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Category: Influence

Attract, Don’t Recruit with Christine Cribb

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Brandon Burton (00:00.536)
Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your host, Brandon Burton, and it’s my goal to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community. Our guest for this episode is Christine Cribb. And after a decade in the Chamber world, where she led the largest Chamber per capita in the entire state of Washington, Christine brought her signature spark and unstoppable energy to the Chamber to a chamber in the foothills of North Carolina. Last year, she made a bold move and stepped away from an industry she deeply loves and stepped into what’s next. Christine went back to school to earn her executive presence certification from Cornell University, launched her own boutique PR and strategy firm, Christine Cribb and Company, and poured her heart and experience into writing her powerful first book, Attract, Don’t Recruit, A fresh relationship driven roadmap for chambers and nonprofits who want to grow with purpose and energy. These days, she’s all about living fully and leading boldly by helping organizations connect with passion while soaking up every moment with her three amazing grandbabies. Christine brings energy, authenticity, and heart to every stage, every project, and every conversation. Get ready because Christine shows up with energy and

The room shifts when she arrives. So Christine, I’m happy to have you with us again here on Chamber Chat podcast. For those who are regular listeners, she was with us in episode 270 if you wanted to go back and listen to that. go ahead and say hello to all the Chamber Champions out there listening. And I always like to get the interesting fact about you.

Christine Cribb (01:44.143)
Hello Chamber Champions. and an interesting fact. Wonderful. Hello Chamber Champions. It’s such a pleasure to be here. Thank you so much, Brandon, for allowing me to come back on. An interesting fact about me would probably be that I spent 2020 during COVID in Italy. And I don’t want anyone to feel sorry for me because I drink lots of wine.

I learned how to cook authentically and it was probably the best adult timeout I had ever had. So there’s an interesting fact about me.

Brandon Burton (02:23.054)
of good food that I haven’t been there but I’m a fan of Italian food so how long were you there in 2020?

Christine Cribb (02:30.988)
I was there for an entire year. we were there when January, when it closed down in February. And then when the airports opened back up, I came home and did a nationwide search to go back into Chamber World. I really thought that there was no better time for chambers to be engaged and active and supporting small business than coming out of COVID for sure. Yeah.

Brandon Burton (02:56.088)
Yeah, absolutely. Well, tell us about your new venture, your new PR firm and the endeavors that you’re embarking on these days.

Christine Cribb (03:13.368)
Sure, sure. So you were cutting out a little bit there, but I believe you asked me what about after I left the chamber. Is that was that your question?

Brandon Burton (03:22.476)
Yeah, yeah, tell us what you’ve been up to these days with your PR firm and what you’re embarking on today.

Christine Cribb (03:28.298)
sure, sure. So I left the chamber last fall, just about this time of year. I left the chamber. visited with family all over the country and I was able to be present in my children and my grandchildren’s lives, which was really incredible. As everyone knows in chamber world, you’re balancing 27 plates and even though you’re visiting someone, you’re thinking of something else that should be done or needs to be done or did I tell somebody that? And so I was completely present. I came back.

I did go to school. went back to Cornell University and got an executive presence certification. And then I started my own. So I wrote my book January and February. I wrote my first draft and then started that entire process, which is phenomenal for anyone that wants to write a book. It’s just a great process of putting so much knowledge and story that you have to share that hopefully you make a difference to one person is incredible. So I wrote my book. I went back to school.

I started a little PR firm because I still have a great desire to help small businesses and businesses grow. And so instead of representing 600 members, I represent six. Six businesses that I can help put decision makers in front of them. I can give them exposure, public relations. It’s just delightful. It’s just a wonderful hands-on.

I am in charge of my own schedule. Don’t be envious, Chamber Champions, but I’m in charge of my own schedule. And I love the work so much. I still am absolutely passionate about helping businesses succeed.

Brandon Burton (05:08.13)
Yeah, and in this stage, you don’t have a board to report to or anything like that. So you’ve got a lot more freedom for sure. Yeah, I think.

Christine Cribb (05:16.93)
No board. Absolutely.

Brandon Burton (05:22.102)
I think this is the first time I’ve ever heard of the book writing process as being phenomenal from somebody. So you must have done something magical with the book. And a lot of other people talk about how strenuous it is and what a labor of love, those kind of descriptions. So I’m excited to learn about the book too. So most, go ahead.

Christine Cribb (05:41.707)
Right.

Christine Cribb (05:45.869)
super

Christine Cribb (05:50.242)
I just wanted to share that I thought I wanted to write a book. I wasn’t as secure in it until I did the research and realized that I had a story to tell and somebody will benefit from this story. And when I put it out to beta readers, the nicest compliment was, we can hear your voice. can hear that people could hear my voice in my words. And I thought, I’m going to share it.

I am not a literary virtuoso by any stretch of the imagination. I’m a Midwest girl. I speak in run-on sentences. I speak way too fast and I’m in the foothills of North Carolina. So be know that my editor constantly was slashing run-on sentence, run-on sentence, stop it, slow down. anyway, I did enjoy the process and it was, it’s my first of many books, I think. So I guess I enjoyed it where other people.

might have found it to be a challenge. I enjoyed it.

Brandon Burton (06:46.99)
That’s great, yeah, and other people say, I’ll never write another book again. And you’re just saying it’s the first of many.

Christine Cribb (06:48.653)
I also did lots of, Brandon, also did a lot of Yeah, rookie mistakes. So people, you you make mistakes. The first time doing something, you make mistakes. And I made a few. So, but it was a good lesson learned for sure. Yeah.

Brandon Burton (07:05.228)
Yeah, that’s great. So we’ll spend most of our conversation today talking about the theme of your book is attract. Well, it’s the title, but it’s the theme that we’ll carry on for this podcast recording is attract. Don’t recruit. And the importance of that.

When you look at it through a chamber lens, through a membership organization lens, I think it’s a great idea, a great concept, and great principles that we’ll dive into as soon as we get back from this quick break. All right.

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Brandon Burton (07:39.31)
All right, Christine, we are back. So as I mentioned before the break, we’re talking about attract, don’t recruit. So this is the title of your book, but tell us about how that title came to be, how that became the focus for your first book and what some of those lessons are that you share.

Christine Cribb (07:55.833)
Sure.

Super, thank you so much for asking. So a track don’t recruit came to me when I was coaching a membership position at my second chamber. I was coaching her and she said, so-and-so is not a member. I want to go get them and pitch them. And I said, you know, what’s interesting is that we doubled the chamber numbers in Cleveland County. And I never ever knocked on a door, handed a card.

said you’re not a chamber member come and visit me. We created energy and momentum that people leaned in and they came in and one by one we met every single one of them met with me.

They felt the benefits, they could see it and feel it, and they wanted to be part of it. The best example why I knew this was a track don’t recruit had to be the title, Brandon, is because in about my second year at this chamber, a woman came in and said, I can see so much energy on Facebook. I want to be part of this.

And I knew then that we had a little magic momentum going on and that needed to be the name of the book. Of course, I didn’t even know when I would be stepping down and retiring then, but I just knew then I would write a book and it would be called Attract Don’t Recruit. It would be all about infusing energy and making sure that people that ran chambers knew that they are the energy. They are responsible for managing up and managing down. They are the energy for their entire organization.

Christine Cribb (09:36.11)
So that’s kind of the meat and potatoes of the concept of how it got the title. And then it just evolved after that. would think of a topic like one of the most popular chapters right now that I’m getting feedback from is knowing your why.

Everyone talks about that. You really need to dive into why you do what you do and it empowers you to feel so much more authentic and convincing when you’re talking to someone when you understand your why. The other chapter that’s getting a lot of attention is the risky business I call it and it’s about taking risks. If you stay in the same mode you’re in, you will be in the same spot you’re in

two years from now, but if you take a risk and do something you’ve never done before. And in the book I share great risk takings. have a couple of really funny stories and then I share some failures. Like I can be completely bombed on something and it’s okay because at least I took the risk in doing it.

Brandon Burton (10:43.584)
Yeah, I like that. And with highlighting those two chapters, the why understanding your why is going to give you that drive that motivation to create that energy that you’re talking about, but also the risky business aspect. I’m sure there’s precautions, there’s things you need to look at. So you’re not just being, you know, totally flagrant with what you’re doing. But the risky business when you do something that’s exciting, it’s going to build that excitement that’s going to draw that attraction. Is there more that

can talk on on those two topics and building the energy around those those ideas.

Christine Cribb (11:20.599)
Absolutely, the risky business most importantly is that it’s strategic obviously and well vetted. I’ll share one really funny story. I was asked by a local community college to do a TV show.

and on Chamber World and Small Business. And so I went to my advisory committee, who is our board members. They’re the group that hired me and I wanted them to stay involved and I created an advisory committee. So the one, the chairman of the board said, let’s go drink some bourbon. We’ll have some bourbon brainstorming going on for, to discuss this. Well, I’m not a bourbon drinker.

So the host was about four doors down from where I live in my neighborhood, went to the bourbon brainstorm meeting. In five minutes, we decided that this TV show was not in our lane. We were not going to do it. and I agreed with that, but I just wanted it really well, once again, well vetted to take a risk of my time and energy. Right. And so I did drink my first old fashioned and I probably drank two of them.

Brandon Burton (12:33.804)
Okay.

Christine Cribb (12:36.347)
I then took something out of a jar and ate it and said, is the best grape I’ve ever tasted. And one of the men at the event said, at the meeting said, should we let her know that that is a bourbon soaked cherry? So that tells you that I was, I was enjoying that old fashioned.

On the way home, it was this time of year, on the way home, was kicking the leaves, walking home, and I had the brainstorm idea that we needed those gentlemen loved their bourbon. We needed to have a bourbon, gentlemen’s bourbon dinner. And we were looking for a way to raise capital funds to take care of the building.

So between within 24 hours, I was creating a gentleman’s bourbon dinner, tasting and dinner. I secured everything secured a sponsor, started to pull it together, pitch the board and said, let’s just try it. If it fails, it fails. But if let’s try it because of what I saw resonating with how much these gentlemen love their bourbon. So sure enough, we did it. I think it’s still in place now at the chamber and might be its fourth year.

that it’s happened, but it’s taken a risk. mean, we were adding alcohol in the Bible Belt in the foothills of North Carolina, and it was a huge success. We raised a lot of money, started the renovations on the building. It was fabulous. But that’s one example.

Brandon Burton (14:02.764)
Yeah, I think last time you’re on the show, we actually recorded the day after you had your bourbon event. it does, yeah. I believe so, I believe so. So I remember the energy coming from that, so yeah.

Christine Cribb (14:11.564)
That’s great. That’s great. Was it the first one? Was it? I think it was the… my gosh. That is great. that’s… Yes, that is one story that’s in the book. The other story I’ll tell share a failure also because everybody needs to take a risk of failing for sure. Coming out of COVID, there were so many positions that were open.

Brandon Burton (14:32.076)
Yes.

Christine Cribb (14:41.74)
Brandon that businesses needed employees. And so I thought, well, we’ll have a Friday career cafe. We’ll open up the chamber. We’ll have businesses set up little tables. We’ll have people come in that want to work that are seeking jobs. Well, we had businesses want to come in and they did great. They sat there, they visited with each other, they networked and we had tricklings of people coming in interested in looking for a job. And what that told me

was that our lane was not in the people looking for work. We did not work well in bringing those people in. We needed to leave that to the people that do that, NC Works. We needed to leave that to the groups that are part of unemployment and helping people get jobs and partner with them. We didn’t need to do something solo. So we tried it for three months and

And it was not successful and I was okay with that. At least we tried it and then we were able to partner with other organizations to help fill some of these positions for businesses. But we took a chance.

Brandon Burton (15:51.235)
Yeah.

So I think, and I like that example, it makes me think about even from the employer standpoint, when you interact with businesses or for those listening with your member businesses, the practice of attracting and not recruiting is beneficial even in the hiring process, when they are looking to bring on employees. I see this firsthand right now, my wife is applying for jobs and stuff and it’s tough when some of these businesses are not

trying to attract, you know, they’re they’re doing more of the recruiting style instead of, you know, showing how attractive they are and drawing people to them. And then they have the same problems all the time of, know, we just don’t have enough people or we can’t, you know, retain people because they’re not attracting. So I think there’s parallels from the membership organization to the employer standpoint as well. But it looks like you have an idea to expand on.

Christine Cribb (16:29.03)
Alright.

Christine Cribb (16:37.393)
Hmm.

Christine Cribb (16:49.57)
Absolutely.

Absolutely, I do because when you’re applying for a job You want to know also what’s in it for me your wife wants to know? What are you offering me? Not just what you need. I need you to and the old job description is not enticing anymore, right? And we just want to know is there family flexibility is there?

you know, what are the perks of working for you, not just hone in on what do you need? I think that’s really important. And I think there’s businesses that are definitely shifting to that because they want to attract the right people, not just fill a position, right? And then not as much with seeking employment, but with the membership aspect.

It’s all about relationship building, right? It’s about making somebody feel so incredibly valuable in your organization that they want to be part of it.

We worked really hard on, and it’s in the book of not, we tried never to say the word no. If someone asks for something and everyone in Chamber Champions, you know, people ask for things all the time. When someone would say, do you know what the Chamber should do? I would think, wait, am I sitting back eating bonbons? I don’t think so, right? You know what the Chamber should do. Anyway, I think,

Christine Cribb (18:19.674)
that relationship building. lost my train of thought there because that was so funny to me. I remember people saying that, but it’s all about relationship building for sure. Cultivating relationship that people want. and we never said no. So we had a list of things that we don’t do. Brandon, we didn’t say we can’t do that. That’s not our job. If somebody said, can I pay my electric bill here? Well, obviously you cannot pay your electric bill at the Chamber of Commerce, but instead of just saying no,

Brandon Burton (18:23.874)
Right, yeah. You talked about never saying no, right?

Christine Cribb (18:47.26)
Our front desk gal, the administrative assistant, Catherine, would walk the person out the front door, share with them going down to City Hall. They could pay their city bill, write down one block down, take a left, it’s right there. She would try to over deliver. She would not just simply say the word, no, we don’t do that. Then I had something called, can I say a bad word?

Brandon Burton (19:12.814)
Sure, we’ll clean it up if we need to.

Christine Cribb (19:15.022)
Okay, I said.

Clean it up if you need to, but we would have something in an email. People are so busy and they have so many emails. I would tell staff, just deliver a shit sandwich. Deliver a really nice opening. Be a nice, warm, hello, thank you so much for the email. Then get to the point without saying the word no, you’re dreaming. We can never do that. We’re a chamber of commerce. Deliver what you can do, not what you can’t, and then end it very, very positively. So I better come up with a new name for that, but that was the philosophy.

also no negative words never saying anything ill about your board somebody else your employees your members just keeping it so Genuinely positive that once you’re in the habit of not doing that. It’s like a piece of cake Yeah, and that infuses energy by staying positive all the time. Yeah

Brandon Burton (20:09.016)
and you’d rather have a cake than one of those sandwiches.

Christine Cribb (20:11.996)
Right. That’s right. That’s right. I also had a really special moment on the I have a chapter called train and trust. And in that chapter, I share a story about someone who’d worked for me that had been in chamber world for 11 years. And I took her to the first chamber conference, her first.

And when she came back, she bloomed in such a beautiful, incredible, empowering way, giving her some tools that she was able to go someplace for three days and speak the language of chamber world. Not only leaders and board members need to go to those, but when you bring your staff…

to an event like that, they feel so empowered when they get home and she bloomed, she was already phenomenal, but she even bloomed even more, more so. So that empowerment, the train them, give them the training and then trust them to do their job is really great.

Brandon Burton (21:16.342)
Yeah, I love that. So from a membership perspective, does the train and trust, does it have applications there as well when you’re trying to attract rather than recruit?

Christine Cribb (21:29.058)
Absolutely, so we, two things happened that taught me about this. The first was at my first chamber and a really great supporter and mentor of mine, Dan Aulis from Would Be Coffee, he came in and said, your structure is wrong. You have a membership coordinator, but you are on top of her all the time and wanting to make sure that every new member meets with you.

Why don’t you make her events coordinator and you just take membership? Because these people are coming in the door and they want to talk to you. So we actually changed the structure. Then when I got to North Carolina, there were only two of us at the time. So I absolutely met with every single new member. When we were able to grow, we hired a membership coordinator. And that is when I started to share that attract, don’t recruit. They’re walking in the door. Our job is to give.

not just sign that person up, but cultivate that relationship that makes them feel like they belong. You don’t need to be out on the street knocking on doors to people that don’t know what the chamber is. Let the domino effect, the energy in which you’re projecting, let that trickle down through your ambassadors, through your board, through your brand new members that just thank you. They thank you for these benefits and they walk out the door and they tell other people and they walk in the door. And it doesn’t happen overnight. We were coming out of COVID.

You know, I think on that first podcast I did, I shared that we were coming out of COVID. We had 14 events and that year coming out of COVID and within two years we had 149. I mean, we just set things on fire, whether it was a ribbon cutting once a week, whether it was adding more events like the bourbon event and some other events that we did too.

And so it’s really, it takes a little while, but it absolutely is worth the stop trying to beg people to join your Chamber of Commerce.

Brandon Burton (23:27.68)
Yeah, yeah, be attractive. Is there another key point or two that you want to draw out from the book before we wrap things up?

Christine Cribb (23:35.376)
Well, sure, one thing is, there’s so many cool things to share. But one is to make sure that you, one chapter is a refueling station, that you make sure you take time to take care of yourself. That is more critical than ever because that work is never ending and I’m well aware of that. When I could step back and be completely present in my children’s lives, I didn’t know that I was doing exactly what I told people not to do.

Brandon Burton (23:42.72)
I know it.

Christine Cribb (24:04.335)
which was just drinking from a fire hose, even though I thought I had it all together. The other thing is key performing indicators. When you start to brainstorm and take a risk, when you have key performing indicators that are valuable, not just the board wants to know how many members and how much money we have, use really good quality key performing indicators to help you determine your risk taking and the decisions that you make down the road.

And then there’s a whole chapter on time management because I tried every single one of them. There’s like 14 different tactics to manage your time. I’ve tried everyone. I’ve merged them. I’ve said this is never going to work for me, but there’s some great tools in there. And mostly it’s about really being the energy behind your chamber. You know, I have a hashtag called room shifter.

Like be a room shifter when you walk in a room people should light up you should be able to Attract the energy if you walk in a room and nobody’s walking up to talk to you You need to put a smile on your face and you need to start walking up to them and put shaking hands and working the room That’s not even beginning there’s 23 chapters brandon Yes, yes

Brandon Burton (25:17.687)
Right? Just hitting a few of the highlights, right? But I love the idea about being a room shifter because there should be an energy change and if there’s not, like you should take the energy you have and then go find those others that need to either have an infusion of that energy or just connect with that energy or whatever it may be, but it should change the tone of that room and show that what you’re doing matters, right?

Christine Cribb (25:24.111)
Yes.

Christine Cribb (25:36.813)
Yes.

Absolutely.

Yes, I also told people that if you’re not a networker, just come alongside me during an event and before you know it, you will be paired off with somebody that you had never met before. And if you yourself as a leader are not a networker, go find one. Go find one and learn how to do it. Really know how to work a room. You should light up that room when you walk into it. Yep.

Brandon Burton (25:54.35)
Great idea.

Brandon Burton (26:07.628)
Yeah, I love that idea. Christine, is a yeah, this has been great. You’ve hit on a lot of great ideas and topics and points from the book. I wanted to ask you for the Chamber Champion listening who’s wanting to take their organization up to the next level. What kind of tip or action item would you leave for them as they try to accomplish that goal?

Christine Cribb (26:10.884)
All right, the screen froze. There we go.

Christine Cribb (26:36.668)
I would like to tell them to start living like you’re a legend. Start energizing people, rooms, have over deliver in being authentic, but your energy, your positive energy shifts people, shifts rooms, shifts organizations. We all know the toolkit. We all have the rule. We’ve all read the books. We’ve all, we know how to run a chamber.

What you have to have is that authentic, genuine energy that takes it to the next level.

Brandon Burton (27:12.543)
I love that. It’s a great tip. So I know I had asked you this question when you were on the show before, but I like asking everybody for their current perspective. As we look to the future of Chambers of Commerce, how do you see the future of Chambers and their purpose going forward?

Christine Cribb (27:14.448)
Good. Good, good, good.

Christine Cribb (27:31.087)
I love it. I will look back and see what my answer was a couple years ago when I was here because it has changed. So when I wrote the book and I did some research on chambers throughout American history, what happened every decade was that chambers would shift their priorities across the country. They would shift.

what the priorities were depending on what was going on during that time. So I believe chambers will thrive and survive. Absolutely. I feel like they have to do it being open and willing to change and do things differently than they’ve ever done it before. So for example, obviously during COVID chamber was a huge part of workforce and knowing what was going on. The other thing would have been to be

I would tell Chambers to be a change agent. Be the change agent. If the future is AI, get on AI. Figure out what it is, offer classes, make sure that you learn everything that you can about it. If something’s going on in your county, get a seat at the table that lets you take the lead in being a change agent.

Brandon Burton (28:46.252)
Yeah, being able to just sit back and see the change happen is not going to serve your organization well. It’s not going to serve you as a leader. Well, you need to be that agent driving the change, recognizing where the future is going and be seen as that thought leader and that change agent. It’s ahead of the pack.

Christine Cribb (28:53.424)
No.

Christine Cribb (29:01.175)
Absolutely.

Absolutely. Yeah. And I feel like that’s, that’s, that’s phenomenal. That’s the deal maker is, is being able to get a seat at the table, to be part of what’s coming next, because there’s always something coming next. You can’t sit still for three, five, 10 years and think that you’re not going to have some changes going on that you need to be a major part of. Yeah.

Brandon Burton (29:30.22)
That’s right. That’s right. Find your original answer. Well, Christine, now the important question is for those listening who want to connect with you and learn more about attract, don’t recruit or where to pick up the book or connect with you, where would you point them and what would be the best ways to connect?

Christine Cribb (29:32.206)
Now you make me want to go back and look at my first video chat with you. I will look at that podcast for sure.

Christine Cribb (29:54.374)
Thank you.

Thank you so much. So you can purchase the book through Amazon. The name of the book is Attract Don’t Recruit, by Christine Cribb You can also reach out on Facebook in any time. I have a workbook coming out that’s going to be a companion workbook to the book, which will be great for directors, presidents of chambers. It’ll be great for board of directors and for staff. The workbook will have how to work your why.

really understanding your purpose and how to organize the time management aspect is in the workbook. That’ll be out by the end of December. So Facebook, but you can also reach me on my website is christinecribb.com. My next book will be announced on there. It’s called Mind Your Own Business. And it’s really for entrepreneurs that are trying to do a startup.

Brandon Burton (30:49.163)
Okay.

Christine Cribb (30:54.844)
you know, the people that say

I make a great lasagna, so I’m going to open an Italian restaurant. So it’s really a great guide for directors and presidents of chambers to guide entrepreneurs in the right direction. When you don’t know what you don’t know, you better find someone that does know, right? So that is one book. And then I’m going to write a book called Lipstick and Laugh Lines. And it’s about women that reinvented themselves after the age of 50. So if anyone has a great story,

of a woman who reinvented herself after 50 years old, it could end up in my book. And so if you think of the old chicken soup for the soul, I don’t think you’re old enough, Brandon, to remember that, are you? So if you remember, okay.

Brandon Burton (31:37.964)
Yeah, yeah. Well, that’s a great compliment, but yes, I do remember it.

Christine Cribb (31:45.457)
So Chicken Soup for the Soul, it will be that kind of stories. They’ll be small stories in there of women who reinvented themselves out of inspiration. So I got the bug to write books and so now I’ve got a couple more coming down the pipe. But ChristineCribb.com will get you to my website. Facebook will very easily message me on Facebook, follow me on Facebook. It’s really fun to watch what’s happened with the book.

We had 60 people come to the book launch at the chamber here in Shelby and I was overwhelmed. It was so humbling and exciting. Yes.

Brandon Burton (32:20.908)
That’s fun. That is really cool. Well, congratulations to you on getting your first book out there. We look forward to getting our hands on it, but also the future books that are coming out as well. And we’ll make sure to connect all your shout outs, your Facebook and website and Amazon and everything in our show notes. So it’ll be easy for listeners to connect and find the book and follow your journey. So this has been great. Thank you. You bet.

Christine Cribb (32:26.214)
Thank you.

Christine Cribb (32:40.592)
Thank you.

Christine Cribb (32:46.032)
Thank you so much. Brandon, thank you for this opportunity. Thank you.

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Chambers as a Lighthouse with Matt Appenzeller

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Brandon Burton (00:00.902)
Today’s guest is a dynamic, I’m gonna start that over. I forgot my intro. Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your host, Brandon Burton, and it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community. Today’s guest is a dynamic leader in the world of small business advocacy and economic development.

Matt Appenzeller is the executive director of the Southern Ohio Chamber Alliance, representing 127 chambers of commerce and helping thousands of small businesses access health insurance and other vital benefits. He also serves as plan administrator for the SOCA benefit plan, a statewide medical plan designed specifically for small employers.

Matt’s leadership journey includes serving as executive director of the Preble County Chamber of Commerce, where he spearheaded the creation of the Preble County Economic Development Partnership and was named community leader of the year in 2012. Passionate about cultivating the next generation of entrepreneurs, he also serves as president of the Board of Trustees for the Ohio Business Week Foundation, a hands-on business camp for high school students hosted at the Ohio University’s College of Business.

two decades of experience in sales and management and a proud seven-year tenure in the US Army, brings a wealth of knowledge, discipline, and commitment to service. He currently resides in Cincinnati with his wife Lauren. Matt, welcome to Chamber Chat podcast. We’re happy to have you on the show today. I’d love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the Chamber Champions out there listening. If you would share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better.

Matt Appenzeller (01:52.044)
Well, to share something interesting, I was stationed in Germany before and after the Berlin Wall fell. So I got to see it before and after.

Brandon Burton (02:06.437)
that how long were you there on either end of that mark in history?

Matt Appenzeller (02:10.397)
So I was there for a total of four and a half years and I had been there, gosh, I want to say like two and a half years, two and three quarter years when it fell and then finished out my actually second enlistment from there.

Brandon Burton (02:33.623)
I just, yes, yeah, yeah.

Brandon Burton (03:05.657)
Well, is a that is an interesting fact about you. In fact, just last week I met a German native who grew up and lived his whole life in Germany and talked about, you know, what a significance that was when the wall came down and just a life changer for for the whole the whole area. So very cool.

Matt Appenzeller (03:24.086)
Yeah, yeah, for the, yeah, I think that, you know, the concept of freedom, we all talk about that in our own country here, but, you know, think about a time when, you know, people in East Germany literally risked their lives just to get across the border. And if, you know, there were

It was a militarized zone and they were avoiding gunfire to do it. So that’s how precious freedom is.

Brandon Burton (03:54.989)
Yeah. Yeah, freedom’s a great thing. Awesome. Well, tell us a little bit about Soka. Help give us an idea of the organization, the size. I know your bio talked about 127 chambers that you guys serve, but just help kind of set the stage for what you guys do and who you serve and that scope of work you’re involved with.

Matt Appenzeller (04:17.166)
Sure. So the Southern Ohio Chamber Alliance exists to support Chambers of Commerce. So what we do is we cultivate relationships with insurance carriers, brokers, and other affinity partners so that we can offer cost saving and value added products and services to employers. But we do that through Chambers of Commerce, which helps the chambers drive membership.

and also drive non dues revenue for the chamber. Southern Ohio Chamber Alliance has been around now for, we’re in our, we’re in our 33rd year. I’ve been leading the organization for the past 13 years. know, typically our meat and potatoes is so to speak, has been through healthcare or health insurance. We’ve had a series of partnerships over the years. Currently.

You know, after the, the affordable care act was formed, us and some other interested partners got together to start a self-insured plan for small employers that gave the small employer like the same chance of the self-insured plan that a large employer would have. And Brandon, I got to tell you, it’s whenever I’m speaking about this in front of people.

You know, we thought that this would be a temporary thing until Congress sort of shored up some provisions within the Affordable Care Act as it relates to small employers. And about a year and a half into it, we discovered that, know what, Congress is not going to do anything anytime soon. So we went ahead and put our foot on the accelerator, so to speak, and it’s done very, very well.

