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Benefits of IOM Program with Karyn MacRae

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Brandon Burton (00:00.886)
Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat podcast. I’m your host, Brandon Burton. And here on the podcast, I introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community. Our guest for this episode is Karyn MacRae. Karyn is the Senior Director of Institute for Organization Management at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce’s Professional Development Program for Associations, Chamber, and other nonprofit executives.

Since 1921, Institute has educated leaders from across the country, making it one of the oldest and best regarded adult education programs in nonprofit management. Karyn is responsible for setting the strategic direction and vision of Institute in addition to managing the day-to-day operations of the program. She serves as a liaison to the Institute volunteer groups, the National Board of Trustees, four boards of regent and class advisors,

and also works on program logistics, including contract management. She is a graduate of James Madison University. And in addition to her IOM recognition, holds the Certified Association Executive and Certified Meeting Professional credentials. But Karyn, I am excited to have you with us today here on Chamber Chat.

podcast. So I’ll have to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the Chamber Champions who are out there listening and to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better.

Karyn MacRae (01:32.904)
Great. Thank you, Brandon. And thank you for the opportunity to be here on the Chamber Chat podcast. I’m very excited and hello to all of the Chamber Champions. Something interesting about myself is that I love to dance. I grew up dancing when I was younger. I actually went into college as a dance minor. I ended up dropping it, but I love everything about it.

Brandon Burton (01:55.502)
Thank you.

Karyn MacRae (01:58.526)
a couple of years ago started taking adult dance classes at the same studio where my daughters take classes too. So, love to dance.

Brandon Burton (02:03.47)
Thanks

Brandon Burton (02:07.502)
Very cool. And I hate dancing, so I’m glad there’s something out there for everybody, right? That’s great. So I like when I have a guest on, usually I have them share a little bit about their chamber, their organization, but why don’t you just from a high level, tell us about the IOM program, about Institute.

Karyn MacRae (02:11.783)
Yep.

Brandon Burton (02:34.766)
I know a lot of people find this podcast when they’re brand new to the chamber industry, and maybe it’d be helpful to kind of help set the stage with what the Institute program is before we dive into our discussion today.

Karyn MacRae (02:47.23)
Sure, absolutely. So the Institute program or as you mentioned in my introduction Institute for Organization Management is its full name. It is a professional development program of the US Chamber of Commerce. So we are located in Washington DC while the US Chamber has a staff of about 500 on the Institute team. We actually have five of us. So a small but mighty group and we are about a million dollar shop on the

Brandon Burton (03:01.032)
Thank you.

Karyn MacRae (03:17.224)
Institute side. And the program itself is for chamber professionals as well as associations and nonprofits. I recognize all the chamber champions listeners of your podcast are on the chamber side, but we do have the opportunity for associations and general nonprofits to join us well. And the program teaches anything and everything that a chamber professional would need to know, would want to know about how to better run their

Brandon Burton (03:28.601)
That’s right.

Karyn MacRae (03:47.099)
organization. So there are classes on leadership and finance and management and non-due’s revenue and all the different areas that you can think about. It is a four

year program or excuse me, it is a four week program. We are actually in the process of reframing our language. So I’m still getting used to it, but it is a four week program that takes place at four different locations throughout the year. A unique element is that they all take place on college campuses. So from the get go, you are in that learner mindset. It’s not like your typical conference where you’re in and out of a hotel ballroom. You are actually in

Brandon Burton (04:10.849)
Okay.

Karyn MacRae (04:31.794)
the classroom on a college campus. So it takes you back for sure at the end of the four weeks.

Attendees will have completed 96 credit hours of continuing education and they will earn the IOM recognition. So it is a commitment, that’s for sure, but in a nutshell, it is professional development and an opportunity to network and to build your relationships with other chamber professionals from across the country.

Brandon Burton (04:49.646)
I have always been a little bit of good-natured person, but I think that’s the only thing that’s important.

Brandon Burton (05:07.726)
That’s a great high level introduction. And today we’ll be diving in more in depth about the benefits of attending Institute. And for those, depending on the organization they’re coming from, even looking at some creative ways to be able to help get you there. So we’ll dive in deeper on that as soon as we get back from this quick break.

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All right, Karyn, we’re back. So as I mentioned before the break, we’re diving into the benefits of attending the Institute.

program and you give a great breakdown of what what institute is and and being a four-week program so still for clarification still spread out over four years though is that right so still go with it so you can’t stack and do four weeks in a row and be done.

Karyn MacRae (05:37.779)
Mm-hmm.

Karyn MacRae (05:50.431)
Yes, yes, so it is offered four times a year. So essentially you could go to all four in one calendar year. That is a lofty way to do it. However, there is no wrong way to institute.

Brandon Burton (06:06.51)
Very good. So I just diving in, I mean, one of the maybe more obvious things that I see as far as a benefit from Institute is the relationships that come out of it, you know, with classmates and facilitators and, it really helps professionals develop their tribe, their people that they can lean on, that they can, you know, bounce ideas off of because they kind of go through somewhat of a fire together.

as they work on these programs and projects together. But from your perspective, as you guys organize and facilitate the program, how do you see the value points and what do you guys target, I guess, to be the value and the outcome for those that attend?

Karyn MacRae (06:56.732)
Yeah, absolutely. And you hit the nail on the head, Brandon. The networking and the relationship building is a huge benefit that people get from attending the Institute. We hear from our graduates, our current students, that the opportunities that they get at both the professional and personal level are really second to none. So people graduate, you have this cohort that you can go through the program with. We try to keep the classes a little bit

smaller. There have been some larger classes in the 50s, I would say, if you get a good crop of first-year attendees, people coming for the first time, which we love. But it’s about 50 or so people or less per class. So we try to keep it small enough that you feel like you can not only have an opportunity to ask questions, to share your ideas and feedback, but that it’s really a safe space. We want people to

Brandon Burton (07:36.888)
next time.

