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Category: Membership

Chamber Tech Innovations with Christopher Patton

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Brandon Burton (00:00.876)
Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat podcast. I’m your host, Brandon Burton, and it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community. Joining us today is a tech industry veteran turned chamber innovator, Chris Patton. With over a decade of executive experience in the tech world, Chris has scaled companies through major growth and multiple mergers and acquisitions.

But it was opening a kid strong franchise and joining his local chamber that sparked a whole new passion, which is transforming the way chambers connect with their members. saw firsthand how chambers were lacking modern user friendly tech that delivered real value to their members. That insight led him to found Chaymber, that’s C-H-A-Y-M-B-E-R, a company dedicated to building an elegant, intuitive app that helps chambers

It helps chamber members do what they came to do, network, build relationships and grow their businesses without the clunky watered down CRM experience. Now laser focused on innovation in the chamber space. Chris is on a mission to make member engagement seamless, effective, and actually enjoyable. Chris, I’m excited to have you with us today here on Chamber Chat podcast. I’d love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the chamber champions who are out there listening. And if you would.

share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you little better.

Christopher Patton (01:30.394)
Yeah, I’m grateful for the opportunity. I was glad we got to connect recently and learn more about each other. You know, being somebody newer to the chamber industry, right? It’s always nice to have new connections. That’s what it’s all about. As far as something interesting, you know, it’s always subjective, right? I’d say the most exciting thing in my life right now is that I have what will soon be an eight month old daughter, Juniper.

So as you can imagine, she is really the focus and highlight of everything I’ve got going on.

Brandon Burton (02:03.693)
What a fun stage too. Just starting to wake up and experience the world. So that’s very cool.

Christopher Patton (02:09.572)
waking up, waking up at all hours, for sure. Yeah.

Brandon Burton (02:12.353)
That’s right. Just waking up in general. Very good. Well, usually at this point, I have the guest tell about their chamber or their organization just to kind of give a little background and kind of set the stage for a conversation today. So maybe just take us through high level what chamber is all about, what it is, and then we’ll dive into the details a little bit later.

Christopher Patton (02:36.484)
Yeah, yeah. So we do two main things. We provide Chambers of Commerce, a new medium to be able to interact and engage with their members through this mobile branded experience with push notifications and more. And then we provide their members a tool to actually be able to engage and network with each other. So those are the two main things. We certainly have a whole bunch more features within the application and system and a whole lot more in our roadmap coming.

But you know, I always like to say that, you know, this is a platform that’s built by a chamber member for chamber members, right? So really trying to take that member experience that I know so well and my technology background and connecting the two.

Brandon Burton (03:21.291)
Yeah, now that’s great. I love it when somebody comes into it from the perspective of seeing the issue themself and then creating the solution to the problem that they’ve seen. So it tends to add a lot more value and insight to the product as it comes out. Well, today we’re gonna dive in on a topic of how chambers tend to facilitate through using their CRM to connect with members to.

just manage the organization at large, the reasons why people join Chambers to begin with, and seeing how Chamber, your app, can be a solution to some of these issues and struggles that we see on a regular basis. So we’ll dive into that as soon as we get back from this quick break.

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All right, Chris, we’re back. So as I mentioned before the break, we’re talking today about how Chambers tend to rely maybe a little too heavily on their CRM to manage the organization. And don’t get me wrong, CRMs are great. I don’t know how chambers would function without them. But share with us from your perspective, what do you mean when you see chambers relying too heavily on CRMs?

Christopher Patton (04:28.476)
So.

Christopher Patton (04:36.006)
Sure, I think what I’ve learned, well, maybe I’ll share this tidbit. Every single sales demo call I do, feels like it turns into this therapy session about their CRM, right? And I appreciate that we’ve established that good of a relationship, kind of from the get go with lot of these folks, but it’sโ€ฆ

It’s a necessary evil for lack of a choice. I use a CRM for my business. It’s part of how we do business nowadays. sometimes they kind of get sold the bill of goods as far as like it’s the panacea that will do everything for them. And what I’ve come to learn being in the tech industry for a while is if you have a tech product that’s trying to do everything for everyone, they’re delivering to no one.

Brandon Burton (05:07.063)
Sure.

Christopher Patton (05:28.636)
because there’s really a lack of product vision. And I feel like that’s what we have, Is really focused product vision. So when I talk to these shamers about their CRM doing everything, right? Whether it’s the events, the billing, the emails, right? A lot of the times they’ve got all these things in the systems, but they are just super clunky. They’re not intuitive for them to use.

It scares them off more than anything, to where it’s possible that their CRM does some things that maybe we do, but it is so tough for them to navigate that they start looking elsewhere. With that being said, I know we’ve got features that their CRM does not do for sure, but I think that’s how I’d explain it is they’re under the impression the CRM will do everything for them, but it’s almost like information overload and

It’s really tough to navigate. It makes it hard.

Brandon Burton (06:30.894)
And I think, you know, bottom line is that a CRM can be great when, when it does do what you want it to do, when you can plug in with the calendar and you can, you know, have everything recorded in a CRM. There’s a ton of value to be able to go back to that and see what are all the touch points with their customers, with our chamber members. But the reality is when it becomes too difficult to use and they don’t use it and they start looking for other solutions that maybe don’t communicate with their CRM, that

end up being its own clunky system in its own by trying to kind of patchwork different things together. So having somebody like you who’s bringing something from the perspective, as we’ve talked about, where you’ve seen where these struggles, where these disconnects are, and with their tech background, to be able to find a solution that actually works. I think there’s so much value to that. Yeah.

Christopher Patton (07:27.554)
Ditto.

Brandon Burton (07:29.814)
I love the therapy session too, about CRMs. Because there’s so much good in them, but it’s like some of these things get added in almost as an afterthought of, yeah, we can do that too, but it’s not being done really well. It’s just in there because they can. But being able to maximize how these different tools work together is where you really get the key impact.

Christopher Patton (07:51.686)
Yeah. Hey, could I share another anecdote about the therapy session real quick? So I use AI note taker for all my calls so long as the person’s okay with me using it, which is pretty normal to have on our calls nowadays. And I always take my transcripts and I think you and I talked a little bit about this where I’ve got my AI business advisor, right? And I upload my transcripts for what I did for the day as well as everything else.

Brandon Burton (07:56.077)
Yeah.

Brandon Burton (08:14.062)
Yep.

Christopher Patton (08:18.344)
A tool I’d recommend for everyone is create your own AI board of directors or some version of that. My business advisor at this point, man, they get it. like, this CRM is really causing these people, it’s happened again. Even my AI business advisor knows and they get it now.

Brandon Burton (08:35.073)
Yeah.

Brandon Burton (08:39.426)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We did talk about that. Having that, that AI board of directors and, and we’re not talking about, you know, the board of directors of the chamber, but people that you value their input, their insights where you can take issues and, and really just have their, virtual essence, you know, give you some positive feedback and help guide you. So great, great advice. so Chris, I know you’ve looked into the reasons why people join a chamber, why businesses join the chamber.

Christopher Patton (08:49.222)
Correct.

Brandon Burton (09:09.27)
to begin with. mean, you’re a business owner with Kid Strong. What did you join the chamber for with Kid Strong?

Christopher Patton (09:17.572)
Yeah, the real first reason was ribbon cutting, right? That was such a special moment for me to open the doors to my business, right, in my community. So, you know, naturally I was like, okay, this is how we do like the formal ribbon cutting, right, is with my local chamber. And it’s that day one high of when you’re with your Chamber of Commerce. And I love my local chamber here in my community. They do such amazing things.

But it was impossible for me as a business owner and being somebody on the tech side to not start connecting the dots after that. But then I’d say the other two main reasons is the same reasons, the data shows the top two reasons are because people want to network with fellow business leaders and they want to get more exposure for their business. And that was really my thesis behind Chamber and the direction I went in when we started building it out.

That was my motivating factor for joining and eventually building our product too.

Brandon Burton (10:15.475)
Yeah, so talk to us more about chamber. How does it help solve some of these issues of why, I mean it’s not doing ribbon cuttings for chambers, but how is it addressing some of these other things that people are joining the chamber for?

Christopher Patton (10:31.868)
Yeah, I need to go talk to my AI advisor to figure out how can we do ribbon cutting for Chambers. Now, yeah, so it serves, again, there’s two main purposes, which is giving Chambers of Commerce the new medium to be able to communicate with their members. And then, and I’ll jump into some more detail, and then there’s the member-to-member interaction side of things. So, what I will say is, there are even some CRMs that have an app that you can get. Andโ€ฆ

Brandon Burton (10:35.638)
Right?

Brandon Burton (10:54.67)
Thank

Christopher Patton (10:58.972)
You know, I’d ask those chambers when they think of when they bring that up is how’s the adoption in those apps? And is it because the concept of an app is not good or is it because the app is not good? Right? There’s plenty of apps that are really successful. So, you know, that’s again another one of my core beliefs is that just giving your members a portal to like update their billing information, you know, and things like that is not going to be this

this really motivating factor for them, right? So when we come back to the first item with the ability for chambers to be able to communicate to their members, right? You’ve got the events, you’ve got the news where they can do the push notifications to their members and even transactional emails to folks that haven’t downloaded the app yet.

Brandon Burton (11:39.992)
the facts we want to

Brandon Burton (11:50.03)
Thank

Christopher Patton (11:54.938)
And then we’ve got things like exclusive offers and business spotlights so they can highlight more of their businesses in a new way to their community. And then we also digitize their directory. So it’s pretty standard that most chambers of commerce have a list of all their businesses. And we’ve actually got an integration with Google Maps. So that way, we take all of their businesses and give them their own localized Google Maps within the app as well.

Brandon Burton (12:18.606)
Thanks

you.

Christopher Patton (12:22.596)
as well as like group chat functions. So can take your committees and give them their own group chats within the app. Plenty of other things. And then when it comes to the member to member interaction side of things, the real kind of real world use case I like to give is Brandon, let’s say we go to a networking event together. What typically happens is like we meet each other and the relationship probably ends there until we see each other at another event. And

What we’ve done is tried to change that, right? So if we meet at the event, we can connect in the app. And once we connect in the app, our system sends out a branded email for whatever Chamber of Commerce. So we own all the automations. So the Chamber of Commerce doesn’t have to worry about it. It actually connects us both through email. So then the next day when we get back to our office, wherever the eager beaver there is, can pick up the communication from there. And we can set up a business meeting. canโ€ฆ

just be connected for whenever we wanna connect again in the future. So it really takes those in-person connections and brings more value to them overall.

Brandon Burton (13:29.454)
Yeah. So the networking piece of it really is what captures my attention. That’s the big differentiator that I see is being able to take those in-person interactions that we’ll admit can be a little awkward sometimes, especially the follow-up can be a little awkward, bit salesy maybe, you know, depending on what it is. But when you can make a connection and really, you know, see that there’s something there, you know, mutually beneficial.

to connect on the app and then let that drive, you know, continued interaction down the road is so valuable.

Christopher Patton (14:04.028)
Yeah, because what happens, the real example I always give, and I always get smiles, and so it validates my thought here is, you give me a business card, I give you a business card, if we’re lucky, we remember to take it out of our pants before we do laundry. And know, best case scenario, it ends up in a pile in the corner of our desk, and you know, we like never get around to sending it. Yeah, don’t show whoever that is. But yeah, that pile.

Brandon Burton (14:25.48)
This pile. Right? Yeah.

Christopher Patton (14:31.836)
But that’s what I love, because now I go to my chamber events and I’m like, no, no, no, I’m not taking your business card. I’m going to connect with you in the app. then boom, we get an email into each other’s inboxes right there. And even if they haven’t downloaded the app yet, they get a notification through email saying, hey, Chris is trying to connect with you. And it prompts them to download the app. So we’ve tried to set up a lot of automations as well. When we think about why are other systems not being successful?

other apps not being successful. That’s a lot of it is you can’t just send an email at once telling your members to download something and assuming it’ll be successful. You got to really integrate it into your daily operations, but also you got to give them a tool that they actually want to use. That’s what it really comes down to.

Brandon Burton (15:17.398)
Yeah. Yeah. For me, seeing an unread email or an unread alert, you know, in an app is going to get my attention and bug me a lot more than seeing a stack of business cards on my desk that get buried by other papers. So I see where that, that really can propel, you know, those connections. so when you talked about the adoption of apps, just in general, like the CRM has an app. so it made me think I’ve been working with chamber since before iPhones came out.

Christopher Patton (15:27.836)
Yeah. That’s it.

Brandon Burton (15:47.457)
So not trying to date myself too much, it’s a, that where the iPhones, the androids came out and it was probably within two to three years, you start seeing the CRMs, the chamber CRM starting to launch apps because that was the new sexy thing is to have an app for your, iPhone or the Android. And it really was just super, super basic. And I really haven’t seen a whole lot of innovation going forward with those.

And I don’t know that the adoption was ever great in the beginning because it was essentially what you’d find on their website, just in an app. And if you don’t have to download an app to access the information, why would you? So anyway, I see where, where the adoption can be a challenge. Um, and for those who are, who are listening, who say, yeah, we have an app and nobody downloads it and nobody uses it or whatever. I think it all goes back to the value. Yeah. I believe it all goes back to the value. What’s the purpose of the app?

Christopher Patton (16:23.932)
Mm-hmm.

Christopher Patton (16:39.782)
Yeah, I believe you. I believe you.

Brandon Burton (16:46.798)
How’s that bettering to, working to better enhance the business environment, the interactions with individuals. So having something of value is very helpful and we’ll get that adoption going.

Christopher Patton (17:02.342)
Yeah, and if I could say real quick, whether it’s about CRMs or something else that the chambers use, a lot of technology they adopt is understandably so to help with their operations, right? So they can run their chamber more effectively. I totally understand that. And that’s where we are different. It’s like, we’re trying to cut through the noise and bring value in a different way, and we’re giving you a tool for your members. So no, we’re not your CRM. We’re another CRM.

And in some cases, are, yes, we are an added cost compared to what you’ve been paying. And that’s usually why they’re reaching out to me is they’re trying to see if they can find a cheaper CRM that still does a lot of the things, right? So, that budget conversations are real, but luckily I know we’re priced really competitively. But that’s where sometimes I think chambers get a little focused on

just having tools and tech for them and not the people they’re supposed to be servicing, the people that are paying the bills.

Brandon Burton (18:07.456)
Exactly. So talk to us about your app and how it works as far as like a chamber being onboarded. Is there data that’s provided to them as far as the user experience and feedback that maybe they can record some things in their CRM so they don’t totally lose, you know, that information? Because I do see a lot of value in that and who’s engaging and at what level.

Christopher Patton (18:32.026)
Yeah, great question. So, you know, all the members get pushed to download at the Chamber app. But as soon as they’re in the app, everything is white labeled and branded as whatever Chamber of Commerce. So they’re getting that experience, both in the logos and the coloring they’re seeing, as well as the push notifications that they’re seeing. And then, you know, as far as using this, the information they already have available. So the good thing is they’ve got this information in their CRM.

Truth be told, I talked to plenty of, I talked to.

they rely on spreadsheets as well. They don’t even have a CRM. so nonetheless, they just can simply upload their member information and that’s what provides access to the members. Same thing with the directories. When I talked about that Google Maps, right? They just download the list of their member businesses from their CRM or their source of truth spreadsheet. They just upload it into the backend admin system that they have access to. And that’s whatโ€ฆ

dictates what businesses are listed in there, what businesses can get spotlighted. So we can pull all that industry data and descriptions from Google itself.

Brandon Burton (19:46.733)
Yeah. So I think it’s important for Chambers to be tech forward thinking. I mean, that’s the way everything is going, right? When you just said spreadsheet, it made me cringe because I know there’s a handful of Chambers out there that are still trying to do things by a spreadsheet. So I know you have some thoughts as far as the tech forward thinking and especially as it relates to Chambers.

Christopher Patton (20:14.458)
Yeah, yeah. You know, I’m lucky in that I’ve had the chance to work for some pretty great organizations in the tech side for a while. So being an outsider to the Chamber of Commerce niche has been a learning experience for me. But at the same time, it’s helping me kind of show some folks some opportunities. I met with somebody recently who is new to their sales job, and I was showing them some of the tech tools I use.

for my outreach and just the automations and they were like, this is really cool. I need to get this set up. And so always happy to talk to people about that. yeah, Chambers of Commerce, right? They serve such a pivotal role in all of our local communities and they’re representing all these businesses in their community. And then sometimes they’re probably, sometimes they’re the least.

tech savvy organizations, not the people. And sometimes it’s budget limitations, It’s not for lack of care or effort. I see that in my conversations. There’s definitely that desire to adopt new technology because as you mentioned earlier, some of the bigger players in the market, they’ve been around for a while in the chamber industry as far as technology products and there’s just a lack of innovation.

Is the most blunt way to put it and and they’re raising prices at the same time. I mean I hear that constantly And you know, that’s what happens when you have somebody that has a massive market share right or there or there’s fewer players in a marketplace But I view that as exciting because that means there’s an opportunity for disruption both with what we’re offering and and this is really like V1 of our product I’m I am so stoked about all the things we have in our roadmap and I

telling you guys like we’re building a CRM. Like it’s happening. And you know, with all the feedback that I’ve gotten, I’ve done a number of discovery sessions with different chambers of commerce. So naturally I want to make sure we build something that people love. I mean, there is nothing scarier. I’ve done it. When you migrate CRMs, right, you’re just like, you know, please don’t let me lose all my data.

Christopher Patton (22:32.773)
So I get that and there will be that trust building process for sure as we start rolling that out later. Right now we’re hyper focused on just this end user experience for the members. But there’s no doubt that that’s in our roadmap and I’m excited about that because I mean the chambers are just to say they’re asking for it would be an understatement.

Brandon Burton (22:53.122)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And to your point, you know, with some of these bigger companies have been around a long time with the CRMs and whatnot. When it comes to like you mentioned, lack of innovation, I think the ideas are there. They get the feedback, obviously, but it’s like turning a huge ship versus a speedboat. Right. And when you got that much more people and to weigh in on decisions and what direction to go, it just takes longer. It’s a little slower.

lot slower. So to be able to pounce on that opportunity, you’re in a great spot.

Christopher Patton (23:29.967)
Yeah, it’s something referred to as tech debt. A lot of these older tech companies, not necessarily a chamber of commerce related, but just in general, they have tech debt where they have these really old tech stacks and old code in their code base. And to roll out net new features requires a lot more work than maybe a company like mine, because we don’t have to go back and fix this popsicle stick house of

of craziness that’s been built over the years in addition to just being able to roll out a new feature. So a lot of that exists right now.

Brandon Burton (24:05.036)
Yeah, yeah, for sure. You talked about right now really focusing on that end user experience and for the chamber members, that’s what it’s all about, is giving them a good experience that’s going to keep them around, that’s going to help support their business and help them grow and thrive. So I think that’s obviously where the focus needs to be, but along the way it’s supporting chambers. I see where that continual growth and evolution will be. But yeah, I’m excited to see what comes out with the

the CRM as you guys work on that coming up in the future.

Christopher Patton (24:38.319)
Yeah, I guess I’ve kind of put it out there now. So it has to happen.

Brandon Burton (24:41.346)
That’s right now it’s real. That’s right. What other features do you want to highlight or or aspects of the app and the platform that maybe we haven’t covered yet?

Christopher Patton (24:55.896)
You know, I’d say one of the things that I like them or yeah, one of the things that comes to mind is again, like I’m trying to take that member experience, like what are the real problems they deal with and they face? And sometimes it’s basic things, right? So an example I give is like, I meet somebody at an event and then I go home right to my eight month old daughter and I completely forget that person’s name.

I cannot remember what company they work for, right? Like we’re all so busy. And you went there to network and you’re like, I can’t even remember who I networked with, right? Maybe I remember their face. So within the app, that’s where you actually do have the ability to, you see all the people you’ve connected with, very, very short term we’re gonna have you where you can see what events you met them at. So you can be like hyper focused on remembering.

Brandon Burton (25:51.147)
Christopher Patton (25:53.849)
So things like that, again, those are the problems that I feel like we’re trying to solve in that what are the problems that are audible amongst chamber members, right? In like the pain points that they have, but then also there’s that Henry Ford put, which I’ve heard he may or may not have said, which is if I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said a faster horse, right? So part of this too is trying to also be innovative on my side.

Brandon Burton (26:17.208)
Try it.

Christopher Patton (26:22.573)
and come up with features that maybe members aren’t even thinking about because they don’t even know that it’s an option, right? So, you know, whether it’s in the near term checking in at events so they can see who’s at the events, right? So they know who they want to focus on talking to, you know, being able to just more intuitively search for specific industries. So like, I’m not necessarily just seeing like a business that does accounting on a directory, but I like

Brandon Burton (26:38.53)
Like that.

Christopher Patton (26:51.418)
I specifically who are the members and I can talk to them directly in the app and connect with them and try to meet with them. So again, just thinking about what is that member experience now and what could it be and really trying to digitize and improve that as much as possible without it feeling like a social network or like an online forum, right? That’s where companies go to die nowadays. So we’re not trying to do that.

Brandon Burton (27:14.04)
Yeah.

Christopher Patton (27:19.093)
Those things exist and it’s crickets. I’ve seen those with chambers of commerce. So we’re trying to do something that’s a bit more innovative.

Brandon Burton (27:27.276)
Yeah. I can see for the user to be able to see, you know, what events they connected with somebody at and over time to be able to see where are the events that are most worth my time to be at? Where do I make the best connections? And then, you know, as you continue rolling out features, if it becomes an option where I don’t know if you guys would do geo-fencing or anything at an event location, but then people show up and they get an alert of, you know, people that they’ve connected with in the past that are there and maybe, you know,

Christopher Patton (27:40.081)
Yeah.

Brandon Burton (27:57.475)
rekindle those connections. So lots of exciting ways to go about it. it’s very cool.

Christopher Patton (28:02.801)
That may or may not be very short term in the road map.

Brandon Burton (28:06.604)
Yeah, right. Well, Chris, I wanted to give you an opportunity for for those listening who are wanting to take their chamber up to the next level. What kind of tip or action item might you leave for them as a suggestion to help them in that in that goal?

Christopher Patton (28:28.433)
Sure, and I appreciate the opportunity to have people even hear me out on my thought on this. Something that I find super valuable as somebody that’s like across multiple industries is dedicating time to like listen and learn both from your existing industry, right? That’s a value that you serve, right? Like if folks are CEOs or member services and they are not dedicating an hour a week,

just for learning to improve the business. You’re just in reactive mode all the time. And that’s not me chastising, that’s just something I’ve learned. I’ve got something on my calendar twice a week that’s just like education time for me, both for industry and then external industry, right? So an easy way Chambers can do this if they’re looking for outside industry time, because again, number one thing I’ll say is listen to the Chamber Chat podcast orโ€ฆ

Brandon Burton (29:27.054)
Great, great suggestion.

Christopher Patton (29:27.121)
You got to do that, right? Yes, yes. But as far as looking outside, right? That’s where you can learn some other technologies that, you know, chambers aren’t thinking about, or, you know, other tools that, you know, maybe could be adopted by their organization. You know, a great way to do that is just pick your AI source of choice and just like, create that business advisor, you know, get in there on an ongoing basis and dedicate that time.

So it understands who you are, what mission you’re trying to serve and what your pain points are. And keep prompting and asking more questions. Don’t give up on that. you’ll uncover things, right? Because sometimes we just, I always say like, I don’t know what I don’t know, right? So that’s why you just got to keep asking questions and keep digging. And I think that’s where sometimes all of us as business owners or business leaders, we can get a little blindsided by just what’s directly in front of us. So I think that’s probably my suggestion.

I recommend.

Brandon Burton (30:25.91)
Yeah. To your point about getting outside of the, where your blinders are kind of those other, other industries, other organizations. And I think chambers by nature do that. They kind of cross pollinate because they have to, but, my oldest kid, he’s getting ready to do course selections and stuff for his first year of college coming up. And, and he’s looking at the honors program. And I didn’t understand this, but at the school, the honors program is not just Harvard classes.

But it’s an environment where there is that cross-pollination. So you might have a certain direction with your major, but it’s like, how does that relate to mathematics or the sciences or whatever it is? you cross-pollinate from different perspectives and really work together more collaboratively too. And there’s just a lot of value in that. So I appreciate that tip.

Christopher Patton (31:14.885)
Yeah, teaching them to think and not just remember.

Brandon Burton (31:17.57)
That’s right. That’s right. Well, Chris, as we look to the future of Chambers of Commerce, how do you see the future of Chambers and their purpose going forward?

Christopher Patton (31:28.475)
Yeah, I think the way just we’re heading as a business industry, right? Like it’s impossible to not, and I hate to do this, but it’s impossible to not bring up AI, right? It’s becoming integrated and everything. So with Chambers staying relevant in their local communities and looking to

Brandon Burton (31:41.367)
Yeah.

Christopher Patton (31:58.673)
you know, like meet the needs of the next generation of business leaders, right? You know, I kind of, I kind of think of myself, I’m, I’m, I’m on the cusp, but I’m not 40 yet. And so, you know, I’m on the, I’m on that generation of business owners, right? And, know, those are the folks that, that are using AI a lot that are looking for ways to, to, you know, interact with their local business community. And I think matching that with what is a really clear need in society right now for

for community, right? And that’s something that excites me about what we’re doing, right? People are joining lots of organizations. There’s a bump again in the data of people joining organizations. So I think as chambers look down the road and they think about, sure, they service the business community, but how can they be that organization that connects people, that provides community to the people in their area?

in that sense, while also looking at some of the technologies that are coming down the pike and how they can incorporate them. I think those are two really pivotal things, We got every business always has to be looking at how can they adapt. And people my age and younger, I think have this really strong sense and desire for community because we spent so much time online, right? And so giving usโ€ฆ

Brandon Burton (33:21.248)
Thank you.

Christopher Patton (33:25.083)
types of people, the opportunity to network and connect with people and feel that sense of belonging I think is really important. I think chambers are really positioned in an awesome way to do that.

Brandon Burton (33:36.736)
Yeah, I would agree. would agree. Well, Chris, why don’t you share some contact information for listeners who might want to learn more about Chamber. Where would you point them? How can they connect with you to set up a demo or anything else you have to offer?

Christopher Patton (33:52.805)
Yeah, sure. My home address is, no, I’m just kidding. You can email me at patent, P-A-T-T-O-N, like the general, at chaymber.com, so C-H-A-Y-M-B-E-R (patton@chaymber.com). You can find me on LinkedIn, Christopher George Patten on LinkedIn. You can also do support at chamber.com. If you go to our website, chaymber.com, you can just simply book a meeting or check our pricing on there if you want to. So, number of ways for you to do that with ease.

Brandon Burton (33:54.786)
Yeah.

