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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.
Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your hosts Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.
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Brandon Burton 1:44
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Our guest for this episode is Brian Francis. Brian is founder and CEO of Lumin Strategies, a firm that helps Chambers of Commerce build eight plus advocacy programs through one on one consulting and a signature of advocacy framework online program. Brian’s experience covers nearly all facets of the policy and political world from political campaign leadership on successful bond referendum to successful advocacy as a registered lobbyists. He is past public affairs officer for Mecklenburg County and past vice president of public policy programs at the Charlotte Chamber of Commerce. He founded lumen strategies in 2016. This year, Brian joins the faculty for the US Chamber Institute of Organizational Management. He has a bachelor’s degree in political science from Davidson College, whose basketball program he’s supported since before Steph Curry. Brian, I’m excited to have you with us today here on Chamber Chat Podcast, I’d love to give you a moment to say hello to all the Chamber Champions who are out there listening and to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better. Well,
Brian Francis 3:11
great. Thanks, Brandon. I’m really excited to be with you all today. And you hit on one interest, perhaps interesting thing about me I’m big, big college basketball fan. So the last couple months have obviously been a lot of fun for me, both for my alma mater, Davidson College, but also in the Big East. My son is a freshman at Butler this year. And so we’ve been following them. A more controversial thing about me perhaps one of my passions is that I think we should eliminate timezones. And we can certainly talk about that. But that’s probably a different podcast.
Brandon Burton 3:42
Yeah, you can get on your soapbox there for a moment right. Now, that’s great. So I’d like for you to take just a few minutes and tell us a little bit about lumens strategies, what the company is like, who you serve, and it’s about advocacy, but just maybe in a brief nutshell, to kind of set the stage for discussion. Yeah,
Brian Francis 4:04
probably like a lot of companies. You know, we’ve evolved over time. So we’ve been in business for about eight years, we started as a strategic communications consulting firm, that really dabbled in a lot of different areas. But over the last several years, we’ve really honed in on chambers of commerce and helping them build advocacy programs. And we we do that two ways. One, we work one on one with chambers in a consulting role many times serving essentially as the VP of public policy for their Chamber of Commerce. In fact, some of our clients put us on their staff page as their Director of Advocacy or VP of public policy. And we also work with chambers of commerce through our signature online program, the advocacy framework. This is oftentimes for chambers that maybe are a little bit smaller, aren’t looking for the kind of the investment required to have somebody working directly with them. But what to get involved with advocacy wants to learn how to do advocacy, and through our program, we basically teach them how to institute and run a public policy or advocacy program.
Brandon Burton 5:06
That’s very helpful. And as listener might guess, we’ve decided on a topic for our discussion today to be centered around advocacy since you guys are kind of the experts on that. So we look, we look forward to dive in deeper into this topic as soon as we get back from this quick break.
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Alright, Brian, we’re back. So before the break, when you were telling us a little bit about lumen strategies, it’s obviously a company that you built around helping chambers of commerce and build advocacy programs. Why do you think that advocacy programs are so important for chambers to be involved with?
Brian Francis 7:23
Well, if you think about chambers of commerce, historically, really, the whole reason we have Chambers of Commerce is to help businesses in a community grow. And chambers do a lot of great work around networking activities, helping their members meet potential customers. But I think a core part of helping the business community grows, ensuring that there is a public policy climate that allows for businesses to grow. And really, Chambers of Commerce were instituted to represent business interests in their community. And so from a foundational perspective, I think it’s really important. I think it’s also really important as you talk to maybe your higher investor members, you know, a lot of times if you have a manufacturer in your community, they’re not looking to sell to the community, their market is global. If they’re going to get involved in the chamber, they need a different value proposition. And really the value proposition for them is what are you doing to make the overall business climate better, so their business can succeed? Absolutely.
