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Category: Advocacy

Value of Business Advocacy Councils with Janet Tressler-Davis

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Brandon Burton (00:00.974)
Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat podcast. I’m your host, Brandon Burton, and it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community. Joining us today is a truly impactful leader and community champion, Janet Tressler Davis, President and CEO of the Westerville Area Chamber of Commerce.

With a sharp strategic mind and deep commitment to local business, Janet has guided the chamber to national recognition, making it a vital force for entrepreneurship and economic growth. Janet holds the distinction of being a certified chamber executive and is a graduate of the US Chambers IOM program at Notre Dame. Her leadership has earned the chamber multiple honors, including the Torch Award for Ethics, Chamber of the Year, and Business of the Year.

while she’s personally been recognized with awards like Chamber Executive Director of the Year and Otterbein Alumni Community Service Award. A lifetime resident, or a lifelong resident of Westerville, Janet’s commitment to civil service is rooted in a family legacy of public leadership. Beyond her role at the chamber, she spent over three decades as a group fitness instructor.

bringing the same energy and passion to the studio as she does to her professional life. Janet, I’m excited to have you with us today here on Chamber Chat podcast. I’d love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the Chamber Champions who are out there listening and to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better.

Janet Tressler Davis (01:44.554)
Thank you, Brandon. Thank you for asking me to be part of the program too. Hello, chamber peers. It’s always good to interact with each other. So I hope you enjoy this, conversation today. Something interesting, Brandon already kind of mentioned it, but was a lifetime resident of the community that I serve in. So I know sometimes people make us as a profession and they move from community to community or state to state for chambers. And I’ve been blessed, I feel, to be able to be right in my home.

community to do this and watch the community grow as well as our chamber has grown. So I’ve loved every aspect of it.

Brandon Burton (02:20.556)
Yeah, so the question that I had is the group fitness instructor. You must have started when you were five doing the group fitness instructions, right? Trying to figure out how that math works. So that’s great.

Janet Tressler Davis (02:26.856)
hahaha

haha

Yeah, it’s been a long time. Even before I got married, I was teaching group fitness. So I danced all my life. then afterwards, I didn’t dance in college, but decided I wanted to stay active. And so I’ve worked for a couple of different locations and just evening classes or weekend classes is what I do.

Brandon Burton (02:52.502)
Yeah, very good. Well, tell us a little bit about the Westerville area chamber just to kind of set the stage for a conversation. I think it’d be helpful to know the size of the chamber, the staff, budget, the scope of work you guys are involved with just so we can all kind of relate where you’re coming from as we get into our discussion today.

Janet Tressler Davis (03:11.145)
Sure. So our Chamber of Commerce, when I started there 33 years ago, our chamber was about 250 members and we were in a small office of about 700 square feet and it was myself and one other person and she worked part-time. And then we moved different offices, in fact, three different times and finally found our destination and we built a building about 20 years ago and that is a 3,010 square foot building.

So we didn’t fill it at the time, but now today we do. So we’re very fortunate. We knew we’d grow into it eventually, so we just had tenants for probably a good 14 years. Currently our chamber’s about 817 members, and that represents a little over 17,000 employees. And our footprint is our school district. Our city of Westerville currently is a population of 40,000, but our school district’s about 100,000.

So that’s the foot pit recover. And so oftentimes, we do projects and work with the city, but they usually have a lens that stays within their city limits. So sometimes ours is a little bit broader than that. our Audubon University is in our community. That’s where I graduated from, but it’s a liberal arts university. And then we have a fantastic library, the third busiest library in state of Ohio. So lots of people use it. And their footprint is our school district as well.

And then of course our school district, have 23 schools and three of those are high schools. We have a city manager form of government, which is a little bit unique. Lots of times people will have a mayor type of government in their municipalities. And I think city manager form of government is nice because the leader of the city is not worrying about their next destination, like when they’re gonna have to run a campaign. So they’re elected by seven member city council.

which that is elected by the citizens of Westerville.

Brandon Burton (05:08.686)
Very good. Now as far as the work that you guys are involved with, are you guys strictly chambered? Do you have any of the tourism, economic development, any of that sort of responsibility?

Janet Tressler Davis (05:21.026)
No, we don’t. did start the Visitors Bureau before I started at the Chamber, but they spun that off and it’s its own C3. We were housed with the Visitors and Convention Bureau until we moved to our new office building about 20, it’s actually been 24 years ago that we actually built our building. We do have a Leadership Westerbill program that we started and then we spun it off on its own and hired an executive director and they have their own board.

And then we took that back about six years ago. And so still same kind of program, but we manage it within our office, but they still are their own 501C3 and they still have their own board.

Brandon Burton (06:01.932)
Okay, that’s very good. How many staff do you guys have? Okay, very good. How many staff do you guys have there in your chamber?

Janet Tressler Davis (06:04.079)
And then economic development is done by our city of Westerville. So, yeah. sorry. Yeah. I did miss that. Sorry. We have six staff members and that just grew this year. We just hired a membership growth person and spent, she does membership growth and special projects. And four of the positions are full-time positions. One is a 35 hour position and one’s a 25 hour position to make up the total of six.

Brandon Burton (06:33.72)
Very good. Well, that helps to have an understanding of the resources and the landscape that you’re coming from as we get into our topic today. So today we’ll be spending most of our time talking about business advocacy councils and we’ll dive into that in those details as soon as we get back from this quick break.

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All right, Janet, we’re back. As I mentioned before the break, today we’re talking about business advocacy councils. So I understand that you guys have set up some business advocacy councils.

It might be good before we get too deep into the weeds. know listeners of the podcast, some are brand new to the industry. Some have been in it for 30 years or more. But just on a high level, tell us what a business advocacy council is and how you guys went about creating them and the value of them and so on and so forth.

Janet Tressler Davis (07:28.551)
Absolutely. My first thought about a business advocacy or we used to call it government relations when we first started it is that we represent businesses and if we’re not looking at the business voice and looking out for the businesses in our community, who is? So we believe we should be. So shortly after I started, we created a government relations committee and we never started taking position on candidates, but we did review and still do issues and we’ll take position on state.

and local issues. And I think important thing to do is if you get in that space is to make sure when you decide if you’re going to take positions is what’s the business reason for doing it. Because sometimes a school levy, know, people feel passionate about it because their children are in school and certainly we always have to pass those levies. While that may be important, but what is the real business reason? Because we’re a business organization. So again, if we are in support of anything, that’s the lens that we look at it from.

is how it’s going to impact business. Or whether it’s an income tax or a library levy or fire levy, whatever it might be.

Brandon Burton (08:34.444)
Yeah, so as you guys kind of dove into this realm of creating these business advocacy councils, what were some of those first maybe higher level items that you guys noticed that we need to kind of wrap our minds around this and get some other strong minds around this to create this advocacy council?

Janet Tressler Davis (08:54.81)
Yeah, we had our school at the time at Ohio school funding is a little bit unique. I’m not sure if every state’s that way, but a lot of it depends on property tax and we get some portion from the state of Ohio, but we also have to make up the difference at the property taxes. And you can have bond levies, which are for your buildings and then operating levies, which is for everything else to operate. And oftentimes our levies were for two or three years.

and then they’d be back on the ballot. And back then they were on the ballot like every other year. And it was just getting fatigued in our community. And so we really dove in to understand how they’re using their money, why it seems like we don’t want to keep throwing money at a problem if there is a problem, but how we really rank among other school districts of our size at that time. And it really helped that we had a committee of passionate people that wanted to do that.

When you say like, how do you recruit people to be part of the committee? When we have a new member orientation, you we list all of our committees, we have 11 committees, we have 42 events a year. So there’s lots of ways that people can engage. But as soon as you start talking about advocacy work and government relations, either people’s eyes glaze over and think, I am not interested in getting in that, or people are like really interested. So it’s pretty easy to find those people that are really passionate about it.

Brandon Burton (10:16.632)
Yeah.

Janet Tressler Davis (10:18.092)
And we’ve just been fortunate to have a committee of anywhere from about 10 to 20 people that will participate. this is one of our two committees of the whole chamber that meet every month. So we often bring speakers in nowadays and we might bring someone in about the unemployment compensation system, or we might bring someone in from the Ohio chamber. We always bring in a lobbyist from the Ohio chamber at least once a year to talk about state issues or if it was the state budget.

you know, what’s going to get traction from those issues that passed in the state budget. And then workers compensation while people speak about that. And then we also at the local level, we’ll look at like our planning department, our zoning department, because sometimes we get calls from members that they’re trying to open their unit next door. They’re open, but they’re trying to open the one next door that they bought. And they have to wait and wait for inspections. And then all of a sudden they have someone come.

and they miss their low voltage inspections. So now they go to the bottom of the list to come back and get inspected. Well, the whole time, this business is paying rent. They probably hired the additional staff. They might have inventory in there. And so we try to serve as like a go-between or a liaison just to call the department and find out, there anything we can do to push this through? Because we are certainly wanting to look out for our businesses and make sure that they can be as prosperous as they can as soon as they can. And I’m sure our city wants that too.

but they have policies and strict procedures, so we sometimes will intercede if we can. And that’s how we got involved with working directly with city issues, even though those are not ballot issues, it’s more just making it a business-friendly environment.

Brandon Burton (11:57.26)
Yeah, which is just as important. So my question was going to be around recruitment. So you address that where you see the eyes glazing over and you can kind of separate those from the ones that are engaging. But do you extend invitations? Do you just ask people to show up? Is there an application to it? What does the process look like to formalizing a council?

Janet Tressler Davis (12:20.729)
Yeah, we don’t have applications for our committees. We do find out if people are interested and if they either they could fill out a form at the new member orientation or not everybody attends member orientation. So we certainly send it out when they join. And if they indicate interest, we invite them to come to a meeting or any of our committees. They can just come and check it out and see if it’s something that they’d like to serve on. And then a lot of committees will have different roles and we have.

we break out into three different areas within our council. And those areas that we track, we determine those based on a survey that we send our members every year. And we always ask one question that is always the same is, what’s preventing your business from advancing? And what are those issues? Is it state or local? And if it’s state, we list some issues. If it’s local, we list some areas. And then people can tell us that. And from there, that’s what we track. So at the state level and local level, know

state level, it’s been healthcare, workforce, and taxation. At a local level this year, it’s business regulations, workforce, and taxation. And so the workforce, we dive deeper into that and find out it’s more about talent development rather than talent attraction. So we could talk about that. We have a big space in the workforce arena that we’ve been focusing on for the last four years.

Brandon Burton (13:44.278)
Yeah, no, that’s great. So at any given time, how many of these different advocacy committees would you have operating or being actively engaged at any given time?

Janet Tressler Davis (13:58.43)
Well, the Maine Advocacy Council, so everybody we meet the first Tuesday of every month and those smaller groups, they get together when there’s an issue. So if the state is having an issue come up about taxation, they would meet offline from another meeting and then they report at the main meeting. Or they go to city council and listen to city council. We have a few people that will do that to find out what issues are coming up at city council. So it’s all just they do it on the off weeks.

Brandon Burton (14:16.352)
Okay.

Janet Tressler Davis (14:27.723)
of when we’re not meeting.

Brandon Burton (14:29.206)
Okay, that makes lot of sense. So I know chambers are all about tracking data, tracking information. So you wouldn’t keep doing this if it wasn’t helpful, if it wasn’t providing value. So maybe we can kind of shift the focus to the value of these councils and these business advocacy councils and really look at where is the needle moved as you guys have had this intense focus on these different issues that have popped up.

Can you share some of those wins or where you’ve seen the environment shift in your direction?

Janet Tressler Davis (15:06.721)
Yeah, good or bad, when people do come to us, if there’s a ballot issue, when your community, if your school board or your city council, if they come to you, the people that are running the campaign and want your endorsement, I think that says something because they know it represents the business community. So we’re fortunate that people do ask for that. Sometimes right now we’re in the middle of a school levy issue right now and it’s a difficult one. And, you know, we really hate to not support it.

But you also, if you stay neutral most of the time, they think you’re not supporting it, know, so they really want you to support it for sure. we have to find those, again, those business reasons why to do that. So the win for that though, to me is that they find value in businesses. They wanna know what the businesses think and they want their support. The next area of value is that our Hope Bar members are feeling like they’re in the know, either because they can come to meetings.

or we do put the minutes out from the meeting on our website. And then we also have a legislative link that will put out, I guess, a section of our newsletter that goes out once a month if there’s a particular ballot issue or even a state issue that’s not even on the ballot, but it’s just something that legislators are talking about that we want our members to know or maybe write a letter campaign. And we try to encourage our members to write letters on supporting a certain aspect of a piece of legislation.

