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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.
Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to the Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your host, Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.
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Brandon Burton 1:44
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Our guest for this episode is Lew Ebert. Lew is a seasoned State Chamber executive and CEO with over 40 years leading statewide business organizations in three different states and Pennsylvania, Kansas and North Carolina. Over a long and successful career, he’s developed a proven ability in business development, revenue generation capital and political fundraising, communications, and leading transformational change. As a nationally recognized State Chamber leader, he’s developed a unique set of best practice skills, what works and what doesn’t work and a deep expertise working with top professionals in our industry. Lew, I’m excited to have you with us today on Chamber Chat Podcast, I’d love for you to take a moment to say hello to all the chamber champions that are out there listening and share something interesting about yourself. So get to know you better.
Lew Ebert 2:47
Wonderful. Thanks very much, Brandon, great to be with you and appreciate the opportunity. I love the title. By the way, I mean, chamber leaders are champions, and they’re leaders of an important movement, no matter where they’re working. In my case, as you indicated, over four decades, I’ve had a unique opportunity to kind of work in a number of different states. But more importantly, really been very fortunate to get to know a lot of great leaders and a lot of great mentors, and even in our profession, learn from some of the best in the business. So part of what I’m now doing in my second chapter, if you will, is kind of category you know, kind of collecting intellectual property and sharing best practices and ideas. But it’s a it’s a wonderful opportunity to help leaders make the kind of impact in their state and regions like I found in my career. So good to be with you.
Brandon Burton 3:40
I love it. We’re in the same business just maybe in different mediums, right. sharing best practices. Yeah,
Lew Ebert 3:47
absolutely. Yeah, we’ve lived at the intersection of business, politics and the economy for over four decades. So it’s been kind of an exciting journey. And I’ve obviously seen a lot done lot figured out what works and what doesn’t work, as you’ve indicated, and someone told me a long time ago, I think was Mark Twain suggested that the definition of a consultant is you know, we have to learn from other people’s mistakes, because we won’t live long enough to make them all ourselves.
Brandon Burton 4:13
That’s a great point. I love it. That should be a t shirt. Well, and tell us a little bit about the consulting work that you do just to maybe set the stage a little better. I think you shared your bio and everything. But what I didn’t share is you worked with over half the states in the United States as far as their state organizations go. So tell us a little bit more about that and the type of work you do.
Lew Ebert 4:38
Well, you know, as you indicated at the outset, I’ve had a chance to work in three different states, you know, red state, blue state, big state, small state. So kind of have unique perspective. I think it’s often said, I’m sure you’ve had guests on your podcast suggest if you’ve seen one State Chamber, you’ve seen one state chamber or chamber in general, but I think what I’ve been able to kind of connect is one of the things they all do when All. So regardless of size, regardless of geography, regardless of their economy, regardless of red state, blue state, purple state, whatever the demographic looks like politically, really helping them navigate, you know, kind of a path for success, and ultimately have an impact. I think the common thread is that most chamber leaders, including State Chambers, leaders kind of see their job as really doing three big things. They raise awareness to, you know, challenges as well as present problem, you know, solutions to those problems, they raise money to address those. And ultimately, they try and find a way to have impact, whether it’s job creation, economic growth, or moving their state forward from a competitive standpoint. And that’s mostly what I’m working with, as I’ve worked around the country with big state, small states, New States Chamber leaders, you know, there’s sort of not a common body of knowledge about how this business works. Because I think unlike a local chamber, state chambers have to sort of navigate all the different dynamics, with governors with legislative leadership, people of different parties, you know, kind of the unique regional business communities, even in the state where I am here in North Carolina, where I finished up my chamber career. You know, you got a wide disparity of regional challenges, you know, rural urban, in my case, you know, Raleigh, Charlotte. So, again, you’re sort of bringing together, you know, what are the what are the most impactful ideas that can move the state forward?
Brandon Burton 6:35
That’s right. And I think that actually sets the table very well for our discussion today as we focus our conversation around the the impact that state chambers are making across the United States. And we’ll dive in deeper on this conversation as soon as we get back from this quick break.
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Donna Novitsky
Thanks, Gina. Wondering how you can have your own community card for free. Check out yiftee.com for next steps. Now back to the show.