It’s actually called a multiple employer welfare arrangement. That’s the legal term of the plan. And we’ve been able to serve over 7,000 employers in that health plan. And it’s a, it’s a privilege to be able to offer that kind of value. And we’ve gotten now, including our approximately, you know, 130 chambers, we, we have chambers throughout the state who also participate in that with us. And so,

Matt Appenzeller (06:40.024)
We’ve got about 275 chambers of commerce in Ohio that are helping with the distribution of that plan.

Brandon Burton (06:46.981)
When I think of over 7,000 employers and then break that down to the number of employees and families that that affects, that’s huge. That is a huge impact.

Matt Appenzeller (06:55.882)
It is. It is. We’ve been hovering around, you know, 50,000 employee lives for a really long time. And like you just said, I mean, it’s a big number and it’s a privilege to be able to do it.

Brandon Burton (07:16.771)
Well, for our topic of discussion today, just a little bit of background for listeners, Matt and I have gone back and forth on some emails and LinkedIn chats and different things. And I think even at ACCE last year, we talked a little bit, it was, Matt’s had some pretty neat ideas that we’ve gone back and forth about. He’s working on a new book right now where some of these ideas are going to be flushed out even more. But I’d said, you know, it would be good just to get you on the podcast.

and we’ll talk about some of these ideas that you’re trying to get out there and more normalized in the chamber world and shine a light on it. So we’re gonna kind of be all over the place, you know, throughout this conversation, but it’s all gonna be chamber focused and it’s gonna be all about improving the impact that a chamber can have. And we’ll dive into this as soon as we get back from this quick break.

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All right, Matt, we’re back. As I mentioned before the break, we’re gonna dive in on all things Chamber. So I mentioned you’re working on a new book. I don’t know if you wanna start with kind of what the book’s focus is gonna be on or if you wanna dive into some of the specifics. Do you have any preference?

Matt Appenzeller (08:19.273)
Awesome. Let’s do it.

Matt Appenzeller (08:33.247)
Yeah, well, let me start by, you know, kind of just laying out how it got started, right? So I used to spend a significant amount of time on the road visiting chambers. Now we’ve hired someone to do that, but…

Over the 13 years of not just me doing that, but the other two people on our staff, between the three of us, we’ve got about 50 years of chamber experience, right? And we see the same four problems that local chambers, you know, they end up having, they experience them over and over and over. And so I wrote this paper called the four critical challenges facing local chambers of commerce today.

And, you know, somebody said, I can’t remember. think it was somebody on my staff said, you know, you don’t just write a book. I actually think I said that and she said, yeah, you kind of should. And so we just sort of expanded the ideas from there. And, and here we are, right. I, it’s this, writing a book as I’m finding out as a, as a huge undertaking. sometimes it’s very enjoyable and sometimes it’s not.

but we’re just trying to get the word out. one of the things I see Brandon is we see changes in leadership at these chambers of commerce. And I know that with your background, you have seen it also. they just ended up recreating the wheel, right? Before the next change in leadership. And so if we can put some…

literature out there that maybe helps to reduce that and helps to point chambers at least in the maybe in the right direction or at least points out what problems that they’re going to face and how to avoid them well then I feel that we’ve we’ve put out a valuable product.

Brandon Burton (10:42.061)
And you’re right, I’ve seen it a number of times and people will join the chamber because they like the chamber president, the executive, know, there’s something, some connection there or the salesperson that sold them was really good and they really liked that salesperson but then that salesperson gets hired on at another business in the community and that member fades away, you know, once renewal comes around because that salesperson’s not there. So being able to get to that core value of what the chamber does,

Matt Appenzeller (11:04.568)
That’s right. That’s right.

Brandon Burton (11:12.005)
the chamber is going to be in the future, I think is so critical to be able to retain that purpose for chambers and how they operate and being able to help ingrain that in their membership.

Matt Appenzeller (11:27.046)
Absolutely. And, you know, we recently had a conversation with one of our guests on our podcast that, you know, he says it’s all about relationships. Well, and he’s right. He’s right. It is. And when you have these changes in leadership, you know, those relationships get interrupted and then they have to be reconstituted. And it just, is very difficult for a chamber to have.

some moment gain momentum if they’re constantly having those leadership changes. So that in itself, now that I’m on it, that is one of the four critical challenges, you know, facing chambers of commerce is leadership and specifically the changes in leadership.

Brandon Burton (11:58.928)
Yeah.

Brandon Burton (12:14.233)
Yeah, absolutely. So one of the aspects that you talk about, that we’ve talked about, and I know you’re addressing in the book as well, is you have this really intriguing analogy that you’ve used between lighthouses and lampposts. Do you want to tell us what that, what your background, what the analogy is all about and how chambers can take that home?

Matt Appenzeller (12:36.717)
Sure.

Matt Appenzeller (12:43.454)
Absolutely, absolutely. So let me start at the beginning of that, right? So one of the things that think chambers really need to do is to have the right mindset on who they are as a chamber. If you’re just going to be this community organization or if you’re going to be a beacon of light, right?

And one of the things, as you know, has occurred in our profession is there’s this emphasis on the word relevance, that chambers need to be relevant. And I’m going to take exception to that, right? In fact, I do take exception to that. I think that, well, let me tell a story. I’ll do it that way. So I’m…

doing some work on my laptop and my wife is next to me on the couch and she’s watching one of the entertainment shows. I think it’s the extra with Mario Lopez and whatnot. But anyway, this aging celebrity gets on the show and is pitching their pet product. And my wife says, well, look at so-and-so just trying to be relevant again. And I thought to myself, boy.

Brandon Burton (13:52.941)
Ouch.

Matt Appenzeller (13:56.018)
Yeah. mean, is this where we really are? I mean, is this where we really are with change? Are we really like aging institutions just trying to remain relevant again? If that’s the case, we need to stop talking about setting our sights on being relevant and we need to start raising our sights to having an impact. So I say all of that.

Brandon Burton (14:17.965)
Relevance almost a relevance a point of desperation almost so

Matt Appenzeller (14:21.87)
It seems that way. we want to take chambers from relevant to impact. And so we drew the analogy of, hey, do you want to be a lamp post? Well, that’s being relevant. You’re just shining a light on a little square or a little portion of the public square. Or do you want to be a lighthouse where members and the community are looking to you for direction?

And you are being the spotlight. You’re not trying to be in the spotlight. You are being the spotlight for your community. So which one do you want to be chamber? And that’s why I say chambers of commerce. One of the very first things they need to do is just think about the mindset that they currently have. If it’s centered around relevance, I’m here to tell you that’s way too low.

Brandon Burton (15:12.665)
Yeah, yeah, I would totally agree with that. And as you were talking about the lighthouse shining the light.

I see some correlation even with Dave Atkinson’s book, Horseshoe vs. Chess, where he correlates the, running a chamber is like playing chess, where each piece is a different part of your community. You’ve got tourism, economic development, school district, city, all these different entities. And as a convener,

Matt Appenzeller (15:28.344)
See, mm-hmm.

Matt Appenzeller (15:37.806)
That’s right.

Brandon Burton (15:45.534)
a chamber should be shining the light on the different chess pieces. So that lamp post, not lamp post, that lighthouse rather, as that light’s going around, it should be shining on those different chess pieces each time it goes around. So I love the analogy. It really resonates for me. And hopefully those that are hearing this, hopefully it’s turning on a light in their minds as well as to what they can do.

Matt Appenzeller (16:09.358)
Well, thank you. And I try to outline that in the book as best as I can. I guess readers will have to tell me if it resonated with them. But the analogy is clear. mean, just don’t think that we can settle for just, you know.

shining a light on this small area. We need to be the spotlight and be that leader where people literally look to us for direction. The world is changing very rapidly now. we need to be able to use, chambers of commerce need to be able to use their convening authority, as you mentioned, to do just that and to be that beacon of light for their community.

Brandon Burton (16:58.723)
Yeah. And I think if you are operating as a lamp post, I mean, I don’t want anybody to feel bad, but you you’re, missing the mark. I mean, it really, if you’re, if that’s all that you’re focused on, there’s a lot of other parts of the community that need attention and it will really take your chamber to a place of impact. So I love that. This kind of transitions us to the next thought that I wanted to address with you is,

Matt Appenzeller (17:16.866)
That’s right. That’s right.

Brandon Burton (17:28.407)
So some chambers are operating as a lamppost, and some have caught the vision and they’re operating more as a lighthouse now.

I know it’s been an issue for you. I’ve recognized it as well, but how can a chamber?

see how they’re measuring up. How do they compare to other chambers amongst their peers? I know ACC has their annual benchmark survey, but what percentage of chambers participate in that? So that’s a problem in and of itself, but I know you have some thoughts about trying to measure and see the performance of your organization compared to others.

Matt Appenzeller (18:01.602)
that’s right

Matt Appenzeller (18:11.468)
Yeah, yeah, that’s right, Brandon. another one of the four critical challenges that we’ve said is that in our profession, there is a shockingly low amount of industry standard metrics within our industry. Now, ACCE does a great job of collecting data and publishing it every year.

I guess one of my concerns is that no one really knows about it. Well, there’s actually two things, right? Number one, I’m not sure that they’re getting enough participation in that. And then number two, once it is published, like no one really knows about it unless you’re a member. And so…

Matt Appenzeller (19:01.678)
It renders the data almost irrelevant because if no one’s seeing it, right, if not enough people are seeing it. So an argument that I make in the book is that, one of the things as you know, and Dave Atkinson outlined this in his book. And so we need to get away from the saying that says, if you’ve seen one chamber of commerce, you’ve seen one. Right. Because.

That I believe is harmful to the profession. What chambers need now is to be able to have metrics and not myths, right? Every chamber can be measured on a certain amount of standard metrics. We recently developed a scorecard for chambers that we actually are just rolling out this week. And we…

are measuring chambers in on seven data points across three broad categories. Those broad categories are membership growth, financial strength, and revenue composition. until chambers, especially the smaller chambers and brand again, you have experience working with some of these smaller chambers and smaller communities, right? I think one of the biggest problems is, is they don’t know how they’re

being against their peers. And so they, they, kind of choose this strategy is maybe this working and maybe this strategy and, they don’t have any benchmark. That’s right. That’s right. And so with, if you have standard metrics, industry standard metrics, you can isolate where those strengths and weaknesses are within your own organization. And you can build up the strengths and you can also, you know, begin working on those weaknesses as well.

Brandon Burton (20:41.005)
It’s a lot of guessing. Yeah.

Matt Appenzeller (21:02.176)
So that’s what we’re trying to do here. We’ve got a kind of got a small audience to work with. Hopefully we’ll gain some traction with it, but I’m confident that if we just persist, we will.

Brandon Burton (21:15.375)
Yeah, as you mentioned with the ACCE benchmarking surveys and the results and the whole reason that I started this podcast is trying to help those chambers that are underserved that their board doesn’t allow for them to have the budget to participate in their state association or ACCE. So as those results come out and they’re a struggling chamber that needs to know what these standards should be, what they should measure themselves against, and they don’t get access to these

reports because their board doesn’t allow them the budget to do so it just perpetuates the problem and we need to be able to help get it out and I think you know with these areas that you’re talking about measurement for those should be standards across different chambers and it still allows for the autonomy for chambers to address the needs specific to their community while still having those the standards to work with.

Matt Appenzeller (21:48.024)
That’s right.

Matt Appenzeller (21:52.772)
That’s right.

Matt Appenzeller (22:12.046)
That’s right. Let me give you an example. Let me give you an example and I don’t want to give too far off track, but like, okay, let’s just take, you know, let’s just take Richardson, Texas, which I know is kind of near you in the North Dallas area. And I don’t know if Richardson has a chamber or not. I’m just saying that, right? Okay. Okay. So I mean, if you declare yourself a chamber of commerce in Richardson, Texas, then what that chamber probably has done,

Brandon Burton (22:29.241)
They do, yeah.

Matt Appenzeller (22:40.346)
is they’ve put a boundary around their service area. And so you’ve automatically restricted your market area. So I don’t think chambers understand the significance of doing that. Like any business out here, you wouldn’t do that. You wouldn’t draw a boundary around where you would sell your product or service. You would try to expand it as far as you can.

I know that we do that for a reason, but you got to understand how that impacts the bottom line by doing that. within that, let’s say that we determine for a chamber of that size that the standard market penetration rate is, let’s just say it’s 28%. And Brandon, you’re running a chamber and I’m running a chamber, right?

So Brandon, in your chamber, let’s say we both have the same goal of increasing revenue by 15%. Your chamber is running at 20 % market penetration. So we know that you’re already eight points below what the average is. Well, operationally, your choices are very clear. You just need to increase your sales effort, which will increase membership dollars.

and probably sponsorship dollars because an increased number of members. Now, on the other hand, if my chamber is that 36 % market penetration rate, and I’m already eight points over what the average is, it would be a really bad business decision for me to do exactly the same thing you are. And that’s why we need to have metrics, these standard metrics, because depending on where you’re at,

Brandon Burton (24:25.881)
Yeah.

Matt Appenzeller (24:33.332)
in the spectrum of things, you’re going to make different business decisions about where you’re

Brandon Burton (24:40.877)
I love that perspective of being able to see where to allocate resources. I think you’ll still, I would imagine you’ll have your outliers who are way ahead of the pack that are gonna bring that industry standard up higher than, you know, mess up the curve for everybody. But it does help to see where to align your efforts and focus to be able to meet those goals.

Matt Appenzeller (24:57.838)
That’s right. That’s right.

Matt Appenzeller (25:09.57)
Yeah, and hopefully we’ll be able to create cohorts to where those outliers are with the other outliers. And at least they can be compared to each other, right?

Brandon Burton (25:16.407)
Yeah, that makes, yeah, yeah, I like that. And as far as the geography goes, you see a lot of chambers that are starting to address that in their name at least, being the using Richardson, maybe the greater Richardson or the Richardson area chamber. So it’s not just that geographic area, but branches out a little bit, but.

Matt Appenzeller (25:41.422)
That’s right. That’s right.

Brandon Burton (25:42.992)
To your point though, in today’s world, as a business owner, you’re not gonna limit yourself, especially with websites and just the online presence. Anyone in the world could be a potential customer. So as a chamber, why would you limit? And chambers have websites and a lot of them you can join members, join the chamber, can even do sponsorships through their website oftentimes. So why would you limit it? So, yeah.

Matt Appenzeller (26:08.664)
That’s right. That’s right. There’s something to think about it because it does impact the bottom line and the long-term viability of your chamber.

Brandon Burton (26:17.315)
Yeah, absolutely. Do you want to touch on the other two areas and just highlight those a little bit?

Matt Appenzeller (26:25.038)
Sure.

Yeah, so let me back up with the four critical challenges. We say that two of those challenges impact all chambers, and those are the pace of technology and industry standard metrics. The other two challenges only impact some chambers because other chambers have actually solved that problem. And those challenges are leadership and complacency.

Now, if we start with technology, we are living in a really strange time as it comes to technology. mean, it is coming at us in waves. And everybody, think, is having difficulty keeping up with that challenge. But as it relates to chambers, if

If you’re not keeping pace, if you’re not modernizing, if you’re not standardizing, optimizing, or using, if you’re using outdated technology infrastructure, you know, it’s hard for your members to have confidence in you because they’re using that stuff while you are, right? So I know it sounds like keeping up with the Joneses, but that’s just the reality of where we’re at right now as it, as it.

comes to technology.

Brandon Burton (27:51.312)
So on the technology front, I’ve.

You know, obviously with AI, there’s people of different camps and different, you know, different thoughts around it. But, um, to your point, if you’re not using the latest tool sets, if you’re not using the latest technologies that your members are using, that, puts you at a disadvantage. It puts you at a place of, you know, maybe not knowing what you should know to be able to help the business community. Um, but all of your chambers, you know, have the pushback of, well,

Chambers are all about the relationships and if we rely too much on AI Then we’re not building those relationships and having that human touch with our members How would you rebut that? What would your thought be with that?

Matt Appenzeller (28:41.42)
Well, I would say that first of all, the next phase, as far as I understand, the next phase of AI is that it’s going to be into the agentic phase. And so you don’t just have to be using AI for communications. You can be using it for other parts of your operation to do tasks for you that help you save time. But I would also say that an interesting proposition here is I know of at least one chamber that is considering

using AI to make retention phone calls, right? Because that agent can work for them in retention 24-7, right? And so I think that chambers of commerce will need to explore every possibility on how this can be used and what works best for them.

Brandon Burton (29:35.813)
Yeah.

And obviously, you know, the caveat is it comes with training. comes with, you know, being able to give a scope for the AI agent to do, you know, what you want it to do and to not just be another, you know, spam call that you get the filter through. But so there’s all that to deal with. But I think you make a great point that the businesses in your community are using these things to save costs, to be able to stay competitive. And we need to as well as chambers, as an industry, we need to do it to show

Matt Appenzeller (29:46.147)
That’s right.

Matt Appenzeller (29:50.593)
Right.

Brandon Burton (30:07.016)
Not just that we’re relevant, but that we see where the word things are going where the puck is headed, right?

Matt Appenzeller (30:11.214)
That’s right. can’t be a lighthouse for AI at least in what all your other members are using when you yourself are not using it.

Brandon Burton (30:23.331)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, is there anything else that you wanted to touch on? I know we’ve covered a lot and there’s a lot still to go, but what else stands out for you?

Matt Appenzeller (30:31.971)
You know?

Well, there’s just a lot of ground here. And so I would say just in one of the other areas, as far as complacency goes, I think that in some of these smaller chambers over time, what ends up happening is, I don’t think it’s like a conscious choice. I just think that they have mission drift that over time, you know, they have somehow become, you know, rather than the chamber of commerce, they become like the

the chamber of charity or the chamber of community or the chamber of civics, as one of my colleagues used to say. And then there’s also this sort of hesitance, hesitancy to have an impact on their community because having an impact as a leader in your community means that yes, you do need to stick your neck out there and.

Sometimes people are not going to take too kindly of that. Yeah. So you just got to understand that, you know, impact makes waves. That’s a kind of the point we make in the book that, you know, you can’t shy away from it. I mean, it’s just part of the territory. This is Sue. This is the role that you’re in as a leader and as a chamber. And if you want to make an impact in your community, you are going to make some waves.

Brandon Burton (31:33.325)
It burned a little bit,

Matt Appenzeller (31:57.912)
So I’m just making you aware of that, right? You can’t shy away from it.

Brandon Burton (31:59.312)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you can’t lead a chamber just to make friends, you know, it’s gonna, it’s gonna make some ways for sure. It’s a great note. Well, Matt, I like asking everyone I have on the show, especially on behalf of those listening who have that desire to take their chamber up to the next level. And I would say even to be a chamber of impact, what kind of tip or action item would you leave with them to try to accomplish that goal?

Matt Appenzeller (32:06.21)
That’s right. That’s right. That’s right. That’s right.

Matt Appenzeller (32:30.35)
well, I’d say just actually two things. First of all, again, back to technology, make sure that you are modernizing, standardizing, optimizing. That’s really important in today’s day and age. I know it’s coming at us fast. I know that you may make a decision now about a product and all of sudden the technology changes, you know, three weeks later, but you just kind of have to roll with it. The second thing that I would just say is that, you know, if people would

If they have ever read ACCE’s original Horizon Report in 2025, you know, they talk about catalytic leadership and that’s the kind of leadership that your chamber needs where you are the people who are initiating change, not just the one that is helping them cope with change, right?

And so I think that that’s the kind of chamber, the most successful chambers are going to be the ones who are doing that.

Brandon Burton (33:37.541)
Love that, not just to help them cope with change. The chamber of counseling, right? Yeah.

Matt Appenzeller (33:41.334)
Those aren’t my words. Yeah, mean, yeah, I mean, those aren’t my words, but those that comes directly out of the report. I highly encourage people to read that and also read the follow-up report for 2035.

Brandon Burton (33:51.385)
Yeah.

Brandon Burton (33:57.562)
Yeah, awesome. Well, Matt, the other question I like asking everybody, and I think this is going to be particularly on point with our discussion today, how do you see the future of chambers going, the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Matt Appenzeller (34:16.536)
Yeah.

I think a lot of that is gonna be dependent on where technology takes us, right? I see.

smaller chambers coming to the realization that they’re going to need to merge simply because like the industrial era is kind of over, right? I mean, I’m not gonna say it’s completely over, but you just don’t get a lot of new building as much as you have new technology that is driving commerce, right? And so,

And so I think in some of these smaller communities where they may have been bedroom communities and a segment of their population, you know, drove to the next county and that’s where everybody worked. And now those jobs are no longer there. I just think it’s the prudent move for them would be to consider merging with other.

smaller chambers within their area and just forming regional chambers and doing it that

Brandon Burton (35:30.019)
Yeah, yeah, definitely could be some value in doing that and obviously, know, assessing the needs in your community and see where that technology takes us. It’ll be a fun ride for sure. Well, man, I wanted to give you an opportunity to share any contact information or anywhere you’d like to point anyone to that might want to learn more about these concepts you’re talking about or connect with you and where would you point them and direct them?

Matt Appenzeller (35:37.602)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Appenzeller (35:41.55)
That’s right. That’s right.

Matt Appenzeller (35:58.702)
Sure, well, you can go to our website at joinsoca.com, joinsaka.com, or you can send us an email at info@joinsoca.com. If you want to learn more about the scorecard or maybe some of these other concepts, we’d happy to share them with you.

Brandon Burton (36:19.055)
Very good. We’ll make sure those are in our show notes as well. So it’ll be nice and easy to find and click on. But Matt, this has been great having you on the show. I look forward to the book coming out and getting it out there is another core piece to the chamber library that all these chamber leaders out there should have.

Matt Appenzeller (36:39.827)
Yeah, so just one more point on that, know, Dave Atkinson challenged all of us really like to have this dialogue and that’s really all I’m trying to do. I mean, I personally think that we need more literature out there because we just don’t have a lot. So that’s all I’m trying to do is just make a contribution to our profession before my time is up. Right. So thanks for having me. Really appreciate it.

Brandon Burton (37:06.943)
Absolutely, it’s been my pleasure.

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Sane Center Media with Ed Sealover

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Brandon Burton (00:01.106)
Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your host, Brandon Burton, and it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community. Today’s guest is someone who brings both journalistic rigor and strategic insight to the world of business policy in Colorado.

Ed Sealover is the vice president of strategic initiatives for the Colorado Chamber of Commerce, and he’s the editor of the Sum and Substance, a news site he launched in 2023 to dive deep into the intersection of business and state government. Before stepping into his current role, Ed spent nearly three decades in journalism reporting for

represented outlets like the Denver Business Journal, Rocky Mountain News, and the Colorado Springs Gazette. His exceptional reporting earned him 140 state, regional, and national awards, including the prestigious title of Colorado Journalist of the Year in 2020. Now, Ed leads the impactful initiatives at the chamber, including workforce development and environmental sustainability through the chamber’s Climate Action Task Force.

Ed lives in Wheat Ridge with his wife and two children. He’s here with us today to share his insights on Colorado’s evolving business landscape and what’s ahead. Ed, welcome to Chamber Chat podcast. I’m excited to have you with us today. Love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the Chamber Champions who are out there listening and if you would share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better.

Ed Sealover (01:37.432)
Well, thank you, Brandon. I appreciate it. Hi again. I’m Ed Sealover, VP at Strategic Initiatives and editor for the Colorado Chamber of Commerce. I’ve been here since February, 2023. And in my prior life, it was not just a journalist for 28 years, but I’ve actually authored two books. One in 2011 called Mountain Brew, a guide to Colorado’s breweries. That was a look at all 101 breweries that were open in Colorado at the time. And then the 2016 book.

called Colorado Excursions with History Hikes and Hops, which is a 30-day guide to traveling Colorado, stopping each day at one historic site, one natural site, and one drinking site, what I like to think is the best of Colorado. So that’s what I do in my spare time. Travel, be a dad, and find great beers.

Brandon Burton (02:27.085)
That’s awesome. also drive tourism in the state of Colorado too with your book, right? That’s awesome. Right. That is awesome. Well, tell us a little bit about the Colorado Chamber, obviously a state chamber, but help give us an idea of

Ed Sealover (02:31.597)
I hope so, and certainly with all the trips I take, I drive in as well.

Brandon Burton (02:46.094)
size involvement that you guys are involved with staff just to kind of set the stage for our discussion today.

Ed Sealover (02:54.699)
Yes, thank you. The Colorado Chamber of Commerce, we have about 400 direct member businesses, but we also represent about 80 local chambers and trade associations. So we like to think we represent thousand plus businesses when we’re going out there and speaking on things. We have a staff of 15 people. So we keep it pretty tight and on budget.

and we, we do a lot in the state policy realm. That’s kind of where we play our part where we’re very active at the Capitol, in both, proposing and opposing and pushing, for certain pieces of legislation, and in regulations, we’ve gotten very involved in trying to make sure that state regulations are realistic in what businesses can do. So, we’re kind of a, a big policy wonk group here.

speaking for the businesses of state of Colorado.

Brandon Burton (03:52.316)
That’s great. you know, occasionally I’ll have somebody on from a state chamber here on the podcast. And I love to just have the reminder of what a great resource the state chamber, whatever state the listeners are in their state chambers, such a great resource.

for the individual communities, the regional chambers, just as that really the advocate to help understand what’s going on in the state level and keeping things aligned. So appreciate the work that you guys do.

Ed Sealover (04:22.317)
Absolutely. And again, we oversee the Colorado Chamber Alliance. So we hear directly all the time from our chamber members across the state. I’m often speaking to those groups as our other members here. And we understand that we can’t represent business without representing the small local businesses that are asking their local chambers for help.

Brandon Burton (04:42.236)
Yeah, absolutely.

Well, our topic for discussion today, we’ll spend most of our time talking about what I’ve termed this topic as a sane center media. So we’ve obviously got the left and the right focused media, you know, in the traditional media outlets. But when we talk chamber work, when we talk, you know, really moving the needle in communities and the things that affect business, really it’s aligning in the center and being able to see where the truth lies amongst

all the chaos that’s out there. So we’ll spend most of our time on this topic as soon as we get back from this quick break.

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All right, Ed, we are back. As I mentioned before the break, we’re talking today about Sane Center Media. I know you’ve launched something pretty unique, pretty interesting there at the Colorado Chamber. You want to tell us what that is and kind of what the origins for this?

I’ll say it, this new site, what it came from and what the dream was and how it’s evolved. you

Ed Sealover (05:48.141)
Absolutely. And thanks for asking about it. The Summon Substance is a website, tsscolorado.com. It’s free for everyone to see. That came about kind of from my decision in 2022 that I was done with journalism after two and a half decades in the field. I needed to move on to something and I wanted to do something a little more proactive as well, but I didn’t want to stop writing. And so I had

I had talked with the Colorado Chamber CEO. She was one of my best sources in covering the state house. And just talked about, what could a guy like me do? And she thought it would be a good idea to bring me on and to actually launch this site. And one of the reasons was, and I told her, if I leave the publication that I was at right now, they’re going to give up on the Capitol. though they didn’t right away, they eventually did pull out of covering the Capitol.

And I said, because of that, nobody is going to be covering the business issues of the Capitol the same way. So I suggested, look, if I come onto the chamber, I need to write a pretty detailed newsletter for the members. And Lauren Furman, our CEO, was the one that had the vision. She said, no, no, no, the heck with the newsletter. She said, let’s put up a website, because the website not only will allow our members to see what’s going on, but will allow policymakers to see and understand the business issues as well, because too often, and think this happens in every city,

media outlets focus on kind of the hot button issues. There’s guns, there’s social issues, there’s things like that. But we need people to think more about business issues and how that affects everyone even more so than these hot button issues do. And so she had the idea, we’re gonna put up the website, we came to the name Summon Substance to try to really show that this…

This shows every angle of what we’re trying to do here. And the one, I don’t want to say demand, but the one thing I said is, look, but if we’re going to do this and people are going to pay attention to is this cannot be chamber communications. This can’t be just PR on our side. We need to show both sides. And she said, yes, go for it. And so what it is, it is a

Ed Sealover (08:00.589)
a business policy news site and I admit I work for an interest group but as I tell everyone I try to write down the middle because I want people talking about business issues and this is the way to do it.

