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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.
Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your hosts Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community. You’re joining us for a special episode as part of our 2023 ACCE Chamber the Year Finalist Series.
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Brandon Burton 1:44
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Our guest for this episode is Velma Knowles, Velma is a Gallup strength certified coach, human behavioral expert and best selling author from helping to build the Conservation Legacy of the Bahamas to leading award winning membership growth for associations. Boundless passion is helping organizations build a value driven culture of belonging. Velma enjoys photographing birds riding bikes and pretending she likes to exercise, Velma and mix excited to have you with us today on Chamber Chat Podcast, I’d love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the Chamber Champions who are out there listening and to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little bit better.
Velma Knowles 2:37
Well, Brandon, thank you so much for having me here today on your Chamber Chat Podcast. And thank you for the kind introduction. Something that listeners might not know about me, other than you’ve revealed my big secret, which is I’m from the islands of the Bahamas, now living here in the United States. But one of the things that they may not know is that I cut a demo recording at the age of 17 in the hopes of becoming a big country and western singer, which we know by the end of this episode, that did not happen.
Brandon Burton 3:18
That’s exciting, though. Not everybody can say that. And it’s kind of putting their their neck out there. So to speak, and and take a risk. So good job. So I’m curious where in the Bahamas are you from? Yeah,
Velma Knowles 3:31
so I was originally born on the island, the island of Nassau New Providence, like so officially now. And I have family throughout mostly in the Abacos and in Long Island.
Brandon Burton 3:43
Okay, well, hopefully you have a chance to get back there often.
Velma Knowles 3:47
So I do try to go several several times a year. Yeah, that’s
Brandon Burton 3:52
great. So I like giving all of the guests that I have on the show and opportunity just to tell a little bit about the work that you do. Kind of your business structure how you serve, especially when it comes specifically to Chambers of Commerce. How your your work aligns with chambers. Sure.
Velma Knowles 4:12
Yeah. Thank you again for that opportunity. For those that might not know me or a little bit about me, my career includes 20 Plus, and I always say plus because after 20 years to stop counting, but yeah, does 20 years working inside so I’m one that has been inside the not for not for profit space, especially in the association and world of providing services to members. And my span of expertise encompasses marketing, a membership engagement, retention and growth board, strategic planning and engagement and then of course, leadership development. And I want to just caveat that leaders To me are across the organization, they’re not those that are in higher positions. But I think everyone in the organization is a leader in one way or another. My last position was the vice president of member experience with a little brand that folks might have heard of called AAA. And so today, triple A services about 60 million members across the United States, and then Canada, Europe worldwide for the other arms of that Federation. In 2017, I had the opportunity to venture out on my own, and I felt called to serve more associations. And so today, I have my own business. It’s called leaders pathway where leaders go to grow. And that word leaders means you as the individual and your organization, I believe that your organization can only grow higher as you as the leader grows higher. And so it all starts inside, in order for it to grow outside. I work with chambers, not for profit, which could be donor based organizations, member based organ associations across the country. And my focus is really to help them create this culture of belonging where the members, the employees, and the board, which is that that ultimate leadership in there, they feel like they belong in that organization. And I know we’ll talk a little bit more about that as we go forward. But I truly believe that when you as an a leader of a member based organization, when you create that culture of belonging, you’re going to solve the challenges that you face around engagement, which I know is like top of the line and on everyone’s buying, retention, which we are we’re struggling with across the board, and then ultimately moving from stagnation or, you know, a declining growth to a sustainable model for growth. So I hope that level sets a little bit about me, I do executive coaching, I do strategic planning, I do public speaking for workshops, and conferences. And I also do employee retreats and membership planning. Very
Brandon Burton 7:18
good. Now, that definitely gives us a good snapshot of the work that you’re involved with. And I love the focus on leadership. And I think no matter what position you serve at at a chamber, that you are a leader, you’re helping to drive the vision for your community. And if you are the chamber executive, you should be thinking about training the next leader, right? So at some point, you will leave and you want to make sure you’re leaving the organization in a good position to continue growing and have that strength. And I love to you when in the context of leaders, you talked about kind of hitting the the potential and everything I think it’s John Maxwell talks about the lid, yes, the organization is only as as good as the leader right if the leader caps at a certain point and the organization caps so we want to be able to unleash that lid so that the organization can grow so well Velma and I’m excited to get into our conversation today. And we’ll be focusing our you know, the bulk of our conversation around the idea of fostering a sense of belonging as you alluded to, and specifically to impact membership growth. So we will dive deeper into this conversation as soon as they get back from this quick break.