We also bring our state reps and our senators in once a year. And I just randomly, I probably have to invite 40 members and then we try to get 20 in a room. And we let that be the conversation. It’s not for the legislators to be telling us things, it’s letting them hear from their constituents. Like how is certain legislation impacting them at their work? Or have you ever thought about deadlines? This one lady brought up one time, you’ve got this deadline for me to fill out this form and

X and X date and you turn around and have to have, we have to have another report done two months later and it’s just duplicating information. We’ll hear about six months later, they came back and they consolidated them. So that was kind of a nice win for that lady. I know she felt really that they listened to her, which was good. So we call those, legislative forums and we just bring the legislators in. We also bring our legislators in at the federal level for all our members at a luncheon.

Brandon Burton (17:13.195)
Yeah.

Janet Tressler Davis (17:27.702)
So we do that once a year. So we do our congressional reps. But for the smaller level, you know, we bring in our state reps. And I think that’s a compliment when members can bring their state reps in and they come and they want to participate. So that’s been a good thing. We also invite our local, like city council chair and school board president when we bring the legislators in.

Brandon Burton (17:52.674)
That’s good. It’s good for them just to hear the discussions that are going on and what is important to business owners, business leaders. You know, how can we create a more business friendly environment in our communities? And that’s the end goal. And, and as a chamber being able to convene those leaders and those thought leaders to come together in the same room and drive that conversation that hopefully is looking and finding answers. So you’re not filling out redundant forms.

Janet Tressler Davis (18:04.832)
Right.

Brandon Burton (18:22.708)
over and over and some of the more serious things that really do affect and hinder business. So it sounds like there’s been some good wins for sure as you guys have convened these business and advocacy councils.

Janet Tressler Davis (18:34.795)
Yeah, and definitely open the lines of communication too, you know, because for the legislators, you know, they’re hearing from different businesses and they can follow up with them and or say, hey, you know, come down and have a tour with us, bring your whole staff or, you know, bring your management team or things. And on the reverse side, I think our businesses then feel that connection where they can call. They might not get the legislature, but at least they’ll get their aid. So having, keeping those lines of communication open is really great.

Brandon Burton (19:01.022)
Absolutely. Well, and you mentioned when they reach out to you and talk about, can you endorse this, you know, whether it’s a candidate or an initiative or something that’s on a ballot, it means that they see that you have some some influence in in the outcomes of these elections. So that does speak volumes to the work that you guys are doing. So that’s awesome.

Janet Tressler Davis (19:23.706)
It’s not something you put that in writing and say, we think, but it’s just that you earn that respect. And I think that’s a way to notice it, I think.

Brandon Burton (19:32.494)
And it’s place where chambers belong. So hopefully if a chamber listening is not there right now, that’s somewhere to work towards for sure.

Janet Tressler Davis (19:37.322)
Yes.

Janet Tressler Davis (19:41.919)
And I know some smaller chambers in our state of Ohio have said, you know, we have a small staff, haven’t had, I just don’t have time to do this. And it is hard because if you only have one or two staff member team, it’s tough because it is a whole nother aspect. But if you can lean on your members to help too. So if there’s interest, oftentimes they can drive the agenda. Maybe you don’t have to set that agenda the whole time, or maybe you meet every other month, but to pull together a group of people to be able to talk about business issues.

impacting their business right today that it’s just invaluable, I think.

Brandon Burton (20:15.51)
Yeah, and that’s a good point for chambers of different sizes who may feel like, can’t take this on right now. How would you suggest they get started?

Janet Tressler Davis (20:27.176)
If you can talk about either to your board, your executive committee and find just two or three members that are passionate about it, that’s all it needs. Because that it’ll breed others. They’ll grow it, they’ll help sell it, but you can’t force it. So if there aren’t members that really want to do it, then it might not work. But that’s the same thing how we started our Women in Business Network is there was a few ladies and we talked about it. I said, would you guys think this would be a value? And they did. And then we just did like an informational meeting and it just.

grew from there. Same thing with our Young Leader Network, same thing there. So it’s, think for anything, if you have some members that are engaged and you, it’s not mission creep, I mean, it stays on your mission, that that’s a great way to get any committee started.

Brandon Burton (21:11.458)
Yeah, I think that’s great advice. Is there anything that we’re missing in the realm of these business advocacy councils that needs to be considered or things that you’ve learned over your career in having these business advocacy councils that could be beneficial for others to learn about and to maybe just be aware as they try to implement these?

Janet Tressler Davis (21:29.769)
Yeah.

Janet Tressler Davis (21:37.279)
Having an agenda, we call it a policy agenda, documented is really important. So those three areas that I told you that we track, the three at the state, three at the local level, we define what those are and we have them in writing. And then we, as a committee, did that. And then we present it to our board. And I do that every other year. And then when the board approves it, we’re able to take position on any issues that impact those areas, unless it’s a ballot issue. If it’s a ballot issue.

then we take that position that we’ve formed and take it to the board for their approval. But it gives you some leeway and liberty to be writing letters, know, letter campaigns and things, because oftentimes if there’s an issue, you need to get on it quickly because the vote’s coming, you know, in two days or four days. So you don’t want to wait and have to go to get board approval for every single thing. So that’s helped us. So a policy agenda. And then the next phase of our policy agenda says, if you do endorse an issue, what’s the procedure?

How much time do you have to give an advance notice of your board to give them the information to review it? You vote. And then what do you do with it? So if we’re supporting it, what’s our role? Do we serve on campaigns like levy campaigns? Do we help hand out signs? Do we do literature drops? How engaged should we be? And then what’s the post evaluation after the levy’s over to review what our role was and then whether it passed or failed, what could we have done differently? So that’s all in our policy agenda.

And I think having it documented that way when a member might bring something with you like H1V visas, for example, I that’s really important for some businesses that have international employees, but that hasn’t, that isn’t one of our top areas. And I’m not a lobbyist, no one in my office is, and there is only one person really working on it. And so we just have to kind of put some roadblocks on it to say, this is the areas that we track. So again, having it documented helps that explanation.

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Brandon Burton (23:35.79)
Yeah, I think that’s so smart to have procedures in place when you decide to endorse some kind of policy. That way, nothing is just running ad hoc. You actually have a procedure that you’re following where there’s order to it and you don’t get anybody trying to override the will of the chamber.

Janet Tressler Davis (23:56.828)
Right.

Brandon Burton (23:57.838)
I was curious with the letter writing campaign. So you’ve mentioned that a couple of times. So as those opportunities arise, are you guys providing maybe like key bullet points or full on script or just an overall message? Is there any mention of the chamber in there that helps garner the support saying, you know, the greater business community here in Westerville is behind this?

What, how is that formulated as you push the letter writing campaigns?

Janet Tressler Davis (24:29.618)
Yeah, probably I’d say 20 years ago, we actually invested in software that will help you. If you plugged in where you lived, it would populate who your representatives are. And then it would actually have a letter. If you put in the topic and things, it would have a letter that would write it for you. And we did that for two years. Yeah, mean, that was up, but it was expensive. And so we didn’t keep it up after that. And so

Brandon Burton (24:47.79)
Pre-AI, that’s cool. Yeah.

Janet Tressler Davis (24:57.681)
And we didn’t actually use it a lot, but we did. So now when we have issues, it is bullet points, as you’ve originally said. we just, there is our Ohio Chamber on their website is a place that you can go, or you can even go to like your state legislature and you can plug in your address and find out your state reps very quickly. So we don’t need a software to do that anymore.

So we try to put that link in so people can find that to find the reps if they don’t know who their reps are. sometimes people will say, know, a letter writing, is that really good? I mean, do they just get a bunch of letters? Well, if they get a whole lot of letters, they have something to say, hey, you know, we got 69 or we got 500 letters on this particular issue. Maybe they didn’t read every single one of them, but they know that there’s some kind of interest or concern out there with their constituents. So there is some value in it. And then certainly phone calls.

We do, we’ll try to call, they won’t, oftentimes our legislators don’t take the calls, it’s their aides, which are fine too, to at least express our interest or concerns.

Brandon Burton (26:02.17)
Yeah. Yeah. But if you can become good friends with with the representatives aid, I mean, you’re you’re in, get them on your side. But to your point with the letter writing, you throw out the number 69, you know, if they received 69 letters, that’s a whole lot more than zero, shows that somebody cares about it. And as a if they were to dig in deeper and see where they’re coming from.

Janet Tressler Davis (26:09.467)
That’s right. Yep.

Brandon Burton (26:26.306)
then I think they could see, okay, this is a chamber that’s driving this, this is a business community, it’s affecting a lot more people than maybe just the 69 people that actually wrote the letter. So I think there’s still a lot of value.

Janet Tressler Davis (26:38.436)
Exactly. And then our Ohio Chamber now will send us information on state issues and ask, you know, if you will take support on it. And sometimes they’ll have all the talking points. So if it’s an area that we’ve already addressed, you know, we don’t just do it for issues because they ask because they might not be in the categories that we follow. So sometimes we do, sometimes we don’t do it.

Brandon Burton (27:01.698)
Yeah, that makes sense. That’s fair.

Janet Tressler Davis (27:03.973)
And you know, the other thing you mentioned is some things that do’s and don’ts. There are some chambers that will endorse candidates and we are not one of them, but people can. You can, as a chamber, you can give money to an issue, but as a chamber, you can’t give money to a candidate unless you have a pack. And we don’t have a pack either. But you know, there’s pros and cons, of course, if you get some meat behind your…

issues and you’re supporting individuals and they win, you know, then you’ve got them in your back pocket. My fear always is if you don’t get behind the winning candidate, it could be kind of difficult maybe to deal with that city council for a while if they knew that you didn’t support them. But certainly every chamber is different and I bet you people have great reasons why they would support candidates. We just don’t.

Brandon Burton (27:54.508)
Yeah, and ballots never go 100 % your way. So just be aware. Yeah. Well, Dan, I think you’ve shared some very valuable tips. I like asking for listeners who are out there and trying to elevate their chamber to the next level. What kind of tip or action item might you share with them in trying to accomplish that goal?

Janet Tressler Davis (27:58.85)
for sure. yeah, exactly.

Janet Tressler Davis (28:18.982)
More advocacy specifically or any goal.

Brandon Burton (28:21.359)
It could be advocacy or anywhere, yeah.

Janet Tressler Davis (28:24.54)
Okay. I think a tip, one tip is never have your board chair surprised. I always try to keep my board chair informed, whether it’s an email or a phone call. You know, we might have a one-on-one, but then two weeks after that one-on-one something’s come up and you still have to tell them, then you still want to inform them. I wouldn’t wait. And I always feel that if I never want them to be surprised, I guess, because if they didn’t hear it, why didn’t I hear that from you first? You know, I’d feel terrible if something like that happened.

Brandon Burton (28:54.744)
Yeah.

Janet Tressler Davis (28:54.939)
So that’s one tip. And then I’d say the other tip is that I try to keep my door open as much as I can. So if a member comes in and wants to meet or wants to schedule a meeting, I try to always do it because it’s their organization, right? If it wasn’t for our members, I wouldn’t have a job. So that’s how I view the value of listening to our members.

Brandon Burton (29:21.708)
Yeah, I think those are two great tips. I’ve heard the tip about not surprising your board chair before. And there’s a ton of wisdom in that because I’m sure there’s more than a handful of people that have listened that are listening that maybe have fallen into that trap or their board chair was surprised by something and they’ve learned that lesson the harder way. So if we can save people that pain, we’ll, we’ll try to encourage that.

Janet Tressler Davis (29:46.223)
Yeah. For sure.

Brandon Burton (29:49.634)
Well, I like asking everyone I have on the show about the future. So as we look to the future of Chambers of Commerce, how do you see the future of Chambers and their purpose going forward?

Janet Tressler Davis (30:01.933)
One I think is collaboration, partnerships. There’s so many organizations out there. Might not all represent businesses, but even if you look at Rotaries, really not as equal as us. I mean, not the same, right? They are C3s, we’re C6, but they take people’s time in your community. And for example, we have two Rotaries, we have a Sertoma Club, we have a JCs Club, and then we have our Chamber, and then you have other organizations.

it within your library, like there’s friends of organizations. And so people are always asking you for you to volunteer. And so I think that ways of events that we do or programs that we do, or can we partner with some of those where you might align? You have your uptown organizations. A lot of us have uptown or downtown business organizations. You have your visitors bureau. Where is there some alignment there? And then when you look at the bigger picture of chambers, you know, some smaller chambers, is it a value to partner?

with other chambers. I don’t know, I merge, sometimes you could merge, but we do that as a expo. We come together with three other chambers in our area. And I think it’s great to do that because it gives your members an opportunity to expand their network. I mean, they come to business after hours and luncheons. Yeah, but it just gives them another couple miles down the road of other people they can network with. So we do that once a year with three other chambers, there’s a of four.

Brandon Burton (31:16.866)
Yeah, cross-pollinate. Yeah.

Janet Tressler Davis (31:30.69)
And we have a hundred exhibitors and we try to rotate it around so it’s closer to one community than another each year, right? So sometimes you have to drive farther to get to it. And then for our young leaders and our women in business, we’ll try to partner with like neighboring chambers to get together with their young leader or women in business group just to, again, expand their network.