Brandon Burton (34:21.15)
Very good. And we’ll get all that linked in our show notes for this episode as well. So make it easy for people to connect with you. But this has been great. It’s a fun conversation whenever we can talk about the innovative things that are happening in the chamber space. And I’m curious to keep an eye and see the continued evolution and how you guys grow and continue to develop. But thank you for being with us today and sharing these insights and valuable resources with us.

Christopher Patton (34:48.783)
Awesome, thanks again for the opportunity.


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Attract, Don’t Recruit with Christine Cribb

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Brandon Burton (00:00.536)
Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your host, Brandon Burton, and it’s my goal to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community. Our guest for this episode is Christine Cribb. And after a decade in the Chamber world, where she led the largest Chamber per capita in the entire state of Washington, Christine brought her signature spark and unstoppable energy to the Chamber to a chamber in the foothills of North Carolina. Last year, she made a bold move and stepped away from an industry she deeply loves and stepped into what’s next. Christine went back to school to earn her executive presence certification from Cornell University, launched her own boutique PR and strategy firm, Christine Cribb and Company, and poured her heart and experience into writing her powerful first book, Attract, Don’t Recruit, A fresh relationship driven roadmap for chambers and nonprofits who want to grow with purpose and energy. These days, she’s all about living fully and leading boldly by helping organizations connect with passion while soaking up every moment with her three amazing grandbabies. Christine brings energy, authenticity, and heart to every stage, every project, and every conversation. Get ready because Christine shows up with energy and

The room shifts when she arrives. So Christine, I’m happy to have you with us again here on Chamber Chat podcast. For those who are regular listeners, she was with us in episode 270 if you wanted to go back and listen to that. go ahead and say hello to all the Chamber Champions out there listening. And I always like to get the interesting fact about you.

Christine Cribb (01:44.143)
Hello Chamber Champions. and an interesting fact. Wonderful. Hello Chamber Champions. It’s such a pleasure to be here. Thank you so much, Brandon, for allowing me to come back on. An interesting fact about me would probably be that I spent 2020 during COVID in Italy. And I don’t want anyone to feel sorry for me because I drink lots of wine.

I learned how to cook authentically and it was probably the best adult timeout I had ever had. So there’s an interesting fact about me.

Brandon Burton (02:23.054)
of good food that I haven’t been there but I’m a fan of Italian food so how long were you there in 2020?

Christine Cribb (02:30.988)
I was there for an entire year. we were there when January, when it closed down in February. And then when the airports opened back up, I came home and did a nationwide search to go back into Chamber World. I really thought that there was no better time for chambers to be engaged and active and supporting small business than coming out of COVID for sure. Yeah.

Brandon Burton (02:56.088)
Yeah, absolutely. Well, tell us about your new venture, your new PR firm and the endeavors that you’re embarking on these days.

Christine Cribb (03:13.368)
Sure, sure. So you were cutting out a little bit there, but I believe you asked me what about after I left the chamber. Is that was that your question?

Brandon Burton (03:22.476)
Yeah, yeah, tell us what you’ve been up to these days with your PR firm and what you’re embarking on today.

Christine Cribb (03:28.298)
sure, sure. So I left the chamber last fall, just about this time of year. I left the chamber. visited with family all over the country and I was able to be present in my children and my grandchildren’s lives, which was really incredible. As everyone knows in chamber world, you’re balancing 27 plates and even though you’re visiting someone, you’re thinking of something else that should be done or needs to be done or did I tell somebody that? And so I was completely present. I came back.

I did go to school. went back to Cornell University and got an executive presence certification. And then I started my own. So I wrote my book January and February. I wrote my first draft and then started that entire process, which is phenomenal for anyone that wants to write a book. It’s just a great process of putting so much knowledge and story that you have to share that hopefully you make a difference to one person is incredible. So I wrote my book. I went back to school.

I started a little PR firm because I still have a great desire to help small businesses and businesses grow. And so instead of representing 600 members, I represent six. Six businesses that I can help put decision makers in front of them. I can give them exposure, public relations. It’s just delightful. It’s just a wonderful hands-on.

I am in charge of my own schedule. Don’t be envious, Chamber Champions, but I’m in charge of my own schedule. And I love the work so much. I still am absolutely passionate about helping businesses succeed.

Brandon Burton (05:08.13)
Yeah, and in this stage, you don’t have a board to report to or anything like that. So you’ve got a lot more freedom for sure. Yeah, I think.

Christine Cribb (05:16.93)
No board. Absolutely.

Brandon Burton (05:22.102)
I think this is the first time I’ve ever heard of the book writing process as being phenomenal from somebody. So you must have done something magical with the book. And a lot of other people talk about how strenuous it is and what a labor of love, those kind of descriptions. So I’m excited to learn about the book too. So most, go ahead.

Christine Cribb (05:41.707)
Right.

Christine Cribb (05:45.869)
super

Christine Cribb (05:50.242)
I just wanted to share that I thought I wanted to write a book. I wasn’t as secure in it until I did the research and realized that I had a story to tell and somebody will benefit from this story. And when I put it out to beta readers, the nicest compliment was, we can hear your voice. can hear that people could hear my voice in my words. And I thought, I’m going to share it.

I am not a literary virtuoso by any stretch of the imagination. I’m a Midwest girl. I speak in run-on sentences. I speak way too fast and I’m in the foothills of North Carolina. So be know that my editor constantly was slashing run-on sentence, run-on sentence, stop it, slow down. anyway, I did enjoy the process and it was, it’s my first of many books, I think. So I guess I enjoyed it where other people.

might have found it to be a challenge. I enjoyed it.

Brandon Burton (06:46.99)
That’s great, yeah, and other people say, I’ll never write another book again. And you’re just saying it’s the first of many.

Christine Cribb (06:48.653)
I also did lots of, Brandon, also did a lot of Yeah, rookie mistakes. So people, you you make mistakes. The first time doing something, you make mistakes. And I made a few. So, but it was a good lesson learned for sure. Yeah.

Brandon Burton (07:05.228)
Yeah, that’s great. So we’ll spend most of our conversation today talking about the theme of your book is attract. Well, it’s the title, but it’s the theme that we’ll carry on for this podcast recording is attract. Don’t recruit. And the importance of that.

When you look at it through a chamber lens, through a membership organization lens, I think it’s a great idea, a great concept, and great principles that we’ll dive into as soon as we get back from this quick break. All right.

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Brandon Burton (07:39.31)
All right, Christine, we are back. So as I mentioned before the break, we’re talking about attract, don’t recruit. So this is the title of your book, but tell us about how that title came to be, how that became the focus for your first book and what some of those lessons are that you share.

Christine Cribb (07:55.833)
Sure.

Super, thank you so much for asking. So a track don’t recruit came to me when I was coaching a membership position at my second chamber. I was coaching her and she said, so-and-so is not a member. I want to go get them and pitch them. And I said, you know, what’s interesting is that we doubled the chamber numbers in Cleveland County. And I never ever knocked on a door, handed a card.

said you’re not a chamber member come and visit me. We created energy and momentum that people leaned in and they came in and one by one we met every single one of them met with me.

They felt the benefits, they could see it and feel it, and they wanted to be part of it. The best example why I knew this was a track don’t recruit had to be the title, Brandon, is because in about my second year at this chamber, a woman came in and said, I can see so much energy on Facebook. I want to be part of this.

And I knew then that we had a little magic momentum going on and that needed to be the name of the book. Of course, I didn’t even know when I would be stepping down and retiring then, but I just knew then I would write a book and it would be called Attract Don’t Recruit. It would be all about infusing energy and making sure that people that ran chambers knew that they are the energy. They are responsible for managing up and managing down. They are the energy for their entire organization.

Christine Cribb (09:36.11)
So that’s kind of the meat and potatoes of the concept of how it got the title. And then it just evolved after that. would think of a topic like one of the most popular chapters right now that I’m getting feedback from is knowing your why.

Everyone talks about that. You really need to dive into why you do what you do and it empowers you to feel so much more authentic and convincing when you’re talking to someone when you understand your why. The other chapter that’s getting a lot of attention is the risky business I call it and it’s about taking risks. If you stay in the same mode you’re in, you will be in the same spot you’re in

two years from now, but if you take a risk and do something you’ve never done before. And in the book I share great risk takings. have a couple of really funny stories and then I share some failures. Like I can be completely bombed on something and it’s okay because at least I took the risk in doing it.

Brandon Burton (10:43.584)
Yeah, I like that. And with highlighting those two chapters, the why understanding your why is going to give you that drive that motivation to create that energy that you’re talking about, but also the risky business aspect. I’m sure there’s precautions, there’s things you need to look at. So you’re not just being, you know, totally flagrant with what you’re doing. But the risky business when you do something that’s exciting, it’s going to build that excitement that’s going to draw that attraction. Is there more that

can talk on on those two topics and building the energy around those those ideas.

Christine Cribb (11:20.599)
Absolutely, the risky business most importantly is that it’s strategic obviously and well vetted. I’ll share one really funny story. I was asked by a local community college to do a TV show.

and on Chamber World and Small Business. And so I went to my advisory committee, who is our board members. They’re the group that hired me and I wanted them to stay involved and I created an advisory committee. So the one, the chairman of the board said, let’s go drink some bourbon. We’ll have some bourbon brainstorming going on for, to discuss this. Well, I’m not a bourbon drinker.

So the host was about four doors down from where I live in my neighborhood, went to the bourbon brainstorm meeting. In five minutes, we decided that this TV show was not in our lane. We were not going to do it. and I agreed with that, but I just wanted it really well, once again, well vetted to take a risk of my time and energy. Right. And so I did drink my first old fashioned and I probably drank two of them.

Brandon Burton (12:33.804)
Okay.

Christine Cribb (12:36.347)
I then took something out of a jar and ate it and said, is the best grape I’ve ever tasted. And one of the men at the event said, at the meeting said, should we let her know that that is a bourbon soaked cherry? So that tells you that I was, I was enjoying that old fashioned.

On the way home, it was this time of year, on the way home, was kicking the leaves, walking home, and I had the brainstorm idea that we needed those gentlemen loved their bourbon. We needed to have a bourbon, gentlemen’s bourbon dinner. And we were looking for a way to raise capital funds to take care of the building.

So between within 24 hours, I was creating a gentleman’s bourbon dinner, tasting and dinner. I secured everything secured a sponsor, started to pull it together, pitch the board and said, let’s just try it. If it fails, it fails. But if let’s try it because of what I saw resonating with how much these gentlemen love their bourbon. So sure enough, we did it. I think it’s still in place now at the chamber and might be its fourth year.

that it’s happened, but it’s taken a risk. mean, we were adding alcohol in the Bible Belt in the foothills of North Carolina, and it was a huge success. We raised a lot of money, started the renovations on the building. It was fabulous. But that’s one example.

Brandon Burton (14:02.764)
Yeah, I think last time you’re on the show, we actually recorded the day after you had your bourbon event. it does, yeah. I believe so, I believe so. So I remember the energy coming from that, so yeah.

Christine Cribb (14:11.564)
That’s great. That’s great. Was it the first one? Was it? I think it was theโ€ฆ my gosh. That is great. that’sโ€ฆ Yes, that is one story that’s in the book. The other story I’ll tell share a failure also because everybody needs to take a risk of failing for sure. Coming out of COVID, there were so many positions that were open.

Brandon Burton (14:32.076)
Yes.

Christine Cribb (14:41.74)
Brandon that businesses needed employees. And so I thought, well, we’ll have a Friday career cafe. We’ll open up the chamber. We’ll have businesses set up little tables. We’ll have people come in that want to work that are seeking jobs. Well, we had businesses want to come in and they did great. They sat there, they visited with each other, they networked and we had tricklings of people coming in interested in looking for a job. And what that told me

was that our lane was not in the people looking for work. We did not work well in bringing those people in. We needed to leave that to the people that do that, NC Works. We needed to leave that to the groups that are part of unemployment and helping people get jobs and partner with them. We didn’t need to do something solo. So we tried it for three months and

And it was not successful and I was okay with that. At least we tried it and then we were able to partner with other organizations to help fill some of these positions for businesses. But we took a chance.

Brandon Burton (15:51.235)
Yeah.

So I think, and I like that example, it makes me think about even from the employer standpoint, when you interact with businesses or for those listening with your member businesses, the practice of attracting and not recruiting is beneficial even in the hiring process, when they are looking to bring on employees. I see this firsthand right now, my wife is applying for jobs and stuff and it’s tough when some of these businesses are not

trying to attract, you know, they’re they’re doing more of the recruiting style instead of, you know, showing how attractive they are and drawing people to them. And then they have the same problems all the time of, know, we just don’t have enough people or we can’t, you know, retain people because they’re not attracting. So I think there’s parallels from the membership organization to the employer standpoint as well. But it looks like you have an idea to expand on.

Christine Cribb (16:29.03)
Alright.

Christine Cribb (16:37.393)
Hmm.

Christine Cribb (16:49.57)
Absolutely.

Absolutely, I do because when you’re applying for a job You want to know also what’s in it for me your wife wants to know? What are you offering me? Not just what you need. I need you to and the old job description is not enticing anymore, right? And we just want to know is there family flexibility is there?

you know, what are the perks of working for you, not just hone in on what do you need? I think that’s really important. And I think there’s businesses that are definitely shifting to that because they want to attract the right people, not just fill a position, right? And then not as much with seeking employment, but with the membership aspect.

It’s all about relationship building, right? It’s about making somebody feel so incredibly valuable in your organization that they want to be part of it.

We worked really hard on, and it’s in the book of not, we tried never to say the word no. If someone asks for something and everyone in Chamber Champions, you know, people ask for things all the time. When someone would say, do you know what the Chamber should do? I would think, wait, am I sitting back eating bonbons? I don’t think so, right? You know what the Chamber should do. Anyway, I think,

Christine Cribb (18:19.674)
that relationship building. lost my train of thought there because that was so funny to me. I remember people saying that, but it’s all about relationship building for sure. Cultivating relationship that people want. and we never said no. So we had a list of things that we don’t do. Brandon, we didn’t say we can’t do that. That’s not our job. If somebody said, can I pay my electric bill here? Well, obviously you cannot pay your electric bill at the Chamber of Commerce, but instead of just saying no,

Brandon Burton (18:23.874)
Right, yeah. You talked about never saying no, right?

Christine Cribb (18:47.26)
Our front desk gal, the administrative assistant, Catherine, would walk the person out the front door, share with them going down to City Hall. They could pay their city bill, write down one block down, take a left, it’s right there. She would try to over deliver. She would not just simply say the word, no, we don’t do that. Then I had something called, can I say a bad word?

Brandon Burton (19:12.814)
Sure, we’ll clean it up if we need to.

Christine Cribb (19:15.022)
Okay, I said.

Clean it up if you need to, but we would have something in an email. People are so busy and they have so many emails. I would tell staff, just deliver a shit sandwich. Deliver a really nice opening. Be a nice, warm, hello, thank you so much for the email. Then get to the point without saying the word no, you’re dreaming. We can never do that. We’re a chamber of commerce. Deliver what you can do, not what you can’t, and then end it very, very positively. So I better come up with a new name for that, but that was the philosophy.

also no negative words never saying anything ill about your board somebody else your employees your members just keeping it so Genuinely positive that once you’re in the habit of not doing that. It’s like a piece of cake Yeah, and that infuses energy by staying positive all the time. Yeah

Brandon Burton (20:09.016)
and you’d rather have a cake than one of those sandwiches.

Christine Cribb (20:11.996)
Right. That’s right. That’s right. I also had a really special moment on the I have a chapter called train and trust. And in that chapter, I share a story about someone who’d worked for me that had been in chamber world for 11 years. And I took her to the first chamber conference, her first.

And when she came back, she bloomed in such a beautiful, incredible, empowering way, giving her some tools that she was able to go someplace for three days and speak the language of chamber world. Not only leaders and board members need to go to those, but when you bring your staffโ€ฆ

to an event like that, they feel so empowered when they get home and she bloomed, she was already phenomenal, but she even bloomed even more, more so. So that empowerment, the train them, give them the training and then trust them to do their job is really great.

Brandon Burton (21:16.342)
Yeah, I love that. So from a membership perspective, does the train and trust, does it have applications there as well when you’re trying to attract rather than recruit?

Christine Cribb (21:29.058)
Absolutely, so we, two things happened that taught me about this. The first was at my first chamber and a really great supporter and mentor of mine, Dan Aulis from Would Be Coffee, he came in and said, your structure is wrong. You have a membership coordinator, but you are on top of her all the time and wanting to make sure that every new member meets with you.

Why don’t you make her events coordinator and you just take membership? Because these people are coming in the door and they want to talk to you. So we actually changed the structure. Then when I got to North Carolina, there were only two of us at the time. So I absolutely met with every single new member. When we were able to grow, we hired a membership coordinator. And that is when I started to share that attract, don’t recruit. They’re walking in the door. Our job is to give.

not just sign that person up, but cultivate that relationship that makes them feel like they belong. You don’t need to be out on the street knocking on doors to people that don’t know what the chamber is. Let the domino effect, the energy in which you’re projecting, let that trickle down through your ambassadors, through your board, through your brand new members that just thank you. They thank you for these benefits and they walk out the door and they tell other people and they walk in the door. And it doesn’t happen overnight. We were coming out of COVID.

You know, I think on that first podcast I did, I shared that we were coming out of COVID. We had 14 events and that year coming out of COVID and within two years we had 149. I mean, we just set things on fire, whether it was a ribbon cutting once a week, whether it was adding more events like the bourbon event and some other events that we did too.

And so it’s really, it takes a little while, but it absolutely is worth the stop trying to beg people to join your Chamber of Commerce.

Brandon Burton (23:27.68)
Yeah, yeah, be attractive. Is there another key point or two that you want to draw out from the book before we wrap things up?

Christine Cribb (23:35.376)
Well, sure, one thing is, there’s so many cool things to share. But one is to make sure that you, one chapter is a refueling station, that you make sure you take time to take care of yourself. That is more critical than ever because that work is never ending and I’m well aware of that. When I could step back and be completely present in my children’s lives, I didn’t know that I was doing exactly what I told people not to do.

Brandon Burton (23:42.72)
I know it.

Christine Cribb (24:04.335)
which was just drinking from a fire hose, even though I thought I had it all together. The other thing is key performing indicators. When you start to brainstorm and take a risk, when you have key performing indicators that are valuable, not just the board wants to know how many members and how much money we have, use really good quality key performing indicators to help you determine your risk taking and the decisions that you make down the road.

And then there’s a whole chapter on time management because I tried every single one of them. There’s like 14 different tactics to manage your time. I’ve tried everyone. I’ve merged them. I’ve said this is never going to work for me, but there’s some great tools in there. And mostly it’s about really being the energy behind your chamber. You know, I have a hashtag called room shifter.

Like be a room shifter when you walk in a room people should light up you should be able to Attract the energy if you walk in a room and nobody’s walking up to talk to you You need to put a smile on your face and you need to start walking up to them and put shaking hands and working the room That’s not even beginning there’s 23 chapters brandon Yes, yes

Brandon Burton (25:17.687)
Right? Just hitting a few of the highlights, right? But I love the idea about being a room shifter because there should be an energy change and if there’s not, like you should take the energy you have and then go find those others that need to either have an infusion of that energy or just connect with that energy or whatever it may be, but it should change the tone of that room and show that what you’re doing matters, right?

Christine Cribb (25:24.111)
Yes.

Christine Cribb (25:36.813)
Yes.

Absolutely.

Yes, I also told people that if you’re not a networker, just come alongside me during an event and before you know it, you will be paired off with somebody that you had never met before. And if you yourself as a leader are not a networker, go find one. Go find one and learn how to do it. Really know how to work a room. You should light up that room when you walk into it. Yep.

Brandon Burton (25:54.35)
Great idea.

Brandon Burton (26:07.628)
Yeah, I love that idea. Christine, is a yeah, this has been great. You’ve hit on a lot of great ideas and topics and points from the book. I wanted to ask you for the Chamber Champion listening who’s wanting to take their organization up to the next level. What kind of tip or action item would you leave for them as they try to accomplish that goal?

Christine Cribb (26:10.884)
All right, the screen froze. There we go.

Christine Cribb (26:36.668)
I would like to tell them to start living like you’re a legend. Start energizing people, rooms, have over deliver in being authentic, but your energy, your positive energy shifts people, shifts rooms, shifts organizations. We all know the toolkit. We all have the rule. We’ve all read the books. We’ve all, we know how to run a chamber.

What you have to have is that authentic, genuine energy that takes it to the next level.

Brandon Burton (27:12.543)
I love that. It’s a great tip. So I know I had asked you this question when you were on the show before, but I like asking everybody for their current perspective. As we look to the future of Chambers of Commerce, how do you see the future of Chambers and their purpose going forward?

Christine Cribb (27:14.448)
Good. Good, good, good.

Christine Cribb (27:31.087)
I love it. I will look back and see what my answer was a couple years ago when I was here because it has changed. So when I wrote the book and I did some research on chambers throughout American history, what happened every decade was that chambers would shift their priorities across the country. They would shift.

what the priorities were depending on what was going on during that time. So I believe chambers will thrive and survive. Absolutely. I feel like they have to do it being open and willing to change and do things differently than they’ve ever done it before. So for example, obviously during COVID chamber was a huge part of workforce and knowing what was going on. The other thing would have been to be

I would tell Chambers to be a change agent. Be the change agent. If the future is AI, get on AI. Figure out what it is, offer classes, make sure that you learn everything that you can about it. If something’s going on in your county, get a seat at the table that lets you take the lead in being a change agent.

Brandon Burton (28:46.252)
Yeah, being able to just sit back and see the change happen is not going to serve your organization well. It’s not going to serve you as a leader. Well, you need to be that agent driving the change, recognizing where the future is going and be seen as that thought leader and that change agent. It’s ahead of the pack.

Christine Cribb (28:53.424)
No.

Christine Cribb (29:01.175)
Absolutely.

Absolutely. Yeah. And I feel like that’s, that’s, that’s phenomenal. That’s the deal maker is, is being able to get a seat at the table, to be part of what’s coming next, because there’s always something coming next. You can’t sit still for three, five, 10 years and think that you’re not going to have some changes going on that you need to be a major part of. Yeah.

Brandon Burton (29:30.22)
That’s right. That’s right. Find your original answer. Well, Christine, now the important question is for those listening who want to connect with you and learn more about attract, don’t recruit or where to pick up the book or connect with you, where would you point them and what would be the best ways to connect?

Christine Cribb (29:32.206)
Now you make me want to go back and look at my first video chat with you. I will look at that podcast for sure.

Christine Cribb (29:54.374)
Thank you.

Thank you so much. So you can purchase the book through Amazon. The name of the book is Attract Don’t Recruit, by Christine Cribb You can also reach out on Facebook in any time. I have a workbook coming out that’s going to be a companion workbook to the book, which will be great for directors, presidents of chambers. It’ll be great for board of directors and for staff. The workbook will have how to work your why.

really understanding your purpose and how to organize the time management aspect is in the workbook. That’ll be out by the end of December. So Facebook, but you can also reach me on my website is christinecribb.com. My next book will be announced on there. It’s called Mind Your Own Business. And it’s really for entrepreneurs that are trying to do a startup.

Brandon Burton (30:49.163)
Okay.

Christine Cribb (30:54.844)
you know, the people that say

I make a great lasagna, so I’m going to open an Italian restaurant. So it’s really a great guide for directors and presidents of chambers to guide entrepreneurs in the right direction. When you don’t know what you don’t know, you better find someone that does know, right? So that is one book. And then I’m going to write a book called Lipstick and Laugh Lines. And it’s about women that reinvented themselves after the age of 50. So if anyone has a great story,

of a woman who reinvented herself after 50 years old, it could end up in my book. And so if you think of the old chicken soup for the soul, I don’t think you’re old enough, Brandon, to remember that, are you? So if you remember, okay.

Brandon Burton (31:37.964)
Yeah, yeah. Well, that’s a great compliment, but yes, I do remember it.

Christine Cribb (31:45.457)
So Chicken Soup for the Soul, it will be that kind of stories. They’ll be small stories in there of women who reinvented themselves out of inspiration. So I got the bug to write books and so now I’ve got a couple more coming down the pipe. But ChristineCribb.com will get you to my website. Facebook will very easily message me on Facebook, follow me on Facebook. It’s really fun to watch what’s happened with the book.

We had 60 people come to the book launch at the chamber here in Shelby and I was overwhelmed. It was so humbling and exciting. Yes.

Brandon Burton (32:20.908)
That’s fun. That is really cool. Well, congratulations to you on getting your first book out there. We look forward to getting our hands on it, but also the future books that are coming out as well. And we’ll make sure to connect all your shout outs, your Facebook and website and Amazon and everything in our show notes. So it’ll be easy for listeners to connect and find the book and follow your journey. So this has been great. Thank you. You bet.

Christine Cribb (32:26.214)
Thank you.

Christine Cribb (32:40.592)
Thank you.

Christine Cribb (32:46.032)
Thank you so much. Brandon, thank you for this opportunity. Thank you.


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Creating a Chamber Flywheel with Dave Moravec

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Below is an auto-generated transcription. Because this is auto-generated there are likely some grammatical errors but it is still a useful tool to search text within this podcast episode.

Feel free to join our Chamber Chat Champions Facebook Group to discuss this episode and to share your own experiences and tips with other Chamber Champions.

Brandon Burton (00:01.57)
Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat podcast. I’m your host, Brandon Burton, and it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community. Today’s guest is a dynamic leader and author.

Since 2020, Dave Moravec has served as a president of the Colerain Chamber of Commerce, bringing with him over four decades of experience in business ownership and leadership across diverse industries.

From owning a printing company to leading chambers in both Illinois and Ohio, and even working in educational technology, Dave’s career is a testament to versatility and vision. Under his leadership, the Colerain Chamber earned the prestigious title of Ohio’s Chamber of the Year for Small Chambers in 2021, reflecting his commitment to foster business growth, connection, and collaboration.

Dave is all about meaningful work and creating strategic opportunities for local businesses to thrive. Outside of his professional achievements, Dave is a published author and avid traveler and still hits the field for competitive baseball. His latest ventures include releasing Echoes Across the Tracks in 2024 and two more books in 2025.

Dave, I’m excited to have you with us today here on Chamber Chat podcast. I’d love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the Chamber Champions who are out there listening and to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little bit better.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (01:41.15)
appreciate that, Brandon. Again, after a long career in for-profit work, I landed myself in the Chamber of Commerce field, not really thinking that this was gonna be a late in life career shift, but it’s turned out really well, and I’m sure we’ll talk about that. Something somebody would not know about me would be that I was on the Jay Leno Tonight Show in 2011.

I have a bar trick where I can balance coins on my elbow and catch them in a snatch form. And they had a segment where they gave out a meal or no meal if you did your trick on stage, so on screen. So they flew me out to California, got to meet Jay, got lots of notoriety at that time, literally 15 seconds of fame.

