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Category: Mergers

Membership Value & ROI with Joe Venhuizen

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Brandon Burton (00:17)
Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your host, Brandon Burton, and it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community. Our guest for this episode is Joe Venhuizen. Joe is the Vice President of Membership and Resource Development for Envision Greater Fond du Lac. Envision is a combined chamber EDO.

Serving the greater Fond du Lac County in Wisconsin, Joe has spent nine years in the industry working in membership sales, program coordination, government affairs, and executive leadership. Joe earned his IOM certificate to the U.S. Chamber in 2025. He is a husband and a father to three boys and an active member of his local church.

Joe, I’m excited to have you with us today here on Chamber Chat podcast. I’d love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the Chamber Champions who are out there listening and to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better.

Joe Venhuizen (01:18)
Sure. Well,

it is a pleasure to be here. So thank you for having me on and look forward to a good discussion. I never shy away from the chance to discuss the industry. It’s one of my favorite things to do and especially with people who actually understand it. You know, I imagine you can be a bit of a bore at Thanksgiving. That’s what I come off. know, people just kind of go, well, you work for the government, don’t you? Or you know, there’s not an understanding of where we are and what we

we do. And so to talk to people who live this, it really energizes me. So yes, my name is Joe. been, I’ve lived in this area of East Central Wisconsin. That’s where I grew up. Aside from education and a couple things that brought me out of the area, I have always been here. So I grew up on a, tell me if you heard this before, I’m a dairy farm kid from Wisconsin. So family farm,

Brandon Burton (02:09)
Are

there many of those? No. Just kidding.

Joe Venhuizen (02:10)
Yeah, it’s fitting the mold here. I’m a Packer fan. I’m wearing the gear here. I’m excited for Sunday to take on the Lions. But

I do bleed green and gold in Wisconsin. I love where I’m from. But I’ve been in this industry nine years. And I have no plans of going anywhere. I see nothing but exciting challenges in my future doing what we do.

You wanted something interesting. something interesting. I’ll tell you this year, earlier this year, I became an official small business owner myself. And that sounds pretty cool. The reality is it’s not that cool. But I did get an LLC. And I formalized under an LLC some things that I’ve been doing for years, which is improv comedy.

Brandon Burton (02:44)
Okay.

Joe Venhuizen (02:59)
So I now have an official business for my improv troupe and we do short form sketch comedy for corporate parties and gatherings and fundraisers and things. So something that I’ve enjoyed doing for many years.

Brandon Burton (03:13)
That’s very cool. So I I love asking that question. I never would have known that about you if I didn’t ask for the interesting fact about yourself. So that’s cool. You’ll have to put up your tour schedule here at the end. yeah. Yeah. That’s right. That’s fantastic.

Joe Venhuizen (03:22)
Here you go.

Yeah, Private bookings only, you know, pay for travel costs. I’m happy to, you know, advertise it on your podcast here.

Brandon Burton (03:37)
I know what you mean about Thanksgiving dinner being the board. When people find out I have a podcast, they’re like, ⁓ that’s so cool. What’s it about? it’s chambers of commerce. Like, what? Yeah, so yeah. Well, tell us a little bit about your chamber. Just give us an idea what Envision Greater Fond du Lac has to offer, size, staff, scope of work, budget, just to set the stage for our discussion today.

Joe Venhuizen (03:44)
Yeah.

Yeah,

we’re all in about a $2 million organization. We are a combined Chamber of Commerce and Economic Development organization. That combination happened in 2017. So I joined the industry and the organization before the merger. So I was hired as a Chamber membership and program person. Within my first year, we had the merger that brought together the Chamber and the Economic Development.

We serve a county that’s roughly a hundred thousand population. We are in the county seat and ⁓ most of our membership base is in the county seat, which is the city of Fond du Lac. But Fond du Lac County has three cities and various villages and townships. It’s pretty rural. Our big industries here are agriculture and manufacturing. The congressional district in which we sit, the Wisconsin sixth

congressional district is the leading manufacturing district in the country. So we have, we are home to the world headquarters of Mercury Marine, which is the leading producer of marine outboard motors. And there’s a ⁓ hefty supply chain with that and neighboring in the region, we have quite a few manufacturing titans in that industry. So that’s a lot of who we service. And then of course, agriculture and

and your standard ground of the mill, all the different industries that Chambers serve. So we have experienced the pains and the joys of merging those two organizations and what it takes to create a new brand and to really have the inner working between servicing existing business needs through Chamber of Commerce services and advocacy and also still working.

under the same strategic plan intent on economic development and business attraction retention and entrepreneurship and workforce development. So it’s been, it’s been very, very good. I always advocate that more organizations look at these opportunities seriously and check egos and really consider what’s best for the business community that you serve. Because a lot of times there is duplicity and there’s

know, competition for resources that it took quite a while for our organizations at that time to make this leap of faith to do this together. But now standing and looking back eight years later, it’s definitely been a success.

Brandon Burton (06:21)
Yeah, that’s great. So how many staff do you guys have between the combined organization? Okay.

Joe Venhuizen (06:26)
We’re at about 14 total. And my role oversees our chamber

operations, and that’s ⁓ a team of about four of us. And then there’s operations. We have one CEO, obviously, my boss. And then our economic development and workforce development team forms the other pillar.

Brandon Burton (06:45)
Very good. Yeah, that’s super helpful for us to just understand where you’re coming from as we enter into our discussion today. So we’ll focus the majority of our conversation on the topic of membership value and ROI, which I know it can be a hot topic for pretty much any chamber out there. So I’m excited to dive into that topic and to get your feedback and your experience on this as soon as we get back from this quick break.

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All right Joe we’re back so as I mentioned before the break today we’re talking about membership value and ROI How do we express that to members potential members? I’ve shared before on the podcast my background is in chamber publishing so Oftentimes I’m interacting with chamber members as a third party and They feel like they can open up to me in that in those scenarios

and they’ll be honest, you know, I don’t feel like I get anything out of my chamber. don’t see, you know, I paid membership dues and I never heard from the chamber again, you those sort of things. So how do you approach expressing membership value and ROI as you interact with your members and potential members?

Joe Venhuizen (09:53)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, if any of your listeners have the right answer on this, you know, in 10 seconds, please chime in. But this is going to constantly be the measure that we use for ourselves is how well are we delivering value or communicating value. One of the things that’s been helpful for me in years of doing this, in annual renewal cycles and understanding the types of members who come and go and then those who stay and why they stay.

is really the way, the type of mindset that a member brings to the organization. The reason for joining is as important to understand at the time that you are interacting with a new member as the way you communicate ongoing. Because if you understand the type of member and the type of value they’re looking for, you can understand

whether they’re going to be long-term or whether this is going to be a, I’m in it for now for me. And then when the me part isn’t working, I’m out. We have done a decent amount of effort recently at Envision in changing some of our language and our materials to reflect more of a fundraising or investor mindset than a member mindset.

And where we are focusing a lot of effort is this getting into a mindset of a long-term relationship, not that there’s a sort of knee-jerk reaction that’s asked for on an annual basis. Did I feel like this year I did enough to get value that I can write one more check, but to really start the relationship off from the bat of this is a movement?

that you’re joining for the long term. And there will be peaks and valleys. There will be times when you need more attention from the business community and the services we offer. And there will be times when you’re off and running the business. But that doesn’t mean that we’re going to be stopping and starting and breaking off relationship. This is both of us working towards success in this region together for the long term.

Brandon Burton (12:11)
Yeah, so years ago I had a friend of mine, he’s a realtor, he reached out to me, he had moved to a new community.

He’s like, Brandon, should I join my local chamber? He’s like, I know you do this podcast about chambers. Should I join my local chamber? And of course, my, my, you know, knee jerk reactions, of course, you know, but I was a little more measured. My, depends, you know, what are you trying to do? What, like, what’s the mission of the chamber there in your community? What kind of committees do they have? How can you get involved? Like, what do you want this to do for your business? It’s not just that.

that magic bullet where you pay an annual membership due and all of a sudden your business is thriving, right? Right. So very much, going back to your, you know, your thought about figuring out the why, why are they joining and what are they trying to get out of it. That’ll help guide those conversations. My thought is going towards how about those members that need to justify their membership to somebody higher.

Joe Venhuizen (12:53)
Yeah, all your problems are solved.

Brandon Burton (13:15)
you know, a regional manager or somebody at corporate or, know, something like that. How do you have those kinds of conversations and help them to, to recognize what the chamber does for them so they can continue that conversation with those that they answer to? Right.

Joe Venhuizen (13:17)
Yeah.

Yeah, that’s a tough one because my answer is almost always, well, who do I need to be in the room with? Because

let’s get to the naysayer, the person who is sort of just evaluating this on paper and not really in the context of a conversation or a true understanding. So those can be really difficult, getting through those local

folks on the ground who say, I got to run it up the chain of command and go, well, let me help you. Let me be part of that conversation. It’s often a good thing. But I think that there’s always mindset shift. And in those critical kind of crucial conversations of, are we valuable enough to use

expense on, right, to invest in. I think that that’s the opportunity to communicate differently. It’s not the time to rattle off the benefits menu, you know, that, well, we do this, we do this, we have all this. It’s really, when you’re in those conversations, it’s really opportunity to pause and to say, what are your goals? You know, what is it that you want to accomplish? And

really get the playbook because people will teach you how to sell them. And when you’re able to get them to communicate, well, here’s what I’m looking for. So your realtor friend, you know, looking for connections in a new area, I just want to meet new people, right? Well, that’s easy. You know, here’s the things, you know, but what your realtor friend may not care about is

all of the work we do with the local school districts in bridging the gap between local industry and future workforce. And, you know, that might be a huge part of what we do. It doesn’t matter to me. Right. So don’t spend any time talking about that because I’m lost. I don’t care. You can fundraise that from other sources. Here’s my problem that I’m looking to solve through your organization. So you need to get the keys to how to sell and you get that from the member who’s considering that value.