Brandon Burton (31:52.812)
Yeah. And I can imagine as you do those, those more informal kind of partnerships with chambers, like the women in business and the expos, it’s also shining a little bit of light on your community or whatever community is, you know, it’s at, at that time where these businesses that show up. Yeah. These businesses show up and they’re like, you know, I never considered joining multiple chambers, but maybe there’s value in being a member here too. So, I think there’s value on multiple levels in collaborating.

Janet Tressler Davis (32:08.099)
Getting to host it, yeah. Sure.

Janet Tressler Davis (32:26.297)
Absolutely, just learning best practices from each other is so good. sometimes I’ll have board members say, have you talked to other chambers around, we have an I-270, a freeway roundabout. And I say, yeah, we do, because we get together every month and talk. So it’s just kind of good to compare notes.

Brandon Burton (32:44.61)
Yeah, that’s great. Janet, this has been great. This has been a lot of fun. I wanted to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for listeners who might want to reach out and connect with you and learn more about your approach. Where would you point them? What would be the best way for them to connect with you?

Janet Tressler Davis (33:02.81)
My email address is jdavis@westervillechamber.com and my phone number is 614-882-8917. I’d welcome a call or email. I will be retiring on October 30th, but I do invite people if they still think I can provide them any value or questions. My personal email is jtdavis4943@gmail.

Brandon Burton (33:28.046)
Very good. Well, we’ll get that in our show notes and I’m glad we were able to get you on the show before you were officially retired and be able to document some of your experience and knowledge. But this has been very valuable and I appreciate you setting aside some time to be with us today on the podcast. Thank you.

Janet Tressler Davis (33:46.521)
Thank you so much. It’s been great and I really appreciate it. And I’m sure everybody will agree with me, but Chamber World, Chamber of Profession is wonderful.

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Sane Center Media with Ed Sealover

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Brandon Burton (00:01.106)
Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your host, Brandon Burton, and it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community. Today’s guest is someone who brings both journalistic rigor and strategic insight to the world of business policy in Colorado.

Ed Sealover is the vice president of strategic initiatives for the Colorado Chamber of Commerce, and he’s the editor of the Sum and Substance, a news site he launched in 2023 to dive deep into the intersection of business and state government. Before stepping into his current role, Ed spent nearly three decades in journalism reporting for

represented outlets like the Denver Business Journal, Rocky Mountain News, and the Colorado Springs Gazette. His exceptional reporting earned him 140 state, regional, and national awards, including the prestigious title of Colorado Journalist of the Year in 2020. Now, Ed leads the impactful initiatives at the chamber, including workforce development and environmental sustainability through the chamber’s Climate Action Task Force.

Ed lives in Wheat Ridge with his wife and two children. He’s here with us today to share his insights on Colorado’s evolving business landscape and what’s ahead. Ed, welcome to Chamber Chat podcast. I’m excited to have you with us today. Love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the Chamber Champions who are out there listening and if you would share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better.

Ed Sealover (01:37.432)
Well, thank you, Brandon. I appreciate it. Hi again. I’m Ed Sealover, VP at Strategic Initiatives and editor for the Colorado Chamber of Commerce. I’ve been here since February, 2023. And in my prior life, it was not just a journalist for 28 years, but I’ve actually authored two books. One in 2011 called Mountain Brew, a guide to Colorado’s breweries. That was a look at all 101 breweries that were open in Colorado at the time. And then the 2016 book.

called Colorado Excursions with History Hikes and Hops, which is a 30-day guide to traveling Colorado, stopping each day at one historic site, one natural site, and one drinking site, what I like to think is the best of Colorado. So that’s what I do in my spare time. Travel, be a dad, and find great beers.

Brandon Burton (02:27.085)
That’s awesome. also drive tourism in the state of Colorado too with your book, right? That’s awesome. Right. That is awesome. Well, tell us a little bit about the Colorado Chamber, obviously a state chamber, but help give us an idea of

Ed Sealover (02:31.597)
I hope so, and certainly with all the trips I take, I drive in as well.

Brandon Burton (02:46.094)
size involvement that you guys are involved with staff just to kind of set the stage for our discussion today.

Ed Sealover (02:54.699)
Yes, thank you. The Colorado Chamber of Commerce, we have about 400 direct member businesses, but we also represent about 80 local chambers and trade associations. So we like to think we represent thousand plus businesses when we’re going out there and speaking on things. We have a staff of 15 people. So we keep it pretty tight and on budget.

and we, we do a lot in the state policy realm. That’s kind of where we play our part where we’re very active at the Capitol, in both, proposing and opposing and pushing, for certain pieces of legislation, and in regulations, we’ve gotten very involved in trying to make sure that state regulations are realistic in what businesses can do. So, we’re kind of a, a big policy wonk group here.

speaking for the businesses of state of Colorado.

Brandon Burton (03:52.316)
That’s great. you know, occasionally I’ll have somebody on from a state chamber here on the podcast. And I love to just have the reminder of what a great resource the state chamber, whatever state the listeners are in their state chambers, such a great resource.

for the individual communities, the regional chambers, just as that really the advocate to help understand what’s going on in the state level and keeping things aligned. So appreciate the work that you guys do.

Ed Sealover (04:22.317)
Absolutely. And again, we oversee the Colorado Chamber Alliance. So we hear directly all the time from our chamber members across the state. I’m often speaking to those groups as our other members here. And we understand that we can’t represent business without representing the small local businesses that are asking their local chambers for help.

Brandon Burton (04:42.236)
Yeah, absolutely.

Well, our topic for discussion today, we’ll spend most of our time talking about what I’ve termed this topic as a sane center media. So we’ve obviously got the left and the right focused media, you know, in the traditional media outlets. But when we talk chamber work, when we talk, you know, really moving the needle in communities and the things that affect business, really it’s aligning in the center and being able to see where the truth lies amongst

all the chaos that’s out there. So we’ll spend most of our time on this topic as soon as we get back from this quick break.

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All right, Ed, we are back. As I mentioned before the break, we’re talking today about Sane Center Media. I know you’ve launched something pretty unique, pretty interesting there at the Colorado Chamber. You want to tell us what that is and kind of what the origins for this?

I’ll say it, this new site, what it came from and what the dream was and how it’s evolved. you

Ed Sealover (05:48.141)
Absolutely. And thanks for asking about it. The Summon Substance is a website, tsscolorado.com. It’s free for everyone to see. That came about kind of from my decision in 2022 that I was done with journalism after two and a half decades in the field. I needed to move on to something and I wanted to do something a little more proactive as well, but I didn’t want to stop writing. And so I had

I had talked with the Colorado Chamber CEO. She was one of my best sources in covering the state house. And just talked about, what could a guy like me do? And she thought it would be a good idea to bring me on and to actually launch this site. And one of the reasons was, and I told her, if I leave the publication that I was at right now, they’re going to give up on the Capitol. though they didn’t right away, they eventually did pull out of covering the Capitol.

And I said, because of that, nobody is going to be covering the business issues of the Capitol the same way. So I suggested, look, if I come onto the chamber, I need to write a pretty detailed newsletter for the members. And Lauren Furman, our CEO, was the one that had the vision. She said, no, no, no, the heck with the newsletter. She said, let’s put up a website, because the website not only will allow our members to see what’s going on, but will allow policymakers to see and understand the business issues as well, because too often, and think this happens in every city,

media outlets focus on kind of the hot button issues. There’s guns, there’s social issues, there’s things like that. But we need people to think more about business issues and how that affects everyone even more so than these hot button issues do. And so she had the idea, we’re gonna put up the website, we came to the name Summon Substance to try to really show that this…

This shows every angle of what we’re trying to do here. And the one, I don’t want to say demand, but the one thing I said is, look, but if we’re going to do this and people are going to pay attention to is this cannot be chamber communications. This can’t be just PR on our side. We need to show both sides. And she said, yes, go for it. And so what it is, it is a

Ed Sealover (08:00.589)
a business policy news site and I admit I work for an interest group but as I tell everyone I try to write down the middle because I want people talking about business issues and this is the way to do it.

Brandon Burton (08:12.141)
I love that. The fact that it, yes, it’s sponsored by the Chamber, it’s a Chamber site, but not necessarily with the angle or the perspective of.

this is chamber, but just being right down the middle covering both sides. So when you talk about what are some of these topics that are important for everybody, not those hot topic things that make the newsreels all the time, but what are those things that are important for everybody that you see maybe drawing a little bit more attention on the site?

Ed Sealover (08:41.74)
We focus a lot on our state legislature. State legislature runs four months out of the year and it’s extremely active and they’re doing a lot of things with business. So we’ll go in there, I’ll go in there. I should say it’s me. There’s not the staff of people at the sum and substance. And follow bills really closely. Get stories out as soon as they’re coming about or as soon as we even see bill drafts to start the conversation on it.

and explain what it means to businesses. you know, sometimes that’s going to overlap with what other media outlets are covering. We had a big issue on property taxes in 2024. And everyone wanted to talk about property taxes. The difference was I focused a lot on how that affected commercial property and business property taxes rather than some of the residential taxes that most others focused on. And in a lot of cases, I’ll write about things that others may not be writing about.

of business regulations come up. have a legislature that is often looking for good reasons to help out consumers, but is looking to do it by raising regulations that are going to be problematic for businesses. just this past session, I focused a lot on a law that would have made it easier for people to sue over Americans with Disabilities Act violations, sue businesses, and what that would mean to it. Laws about

wage laws about unionization and making it easier to unionize. And then issues like artificial intelligence regulation that directly affect one sector of our economy, but really in many ways affected everyone who uses an artificial intelligence program in state of Colorado. And so I dive pretty deep into these in ways that I don’t think others do. And I always say, you know, in my last publication,

my editors would say sometimes, hey, cut it down. People don’t want to read a thousand words on this topic. Well, now I write about business policy. And so I write pretty long articles thinking if you’re coming to the sum and substance, you want to hear about business policy in depth. So we go into that. The other thing, I’ll be quick here as I realize I’m talking a lot, that I tend to cover are regulatory hearings. The way our state legislature works, a lot of times they set up a framework for

Ed Sealover (11:04.992)
how we’re going to do things like reduce emissions and what that means. And then we have regulatory bodies that decide how to do it. So our air quality control commission, for example, is very active in putting new restrictions on businesses that have emissions coming from them. And so I’ve spent a lot of time explaining what are the rules that they’re looking at, how would this affect them.

And hopefully trying to get not just businesses to hear about this, but the policymakers to understand businesses concerns as well. So anything that comes out of the state government or that affects a wide swath of businesses in the state is what I try to dive into.

Brandon Burton (11:43.356)
Yeah, as you’re given that explanation, I’m thinking, you know, when you see a commercial on TV for a pharmaceutical drug, you know, there’s the level one, you know, effects that, you you take this pill for this outcome.

But then you get the 90 seconds at the end of the commercial where it’s talking about all the potential side effects. And I think same thing when it comes to regulations, when it comes to different regulation that affects businesses. Yes, there’s the top layer. There’s the things that you’re trying to address, but then there’s all the secondary effects, the long tail effects that happen. And I see that as what you’re really getting into. How is this really going to affect business aside from what’s getting the headlines in the news?

as far as what that legislation, that piece of legislation is supposed to address versus how is this really gonna shake out for the average business and who’s gonna win, who’s gonna lose on this? Is that kind of an accurate description?

Ed Sealover (12:41.804)
It really is. you know, for example, we just had a special legislative session and they needed to close a budget shortfall. so they went after they being legislators went after a couple of longstanding business tax breaks and decided to roll them back. And a lot of folks said, well, look, if we cut this tax break, we can save a hundred million dollars and put that back into closing the budget shortfall.

And I would try to go in and say, okay, I will get into the nitty gritty here, but one of them, for example, was a tax break for insurance companies who have a certain percentage of their national workforce in Colorado. It’s called a regional home office tax credit. And legislators looked at it like, okay, we need to get this money back. And my story is trying to point out, okay, I see why, but understand.

that this is how insurers are looking at this tax break and this is what it could mean to Colorado’s insurance workforce at a time when we’re already losing members of that workforce to neighboring states like Nebraska and Arizona because the cost of living and the regulations are so much lower there. So those are the kind of things I try to put in perspective. Like yes, you may think about this, but here’s what it would have to do.

At the same point, I’m trying to explain to businesses who may just come to this and say, this is awful. You’re stealing my tax break and say, okay, here’s why the state is doing this. They don’t see it working for the following reasons. So it’s almost like trying to facilitate a dialogue between the policymakers and businesses about why these things are important, but always being sure to bring up both sides of that and to bring up what business concerns are. I think I tend to write about some stories.

that are broader with the here’s how it affects business angle because I don’t see that being out there a lot and that’s something I like to do to let local businesses especially know, hey, you may not be paying attention to what’s going on, but this is the direct impact on your company.