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Brandon Burton 11:50
All right, Velma. We’re back. So as we talk about fostering a sense of belonging to impact membership growth, what does that look like? From your perspective? I know you had mentioned, you know, fostering a sense of belonging for members B, it also mentioned for the board. So how do these dynamics play together for the strength of the organization? Yeah,
Velma Knowles 12:12
sure. Well, if the if you haven’t heard me speak yet, you’ll you’ll hear this message over and over again. And that is that I believe that there are three things that everyone everyone wants in life, it doesn’t matter if you are the board member, the member of the organization, the staff and employees, there’s three things that everyone wants. And what they want is to be seen, to be heard, and to be valued. See, to me fostering a sense of belonging is you have to build a connection. And in order to do that, you need to be able to see people for who they are to hear them the voice and the things that are on their mind. And then to value them and their contribution. Engagement is not an activity. And when I when I look at what the you know, my my clients are doing what chambers and associations or member organizations in general, what they do is there like a heavy focus on engagement, and I totally my whole heart understand why. But engagement is is not an activity that you do, you don’t, you know, have this webinar or have this conference to get people engaged or recruit people into volunteer, it’s about a connection. And when people are connected to the mission, and when they’re connected to the individuals. That’s when you see this sense of belonging happening. I’ll give you a good example. Myself, okay, I was a member of an organization that shall remain anonymous, because we’re not promoting anyone. And then, you know, this worldwide pandemic, came into play some time in our life here. And in the end, all of a sudden, a lot of things kind of shut down. And so when it was time to renew my membership, I was like, Well, you know, I can’t I can’t go to the functions that can’t do things the normal way. And so I, I paused, I know, I paused my membership, or full disclosure, and I said, I’m not going to renew. And then you know, as things started to get back into what we would consider the next stage of this work, force, the next work environment that we’re in and, and moving on to the future. I said, you know, what, I miss my connections. I miss the people that I was so close to when I was there. And so literally, I really, you know, reinstated my my membership and they took me back. And the big idea whether it was a webinar, which is, you know, a service you provide, or whether it was the annual conference, or whether it was the mag Xen I got or whether it was, you know, a lunch and learn that they had or coffee club that you got to go to whatever the Chamber’s had available to us. It was an opportunity to connect with those people that I have a relationship with. And so I say that to say that when you create a sense of belonging, you’re really creating a place for people to connect. People need to feel like I’m seeing when I’m there, people recognize me, Hey, Brian, great to see you. I, you know, me, and you’re connecting with me, you hear me? If I tell you that I have this problem or this challenge in my business, you hear what I have to say. And it’s not just listening for the sake of listening, but it’s listening with a focus on how do you help me solve that? And if you can’t solve it specifically from the chamber, how can you connect me to a resource that you might have that can help you solve that? And then do you value me, and I don’t mean value in the sense of the dollars that I pay for my membership, I mean, value me in the sense that you appreciate what I can bring to the table, maybe there’s a specific strength that I have, or a specific expertise that you could tap into, that is a resource for someone else in my community here in my chamber, that that has a need. And so I just feel like personal connections, build engagement. And engagement is, is fortifies retention, and retention gives you results. But connections are not products. It’s a personal connection. It’s not a product, like a webinar, or conference, or any of the beautiful things that we use, those are just vehicles to help us create that connection.
Brandon Burton 16:59
So you’re really upsetting the paradigm they’re not an activity and personal connections are not a product. Right? So, man. I appreciate the three things you talked about. Everybody needs to be seen, heard and valued. And, and I think from a board perspective, as as a chamber executive working with the board, I think those three things are, they’re super important to implement. And I think you can be very strategic with how you do that. Because you’re, you’re dealing with a limited, you know, a finite amount of people, right, that you’re trying to have seen be seen, heard and valued. As you open that up to the membership in general, everybody tends to join the chamber for different reasons. They I mean, they all join probably to raise their bottom line, right to make a little more money, benefit their company, but the way they the vehicles to get there, they see different value with the chamber. Right. So as a chamber approaches individual members, how do you make those personal connections to help them be seen heard and valued? Sure.
