helps to that they know what how much I love it, and how much how much of myself I put into it. But I basically recruit all of our all of our facilitators, which can be 18 per year, depending on on how many sessions we do. And, honestly, I just let them run with it, because they’re the experts in their field. So during the session, I don’t interfere with that, that’s up to them what they want to put it in their curriculum. Sometimes I helped facilitate that session in class, depending on on where the conversations going on try to help lead the conversation a little bit. But for the most part, our facilitators are just such professionals and they just care so much, there’s really no need for me to, to get involved in that part of it. And they let me handle all of the admin and that sort of thing and all of the communication and it just, it works really well together. And it’s just it’s it’s nothing but 25 years of cultivated relationships, that people know what we’re trying to do with this program, and they have just gone all in on it. And, you know, they have other things to do, they have other things they could be doing other than spending half a day with me. But they just, that’s just what great people they are. And so they take time away from their own businesses and at their own expense to come and share their expertise with our class every year. And I have facilitators that have been with me for really the entire 25 years. And I just think that’s a remarkable thing.

Brandon Burton 26:34
That’s fantastic. So as you go about recruiting facilitators, and I’m asking this for somebody who’s looking to build a leadership program at their organization, where are you looking in the community to everywhere from

Debra Orner 26:49
everywhere, and one of my favorite things to do is if there’s a graduate of the program that can teach something, I love to bring them back. And sometimes I have a list of people that I want to bring into the program, because I respect them as a person, and I want people to meet them and to learn from them. And sometimes I have a topic that I just really want somebody to teach, but I haven’t met that person yet. And really one of my favorite stories, I have one of money, one of my first friends that I ever made when I worked at the Chamber, he’s just a really good presenter. And you know, I’ve called on him in the past to present things. And the one year, I just had a really, things don’t always go smoothly. And I lost like three facilitators for you know, due to various reasons health and that sort of thing. And so I needed him to present a topic on or to present a session on public speaking for me, which was okay, and public speaking is kind of, that’s not really something that’s that unique, and you can get a lot of people, different people to do that. But the following year was the only the second year that we were going to present emotional intelligence. And back then that wasn’t something that was very common. And it wasn’t something that a lot of people, you know, were doing at the time. So I lost my facilitator for that session, probably 10 days before the session, and I just sat there, and I think I’m gonna have to cancel the session, because who am I going to get to present emotional intelligence is like, there’s like two people in the world that even know what it is, at this point.

Brandon Burton 28:18
tested your own emotional intelligence. Right?

Unknown Speaker 28:21
Exactly.

Debra Orner 28:22
So so this friend called me almost like 10 minutes later, and he said, Deborah was looking online at your at your syllabus for your leadership program. And I saw that you have emotional intelligence, and who teaches that for you? And I said, Oh, my God, why are you asking? He had just gotten certified in that like, I think two weeks prior. And I said, Oh, do I have an opportunity for you. So that was just somebody that I knew that it was just an existing relationship that I had that that I could peg into that slot. And another time I had, I had really wanted to include servant leadership in the program for some time, but just had not met somebody who could teach it. And so as you mentioned, I worked at St. Francis University, prior to coming to the chamber, and I still have some friends that work there. And so I was talking to one of them the one day, and I don’t know how the topic of servant leadership came up, but it did. And I had said how much I wanted to make that part of our program, but I just, I hadn’t found anybody to teach it yet. And she said, Well, you know, who could teach that for you? And I said, Who? And she mentioned, one of my alums, and I said, Oh, my God is so to see there, put them on the phone. And he wasn’t there at the time, but he did call me back. So he’s been teaching that session for me ever since. So it’s really just keeping your eyes open and seeing who’s around you and paying attention to what they do. If you’re friends with them on Facebook, or if you’re connected with them on LinkedIn, what do they post about? What do they seem to know about what do they seem to be an expert in? Or even just what are their interests because a lot of times people’s job isn’t necessarily their passion either. They can they can teach about something that’s not Not necessarily what they do for a living. So I’ve had that that happened as well. So it’s really it’s just a matter of using your own connections, and just just letting people know what you’re looking for what you want to do, what your goals are, and the people will help you get there.