Brandon Burton (14:43.922)
Yeah, I see it as showing the other side of the coin. However, a lot of these issues, there’s not just two sides of the coin. get into it and it gets a lot deeper and more complicated than that.

Ed Sealover (14:44.723)
Yeah.

Brandon Burton (14:55.678)
So for the local chambers, the work that you’re doing out there in the state level, let’s tie it back to the local chambers. How can we draw attention to them to offer the support to them? How can they benefit from their state chamber doing something like what you’re doing with this approach? What’s your thoughts on that?

Ed Sealover (15:06.187)
Absolutely.

Ed Sealover (15:20.619)
There are a couple ways I think you could think about that one is and again if you go to TSS Colorado comm You will see that the stories are free and in local chambers just pick them off and put them in their newsletters I have a couple chambers that are just like what’s going on? Here’s what you need to know

So I like to think of it as a service that local chambers can pick up and say, look, local members, you want to know what’s happening, you know, especially, you know, we’ve got a wide state. If you want to know what’s happening six hours away in Denver, here is, here is something you need to know. So that’s, that’s a service to local chambers in that way. And the other way it’s, it’s a two way door. have really good relationships with a number of our local chambers, or at least I like to think I do, um, where they’ll call me up and say, Hey, you need to pay attention to this or.

I will call them and say, this sounds like they would hit your part of the state more than others. Tell me about it. So I’m, I’m understanding what they need to be watching at the Capitol and getting their voice into it too, because too often, and this is true of everything in Colorado, it tends to be a Denver centric focus. and, and, and this is a way of at least getting into a publication. Look, here’s what the folks in.

grand junction need or here’s what the folks in Durango need, things like that. it’s a way for local chambers to bring their concerns to the state level as well. And thirdly, we tend to use what goes on TSS as a blueprint, both I and our our SVP of governmental relations.

tend to do a lot of talks in local chambers about, here’s what’s happening. And this is a great way to be able to summarize it and say, and by the way, follow it here. So I guess think of it like an Associated Press newswire for local chambers as well. I may not be able to follow what’s going on with your city government, but I will be able to help your folks understand what’s going on at the state level and what they need to pay attention to.

Brandon Burton (17:13.438)
Yeah, now that’s.

That’s great. So I know on your website, it very much looks like a news site, but curated for business. I noticed you also have a newsletter, although the idea was to start with the newsletter and you guys were like, no, let’s do a website. But it looks like there’s both, right? So is that pushing out the news stories or how does that work?

Ed Sealover (17:29.451)
Yeah, basically the newsletter. Yes, yeah, I mean, because I don’t expect people who are busy running businesses to be checking in every six hours to see if I have a new story up. So the newsletter is you sign up for the newsletter and every three stories that I put out, I’ll put out a new newsletter saying, here’s what’s going on during the legislative session that could come once a

Brandon Burton (17:42.334)
Yeah, and I love that you make it available.

Ed Sealover (17:53.312)
day that you’re getting a newsletter in the off season like it is now that may be every week to two weeks thankfully but yes that’s a way to make sure that people are informed too of what’s going on.

Brandon Burton (18:09.542)
local chambers can pick off certain stories or topics that you’re covering and bring it to their local awareness. Are there other ways that a local chamber can maybe piggyback on the efforts that their state chamber does like this? I know from an advocacy point, just to be able to lean on the state, just what are your thoughts around more of how the local chambers can.

can really piggyback and lean on the expertise of the state chamber.

Ed Sealover (18:40.349)
You know, it’s a great question because I don’t think in most cases, local chambers can expect to do something like this. We have deeper resources than most local chambers just because we have a statewide base. So yeah, I mean, just kind of picking it off is very helpful. But I would say for local chambers that are hearing this saying, boy, I wish I had that service.

Brandon Burton (18:48.635)
Right, if they’ve got one staff or a couple staff, yeah, yeah. So.

Ed Sealover (19:03.315)
it may be something they could as a group go to the state chamber and say, we are not the first state chamber to do this. This was an idea that the Kentucky Chamber of Commerce put into play a number of years ago. We do ours a slight bit differently, but it’s something that local chambers could work with state chambers to say, look, we need this lifeline to know what’s going on.

Now, maybe in other states, the state government isn’t quite as active. I know there are some states where they meet once every two years. And so it’s not quite that pipeline that’s necessary. But in some states, it’s a year-round proposition. I think local chambers teaming up with the state government to say, hey, how could we support you doing this kind of reporting back to us is something they could think about as well. And even in a sense,

Knowing that if you go and you cover these things in a fair way, people will talk to you. think local chambers could even think about establishing more of a partnership, if you will, or more of a relationship with local governments in that way. If you have a local government that is very active in setting forth regulations, just sending someone to attend their council meetings and writing things up.

and saying, look, we’re watching, is a good way for local chambers to kind of raise their voice in this too. And if you cover these things fairly, I think you actually grab the attention of local policymakers more and say, hey, I saw this story on it. I appreciate that. Let’s talk about this more often. So it’s not just the chamber reacting to what’s going on, but being proactive and saying, this is coming. How do we get people involved in the conversation?

Brandon Burton (20:44.853)
Yeah, and I’ve seen local chambers take a topic and then host a

podcast or webinar or town hall or something as a platform to be able to say, let’s talk about this further. Like obviously there’s feelings on both sides, there’s perspectives on both sides. Let’s hash this out and kind of get to the bottom of things. So I like that just, you know, as a, your perspective, you’re able to draw attention to these things. And then on the local chamber level, if they want to dive deeper or if they want to go in with their local government to be able to share their perspectives

or cover something on the fair and center, you know, the centric way. I think that’s a great model to follow. Given that you do the reporting on the what I call the sane center, you know, it down the middle. It is still news that is still reporting. Do you get feedback one way or the other? I don’t know the primary audience. Is it just chambers and your business members or is it the community at large?

Ed Sealover (21:48.907)
It’s interesting, the primary audience, I think started out as our members, but as I mentioned, if it’s just an internal echo chamber, you don’t really do anything with this. And so I’ve noticed more and more state groups or state representatives, senators, their offices are signing up to get this now. And then a lot of other policy groups, both those are in the business space and those that we sometimes clash with.

Brandon Burton (21:49.504)
What do you see? Right. Good.

Ed Sealover (22:18.926)
are actually signing up to get this now too. I’m hoping that is a way to open dialogue with them. We actually have cut a couple of media partnerships as well. We have one newspaper, The Gazette, which circulates in Bethanger and Colorado Springs, that will pick my stories up because it took them about a year watching it and said, you’re doing this journalistically.

And we don’t necessarily have the staffing to cover every business nuance like you do. So we’ll literally pick the story up and put it out there. And so that’s been a good audience growth too. I think it’s also helped some folks who normally would clash with the chamber, the Colorado chamber on issues to say, he actually is doing this fairly. This is not chamber publicity. He’s trying to educate people on it. And so to go back to your question about

Who’s the primary audience now? I guess primary audience is anyone who is a businesses Because as I mentioned we always focus on what is this going to do to business and be anyone who is concerned with business policy? The idea that you may be involved in policy. Maybe it’s tax. Maybe it’s regulation Maybe it’s it’s economic development incentives anything along those lines that may impact businesses We hope people are reading it to say even if they’re just saying

hey, what’s the other side saying right now? At least they’ll be able to understand that and see and incorporate that into our discussions going forward.

Brandon Burton (23:49.842)
That’s really cool that the Gazette and these other publications are picking up the stories and recognizing that you got some real street cred. they’re taking it and running with it. So that’s awesome. Yeah, I was curious with how polarized certain news topics can be. Now, I don’t know if you’re covering housing or child care, if it gets super polarized one way or the other, but covering it from the business

business first kind of lens. Do you get voices that come at you from their polarized point of view of how can you cover it this way? I’m just trying to get my mind wrapped around what’s a reception like from those that are on the complete opposite ends of the spectrum.

Ed Sealover (24:41.424)
It’s, it’s a good question. I think I have the luxury in that if you’re not a thoughtful person, you’re not going to tune into a website that’s writing 1200 words about a policy. so the reception is, it’s generally pretty good. I don’t have people that are writing in like corporate blah, blah, blah, blah. They’re, you know, they’re, tuning in to see, wait, why? And are you doing this? And then there were people who say things like, I don’t buy this, you know, you you, published a

Brandon Burton (24:50.856)
There you go. It’s a great point. Yeah.

Ed Sealover (25:11.262)
hole from somebody who we think is not a legitimate source or here are some of the faults with it. You’re quoting someone who we don’t like. There’s always going to be that. the general reception is, you know, here’s what business is thinking, but here’s what we need to highlight also. I have groups that I I refer to in general media as

Brandon Burton (25:23.706)
Sure.

Ed Sealover (25:39.886)
liberal think tanks who will call me sometimes like, hey, do you want our thoughts on this? I have one particular environmental group I have a good relationship with where the executive director who is often sitting on the opposite side of bills from the Chamber of Commerce government relations team calls and say, hey, do you want my thoughts on this regulation? So I think the reception has been that some groups have looked at this and said,

I want to make sure my voice is in here. want to make sure that if this is going out and it’s already talking about what businesses want, because I’ve got great access to businesses so I can get their voices in there all the time, we get our voices in there too. And so I’m thankful for that. I think it furthers the conversation. And it took time. I will say this, in 2023 when this launched,

I would put in calls to groups like that that went unreturned. And I think that’s fair. If you say, I’m with the Colorado Chamber of Commerce publication, they’ll be like, why on earth would I want to talk to you? But I think they’ve seen my commitment to trying to bring this out over time. And so I think that also furthers the conversation. And to be truthful, to kind of work in some of the other things I do with strategic initiatives, I oversee our environmental sustainability task force here.

Brandon Burton (26:32.124)
is new.

Ed Sealover (26:52.521)
We’ve been able to, one of the goals of the task force was to get business and environmentalists at the same table rather than shouting across the room at each other and talk about what sustainability policies are realistic and how we can work together to clean up the environment. And we’ve been able to bring in some of those groups to talk with us, to talk about how we move forward on this. And I’m not going to say that’s a direct link to the sum and substance. Those are kind of two different hats I wear there.

but I don’t think it hurts when they, when they can see, like, we actually want to hear your opinions. We may disagree with you, but we care about your voice and we’re looking for that way to find a compromise.

Brandon Burton (27:27.336)
We care about your voice.

Brandon Burton (27:34.232)
Yeah, I think your point is well taken when there’s not the hot button bits, you know, that can be shared out on Twitter X or, whatever platform people are on, but it has to be more of a thoughtful read to be able to go through and see the research and the effort that’s been put into whatever the topic is. But then to have, you know, those different organizations reach out and say, would you like to know our opinion? Of course. Yeah, let’s bring all voices to the table.

Ed Sealover (27:58.674)
Yeah.

Brandon Burton (28:00.724)
and let’s find the best solutions, right? So that’s awesome. I love hearing that. Well, Ed, for those listening, those chambers listening who are wanting to take their chamber up to the next level, what kind of tip or action item might you share with them in trying to accomplish that goal? Yeah.

Ed Sealover (28:18.941)
Well, I was thinking about this. I want to step back a little bit from just talking about the sum and substance. And I want to talk about how the sum and substance works into our greater vision. We put forward a statement. was, I should say, we being the chamber before I got here called Vision 2033. And this is something I would recommend for any chamber is lay out a vision statement for the next 10 years of what the chamber stands for. Because this is a comment I’ve heard repeatedly is that

We want to be a part of where you’re going because we see what you want to do. It’s not just the chamber is reacting based on members. It’s not just we are seeing things and saying no or yes. We’re saying this is what we’re going to do and this is how we’re proactively going to achieve it. And so for any chambers listening, I would say if you haven’t thought about and this goes beyond just the mission statement. Mission statements are great because they tell in the very short form.

why people should pay attention to you. But larger statements and Vision 23 for us is, it’s about a 50 page report about here are the four areas we are going to concentrate on over the next 10 years, including areas like housing and workforce development. And that’s actually allowed me, one of my other hats as an initiative is to be very proactive in workforce development. How do we work with the state to improve a system that frankly isn’t preparing

Colorado students for the jobs that are looking to hire them right now. So this is something we didn’t just react to. We worked with the state, with a number of other organizations to put forward a five-bill workforce development package not long ago in 2024 and pass it because we said this is the positive steps we need to take. So that’s a long way of saying for other teams who listening, think about

proactively what you want to do and what you want to stand for. Lay it out in kind of, even if you’re worried it’s too detailed, but very detailed form and then other organizations will see you and want to jump on based on that because they know you’re not just yes and no, you’re about the bigger picture and how we move toward it.

Brandon Burton (30:30.554)
I love it. The proactive versus reactive chamber is going to make all the difference. So being proactive is going to catch more of that vision and having your members and community recognize the visionary leaders that you are. So I always like asking people that I have on the show as we look to the future of Chambers of Commerce, how do you see the future of Chambers and their purpose going forward?