Velma Knowles 18:15
Yeah. And I think it gets to how do you create those communities within the community. And and I say that because coming from, you know, working inside a very large Association, and then working voluntarily with some chambers offering support to help them in their membership growth. As a member of that chamber. What I’ve found is that, you know, all members are important. Get ready for this one, but all members are not equal. And so what that means is that if you as a an association, you have a very small staff, even if you’re a big chamber, you have a small staff, and you can’t be all things to all people. And so marketing segmentation, which is not anything new here, but really trying to understand that 8020 principle, but warming what is known as these micro communities, or a community or, you know, a special interest group is another way of labeling it, but it’s a community within the community. So you have a member base, and then you look at that member base, and you say, who’s really, you know, my, my big 8020? Right, the the members that are truly engaged, that are volunteering, that are sponsoring that are doing the things that elevate the whole chamber, and then you say what of those individuals what is the needs that they have and form groups so that other people can connect on a smaller scale to get their problem solved and see a greater value in In the return for the dollars that they’re investing in, so I think it begins with really understanding, you know, where it where are the chamber champions, we will use your word a coin here, which I love. Where are those champions, those chamber friends that are inside the association and organization? And how can you create those sub communities that allow others to come in and feel seen, heard and valued, because it’s a smaller group, where everyone can have a place? You know, when you when you when you look back, and you research the whole idea around? Why chambers exists? Why, why what is a chamber of commerce, a Chamber of Commerce is really a place to, we’ll use the word network, which is the kind of the old school hat, right? Because that kind of has a different connotation. What is networking, ooh, nobody likes to network, I want to bring that forward to today’s and I want to modernize it in the 21st century. And it’s connection, it is not networking here, here’s a business card like speed date, it’s truly connecting and being seen, heard and valued. And I think when we can put on that, that member, first that people first sense of, of a culture, we’re trying to build those connections in a genuine way. And I really want to say genuine, genuine rapport. That’s when you reap the benefits of greater engagement, retention and growth.
Brandon Burton 21:34
So great, great response, the thought that comes to my mind, is this unnamed organization that you are a member of and drop the membership for a short time and then miss the connections that you had. Was it the connections with the leadership of that organization? Or was it the connections with the other individual members of the organization?
Velma Knowles 21:57
Very good question. And so let me let me do this. First and foremost, it is the members first, and for to me, they were members in that association or organization that I couldn’t wait to hug again, I couldn’t wait to see to talk of old stories and to make new memories. But did I have a connection within the leadership, I would say that it was selected. And, and it’s because you know, when you when you have, when you have a staff, and I’ve been in those shoes, you’re working in a small organization where you got a lot of members, but you’ve got a job to do. And so you’re very focused on trying to get the job to do and, and sometimes you can miss the person, when you’re focused on getting that project. And this is in any organization, you know, we tend to focus on project project project, but then we missed the person. And I think for me, it’s been where certain individuals in the leadership of the organization has seen me, and they hear me and they value me, and they’re like, oh, yeah, great, you know, and there’s that connection. But then unfortunately, that doesn’t trickle down to the entire team, even if their entire team is five people. And so that’s why I go back full circle, that, to create that culture of belonging has to begin on the inside, you know, if your employees feel like they’re seen, heard and valued, you’re going to foster that type of behavior, that’s going to then trickle outside. And then any member in your organization any prospective or like, I like to call them future member, any future member is going to be like, I gotta belong, they have random makes me feel like I missing out on something, I gotta, I just want to be there. Because I want to be among that, you know, people like Brandon. And I think that’s where the opportunity, that’s why I’m heavily passionate about, you know, your, your leadership has to in leadership across the organization, they have to buy into this culture of belonging, and then live that out every day for your members to be able to experience that and then want to stay.
Brandon Burton 24:10
I thought that’s where your response might go. So like,
Velma Knowles 24:18
oh, my gosh, I feel like Okay, pass the test.