Brandon Burton 9:38
All right, Lew, we’re back. So tell us I like the idea of you’re taking these best practices as you work with states across the country. You’re seeing some of these differences that you mentioned. You need to work with governors you need to talk to you know, work with people, different political backgrounds, different things, you know, businesses regionally and And yet, there seems to be some things that maybe float to the surface that are common amongst all the the State Chambers. What are some of those maybe keys for success or things that you’re seeing these chambers do effectively, to share some of these best practices, and then we can go the direction of impact that they’re making.
Lew Ebert 10:22
I tell you, Brandon, sort of the handbook for my career everywhere I’ve worked. And even when I meet with new leaders across the country, it’s an old book, but it’s still very timely. Jim Collins is the author of a book called Good to Great. And it’s sort of in my career, it’s been sort of a handbook on how to build high performing teams, and ultimately have an impact everywhere I’ve worked and even where I’m consulting with folks, and I kind of mentioned seven quick points. And we can come back and talk about any one of these that you want to. But I think the first line of the book talks about Good is the enemy of great. And I think, you know, most of us want to work somewhere. That’s great. I think it’s critical to know your why. So Jim Collins talks a lot about your hedgehog concept. What are you deeply passionate about, and something you do better than anyone else in your community in your state? I think the third thing is have a clarity of vision, you know, why are we here? What what’s our main purpose? You know, why do we exist? The fourth thing, I think, everywhere I’ve worked need to have a B hag, a big, hairy, audacious goal. And in many cases where I’ve worked, it’s how do we become the best state for business? How do we become more competitive? I think that hedgehog concept, the fifth point provides not only clarity of vision, but it also turns your flywheel. And Jim Collins talks about that in terms of how generates revenue. Because at the end of the day, you need to attract revenue to hire the talent to accomplish the mission. And that’s never changed over my career. I think the other thing that chambers sometimes are afraid to do, but I think it’s really important. The sixth point is the Stockdale principle. Admiral Stockdale was the highest ranking POWs in a Vietnamese POW camp. And he, he, he became very focused on, you know, kind of recognizing the sober assessment of their current reality. And he saw over his time in incarceration that the POWs and embrace their reality, and realize we’re gonna be here for a while, tended to be the ones that make it, the ones who didn’t, didn’t seem to make it out of the camp. And then the seventh thing I found in my career experience is, you’d have the right people on the bus and in the right seats. So it’s an old axiom that people are your best asset. And the only thing I would put kind of put a fine point on that Brandon is the right people in the right jobs are your best asset. So those are probably the things that I’ve kind of seen that has been kind of a kind of a Northstar for my career, you know, leading and running and working in State Chambers, both as a CEO and also working with leaders in our profession.
Brandon Burton 13:02
So I think some of these chambers get now I’m trying to figure out there why having that clear vision as you. And I think these two points are kind of related to the good being the enemy of great and having that big, hairy, audacious goal, right? So you can have these goals. And as you work towards them, sometimes you let good get in the way of great along that way. Do you mind touching on either one of those points, or maybe a combined just maybe some things that you’ve seen throughout your career that would point to those as examples?
Lew Ebert 13:34
Yeah, I think probably the best example, when I look at what some of the best state chambers in America are doing right now, the way they embrace both of those concepts, you know, Good is the enemy of great and driving and leading changes. They’ve sort of evolved from, you know, not just advocacy organizations, but they’re really becoming seen as agents of change. And there’s at least a dozen State Chambers in the country that have pretty impressive blueprints or visions for the future of their state over the next 10 to 15 years. And many have positioned themselves as the state’s futurist. So they’ve really sort of elevated their importance in estate. And when you think about it, you know, governors come and go, and in most states you can think of, but the constant is the State Chamber in the business community. So what many states have done is a sort of move from good to great to say not only do we want to focus on how to be great, but we have a plan to make our state great. And I think that’s where the profession has evolved. So it’s no longer about just you know, working with the legislature to defeat bad legislation, which is still important and beat up on the trollers in unions, but it’s really about how do you bring solutions to move your state forward and make a big impact on the most pressing issues in many states kind of holding them back? And that’s where I think states chambers at least have embraced not only their new role, but actually put a methodology in place. Ways to drive and lead and keep track and grow and keep change front top of mind, and also hold politicians accountable. So I think in a lot of states, it’s no longer, you know, what the state legislature wants to get done for business. In many cases, the State Chamber is sort of setting the tone for the kind of change that has to happen to make their state great and more competitive. Right. So
Brandon Burton 15:25
as we look at change, like you said, having these goals trying to make your state great, and your community great for those local chambers listening, you mentioned the Stockdale principle. So there’s got to be a fine line somewhere of Yeah, realizing and accepting your the sober assessment of your current reality, as you put it, or as Jim Collins puts it, versus having a healthy dissatisfaction for your current reality and wanting to improve it. Can Can you talk to that a little bit?
