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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.
Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your hosts Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.
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Today’s topic explores an often overlooked lens. It’s the psychology and science behind events. Emotion. It’s more than just a feeling. It drives action. In this conversation, we’ll reflect on the emotion and memory, how emotion and memory work together to shape the event, experience that truly sticks. We’ll touch on the softer side, this isn’t about sentimentality. It’s about using psychology and science to design chamber events that leave a lasting impression. Our guest for this episode, to help us cover this topic is Cally D’Angelo. Cally is founder and principal of Collective Cdge LLC. And prior to evolving into an entrepreneur, she spent nearly 20 years in the nonprofit organization management industry, working directly for chambers of commerce, a change agent influenced by innovation, she has launched initiatives from solopreneur to C suite that have enhanced engagement and increased revenue by more than 500% she’s a seasoned executive, skilled in professional development, sales and service member recruitment and retention, Benefits and onboarding, coaching and consulting international travel and volunteer engagement. Cally is driven by impact, and being a business owner enables her to pursue passion projects while utilizing her expertise. Her chamber roots run deep long before launching her own business, and just as strongly after deeply engaged in the chamber industry, she has served as the chair of events division board and ambassador for ACCE. She also is a past member of the Georgia chambers diversity and inclusion Council, a proud graduate of the US chambers Institute for organization management. She’s contributed as class advisor Board of Regent and faculty. She was nationally recognized in ACCE’s 40, under 40, and as a business owner, she continues to serve and support chambers across the country, frequently tapped as a speaker and instructor for state and national associations, including the Florida Association of chamber professionals, Indiana chamber executive Association and Tennessee chamber of commerce, industry and more. But Cally, we are excited to have you with us today here on Chamber Chat Podcast. I’d love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the Chamber Champions who are out there listening, and often I’ll ask for a unique or interesting fact about you, but today I want to ask you about an experience, whether big or small, that’s helped shape how you show up professionally,
Cally D’Angelo 3:48
Awesome. Thank you so much Brandon for having me. I’m very excited to be featured on today’s Chamber Chat Podcast. And hello chamber champions. If I have not had the opportunity to meet you, I hope that you find this session today valuable, and if there’s anything I can do for you, please feel free to reach out. Look forward to spending some time with everyone today to answer Brandon’s question. You know, I don’t know that I’m super interesting. So we pivoted from that slightly, because I always struggle with telling me something interesting about you, and I don’t find myself very interesting. Frank,
Brandon Burton 4:23
nobody does, but everybody else finds you interesting. So
Cally D’Angelo 4:28
that’s to be determined. We’ll see after the session today, right? But, but I think back on my chamber career, you know, one experience, big or small, that’s, you know, shaped how I show up professionally. There really has been a common theme of women supporting women. When I first started as an intern at the Statesboro chamber and then an executive assistant, it was ran by a full women team, and they really took me under their wing and helped develop me professionally, because I was super young in the space, right? So that was very helpful. You know, their guidance. And then when I went to the Tourism Council on Toby Island, I had a great group of women that got me plugged in. Then I got another opportunity from a professional woman that connected me with the savannah chamber. And then when I was with the Gwinnett chamber, I first was in their programs department, where I learned a lot about executive presence and leadership from Alicia Crow, who is still their SVP of programs and executive engagement. And the organization is also ran by Nick Massino, the president CEO, who is a champion for advancing women in the workplace. And then during my time at the Gwinnett chamber, you know, I was fortunate to be surrounded by female board members and leading ladies who are always so supportive. You know, I started in the chamber industry so young, and a comment, though throughout my career, has been encouraged and supported by women professionals. They instill both knowledge and confidence in me, and their kindness and insights are still things that I carry with me today.