Brandon Burton 30:16
That’s great advice. Deborah, is we start wrapping up here, you’ve, you’ve touched on some fantastic points as far as creating and building and nurturing a leadership program, it’s your chamber. What tip or action item might you have for listener who is interested in taking their chamber up to the next level?

Debra Orner 30:38
The best advice that I can give anyone is if you have a state association, and you probably do join it immediately and get involved if you’re not already, because nothing in my career has been more valuable to me than the Pennsylvania Association for chamber professionals. I learned more about this kind of work just sitting around with my colleagues over lunch and dinner, and possibly one or two late nights than I ever did in any classroom. Chamber professionals tend to be just the most generous giving people and they want you to succeed, and they will share with you and they will help you and they will cheer you on the whole time.

Brandon Burton 31:16
Absolutely. And, and that’s the only reason this podcast is a success is because the chamber professionals are so willing to share and, and share some of those best practices and tips and programs and things like you’re doing today. So thank you for that salutely. As we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Debra Orner 31:43
Well, I think one thing that the past few years has shown us is that and especially extremely epidemic, evident during the pandemic is despite their traditional nature, Chambers of Commerce adapt extremely well to serve our members. We have extensive extensive reach in our communities. And we tend to be extremely good listeners. And some of the hardest days we worked was when everything was shut down, because we were putting in so many hours trying to take care of our members. So we tend to be very good at adapting. And I think we will continue to do that to adapt to our members evolving needs. And the other thing that has been extremely evident the past few years is the importance of human connection. And that is something that chambers have always done exceptionally well. So I think as long as there are humans in business Chambers of Commerce will continue to be the conveners. And how we do that might change with the times, sometimes it might be virtual instead of in person. But I think that’s we’re going to continue to be the connectors.

Brandon Burton 32:44
Absolutely great points. And I would have to agree with the future chamber. So thank you for that. Deborah, I like to give you an opportunity, or really for the listeners who may want to reach out and connect with you learn more about the leadership program that you put on, what would be the best way for them to reach out and connect and learn more? Sure,

Debra Orner 33:07
they can email me at debra@crchamber.com. And you can reach me directly through our website, which is crchamber.com. Or they can reach out to me on LinkedIn. And I love to talk to anybody about leadership. So if anybody out there is has a program that they want to maybe adapt or if you’re looking to start a program I would love to help. I’ve helped several of my colleagues start programs that are going extremely well right now. So

Brandon Burton 33:35
very good. We will, we’ll get your contact information in our show notes for this episode so people can can look you up and we’ll have your LinkedIn profile LinkedIn in there as well. But I really appreciate you sharing these insights and lessons learned and your approach to leadership program. They’re at the Canberra Regional Chamber. And thank you for being with us today. Really appreciate it.

Debra Orner 34:00
Thank you, Brandon. I really enjoyed it.

Brandon Burton 34:02

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Culture with Miles Burdine

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to the Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your host, Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

Our title sponsor is Holman Brothers Membership Sales Solutions. Let’s hear from Kris Johnson, President and CEO of the Association of Washington Business in Washington State to learn how Holman Brothers has provided value for him.

Kris Johnson 0:41
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Our guest for this episode is Mile Burdine. Miles is a native of Kingsport, Tennessee, and he’s been with the Kingsport Tennessee Area Chamber since 1994 and was promoted to his present position of president and CEO in 1999 Miles other career was with the United States Marine Corps. After graduating from University of Tennessee with a degree in business administration, he served on active duty for seven years before resigning and his commission and joining the Marine Reserves after having served 30 years and now retired at the rank of colonel Miles has extensive training and experience in war fighting tactics, terrorism, security, civil affairs, and the challenges faced in the Middle East. Three of his deployments have been to combat environments in Beirut, Lebanon and 1883, Operation Desert Storm in Saudi Arabia and 91. And Operation Iraqi Freedom in Iraq in 2005. And 2006. Miles and his wife, Denise have three daughters and three granddaughters. Myles, thank you for your service, first of all, and welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. We’re excited to have you with us today. And we’d love for you to say hello to all the Chamber Champions and share something interesting about yourself so you can get to know you a little better.