Brandon Burton (02:23.212)
Okay.

Brandon Burton (02:37.542)
That’s awesome. So how many coins could you stack on your elbow to snatch in that action?

Dave Moravec – Colerain (02:44.362)
Well, not only did I stack them on my elbow, but I also was blindfolded while doing it. So I’ve logged to my LinkedIn page. If anybody is interested, there’s a blog post from back then blindfolded by Jay Leno. Ultimately, I caught 25 coins, 25 half dollars because the studio was so cold. My hand was freezing up. They have the hot lights on the stage.

Brandon Burton (02:51.093)
Okay.

Brandon Burton (03:13.517)
Yeah.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (03:13.822)
So they keep the foodie-o really cold. Well, your hand freezes up and so the producer said, we don’t care how many you catch, it’s just the fact that you’re getting blindfolded by Jay and you’re gonna catch some coins. It’s a silly thing. we just had some fun with it and I’ve been doing it since I was a kid.

Brandon Burton (03:35.215)
That’s awesome. I’m sure there’s a whole story on how you got onto the radar to get on the Tonight Show, but that’s a great fact and I love finding out these little tidbits about people. That’s awesome. Well, tell us a little bit more about the Colerain Chamber. Give us an idea of the size, staff, scope of work you guys are involved with, budget, to kind of set the stage for our discussion today.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (03:55.614)
Sure.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (03:59.624)
Yeah, our chamber’s only 11 years old and I came in five and a half years ago to take over as the first executive director, president, CEO. And we had a previous president that was part-time, had laid the foundation for the logo, the website, chamber master, all sorts of foundational pieces. And my role was to take it to the next level.

I started February 10th of 2020 just as COVID was about to happen. And we kind of threw out the 2020 plan and went a different direction. At the time we pared down our membership because people hadn’t come off of the roles that should have come off the roles. We determined there were about 150 active members at that time. We currently have about 275.

So we’ve not quite doubled in the five plus years that I’ve been here. We manage about a $250,000 budget and our community is 60,000 residents. So the second largest township in all of Ohio. myself, part-time marketing and events coordinator. She does some of the admin work. And then I have a part-time person who manages our green initiative.

We’ve got the largest waste facility in greater Cincinnati in our community and litter and recycling and composting is really important to us. So we’ve made an investment from a staff perspective to have a part-time person that does that. myself and two part-time people.

Brandon Burton (05:40.537)
Wow. Well, that definitely helps to get us that perspective. And it seems like there’s been a lot of chamber professionals who were hired in that first quarter of 2020, right before, you know, everything kind of fell apart. So you’re in good company with a lot of others who got thrown into the fire and had to learn, you know, with a lot of stress going on. we’veโ€ฆ

Dave Moravec – Colerain (06:04.392)
Well, it worked. It worked actually in my favor because of my background in corporate work. You always have to be ready for a challenge. You have to be ready for a paradigm shift. And so when COVID was announced as, you know, closing down the state and it was March 17th, it actually was the day we moved physically to Ohio from Illinois as well. So I’m in a new community, a new situation.

And we just sat down and brainstormed what we could do, what would be allowable under the situation. And we just made it work. And it was just a natural fit. And I’ve told people for the last five years, it was the best decision I made.

Brandon Burton (06:48.064)
Yeah, you know, my family actually moved that same week too. And it gave us a lot of time to hang pictures and unpack boxes and all that with the, you know, being quarantined, but work goes on.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (06:57.33)
Yeah.

Brandon Burton (07:02.444)
But so you have another interesting fact about you that was shared in the the bio, but you’re an author. So Echoes Across the Tracks. Before we get into our topic for today, I wanted to have you tell us a little bit about Echoes Across the Tracks and how it came to be, where the idea came from and what you tap into as you as you write the series. I mean, there’s there’s three books now.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (07:20.67)
Yeah.

Brandon Burton (07:30.53)
But give us that high level synopsis of it and the idea for it.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (07:31.07)
rooms.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (07:34.825)
Yeah. Yeah. And Thanksgiving of 2023. So not quite two years ago. I just had an idea to sit down and tell a story. And the more I wrote, the more it turned into a book. I’ve done a lot of travel as most of us have. We’ve had crazy travel and I had a really crazy travel experience, planes, trains and automobiles type experience over the summer coming back from Colorado.

And so I started writing one, it was the Friday after Thanksgiving. And I just kept typing and typing and by the end of the weekend, I had 10 chapters done. And by the end of the week, the following week, I was done with the book with 17 chapters. Echoes Across the Tracks takes place on the Amtrak train from New Orleans to Chicago.

Main characters heading to the airport as much of us do, we get a flight cancellation notice and we have to react to it. I guess kind of like the chamber reaction in March of 2020. Something had to happen and my cab driver in the story suggests that the main character Charlie take the train instead. And that starts a 30 hour journey from New Orleans to Chicago on the Amtrak train.

The subtitle is Life Lessons Through Unexpected Connections, because you never know where you’re gonna meet somebody. And the train was a good vehicle to be able to talk about networking and meeting people in a professional way and looking others in the eye and shaking hands. The story is told from my perspective. Charlie is an aging business consultant who’s promoting a book in New Orleans. And the storyโ€ฆ

takes place over that 30 hour period and it really is just that short a period that the story is told.

Brandon Burton (09:33.241)
So there’s even some chamber connection through the book. As I’ve started reading it, the main character, Charlie, had a profession as a chamber leader. So I love that connection and the tie-in and trying to make, I know if it was your intent, but I like the efforts in trying to make chambers of commerce more mainstream and more front of mind, if we can, to the average person in the community.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (10:01.256)
Yeah, absolutely. We become ambassadors and I’m sure we’ll talk about it as we go through the conversation here, Brandon, but I feel like we can all be ambassadors for Chamber of Commerce, just like we are for a restaurant or for a hotel or for a particular business. And so the last two pages of the book, I actually devote to describing what I call the Chamber of Commerce.

value proposition. And I spell it out really simple in four paragraphs. And somebody who picks up the book, who’s a business professional, may have not thought about Chamber of Commerce as a way to network or to provide marketing support for their business, to get involved in their community or look for ways to compete with larger businesses, you know, in their market space. And so there’s a purpose for, you know, for putting that

piece in at the end. I did so in the sequel that I just recently produced as well. I kept the exact same value proposition in the back of the book to keep it consistent. But Charlie, the main character, has to head back to New Orleans for reasons that I won’t share here because we don’t have enough time. yeah, I don’t want to do that. But the second story is

Brandon Burton (11:20.824)
Can’t spoil the story either, so.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (11:28.242)
think just as interesting and compelling, but doesn’t focus on networking, focuses on customer service. And customer service today in many industries has been taken down a notch because of a variety of different things that business owners aren’t really thinking about. And so I felt that it was important to do so and wrote that into the second book.

Brandon Burton (11:52.183)
Yeah, that’s great. I’ve been enjoying it and I would encourage anybody else listening to check it out. Great story and you’ve got a great creative mind to put it together.

So maybe as a little bit of a segue in the book that goes across the tracks, the main character Charlie, he’s learning and sharing business practices that he’s learned throughout his career and in a large way, that’s what the podcast is for, having different chamber leaders on and talking about business lessons and things that they’ve learned through their career. So today we have Dave on the show to talk about creating a

Dave Moravec – Colerain (12:05.544)
Thank you, Brenda.

Brandon Burton (12:35.472)
chamber flywheel. And it’s a term that I’ve heard before, but I haven’t heard in the term of chambers using a flywheel or creating a flywheel at their chamber. So we’ll dive into that and what all that means as soon as I get back from this quick break.

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All right, Dave, we’re back. As I mentioned before the break, we’re talking about creating a chamber flywheel today.

What does that term mean to you? Where did this come from and how have you guys worked to implement this at the Colerain Chamber?

Dave Moravec – Colerain (13:09.032)
Sure, we actually have two flywheels. The concept is easy to find if you go to Jim Collins’ book, Good to Great. It’s got a red cover and it has a ring to it. Just like my wife, her name is Patty. So we go by Dave and Patty from Cincinnati. Well, you can find the flywheel in Good to Great in chapter eight. And if you find Jim Collins’ purpose behind it,

He talks about the four to six things that make a business go faster or grow faster or to become stronger But you have to sit down and think about those things and once you come up with those four to six unique Ideas processes Whatever that looks like for your organization and in our case the Chamber of Commerce Then you have to put them in order

and do them in the proper order. So as an example, we might invite people to the chamber and do that really well. And we might do marketing really well. But if we do them in backwards order, we may not get the same result. And so we as a Chamber of Commerce in 2020, I took the Board of Directors through this flywheel process because I didn’t know the community. I was new here.

certainly knew the process of creating a flywheel and using it, but I wasn’t sure what that meant for our Chamber of Commerce. So we did that, we created that flywheel, and then I incorporated a second flywheel. And that’s really what I’ve been teaching on for the last five years, Brandon, to other Chamber leaders. It really has three components. One at the top, where you’re attracting businesses to your Chamber of Commerce.

And if you’re attractive to those chambers of, to the businesses in your community, meaning if you’ve got an outward way about you, your marketing, et cetera, is strong, you’re gonna be attractive and attract others. Well, once you do, you bring them to an event or you show them the value proposition of being involved in a chamber of commerce, you have to engage them. So the second component is engagement.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (15:29.738)
That means coming out to an event, talking to other people, doing something besides sitting in your office and going, well, yeah, maybe I’ll send a check to the Chamber of Commerce. They got to get up and do something. So you have to find a way to engage them. And once you do, hopefully the enthusiasm of your Chamber of Commerce is going to be so compelling that they’re going to become a member or in our case, we use the word investor. So we’re investing in our community. We’re investing in our Chamber of Commerce. We’re investing

in our business community. And once they do and they see that that’s an investment, not a spend, at the end of the month when the monthly dues come around for your chamber, or if you’re on a quarterly or as we are in an annual basis, you’re not thinking that the business isn’t thinking about cutting a check to cover expenses. They’re doing it because they’re investing in the community. And if they are,

and they’re so enthusiastic. The third component is delight. They’re so delighted in what is being offered by the Chamber of Commerce and what you’re doing and what you’re giving back to the community. They’re so delighted, they’re gonna come full circle and attract others that you don’t know. These might be neighbors, these might be business associates, they could be outside of your geography, but see the value of being involved in your community because you have a series of

customers in the community that would be a fit or the business connections or even just the friendships that are developed might be attractive enough that, there you go. There’s the graphic. That’s the perfect graphic. So attract at the top, engage as you come around the lower right-hand corner of the flywheel to the point of delight. And once you’re delighted, you become an ambassador.

just like you would on your fine dining restaurant that you make a suggestion, hey, you got to go to such and such a restaurant when you’re in our community. You’re so delighted you become an ambassador. Many chambers of commerce have ambassador groups. They have a small group of eight or 10 individuals who are charged with wearing a badge on their shirt or their jacket that says ambassador.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (17:52.091)
I want our chamber members to all be ambassadors, because if they’re all working together, that flywheel spins faster and faster and faster than if we just have a handful. And that’s the concept that I’ve been teaching Brandon and that we’ve been promoting as a chamber of commerce for the last five years.

Brandon Burton (18:12.29)
But as you delight the people, it closes that wheel where the delight goes back to attract and just it starts that that whole cycle over again with those new people that are being introduced to what the chamber has to offer.

And when I think of a flywheel, think of it’s a way of applying leverage really. I mean, you have a goal and you’re trying to get there either quicker or more efficiently and the leverage that can be provided as you shared with the attract, engage and delight is going to kind of have that focus all around the growth and applies that leverage to the growth.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (18:50.256)
Absolutely. And there’s two significant additional components to this messaging. First off is that in traditional chambers of commerce, there’s a membership director, somebody who’s going out into the community and I’m just going to use air quotes, selling memberships to the chamber of commerce. And somebody can be sold on the idea of being involved in the chamber of commerce, but if they’re not engaged for the right reason, they’re not going to necessarily be delighted. And so when the

time for their reinvestment comes up, it’s a membership, just like a gym membership. I didn’t really use it, I didn’t really see any value to it, so no, I’m not gonna do that again. So we don’t do that. I don’t go door to door, nor does my team go door to door saying, hey, do wanna be a part of the Chamber of Commerce? We let the flywheel just naturally take place. And so the referrals that come in, or the people that are attracted around the

the side of the wheel by those that are delighted are far more interested in being involved, much like a fraternity or a sorority would be. You’re inviting them and they feel welcome. That’s different than selling them on a membership. Second thing is that it eliminates a sales funnel. A lot of businesses look at a sales funnel and they go, let’s get as many people in the top part of the funnel as we can. And then we’ll do something in the middle.

to try to get them out at the bottom as a new member or as a client. Well, once you get them, so to speak, you gotta go do something else with them. And getting them doesn’t sound like it’s very attractive. I see the look on your face. You don’t sound very sold on that idea, Brandon.

Brandon Burton (20:38.446)
Well, and I’ve heard different business owners, different from a wide array of different types of businesses. But if when they have that focus of the sales funnel, they always have to keep upping the ante of what’s that next level that we can sell? What’s that next? And then you get into the, especially with online business, you see a lot of this where they have their high ticket items. It’s a $20,000 mastermind membership or something.

And something ridiculous that only, you know, one or 2 % of anybody who enters that funnel is going to get there. But as long as they spend money, they keep finding what’s that next level that we can keep extracting money out of them is what it ends up being rather than providing that value and showing them that there’s a reason that you’re here and this is what we’re doing for you and keeping that going as a circle. So yes, that’s resonating with me very well.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (21:37.331)
Yeah, and what ultimately happens is, again, couple things that are hugely beneficial. Number one, your rate of retention is significantly higher because they see it as an investment and a continuation of a relationship. You also decrease the amount of chasing that you’re doing to phone calls. Hey, are you interested in joining the change? Hey, did you get my email?

Hey, you know, it sounds kind of cheesy, but it’s far more professional if you’re inviting a friend to a business networking event or to a women’s luncheon or to, you know, to a large fundraiser or awards dinner. If you’re inviting them as opposed to selling them on the idea of, you know, you hear the difference there, Brandon? Yeah.

Brandon Burton (22:32.706)
Yeah, yeah, it’s selling versus inviting. Like, what do you want to be involved with, right?

Dave Moravec – Colerain (22:38.472)
Yeah, exactly. And again, it’s something that we’ve actually been tracking is the number one reason, and this goes back to the good to great flywheel. Among the first things we realized was that each chamber member has a different reason for being involved in a chamber of commerce. So somebody who comes for our ancillary benefits and insurance programs or workers comp may not be interested in networking. And somebody who’s interested in networking

may not be interested in giving their time back to the community and engaging with nonprofits or becoming a board member. Each has a different reason for being involved. So we actually track that in our CRM and in Chambermaster. And the second part of our flywheel is actually engaging them and making sure that that component is fulfilled. So if we’re not providing enough networking opportunities for those that are

interested in networking, they’re going to naturally go away. If we’re not providing enough marketing opportunities to sponsor and get people’s logos out in front of the community, they’re not going to see the Chamber of Commerce as having value. So we make sure that we’ve not just identified what it is, but fulfilled the promise that we’ve made to them and we’re going to create that value.

when we add value to it through innovation and through relationship building, all of a sudden there’s more value associated with that membership or that investment. And that value adds to the flywheel. And the last component of our flywheel is actually being able to tell that story through marketing. Because if we’re not attracting others by telling that story of, hey, you can be involved in this networking thing and

We had a chamber member not too long ago, sold her first million dollar account. Well, being able to tell that story to other people and that she could share that on our sales summit, all of a sudden people go, wow, hey, what can I learn from this person? And it just attracts more attention and more people to us.

Brandon Burton (24:58.862)
Yeah. So one thing that comes to mind is with the flywheel and trying to get people engaged. the attract and then engage. I’ve heard it said before that trying to find a quick win for somebody, you somebody comes into the organization, they’re testing out a business, whatever it is. What can you do to provide a quick win for that individual to where they immediately see that there’s value in them being there?

and participating. So as you guys have implemented this and practiced this flywheel concept, have you been able to identify ways to create a quick win? maybe within the first three to six months, maybe six months might even be too long, but maybe within the first three months to be able to provide a quick win for these investors that come in and join the chamber and are engaging or trying to engage.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (25:29.563)
Yeah.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (25:57.683)
Yeah, I’m gonna answer it two ways. First is the traditional way. People are looking for ROI, right? They’re looking for that quick win from a return on investment. They’ve spent $500 on their membership and they need to get $500 back in value, so to speak. And that’s what you’re speaking about from a traditional perspective. That depends on the type of business that you have. If you’re a roofer,

and you get introduced to 10 people in the community or 20 businesses and none of them need a roof, you’re not gonna see a quick return on investment. I just don’t need a roof right now. So we actually talk about three-year investment in the chamber. Our minimum level is $340, so times three, that’s $1,020, just rounded to $1,000.

Brandon Burton (26:36.385)
Right.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (26:52.926)
If you’re not willing to invest $1,000 in your business over a three-year period as a small business, when there are so many other more expensive options, then we actually take it off the table. We suggest that you not get involved and not invest your money at this point in time. And people have actually looked at me and said, what? Well, no, no, no, I want to join the chamber.

I didn’t mean that. And so we’re talking about it as an investment. The second thing is that many chambers of commerce miss an opportunity by welcoming people before they actually join. So we actually encourage people to take a test drive, invite them to multiple events, not turn them away when they come to a second or third event and go, hey,

You gotta pay up if you’re gonna attend our event. No, not that way at all. So our quick wins are engaging them with the right people at the right time and the right place. And if you do that, all of a sudden they feel, yeah, I’m wanted. Nobody wants an email directly to them after an event that they came to and says, thank you for coming to our event. We hope you’ll attend another event.

Brandon Burton (28:16.854)
Yeah

Dave Moravec – Colerain (28:18.814)
Nobody wants that. But if their film number is on their thing, a simple text that said, hey, this is Dave. Thanks for coming to our thing last night. Appreciate it if we can help in any way, give us a holler. That simple. And people go, that’s a person. That’s somebody who’s actually thinking about me. And lastly, this is a good friend of mine, Bob Berg. In fact, I talked to Bob this morning.

He’s written a book called The Go Giver. There are a series of 10 questions that he has that you can ask somebody during your engagement when you’re meeting somebody at a networking event. But the number one question he poses is what would be the ideal referral for your business? And all of a sudden people are now asking themselves,

He’s not telling me about his business. He’s asking me about mine. And so now they can feel engaged by saying, well, a commercial, we’re do 90 % of our work is commercial roofing. And we look for businesses that before they’re actually needing a roof because oftentimes if the roof isn’t repaired properly or taken care of, it leads to damage on the inside of the building. I’m just using an example here.

I go, I’ve got a chamber member who I can introduce you to now, who may be in that situation, maybe not, but all of a sudden they go, well, he’s interested in me because he made that introduction before it was even necessary. At our networking events, people don’t go around the room and tell themselves about, our members don’t stand around and tell about their business. We actually engage the new,

Brandon Burton (30:00.035)
Yeah.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (30:13.766)
attendees to have them tell their story and have them be more attractive before they leave the room. So somebody will come up and say, you got a dog sitting business or you’ve got a craft brewery. We’d love to know more about that. But if they don’t know it because they’re standing in the corner of the room by themselves, shame on us for not allowing that.

Brandon Burton (30:41.9)
Right. Yeah, I think a lot of times these quick wins, don’t need to be that, you know, complete ROI on that, you know, that return of the investment upfront, but being able to get them a feel and a kind of light the path of this is how you will get that return on your investment, you know, by making these connections, by getting to know these people, by getting involved, you know, in a committee of some sort or helping to further the chamber’s mission, you know, in this way.

So there’s, think there’s a variety of different ways that they can feel like there’s a quick win because going back to your, your comment about just being genuine and asking about their business and learning about them, they’re going to realize, okay, Dave’s working for me too. So that’s a, that’s great piece of advice.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (31:31.122)
We also use the individuals in the room to help make that happen. So if there’s somebody that’s new in the room, I might introduce them to somebody who’s just joined the chamber in the last three months and say, hey, Bob, meet Sue. Sue can tell you what her first experiences were better than I can. And then exit stage left.

Brandon Burton (31:53.209)
Yeah.

And I guess, you know, having your whole staff just being aware of anybody who might be new as well. think that would be the worst thing is somebody comes and nobody talks to them. No chamber staff, nobody even addresses them. Chances of them coming back and engaging and getting onto that flywheel is not going to happen. So, very good. Well, Dave, as we start to wrap things up, I wanted to ask for those listening who are trying

to take their chamber up to the next level, what kind of tip or action item might you suggest with them in trying to accomplish that goal?

Dave Moravec – Colerain (32:34.106)
Well, as I mentioned earlier, a funnel of prospective members and chasing them down is for me the least attractive way to grow your Chamber of Commerce. My understanding, and this is a statistic that I was told and it’s to a certain degree proved to be true, is that if a Chamber member joins and in the first year then

drops their chamber membership, just like a gym membership on January 1st and February 1st, go, I’m not going to do that. My understanding in the chamber world is that it’s five years, five years before they’ll consider joining the chamber again. And if that’s the case, then I can call on them every day for the next five years and say, hey, you want to come back? And they would say, no, had a bad experience.

So we want to have that first experience to be strong so that year over year over year, you create a long-term value. And the value add that I will share and the bonus for me in the long-term value proposition of for-profit businesses is that if somebody is happy with membership initially, eventually they’ll sponsor an event. Eventually they’ll become a sustaining sponsor.

Eventually, they’ll become a board member. Eventually, they’ll become a legacy provider to your chamber of commerce. But if you haven’t done the legwork on the front side to build the relationship, none of those things will happen in the proper order. And again, I think the lessons I’ve learned in the SaaS world, selling software solutions, is that if somebody is really attracted to what you’re offering,

The other things that you offer will just naturally happen. You don’t have to upsell. You don’t have to tag them for the, it’ll just naturally happen. We had five sustaining members when I came in. At this point, we’re approaching 30 sustaining sponsors that invest a significantly higher amount than just dues. And that’s because of relationship building and them seeing value in their logo being

Dave Moravec – Colerain (34:59.696)
everywhere and anywhere through the chamber. So that’s my tip for the day, Brandon.

Brandon Burton (35:05.728)
I like that. But, and to your point where somebody drops their membership, it may take up to five years or more for them to consider rejoining. The other side of that coin is if somebody, if you can, you know, provide that ROI, show the value of the chamber, get them in the flywheel. And I think the stat is three years. If you get them in for three years, then the chance of them being life members, like for the life of their business, drastically

increases to like 80 or 90 percent if you can get past that third year hurdle. I think implementing a flywheel is a perfect way of being able to get past that point and be able to have them be ambassadors for you and be promoting the chamber everywhere they go.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (35:53.151)
I would agree with that. And one other point is that negative talk comes from people that you’re gonna tell a negative story 10 times more than you’re gonna tell a positive story. And if you’ve had a negative experience, you’re not attracting others that you know. And somebody says, hey, do you wanna join, or should I join the Chamber of Commerce? Nah, I didn’t really have a very good experience. Well, you wanna have those ambassadors that you were creating on the delight side.

that are telling your story over and over and over again. And what we’re seeing is that those that provide referrals provide multiple referrals. So they’re telling the story far more times than they would tell otherwise.

Brandon Burton (36:34.072)
Yeah, it’s great marketing. I love it. Right. Yeah.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (36:37.212)
And there’s no cost to it. We can talk about that for another day, but there’s no cost associated with it either. You just have to be genuine.

Brandon Burton (36:46.924)
That’s right. Well, Dave, as we look to the future of Chambers of Commerce, I always like to ask, how do you see the future of Chambers and their purpose going forward?

Dave Moravec – Colerain (36:58.578)
Yeah, I think you’ve had Matt Appenzeller on your show and I’ve gotten to know Matt. Okay, you are great. Matt is awesome. And he and I subscribe to the same mindset from this perspective. And what I’ve seen in talking to and I don’t wanna say evaluating, because I’m not an evaluator. I don’t put one here and one there. But as I look at the future of Chambers of Commerce, I think the challenges ifโ€ฆ

Brandon Burton (37:02.648)
Coming up, yeah, he’s coming up, yep.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (37:26.738)
you’re not running the Chamber of Commerce like a true business, you’re putting your Chamber of Commerce at risk. And by that I mean if your expenses are more than your revenue, you’re eventually gonna run out of reserve. If you aren’t planning for tomorrow the way a for-profit business does, when they know that the shelf life of their laptops is gonna be five years, five years from now they’ve gotta have the money available to replace those laptops.

And I think those kinds of concepts are missed oftentimes, number one, because the chamber leader doesn’t know any better. They haven’t been mentored or shown that those things are important. But secondarily, they have boards of directors that close their eyes and ears to the fact that their for-profit businesses have to survive that way and forget that their staff, the people that are running the Chamber of Commerce,

have to be that way. If you’re not increasing your dues, you know, over a period of time, eventually it’s going to come up and catch up with you. And I think that that’s the risk that all of us have is not treating the business, treating the Chamber of Commerce as a business and looking at it as a nonprofit.

Brandon Burton (38:47.608)
Yeah, I think that’s a great piece of advice as well. Not too different from running your household finances. You take those lessons of having healthy balance sheets. Well, Dave, I wanted to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for listeners who may want to reach out and connect with you and learn more about your books or about the flywheel or anything we talked about today. Where would you point them and what would be the best way for them to reach out and connect?

Dave Moravec – Colerain (38:56.734)
Absolutely.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (39:17.298)
Well, I have put in my resignation for the Colerain Chamber of Commerce. So you can reach me for a period of time at president@colerainchamber.org. But you can otherwise find me at DD, Dusty Dave is my nickname, moravec, M-O-R-A-V-E-C-5@gmail.com (ddmoravec5@gmail.com). My phone number 309-838-1947 will get me 24 seven. And I will pick up the phone 24 seven.

Brandon Burton (39:52.679)
There you go. And the books, Amazon, anywhere in particular you’d point them?

Dave Moravec – Colerain (39:57.82)
Yeah. Yeah. You can find them at salesmanagerforrent.com on our media site. Amazon will have them. Look up Echoes and Moravec and I’m the only guy that M-O-R-A-V-E-C with Echoes associated with it. If you like the books, recommend them to others. Write reviews. First time and new authors.

That’s their biggest challenge is having people to review them so that others see them and are attracted to it. So yes, I appreciate that. And yeah, thanks for the plug. I appreciate that.

Brandon Burton (40:37.842)
Absolutely, you bet. It’s my pleasure. But it’s been fun having you on the podcast today. I appreciate you spending your time with us and your experiences and lessons that you’ve learned at leading the Colerain Chamber and just from your business experiences through your career as well. So thank you.

Dave Moravec – Colerain (40:55.432)
Great to be here.