Brandon Burton 5:59
That’s awesome. Yeah, you must have started young. I mean, to be in it nearly 20 years, you probably started when you’re like, nine, right? Well, tell us about collective edge. I think it’ll help to kind of set the stage for our conversation today about what it is that you do and who you serve. Okay,
Cally D’Angelo 6:21
awesome. Thank you. Brandon, so collective edge. We connect to collaboration and creativity and provide innovative approaches that advance organizations. We specifically serve chambers of commerce, associations and nonprofit organizations nationally. So what does that mean? Exactly, here are just some, you know, top four examples. So employee engagement, we empower your internal employees with custom coaching, cultivating a culture where passion, purpose and performance propel progress. We also delve into initiative implementation. This is probably the one that I get the most excited about, because I enjoy getting in the weeds with our chambers of commerce and helping them identify issues and advance initiatives that will combat those issues. So what we do is we essentially blend both consulting and contract work, because what we notice is there’s a gap in the space, bandwidth and capacity is always, you know, an issue for chambers and nonprofits in general. So if a consultant comes in the likeliness of whatever they’re consulting on being implemented or developed and implemented, you know, usually it doesn’t get off the ground 100% so that’s what we do. We blend both of those things. So we’ll help consult you, identify the issue, and then we’ll also do the development implementation of whatever the initiative is. Working in tandem with your team, we also provide staffing support, so we offer on demand services and seamlessly step in to expand your team’s capacity exactly when and where it matters most. So think about it. Let’s say you have your events lead, and perhaps she’s gone on maternity leave, and you have a whole, full season of events, right? And you can always that’s when it would happen, right? And you can’t absorb them staff wise, or maybe you shouldn’t, because you might have other people leave because they’re beyond capacity already, we can seamlessly step in and kind of pick up the ball during those transitionary times. So whether it be you know, more of kind of an events director role or an interim president and CEO, we can help you handle those transitions, especially when you’re hiring, so you can make sure you hire right, not just try to hire quick, okay? We also do organizational audits and assessments through systems and structures and develop the foundational framework that fosters alignment and activates action for your organization.
Brandon Burton 8:47
Very good. That’s a you said the top four, but it’s the kind of full scope of what you do. I know you can go much more granular on it, but it does help give us perspective from kind of where you’re coming from, between your bio and the background on what collective edge does to really set the stage for our conversation today. So I mentioned, kind of, in the intro that today we’re talking about the psychology and science behind events, and we’re going to dive in deep on this. I know you’ve done a lot of research on it. I’m excited to learn what you found out as soon as they get back from this quick break.
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All right, Cally, we’re back, as I mentioned before the break, our topic today is the psychology and science behind events. So this is a very unique lens. Obviously, chambers of all sizes are doing events all the time, but to really hone in on the psychology and science behind it, and really giving purpose to the events is what intrigues me with this. But what sparked your interest in exploring this topic? Yeah,
Cally D’Angelo 13:04
so Brandon, you know, I was approached by ACCE in 2023 to present at their events and marketing conference, and they asked that I speak to event experience. So I kind of went down a rabbit hole, because I didn’t want to talk about florals and tablecloths, although that is a part of event experience, right? But, you know, I’m like, What does really dictate event experience, and that’s memory making. So then that sent me down another rabbit hole of, how do you create memorable event experiences? So, you know, I’m a bit of a nerd. I love data and research, so I began connecting the dots and uncovering synergies between science and psychology and events, and no one had done a white paper or a TED talk on this. So here we are,
Brandon Burton 13:51
created your own TED Talk. So here it is, rolling it out. So why? Why does the overall event experience matters so much for chambers.
Cally D’Angelo 14:05
Yeah, I always like to start with, why is this even important to help people relate it and understand how and why they should implement these tactics, or, if not specifically, these tactics, at least think intentionally about your events. And the event experience matters so much for chambers, for a few reasons. For one, you know, I think we all know that events are the number one sided benefit of membership with your chamber, so it can be used as a strategic recruitment tool, right? Also, I like to say engagement equals retention. So you can get members plugged in, specifically through events in a variety of ways, and that increase, increase, I’m sorry, increases can’t talk here the likeliness of your member staying engaged and you retaining them also through revenue generation. So you can utilize events as a tool to generate revenue through your specific event. Budget, but also looking through the lens, through recruitment and retention. So even if an event doesn’t highly produce financially within its event scope, if it engages new members, it expands your reach and it helps you, you know, engage a number and variety of members across your membership base, then it’s increasing your membership revenue through recruitment and retention as well. And then lastly, to influence initiatives. You know, when you think back on important moments, whether that be in life or through your chamber, you know a lot of those are activated through gatherings and events, right? So you can use events as a tool to influence initiatives. So a couple of examples of that are, if you’re involved in public policy, then maybe you need to pass some sort of vote. Maybe it’s an education referendum or a splash vote, or transportation you can use events as a tool to do that and activate your community towards those goals. You can also bring the community together to champion and solve a common issue or cause. You can even use events to advance, you know, exposure for small businesses at the end of the day, it depends on what the strategy is for your organization and your chamber specifically, but you definitely can use events as a tool to accomplish your goals
Brandon Burton 16:16
Absolutely. And I can see, I really like how you said engagement equals retention. It leads to retention. And as you’re able to engage and make these events memorable, it kind of eliminates that question of, what does the chamber do? You know, good when they go to write the check next time that retention stays high, because they have these memories, these feelings, of what the chamber did for them. So just a side note of my own perspective of what I’ve seen. But as far as perspectives go, from the attendees perspective, what makes an event truly memorable, and why is that important to have a memorable event?