Miles Burdine 2:51
Well, I’m Brandon, thanks for the opportunity first and yes, good morning to all the chamber staffers out there and chamber world and has really don’t really have much interesting about me, except perhaps of all three of my daughters named Laura and I’ve got two tattoos and locations that only people I want to see them can see them.

That’s about the only interesting thing about me. I’m not sure that’s even interesting.

Brandon Burton 3:17
Yeah, that’s good. That’s good. Well, tell us a little bit about the Kingsport area Chamber just to give us some perspective, maybe the size of the chamber type of work, you’re involved with staff budget, that sort of thing. Just to give some perspective, before we get into our conference.

Miles Burdine 3:34
We’re we’re relatively small community, there’s only about 55,000 in our community, but you go outside the city limits, of course, it grows significantly, but our chamber represents probably around 900 Different businesses or organizations. We’ve got a staff of 30 budget of 4.7 million and but I’ll add to that there’s about 31 million that actually managed by our, our accounting department, when you had other programs and projects and things that were involved in it within the community. And our list of programs, projects, events, things going on this building is quite long. We’re involved in the typical things that you might expect to chamber be involved in membership, of course, workforce development, government relations, or visit Kingsport program, small business development, sustainability, a healthy Kingscourt program list goes on and on and on. Things that go on inside the walls of this, this building.

Brandon Burton 4:41
Yeah, you’ve got your work cut out for you, you and your staff.

Miles Burdine 4:46
Pretty much. But you know, I look forward to coming to work every day. 28 years, I still look forward to coming in every day. Good.

Brandon Burton 4:53
And I think a lot of that will have to do with our topic for discussion today around the culture that you guys have built They’re at the Kingsport area Chamber and we’ll we’ll dive into that discussion a little bit deeper since we get back from this quick break.

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So Miles we’re back. And as we get into our topic for discussion today, culture is it’s an important thing at any company and especially at a chamber where maybe we don’t always have the you know, all the resources to be you know, super competitive on pay or, you know, things like that. So getting a little bit creative with the with how the office works, how the culture, the teamwork, how that all fits in and being able to attract and keep the right talent in your organization. We’d love to learn more about what you guys are doing there in Kingsport to develop the culture at your chamber.

Miles Burdine 8:33
Well, very well said, Brandon, we’re very proud of the culture we’ve created here. No, it’s been said the culture culture, Trump’s strategy, but part of our strategy is our culture. And I went back and look to see how many employees we’ve had. We have our 30 employees. About a third of them have been here over 15 years. Wow. I’m very proud of that. Now, along with that, however, some of the younger ones that we hire, we know that in fact, this morning, I did an exit interview for 28 year old, it’s found a better opportunity where he can make a lot more money and he has met not that he need my blessing, but he has my blessing. So I’m excited for him. But you know that the younger ones we are unable to keep as long as we’d like. And that’s just simply because We can’t pay them as much as they can make out in the private sector. But they they always come to me Xander view and we talked about why they’re leaving. And they’re always very, very favorable comments about working here. And that goes back when when we get ready to hire someone. They’ve already already been through an interview process with whoever is going to be their supervisor, but by the time they get to me they’ve already learned the things I’m I’m gonna tell you right now and that is you get a free job interview every day and this is this business because you’re around volunteers that can possibly offer you a better option. Anybody and encourage them to seek those opportunities to. And if you decide to pursue them, I’ll help you find another job a better paying job. But our culture is one of when I’m when I meet with them, and they’ve already learned this, but I’m looking for someone who they are I know they already have the skills, but I’m looking for someone who has the attitude. As someone who doesn’t step over piece by piece of trash, they pick up the piece of trash, and they show up to meetings early. So they can help set up and then they leave the meeting later so they can help put the room back to where it was. I’m looking for positive attitudes, as my father used to say, I’m an optimist, because I choose to be. And I tell them, what’s your dash to make a difference? Have you ever read the book the dash? Yeah, so you know exactly what to study. Right. Exactly. Right. So

Brandon Burton 10:54
and they usually don’t know birth and death for those listening, right?