Brandon Burton 8:25
And I know chambers of all different sizes, you know, they’re in different areas of spectrum, right, as far as being involved with advocacy. So I’m hopeful that our conversation today will help shed some light on different ways to get involved on an advocacy front, whether that’s bringing in somebody like yourself to help with that effort, or just to expose them in ways to to better support those business members that they have. So kind of along those lines with advocacy. I think there’s a real argument to have ag advocacy as an investor hook. Right. So as you’re going after new members, you’re trying to bring in new businesses to join the chamber. How would you see using advocacy as an investor hook? Well,
Brian Francis 9:15
I really do think it is something and you have to think about your high level investors, it is a way to get them to participate more in your chamber and to put more money into your chamber. And you there’s some four boxes out there people will have probably seen when you think about your Chamber members, you have chambers who Chamber members who are looking to get something from your chamber, and you have Chamber members who are looking to get something done. And one of the things we talked about is you we often think about the return on investment for members and a lot of members are looking for that return on investment. And if you think about you know a lot of your smaller members, your local retailer or maybe a residential realtor or a copier salesman, they’re looking to find customers and they’re going to measure their return on how many customers? And how much revenue Did you directly produce for them? Like I mentioned for a manufacturer or maybe even a bank or a bigger member of your community, and oftentimes the longer member longer time members of your community, those who are the pillars of the community, as it were, they’re not really looking for that so much the return they’re looking for is, how much can they grow their business, because you have helped foster a climate that is positive to them. I would also say, you know, for those smaller members, there is a direct return as well in in North Carolina, a couple years ago, there was a tax issue related to PPP loans, that local Chambers of Commerce got behind and ultimately saved small business in North Carolina $640 million through their advocacy. Now that 640 million was 5000. Here, 5000. There, but that was it made a big difference to a lot of small chamber members. Yeah,
Brandon Burton 10:57
absolutely. And I think there’s a lot of examples through the pandemic, and the PPP loans and things of that nature, where you can really see the advocacy efforts of chambers really being recognized, especially by those businesses that maybe were more transactional, to begin with, and kind of moves them over to the transformational side of things and understanding the bigger picture of what chambers can do. You didn’t necessarily use those that phrase of transactional, the transformational, but are there other ways that you can see where you can take somebody from a transactional relationship to more than transformational in this kind of a advocacy conversation
Brian Francis 11:36
100%. And in fact, one of the things I would say is you need to talk about that value. I’ve seen this with a lot of chambers we work with they they’ll have a tiered do structure, which I 100% support, and I think it is the direction all the chambers need to go and if they don’t have one already, but when you get to those higher tiers, the value that the Chamber often puts on that piece of paper is we will give you a foursome at our golf tournament, or we will give you a table at our annual meeting. And a lot of times, that’s not necessarily what those larger investors are looking for. What they’re really looking for, is we saved your company money by helping navigate this regulation or changing this local zoning regulation, or, you know, we were at the forefront of this tax policy change that is making a difference of 10s or hundreds of 1000s of dollars for your business. So part of it is changing what you talk about and recognizing the and giving credit to those people because of your investment, we were able to do this advocacy. And because we were able to do this advocacy, you saw this return.
Brandon Burton 12:45
Absolutely, yeah. But just the examples he gave there, I can see where some members may say I’m, I’m really just not a golfer like that doesn’t appeal to me, or I really don’t need to go to another meeting, like as much as I appreciate the prime table at the annual meeting, I don’t really care to go, you know, whereas if they can look to the chamber and say, Man, you guys really helped us tackle this big issue of child care, or workforce or whatever it may be, then they can really see where the needle is moving with their business with the involvement with the chamber. So
Brian Francis 13:18
absolutely, I mean, we I think we forget, sometimes sometimes it can be a hassle to have to try to fill a table. And so you’re actually making your members life more difficult on by trying to give them something that they really aren’t looking for. Right?
Brandon Burton 13:32
So great arguments for being involved with advocacy, what from your experience, and just reasonings that you can see why. What holds the chamber back from getting involved with advocacy.