Brandon Burton (07:50.965)
you

Karyn MacRae (07:56.539)
be able to have those difficult conversations because like you said, people are going through, you know, putting out fires together. So really having that opportunity to have a safe place and a trusted network of peers to be able to talk freely is a really, really big benefit. I mentioned it earlier that there’s no way, wrong way, excuse me, to institute. So you can choose to go through the program.

by picking the same site and going once per calendar year. So in that case, you would be going over the course of four years. There is an opportunity to attend multiple sites in a given year. That’s what we call fast tracking. And we have seen a higher percentage of people do that since coming back from COVID, honestly. And there are benefits to doing both. One of the benefits of sticking with your same people through

Brandon Burton (08:31.118)
Thanks for

You

Brandon Burton (08:42.926)
Oh, I have to say to you, it’s amazing how much I’ve learned.

Karyn MacRae (08:55.616)
throughout the entire four years is that you are able to develop these deeper bonds and relationships through interaction with the same people.

But on the flip side, you need that many more people by going to different sites and you can still develop the relationships. Absolutely. That is, it’s amazing, honestly, to see you’re really only together for five days in person for each Institute week. And it seems like people have been.

you know, contacts and friends and colleagues for years, even though it’s only been a couple of days. So it’s really neat. I don’t want to give the impression that an attendee can’t develop those strong and deep relationships if they go to multiple sites. That’s absolutely not true. So for sure, the relationship building, that is a big, big benefit that we highlight and that we hear from all of our attendees that go through the

Brandon Burton (09:31.916)
Yeah.

Karyn MacRae (09:57.307)
program. Another benefit is the education, the professional development, the continuing education. Our classes are taught by a variety of different faculty members, many of whom you’ve had as guests on your show before, so we love the crossover. But they really are the experts. So we have a variety of different categories, our industry consultants who go around and specialize in this area for chambers and nonprofits. So

They know what they’re talking about. Another group, of course, are practitioners. So those fellow chamber professionals and associations, and they are…

in the trenches day in and day out. for sure, they really, say the consultants are the experts and no disrespect to them, they are. And our practitioners really are the ones who are dealing with all of the issues and the concerns and the triumphs and everything that our attendees are going through. Our practitioners are also going through as well. We also have our experts who are actual CPAs who teach finance

Brandon Burton (10:41.451)
Thank

Karyn MacRae (11:08.554)
classes, lawyers teach the law classes, et cetera. So they’re credentialed in their specific fields. And then we have a smaller group sometimes of university professors, as well as US Chamber and US Chamber Foundation staff who teach some of the classes too. So you’re getting.

Brandon Burton (11:22.702)
Let’s go. Open your eyes. Fight.

Karyn MacRae (11:27.154)
a wide variety of experience and knowledge from across the country. That’s another benefit is that it’s a national program. So, attendees and faculty members and our volunteers are coming from all different areas, even though we do have four sites that are broken down and placed by geography.

Brandon Burton (11:49.045)
Thank

Karyn MacRae (11:51.035)
the attendee base doesn’t necessarily stay in that geographic area. So that’s another benefit for sure is getting a wider

exposure to all different parts of the country. And hearing from peers. It’s not just the faculty. It’s that peer-to-peer sharing that we love and that our attendees love because whether you are brand new to the industry, like you said, you have a lot of chamber champions who are just getting their feet wet and trying to learn more about the industry. And we always recommend that they go to institutes selfishly.

Brandon Burton (12:02.158)
Yeah. Okay. Great.

Brandon Burton (12:28.716)
That’s right.

Karyn MacRae (12:31.422)
Want

really neat things is that yes, we do have some attendees on that side. And then on the other side, we have our industry veterans who have been in these roles, have been running chambers, maybe even have started out at the entry level and have worked their way up to president and CEO of their chamber. And they’re in the class together. They’re in the same cohort. So being able to share ideas with one another, you know, the veterans can learn just as much from the newbies and vice versa.

So so really having those opportunities are It’s a big it’s a big benefit And then as far as who we target it’s it’s everyone. No, like I said, there are a whole variety of levels of experience so if you work for a chamber or a trade association or a nonprofit then you are the perfect person to come to Institute it’s anyone who’s looking to improve their

Brandon Burton (13:17.614)
you

Brandon Burton (13:26.166)
I think we have to stay in this situation. That’s the end of the movie.

Karyn MacRae (13:31.697)
organization, know, thus obviously improving their their members and and and their communities Anyone looking to grow their network anyone looking to share ideas and get more ideas? Here from other chamber professionals in the industry as you know, it’s a it’s a unique industry. So getting that

Brandon Burton (13:50.83)
So, we’re ready to start.

Karyn MacRae (13:53.375)
and having that safe space to really be with your people, your village, as you mentioned earlier. So, yeah.

Brandon Burton (13:58.989)
That’s right. Yeah. So I’m so glad that we have you on the show because when I first started Chamber Chat, my experience was working as a chamber publisher and I would meet chambers of all different sizes and experience and some were really doing well. And I could tell by my interaction with their members, right? The members understood what the chamber’s mission was, what they were

Karyn MacRae (14:23.911)
Okay.

Brandon Burton (14:27.48)
doing their purpose going forward, where some other chambers kind of struggled a little bit. And as I met with their members, they’re like, I pay my dues, but I don’t see anything out of it. I don’t even know what the chamber does. the more I kind of learned about it and dove into it, I realized those chambers that were struggling, they, they didn’t go to Institute. They didn’t have, maybe their, their board didn’t allow for them to, you know, have the funding to go to their state conferences or.