Miles Burdine 10:58
Yeah, that’s correct. That’s correct. Yeah. And so but the dash is what’s most important part of its of your tombstone, if you will. And I’ll always give them the military analogy is the Marine Corps approach was and approach still here is, I want you to take that hill. And we’ll give you all the weapons ammunition and Chow you need in order to do so to get halfway up and you run out of bullets, let me know I’ll bring them to you. But I’ll leave you alone when you get to the top of the hill, holler. And we’ll drink a bill beer and celebrate. So giving them what they need in order to be successful, but holding them accountable to being successful as well. Okay, thank you. And, you know, a couple of the things that I’m really proud of our titles here. We always believe that people don’t follow titles, they follow courage. In fact, that’s my, my challenge coin those very words. But we don’t use administrative assistants, we only have the word assistants and they have our titles we use ministry professionals, the lady at the front desk is not a receptionist, she’s director of first impressions. We’d like to say we work with we don’t work for we all work for each other. And we don’t care who gets the credit. We do expect supervisors to take the blame for things that go wrong. And our our motto here is never above you, never below you always beside you. And it’s worked well. For us. It’s worked well for us. We’ve also got some staff committees that are set up and they’re led, usually by a younger staff members give them opportunity to lead when called fluff and puff. And that’s all they do is put on parties, gatherings, showers and puff I like lots of puff, I don’t know who came up with that. It’s certainly not something I came up with. But, you know, things that we can do that to get the staff together to have fun fact our Christmas party was supposed to be today, we had to postpone it to next week, because we’ve got so many people out sick this week that we have professional development committee and various other internal committees that give opportunities for everybody to participate in leading this organization. We encourage everybody to volunteer, I mean, we expect our volunteers to be here to volunteer for us. So we expect our staff to volunteer as well. And they, they certainly enjoy it. We have a policy here called Bring Your Baby to Work. We actually had some research done on it. And obviously it was done by someone who was about to have a baby, right? And came back and said, Here’s how we can do this. So we allow new mothers to bring the baby into work. And we’ve even got a room set up where they can breastfeed it, the only problem we ever have is people arguing about who gets to hold the baby. Right?

Brandon Burton 13:59
They can become distractions at times but good team building too. So that’s good.

Miles Burdine 14:04
We’ve also got a policy here called leave loudly. My My office is actually in the back corner next to the employee interests. And so we encourage employees not to try to sneak off to go to a soccer match or go watch a Christmas show or whatever with the kids. So they’ll stand outside my door here holler. I’m leaving, because I’m gonna go watch my son, practice basketball. And we celebrate love it. I know they’ll get the job done and I don’t care when they get the job done. So, yeah.

Brandon Burton 14:40
So you’re hitting on a ton of great points here. And yeah, I think some of these are definitely worth circling back to so one of the the thoughts that came to me as you were talking about as you hire people, that, you know, how do you hire culture versus developing culture? Then any thoughts on that?