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Brandon Burton (15:16)
Right.

Yeah, I guess I’m thinking of those members that they’ve they’ve joined maybe they’ve been a member for a year or two.

Joe Venhuizen (15:38)
.

Brandon Burton (15:41)
And because so many businesses now are operating off of data, which we preach to chambers too, Collect data, make data-informed decisions. they collect the data. They’re looking at their books. And they’re like, OK, justify this to me. How does this make sense? And like you said, who do I need to talk to to help relay the value? I think that’s key. ⁓

Joe Venhuizen (15:54)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

We’ve got to tell stories

really too, Brandon. We have to be able to communicate our wins and then how they apply. you know, I think we get very head down in the chamber industry on, you know, we have this annual schedule of events and monthly schedule of events and, you know, this long list of to-dos and there’s a lot of whirlwind there. But when we get significant wins for the community,

those you just can’t move on from those to the next event. You have to be constantly reminding, sometimes ad nauseam, like, here’s what we accomplished. And I’ve talked, you know, it’s eight years post-merger for our organization, but I don’t want anybody in our community to forget how significant that was. And for people who are maybe newer in the business community here, they might not know any better or any different.

But I like to remind them of what life was like before the merger and how significant just being here and being an efficient organization is. And that goes down to resources. Your resources invested in this organization are maximized much more than what they were previously because of this big win. You could have been getting much less value because you’d been writing two checks to two organizations that were both trying to do the same thing. Now we’re doing it all here.

So it’s one example, but eight years later, I can still communicate that to certain businesses who are legacy businesses who’ve been here a while that, know, yeah, you’re right, you’re right. This could be a lot. You the other thing is any time you have advocacy wins, any time that you’ve helped with a business expansion, relocation, an entrepreneur startup, any time the Chamber’s been involved, even, you know, advocating for an infrastructure change that’s small.

I it was Pat McGoy, who’s a long time, know, titan in the chamber industry, tells kind of an anecdote about if the chamber advocates for a stop sign, use that one project, right? Just one stop sign and then try to put numbers to it. So for the business that’s right there, what does this mean for you? So if that one, you know, stop sign,

leads to, and I can’t remember how in this example, but if it leads to more impressions or more traffic that is stopped at your business with visibility, by the numbers, is that 1 % more? that 10 % more? And then what does that mean for your bottom line? So for your million dollar industry, what’s 1 % of that? And then how do you quantify the results of advocacy wins?

I haven’t done a lot of that, but that was something that made me think a lot. Anytime that you have a, you know, a business park expansion or a win on your main street. For example, we advocated for highway expansion that tied our community to the county to the east. And by expanding that road from two lanes to four lanes, naturally it’s much safer. It’s much more efficient for.

Um, you know, for daily drivers, also for the, you know, businesses and freight over the road. Um, there’s a way that you can communicate that to businesses of, different industries that this is valuable and it wouldn’t have happened without our advocacy. So, you know, trying to get them out of this mindset of like, okay, the only thing that matters is customers that walk through my door and go, no, no, no,

It’s not the only thing that matters because that’s influenced by a lot of different factors. And here’s the way that we’re pulling levers on those factors.

Brandon Burton (19:32)
Yeah, I love that. And just the whole idea of the value of being able to tell the story, whether it’s talking about the merger or the recent advocacy wins.

Joe Venhuizen (19:35)
Thank

Brandon Burton (19:42)
I mean, I think every chamber out there is going to have at least a healthy handful of examples of just individual members who have been members, you know, the whole time that their business has been around and, you know, why they stick with it, why they, you know, wins that they’ve seen as the chambers been able to be influential in their business to, again, help increase that bottom line. So being able to kind of create a storybook of sorts that you can go back to and pull from and

Joe Venhuizen (19:57)
Mm-hmm.

Brandon Burton (20:11)
Depending on what the scenario is who the person is you’re talking to to pull from these stories these experiences and say well this is how it worked for ABC business and You know, it’s similar to yours So I actually I had an experience just yesterday with a business owner who was new to this community and She had been a business owner in a previous community for a long time

like 30 years, she had a retail shop and she just moved to this new community, opened a new business. And she said, you know, in my last community, I was a chamber member. And after so many years, I stopped because, know, whatever the reason is, as you come across somebody like that, obviously they had an experience, they gave it a try. It was a different chamber, different community, different state even.

How can you help build the trust for them to give your chamber a chance to be able to help their business? Is there a way of trying to save that or to help them recognize the value? I’m sure the storytelling comes back into that, but how would you approach a situation like that?

Joe Venhuizen (21:05)
Thank you.

Well,

you have to remind people that every chamber is a unique and different organization. And when you have folks that bring past experiences.

It’s just hard to compare apples and oranges sometimes. But what I try to ⁓ remember is, and there are examples of this in my years in the industry, that a really good practice to get into is to invite your critics. Invite your critics to dinner. Some of the best volunteers or board members

that we’ve recruited have been those who have been trying to drop, right? They’re trying to leave. saying, you’re not valuable. I don’t get anything out of this relationship. And instead of writing them off and saying, you just don’t get it. You’re not worth it. You weren’t investing that much anyway. If you really take the time to swallow the pride, the ego, you go, know what? You’re probably right. Let’s talk about that. Why don’t you come in?

I had a volunteer, right, sorry, I had a ⁓ member of our young professionals organization who after one year hadn’t gotten outreach. We really did fail her. She hadn’t gotten outreach or hadn’t attended an event, didn’t feel like, you know, she belonged. At the time of renewal, she could have just not said anything, but she took the time to write me an email, a scathing email, right, a scathing critique on her way out the door.

Brandon Burton (22:40)
That says something. Yeah.

Joe Venhuizen (22:43)
You guys failed. This was horrible. And again, I could have pitched it in the trash and said, okay, or I could have done the halfway, which is, yeah, I guess we really did kind of screw up. Shoot, that’s too bad. But I went one step further and said, sounds like you’d be a great member of our membership outreach committee. You’ve identified a real need in this organization and we need leaders and it sounds like you could do it. And today,

Brandon Burton (23:04)
I love it.

Joe Venhuizen (23:10)
She’s the chairperson of the whole organization for the young professionals. And she’ll tell that story. It was on her way out the door, but somebody actually confronted her and said, yeah, you’re right. And we could use you to get better.

Brandon Burton (23:25)
I love that.

Great example. And tie in in that storytelling right there. That’s perfect. I encountered a similar situation with a guy that owns a bar and like a brewery. And he was very much against.

the chamber and you know the chamber tried for years trying to get this guy to join. He came from corporate world and he’s like don’t see where we need this and through the persistence they got him to you know come to I think it was a mixer or something to begin with just as a non-member just come you know try it out and now he’s the board chair at this chamber. He’s all in and so it’s I love hearing stories like that love it.

Joe Venhuizen (23:40)
Mm-hmm.

Brandon Burton (24:09)
Anything else come to mind as far as expressing the value and really that ROI to businesses as they either go through their experience with the chamber or contemplate joining or renewing membership with the chamber?

Joe Venhuizen (24:25)
Yeah, I think

it’s more philosophical for me. It’s real big picture stuff of you get yourself in no win scenarios when you really try to justify it on the terms that they present. Because a renewing member may, like we said earlier, may justify value only as, I’ll give you one example. We had a Main Street business who said, I’m dropping my membership because

I didn’t see enough chamber gift certificates that came in the door spending money at my bakery. Exactly. And it was, I would need to see at least, you know, a thousand dollars in chamber gift certificates for this to be worth it. Now, those are the terms that he’s defined for this discussion. That’s the value that he’s defined. You have to get out of that language, those terms and present it on a different battlefield.

Brandon Burton (24:58)
That one metric. Yeah.

Joe Venhuizen (25:17)
which isn’t always easy, but that’s really how you have to get the mindset shift to go, well, that’s one metric. You know what? We maybe weren’t honest with you, sir. We probably should have told you that you’re organization is going to help you. But here’s what we are doing. Are you aware of this? Did you know how, you know, did you know how this this proposal at City Council that almost passed would have impacted your your tax bill or your assessment? And the chamber fought that you probably didn’t even know. Good thing is you didn’t have to know because we’re on your side. We’re advocating on your behalf for things that you’re not even paying attention to. Right. So getting them out of this this way of evaluating value and then getting over here. And a lot of it is, yeah, it’s those advocacy wins. It’s the big initiatives that we’re doing and then not being ashamed to continue storytelling on those wins. And, you know, I said I’m a dairy farm kid. You got to milk them. You got to milk it for everything it’s got, right? Once you get an accomplishment, don’t let it sit on the shelf. Keep bringing it back and leverage it for ⁓ membership renewals as often as you can.

Brandon Burton (26:29)
I love that. Great analogy. Malcolm. Well, for the chambers that are listening,

Joe Venhuizen (26:30)
Yeah.

Brandon Burton (26:34)
Most of them are going to be interested in taking their chamber the next level, growing, expanding. What kind of tip or action item might you share with that chamber who’s trying to take it to the next level to try to accomplish that goal?

Joe Venhuizen (26:48)
It’s a good question. I think that if you’re listening and your chamber is not involved in advocacy and government affairs, you need to figure out how you can carve out a slice of that game because you owe it to your business community. Our organization pre-merger between chamber and economic development, our chamber was very active in

Brandon Burton (26:58)
you

Joe Venhuizen (27:12)
in advocacy and government affairs. During the merger, there was a fear that because our economic development organization had some public investments coupled with private, that we would be in a bad situation if we were trying to do local advocacy while also relying on public funds. And I won’t say that that isn’t a real factor.

But the result was we shelved advocacy. We got out of the game completely. And it only took a couple of years before we lost influence and we had a big missed opportunity for local development because we didn’t have an established enough advocacy voice to be able to influence this issue. And so it woke us up and it got us back to the table.