Cally D’Angelo 16:58
Well, you definitely want to have a memorable event, because memory leads to action and and we all have, you know, different types of action we want our prospective members or members to take, and we kind of unpack that further along. But, you know, I did a social media poll and posed the question, what makes an event memorable to you? Didn’t include any contacts, just general statement out there, and got a lot of responses back, but really the top kind of three were bucketed, and they were all centered around kind of connection and feeling. So the top one was connection, which is a feeling, and they said connection to the event and the people at the event, so that’s what makes it memorable to them, right? So how are you getting the right people in the room. How are you facilitating those connections? Are you doing social engineering when you do your seating assignments and being thoughtful about that, such as connection at the event? The second one was how the event made them feel, and we’ll unpack that further along, about how you can help members feel a specific way through event elements, and then also just tactical elements, you know, the experience? Is it well lit? Can they find parking? You know, all those good kind of logistical types of things that’s very important as well. And you know, I would say, even if it’s an object, right, everything speaks and everything has the ability to influence your event experience?
Brandon Burton 18:22
Yeah, I feel like the creating a memorable event really leverages what you’re doing as a chamber too. So you’re not oftentimes, we will rinse and repeat events over time. But if you’re able to create an event that your members attend and they remember, man, you’re getting a whole lot more leverage out of that one experience. So it’s worth putting in the extra attention from from what I can gather. Can you walk us through the concept of emotional memory and how it relates to events? Yeah, sure.
Cally D’Angelo 18:55
So let’s start connecting the dots here. I know everyone’s heard of flight or fight instinct, right? That is how far emotional memory goes back. So the activity of emotionally enhanced memory retention can be linked to human evolution. So during early development, responsive behavior to environmental events would have progressed as a process of trial and error and survival depended on it at that time. And then numerous studies have shown that the most vivid memories are of emotional events or occurrences which are likely to be recalled more and with more clarity than just neutral events.
Brandon Burton 19:34
Okay, so as we make the connection, how does it the impact of memory affect retention from from the event.
Cally D’Angelo 19:45
Yeah. So findings show that emotions play a role at various specific stages of remembering, and those stages are encoding, consolidating and recall. So the first stage of encoding refers to the process of interpret. Incoming stimuli, and combining the processed information so emotionally arousing stimuli results in enhanced memory. So in this context, dimensions of arousal range from soothing to exciting or agitating. So both positive and negative experiences can be formed into your memory bank from your chamber events
Brandon Burton 20:21
for sure. Yeah, people remember how that chicken was right?
Cally D’Angelo 20:26
The chamber chicken, it’s so funny. You mentioned that because I actually have a sticker that I give out as swag that says I love chamber chicken to chicken professionals, because if you know, you know that’s right, but yeah, you’re absolutely right. I mean, you want people to have a good experience, but if they have a bad experience, they remember that too. So it’s very important you know that people aren’t frustrated by the time they find you that if you have award recipients that are announced, that you’re taking the time to make sure you write out the phonetics of the pronunciations of the name on stage, right? Let’s say someone brings their whole family because they’re up for an award, and then you butcher their last name, so that’s not a good memory to store, okay, so we have to be intentional on the front end to create these positive experiences. So yeah, and then after encoding, we dive into emotional arousal. Increases the likelihood of memory consolidation during the retention and storage stage of memory, which is the process of creating the actual permit record of the encoded information. Okay? And then your third stage is recall, which is the process of being able to retrieve that information from your memory bank. And as we know from what we’ve covered so far, recall is dictated by your emotional state. So if you can increase and provide a positive experience at your events, then people are going to recall that feeling and that experience more.