You know, some regional conferences or things of that nature where they can learn from their peers. And as we’ve mentioned before, a lot of newcomers to the industry find the podcast and it’s part of their hydration as they drink through a fire hose is just getting all this information. But to have this be one of those key elements that they learn about early in their chamber journey and their experience in the industry, I think is so important.

Karyn MacRae (15:15.262)
Mm-hmm.

Brandon Burton (15:25.72)
to help them be able to get educated and to be able to build those connections, build that tribe, because so often in your community, you’re the only one in the community that’s doing your job. And if you can lean upon others, yes, you will have a board and things like that, but some things you don’t want to take to your board because maybe it reduces confidence in you as a leader, but if you can go to a peer in the industry who’s seen what you’re talking about, they can help give some ideas and.

Karyn MacRae (15:45.936)
Sure.

Brandon Burton (15:54.799)
and a fresh perspective on how to approach some of these things. So you’ve hit on a lot of these great benefits and I’m sure we’ll touch on some more as well, but I wanna make sure that we have an opportunity to touch on for those maybe smaller chambers, those who are, I’ll say a little underserved, which by the podcast became something. Can we speak to them for a minute about how to

get involved? can they have those conversations with their board? How can they find the funding? are some ways that they can set that goal to attend Institute and to get to that finish line to actually go and attend?

Karyn MacRae (16:38.062)
Absolutely. So of course, there is a tuition to attend. And in addition to that, we do have other expenses because it takes place at four different locations there is usually unless it’s in your backyard travel involved. So you have to get yourself there. There’s lodging, there’s incidentals, etc. So we definitely understand that funding can be a barrier to entry for for some organizations. And there are a variety of ways we do

Brandon Burton (16:54.19)
you

Karyn MacRae (17:07.936)
offer Institute scholarships. We actually just passed the deadline. Unfortunately for the three summer sites that are coming up, but we do have our winter site taking place in January of 27 and those scholarship opportunities will open in July. So for anyone listening who might be interested, be on the lookout for that. So Institute does have a couple of different scholarships and those are all funded on site by

generous attendees by volunteers, by faculty, by staff, people who would like to and are in a position where they’re able to give back. So we do have a silent auction and we have additional other onsite fundraising opportunities. And that money is all distributed in the form of Institute scholarships for the specific site in which it is earned the year after.

Brandon Burton (17:47.214)
So we’re going to have to a way So thank you.

Karyn MacRae (18:05.026)
So that is for sure Institute scholarships are one opportunity. Also state organizations. So we do have partnerships with many of the state CCEs across the country. And if anyone is involved in your state CCE, I highly recommend communicating with them and seeing if they have any available funding. If they do go through our formal state partner scholarship,

partnership with the US Chamber, then they are given a $500 tuition scholarship to award to a first-time attendee. So that is a formalized scholarship process through Institute that is all the deliberations and everything is awarded by that state CCE organization. In addition to that,

Brandon Burton (18:33.582)
This is

Karyn MacRae (18:54.652)
Sometimes these CCEs have additional scholarships that aren’t technically through Institute, but they have funding available for professional development programs, one of which can be Institute. So I obviously can’t speak to all of the CCEs, but I do know that opportunities are available. And we have heard from many attendees that they were able to get additional funding, not through Institute.

Brandon Burton (19:06.439)
I would say it’s these more organized, more organized, more organized.

Karyn MacRae (19:20.284)
but rather their state CCE organization. that’s definitely an option. And something that we’re hearing more and more about that honestly, I will say I had not heard of this and I had not realized this and I’m slightly embarrassed because I’ve been here for so long until a few years ago I learned this, that some of our volunteers and attendees have gotten their tuition funded by a member. They have gone to

Brandon Burton (19:44.94)
him

Karyn MacRae (19:50.191)
A local utility company is one that we’ve heard a lot of, but a local member and have said, hey, there’s this opportunity. I need some assistance financially. And here are the benefits. Here’s what I can take back and apply to produce ROI for our community and for your business. Would you be interested in helping to sponsor me? So what I have heard from those people

Brandon Burton (19:59.917)
you

Karyn MacRae (20:20.064)
people who have had that opportunity to have a local member sponsor them is that after the first year of the program, or should I say first week, excuse me, they have taken the ideas learned and applied them and the ROI that has come out of it.

has been so great or so impactful that their board at the chamber has been like, okay, I see what you’re talking about. I see the benefit. We will make it a point to find the money and budget for the professional development for years or weeks two through four. So of course, that’s a perfect ideal scenario. I recognize that that doesn’t always happen, but we have heard that it can happen. utilizing your network within your…

Brandon Burton (20:50.158)
Bye.

Brandon Burton (21:00.845)
Right.

Karyn MacRae (21:08.794)
own community and and reaching out we do have a couple of testimonials available on our website and certainly happy to make connections if someone is struggling and would like a little bit more guidance or you know advice on that also utilizing our volunteer network our volunteers are amazing again many of which have been guests on your show already so they are all graduates of the program and they want to give back

Brandon Burton (21:17.39)
and the public health and the public health system. This government is not going to be able to do anything about this.

Brandon Burton (21:32.952)
Great.

Karyn MacRae (21:38.577)
I can sit here and talk about all the benefits of Institute and and I do obviously But I get paid to do that. Whereas our volunteers and I do I do truly believe in our program This is this is genuine passion and excitement, but our volunteers, you know They they truly see the benefits and they want to pay it forward and they want to give back They have had many a conversation with chamber professionals who are finding it difficult

Brandon Burton (21:44.942)
That’s right, it’s your job.

Karyn MacRae (22:08.5)
to get that approval to find that funding. So I know I’m volunteering, our volunteers, to have those conversations. But if anyone listening really would like to be connected, definitely reach out and we can make those connections, because that is certainly an opportunity as well.

Brandon Burton (22:14.978)
Great.