We reestablished a legislative agenda, reformed an advocacy committee, and have thrown a bunch of time and energy into it. And we’re yielding the results. Because again, we’ve said it, when it comes to ROI, that’s the trump card. For a business that can never show up to an event, can never be bothered to read an email, there is always, when you have a good, strong advocacy arm, there is always the argument that we did this, you benefited.

You didn’t have to show up just by existing in this community. You’re a beneficiary of this advocacy work that we did. And we think it’s worth at least a small amount of your annual continued investment. So I think that, you know, for chambers that are scared of it, there’s a way to do this in a very easy, non-controversial way, just to become the location where conversations happen.

You can do legislative forums where you’re just inviting in officials with the business community. You’re not taking stances. You’re not advocating positions. It’s an easy way to just get started. But I think that if you’re not doing anything in this advocacy sphere, you’ve got to get at the table.

Brandon Burton (29:04)
Yeah, I love that tip and it plays in very well to our discussion today too.

I talk about it being that Trump card that you can always go back to and you know, if you can get into the micro things for each individual business, but when you’re missing on those accord or you’re not, you know, really hitting it home for that business, you always can lean back on that advocacy card. I love that. I like asking everyone to have on the show as we look to the future of chambers of commerce. How do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Joe Venhuizen (29:27)
I feel like.

That’s another good question.

I think that Chambers of Commerce will continue to remember who they are and

The core of why chambers were started was to be a functional tool on behalf of a business community to accomplish more together than what businesses can on their own. I think as, you know, time goes on and chambers take different avenues and some function more in a tourist or some are in, you know, other areas, it sometimes becomes a

Well, let’s think about this organization like a business and how do we maximize our profits and keep our, people. I think that sometimes gets into a myopia and you’re really just looking down and you’re not thinking and remembering, okay, wait a minute, wait a minute. We’re a tool for the success of all of our businesses. The fear I have is the same thing that the internet did to Chambers when it became prevalent, which was now you have a platform outside of your local chamber where you can do a lot of the connections and the exposure and you don’t need to stop into the chamber office for a map anymore, right? These sorts of things that made chambers valuable. I fear that AI will do the same thing to a lot of the services or benefits that we now provide. And that can crush a chamber that’s not forward thinking or it can just challenge all of us. And so what I mean by waking up and remembering what we’re here for is the value that we provide in an increasingly automated AI culture is, and also in this fragmented political culture is we’re the sane people at the center of issues. And we are the people that know how to have conversations and to bring variety of opinions to the table and come out with results. We’re positioned for that. We’re here to represent businesses, but we’re also in touch with the public sector, nonprofit education, all different industries. We know how to get people to a table in the middle. And that’s something that you can’t automate. So remember how we’re uniquely positioned. And I think that that’s going to be the future of Chambers. just going to be continuing to be the trusted resource in the middle when you’ve got a lot of artificial things that can’t be trusted along the fringes.

Brandon Burton (32:04)
Yeah, totally agree and to be able to understand that core because technology is going to change everything around us. But if we’ve got that core and why we exist and then employ different tools around that core.

Joe Venhuizen (32:14)
Mm-hmm.

Brandon Burton (32:19)
I think that’ll keep chambers relevant in the center of trying to bring some sanity to both sides in long time in the future. Well, Joe, before we let you go, I wanted to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for listeners who may want to reach out and connect with you and learn more how you guys are doing things there at Envision. ⁓ Where would you point them? What would be the best way to connect?

Joe Venhuizen (32:26)
Definitely.

Yeah.

Yeah, we have an easy name, Envision with an E, Envision Greater Fond du Lac. So you’ll find us, if you Google us, we’re online, EnvisionGreaterFDL.com. I’m a phone call guy. So if you want to get a hold of me, just ring me up. My phone number is listed on the website, but it’s 920-921-9500. I’m the only Joe in the building, so you’ll get to me quick. But I would love the chance to talk with you on the phone. I welcome anybody to call me and discuss ideas or book your next improv comedy show.

Brandon Burton (33:11)
That’s right, get that plug in there.

Joe Venhuizen (33:13)
Thanks.

Brandon Burton (33:16)
We’ll get that in our show notes to make it nice and easy for people to find you. But Joe, I appreciate you spending time with us today here on Chamber Chat podcast and sharing your perspective, your experiences when it comes to membership and expressing that value. I know it’s something that we constantly need to be thinking of and building that story bank that we can go back to whenever we need to to be relatable to those businesses that we interact with. So thank you for sharing your insights with us today.

Joe Venhuizen (33:18)
Thank you.

You bet. Thank you for the work you do. This is so important to people challenged in the industry and thinking ahead and thinking futuristically and also just for giving us some of the ideas for how to storytell. What you do is the same thing that we should be doing on the topic what we’ve been discussing. We’ve got to get better at getting the word out and not just in an annual renewal letter.

Brandon Burton (34:08)
Yeah, big fan of Chambers podcasting. I’ll just put that out there. So, all right. That’s right. Thank you, Joe. I appreciate it.

Joe Venhuizen (34:13)
We’ve got a whole lot of time. Thank you.

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Chamber Turnaround with Warren Call

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your hosts Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

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Our guest for this episode is Warren. Call Warren is the President and CEO of Traverse Connect, the economic development organization focused on advancing the economic vitality of the Grand Traverse region in Michigan. Traverse connect hosts the northern Michigan chamber Alliance, a coalition of 18 chambers of commerce and economic development organizations representing over 7500 businesses across northern Michigan that advocates for economic competitiveness and pro growth rural business policies. Warren’s role is to lead strategy for the organization, advocate for area businesses, represent the region globally and collaborate with local, state and national organizations on critical issues related to economic development and regional competitiveness. He holds leadership roles in several public policy initiatives dedicated to economic expansion, and was appointed by Governor Gretchen Whitmer to the Board of Directors for the Michigan State Housing Development Authority. Prior to joining traverse connect, Warren served as vice president and regional manager for Huntington National Bank with oversight board investments in private banking across northern Michigan. He holds an MBA in international finance from St John’s University, and a BA in history from Michigan State University, where he was the captain of the Michigan State University Alpine Ski Team. Warren, I’m excited to have you with us today here on Chamber Chat Podcast. I’d love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the Chamber Champions who are out there listening and to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better. Yeah.

Warren Call 2:45
Hello, Brandon, thanks for the opportunity, and welcome all the chamber champions that are out there listening. It’s, it’s a pleasure to be with you. Yeah, Warren, call from, from Traverse, connect in Traverse City, Michigan, kind of maybe a little bit of background for me. The as you mentioned there in the in the bio ski racer, skiing is kind of my thing. I grew up in in a ski family. My parents both worked in the resort business, so we, we kind of lived there. And so I grew up skiing all the time. I was a high school and college racer. Worked in the ski business for a while in Utah, as well as in in Michigan. My brother was it was also chief of course for World Cup races in Colorado. And so we do a lot of traveling for skiing. We ski a lot here, and then been in a number of avalanches due to, due to my skiing experiences. Wow,

Brandon Burton 3:49
see, I’ve never been much of a skier. I’ve been snowboarding a couple times, but nothing. I can’t do it. It’s just not me. And I see videos of these people to get caught up in avalanches and like, that’s why I don’t do so that is interesting, though, and definitely an address adrenaline rush, I’m sure, absolutely. Well, tell us a little bit more about traverse, connect, give us an idea of size, scope of work, staff, budget, that sort of thing to kind of set the stage for our conversation today.

Warren Call 4:22
Yeah. So for anyone that’s not familiar with with Traverse City, traverse City’s Northern Michigan, the northern lower Michigan. So there’s the university the Upper Peninsula, the up, as we call it. We’re in the northern part of the Lower Peninsula of Michigan. The pinky of the mitt is, is basically where we are from a map standpoint, right on Lake Michigan. We’re about four hours north of Detroit, six hours north of Chicago, one of our claims to fame, Good Morning America, named us the most beautiful place in America due to Lake Michigan and the dunes and all that kind of stuff. Um. We’re Travers Connect is a hybrid entity. We’re both a Regional Chamber of Commerce and a regional economic development organization covering the five counties around Traverse City are, we’re we’re a small town, we’re a small region. We’re a Micropolitan Statistical Area. So think about 150,000 people in kind of the the micropolitan area our our chamber organization has 1000 member companies here in our in our five county footprint, we have about a $3 million budget and a staff of 11 here in Traverse City, we have a brand portfolio, as we call it, because again, we’re, we’ve, we’ve expanded beyond being just a traditional chamber. So we have under the traverse connect brand. We’re, we both have the five County Chamber of Commerce services as well as direct economic development for for this region. So business attraction, business retention strategies, you know, incentives for for business relocation, things like that. We also have what’s called the northern Michigan chamber Alliance, as you mentioned, and proud to report that it’s now 19 chambers of commerce and economic development organizations across the footprint. So that footprint is basically the northern half of the mid northern Lower Peninsula, and then all of the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. So the reason for that is from an advocacy and public policy standpoint. When our team is in Lansing, the capital of Michigan, or in Washington, DC, we’re not speaking on behalf of just Traverse City or just our micropolitan region. We’re speaking on behalf of all of Northern Michigan with a unified voice. We also kind of going through that band, brand portfolio further we’ve got, we house the Traverse City young professionals organization. We also have the Grand Traverse area manufacturing council. So that’s a subset entity that’s obviously focused on manufacturing. And then we run what’s called Michigan’s creative coast. That’s a talent attraction program for our region that is nationally, trying to attract talent to to Northern Michigan, so that that’s, that’s kind of us in a in a very brief nutshell.

Brandon Burton 7:36
And we could do, we could do about eight or nine podcast episodes and all these different branches that you guys are involved with within your your brand portfolio. It’s fascinating. I imagine, with the the 18th chamber now in the northern Michigan Alliance, that you’re probably close to 8000 businesses or so that are being represented on that, that advocacy front.