Lew Ebert 15:55
Yeah, you know, random, in my experience, most powerful tool is data. And there is just dozens, if not hundreds of data points and studies, that kind of, you know, surface some of the challenges. And, you know, everywhere I’ve worked, I’ve, you know, I’ve used member polling data to surface these challenges. I’ve used state to state competitiveness data to surface these challenges. So it’s never been my opinion of what needs to be addressed. But it’s like, here’s what business thinks needs to happen. Here’s what state competitiveness metrics show. So if we’re in a state, we’re in the sort of the bottom third of every major ranking known to mankind, you know, we’re not going to make our state great by not talking about that. So there has to be a way I think you’re making a great point. You know, we don’t want to be sort of the the chamber of bad news, right. But we do have to, you know, going back to what chamber leaders do, they create awareness. And in some cases, the awareness is, you know, we have some things we got to work on. But but right beside it is they’re also bringing solutions. So they’re not just sort of throwing a flag saying we’re bad. But here’s how we get better. And then bring the resources to the table to help make that happen, and ultimately have impact because you’re absolutely right. I mean, just drawing attention to, hey, we’re 38th in this ranking, whatever that is, you know, that’s a data point. But what are we going to do about it, and I think that’s where chamber leaders are now kind of leaning into, we have to get better if if we have a B hag to be a great place for business, or the best state for business, or go from good to great, you know, you can’t, you can’t get from good to great, by only getting better at what you’re good at. Right? You have to eventually get better at what you need to work on. And I think state chambers have a role in sort of surfacing both, you know, here’s what we’re good at. But here’s some things we have to work on.
Brandon Burton 17:51
Yeah, I like that approach. Because I can see some, some chambers, maybe in certain circumstances where they say, our governor just is not business friendly. And there’s nothing we can do about that until the next election, and almost use that as an excuse of your, their current the sober assessment of their current circumstance. But I like the idea of still having those goals, still trying to press forward, still trying to make that case. So even when that next election does come around for the next governor, or whatever that elected position may be, to be able to say, here’s some things that are important to the business community in our state.
Lew Ebert 18:31
And I think, Brandon, you’re making a great point. I think, business wants to see these things, politicians when I see these things, but what can we be for? And I think chambers have a responsibility to be for things, not just against things, and being forward thinking and proactive and future focused. You know, there’s a lot of things chambers are for. But there’s also things along the way that we have to be against, because they kind of moved the state in the wrong direction. But I think at the end of the day, most business leaders and CEOs want to see an organization that’s stepping forward indicating what we’re for.
Brandon Burton 19:05
Yeah, I like that. It keeps a positive approach on it, for sure. Absolutely. So as you look at these states that you’ve worked with, we’re talking today about the big impact that you’re seeing State Chambers make in their communities. And I mentioned before we started the recording, I recently had Glenn Hamer on the podcast from Texas. So he talked about some of the things that they’re doing in Texas. But maybe as you as you talk about the impact these state chambers are having maybe through the lens, how local chamber can get more involved with their state chamber as well and supporting that work.