Brian Francis 13:44
I would say the first thing and I hear this all the time is chamber presidents executive directors and their boards say, we don’t want to get involved in politics. And oftentimes that comes from a bad experience that maybe they had years ago where somebody said the chamber is too political. And so we’re dropping our membership. And one of the things that we emphasize to people, we’re not talking about getting involved in politics, we’re talking about getting involved in policy. And here’s the distinction that I make politics is about people and power. Policy is about laws and regulations. And I will put the caveat out there. There are some chambers out there who get involved in politics, they have PACs, they endorse candidates. And I would say that’s kind of at the end, you talked before about a spectrum that’s at the end of the spectrum. If you’ve never done anything in the political realm or the policy realm before, that’s not where you start. Where you start is identifying the issues that matter to your members and working on those issues, regardless of who supports them. So this isn’t, hey, we’re going to support this ordinance because the mayor asked us to it’s we’re going to support this ordinance because we had a rigorous process to identify what is important to our members. And they’ve told us this is an important issue that needs to be corrected in order for their business to grow.
Brandon Burton 15:03
Absolutely. And I would even say even some of the pushback that they might have gotten in the past, I think getting involved with politics rather than policy is an obvious reason why they might hear some of that pushback, but there’s always going to be somebody who’s not happy with something, and they tend to be the loudest, right? So if you’ve got 1000 members, or 400 members, and you hear that one squeaky wheel, you know, that’s not indicative of what everybody else is thinking. So everybody else is cheering you on, even though they may not be coming to your front door to patch on the back.
Brian Francis 15:37
You know, that’s 100% Correct. And I imagine most of your audience are chamber staff, folks. And that’s one of the things that we talk about. When that squeaky wheel starts to squeak, we think it’s very important for your chamber to have a member driven policy process where you have a committee that’s developing the policies, it’s reviewed by your executive committee, it’s approved by your board. So when that squeaky wheel calls up the director and says, Why did you decide this? The director can say, Whoa, I didn’t decide this, this was decided by our members, by the people who participate, who learned about the issue and identified it as being something important for us to be involved
Brandon Burton 16:15
in. Right, right. And I think for all the staff to be able to understand this is how you respond when when there is opposition. I think that’s very important. So I can understand your chambers may not want to get involved with politics. But to think more on the policy side, I think would hopefully generate some interest for chambers to get involved. Are there other reasons that that you can see why chambers hesitate from getting involved with advocacy? Yeah, so
Brian Francis 16:45
I think once chambers make the decision, they want to get involved in policy. The next step is where do I start? And where do I find the time to do it. So a lot of chamber executives don’t have experience in the policy world. They, they literally don’t know where to start. And then also, you run into this all the time, especially with your smaller chambers. You know, there’s 1000, things that they have going on, you need to get your invoices out, you’ve got business after hours, you have to plan annual meetings coming up. The local school system wants to talk about workforce development, where do you find the time to put together a policy program and and I’ll say, that’s really where we step in. Both from our past experience, I’ve been involved in the political and policy arena for more than 25 years, we kind of have the expertise of how the process works. But then also, from the capacity standpoint, we try to make it easy for our clients in either our consulting or our online program by providing email templates, draft agendas, really all the work that needs to be done behind the scenes we do for them, so that they can just go out and execute on on running the policy program. Yeah,
Brandon Burton 18:00
no, I can see where where the expertise and capacity could be, you know, hurdles to overcome. Maybe starting with with expertise, if you don’t feel like you’re equipped to be able to handle this, what are some solutions or ways to overcome it? I think every chamber needs to be involved on some level on that spectrum with advocacy and policy. But how do you overcome that big hurdle of not having, you know, the not being fully equipped, or you may not feel like you’re equipped enough to handle these these topics? Well,
Brian Francis 18:32
I think the first thing is to accept and feel confident that it’s okay that you don’t understand every issue in the middlee. Elected officials don’t lobbyists don’t There are a lot of niche areas. And so the first thing I would do is say, look for your experts. So if there is an issue that a lot of members are talking about health insurance costs, and you have an insurance agent or representative who’s a member of your chamber, go to them to look for information, go to the local hospital system. If broadband is a a coming issue in your community and and investing there, look to the telecom providers that may be involved. So within your membership, you have a lot of expertise. And one thing you can do is look to your members to help educate you on their areas of of expertise. The second thing I would do and this varies a little bit from state to state, but oftentimes the State Chamber of Commerce can be a great resource. We work in South Carolina quite a bit and the South Carolina chamber does a great job every week of putting out a an email and a social media post that has just three things to know. And oftentimes, those are focused on policy issues that are moving through their legislature. And so you can often kind of repurpose that content and share it back out to your members and establish yourself as an expert just by finding the information for your members that they don’t have time to find.