Brandon Burton (08:12.141)
I love that. The fact that it, yes, it’s sponsored by the Chamber, it’s a Chamber site, but not necessarily with the angle or the perspective of.

this is chamber, but just being right down the middle covering both sides. So when you talk about what are some of these topics that are important for everybody, not those hot topic things that make the newsreels all the time, but what are those things that are important for everybody that you see maybe drawing a little bit more attention on the site?

Ed Sealover (08:41.74)
We focus a lot on our state legislature. State legislature runs four months out of the year and it’s extremely active and they’re doing a lot of things with business. So we’ll go in there, I’ll go in there. I should say it’s me. There’s not the staff of people at the sum and substance. And follow bills really closely. Get stories out as soon as they’re coming about or as soon as we even see bill drafts to start the conversation on it.

and explain what it means to businesses. you know, sometimes that’s going to overlap with what other media outlets are covering. We had a big issue on property taxes in 2024. And everyone wanted to talk about property taxes. The difference was I focused a lot on how that affected commercial property and business property taxes rather than some of the residential taxes that most others focused on. And in a lot of cases, I’ll write about things that others may not be writing about.

of business regulations come up. have a legislature that is often looking for good reasons to help out consumers, but is looking to do it by raising regulations that are going to be problematic for businesses. just this past session, I focused a lot on a law that would have made it easier for people to sue over Americans with Disabilities Act violations, sue businesses, and what that would mean to it. Laws about

wage laws about unionization and making it easier to unionize. And then issues like artificial intelligence regulation that directly affect one sector of our economy, but really in many ways affected everyone who uses an artificial intelligence program in state of Colorado. And so I dive pretty deep into these in ways that I don’t think others do. And I always say, you know, in my last publication,

my editors would say sometimes, hey, cut it down. People don’t want to read a thousand words on this topic. Well, now I write about business policy. And so I write pretty long articles thinking if you’re coming to the sum and substance, you want to hear about business policy in depth. So we go into that. The other thing, I’ll be quick here as I realize I’m talking a lot, that I tend to cover are regulatory hearings. The way our state legislature works, a lot of times they set up a framework for

Ed Sealover (11:04.992)
how we’re going to do things like reduce emissions and what that means. And then we have regulatory bodies that decide how to do it. So our air quality control commission, for example, is very active in putting new restrictions on businesses that have emissions coming from them. And so I’ve spent a lot of time explaining what are the rules that they’re looking at, how would this affect them.

And hopefully trying to get not just businesses to hear about this, but the policymakers to understand businesses concerns as well. So anything that comes out of the state government or that affects a wide swath of businesses in the state is what I try to dive into.

Brandon Burton (11:43.356)
Yeah, as you’re given that explanation, I’m thinking, you know, when you see a commercial on TV for a pharmaceutical drug, you know, there’s the level one, you know, effects that, you you take this pill for this outcome.

But then you get the 90 seconds at the end of the commercial where it’s talking about all the potential side effects. And I think same thing when it comes to regulations, when it comes to different regulation that affects businesses. Yes, there’s the top layer. There’s the things that you’re trying to address, but then there’s all the secondary effects, the long tail effects that happen. And I see that as what you’re really getting into. How is this really going to affect business aside from what’s getting the headlines in the news?

as far as what that legislation, that piece of legislation is supposed to address versus how is this really gonna shake out for the average business and who’s gonna win, who’s gonna lose on this? Is that kind of an accurate description?

Ed Sealover (12:41.804)
It really is. you know, for example, we just had a special legislative session and they needed to close a budget shortfall. so they went after they being legislators went after a couple of longstanding business tax breaks and decided to roll them back. And a lot of folks said, well, look, if we cut this tax break, we can save a hundred million dollars and put that back into closing the budget shortfall.

And I would try to go in and say, okay, I will get into the nitty gritty here, but one of them, for example, was a tax break for insurance companies who have a certain percentage of their national workforce in Colorado. It’s called a regional home office tax credit. And legislators looked at it like, okay, we need to get this money back. And my story is trying to point out, okay, I see why, but understand.

that this is how insurers are looking at this tax break and this is what it could mean to Colorado’s insurance workforce at a time when we’re already losing members of that workforce to neighboring states like Nebraska and Arizona because the cost of living and the regulations are so much lower there. So those are the kind of things I try to put in perspective. Like yes, you may think about this, but here’s what it would have to do.

At the same point, I’m trying to explain to businesses who may just come to this and say, this is awful. You’re stealing my tax break and say, okay, here’s why the state is doing this. They don’t see it working for the following reasons. So it’s almost like trying to facilitate a dialogue between the policymakers and businesses about why these things are important, but always being sure to bring up both sides of that and to bring up what business concerns are. I think I tend to write about some stories.

that are broader with the here’s how it affects business angle because I don’t see that being out there a lot and that’s something I like to do to let local businesses especially know, hey, you may not be paying attention to what’s going on, but this is the direct impact on your company.

Brandon Burton (14:43.922)
Yeah, I see it as showing the other side of the coin. However, a lot of these issues, there’s not just two sides of the coin. get into it and it gets a lot deeper and more complicated than that.

Ed Sealover (14:44.723)
Yeah.

Brandon Burton (14:55.678)
So for the local chambers, the work that you’re doing out there in the state level, let’s tie it back to the local chambers. How can we draw attention to them to offer the support to them? How can they benefit from their state chamber doing something like what you’re doing with this approach? What’s your thoughts on that?

Ed Sealover (15:06.187)
Absolutely.

Ed Sealover (15:20.619)
There are a couple ways I think you could think about that one is and again if you go to TSS Colorado comm You will see that the stories are free and in local chambers just pick them off and put them in their newsletters I have a couple chambers that are just like what’s going on? Here’s what you need to know

So I like to think of it as a service that local chambers can pick up and say, look, local members, you want to know what’s happening, you know, especially, you know, we’ve got a wide state. If you want to know what’s happening six hours away in Denver, here is, here is something you need to know. So that’s, that’s a service to local chambers in that way. And the other way it’s, it’s a two way door. have really good relationships with a number of our local chambers, or at least I like to think I do, um, where they’ll call me up and say, Hey, you need to pay attention to this or.

I will call them and say, this sounds like they would hit your part of the state more than others. Tell me about it. So I’m, I’m understanding what they need to be watching at the Capitol and getting their voice into it too, because too often, and this is true of everything in Colorado, it tends to be a Denver centric focus. and, and, and this is a way of at least getting into a publication. Look, here’s what the folks in.

grand junction need or here’s what the folks in Durango need, things like that. it’s a way for local chambers to bring their concerns to the state level as well. And thirdly, we tend to use what goes on TSS as a blueprint, both I and our our SVP of governmental relations.

tend to do a lot of talks in local chambers about, here’s what’s happening. And this is a great way to be able to summarize it and say, and by the way, follow it here. So I guess think of it like an Associated Press newswire for local chambers as well. I may not be able to follow what’s going on with your city government, but I will be able to help your folks understand what’s going on at the state level and what they need to pay attention to.

Brandon Burton (17:13.438)
Yeah, now that’s.

That’s great. So I know on your website, it very much looks like a news site, but curated for business. I noticed you also have a newsletter, although the idea was to start with the newsletter and you guys were like, no, let’s do a website. But it looks like there’s both, right? So is that pushing out the news stories or how does that work?

Ed Sealover (17:29.451)
Yeah, basically the newsletter. Yes, yeah, I mean, because I don’t expect people who are busy running businesses to be checking in every six hours to see if I have a new story up. So the newsletter is you sign up for the newsletter and every three stories that I put out, I’ll put out a new newsletter saying, here’s what’s going on during the legislative session that could come once a

Brandon Burton (17:42.334)
Yeah, and I love that you make it available.

Ed Sealover (17:53.312)
day that you’re getting a newsletter in the off season like it is now that may be every week to two weeks thankfully but yes that’s a way to make sure that people are informed too of what’s going on.

Brandon Burton (18:09.542)
local chambers can pick off certain stories or topics that you’re covering and bring it to their local awareness. Are there other ways that a local chamber can maybe piggyback on the efforts that their state chamber does like this? I know from an advocacy point, just to be able to lean on the state, just what are your thoughts around more of how the local chambers can.

can really piggyback and lean on the expertise of the state chamber.

Ed Sealover (18:40.349)
You know, it’s a great question because I don’t think in most cases, local chambers can expect to do something like this. We have deeper resources than most local chambers just because we have a statewide base. So yeah, I mean, just kind of picking it off is very helpful. But I would say for local chambers that are hearing this saying, boy, I wish I had that service.

Brandon Burton (18:48.635)
Right, if they’ve got one staff or a couple staff, yeah, yeah. So.

Ed Sealover (19:03.315)
it may be something they could as a group go to the state chamber and say, we are not the first state chamber to do this. This was an idea that the Kentucky Chamber of Commerce put into play a number of years ago. We do ours a slight bit differently, but it’s something that local chambers could work with state chambers to say, look, we need this lifeline to know what’s going on.

Now, maybe in other states, the state government isn’t quite as active. I know there are some states where they meet once every two years. And so it’s not quite that pipeline that’s necessary. But in some states, it’s a year-round proposition. I think local chambers teaming up with the state government to say, hey, how could we support you doing this kind of reporting back to us is something they could think about as well. And even in a sense,

Knowing that if you go and you cover these things in a fair way, people will talk to you. think local chambers could even think about establishing more of a partnership, if you will, or more of a relationship with local governments in that way. If you have a local government that is very active in setting forth regulations, just sending someone to attend their council meetings and writing things up.

and saying, look, we’re watching, is a good way for local chambers to kind of raise their voice in this too. And if you cover these things fairly, I think you actually grab the attention of local policymakers more and say, hey, I saw this story on it. I appreciate that. Let’s talk about this more often. So it’s not just the chamber reacting to what’s going on, but being proactive and saying, this is coming. How do we get people involved in the conversation?

Brandon Burton (20:44.853)
Yeah, and I’ve seen local chambers take a topic and then host a

podcast or webinar or town hall or something as a platform to be able to say, let’s talk about this further. Like obviously there’s feelings on both sides, there’s perspectives on both sides. Let’s hash this out and kind of get to the bottom of things. So I like that just, you know, as a, your perspective, you’re able to draw attention to these things. And then on the local chamber level, if they want to dive deeper or if they want to go in with their local government to be able to share their perspectives

or cover something on the fair and center, you know, the centric way. I think that’s a great model to follow. Given that you do the reporting on the what I call the sane center, you know, it down the middle. It is still news that is still reporting. Do you get feedback one way or the other? I don’t know the primary audience. Is it just chambers and your business members or is it the community at large?

Ed Sealover (21:48.907)
It’s interesting, the primary audience, I think started out as our members, but as I mentioned, if it’s just an internal echo chamber, you don’t really do anything with this. And so I’ve noticed more and more state groups or state representatives, senators, their offices are signing up to get this now. And then a lot of other policy groups, both those are in the business space and those that we sometimes clash with.

Brandon Burton (21:49.504)
What do you see? Right. Good.

Ed Sealover (22:18.926)
are actually signing up to get this now too. I’m hoping that is a way to open dialogue with them. We actually have cut a couple of media partnerships as well. We have one newspaper, The Gazette, which circulates in Bethanger and Colorado Springs, that will pick my stories up because it took them about a year watching it and said, you’re doing this journalistically.

And we don’t necessarily have the staffing to cover every business nuance like you do. So we’ll literally pick the story up and put it out there. And so that’s been a good audience growth too. I think it’s also helped some folks who normally would clash with the chamber, the Colorado chamber on issues to say, he actually is doing this fairly. This is not chamber publicity. He’s trying to educate people on it. And so to go back to your question about

Who’s the primary audience now? I guess primary audience is anyone who is a businesses Because as I mentioned we always focus on what is this going to do to business and be anyone who is concerned with business policy? The idea that you may be involved in policy. Maybe it’s tax. Maybe it’s regulation Maybe it’s it’s economic development incentives anything along those lines that may impact businesses We hope people are reading it to say even if they’re just saying

hey, what’s the other side saying right now? At least they’ll be able to understand that and see and incorporate that into our discussions going forward.

Brandon Burton (23:49.842)
That’s really cool that the Gazette and these other publications are picking up the stories and recognizing that you got some real street cred. they’re taking it and running with it. So that’s awesome. Yeah, I was curious with how polarized certain news topics can be. Now, I don’t know if you’re covering housing or child care, if it gets super polarized one way or the other, but covering it from the business

business first kind of lens. Do you get voices that come at you from their polarized point of view of how can you cover it this way? I’m just trying to get my mind wrapped around what’s a reception like from those that are on the complete opposite ends of the spectrum.

Ed Sealover (24:41.424)
It’s, it’s a good question. I think I have the luxury in that if you’re not a thoughtful person, you’re not going to tune into a website that’s writing 1200 words about a policy. so the reception is, it’s generally pretty good. I don’t have people that are writing in like corporate blah, blah, blah, blah. They’re, you know, they’re, tuning in to see, wait, why? And are you doing this? And then there were people who say things like, I don’t buy this, you know, you you, published a

Brandon Burton (24:50.856)
There you go. It’s a great point. Yeah.

Ed Sealover (25:11.262)
hole from somebody who we think is not a legitimate source or here are some of the faults with it. You’re quoting someone who we don’t like. There’s always going to be that. the general reception is, you know, here’s what business is thinking, but here’s what we need to highlight also. I have groups that I I refer to in general media as

Brandon Burton (25:23.706)
Sure.

Ed Sealover (25:39.886)
liberal think tanks who will call me sometimes like, hey, do you want our thoughts on this? I have one particular environmental group I have a good relationship with where the executive director who is often sitting on the opposite side of bills from the Chamber of Commerce government relations team calls and say, hey, do you want my thoughts on this regulation? So I think the reception has been that some groups have looked at this and said,

I want to make sure my voice is in here. want to make sure that if this is going out and it’s already talking about what businesses want, because I’ve got great access to businesses so I can get their voices in there all the time, we get our voices in there too. And so I’m thankful for that. I think it furthers the conversation. And it took time. I will say this, in 2023 when this launched,

I would put in calls to groups like that that went unreturned. And I think that’s fair. If you say, I’m with the Colorado Chamber of Commerce publication, they’ll be like, why on earth would I want to talk to you? But I think they’ve seen my commitment to trying to bring this out over time. And so I think that also furthers the conversation. And to be truthful, to kind of work in some of the other things I do with strategic initiatives, I oversee our environmental sustainability task force here.

Brandon Burton (26:32.124)
is new.

Ed Sealover (26:52.521)
We’ve been able to, one of the goals of the task force was to get business and environmentalists at the same table rather than shouting across the room at each other and talk about what sustainability policies are realistic and how we can work together to clean up the environment. And we’ve been able to bring in some of those groups to talk with us, to talk about how we move forward on this. And I’m not going to say that’s a direct link to the sum and substance. Those are kind of two different hats I wear there.

but I don’t think it hurts when they, when they can see, like, we actually want to hear your opinions. We may disagree with you, but we care about your voice and we’re looking for that way to find a compromise.

Brandon Burton (27:27.336)
We care about your voice.

Brandon Burton (27:34.232)
Yeah, I think your point is well taken when there’s not the hot button bits, you know, that can be shared out on Twitter X or, whatever platform people are on, but it has to be more of a thoughtful read to be able to go through and see the research and the effort that’s been put into whatever the topic is. But then to have, you know, those different organizations reach out and say, would you like to know our opinion? Of course. Yeah, let’s bring all voices to the table.

Ed Sealover (27:58.674)
Yeah.

Brandon Burton (28:00.724)
and let’s find the best solutions, right? So that’s awesome. I love hearing that. Well, Ed, for those listening, those chambers listening who are wanting to take their chamber up to the next level, what kind of tip or action item might you share with them in trying to accomplish that goal? Yeah.

Ed Sealover (28:18.941)
Well, I was thinking about this. I want to step back a little bit from just talking about the sum and substance. And I want to talk about how the sum and substance works into our greater vision. We put forward a statement. was, I should say, we being the chamber before I got here called Vision 2033. And this is something I would recommend for any chamber is lay out a vision statement for the next 10 years of what the chamber stands for. Because this is a comment I’ve heard repeatedly is that

We want to be a part of where you’re going because we see what you want to do. It’s not just the chamber is reacting based on members. It’s not just we are seeing things and saying no or yes. We’re saying this is what we’re going to do and this is how we’re proactively going to achieve it. And so for any chambers listening, I would say if you haven’t thought about and this goes beyond just the mission statement. Mission statements are great because they tell in the very short form.

why people should pay attention to you. But larger statements and Vision 23 for us is, it’s about a 50 page report about here are the four areas we are going to concentrate on over the next 10 years, including areas like housing and workforce development. And that’s actually allowed me, one of my other hats as an initiative is to be very proactive in workforce development. How do we work with the state to improve a system that frankly isn’t preparing

Colorado students for the jobs that are looking to hire them right now. So this is something we didn’t just react to. We worked with the state, with a number of other organizations to put forward a five-bill workforce development package not long ago in 2024 and pass it because we said this is the positive steps we need to take. So that’s a long way of saying for other teams who listening, think about

proactively what you want to do and what you want to stand for. Lay it out in kind of, even if you’re worried it’s too detailed, but very detailed form and then other organizations will see you and want to jump on based on that because they know you’re not just yes and no, you’re about the bigger picture and how we move toward it.

Brandon Burton (30:30.554)
I love it. The proactive versus reactive chamber is going to make all the difference. So being proactive is going to catch more of that vision and having your members and community recognize the visionary leaders that you are. So I always like asking people that I have on the show as we look to the future of Chambers of Commerce, how do you see the future of Chambers and their purpose going forward?

Ed Sealover (30:57.265)
I think chambers need to be on the front line of what is an increasing battle over a question that bothers me, is business a good thing? I think we are seeing more and more of this trend toward business is bad and that comes from both ends of the political spectrum at this point. On one end, saying socialism is good and on another end, they’re saying we don’t trust business anymore.

and chambers need to be out front in showing what business is. Chambers need to be out front and showing business is that mom and pop restaurant you go to down the street when you want to sit with your friends and complain about business. you know, business, business is, is not a, a, you know, an amalgamation of things that, works itself into big business and business is awful. It is the individuals who

Brandon Burton (31:39.23)
You

Ed Sealover (31:56.719)
employee people. It is the individuals who work at those companies. And I think chambers have to stand up and always emphasize that. We try to do that when we are testifying for bills or going into things and saying, look, I know what you’re looking to do here, but if this costs people their jobs, that’s business. That’s business losing because people don’t have jobs anymore.

I think chambers need to be out front representing themselves, not just as a place where people can get together and talk and socialize and meet and network, but as a place where the community can see this is business, this is our community, and we need to safeguard business because they are ours.

Brandon Burton (32:40.412)
I that’s a great response. They need to have a place to sit and gather and complain about business. that’s great. Well, Ed, this has been great having you on the podcast. I wanted to give you an opportunity to share any contact information with listeners who may want to reach out and connect with you or to follow The Summit Substance. What would be the best way to have them reach out and connect with you?

Ed Sealover (33:06.446)
Absolutely. Again, the Summon Substance is tsscolorado.com. If you’re interested in what’s going on in Colorado or just interested in how I’m doing this, sign up for the newsletter. Again, it goes out every three stories. So try to keep people involved there. And I’m happy to talk to people directly if you want to talk about business issues or if you want to talk about how to do something like this. My email is

eclover at cochamber.com. That’s E-S-E-A-L-O-V-E-R at cochamber.com. My phone number is 719-659-7907. And you can hit me on LinkedIn too, under Ed Sealover as well. But happy to talk about this project and happy to talk about business issues for anyone who may be interested.

Brandon Burton (33:59.838)
Perfect, I’ll make sure we get all that in our show notes for this episode to make it easy to find you and connect with you and for people to check out this platform that you’ve developed. This is really something pretty cool. I’d like to see more state chambers get on board with this because it is such an incredible resource for the local chambers and to really push good business advocacy. So thank you for sharing your experience and what you’ve developed and really just how it’s working for you guys there at the Colorado Chamber. I appreciate it.

Ed Sealover (34:28.048)
No, thanks for doing what you’re doing, Brandon. This is an important thing to let Chambers know how they can prosper as well. It’s an important thing that I realize. I love my relationships with local Chambers and anytime the state and local Chambers can work together, that’s when business is really succeeding.

Brandon Burton (34:48.824)
Absolutely. Well, thanks a lot Ed. This has been great.

Ed Sealover (34:52.389)
All right, thank you.

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Building the Right Chamber for Your Community with Heather Lebischak

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your hosts Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

Our title sponsor for this episode is Bringing Local Back. Remember when your community could turn to a local TV station or newspaper for the latest updates and affordable ads? Those days may be fading, but the need for local connection remains. That’s why we created Bringing Local Back, a game changing platform that restores the local visibility and advertising power to your community. It’s more than just tech. It’s about driving engagement and creating new revenue for your chamber. Ready to see the future visit bringinglocalback.com to schedule your demo today. This is the future of local commerce.

Our guest for this episode is Heather Lebischak. Heather is a dynamic and accomplished leader dedicated to driving growth, fostering collaboration and advocacy for her community. As President and CEO of the North Jefferson Chamber of Commerce in Fultondale, Alabama, Heather has been instrumental in championing local businesses and enhancing the region’s economic vitality. Under her leadership, the Chamber has flourished, offering innovative programs, member centric initiatives and impactful events that contribute to the area’s growth. Heather’s passion for service extends beyond her role at the chamber. She serves on the board of directors for the Central Alabama theater group, the North Jefferson Rotary Club and the Fultondale library. Additionally, she plays a vital role in shaping the future of education as a member of the Career and Technical Education and culinary advisory teams for Jefferson County Schools. Heather also contributes her expertise to the Central Alabama redevelopment Alliance Advisory Council, advocating for sustainable development and revitalization in the region, a dedicated community advocate. Heather combines her professional experience with her her personal commitment to making a difference as the group fitness director at Gardendale Civic Center, she promotes health and wellness while connecting with individuals in her community. She also serves in the nursery at our church, church of the highlands, reflecting her commitment to nurturing and supporting others. Heather’s innovative spirit, ability to build meaningful relationships and unwavering dedication to her community make her a respected leader and influencer in North Jefferson. She’s passionate about creating opportunities for others, promoting civic engagement and fostering a collaborative environment where businesses, individuals and organizations can thrive. Heather continues to inspire those around her with their tireless efforts to enrich her community and empower future generations. And Heather, we’re excited to have you with us today here on Chamber Chat Podcast. I’d love to give you a moment to say hello to all the Chamber Champions who are out there listening, and to share something interesting about yourself. Maybe we didn’t share in the bio already.

Heather Lebischak 3:21
Yes, so I’m very excited to be here. I If you had told me 10 years ago, I would have been reporting a podcast for a chamber, I would have said, what the hexa chamber? This is not a world I ever saw myself in. I was a very happy legal secretary slash paralegal. Plan to retire there and there’s, I won’t bore you with the details, but a few changes along the way led me to chamber world, and it’s a world I absolutely love. It’s very different from legal, where everything’s proprietary and protected. In chamber world, we’re big on collaboration, so that’s one of my favorite things about chamber world, but it was the hardest thing to get used to, because I’m used to protecting information. That’s the legal side of me. So it is definitely a world I did not know existed a few short years ago, but that I always see myself in now. That’s

Speaker 1 4:10
right. That is a interesting contrast from your previous experience and and then entering the world of R and D, where everybody’s ripping off and duplicating or collaborating, as you said, that seems

Unknown Speaker 4:22
better. I like R and D better. Yeah.

Speaker 1 4:26
Awesome. Well, tell us a little bit about the North Jefferson chamber, just to kind of give us an idea of the size of the chamber, staff, budget, scope of work, just to kind of set the stage for our discussion. Absolutely

Heather Lebischak 4:36
so about a little over a year ago, I was approached by three cities in the north Jefferson Community, Fultondale, Morris and Kimberly, with this idea of a Regional Chamber of Commerce to give a bigger voice to their communities. Fultondale has a lot of businesses. MORRIS And Kimberly do not, and separately, they didn’t feel that they could individually sustain a chamber. But together, they thought they could and that it would be, as our motto says, stronger together, to have a bigger voice for this community. So that was in about October, November of 2023, and we officially launched the North Jefferson Chamber of Commerce on January 5 of 2024, and also have to be my wedding anniversary. So it was a date I knew I could remember we launched last year. Since that time, we just had our first birthday, there is nothing I won’t do in the name of chamber or community. So our first birthday featured pictures of me with a smash cake like the first birthday should be with cake all over my face and pigtails and all the things. But it was an amazing first year we had around that we had 130 members. Our Facebook reach had grown. We were profitable. Year one, we were able to hire someone part time. When I first started the chamber, my guess was that we were five years away from our first hire, and I’m actually in the process now setting up interviews for our third hire, our first full time hire. So we have been very successful. It showed nothing to do with me. I have an amazing board, and it was a need in our community, and I have the backing from three amazing cities looking to add more. We have city members, but as far as our funding cities, it’s those three, Fulton, no Morris and Kimberly, but we are meeting with some others next month to see about bringing them on board, because the more the merrier.

Speaker 1 6:29
Well, you guys have a vision, obviously, the direction you want to take this and and it seems to be gathering some steam, both the membership and the attention of other cities, other communities, to pull in. That’s awesome. Yeah, we’re, we’re kind of at a stage in chamber world where a lot of chambers are celebrating their 100th anniversary, or a few, maybe even 150 so to just celebrate in one year like it’s it’s going to bring a whole new perspective to the conversation that we have today. I know a lot of people if they were to say, Well, if we redid this chamber thing all over again, we would do it differently. So I’m excited to learn what are some of the approaches that you took in establishing a new chamber. And maybe some of these things are things that still can be ripped off and duplicated in an existing chamber that’s celebrating 100 years, but there’s also bylaws and things like that to deal with, so depending on on where you are and and you know what some of these things are, it’ll be interesting to get your perspective today, but our focus for our conversation today will be focused around building a chamber that’s right for your community. And I think that’s very fitting giving your background, but we’ll dive in much deeper on this topic as soon as we get back from this quick break.

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All right, Heather, we’re back. As I mentioned before the break, today, we’re talking about creating a chamber. It’s right for your community. So you come into this where you’ve kind of got a blank slate, I assume, I mean, I guess, tell us the story. So you’d mentioned these three different cities approached you, but what was the vision? What kind of parameters were you given? Were you able to just dream big and go at it? What’s it like? That

Heather Lebischak 11:29
was the beauty of it. They I came from a neighboring chamber that was like a 35 year old chamber. It was fantastic. They were amazing. But when I was approached about this new chamber, I was actually, on a personal level, doing a fast with a friend of mine. And so for anyone that’s ever done a spiritual fast, it comes with a lot of clarity. And so when I was approached about this, I immediately knew, prayed over and knew that this was something God was calling me to do. And so I stepped out on faith. And by faith, I mean I felt very convicted that God didn’t even want me putting numbers on paper, so there were no dollars on the table. Guarantees anything when I signed on for this, but it was they had saved me, because we were a neighbor community. They saw what I did there. They knew what I was capable of, and so when I came on board, there were no parameters, and that was a beautiful thing. They just wanted me to strengthen their businesses. They wanted to show their businesses that we’re backing them, because they’re going to back you, which is a beautiful thing for a city to do. That’s what cities should do. They should make it easy to operate within the city. And so all three cities were fully on board from the very beginning, both not just financially. Obviously, I needed money, that’s a biggie. But even today, some of the councilmen and some of the council women and the mayor, they’re the most frequent shares of things on social media. They advocate for me. They promote me. They’re putting me in conversations and at seats, at tables that I wouldn’t have otherwise. And so there really were no parameters other than do what we’ve seen you do, and so I heavily relied on them. The first thing I had to do was start a board. There’s no handbook for starting a new chamber or a new business, for that matter. But chambers particularly are tricky, because we are, as we all know, we are a 501 c6 there’s stuff for 501 C threes out there, 501 c6 look, gets left out of all that. So there’s a lot of policies and procedures that were like, Oh, we think it’ll follow that, but we’re not sure. So there was a lot of guesswork in the beginning. I had just gone through the accreditation process with my last chamber for the state, and that included updating bylaws, drafting policies and procedures and employee manual, all the things. There’s about 40 items here. I had just gone through that with my former chamber, so it was kind of fresh on my mind. So I actually, literally yesterday, just finished it up for this chamber because I wanted us accredited after one year. Like, I wanted it to be like, that’s the first thing we do. So the first Biggie was forming a board, and I was coming into cities that I wasn’t as familiar with. The Chamber I came from was a neighboring city, but these communities I didn’t have a stronger tie, so I relied heavily on the city council and the leadership in the and the mayors in the cities to recommend people for the boards, because I wanted equal representation from all my cities, as well as all the other intersectionality points you want in diversity within a chamber board. So relied heavily on them, but they truly just said, come in, do your thing. And it was out. And by the way, do you need an office because here’s free space. So they were fantastic. I have a free office, fully furnished, a free boardroom. I have a huge venue I operate in that I can use for all of our events. So they were in all three cities. They don’t all have the same capacity as far as space, but they have all offered space on whenever i. Need it. So that’s a huge hurdle. I know a lot of chambers have to deal with, is renting and stuff like that, and that is not one I have luckily had to face.