Brandon Burton (22:28.087)
That’s perfect. I’m so grateful for you sharing those different resources, not only from funding, but those connections to the volunteers and to really, I think, help have a good argument. So if you go to your board or you try to find that member to help finance, you know, your tuition and travel and whatnot for Institute to really have those talking points down, this is what you can expect out of me.

going and getting educated and bringing this back to the community. So I wanted to ask, as far as the faculty goes and the curriculum, is it a set curriculum for each campus and by each week, I’ll say, instead of year?

Karyn MacRae (23:01.374)
Hmm?

Karyn MacRae (23:08.67)
Thanks for listening.

Karyn MacRae (23:13.882)
Great question and yeah, I should should dive into the curriculum. Absolutely. So it is a set curriculum It’s actually tied to the bodies of knowledge of the CCE the certified chamber executive credential offered by a CCE and then on the association side, which I realize your listeners are not on the association side, but I do need to mention because it is part of it the Certified Association executive credential offered by ASAE

Brandon Burton (23:34.723)
Yeah.

Karyn MacRae (23:41.369)
So we do have representatives from those two organizations who actually sit on our Curriculum Committee as well as our National Board of Trustees and we make sure that we are in line with their bodies of knowledge the trends and everything that they’re hearing and experiencing throughout the industry that Institute matches that and that we are staying abreast of all the Important topics in areas that we should be so the curriculum is set and our faculty

members do go through a rigorous interview process and they are selected and placed based upon a variety of factors but one of which is area of expertise and experience. So based upon who is qualified to teach each certain class.

They are given a syllabus where all of the classes have three or four course objectives. That’s all the same throughout every institute site. Where it differs is the faculty members own experience and perspective and presentation style. So they are asked to teach the same course objectives, but how they deliver that information and how they do their coursework and group work, will say a big

of Institute that I have not yet mentioned is that it is very interactive. There are long days, it’s 96 hours as I mentioned over the course of the four weeks, but each week is 24 hours. So attendees are in class starting at 8 a.m. Sometimes the longest day starts out very, very long and then it gets shorter throughout the week, but it’s until 6 15. So it’s a lot. Obviously there are breaks and meals and whatnot, but it’s a lot of…

Brandon Burton (25:04.891)
Yes.

Karyn MacRae (25:27.388)
being in class and listening so we yes exactly

Brandon Burton (25:30.042)
The interactive part of it is what helps build those relationships that you come out of it. And I guess if you’re one on a fast track, you where you’re hopping around to different campuses, you don’t have the entitlement to say West is best or anything like that. And maybe you do because you’ve tried them all, but you don’t have that same affiliation and affinity to the same group that you went through with. But the interactivity is what’s going to build those bonds because you’re working on these problems together.

Karyn MacRae (25:38.107)
No.

Karyn MacRae (25:42.566)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Brandon Burton (25:56.919)
and coming to solutions together as well. Sorry, I didn’t mean to cut you off, but.

Karyn MacRae (25:57.247)
Thank you. Again, I could talk about Institute forever. It’s a problem. But no, absolutely exactly what you just said. that engagement and that inactivity is so important, not only for.

You know and learning and sharing best practices, but candidly just to get through the day. It’s a long day So, you know, it’s it’s not just our faculty who are amazing. It’s not just them standing up in front of people lecturing for three hours It’s very interactive. So Again going back to your original question. The base curriculum is the same however, you can take the same class at a different site and sometimes people do when I actually

Brandon Burton (26:23.971)
Yeah.

Brandon Burton (26:31.342)
So, we have the question, the answer is yes.

Karyn MacRae (26:47.22)
through the program, I took the same elective because those are opportunities where you get to select. Whereas the core classes, they are assigned to you based on the year of the program of which you are. So I took the same elective multiple times and I got something different out of it each time because the faculty member changes, the world changes. mean, especially, you know, these classes weren’t around when I went, but the AI and

Brandon Burton (26:51.726)
you

Brandon Burton (27:12.247)
Right.

Karyn MacRae (27:17.188)
know, advanced technology classes, things are changing a mile a minute. yes, yes, the curriculum is the same and you can get different things out of it each time.

Brandon Burton (27:28.94)
Yeah, that’s fantastic. So this is going to be a loaded question, but as I see our time getting short, I wanted to see, there anything else that we need to touch on as far as the Institute program for the listeners? You want to make sure that they know about and that we cover before we move on.

Karyn MacRae (27:36.199)
storm.

Karyn MacRae (27:44.433)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, thank you. would say the only other thing that I had not mentioned yet is that we do offer year-round programming. So the Institute week itself, of course, is five days on site, very intensive. You are locked into those five days. For those who might not be able to make that commitment, it be financial, time, you know, whatever it might be, we do have other opportunities that do take place year-round.

That don’t involve travel so we have a monthly webinar series. We have our own podcast Which hopefully branding you’ll be a guest on soon and we also We have an Institute blog and we have our new Institute faculty office hours and that is an opportunity for Three to five is when we typically have three to five different faculty members It’s it’s essentially and ask me anything in AMA session for an hour where attendees

Brandon Burton (28:22.68)
Yeah. Yeah.

Karyn MacRae (28:45.952)
prospects, graduates, volunteers. You don’t even have to be connected to Institute if you stumble upon it through LinkedIn or maybe you will get some new participants through the Chamber Chat podcast. And it’s just an opportunity to chat with our faculty members. So all of these opportunities are free and again you don’t even have to be affiliated with Institute. We hope that you become but you don’t have to be.

Brandon Burton (29:01.464)
Yeah.

Brandon Burton (29:15.82)
Right. Now those are great resources to plug and put out there and I’m glad I asked that question. So maybe that took from your next answer, but I like asking everyone I have on the show, for those who are listening, who want to take their organization up to the next level, what kind of tip or action item would you share with them as they strive towards that goal?