Ed Sealover (30:57.265)
I think chambers need to be on the front line of what is an increasing battle over a question that bothers me, is business a good thing? I think we are seeing more and more of this trend toward business is bad and that comes from both ends of the political spectrum at this point. On one end, saying socialism is good and on another end, they’re saying we don’t trust business anymore.

and chambers need to be out front in showing what business is. Chambers need to be out front and showing business is that mom and pop restaurant you go to down the street when you want to sit with your friends and complain about business. you know, business, business is, is not a, a, you know, an amalgamation of things that, works itself into big business and business is awful. It is the individuals who

Brandon Burton (31:39.23)
You

Ed Sealover (31:56.719)
employee people. It is the individuals who work at those companies. And I think chambers have to stand up and always emphasize that. We try to do that when we are testifying for bills or going into things and saying, look, I know what you’re looking to do here, but if this costs people their jobs, that’s business. That’s business losing because people don’t have jobs anymore.

I think chambers need to be out front representing themselves, not just as a place where people can get together and talk and socialize and meet and network, but as a place where the community can see this is business, this is our community, and we need to safeguard business because they are ours.

Brandon Burton (32:40.412)
I that’s a great response. They need to have a place to sit and gather and complain about business. that’s great. Well, Ed, this has been great having you on the podcast. I wanted to give you an opportunity to share any contact information with listeners who may want to reach out and connect with you or to follow The Summit Substance. What would be the best way to have them reach out and connect with you?

Ed Sealover (33:06.446)
Absolutely. Again, the Summon Substance is tsscolorado.com. If you’re interested in what’s going on in Colorado or just interested in how I’m doing this, sign up for the newsletter. Again, it goes out every three stories. So try to keep people involved there. And I’m happy to talk to people directly if you want to talk about business issues or if you want to talk about how to do something like this. My email is

eclover at cochamber.com. That’s E-S-E-A-L-O-V-E-R at cochamber.com. My phone number is 719-659-7907. And you can hit me on LinkedIn too, under Ed Sealover as well. But happy to talk about this project and happy to talk about business issues for anyone who may be interested.

Brandon Burton (33:59.838)
Perfect, I’ll make sure we get all that in our show notes for this episode to make it easy to find you and connect with you and for people to check out this platform that you’ve developed. This is really something pretty cool. I’d like to see more state chambers get on board with this because it is such an incredible resource for the local chambers and to really push good business advocacy. So thank you for sharing your experience and what you’ve developed and really just how it’s working for you guys there at the Colorado Chamber. I appreciate it.

Ed Sealover (34:28.048)
No, thanks for doing what you’re doing, Brandon. This is an important thing to let Chambers know how they can prosper as well. It’s an important thing that I realize. I love my relationships with local Chambers and anytime the state and local Chambers can work together, that’s when business is really succeeding.

Brandon Burton (34:48.824)
Absolutely. Well, thanks a lot Ed. This has been great.

Ed Sealover (34:52.389)
All right, thank you.

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Membership Value & ROI with Joe Venhuizen

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Brandon Burton (00:17)
Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your host, Brandon Burton, and it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community. Our guest for this episode is Joe Venhuizen. Joe is the Vice President of Membership and Resource Development for Envision Greater Fond du Lac. Envision is a combined chamber EDO.

Serving the greater Fond du Lac County in Wisconsin, Joe has spent nine years in the industry working in membership sales, program coordination, government affairs, and executive leadership. Joe earned his IOM certificate to the U.S. Chamber in 2025. He is a husband and a father to three boys and an active member of his local church.

Joe, I’m excited to have you with us today here on Chamber Chat podcast. I’d love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the Chamber Champions who are out there listening and to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better.

Joe Venhuizen (01:18)
Sure. Well,

it is a pleasure to be here. So thank you for having me on and look forward to a good discussion. I never shy away from the chance to discuss the industry. It’s one of my favorite things to do and especially with people who actually understand it. You know, I imagine you can be a bit of a bore at Thanksgiving. That’s what I come off. know, people just kind of go, well, you work for the government, don’t you? Or you know, there’s not an understanding of where we are and what we

we do. And so to talk to people who live this, it really energizes me. So yes, my name is Joe. been, I’ve lived in this area of East Central Wisconsin. That’s where I grew up. Aside from education and a couple things that brought me out of the area, I have always been here. So I grew up on a, tell me if you heard this before, I’m a dairy farm kid from Wisconsin. So family farm,

Brandon Burton (02:09)
Are

there many of those? No. Just kidding.

Joe Venhuizen (02:10)
Yeah, it’s fitting the mold here. I’m a Packer fan. I’m wearing the gear here. I’m excited for Sunday to take on the Lions. But

I do bleed green and gold in Wisconsin. I love where I’m from. But I’ve been in this industry nine years. And I have no plans of going anywhere. I see nothing but exciting challenges in my future doing what we do.

You wanted something interesting. something interesting. I’ll tell you this year, earlier this year, I became an official small business owner myself. And that sounds pretty cool. The reality is it’s not that cool. But I did get an LLC. And I formalized under an LLC some things that I’ve been doing for years, which is improv comedy.

Brandon Burton (02:44)
Okay.

Joe Venhuizen (02:59)
So I now have an official business for my improv troupe and we do short form sketch comedy for corporate parties and gatherings and fundraisers and things. So something that I’ve enjoyed doing for many years.

Brandon Burton (03:13)
That’s very cool. So I I love asking that question. I never would have known that about you if I didn’t ask for the interesting fact about yourself. So that’s cool. You’ll have to put up your tour schedule here at the end. yeah. Yeah. That’s right. That’s fantastic.

Joe Venhuizen (03:22)
Here you go.

Yeah, Private bookings only, you know, pay for travel costs. I’m happy to, you know, advertise it on your podcast here.

Brandon Burton (03:37)
I know what you mean about Thanksgiving dinner being the board. When people find out I have a podcast, they’re like, ⁓ that’s so cool. What’s it about? it’s chambers of commerce. Like, what? Yeah, so yeah. Well, tell us a little bit about your chamber. Just give us an idea what Envision Greater Fond du Lac has to offer, size, staff, scope of work, budget, just to set the stage for our discussion today.

Joe Venhuizen (03:44)
Yeah.

Yeah,

we’re all in about a $2 million organization. We are a combined Chamber of Commerce and Economic Development organization. That combination happened in 2017. So I joined the industry and the organization before the merger. So I was hired as a Chamber membership and program person. Within my first year, we had the merger that brought together the Chamber and the Economic Development.

We serve a county that’s roughly a hundred thousand population. We are in the county seat and ⁓ most of our membership base is in the county seat, which is the city of Fond du Lac. But Fond du Lac County has three cities and various villages and townships. It’s pretty rural. Our big industries here are agriculture and manufacturing. The congressional district in which we sit, the Wisconsin sixth

congressional district is the leading manufacturing district in the country. So we have, we are home to the world headquarters of Mercury Marine, which is the leading producer of marine outboard motors. And there’s a ⁓ hefty supply chain with that and neighboring in the region, we have quite a few manufacturing titans in that industry. So that’s a lot of who we service. And then of course, agriculture and

and your standard ground of the mill, all the different industries that Chambers serve. So we have experienced the pains and the joys of merging those two organizations and what it takes to create a new brand and to really have the inner working between servicing existing business needs through Chamber of Commerce services and advocacy and also still working.

under the same strategic plan intent on economic development and business attraction retention and entrepreneurship and workforce development. So it’s been, it’s been very, very good. I always advocate that more organizations look at these opportunities seriously and check egos and really consider what’s best for the business community that you serve. Because a lot of times there is duplicity and there’s

know, competition for resources that it took quite a while for our organizations at that time to make this leap of faith to do this together. But now standing and looking back eight years later, it’s definitely been a success.

Brandon Burton (06:21)
Yeah, that’s great. So how many staff do you guys have between the combined organization? Okay.

Joe Venhuizen (06:26)
We’re at about 14 total. And my role oversees our chamber

operations, and that’s ⁓ a team of about four of us. And then there’s operations. We have one CEO, obviously, my boss. And then our economic development and workforce development team forms the other pillar.

Brandon Burton (06:45)
Very good. Yeah, that’s super helpful for us to just understand where you’re coming from as we enter into our discussion today. So we’ll focus the majority of our conversation on the topic of membership value and ROI, which I know it can be a hot topic for pretty much any chamber out there. So I’m excited to dive into that topic and to get your feedback and your experience on this as soon as we get back from this quick break.

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All right Joe we’re back so as I mentioned before the break today we’re talking about membership value and ROI How do we express that to members potential members? I’ve shared before on the podcast my background is in chamber publishing so Oftentimes I’m interacting with chamber members as a third party and They feel like they can open up to me in that in those scenarios

and they’ll be honest, you know, I don’t feel like I get anything out of my chamber. don’t see, you know, I paid membership dues and I never heard from the chamber again, you those sort of things. So how do you approach expressing membership value and ROI as you interact with your members and potential members?

Joe Venhuizen (09:53)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, if any of your listeners have the right answer on this, you know, in 10 seconds, please chime in. But this is going to constantly be the measure that we use for ourselves is how well are we delivering value or communicating value. One of the things that’s been helpful for me in years of doing this, in annual renewal cycles and understanding the types of members who come and go and then those who stay and why they stay.

is really the way, the type of mindset that a member brings to the organization. The reason for joining is as important to understand at the time that you are interacting with a new member as the way you communicate ongoing. Because if you understand the type of member and the type of value they’re looking for, you can understand

whether they’re going to be long-term or whether this is going to be a, I’m in it for now for me. And then when the me part isn’t working, I’m out. We have done a decent amount of effort recently at Envision in changing some of our language and our materials to reflect more of a fundraising or investor mindset than a member mindset.

And where we are focusing a lot of effort is this getting into a mindset of a long-term relationship, not that there’s a sort of knee-jerk reaction that’s asked for on an annual basis. Did I feel like this year I did enough to get value that I can write one more check, but to really start the relationship off from the bat of this is a movement?

that you’re joining for the long term. And there will be peaks and valleys. There will be times when you need more attention from the business community and the services we offer. And there will be times when you’re off and running the business. But that doesn’t mean that we’re going to be stopping and starting and breaking off relationship. This is both of us working towards success in this region together for the long term.

Brandon Burton (12:11)
Yeah, so years ago I had a friend of mine, he’s a realtor, he reached out to me, he had moved to a new community.

He’s like, Brandon, should I join my local chamber? He’s like, I know you do this podcast about chambers. Should I join my local chamber? And of course, my, my, you know, knee jerk reactions, of course, you know, but I was a little more measured. My, depends, you know, what are you trying to do? What, like, what’s the mission of the chamber there in your community? What kind of committees do they have? How can you get involved? Like, what do you want this to do for your business? It’s not just that.

that magic bullet where you pay an annual membership due and all of a sudden your business is thriving, right? Right. So very much, going back to your, you know, your thought about figuring out the why, why are they joining and what are they trying to get out of it. That’ll help guide those conversations. My thought is going towards how about those members that need to justify their membership to somebody higher.

Joe Venhuizen (12:53)
Yeah, all your problems are solved.

Brandon Burton (13:15)
you know, a regional manager or somebody at corporate or, know, something like that. How do you have those kinds of conversations and help them to, to recognize what the chamber does for them so they can continue that conversation with those that they answer to? Right.

Joe Venhuizen (13:17)
Yeah.

Yeah, that’s a tough one because my answer is almost always, well, who do I need to be in the room with? Because

let’s get to the naysayer, the person who is sort of just evaluating this on paper and not really in the context of a conversation or a true understanding. So those can be really difficult, getting through those local

folks on the ground who say, I got to run it up the chain of command and go, well, let me help you. Let me be part of that conversation. It’s often a good thing. But I think that there’s always mindset shift. And in those critical kind of crucial conversations of, are we valuable enough to use

expense on, right, to invest in. I think that that’s the opportunity to communicate differently. It’s not the time to rattle off the benefits menu, you know, that, well, we do this, we do this, we have all this. It’s really, when you’re in those conversations, it’s really opportunity to pause and to say, what are your goals? You know, what is it that you want to accomplish? And

really get the playbook because people will teach you how to sell them. And when you’re able to get them to communicate, well, here’s what I’m looking for. So your realtor friend, you know, looking for connections in a new area, I just want to meet new people, right? Well, that’s easy. You know, here’s the things, you know, but what your realtor friend may not care about is

all of the work we do with the local school districts in bridging the gap between local industry and future workforce. And, you know, that might be a huge part of what we do. It doesn’t matter to me. Right. So don’t spend any time talking about that because I’m lost. I don’t care. You can fundraise that from other sources. Here’s my problem that I’m looking to solve through your organization. So you need to get the keys to how to sell and you get that from the member who’s considering that value.

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Brandon Burton (15:16)
Right.