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Retention Strategies with Tonia Stephenson

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Brandon Burton (00:00.92)
Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat podcast. I’m your host, Brandon Burton, and it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community. Today’s guest is a powerful, today’s guest is a powerhouse community leader and economic development, Tanya Stevenson. Since 2018, Tonia has been at the helm of the Burke County Chamber of Commerce as President and CEO where she’s dedicated herself to strengthening businesses and forging meaningful community connections. Her deep roots and chamber work span back to her early career at the High Point and Lorenburg, Scotland County chambers. But Tonia’s commitment to service doesn’t stop there. She’s spent six impactful years as executive director of the Salvation Army Boys and Girls Club in High Point, revitalizing facilities and expanding youth programs and securing stronger financial future for the organization.

Tonia holds a double major in business administration and home furnishings marketing from High Point University. She’s a graduate from the US Chambers Leadership Institute and earned the prestigious CCE designation in 2014. Her leadership has earned accolades like businesswoman of the year and 40 leaders under 40 and multiple chamber honors.

She’s a dedicated board member and passionate community advocate. And when she’s not leading or serving, you may find her hiking a trail or cross stitching a new design or enjoying a weekend getaway with her husband, David. Tonia, we’re excited to have you with us today here on Chamber Chat podcast. I’d love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the Chamber Champions who are out there listening and share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better.

Tonia Stephenson (01:50.776)
Oh, if I share too much about myself, people might think I’m crazy and shouldn’t keep listening. So, yeah, just take that out. You know, when I think about things that are interesting about myself, it really goes back to my personal life and people find this interesting and I found it interesting. Back a long time ago, we won’t tell how many years because I can’t tell anybody I’m 29 if I tell my years.

Brandon Burton (01:55.726)
We can edit, so no.

Tonia Stephenson (02:20.403)
My husband and I got married at the North Carolina Zoo Logical Park. It’s the largest zoo in the world at this point. and people say, you got married at the zoo? it’s like, I’m the only official wedding ever to be held at the zoo. There’s a lot of people have gone out to the zoo and they’ve taken some witnesses and a preacher and gotten married in front of the whatever animals they wanted to. And, but we actually rented the zoo and, got married, had our official.

Big win, 350 guests. We were followed by the national press. We had cameras in our face through the process because all of our local news followed us. And then by the time that we actually got married, it made the national press. So it was a big deal. And everybody, you know, we laugh and joke, and I say this in front of my husband. You people say, why’d you get married to the zoo? And the zoo was a very big part of our courting years.

And we wanted to get married outside and wanted to find a beautiful place. And back then wedding venues were not a dime a dozen like they are now. And I called the zoo and said, hey, I want to get married out here. And they said, you know what? We’d love to do that. That’d be a great marketing tool for us. So we tried it. And the marketing team said, we’ll never again do this. So all these years later, we are the only one that has ever done that. But we have great experiences and beautiful pictures.

Brandon Burton (03:35.084)
Yeah, you broke it.

Tonia Stephenson (03:45.208)
It’s just a great thing to look back on. so, oh, what I was gonna say is I got married there too because all my in-laws were already there. I didn’t have to invite them. So they were in the cages, you know, but they were all there. My husband and I joke about that. And he says that we have good time with it, but it was really a great experience. And I think that says a little bit about me is I love the outdoors. I love animals.

Brandon Burton (03:55.406)
Were they in the cages?

Tonia Stephenson (04:14.517)
I love doing things different. I don’t like to do things like everybody else does it. And so that’s little bit about me.

Brandon Burton (04:24.034)
There you go. That’s cool. I was going to ask why the zoo and all that, but you covered it pretty well. So I’m glad the in-laws were able to be there. That’s important. That’s great.

Tonia Stephenson (04:33.525)
They were all there. Yeah. It was great. And it turned out to be a beautiful day. It was a hot day in June, but it was great. The worst part was having the, poor little best man, the channel 12’s cameras was so close into his face. I was like, bless his heart. He can’t even move without the cameras being right there.

Brandon Burton (04:52.974)
Well, tell us a little bit about the the Burke County Chamber to kind of set the stage for our discussion today. Help give us an idea of the size, staff, scope of work, budget, things like that so we know what kind of chamber you’re coming from.

Tonia Stephenson (05:08.193)
Well, I consider us somewhat of a medium sized chamber. We have 640 members somewhere around there. People in the chamber world, know that changes on a daily basis. And we’ve grown it quite a bit. Since the seven years I’ve been here, we were at 450 seven years ago. So we’ve grown quite a bit through the years and very proud of that. We are located in the foothills of North Carolina.

Brandon Burton (05:18.839)
Right?

Tonia Stephenson (05:35.954)
A lot of people know Hickory and Asheville and we’re somewhat in the center of that and our northwest of Charlotte and our east of Asheville. So great location, big cities around us, but we’re still a small town and we’ve got some great amenities here. Just a great place to live and work. We do serve the full county and it is a big county. It’s amazing. It probably would take two hours to get from one end of the county to the other.

Part of our county is up high elevations and then part of it is east and lower elevations. So we’ve got some mountains here. We have four full-time employees on staff and one contract employee. Our budget’s about a half a million dollars. And it’s just, we continue to grow and we’re excited to be able to serve our community.

Brandon Burton (06:31.17)
Very good. And are you guys, are you strictly chamber? Are you tourism, economic development, strictly chamber? Okay.

Tonia Stephenson (06:35.275)
We are strictly chamber, which I like being that way. know a lot, exactly. I know a lot of chambers have to do with economic development or tourism, but I’m thankful that we can just focus on our members and not have to try to juggle all those balls. Although I admire the people that do.

Brandon Burton (06:40.59)
It allows you to focus on that mission, yeah.

Brandon Burton (07:00.716)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, that definitely. Yeah, yeah, that definitely does help set the stage and the Carolinas are such a beautiful part of the country. So it’s no wonder you’re able to have a thriving chamber there because people want to be there so.

Tonia Stephenson (07:03.287)
but I have great partners.

Tonia Stephenson (07:18.985)
number one in business, three out of the last four years. So we’re very thankful for that.

Brandon Burton (07:27.118)
Well, our topic for conversation today, we’re going to focus most of our discussion around retention. And that’s a topic that every chamber out there should be paying attention to and monitoring, you know, as kind of one of those KPIs, you know, to see how your chambers performing, getting that feedback from your membership, your investors, you know, what is that retention looking like? So we’ll dive in deep on this as soon as we get back from this quick break.

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All right, Tonia, we’re back, as I mentioned. So before the break, we’re diving in today on the topic of retention. I’m sure you have a unique approach. Every chamber looks at different metrics a little differently. But as you look at retention, what is it that you guys really hone in on? And what’s your approach that makes you maybe stand out as a chamber, highlight your wins, and help members stick around for the long term?

Tonia Stephenson (08:25.793)
Yeah, you know, a lot of it, I don’t know if it’s unique. I think it’s, for me, it’s spending the time with our members and spending one-on-one time and making sure our members feel like they are as important as any other member. And that’s real important to me. I know in the chamber world, I’ve heard a lot of my colleagues talk about how they spend a lot of time with their big fish. And I’ve heard, I’ve sat through so manyโ€ฆ

seminars, webinars, trainings on how important it is for us to spend time with the big fish. And I know a lot of people believe that. I do, I do make sure that they feel appreciated. But for me in this chamber and in any chamber that I’ve led, it’s always been about every member is important and every member needs to feel like they are a big fish to us. And so we spend a lot of one-on-one time and

And I sometimes it doesn’t make sense in the budget world, but at the same time in the world of what our members say about us and how they’re talking about us in the community makes a big difference. And so there’s a lot of things that we take time to do that some of you listening may say, she has lost her mind, but maybe I have. It has worked for us and it takes, it does. So here I am.

Brandon Burton (09:44.066)
That’s okay. It takes a special person to lead a chamber. yeah.

Tonia Stephenson (09:50.32)
And our retention rates have really shown it over the years and we’ve had extremely great retention. So some of the process that we go through is when a member joins, the day that they join or the day after they get a thank you, a handwritten thank you note sent from me and welcoming them to the chamber family and being a part of what we do and you you have a team of four now that you didn’t have before.

our membership person and our director of operations person, they personally meet with every new member and sit down with them and find out about their company and what they’re doing and where they need help and where they’re struggling. And we always ask the question, what keeps you up at night? Because we know that what keeps them up at night is what we can do for them and hopefully help them in those ways. Our membership person sends a welcome email and in that welcome email, it explains all the tools that

the digital tools that they have that they can sign on into our member portal and that they can put all the information in there if they have any problems. She sits down with them and like walks them through it. There’s a welcome post on all of our social media that goes up within the few days that they have joined and that member post tells about their company. It thanks them for being a part of the community.

It has their logo in there. It has a link to their website and of course, tagging them on that site as well. So then when it comes to three months that they’ve been a member, our membership person calls them and checks in on them, sees what’s going on, how are things going. At six months, our board member calls them and checks on them and see how they’re doing and what we can do for them. And then at nine months, they get another call.

and just checking in. When they renew, they always get posts out on our social media so that they can know that not just them joining means a lot, but them sticking with us means a lot as well, and that we want to continue to give them the promotions that they have. Promotions is really big for us. Most of our members are small businesses that need that promotion.

Tonia Stephenson (12:10.647)
A lot of them, can’t afford big ads and radio. They can’t afford big ads on TV. We don’t have local TV here, so that’s not even an option for our folks. So promotions is big. we do a lot of promotions through, one thing we’re doing today is Friday. And so T-shirt Friday is something we do and we promote our members. So today we’ll spend our entire, most of our entire day out going and talking to our members.

The t-shirt we have on is one of our members and that member gets constant promotions throughout the day So everywhere we go we’re taking that person with us and the member will get anywhere from usually about 20 20 posts today on that on that one member and then of course there that’ll be 20 members that will get Various shout outs throughout the day and promoting whatever’s going on. We always try to be

aware of events that are coming up. So, you know, it might be that we’ll go to somewhere and say, hey, don’t forget they’re having this big sale this weekend, come out and shop or the festival’s happening this weekend, come out and see them at the festival. So we’re hitting as many people as we can with that, which people love that. And now every time I go into the bank on Fridays, they want their picture taken because they know that that’s something we do. And I was like, you know, I can’t get y’all every Friday.

Brandon Burton (13:35.522)
and it’ll get shared. They’re working the system, they know.

Tonia Stephenson (13:38.454)
But the bankers love it. They’re working, yeah, that’s right. And so that’s something we have a lot of fun with. And it does take a lot of time, but our members love it and they know that they’re being cared for and that they’re being promoted. And a lot of them have said, hey, I’ve gotten business. I’ve gotten a lot of business from that little thing. We feel like it’s a little thing for them, it’s big.

In addition to that, quarterly we actually get all of our ambassadors together and we get on a trolley and we go out and visit about 16 members and one day we take them gifts. We call it Surprise Patrol. And so we get out and we go into a business and we say, surprise, we’re all here. we, you usually 10, 15 people showing up to your business on a trolley is sort of shocking. And all the ambassadors will bring a gift from their business to that member.

and it’s all about saying thank you for your membership and we appreciate you. And we’re not asking for any on any of these things. We’re not asking for money. We’re not asking to support anything. We’re not reminding them that they owe dues or anything. It’s all about, we appreciate your membership and appreciate you and wanna thank you. And then of course, on Surprise Patrol, they get gifts as well. So that’s always a lot of fun days and all of.

Brandon Burton (14:59.79)
So about how many members are you guys able to visit on one of those surprise patrol visits? Wow.

Tonia Stephenson (15:04.567)
We get about 16 in a day. So we hit quite a bit and we’re promoting our ambassador members as well. So we got the 16 members that we’re visiting, but then there’s 10, 15 members who are ambassadors, who their businesses are getting promoted as well. So 30, 35 businesses are getting promoted in that day. And it’s just a fun day and a great time toโ€ฆ

show appreciation and remind people that we’re here and we’re supporting them and helping them any way we can. It’s always interesting because after every Surprise Patrol, I have members say, hey, how do I get on that list? And I was like, well, we’ll put you on the list for the next time. So it’s a lot of fun. Once a year, our ambassadors and our board and the staff all spend a week delivering our new directories.

We call that operation. Thank you. It’s it’s a program that’s been around for a long time in chambers, but it kind of went away. I’ve always had worked in operation. Thank you just because I think it’s so important. So we we have some type of gift that we give. It’s a small gift and it’s usually a got a corny saying on it. Something like this last year we gave payday payday candy bars out and it said every day is a payday with you as a member of the chamber so.

It’s cute and corny, but people love it. They love seeing us come because again, we’re not there asking for anything. We’re just there to say hello, say thank you. We take pictures throughout the day, post them on our website. mean, post them on all our social media sites. So they’re continually getting thanked and they’re continually getting promoted through these things. And so they’re all real important to us.

And then in addition, you know, we do all those calls that the staff does and then the board does at six months, but our ambassadors are making personal phone calls to our members as well. So the ambassadors are making five to 10 phone calls a month on our members just to say, hey, you know, is there anything we can do? Check in on you. What’s going on with you? What can we do? And so that’s really helpful because a lot of times our ambassadors learn things about our members that we don’t know and that

Tonia Stephenson (17:22.827)
gives us an opportunity to know and it’s that gives us 25 more people out there calling on members and checking in on them that we can’t, you people can’t get to all of them. And so they really helpful with that. And then there’s little things that we will remember and do that. I don’t think that is normal in the world of of anywhere. But for me, you know, I look at them, our members as customers, you know, we.

If I hear that there’s gonna be a ball game, I tell you make a note and I’ll call and say, hey, did little Johnny win his ball game? And that means a lot to them. Or I’ll shoot a note and say, hey, I was thinking about you. We do a lot of notes about testing, if we got some kind of medical issue, we have birthdays listed and we send personal birthday cards, handwritten notes, we send sympathy cards.

We spend a lot of time on these types of things and some people might say, well, that’s just a waste of time in the business world, but it is not waste of time. I’ve had people that, like I have one gentleman who said something about his, he had knee replacement recent, I mean, he had knee replacement a few years ago, but recently he said, you know, that was the sweetest card I got from y’all. And he’s like, it was the best one I got from, you know, it was from y’all.

Brandon Burton (18:41.474)
Wow.

Tonia Stephenson (18:42.057)
And he’s like, who would have thought that my chamber membership would have gotten me thoughts during my surgery? And so we really try to watch out for those little things. And we watch social media closely to see that they’re posting, that they’ve got issues or concerns. Then we reach out and let them know that we’re there to help them and support them through that, throughout whatever that they’re going through, or to celebrate with them when it’s good stuff.

and they remember that we remember those types of things.

Brandon Burton (19:12.686)
Yeah. So with these, uh, with the birthday cards and sympathy cards, I can see how that could get, you know, a little arduous, you know, to try to get all these, uh, cards out. So how do you, how do you manage that? Is it, are you focusing on the primary rep for each business or how deep do you go with, you know, if they’ve got three or four contacts as a, with their membership, I don’t, how do you kind of filter who or how you’re able to send, um,

those kind of cards too.

Tonia Stephenson (19:43.728)
We really don’t filter. Yeah, we really don’t filter. If we know it, we send it. And if they’re a member, we don’t really filter. yes, takes some time, but it’s not overwhelming amount of time. And it takes five minutes to fill out a card and stick it in the mail.

I usually fill it out first and sign it from your Burke County Chamber family and then write a little personal note for me. then everybody passes around, they sign a little note and off it goes. it brings return on investment of 10 minutes of time maybe and 60 cents stamp or however much they are now.

Brandon Burton (20:38.86)
Yeah, by the time this comes out, the stamps will be more.

Tonia Stephenson (20:39.447)
$4 car, mean, it’s reallyโ€ฆ

Well, that’s true. The stamps go up every day, it really has. you know, and it might seem like it’s arduous, but it hasn’t been. It hasn’t been. It could get that way. don’t know. But, you we just try to keep up with the best we can. And when we hear things that we miss, it’s like, whoa, we’re so sorry that we didn’t know that. And people, nobody’s ever fought at us for it or anything. So, so no, there’s not really any filter on it. If we know it and

we can do something to at least acknowledge and know that people will, for people to know that we care that we do that.

Brandon Burton (21:18.978)
Yeah. So there’s a couple things that you had touched on I wanted to circle back with and just maybe get a little bit more information. So one is with the onboarding of new members. You talked about different staff members meeting with the new members and kind of doing the orientation onboarding. Are these members coming to the chamber office? Are they going to visit these businesses at their location? Is it a mixture of both? How do you try to schedule that?

Tonia Stephenson (21:29.132)
Mm-hmm.

Tonia Stephenson (21:45.6)
It’s a mixture. A lot of people want to come to the office and see our office and meet the whole team and we’re a great location. So a lot of them happen at the chamber, but then a lot of the members say, come see my place and come take a tour or whatever. So it’s really a mixture. And for the member meetings, have where tier dues. So we have bronze, silver, gold, platinum and titanium.

Brandon Burton (22:05.934)
That’s good.

Tonia Stephenson (22:15.415)
Bronze members, our membership team takes care of it, but if it’s Silver and above, I’ll actually have that member meeting with them as well, just so that they know who I am and that we all care about. I we all care about them regardless, but I do take the time to spend time with the Silver and above members when they’re first joining.

Brandon Burton (22:34.124)
Yeah, yeah, that’s good. So I really liked what you mentioned about T-shirt Fridays and being able to wear a T-shirt of different businesses in your community, different members and going out and taking pictures and posting them. Do members enroll in that? Do you proactively reach out and say, hey, do you want to send us a T-shirt and be included in the next T-shirt Friday or how does that program work?

Tonia Stephenson (23:00.031)
The only thing we have to do is have a t-shirt Friday and we end up with more t-shirts. I don’t know how many. I have quite a collection. Well, we’re not quite there, but yeah, we have quite a collection. That’s for sure. So every time we go out, typically I will come back with four shirts. And so we don’t really, we don’t charge for that, which, you know, we kind of talked about, it’s like we might all.

Brandon Burton (23:04.389)
Right. I can imagine what your closet looks like, right?

600 different t-shirts with logos on it

Tonia Stephenson (23:28.607)
start charging for this program. But we have some great events and we do fine with other things. And so far we’ve not charged because that way all sides of our members can participate. Nobody feels like that they’re really left out. And so we say the only charge for this program for T-shirt Friday is the cost of four T-shirts and you just provide us your shirts and we’ll wear them on that Friday.

Brandon Burton (23:30.147)
Yeah.

Tonia Stephenson (23:56.002)
So we start out that morning, we take a group shot of all of us in our shirts and what’s really cute is sometimes there’s stuff on the back. So we have to turn around and have pictures of our backs so that we get the information on there. And our initial post out is the four of us in our shirts and we tell a little bit about the company and we give the company’s website address and how to get in touch with the people and what their specialties are. And then,

From there, it’s usually individual selfies with our members or the group of members. Because we really want to catch a lot of people and sometimes we can’t catch them open. So sometimes we might be out by a sign and say, you know, telling about some company. Or sometimes we’re on the side of the road taking pictures and people are looking at us like we’re crazy. Recently, we have a new bank who’s building a new location. And so recently I stopped at the corner.

Brandon Burton (24:38.998)
Yeah.

Tonia Stephenson (24:52.119)
where there’s like, you know, basically like rubbish, you know, in this big, big parking lot right now, but they’ve got a beautiful plan and design that they’re getting ready to build. So here I am by the construction fence, taking a selfie with the picture of the bank that’s coming. And people just looked at me like I was idiot or they blow their horns and I was like, hi, yeah, it’s just me taking a selfie with the pit, know. There really is a purpose here.

Brandon Burton (25:13.186)
Yeah.

Brandon Burton (25:19.042)
Follow us on Facebook, right?

Tonia Stephenson (25:22.199)
It’s like, yes, I might be crazy and do things differently, but here we are taking a picture with the fence. But it’s really, it was a good promotion because a lot of people didn’t know that that’s what was going on that location or they hadn’t been driven by there to see what the beautiful rendition looks like. And so it’s just aboutโ€ฆ

just about promoting what’s going on in the membership and promoting the members and what they’re doing and what their services are, what their product is.

Brandon Burton (25:53.058)
Yeah. So the other thing I wanted to ask about is you mentioned staff and ambassadors going out to deliver your annual directories. You had a name for it. Operation Thank You. So with Operation Thank You, I mean, you get, I guess, roughly about 30 people going out in the community to make these personal interactions, these personal deliveries. that sound about right? About 25 ambassadors and staff?

Tonia Stephenson (26:00.504)
Operation thank you.

Tonia Stephenson (26:17.783)
about 50 people. We have between 20 and 25 ambassadors. I have 20 board members, four staff, and then sometimes we recruit spouses and other people. So usually 50 or 60 people will help us out throughout the week. We do it in half days, we do it in teams of two so that it’s easier if you drive up to a location, somebody jumps out and delivers and jumps back in.

Brandon Burton (26:25.174)
And the board, okay. Yeah.

Tonia Stephenson (26:45.495)
Of course, sometimes we end up sending out to salespeople and they’re parking in every parking lot and introducing themselves to every person and having long conversations. And I’m like, guys, you’re not getting the books delivered if you’re doing that, but they’re doing their jobs. So, you know, I’m just thankful that they might get four delivered in the morning time, typically you can get 30 to 50 delivered in the morning and again in the afternoon.

Brandon Burton (26:57.228)
Right? Like I’m multitasking, yeah.

Tonia Stephenson (27:14.845)
if you get in and get out and keep moving.

Brandon Burton (27:17.9)
Yeah, yeah. Now I really like that plan and it’s a great way to have a for sure like an annual touch point with each member as you as you get those delivered and hand delivered. It goes a long ways with the payday bar or whatever that gift is so that’s awesome.

Tonia Stephenson (27:34.284)
Yeah. Well, when I was in, back in my day, when I was doing membership and learning the role and learning about chambers and figuring things out and sometimes, and the high point chamber that I was at for many years, we were quite a large chamber and, and it was hard to get to all of our members and to, to, to touch them throughout the year. And so a lot of times they only heard from us, was when they got their renewal notice and,

And I don’t know how many times I’d hear, it’s like, all you want is my money and you don’t really care about it. And even as a membership person, it broke my heart and I’ve tried to do my best to not, for that not to be the way it was. And our whole team, we all had a great heart about it, but we had 1300 members and there were six of us and still again, you just can’t get to everybody.

As I’ve learned throughout the years, I really don’t ever want a member say that the only time I hear from you is my renewal notice. And, and if, if that’s the only time they’ve heard from us, then shame on us. And, and so that’s what, and you know, my marketing person can say, but look at the hits that they get on our website, regardless of they hear from us, you know, they got these hits on the website. They got, no, I want them to hear from us. I want them to know. Yeah.

Brandon Burton (28:57.134)
It’s got to be meaningful to them, right?

Tonia Stephenson (29:00.511)
I want it to be personal for them. Their business is very personal, know, especially our small business owners. Some of our small business owners has their entire life savings wrapped up in that business. And when I say that they are part of the chamber family, when I say that the four of us are part of their team, I want them to feel it and I want them to know it. And I want them to, when they’re losing sleep at night, I want them to pick up the phone and say, here’s my troubles. And

We go to work to try to figure out what those troubles are. If they don’t ever see us, they don’t ever hear from us and they don’t, and if we are nothing but the email that comes in that says, hey, here’s your dues, they’re not gonna do that. And then when they get that email from the dues, they say, why do I need to pay this? And I get that, because I mean, money’s tight a lot of times. And so I wanna give them a reason that they say, I can’t afford not to pay this. And thatโ€ฆ

That’s our goal with every phone call, with every visit, with every post we put out. That’s our goal is for them to know that they need us.

Brandon Burton (30:06.434)
Yeah. Well, I love all these touch points. I love the recognition. I love being able to show the member value to the chamber. These are all, I’m going to call them tactics or strategies, but that kind of cheapens it. I mean, it really is showing that you genuinely care about these individuals, these businesses and their success. I don’t think we can have a discussion about retention without me asking, can you share what your retention rates look like?

Tonia Stephenson (30:36.513)
We’re typically between 92 to 94%. So we typically lose members because they’ve moved or they’ve closed. And sometimes with, I don’t know if other chambers are having this, but over the last five, seven years, banks, because corporate says they’re not gonna be a member. Makes me so mad.

Brandon Burton (30:41.526)
something to celebrate.

Brandon Burton (31:00.94)
Yep. Yep. Or Walmart, we’ve been seeing that. So, yeah.

Tonia Stephenson (31:05.892)
So far, Walmart’s a really good member for us, so I hope that I don’t see that from them.

Brandon Burton (31:08.78)
That’s good. Hopefully they hang on. Yeah. Well, as we begin to wrap up, but I’d like to see whether it’s based on our discussion or any other thoughts for the chambers listening who want to take their organization up to the next level. What kind of tip or strategy would you share with them and trying to accomplish that goal?

Tonia Stephenson (31:30.611)
One thing that I have always done and is real important to me and I think your podcast fits right in with this and I think it’s great that we have this as a resource. I’ve always had a mentor or multiple mentors. I’ve always found my neighboring chambers and made friends with them and made sure that they’re some of my closest friends.

and colleagues and somebody I could call on. So when I moved here, that was the first thing I did was look up my neighboring chambers and introduce myself, except for I had two that was precious and they reached out to me before I could get to them. And I have a neighboring county to the west that she and I call each other our chamber sisters because we just know that we’re there for each other.

So I think having mentors is very important and talking to other chambers and not just chamber mentors, but I think just having mentors in general, especially if there’s something that you’re not good at and you see it in somebody else, it’s great to spend time with that person and say, hey, can we go to lunch and just learn from that person, watch them. And then I think being a mentor to others is real important. And I know for me,

I’ve taken on several younger chamber professionals and spent time with them and tried to help them. And every time I’ve done that with the intentions of me trying to help them and help them learn and grow, I’ve found that I’ve learned and grown just as much through the process of being a mentor as I have having mentors. So I think that that’s just so important. You can learn so much, and especially if you’ll learn it with the right attitude and then go back and try to apply things that.

Brandon Burton (33:07.008)
Right. Yeah, it’s helpful.

Tonia Stephenson (33:21.547)
that makes sense. Of course, we all hear things and learn things all the time and it’s like, well, that would be great, but there’s no way I can put that on my plate. No, there’s no way. But to be intentional with trying to really, especially in areas where you know that you need to grow, learn and try to grow as much as you can in those areas.

Brandon Burton (33:39.18)
Yeah, I think that’s a great piece of advice. I like asking everyone I have on the show, as we look to the future of Chambers of Commerce, how do you see the future of Chambers and their purpose going forward?