Karyn MacRae (29:15.943)
So.

Karyn MacRae (29:22.692)
Yeah, no, thank you. Didn’t even think about it.

Karyn MacRae (29:41.297)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. aside from going to Institute, which, you know, have to say really, and yeah, we’ve talked, we’ve talked about this throughout the podcast, but, but leaning on your people, I’d say that would be, that would be my piece of advice or recommendation that there’s no silly question. mean, again, to reiterate, the chamber industry is so unique and it’s, it’s really unlike any other.

Brandon Burton (29:44.726)
Right. Aside from the obvious.

Karyn MacRae (30:11.2)
You know taking advantage of that network that you have and if you if you don’t already have a network reach reach out you know to your fellow chamber champions and And don’t be embarrassed everyone who is in a position where they are now has likely Already gone through the things that it’s somebody newer to the chamber industry is is going through now So I would just say don’t be shy and and lean on your people

Brandon Burton (30:38.476)
Yeah, that’s great. So my next question, I ask it to everyone I have on the show, but I’m interested in your perspective since you guys are keeping tabs on the trends that are going on in the chamber industry and everything. But how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Karyn MacRae (30:50.812)
Yeah.

Karyn MacRae (30:55.102)
I think just given where we are in today’s polarized climate and

uncertainty and changes and everything that’s going on. I really do believe that people will continue to look to Chambers to be that voice, know, that advocate, that convener in the business community. And I think that’s such an important role that I really don’t see going anywhere. Obviously, there are

Brandon Burton (31:31.16)
you

Karyn MacRae (31:36.965)
challenges and struggles in each organization, no matter how big your budget and what support you have from your board. Everyone’s going to experience these challenges, but I think that makes it that much more important for members to show up and to provide these resources and to be advocates for your members, specifically the business community. So I really see Chambers continuing to play this very important role.

Brandon Burton (31:40.012)
Thank

Brandon Burton (31:54.766)
based on our findings from the previous investigation.

Brandon Burton (32:02.639)
and we’ll

Karyn MacRae (32:06.848)
And I’m interested to see where where it all goes, but I don’t I don’t see us going

Brandon Burton (32:11.503)
That’s right. Yeah, that’s great. I wanted to give you an opportunity, Karyn, to share any contact information for listeners who might want to reach out and connect or learn more about the Institute program and enrolling or some of these other resources you offered. Where would you point them and what would be the best way for them to connect?

Karyn MacRae (32:32.472)
Absolutely. Thank you, Brandon. So our website, I think has all the information that you could ever want to know. It’s a institute.uschamber.com. You can also send us an email. This is might be easier to remember at IOM@uschamber.com and then follow us on socials. We’re on LinkedIn and Instagram and Facebook and YouTube. The handle is the same. IOM educates with an S and that’s

is where we’ll post all sorts of information about deadlines and registration launches and all of the opportunities to the programs that I mentioned previously with the faculty office hours and webinars etc. All of those things are available to you. I highly highly recommend checking them out.

Brandon Burton (33:21.603)
That’s perfect. We’ll get all of that linked in our show notes for this episode. But again, I wanted to thank you for setting aside some time and being with us today here on Chamber Chat podcast and talking about all the wonderful benefits of the Institute program. And I hope that those listening take some action on this, you know, whether it’s, you know, registering for Institute and going all in or showing up for a webinar and learning a little more, picking that curiosity and building up.

but learning more about how to better serve your community. And thank you again, Karyn, for being with us today. I appreciate it.

Karyn MacRae (33:58.057)
Thank you so much, Brandon. Really appreciate the opportunity. Thank you.

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Small Business with Tom Sullivan

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your hosts Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

Our title sponsor for this episode is Bringing Local Back. Remember when your community could turn to a local TV station or newspaper for the latest updates and affordable ads? Those days may be fading, but the need for local connection remains. That’s why we created Bringing Local Back, a game changing platform that restores the local visibility and advertising power to your community. It’s more than just tech. It’s about driving engagement and creating new revenue for your chamber. Ready to see the future visit bringinglocalback.com to schedule your demo today. This is the future of local commerce.

Our guest for this episode is Thomas Sullivan. Thomas is the Vice President of Small Business Policy at the US Chamber of Commerce, working with the US Chamber’s nationwide network. Tom harnesses the views of small businesses and translates that grassroots power into federal policies that bolster free enterprise and reward entrepreneurships. He also runs a US Chamber Small Business Council, engaging those members on a regular basis to increase Small Business input and involvement in chamber initiatives. Tom’s advocacy career spans from creating Legal Center at the National Federation of Independent Business to General Counsel at the Bipartisan Policy Center to building the innovative lending platform Association. Tom received unanimous Senate approval to serve as SBA Chief Counsel for advocacy at the George W Bush administration, and remains active in the bush Cheney alumni network. Tom and his wife live in Virginia and are blessed with two teenage sons. Tom serves on the board for the Global Entrepreneurship Network and is a graduate of the Chamber’s four year Ioan credential program. Tom, I’m excited to have you with us today here on chamber chat podcast. I’d love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the chamber champions who are out there listening, and to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better. Well. Thank

Tom Sullivan 2:37
you. Brandon, hello all the chamber chat listeners, it’s great to be with you today. Let’s see something interesting about me. Well, you know Brandon, when you and I were chatting about the day that this podcast will air, April one, not only is it April Fool’s Day, but it is a day that is forever etched in my memory and pain in my lower back, because I have significant structure in my lower back where several of my vertebrae are fused together, and that was done on April 1, a long time ago, so I’ll Never forget that day. It is certainly something interesting, yeah,

Brandon Burton 3:22
and hopefully it’s improved your life since then,

Tom Sullivan 3:27
it has, definitely has. I can, I can, I can use both legs regularly. So yes, it’s, it’s, it worked. That

Brandon Burton 3:35
is a good improvement, for sure. Yeah, well, Tom usually I have the guests tell a little bit about their chamber size, staff, budget, scope of work being at the US Chamber, why don’t you instead tell us a little bit more about your role with the US Chamber to kind of set the stage for our discussion. Well, Brandon,

Tom Sullivan 3:54
thank you. So first of all, I am a little bit biased, but I do have the best job at the United States Chamber of Commerce here in Washington, DC. The reason it’s the best job is I get to spend every day talking with folks who are probably listening to this podcast local state chamber leaders as well as their small business members. Now I get the added benefit of taking what I learned from all of those wonderful folks and advocate before Congress and the White House, but I truly think it is the best job, mostly because I get to talk with small business owners every day.