Lew Ebert 19:44
That’s a great point, Brandon, and again, over my career when I first started doing this my first job out of college, you know, four decades ago, which seems like forever, you know, local chambers and state chambers were really seen as competing for membership competing for mindshare. and had a very similar role. I think in most states in America now, it’s pretty clear that they’re both different organizations, but they complement each other. So in many states, State Chambers of Commerce have, you know, put together kind of a chamber Federation, where they have local chambers sort of working hand in hand with the State Chamber, on the most pressing issues affecting the economy. Because I think at the end of the day, if I was running a local chamber, anywhere in America, I don’t want to be working with the statewide chamber, because the kinds of issues that are happening in state capitals affects my members in my community. But there’s no local chamber anywhere in America, that has enough political clout, and even enough votes to move the needle on anything at the Capitol. So being part of a statewide Federation, if you will, of local chambers rolled up under a State Chamber banner working on the big issues, because when when you affect change in any state and improve your competitive position, you know that that helps every community in the state. But I think where local chambers have become more aware, I think is, you know, lobbying, advocacy, political action, getting big things done at the capitol is kind of what State Chambers do. And local chambers play an important role. And plenty of things they do locally, moving their community forward. And even you know, as as the world has evolved, they’re picking up a lot more community based groups that they’re being, you know, leading the kind of non government groups and being forced to do more than they used to be able to do. So I think recognizing that there’s a statewide advocacy organization that can be part of and on that team is a compliment rather than a competition.
Brandon Burton 21:44
Right. So throughout your career throughout maybe the history of State Chambers, local chambers, and it’s a long history looking back, but do you feel like there’s been a shift, and maybe the the mission and purpose had mentioned before, they were kind of seen as being competition to, to local chambers.
Lew Ebert 22:03
I think at the end of the day, many of them have the same last name. But I think the roles we play are different. And I think that’s just evolved, given the nature of how things are happening. And what I like about how the evolution has happened is partially it’s happened, Brandon, because where the action is, now, it’s no longer in Washington, DC. So when I first started doing this 40 years ago, the sea was sort of the epicenter of all things that affected business. And now I think what you’re finding is with the level of acrimony, and somewhat dysfunction, the action is now in the States. And I think some of the states that that you will have on this program have sort of figured out how they can crack the code at their state capitol, and really improve their business climate in such a way where they can become a lot more attractive for job creations and economic activity. So that that’s probably where local chambers and state chambers have figured out, hey, wait a minute. If we work together, we create economic opportunity for our state. And at the end of the day, that’s what all of our members fill in the blank state want to have happen, we want to have a big impact for our state, create jobs and more economic opportunity. So and in many ways to Brandon, the, the major members they all have in common, are really kind of very intent on making sure that focus happen. So I think the customer is also driving the need to work together to make the kind of big impact of the state level that’s needed. Right.
Brandon Burton 23:30
So maybe this may be a step back a little bit in our discussion, but going back to one of those points that Jim Collins made, so the hedgehog concept and the revenue for maybe a local chamber who maybe you know, I’m sure they see their State Chambers a good ally, but maybe they still do see that certain level of competition because they take some of the same big members from their community. Can you talk a little bit to how some of these State Chambers go about their their budget, their financing to maybe clear some some money? Why would they local chambers that might be confused on it?
Lew Ebert 24:07
Yeah, you know, I think at the end of the day, a typical local chamber, probably 80% of their members have less than 10 employees. And for a State Chamber, it’s just the opposite. So I think the big trend over time, State Chambers in most states only have about one to 2% of all the companies in his state are members of the State Chamber. But I think what’s happened over time, Brandon is across the board, most state chambers have seen a decline in the number of members, and a pretty significant increase in the revenue per member. And I think that just recognizes how they’ve grown their business model. And also, you know, the mission they have in terms of their hedgehog concept. You know, not a lot of businesses 99% In some cases, don’t really embrace the mission and vision of why a State Chamber is needed. So it’s kind of been necessary to say okay, well If we need more believers in the cause of advancing economic growth in our state, and a lot of states have been very attractive, very successful and attracting Cornerstone investors from major companies, as I suggested earlier, they’ve eliminated the competition of, in many cases, attracting small businesses. And they’ve effect effectively said the local chambers. You know, anybody under 10 employees, for example, is automatically a member of the State Chamber. So they’ve created a grassroots network to effect change. But they’ve also sort of gotten out of the business of saying, we’re not going to hire a bunch of salespeople to come into your town to recruit small business members. But because at the end of the day, we’re still back to what what State Chambers do well is making impact on the big issues that affect business in their state. And it’s just not cost effective to use a lot of those resources to go find money, it’s more effective to aggregate the resources to make a big impact on the big issues that affect businesses in the state. And that’s where most of the chambers are spending their time and resources.