Warren Call 7:58
Yeah, our, our Director of Government Relations was actually just looking at that yesterday. She’s She’s put out a updated survey to all those those organizations, because we do want to make sure that I think we’re probably close to, or maybe over 8000 at this at this point. So you know, that’s, that’s a lot of businesses and a lot of organizations that we represent. And again, from an from an from an advocacy and public policy standpoint, you know, Northern Michigan, as with many rural areas and rural communities, you know, you can sometimes get lost in the mix. From a standpoint of, you know, in Michigan, Detroit speaks pretty loudly. Grand Rapids speaks pretty loudly. We want to make sure that policy makers know that the rural areas of northern Michigan are important too, and so we have that unified voice to speak on behalf of the rural areas.

Brandon Burton 8:50
I love it. It’s a great idea and a great strategy. So our focus for our conversation today is we’ve titled The episode is chamber turnaround. So we’re going to dive in deep onto to how traverse, connect became what it is today, and kind of the background story to that and and I’m sure a lot of the story can resonate with other chamber leaders across the country as they hear it, but we’ll dive in deep into that story and experience as soon as they get back from this quick break.

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All right, Warren, we’re back. So tell us, what is the background? What’s the story on on traverse connect, how did it come to be and and this whole idea of chamber turnaround, I think it’s safe to assume that things maybe weren’t as ideal, and then things had to happen to to get it on track to where it is today.

Warren Call 12:56
Yeah, it’s, it’s interesting Brandon, because what what we face here in the Grand Traverse region, the Traverse City area is unlike a lot of Michigan, or actually a lot of the kind of the industrial upper midwest Great Lakes region, we’re actually growing. We have really been on a pretty good trajectory from a growth standpoint, for a while, and what we needed was we had a lot of great institutions and a lot of great initiatives that were they were they were they were well intentioned, and they were well meaning, and what they weren’t is they weren’t modernized for our environment. So what we really needed to do is we needed to take kind of that big picture of Chamber of Commerce, services, economic development, and we needed to modernize our approach, or for the region. And what that really related to was we had a lot of organizations that were doing good things, but a lot of it was siloed. So there wasn’t a lot of coordination across some initiatives there wasn’t full coordination across the region. And so what we looked at was an opportunity to reimagine what business support services, in kind of its most general sense, looked like in our region. And it became, frankly, a wholesale reconstruction of of our organization and of of the approach to economic development and and Chamber of Commerce services for the entire region. So, from a from a background standpoint, it really, it really started back in in probably 2016 2017 there was, there was a number of initiatives that had kind of gone by the wayside. So a kind of an older, traditional public sector, county led Economic Development Corporation had gone dormant and didn’t have a lot of operations in it at the same time. Um, 100 plus year old Regional Chamber of Commerce, I wouldn’t say had, had certainly was still functioning and well functioning, but it was pretty traditional, and it was perhaps even a little bit stale in its approach.

Brandon Burton 15:15
I’ve heard that before from chambers have been around a long time. Yeah, right. And fantastic

Warren Call 15:21
legacy, very successful legacy, but needed, needed a refresh, basically, yeah, and then we had a number of initiatives that had newer initiatives that were important, so, especially in innovation and technology. So a new tech incubator had been stood up. A couple other good initiatives, but they were, they were in their own silos and not plugged into some of the other things that were going on. So a number of us, and I should, I should probably point out that I have no background in economic development or Chamber of Commerce services. So back at this point, I was actually working in the in the finance industry for a national bank with I was overseeing their northern Michigan operations. So I was involved in these things, but as a as a volunteer board member, yeah, so I was a volunteer board member on the Economic Development Corporation and on the technology incubator, and I was involved in one of the committees through the chamber, and there was things like that. But so we work, we were working as a community to re envision what economic development and Chamber of Commerce services should look like. And it there was a couple of retirements at some of these different organizations, and so we looked at that as an opportunity to kind of rethink what it what everything should look like. And at that point, I got asked by some of the people that you know, they said, well, great, but if we’re going to reconstitute everything, we want you to move from being a board member to being the guy in the chair. So I didn’t expect to be in that role. But that’s, that’s how it happened.

Brandon Burton 17:02
It sounds like maybe you spoke too much in these board meetings. I think so. I think, I

Warren Call 17:07
think I shared my opinion a few too many times, right? So what we ended up doing is the county’s Economic Development Corporation was reformatted with with new board members. I was, I was, again at that point, the volunteer chair of that organization, when we reconstituted it. And what we did is we, we built a strategic plan for rebuilding everything. And so that that process happened through 2017 2018 and then in 2019 I stepped into this role at traverse Connect, which at that point was a kind of a community development organization that hadn’t really found its footing. And so we, we, then my job was to work with a consultant that we had hired and build a strategic plan, not just for my organization, but for the entire region. So this really was a soup to nuts kind of approach. We had community wide forums, we had a listening tour. We had a steering committee made up of key leaders from business industry nonprofits from across the region, kind of, as I call it. That was our big shots group, right? We had prominent CEOs and other leaders who, you know, have influence. And what we ended up doing is through, through those public listening tours, those, those, those the kind of the road show as it was, the industry forums that we, you know, we brought together the manufacturers, and we brought together the healthcare providers, and we, you know, all these things. We ended up basically opening the hood, ripping everything out, and putting it all back together again in a new in a new structure. So we merged Travers connect and the Traverse City Area Chamber of Commerce together into one entity that’s now called Travers Connect. We spun off a couple of of subsidiaries that were no longer, you know, relevant, and we we then merged in over time, we merged in some of these other things. We expanded that chamber Alliance. It had gone when we went from 12, now up to 19 members. We also brought in and merged the Grand Traverse area manufacturing council as a now a subsidiary of our organization. And really what it was was we took all these outdated structures and we were trying to address the fact that we had growth in the region, which was positive, but we also had a lot of growth challenges. So we’re a very popular. Destination for tourism. We’re a popular destination for second homes, and those are very valuable aspects of our economy, but they’re not our only aspects of our economy. We have actually a lot of technology. We have a lot of advanced manufacturing. We actually have more employment in manufacturing than Michigan’s average. And for anyone that knows Michigan, there’s a lot that says a lot, right? So people think of us as a great place for vacations and beaches and cherry pie, but what they don’t realize that there’s also a lot of other things going on in manufacturing, in technology, in agriculture, so advanced value added agriculture, right? We, you know, if, if your kids ever eat, go, go squeeze, you know, applesauce in the packet that’s made right here in a very massive facility here, matern, the French company that has their their location here, we make a lot of wine that gets shipped all over the world, etc. So we’ve got a lot of things beyond tourism and and second home ownership, which are important to us. But one of the challenges there is we have a high cost of living because so many people want to either be here part of the time or be here, you know, for vacation, etc. So we have workforce challenges. So while we’re population was growing, our working age population was declining. Yeah, so 35 to 49 year olds, that core working age population, the people that run businesses, that you know, teach school, that have kids in the school system, that you know sit on nonprofit boards that kind of your core working age population that had declined by 7% between 2010 and 2019 Wow. So you can’t have a vibrant year round economy and community if you don’t have the people that are here year round working and, you know, getting their kids into snow pants and out to school the next day, right? It’s, you’ve got to, you’ve got to have that, that that year round population. So that was a wake up call to our region that we needed to do something. And so that was kind of all of the the work we did to institute a new structure and develop a new a new strategic plan was focused on the fact that we need to be a year round economy so and I can go into more more detail about, kind of, some of the key highlights of that, but I wanted to pause and see if,

Brandon Burton 22:33
yeah, I think that’s important to dive into some of those key highlights. I’m always curious as well, when there’s restructuring like this that goes on as to it. And you gave a great background about you being sitting on, on the two boards and ideas, you know, bubbling up. But you know, when you put the rubber to the roads to have the traction to actually implement these changes, it can be kind of sticky. You know, when you’re dealing with with leadership, with other organizations, multiple boards. So as as you talk to your next point, if you can try to work some of that into about the approach and and for a chamber listening, you know, not everybody’s has that perfect timing where everything aligns to just make it happen, but the vision is there of this is the direction our community needs to go. So if you can kind of speak to that a little bit too, as you in your response, yeah,

Warren Call 23:30
and there, there’s, there’s a lot there. But certainly, I think the key things here that we learned were that over communication. And I just mean complete, over communication and repeating. The reasons why we’re doing this were really key aspects of our approach, I think, because what we found was that, you know, people, people fear change. Yes, and organizations fear change. But really, when it comes down to it, there’s actually not a fear of change. They fear change because they fear loss. People equate change with loss. They think that the change you’re making is going to result in some kind of loss for them. And so we had to really do our homework to show that this change was not going to result in loss, it was going to result in gain for the community.

Brandon Burton 24:28
That’s a great framing. I like that. So

Warren Call 24:31
really thinking about, again, what you need when you’re going to implement big change like this, especially with 100 plus year organizations, and you know that legacy of the Chamber of Commerce and things like that, you’ve got to show that you’re respecting and building on that legacy and enhancing what it’s going to do going forward, not taking away from it. So part of that is, again, like I said, over communicating. So. Part of that is having a clear enemy. So again, from our perspective, that clear enemy was we lost 10% of the working age population between 2010 and 2019 right? I think I said 7% before, but it was actually 10% we lost 10% of that working age population in that that time period that got people’s attention, and that was the enemy, and we were able to focus our efforts around that enemy that allowed organizations to really work together. It allowed, you know, we had a business leader meeting with a county commissioner, meeting with a nonprofit, you know, hospital leader, all of them could agree that if you lose your working age population, you’re in trouble. So that that focused everyone’s mind, and it allowed us to do a couple of key things. Number one, I think it helped everybody kind of check their ego at the door, because it wasn’t about their organization or their project, it was about defeating that, that enemy, and then it also allowed us, I think, some latitude to what we ended up calling slaughtering some sacred cows. It’s

Brandon Burton 26:12
important, yeah, because everyone

Warren Call 26:15
realized that if we were going to address this issue of work, losing the working age population, we had to to come up with some new solutions. So that’s, that’s, that’s kind of the framing that helped us. I also think it was important that we did a lot of listening first. So we, we hired, sorry, we formed that kind of, what I called the Big Shots group, the key leaders across community as a steering committee, people that are trusted across business, industry, nonprofit, etc, that that helped. Then that steering committee was the one that gave me direction, and gave our consultants direction, and then we did these community wide forums, we did the listening tour, we did the workshops that were open to everyone. So we really we incorporated everyone’s feedback. And I think it’s important to do that regardless of what you’re doing. But here’s the thing you got to think about. And I think chamber professionals know this, you’re never going to make everybody happy, right? So that our new solution, our new structure, our new strategic plan, I think it’s well done. But of course, there, there’s going to people, be people that are going to not like some aspect of it, right? But being able to say we asked everyone for their opinion was really important, right? Even if we didn’t incorporate their opinion, maybe they didn’t like the final product, but we asked everybody. Nobody was nobody was on Ask. Everyone got tired of hearing my talking points because I repeated them so many times, and our steering committee repeated them so many times, but at least everyone felt like they were, they were heard.