Brandon Burton 4:29
Absolutely, I can totally understand why you would say it’s the best job in the world. That’s I love working with chambers for that very reason, they’re the ones that are dealing with people that are on the front lines with, you know, putting bread on the table, so to speak, for families across this country. Well, for our topic of conversation today, we’re going to spend the majority of our focus on small business on the local and the national scale. And. And bringing in some of your expertise, some of the things that you’ve seen, and some things that you may see on the horizon as well, with regard to small business, and we’ll dive into this as soon as they get back from this quick break.

Joe Duemig
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Rose Duemig
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All right. Tom, we are back. So as we turn our focus today on small business, on the local and the national scale, I know your focus is on that all the time, but what are some of the things that you see as you, as you interact with chambers across the country, as you, you know, pay attention to the needs of small businesses. What are those things that are top of mind right now, things that to be paying attention about? To be fair, we are recording this in in December of 2024 so by the time this comes out in in April 2025 we may see a little bit of a different climate, but at this point, how do you see things, and what are those things that are top of mind? Well,

Tom Sullivan 9:10
thank you Brandon, and thank you also for letting the listeners know that here in December, while we’re awaiting president elect Trump to take office, there is some uncertainty, and I’m sure that by April, all that uncertainty, you know, smooth sailing, but, but seriously, there are some things that will certainly still be front and center on the radar as your listeners are listening right now. Probably the thing that has been on every small business owners radar for close to three years has been inflation. This has been the the strongest headwind for small business growth for three years and. There certainly have been proposals to reduce inflation and whatever those proposals are, small businesses are going to be the largest cheerleading section, because it it has been a wet blanket on growth for small businesses that have been anxious for that growth to take off for some time. So solutions to inflation are front and center for every small business in the country, and most of my job is trying to look at small business policy through the lenses of growth, and that means through the lenses of those policy solutions designed to reduce inflation.

Brandon Burton 10:45
And that is such a hot topic, for sure. And even as this is released in April of 2025 inflation is not one of those things that you can just turn a dial and it’s fixed right. There’s, it’s a it’s that small steering of that ship, that that makes those, those changes. And some of this gets done on the, you know, the advocacy front. Some of it is, you know, when it comes to importing and exporting and where these goods are coming from, and there’s a lot that plays into the cost of goods, right to Yeah, what we look at with inflation, but for sure, on the local level, for the local chambers listening, is there, are there things that they can do to whether it’s to help with inflation or or to put minds at ease of their members and help them to navigate their way through the uncertainty with with inflation. Well, let’s, let’s

Tom Sullivan 11:45
start first hit on your your question about, How do they help? And I just want every listener to know how important it is to show up. And I don’t mean just show up was switching on the zoom camera or picking up the phone. I mean, coming to Washington, DC and having your voices heard. I mean, this is something I do every day. And you know, it’s nice when lawmakers are sick of seeing my face, but every time a small business owner comes from the district that has elected this member of Congress. Every time they go into the office. That’s what makes a difference. I mean, the best lobbyist I have ever met, and I’m saying that with full acknowledgement that my wife is a lobbyist. So the best lobbyist I have ever met is Yasin Taru from Knoxville, Tennessee. He owns a falafel shop, and he comes to Washington, DC, and, you know, he gets the selfie pictures with with members of Congress and all that stuff. But then when the member of Congress sits down and the staff around them take out their notepads and pencils. He says, Look, he starts locally. Hey, when are you going to, you know, you said you were going to have some federal money to rebuild that bridge. Like, how’s that going? Where’s the progress? Because I haven’t seen the construction trucks pulling up yet. And and the member of Congress looks at the staff member and says, okay, yeah, we got to follow up with that. And then Yaseen generally, then goes on to tax policy. It says, Look, you know, some of these tax provisions really have to be made permanent, because it helps me and it helps millions of other small businesses around the meeting ends, Yasin goes home to his beautiful family, and then it’s up to me and my colleagues at the US Chamber of Commerce, along with the colleagues of chambers all over the United States, to make sure that there’s follow up capitalizing on that local small business owners advocacy. And I could tell you, Brandon, it makes a huge, huge difference. Every Yaffe in Toru who shows up in a member of Congress’s office, is worth 20 times when I show up. Yeah, so the magnifying impact really, really does make a difference. And now I know that small business owners, you know, they gotta make enough profit at the end of the day so that the lights can get turned on the following day, and they’ve got to make enough money so that food does get on the table of their employees. So it’s hard just to pick up and go to Washington, DC, but I can assure every small business owner it makes a difference, and what makes an extra difference is when they talk with their local chamber first, make sure they get their message down so that they know what the ask is that will help them as a small business and will help the entire community of small businesses that honestly, they’re representing when they make that trip to Washington, DC.