Yeah, I guess I’m thinking of those members that they’ve they’ve joined maybe they’ve been a member for a year or two.

Joe Venhuizen (15:38)
.

Brandon Burton (15:41)
And because so many businesses now are operating off of data, which we preach to chambers too, Collect data, make data-informed decisions. they collect the data. They’re looking at their books. And they’re like, OK, justify this to me. How does this make sense? And like you said, who do I need to talk to to help relay the value? I think that’s key. ⁓

Joe Venhuizen (15:54)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

We’ve got to tell stories

really too, Brandon. We have to be able to communicate our wins and then how they apply. you know, I think we get very head down in the chamber industry on, you know, we have this annual schedule of events and monthly schedule of events and, you know, this long list of to-dos and there’s a lot of whirlwind there. But when we get significant wins for the community,

those you just can’t move on from those to the next event. You have to be constantly reminding, sometimes ad nauseam, like, here’s what we accomplished. And I’ve talked, you know, it’s eight years post-merger for our organization, but I don’t want anybody in our community to forget how significant that was. And for people who are maybe newer in the business community here, they might not know any better or any different.

But I like to remind them of what life was like before the merger and how significant just being here and being an efficient organization is. And that goes down to resources. Your resources invested in this organization are maximized much more than what they were previously because of this big win. You could have been getting much less value because you’d been writing two checks to two organizations that were both trying to do the same thing. Now we’re doing it all here.

So it’s one example, but eight years later, I can still communicate that to certain businesses who are legacy businesses who’ve been here a while that, know, yeah, you’re right, you’re right. This could be a lot. You the other thing is any time you have advocacy wins, any time that you’ve helped with a business expansion, relocation, an entrepreneur startup, any time the Chamber’s been involved, even, you know, advocating for an infrastructure change that’s small.

I it was Pat McGoy, who’s a long time, know, titan in the chamber industry, tells kind of an anecdote about if the chamber advocates for a stop sign, use that one project, right? Just one stop sign and then try to put numbers to it. So for the business that’s right there, what does this mean for you? So if that one, you know, stop sign,

leads to, and I can’t remember how in this example, but if it leads to more impressions or more traffic that is stopped at your business with visibility, by the numbers, is that 1 % more? that 10 % more? And then what does that mean for your bottom line? So for your million dollar industry, what’s 1 % of that? And then how do you quantify the results of advocacy wins?

I haven’t done a lot of that, but that was something that made me think a lot. Anytime that you have a, you know, a business park expansion or a win on your main street. For example, we advocated for highway expansion that tied our community to the county to the east. And by expanding that road from two lanes to four lanes, naturally it’s much safer. It’s much more efficient for.

Um, you know, for daily drivers, also for the, you know, businesses and freight over the road. Um, there’s a way that you can communicate that to businesses of, different industries that this is valuable and it wouldn’t have happened without our advocacy. So, you know, trying to get them out of this mindset of like, okay, the only thing that matters is customers that walk through my door and go, no, no, no,

It’s not the only thing that matters because that’s influenced by a lot of different factors. And here’s the way that we’re pulling levers on those factors.

Brandon Burton (19:32)
Yeah, I love that. And just the whole idea of the value of being able to tell the story, whether it’s talking about the merger or the recent advocacy wins.

Joe Venhuizen (19:35)
Thank

Brandon Burton (19:42)
I mean, I think every chamber out there is going to have at least a healthy handful of examples of just individual members who have been members, you know, the whole time that their business has been around and, you know, why they stick with it, why they, you know, wins that they’ve seen as the chambers been able to be influential in their business to, again, help increase that bottom line. So being able to kind of create a storybook of sorts that you can go back to and pull from and

Joe Venhuizen (19:57)
Mm-hmm.

Brandon Burton (20:11)
Depending on what the scenario is who the person is you’re talking to to pull from these stories these experiences and say well this is how it worked for ABC business and You know, it’s similar to yours So I actually I had an experience just yesterday with a business owner who was new to this community and She had been a business owner in a previous community for a long time

like 30 years, she had a retail shop and she just moved to this new community, opened a new business. And she said, you know, in my last community, I was a chamber member. And after so many years, I stopped because, know, whatever the reason is, as you come across somebody like that, obviously they had an experience, they gave it a try. It was a different chamber, different community, different state even.

How can you help build the trust for them to give your chamber a chance to be able to help their business? Is there a way of trying to save that or to help them recognize the value? I’m sure the storytelling comes back into that, but how would you approach a situation like that?

Joe Venhuizen (21:05)
Thank you.

Well,

you have to remind people that every chamber is a unique and different organization. And when you have folks that bring past experiences.

It’s just hard to compare apples and oranges sometimes. But what I try to ⁓ remember is, and there are examples of this in my years in the industry, that a really good practice to get into is to invite your critics. Invite your critics to dinner. Some of the best volunteers or board members

that we’ve recruited have been those who have been trying to drop, right? They’re trying to leave. saying, you’re not valuable. I don’t get anything out of this relationship. And instead of writing them off and saying, you just don’t get it. You’re not worth it. You weren’t investing that much anyway. If you really take the time to swallow the pride, the ego, you go, know what? You’re probably right. Let’s talk about that. Why don’t you come in?

I had a volunteer, right, sorry, I had a ⁓ member of our young professionals organization who after one year hadn’t gotten outreach. We really did fail her. She hadn’t gotten outreach or hadn’t attended an event, didn’t feel like, you know, she belonged. At the time of renewal, she could have just not said anything, but she took the time to write me an email, a scathing email, right, a scathing critique on her way out the door.

Brandon Burton (22:40)
That says something. Yeah.

Joe Venhuizen (22:43)
You guys failed. This was horrible. And again, I could have pitched it in the trash and said, okay, or I could have done the halfway, which is, yeah, I guess we really did kind of screw up. Shoot, that’s too bad. But I went one step further and said, sounds like you’d be a great member of our membership outreach committee. You’ve identified a real need in this organization and we need leaders and it sounds like you could do it. And today,

Brandon Burton (23:04)
I love it.

Joe Venhuizen (23:10)
She’s the chairperson of the whole organization for the young professionals. And she’ll tell that story. It was on her way out the door, but somebody actually confronted her and said, yeah, you’re right. And we could use you to get better.

Brandon Burton (23:25)
I love that.

Great example. And tie in in that storytelling right there. That’s perfect. I encountered a similar situation with a guy that owns a bar and like a brewery. And he was very much against.

the chamber and you know the chamber tried for years trying to get this guy to join. He came from corporate world and he’s like don’t see where we need this and through the persistence they got him to you know come to I think it was a mixer or something to begin with just as a non-member just come you know try it out and now he’s the board chair at this chamber. He’s all in and so it’s I love hearing stories like that love it.

Joe Venhuizen (23:40)
Mm-hmm.

Brandon Burton (24:09)
Anything else come to mind as far as expressing the value and really that ROI to businesses as they either go through their experience with the chamber or contemplate joining or renewing membership with the chamber?

Joe Venhuizen (24:25)
Yeah, I think

it’s more philosophical for me. It’s real big picture stuff of you get yourself in no win scenarios when you really try to justify it on the terms that they present. Because a renewing member may, like we said earlier, may justify value only as, I’ll give you one example. We had a Main Street business who said, I’m dropping my membership because

I didn’t see enough chamber gift certificates that came in the door spending money at my bakery. Exactly. And it was, I would need to see at least, you know, a thousand dollars in chamber gift certificates for this to be worth it. Now, those are the terms that he’s defined for this discussion. That’s the value that he’s defined. You have to get out of that language, those terms and present it on a different battlefield.

Brandon Burton (24:58)
That one metric. Yeah.

Joe Venhuizen (25:17)
which isn’t always easy, but that’s really how you have to get the mindset shift to go, well, that’s one metric. You know what? We maybe weren’t honest with you, sir. We probably should have told you that you’re organization is going to help you. But here’s what we are doing. Are you aware of this? Did you know how, you know, did you know how this this proposal at City Council that almost passed would have impacted your your tax bill or your assessment? And the chamber fought that you probably didn’t even know. Good thing is you didn’t have to know because we’re on your side. We’re advocating on your behalf for things that you’re not even paying attention to. Right. So getting them out of this this way of evaluating value and then getting over here. And a lot of it is, yeah, it’s those advocacy wins. It’s the big initiatives that we’re doing and then not being ashamed to continue storytelling on those wins. And, you know, I said I’m a dairy farm kid. You got to milk them. You got to milk it for everything it’s got, right? Once you get an accomplishment, don’t let it sit on the shelf. Keep bringing it back and leverage it for ⁓ membership renewals as often as you can.

Brandon Burton (26:29)
I love that. Great analogy. Malcolm. Well, for the chambers that are listening,

Joe Venhuizen (26:30)
Yeah.

Brandon Burton (26:34)
Most of them are going to be interested in taking their chamber the next level, growing, expanding. What kind of tip or action item might you share with that chamber who’s trying to take it to the next level to try to accomplish that goal?

Joe Venhuizen (26:48)
It’s a good question. I think that if you’re listening and your chamber is not involved in advocacy and government affairs, you need to figure out how you can carve out a slice of that game because you owe it to your business community. Our organization pre-merger between chamber and economic development, our chamber was very active in

Brandon Burton (26:58)
you

Joe Venhuizen (27:12)
in advocacy and government affairs. During the merger, there was a fear that because our economic development organization had some public investments coupled with private, that we would be in a bad situation if we were trying to do local advocacy while also relying on public funds. And I won’t say that that isn’t a real factor.

But the result was we shelved advocacy. We got out of the game completely. And it only took a couple of years before we lost influence and we had a big missed opportunity for local development because we didn’t have an established enough advocacy voice to be able to influence this issue. And so it woke us up and it got us back to the table.

We reestablished a legislative agenda, reformed an advocacy committee, and have thrown a bunch of time and energy into it. And we’re yielding the results. Because again, we’ve said it, when it comes to ROI, that’s the trump card. For a business that can never show up to an event, can never be bothered to read an email, there is always, when you have a good, strong advocacy arm, there is always the argument that we did this, you benefited.

You didn’t have to show up just by existing in this community. You’re a beneficiary of this advocacy work that we did. And we think it’s worth at least a small amount of your annual continued investment. So I think that, you know, for chambers that are scared of it, there’s a way to do this in a very easy, non-controversial way, just to become the location where conversations happen.

You can do legislative forums where you’re just inviting in officials with the business community. You’re not taking stances. You’re not advocating positions. It’s an easy way to just get started. But I think that if you’re not doing anything in this advocacy sphere, you’ve got to get at the table.

Brandon Burton (29:04)
Yeah, I love that tip and it plays in very well to our discussion today too.

I talk about it being that Trump card that you can always go back to and you know, if you can get into the micro things for each individual business, but when you’re missing on those accord or you’re not, you know, really hitting it home for that business, you always can lean back on that advocacy card. I love that. I like asking everyone to have on the show as we look to the future of chambers of commerce. How do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Joe Venhuizen (29:27)
I feel like.

That’s another good question.

I think that Chambers of Commerce will continue to remember who they are and

The core of why chambers were started was to be a functional tool on behalf of a business community to accomplish more together than what businesses can on their own. I think as, you know, time goes on and chambers take different avenues and some function more in a tourist or some are in, you know, other areas, it sometimes becomes a

Well, let’s think about this organization like a business and how do we maximize our profits and keep our, people. I think that sometimes gets into a myopia and you’re really just looking down and you’re not thinking and remembering, okay, wait a minute, wait a minute. We’re a tool for the success of all of our businesses. The fear I have is the same thing that the internet did to Chambers when it became prevalent, which was now you have a platform outside of your local chamber where you can do a lot of the connections and the exposure and you don’t need to stop into the chamber office for a map anymore, right? These sorts of things that made chambers valuable. I fear that AI will do the same thing to a lot of the services or benefits that we now provide. And that can crush a chamber that’s not forward thinking or it can just challenge all of us. And so what I mean by waking up and remembering what we’re here for is the value that we provide in an increasingly automated AI culture is, and also in this fragmented political culture is we’re the sane people at the center of issues. And we are the people that know how to have conversations and to bring variety of opinions to the table and come out with results. We’re positioned for that. We’re here to represent businesses, but we’re also in touch with the public sector, nonprofit education, all different industries. We know how to get people to a table in the middle. And that’s something that you can’t automate. So remember how we’re uniquely positioned. And I think that that’s going to be the future of Chambers. just going to be continuing to be the trusted resource in the middle when you’ve got a lot of artificial things that can’t be trusted along the fringes.

Brandon Burton (32:04)
Yeah, totally agree and to be able to understand that core because technology is going to change everything around us. But if we’ve got that core and why we exist and then employ different tools around that core.

Joe Venhuizen (32:14)
Mm-hmm.