Brandon Burton 28:03
It goes back to that over communication. And nobody can say, you know, I didn’t know this is happening, right? You’re talking about it, and you’re not catching them by surprise,

Warren Call 28:13
right? So that’s, that’s what resulted in, for example, the decision to have a hybrid structure, you know, our our leading private sector businesses were really tired of the chamber asking them for money and sponsorship and dues, and then the economic development corporation trying to get some funding, and then the tech incubator and blah, blah, blah, blah. So, you know, one entity that that has a really, you know, clear mandate. Now, you know, my private sector business leaders can say, I’m writing a check to traverse, connect, to do this, this and this right, so that, that we came really clear. And so it gave us, it gave us focus and clarity too. And we were, we were really intentional. And the end result of that, that hybrid structure and our strategic plan outlined exactly where we were going to lead, where we were going to support and where we weren’t going to get involved. So our focus became, you know, Travers Connect is going to our mission is to look at the economic vitality, strengthen the economic vitality of this region by growing family sustaining careers. So family sustaining careers year round. You can afford to live here. You can afford to put your kids in child care, etc. You can afford a house, a family, sustaining career is kind of the North Star. The way we do that in our three pillars of primary focus is the economic competitiveness of the region. Number one, strengthening that. Number two, direct support for business. Businesses, number three talent, making sure we’ve got talent attraction development and that continuum of of talent development, then we were really specific about where we’re going to support. We support the technology incubator in early stage company development. We’re not the leader in early stage. They’re the leader. We support them. We’re not the leader in housing development, but there’s an entity called housing north. They’re the leader in housing development. We support their efforts. So we’re really clear about, you know, some of those, there’s a community development. So some of the kind of more societal, environmental things. Yeah, we’re not the leader in that, but we support the community development coalition that is the leader in that. Okay,

Brandon Burton 30:51
this is all super fascinating, and I could see it’s a big undertaking as well, but being able to align the needs within the community to be able to say what’s important. How do we want to, you know, advance the future going forward, you said, create these family sustaining careers. Can you talk a little bit about some of the the outcomes that you’re seeing from these changes? How is the the temperature change? How has the mood changed in the community by implementing this. Well,

Warren Call 31:24
certainly, you know, again, as chamber professionals, know you’re never going to make everybody happy. So there’s still the same things that we always have, right? We still have challenges with with, you know, elected officials not agreeing with each other and different priorities. And always that tension between managing appropriate growth versus maintaining our character and our charm of our communities. Those are always things that continue to be items of debate. But I think where there’s where there’s really clear success in there’s probably three things I would touch on that have really been been clear success. First of those is under that, that banner of the Northern Michigan chamber Alliance, the opportunity to to leverage the connection between economic development and public policy, that that’s been really helpful for us across all of Northern Michigan, so that the Michigan Economic Development Corporation and other kind of policy leaders know what our priorities are, and they know that we’re we’re focused on it. They know that we need funding for our initiatives. They know that when we’re when we’re out there trying to recruit an advanced manufacturing company to come to Northern Michigan. They know that it’s part of a concerted strategy. So I think that that was one really, one really big win, especially since, you know, again, we’re a fantastic place to vacation. We’re a fantastic place for second homes and so a lot of policy leaders downstate, Michigan, that’s what they think of when they think of Traverse City. And that’s great. We want to, want them to continue to think about that, and that to be continued to be a strong part of our economy. But also we’re a great place for an advanced manufacturing entity to relocate. So that that’s one thing. The second thing is, it’s allowed us to leverage some unique attributes of our community to focus on cluster development, industry. Cluster development, we’re not going to be a place that Ford or GM are going to set up a huge production facility. That’s not the right fit for us. That’s the right fit for downstate Michigan, the right fit for us, from a cluster development, is freshwater research and innovation. We’re on Lake Michigan. We’re a great place for research and development as it relates to water technologies, marine technologies, things like that. We’re a great place for value added agriculture, as I mentioned, we’re a great place for testing and deployment of drone technologies. Our our local college is is a leader in the Midwest for drone technologies, and the way that drone technologies are need to be developed for rural communities. Think of agricultural uses. Think of rural healthcare delivery, both with drones and with telemedicine. Those are things that are unique to our region. So we’re leveraging our unique things to develop these industry clusters in rural health, in drone deployment, in marine technologies, to again, Grow family sustaining careers, right? We want, we want, you know, if, if some company is going to build the next, you know, advanced underwater drone research product, we want that to be, to be done here, right? Because we the. This is a good place to do it. And then the final thing I would talk touch on is Michigan’s creative coast, our our talent attraction initiative. We, I think we, we had a good plan and we built a good program. We also got really lucky Brandon, because we built this nationally focused talent attraction brand, and it went live about three weeks before the pandemic hit, wow, and one of our big initiatives as part of that was with remote work and technology. If you can work anywhere, why wouldn’t you want to work here? And our timing could not have been better, because all of a sudden the world realized they could do things from anywhere, and it’s been a huge growth for us. We’ve been able to attract entrepreneurs, remote workers, technology, biopharmaceutical entities. It’s just been phenomenal from a standpoint of attracting talent and attracting entrepreneurs,

Brandon Burton 36:03
that is huge. Yeah, I appreciate you touching on those three areas. And when you’re talking about economic development leveraging, you know, working with the public policy, the thought came to me, it used to be that the media kept government in check and made sure that, you know, trying to keep them honest, we’ll say, Right? But now I see that shift being more with with chambers and economic development on the advocacy front to keep governments in check. And if they know that you’re you’ve got your eye on these, you know, policies that affect business, then it’s hard to get something past a group, you know, of 18 chambers that are, you know, form this alliance to to make sure that business is being protected and it’s a fertile place for business to grow and thrive. So these, these are great areas, great successes that are, that are coming out of this and and I feel like in the format that we have for this podcast, we might have bitten off a little more than we could chew, because I could, I could listen to you for a couple hours, you know, going in depth with all of these, you know, different aspects and the the winds that are coming out of this. But I appreciate you being able to try to condense this to to work with this format, and kind of give a glimpse of what’s possible as you align resources and ideas and and getting you know the stakeholders involved, and really convening them all together to to create a good cause going forward in your community and region. As we start to wrap things up here, I wanted to see if there’s any any tip or action item that you would share with the Chamber who’s wanting to take their organization up to the next level. What would you suggest for them? You

Warren Call 37:51
know, what I learned in this process Brandon was, I think the key thing is leverage. Chamber leaders have way more leverage than a lot of them that real they realize or that they use. And I think, you know, chambers, chambers, and chamber leaders oftentimes are kind of the key servant of the community, and that’s that’s an important role, but I think it’s important to remember that it’s a servant leader role, and I think there’s an opportunity to have a bit more swagger in your community and and take the initiative. Be bold, you know, be authentic, but also be the authority, because, because the chamber knows more of what’s going on than most other people in the in the region, yes, build a vacuum, fill the vacuum of leadership, and really leverage that. And I think you can do that with your staff. I think you can do that with your board, your community, obviously, elected officials. So that’s what I would say. I think the best way to do that is, is to quantify things. And so metrics and quantifying helps you to leverage your authority.

Brandon Burton 38:58
I like that having the data to back up what you’re trying to accomplish and and I love that word leverage too. It brings power, quite literally, as you apply apply a force with leverage, you’re able to do a lot more than what you can do on your own. Absolutely, as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward, you know,

Warren Call 39:22
I think it’s gonna be really interesting. I think that, you know, as a as an industry, you know, as everyone knows, you know that that struggle for for member retention, I think, is always gonna is, is always gonna be there. And we don’t need to get into all the kind of the traditional things about, you know, retention and non dues, revenue and all that kind of stuff. But the key thing is, the chamber was always thought of as the authority, traditionally on business issues. Then the internet comes along and business leaders feel like they can kind of get information from other sources, so they don’t necessarily need to be involved. In the chamber, they don’t need to be members. I think that’s been a struggle over the last, you know, 20 years. I think maybe, and I don’t know for sure, but maybe as the internet becomes less of an information source and more of just a confusing mix of everyone’s opinion, maybe there’s a need again, for kind of that trusted authority, that authentic, trusted authority. And I would, I would love to see chambers and economic development organizations fill that role, because I think it could be kind of a full circle thing where, you know, there’s, there’s a million websites, and you really don’t know what’s going on, so you might need to just go talk to your local or regional chamber to figure out what’s really going on with business issues.