Tonia Stephenson (33:51.416)
That’s a very interesting topic because I found that in during COVID times, we had to really think about chambers and what we were doing and how we did things. And we had to really pivot and change a lot of our ways of thinking to stay relevant. And I think that’s so important in the chamber world is that we stay relevant. And I think that there was a time at least for the chambers that I was working with that

it was maybe hard for us to be relevant, when some technology seems to have taken over a lot of what we traditionally did in the past. And so I think for us to update our what we’re doing and always look for new ways to do things and new ways to present ourselves and being relevant in the business community and being on top of what the business community needs and individuals need and taking care of those things are, there’s just.

So important. I think that it’s real important that chambers be chambers and work with businesses and know that we are here for business community. We are business association. We’re not a social group. We are not here to everybody socialize and have a good time, but we are here to grow business and help our businesses in whichever way that they need. Being a voice for the business. Our chambers very active in governmental affairs, so.

That’s one thing that sets us apart is we are, I always say if the business community was a body, stick figures all I can do, we would be the mouthpiece of that body. And we got to be the mouthpiece for our businesses because we are the group that is gonna be standing up for our businesses and making sure that our businesses are heard. And that’s what our role is.

But always being able to, always looking for ways to change and grow is just real important and staying relevant I think is so important.

Brandon Burton (35:51.98)
I’d be curious how you would label the rest of the body parts, but that’s okay. Well, that’s a discussion for another time. but this has been great having you on the show. I appreciate these tactics, these ideas, these ways of showing your care for your members to really nurture those relationships. I wanted to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for listeners who may want to reach out and connect with you maybe as a mentor.

Tonia Stephenson (35:58.488)
I’ve never really thought about the rest of the body, so I’d have to think about that.

Brandon Burton (36:21.954)
or just to get ideas of how you’re doing things, what would be the best way for them to reach out and connect with you?

Tonia Stephenson (36:28.161)
Sure, I appreciate the opportunity. First podcast I’ve done, so hey, this might be new thing for me. But yes, Burke County Chamber of Commerce, I’ll actually give my cell phone number because reaching me at the office is sometimes very hard. My cell phone number is 336-689-5438. And you can email me at T. Stevenson, it’s tstephenson@burkecounty.org.

So email me or call me or text me either way. I’m happy to always help out fellow chamber people when I can and talk to fellow chamber people. I love learning from them. So be happy to talk to anyone.

Brandon Burton (37:15.66)
That’s perfect. We will get that in our show notes to make it nice and easy. But again, this has been great having you on the show. Thank you for setting aside some time to be with us and share these insights. I think it provided a ton of value for our listeners today. So thank you. Thank you a lot.

Tonia Stephenson (37:30.935)
Thank you, I appreciate you.


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Membership Value & ROI with Joe Venhuizen

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Brandon Burton (00:17)
Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your host, Brandon Burton, and it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community. Our guest for this episode is Joe Venhuizen. Joe is the Vice President of Membership and Resource Development for Envision Greater Fond du Lac. Envision is a combined chamber EDO.

Serving the greater Fond du Lac County in Wisconsin, Joe has spent nine years in the industry working in membership sales, program coordination, government affairs, and executive leadership. Joe earned his IOM certificate to the U.S. Chamber in 2025. He is a husband and a father to three boys and an active member of his local church.

Joe, I’m excited to have you with us today here on Chamber Chat podcast. I’d love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the Chamber Champions who are out there listening and to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better.

Joe Venhuizen (01:18)
Sure. Well,

it is a pleasure to be here. So thank you for having me on and look forward to a good discussion. I never shy away from the chance to discuss the industry. It’s one of my favorite things to do and especially with people who actually understand it. You know, I imagine you can be a bit of a bore at Thanksgiving. That’s what I come off. know, people just kind of go, well, you work for the government, don’t you? Or you know, there’s not an understanding of where we are and what we

we do. And so to talk to people who live this, it really energizes me. So yes, my name is Joe. been, I’ve lived in this area of East Central Wisconsin. That’s where I grew up. Aside from education and a couple things that brought me out of the area, I have always been here. So I grew up on a, tell me if you heard this before, I’m a dairy farm kid from Wisconsin. So family farm,

Brandon Burton (02:09)
Are

there many of those? No. Just kidding.

Joe Venhuizen (02:10)
Yeah, it’s fitting the mold here. I’m a Packer fan. I’m wearing the gear here. I’m excited for Sunday to take on the Lions. But

I do bleed green and gold in Wisconsin. I love where I’m from. But I’ve been in this industry nine years. And I have no plans of going anywhere. I see nothing but exciting challenges in my future doing what we do.

You wanted something interesting. something interesting. I’ll tell you this year, earlier this year, I became an official small business owner myself. And that sounds pretty cool. The reality is it’s not that cool. But I did get an LLC. And I formalized under an LLC some things that I’ve been doing for years, which is improv comedy.

Brandon Burton (02:44)
Okay.

Joe Venhuizen (02:59)
So I now have an official business for my improv troupe and we do short form sketch comedy for corporate parties and gatherings and fundraisers and things. So something that I’ve enjoyed doing for many years.

Brandon Burton (03:13)
That’s very cool. So I I love asking that question. I never would have known that about you if I didn’t ask for the interesting fact about yourself. So that’s cool. You’ll have to put up your tour schedule here at the end. yeah. Yeah. That’s right. That’s fantastic.

Joe Venhuizen (03:22)
Here you go.

Yeah, Private bookings only, you know, pay for travel costs. I’m happy to, you know, advertise it on your podcast here.

Brandon Burton (03:37)
I know what you mean about Thanksgiving dinner being the board. When people find out I have a podcast, they’re like, โ“ that’s so cool. What’s it about? it’s chambers of commerce. Like, what? Yeah, so yeah. Well, tell us a little bit about your chamber. Just give us an idea what Envision Greater Fond du Lac has to offer, size, staff, scope of work, budget, just to set the stage for our discussion today.

Joe Venhuizen (03:44)
Yeah.

Yeah,

we’re all in about a $2 million organization. We are a combined Chamber of Commerce and Economic Development organization. That combination happened in 2017. So I joined the industry and the organization before the merger. So I was hired as a Chamber membership and program person. Within my first year, we had the merger that brought together the Chamber and the Economic Development.

We serve a county that’s roughly a hundred thousand population. We are in the county seat and โ“ most of our membership base is in the county seat, which is the city of Fond du Lac. But Fond du Lac County has three cities and various villages and townships. It’s pretty rural. Our big industries here are agriculture and manufacturing. The congressional district in which we sit, the Wisconsin sixth

congressional district is the leading manufacturing district in the country. So we have, we are home to the world headquarters of Mercury Marine, which is the leading producer of marine outboard motors. And there’s a โ“ hefty supply chain with that and neighboring in the region, we have quite a few manufacturing titans in that industry. So that’s a lot of who we service. And then of course, agriculture and

and your standard ground of the mill, all the different industries that Chambers serve. So we have experienced the pains and the joys of merging those two organizations and what it takes to create a new brand and to really have the inner working between servicing existing business needs through Chamber of Commerce services and advocacy and also still working.

under the same strategic plan intent on economic development and business attraction retention and entrepreneurship and workforce development. So it’s been, it’s been very, very good. I always advocate that more organizations look at these opportunities seriously and check egos and really consider what’s best for the business community that you serve. Because a lot of times there is duplicity and there’s

know, competition for resources that it took quite a while for our organizations at that time to make this leap of faith to do this together. But now standing and looking back eight years later, it’s definitely been a success.

Brandon Burton (06:21)
Yeah, that’s great. So how many staff do you guys have between the combined organization? Okay.

Joe Venhuizen (06:26)
We’re at about 14 total. And my role oversees our chamber

operations, and that’s โ“ a team of about four of us. And then there’s operations. We have one CEO, obviously, my boss. And then our economic development and workforce development team forms the other pillar.

Brandon Burton (06:45)
Very good. Yeah, that’s super helpful for us to just understand where you’re coming from as we enter into our discussion today. So we’ll focus the majority of our conversation on the topic of membership value and ROI, which I know it can be a hot topic for pretty much any chamber out there. So I’m excited to dive into that topic and to get your feedback and your experience on this as soon as we get back from this quick break.

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All right Joe we’re back so as I mentioned before the break today we’re talking about membership value and ROI How do we express that to members potential members? I’ve shared before on the podcast my background is in chamber publishing so Oftentimes I’m interacting with chamber members as a third party and They feel like they can open up to me in that in those scenarios

and they’ll be honest, you know, I don’t feel like I get anything out of my chamber. don’t see, you know, I paid membership dues and I never heard from the chamber again, you those sort of things. So how do you approach expressing membership value and ROI as you interact with your members and potential members?

Joe Venhuizen (09:53)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, if any of your listeners have the right answer on this, you know, in 10 seconds, please chime in. But this is going to constantly be the measure that we use for ourselves is how well are we delivering value or communicating value. One of the things that’s been helpful for me in years of doing this, in annual renewal cycles and understanding the types of members who come and go and then those who stay and why they stay.

is really the way, the type of mindset that a member brings to the organization. The reason for joining is as important to understand at the time that you are interacting with a new member as the way you communicate ongoing. Because if you understand the type of member and the type of value they’re looking for, you can understand

whether they’re going to be long-term or whether this is going to be a, I’m in it for now for me. And then when the me part isn’t working, I’m out. We have done a decent amount of effort recently at Envision in changing some of our language and our materials to reflect more of a fundraising or investor mindset than a member mindset.

And where we are focusing a lot of effort is this getting into a mindset of a long-term relationship, not that there’s a sort of knee-jerk reaction that’s asked for on an annual basis. Did I feel like this year I did enough to get value that I can write one more check, but to really start the relationship off from the bat of this is a movement?

that you’re joining for the long term. And there will be peaks and valleys. There will be times when you need more attention from the business community and the services we offer. And there will be times when you’re off and running the business. But that doesn’t mean that we’re going to be stopping and starting and breaking off relationship. This is both of us working towards success in this region together for the long term.

Brandon Burton (12:11)
Yeah, so years ago I had a friend of mine, he’s a realtor, he reached out to me, he had moved to a new community.

He’s like, Brandon, should I join my local chamber? He’s like, I know you do this podcast about chambers. Should I join my local chamber? And of course, my, my, you know, knee jerk reactions, of course, you know, but I was a little more measured. My, depends, you know, what are you trying to do? What, like, what’s the mission of the chamber there in your community? What kind of committees do they have? How can you get involved? Like, what do you want this to do for your business? It’s not just that.

that magic bullet where you pay an annual membership due and all of a sudden your business is thriving, right? Right. So very much, going back to your, you know, your thought about figuring out the why, why are they joining and what are they trying to get out of it. That’ll help guide those conversations. My thought is going towards how about those members that need to justify their membership to somebody higher.

Joe Venhuizen (12:53)
Yeah, all your problems are solved.

Brandon Burton (13:15)
you know, a regional manager or somebody at corporate or, know, something like that. How do you have those kinds of conversations and help them to, to recognize what the chamber does for them so they can continue that conversation with those that they answer to? Right.

Joe Venhuizen (13:17)
Yeah.

Yeah, that’s a tough one because my answer is almost always, well, who do I need to be in the room with? Because

let’s get to the naysayer, the person who is sort of just evaluating this on paper and not really in the context of a conversation or a true understanding. So those can be really difficult, getting through those local

folks on the ground who say, I got to run it up the chain of command and go, well, let me help you. Let me be part of that conversation. It’s often a good thing. But I think that there’s always mindset shift. And in those critical kind of crucial conversations of, are we valuable enough to use

expense on, right, to invest in. I think that that’s the opportunity to communicate differently. It’s not the time to rattle off the benefits menu, you know, that, well, we do this, we do this, we have all this. It’s really, when you’re in those conversations, it’s really opportunity to pause and to say, what are your goals? You know, what is it that you want to accomplish? And

really get the playbook because people will teach you how to sell them. And when you’re able to get them to communicate, well, here’s what I’m looking for. So your realtor friend, you know, looking for connections in a new area, I just want to meet new people, right? Well, that’s easy. You know, here’s the things, you know, but what your realtor friend may not care about is

all of the work we do with the local school districts in bridging the gap between local industry and future workforce. And, you know, that might be a huge part of what we do. It doesn’t matter to me. Right. So don’t spend any time talking about that because I’m lost. I don’t care. You can fundraise that from other sources. Here’s my problem that I’m looking to solve through your organization. So you need to get the keys to how to sell and you get that from the member who’s considering that value.

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Brandon Burton (15:16)
Right.

Yeah, I guess I’m thinking of those members that they’ve they’ve joined maybe they’ve been a member for a year or two.

Joe Venhuizen (15:38)
.

Brandon Burton (15:41)
And because so many businesses now are operating off of data, which we preach to chambers too, Collect data, make data-informed decisions. they collect the data. They’re looking at their books. And they’re like, OK, justify this to me. How does this make sense? And like you said, who do I need to talk to to help relay the value? I think that’s key. โ“

Joe Venhuizen (15:54)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

We’ve got to tell stories

really too, Brandon. We have to be able to communicate our wins and then how they apply. you know, I think we get very head down in the chamber industry on, you know, we have this annual schedule of events and monthly schedule of events and, you know, this long list of to-dos and there’s a lot of whirlwind there. But when we get significant wins for the community,

those you just can’t move on from those to the next event. You have to be constantly reminding, sometimes ad nauseam, like, here’s what we accomplished. And I’ve talked, you know, it’s eight years post-merger for our organization, but I don’t want anybody in our community to forget how significant that was. And for people who are maybe newer in the business community here, they might not know any better or any different.

But I like to remind them of what life was like before the merger and how significant just being here and being an efficient organization is. And that goes down to resources. Your resources invested in this organization are maximized much more than what they were previously because of this big win. You could have been getting much less value because you’d been writing two checks to two organizations that were both trying to do the same thing. Now we’re doing it all here.

So it’s one example, but eight years later, I can still communicate that to certain businesses who are legacy businesses who’ve been here a while that, know, yeah, you’re right, you’re right. This could be a lot. You the other thing is any time you have advocacy wins, any time that you’ve helped with a business expansion, relocation, an entrepreneur startup, any time the Chamber’s been involved, even, you know, advocating for an infrastructure change that’s small.

I it was Pat McGoy, who’s a long time, know, titan in the chamber industry, tells kind of an anecdote about if the chamber advocates for a stop sign, use that one project, right? Just one stop sign and then try to put numbers to it. So for the business that’s right there, what does this mean for you? So if that one, you know, stop sign,

leads to, and I can’t remember how in this example, but if it leads to more impressions or more traffic that is stopped at your business with visibility, by the numbers, is that 1 % more? that 10 % more? And then what does that mean for your bottom line? So for your million dollar industry, what’s 1 % of that? And then how do you quantify the results of advocacy wins?

I haven’t done a lot of that, but that was something that made me think a lot. Anytime that you have a, you know, a business park expansion or a win on your main street. For example, we advocated for highway expansion that tied our community to the county to the east. And by expanding that road from two lanes to four lanes, naturally it’s much safer. It’s much more efficient for.

Um, you know, for daily drivers, also for the, you know, businesses and freight over the road. Um, there’s a way that you can communicate that to businesses of, different industries that this is valuable and it wouldn’t have happened without our advocacy. So, you know, trying to get them out of this mindset of like, okay, the only thing that matters is customers that walk through my door and go, no, no, no,

It’s not the only thing that matters because that’s influenced by a lot of different factors. And here’s the way that we’re pulling levers on those factors.

Brandon Burton (19:32)
Yeah, I love that. And just the whole idea of the value of being able to tell the story, whether it’s talking about the merger or the recent advocacy wins.

Joe Venhuizen (19:35)
Thank

Brandon Burton (19:42)
I mean, I think every chamber out there is going to have at least a healthy handful of examples of just individual members who have been members, you know, the whole time that their business has been around and, you know, why they stick with it, why they, you know, wins that they’ve seen as the chambers been able to be influential in their business to, again, help increase that bottom line. So being able to kind of create a storybook of sorts that you can go back to and pull from and

Joe Venhuizen (19:57)
Mm-hmm.

Brandon Burton (20:11)
Depending on what the scenario is who the person is you’re talking to to pull from these stories these experiences and say well this is how it worked for ABC business and You know, it’s similar to yours So I actually I had an experience just yesterday with a business owner who was new to this community and She had been a business owner in a previous community for a long time

like 30 years, she had a retail shop and she just moved to this new community, opened a new business. And she said, you know, in my last community, I was a chamber member. And after so many years, I stopped because, know, whatever the reason is, as you come across somebody like that, obviously they had an experience, they gave it a try. It was a different chamber, different community, different state even.

How can you help build the trust for them to give your chamber a chance to be able to help their business? Is there a way of trying to save that or to help them recognize the value? I’m sure the storytelling comes back into that, but how would you approach a situation like that?

Joe Venhuizen (21:05)
Thank you.

Well,

you have to remind people that every chamber is a unique and different organization. And when you have folks that bring past experiences.

It’s just hard to compare apples and oranges sometimes. But what I try to โ“ remember is, and there are examples of this in my years in the industry, that a really good practice to get into is to invite your critics. Invite your critics to dinner. Some of the best volunteers or board members

that we’ve recruited have been those who have been trying to drop, right? They’re trying to leave. saying, you’re not valuable. I don’t get anything out of this relationship. And instead of writing them off and saying, you just don’t get it. You’re not worth it. You weren’t investing that much anyway. If you really take the time to swallow the pride, the ego, you go, know what? You’re probably right. Let’s talk about that. Why don’t you come in?

I had a volunteer, right, sorry, I had a โ“ member of our young professionals organization who after one year hadn’t gotten outreach. We really did fail her. She hadn’t gotten outreach or hadn’t attended an event, didn’t feel like, you know, she belonged. At the time of renewal, she could have just not said anything, but she took the time to write me an email, a scathing email, right, a scathing critique on her way out the door.

Brandon Burton (22:40)
That says something. Yeah.

Joe Venhuizen (22:43)
You guys failed. This was horrible. And again, I could have pitched it in the trash and said, okay, or I could have done the halfway, which is, yeah, I guess we really did kind of screw up. Shoot, that’s too bad. But I went one step further and said, sounds like you’d be a great member of our membership outreach committee. You’ve identified a real need in this organization and we need leaders and it sounds like you could do it. And today,

Brandon Burton (23:04)
I love it.

Joe Venhuizen (23:10)
She’s the chairperson of the whole organization for the young professionals. And she’ll tell that story. It was on her way out the door, but somebody actually confronted her and said, yeah, you’re right. And we could use you to get better.

Brandon Burton (23:25)
I love that.

Great example. And tie in in that storytelling right there. That’s perfect. I encountered a similar situation with a guy that owns a bar and like a brewery. And he was very much against.

the chamber and you know the chamber tried for years trying to get this guy to join. He came from corporate world and he’s like don’t see where we need this and through the persistence they got him to you know come to I think it was a mixer or something to begin with just as a non-member just come you know try it out and now he’s the board chair at this chamber. He’s all in and so it’s I love hearing stories like that love it.

Joe Venhuizen (23:40)
Mm-hmm.

Brandon Burton (24:09)
Anything else come to mind as far as expressing the value and really that ROI to businesses as they either go through their experience with the chamber or contemplate joining or renewing membership with the chamber?

Joe Venhuizen (24:25)
Yeah, I think

it’s more philosophical for me. It’s real big picture stuff of you get yourself in no win scenarios when you really try to justify it on the terms that they present. Because a renewing member may, like we said earlier, may justify value only as, I’ll give you one example. We had a Main Street business who said, I’m dropping my membership because

I didn’t see enough chamber gift certificates that came in the door spending money at my bakery. Exactly. And it was, I would need to see at least, you know, a thousand dollars in chamber gift certificates for this to be worth it. Now, those are the terms that he’s defined for this discussion. That’s the value that he’s defined. You have to get out of that language, those terms and present it on a different battlefield.

Brandon Burton (24:58)
That one metric. Yeah.

Joe Venhuizen (25:17)
which isn’t always easy, but that’s really how you have to get the mindset shift to go, well, that’s one metric. You know what? We maybe weren’t honest with you, sir. We probably should have told you that you’re organization is going to help you. But here’s what we are doing. Are you aware of this? Did you know how, you know, did you know how this this proposal at City Council that almost passed would have impacted your your tax bill or your assessment? And the chamber fought that you probably didn’t even know. Good thing is you didn’t have to know because we’re on your side. We’re advocating on your behalf for things that you’re not even paying attention to. Right. So getting them out of this this way of evaluating value and then getting over here. And a lot of it is, yeah, it’s those advocacy wins. It’s the big initiatives that we’re doing and then not being ashamed to continue storytelling on those wins. And, you know, I said I’m a dairy farm kid. You got to milk them. You got to milk it for everything it’s got, right? Once you get an accomplishment, don’t let it sit on the shelf. Keep bringing it back and leverage it for โ“ membership renewals as often as you can.

Brandon Burton (26:29)
I love that. Great analogy. Malcolm. Well, for the chambers that are listening,

Joe Venhuizen (26:30)
Yeah.

Brandon Burton (26:34)
Most of them are going to be interested in taking their chamber the next level, growing, expanding. What kind of tip or action item might you share with that chamber who’s trying to take it to the next level to try to accomplish that goal?

Joe Venhuizen (26:48)
It’s a good question. I think that if you’re listening and your chamber is not involved in advocacy and government affairs, you need to figure out how you can carve out a slice of that game because you owe it to your business community. Our organization pre-merger between chamber and economic development, our chamber was very active in

Brandon Burton (26:58)
you

Joe Venhuizen (27:12)
in advocacy and government affairs. During the merger, there was a fear that because our economic development organization had some public investments coupled with private, that we would be in a bad situation if we were trying to do local advocacy while also relying on public funds. And I won’t say that that isn’t a real factor.

But the result was we shelved advocacy. We got out of the game completely. And it only took a couple of years before we lost influence and we had a big missed opportunity for local development because we didn’t have an established enough advocacy voice to be able to influence this issue. And so it woke us up and it got us back to the table.

We reestablished a legislative agenda, reformed an advocacy committee, and have thrown a bunch of time and energy into it. And we’re yielding the results. Because again, we’ve said it, when it comes to ROI, that’s the trump card. For a business that can never show up to an event, can never be bothered to read an email, there is always, when you have a good, strong advocacy arm, there is always the argument that we did this, you benefited.

You didn’t have to show up just by existing in this community. You’re a beneficiary of this advocacy work that we did. And we think it’s worth at least a small amount of your annual continued investment. So I think that, you know, for chambers that are scared of it, there’s a way to do this in a very easy, non-controversial way, just to become the location where conversations happen.

You can do legislative forums where you’re just inviting in officials with the business community. You’re not taking stances. You’re not advocating positions. It’s an easy way to just get started. But I think that if you’re not doing anything in this advocacy sphere, you’ve got to get at the table.

Brandon Burton (29:04)
Yeah, I love that tip and it plays in very well to our discussion today too.

I talk about it being that Trump card that you can always go back to and you know, if you can get into the micro things for each individual business, but when you’re missing on those accord or you’re not, you know, really hitting it home for that business, you always can lean back on that advocacy card. I love that. I like asking everyone to have on the show as we look to the future of chambers of commerce. How do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Joe Venhuizen (29:27)
I feel like.

That’s another good question.

I think that Chambers of Commerce will continue to remember who they are and

The core of why chambers were started was to be a functional tool on behalf of a business community to accomplish more together than what businesses can on their own. I think as, you know, time goes on and chambers take different avenues and some function more in a tourist or some are in, you know, other areas, it sometimes becomes a

Well, let’s think about this organization like a business and how do we maximize our profits and keep our, people. I think that sometimes gets into a myopia and you’re really just looking down and you’re not thinking and remembering, okay, wait a minute, wait a minute. We’re a tool for the success of all of our businesses. The fear I have is the same thing that the internet did to Chambers when it became prevalent, which was now you have a platform outside of your local chamber where you can do a lot of the connections and the exposure and you don’t need to stop into the chamber office for a map anymore, right? These sorts of things that made chambers valuable. I fear that AI will do the same thing to a lot of the services or benefits that we now provide. And that can crush a chamber that’s not forward thinking or it can just challenge all of us. And so what I mean by waking up and remembering what we’re here for is the value that we provide in an increasingly automated AI culture is, and also in this fragmented political culture is we’re the sane people at the center of issues. And we are the people that know how to have conversations and to bring variety of opinions to the table and come out with results. We’re positioned for that. We’re here to represent businesses, but we’re also in touch with the public sector, nonprofit education, all different industries. We know how to get people to a table in the middle. And that’s something that you can’t automate. So remember how we’re uniquely positioned. And I think that that’s going to be the future of Chambers. just going to be continuing to be the trusted resource in the middle when you’ve got a lot of artificial things that can’t be trusted along the fringes.

Brandon Burton (32:04)
Yeah, totally agree and to be able to understand that core because technology is going to change everything around us. But if we’ve got that core and why we exist and then employ different tools around that core.

Joe Venhuizen (32:14)
Mm-hmm.

Brandon Burton (32:19)
I think that’ll keep chambers relevant in the center of trying to bring some sanity to both sides in long time in the future. Well, Joe, before we let you go, I wanted to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for listeners who may want to reach out and connect with you and learn more how you guys are doing things there at Envision. โ“ Where would you point them? What would be the best way to connect?

Joe Venhuizen (32:26)
Definitely.

Yeah.

Yeah, we have an easy name, Envision with an E, Envision Greater Fond du Lac. So you’ll find us, if you Google us, we’re online, EnvisionGreaterFDL.com. I’m a phone call guy. So if you want to get a hold of me, just ring me up. My phone number is listed on the website, but it’s 920-921-9500. I’m the only Joe in the building, so you’ll get to me quick. But I would love the chance to talk with you on the phone. I welcome anybody to call me and discuss ideas or book your next improv comedy show.

Brandon Burton (33:11)
That’s right, get that plug in there.

Joe Venhuizen (33:13)
Thanks.

Brandon Burton (33:16)
We’ll get that in our show notes to make it nice and easy for people to find you. But Joe, I appreciate you spending time with us today here on Chamber Chat podcast and sharing your perspective, your experiences when it comes to membership and expressing that value. I know it’s something that we constantly need to be thinking of and building that story bank that we can go back to whenever we need to to be relatable to those businesses that we interact with. So thank you for sharing your insights with us today.

Joe Venhuizen (33:18)
Thank you.

You bet. Thank you for the work you do. This is so important to people challenged in the industry and thinking ahead and thinking futuristically and also just for giving us some of the ideas for how to storytell. What you do is the same thing that we should be doing on the topic what we’ve been discussing. We’ve got to get better at getting the word out and not just in an annual renewal letter.

Brandon Burton (34:08)
Yeah, big fan of Chambers podcasting. I’ll just put that out there. So, all right. That’s right. Thank you, Joe. I appreciate it.

Joe Venhuizen (34:13)
We’ve got a whole lot of time. Thank you.