Speaker 1 15:08
So are you in a city office, a city building then? Or so the city of

Heather Lebischak 15:12
Fultondale purchased it. Used to be an outdoor shop. It looks like a big barn on a hill. It’s a beautiful building, but the city purchased it and uses it as an event center, and there just happened to be an office and boardroom side by side that were fully furnished, that they weren’t using. So they’re like, here, you want to go there. And hey, we got extra copy machine. You want it? And the venue is fabulous. It’s gorgeous. I could not ask for a more beautiful venue. So I operate within the venue. And so when we have events, everything’s right here. Yeah,

Speaker 1 15:43
that’s awesome. So yeah, I can imagine it being a little bit maybe intimidating, you know, creating a board from scratch and not knowing the connections, and you know, who the those players are in these different communities. So did you have an idea, as you went to the different cities of what you were looking for as far as representation from each city, or were you just looking to get recommendations from them as to who they think would be a good fit for the board? What was your What was your approach to that? Yeah, that was definitely

Heather Lebischak 16:14
the scariest part, because the board is who you answer to, who you’re held accountable to, and in chamber world, boards aren’t always super familiar with the operations of the chamber. It’s just a very different world. And so answering the people that don’t know the inner workings is always hard. So you want people that are going to trust you, empower you, not get in the weeds with you. And I just didn’t have any connections to know who those people might be. I knew I wanted diversity among industry for sure, and diversity among other aspects as well, but I heavily relied on the city leadership for who those were. I wanted prominent people in the community. So I have a fantastic board. We started with the board of six. We now have eight, but we started with the board of six, all of which I consider friends now, none of which I hardly even knew when they signed on. So four, let’s say four of them, came by recommendation. One actually asked me to serve, and I’m so glad he did. He is in the nonprofit world, so he kind of gets what I deal with. And then one of them was just a kind gentleman who sent me an email when I left my last chamber and said, Hey, we’re with you. We’re Where are we going? We’ve seen what you do. And I was like, Oh, that would be a good guy to have to my corner

Speaker 1 17:30
for sure. No, that’s awesome. So you had mentioned that these three cities kind of came together, approached you about this, so there must have been some sort of a vision of what they wanted to see be accomplished. Were you able to expand on that vision? What? What kind of room? Yeah, did you have with that? And how’s that evolved?

Heather Lebischak 17:50
Right? So there, as I mentioned, fultonville has a lot of businesses. Was there, so theirs was more on the business support, pulling me into economic development discussions as they are, courting a business, pulling me into those discussions, having me help with those some help with event planning. MORRIS And Kimberly are not as business heavy. They’re more I can’t say the word rural. It’s a very hard word for me to say, but they don’t have as many businesses, so Theirs was a little bit different. Theirs was more on the event side. So I help them more with events, and a lot of the vendors at those events are my businesses, but theirs is more on the event planning side. Kimberly, especially Morris, has more businesses probably than Kimberly, so I do have the businesses there. The biggest thing I’m excited about with Morris is they are starting an incubator space that they are going to have available, and we will have space within there that we can operate and do trainings, and they are going to target minority owned businesses for that space to give them a inexpensive place to get started while they’re getting on their feet and getting their business off and running. So all of them had very different needs and so but I had fantastic luckily, I did have fantastic relationships with the leadership to know up front, what those needs were and be able to meet those needs, adapt as I went and realize even more needs than they thought they knew, that I can get plugged into and help out with.

Speaker 1 19:17
And I’m sure as you go about recruiting members, you’re hearing more of what the needs are as well, so you can continue to evolve and adapt, but tell us a little bit about that as you approach members. So you’re in an area where it sounds like there wasn’t a chamber that existed currently. So as you approach businesses and talk about the value proposition of a chamber and help them get the buy in and the vision of of what it is that you’re trying to accomplish in the community. What’s that pitch like? How do you how do you make that approach to these businesses familiar?

Heather Lebischak 19:53
Right? Well, particularly Morris and Kimberly, they were very unfamiliar with the Chamber concept. So the first and. You know, as I mentioned in the beginning, if you’d asked me maybe seven years ago, I would have been like, what? What is a chamber? I have no idea what that is. So the first thing is, is I felt like, before I start trying to get you to join, I need to get us established. I need us be active, a good website, active on social media. I need you to see me at some things and see what I can do before I ask you to pay me money to offer you services that you don’t know what are. So we spent a lot of time building that up. We started in around, actually, December, 8 or ninth is when I officially started here. So I spent that whole first month really building our brand. Mission Statement is huge to me. I tell my board, I drill it into my board. They’re probably sick of hearing it. But everything we do is viewed under the lens of our mission statement, which is we advocate, connect, educate and fight for businesses in the north Jefferson Community, and in doing so, strengthen the communities we serve. So we do want to strengthen the communities, but it’s always a byproduct of the business community, because that’s what we’re here for. So I spent that first month we didn’t even start accepting memberships until January 5, and that was intentional. One, if I’m being completely honest, taxes were a lot easier to wait till the next year when we were so close. Yeah, but the other reason is I wanted to spend some time kind of showing them who we were and what we had to offer. And so January 5, we launched, and I believe, Oh, don’t quote me on this, but she says that she’s recording a live podcast, right? I think we had around 36 founding members. So 36 joined on that first day. And so a lot of it is just putting together materials to educate them on what we have, relying heavily on referrals. We have, we actually have cards. We deliver that say, join us. We’re awesome, and it kind of goes through what we are as a chamber. Now that we’ve got a year under our belt, those cards also reflect a QR code with our 2024, annual report that shows everything we did last year, from our social media reach to our audience to our members, to our events, so that they know kind of this is what they accomplished. Last year, I’ve twofold, one for new members to see what I can do, and two for existing members to see where their money went, because I take that very seriously,

Brandon Burton 22:13
yeah. So

Unknown Speaker 22:14
as well as the funding cities, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 22:17
So as you talk about creating an organization where you can be that voice for business. Are you approaching advocacy at this point? As far as legislation? Are you getting into that at all? Or

Heather Lebischak 22:31
yeah, so it was part of my plan, from the beginning, was to get and initially I wanted to have some kind of government relations field. I’m in my I’m coming into my final year of IOM, which chamber people will know as institution for organization management. And so I met with someone last year to get some insight on how to launch that because it is not an area I know anything about. And so in meeting with her, she was fantastic in recommending one avoid the word government. And I was like, okay, noted, so we did launch last year our public policy committee, so we are not on the advocate side yet. As far as lobbying or anything like that, we exist right now solely to inform particularly I know everybody the boi report was back and forth and back and forth. And so we were keeping our members informed of that, most of which had never even heard of it. And at the time, it would have been a big deal, because it was an enormous fine if you didn’t pay. And so right now, our Public Policy Committee is strictly to inform. We hosted a state of the city event in Morrison Kimberlin last year, which, to mo everyone’s knowledge is the first one they’ve ever had in that community. We did that under public policy. We educated on where to vote, how to vote, how to register to vote, how to do absentee ballot, all of those things. There was a group of we. Were a group of us from the chamber actually in Ireland over the election, so we all had to do absentee ballots for that, but mainly just to keep them informed of policies that impact them. I do feel like in the future as a Regional Chamber, I do feel like we will take that step towards being a voice to advocate for our businesses when it comes to legislation, and maybe even going as far as to hire a person that that’s their job to handle that. Because I do feel like I do want to be that voice for businesses, not just at a local level, but as a state and federal level as well. Yeah,

Speaker 1 24:26
it’s exciting to see, you know, a chamber starting from scratch, and you can really go any direction you want to and and you don’t have to do what every what other chambers are doing, either right, like you can right kind of chart your own path. Are there? Have there been any unique approaches as you’ve kind of crafted this custom model of a chamber for these three cities that you’re like you know from my past experience in the chamber, I want to get rid of this, or I want to bring this in. What are? What are? Maybe a couple examples of some unique approach.

Heather Lebischak 24:57
Biggest one I came into i. I came from a 35 year chamber, and they were fantastic. It was a great city, a great business community, and but there wasn’t a lot of records like if you try to look back and see who won this award last year, who was even the executive director, I ran across a piece of paper in my desk that had the founding date, and that’s the only reason I knew the chamber was 35 years old, and it wasn’t neglect on anybody’s part. It’s just nobody thinks to write stuff down. And so that was one of the things. When I went into this, I was like, I’m writing everything down. Every event we have, we’re gonna know if we had a women in business luncheon last year, we’re recording the winners. We’re gonna know from year to year, and that annual report I did, it’s basically a chamber scrapbook. So for every year, they’ll be able to look and see who did what. So that was the biggest thing I took with my old chamber, was to record everything, and the other one was to create a very good not just a Policies and Procedures Manual, like a formal document, but a obnoxiously detailed, one of how to do everything, a how to mingle. We put on this event. We send them postcards on this day, we get sponsors on this day, we get posters to where, you know, heaven forbid I walk out and get hit by a bus tomorrow. They’ve got that document to know how to do, and it makes training a lot easier, as we’re looking to hire. But just the importance of doing that, taking the time, and it’s hard, because I started off as a one man show, so there wasn’t a lot of extra time, but taking that time to draft that document just a simple bulleted list of how to do everything we do.

Speaker 1 26:34
Yeah, and even, I mean, as far as creating policies and procedures in today’s world with AI and everything like, there’s tools that help with that process as well that will, you know, if you start a process from start to finish, and AI can watch you do it, and then, you know, write the bullet points, and here’s the detailed steps of how to do it. It’s pretty cool stuff. So you’re it’s a good time. Knows

Heather Lebischak 26:58
me well, I will say, though, when I first so if you were to look at, if you were to Google chamber by laws, you’re going to find the same ones. We all use the same one. Same with policies and procedures. And part of that’s how collaborative we are. We are happy to share. But when I was doing the policies and procedures at the time, I wasn’t AI was still, oh, the robots are going to take us over. Don’t use it. So I did, actually, if you look at my desk, I had five of them spread across my desk, and I literally typed them from scratch, picking out the pieces that I wanted from each one. Now my background, as I mentioned, was illegal, and what we did was draft these long planned documents. So it wasn’t super foreign to me, but it was a tedious process. Now, I do rely heavily on AI and particularly chat GPT it I told I made the mistake of saying yesterday, I was like, it does 80% of my job. And I was like, let’s word that better. It allows me to be 80% more efficient and do other things, which is the truth of it, the times I would spend drafting social media posts when I really should be doing something else, as opposed to worrying about putting something cute. I’m 44, years old. I’m past that. I don’t know the cute things or the hashtags or all that, so I rely heavily on that for when it comes to social media.

Speaker 1 28:16
Yeah, that’s That’s great. Good takeaways. Any other lessons from this, the last we’ll call it, year and a half of kind of ramping things up and first year in a chamber, any other things stand out to you that may be beneficial for other chambers listening to, you know, as they do their R and D, things that stand out. The biggest

Heather Lebischak 28:39
one for me is I learned a lot of patience. I am a microwave. I want it quick, quick. And I’m going to build a plane as I’m flying it, and I’m totally okay to do that. And if we land on one wheel, that’s okay. We got down. Um, but I did learn there are things where it’s okay to not do immediately, let it, let it simmer just a little bit. Think on it a little bit more, whether that’s responding to emails, putting up events, planning events, I like to I have been known to plan an event with a week’s notice when I get a good idea, and so sometimes that works out, but I have learned to slow down and think it through, talk it out, especially now that I do have a colleague that works with me who is fantastic, and she brings out things that I didn’t think about, which is fantastic. She is a perfect compliment to me as far as putting events together and programming and so as we’re looking to hire, I’ve relied heavily on her, because the things she’s looking for and asking are very different from the things I am but equally as important right now,

Speaker 1 29:36
that’s that’s good. Um, well, I like asking everyone that I have on the show for maybe a tip or a strategy for chambers that are listening and trying to take their chamber to the next level, what kind of tip or action item might you share with them?

Heather Lebischak 29:54
I think the biggest one, and it goes back to I have vivid remembers, vivid memories of being a chamber. Me and going to my first chamber event and listening to somebody talk about this $100,000 banquet they just threw and totally freaking out thinking, oh my gosh, I’ll never get there. I’m doing this all wrong. Take everything with a grain of salt. Everything’s scaled. Well, I say that everything is not scalable. You’ll hear that all the time. It is not true. Not everything truly is scalable. Not everything is for your chamber. Yeah. And so I think the biggest takeaway is is, does it fit your culture? Number one, does it fit your mission? Like I said, I drilled that into my people. But just take everything with a grain of salt. Take it all in and then figure out what it is that your chamber needs to do. What does your chamber want to be known for? And do those events align with that?

Speaker 1 30:46
Yeah, I’m glad you made that designation, that everything is not necessarily scalable, scalable

Heather Lebischak 30:52
because you heard me say it, because I just hear it all the time, but I was like, and I’m guilty

Speaker 1 30:56
too. I’ve said it before, but you’re right. You know certain things are not for your chamber, and you need to know your community. You need to know what where the value proposition is and what’s worth your time. You know what are you going to put your time and energy into, and what’s really going to have a return and be valuable to your members and and to your larger community? So thanks for mentioning that. We all needed to hear that. But Heather, as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Heather Lebischak 31:30
I think they’re going to continue to be more and more relevant multiple as people become, like I said, I came into a community where a lot of people didn’t know what the chamber was, as they realize as the complexities of starting a business, it’s hard. It’s difficult unnecessarily. So in my opinion, one of my goals is to sit down with our cities and create a how to of how to start a business. When you come into Fulton Hill to start a business, this is how you do it. And also in that process, figuring out that we really need this. And so I’m hoping chambers can play a bigger role in that, not just encouraging them to come but helping them to get started. And so as we can offer trainings or advice or expertise in that field, I do think that we’re going to become more and more relevant as chambers and more and more needed, and as people realize, like, I really this is something I need. This is a business expense that is a must for me. Yeah,

Speaker 1 32:25
so earlier, you said there’s not a guide for starting a business. That sounds like you’re writing it. So maybe you know, version two is the guide of how to start a chamber. I

Heather Lebischak 32:35
hope so. Like, we’re about to do taxes, and I’m like, please don’t screw up anything. Too bad.

Speaker 1 32:41
That’s right. Well, Heather, I wanted to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for listeners who might want to reach out and learn more about how you’re doing things, the approach you’re taking. Where would you point people and what? What’s the best way for for them to react?

Heather Lebischak 32:56
So our website is NorthJeffersonChamber.com, and then my email address is president@northjeffersonchamber.com. I am a Gen Xer, so I regularly check my email. I will respond. It’s definitely the best way. I’m a texter too, but email is probably the best way to get in touch with me, and I would love to hear from anybody, answer any questions, anybody looking to venture out and do this thing? I have not yet had anybody to share this with, because it’s just like you mentioned, most chambers are 100, 150 years old. No, I was in a board meeting the other day, and we were, I’m on the state board of directors, and our director, who is amazing, was talking about growing the state board and reaching out to the existing chambers. And she made the comment, she said, I mean, it’s not like we can just create new chambers. And was like, one of the ladies was like, well, Heather did yeah, they’re not, but it’s just not something that happens. And so it would be cool to be able to help someone else through the process, even if it’s just a lending an ear to know, yes, I know how frustrating it is, yeah, and there’s not answers. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 34:01
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Helping Businesses Make Money with Heather Thomson

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your hosts Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

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Our guest for this episode is Heather Thompson. Heather is the new Vice President of Economy and Engagement at the Edmonton Chamber of Commerce, before taking on this new role, Heather was the Executive Director for the Alberta School of Business Center for cities and communities, as part of the founding team of the center, Heather spent much of her time mentoring the next generation of business innovators while working with leaders in the business community with an emphasis on education, consulting, academic and applied research and industry outreach. A few of her key highlights through her career include being named edify his top 40. Under 40 in 2023, she employed hundreds of business students who’ve worked with more than 3000 organizations in the Edmonton region to build digital infrastructure to support their business. She secured $2 million in funding to support local business community recovery from their effects from the pandemic, and she works with national media networks to deliver consumer behavior research to the country. And she’s working on her Master’s right now in behavioral economics, but Heather, I’m excited to have you with us today here on Chamber Chat Podcast. I’d love for you to take a moment to say hello to all the Chamber Champions and to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you better.

Heather Thomson 2:31
Perfect. Something interesting. Well, thank you very much for that awesome introduction, and I’m really delighted to be here. Something interesting. Okay, well, I’ll go with maybe something that’s that’s exciting in my life. I don’t interesting, but I have two small children, and, yeah, they’re four and eight, so when it’s just absolutely crazy, crazy, crazy, crazy these days, and something interesting, I have two really strong talents that I always want to brag about, because I think that they’re just I think everyone’s gonna be jealous. But I’m really good at playing blackjack, and I have this amazing sense of direction, like I know I can read a map, I can get myself into the summer. I It takes very little for me to understand direction. So I feel really excited about that. And then fun fact is that I have been to Disneyland or Disney World or Disney something adjacent, 20 times. Wow.

Brandon Burton 3:30
Yeah, it

Heather Thomson 3:31
might come up. It might come up in our conversation. So I just kind of want to, like, you know, put that out there. But yeah, you know, I live in Canada, so I’m winter girly, especially right now, as we’re recording this, it is winter time, and, yeah, that’s me in a nutshell.

Brandon Burton 3:46
Yeah. So when my wife and I first got married, we lived about 30 minutes away from Disneyland, so her sister got us an annual pass when we got married, so we probably went about 20 times that year, and I think I’ve been once or twice since, okay? So it burned me out. Okay? That was

Heather Thomson 4:04
even my question. People like people say, Well, if you had an annual pass, you’d get sick of it. And I just, I wouldn’t. I feel like I would like, Oh, I gotta go to Starbucks. I would just go to the Starbucks, to Disney, true or false. Did you get sick of it?

Brandon Burton 4:16
So I wouldn’t say I got sick of it. What it is is you feel like you’re obligated to go, like you may not feel like you want to go, but you’re like, I got this pass. It’s going to expire in two months. We need to get our money’s worth, so you’re trying to do it. But then there’s certain blackout dates for people that have passes that you can’t go. So when it’s convenient for you, you can’t go. So yeah, so there’s, there’s little catches with it, but overall, we enjoyed it. It It was fun. The best, best place in the world. Yeah. Well, tell us a little bit about the Edmonton chamber, just to give us an idea of size, staff, scope of work, budget, those kind of things you guys are involved with, with the work, just to kind of set the stage for our discussion.

Heather Thomson 4:55
Yeah, for sure. So there’s, um, yeah, we so yeah, when we move the Cham. For coming up on a year after come January, and the image and Chamber of Commerce is the second largest in Canada. It was the largest for a little while. When I say largest, I mean based on, like membership size. So we have about 1900 members, which is a fairly large size. It was actually, to be honest, I was kind of surprised when I first took over the first took over this job. I thought, you know, a chamber should be about 10% of the registered businesses within the city limits, and the city has 45,000 registered businesses. But obviously we know that number is not accurate for a variety of reasons that we can get into. But then I actually did a little bit of dicking compared to, like Calgary and Vancouver and like other sort of peer cities. And I’m like, Oh, we actually, we do have a very large chamber. And I think one of the things is that the Edmonton chamber, which is kind of fun, is that it’s the oldest organized or I guess just the organization in the city. It’s actually older than the city itself. I kind of think that’s fun. So we really lean into that as part of the brand. Something that’s unique to us right now is that we are a 99% new team. So my former business partner, Doug Griffiths, applied to be in this role, and he he was successful, became the president and CEO, and he said, Hey, I know you love working with businesses, and that’s what I was doing at the university. And he said, I think you should come over here. And then just there was so much turnover, and just like a lot of I don’t say the word messiness, but there was a lot that we needed to sort out. And so the team went from when I first started, there was four of us, and then we went to six, and so on and so on. And here we are, nine months later, and we are back up to 20, which is so exciting. And these 20 people are hand picked. Usual chambers in Canada are a team of about 26 but we’re going to keep it at about 20 because we reallocated the financial resources to kind of expand the scope of work, of what we’re asking from people, so fewer people, but probably the same amount of operating money for salaries. So that’s a very logistical detail, but just to give some insight as to why our team isn’t as big as the other teams, but tremendous capacity. So in terms of the last year has been really like everyone, hold on. I’ve been using this analogy that is felt like we have been having to we did 47 events this year that were that were attended, and it felt like we were hosting a party while we were renovating our kitchen, and no one was to know that we were renovating our kitchen. But that’s that, that was the analogy, right? So it’s like we have no resources. We didn’t have an events team. We just got an Events Manager a month ago. So it was really all hands on deck, just trying to make sure people didn’t couldn’t see all the the sawdust everywhere. And I’m really excited for 2025 because I will say this has probably been the hardest year of my, of my working life. I’m so ready for 2024 to be over. There’s a lot of, you know, three steps forward, 2.85 steps back.

Brandon Burton 8:14
So progress, though, it

Heather Thomson 8:16
is progress. And so it’s like, yeah, the year over, I can see the progress. And let’s get into 2020 but yeah, there’s, I know a few people that are like, this year, gosh, this year was, this was hard,

Brandon Burton 8:25
right? Yeah. So as far as the scope of work for the Edmonton chamber, you guys, do you have any of the Economic Development responsibility, tourism, is it strictly chamber? What does, what are you guys involved with?

Heather Thomson 8:38
Great question. It’s actually, again, another unique thing to Edmonton in that Edmonton does not have an Edmonton Economic Development Corporation. So it used to, and then what happened was it’s a subsidiary of the city of Edmonton. So what the city did was they dissolved Edmonton economic development and they put together three different entities. So they have something called Explore Edmonton, which runs, really the tourism, hospitality, marketing, branding for the city, but they also are responsible for the hosting of those events, right? So they run the convention centers, they run the expo centers, and so they have a very large mandate so that takes care of the tourism and hospitality. And then we have something called Edmonton global, which is an organization that is funded through the region actually, so not just the city of Edmonton, but all the surrounding municipalities, and they’re supposed to go out and do foreign direct investment. And it’s actually, in theory, it’s a really smart idea, because as a region, that’s how we make money. Like collaboration is where people want to invest. And so as a region, we’re really strong as Leduc county separately, or sturgeon county separately. And see in Edmonton separately, like if we just are so much stronger, you know, going after those big those big fish, when we have our whole region to promote. So that’s what Edmonton global does. And then we have. I’m still limited, which is a focus on a tech and startup incubator space. So there isn’t anyone formally in the space of economic development from a domestic standpoint, and tourism, sorry, not tourism trade accelerator and promoting our businesses to the world, outside of the country and outside of the province. And so that’s that’s our going to be our lane. So as I was saying earlier to Brandon, we are in the business of creating wealth. We’re in the business of being really proud that we want to create wealth here in Edmonton, and we want to advocate to all all orders of government, different policies. And I’ll share a policy that just came out last week, that I’m like, pulling my hair out that I’m very vocally, really against. And then we also want to make sure that we’re getting our businesses out to the world. And that’s a key part of creating wealth and creating these connection standpoints. I want, I want people to see that their membership with the Chamber is not just a historic or grandfather thing that’s part of their budget, which we have a lot of those, I want people to see like, Oh, if I’m actually not a member, like, I’m missing out. And so that’s been a core mandate for this year of 2024 we’re thinking, why are you a member? You know the fact that we’re 136 year old organization. I know that doesn’t sound that old to me, some of your your listeners, but like I said, it’s older than this. It’s really old. I would say we’re 136 year old startup and and so we have to, we have to think, why would you be a member? And I we have a lot of chambers, you know, even in the province, that are really bad, and they’re just like a cost cutting or and they’re competing for resources. And so we have to be really, really sure that if we’re going to run this chamber and we’re going to ask for money from businesses. But they are like, Yep, this is a great use of my investment, and happy to do it. I’m not doing it because I feel obligated to do Yeah,

Brandon Burton 11:49
yeah, absolutely. Well, that definitely helps set the stage for our discussion today. And I will say just a little bit of background. You mentioned Doug. Doug Griffiths, a lot of listeners are familiar with Doug because of the 13 ways to 13 ways to kill your community book, and as I had him on the podcast shoot, it’s been a couple years now, I think, since I had him on the podcast, but he he referred Heather to me to to have her on the show because of her passion for helping businesses make money, And in different ways that she’s gone about doing that, so we finally made it happen. She’s now in a position at a chamber there with Doug as well, and and that’s what we’re going to focus our conversation today on, is helping businesses make money, which I think is what every chamber should be about in one way or another. So we will dive in deep on this as soon as they get back from this quick break.

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All right, Heather, we’re back. So as I mentioned before the break, today, we’re talking about helping businesses make money. And when I think of a chamber of commerce, that should be one of the root reasons, you know, the whys for a chamber to be in existence is to help businesses thrive, and whether that’s removing obstacles or giving them key action items or training, or different ways to be able to really accelerate their business. So I’d love to dive into what your take is and maybe some strategies of how you’ve been able to help businesses really thrive.