Brandon Burton 21:50
Yeah, I have definitely seen that now, when we speak to the word emotion, people might assume that, in a professional sense, that there’s that emotion doesn’t really have a place. But from what I understand, it’s not just about being emotional, right? There’s a difference between emotion and emotional. But can you share some types of emotion that chambers might want to intentionally evoke through their events? Yeah,
Cally D’Angelo 22:17
absolutely. And you’re you’re correct about that Brandon. You know, I think people, when you hear the word emotional, or someone is labeled as emotional, there’s a negative connotation with that, right?
Brandon Burton 22:27
Makes me think of a league of their own where he’s like, there’s no crying in baseball, right? Yes,
Cally D’Angelo 22:32
but I want you to cry at my events. But I do want you to be moved, okay, depending on what the event is. So it’s not just about crying. You know you want people to feel embraced or welcome. That’s a feeling, right? You want your chamber feel like a place of belonging for the business community. You know you may want your members to feel excited, because you want them champion your membership campaign and sell some memberships on your behalf. You know there are situations where you may want your members to feel contemplative, you know, and considering the impact of an issue that you are discussing. You know you might want to ignite support around a cause, and you would want your event attendees to feel motivated you. You know you may be having an award ceremony, and you want your members and your event attendees to feel seen. So I would say, you know, at the bottom of this, I would just try to understand what the goal of your event is, and what emotions you can tap into to advance whatever that goal is for your event.
Brandon Burton 23:33
Yeah, so let’s, let’s talk about the tactics. What are the practical ways to evoke emotion during an event. So
Cally D’Angelo 23:41
I would just think through your pre event, your during event, and your post event, so all the actions that you are doing at all of those stages, okay, you know, pre event, when you’re promoting it, you can tap into emotion just simply through the language that you’re choosing for your events promotional copy. You know, we are a chamber, but we don’t have to be so buttoned up. And there’s a way, if you have a strong event Brandon, if you have a strong chamber brand, that you can be a little bit more intentional in the copy that you’re creating, in the language in which you’re using to promote your events, you can, you know, implement some emotion through video content and who you’re interviewing and the questions that you’re asking them and how you’re staging that you can, you know, evoke emotion through thoughtful speaker selection. Okay, so someone that is telling a story through the photos that you use to promote your event, you know they don’t have to be clip artist or super buttoned up, they could be more relatable to whoever you’re trying to reach right more interactive, smiling networking you can use, you know, you can evoke emotion through your walk up music at your award ceremony. You know, it doesn’t all have to be the same kind of walk up music with no work. You can, you know, be specific and tailor the walk up music based on the award that you’re giving. So like, for example, if it’s an entrepreneurial award, you know, maybe it’s a I will survive song, you can be specific about and intentional about how you’re doing this. And then through lighting, you know, some of those theatrical elements. So, like, if you have an award ceremony, we’ll go back to that example you have, you know, your walk up music and the lights are kind of going in tandem with your walk up music, right? So it’s just kind of that build up and that experience that you’re giving someone. And then lastly, through storytelling. I mean, there’s a mile long list that we could go through, but I would just say the things that you’re doing already just be more intentional about it, right?
Brandon Burton 25:48
Yeah, absolutely. And when I think of these practical ways, just one small example, I had done a presentation at a chamber conference, and I wanted the attendees to feel welcome. So I got to the room. It was a breakout session, so I got to the room well before anybody else did, but I made sure I was saying hello and introducing myself to everybody that came in the room, and then by the time the presentation started, they all felt welcome. It kind of broke the ice, and it got engagement going a lot quicker. So there are a lot of ways to evoke that emotion, but that’s just an example that I’ve used. But I know storytelling, you mentioned, storytelling can be such a powerful tool for chambers, but why? Why is storytelling so powerful to use in an event setting?
Cally D’Angelo 26:40
Yeah, so when we listen to a good story that is rich in detail and full of metaphor and expressive, we tend to imagine ourselves in that same situation, right? So when I started with the question of kind of we asked of what has been most impactful, or what have I carried with me on my professional journey. I mean, that’s a good example of storytelling, so I’m sure that there are other professionals that can kind of relate to that. Hopefully they’ll remember that and also implement it as well as we, you know, we’re looking to embrace the next generation of female leaders. But that’s just an example. You know, on average and emotion only lasts about 90 seconds. It’s not the emotion that lingers, but the story that you attach to it in your mind. Okay, we keep feeding, you know, these memories, our thoughts, these stories, and we were playing them in our minds, and reinforce that feeling. So that’s one of the reasons why storytelling is so impactful, because we can imagine ourselves in someone else’s shoes. We can relate.