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Fox Cities Chamber-2024 Chamber of the Year Finalist with Becky Bartoszek

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your hosts Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

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You’re joining us for a special episode in our 2024 ACCE Chamber of the Year Finalist Series and our guests for this episode is Becky Bartoszek. Becky is the President and CEO of the Fox Cities Chamber in Wisconsin and having relocated to Wisconsin in 1998. And Becky’s previous experience included vice president of the Great Lakes for Alltel wireless market leader for the q ti group, and small business owner of a State Farm Agency. Becky currently serves on the ACCE board of directors. The new North board of directors, Wisconsin Chamber of Commerce executives is the current chair WMC board of directors and is currently appointed by Governor eavers to his Advisory Council on Workforce Investment, Becky and her husband Brian, or freedom residents, and they have the two of them together have two adult children as well. But Becky, I’m excited to have you with us today on Chamber Chat Podcast. And I need to start by saying a big congratulations to you and your team for being selected as a chamber to their chamber of the year finalists. This is exciting and, and reflective of the great work you guys are doing but wanted to give you a chance to say hello to all the chamber champions who are out there listening and to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better.

Becky Bartoszek 2:31
Well, thank you so much brand new appreciate being here today. And yeah, it is really, really exciting for our team to be able to celebrate being nominated as a finalist on our 100 and 50th year anniversary or ever chamber. So we’ve been able to do some really cool things bringing in past board members and you know, doing time capsules and everything this year, it’s been just a blast. So thank you for the you know, the background information. It’s I think people are always interested or find it interesting that my I actually grew up living in a convention center. So the chamber, our local Chamber of Commerce, would have events almost weekly at my house. So that was quite the preparation for getting into the chamber industry. Ultimately, when it was just kind of a normal everyday thing, the way that I had grown up. It’s quite

Brandon Burton 3:26
the training ground. I mean, most people enter the chamber world and they didn’t even know what a chamber was. And they started but you grew up with literally it all around it. So that’s absolutely, yeah, that’s cool. I think that’s a first for us on the shows having somebody that grew up in the in chamber. Yeah.

Becky Bartoszek 3:43
So next time when somebody’s clearing your plates at the dinner. I think that could be a future chamber.

Brandon Burton 3:49
Exactly. That’s right. That’s right. Well, and tell us a little bit about the Fox Cities Chamber just to kind of give us some perspective, the size here chamber staff budget scope of work, just to set the table for our discussion before we dive into the meat of this topic.

Becky Bartoszek 4:06
Oh, sure. Absolutely. The Fox Cities Chamber is hard to find on a map because the largest community in our in our region is Appleton, Wisconsin. So think of it this way. We are south of Green Bay and north of Milwaukee, Wisconsin. We serve two and a half counties. So we’re pretty good size, footprint. And we are not only the chamber, but we are the regional eto as well. We are current even though we’re the fourth largest community in the chamber, we are the second largest chamber as far as member count. We are over 1400 On our way to 1500 members currently, and we have a staff of 12 that most times 13 right now because I’m an intern, right revenues a little under 2 million about 1.8. And we just continue to grow and grow. In addition to our our traditional Chamber members. yours. We also have about 700 young professionals that have membership with us as well.

Brandon Burton 5:04
That’s awesome. So that’s in addition to the 1400. Members, that’s a different type of membership within the organization. That’s great. I know there’s I’ve heard of other chambers out there that are trying to get young professionals or even high school students involved with the Chamber in some degree, and trying to figure out a model for that. So that’s that’s

Becky Bartoszek 5:25
worked well, for us. We went from 140 to 700 in a year.

Brandon Burton 5:29
Yeah, I would say something worked. Yeah. That’s awesome. Well, on these chamber the year finalist series, I like spending the bulk of our conversation really diving into and discussing the two programs synopsis that were included on your chamber, the year application, and we will, we’ll take a quick break and when we get back we’ll dive in deep on what those two programs are and how they’re moving the needle in your community.

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Alright, Becky, we’re back. So as I as I mentioned before the break, we’re gonna dive into the the two programs that were submitted on your chamber the your application, if you would just tell us what the what the first program is that you’d like to highlight. And we’ll we’ll dive into that one. So

Becky Bartoszek 7:55
everybody’s always intrigued by our Connect free model. And that is a program that we started exploring in February of 2022. Basically, we brought in Sherry And Kelly from ACCE to do some strategic planning with our board of directors. And there was a great discussion about how we could come together as a community and specifically a chamber and really move the needle with the resources that we have, in our community, our biggest challenges, we just don’t have enough people for the growth that we’re experiencing. So in the state of Wisconsin, in general, if you remove international immigration, we’ve been net negative population growth for a while now not specifically in our market, but overall is it state. So we were trying to find a way that we could attract more people to want to come and live work and play and the Fox Cities Wisconsin area. Now we know that people can get a job anywhere now. And it’s really people decide where they want to live. And then they find a job. So it’s truly quality of life driving it. And we know that is driven by the small business environment. Nobody’s saying, Boy, I want to find the biggest Best Buy. And that’s where I’m gonna move. They want that fun restaurant shopping, kitschy experience. So we came up with a program that we launched six months later, which is called Kinect free. And it is a completely free membership for small businesses that have five or less full time employees, nonprofits that have 10 or less full time employees and all freestanding restaurants. So for example, if you’re a restaurant in a casino, it’s not free. But if you’re a freestanding restaurant, we just have a great robust package that we can provide you to help you get to the next level and to help track people attract people to our community.

Brandon Burton 9:55
So yeah, tell us tell us more how that model works. Oh, obviously, we can’t all work for free as nice as that would be able to do that. How does it operate? A? Are they you see them and participate in different programs and events that do have a cost to it? Or do they move on to a different membership tier? Or what how do you how do you make it work.

Becky Bartoszek 10:19
So that was our biggest challenge. And of course, I was I was very nervous going into this. So we had the first discussion with the board. And the first thing they asked us is, model this financially model it and see if we can make it work. So we spent three months modeling it, and the way that the financials work on this free membership model, from a chamber perspective, now you’re getting more members, you’re touching more people, so your marketing is worth a lot more. So that helped us to be able to recoup revenue, because we were able to sell our marketing at a higher value. In addition to that, you have more people that are invited to your events. So your membership revenue goes down, but your event revenue makes it up. And the only thing that’s not included in our free membership model are things like we don’t do free ribbon cuttings for now for free members. So they have to pay us for that. If they want to use our building or our meeting rooms, they have to pay us if they want to have discounted health insurance through us, that’s an additional add on fee. So there a lot of little ala carte functions that they all want to receive or benefits they want to receive that are an additional fee. So there’s a lot of reasons why somebody would want to get up to the paid level. Now, when we modelled this, we did anticipate number 150 year old organization, we did anticipate a lot of net negative, you know, revenue from migration to a free model. We anticipated on the on the higher end, it can be 80 to $100,000, right away in the first year. And what we’ve actually experienced over a two year period, we’ve only had less than $12,000 in revenue from people dropping down to the free model. And we’ve also seen a lot of our larger investors come forward and say I’m going to give you a larger economic development contribution to help pay for those free members. So it’s worked out quite well.

Brandon Burton 12:28
Yeah. Have you guys made any asks to any of those larger corporations to like that for the economic development? donations? Absolutely.

Becky Bartoszek 12:37
So we did see those contributions go up. And we didn’t know how it was gonna go. First of all, when we when we launched it, we were we were concerned about that. So we did spend another three months, making sure that we can market it correctly. So during that time, we actually did a full rebrand, and launched a new website, because we really, the the biggest challenge with a free membership model is it can’t be a big lift on your team. It has to be something that’s mostly automated. So we did spend about three months, you know, we did probably three years worth of work in six months to launch this. And I can tell you, we had a huge splash for the launch of this event where we actually invited the press in, we invited the politicians in the board, community leaders major investors, and made this big announcement. And we were the lead story on all of the local TV channels that night. And we had boy, probably about 100 Plus applications within the first few days. So that

Brandon Burton 13:42
was my next question. So the business still has to fill out an application. They’re not just getting a membership because they have a business in the Fox Cities area. So so they fill it out is is there any kind of approval process? Or do they fill it out? And then the remember or what you like you mentioned that the automation process, it has to be there. So it’s not too much of a load on your staff? Where Where does the staff interaction take place? What parts are automated, just to kind of give us an idea of how this works? Well,

Becky Bartoszek 14:15
the one thing that we did learn pretty quickly. Yeah, they fill out the application, and then it has to be approved. And the first thing that we were worried about was we were worried about upsetting the chambers around us. And so we were really trying to monitor that you had to be in our footprint to qualify for that membership. That was a crazy lift on our team because you know, we cover half a county here and you know, cities are split in half. So it took us not too long to figure out. We’ll just go and meet with the Chamber’s and talk to them about how to sell around us. And so we we actually did move away from monitoring that everything was in our footprint because it wasn’t a huge to impact but it was taken a lot of time. And then, you know, we are currently transitioning software systems so that more of our marketing touches, as follow ups, you know, 3060 90 days outreach can just be automated. But you know, of course, our ambassadors and our team, you know, we’re reaching out to everybody as quick as they could, especially when the first big group came in, I can tell you, the program has been launched by I think, about 22 months right now. And we have 632 small businesses that we’re supporting today that we weren’t in the past. Wow.

Brandon Burton 15:39
And I love that approach. Instead of we have 632, free membership level, free members, it’s 632 businesses, you’re able to support that you weren’t prior to this model. And that’s huge, because those are often the businesses that need the most support. And they’re underserved and, and end up being the ones that kind of go by the wayside and, and maybe don’t stay in business as long as they would have hoped so. And the cool

Becky Bartoszek 16:07
part, too, is that we’re finding partners in our community that want to do more with us. So for example, the YMCA came to us and said, We love your small business program, we’re going to put together a discounted package for you, so that we can work on the health of our small business owners. And then we had an insurance company that came to us and said, We see this as a great opportunity, we’re gonna offer discounted insurance for your members. So there’s, there’s been a lot of the community that stepped forward and says, We love what you’re doing. How can we help? Yeah,

Brandon Burton 16:41
yeah, I love that. So let’s shift gears a little bit into the second program, if you want to introduce that and tell us what it’s all about. Sure.

Becky Bartoszek 16:52
Our largest program that we hold each event that we have each year is a huge Oktoberfest event. So it’s actually two days. So on Friday night, we have a huge car show. And that car show is completely dry event. But it brings in about 100,000 people on Friday night. Wow. And then on Saturday is really the big event that we have. And that is a full blown Oktoberfest. But it’s not a lot of Oktoberfest bands. It’s not your traditional Oktoberfest with the German bands. We actually have really popular kind of pop pop bands fans

Brandon Burton 17:33
that people want to listen to. I’ll say it Yeah. And

Becky Bartoszek 17:39
we bring in it’s, it’s estimated between 200,200 20,000 People that day. And we started, the event actually starts at nine in the morning, with a big craft vendor business expo at one end. Then we have a ton of food trucks throughout the event. And then 13 hours of live music forum Friday night through Saturday. So

Brandon Burton 18:09
how long have you guys been doing the search? I guess first of all, is there a name branding it? Or is it just is it October fest is that just it’s

Becky Bartoszek 18:18
Appletons Oktoberfest so what we’ve actually talked about in our in our application for the award is focused on the past two years, because that program has Appletons Oktoberfest has been going on for 42 years now. And we were always involved, but it was always run by a community steering committee. And when ochman COVID hit, and you know the world shut down. Obviously, we didn’t want to be known as the super spreader events of the Midwest. So we didn’t have it the first year. And at the end of that first year, we lost most of our steering committee. And we also lost a lot of our volunteers. And to pull this event off the way that we have been doing it. It took about 1200 volunteers each year to make it happen. So come second year of the event, the world is starting to open up again. But our community was really scared about a surge. And we really didn’t want to put people in harm’s way. And some of our largest investors in our organization are our health care systems. And based on their input, there was a second year that we cancelled Oktoberfest. I mean, we planned it right down to the last minute. And we just could not make it happen because we didn’t have the volunteer population come out to do it well, and it would have been the 40th anniversary. So at that point, we took a step back and basically had to revamp the entire program. Now what’s is all about our Oktoberfest is it’s a gigantic give back to our community. So think of this as a street long or a mile long venue that’s just jam packed with people. And, you know, it’s free free admission, nobody pays to get in. But every food vendor that’s there has to have a sign in front of their location, saying which nonprofit they are sharing their revenues with. And then all of the money that is raised by beer sales, which we don’t tell people how much beer we sell that the proceeds from that go into a large grant fund, and those dollars go back into our community to support our nonprofits. And for many of our nonprofits, that’s their biggest fundraiser of the year. That

Brandon Burton 20:52
is huge. I love seeing chamber being able to sit to partner and support other nonprofits and their missions, and what a great way a big community driven event, and you’re gonna get the foot traffic, people are gonna buy food, they’re gonna buy beer, they’re going to do all the things, right. So being able to tie that in. And I imagine each vendor has the choice of which nonprofit they want to support. Do you provide a list to say, here’s our local nonprofits to choose from? Or can they go outside of a certain list of parameters? Or how is that structured?

Becky Bartoszek 21:28
No, it’s completely up to them. And if they come to us and say, Do you have somebody we can make a connection for them, but it’s really up to them to decide which nonprofit they want to support. So you know, we do we see everything from wrestling teams to the police department, you know, the police and fire departments are they’re, you know, challenging each other and, you know, chili cook offs, and everything else. But for us to be able to make this happen. And that’s really what our focus on the application was, we had to change some things, we had to bring really the bulk of the lift into the chamber directly to make this happened. And we bought a new software program where we were able to really get get our hands around the complete management of the of the process. In addition to that most of the food vendors historically that had been there were the nonprofits themselves setting up food booths. Well, we changed it so that it was food trucks and restaurants coming in to support those nonprofits and do revenue sharing. So our need for volunteers went from 1200, every year, to closer to 800. To have the same impact.

Brandon Burton 22:44
Oh, wow, that that helps. I mean, 800 is still a big number. But that’s that means 400 less, so that’s good. So you mentioned the software that you purchase, is that an event specific software? Or?

Becky Bartoszek 22:57
It is it is it helps us map out just about everything you can need on the mile that we’re putting together it, you know, historically, you know, the steering committee would have a spreadsheet and the first time we went through it afterwards, it said, you know, ice for Oktoberfest, okay, there’s ice for 200,000 200,000 people, you know, six bags or six trucks? It really, you know, helped us how was all of the information that we needed to know, to make sure no, no matter who we had on the team at the Chamber, that there was a footprint to follow. Yeah, and for years to come. So those are just a couple of the changes that we just really did a deep dive to help increase the efficiencies. Ya know, we even started doing surveys of people that were our food vendors, and getting net promoter scores on whether they would recommend that their peers and other people join the event. And that helped helped us fine tune a lot of the things that we were doing as well. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 24:00
that’s huge. Go get that feedback and be able to make those adjustments for year to year and really improve the overall program that the the event, that’s great. So each of the vendors who they register with you imagine they have to to be able to get everything in order and be able to have their spot and be able to, you know, tie it into whatever nonprofit and all that stuff. Exactly. It’s

Becky Bartoszek 24:26
quite a process. Because think about it this way it’s taking over our main street. So we have food vendors that we need to very carefully map this treat, so that we’re not putting a pizza vendor in front of a pizza restaurant, you know, and we do work with those local restaurants to give them the first opportunity to be on the street and to be able to capitalize on making the most revenue that day.

Brandon Burton 24:51
Yeah, so and I imagined whoever’s in front of, you know, whatever booth is in front of their business or restaurant, it’s still going to drive people in door ers into their shops, hopefully beyond to use the restroom. Right? Exactly. Spend some money, hopefully. So, exactly. Well, that sounds like an amazing event and being able to fine tune it and make improvements on it like you have that’s, it sounds like a fun one to to attend. So

Becky Bartoszek 25:21
well. And to tell you a little bit more about the economic impact. Now with the new software and partnerships that we’ve created, we’re finally able to figure out a little bit more about what the event is doing for our community. And working with our tourism, convention Bureau and state analytics, we’re able to get a better idea, but not completely. So this is a cash only event. So when we can track the actual dollars that are spent on credit cards, and the dollars that are spent on overnight stays, we’ve been able to find out how many people are coming to our community, where they’re coming from, and they’re coming from all over the Midwest for this. And we know before we even look at the cash input implications that this event is having, on average of $43.2 million impact on our economy.

Brandon Burton 26:14
Whoa, that is huge. That’s way more than I would have guessed it would have come nowhere close to that. Wow. So as we, as we start to wrap things up here, you guys are obviously moving the needle and making an impact in your community. And being a chamber the year finalist, you guys are kind of at the top of your game at this moment. And I wanted to ask for listeners who are interested in taking their chamber up to the next level, what kind of tip or action item or piece of advice you might share with them to try to accomplish that goal.

Becky Bartoszek 26:51
Well, you know, it’s funny, I was new to the chamber industry about five years ago. And I can tell you what, what worked for me and what worked for us. I actually did a deep dive into all the information I could find a both chambers of the year. So for example, when Ocala was the chamber of the year in our category, I stocked their website, I looked at everything they had. And I found that videos were really working well for them. And I thought, well, I don’t really have the resources to do that. And we talked about it as a team. And we actually went to the local TV station and said, Now, come on, your tagline is we are Green Bay, but you’re covering our market work with us. And it resulted in us for the past two years, having the opportunity to bring a guest onto a local show, and spotlights something going on in our community and having beautifully professionally done videos for zero cost. Yeah, yeah. None of that would have would have happened, had we not been looking at what the chamber of the years were doing. And it’s just given us great ideas to make them our own. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 28:03
but those news agencies are always looking for stories. They’re looking for content. And if you can provide bring a guest on and provide some valuable content to their viewership. Yeah. They cover your market, why wouldn’t they do that? So that’s great partnership and very budget friendly. So I like that I like Yeah. And Ocala is a great chamber, obviously being a chamber the like, they’re, they’re great. Kevin and his team, there are amazing. I like asking everyone I have on the show, as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Becky Bartoszek 28:41
You know, it’s funny, because it’d be in our 100 and 50th anniversary this year, we always talk about our mission today. This is the same as it was 150 years ago. And it’s bringing our business community together to help those businesses thrive, but to create a better place in our community for people to want to live work and play, obviously. But you know, realistically, I think that that mission is going to continue, but we just need to continue to evolve. You know, when we’re looking at 2025. You know, we’re looking at cutting back awards programs, and launching AI opportunities for, you know, a summit and things like that. And it’s just constantly evolving, and really keeping an understanding of what’s impacting our businesses and our lives and making sure that we remain relevant. And I think as long as we can do that, now, we’re hopeful our chambers got at least another 150 years.

Brandon Burton 29:38
That’s right. That’s right. That’s great. Becky, I wanted to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for listeners who may want to reach out and learn more about how you guys are doing things there in the Fox Cities Chamber and more about the programs. You talked about what would be the best way for a listener to reach out and connect with you?

Becky Bartoszek 29:59
Absolutely. So Obviously all of our information is on our website FoxCitiesChamber.com. My contact information is on there as well. And you can always reach me at bbartoszek@foxcc.net.

Brandon Burton 30:12
Very good, and we’ll get that in our show notes for this episode as well. But, again, just big congratulations to you and your team for being selected as a finalist this year for chamber the year and I wish you guys the best of luck in Dallas.

Becky Bartoszek 30:27
Thank you so much, Brandon.

Brandon Burton 30:30
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Rapid Growth After Pandemic with Christine Cribb

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your hosts Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

Our title sponsor is Community Matters, Inc. With nearly 20 years in the chamber industry and over 100 media awards presented to their chamber partners, community matters provides the R&R that every chamber needs, revenue and recognition.

When it comes to publishing a Chamber Map directory or Community Guide, Community Matters has a trusted experience to help your chamber accomplish your goals. With different advertising sales models and publication styles, Community Matters will help you create a non-dues revenue machine!

Let’s hear from Becky Womble, President of the Bastrop Chamber to hear about her experience with Community Matters.

Becki Womble 1:03
I’ve been using Community Matters for probably six or seven years now. And in a previous life, I sold commercial printing so I can highly recommend Community Matters because it’s a complete turnkey job for any busy chamber exec and it’s a wonderful, beautiful printed product whenever you’re finished. And I just I’m very sold on Community Matters. And with a printing background I just big endorsement from me.

Brandon Burton 1:44
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Our guest for this episode is Christine Cribb. Christine has been at the helm as the President and CEO of the Cleveland County Chamber in North Carolina for the past two and a half years. With an infectious energy a hunger for smart growth and a passion for helping businesses thrive. Christine has now left her mark on two chambers. Christine’s impressive track record and chamber world speaks volumes about her dedication and expertise. In her previous role she led the largest chamber per capita in the state of Washington, and accomplishment that exemplifies her talent for driving success. The chamber team not only grew the chamber, led and represented the business community but the Oak Harbor Chamber Fourth of July festival was voted number seven in the country by USA Today’s readers poll. In 2019. Christine was voted Community Leader of the Year by her peers solidifying her reputation as an exceptional leader. After spending most of the pandemic in Italy, Christine returned to the States to continue the work she loves. Chamber world took her to Cleveland County Chamber of Commerce where she conducted a listening tour and has since become a unstoppable force of innovation and growth. Her contagious enthusiasm or it has propelled the Cleveland County Chamber to new heights introducing over 15 New trailblazing chamber events and programs that have invigorated the business community all over the county and beyond. Her leadership has grown the chamber Upon her arrival at 325 members in July of 2021 to 619 members today. So Christine, I’m thrilled to have you with us today on chamber chat podcast. And I’d love for you to take a moment to say hello to all the chamber champions that are out there listening and to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better.

Christine Cribb 3:51
Well, thank you so much. Thank you, Brandon for having me today. Team, your chamber champions, I so much admire and respect what you do every single day you bounce so many hats. And it’s just a profession that has so much pride and joy. And very few people know what’s going on behind the scenes at or on on any given day. So I just I love this world and love being part of it. I think most interesting thing about me, of course, I’m a new grandmother. So to me, being a brand new grandmother is for the first time is just a pure joy with my family on a personal level. I will share that when I went to Italy. I left for Italy in January 2020. And the pandemic hit that February and I was in Italy for a year, which was about the best adult timeout you could imagine. And being from Can you imagine being from chamber world. Please don’t anyone feel sorry for me in any way because I do Drink a lot of wine. And I learned how to cook Italian. And when the airport’s opened back up, I knew that I needed to go back doing the work I love to do. And I did a nationwide search to return to chamber world to make a difference for businesses. Very

Unknown Speaker 5:15
good. My

Christine Cribb 5:16
little gold. Yeah.

Brandon Burton 5:18
So I figured there was more of a story there to the Italy detour with that some people would say stuck there. But it sounds like you didn’t you didn’t feel stuck you if you enjoyed your time there. So

Christine Cribb 5:34
exactly. And when I came here, I enjoyed hearing people’s stories on how they pivoted. And it was really meant to be moment when you can’t do anything. I’m in Italy, I cannot do anything. But watch, listen here. Watch how businesses were trying to pivot watch what they were doing differently. So I came back. So it just feeling very energized to to continue to help businesses. So yeah, but I did learn how to cook a lot of Italian food, I can tell you that I enjoyed. I enjoyed that as a

Brandon Burton 6:11
great skill to have. So will tell us a little bit about the Cleveland County Chamber just to give us an idea. We talked about the size and 619 members now but what is the staff situation look like the type the scope of work, you guys are involved with? Budget, that sort of thing to kind of set the stage for our conversation?

Christine Cribb 6:31
Oh, sure, absolutely. So when I joined the chamber, we were in July 2021, we were still attached to economic development partners. So that was well over a million dollar budget. But most of that was economic development partners. So we started from scratch. When they separated from us. We had at the time, five employees. We took it down. By fall of 2021. We took it down to to an administrative assistant and myself. So I wore all the hats of membership sponsor sponsorship, invoicing, billing, and I had an administrative assistant that was doing the scheduling that I told her, I was brand new in the community, I wanted to meet with every person I needed to meet with. And so she set my schedule, and I set out Google Maps, and I started to just meet people and cultivate and establish relationships. It was a it was, it was really a challenge. We also updated the website. So internally, we were putting a brand new website together, we flipped databases, which everyone knows that that can be a nightmare, I foolishly thought it would take us three months. And it actually took us almost a year to get it within really good working in a good working way. And then I hired my our master plan with the board was to hire more people as contract employees instead of employees inside the chamber building. So we have a two story building three offices upstairs. So we filled those three offices upstairs with leasing. And that funding was the revenue stream to help improve capital improvements for the chamber foundation. So people wonder what what the great value is of a chamber foundation, the foundation owns this building that that were housed in, in Uptown Shelby. And that leased property upstairs funnels for capital improvement projects to take care of the building. So we now have three employees. I’m I’m answering your question in a long, long sentence but it but it’s really exciting because we took bookkeeping out of office and the end had that, that contract. We took some marketing off and put that into contract employee. We our Monday minute our newsletter that was all done remotely as with a contract employee until I just brought her in last year. So now we have 2.8 members of the staff with a and looking to hire in fourth quarter one more member of the team. Awesome.

Brandon Burton 9:21
So going along with our topic for our discussion today’s we’re going to focus on the rapid growth that you guys have seen, especially coming out of the pandemic and since you’ve arrived there at the Cleveland County Chamber that plays right along with seeing the staff numbers as you guys you know had the economic development you know parts and you see those staff members leave but then building it back up to kind of match what you guys are doing with membership levels there is pretty impressive. So I am excited to dive in deeper on On the discussion for today and really learning what you guys did to really drive this rapid growth and I know you’ve got this infectious personality and a drive to really make things happen, but we’ll dive in deeper on that as soon as we get back from this quick break.

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All right, Christine, we are back. As I mentioned before the break, we’re going to focus our conversation today around the rapid growth that you guys have seen since you came on board there at the Cleveland County Chamber and especially coming out of the pandemic. I know, through the pandemic, obviously chambers everywhere were challenged, but also were able to really show their value, which at a time where their member businesses might be struggling chambers were able to really step up to be that that resource that they go to to help strengthen the business community. But I’d love to hear some of these experiences and kind of what those drivers were to help with this rapid growth.