Brandon Burton (32:19)
I think that’ll keep chambers relevant in the center of trying to bring some sanity to both sides in long time in the future. Well, Joe, before we let you go, I wanted to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for listeners who may want to reach out and connect with you and learn more how you guys are doing things there at Envision. ⁓ Where would you point them? What would be the best way to connect?

Joe Venhuizen (32:26)
Definitely.

Yeah.

Yeah, we have an easy name, Envision with an E, Envision Greater Fond du Lac. So you’ll find us, if you Google us, we’re online, EnvisionGreaterFDL.com. I’m a phone call guy. So if you want to get a hold of me, just ring me up. My phone number is listed on the website, but it’s 920-921-9500. I’m the only Joe in the building, so you’ll get to me quick. But I would love the chance to talk with you on the phone. I welcome anybody to call me and discuss ideas or book your next improv comedy show.

Brandon Burton (33:11)
That’s right, get that plug in there.

Joe Venhuizen (33:13)
Thanks.

Brandon Burton (33:16)
We’ll get that in our show notes to make it nice and easy for people to find you. But Joe, I appreciate you spending time with us today here on Chamber Chat podcast and sharing your perspective, your experiences when it comes to membership and expressing that value. I know it’s something that we constantly need to be thinking of and building that story bank that we can go back to whenever we need to to be relatable to those businesses that we interact with. So thank you for sharing your insights with us today.

Joe Venhuizen (33:18)
Thank you.

You bet. Thank you for the work you do. This is so important to people challenged in the industry and thinking ahead and thinking futuristically and also just for giving us some of the ideas for how to storytell. What you do is the same thing that we should be doing on the topic what we’ve been discussing. We’ve got to get better at getting the word out and not just in an annual renewal letter.

Brandon Burton (34:08)
Yeah, big fan of Chambers podcasting. I’ll just put that out there. So, all right. That’s right. Thank you, Joe. I appreciate it.

Joe Venhuizen (34:13)
We’ve got a whole lot of time. Thank you.

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Small Business with Tom Sullivan

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your hosts Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

Our title sponsor for this episode is Bringing Local Back. Remember when your community could turn to a local TV station or newspaper for the latest updates and affordable ads? Those days may be fading, but the need for local connection remains. That’s why we created Bringing Local Back, a game changing platform that restores the local visibility and advertising power to your community. It’s more than just tech. It’s about driving engagement and creating new revenue for your chamber. Ready to see the future visit bringinglocalback.com to schedule your demo today. This is the future of local commerce.

Our guest for this episode is Thomas Sullivan. Thomas is the Vice President of Small Business Policy at the US Chamber of Commerce, working with the US Chamber’s nationwide network. Tom harnesses the views of small businesses and translates that grassroots power into federal policies that bolster free enterprise and reward entrepreneurships. He also runs a US Chamber Small Business Council, engaging those members on a regular basis to increase Small Business input and involvement in chamber initiatives. Tom’s advocacy career spans from creating Legal Center at the National Federation of Independent Business to General Counsel at the Bipartisan Policy Center to building the innovative lending platform Association. Tom received unanimous Senate approval to serve as SBA Chief Counsel for advocacy at the George W Bush administration, and remains active in the bush Cheney alumni network. Tom and his wife live in Virginia and are blessed with two teenage sons. Tom serves on the board for the Global Entrepreneurship Network and is a graduate of the Chamber’s four year Ioan credential program. Tom, I’m excited to have you with us today here on chamber chat podcast. I’d love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the chamber champions who are out there listening, and to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better. Well. Thank

Tom Sullivan 2:37
you. Brandon, hello all the chamber chat listeners, it’s great to be with you today. Let’s see something interesting about me. Well, you know Brandon, when you and I were chatting about the day that this podcast will air, April one, not only is it April Fool’s Day, but it is a day that is forever etched in my memory and pain in my lower back, because I have significant structure in my lower back where several of my vertebrae are fused together, and that was done on April 1, a long time ago, so I’ll Never forget that day. It is certainly something interesting, yeah,

Brandon Burton 3:22
and hopefully it’s improved your life since then,

Tom Sullivan 3:27
it has, definitely has. I can, I can, I can use both legs regularly. So yes, it’s, it’s, it worked. That

Brandon Burton 3:35
is a good improvement, for sure. Yeah, well, Tom usually I have the guests tell a little bit about their chamber size, staff, budget, scope of work being at the US Chamber, why don’t you instead tell us a little bit more about your role with the US Chamber to kind of set the stage for our discussion. Well, Brandon,

Tom Sullivan 3:54
thank you. So first of all, I am a little bit biased, but I do have the best job at the United States Chamber of Commerce here in Washington, DC. The reason it’s the best job is I get to spend every day talking with folks who are probably listening to this podcast local state chamber leaders as well as their small business members. Now I get the added benefit of taking what I learned from all of those wonderful folks and advocate before Congress and the White House, but I truly think it is the best job, mostly because I get to talk with small business owners every day.

Brandon Burton 4:29
Absolutely, I can totally understand why you would say it’s the best job in the world. That’s I love working with chambers for that very reason, they’re the ones that are dealing with people that are on the front lines with, you know, putting bread on the table, so to speak, for families across this country. Well, for our topic of conversation today, we’re going to spend the majority of our focus on small business on the local and the national scale. And. And bringing in some of your expertise, some of the things that you’ve seen, and some things that you may see on the horizon as well, with regard to small business, and we’ll dive into this as soon as they get back from this quick break.

Joe Duemig
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Rose Duemig
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Joe Duemig
App My Community helps the Evergreen Area Chamber of Commerce to create an app that keeps tourists informed, even when their office is closed, they provide 24/7 access to local business information, which helps support the local economy and community engagement.

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In Rocky Mountain House, we helped Rocky Chamber create an app with dynamic itineraries and digital resources for tourists, increasing local business engagement. The app has become an essential tool for the community, promoting events and boosting visibility for local merchants.

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Rose Duemig
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Joe Duemig
Schedule a demo today AppMyCommunity.com. We can’t wait to meet you.

App My Community creates mobile apps that allow you to engage directly with your community. Enhance chamber membership by providing a unique advertising and communication channel to residents and visitors. Not just a member directory, App My Community has the tools to be useful to residents on a daily basis. Learn more at appmycommunity.com/chamberchat.

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All right. Tom, we are back. So as we turn our focus today on small business, on the local and the national scale, I know your focus is on that all the time, but what are some of the things that you see as you, as you interact with chambers across the country, as you, you know, pay attention to the needs of small businesses. What are those things that are top of mind right now, things that to be paying attention about? To be fair, we are recording this in in December of 2024 so by the time this comes out in in April 2025 we may see a little bit of a different climate, but at this point, how do you see things, and what are those things that are top of mind? Well,

Tom Sullivan 9:10
thank you Brandon, and thank you also for letting the listeners know that here in December, while we’re awaiting president elect Trump to take office, there is some uncertainty, and I’m sure that by April, all that uncertainty, you know, smooth sailing, but, but seriously, there are some things that will certainly still be front and center on the radar as your listeners are listening right now. Probably the thing that has been on every small business owners radar for close to three years has been inflation. This has been the the strongest headwind for small business growth for three years and. There certainly have been proposals to reduce inflation and whatever those proposals are, small businesses are going to be the largest cheerleading section, because it it has been a wet blanket on growth for small businesses that have been anxious for that growth to take off for some time. So solutions to inflation are front and center for every small business in the country, and most of my job is trying to look at small business policy through the lenses of growth, and that means through the lenses of those policy solutions designed to reduce inflation.

Brandon Burton 10:45
And that is such a hot topic, for sure. And even as this is released in April of 2025 inflation is not one of those things that you can just turn a dial and it’s fixed right. There’s, it’s a it’s that small steering of that ship, that that makes those, those changes. And some of this gets done on the, you know, the advocacy front. Some of it is, you know, when it comes to importing and exporting and where these goods are coming from, and there’s a lot that plays into the cost of goods, right to Yeah, what we look at with inflation, but for sure, on the local level, for the local chambers listening, is there, are there things that they can do to whether it’s to help with inflation or or to put minds at ease of their members and help them to navigate their way through the uncertainty with with inflation. Well, let’s, let’s

Tom Sullivan 11:45
start first hit on your your question about, How do they help? And I just want every listener to know how important it is to show up. And I don’t mean just show up was switching on the zoom camera or picking up the phone. I mean, coming to Washington, DC and having your voices heard. I mean, this is something I do every day. And you know, it’s nice when lawmakers are sick of seeing my face, but every time a small business owner comes from the district that has elected this member of Congress. Every time they go into the office. That’s what makes a difference. I mean, the best lobbyist I have ever met, and I’m saying that with full acknowledgement that my wife is a lobbyist. So the best lobbyist I have ever met is Yasin Taru from Knoxville, Tennessee. He owns a falafel shop, and he comes to Washington, DC, and, you know, he gets the selfie pictures with with members of Congress and all that stuff. But then when the member of Congress sits down and the staff around them take out their notepads and pencils. He says, Look, he starts locally. Hey, when are you going to, you know, you said you were going to have some federal money to rebuild that bridge. Like, how’s that going? Where’s the progress? Because I haven’t seen the construction trucks pulling up yet. And and the member of Congress looks at the staff member and says, okay, yeah, we got to follow up with that. And then Yaseen generally, then goes on to tax policy. It says, Look, you know, some of these tax provisions really have to be made permanent, because it helps me and it helps millions of other small businesses around the meeting ends, Yasin goes home to his beautiful family, and then it’s up to me and my colleagues at the US Chamber of Commerce, along with the colleagues of chambers all over the United States, to make sure that there’s follow up capitalizing on that local small business owners advocacy. And I could tell you, Brandon, it makes a huge, huge difference. Every Yaffe in Toru who shows up in a member of Congress’s office, is worth 20 times when I show up. Yeah, so the magnifying impact really, really does make a difference. And now I know that small business owners, you know, they gotta make enough profit at the end of the day so that the lights can get turned on the following day, and they’ve got to make enough money so that food does get on the table of their employees. So it’s hard just to pick up and go to Washington, DC, but I can assure every small business owner it makes a difference, and what makes an extra difference is when they talk with their local chamber first, make sure they get their message down so that they know what the ask is that will help them as a small business and will help the entire community of small businesses that honestly, they’re representing when they make that trip to Washington, DC.

Brandon Burton 14:57
Yeah, and I see you know. All the time, these chambers that do their Washington DC fly in and, you know, maybe bring some of their people from their board, who are these business owners, and be able to present their voices and concerns and what their needs are. And I know not every chamber has the ability to do that, but there is strength in numbers. So the more, the more that show up and can plea that case and hopefully be in line with each other too, so you don’t have one chamber contradicting what another saying, right? Well,

Tom Sullivan 15:29
you know, we we do more to just have folks come and and speak their mind than we do worrying about whether or not everyone is on the same page. One small business owner has a different view of how their business can grow, and the federal incentives to make that happen, it’s not going to be so different from another. Growth is primarily the main talking point, and small business owners know what it means to grow. They know what it it means to grow as an economy that actually bolsters the America as a superpower instead of making it weaker by adding deficit. So we don’t worry that much about exact messaging. We worry mostly to make sure that our representatives are speaking through the lenses of growth, to their their policy makers. And I should also at least acknowledge you don’t have to come to Washington, DC. Every member of Congress has local district offices. And when they’re when they come back home to the voters who elected them, they want to visit with small businesses. Not only is it a great photo op, but it is also great from a Chamber of Commerce’s perspective, that that small business owner gets the undivided attention of the elected leader through the entire visit. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 16:54
that’s a good point. So a couple times now you’ve mentioned looking at things through the the lens of growth, or presenting things from that that perspective, and as I think of these, a lot of the lawmakers, they’ve they’ve been in politics their their adult life, right? They, a lot of them have not run and operated a business themselves. So is there any maybe best practices on how to communicate through that lens of growth that can be relatable to those that they need to relate it to? Well,

Tom Sullivan 17:24
what a great question. The answer is yes, there is some advice. So first of all, the advice is, be who you are. Don’t try to be a lobbyist from Washington, DC. Don’t try to be like the most caught up on the latest scandal of the hour. Just be who you are and tell your story and practice your story, either with your loved ones or your local chamber leader, and have them ask questions the way that a member of Congress would I love telling a very recent story that happened. We have been already aggressively meeting with Congress to promote the pro growth aspects of tax policy that are set to expire at the end of 2025 Our campaign is designed to make those provisions permanent, so that at the end of 2025 all of a sudden, small business owners don’t wake up with an enormous tax bill that they didn’t expect. And we brought in a local small business from Bucha, Arizona, who sells hay, alfalfa, if you want to be more specific. And he was wonderful. He was meeting with Dave Schweikert, who is a member of Congress, who serves on the tax writing committee, and and Dick Cardo, who’s the owner of Cardo hay company. He said, you know, all this, this whole discussion of taxes, is just so complicated, and it’s this is awkward for me as a small business owner, I don’t really know what to say. All I know is, for the past five years, I have been saving a little bit every year in order to buy this piece of machinery that bails hay and puts the hay on my truck in a way that I don’t have to because I’m getting older and I can’t do it anymore. And, and the congressional staffer looked at dick and said, Oh my gosh, that like, that’s the example we’ve been looking for. Yes. And he said, Where are you gonna buy this equipment? He said, Oh well, you know, I, my friend down the street, sells this particular piece of equipment, we’re going to get it there. And so all of a sudden, Dick is just telling his story and what he’s been doing, which is saving some dollars at the end of every year, which is made possible through some tax deductions that are set to expire. Not only is he saving that to spend it. He’s spending it for his business to grow, and he’s also spending it at a neighboring business that will allow them to grow. And so the reason I tell you that story is sometimes we make it too complicated, and it’s as simple as telling your story that connects your local experience with a national policy that is designed to promote growth, and that’s what Dick did. And I’ll continue telling that story to anyone who will listen. What