Brandon Burton 19:57
Yeah, and that that helps with The Capacity stand front too, if you’re able to have a trusted source, like a State Chamber who’s doing a lot of the legwork, they have staff members who are facing, you know, the advocacy issues, and being able to put that out, be involved, like tap into that resource, but then repurpose it, then it shows Hey, we’re tapped into knowing what’s in the know, and what’s important to you. And, and all of that, are there other ways as far as tapping into the capacity issue, that time issue for chambers with getting involved? Or is that the the main thing you’d go to?
Brian Francis 20:34
So I think those are definitely helps. You know, I would say, if you have volunteers who have capacity, this is a great way to plug them in. One of my favorite tricks, so to speak, is to find a former chair of your board, who still wants to be involved. A lot of times, you know, these chairs kind of they they have their chairmanship year, they’ll have their immediate past chair year, and they still want to be involved with the chamber, they’re not sure what to do next. And so getting them involved in chairing a policy committee, you’re drawing on somebody who has a lot of experience and a lot of leadership within your your organization. And so you can rely on them. You know, and I’d say, your drawl from other Chambers of Commerce. You know, a lot of that one of the important things to get started is developing a legislative agenda. And Chambers of Commerce typically will put those on to their websites. So go around to other communities that are of like size to yours in the state are maybe even a little bit bigger, maybe more involved with it and see what they’re talking about. And use that as a jumping off point.
Brandon Burton 21:39
I love that. It’s it’s always good to collaborate good ideas from other chambers. And and the the idea of using a past chair, I think is is crucial, because they’re intimately involved with the the goings on with the chamber. They understand the mission and vision they’ve been highly involved. And to be able to keep them involved in a meaningful way, I think is a great way to utilize a past chair, that’s a great idea.
Brian Francis 22:03
Well, the other thing I would say to with working with other chambers in advocacy, coalition building is really important. And so sometimes people are like, Why do you still want to take what somebody else did, and I can make some arguments, you shouldn’t just do that, because you want your members invested in your policy positions. So I always say use them as ideas, rather than just taking something old cloth from somebody else. But once you say, hey, childcare, and ensuring that we have more childcare workers is an important issue to us, and we want to work on it, you can leverage the other chambers who have said the same thing to work together. And not everybody has to be the leader and carry all the water on each issue. Sometimes simply saying me to our chamber to supports this can really help move something forward. And the other people who have already identified that issue will be happy to have you working with them, and won’t really see it as you’re taking something from them, but rather, you’re adding something to their efforts.
Brandon Burton 23:02
Right. And I think as far as coalition’s go, especially with a regional focus, if you’ve got the chambers within your county or a Tri County area where you’re facing a lot of the similar issues together, it’s one thing from a chamber from another state, there’s still value that can be found there for sure. But you definitely wouldn’t want to copy paste, you know what they’re doing. And then South Carolina if you’re in Tennessee, for example. But if you’ve got other chambers in your county, that you can collaborate together and really build something that’s efficient and meaningful for your members. I agree.
Brian Francis 23:36
And particularly because we’ve really tried to focus our clients on working at the state level, what we have said is at the federal level, it’s just so big. And the process, especially these days is so unwieldy. It’s hard to have influence. And at the local level, a lot of stuff just happens kind of ad hoc, you know, you run into the mayor, and you talk about an issue and it gets resolved. But the state process, it’s it is more of a process. There’s a timeline that needs to be involved. There’s, there’s a lot more work, that move happens to move something through. But chambers really can have a lot of influence. You’re seeing your state reps, hopefully, you’re seeing your state senators, they’re calling on you for advice, and it’s a place where you can really have an impact. Right?