Brandon Burton 40:46
Yeah, I like that. I’ve never thought of it in that context before, but I like that. It gives you something to think about and see that that full circle come back around right? Well, warm for for those listening who may want to reach out and learn more about how things have developed, there at traverse connect, what would be the best way for them to reach out and connect with you? You

Warren Call 41:10
know, I’m, I’m 100% against email. I think it’s a waste. There’s, there’s actually a really good book called world without email. If you haven’t read it, you should my cell phone, 231-651-9174,

Brandon Burton 41:27
alright, we’ll get that in our show notes for this episode to make it easy for for people to reach out and connect with you. But Warren, this has been great having you on and thank you for you know, kind of pulling back the curtain and showing what took place to create travers, connect and aligning all those desires, interests, abilities, to be able to bring them in under one roof, and also shut off some of those sacred cows that may weigh you down a little bit. This is a great exercise that probably every chamber needs to go through on some regular basis, maybe not to the same extent, but to really see what the purpose is and what’s driving them. But thank you for sharing your experiences with us today. This has been fantastic, and I really appreciate it. My,

Warren Call 42:18
my, my appreciation to you, Brandon. I appreciate the opportunity. Thanks for having

Brandon Burton 42:24
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Mergers, Acquisitions, & Affiliations with Arthur Havlicek

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

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Our guest for this episode is Arthur Havlicek. Arthur is the President and CEO of the Southwest Michigan Regional Chamber of Commerce and native of the region himself. Arthur grew up in Bridgman and graduated from Lake Michigan Catholic High School in St. Joseph. He earned his degree in political science and public administration from Grand Valley State University in Grand Rapids, during which time he also began managing and winning political campaigns. After college, Arthur served as staff in the Michigan House of Representatives where he was involved with numerous significant legislative achievements. With nearly a decade in public service experience by the age of 27. Arthur decided to return home. He assumed his current position as president and CEO of the chamber in January of 2020, and has quickly become a recognized leader in both his industry and his community. Arthur currently serves as board member at the Michigan Chamber of Commerce, the Michigan Association of chamber professionals, other local organizations and as executive director of a local community and economic development organization called the Bridgman area Chamber and growth Alliance. He’s also a 2023, graduate of the prestigious business leads fellowship program through the US Chamber of Commerce Foundation. And Arthur, I’m excited to have you with us today here on chamber chat podcast. I’d love to just give you a moment to say hello to all the chamber champions that are out there listening and to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little

Arthur Havlicek 3:31
better. Well, sure. Thanks, Brandon. Thank you, first of all, for having me. I’ve I’ve listened to many of your podcasts with chamber professionals over the last four or five years as I’ve tried to look for advice and counsel on how to take our chamber to the next level. So hopefully I can pass along. Some tidbits to the next generation of folks hear something interesting about me is always a tough question to answer, I think but a development in the last four months was the birth of my daughter Nora. So it’s my wife and I’s first child born on September 12, and you know what a what a paradigm shift in anyone’s life. Having that first first kid and the love that you experience and the smiles that you get that just melt you and you know, being her dad as has quickly become my absolute favorite thing about life. And watching my wife grow into a beautiful mother and it’s been in the last four months have been incredibly rewarding. So I’d say that is that’s what’s top of mind right now,

Brandon Burton 4:47
as it should be. That is awesome. Congratulations to you and your wife. That’s cute. That is something exciting and goes quick. My oldest just turned 18 So it goes In a blink of an eye, and before you know it just cherish her.

Arthur Havlicek 5:06
I can’t even imagine her with teeth. And so thinking about her at 18 is

Brandon Burton 5:11
let alone an attitude, right? Yeah, wait for it. Tell us a little bit about the Southwest Michigan Regional Chamber. Just give us some context, the size of the chamber scope of work, you’re involved with staff budget, that sort of thing to kind of set the table for our discussion.

Arthur Havlicek 5:30
Sure. So we are a lean and mean organization. We are a Tri County Regional Chamber of Commerce in southwest Michigan serving Burien, Cass and Van Buren counties. We are a 501 C six, which many chambers most chambers are, I believe, and we have about 700 members spread geographically throughout the region. And in multiple states, which is easier for us to say considering we are right on the border of Indiana and often have to compete with Indiana for for business development. We have three full time people on staff, we are on the precipice of hiring a fourth person with some restructuring that we’ve been able to do. And our budget is really only around I’d say 400,000. So you know, that is something that we have taken a look at. And it’s a byproduct, I think of what I would consider the old chamber membership model. And we are trying to shift to a new organizational structure that allows us to fundraise for more impact, hire more staff, have more capacity, do more programming and better serve our businesses so we can talk about what that looks like. I believe that is that direction is the future of chambers. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 6:53
sounds like you’re on the precipice of some really exciting things and some big changes there at the chamber. So the topic that we settled on today I know there’s been a lot of interest in chamber world around this so I’m excited to get your perspective on it but around mergers and acquisitions and and bringing in affiliations you know, with with other chambers possibly so we’ll we’ll dive in much deeper on this conversation and your experience on it as soon as they get back from this quick break.

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All right, Arthur, we’re back. I would love to know just from the time you joined or came on board at the Southwest Michigan Regional Chamber. January 2020. There’s some things happening around that time right now, yeah. You can say that the applecart was being kind of tipped over business wise, you know, for for local businesses, small businesses, big businesses just in general, but Chambers as well. So through the pandemic, we saw, you know, some reorganizations with within the chamber world. And I’d love to maybe just get the background and history there locally. like for you guys, what did that experience look like and how things evolved since you came on board in January 2020?

Arthur Havlicek 10:06
Sure, so I get asked this all the time, basically having enough time to find the bathrooms before our entire world changed. And, you know, everyone’s first reaction is, is what terrible timing. I mean, that couldn’t be worse timing. And I genuinely believe the opposite. Actually, I was able to step in, in my role, find the bathrooms made a lot of the key community leaders that I would have to interface with and work intimately with over the, you know, the coming months, and years. And what I always say is, I didn’t have time to get into the chamber box. So we had no problem thinking outside of it, frankly, we were able to act very quickly, very boldly, which were two, I guess, crisis management principles that we actually intentionally adopted during that time. And we tried to innovate and do new things. And while you know, a lot of a lot of organizations, a lot of businesses were rightfully saying, I just don’t know what to do next, we were viewed very much as a leader, and a Pace Setter, and, and we’re able to rally the community around various causes and, and really just energize them. And then my background, in in Lansing, allowed me to read the tea leaves a little better than most, I think, and be able to predict what restrictions were coming next, or make phone calls and clarify what those restrictions included in Michigan, as you may know, is one of the more stringent or someone even say draconian in their handling of the pandemic. So we had businesses shut down for well over a year, entire industries. And again, being on the border, we felt that more deeply, because all of our consumers just drove 20 minutes to Indiana where everything was open. So we were I think it was our level of activity and how vocal we were saying, being pro business and pro public health are not mutually exclusive. There’s a way that we can do this and keep customers safe employees safe, keep our community safe, and keep commerce moving. And I think that the community responded to that. I think they respected that. And frankly, I think that that’s our role as Chambers of Commerce. That’s part of what we were formed to do. And we shouldn’t shy away from those conversations.

Brandon Burton 12:51
Right. So when you were given a little bit of background about your chamber, you had mentioned you guys are a Tri County Chamber. How long have you guys been at Tri County Chamber? And how did that come to be? Great

Arthur Havlicek 13:06
question. So our chamber has gone through multiple evolutions, I guess, this 2024 is actually our 70th anniversary. We started as the Twin Cities area Chamber of Commerce, and that would be in 1954. If the math is correct, and then operated like that became one of the largest chambers in the state, actually, at the time around the 1970s. With something over 1200 Members, I think, very, very impressive. And then is community started to move towards more economic development organizations and economic development focus. We merged with a community development corporation to form another organization and economic development organization. And our chamber sort of went away for a couple of years until the community raised their hand and said, We’d like them back. So then it came back as the cornerstone Chamber of Commerce serving its historical footprint of Northern Burien County. And it wasn’t until we affiliated with a another local chamber in my hometown of Bridgman that that decision was made. You know, looking around the country at some trends for towards regionalism, why don’t we regionalize we’re the largest chamber in the region already. This affiliation with a community, you know, miles away from our historical footprint is is a perfect opportunity. And so we rebranded from the cornerstone Chamber of Commerce to the southwest Michigan Regional Chamber of Commerce, and that would have been, I believe, in late, it was about 2018 2019. So really right before I I got here and just because of the leadership transition. You know, I don’t think that a lot of a lot of that leaving that regional mission had been able to be completed yet just pure sake of timing. And so that was something that I immediately put my foot on the gas, and said, If we’re talking about serving a broader territory, we need to figure out the best way to do that with a small team, we can’t be everywhere. And, and I think that we’ve been able to do that authentically, since my hire, we have absorbed actually two chambers. And that would be the Lakeshore Chamber of Commerce in a town called Stevensville. And then, the Baroda area business association in a small town called Baroda. Neither of those were, you know, we didn’t want to see them go, which is a point that I want to make very clear. We went through a whole process, which I can talk about later, where we were like, What can we do to prop you up but with, you know, just less engagement, from a volunteer perspective in which we see in every community across the country, it’s getting harder to sustain these entities, these all volunteer entities. And so they’ll look to organizations like ours that have the resources and the staff and say, Hey, can we just hand you the keys and trust you to do a good job, and you have to build trust to do that, but that’s what we’ve done. So I think our organization has, in its entire history, absorbed three chambers outright, and has affiliated with one being the Bridgman chamber and growth Alliance, which we’re, we’re going through changes. They’re exciting changes. Yeah.

Brandon Burton 16:55
Now, so that’s it is fascinating. And I, I think that’s important, you had said that you didn’t want to see these chambers or business associations Go Go away. Which is, I think, part of the reason why you guys stepped in to help help make that continue, you know, helped create a bridge, I guess, to continue on with the work that they’ve been doing there. But why don’t you touch a little bit more on that, that the approach with how you didn’t want to see them go, but also supporting them during that transition period?