Brandon Burton 27:41
Yeah, so I know you’ve studied the topic, but can you break down for us the science behind storytelling? You kind of alluded to it with, you know, put putting their emotion into that story as they try to picture themselves in that story. But what’s the science behind it?
Cally D’Angelo 27:58
Yes, I basically had to become a scientist to uncover this, just so y’all know, totally kidding, but you know, scientists are discovering that chemicals like cortisol, dopamine and oxytocin are released in the brain when we’re told a story. So those are kind of the chemicals and mechanics behind it. So for example, if you’re trying to make a point stick, cortisol assists with formulating of memories and dopamine, which helps regulate our emotional responses, helps keep us engaged, and then when it comes to creating deeper connections with others, oxytocin is associated with infinite empathy, which is an important element in building and maintaining good relationships. So those are just some of the chemicals that are activated in our minds when we are listening to a story?
Brandon Burton 28:44
Yeah? So I’m trying to see, in a practical sense, at an event, how can a chamber incorporate storytelling into their events?
Cally D’Angelo 28:53
Yeah? So there’s a variety of different ways, but let’s say, let’s go back to the Small Business Award Ceremony example. Because you know, most chambers, about 90% of their members are small businesses with 50 employees or less. So I feel like this example will kind of resonate with the masses. But let’s say you’re hosting an award ceremony for a small business, for small businesses, and you can actually promote a small business success story via a video interview to tee up and promote on the front end your award ceremony. You can also host a fireside chat. So your event format can help through storytelling, where it literally the focus of the event is hearing someone’s story. So maybe it’s someone’s entrepreneurial journey that’s always impactful, yeah. So for the chamber itself, you can also tell your story as well through your events. At the end of the day, it should be driven by your strategic plan and your communications plan, and then interwoven into all your chamber elements such as events, but chambers can really humanize their mission, elevate their members and create emotionally engaging events that drive deeper connection. Time through storytelling. So let’s say we talked about, you know, the stats surrounding 90% of Chamber members having 50 employees or less. You can tie in the support of your small businesses and to your events, if that’s something that you’re championing through your strategic plan, through your MC remarks, through highlighting members entrepreneurial journeys. If you’re able, let’s say you’ve got a grant for a small business through some connection at the Chamber, then you could not, you know, let’s not just self promote the chamber for doing that, but you can do a story on what that will mean for that small business. Okay, just really kind of connecting those dots and storing those emotional responses. You can do things like a why I joined, or why I stayed campaign so utilizing your members to tell the chamber story for you. You can also do this through like legacy moments, so like milestone anniversary highlights. You could do this through a social media campaign where you talk about my chamber, my story on social. And you can also do future focused storytelling. I know a lot of us have state of events, right? State of the County, state of the city, state of space. So this is, you know, those are really updates on where we are, but where we’re going as well. So you can use those as a tool for future focused storytelling as well.
Brandon Burton 31:21
That makes a lot of sense. There’s no, no limit to when and how to incorporate stories into events, and I would even say regular communications through different channels like podcasts and YouTube and your newsletters, and, you know, all the different things. But before we wrap up, I wanted to ask you for maybe a tip or an action item that a chamber professional can take today to elevate their next event.
Cally D’Angelo 31:49
Yes. So if anyone’s heard me speak before, it really always comes down to be intentional. That’s typically my top takeaway. So I would ask you, what kind of story do you want your chamber to tell? What do you want to be known for? What is your chambers legacy? And then, how can you leverage events as a platform to tell that story? So I would say, intentionality and cohesion across your organization and make sure everyone is working towards a common goal, so we’re not siloed in events and siloed in membership, right? Yeah, really operating off of that strategic plan and who you want your chamber to be, and then, you know, evoking emotion through events, through storytelling, and all the different elements we discussed today.
Brandon Burton 32:36
Yeah, it’s important to have all the staff to have the same vision, so they’re all telling the same story, right? Sounds bad. It sounds bad to say, you know, get all of our stories aligned, because that’s usually, you know, Incorporated to, like, making up a story, but, you know, getting in line with, here’s what our vision is, and getting all the staff on board with, yes, this is a vision, and everything we do helps support that story. I think is, is a great piece of advice. So I always like asking guests on the podcast how they see the future of chambers going forward, but I wanted to specifically ask you about how do you see the future of chambers evolving, and what role will events play in that?