Brandon Burton 24:18
Absolutely, you can make that impact. And I’d like to argue that maybe it does make an impact on the federal level if enough states are doing it and the broader level can see what’s important. But Brian, as we start to wrap things up here, I wanted to ask for the chamber listening who’s interested in taking their chamber up to the next level? What tip or strategy might you offer to them to try to accomplish that goal?
Brian Francis 24:43
So the first thing I would say is have a conversation with your board. You know, this is really I’ve started by saying needs to be a member driven process and that starts with your leader members who are on your board of directors. Talk to them about why you You think advocacy is important, we have on our website or by contacting me, I can send to you a PowerPoint draft presentation that you can literally drop your Chamber’s name into. And it kind of walks through how to have that conversation, a lot of what we talked about today about how to talk to them about being involved in policy, not politics. What you need to do to get started with kind of the steps are that you’ll go through the process, but the very first thing you need to do is have buy in from your board, because this is not an easy thing to do. If it is staff driven, you really need to have that volunteer leadership on board.
Brandon Burton 25:34
Absolutely. So I like asking this question to everyone that I have on the podcast, as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?
Brian Francis 25:48
So the first thing I would say, obviously, we know we’re a much more global economy. So the the hometown member to member transactions become less and less prevalent, it’s easy to find a website provider who’s across the country across the world. And so I think there is a need for chambers to evolve, and to continue to provide that value. But I would also say, when you look at the political world these days, I would say that we are oftentimes dominated by extreme conversations or folks who are more at the the ideological fringe. And I think there is a need for a common sense, bro business policy advocate in just about every community. And it’s if the chamber is not doing it, we always say if the chamber is not the voice for business, then business has no voice in the community. And so I really think the futures of chambers, if they are going to continue to be relevant, they have to be involved in providing that voice to say, regardless of all the stuff that people are talking about, that elected officials are talking about, here are the things that we really need to do to invest in our community, to invest in our workforce and to promote our businesses so that our economy can continue to thrive.
Brandon Burton 27:07
Right. And I think you hit on the political fringes, I think so much of that we see on the national level, right? Watch news channels and things like that, where you get in the local levels, you get into local policy and and even state policy. And you don’t see quite as you know, dramatic ends of the you know, the those political fringes that the opposite ends of the spectrum, there’s a lot more in the middle. And there’s a lot more that chambers can can stand on as being that same center and being able to bring people together, that I think that that vision you have of chambers, the future, I think is spot on. So thank you for sharing that. I wanted to give you an opportunity, Brian to share any contact information for listeners who may want to reach out and connect with you or ask for the PowerPoint that you mentioned, to be able to have these conversations at their board, what would be the best way for listener to reach out and connect with you?
Brian Francis 28:04
Well, I’d say there’s two great ways. First of all, you can always email me is bfrancis@luminstrat.com, that’s L u m, I n s t r a t, or connect with me on LinkedIn on Brian Francis, from North Carolina, Davidson College, that should give you enough to find me, we try to put out a lot of content that is helpful for chambers of commerce through the LinkedIn. And so that would be a great place as well. That’s
Brandon Burton 28:32
perfect. And we’ll get that in the show notes as well make it easy to find and, and I would encourage everyone to reach out to Brian and ask for that PowerPoint to be able to start these conversations with your board. They will to get ideas of where on that spectrum you want to jump in at and getting involved with policy and advocacy at your chamber. And, and maybe you’re already involved. But let’s see, you know, how can you continue moving that needle. But, Brian, it’s been great having you with us today. I appreciate you taking some time to deal with us here on Chamber Chat Podcast. And I think you’ve pulled back the curtain on a lot of important topics and around policy and chambers getting involved and overcoming you know some of the hurdles that they might see as hurdles, but to see that it is possible to move, move past and move through those obstacles to really get involved in a meaningful way. So I appreciate you being on here and sharing your expertise with us. Well,
Brian Francis 29:29
thank you for having me, Brandon. Maybe I can come back and talk about Thompson sometime.
Brandon Burton 29:33
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