Brandon Burton 24:24
So, I love the line that you had said about how all members are important, but they’re not equal.
Velma Knowles 24:31
Yeah, I
Brandon Burton 24:32
just need to let it sink in. Right. Yeah. Usually
Velma Knowles 24:35
when I say that, when I’m at board, you know, when I’m with my clients, and I do a board strategic planning session and, and, you know, we were talking about membership member engagement, member experience, and then they’ll, you know, they kind of throw some things at me and I’ll say, Well, you know, just let this sit for a minute. Okay, I’m gonna let this just let this plane land here. And and I tell them, you know, members are important. And everybody’s like nodding their head. Absolutely. You know, because they’re all members, everyone on the board is a member, right? Yeah, in different levels of capacity representing their companies. And I said, but all members are not equal. And then I’m like, will they ever bring me back to work for them again, right? So you know, and then it kind of sinks in, and then one or two people will say, Well, can you expand on that a little bit. And so I think that it’s, it’s not to take anything away from the the value of each individual in a member, you know, organization or customer if for that matter, because, you know, I wrote the book, the valuable leader, that’s my shameful plug in. And so I, I truly believe everyone brings value, but you’re running a business, the chamber is a business, it’s not for profit. It’s not nonprofit, right? It’s a it’s a business. And so you have to apply some strategic business processes. And that that’s one of them. Yeah,
Brandon Burton 26:03
and I think oftentimes, those members that are of higher value and value, there’s different ways to assess value with a member, right. But you talked about an 8020 rule. So you may look at that 20%, that are really bringing in 80% of those key metrics. And that may be a good pool to look at, as you’re looking for future ambassadors there, people get what your chamber does, or people who can get on board with your vision, and help make those connections with other businesses in the community. So I love that you point that out, you draw attention to the 8020 principle, and, and lean into that. So there’s a lot there. So I feel like I have to ask you, you have a term called Tiger Teams, can you tell us a little bit of Tiger team is and
Velma Knowles 27:00
yeah, tiger team. So when I was working inside the association world, one of the things that I got tasked by the CEO to do was to turn around a membership deficit. Now, you know, this is a big number. But if you put everything in perspective, wherever you are in the world, if you are losing members, it is a big number. Okay? Because it’s a problem that you have a big challenge you have to face. And so we had a, we had a huge member deficit that needed to turn around. And I was in the marketing department. And if you work in any support area of a company, you know that you’re there to serve the operations teams. And so to be called on to lead such an important task. First and foremost, I had the considered it a career opportunity for a promotion, or a career limiting move. And, and so thankfully, it turned out that I had the opportunity to literally turn this deficit around. But I didn’t do it by myself. And I always say that whenever I engage or work with, you know, coaching for for clients, or if I’m a part of the board planning, I always say that I don’t, I don’t have all the answers. But all the answers are in this room. And so I had this idea creatively, to tap into the various what I would call experts in each department. And so no matter how small your organization is, it’s got individuals that have a different discipline, a different set of lenses, if you will, that they look at the business every day. And so they see things and have a perspective, that’s very different than yours, right? And sometimes, I know we can, we can have such a deep focus on what we’re doing that we end up with blind spots, I like to call them blind spots where we just can’t see what’s what’s outside of our vision, and someone coming from a different lens can see what maybe you can’t and so, the idea was to bring together this group of people and the marketer in me said, nobody wants another job to do especially in a small organization. How do I how do I, how do I motivate? Or how do I inspire? How do I, you know, just bring this group where they want to belong to this to this challenge that we have this task force and it was called the task force, the membership retention Task Force, and I was like, Ah, I think you know, that just painful, right? And so I decided that I was gonna rebrand it, and I came up with teen Tiger. And so the tiger was a inside marketing strategy, if you will. that I created. And so I came up with a new name. And the team Tiger consisted of those that were going to be very passionate about running after, you know, running after the members that we were losing in the hopes of bringing them back and setting the stage to really give a roar, if you will, around how important it is to belong, the value proposition that you would get and really shoring up some of the things that that we felt