Miles Burdine 15:03
Hiring culture. You know, finding the right people is finding people with the skills is not difficult. But finding people who match your culture sometimes can do. But typically, we as a as an organization, and me individually, I keep a list of people I see out in our community, whether it’s a server, who’s done a great job has, in fact, we hired a server like that one time and one of our community, our staff parties, and I just liked the way that person handled themselves and how hard they worked and ended up eventually calling them in and gave him an interview and hired. Um, so I guess the moral to that is you just never know who’s watching. That’s right. And who, you know, one of the things we like to be proud of here, too, is like to tell her what to do you know what the custodians name is? And they wonder what I vote yes, that is the colder you are no unimportant people. No unimportant task. In fact, I give a leadership presentation. It’s called scrubbing toilets with enthusiasm. It’s, it’s about learning how to follow from people you’re supposed to be leading and speak about. Daughter, I’m supposed to be leading her. But she taught me some great lessons in life and Lance Corporal in the Marine Corps, third Lord, third, lowest rank in the Marine Corps, my dog, people you’re supposed to be leading, influencing and teaching and so they do the same to you. And often, I get asked, you know, what did you learn in the Marine Corps, and it’s helped you in your job, and it certainly wasn’t learning how to say an Arabic Stop, or I’ll shoot that hasn’t helped me at all. But you know, the Marine Corps taught me some very, very valuable lessons most one of which is learning how to follow before you learn how to lead that first one, and first one out. Last one to eat, you don’t get to eat if there’s not enough, and probably the most important that wasn’t absolutely successful. And this is bringing everyone home safe. But all of those things are important lessons to be learned that have helped me in my career as Kingsport chamber.

Brandon Burton 17:27
Now, those are, again, you’ve got, you’ve got a lot of these great one liners that you can really dive deep on and it really digest more meaning in that so you know, the idea of having no one important people, I’d love to learn to follow before leading and never above or below, but always beside you. So these are are things that are obviously are being taught there at your chamber. So through the onboarding, are you introducing some of this culture? Is it just being engrossed with the the nature there in the office? Or how are you helping to teach and develop the culture?

Miles Burdine 18:11
It’s a little bit of both, but typically, it’s someone who’s already aware of us. And they want to be a part of us. Not always, but often. And so they they know our culture, and they know what they’re getting into when they get here. And so they know what the expectations are. And, frankly, they want to be a part of it. So we don’t have to actually make them do it. I mean, it’s, it’s kind of, you know, just like in the Marine Corps here. If I tell someone to do it, they’re gonna do it. But I don’t want them to do it, because they want to do it. Because I told him to do it. And there’s a big difference.

Brandon Burton 18:49
So you know, the idea of like, the the titles and never having a job that’s above or below you, always beside it. Have you ever had as a staff member, that you had to have a conversation with a heart to heart, so to speak and say, Look, we’re all one team together, and we all have an important role to play, but you’re no important, no more important than anyone else. And

Miles Burdine 19:13
I need to step we know that yes. And actually did not follow my own advice, one particular occasion and that was when someone came to me and said, Why did not get why did I not get that promotion? And I said, I owe you an apology. And the reaction was, oh, yeah, you do owe me an apology. But I said, I’m not gonna apologize to you for not giving you the job, not apologize to you for not telling you what you need to do get to get the job. And it was one of those things I’d avoided and did not pull the person aside and tell them what they were doing wrong. Tell them to adjust their attitude. Tell them to quit being an eight to five or tell them to quit using all their sick days when I knew they weren’t sick. Tell them to help pick up trash. Tell them to show up from eight meetings early. I didn’t do any of that. And so therefore, all those things I just said they were doing. And so I apologize them for not leading them not teaching them what they needed to do is my fault. And I didn’t do it until they came to talk to me now to that person’s credit. They’re still in our community. And when I see them, they always come up and say, hey, yeah, I got to the meeting 10 minutes earlier today, or help pick up trash or I know the custodians name, whatever. So they learned, yeah, just unfortunately, that had not led them before.

Brandon Burton 20:37
So it’s never too late to learn those lessons, I guess. But I also I think the way that you went about owning that and saying I owe you the apology, and, and really reinforcing what that culture is, the things that you’re looking for, that are important to growing and developing, or developing a team that has that cohesiveness and ability to work well together. Thank you a great example. So I like to think of the the chambers out there who were, you know, wanting to take their chamber up to the next level, what maybe tips or action items might you have for them that are maybe looking to instill more culture or more of a defined culture into their organization?