Brandon Burton 14:57
Yeah, and I see you know. All the time, these chambers that do their Washington DC fly in and, you know, maybe bring some of their people from their board, who are these business owners, and be able to present their voices and concerns and what their needs are. And I know not every chamber has the ability to do that, but there is strength in numbers. So the more, the more that show up and can plea that case and hopefully be in line with each other too, so you don’t have one chamber contradicting what another saying, right? Well,

Tom Sullivan 15:29
you know, we we do more to just have folks come and and speak their mind than we do worrying about whether or not everyone is on the same page. One small business owner has a different view of how their business can grow, and the federal incentives to make that happen, it’s not going to be so different from another. Growth is primarily the main talking point, and small business owners know what it means to grow. They know what it it means to grow as an economy that actually bolsters the America as a superpower instead of making it weaker by adding deficit. So we don’t worry that much about exact messaging. We worry mostly to make sure that our representatives are speaking through the lenses of growth, to their their policy makers. And I should also at least acknowledge you don’t have to come to Washington, DC. Every member of Congress has local district offices. And when they’re when they come back home to the voters who elected them, they want to visit with small businesses. Not only is it a great photo op, but it is also great from a Chamber of Commerce’s perspective, that that small business owner gets the undivided attention of the elected leader through the entire visit. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 16:54
that’s a good point. So a couple times now you’ve mentioned looking at things through the the lens of growth, or presenting things from that that perspective, and as I think of these, a lot of the lawmakers, they’ve they’ve been in politics their their adult life, right? They, a lot of them have not run and operated a business themselves. So is there any maybe best practices on how to communicate through that lens of growth that can be relatable to those that they need to relate it to? Well,

Tom Sullivan 17:24
what a great question. The answer is yes, there is some advice. So first of all, the advice is, be who you are. Don’t try to be a lobbyist from Washington, DC. Don’t try to be like the most caught up on the latest scandal of the hour. Just be who you are and tell your story and practice your story, either with your loved ones or your local chamber leader, and have them ask questions the way that a member of Congress would I love telling a very recent story that happened. We have been already aggressively meeting with Congress to promote the pro growth aspects of tax policy that are set to expire at the end of 2025 Our campaign is designed to make those provisions permanent, so that at the end of 2025 all of a sudden, small business owners don’t wake up with an enormous tax bill that they didn’t expect. And we brought in a local small business from Bucha, Arizona, who sells hay, alfalfa, if you want to be more specific. And he was wonderful. He was meeting with Dave Schweikert, who is a member of Congress, who serves on the tax writing committee, and and Dick Cardo, who’s the owner of Cardo hay company. He said, you know, all this, this whole discussion of taxes, is just so complicated, and it’s this is awkward for me as a small business owner, I don’t really know what to say. All I know is, for the past five years, I have been saving a little bit every year in order to buy this piece of machinery that bails hay and puts the hay on my truck in a way that I don’t have to because I’m getting older and I can’t do it anymore. And, and the congressional staffer looked at dick and said, Oh my gosh, that like, that’s the example we’ve been looking for. Yes. And he said, Where are you gonna buy this equipment? He said, Oh well, you know, I, my friend down the street, sells this particular piece of equipment, we’re going to get it there. And so all of a sudden, Dick is just telling his story and what he’s been doing, which is saving some dollars at the end of every year, which is made possible through some tax deductions that are set to expire. Not only is he saving that to spend it. He’s spending it for his business to grow, and he’s also spending it at a neighboring business that will allow them to grow. And so the reason I tell you that story is sometimes we make it too complicated, and it’s as simple as telling your story that connects your local experience with a national policy that is designed to promote growth, and that’s what Dick did. And I’ll continue telling that story to anyone who will listen. What

Brandon Burton 20:32
a great example. And you know, sometimes there’s sometimes government can get in the way of that growth, and we want to be able to take down some of those barriers, eliminate some of those things. And for him to say, I’m trying to save a little bit each year to make his job easier, but be more productive, to help his business, help others. And then, as you’re explaining this, the whole thought of inflation creeps back in here too. I mean, that ties right back into it when he’s saving a little bit each year, but that little bit is less than is less and less each year because of that. So it all. It all plays into it. So does it. Does wonderful example. Is there anything that local chambers can do to help with their their members, maybe to put their mind cities or to to help them carry on, you know, through a lens of growth that will allow them to maybe not focus on the the negative effects so much of inflation, but continue to look at opportunities to grow and control what you can control and and maybe encourage others to help you in the other areas,

Tom Sullivan 21:43
there certainly are ways that local chambers can learn from each other, perhaps learn from you and me and others. You know. One of them is Institute. You know, the Institute of organization management, otherwise known as Institute or IOM. I’m a winter Institute graduate down in Tucson, Arizona. You know the networks and learnings that all Institute graduates benefit from carry on for the rest of their professional lives. And when you’re struggling with something all of a sudden, you have this immediate network of other chamber professionals who hopefully are listening to this podcast. And that does provide comfort, it does provide certainty, and it does provide paths forward. The other thing to do is to recognize that that the relationship with the US Chamber of Commerce is intended to be a two way value proposition, and the access that our 1600 local, state and regional Chambers of Commerce have who pay a small amount in order to be part of that network. Their value is gained from getting the regular insider information about what’s going on, and then we encourage those local chamber executives to share it with their membership, so that that connectivity, which really chambers are famous for because that’s what we basically do. At our core, is we connect people work. We’re the community connectors, and the more that we can lean into that connectedness, whether it’s through IOM Institute or whether it’s from being part of what we call the Federation, sounds like a Star Wars term, but really it’s just a term that is assigned to this incredible network of both trade associations and local, state and regional Chambers of Commerce. So just leaning into that connectivity, I think, diminishes some of the fear, some of the uncertainty, and does create some really long, lasting bonds.