we were missing. And so team Tiger became known throughout the organization, I just started talking it up. And it was interesting, because within eight months to a year, after testing a lot of ideas, I had people volunteering, can I be on Team Tiger? And so I was like, Well, you know, we’re really right now we’re just trying to kind of manage, because we didn’t want it to be too big either. Because then it becomes, you know, it becomes a place where it’s harder to have everyone be seen, heard and valued, right, becomes too big. So we did, we did rotate folks off because of other responsibilities and to bring in new perspectives. But it worked. So well. And you know, that it, we not only turned around the deficit, but we exceeded our goal within the time of budget. And so it’s safe to say I was able to keep my job. But then after, after that time, in the in that organization, I got tapped by another CEO, because sometimes people think, well, that’s a one and done. And, you know, it was a silver bullet. And you guys had some tricks of the trade. And for a while there, I thought that to Brendan, but then I got tapped by another CEO. And he said, I heard about what you did in this organization leading this team Tiger. And I was like, wow, you know, news travels. And he said, I would like to, I’d like to talk to you about doing some consulting workforce. And I was like, Well, I don’t really consult but I coach, there’s a big difference, you know, because I think you’ve got the power and you’ve got the talent, they just need a different lens, a different perspective, right, someone to come in and kind of cheer them on champion them and their cause and their tie in and reenergize them. And, and so I had the opportunity to engage with them, it was three weeks of doing some preliminary roll, you know, just kind of getting the lay of the land. And then I was asked to go to present to the board. So they flew me up for a 20 minute presentation. And I couldn’t even go to the board meeting, this was so funny, because they flew me to did to go to the board. But I can only come in the board room at the time of my presentation, which was only going to be for 20 minutes. And so I was like, okay, so I went in, I really didn’t have anything to report on. I mean, it’s three weeks, so you can’t really get a good feel for Okay, here’s, here’s the solutions you need right now. But I, I did present a business case. And, and not only a case, but a pathway forward, if you will, I call it the pathway principle. And it’s just really four things for them to have to look at, you know, know your numbers. And so really getting into your your data, your member data, know your numbers, know your resources, you got to know resources. And when I talk about resources, I talk about who you have in the organization, and who you have outside your organization, resources, like staff, or like members that are a part of your organization in your chamber. And they have expertise, but but also your partners, and your vendors, right, or industry vendor partners, because they’re due or different. Sponsors may be different as well. But those expertise, so know your resources, number three is you have to know your value. So is the value that you bring to your member base, relevant, as my good friend, Mary buyers would say, is the relevance there today as it was when you first started. And I think you know, for all of us, we have to take a look at what our value is, as we go forward. And then the fourth step on that pathway principle is really to know your plan. And that sounds very simple. But it’s not easy. Because everybody’s got a day to day job. And so I just presented that pathway principle and the thesis that I had so far, and at the end of 20 minutes, my my time was over. And we met when we met at around six 630 for cocktails, and it was then in there that the CEO said I’d like To bring you on board 100% full time, we want you to work with our organization to turn around our membership, retention deficit. And I thought, Okay, I got a year. And three years later with Team Tiger inside another organization, we won the Federation growth award for the highest net growth. Year over year, every year, we exceeded budget. So it’s not me, I really, really really don’t want to, to shortchange anyone here it is the collective connection. I’ll go back to that, again, of having the right people on Team tiger with with a focus of creating that culture where they want to belong, and where people want to belong as members to
Brandon Burton 35:51
very good. And your right, team Tiger sounds way more sexy than membership retention task force. So for anyone out there who’s on a membership retention Task Force, maybe, you know, think about rebranding it. Yeah,
Velma Knowles 36:03
I tell you, it goes. It’s just built curiosity. And you know, curiosity sparks interests, and interests, then return gives you a return on your investment.
Brandon Burton 36:15
Right? Well, Velma, as we start to wrap things up here, I want to ask you for any chamber champions that are out there listening who wants to take their organization up to the next level? What kind of tip or action item might you share with them that they can implement it their organization?