Arthur Havlicek 17:27
Sure. So. So again, I think both in both of those cases, I mean, they had membership anywhere between 50 to 100, maybe a few more members. And so, you know, in that regard, they were, they were doing well, but it changed over on those volunteer boards, and some of the loss of some of that institutional memory and the burden of having these, typically business leaders spend that amount of time trying to breathe life into an all volunteer organization, in both cases, just became too much. So from the very first conversations we had with them, you know, my my stance was shutting down, you know, these entities should be always the last resort, in my opinion. And I think I, because I genuinely believe identity is important in, in our work in our industry, identity is a crucial component to, you know, promoting your area, but also to businesses wanting to invest in a specific organization. Were a good example of this. The Southwest Michigan Regional Chamber sounds like a massive, somewhat nebulous, right organization that I’m sure there are other businesses that are feeding into that I’d rather feed into my hometown chamber. Well, you know, you lose that hometown identity. And you might lose that business from understanding why it’s important to invest in a chamber in the first place. So I tried to flip it the model on its head and say, How can we prop up and help these community chambers so that businesses, you know, want to invest? They have that community pride in it, and then we can be the backend for it. So what we did not try to keep the answer short was, we had multiple, multiple, multiple conversations with their board of directors, in some cases, taking over a year to talk everything through. I had crafted decision documents that basically were, you know, all the decisions that would have to be made if we, you know, if we affiliate if we merge if we dissolve and, and all the things that would have to be thought through. And simply we we just work through it. And then in both of these cases that I’m referencing, You know, they really came to the conclusion, look, we have faith in you. We really just want to know that that our businesses aren’t being, you know, left hanging, it’s our way to close the loop. But, you know, we think you’ll do a good job. And so they made the decision to bold entirely and then come into us. And what we’ve tried to do is absorb not just those members, but those. Those board, that board of directors, we’ve tried to take them and say, Okay, is there a place on our board for you? Is there a place on our ambassador committee for you? And so that way, we still have their participation and engagement, but without the level of, of, I guess, commitment that they had to before that was becoming untenable? Yeah.

Brandon Burton 20:48
So you touched on some big things there. And one of the things that I was going to circle back to this identity in that sense of community. I’ve seen this. So in my, my background working with chambers is it’s been chamber publishing that I do so well, oftentimes, we’re working with chambers who have that very defined identity right there, the ABC, City Chamber, right, whatever their their town is. And once you get into a regional or multi County, it, it can kind of lose that sense of that community feel, especially with, as I say, with publications, right? It’s like, you want to highlight the things that community offers, and what’s your scope if you’re covering such a large area. So I like that you guys are being intentional with especially bringing their board members and ambassadors and trying to create space for them within your organization to keep that tie to those communities. But how do you try to enforce that, that sense of identity, that sense of feel, on the local level, I think that’s a that that’s a hard area to navigate. And hopefully, you guys are doing it in more of a successful way than some other chambers might have approach? Well, so.

Arthur Havlicek 22:11
So it is extremely difficult, especially when you’re covering a large territory with very few staff. So but but to be intentional in the communications you’re putting out to be intentional on if you have an event, make sure that you’re inviting, you know, that communities, core people, the identity thing. Chambers of Commerce, in my opinion, are legacy institutions in most of the communities that they exist in. Much like the public school system is in any of those communities. And, you know, the bad C word. And all of this is going to be consolidation. And there’s always fear of that, because I don’t want to lose my mascot. I don’t want to be that mascot, right. So you don’t want your schools to merge, even though that’s probably what’s best for the kids. It’s really no different in the chamber world. So finding a way to keep that identity and you know, celebrate the history and the legacy because you know that that chamber has accomplished a lot over its tenure. It’s it’s no small task. With the Bridgman chamber and growth Alliance, the the one that we affiliated, the organization we affiliated with, back in 2018, that that sparked our name change. I want to walk through that because I think it’s a good case study for you know, maybe what, what not to do, and then maybe what to do, and, and so when it was originally constructed, and I’m oversimplifying, but essentially, the CGA and its board remained in place remained its own organization of 501 C, three, completely independent, and we came in and became the service provider for all of those members. So those members started paying dues directly to us. So I’m abridgement business, I’m cutting a check to the southwest Michigan Regional Chamber of Commerce. There’s a variety of reasons that I think my predecessors structured it that way, you know, probably, you know, for no other reason other than we had the the CRM and chambermaster to, to be able to handle all of that and the staff to do the dues and collections. But from what I’ve observed over the now, you know, four years of sitting in this role is that’s a community that is immensely proud of its name. And I believe, you know, we believe so strongly in that identity piece. Over the last several months, we have actually been working to restore the members to that local chamber and serve more as the back end for it and allow it to operate and thrive hopefully as the Bridgman CGA once again, which is, I would like to think a prayer The radical step once you, once you fight and grab these members, most people will do anything to hold on to them. And I’m saying I think what’s best is to, you know, allow them to invest in their community chamber directly have that money, stay there be governed locally, which is also important. And then we will have agreements with that chamber to be the back end to hire the staff person that I referenced, the fourth person that will be coming on shortly. And and just since we’ve announced these changes, it has opened up multiple possibilities with businesses, with the municipalities themselves, the city and the township down there. So, you know, with all chambers being different, or communities being different, there’s no one right answer, you just have to figure out what works for that community. And sometimes, it takes a year of negotiations, sometimes it takes four years of affiliation, before you figure out exactly how it’s going to work. But if you’re authentic and you build trust, you’ll be given that leeway and hopefully end up in the right place.

Brandon Burton 26:10
So with these more recent, you know, opportunities, we’ll say, or experiences of absorbing these other organizations, it sounds like most of them were volunteered led, is that what I understand? So if you can, do you mind talking a little bit about the negotiations with that? Do they approach you did the chamber your chamber, approach them and say, we can help? Or how did these conversations begin and evolve? Yeah,

Arthur Havlicek 26:42
so in, in every one of these situations, the local chamber, so to speak, approached us. And, you know, and I think that probably happened, because we do our best to be good neighbors in the chamber space, I don’t view I view competition as being outside of the region that we’re in, not within it, right. And if we can work together to compete, we’re all going to win. And plus, I think if you are a business that believes in the value of one chamber, you’re helping all chambers, because then you’re you’re one more business that believes in the work that we do. So. You know, I think that we had some trust built to begin with, and we tried to be very collaborative with these organizations. And they were very collaborative, you know, back. But in every scenario, they approached us saying, Look, we’re at a crossroads, we can either try to hire, which we may not have, you know, the dollars to do. We made dissolve, we could fold into you. And we’re basically just saying, hey, look, we need help. And we take I mean, we took each of those conversations as seriously as we could, because that’s, that’s no small thing to say, Hey, we are we may need to wind down this organization. And the other thing, I guess, for our area, specifically, and probably many areas, across the country is our region is has a declining population and an aging population and so demographically, we’re moving in a direction where there are going to be fewer people with the capacity to serve in these volunteer roles. And so the, I guess, we use the term sprawl when we’re talking about, you know, economic development, the organizational sprawl, so to speak, you know, peaked when our population peaked. And as our population has declined, fewer people have been tasked with propping up, you know, not only infrastructure, but in organizations. And so we’re going to see a natural attrition, I think, and our stance is, well, we want to be able to help those that want to stay in existence and, and even help those that don’t. And so that’s what we’ve been doing. There’s no secret sauce. It’s just like, I keep saying the word authenticity, because it’s the I think the number one thing and it’s the thing that you can’t fake definitional but that’s what ultimately allows you to come in and serve these other areas. And if you have you you lead with that authenticity and you try to keep that identity you’re you’re halfway there.

Brandon Burton 29:32
Yeah. So in what you’re sharing through this experience, it sounds maybe a little different than what it would be looked like maybe to acquire another business right? I mean, looking at the the p&l and the financial statements and saying how profitable I get the the negotiations are going to be a different thing because it’s not like you’re saying, hey, we want to bring on you know, more work for maybe a little right Turn. But at the same time you want to support that, like you said, there’s no competition within the region, right? As long as you can build up the region, then you all win. So imagine are there other points and then negotiation would look different than like, looking to acquire a business?

Arthur Havlicek 30:17
Well, so I’m actually glad you made that point. And forgive me for not mentioning it sooner, they’re much like any business acquisition, there was an extensive due diligence process on our end to make sure that we wouldn’t be inheriting any, you know, debt or liabilities, obligations. And, and it required a deep dive into Financials, not not necessarily to see how profitable being in the nonprofit space, it wasn’t about how profitable these institutions were, but just making sure that we weren’t absorbing something that was underwater or had, you know, back taxes, you name it. So, you know, I’ll stress that that due diligence does have to occur, and it has to be done, just like you would in the in the private sector. With that, that level of care, that duty of care. But, you know, being in the nonprofit space, where profit is less important, you need enough dollars to be able to serve your your members effectively. It, it was a I would say a softer, right? There’s the hard skills and the soft skills it was it was the softer of the two that we lead with, because it was really about the end product and the work more than, than the dollars and, and that’s also a byproduct of us not being the initiator, that’s them coming to us and us just saying, How can we? How can we figure out how to make this work in a way that’s not going to put my organization at risk, which I was upfront about with all of them. And they all understood and hopefully appreciated some of the professionalism that that demonstrated that we’re we weren’t just Yes, we’ll take your members it was, let’s go through a process. And think about this. You take a peek at our finances, we take a peek at yours, we make sure everything is actually going to work. So that’s really how we went about it. So yeah, thank you for bringing that up. I should have mentioned. Yeah, that are an important part a lot sooner.

Brandon Burton 32:25
Yeah. No, I appreciate you touching on that. And as these negotiations went about, was it with the staff or the volunteer staff or with the boards? How,

Arthur Havlicek 32:37
how did the communications go? It was it was typically the executive committee of the board. And, and whatever chairperson or and or president that they had the there were no staff in any of these scenarios, which I think was one of the catalytic reasons that they approached us in the first place. Because they saw us as having that capacity to serve their members better and true to chamber forum. We’re trying to do what’s right by your members, even if it means, you know, saying goodbye to your own brand. That’s, that’s a level of integrity that I don’t think we see often. So. Yeah, it was it was the executive committees and the chairs, specifically that much of the negotiations occurred with.