Heather Thomson 16:35
Yeah, I think that the interesting thing, I think I was given a really unique opportunity with the pandemic. You know, just if I, if I kind of go back in time to 2020

Brandon Burton 16:49
nobody wants to do that. I know. Emily, sorry, just

Heather Thomson 16:52
bear with me. Don’t worry. We’ll, I’ll get us through to Disneyland here in a sec. Okay, yeah, it was actually worse than that. I am. I had a baby in January, little January, and the plan was that my husband was going to take, we were to share the pad leave and and in Canada, I don’t I this is so hard to hear for American listeners, but we have up to 18 months of paid maternity leave. So, you know, we just have so much so, I mean, so this, I just want to say For context, this is very unique in in Canada, this would not be unique in the United States. So we, I take, I take my mat leave. I was always going to take mat leave until about May, and then my husband was going to take over. And then COVID happened, and my husband happened to be a essential worker, so he does H back. And so this was, like a really random thing, but one of the buildings that he was looking after, I think it wasn’t the hospital. It was like a it was like to really make sure, like the bodies healthcare. Yeah, the bodies could stay cool once they were bodies, unfortunately. And that’s like a really, really morbid thing to bring up. But just to give context that I was at home now with a three year old and a colicky baby, and COVID started, so I didn’t have any help. I didn’t have any parents. It was a nightmare. And the colic, I mean, like people who joke about colic, but like, when you’re at home, I couldn’t even walk in the mall. And keep in mind, this is Canada, right? So it’s like, we’re not going outside. We’re not meeting people in the park. It’s still very cold out. So this was, like, an extremely dark, isolating time. So I was watching a lot of news, and I was seeing so many businesses close their doors and, like, that’s it. They’re they’ve gone under. And it happened really, really fast. And I remember it was, like, just around Easter of 2020, and I was actually kind of getting a bit frustrated now, at this point, because and irritated there these businesses, like, go just make a Google profile. And so it’s like, it’s easy for us to think about it now, right? Like, everyone has a Google profile, like, so easy. It’s like, of course, I’m like, yeah. But five years ago, that was not the case. So many businesses were still operating under the assumption that, like, you can find me just by walking or just by, like, you know, knowing about me through someone and now we quickly shifted as consumers were like online, online, online, and we saw firsthand the businesses that could afford it, and businesses that kind of had some sort of infrastructure or education and knowledge were able to survive this. And so it was at the end of April, I kind of, I just talking to my friend at the city of Edmonton. And I said, What’s going on here? Like, what’s the plan? And and he said, Well, I actually think that we should talk, because I have this idea. And I had a student consulting group at the University of Alberta business school that nobody was getting any work because everything, like, as you remember, like, was shut down. There was nothing happening. And I said, I can, I can mobilize students. So in a nutshell, we created the first iteration, which was making Edmonton digital. So we we got some seed money, about $300,000 in city of Edmonton through some grant funding. And I want to be really clear about this. This is something that drives me nuts. There during COVID, there was no matching grants, and I still advocate that match. Grants need to be a thing in the past. There were so many other ways to ensure that businesses or people that are applying have assurance and skin in the game. There’s so many other ways to do that. Matching grants take out like we wouldn’t be able to do if we, if we didn’t have a matching like if we, if we had to match it, yeah, yeah. Because from a university’s perspective, we can’t use operating funding. There’s just laws against it. So just to give an idea, there was no matching component to this. So we got the money, we paid the students, and within like six months, the students had worked with 800 businesses here in Edmonton to get them up online. And so we did Etsy stores, we did Google pages, we did websites like we just whatever we could. It was like a mass mobilization of getting students to build out this infrastructure. And it was, it was really great to do so, to see the students now could do something with their time and make some money. And then the and then businesses were getting up in line. The province picked it up as well. And so we were able to expand it, and then it turned into closer to, like, two and a half million dollars in about 3500 businesses by the time we were done. It actually just ended this past fall, and so it was a really cool opportunity to look at COVID and being irritated with the news. And I have this thing where I like to take my personal irritations and turn them into, like, my new professional project. But I was, I have to say I was, it was so I was so fortunate, because I was offering in a time where the answers were Yes, right, I was hitting so many low hanging fruit for the government to find right. I was, I was employing youth. 70% of the people we were working with identified as some sort of minority group, and our target was a quarter. So like, you could just see, like we were just like, the government was like, yes, yes, yes. And we were able to provide such a larger, you know, return of of investment on what the government’s money was for us. So it’s been really cool to see that that program come from A to Z, and now we have to think, Well, COVID is done. Everyone we laugh. We’re like, oh, yeah, of course. Everyone has a Google page. It’s like, yeah, of course. But this notion of democratizing digital assets and digital tools and education wasn’t a thing before 2020 it was expensive. Businesses didn’t know how to do it. And now here we are, five hours, five hours

Brandon Burton 22:20
later. It seems like it’s sometimes five, yeah,

Heather Thomson 22:25
five years later. And this knowledge is just this, AI, like, we just were able to do this so quickly. So now we have so many things we have to do next. We have to think about this is going to be the next thing that we have to jump through and, like, I like that saying where it’s never been as hard as it is today to run a business, but it will never be this easy again, and so we have to kind of just readjust that whole like things are not going to get easier. We need to get better.

Brandon Burton 22:52
Yeah, I love that story, that background, being able to catch that vision and see where there’s a, you know, holes in the marketplace and being able to see, hey, there’s access to funds here. Let’s partner. Let’s, let’s get these students out to work and help these businesses and, and I’ve mentioned it before on the podcast, even where, even just, you know, brick and mortar retail businesses that have been that way for decades, maybe that have never explored having an online store Shopify or something like that, and just the the limits are, it becomes limitless when you can shift that way. It just becomes a matter of keeping up inventory and being able to ship and that sort of thing. But those people who can make that conversion from just brick and mortar to brick and mortar and online are going to be the ones that thrive and and really do well going into the future. Yep, so you had mentioned trying to think about some of those things or what’s next. You know, as far as how business evolves and how technology impacts business, are there some trends that you have an eye on right now that that you’re seeing is, I think this could be something to pay attention to.

Heather Thomson 24:07
Yeah, and it’s interesting, because I think I was just actually doing quite a bit of data on this. In 2022 and 2023 we were looking at space right? So now we’re looking at space of how consumers are shopping, and what we’re seeing for the first time. And this is like all but like, I’m not gonna say us economists. I’m not there yet. Man, I can’t wait to be. But a lot of economists and a lot of retailing academia, we’re just nerding out over this point of data. It’s so cool that for the first time in human history, we have more purpose driven consumers than we do value driven consumers. And so just to explain what that is, a value driven consumer are the people that care the most about like their dollar, right? They want to, they want to set, they want that dollar to go as far as possible. They’re couponing. They’re they’re about that. I. And then you have the purpose driven consumer. And so these are the consumers that are their time, and they want the great experience. And so what we’re seeing here is this is a clear cut demographic shift we’re seeing in the marketplace from the spending power. So you have people, really under the age of 45 that are the purpose driven consumers that are taking up way more space in the marketplace. And you have the baby boomers, who are the quintessential value driven consumers that are leaving right? They’re they’re not. And that’s the other thing. Like we they like baby boomers have, which are people born between 1946 to 1964 these, these individuals have more wealth per person than anyone has ever had in the history of humankind. But they’re not spending the money, right? Like, you know, who’s spending the money? It’s millennials, millennials. So those are people with 1981 to 1997 and so we’re having, and I’m generalizing here, right? We should look at the data from minerus or visa or something like that, and you’re gonna see this. And so what’s happening with that is that, how we are setting up our business world, how we are providing value for the consumer, is a really interesting time right now, because what worked seven years ago isn’t working today. And yes, there’s the pandemic, sure. Because, to your point, Brandon around you know brick and mortar needs to have an online like, Yes, right? We know that, but we also know that the consumer, from a data perspective, actually enjoys shopping in person. So I want to make that very clear. People have this notion like, I can’t compete with Amazon. I’m like, Yes, you can. You 100% compete with Amazon, and you should. Amazon leaves a lot to be desired. But what, what the problem is, is that people are thinking, I can’t compete with Amazon, because I’m a distribution center. I am a Toys R Us, where you just have a shelf and a product. Yeah, you will not compete with Amazon. You will go out of business. So anytime a business is kind of gearing towards come and buy something from me, I have a product, come and purchase it from me. Those are the businesses that are going to die. So because of this, we need way less square footage. We don’t need, you know, 5000 square foot retail days. And I remember when I worked at Lululemon, we needed a lot of space. We needed a big back room to house two weeks worth of inventory on hand. That’s not how retail works anymore. Retailers and businesses like you just need less space to operate, and that’s through sophisticated shipping. But now in North America, we have about 30% too much space. If you look at malls, we’re seeing this across the world. Malls, unless they’re extraordinary, are they’re like, they’re so depressing to look at, right? They are just they’re not, they’re not of value anymore. And even in Canada, where we have a winter climate, unless a mall is getting some serious investment and some serious diversification, they are the now the land the mall sits on is what is actually valuable, not the mall itself. Yeah, and so we’re seeing this really critical shift from how are we utilizing our space? Office market is no different. We just need less space, but we’re also in a housing crisis. And so one of the big projects that we’re going to be tackling now is, how are we right sizing our physical space to make sure that we are able to invest in residential housing? Because that’s such a critical we learned this from the pandemic. If there’s no residential base, the city is done. You’re that area you’re in is done from an economic standpoint, but we also need to make sure that we’re building the right the right things, but we’re also taking the things that are on the market currently, because it has worked for 40, 5060, years, and it doesn’t work anymore. We need to make sure that those spaces are being retrofitted to work for today. And this is a whole thing that we are hearing in very in all the provinces, who should pay for it. And so one of the things our neighbors to the south Calgary has done is that they created, this was before COVID. I just want to point that out. It was in 2018 they had a downtown residential investment, or it, sorry, yeah, investment incentive. So if somebody were to take over a building that was an office space, because keep in mind, this is Calgary. It’s 2018 they have 50% office vacancy. They said they put 150 million that if a developer were to take a building and turn it from office to residential, they would get $75 a square foot to do that, which is people like, that’s that’s, why are we getting tax dollars to developers? Well, I’ll tell you why. Now, Calgary weathered COVID better than any other Canadian city, and they’re the downtown that has rebounded the fastest in North America. They had a residential population. Edmonton had 60,000 people coming downtown every day to were a government town, yeah, well, that’s only 12,000 people who live down here. It’s 12 square kilometers. We have the hardest hit downtown. And so it’s just interesting, this whole notion of how we are now advocating that we’re in the situation. We need to figure out housing, we need to figure out space, and we need to use tax dollars to get us out of it. And it’s very. Very controversial, but we ultimately, there’s no there’s not going to be a higher return on investment than figuring out the space. Yeah, that

Brandon Burton 30:07
is a that’s an interesting problem to solve and to address. I really am intrigued on the comment you made about the being purpose driven economy more so than a value driven economy. Now, and those that that do value, the value driven aspects are the ones that are not spending the money necessarily. So, you know, in a world where you know the Walmarts and Amazons have done so well because they offer the best value, how can a chamber business or a retail business, how can they lean more into that experiential, purpose driven type of economy?

Heather Thomson 30:49
It’s a great question. And this was something we came up when we were working with businesses, when I was at the university, because it’s really hard to have a business do something for 40 years, and it worked for 40 years, and all of a sudden it doesn’t, yeah, so I think the thing, the thing is, is that there’s so many different ways that you can add elements of purpose and a great experience, and without it being flashy and expensive. You know, I think one of the things that we’re that we’re seeing as as simple as possible, is just a better customer service. And this is something that, and this is the, I don’t know if the states has this problem, but in Canada, we are having a really difficult problem with our labor force, and due to a lot of injections throughout the COVID money, the younger like our unemployment numbers are made up a lot of new newcomers to Canada because our immigration, federal immigration plan was so flawed, and Canada has actually been a taste like a test case for a lot of other countries who are like, Don’t do this. Like we put so much emphasis in bringing on so many new people to Canada, which is great, but there wasn’t a lot of thought to it. So half of our unemployment rate federally is is with new newcomers to Canada. And I just can’t imagine being a new person coming to Canada and being kind of like, sold on this, like, new place to live, and not having a job. I would be like, it’s so many we’re going back, and it’s, it’s such an economic and social travesty that we have to, we have to deal with. And it and it is, it’s, you know, and the and the other half of that is young people. I didn’t see the other half, another large portion of the of the unemployment rate are young people. And what we’re, what we’re hearing, is actually a willingness to work situation. So this is, I’m curious to know, if you guys are seeing this the United States. We

Brandon Burton 32:39
are. Yeah, yeah. It seems like when COVID hit and a lot of stimulus money went out, all of a sudden people didn’t need to work. And I don’t know how they made the stimulus money last for four years, but they apparently still don’t need to work. So they still don’t need

Heather Thomson 32:52
to work. It’s crazy, yeah, and so, and that’s where, like, the customer service angle, to get back to that, that’s a hard one. You know, customer service is something that is dwindling in terms of, you know, something that we would even expect as as consumers. But so when people are like, What can I do? And like, do better customer service? Start there, and that’s anything from, like, I know there’s a pharmacy down the road, and they’re very sweet. They’ve been doing that forever from our house, and now they just have a sign, like, we’ll deliver. I’m like, great. I’m going from Safeway, I’m coming over to you. And it’s just like, they had all this extra time, and they have teenage kids, and so they’re like, we’re just, we’re gonna send them out deliver. Like, great. And so it’s just like a very small thing that it’s like, okay, that’s easy, because what we’re wanting to do is people are prioritizing their time. That’s what we’re seeing in this modern economy. And so this isn’t about convenience is going to win, right? So this is where I’m saying, like, you don’t need to go to bat with Amazon. You don’t need don’t worry about that. Convenience is really important, for sure, but I think there’s kind of a rule where you have to make it you have to make it easy, you have to make it fun, or you have to make it beautiful. So go in those categories. The beautiful one, I think, is really overlooked. And I actually get this is something I get really frustrated with, because whether you’re a value driven consumer or purpose driven consumer, people really enjoy beautiful spaces, pretty spaces. And so this is where, like, I actually have a podcast that talks solely about twinkle lights and the psychological point of twinkle lights, like, there’s my Disney reference, like, Main Street, right? Like you just, they have the perfect twinkle lights. And if you go down Main Street, you know, I just love it, because you see the garbage cans, or exactly, was it 10 feet away from one another? They had the blade signs. They have the good smell. And it’s, of course, it’s a simulated environment. I understand that, but there’s so many elements,

Brandon Burton 34:45
something to aspire to, though, exactly, I do

Heather Thomson 34:48
have to say that I know it’s a simulated environment. I don’t think any of us would actually want to live there, because it’s like creepy and pleasant Philly, but there are so you’re right, the cleanliness, the twinkle lights, you know when we. Were working with businesses during the pandemic. They’re like, I can’t keep up. And this one, one person was a forest, which, by the way, forest did very well during COVID. So I just want to say that. And this guy was like, yeah, we’re just we were sinking. We’re not getting any money. And I go there, your store is disgusting, like the windows are disgusting. Your light bulbs are burnt out. That is why you’re not making money, I can guarantee you, especially when you’re like, when you’re unfortunately, when you’re like, a Hair Studio, nail place, anything that is lending itself to already improving esthetics, well, guess what? You have to make it look even better. So there’s just, there’s a lot of things that we need to do that can actually bring that sort of purpose element. And it doesn’t have to be this Disneyland mentality or the budget, but I think that that is one of those things where businesses can actually just kind of get back to some nostalgia and get back to what’s really what used to work, even in the 50s and 60s, because people data is very clear that people are wanting those experiences.

Brandon Burton 35:58
Yeah, well, and to your point as we make as a chamber. If we can get members and retail businesses to create the easy, fun and beautiful environments and experiences, it’s going to reflect very well on our community as well, and it’s going to be welcoming. It’s going to be a place where people want to come from outside to spend money in the community as well. So it doesn’t just help the business, but it helps the overall community

Heather Thomson 36:24
Exactly. And wealth begets wealth. And I want that to be like a bumper sticker everywhere. People are thinking, Well, no, if they get it, then I don’t get it. I’m like, No. Like, can you imagine if Nashville was, like, only one music studio that’s like, no. It’s like, it’s empirically false. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 36:40
it’s not a pie so, right? Well, Heather, this has been very fun to dive into this and hear some of these ideas and research and things that that you’ve noticed, these trends that are happening, good things for chambers, listening to kind of ponder on and to see how they can implement and make some adjustments within their community. But I wanted to ask you, as we start wrapping things up for the chamber listening, who’s wanting to take their organization up to the next level, what kind of tip or action item might you share with them trying to accomplish that goal?

Heather Thomson 37:19
That’s a very, good question. I think depending on your community gaps, one of the good things, a challenge about being a Chamber of Commerce is the umbrella of value is very large, and so that’s kind of what we had to figure out here, is like we can’t be everything for everyone, and we can’t do everything. So what are we going to do that’s really impactful and kind of ignore the rest? And so I would say, figure out what’s not being done in the ecosystem and then go and fill that that gap. And thankfully, in our in our case, it was in sad case, we are not we don’t get a penny from the government. So we can be the advocate that the business community needs us to be. So we can, we can we can talk about, you know, just give you the example I was kind of alluding to. Federally, they’re removing GST for two months, starting tomorrow, over the holidays. This podcast is being done, you know, at the end of 2024 and, yeah, they’re removing GST for two months. And this is in, like, absolutely awful. It’s the worst thing we can do for the economy. Business community hates it, so it’s kind of fun, because it’s such a layup for us to, like, be such a stark advocate that this is so bad. But that’s the space we’re really leaning into. And so if we’re looking at, how are you going to be successful? Like, pick something and do it really well, whether, like, I know, a chamber of commerce, just just to the south of us, there are regional, there are massive Regional Chamber of Commerce, which I also recommend, by the way, if you’re struggling for resources, amalgamate. Like, like, you know, I know, like, someone has to fall on the sword, but just do it. But they, they, they are so great at networking. They are like, the hottest ticket in town. They are the ones that are like, come to this event. We’ve got you. You got to learn this. So their big thing is, like, education and networking and growing your your business through other people. So, so, yeah, we do lots of partnerships, and that’s the thing. Like, I don’t, I don’t need to do that, because they’re doing it. And so that’s the thing where it’s like, just figure out what you need to do.

Brandon Burton 39:27
Yeah? I like that. Find the gaps and lean into them and own

Heather Thomson 39:31
them. Yeah, yeah. And then ask for money. Yeah. I love it.

Unknown Speaker 39:34
I love that idea. I know

Heather Thomson 39:37
it’s so easy. Once you have a good idea, it’s always true. Like, well, let’s ask for money. I’m like, no, what do you like? Make the good idea first, then you can find funding. Funding is actually quite easy. I’ll say in Canada, when you have a purpose, when you have a purpose, but yeah, or and if they could get rid of matching grants,

Brandon Burton 39:52
yeah, yeah, that too. Well, Heather, as we look to the future of chambers, how do you see the future of chambers of commerce and their purpose going? Forward.

Heather Thomson 40:00
Oh, this is tough. If you’d have asked me this, like, two years ago, I’d be like, chambers probably aren’t long for this world. And I still feel like that from just from a risk standpoint, because there are so many member based organizations, right? It feels like I turn around and there’s another one and there’s another one, it’s like, Well, I’m a member of, you know, the Urban Development Institute. Now I’m a member of the Edmonton construction Association, and they’re all, they’re all money based memberships, and that’s the other thing that’s really tricky. And so I think that’s one of the biggest risks that we have, is like, how are we competing with them, making sure that our membership is the best membership, and and I think we have some ground to make up for that, certainly. And so I think as long as we we can do that and actually be what the business community needs us, and at the end of the day, producing results that are getting more money in the in the region, and I think, I think we’re good. And the other thing I would say is we have such an active membership and board, and I think that’s one of those things where it’s like, kind of that fear of missing out being part of a club with there’s so many different member orgs. Like, I honestly can make like a Disney moms in Edmonton Association, right? Like, there’s nothing to stop you. Yeah, nothing to stop them. In fact, I think I might

Brandon Burton 41:23
it’s a great idea. Yeah, exactly. But like

Heather Thomson 41:25
with the internet and even, like podcast, like anyone can do it, and so I think that’s one of the things that I’m, like, quite nervous about, is like, how are people choosing us? How are we the number one stop, and how are we worth the money? Yeah, yep.

Brandon Burton 41:39
Goes back to finding those gaps in the community and owning them and standing apart showing the value. Well, Heather, this has been a great conversation, and I really appreciate you spending time with us today. I wanted to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for listeners who might want to reach out and learn more about your approaches and how you guys are doing things there in Edmonton. What would be the best way for them to reach out and connect? Reach out and

Heather Thomson 42:04
connect my email is actually probably the best. So it’s, it’s Heather, no, it’s not. That’s probably know it I’ve been here for 10 months. It’s hthomson@edmontonchamber.com. Yes.

Brandon Burton 42:22
I can double check it for you. We’ll get it in the show notes either way, so we’ll make it easy for people to find and be able to reach out to you. But Heather, I just want to thank you again for spending time with us. This has been fun. It’s insightful and really forward leaning as we we look at these types of experiences people are looking for as they interact with the retail businesses in our communities and and really seeing where those needs are to be able to help businesses make money to prove the value of the chamber, but having our communities thrive as well. So I really appreciate you spending these these few moments with us and sharing these insights. Well, thank

Heather Thomson 43:01
you so much for having me. I clearly could talk about this all day, and I know we’re all even though we’re all pretty geographically spread out, I know that we are kind of all singing from the same song sheet and having a lot of similar problems. So I appreciate your time as well.

Brandon Burton 43:17
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Engaging Partners in Purpose with Carl Blackstone

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your hosts Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

Our title sponsor for this episode is Bringing Local Back. Remember when your community could turn to a local TV station or newspaper for the latest updates and affordable ads? Those days may be fading, but the need for local connection remains. That’s why we created Bringing Local Back, a game changing platform that restores the local visibility and advertising power to your community. It’s more than just tech. It’s about driving engagement and creating new revenue for your chamber. Ready to see the future visit bringinglocalback.com to schedule your demo today. This is the future of local commerce.

Our guest for this episode is Carl Blackstone. Carl has a deep knowledge of working with small and large businesses as a well as well as professional trade associations on local, state and federal levels. Carl has served as the former manager of the State Government Relations for the South Carolina Chamber of Commerce and as a district field manager for Mark Sanford when he served in the US House, Senate representative, in addition to other community roles, currently, he serves on the board of the Association of Chamber of Commerce executives and the South Carolina State Chamber of Commerce as the President and CEO of the Columbia Chamber. Carl’s focus is creating a strategy to make and to help make the region more competitive for the next 20 years. Carl, I’m excited to have you with us today here on Chamber Chat Podcast. I’d love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the Chamber Champions who are out there listening and to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better. Well, greetings

Carl Blackstone 2:06
and from South Carolina. Great to be with you today, and thanks so much for having me. You know, this chamber world is so small. I’ve met so many folks from around the country. They’re in chambers, but I haven’t met you. I apologize, but look forward to one day, but I’m just a boring guy from the southeast. I got four daughters. They’re in college, and so I’ll be working forever. But I love what I do and enjoy it very much. But otherwise, I’m just a boring guy,

Brandon Burton 2:35
a boring guy. Yeah, I’ve got, I’ve got three daughters myself, son and three daughters. So I can, I can sympathize with you a little bit. It’s great, but, yeah, we’ll be, we’ll be working a long time. That’s right. Well, Carl, tell us a little bit about the Columbia chamber. Give us an idea of the size, staff, budget, scope of work to kind of set the stage for our discussion.

Carl Blackstone 2:56
So we’ve been around. Were found in 1902 and so we’ve been around for 125 years or so. We have we’re mid sized chamber. We’ve got a staff of about 15. We’ve got a budget little two, two and a half million dollars, and about 12, 1300 partners in our under the umbrella Columbia as a whole is capital city, smack dab in the middle of the great state of South Carolina. Metropolitan Area is a little less than a million people. It’s because it’s a state government town, capital city, we have the University of South Carolina two blocks from my office. It’s been somewhat of a different place for businesses, because everybody knows it’s a government town, and the government mentality has been very strong here for years, and so when I I’ve been here for 10 years as the CEO. I’m not didn’t grow up through chambers. I worked at the State Chamber and and did lobbying work for the State Chamber years ago, but I didn’t really understand chambers, and that was a State Chamber, not a local chamber. And so when I found myself in this position, I’m like, holy cow, it’s a new world, and I’ve learned a ton. But the hardest thing we’ve had to do is really change the mentality of Columbia businesses. Say, Yes, we are government town. That is a positive, that is a wonderful thing, great attributes to have for recruiting businesses. But that’s not the only thing we are. We have great companies here, we need to be a little bit more pro business and think differently on how we approach things. And so at that time, 10 years ago, the we weren’t doing well. The city was not growing. We’re pretty stagnant, quite frankly, over the last 30 years. And that’s combination of the. Poor leadership, poor planning. It literally was acting from the business community, quite frankly, that that had created systemic problems that we needed to address. And so we needed more business minded people representing us on the city county level. We needed just to be more aware of what was going on and engaged in the political process, which helps. I mean, if you think about what government does on a day to day basis, they can help you, hurt you, and if you learn the business, we have a significant as a whole. Everybody thinks the southeast is got cheap labor, cheap taxes, cheap land, everything. But in reality, that’s not the case, especially in capital cities. Capital Cities are unique, and we have to high taxes, and it keeps businesses from looking to this area. And so we’ve had a challenge over the last 10 years, but I think we’re in a good spot now, which is pretty exciting.

Brandon Burton 6:02
Yeah, I can see where being in a capital city could definitely have its its benefits, but some challenges along with it, and it’s something that piqued my interest is when you you’d mentioned some of the challenges when you came into this position 10 years ago, to kind of boil down to apathy from the business community. I thought that’s a that’s an interesting approach. Could you talk a little bit more to that?

Carl Blackstone 6:24
Yeah, well, a lot of the folks that were engaged Jamie, we had a stagnant board. We I, I’ve said it over and over, so this is not first time. So we were male, pale and stale, yeah, we were a functioning board that was doing the same things we’ve always done, and it was, in my opinion, wasn’t healthy. We weren’t creating an environment where new people wanted to come right?

Brandon Burton 6:50
Yep, it sounds like your chamber was a the traditional Chamber of 10 years ago. The male pale and stale, yeah. And so

Carl Blackstone 6:59
we were, we were, we’re a traditional chamber, but traditional in the sense that 35 years ago we split economic development out. We’d also we’re a chamber that does not have the local tourism industry at all. That’s a whole separate group. And my predecessors, and there were reasons why they did it. I wasn’t around sorts. I don’t want to criticize them for it, but the long term impact was, what is a chamber that does not have economic development, that does not have tourism? What do you do? And how do you make yourself not relevant? But how do you find how do you make yourself essential to a community that was really down on itself and not grow it. It was stagnant. And so it was interesting back in 1950 Richmond, Virginia and Raleigh, North Carolina, Charlotte, Atlanta, Columbia, Austin, Texas, we’re all about the same size. And then you fast forward to 1980 in Richmond, Raleigh, Columbia, three capital cities in these southern states were all the same size, and all of a sudden, now Columbia hadn’t changed. The same size they were in 1980 and Richmond and Raleigh are totally different. Not that I want to be I don’t think anybody in Colombia wants to be those other cities. It’s how do we attract and retain talent here in Columbia, and how do we make ourselves a draw? And a lot of the things that we were doing systematically were just not good for business, high taxes, not innovating and really not doing a whole lot to to change it. We were doing everything that we were doing, and so our hope, my hope, and you know, the team that we we have, was like, alright, we can, we can be the best Columbia. We want to be the best Columbia, but we don’t have to sit and do things just because it’s the way we’ve always done it. And it was maybe two months into my 10 years, like, Why? Why are we doing this? Why are, why are we doing this event? Or why are we sending stuff up? Well, that’s the way we’ve always done it. Yeah, that’s got to stop

Brandon Burton 9:12
the wrong answer, right?

Carl Blackstone 9:15
Hear that again and but changing the leadership, and then also you gotta have, if you want to attract new businesses, they gotta feel like they’re have a route to be participating. They gotta be participatory. We need them involved, but we needed to. We need to change. We need to have a board that reflects the community, both not just demographically, but also we needed different. You know, at one time, we had a board of, you know, our idea was diversity was had six different bankers sitting around the boardroom. Well, that’s not, yes, we diversity in banks, but we don’t have diversity of. Thought diversity of industry, and so we’ve been very, very deliberate in making sure that our community feels like we’re reflective of them, but but more importantly, that we’re actually we appreciate in their ideas and their thoughts. And how do we be a little bit more progressive?

Brandon Burton 10:18
Yeah, I like those thoughts and your comments around the you know, seeing the other similar sized cities grow and develop in that time period and and to have Columbia stay about the same as it was in the 80s, anytime something stays stagnant, you know, life kind of ceases to happen, right? Things start to die off a little bit. And to be able to invigorate that again, get it going. That’s that’s the key, to be able to keep it. Don’t let things become stagnant, right, right? Yeah, keep

Carl Blackstone 10:48
that part and but that’s where the chamber can really, is that the Chamber’s responsibility by itself? No, absolutely not. There are no, uh, single person that can do anything. And so you got to work with your city leadership and your business leadership and and the triple part, I mean, the triple PS really do work, not just in development, but also with ideas and how to get things moving along. And so we’re in a different spot than we were 10 years ago. It’s pretty amazing. You know, our growth in South Carolina has been substantial since the late 90s and early 2000s in Charleston and Greenville and south of Charlotte’s coming this way. And so we just have not been able to capitalize. But we finally been able to do so, and we’re seeing significant four or five times annual growth of what we saw two or three years ago, which is nice.

Brandon Burton 11:44
That’s awesome. Well, that’s a great setup for our conversation today, giving us kind of that the background on Columbia, how things are sitting, you know, the role of the chamber right now in Columbia and and as we focus our conversation today, we’ll focus on some of these maybe more unique approaches, you know, ways you guys approach things versus maybe the way some other chambers approach things and and I hope that there’s some some key elements out of this conversation that others can take and scale to their chamber and and be able to maybe implement some of these things to invigorate life in their communities as well. And we’ll dive in much deeper on this conversation, since we get back from this quick break.

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All right, Carl, we’re back, as I mentioned before the break, we’re going to focus most of our conversation today around kind of the the unique approaches that the Columbia chamber takes to your chamber work, versus maybe that of what some other chambers do. And in your explanation and background of the Columbia chamber, I think you’ve hinted on on several of these things, from the business apathy and kind of changing that mindset to the board makeup. But what are some of these other approaches or mindsets that you guys are taking there in Columbia to really see some of that growth that you guys are seeing and and to maybe energize some other Chambers as well, and kind of spark some ideas for them.