Velma Knowles 36:33
Right? Oh, yeah. When I thought about this question, because in full disclosure, you gave me all these questions. And, and I thought, well, what would what would I want someone to say to me, and I could rattle off several different tactics that you can test. But I think they’re shortchanged. And I don’t think you have to know more about that chamber in order to really give them good direction there. So for me, I would say, if there’s one thing I would, would challenge, or even encourage my chamber champions to do is to, first and foremost, look at, look at your, your organization, your communication to your members, and to your future members. And ask yourself, Am I focused on communicating how I solve the problems that I know they have? Or am I focused on communicating the services that I offer? I think there’s a big difference between, you know, when you say, I’m going to communicate the problem, the solutions to the problems I solve, versus the services that I offer. Services are, you know, things that you get from membership. But everyone has those services, right? I mean, just about even even for profit organizations now have member based organizations, Facebook, and Amazon, and they have magazines, and, you know, they may not have conferences, but they’ve got a lot of different other benefits that that that are traditional in our membership model. So I think when you focus on selling the problem that you solve, giving them the solutions to the things that you can provide, I think that that over the service, because it services services, that is what I expect, solutions is what I need. Right?
Brandon Burton 38:27
I had heard a quote, it’s been a few years back now, but it went to the the effect of if you can define the problem better than your future customer or client member, whoever it is, they assume that you have the answer. So if you can get good at defining their problem, they will assume that you have the answer. So to your point with communication that is key. So as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?
Velma Knowles 39:00
Oh, you are going to be so surprised by this one. But I think the future of my chamber champions out there, and I would, I would invite all businesses, so if they they listen in anyone outside of this listens in, I think that your greatest future opportunity is focused on connection. You know, the Surgeon General of the United States here has reported in this timeframe that we’re in that one of the greatest health crisis is not it’s not heart disease, it’s not, you know, smoking or cancer or any of those other really, you know, detrimental health issues that that we face. It’s it’s loneliness. And the solution to that is connection, and it brings us full circle because the primary reason of the existence for our chambers is to connect people So I really, really believe that I’ll use the quote that, you know, if you want to be stronger. You know, if you if you want, how does it go, if you want to go fast, go alone. But if you want to go further go together. And I think partnerships through collaboration is a way that you’re going to be able to provide solutions to problems that don’t even exist today for your future members and existing members. And it’s going to allow you to be viewed as innovative, creative, and a leader in really bringing organizations together. And I think that is going to elevate your board leadership. It’s going to elevate your member engagement, increase your employee retention, and it’s going to give you a sustainable organization for the future.
Brandon Burton 40:56
Very good. I love it. Getting back to the basics back to the roots of what chambers are all about. Well, Velma, I wanted to give you an opportunity to share any contact information or places you’d like to point people to follow you or connect with you and learn more about the services you offer. Anything you touched on today. Where would you point them to? To connect with you?
Velma Knowles 41:19
Yeah, sure. Thank you. Thank you, again, so much, Brandon, for the opportunity to be on the Chamber Chat Podcast I and to be such a an easygoing post. So I appreciate that. No real tough, tough questions here. But thank you so much for helping me be well prepared for our listeners. It’s really truly my honor to serve today. And I’m very easy to find. i My website is my name Velma Knowles and so it’s VelmaKnowles.com. And if you go there, I have some resources that are just free that you know, anyone can tap into some of them are on membership, and some are on leadership blindspots communication things that can help your team inside the organization level up, if you will, and then help your help your organization from a growth retention engagement standpoint. So I would just suggest go to VelmaKnowles.com, of course, I’m on LinkedIn, under the same name, and, and so and social media channels as well. I’m in on YouTube, I have a small podcast, a YouTube podcast called Your Leadership Chat.
Brandon Burton 42:32
Very good love podcast. So I know you check out Velma there. And we’ll we’ll get all of that in our show notes to make it easy for people to click and follow yes and learn more about what you have to offer. But I appreciate you spending time with us today. Here on chamber tap podcast, you provided a lot of value, a lot of perspectives. I took a lot of notes, and a lot of good. I don’t want to just say one liners because I think that shortchanges them but those lines that make you think you know and make you kind of look internally a little bit more and a little deeper on the the comments he made today. So thank you for for coming on and sharing that and I really do think you’ve provided a ton of value for us today.
Velma Knowles 43:14
Thank you, and thank you to the listeners and for supporting the Chamber Chat Podcast.
Brandon Burton 43:21
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