Miles Burdine 21:27
I thought a lot about that when he asked me earlier, and really the only thing I could come up with is very simple. Put your employees first makes you looking at a book saying okay, this pile of books, some have read some, some I haven’t it’s the title is put your employees first, your employees or work harder for you. There’ll be more loyal. They’ll do things you want them to do if you put them first. And really rather simple. And the other thing I thought about sometimes we as chamber, employees, chamber execs, especially wonder whether or not we’re making a difference, whether or not we’re in the right industry, whether or not we’re improving our community, providing better live better lives for our citizens or developing our businesses. And, you know, I’ve had that feeling before too. And what I will usually do is go find someone who’s recently moved to our community, and asked him, Why did you move here. And boy, it just makes me feel so good. Because they tell you the things that we’ve all taken for granted. While this is a wonderful place to live, and it’s there in every community, so I feel better once I talk to them.

Brandon Burton 22:38
And that’s a yeah, you can feel better, especially if they mentioned things that you’ve been working on focusing on to further develop your community. But I think that also gives you some great material to go forward with whether, you know, I’ve heard that some of the best marketing material for a company or say, even for a chamber to help spread the message of what the work that you’re doing, is to use the language of the people that you’re trying to serve. So as you go to those new people and ask them what made you move to our community, and you can take that language, you know, what is it that that drove them to come to Kingsport and then to be able to repurpose that put that back out in the community. So you’re you’re speaking that same language to other people who may be looking for that fit to you know, in a future move or whatnot. So

Miles Burdine 23:30
well said we actually, you know, one of our networking breakfast called fourth Friday breakfast, which we copied off the Bristol chamber, which is the first Friday breakfast. Okay, we’re good at stealing from each other anyway. We started a part of the the event, it’s a networking event, but we also have a presentation that will have little segments and we have one on there called fresh set of eyes. And it’s a newcomer to the community who stands up and talks for three minutes why they chose to live in Kingsport, Tennessee. And you can see the people in the audience who’ve been here forever. Look it up going, Man, I forgot about that. I feel good about where I live.

Brandon Burton 24:12
That is awesome, fresh set of eyes. So it’s anyone listening doing your r&d right now? That’s a good one right there a fresh set of eyes, you know, it’s at a luncheon or whatever it may be set aside a few minutes and have a newcomer to the community share what they love about the community went through them there. That is a that is awesome. I love that one.

Miles Burdine 24:34
I guess Brandon, the only other thing I might suggest is, you know, no community is perfect. We certainly are not. But one of our attitudes here is we we seek the problems to help solve them. We may not be leading the solution, but we’ll always be at the table. You know that old saying around chamber world if you’re not at the table, you might be on the menu. There’s a lot of truth to that. We’d like to be at the table because we feel like that chamber, that chamber brand helps us to get people around the table who can solve community problems. And we want to be at the table, we may not be the only solution, but we can certainly help to solve community problems. So don’t run from them seek them out.

Brandon Burton 25:22
Absolutely. In the chamber world is one of the few examples I can think of seek out problems to solve. So that’s awesome. Well, Miles as we look to the future, how do you see the future of chambers of commerce and their purpose going forward?

Miles Burdine 25:42
I think it depends on the community, but our brand, that word Chamber of those words Chamber of Commerce, it carries a lot of weight, cares, a lot of Worcester, last is Arabic for influence. So it’s up to us to as chamber execs to just how much influence we can have. And that’s dependent depends on the individuals who are within the organization itself. You know, volunteers come and go. And we obviously we need to support them and promote them and give them all the credit. But the important work most important works done by the staff. And it’s up to us to, to keep carrying that water forward. I think our brand is one that that gives us the opportunity to help improve the lives of others and businesses and community in general.

Brandon Burton 26:43
I love that. And when you talk about influence, I thought of a Casey Steinbacher is ebook from relevant to essential and she talks all about the importance of chambers, understanding their role in their community to be influencers. Then she talks about the you know, the 16 year old with the cell phone in their bedroom that has a social media following of millions of people and making a very healthy income by being an influencer. And she really talks about that that’s, that’s what Chambers of Commerce needs to be as a force for influence within the community. Identifying those needs, solving those problems and, and being influential. And I thought I had an idea when you were talking about that, talking about fresh set of eyes, this would be a great idea for a chamber to do a podcast, where they focus and you can call it fresh set of eyes and bring on those those newcomers to the community and tell why they came in and can be a short three to five minutes segment. And boom, you’ve got a way to influence your community and share those stories

Miles Burdine 27:51
is a great idea. I’m gonna go talk to Vanessa Bennett. She runs our leadership programs. And she does a podcast every week. But it’s usually focused on just people in general, talking about the things that they’re working on. But I hadn’t thought about doing what you just described, is a great idea.