Christine Cribb 13:25
Door. Thank you. So we I had a philosophy and I had it in my previous chamber that we don’t chase members, we attract members. And so that’s probably one of my best gold nuggets is I have not knocked on one door, nor has anyone on my team and said, you are a member of the Chamber of Commerce. Here’s my card. Let me tell you about the chamber. I’ve been very dependent on the chamber board ambassadors and fellow Chamber members. Now when I got here, it was kind of like the perfect storm brand. And because we’re coming out of the pandemic, there is one annual month or one monthly event and two annual events. And I remember telling staff that there there will be five in the next year monthly events. So I tell people, we introduced programs that do not if you only had a business after hours, and people would say well, I have to get home and I have to cook dinner for my children or do homework bla bla bla, I can’t attend a business after hours. Well, that that wouldn’t work in my chamber world because we have a business over breakfast, which is for the morning people which is a networking opportunity and a gold nugget speaker and then we have our member luncheon where we introduce our new members along with networking and a great gold nugget of a keynote speaker. And then we also have business after hours and every month we have to lunch and learns. And so I tell people if you if that doesn’t fit in your schedule any one Have those, I’m in bed by nine o’clock, and I can’t help you anymore. But I’m imagining that it would fit, you know, offering enough programs that fit with people with their schedules. So that was kind of the the brainstorm behind it is to create enough programs not to be I wasn’t afraid to fail, create enough events and programs that members would fit into member schedule to participate and be part of the chamber. And then really messaging what the chamber does, you know, we do not do community events. So we’re in my past chamber, we did, like four major community events here we don’t we are resources, marketing, continuing education, and networking. And we just drive home that if anyone was to give our 32nd speech, spiel of what the chamber does, we get to share, we are these four things. And our sole purpose is to help businesses succeed, we are not funded by the city, the county, or the state, we are a member driven organization with the goal of helping businesses succeed. That’s all it takes. And then when people repeat that, that’s where the growth comes from our social media presence had a lot to do with it. People walked in the door and said, I’m watching what you’re doing on social media, and I want to be part of it. So it was it was twofold. It was people talking about what we do and understanding when people say, oh, yeah, I’m a member of the chamber. Well, why are you a member, our ambassadors and our board? And those people actively involved in sponsorships and things like that? They can answer that question very easily.

Brandon Burton 16:41
Yeah. So let’s lean into those two areas a little bit more. So I think word of mouth is always the best form of marketing. So you said you’re trying to lean on other members and your board members, investors, that sort of thing to really drive is the buzz about what the Chamber’s doing. You’re not out there knocking on the doors, as you said. So what built that enthusiasm, that energy would infuse that energy to get these members talking? Was it the creating the events first? And then they were talking about them? Because they came in and experienced it? Or did you create a buzz that led to the events? Or what? How did that origin even

Christine Cribb 17:23
deeper? That’s a great question. So the first thing I did July through September 2021, is I went on a listening tour. And I made sure that what we were going to create as a team. And what I was going to pitch to the board at the board retreat in that October was what members wanted. So we did surveys, and I did a listening tour, I learned the past, I learned about the future and learned about the state of the businesses coming out of the pandemic, which is very different than before. So I listened. And then I vetted numerous things, not only from my past, that worked well, but I wanted to make sure they would work well here. I vetted it through the ambassador program, we each took a program, or an event that we had that had been pitched to me and we vetted it among the ambassadors. And then at the board retreat that October, I pitched the following year, what we were going to do. So when we share, you know, here’s what we’re going to do for 2022. We’re going to introduce nine new programs and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, it had all been vetted very well, it wasn’t just, you know, I have the enthusiasm and I have the the risk, I’m willing to take a risk in something failing to try to do something different than what had ever been done before. Also watching from the sidelines during the Chamber’s had to pivot drastically and make sure that their value was so relevant in the community, I didn’t want to just be, you know, when you ask someone, why are you a member of the chamber? Oh, we’ve been a member for 40 years, because we always have been or we should be, I want the answer to be. We’re a member the chamber because why wouldn’t you be? That’s the answer that I want one woman out.

Brandon Burton 19:13
I like to elevating that what that answer is in thinking is people are asking what is the better answer providing that experience for them to have the better answer that better response.

Christine Cribb 19:23
So we meet the other thing Brandon we do, which is just a staple in this chamber and with the ambassadors is we do not say the word no, there is no negative. The sounds kind of corny, but it’s just my philosophy. There are no negative words expressed. So if somebody comes in and says, I want you to blow up my logo in nine places, and I want you to do it for $100. Well, of course that answer is going to be no, but we never say the word. Now we say let’s Sit down and talk about the sponsorship packet. And let me show you what’s available. We we train staff, that there is never a negative word spoken in the office. And there is never we work around making sure that we do not use the word no to our members. Because we all know that chamber membership is an option, not in necessity. We’re not the electric bill. But we want to make sure that people feel like they cannot live without their business will not succeed without the energy that this chamber is putting behind them. Right?

Brandon Burton 20:31
Yeah, I’d love that mentality. So tell us a little bit more about the social media experience in the presence that you guys built there. And now you’d mentioned that you had now have that outsourced to do the marketing, if I understood that correctly. But what were some of those drivers on the social media front that really created engagement and, and brought people out?

Christine Cribb 20:56
Sure, the advantage I had was social media, specifically, Facebook was very active during pandemic coming into Cleveland County, North Carolina from Oak Harbor on would be island in Washington State, I had brought a following with me of chamber people if I could and businesses that wanted to see what what we what what I was going to do next where where I was. And so I actually started with my following personally, and then would forward it on to the chambers to the Chamber’s Facebook page and started to drive some traffic that way. And we focused on the energy of every single thing we did, about, for example, yesterday, we did, I spoke at BNI, presented at BNI at 730. In the morning, we did a ribbon cutting at four in the afternoon for a new nail salon. And then we had our gentleman’s bourbon dinner and tasting last night that started at 630. All of those went up on Facebook, to just remind people of all the things we’re doing to help businesses succeed in Cleveland County. So we put everything up there that the answer, the simplest answer is, the recipe is simply be positive in your posts, and post what a joy it is and how humbled you are to serve and get those posts up to show people the energy and what you’re doing. If you’re not on social media. How will people know what you’re doing? You know, if you’re so bogged down in the the the constant tasks of doing your chamber work? How do people know what you’re doing? And I feel like Facebook has been really a great tool for us.

Brandon Burton 22:47
Yeah, that’s interesting, taking your personal following and helping to build your your chamber following the chamber Facebook page that says interesting approach. I love how you mentioned when you came on board at the Cleveland County Chamber, you did this listening tours even around and want to know the businesses what the community was all about. Since then, the membership has almost doubled. I mean, you guys are knocking on the door of doubling the membership. And so that tells me there was a lot of members in the club or a lot of businesses in the community that were not currently members. So as you did the listening tour, as new members join that maybe been in the community for a while. What were some of the some of the feedback that you received have, maybe were, you know, things have been missing the mark in the past or things that you were doing that they noticed that they wanted to be a part of. I’m curious what some of those responses

Christine Cribb 23:50
are. So are. The message that we put out is definitely that we represent the business community in all of Cleveland County. So some people thought maybe the chamber was a little more exclusive. Some people thought maybe the chamber was more about the big businesses and not small business. Some people thought it was you know, a little bit of an old boys network down here. And I just reassured everyone that it’s it’s the Cleveland County Chamber of Commerce represents all businesses in Cleveland County, like we are a membership driven, but we were the biggest networking organization in Cleveland County, and we represent everyone. Now everyone also knows that coming out of the pandemic businesses started at such a historic pace that we also grabbed a hold of an awful lot of them. People that were small business that said, I’m going to get out of that work I have done in the past and I’m going to live my dream of being an entrepreneur and doing blank. So we welcomed them, we partnered with the Small Business Center at the community college to make sure that they had business plans and were prepared for things that would come up that they that were not their expertise, and just nurtured those. Now, we also all know, and we’re very realistic. So while we’re proud of our growth, we’re very realistic that only 70 that 75% of all new businesses will fail in the first five years. So at that growth that came out of the pandemic, we’re probably going to plan a decrease three and five years from now knowing that not all of them will succeed, but they did the energy that has already been established. Somebody says, I’m starting a business, they are going to come in, and we’re going to help tools and the resources to succeed. Some businesses had left the chamber prior to pandemic, for whatever reason, didn’t find the value. And we heard they, you know, we saw them come back, while businesses didn’t know that small businesses could be part of the chamber. And with that domino effect of people talking about all the events and the programs that we were doing, that brought them back in the door. So it was kind of multifaceted of who came in the door. But it all led back to someone telling someone else about the energy or the programs or I’m starting a business. Oh, you should go talk to the chamber. So getting the word out about what the chamber did was was the most critical, critical of that to make all that happen? Yeah,

Brandon Burton 26:31
absolutely. So when you came onto the the Cleveland County Chamber Did you? Did you have a goal when it came to membership is that? If you did has that been shared? Have you exceeded that? Are you still working towards it? I’m curious.

Christine Cribb 26:49
Let’s this so that anyone that knows me knows that I would have a goal. So that’s the first board retreat, a board retreat in 2021. I shared with the board that there was no reason this chamber and at the time, were 340. Probably by then. I said there’s no reason this chamber is not 1000 member chamber. And I remember the awkward silence that attacks there, because they just thought that membership was a struggle, right? That that chambers get that that stigma that you have to knock on a door and pitch somebody why you need to be a chamber member, and it’s not the right fit for everyone. So to me, I don’t need there’s 20,000 registered businesses and the registered deeds in Cleveland County, I don’t need 20,000 of them. I want to help those that want that need these benefits to help their businesses. And there is no reason we’re not going to hit 1000. I did not think we would accelerate at this pace. I’ll be honest, I thought it would take five, seven years to get to that 1000. But I anticipate that we’ll get there in the next two or three years now.

Brandon Burton 28:02
Yeah, that’s awesome. I love the big goals and the ability to believe it and to go after it. And it’s happening. So congratulations to you guys.

Christine Cribb 28:15
Thank you, Brandon. I also want to share that that the one I mentioned earlier that I’m not afraid to fail, we did it programmed, that did not work well. And I had no problem saying, you know, we gave it three shots, and it did not work. And so let’s do something else. So I’m not afraid to fail. So we introduced something. And if it works, that’s awesome. And if not, let’s just keep reinventing it. Let’s not stick in be stuck in what we’ve always done. Let’s do something new and different, or change it. Last year, we introduced a professional women’s luncheon. And to me, we needed I had one sponsor, and we needed 40. Women to to for me to think that I had it be a success. Well, we had RSVPs of 100. And that was capacity. And so we were sold out and we had a great keynote speaker come in and share stories. And it was very inspirational. And this year, so people were already asking what are what is the plan for next year. So 2024 we took it to a bigger venue. We’re going to be sold out at 200. We have a keynote speaker from the Ritz Carlton Leadership Center coming in, and we just reinvented it and made it bigger. So I am not afraid to just take a risk. If that professional women’s luncheon had not been successful, we would have gone on and tried something different. But that one was was a home run home run

Brandon Burton 29:41
for sure. I love that being able to cut the ones that aren’t serving you and lean in harder on the ones that are and before we started the recording, I had mentioned that the new event that you guys added last night, right for the first time. I’m going to tell a little bit about that and the success from there.

Christine Cribb 29:58
Absolutely So bourbon is a really a big deal here. And the people I’ve met that collect the bourbon that look for unique bottles, just kept resonating with me. And so last fall, I had this idea because we have a building that will be 40 years old and in 2025. And we have a revenue stream that supports some capital improvements. But we needed to beef up that funding a little bit more to get more work done. So we started something called the gentleman bourbon tasting and dinner. And it is at a new venue, which is has a like a speakeasy feel, and the the revenue made from it will go toward capital improvement. But it sold out we did small just like professional women’s luncheon, or Yeah, the professional women’s lunch, we did smile, we did a dinner a beautiful dinner with for 24 and did a very phenomenal raffle item. And both were sold out within three days. So we added a second night, which is tonight. And we’ll do an instant replay of the bourbon dinner and tasting. But I’m also and it does seem to be it’s going to net a few, quite a few $1,000. So it’s, it’s really great. But once again, if it wasn’t, I’d be totally okay with that. Like, if it didn’t work, then we’ll go do something else. But apparently I hit the nail on the head with this bourbon theme.

Brandon Burton 31:39
That’s fantastic. I love hearing the stories and, and being able to own up to when it’s not going to work to be able to cut the loss. So I love that

Christine Cribb 31:48
right. And let me share one let me serve on because I know that lots of chambers, they have a hard time pitching their board. And there’s some a mentor of mine once said, you manage up and you manage down so you manage your staff, obviously, but you also manage your board and you make sure they’re the board is crystal clear on what their responsibility is. And if a board member is passionate about marketing, then there’s a chairman of your marketing committee. And they you’re you’re tapping into what they want to contribute to the chamber. The other thing that’s really important to me is a good healthy relationship with your board of directors is really, really critical. But I’m also not afraid to ask anyone for an extra sponsorship. So somebody pays their membership dues. And oh, and we had a huge dues increase. Brandon this past year. So a year ago, I’m a believer that your operations need to equal your dues rather than your your revenue from your dues. I think most chambers operate that way. So programs and events, build better programs and events. That’s what they’ve that funding should do. But membership dues needs to equal your operating costs. So your operation budget and membership dues should be pretty much in line with each other. So we did a membership dues increase. And my philosophy was if somebody is not complaining about how much they’re paying for dues, then you’re not charging enough. Yeah. Think about think about that. So we increased from a basic membership dues here was $300. We increased it 25% and went to $400. And we have zero pushback. Wow. Not one person said so. And now that funding is equal to our operations budget. So that that was a, you know, an end to convince the board that this is best practices is that the Chamber revenue from their membership dues equals your operations budget. So let’s make that happen. And if we lose members along the way, I promise we’ll gain them in the long run. And we did not lose one member.

Brandon Burton 34:04
So

Christine Cribb 34:06
taking a risk like that, yeah, take a risk like that. Brandon, where if it had failed, I was prepared to say the worst case scenario is we start to lose members, but we will gain them back with the new members that will join that will pay $400. And we did not lose a member I we were taking a risk again, right? Yeah. So you have to be a risk taker. And you have to be positive about it the whole time. Like you can’t say, you know, I’ve listened to some cohorts that and they feel so bogged down, that their energy resonates with their staff, it resonates with their members, and it needs to be positive. So my background is in Macy’s specialty stores. I was their new store coordinator in the Midwest, a long, long time ago, but their philosophy was when you hit the floor, it’s showtime. And that’s kind of the philosophy here you know, you might have had a flat tire or the baby spit up on you or what Whatever. And I’m really sorry. And we can talk about that behind the scenes. But when you’re in front of a member in the community, it’s showtime you are you represent all the energy. And so your energy equal, what is in your membership? So if you’re positive and happy and you know, get it going on, then then that’s what’s your membership is going to resonate. And do you make everyone happy? No, but I’m a full. I’m a firm believer that we don’t need to make everyone happy. And if it’s not the right fit, you are welcome to leave the chamber. I don’t we don’t have to have a person that’s unhappy with the Chamber of Commerce as a member happily say goodbye. I’m sorry. Not a good bit.

Brandon Burton 35:41
Yeah. Such a great lesson there. And for chambers out there that are looking at needing to increase their dues, yeah, the revenue from their dues. This is a great example here at 25% increase with zero pushback. And I understand every community and chamber is different. But there’s one there, there’s room to increase and grow. So thank you for sharing.

Christine Cribb 36:07
Absolutely, and preparing for the worst case scenario. So someone came in and said, You know, I can’t afford $400 a year if they had said that, I would have obviously wanted to coach them on their business plan. But then I would also work with them. Right. So we could do quarterly payments, or we can do very seldom do I do monthly, but I could have done, you know, I was willing to say the worst case scenario, and somebody says that. Yeah, I was willing to work with him. It wasn’t just black and white. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 36:40
I love that. So as we start to wrap Yeah, as we started to wrap things up here, I wanted to ask for those that are listening who are looking to take their chamber up to the next level, what kind of tip or action item might you want to share with them that they can maybe take back to their chamber to implement?

Christine Cribb 37:01
I would do. Let’s see, when I walked in the door, we have a non negotiable list and that that positive attitude is non negotiable. So there’s that starts in house, I would take a look at not why it wouldn’t work. But what if it did work? Like I would give everything you’ve ever pitched thought of that anybody has said, you know, people come into our offices, and they say, You know what the chamber should do. And they say that as if you’re sitting, sitting back eating bonbons all day, right? Yes, and you want to say, oh, gosh, thank you so much for that. Now, I will give up my my cheesecake here and I will go do what you asked me to do. I would say throw everything on the wall and see what sticks. You know, throw all that spaghetti on the wall and take a risk. And don’t be afraid to fail. But along with that comes a great positive attitude. It comes with a great board relationship. Because if I ever thought I had to you know, if I had to think twice about the job I was doing because of my board of directors, I would not be doing this, we would not be as successful as we are right now. We have 100% support of a board that was huge. When I got here, we downsize it. I’ve an advisory committee, I vet things through them. Every I communicate with them regularly, there is no doubt in the board’s mind what’s going on at the chamber and what we’re doing, having them along for the ride. And then build programs that attract people don’t chase members build programs that attract but do it in a way that members had a part of what was going on. They had a part of creating it, man, you get a piece of that. You give someone an idea. Somebody gives you an idea, and you’re actually taking it and bringing it to fruition. They were thrilled. You know they’re there. They’re part of your chamber, then that’s more than just writing and chat.

Brandon Burton 38:58
Yeah, that’s awesome. Yeah, they become an advocate for where you guys are doing them too and helping to share that. That greater good. And there

Christine Cribb 39:09
goes the word of mouth. The word of mouth. I’m telling you, I’ve not knocked on one door and not given my card to one person and said, Are you a chamber member? I’ve not done it. So even last night at the Bergen event, seven of the attendees were not Chamber members and three of them came up after and said we used to be members and now I’d like to rejoin So my number is going to increase in just just this week alone. But and I didn’t say a word it was the premier sponsor said if you are not a chamber member right now you you need to think twice about that decision. And we got three members and I never said a word I never pitched other than what we do and what the funding was going toward for the event last night. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 39:56
I love it and it wasn’t exclusive member only event. So you open it up and you know, opportunities so good.

Christine Cribb 40:04
We also most all of our events, so even a lunch and learn is no fee for a chamber member but a $10 fee for a non member. And generally at every lunch and learn there is someone who is a non member, and we get to I get to come in, they do a roundtable, and I introduced the chamber and what we do, and that’s it, most all of our events have a member and non member fee. Right?

Brandon Burton 40:28
Yeah, I love it. So as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Christine Cribb 40:40
I feel if I, when I give my 32nd Get a pitch about a chamber, we have to constantly reinvent ourselves and stay relevant. So when I did that listening tour when I got here, Brandon, I could get a lot of appointments, but I could not get one appointment with a elected official. So it told me that the chamber was not relevant when it came to elected officials. Now, we have a legislative affairs committee, we have a legislative affairs agenda. And last spring, we had 195 people attend a Monday morning at 730 legislative breakfast. So cultivating those relationships and being relevant, like don’t think it’s just the way it’s always been, is the way we can do it going forward. Before I got here, I did a nationwide search and I interviewed with six different chambers. And I got six different job offers, which told me I probably have a screw loose to get back into this business. But I was just passionate when I came back from Italy about coming back and helping businesses succeed. And in doing that some chambers weren’t even opened back up yet brand and like they were still scared about what the future would hold. And I would say you have to take risks and you have to reinvent yourself all the time, you have to be relevant, reinvent yourself to what is relevant, and stay positive and energize. And when you think what we do what our responsibility is as a chamber is to offer business resources. We offer marketing, we offer continuing education, and networking opportunities. Those four things are what businesses need to succeed. So as long as you’re reinventing yourself to focus on those four purposes, at least, that’s within our chamber. If those four pillars are the reason we’re here to help businesses succeed, those are what we have to reinvent every year and make sure every one of them is at the best capacity we can provide to help businesses succeed. That’s the future of the chamber, I believe. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 42:47
I love that love that glimpse of the future. I wanted to make sure you had a chance to share any contact information for listeners who might want to reach out learn a little more from us figure out how you guys are doing things are in the Cleveland County Chamber, what would be the best way for someone to reach out and connect with you?

Christine Cribb 43:07
Well, that’s wonderful. They could connect three ways you can certainly connect over messenger on Facebook at my Facebook is Christine Cribb. You could connect via email christine@clevelandchamber.org. And I’m happy to give my spell out 360-632-6533 To reach out best way is a text. If you email as all chamber world knows if you’re at the first email when I sit down, you are in luck, and you are thrilled that I just replied. But if you are the 80th one, you’re like, why isn’t that woman replied to my email yet. So anyway, any of those ways, I’m happy to reach out I’ve mentored a few chamber directors. And I’m just thrilled at this work. I love that we make a difference in the business community. We had a member that came in wanting to do something that was a sponsorship. When I first got here, he did website. And he then got involved in the chamber just from a conversation with staff and myself. He went from seven clients to 32 clients and he’s hiring two new part time people. And it’s because he just immersed himself in getting his card out there and talking to people and attending events and he became an ambassador and he contributes his success with with getting involved in the chamber. So it works.

Brandon Burton 44:39
Yes, I love it. I love it. But Christine, I have enjoyed having you on the show today. I love the enthusiasm, the passion that you bring to your chamber work and sharing the experiences and stories that you’ve experienced, especially over the last two and a half years. As you’ve seen this rapid growth or Cleveland County Chamber I appreciate you putting aside time to be with us today. And wish you the best on reaching that goal of 1000 Plus members there at your chamber thing. Thank you for being with us today.

Christine Cribb 45:16
Thank you so much Brandon. It was such an absolute pleasure and I love this world and I love I love chambers and helping businesses succeed. It’s an absolute pleasure that you had me on as a guest. Thank you.

Brandon Burton 45:28
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Elevating Engagement with Amanda Lea Kaiser

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your hosts Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community. You’re joining us for a special episode as part of our 2023 ACCE Chamber the Year Finalist Series.

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Becki Womble 1:03
I’ve been using Community Matters for probably six or seven years now. And in a previous life, I sold commercial printing so I can highly recommend Community Matters because it’s a complete turnkey job for any busy chamber exec and it’s a wonderful, beautiful printed product whenever you’re finished. And I just I’m very sold on Community Matters. And with a printing background I just big endorsement from me.

Brandon Burton 1:44
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Our guest for this episode is Amanda Lea Kaiser. Amanda is a keynote speaker and author of Elevating Engagement: Uncommon Strategies for Creating a Thriving Member Community. Through her research, Amanda is at the forefront of exploring how member and attendee engagement is rapidly changing when within professional communities. I’ll have to say as a side note, as I read through her book, I very much was able to visualize all of you as listeners, both attending your state and national chamber conferences and engaging on those levels, but also taking some of these lessons learned to your local chamber organization. So as we go through our conversation today, I hope you can see some of those parallels as well. But Amanda, I wanted to welcome you to the show give you a chance to say hello to all the Chamber Champions that are listening and if you wouldn’t mind sharing something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better.

Amanda Lea Kaiser 2:58
All right. Hey, Brandon, thank you so much for having me here on your podcast and hello Chamber Champions. It’s it’s great to be here. Okay, something interesting about myself. So I got my start at Crayola and I rose up the ranks and marketing so I’ve got a classic marketing background. And and now I’m the keynote speaker but maybe even more interesting than that. I’ve got a two kittens adopted me during COVID I don’t know if if you’re a cat dad, but they adopt us I don’t think we adopt them. And and I named them after Muppets. So I love the Muppets, Kermit and all of those guys. So so my cat’s names are Robin in between. And you might see them running in and out because that’s what they do. Awesome.

Brandon Burton 3:44
Yeah, I did notice the Kermit quote in the book as well. So that carries through. I’m not a cat, dad. But I understand what you mean. It doesn’t matter how much you like the cat they have to like you to adopt. Right? Well, I am excited to get into our topic of conversation today. I think chambers across the country, even globally, are constantly thinking about the ways to elevate the engagement of their membership or their investors or those who participate in their organization at at any level. I often will out I’ll hear chambers talk about doing the yellow highlighter exercise where they will print out their membership list and then with a yellow highlighter, go through and mark any chamber member who’s participated or actively engaged with the Chamber in any way. And that may be the main sponsor of their annual banquet. It may be the sponsor of their board room, or maybe just somebody who’s constantly liking their Facebook posts. So literally any level of engagement and as they do this yellow highlighter exercise, oftentimes there’s not a whole lot of Yeah, low on that sheet once it’s marked up. So I think we’ll, we’ll be in for a treat today with a lot of these tips and ideas around how to elevate engagement with our memberships. So we will dive into this discussion as soon as we get back from this quick break.

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Brandon Burton 8:31
All right, Amanda, we’re back. So as I mentioned before the break, we’re, we’re talking about elevating engagement, you’ve got a book all about it. Some could say maybe you’re an expert on it. And I’m a little bit hesitant at all really setting the stage that way. I think I told you before we got on the recording. It’s like introducing a comedian and telling everybody how funny that comedian is and then your your setup to deliver. So you know, no pressure at all, but I’m looking forward to an engaging conversation. Good. So maybe let’s just start with why did you write the book like what what was it about your background and maybe personal history that led up to this moment where you’re like, there needs to be a book about elevating engagement of these membership organizations? Yeah,

Amanda Lea Kaiser 9:21
so Okay, so let me give you just a kind of quick, sober, quick, speedy history to get us to this point. So like I said, I started at Crayola. And then I had a couple of jobs in my career where I worked at an advertising agency and then I landed in a NAT at a national association. So I worked I worked in for a higher ed Association. Super cool. It was the first time that I even realized that associations and chambers and they were even a thing I just didn’t know until that point until I started working for them and I was director of marketing there. And and it just completely We opened my eyes. And I was so delighted by how collegial these professional groups are. They’re, they’re really fantastic. So I decided to open up my own business. And I was a qualitative researcher, my, my marketing focus has always been on research. And I decided to pursue the qualitative research side of things. And during my time, as a qualitative researcher, I worked with 33 different associations and got a chance to personally talk to 477 members from all different walks of life. And the conversations with them did two things, one, I would ask them about their industry or their profession. And the second thing that I asked them about was, what is it like to be a member? What is it like to attend? You know, what is engagement like, and all of that, and as I was conducting these interviews, one thing that I found is there’s this gap between members, and attendees and, and leadership, right. And so, so that’s why I wrote the book, I wanted to close that gap. And just to give you a sense of the gap is, is, you know, members, our members are having an experience there, whenever they engage with us, they’re having an experience, and very often when we’re on the inside, and I can say this, for sure, as the as being a staff person on an association, a lot of what we’re trying to do is we’re trying to provide value, we’re trying to do the administrative stuff very right. And we’re not, we’re not focused on the experience. And so, so that’s what this book is all about. The book is all about closing the gap. And and I’m also doing a ton of keynoting. Right now. And so I start out every time by saying we’re here to close that gap between you and your members.