Brandon Burton 26:05
Yeah, and I know every chamber, I’ve seen one chamber seen one chamber, but a lot of chambers have very similar missions and purposes behind the work they do and, and it should align very well with their state chamber. So I hope that those local chambers may see a conflict of interest with the State Chamber. I hope that’s fewer and fewer. Today, I know what it was in the past and building a stronger relationship, because oftentimes is the state chambers that are putting on a state or regional conference, you know, to share some of those best practices and help support the local chambers.
Lew Ebert 26:40
Absolutely. And again, I think you pick the right issues. I think a lot of State Chambers, local chambers have a lot in common when you start talking about how we can make our state more competitive and attractive to business, how we can address workforce and education and talent issues. How can invest more in infrastructure? Those are at least three issues where I would guess most local chambers in America and most state chambers in America would say that that’s kind of a sweet spot. No disagreement here, let’s figure out how to do it. But I think most of the chambers would say quickly, we can’t do it by ourselves. And most local chambers would probably also admit we can’t do it from our community. But collectively, we can make the kind of impact that’s needed. That’s right.
Brandon Burton 27:22
That’s a great way of summarizing that. So Lou, I like asking everybody I have on the show about maybe it for a tip or an action item for listeners who want to take their chamber most been local, or maybe regional chambers, but I’m taking them up to the next level. What What tip or action item might you suggest for
Lew Ebert 27:43
them? You know, I would suggest if they haven’t read, good degrade, you know, go get the book. It’s not a new book, but I think it’s sort of a handbook on how they can develop their organization and, you know, accelerate and create more opportunity and have more impact. And then the other thing I would suggest, and I know many of them do, I’d invest in knowledge acquisition benchmarking. So I’d really, as I’ve done over my career, you know, what are the best organizations in America look like? And how can I learn from them. So it’s, you know, get your CCE certified chamber executive credential, you know, become a cAe, if you want to certified Association Executive, many of them go to institute and get your IOM certification, some participate in a SAE, or ACC. Those are all great organizations to really put leaders of any level and I found even late in my career. There’s always great new ideas, great new learnings, and the profession keeps evolving. So I think have a great sense of awareness, it’s important to know what you don’t know, as well as to know what you know. And I think that people that are sort of open to understand like, Hey, I just don’t know how to do this. But let me go figure out how to do that. And who can I learn from, I think is a great skill that continue to evolve.
Brandon Burton 28:59
Yeah, I like those tips. I always like when you get a bonus tip like that, too, you know, not just one. So there you go. So the other question I like asking everyone I have on the show is as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going
Lew Ebert 29:15
forward? I think we’re just sort of hitting stride in terms of the importance and the role they play. And I think a lot of it is not just, you know, our politics in DC, but I think politics in general, you know, we live in a more divided time than probably ever before in our history. And I think the common denominator chambers of all varieties bring to the table is their kind of the common sense, middle. They represent a business community, they represent leaders that want to figure out and kind of come up with solutions. You know, they’re not partisan. Usually. They’re not philosophical. There’s sort of the pragmatic, common sense middle. And I think that role, you know, you know, probably 20 years ago was probably not as important as it is today. But there has to be a way and a place where business politics and the economy can kind of intersect. And right now more than ever, it’s the Chamber of Commerce.
Brandon Burton 30:09
Right? I like that. And I would agree with that, too, is that the future chamber? We are hitting that stride right now as far as importance and relevance and keep leaning into it. Then Lou, I’d like to ask if there’s, for those listeners who want to maybe reach out and connect with you learn more about the work you’re involved with? What would be the best way for them to reach out and connect with you?
Lew Ebert 30:33
Yeah, my email is EbertLew@gmail.com. Or you can call me on my cell phone. And if I’m awake, it’s on 919-614-2810.
Brandon Burton 30:46
All right, and we will get that in our show notes for this episode, as well. So anybody shows up and get that that contact information. Great. I really appreciate you spending time with us today on chamber chat podcast, you bring a great perspective, from the experience you’ve had working with a number of a wide number of chamber of State State Chambers across this great country. So thank you for sharing that, that insight, some of these lessons that you’ve learned, and I think we’re all better for it. So thank you.
Lew Ebert 31:14
All my best all your viewers. Thank you.
Brandon Burton 31:16
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