Carl Blackstone 16:22
Listen, let me just say we are not unique, and we’re also, I ain’t a smart guy. I want to set the record on this straight, because what I what I did when I got here was I had the privilege of having fresh eyes. Fresh Eyes is a gift. When you come in to an organization and you bring or whenever I hire new people, is really dig in with them to see what they see, because we get blinders on. And I guess my biggest fear is complacency, and complacency is a cancer. It’s a form of cancer that can erode an organization. And so I ask and spend a lot of time with new board members or new staff members or new partners. Say, what do we need to be doing differently? What do you see that we’re doing, that we’re missing? But so being always trying to find new ways to do things, I think, is critical for any organization. The problem we have in chamber world is we always underfunded. We have few two staff, and the easiest thing to do is what we’ve always done. Creativity takes time and energy, and you have to spend hours talking to folks, and that’s hard, but I think the end result is a better product for your partners, and we’re seeing that today. How do we continue to morph, even though we’ve had a good run the last three or four years? What we need to do differently? And I think taking steps back and really sending surveys to our partners and asking right questions, being on the phone and talking to them all the time or all right, this is good. Is this working? But their engagement is critical. And however we can find, I can’t say we have figured it out yet at all, but what I’m we are striving every day to make sure that we stay in front of the curve and businesses, you know, the chambers are in these unique spot because we have to understand politics, we have to understand the business and economics and accounting and law and all these Other things that we have to think about on behalf of our business partners, but we didn’t go to school for any of this stuff, right? I mean, we’re we’re learning on the streets like everybody else, but we need to lean on our partners to figure out what they need and and for us, in South Carolina, we’re seeing this huge post COVID surge of population and businesses coming in and great what’s our biggest issue? It’s workforce. How do we help our our partners? How do we help train and think about the workforce next week, next year, five years, 10 years. So it’s getting the mindset of, let’s being a community builder. Let’s think about thinking long term strategies on how we can be a player in not just the here and now, but later. It’s tough, and a lot of times the market throws a curve at us, and we’re not expecting it. We’ve just gotta alter our thought. I hate the word pivot after COVID, COVID, but I’ll use that word. We’ve gotta be always ready to think differently, which is, which is a struggle, but for us today, here and now, uh. We landed a very large OEM in Columbia that’s going to be producing a automobile, and they need 4000 workers by next year. And how do we ramp up? Because we know when a new new shiny object comes to town, you’re going to see folks leaving one job to go to another, and we got to find the workforce. Really dig in to think differently. On working with our local school districts, our state government for incentive purposes, on retraining folks, getting more high school kids into the workforce, workforce, work based learning opportunities for our kids. It’s a whole new world. We weren’t thinking about this four years ago.

Brandon Burton 20:45
Yeah, and there’s, there’s a lot of focus right now among chambers on workforce. I mean, it seems like you mentioned that P word pivot. You know, I think we can go the rest of our life without having any unprecedented pivots happening in our life, right? I mean, at least not calling them those, but yeah, to be able to see where these needs are. And there’s been, you know, this, this mass exodus of the workforce. And when you are looking for that growth and revitalization and trying to spark that energy into the workforce, where do you find them? How do you how do you retain talent that you already have in the community, and especially when everybody’s, you know, kind of vying for this attention as well that it is a it is a unique problem, and chambers are poised perfectly to address it. So

Carl Blackstone 21:38
addresses one thing is we’ve also got to embrace what our partners need, and they see us as a resource. And big companies typically don’t need us to help them with their workforce issue. I mean, they’ve got resources, they’ve got staff, but it’s a second tier, third tier, companies that struggle so much, and they need us because they don’t have the depth and that they don’t have the understanding of all the things that go into it, and so to be a resource for them, but also learning from our larger partners to say, Hey, how are y’all doing things that we can help teach others to do? It’s it’s not again. We’re not creating new products. We’re just trying to be dot connectors and say, Hey, how can we learn from one teach another? And it really helps the overall community.

Brandon Burton 22:31
That is an interesting thought, because I’ve heard a lot of chambers talk about when that big factory opens up, a big, major employer comes to town and they’re wanting to know, you know, we need, like you said, 4000 jobs filled. Can you guys help supply that? But in reality, those big companies come in and those jobs will flock to them, but they’re going to leave their current position. So that second tier is really it’s like, yes, we can help you find the workforce there, but you go to work overtime trying to find the workforce to fill the backside. So

Carl Blackstone 23:02
it is truly Robin chambridge. Is Robin Peter to pay Paul. And it’s the mindset, all right, understand that those are, there’s going to be fluctuations, but we need to that’s 4000 jobs. Doesn’t seem like a lot to some people that are, you know, in the Dallas area, that’s growing that many people in a month or whatever, for us, think about housing and the impact it has on the housing, on the track, on the schools. What does that if we bring in 4000 new people, is that 6000 kids we’ve got to start educating, and where are we going to put them? So the overall thought process we have to be we’re in a unique position. All chambers are that there’s no other entity that can bring the private sector with the public sector to sit down and find opportunities and and long term strategies on a lot of these issues. You know, we asked for years and years, we relied on government to fix problems, and we’re asking elected officials to do things more than we’ve ever asked them to do, but we as a chamber can provide a lot of resources to help assist find folks that are experts in their field, that work in your community, and sit them down. Let’s let’s have dialog. Yeah, but these community problems are long term. They’re not going away tomorrow, but we got to be thinking about them today, and building those relationships and having those relationships with both public and private partners really are beneficial.

Brandon Burton 24:51
Yeah. So the thought keeps coming back to me about the comment about the apathy of business owners and your comment about elected. Officials just now, elected officials definitely have their place, right? I mean, it’s important to work with them and to have the advocacy approach and everything, but they don’t have the same kind of skin in the game as the business does on Main Street, right? Who’s relying on this to feed their family, to for their employees to feed their families? They’ve got skin in the game. So to be able to get those businesses engaged in helping to find, you know, those the the employment, to help solve some of these problems that have to pop up in communities, to really rely on that business community, I think, is the key. And we’re chambers, help convene, and you’re convening with the electric the elected officials and everything as well. But, really leaning on those that have the biggest to lose and the most to gain, really by the success in the community. So I think you hit the nail on the head, whether you meant to or not. I don’t know.

Carl Blackstone 25:53
Well, the hardest thing to do is when you hit apathy. The apathetic feeling yes is re engagement and finding hope and that things can get better. And it’s, you know, if you’re a small business that has 10 employees and you’re barely eking out a paycheck to very worried about meeting payroll every two weeks, it’s like, All right, do I really have time to think about regulatory relief. I feel it every day. I see it. I have to have staff to deal with it, but they don’t have to. You’ve gotta really educate them on how we can make things better. They gotta see the light at the end of the tunnel. And so rebuilding is tough, maintaining is tougher, but I promise is better than the

Brandon Burton 26:46
alternative. Yeah. So how do you what’s your approach with your partners, as you guys call them there in Columbia, what’s your approach with partners to help get them engaged, to to step away from that apathy and to really buy in? I know you had mentioned before surveying and listening to them, seeing what their needs are and and I know other chambers are going to hear that and say, nobody opens our surveys, nobody opens the emails. So how do you do that? How do you get that feedback? How do you get them to step away from the apathy and to really lean into that engagement? Well,

Carl Blackstone 27:18
you have to have multiple redundancies, right? I mean, there’s the open rate on those surveys are pretty abysmal, but it has to be done at different levels. So we try to have meetings every year or every month that are opportunities to engage the public sector. Private sector have not just talking about politics, but projects that are coming and then making sure that we’re asking questions while we’re with them, have open dialog times to for them to voice their opinions. What’s going on, what’s good, what’s bad, but at all of our events, our goal is to ask questions of what we need to be, what do we need to know to help you all? And as soon as you start that dialog, and you do it over and over again, they actually start to believe it, which is good. That’s what we want, but it does. It’s not a just mention it one time and expect a flood of phone calls or emails. No, that doesn’t happen, but it’s gotta be built in to the process of every month, our annual our monthly meetings, our quarterly meetings, small I mean, you know, but also you gotta put your money where your mouth is if you really are trying to focus on small business, alright, let’s create a new group dialog, just for small business. What do y’all want to hear? What do y’all need to do? Let’s just focus on the area that needs focusing and that’s helped, that served us well. The other is, and this is the hard thing about I’ve got the best staff, best team in the world. I love they are fantastic. But we also, day in and day out are in a bubble. Yeah, they don’t have to go in and clock in clock out, and they don’t have to deal with regulatory issues, and they don’t have to deal with a lot of stuff. But we think we do and or more importantly, we think we know what our partners want. And quite honestly, you know, the worst thing we can do is think for ourselves. We need engagement, and that’s the key. And I remind our board this all the time. Look, we need y’all to tell us, don’t expect us to be you know, what did Ronald Reagan say? I’m here with the government. I’m here to help. Yeah? I can’t pretend to to know exactly what the issues are in a business. I need them to tell us and so, but we got to have that open dialog. We got to it’s it’s repetitive. I spent hours on the phone, but it’s important to to make sure that we have. People that we can call or give us straight answers to what we need to be working with and making sure that we’re providing that ROI

Brandon Burton 30:06
to our partners. Yeah, if I could summarize it, I’d say just stay curious on what those needs are for your your partners and and you mentioned, you know, you’re not going to get that flood of phone calls or emails, which is probably a good thing, because I wouldn’t really be sustainable either you couldn’t address them all last time. You might it might help in seeing some trends, but being curious in those personal interactions, if you’re at a luncheon, or if you’re, you know, visiting some members as you talk to them, what are some of the challenges you’re facing? And have it be a genuine conversation versus just greeting them, you know, thanks for coming to the luncheon. Yeah, you can elevate that that short conversation so much higher by being curious.

Carl Blackstone 30:45
Well, folks think you know if, if they get the first phone call from me, and I only call them once a year when their renewals up, right? I mean, there’s not a whole lot of authenticity in that call, right? I mean, they know exactly what I’m up to, so it’s important to have multiple contacts just to know, hey, we really do care. We really are inquisitive. We want to know how we can be helpful. And those, again, it’s all relationships and building out those relationships are are better for us as a chamber, but long term, it truly helps not only the chamber, but it helps our retention. It helps across the board. Yeah, absolutely.

Brandon Burton 31:26
Well, Carl, as we begin to wrap things up, I wanted to to ask for the chamber listening. Who’s wanting to try to take their chamber up to the next level. You’ve shared some great insights. But do you have any you know actionable, maybe tips or action items that you can share with those listening to maybe try implementing at their chamber to spark some life and step away from the apathy.

Carl Blackstone 31:52
Well, I think they’re different communities. Each you meet one chamber, you meet one chamber, right? Everybody’s different. Every community is different. But I think when you find we’re not good at everything, we don’t know everything, and so I think we try hard to stay in contact with partners, ask them what we need to be doing. I don’t have a silver bullet. I’m just making this up as I go quite honestly, but I think over time, people see us as a resource. They that they need, and they feel like, if we don’t know the answer, it’s okay, but we’re gonna go figure it out and try to find the answer. And I think companies and people are very happy with that answer. It may not work for us if we’ll try new things. We’re not saving the world, we’re not curing cancer, we’re not we’re not doing brain surgery or anything like that. We try different things all the time. It works. It works. It doesn’t. It doesn’t. It could be a timing issue, just could be whatever. But don’t be afraid to try new things. Don’t be afraid to ask questions. Don’t Don’t hesitate, because the end of the day, we’re going to be doing this tomorrow, and we’ll try something else. So I, I think too many people try not to take risks. I like taking risks even little old nonprofit that we run. I think it’s, it’s worth, worth doing, yeah, and then again, it goes back to my biggest fear, which is complacency. So taking risks helps alleviate a little bit of that complacency.

Brandon Burton 33:34
Absolutely get to find some comfort in the discomfort, right? That’s right. So you mentioned that, you know, you’re just trying to figure it out as you go, but I’d say that the key element to that is taking the feedback. So as you implement new things, you’re you’re being staying curious, getting that feedback and that that tells you that’s your your guide as to what’s working, what’s not. Well, I like asking everyone I have on the show as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the purpose of chambers going forward?

Carl Blackstone 34:07
I you know, I think the best years of chambers are yet to come. I recognize them. Why they were created years ago, and the value that proposition that they’ve offered in years to years have just been B to B, and I don’t think that goes away. What I do think, though, as businesses in this environment that we’re in right now, political, environment, world, environment, whatever chambers, have this unique opportunity to really help define their communities for generations, and what the stuff we’re working on today may not come to fruition for 10 to 1520, years, but being at the table and helping solve these critical problems are important, and there’s no other group, if you look around, who’s going to be there? Well, it’s got to be the chambers, and it may be uncomfortable at times. It may. Be not fun, but at the end of the day, is it necessary? And businesses want to go and relocate, or they want to flourish where they can feel like they have they want to live work and play. Their employees want to live work and play in a community that’s vibrant, that is in an atmosphere that can make money, but they have a great quality of life, and so chamber is going to have to be at the tip of the spear in creating some of these long term strategies in their communities to fulfill the needs of business. So it’s going to be a fun challenge for the next few years. I’m excited. It’s new, different. Every day is different, so it’ll be fun. But I think looking at your book of work today knowing that it’s got to change, what can you live without? What Can You Live Without doing and what? What’s the best ROI for your partners, your numbers, or whatever? That’s what’s going to have to drive you. So, yeah, what

Brandon Burton 36:07
I find super interesting about chamber work is it is never ending. You know, once you solve one problem, there’s always going to be another, another thing to address. So never Is it the work of a chamber going to be complete. So job security there. So well. Carl, for listeners who may want to reach out and connect with you, what would be the best way that you’d have them reach out and contact if they had any questions we talked about you can hit our columbiachamber.com

Carl Blackstone 36:36
or cblackstone@columbiachamber.com we’ll get right to me. So love to if I’ve ever, if you ever have a question, if I can be a resource, let me know

Brandon Burton 36:45
that’s perfect. We’ll get that in our show notes for this episode. But appreciate you taking some time to be with us today, here on chamber tap podcast, share some of the approaches you guys have taken and really, you know, diving into engaging with your partners and helping them step away from that apathy that’s that’s so critical and keeping the work of chambers moving forward. So thanks.

Carl Blackstone 37:06
Yeah, absolutely, don’t be afraid to reach out. My My was reluctant when I first got to the Chamber of reaching out and asking for help, and call it pride, call whatever it was, but the best resources for me are other chambers, and we love the R & D working chamber world, reuse and duplicate, so embrace that as well, but find a mentor, find a friend at another chamber and and pick their brain. It’s a huge help.

Brandon Burton 37:35
I love that plug. That’s why this podcast exists. To your R & D. Well, thank you, Carl, this has been great, and I appreciate spending time with you today, and for you carving out some time to talk with us, this has been wonderful.

Carl Blackstone 37:47
Thank you. I’ve enjoyed it. Thanks.

Brandon Burton 37:50
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Navigating Contracts with Angela Wilson

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your hosts Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

Our title sponsor for this episode is Bringing Local Back. Remember when your community could turn to a local TV station or newspaper for the latest updates and affordable ads? Those days may be fading, but the need for local connection remains. That’s why we created Bringing Local Back, a game changing platform that restores the local visibility and advertising power to your community. It’s more than just tech. It’s about driving engagement and creating new revenue for your chamber. Ready to see the future visit bringinglocalback.com to schedule your demo today. This is the future of local commerce.

Our guest for this episode is Angela Wilson. Angela is the President and CEO of the Greater Muskogee Area Chamber of Commerce. Angela provides the overall daily management of all departments of the chamber and works with the Chamber’s board of directors to ensure the Chamber’s mission is achieved. She became the Chamber’s President and CEO in November of 2019 after serving as Vice President and Director of Programs for six years, she oversaw all of the Chamber’s programs and events and all non news revenue projects, which make up approximately half of the Chamber’s annual operating budget. Angela has worked at the Muscogee Chamber Since 2012 after serving as a tourism director and executive director for the Chamber of Commerce in Coffeyville, Kansas for four years. Angela began her career with the Muskogee chamber as the program and sales director in 2016 was promoted to Vice President and Director of Programs. Angela has a Bachelor of Arts degree in communications from Metropolitan State University of Denver in Colorado. She is an IOM graduate and a graduate of leadership, Coffeyville leadership, Mugi OCC chamber Management Institute, OK, CNP, non profit management and Dale Carnegie effective communications and human relations. Angela currently serves as chair on the OCC board of directors, Mako Conference Board of Directors, and the President of the Board of Trustees for the Muscogee public schools, education board of directors. Angela, I’m excited to have you with us today, here on chamber chat podcast, I’d love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the chamber champions who are out there listening, and to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better. Sure.

Angela Wilson 2:52
Thank you for having me today. It was an honor to be asked to do this. I should could throw rich Cantillon. We used to be with the Ponca City Chamber in Oklahoma, throw him under the bus for signing me up for this that he deserves it. And though I love to share, I love to help other chambers. So in any way, I hope someone takes maybe just something from this today to help them

Brandon Burton 3:17
absolutely, and I’m sure that’s, that’s what the whole purpose of this is, right? Is to bring people on and their perspectives from their their part of the world, their part of the country, and their scope of work at their chamber and and we’ll, we’ll flesh out those things that can be a value to others listening. So tell us a little bit about the greater Muskogee Area Chamber, just to kind of set the stage. Give us an idea the size of your chamber staff, budget, scope of work, just to kind of prep us for our conversation today.

Angela Wilson 3:48
Sure, and those of you don’t know we are Muskogee, Oklahoma, USA. You might have heard a song before okie from Muskogee, from Earl haggard. That’s usually what people associate us with. But we are located, for those, again, that don’t know, in eastern Oklahoma. We’re about 45 minutes from Tulsa, so we kind of sit out. We are a micropolitan community of about 35,000 people. Our chamber has about 375 members. We know, give or take those, our budget is about a $375,000 budget, and we have, right now a staff of three. I’m in that little transition where I’m down one staff and so again, we’re like all chambers. Do we reevaluate if we want to fill that position, or if we think we can, obviously we all know we can take on more work, because we always think we can, but we’re kind of in that time where we’re reevaluating if we want to fill that so normally we’re a staff of four, and we are again solely just a chamber. And. Yeah, we

Brandon Burton 5:01
love it. So I think it’s probably fair to say most chambers are operating one or two staff people below what they need, right? So probably, probably put you right in the right the sweet zone, right there. So

Angela Wilson 5:13
yeah, we always take on more work. For some reason, I It’s really weird. Yes, we can do it. Yes, we can

Brandon Burton 5:19
do it. Yeah, chambers have a problem with saying no or problem saying yes. Maybe is what it

Angela Wilson 5:24
is yeah that we need to go to get help for saying yes to everything

Brandon Burton 5:28
absolutely. Well, I’m excited for our topic today. It’s something we haven’t really spent much time on in over 300 episodes of Chamber Chat Podcast, but it’s a focus of navigating contracts. So I know a lot of chambers out there have either tourism contracts or economic development contracts or maybe a Downtown Association contract of some sort. But all these variety of different types of contracts may or may not come across the desk of the the chamber, and the Chamber might seek them out. They might be sought out in some cases, but either way, I think it’s a good opportunity for us to have a conversation about how a chamber can go about navigating and maybe even negotiating some of these contracts as a as they appear. So I think there’s going to be a lot of value for listeners today, and look forward to getting to this with you right after this quick break.

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All right, Angela, we’re back. So as I mentioned before the break, we’re focusing our conversation today around negotiating contracts. As you introduced the greater Muskogee Area Chamber, you mentioned that you’re solely a Chamber of Commerce. I know that hasn’t always been the case, but if, if you want to take the mic and kind of give us the background and evolution of of the Muskie chamber, just to kind of set the table for us. I think that may be helpful, sure.

Angela Wilson 9:08
So when I started in 2012 we had a contract with the city for tourism, and we had a tourism staff of about, I think, three other people, and again, the Chamber has an administrative fee that we take off that contract, like every contract that we have. Well at the time, every year, that contract auto renewed. We went to City Council, we did our presentation. What we did that year, we went about our way. The chamber was very heavy in tourism. We were known for having fun, doing all these parties, entertaining, you know, at all these big events that tourism was hosting, and the Chamber kind of took a back seat to that. Well, fast forward about five or six years, and that tourism budget was. Is over a million dollars. And so when people see that, oh, I can do that, they make it look so easy and so fun. And there was always people, every year, probably since I’ve been here, that thought they could do it better. And so, come about 2017 18. There was a lot of pressure from City Council. They were, they were feeling the pressure from outside sources to kind of put their thumb on what tourism was doing. And so, you know, around here, we batten down the hatches. We jumped through tons of tons of hoops. I think our president and CEO of the chamber at the time, she spent probably 85% of her time dealing with tourism, and so again, the Chamber suffered from that. So I’m over here as vice president, holding down the chamber because we’re dealing with all of this outside noise for tourism. They completely changed. Our board completely made. You know, everyone track their time like just everything was ridiculous, almost, um, and so, you know, my president, CEO, she left, and at the time, I’m thinking, Oh, God, do I want this job? Do I want it? Do I want it? And my kind of analogy of it is, I know it was a bowl of crap, and I’ve decided to eat that bowl of crap when I applied for this job. So that’s go to 2019 I accept this job, and, you know, the pressure is still there, the red tape we’re dealing with non stop. And then COVID happens, and then I’m really thinking to myself, Oh my gosh, what did I really do? Well, when COVID happened, we didn’t know what our budget was going to be. We didn’t know if people were gonna they’re not traveling, like, oh gosh, you know, layoffs, whatever. We just didn’t. Nobody knew. And so, um, we worked. I spoke with my board, and I said, you know, guys, is this really worth it what we’re dealing with, and our chamber is suffering. Um, our Chamber members. They just think we do tourism. They don’t know what they get as a chamber member. And so with kind of all of that background and just everything going on, we decided to part ways with that contract. It wasn’t easy. It was some difficult conversations with my board, with the city manager, with the mayor, but we decided we needed to do what was best for our chamber, and letting that contract go was what was best for our chamber. Now it came with a loss of that administrative fee, loss of jobs that I had to lay off people, and so it wasn’t a fun time. And you then COVID still going on. So you’re like, oh God, we can’t do events. Oh god, you know, what did we do as a chamber? Are we going to be okay? So the fall of 21 was October of 21 was the end date for that contract. So we gave it back to the city on a silver platter, and said, Here you go. Good luck. We’ll be here if you need some help, but have fun and take it on. And so the city took it in house for a little bit, and then they re contracted it back out to a third party again. But, you know, as a chamber, it was our time then to rebrand as a chamber and say, Where do we want to go from here? What do our Chamber members want? So we sent surveys out, we visited with members. We kind of rebranded of what we do. We had a whole new program of work. Just everything was completely new, and it was scary, very scary, but it took us about three years to recuperate that admin fee is about $30,000 so we took us years, you know, just biting away each year at a time, and we did it. And it was a very rewarding kind of deal to be a part of, to be like, we’ve done this, we’re okay. We never had to pull money from reserves. We never had to do any of that. And you know, it was just a time, and our members recognized that, hey, they’re really asking me what I want as a member. And so we put some new programs out there. We got rid of a couple programs, and so looking back now, is the best thing we’ve ever done. We are, I say, we live our best life. We have no other contracts. We don’t do the economic development contract. So we are solely a chamber on our own, and it is very nice. So we answer to our members. We do what we want. We want to make up something and do something. We do it. We don’t want to. We don’t, don’t, don’t want to. We don’t have to. We’re not on purse strings or Puppet Strings of any entity, if it’s a city, county, whatever it might be, just our members. Yeah.

Brandon Burton 14:59
Yeah, and I can see where it can be difficult to serve two masters, right? So if you’ve got your chamber board, you’ve got a tourism board, and they’re wanting different things, and you’ve got staff that are allocating time different ways, trying to keep all that straight. It can be a headache. It can be a burden. I can see the benefit, of course, to be able to synergize, you know, the efforts that the chamber is doing with tourism and trying to bring that all under one focus, I can definitely see that and and we’ve had episodes where we’ve talked about where that can be a huge benefit, but when it’s splitting time going different ways, it has you not able to perform to your capabilities, really, as a chamber, they mentioned for your members to be able to understand what they get as a chamber member, I think is so important to be able to put that focus back there. So since that separation, the decoupling of the tourism contract, we call it a divorce

Angela Wilson 16:01
and the COVID, I guess I don’t know,

Brandon Burton 16:05
good terms, right? Do you have visitation? Yeah, we

Angela Wilson 16:09
have. They come visit every now and then. That’s

Brandon Burton 16:15
funny, but I imagine I mean, you still have an interest in tourism, right? I mean, a strong tourism in the Muskogee area is going to benefit your Chamber members as well. So there’s still win win within that, but not having that that burden or that weight upon you to perform in certain ways and to have the expectations that you need to meet. Can you talk to us a little bit about what that approach has been like since then, and involvement with tourism now that it’s not you know that that weight that’s on you as well,

Angela Wilson 16:45
sure, and I will say when it got really bad. I mean, we had open records requests from people for tourism. The Attorney General’s office was calling me that we were embezzling all like it was just to the point where you’re like, This is crazy things, and nothing came of any of it. So you’re like, Well, we know we’ve had audits, and we do our audits every year. We’re okay, but you know, just going forward, we’ve been there to help them. When they transitioned over, they would call us to say, how did you guys do this? Or what did you do about this? And they’ve had a couple tourism directors since then. So each time they get a new one, they call us and you know, we’re there. If we need to be, we’re going to partner. We’re going to do what’s best for Muskogee at the end of the day. But do I ever want it back? I don’t think so, unless it’s just really that bad that we need to take it back in. But it was just an opportunity for us to be us and not be everyone just associated us with tourism before we were I mean, at one time, there was all women here, and they were the chamber chicks, but they were the happy go lucky face of Muscogee, because they were tourism, and so we needed to be a more professional organization and here for our businesses and be taken seriously, be at the table on serious conversations, and not just, you know, fishing tournaments and this and that and this, parties, fun things. So we have kind of really stepped it up as more of a professional organization. You know, we still have fun, but we try to be, you know, that pinnacle the top of what we can be in Muskogee, when we do things, we want to be the best at it. But with tourism, you know, we’re all partners. We all try to partner with things, with our economic development, with the city, with the county, we definitely try to break down those silos and partner and move forward and do what’s best for Muskogee. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 18:50
I can see we’re after the divorce to be able to focus more on the 3c versus the 3p right as a chamber and your focus. What would you say for chambers out there that are either considering a partnership or considering dissolving a partnership? What are some of those things that need to be thought of and really calculated into to making these sort of decisions? I know sometimes the decisions are made for you, but if you’re if you still have a seat at the table and you’ve got some input, what are some things to be considered sure

Angela Wilson 19:25
if you aren’t considering it, my top piece of advice would be, make sure that contract is strong, strong, strong, and you have your best interest at the very front of that. Because, you know, for ours, was just auto renew, auto renew, the good old boy system. Well, then all of a sudden they wanted to have batten down and hatch down this contract. And it was just, it was a waste of everyone’s time and money and effort for things, I get a contract. But looking back. Hindsight, there’s different things of who owns what. We’ve gone through that with a logo and a branding, does tourism own it, or does the chamber own it? Buildings? Did they pay rent? If they had, you know, put money into the building? Who has what desks like it is very simple, things you don’t think about. And then if your logo, if you’re going to dissolve it, if your logo has chamber and tourism, well, guess what? Your chamber is going to have to pay for all new branding, all new envelopes, all new signs, whatever it might be, business cards. There’s a lot of just little things you don’t think about that that logo and tourism was on, so make sure that you set yourself up as a chamber. Set yourself up right and solid. Consult with an attorney. Please do that before you sign any contract. Don’t just let the city or the county hand you one and say, sign this. Have those conversations with your board of if we weren’t to do this tomorrow, what would we look like? Can we still keep our doors open? Can we still be successful or and make sure it is tourism is one side and there’s a high wall of chamber on the other. Do not merge those. It can get muddy. It can get very gray, and you don’t want you don’t want any part of that either. So keep things very clear, separate, a separate checking account for your tourism, a separate checking account for your chamber. I know there’s some out there that blend those two and Good gosh, makes me cringe, but they are separate, separate audits. Just make sure everything is very clean financially. So you know, if you do have an open records request, here you go, and you’re clean. And that is another perk right now, is we don’t have, we’re not subject to open records, not that we’re doing anything shady, but yeah, but we can say no, if we really need to, but at the end of the day, make sure the chamber everything is secure for the chamber, and that’s what look out for the chamber at the end of the day. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 22:11
on a smaller scale, it makes me think of the small business owner who may be commingling their personal funds with their business funds, and, you know, working out of their other house, but not paying themselves rent, and then they go to sell a business, and, well, what do you have to sell? What? What’s here? And so keeping things clean, and, like you said, having the contracts really buttoned down, to be able to know, you know, is the tourism or is economic development? Are they paying for rent? Are they do they own certain computers and desks, and being able to have that, that separation, but within the same umbrella, Giving definition, I guess is, is the way to say it. But I

Angela Wilson 22:49
think document everything. And you know, most of the time you should have on tourism side. If you’ve purchased the desk computers, you know all that. So if you have it, but make sure it’s very clear who owns what in your office, because we had to spend many times of like, okay, this desk has been sitting upstairs. Who bought this? Or you just don’t know, sign on the side of the building, who owns that you don’t know. You know it’s one of those things. So definitely keep track of everything.