Brandon Burton 11:52
Yeah, I like that. I think that’s a good summary. And that does kind of set the stage a little bit here. So my background is in chamber publishing. And often I’ll even joke with some of the different advertisers Chamber members that were selling ads to that. I often will hear a chamber member say that they want to advertise and whatever the chamber publication is, because there’s almost a sense of guilt, that they join the chamber at some point. And they see all the emails from the chamber about the networking mixer, the after hours, the Chamber luncheon, annual banquet, you know, there’s always something that golf tournament. And there’s a sense of guilt that they can’t be at all of the things, you know, they work during the day, so they can’t go to the luncheon or they’ve got family life after work. So they can’t go to the after hours. So they see doing some sort of advertising with the chamber as a way to engage. So how would you look at engagement? How do you define engagement? As you look at a membership organization, I guess what counts when it comes to? To engagement? Yeah, yeah.

Amanda Lea Kaiser 13:04
So So advertising counts and attending accounts. So so let me let me kind of step back, though, because what I tend to do is I tend to define engagement, the way a member would defined engagement and the way members define engagement is almost solely around emotions. And I actually, I asked when I when I keynote, I asked my audience this, I’ll ask them what is what does engagement feel like when you’re really engaged? What does that feel like? And I’ll ask them to, to recount a professional or personal community that they’re very, very engaged in, you know, what, when that makes their heart very happy. And so this is some of what they’ll say they’ll they’ll say, I feel valued. I feel welcomed, I feel belonging, connected, excited, inspired, it’s energizing, I feel included. I feel focused, I feel peaceful, I feel worthy. I feel like I’m being seen. That’s just some of the words this is I got 139 responses. But those are some of the key words that came up over and over again, so. So engagement is all about emotions. And when you’re when your members or our members are making decisions to engage, they’re making very emotional decisions. That what they’re what they’re what they’re trying to work out and might not be even conscious. But unconsciously they’re trying to say is this community for people like me, do people like me join a chamber like this? You know, do people like me go to events like this? Do Am I gonna find my people here? Am I gonna be long am I you know, all of those things. That’s, that’s the kind of what’s going on in the back of their minds. And so, I, I love to define engagement all around how members see engagement, because you’re right when we when we on the business side, talk about engagement. We’re talking about joins and when rules and registrations and opens and reads and click throughs and all of that. So we’re talking about the metrics of engagement. But I love to think about engagement as that, that very emotional emotions and feelings that drive those decisions to engage. And so that’s that’s typically where I’m coming from. Yeah.

Brandon Burton 15:26
What you said almost sound like a Seth Godin quote, right? People like us do things like this. Yeah. And it’ll often talked about enrollment, right? So the engagement level kind of at Next stage is yes, I want to engage. And now I’m going to enroll I am all in, I’m going to fully participate. And I know that’s a few steps down from where how you kind of break down that, that member journey, or that the experience journey. So maybe touch on that a little bit, because I think so much of that, the beginning of that membership journey is where that emotion really is probably at its peak. There’s some reason why they’re choosing to attend the conference or choosing to join the chamber. And I’ll say everybody does it for slightly different reasons. But understanding what that emotion what that driver is, I think, is so key to being able to help them have a successful journey going forward with the chamber. Yeah, can outline that for

Amanda Lea Kaiser 16:28
us? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So I’m so glad that you started touching on well, you know, what, what happens at the beginning, because So, for most professional communities, what they find is new members are the most fragile members. And, and so, you know, people, if you look at your metrics, you might see people join, and then they never engage. And then it’s not a surprise when they don’t renew, right, and, and so, so they’re very, very fragile. And, and so what we need to do is start appealing to their emotions, one of the one of the things that I often will say, when people are asking for, like, what is the definition of engagement, I’ll say, there’s two parts, there’s, there’s value, so we got to provide value. And the other part is positive experiences. So you want to provide good value and positive experiences. And when you do that, members will engage. And I would wager to bet that your chambers provide lots of amazing value, you know, people, all of you chamber pros, you’re doing all of these events, you’re publishing, you’re emailing, you’re providing all kinds of really amazing things and lots and lots of value. And it’s, it’s frustrating when people aren’t joining, and or it’s or renewing or engaging in, in some way. And so the, the piece that’s often missing is the experience part, the the part that triggers all of the emotions, and, and so this is very salient for new members, you know, new members join, they often don’t understand how to really engage, there is the old the emails are coming in there is I’ve heard that, Brandon, that guilt factor that you were talking about in so from so many different types of members, you know, they’re, they’re sending me emails, I feel like I and what they will say is, I’m not engaging, and it’s, it’s my fault. It’s not them, they’re, they’re making every effort, it’s me, right? And, and I can see that there’s a lot of benefits, I can see that there’s a lot of events and in what they would normally tell me is I feel like I’ve got to start going to these events, which I can never do, because the timing doesn’t work out. Or I’ve got to spend a lot of time on their website, understanding what they do. And I just don’t I don’t have the time yet. And, and so I think what we need to figure out is how to connect a lot quicker with them, you know, how to have how to provide a teeny bit of value so that they understand that taking that leap to come to your events makes a lot of sense. And also connecting on that emotional level. And you do that with experiences. So are there phone calls? Are there? Is there kind of a special quick Fitbit fun email that you could write to them, you know, what are all of the experiences that you can provide to new members that will get them saying this is not only going to be worth my time, but I think that this is going to be a really fun group. There’s a lot of energy. I’m super excited.

Brandon Burton 19:35
Yeah. And as you’re saying that it reminds me in the chamber industry, there’s a lot of focus on with the engagement of members to try to make the shift from being a transactional relationship to be more of a transformational relationship and that way, hopefully, if that’s communicated and modeled in correct ways, the guilt factor hopefully isn’t there. as much because they’re not in it, they didn’t join to say what’s in it for me, but they’re they joined to be part of something bigger, that’s making a positive impact in their community. I see some chambers that have the option to join their chamber right on their website, we can enter your name, credit card information, and click Submit. And you’re done. You’re a member. And I’m sure there’s the onboarding emails that come in. But that chamber doesn’t know anything about that member, why they joined, they didn’t really share their mission, their vision, any of that. And oftentimes, those are coming from another member as a referral. So you know, you need to be a part of the chamber, right? So I think right from the beginning, there tends to be a little bit of a disconnect. And I love in the book, you talked about doing a listening tour. And I think that could probably come in and in a couple different stages along the member journey. But to really tap into that emotion and their why you want to maybe expand a little bit on the listening tour, and how that can kind of pull on that emotion. Yeah,

Amanda Lea Kaiser 21:08
absolutely. So let me let me give you a couple of tangible stories that I heard dirt while I was while I was interviewing members. So. So there’s a couple of associations that were doing a really good job, and I got a chance to figure out what they were doing from their member saying I was on I was the recipient of the listening tour. And so there’s one, one association that did a very interesting thing. Now they had not very many members joining. It wasn’t like they were having hundreds of members join every week, they might have been having 10s of members join every week. And and so the the director of marketing of that particular organization, would schedule a call, it was about a 20 minute call with every single new member. And during that call, she would ask them a series of questions, you know, hey, tell me about yourself. And when did you start working at this company? Or when did you you know, when did you start the company? She would, she would ask them questions about projects, they were working on what their goals were, what their mission was, what if they’re having any challenges, she might even ask them, you know, what, tell me about some trends. And she would, she would take careful notes, and she listen intently. And at the end of the call, probably with maybe, I don’t know, three, four minutes to go, she would say this has been so interesting. And there’s a couple of things that I heard you talk about, that we might be able to help out with, there’s you talked about this really interesting project that you’re working on. And not many of our members are working on a project like this, but I know that Sue is. And I would love to introduce you, it’d be okay, if I introduced you to Sue, I think she’s a couple of steps ahead of you. And, but you know, I can introduce you via email in and then she will, she would also say and I also heard you talk about this system, that we’ve got some data from some of our research, or we’ve got an event coming up where we’re going to be talking about this topic, we’d love to have you I’m going to follow up with some emails. And so you know, she get off the phone and immediately send some emails, one introducing that new member to sue a longtime member and tell in telling Sue and you know, reminding this this person while why she was introducing them, and then she would follow up with a separate email saying, hey, you know, as we were talking, I told you, I was going to send you this research report and this invite to this event and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So that that’s very time consuming very hands on for this organization that works. Because they don’t have a lot of members. Other organizations, there is the listening tour where you get into your car, you know, or your your get your staff into a van, and you book breakfast, lunch and dinner. Or you go to people’s offices or places of work or factories and and you spend 15 or 20 minutes with them doing the same kind of thing, asking them questions, touring, just being there letting them be seen. And it’s such a pleasure because now when they come to an event, they already know a friendly face. So there’s there’s that part. The other thing is if you are with a chamber that’s maybe spans a large geographic area, there’s a virtual orientation events. Now the virtual orientation events are not orientation webinars, there are much more responsive than that. So so people come you know, your new members come into a Zoom meeting. And then you ask them the same kind of questions, you know, where, where do you work what what kind of organization is your company? Tell us a little bit about it. What are some of your goals? What are some of the projects that you’re working on? And then as everybody’s feeding information to you, you the host can do some pattern matching for the biggest things that people are They’re struggling with and then make that link for them between their problem back to the to what the chamber provides in terms of, of benefits or upcoming meetings or something like that. So. So I love that you were talking about, you know, these these member listening tours, because there’s so many ways that they actually work, Brandon. And that’s really the key to it all. When when you know your members and you hear them talking over and over about their goals, then then we serve them a lot better. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 25:30
there was one chamber executive I talked to one time and he talked about how he’ll do three breakfasts each day, they’ll go meet with different members there. The first one maybe is just having a coffee is the second breakfast, awesome makes the third one, maybe a phase three. So he’s breaking it up. But he’s getting to three different member businesses to have these breakfasts. And he’s meeting with other members there. So like the levels of engagement with the organization with the members is on multiple levels, and able to gather a lot of that very important information to be able to better serve the member. And I love that. So it does kind of seem like though in today with everything digital, and we’ve got in person events, we got virtual events, we get emails, get social media, we’ve got podcasts, we’ve got YouTube, we’ve got all these different ways to get our messaging out there. Does that make it harder or easier to engage members? Like how it I think I can see both sides of the coin, but I’d love to hear your approach and maybe how chambers might want to look at this. Yeah,

Amanda Lea Kaiser 26:41
what I’m hearing across the board is, is engagement is getting harder, it’s harder to engage attendees most virtually and in person, it’s harder, harder to engage members, it’s harder to get those opens and reads. It’s just I think it’s harder. And some people are saying, you know, this is not uniform. There’s some associations and some chambers that are seeing these bright spots, like, hey, we went back into person. And and, and we’ve got some of our in person events are doing amazing. And we’re still doing virtual, and some of those are doing amazing. So this is not, engagement isn’t universally going down the tubes. But I think it is getting harder. And one of the reasons why it’s getting harder is is really time and attention. You just hit on it, Brandon, there’s so many ways that we’re trying to reach members. But there’s so many ways that they’re getting content and they’re connecting. And they’re you know that it’s just sort of, we all have a very frantic pace of life these days. And so we’ve got to do something different to engage members than what we did before. And I’m so glad that you asked that question about communications, because this is sort of a really great time to talk about how you not only provide value, but you also provide the experience so so every time we communicate, there’s two things that we’re trying to do. The first is the what we say. And that’s the value, it’s the message we’re trying to get across. The second thing we’re trying to do is is or the second thing we communicate is how we say it. And this is the tone, it’s the voice. And and this might be something that you’ve talked about a lot in publishing is the tone or the voice. And so I love to think about tone on a continuum. And so on one side of the continuum, there’s the very institutional tone, the very professional polished tone, it’s a lot of big words, it’s when we’ve got our business hat on, that’s the tone we tend to fall into is the institutional tone. On the other end of the continuum, I have a what I call the best friend forever tone, sometimes we’ll also call it the happy dog tone. So if you go into your personal email, and you read, you just quickly, like scan your personal email of all of the brands and companies and products you really love. They’re talking to you and the happy dog tone, there’s emoji, there’s hashtags, it’s casual, they’re talking to you like they’re your best friend. But for some reason, when we’re doing business to business, and we put our business hats on, we talk very, we tend to talk very institutional. And so I just like to remind everybody, that tone is on a continuum, and you can pick anywhere you want to be, and especially with your new members, they’re they’re looking for all of those cues on whether to belong, you know, is this the place for people like me, they’re looking for those belonging cues. And when you can warm up your tone in your emails or warm up your tone and your phone calls, you know, or any of the information you’re sending out to new members. They the sense that they sense that this is going to be a happy, warm, lovely place for them to meet other people and connect.

Brandon Burton 29:54
Yeah. So when I think of, maybe an in person or even a virtual event I think to on an event stage, it’s a maybe a little easier to gauge the engagement. You can see if people are looking down at their phone or distracted or getting up to get a drink or, you know, just the distraction, where as we try to with these communication channels, I’d love that you brought the the tone and the voice into the happy dog messaging. Besides maybe some of these metrics that we look at the open rates and social engagement tools, are there other ways that we can see if our message is landing, right? If we’re how do we get that kind of feedback when we’re not in a room or a Zoom Room even to be able to get that that instant? Hopefully, positive feedback. Yeah,

Amanda Lea Kaiser 30:47
yeah. So people are always asking me how, how do you measure engagement and and there are, you know, I think when your members are doing the yellow highlighter exercise, they’re measuring engagement, looking at your renewals, it’s a measured metric and a measure of engagement. And so as you’re engaging members and attendees differently, you’re going to see that metric go up some some organizations use Net Promoter Score, some of them do things as sophisticated as Engagement scoring. And so again, over time, if you’re, if you’re focused on those experiences, you’re gonna see those those metrics go up. But, but it’s engagement is a tough one. Because it’s very hard to make one change, it’s very hard to say, Okay, we’re gonna make this one event more experiential, and we’re gonna see renewals fly off the chart, that’s not the way it works, right? There’s, there’s, there’s not a lot of like one to one direct comparisons, you just sort of see a general lift over time. So So I think sometimes we have to measure engagement, again, with our own emotions, which is, you know, is there what’s the energy like? Okay, so we’re making it we’re making some improvements to try to be more engaging and say this one event? Was the energy better? Did people walk out smiling, you know, for virtual, one of the things that I think is a really good predictor of a virtual meeting is what’s going on with the chat. Now, you can do a lot of things to have a really robust chat and as a, as a very often speaker, I love the robust chat. I love when I’m talking. And people are busy in the chat and they’re talking to each other. And they’re asking each other questions and they’re tuning in to listen to me and they’re plussing up what I say and then plussing up what everybody else says. And that’s for me that schools because because they’re sure they might be listening to me and engaging with me, but they’re in if they’re engaging with each other. That’s lovely, too. So, so if you’re doing lots of virtual events have chat ambassadors in there. And that can be a micro volunteering opportunity for one of your members. Or it could be a staff, you know, job, but have those chat ambassadors in there that are, you know, they’re plussing up what other people say? And they’re asking questions, and they’re, they’re kind of saying, Oh, this, you know, the speaker said this, what do you think about this, everybody and, and really try to foster that excitement and get it going. And that’s, that’s You’ll sense the energy, you’ll, you’ll sense it, whether you’re virtual or in person, and that that’s almost I think, is Valley or it is as valid as some of those tangible metrics.

Brandon Burton 33:26
Yeah. So I hope this doesn’t feel like we’re taking a step back. But I was thinking about the emotion as people engage with an organization that emotion is, you’re able to maybe give them some small wins along the way. So in the book, you talk about, like speaking from stage, there’s little engagement questions or things you can do to warm up the room, right. So they’re engaging on a very minimal risk or risk free environment where they have nothing to lose if they just participate and engage. And as a member joins an organization. And there’s other little quick wins, I’ll say that you can do to kind of trigger that emotion or positively reinforced that emotion of yes, you’re here for a good reason. We’re here to listen to like, all of those things. Are there any strategies or tips that you want to share around maybe those small quick wins to warm up the audience or the new member, to help encourage them to give them that confidence to be able to engage at higher levels as they progress through their their membership journey?

Amanda Lea Kaiser 34:38
Yeah, let me let me tell you about a totally unexpected story that I heard when I was doing those interviews and it’s a it’s a story that I heard over and over and over in different ways with different words. But what I would hear people say is I went to my very first event for this organization. And while I was waiting in the registration Mine welcomer I didn’t know it at the time, but people were circulating, and they were talking to all of us in the line. And in somebody stopped and talked to me, and it was maybe just two sentences. And it was it, it made me feel like this community is super open and warm and welcoming. And it and I felt like I had to step out of my shell and I am going to, to just talk to other people, I’m going to introduce myself to other people and just see how it goes. And so, so it’s like, new members come in, and we have to give them the teeniest little nudge or a teeny little bit of permission, so that they can go and make their experience great for themselves. And so whenever we can do that, it’s great. So So let’s see, how do you do that you can do that with welcomers that in person events, you know, kind of warming up the crowd for in person or virtual events. Think about your icebreaker, you know, what is what is a an icebreaker question or an activity that is super safe and super easy. And so I’ll give you just an example, when I’m getting together a group and I want to get them to be really creative, I want to I want the group bubbling up lots of ideas, I want them collaborating with each other. And the topic is not is not very serious, you know, it’s we’re working on, we’re just going to work together on this problem. And we’re gonna have a really great time doing it. One of the questions that I love to ask is, would you like to be a dragon? Or have a dragon and why? And in the why is the key, you know, you can pick either one, but I love to ask why. And so you can ask that, you know, in person, with a smaller group, you can ask it on, you know, virtual meeting and get people responding in the chat. But that, you know, again, you’re you’re popping them out of the expected stuff. And in the their professional world, and you’re bringing them into sort of a different surprising experience where they can have a little bit of fun with it. They tap in their answer, and now they’ve started participating, which is half the battle, because once once you start once, then you’ll you’ll form that habit and you’ll keep participating. That’s

Brandon Burton 37:12
awesome. Having read the book, I knew that was the question you’re gonna you’re gonna bring up it’s I was waiting for the dragon question. So I’m glad you glad you brought it out. As we begin to wrap things up here, I wanted to ask usually I’ll ask for maybe a tip or action item for listeners who want to take their organization up to the next level. And what you would offer I think I may want to read phrase that too, for an organization that a chamber listening who would like to level up the engagement of their members to the next level? Where should they start? Yeah,

Amanda Lea Kaiser 37:50
yeah, absolutely. Oh, let me backtrack and tell you one other one. So if you’re looking for more icebreakers, or energizers the other one that is surprisingly, super fun, and people get you know, they have this very fun argument about it is, is a hot dog a sandwich. So what do you think Brandon? Is the hot dog sandwich? Or is it not a sandwich?

Brandon Burton 38:13
I’m gonna go yes. Is it the same way a cheesesteak is the sandwich.

Amanda Lea Kaiser 38:17
Oh, there you go. Yeah. Yeah. So so interesting. Usually, usually groups completely divide. And there’s some squabbling around if a hotdog is a sandwich and to my knowledge, there’s no real answer, you know, just like, Alright, are you know, is white chocolate, chocolate, you know, again, you get the you know, those are those are fun cup questions to ask.

Brandon Burton 38:40
In cornbread, and you have a corndog. Now, that’s a whole nother topic. I don’t agree with that. Yes,

Amanda Lea Kaiser 38:47
yeah. Yeah, that feels not sandwich like to me, but yeah, yeah, absolutely. Okay, so. So what, you know, what can they do to take things to the next level, what, what I would suggest is go and start identifying all of your transactions anytime you have a transaction. So joining as a transaction renewing as a transaction, opening an email is transaction registering as a transaction registration at your events as a transaction. And in so think about and so like, anytime the staff has a job to do, you’re doing administrative stuff for that transaction. So think about how you can seamlessly keep doing the administrative part of it, and then layer the expensive experience on top of it. So that’s, that’s how you close that gap is to keep doing what you’re doing in terms of the transaction and the administrative stuff, but now figure out how to layer the positive experience on top. It’s easier than you think it is. So like, let’s say you’re, you’re you’re doing registration at one of your events, and you’ve got you know, 100 people coming through the door, and you need to give them all badges within 10 minutes or something like that, you know, people are coming at you, and you’ve got to log them. And you got to give them all their badges, even even in those moments where you’re so busy and so frantic, just smile, like just keep giving them a genuine smile. And now you’ve layered on that positive experience. I

Brandon Burton 40:22
love that. And I was thinking, I don’t know, man, I don’t know if this holds true all the way through or not. But if, in talking about those micro wins, as you know, micro positive experiences and micro engagements. Hopefully, if they’re engaging on that small risk free level, a way of maybe measuring that as if they’re engaging again, like if they’re taking another step, you know, on that journey. And if they’re, if they’re stalling out, if you make that initial engagement, and they stall out, maybe the communication needs to be refined, maybe you need to get more information. But they hopefully should be making another step and other engagement along the way. Would you agree with that? Or is that just totally my own thought? totally

Amanda Lea Kaiser 41:13
right. So I have identified it fine. I’ve identified six stages of engagement, and is exactly what you’re talking about that that at each stage, there’s generally speaking, a barrier for people to take that next step into the next stage of engagement. And so to the extent that we can be aware of all of those six, six stages, and just constantly helping people have those micro wins, and in sort of taking that next step, if they want to, one, one thing that happens is you know, sometimes like, boards will get burnt out and a new member, a new face will come to an event for the first time and a board member will rush up and say, We’re so happy you’re here. Have you ever thought about being on the board and the new members panicking and saying, oh my gosh, I don’t even know who you people are yet. And so you can’t rush people up the six stages of engagement, but what you can do is make the opportunity available if they want to. So if you you know, the book is elevating engagement, and right there in the beginning, I detail all of the six stages, and each chapter is devoted to one of those stages. And I talk about the the kind of go no go decisions that members are making at every single one of those stage stages. And then I just try to give you hundreds of ideas for helping them move from one stage to the next. Again, if they want to work, we don’t rush them, we just make those opportunities all available to them. And, and yeah, I think I love I was taking notes while you were talking Brandon, because this idea of micro wins or micro engagements. I just I love that terminology. And I hadn’t thought about it or articulated it that way. So if you don’t mind, I’d like to steal that from you. Because I think it’s cool.

Brandon Burton 43:04
Yeah, just reference me twice. And then you can own it after that. So a real life example that, that I was reminded of and reading the book, you you mentioned that the board members, you know, maybe seeking a replacement for their seat during the board recruitment. So my, my wife was the volleyball Commissioner for our local youth volleyball organization. And our two youngest, well, all of our girls played volleyball through it. So we felt invested. And she was giving back to the community and doing her thing and just ended up with a lot of things on her plate. And she was completely overwhelmed. It was draining all of her energy. So she would talk to the other volleyball moms, she would say, this is wiping me out. Do you want to take it from me? Do you want to do you want to do this? And everyone kept saying, No, it was like, You need to change your approach. This doesn’t have to be a bad thing. It doesn’t have to be a negative experience. You don’t need to lie to them, but just share what it entails, share what the upsides are, and let them make a decision. But if you sell it as you know, this is so time consuming and is totally drained me. I think the example he gave in the book is a board member saying you know, I’ve I’ve been affected finite, you know, negatively financially, you know, in serving on the board. Nobody’s gonna want to take your spot, right. So you don’t want to scare people away with being over engaged, maybe? Yeah, yeah.

Amanda Lea Kaiser 44:35
And then then a staff members, we can also get a handle on that as well. You know, if, if we feel like it’s hard for volunteers to volunteer, we can look at their roles. We can look at the time commitment, we can look at dividing things up we can but just like it just like we were talking about with new members, you know, we want to take new members and give them that little nudge to help them keep progressing along their membership journey, you can do the same thing with volunteers. I love thinking about the volunteer journey as well. And, you know, start the volunteer journey with a micro volunteering opportunity and then slowly build. And I think a lot of time as a staff people, we tend to think about volunteer roles is very specific things if you’re on a board, if you’re on a committee, those are volunteer roles, but to members welcoming as a volunteer role speaking is volunteer role hosting as volunteer role, right, and, and so, so think about all of those non traditional things that we want to do to engage members like like being a chat ambassador, and have that be a volunteer role. And, and so, you know, maybe people are spending three minutes volunteering, or 10 minutes volunteering, or 30 minutes volunteering, but now you’ve just flex their muscles so that if there’s a chance to do another volunteer role, they might take you up on it. Right.

Brandon Burton 45:59
I love that. So I like asking everyone that I have on the show this question that as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, and I’ll broaden that and say, just associations in general, how do you see the future of chambers and associations going forward?

Amanda Lea Kaiser 46:17
Yeah, I see it really bright. There’s, there’s such a need, you know, when, whenever there’s a need in the community, there’s the business propositions, I think the future is really bright. And it’s just about how to engage differently. And I, from the research, I see that the answer is in the experiential side of things. And again, I think I said this a little bit earlier that I would wager to bet a lot of your chambers are offering a ton of value. And if you offer even more value, that’s great. But it might not get you to engagement, what you got to start doing is focusing on those positive experiences. And so a really quick way to think about that in this is something that you can play with you with your staff or talk to your board about or your committees about is just start saying, you know, the any, anytime somebody starts asking what do our members need, you know, what do our website visitors need? What are our attendees need? What do people need? Start laying or layering on that question, which is how do we want them to feel? And so? So when you ask, how do we want them to feel? And this is an easy thing that we that you could try even tomorrow, right? The next time you’re writing an email, think, how do I want the reader to feel and you kind of lock in that emotion in your brain that you want them to feel happy or joyful or hopeful or something like that. And when you type your message will actually totally change in quality? In in, that’s a really great experience. So just always, always keep asking, How do I want people to feel? How do I want them to feel when they come to our website? How do I want them to feel when they walk in the door of our event? How do I want them to feel when they’re advertising or hosting or sponsoring or any of those things. And that that’ll that’ll get you to the experiences part. I

Brandon Burton 48:11
love that that’s a good gauge right there just to kind of make sure that what we’re doing is the right thing and getting people to to engage and feel good and hit on those emotions that brought them there in the first place. So Amanda, I enjoyed this conversation and having you on the podcast, I wanted to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for listeners who may want to reach out and connect or share where they can find your book or anything like that, that you’d like to share with the audience feel free.

Amanda Lea Kaiser 48:42
Yeah, absolutely. So you can find me at amandaleakaiser.com. It’s Amanda, Lea, and then Kaiser like the role.com. There’s information about the book there. It’s there’s information about speaking, there’s a newsletter all about engagement that I put out once once a week that you can sign up for if you’d like or you can type elevating engagement into Amazon or any online bookseller and you’ll find my book there.

Brandon Burton 49:09
I love it. Well get that in our show notes for this episode. But like I said, this has been an engaging conversation and I hope the listeners feel so as well. And that it may prompt them to make some micro wins to put themselves out there a little bit to touch on those emotions understand why their members are there and what can you do to make them feel the way that you’d want them to feel. So Amanda, thanks again for being with us today and for sharing your your insights and for for sharing this book as well.

Amanda Lea Kaiser 49:41
Thank you so much, Brandon, this has been delightful.

Brandon Burton 49:45
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