Cally D’Angelo 33:18
Yeah. So you know, I think we all wish we had a crystal ball. But what I will say is I see, in my opinion Chambers as continuing to evolve as and serve as a catalyst for their communities. But I think that, you know, we’re going to have to probably be more intentional or specific on kind of the causes we champion and the things that we support and how we do that, I think, also too, you know, we’re going to continue to be that trusted resource in the future, but we also need to modify our approach and our communications to reach the younger professionals. You know, currently, right now, millennials are the largest segment of our workforce, and they hold the largest spending power and the United States right? So as a chamber, we have to continue to evolve and modify our approach so we can be a chamber of the future. Not to sound campy, but we do have to have some intentionality, you know, behind that, as far as how we can use events to, you know, expand upon that. I mean, you can use events as as a tool to reach and support, you know, the younger professionals market. You can be specific and how you’re creating these events. You can, you know, create events surrounding whatever your objective is and whatever action you want to implement within your community. You know, I know sometimes there’s talk around how I say this, don’t be a parade chamber, or a negative connotation with events, don’t just be an events mill organization, right? But I think that might come from a lens of not understanding that specific chambers. Different communities. They’re not all the same. It’s not a one size fits all. And events are a, you know, strategic tool to advance whatever your objectives are. And for you know, some of our smaller chambers, some of their strategic plans may be community engagement. So parade would be fitting. So I would just say, as we hear, you know people speak to things in different events and so forth. They very much are still important. Are and are going to be the way that you engage your community, that you recruit, retain your members. So keep up the good fight with your events.
Brandon Burton 35:35
I love what you said about events being a strategic tool to advance your objectives. I think a lot of chambers, you know, leaders staff, they come into a chamber and there’s already a menu of events that they’ve been doing for a long time, you know, the 50th annual whatever, whatever you know. And they kind of get into this trap of doing events for the sake of doing the event, instead of identifying the how are we, how are we being strategic, and how is this event helping to further advance our objectives? And when it comes becomes more about just we have to do XYZ event because, you know, it’s that time of year. Well, is that really the purpose behind it? So I love that. I’m glad you really glad that you pointed that out. So you mentioned in your in your introduction, and about collective edge, kind of what you do, but do you also speak and instruct with chambers and associations? I know you do with you know, from what we shared in your bio, but in what ways are you available to support chambers, and what would be the best way for them to reach out and connect with you if they were to try to bring you on board to help their their chamber with any of the things that you’ve talked about?
Cally D’Angelo 36:56
Yeah, thanks, Brandon for that tee up. Yes, I do regularly speak or instruct at different chamber conferences, whether that’s you know, nationally or statewide, or I can even you know, come speak to your members for your chamber. So recently, did something on innovation, and was actually presenting to the chambers Chamber members. So we can do that a variety of different ways. I like to say, I take a tactical approach, so you kind of walk away with, you know, some applicable things that you can implement, and not kind of super high level. So that’s the approach. So if that would be helpful to anybody you know, certainly reach out. You know, I started this organization to expand my impact and making a difference, I know a lot of that will resonate with our audience, because chamber professionals typically are purpose driven and mission minded. So if I can help you advance your mission, whether that be through coaching or teaching, please keep me in mind and you can get in touch with me in a variety of ways. My email is super long, but it is cally@collectiveedgeagency.com my website is collectiveedgeagency.com and then my cell phone feel free to call or text. Is 912-412-5109,
Brandon Burton 38:22
that that’s perfect, and we will get that in our show notes to make it nice and easy for people to find. But I know Cally, you speak and present on a variety of different topics, so not everything is all about psychology and science behind events, but I think this is one of those topics that kind of bleeds over into so many things that chambers are involved with and and I’d argue even that you’re involved with to be able to make sure that the experience for your clients is something that’s memorable, that’ll evoke that emotion and stay with them for a long time. So I appreciate you spending time with us today, here on chamber chat podcast and and really digging into the science and psychology behind events. This is fantastic. I appreciate
Cally D’Angelo 39:07
it. Yeah, it’s been my pleasure. Thank you so much for having
Brandon Burton 39:12
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