Brandon Burton 28:09
Yeah. When she puts it out there, I’ll help share. So. Yeah. So Miles, this has been a fantastic conversation. I think it’s so important for chambers to be mindful and be intentional about the culture that they’re creating in their organization to be able to attract the right people as they hire, but also to retain those people. You know, like, as he said, about a third of them, would you say a third of your staff had been there? 15 years? Is that right? Yes. Yeah, that is awesome. I mean, you just don’t see that in companies anymore, let alone in the chamber world. So

Miles Burdine 28:47
no one’s been here. 36 years. Another one just retired this past summer, after 34 years.

Brandon Burton 28:54
That’s awesome. Yeah. And of course, you know, there’s going to be those times that makes sense where a staff member finds it another opportunity that helps to develop their career and you celebrate those and you hate to see him leave, you know, for selfish reasons. But you are glad to see them move on and continue to develop especially as they are able to serve others in the community hopefully, so

Miles Burdine 29:16
Well, the way I look at it, too is they had a favorable experience here. They’re out in the out wherever they are, and they’re one of our advocates now. That’s right.

Brandon Burton 29:24
Yeah. And oftentimes they end up being members to whatever business they go to. So well, Miles. I’d like to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for listeners who might want to reach out and connect and learn more about how you’re establishing culture at the Kingsport area Chamber what would be the best way for someone to reach out and connect with you?

Miles Burdine 29:45
Yes, sir. My direct line at work is 423-392-8807. My cell phone is 423-956-1988 everybody in Kingsports got it so you’re welcome to it as well. My email address is mburdine@kingsportchamber.org.

Brandon Burton 30:12
Very good and I’ll get all that in our show notes for this episode so people can click on click through those and scroll to the bottom of the shownotes for Miles contact information to reach out and maybe learn more about what what they’re doing there in Kingsport to be intentional about building a good strong culture but Miles is you’ve delivered a lot of great value today. I know this is going to be very helpful for a lot of chambers out there listening. So thank you for that. Thank you for sharing some time with us today on Chamber Chat Podcast and wish you the best as you continue to develop your team and establish that culture there in Kingsport.

Miles Burdine 30:51
Thanks for the opportunity Brandon.

Brandon Burton 30:53
If you are a chamber professional, please subscribe to Chamber Chat Podcast in Apple podcast, Google podcasts or Spotify. When you subscribe to Chamber Chat Podcast new episodes will show up in your podcast app each week as they are released. If you’re finding value in this podcast, please leave us a rating and a review in iTunes. But most importantly, please share Chamber Chat Podcast with your colleagues that are in the industry.

Your audience is waiting to hear from you as a convener of leaders and influencers champion for business and catalyst for change within your community.

If you are chamber professional, please subscribe to chamber chat podcast in Apple podcast, Google podcasts or Spotify. When you subscribe to chamber chat podcast new episodes will show up in your podcast app each week as they are released. If you’re finding value in this podcast, please leave us a rating and a review in iTunes. But most importantly, please share chamber chat Podcast with your colleagues that are in the industry.

Have you ever thought about creating a podcast for your chamber we always hear about how chambers need to be storytellers. What better way is there to tell the stories of your members and the work of your chamber than through a podcast? Your audience is waiting to hear from you as a convener of leaders and influencers champion for business and catalysts for change within your community. I just launched a chamber podcasts course with the goal to get your very own podcast started within 30 days. Visit chamberchatpodcast.com/pivot to learn more and to enroll in the chamber podcast course today.