Brandon Burton 23:25
Yeah, I can see when you take on a contract, it can be exciting to say, look, we’re getting a new sign, new business cards, new website like all this to rebrand. And you know, this is a new, fun, exciting thing, and there should be an influx of of income coming with that to the chamber. But on the opposite end, when you’re separating, not only are you losing the contract, the administrative funds, but also the cost to go through and change all those things too. Yeah, may not be less exciting. It’s a different kind of excitement, I suppose, yeah.

Angela Wilson 23:56
And when you have to, you know, if you have delay people off, tourism employees, it’s going to affect your the Chamber’s unemployment rate for a couple of years that happened to us. So there’s just little things that trickle downhill. But at the end of the day, looking back, it was on my end. It was worth it, if I were to take on again, like we’ve said, another contract or something else, if it was be a main street or an economic development I know now to make sure that that contract is solid. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 24:30
absolutely. So. As you’ve seen this, the separation, the divorce, the uncoupling, the de burtoning, how have you been able to see the focus on the members. What’s the member response been like? Has you been able to focus on them and the value that they get as a chamber member? Now, sure,

Angela Wilson 24:50
one of our first things we did in the spring of 22 we did a membership Blitz, and we went and visited 100 members. I. Was our goal, and just sat down with them and just said, what’s going on? What can we help you with? We don’t want anything. We don’t want any money. What are you dealing with? What can we do better? And so a lot of them just appreciated that they hadn’t seen people from the chamber in a while. They hadn’t had a chamber voice in a while. And so we took some of that feedback and just built a better chamber for that. Or people, you know, hey, I would really like you to bring back this or this. And so we’ve tried to implement those things, and people have really appreciated it. And they’re like, you know, you guys are doing a great job, and I appreciate you. Guys have been more attentive to us, and so just those little things in, you know, making what we do more relevant. This is what the chamber is. This is what our mission is. This is what our program of work is, and that’s who we are. And what can we do for you is really what we spent that next year saying, what is our chamber want? What do you guys need? We’re here for you. We’re open. And we got so much positive feedback of that, of just those little conversations. And you know, I was driving yesterday home from a meeting, I’m thinking, I think I want to do another one of those membership blitzes again, just to go out and just visit people that we don’t normally get to visit with and see. But that was probably the most impactful thing that we did, was just visiting with people and asking what they want, not what we want, what they want. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 26:37
and another listening tour sounds like a great idea, and be able to being able to see now that about three years post separation, if I if I’m doing my math correct, yes, it’s not, it’s not hard math, but I want to make sure I got the dates right to be able to do another follow up listening tour like that. And I would be curious to see what’s the the image of the chamber. How has that changed over those three years? Sure people

Angela Wilson 27:03
take us more serious. Now we’re not just the party, fun, happy, go lucky. We’re here for our members. We’re intentional about what we do. We’ve made some other changes internally of our processes for new members. We just are really intentional about what our members want, and we’re more professional level of what we we want to do, what we need to do. We’re there. And, you know, people recognize that. They say, you know, the Chamber events are always the best events, and we always try to be, you know, creative when we do our events, of the best advice sometimes I ever heard was, if you don’t want to be there, probably they don’t want to be there as well. So I was take that into consideration when we’re planning events or planning programming. Good gosh, I want to be there, and if I don’t, probably nobody else really does and not being able to don’t be afraid to try new things. Try it if it fails. So what you tried it, and you can go on down the road if something’s not working. Don’t be afraid to get rid of it. That’s probably my biggest piece of advice of as a chamber of when I came on the first time I tried to get rid of a program, I was scared to death. I thought I was gonna lose my job. Thought people were gonna run me out of town. And people came back and said, Thank you for getting rid of that. I thought it was waste of time. I was like, Oh, thank you. So that would be my thing is, don’t be afraid to change just because I hate saying this, but you’ve always done it that way. Doesn’t mean you have to continue doing it that way. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 28:43
we’ve got a whole episode about burning sacred cows, so you can go back in the archives and listen to that and and learn how you can get rid of some of these programs that are not serving you or the chamber anymore. So if they’re not serving the chamber, they’re probably not serving anybody else, and people are doing it out of obligation or guilt, and you can level it up and do something much more effective and impactful. So yes, amen, good. Good comment. Well, Angela, as we start to wrap up, I always like asking for listeners who are wanting to take their chamber up to the next level, what kind of tip or action item might you have to share with them to try to accomplish that goal. You just mentioned one. But does anything else come to mind that you’d like to share? Probably,

Angela Wilson 29:26
again, I would just echo, don’t be afraid of Chinese things and look out for the best interest of the chamber. Be that arm, be that solid pillar in the community. Not everyone’s gonna like everything you do, but that’s okay, at least they’re noticing what you’re doing and do what’s best for you. At the end of the day, you need to have your back, your board needs to have your back and your chambers

Brandon Burton 29:54
absolutely and I’ve mentioned it several times in past episodes, but if you’re focused. On what’s good for the business community. In your community, it’s hard to go wrong, and it’s hard to have too many people upset with you if you’re at least the people you’re serving are not going to be upset with you if you’re focused on on how to best serve the business community. So

Angela Wilson 30:14
yeah, I always say too, you know, I don’t know everything. We don’t know everything, but we know people who do, yeah, and so. And you know, you do want to say no to people sometimes, but I think telling giving them the resources and helping them along, they appreciate that, and they recognize the chamber did help me. You just, you just picked up the phone and called it another person, maybe, but to them, that was a game changer in what they were trying to accomplish. And they really look back about, oh gosh, the Chamber really helped me out. And then they’re going to start showing up to stuff and being there for you and having your back. So it’s just little intentional things, I think, as well being very intentional on the little things, yeah,

Brandon Burton 30:55
absolutely, totally accurate. So I like asking, as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Angela Wilson 31:07
I think chambers even looking back on, good God, I’d hate aging myself, because, you know, I look 20, but I’m getting in the 40s now. But you know, we have evolved over the time that I’ve been in the chamber world, and it’s exciting because it’s something new every day. And I think just being relevant and keeping up with those trends of what businesses need, what communities need, what you guys are, the chambers are the forefront. And so we need to be those leaders, and we need to have that creative mindset of what’s next. And so, I mean, chambers are still going to be around, but we’re different than we looked 10 years ago. We’re different than we look 20 years ago and even 50 years ago, when people just paid their dues because it was the right thing to do. But I think it’s just exciting, because you it’s up to you as a chamber you can do what you want to do, and what your Chamber members want. So it’s kind of exciting that you don’t always have to do the same thing every day or every year. So I think just making sure you’re on that cusp of what’s you know kind of what your members are wanting, and stay ahead of them one step so you can provide those services for them, but chambers are always going to be around. What they look like in 20 years might be completely different. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 32:27
I would argue, even from four years ago, from through COVID to today, chambers look different so well, Angela, this has been a good conversation. I think it’s provided a lot of value for listeners, and I appreciate you getting a little, you know, authentic and raw about an experience at your chamber that I’m sure was full of difficulties and challenges, but being able to rise above and come through on the other side with some lessons learned that are valuable for others that have been listening today. So thank you for sharing that with us.

Angela Wilson 32:58
Thank you for having me, and yeah, there was a lot of wine along the way going through that transition, wasn’t it always

Brandon Burton 33:05
rainbows and butterflies? Yeah, I wanted to give you a chance to share any contact information for listeners who may want to reach out and connect. And say, how’d you get the courage to move forward with this, or whatever it may be, what’s the best way for them to reach out and connect?

Angela Wilson 33:19
Absolutely, please contact me if you have it’s not a dumb question. No questions are dumb. We’re involved contacted peers. That’s what we rely on and how we survive sometimes. But you can visit our website, Muskogee chamber.org, or you can email me at angela@mugicha.org, or if you go onto our website, you’ll find our contact or phone number on there, and yeah, email me, call me, whichever. I’m always open, and that’s one of my favorite parts of my job is helping other chambers.

Brandon Burton 33:53
Yeah, it’s such a great profession for being able to do that. Yes, we’ll, we’ll get the website and email and our show notes for this episode to make it easy to find you. But again, Angela, this has been great, and thank you so much for joining us today and sharing your experiences and insight with with those that are listening.

Angela Wilson 34:10
I appreciate it. Thank you for having me.

Brandon Burton 34:14
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Creating a Chamber of Impact with Matt Lofy

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your hosts Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

Our title sponsor for this episode is Bringing Local Back. Remember when your community could turn to a local TV station or newspaper for the latest updates and affordable ads? Those days may be fading, but the need for local connection remains. That’s why we created Bringing Local Back, a game changing platform that restores the local visibility and advertising power to your community. It’s more than just tech. It’s about driving engagement and creating new revenue for your chamber. Ready to see the future visit bringinglocalback.com to schedule your demo today. This is the future of local commerce.

Our guest for this episode is Matt low fee. Matt is the President, CEO of the Worthington area Chamber. And since joining the Worthington area Chamber in August 2021 he’s been driven by his vision, which is he wants their chamber to serve as a igniter of positive change, rather than merely serving as a resource to cope with change. Matt’s strategic focus on business advocacy, bridge building with key stakeholders and relentless pursuit of relevance has significantly strengthened the Chamber’s influence and engagement with local businesses, amplifying the voice of business, his initiatives led to a 20% increase in local business engagement within the his first year. This impact resulted in him being named as one of the chamber industry’s top emerging leaders, as a 40 under 40 honor honoree by ACCE and a 2023 chamber professional of the Year by the Chamber of Commerce executives of Ohio. Prior to this position at the Chamber, Matt served in numerous roles within the Westerville area Chamber, including executive director of leadership at Westerville he also taught morning spin classes for over a decade, and is a veteran of the United States Coast Guard. In addition to his professional success, Matt finds joy in his roles as a husband and father to his beautiful wife, Heather and their two young children, Tuckerman and Caroline. He’s also the founder and co host of the award winning Dadass Podcast, Matt, I’m excited to have you with us today here on Chamber Chat Podcast, I’d love to give you a moment to say hello to all the Chamber Champions and share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better.

Matt Lofy 2:51
Absolutely. Thank you so much Brandon for this opportunity, and thank you to all the chamber champions who are listening. You know a fun fact I like to share you had mentioned about my my podcast and from one podcast post to another, one of my fun facts is we actually used our podcast platform, not so much to grow beyond just a local podcast, but to actually advocate. So we’ve worked with our Columbus City Council the last two years to advocate to get we’ve now had over 300 changing tables put into men’s and gender neutral restrooms throughout businesses and nonprofits in the city of Columbus, and so as a way to marry my passion project And my chamber career, to really bridge build with a public private partnership. So we’ve been able to do that and advocate for easier access to changing tables. That’s

Brandon Burton 3:48
awesome. I’m convinced that chamber work is like a drug. You just get addicted to it, and then whatever you do in life, it’s going to tie back to the chamber somehow. So that’s proof and point right there.

Matt Lofy 3:58
So absolutely can’t get away from it. I drank the Kool Aid. That’s right,

Brandon Burton 4:02
that’s right. I need to find out where to go to get awards for podcast. I’ve yet to win an award. So congratulations to dadas podcast. That’s pretty cool.

Matt Lofy 4:11
There was a local one here. So really, I think we joke, but we’re pretty serious. It was our mom, my colleague, and my mom and all their older friends who are retired, just voting daily. That’s all it was. So don’t

Brandon Burton 4:24
awesome,

Matt Lofy 4:25
but now we can say winning.

Brandon Burton 4:26
We can edit that out. Nobody has to know. No,

Unknown Speaker 4:29
it’s our secret.

Brandon Burton 4:30
That’s right. But tell us a little bit about the Worthington area Chamber. Give us an idea of your chamber size, staff, budget, scope of work. You guys are involved with just to kind of set the stage for our discussion today.

Matt Lofy 4:42
Yeah, for anyone who’s not familiar with Columbus, imagine a big circle around a major city. We are at the north, north central part of Central Ohio, and Columbus, which we actually get confused. Worthington, Minnesota. When I when I first started, I was told that half of the phone calls in Minnesota, in Worthington, Minnesota, are phone calls for Worthington, Ohio, but we’re a small chamber of commerce of roughly 550 member businesses, a modest budget in the mid 300,000 range, and a staff of two currently putting out roughly 65 to 70 events and organized meetings a year. So we were doing quite a bit for two people in terms of the scope. We went from a chamber that really wasn’t was kind of in a decline prior to COVID to not not being relevant or impacting our community or supporting our businesses during COVID. So really, we’ve done a lot as a two person team to bring back all networks. So from our Soho groups, small office, home office, which we call Small Business Roundtable, to our Women’s Business Network, yp, those all have been started from scratch within the last two to three years. So just to really show where we’ve been and how far we’ve come just in three years, and then we’re in a city that’s four and a half to five miles square, miles in size. Our school districts four times that, because we pulled from the city of Columbus, and so that’s really the taste of our community and our chamber in, you know, 90 seconds or less.

Brandon Burton 6:32
Yeah, no, that’s perfect. So you came into the chamber world at a very interesting time. So I think that’s going to play in well, your story with our topic today about creating a chamber of impact, because I’m sure you’re able to see all of the opportunity around you at that timing of when you came into the chamber here. But we’ll dive in much deeper in that as soon as we get back from this quick break.

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All right, Matt, we’re back. As I mentioned before the break, we’re talking today about creating a chamber of impact. So how did coming into the Worthington area Chamber in August of 21 How did that timing affect your thinking going into creating a chamber of impact and the opportunity that you saw at that time frame?

Matt Lofy 9:07
That’s that’s a great question. We had our challenges, just as a lot of chambers did, because of the impact of COVID. What I had kind of up against me coming into this role is one I left another chamber in a neighboring community, but not in the president role that did everything, I think, right during COVID, coming to a chamber that hadn’t done much to impact the community or the businesses. So I had a different lens to look through, but at the same time, because of where we’re situated in in central Ohio, we pull from Columbus public health. So after my first week, we actually got put into a six month mask mandate. So there were just some extra layers that were added. But how I looked at it, it was because we hadn’t impacted our community and our businesses. I had a four. Whole deck of cards to play with, because no one was going to question and say, well, we didn’t do things this way. No one really remembered that. And so I jokingly say I came in like, I pulled a Miley Cyrus and came in like a record. Oh, yeah, I have to right. All I had to say is, I came in like Miley Cyrus, and you knew it, that’s right. But at that point, it was okay. We have a mask mandate, but we have to be seen. And so I started to really look at ways to how do we amplify the voice of business and our chamber without having events here in the first few days and not having the relationships? And so we use it as a way to completely flip our ineffective emails and getting squared away with three separate monthly email newsletters that went out and specifically targeting different areas of interest for our businesses. Instead of just showing and sending out future events and and things like that. We had to get better and more strategic with the way we reached out. One of the first things I did on social social media was I wanted to be seen and build a relationship when I couldn’t be in person and build relationships. And so with without knowing, at the time of your podcast, I kind of stole your name and created a chamber chat with Matt. Video, okay, bi weekly, where it was just me. I had my own theme music and introduction, and it was me sitting in my office, or even in my my basement office, giving key updates of what the business is doing. We might not be able to meet together right now, but this is what your investment in our chamber, in us is helping us do to impact you, your business and our community. So it really allowed us to take non existent social media and email and flip them upside down and more impactful, as well as start to strategize, you know, unfortunately, six months out what our impact would be when it comes to reigniting our network. So that was really what we did, you know, from day one to the first six months outside of cleaning out the organization and getting the house in order.

Brandon Burton 12:13
Yeah, now I can appreciate coming in and people don’t remember what the programs were before, but to be able to have kind of that almost a blank slate. I mean, you could do essentially what, what you wanted to, but to be able to be strategic about the emails going out. Can you talk to us a little bit more about that? You said, going from those ineffective emails, which I think everybody listening knows exactly what you’re talking about, and what are the what’s the strategy behind your three purposeful emails each month,

Matt Lofy 12:41
yeah, and let me, let me first go on the record, because I always want to say things first. I don’t have the magic formula. So I don’t want anyone to be like, oh, you know, or think that. I think that I have it all figured out. But I think from my previous role doing communications at another chamber to just emails I’ve gotten from other organizations. We get too fixated of we got to throw all this stuff into one email, and then we tend to sometimes get so bogged down about events that all we’re sending our event correspondence. Don’t look at my social media right now, because that’s all I’m doing. But I looked at, let’s get the events out of all of our emails, and let’s look at respecting people’s inboxes. And here’s how we’ve done it. And again, this is just one man one Chamber’s way to do it, but either the final days of a month or the first days of a month, depending on when, when that falls in the week, I send an events bulletin out that just has picture header, brief description and a CLICK HERE button, and we list out five events for the month with a corresponding social media post. We’ve we went from emails that we’re getting in the teens to the low 20s of open rates to mid 40s to low 60s. Open rates, click rates, I won’t talk about because I want to stay with the numbers that make me sound that’s right, that’s right, but open rate wise, and then what we’re seeing on registrations, in terms of revenue, we’re certainly seeing a huge amount of investment of revenue coming in per email specifically for our events bulletin, but then the second week of each month, that’s what I refer to as our member highlight cycle in our business connections email, where we’re putting out things in our Member Notes section, accolades about businesses, businesses who are hosting maybe an upcoming Lunch and Learn, or businesses we’re partnering with, as well as announcing our new businesses. And then somewhere in there a link to our events calendar, because again, I don’t want to bog down everything with give us more money come to more events. And then the third week, I try and put more advocacy efforts in there upcoming major events, but talking about what the takeaways would be at those events. You. So much about the event, and then any other major things that we’re doing impacting, you know, our city or regionally, and that’s been a really good winning formula for us. And hopefully anyone that you know wants to possibly use that, maybe it works for them. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 15:17
and I’d like how you said you still have your events in there, but you’re not drawing all the attention right to the events, but it’s in there. It’s like, oh yeah, I saw an email a week or two ago. It talked about an event. Oh, here it is, right here, and you can click on it, but you’re not focused on, give us money, give us money, right?

Matt Lofy 15:35
And that’s kind of the lens. And you’ve been in the industry for for a long time. I mean, sometimes we get a little too focused on events or revenue, you know, without respecting what we’re putting into people’s inboxes. And I think, you know, I’m a relationship builder. I’m a relational leader. And I think chamber leaders need to start thinking more relational than transactional. And that’s how I also try and view the emails, yeah,

Brandon Burton 16:00
and I think most chamber staff are probably guilty, at least at times where the next event’s coming up, and that’s all you can focus on, is the next event, and just getting bogged down with with that and nothing else, and forgetting that that one event is not the reason why 90 plus percent of your members joined right? Like it’s important for you in that time, because that’s what you’re focused on. But they all are members for so many other reasons, that as you reach out and communicate with them, you gotta be touching on those points as well,

Matt Lofy 16:31
well and and just in a what is the chamber done for me? Aspect, if, if we’re not putting that in the in the in the emails or in the newsletters to the membership they you know, I count that as retention, so, you know, we’re sharing out information, but also saying, Here’s what we’ve done since this last advocacy update, or here’s what we’re doing shortly. You know, there’s, there’s a lot of different things strategically, if we put it in the newsletter, that can go into recruiting new businesses, retaining businesses, beyond just getting butts in seats for another event, right?

Brandon Burton 17:08
Exactly. So the emails, that’s a great example of of making that shift to creating a chamber of impact. What are some other areas that you were able to attack as you came into the chamber there,

Matt Lofy 17:22
one of the things that we needed to do is our our community being as small as it is, like the city, not the school district, again, four and a half, five square miles, we’re so disconnected in a small community that we have a pro and not so pro business nonprofit that has started through the last decade in our community, not called the chamber, Okay, which one I thought was an issue, because we’re not relevant. We weren’t having an impact. That those groups had to start. We should have been convening both sides. But at the same time, if there’s those two groups, no one’s hitting that that 80% in the middle, the same center. So one of the things that I wanted to make sure that we did was get heard, and two of the things I did quickly was try and identify and make those relationships with key stakeholders. And I’m sure that’s not anything new that any chamber person that’s been in the industry for a while has heard, but I probably met with key stakeholders more than I did businesses, just to make sure that we built those bridges, and also we’re being heard of what’s to come from this new chamber and our pursuit of relevance and the impact we wanted, so no one was caught off guard or challenged. And that was the biggest piece, because a lot of what I was saying at that time was deemed political and well, the Chamber’s never done that before. That’s not going to go well. And I go, I assure you, I have surveys and countless of data points that our businesses want this, and chambers are doing this across the industry. This is only new here, and so I kept those voices, those stakeholders, close in that to ensure that they they knew what was coming from our chamber, and now they’ve been on board, even if they are challenging. And I think that really massaging those relationships and building those collaborations, especially with those that aren’t on board with what the chamber is doing, is key. And the other aspect is at the same time, we started a podcast called amplify Worthington that allowed me to use that as a platform to say it even louder to businesses, but also to the community, and then we did it in in a collaboration with our economic development director. So it’s a little bit, possibly a little bit different of approach for a chamber podcast, compared to some who highlight just primarily what the chamber is doing and what businesses are doing, and those. Us to were probably the best investment of time outside of of re kind of retooling our chamber.

Brandon Burton 20:06
I’m a huge fan of chambers having a podcast. I even have a little course. If anybody wants to explore having a podcast for your chamber, it’ll be in our show notes, but going back to your meetings with the key stakeholders you didn’t necessarily say these words, but this is how I heard it. So correct me, if I’m wrong or if there’s a different take, you weren’t going and asking for permission necessarily to say, these are the changes I want, but it was more just so they’re not surprised when they see the changes coming, that they can be on the right side of things and not be like, Whoa, who’s Matt. Think he is coming in here, changing everything, but just saying, Hey, here’s some things that can be impactful for our community. Wanted to bring you in the loop and let you know some things that are coming down the pipeline. Is that, is that kind of accurate, or did I get that off? Yeah, I

Matt Lofy 20:58
You probably even said it better than than what I said. That’s exactly it. I think, as chamber leaders, we also serve as community architects, and the best way to do things smoother is to ensure everyone knows what’s to come, but also to say change in our community at some point, some level, is coming. Let’s control that change and do what’s best for our community. And the only way we can do that is if you join the conversation. And so yeah, 100% I think that that is one of the things we should do, and not ask for that permission, like you said, but just include the voices so that they they feel heard through this transition,

Brandon Burton 21:40
right? I think the worst case is you can come in with a big change and surprise them, and then you’re going to meet, get met with the resistance all the way along, where, if they have a heads up of it, and they feel like they’re in the know, it’s going to go a lot smoother to push along something new. Yeah. So you mentioned, as you came in to the chamber, was kind of on a decline through COVID and everything. You guys have implemented some of these changes. How are you seeing the needle move at this point, now that you’re three years into it?

Matt Lofy 22:10
Yeah, I feel like we have an aircraft carrier moving full steam ahead in the ocean while also going forward on the course, it is altering the course at the same time. So I’m like, I’m just starting my fourth year, and it’s like I’m still having to clean this up. But I think what what we’ve seen greatly is we’ve had a steady flow of new members, and then having to really work extra hard on getting better contacts of those that we want to return retain, just because there’s so much turnover. So we’re still seeing those battles, which I’m sure there’s a lot of people nodding right now listening like, oh, in there. Brother, yeah. But one of the things that we’re seeing is we’re getting a lot more initiatives up and running, and a lot more businesses who have not been engaged are starting to get more engaged and start poking their head out at events or in my inbox. And that’s the most flattering, especially seeing people you know, with all due respect to those leaders before me that said, I haven’t been a part of the chamber in X amount of years, and I’d like to come back. And that’s that’s been a lot of what we’re hearing now. That’s

Brandon Burton 23:23
very rewarding to know that the work you’re doing is being noticed and really making an impact. To be able to not just retain but bring back some of those members that have dropped at some point along the way. So that’s, that’s awesome. I can imagine that those members that hung through COVID and everything too are like, wow, the chamber is like, revitalized, like, they’re really making an impact right now. So I would imagine that first year retention for those, aside from just financial strain through the pandemic, if they could see that impact, that they would hang on.

Matt Lofy 24:00
We’re getting there. I don’t have we didn’t have good enough numbers to know what that retainment level was at the beginning. But yeah, we are starting to hear that. You know what? One of the things to maybe, hopefully not getting too far off your point, one of the things we did with those that dropped and didn’t want to reinvest in our chamber. I still wanted to show value on investment in the chamber and respect and support our Chamber members first. But I worked a little extra hard, and maybe this is political and there’ll be a lot of hate emails or anything that comes through to you or me, I still busted my hump almost as much for non member businesses to see, to show them the value of a vibrant and strong chamber, and I got a lot of return on that. And I don’t mean that ignorantly. I think sometimes, as leaders, we. Too caught up of oh, you’re a non member, or you’re not in, you’re not involved with the Chamber anymore, and we forget them. I’ve tried to work really hard to say, You know what? If maybe it’s a no for them about being a part of the chamber. Let’s talk about how, because at the end of the day, if they come to one event and they find value in the chamber, they found value in me as their chamber President value in our mission, and at the end of the day, we’re chamber leaders, but we also have to think like civic entrepreneurs. We also got that revenue, and so we saw a lot in these first three years, and I’m still seeing now a lot of the networks, like our Women’s Business Network, half of the women coming to these luncheons are non members, but I can almost have enough data points to show this has been one of the best networks to bring in new members and new investors in our chamber by dropping the real significance of how we treat a member versus a non member. Again, wanting to show the value on investment for members, but that’s really been something through this transition to whether they were dropped or they just didn’t see the chamber as relevant, back, you know, a month ago or a couple years ago, that I think, has been one of the biggest things that have led to a success for us, not saying no to supporting them or being involved in the chamber, but asking ourselves as a two person team, How do we get them a part of the chamber or involved with the chamber? And that’s been a huge game changer for us, and we’ve actually gotten positive feedback. Hey, thanks for not being pushy and really wanting to help me first, and now it helped me see what the chamber really means.

Brandon Burton 26:36
Yeah, I think that’s an excellent point. And I think we forget as chambers, we think, you know membership, membership. You know everybody’s got to be a member. And we forget that each business has its own different walk of life, so to speak, where some businesses and maybe against their corporate policy to join a local chamber because they had a bad experience in another community, another state, whatever. So as a policy, they can’t join a chamber, but if you have an event that resonates with their mission, then they’ll sign up and they’ll be a sponsor. They’ll they’ll be there for it. So being able to be there for all the businesses in the community and to show value to the community at large, rather than just being hyper focused on membership, I think is a very smart approach,

Matt Lofy 27:25
yeah. And I know, you know, I can hear the comments and the emails coming in that disagree with that approach. And if not those emails coming to me, they’re coming to you, right? But I think in a day and age to you know, let’s, let’s see the reality. All membership organizations are seeing declines, right from veterans groups to other membership organizations are seeing declines in membership we as chambers, if we want to have a great impact, we need to also switch our mindset. But at the same time, I can think right off the top of my head, five different businesses who’ve come to our events paid a non member price. But if I tallied up how many times I’ve seen them at paid events this year, they’ve done more than their share of an investment in an annual membership and a one time or two time lunch that most of those who are members coming to one or two events have invested so, you know, getting away from mission and thinking about, you know, being a civic entrepreneur, in a sense, having that hat on. I still got that money, yeah, and they got to see the value in the chamber. So I think we got to shift that mindset too. Sorry if I got too far off.