Brandon Burton 33:24
Yeah, so if we can, I know, we’re getting a little short on time. But I wanted to touch a little bit more on the affiliation part, the aspect, because I don’t know, I think there may be some chambers out there that might shy away from doing affiliations with other chambers, because they feel like they might lose out on some revenue. So you had mentioned that there’s not competition within the region. I love that that point of view. But how would you suggest a chamber approach affiliations with neighboring chambers or chambers that can be supportive of one community? The other? Yeah,

Arthur Havlicek 34:04
so again, scenarios are going to be very different. I mean, in this in our scenario, we were a much larger entity affiliating with a much smaller entity, that dynamic is going to be different than if two chambers of equal size were trying to figure out how they could merge. And we’ve seen We’ve seen that happen quite a bit and just you know, you take the two community names and put them together. But in in, in our case, that affiliation agreement that we struck, when we signed a legal document, basically stipulating you know, the members would come our way and exchange services would go that way. And it talked about some of the finances and put sunsets and there was there was a phase in for the businesses because our dues structures differed. We were slightly more expensive, but but enough to might be a sticker shock. Docker would have, you know, prevented folks from making that transition. So, you know, I what I want to focus on is, is I guess how we’re going to do it, as opposed to how it was initially done because I think where we’re headed is a much more sustainable model. And, and what we’re doing is we, we worked with the city of Bridgman, in this case and Lake charter Township, which is the township surrounding the city to invest in a in a paid staff person that we ended up actually hiring but those dollars go to the CGA. The CGA, then through a management service agreement compensates us for hiring that individual. We supervise that individual on a day to day basis, but the CGA board actually sets the vision and the duties and responsibilities. And then the CGA board has seats specifically dedicated to each of those municipalities. So there’s all these layers of local control, local governance, and local identity. And like I said, we’re restoring members back to that organization. So that’s our good faith effort saying you’re pitching in, you’re pitching in, we’re taking the business investment pitching in. And then you know, for us, we know that that money is, I guess, coming back to us to be able to pay for that staff. But we’re really a pass through. And really, it’s our benefits, these Bridgman businesses are getting to chamber memberships for the price of one. And they’re able to utilize all of our benefits all of our infrastructure. And and and you know that that reduction in duplication is huge, it allows the dollars to go a lot further. And we’re thrilled to have boots on the ground down there, again, just focus solely on that community, because it’s a community with a tremendous amount of potential. So, you know, it’s, there’s just a ton of, and I guess, you know, just like the private sector, we went about it really, professionally to figure out if the finances would work, what the management service agreements would look like. There’s agreements between each individual municipality and the CGA and then the CGA with our organization, and then between us and the person we hire in so it’s, it’s, it’s complicated, but completely doable. Yeah.

Brandon Burton 37:32
Now, I appreciate you touching on that, because I think and obviously, everyone needs to take their their unique approach to it with every chamber and every community looking a little different. But that helps to give some perspective for chambers and maybe kind of kicking around the idea of affiliations. As we start to wrap up, I wanted to ask for chambers that are listening who are looking to take their organization up to the next level, what kind of tips or action item might you suggest for them to try to implement back at their organization?

Arthur Havlicek 38:05
Well, I’ve got a couple if you don’t mind. I use the word authenticity quite a bit. So I will lead again with that you, if you were being authentic, you’re paving a much easier path for everything that you try to undertake. The second thing I’ll say is that I know that all chambers are, are very different, they serve different purposes, different functions. And it might be my background speaking, but I do think that advocacy was a I mean, it’s it is a primary reason why chambers exist. And you know, I It’s an intimidating arena to get into, but there’s a way to do it again authentically, where, where you’re not going to rock the boat, necessarily, but you’re still taking a stand for your members. And the analogy I use here all the time is just about every community has like a humane society, right? Taking care of, of animals, and no one is going to them and asking them why they’re so pro pet. So why would I entertain anyone coming to me and saying, Gosh, why are you so pro business? Well, that’s what I engineered. That’s my job. And when I put it like that, I usually am able to, you know, calm down, whoever is getting a little fired up about the positions I’m taking and just saying it is my job to stand in the gap for these members. You are entitled to disagree with it. And I’m going to serve you anyway. It’s all about the ecosystem. But the larger point the third thing I want to mention is we need to be unafraid to take risks. We need to be bold. There’s the out with a Out with the old in with the bold saying, I think that we as an industry need to be bold. Old in identifying the gaps in our communities and moving unapologetically to fill them. We have tried to do that in multiple different scenarios. And it’s been successful, it’s been scary, but successful. And so like the businesses we serve, you have to take risks in order to advance. And I think part of that risk is also re envisioning what your structure looks like. So the second part to part three of what I’m saying here is, it goes back to something I said all the way at the beginning of the call, which is we’re looking at our structure, which was primarily dues and event revenue, non dues revenue based, you’re you’re very limited in the amount of dollars that you’re able to raise in that way. And, you know, every time you onboard a new member, that’s a new set of responsibilities. And by the time you get enough to hire someone at a at a living, livable wage, you’re behind the eight ball again. So like, most chambers, now, we are moving in the direction of forming a Southwest Michigan Regional Chamber Foundation, a 501 c three arm that will be a subsidiary of ours, and allow us to again, fundraise for impact, increase our capacity and improve the quality of services that we provide to our businesses. And and that’s going to be a paradigm shift for us. First time in 70 years, although being our 70th anniversary, I’ve been going back and looking at our, our, our old newsletters, and in 1968. Our organization’s leadership identified foundations as the future for chambers all the way back in 1968, which blew my mind. But for one reason or another, they never acted on it. Like I said, we the society went the route of economic development organizations instead. So we’re making good on that. This year will be by the time this airs will have announced our foundation and, and it’s going to be home to our leadership programming, some business development, programming and some community development work that we intend to do. And it’s just it’s an exciting change. And I think it’s going to be transformational, not only for our organization, but for it. And it is a bold change. And again, we won’t, we won’t thrive, I think unless we do that our area won’t Thrive unless we do that. And so while we’ve been operating the old way, for 70 years, we’re going to now operate the bold way, and I couldn’t be more excited about it.

Brandon Burton 42:39
Yes, I love that. And I’m going to put a plug in here for anyone who hasn’t read or shoes versus chess by Dave Atkinson. Read it, it has a great section all about foundations and why that’s the future of chambers going forward. But that rolls right into the next question about how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward? I think you just touched on it.

Arthur Havlicek 43:05
I think that chambers have a unique opportunity with the, with the dynamics that all of our communities are facing guarantee just about anyone listening to this call is probably struggling with affordable housing or childcare or they want more trails, and better schools, and all of these things that are more difficult to solve more interconnected than ever. And there is no organization in any community, in my opinion, better situated to solve these problems than a chamber of commerce, because we’re the connective tissue between the public private and nonprofit sector. And it’s not necessarily the chamber that has to do it all we have to bring the folks together, you know, through our ability to convene, to solve and tackle these major problems. And the other thing I’ll say is, you know, our situation where we’re situated, being the largest business advocacy organization in each of our communities, presumably, that that connection to the private sector, I think that we don’t put enough stock or credit into it. Because if you think about it, and this is a major, I guess, soapbox that I like to get on. The private sector, generally either solves the problems in our community through innovation, or they generate the capital for the nonprofit sector or the government to solve those problems. Either way, it starts with the private sector, and us with our relationships, our inherent closeness to those businesses, makes us again, the best organization and each of our communities to take a leadership role and tackle these big issues simply by getting the right people around the table. And, again, that might be an intimidating thing for a lot of chambers, especially, you know, those that are again short staffed, or we have a lot of turnover in our industry. And they might not feel like they have that they’ve earned the street cred in their community, as an individual. If if you’re part of a chamber of commerce, you have that air cover, you have that responsibility. You can make big things happen. And you need to again, move unapologetically in the direction that solves the need for your members and your members. Those businesses who take risks all the time will see you do that will appreciate it and will invest in you to help you be successful. I

Brandon Burton 45:43
love that that really exemplifies the power that Chambers of Commerce hold that everything starts with the private sector. So thank you for for pounding on that a little bit. And getting on your soapbox is well worth it. My pleasure. Well, before I let you go, I wanted to give you a chance to share any contact information for listeners who might want to reach out and connect and learn more about how you guys have gone about these mergers and acquisitions and and affiliations, what would be the best way for a listener to reach out and connect? Sure, so

Arthur Havlicek 46:15
you can visit our website at www.SMRChamber.com and in fact, if you’re listening to this podcast, I’d Can I encourage you to visit our website because you will see a toggle in the lower right hand corner for our affiliate the Bridgman CGA, which was a way to even link the websites together in a in a very usable fashion. And again, keeping their identity front and center. So visit our website SMRchamber.com, you’ll find our contact information plastered all over there. You can feel free to email (ahavlicek@smrchamber.com) or call don’t hesitate to reach out we’d love to share what we know or or even brainstorm because there’s no right way to do any of this. It’s it’s kind of feeling your way through it. And we’re happy to be that sounding board at the very least. or explain you know, what we ran into and what issues could be avoided or successes could be achieved. That’s

Brandon Burton 47:16
awesome. I do appreciate that. We’ll we’ll get that in our show notes for this episode too. So listeners can look it up there and connect with you but really appreciate you spending time with us today here on chamber chat podcast sharing your experiences and and perspective in what can be difficult conversations difficult transitions from one organization to another but also keeping a focus on that identity and that sense of community all along the way. So thank you for for being with us and sharing these things with us today.

Arthur Havlicek 47:50
Thank you, Brandon.

Brandon Burton 47:51
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