Brandon Burton 24:03
I think that’s great advice. And anybody who I know has been through the IOM program would would echo that. And in fact, it’s often a action item that that guests will share with others, is to build that professional network and to to have those peers that you can lean upon and in the, you know, the US Chamber, even to lean upon. Well, what other what other things come to mind when you go about your work with focusing on small businesses and that, that lens for growth, what what other things are top of mind for you at the moment?

Tom Sullivan 24:39
Well, you know, one of the things that is constantly top of mind are the day to day challenges of small business owners. I mean, I’m lucky to deal with national policy issues, so tax, health care, regulatory policy, those types of things are within my remit. But you know, what about. About choosing a payroll provider? What you know? What about finding an inventory management system? All of these things that are, are the that that are worries, concerns, and, quite frankly, opportunities at a small business level, the US, Chamber of Commerce, traditionally never really addressed those daily needs until COVID, when COVID hit, this desperate need for information was absorbed by our then new CEO, who was a small business owner herself, Suzanne Clark, and she heard this thirst, she felt this thirst for practical information, and we responded by launching a small business digital platform. It’s called co CEO, that digital platform is designed to answer these questions that small business owners have that are daily challenges, and the greatest thing about CO is that the answers come from other small business owners. So how do you choose a payroll provider? Well, there are stories on this small business digital platform called CO that interview a small business owner, and that small business owner tells how she chose a payroll provider or manages a supply chain or how they could figure out how the heck to hire a really good employee like these, these things that keep small business owners up at night are answered by their peers through this digital platform that is available for anyone, and Our local and State Chambers of Commerce are certainly taking advantage of it by by embedding the CO platform into their communications with their members, and it is open to anyone who has a good internet connection. And I’m just really happy that now that COVID is in our rear view mirror our commitment to answer daily questions and challenges small businesses face continues to be a priority. I think that that has to do in a large part because our CEO is Suzanne Clark, is a former small business owner, but it also is an example of how we saw something, we built it into our new muscle memory, and we’re committed to continue it long term.

Brandon Burton 27:46
Yeah, that is that’s a great example and great resource. So if the chambers listening have not been utilizing co I’d encourage them to check it out and see where it makes sense to implement it with your members, and, like Tom said, embedded into your communications, because it sounds like a wonderful resource. Well, Tom, as we start to wrap things up here, I wanted to ask for the chambers listening who may be wanting to, you know, take their chamber up to the next level. What kind of tips or action item might you share with them to try to accomplish that goal. Well,

Tom Sullivan 28:23
I’ll go back to my friends at IOM and Institute in the Federation. You there is a chamber of commerce accreditation process, and those five star chambers around the United States are the best of the best, and that means that that process isn’t easy, but I’ve never heard a five star chamber saying, Wow, that was a heck of a waste of time. I mean, the other way around, we hear like, you know, I had no time for it, and it was hard. But now that we got our accreditation, it was worth it. And I think the chambers that are looking to go to the next level should look very seriously at the Chamber’s accreditation program and see if they can jump in with both feet,

Brandon Burton 29:18
and even if, even if they’re not awarded with a five star accreditation. It’s a good refining process to go through the exercise and see where you where you stack up, and where you can find areas to improve and be more efficient as an organization. Well, Tom, as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Tom Sullivan 29:41
So Brandon, in this digital world we live in, I think there’s an even greater need and appreciation for the convening power of chambers. Now we we have the luxury now of convening in a multitude of ways, but it’s still convening. Yeah, um. And whatever flavor that takes. I do think that the power of networks that are made possible through the convening are actually at an all time high. I say that also with the realization that for the past five years we’ve had record breaking new business starts, and that means there are all these new small businesses looking for connectivity, looking for network opportunities, virtually and in person, and chambers of commerce are uniquely situated to capitalize on it.

Brandon Burton 30:37
I love that, the idea of the power of the networks. I’ve heard a quote before, and I can’t attribute who I heard it from, but talked about digging your well before you’re thirsty, you know, you make those contacts, you have that network built. And then when there’s a need there, you’re not trying to develop those relationships right then in that moment, because you already have them, you can send out that message and say, Hey, I need help with this, you know. And you know those contacts who can help you. So great, great piece of advice and and way to look forward with the future of chambers, I wanted to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for listeners who may want to reach out and connect with you and maybe learn some more about what you have to offer in terms of a small business support. Where would you point them? What would be the best way to connect?

Tom Sullivan 31:27
The best way is through LinkedIn. Under Thomas Sullivan US Chamber of Commerce, you’ll you’ll find my LinkedIn profile. I tend to lean into LinkedIn a little bit more than some other social media platforms. I find the the dialog a little bit more respectful on on LinkedIn than some other social media platforms. But if, if those other social media platforms are your are your thing, my handle is smallbizpatriot, and that’s probably the easiest way to get me.

Brandon Burton 32:00
All right, we will make sure to get that in our show notes for this episode as well, to make it easy to find you and connect with you on LinkedIn. But Tom this has been great having you on the podcast. I really appreciate you taking some time to be with us today and to share some of these insights and and like you said, the the lens for growth. I love that, that perspective, and that’s really the way every chamber should be looking at small businesses in their community, is through that lens for growth. What can they do to help remove obstacles? What can they do to help create that network to allow for that growth? And this has been a valuable conversation, so I appreciate you.

Tom Sullivan 32:38
Well, Brandon, right back at you. I appreciate you, and I certainly appreciate all of the chamber executives who are listening, and in particular because of the great work that they do for their small business members.

Brandon Burton 32:53
If you are a chamber professional, please subscribe to Chamber Chat Podcast in Apple podcast, Google podcasts or Spotify. When you subscribe to Chamber Chat Podcast new episodes will show up in your podcast app each week as they are released. If you’re finding value in this podcast, please leave us a rating and a review in iTunes. But most importantly, please share Chamber Chat Podcast with your colleagues that are in the industry.

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