Brandon Burton 28:34
No, it’s all about being community architects, as you said before. So, yeah, I love it. Love the thought process there. Matt, I wanted to ask for chambers listening that are wanting to take their chamber up to the next level. I’d argue that you’ve done that there at the Worthington area Chamber. What kind of tip or action item, what piece of advice might you share with with that chamber who’s looking to take their organization up to the next level.

Matt Lofy 29:07
You know, I think it’s kind of a, I have one answer, kind of a two part response to that. I think, in order to really continue to grow your chamber, and we’re still doing this ourselves, so I don’t want to sound like I have it all figured out, but we have to take chances in doing something that we’ve never done. And if you’re a chamber that is doing things differently than how they’ve been done, what’s that next thing for us to be doing and and to that end, for me right now is we’ve kind of gotten things back our way. I think for us, being here in central Ohio, which is a growing community, is I’m also having a mindset now that’s a little new for me. I want to think regionally to better impact locally. So I really challenge. A two part answer there. Think about what’s that next thing that your chamber needs to do? And just like I said earlier, Channel your inner Miley Cyrus and do it as a wreck, be a wrecking ball. And then secondly, let’s start thinking a little bit more regionally and bring that home locally for that change to really spark that positive change. Yeah, I

Brandon Burton 30:21
like that a lot. I like asking everyone I have on the show about the future of chambers, and how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Matt Lofy 30:34
You know, that is the million dollar question. If I had it figured out, I would be probably living on an island right now, and not in a two person office, but I think for chambers, we have to adapt to what’s to come. That’s why I’m excited about the horizon initiative being updated. I think chambers need to stop thinking so small in some ways, or at least for the smaller chambers, and start thinking a little bit more broadly in what our impact is. Where are we serving and where are we not serving? What chances and opportunities do we need to take? But on on top of that, I think the future of chambers lie in being that that connector for all voices to cut through the noise and be that trusted source that we need to be, and hopefully we’re all serving right now, so that we can hit that same center, that 80% that’s not in the know, or that is voiceless or just isn’t aware right now. And that’s that’s where I think the future lies, right there in the that, that same center. And we have to address that, and we need to address it yesterday, absolutely.

Brandon Burton 31:47
And if you knew all the answers, you could write the horizon 2.0 all by yourself. But this is right, yeah,

Matt Lofy 31:57
absolutely. And again, we don’t have it all figured out. I just want to say that one more time, but some of the risks we’ve taken and some of the initiatives we’ve done have definitely helped us do more than what I thought we could do possible in three years. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 32:12
absolutely. Well, Matt, before I let you go, I wanted to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for listeners who may want to reach out and connect with you and learn more about how you guys are doing things there at the Worthington area Chamber. What would be the best way for someone to reach out and connect? Thank

Matt Lofy 32:29
you for that opportunity. I’d love to connect, especially on LinkedIn. I’m huge on LinkedIn. You can just find me at Matt. Matt low fee, l, o, F, y, on LinkedIn, or you can email me at mlofy@worthingtonchamber.org and you can just find more about us at WorthingtonChamber.org I’d love to connect in any way that’s perfect.

Brandon Burton 32:53
And we’ll get all that in our show notes for this episode as well, to make it easy to find you and connect with you. But Matt, this is this has been fun to to have you on Chamber Chat Podcast to share your story and the the impact that your chamber making now in the community, and kudos to you and in in your your two person team for being able to to do this. I know there’s others involved, there’s there’s volunteers, and there’s board and all that, but you guys are doing things right to be able to right the ship and turn in the right direction. So thanks for sharing that with us today.

Matt Lofy 33:29
Thank you, and thank you for this opportunity. I certainly appreciate it’s been an honor.

Brandon Burton 33:33
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This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your hosts Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

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Our guest for this episode is Derek, rusher from the Kearney Area Chamber in Nebraska as president and CEO of Nebraska’s third largest chamber, Derek carries a fun and creative energy with him as he walks through the doors of the office each day. He believes in bringing about positive change and by fostering a can do attitude in those around him, and is proud to serve and promote the quality of life in their community. Derek maintains a strong commitment to leadership and public visibility, recognizing that both are essential to grow and sustain the mission of the chamber. He actively works to expand the Chamber’s reach with his hands on leadership style and innovative troubleshooting. This can be seen through how he relates to various organizations, through his interactions with the chamber, with Chamber members, individuals from the Kearney community chambers around the state to oversee their own day to day operations. Derek also serves as a chair for the State Chambers small business policy council, and an ex officio board member for the Nebraska Chamber of Commerce and Industry. Outside of the chamber, Derek is the founder and president of a nonprofit business impact art. Impact art is known for a variety of large murals in the Kearney community. He is subdivision threes representative on the board of directors for the Nebraska public power district. He possesses more than 15 years of experience as a teacher and many more former collegiate athlete and coach. Altogether, Derek is passionate about supporting the growth and education of others. His favorite motto is, do right. His attendant he picked up from his father. He lives with a beautiful wife, Maggie, and Derek continues to pass his teaching on to his five daughters. But Derek, I’m excited to have you with us today here on chamber chat podcast. I’d love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the chamber champions that are out there listening, and to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better.

Derek Rusher 3:08
Yeah, absolutely. Well, well, thank you, Brandon, it’s definitely blessed to be on your podcast. Excited to talk with you today and talk with the listeners, and I love the chamber world, I think, you know, going back to my bio, when you’re reading, you know, I was a, I was an art teacher for 15 years, and I was a former collegiate athlete, and there was not a lot of athletes that were art majors. And so that was pretty unique in itself. But I remember when I was was probably first hired back in January of 2018 and I’m sure a lot of our Chamber members and past leaders and current leaders were reading my bio. They’re like, what are we doing? We’re hiring a, you know, art teacher to lead our chamber. And so, you know, I was, yes, an art teacher, but obviously, you know, athletics had taught me a lot of leadership skills. I went through our local leadership class here in Kearney. And, you know, I started building my business at QM, actually through impact art, which was part of that, I was actually working part time for a company called Team concepts, where we where we will, do we, we did a lot of employee engagement, leadership development, some school programs, just team building in general. And so my background was actually pretty diverse, and I was always one to, you know, make sure I was, you know, stayed involved in continuing my own education. I was getting my master’s in administration, so I was building, you know, kind of my more professional development there and personal development. So yeah, in the day, if you just maybe saw art teacher, you would have been like, oh, man, what are we doing? But yeah, I got the, I think one of the things. That is a strength of mine, is my diversity that I that I brought to the chamber and also art. It’s that creative mindset, and I think that’s one thing that I brought to the chamber too, is kind of my creativity as a leader.

Brandon Burton 5:12
Yeah, I think there’s definite parallels without the creativeness that comes from art into the chamber world. And I don’t know why that needs to be a it seems to be a sticking point for people, and they’re like art like they don’t see it as a real major or anything or real career, but it is. People do, people do art, people teach art, people make a living with art, and it definitely brings that creative mindset.

Derek Rusher 5:34
No doubt I could, I could probably have a whole podcast on why the arts are great for kids and students and, you know, proven, there’s, there’s actually a lot of stats out there that prove that your test scores are better when you’re involved in the arts. So not just, you know, painting or drawing. I mean, it could be music, any kind of performance art as well. So, yeah, yeah.

Brandon Burton 5:54
So I’m curious, what type of athlete were you? What sports did you play?

Derek Rusher 5:58
I played them all growing up, anything that I could, you know, swing a bat, throw a football, shoot, shoot a basketball. I did get into golf later on in life, but, yeah, so I went to college to play football, and I was a quarterback, and then transitioned into wide receiver. I did. I dabbled in a little bit of high jump, actually, on the track team, but I went through a core workout for track, and I was like, holy cow, I’m here to play football. This isn’t too much setups and crunches and everything else. And so I went back to throwing the football during spring. Yeah, but no, it’s a great experience, and great teammates, and just the long life relationships that I have from my college teammates. You know, that’s, it’s pretty awesome. That’s

Brandon Burton 6:44
awesome, fantastic. Well, tell us a little bit about, I think I pronounced it wrong earlier, Carney area, chamber, yep. All right. All right, yeah. Tell us about the the chamber, size, staff, budget, scope of work to kind of set the table for our discussion. Yeah,

Derek Rusher 6:58
absolutely. So Carney is pretty much smack dab in the middle of the United States. So Kearney, Nebraska is right on Interstate 80. We’re positioned really well being on the interstate. I think that’s one of the advantages we actually have over our peers. But so Kearney is about 33,000 people, and our county is about 55,000 we have members from all over, but mainly, obviously in the Kearney area and then Buffalo County. Our chamber size is about 870 members. We usually hover right around that number. We’re we’re about a million dollar budget pushing that. I think one of the things that’s exciting is how we’ve grown as a staff and a team. And I think when I first started, we were about five staff. Now we’re going into six. I like big teams. If my budget could afford it, I’d have even more teammates. But for Nebraska, you’ve got the Greater Omaha chamber, the Lincoln Chamber of Commerce, and then the Carney chambers, is the third largest chamber in the state of Nebraska. And so, yeah, we’re two hours west of Lincoln. If you’ve ever driven down I 80 and driven under an archway, we’ve got an archway monument that crosses over the interstate there, and so that’s that’s Carney right there. Alright,

Brandon Burton 8:28
fantastic. Well, I will be focusing our the majority of our conversation today around the topic of finding success through involvement and what that’s meant for you throughout your career, and we’ll dive deeper into that as soon as we get back from this quick break.

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All right, Derek, we’re back, and as I mentioned before the break, we’ll we’re going to focus our conversation around finding success through involvement. So you’re coming with this art background, you found ways to get involved, to transition that into a chamber career, but talk to us a little bit about that, that story, that transition, but how involvement has really helped to catapult your career in the chamber world.

Derek Rusher 10:52
Yeah, I think what I found is, you know, I’m a people person, and I always wanted to be around other people and then let lend a hand, whether it was through, you know, an artistic skill or whatnot. But at the end of the day, I just felt that, you know, I was always driven towards to be on a committee or be on a board or help out, however I could, whether it’s through our church and serving, or what it might be. So when I was actually teaching at the facility that I was teaching at my my last stop in my education career was actually at a juvenile detention center, and we had an accredited high school there, but I got involved in about everything that I could at that facility, Teaching these juveniles of Nebraska, and we built a confidence course, basically an obstacle course. We did landscaping with my students there, and then I would get involved in our gang team. And so we had a lot of kids that got caught up in gangs and so. And then I eventually led our gang team. I was on employed development groups. I was part of our teachers association out there, and so I just continued to get involved. And people saw, you know me as a as a leader there, like, like I said in my intro, I started our facility administrator asked me if I wanted to go through our leadership Carney, our local leadership group. And I was like, yeah, absolutely. So I did that, and continue to just find ways to get involved. And then I started kind of learning more about the extra the Chamber of Commerce, not knowing the job was even open, and at that time it wasn’t. But I had a friend that was on the board of directors, and so it would attend some ribbon cuttings, and just started continuing to build my network. And again, it was just making sure I was, you know, being involved in different things. A funny story, my my art classroom had a a lot of murals. We were actually in a shop, and a somebody from leadership Carney had toured my classroom because they knew I was alumni, and so they’re like, Hey, can we come tour the facility and come tour your classroom? I said, Yeah, absolutely. So as that person from the city of Kearney was walking through my classroom, they’re like, Hey, we were looking for a muralist, and I was pretty naive at the time, and they’re like, Hey, would you like to paint a mural? And I said, Absolutely. So I had a good friend that I said, Hey, do you want to? Do you want to help me do this? And his sister was actually an art major at the time, and so we tackled a mural, and that was our first mural, and we were not impact art at that time. And then after that mural, the VFW asked, Hey, we want to paint a flag on the front of our building? Who did that mural? So they put us in contact. And then Coca Cola was delivering beverages to the VFW, and they need a mural restored. And so we started that. So at that point, I’m like, Okay, this is a business. I need to get a business plan. So I wrote a business plan, and went through that whole process. And again, I started building my business at you, that board member that I talked about being on the chamber, him, and I hit it off. We had some different things that we shared, and one of them was the Clifton Strengths Finder, and he was a Gallup certified coach, and I just love leadership development. And so we started working together, and he hired me to work part time as a teacher to do different, you know, workshops with him, team building, employee development, employee engagement, leadership, and I still take a lot of those things today, and definitely helped me. And so all those things kind of catapulted me into this position. And the board member said, hey, when that, when this job opened up for the chamber. He said, Hey, I think you should apply. But he’s my friend, right, right? So I was like, okay, you know, thank you. But I actually had two emails that got in my inbox, and they were from just my network. I did not know the two people that well, but basically the gist of their emails were the same, yeah. Hey, this job’s open. I think you’d be really good in this position. You should apply. And that’s what really put me over the edge. And when I do things Brandon, I go all in. And so, you know, I did what I did, and now I’m here, so six and a half years later, I love it. And when I first joined the chamber, we had accreditation due for the US Chamber. That was a big thing for our chamber. It was the first year. I remember my board members said, Well, we’ve been four star. Probably can’t get to five star because of our size and different things. And I said, challenge accepted, right? And we were fortunate enough to get to a five star accreditation. So that was the first time in our Chamber’s history to be a five star chamber. That was a great learning experience for me. You know, I did not come from the chamber world and kind of that non profit sector, and so it was a great learning experience. But, you know, that’s just what I wanted to show, kind of our our chamber and our business community, to say, hey, here’s here’s how we’re going to operate, and we’re going to operate with excellence and and like I said, it kind of the rest is a little bit history. And what I love about my involvement and how I found success through that, that’s obviously one of our Chamber’s pillars, right? Is involvement and making connections and and networking. And then how can we help as a chamber, do that with others, and so I found success that way. Now I’m able to help our Chamber members find success as well through involvement. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 16:30
and you’ve been involved with with boards as well, that the it’s the State Chamber and the public power district. And how are some of these things that impacted your career and be able to help you, whether it’s connections or leadership skills or whatever that you’ve taken out of these experiences that have helped you be successful and really a relatively short time in the chamber world.

Derek Rusher 16:56
Yeah, it’s a great question. I would say that right before I was with the chamber, I got asked to be on our Junior Achievement board. And they do financial literacy with kids. And when I went through leadership, Carney, I had a one of the speakers. I’ll never forget, he told us, don’t be on a board just because someone asks you if you need to be passionate about that board was basically his, his talk to us, and so you’re going to get asked as leaders to be on boards, right? Everybody. A lot of nonprofits need boards and things like that. A lot of organizations need board members, but they said, make sure you’re passionate about it. And so that with that tie to education and working with kids, I was like, Yep, I think that’s a good board. Well, since I got on the chamber, as you can imagine, chamber presidents get asked to be on a lot of boards, and so right away I was like, oh man. And so I actually had to kind of sift through some of them and tell some of them no. And I served on one for one year, and then I told the director. I said, Hey, I said, I actually have a I actually have a chamber employee that’s way more passionate about this, and they would be a better fit. And so we did that transition. And I think it’s just knowing that you don’t have to do everything as a chamber president, right, as a chamber executive and and make sure you’re passionate about it, make sure it’s, you know, something, that you can add value as a board member too. Now going through boards, you know, you learn a lot of things, and I think probably the biggest step I made in my career was the decision to be an elected official, and that’s through our public power. So Nebraska has public power, so I was asked to be a representative on the board of directors for Nebraska public power district. I had a campaign talk about learning a lot about campaigning and politics there and all the things that go along with it. Obviously, there was a lot of parts that I liked about campaigning. There was a lot of stuff that I did not like, and it’s just some of it’s ugly, but in the day, going through that process was a big learning experience, and something that I definitely do not regret, and I’ve been on that board since it’s about about 20 months now. And what a fascinating business, because it’s, you know, power, the the energy industry is probably the most capital intensive industry there is, and so the sticker shock was a little crazy, right at first, because we’re dealing with millions and billions, and I’m not used to that as a chamber of commerce, right? And a little impact art business as a nonprofit

Brandon Burton 19:33
guy over here, yeah, yeah, I remember

Derek Rusher 19:38
one of my first meetings, they were saying, we’re going to refurbish this piece of equipment, and it was like 900 some $1,000 and I’m like, wow. I’m like, Well, what’s a new one cost? And they’re like, 5 million. I’m like, okay, refurbish. It is. And, you know, as as as I want to be the best BOARD MEMBER I can be, you know, and that preparation, I’ve found a way to. Uh, you know, get through all of the board packets and all information and just educate myself. And it’s been wonderful. And then the board meetings itself and how they prepare, and just their organization. It’s such a robust organization. I’ve taken some things that they’ve done and tried to right fit them for our little chamber of commerce. And so it’s definitely added value there. And again, I think having a business representative on that board, having a, you know, somebody that’s tied in and has a pulse in the business community, I think it’s really added value that way, as well, on that board of directors. And so it’s been a great experience. It’s a six year term, so I would love to stay on that board for probably two terms. I think that’s probably the right amount, but it takes a long time. I mean, talk about drinking from the fire hose when I started the chamber, yeah, mppd was nothing like that. I mean, it was just, it was like three fire hoses. It’s crazy to learn all the ins and outs of that, but I would say my advice for I think the chamber executives that are listening would be be on a board, not just because you got asked, make sure you’re passionate about it, make sure that you’re able to add value and then take something away as well. We should always continue to learn. I’m a lifelong learner. I believe in that. That’s my education background. That’s why I got my administration, education Education Administration degree. I got my master’s when I was still here at the Chamber of Commerce. Because there was a multiple reasons. I started it, I wanted to finish it. There was a lot of things that overlapped. I mean, every single Master’s class I had talked about communication. And so there’s a lot of great things that I learned through my master’s classes. And I also want to show my kids, you know, I got five daughters. I want to show my kids. My kids that, hey, education is important, and it still is. Yeah, I

Brandon Burton 21:47
especially like your your thoughts about board service and to only serve on boards you’re passionate about. And for any chamber executives listening they they know the headaches of working with a board member who’s not passionate about the chamber, or, you know what they’re supposed to be there, showing up for and executing on, you know, plans of action and things like that. And if you’re not able to show up and give your best self, it’s okay to say no, it’s okay to delegate to somebody else. It’s okay to pass up an opportunity if it doesn’t align with, you know, the mission that you’re, you know, being driven by, in this case, with the chamber, or personal values even, but it’s okay, and I think that organization would appreciate no thank you versus a Okay, I’ll do it on top of my already busy plate, and I’m not really going to give it all the time and effort and Energy it deserves, right,

Derek Rusher 22:41
right? Well, I think that’s part of my reason to be on the small business policy council, because I know it adds value to our Carney businesses. And so at the state level, we have a representative, and I’m actually pregnant is only serve one more year there. I’ve talked to the State Chamber, and I’m going to serve one more year because of just timing of things. And I’m ready to, you know, hand over the reins of someone else. You know, there’s someone else that definitely has earned that spot to be the chair of that business council, but I think that’s that at the end of the day, yeah, just be passionate about the boards that you’re serving on and making sure you can add value for sure.

Brandon Burton 23:15
So in this involvement with these different organizations, different boards, nonprofits, these different ways you’ve you’ve been involved, you’ve been intentional about being involved. Can talk to us a little bit about how your network has been affected, and kind of rubbing shoulders with people in these groups, and just how that’s impacted you. Well,

Derek Rusher 23:35
my kids don’t like to go in public places with me. You know, I didn’t do it really, to, like, selfishly, honestly. I mean, I did it because I truly, I think I love serving, I love what I do, and that’s why I ran for the Nebraska public power district board. Yeah, I didn’t understand everything in the industry, but I just felt like pulled to serve, and so that’s really has been my intent. Now, what it’s done, obviously, is my connections and network has grown tremendously, and I don’t know everything. And so now I have a phone with friend, but I’ve got a lot of friends that I can call on or email and contact and say, Hey, have you guys ever dealt with this, right? And, yeah, there’s forums out there, you know, there’s Facebook groups out there that you can, you know, put a put something out there and get some responses. But when you have a closer relationship, right? And you’ve maybe served together or been on a committee together, you know, that’s a lot easier to get a response from. And so when I can pick up the phone or shoot an email over to somebody or text them, that’s what it’s really done. Because, again, I don’t know everything, and I don’t claim to know everything, and I’m I’m always one that’s always saying, Hey, you. What I like this idea, but let’s see what this chamber is doing, or let’s see what this business is doing, and how can we operationally be better? Because that’s me. I’m I’m in, I’m competitive, and I want to be the best, and so maybe that’s a little bit of my servant leadership, I suppose, and why I want to be on different boards and committees and be involved. But I’ve also, I like leading. I like, you know, being at the front and leading. And I’m a very visionary guy. I’ve got big ideas. I like to move fast. And I know my cons of my leadership too. I know what I’m, you know, moving fast is not good for all my teammates, so I have to slow down. And I don’t I remember, when I first started the chamber, I would present a bunch of ideas, and I’ve learned to present one. Hey, here’s something I think we can focus on, because I’ve got leaders that are very supportive leaders, right? And they’re, they’re the ones that are great at getting all the details and all those things. Well, if I present all these ideas, my other leaders and my on my team are going to be like all the work. They don’t see that. And I’m just, I’ve got all this, you know, this big picture stuff. And so I think it’s, I think it’s wise of me to understand the pros of my leadership and my strengths, but then the cons, right? And maybe what I’m not good at, right? We’re all Swiss cheese, right? We all holes. And I’ve got a great team right now that fills the holes of my leadership and my strengths and what I need to improve, or my weaknesses for lack of better words. And that’s where we are, and we really focus on that. We focus on our strengths as a team, and I’ll continue to do that with any committee I’m on and and knowing people that way. And it’s definitely I found success that way.

Brandon Burton 26:45
I can really appreciate you kind of bridling your your creativity, your ideas, and being able to instead of taking the list of 10 or 15 ideas to say, here’s one for your team, and really as a leader, that’s going to drive your team to be creative and to be leaders as well. Because introducing one idea at a time, they might catch the vision and say, what if we add this too? And it may be something you had on your list of ideas, but letting them drive that helps to build them up as well, which I think is super important,

Derek Rusher 27:18
and that’s the chamber world we’re in right now, right? I think we need to be creative and innovative.

Brandon Burton 27:24
Absolutely. Derek, as we start to wrap things up, I wanted to ask for chambers listening who are wanting to take their chamber up to the next level. What kind of tip or action item might you share with them and trying to accomplish that goal?

Derek Rusher 27:39
This is a great question. Um, obviously very subjective, but I would hope that all Chamber members just love their current members. One thing I learned right off the bat, I had this lofty goal, right? I’m competitive. I wanted to grow our membership, and so I had a membership growth goal, and then I had a retention goal as well. And then I would say, shortly, and probably less than a month, I squashed the growth goal, and I said, You know what? If, if they don’t want to be Chamber members, whatever, I’m going to spend way less time on recruiting, basically, and I’m going to spend time on retention, and I’m going to love the members that are investing in our chamber now, and we will grow organically, because I believe everyone wants to be part of something great. And so if we can be great and we can show that we are adding value, then we’ll grow, and we have slightly right? There’s the ebbs and flows, as you know, the members come and go, and we feel that in Kearney as well. But, you know, just loving your members. And then I would say the other part of that is, I kind of reference it is being innovative. I mean, AI is you need to embrace it as a Chamber of Commerce. My marketing director, Riley Mills, is phenomenal in social media and AI and all those things, right? And I just love the things he’s doing. We’ve got some really neat, innovative things with making like tiktoks and reels, and he would explain it way better than I but he’s making custom songs for businesses using AI, and it’s awesome, so cool. It’s so cool. And so, you know, there’s a lot to it. I know you can, you know, you got your your recording meetings and all those things. And obviously, I think everybody’s using, you know, chat, GPT and things like that. But you need to embrace, I think, AI. But then also, what else is out there, right? It’s not just AI. We can’t drive our chamber with AI. And how can you continue to be authentic but innovative? And what is next? How can we kind of stay above that business community and see what they’re doing, what trends they have? And I think that’s going to be important for us. And one of the ways that we’re doing it, besides just looking at trends and trying to. Stay up to date on technology is we’ve actually decided to look at our facility, and we sold our building about a year ago, and we’re building a new building, and it’s a major investment, and we ran a capital campaign, and it’s taken a lot of work, but our new building is going to be a collaborative environment for our team. It’s going to allow our Chamber members to come in and work, maybe not quite have a straight incubator space, but there’s space for them to come and work. So we have small businesses, obviously, freelance and that work from home. We didn’t embrace that sector. How do we help the business that’s selling shoes on YouTube and making more money than all of us? Right? How do we help that chamber member now? Right? And then we’ll have a media room where you can do a podcast, you can do video, you can do photo. There’s flexible spaces where you can hold meetings or interviews and things like that. And so that’s kind of our strategic plan is looking at, how can we continue to add more value to our Chamber members through even a facility? And I think we’re super excited. We’re about 30 days away from moving in.

Brandon Burton 31:01
That’s awesome. I can feel the excitement. Well, I like asking everyone I have on the show, as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Derek Rusher 31:14
I think it’s I think it’s relational. I think it’s really having close relationships with your Chamber members, the the adage that I’ve seen in our industry of businesses joining chambers because it’s the right thing to do, yeah, that’s starting to go away, right? And I still think though that, because still

Brandon Burton 31:36
the right thing to do, but Yeah, correct. Yeah, 100%

Derek Rusher 31:40
but now it’s like, well, what do I get, right? I’m going to invest in in the chamber. Well, what do I get? And how can we continue to add value? So we always look at, what other benefits can we give? And obviously, every industry is a little different, right? Banks need something different than insurance agents and so on and so forth. And so I would say that I see chambers going just more like on a relational and so building relationships and finding opportunities to, you know, have those opportunities where you can just continue to get to know your Chamber members, not on just a Hey, thanks for paying. And here’s your invoice and just a transactional relationship I’d call you need, I think then intimate relationship is going to be a healthy way to run a chamber. And then how can I knowing that chamber member better, you’re going to be able to help them better, because our answer is always yes. That’s our motto, right? That’s a chamber. How could can you do this? Yep, and then we figure it out. And so whether it’s marketing or education or advocacy or involvement. We’re going to tackle those things for those Chamber members. But you need to know them, right? And you need to get to know I mean, just be like your family, right? And that’s, that’s what we call it. We call it our chamber family. And if you know your family members well enough, then you can help them when things are good, when things are bad, whatever it is, and that’s what we need to do for our chamber. And so that’s that’s a tough task that is not easy, but I think that’s really where chambers can hopefully thrive in the future, is continue to build those relationships that you have. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 33:16
I think that’s key. Well, Derek, this has been great to have you on chamber chat podcast and share your your story, your experience, how being involved has helped lead to the success you’ve seen in the chamber. Or listeners who may want to reach out and connect with you or learn more about how you guys are doing things there in Carney. What would be the best way for someone to reach out and connect with you?

Derek Rusher 33:38
Yeah, I would say our website, obviously, is a stand, you know, a standard there, so kearneycoc.org, but then our Facebook, I think, is probably still our go to on social media. Yeah, we’re on, we’re on all the channels, but seems like our social media for Facebook is probably the go to there, but feel free to reach out. Even via email. You can find my email pretty easy on our website when you go to our team page. But we’ve got a lot of things going on. And you know what I love about the chamber world is you’ve got the old saying of R&D, rip off and duplicate. And so, you know, we’re looking at other chambers around the around the United States and seeing what they’re doing well, and we’re going to see if we can duplicate that and right fit it in Kearney, and that’s what we do. So yeah, I definitely welcome that for others.

Brandon Burton 34:29
That’s awesome, and we’ll get all that in our show notes for this episode as well, to make it easy to find you and easy to connect. But Derek, this has been great. I appreciate you and appreciate the experience you shared with us today. Thanks a lot. Well,

Derek Rusher 34:43
thank you. Brandon, appreciate you.

Brandon Burton 34:46
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