Brandon Burton 20:32
a great example. And you know, sometimes there’s sometimes government can get in the way of that growth, and we want to be able to take down some of those barriers, eliminate some of those things. And for him to say, I’m trying to save a little bit each year to make his job easier, but be more productive, to help his business, help others. And then, as you’re explaining this, the whole thought of inflation creeps back in here too. I mean, that ties right back into it when he’s saving a little bit each year, but that little bit is less than is less and less each year because of that. So it all. It all plays into it. So does it. Does wonderful example. Is there anything that local chambers can do to help with their their members, maybe to put their mind cities or to to help them carry on, you know, through a lens of growth that will allow them to maybe not focus on the the negative effects so much of inflation, but continue to look at opportunities to grow and control what you can control and and maybe encourage others to help you in the other areas,

Tom Sullivan 21:43
there certainly are ways that local chambers can learn from each other, perhaps learn from you and me and others. You know. One of them is Institute. You know, the Institute of organization management, otherwise known as Institute or IOM. I’m a winter Institute graduate down in Tucson, Arizona. You know the networks and learnings that all Institute graduates benefit from carry on for the rest of their professional lives. And when you’re struggling with something all of a sudden, you have this immediate network of other chamber professionals who hopefully are listening to this podcast. And that does provide comfort, it does provide certainty, and it does provide paths forward. The other thing to do is to recognize that that the relationship with the US Chamber of Commerce is intended to be a two way value proposition, and the access that our 1600 local, state and regional Chambers of Commerce have who pay a small amount in order to be part of that network. Their value is gained from getting the regular insider information about what’s going on, and then we encourage those local chamber executives to share it with their membership, so that that connectivity, which really chambers are famous for because that’s what we basically do. At our core, is we connect people work. We’re the community connectors, and the more that we can lean into that connectedness, whether it’s through IOM Institute or whether it’s from being part of what we call the Federation, sounds like a Star Wars term, but really it’s just a term that is assigned to this incredible network of both trade associations and local, state and regional Chambers of Commerce. So just leaning into that connectivity, I think, diminishes some of the fear, some of the uncertainty, and does create some really long, lasting bonds.

Brandon Burton 24:03
I think that’s great advice. And anybody who I know has been through the IOM program would would echo that. And in fact, it’s often a action item that that guests will share with others, is to build that professional network and to to have those peers that you can lean upon and in the, you know, the US Chamber, even to lean upon. Well, what other what other things come to mind when you go about your work with focusing on small businesses and that, that lens for growth, what what other things are top of mind for you at the moment?

Tom Sullivan 24:39
Well, you know, one of the things that is constantly top of mind are the day to day challenges of small business owners. I mean, I’m lucky to deal with national policy issues, so tax, health care, regulatory policy, those types of things are within my remit. But you know, what about. About choosing a payroll provider? What you know? What about finding an inventory management system? All of these things that are, are the that that are worries, concerns, and, quite frankly, opportunities at a small business level, the US, Chamber of Commerce, traditionally never really addressed those daily needs until COVID, when COVID hit, this desperate need for information was absorbed by our then new CEO, who was a small business owner herself, Suzanne Clark, and she heard this thirst, she felt this thirst for practical information, and we responded by launching a small business digital platform. It’s called co CEO, that digital platform is designed to answer these questions that small business owners have that are daily challenges, and the greatest thing about CO is that the answers come from other small business owners. So how do you choose a payroll provider? Well, there are stories on this small business digital platform called CO that interview a small business owner, and that small business owner tells how she chose a payroll provider or manages a supply chain or how they could figure out how the heck to hire a really good employee like these, these things that keep small business owners up at night are answered by their peers through this digital platform that is available for anyone, and Our local and State Chambers of Commerce are certainly taking advantage of it by by embedding the CO platform into their communications with their members, and it is open to anyone who has a good internet connection. And I’m just really happy that now that COVID is in our rear view mirror our commitment to answer daily questions and challenges small businesses face continues to be a priority. I think that that has to do in a large part because our CEO is Suzanne Clark, is a former small business owner, but it also is an example of how we saw something, we built it into our new muscle memory, and we’re committed to continue it long term.

Brandon Burton 27:46
Yeah, that is that’s a great example and great resource. So if the chambers listening have not been utilizing co I’d encourage them to check it out and see where it makes sense to implement it with your members, and, like Tom said, embedded into your communications, because it sounds like a wonderful resource. Well, Tom, as we start to wrap things up here, I wanted to ask for the chambers listening who may be wanting to, you know, take their chamber up to the next level. What kind of tips or action item might you share with them to try to accomplish that goal. Well,

Tom Sullivan 28:23
I’ll go back to my friends at IOM and Institute in the Federation. You there is a chamber of commerce accreditation process, and those five star chambers around the United States are the best of the best, and that means that that process isn’t easy, but I’ve never heard a five star chamber saying, Wow, that was a heck of a waste of time. I mean, the other way around, we hear like, you know, I had no time for it, and it was hard. But now that we got our accreditation, it was worth it. And I think the chambers that are looking to go to the next level should look very seriously at the Chamber’s accreditation program and see if they can jump in with both feet,

Brandon Burton 29:18
and even if, even if they’re not awarded with a five star accreditation. It’s a good refining process to go through the exercise and see where you where you stack up, and where you can find areas to improve and be more efficient as an organization. Well, Tom, as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Tom Sullivan 29:41
So Brandon, in this digital world we live in, I think there’s an even greater need and appreciation for the convening power of chambers. Now we we have the luxury now of convening in a multitude of ways, but it’s still convening. Yeah, um. And whatever flavor that takes. I do think that the power of networks that are made possible through the convening are actually at an all time high. I say that also with the realization that for the past five years we’ve had record breaking new business starts, and that means there are all these new small businesses looking for connectivity, looking for network opportunities, virtually and in person, and chambers of commerce are uniquely situated to capitalize on it.

Brandon Burton 30:37
I love that, the idea of the power of the networks. I’ve heard a quote before, and I can’t attribute who I heard it from, but talked about digging your well before you’re thirsty, you know, you make those contacts, you have that network built. And then when there’s a need there, you’re not trying to develop those relationships right then in that moment, because you already have them, you can send out that message and say, Hey, I need help with this, you know. And you know those contacts who can help you. So great, great piece of advice and and way to look forward with the future of chambers, I wanted to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for listeners who may want to reach out and connect with you and maybe learn some more about what you have to offer in terms of a small business support. Where would you point them? What would be the best way to connect?

Tom Sullivan 31:27
The best way is through LinkedIn. Under Thomas Sullivan US Chamber of Commerce, you’ll you’ll find my LinkedIn profile. I tend to lean into LinkedIn a little bit more than some other social media platforms. I find the the dialog a little bit more respectful on on LinkedIn than some other social media platforms. But if, if those other social media platforms are your are your thing, my handle is smallbizpatriot, and that’s probably the easiest way to get me.

Brandon Burton 32:00
All right, we will make sure to get that in our show notes for this episode as well, to make it easy to find you and connect with you on LinkedIn. But Tom this has been great having you on the podcast. I really appreciate you taking some time to be with us today and to share some of these insights and and like you said, the the lens for growth. I love that, that perspective, and that’s really the way every chamber should be looking at small businesses in their community, is through that lens for growth. What can they do to help remove obstacles? What can they do to help create that network to allow for that growth? And this has been a valuable conversation, so I appreciate you.

Tom Sullivan 32:38
Well, Brandon, right back at you. I appreciate you, and I certainly appreciate all of the chamber executives who are listening, and in particular because of the great work that they do for their small business members.

Brandon Burton 32:53
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Small Business Passion with Peter Guzman

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your hosts Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

Our title sponsor for this episode is Bringing Local Back. Remember when your community could turn to a local TV station or newspaper for the latest updates and affordable ads? Those days may be fading, but the need for local connection remains. That’s why we created Bringing Local Back, a game changing platform that restores the local visibility and advertising power to your community. It’s more than just tech. It’s about driving engagement and creating new revenue for your chamber. Ready to see the future visit bringinglocalback.com to schedule your demo today. This is the future of local commerce.

Our guest for this episode is Peter Guzman. Peter currently serves as the president of the Latin Chamber of Commerce in Nevada. The Latin Chamber of Commerce is the most powerful Hispanic Chamber in Nevada, with over 45 years of community work and business representation. The Latin Chamber of Commerce has provided services to the community for over 45 years and continues to grow. The Latin Chamber of Commerce has been a beacon of light for the community and is a shining star of hope for those in need of assistance throughout the community. Peter is also an accomplished realtor, small business owner and real estate investor, and he came to Nevada 50 years ago at the age of two, but Peter, we’re excited to have you with us today here on Chamber Chat Podcast. I’d love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the Chamber Champions who are out there listening, and to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better well. Thank

Peter Guzman 2:05
you for that incredible entrance. I appreciate it very much. It’s amazing to hear that number of the length of years this chamber has been involved. We’re approaching 50 years now. It’s unbelievable. And my founder, Otto Merida, did an incredible job a long, long time ago, and I took over as president after him, but so thank you for that. That intro something interesting about me. I don’t find myself that interesting, I guess. But something that people don’t know is that I love turtles. I mean, I really love turtles. And I’ve, I’ve had a desert tortoise now with me 24 years, and I just love that turtle to death. And, yeah, that’s, I guess that’s interesting.

Brandon Burton 2:52
That’s, yeah, that’s cool. I actually, I had a pet turtle growing up, and it was just a box turtle, but whenever my brother would get upset with me. He’d go in my room and put the box turtle on top of its jar that had its water So stand up there and couldn’t move it, just sit on top of the jar. He’s like, thanks. Thanks for that. Yeah. No, I’ve been a big fan of reptiles my whole life, so that’s cool. Well, tell us a little bit more about the Latin Chamber of Commerce, give us an idea of the size staff, scope of work, budget, just to kind of set the stage before we get dive into our discussion today.

Peter Guzman 3:31
Yeah. So you know, like I said, our chamber is approaching 50 years, 48 to be exact, but we’re approaching 50 and, you know, predominantly we represent the Hispanic community, but because of the strength and growth of our chamber, we’re representing a lot more than just that, right? And so that was something that was intentional. I wanted non Hispanic businesses to be doing business with Hispanics and vice versa. And so we’ve really accomplished that, especially over the last three years, 30, 32% of my growth over the last three years has been non Hispanic business owners. That’s a really great number, and very intentional. Because again, I want business to be conducted and I want business to grow, and the only way you can grow is sometimes you got to go outside your comfort zone. And so, you know, we have, we have over 2000 members. We are a statewide chamber and and like I said, we represent the incredible small business community, which, in my opinion, is the most important segment of our economy representing the most job creations and and just just the whole plight of a small business owner, and we know how difficult that can be, and so we predominantly focus on that. We’re very, very focused. So that’s first and foremost, of course. Dollars because we’ve been around so long, and my founder ultimately did such a great job building a trust with the community. You know, we have to get involved in a lot of other things, you know. So we’re we have people that show up at our lobby that need help with immigration, or, you know, what hospital they should be going to, and all kinds of things that you wouldn’t believe. So our responsibility at the Latin chamber is much bigger than than a lot of chambers who just focus on on the small business community. We have to focus on even more than just that, because the demand is so big and the trust is so so high with the Latin chamber that inevitably, my day is filled with all kinds of things, so I’m grateful for that and and look forward to our future.

Brandon Burton 5:49
Yeah. So being a statewide chamber, how many staff do you guys have? And are you Where are you physically located? Are there multiple offices, or how does that work? Yeah.

Peter Guzman 6:00
So we’re physically located in Las Vegas, and we have, we have about eight people on staff and about four volunteers, and you know, there’s definitely room for more employees, but we got to be the right employees, and we’re going to look at that in 2025 because we’re just bursting at the seams. As far as other offices, we’re in Reno a lot Carson City is our you know, is where it all happens. As far as politically. So we always have an office there during this legislative session every two years. But stay tuned. The next time you and I have an interview, there’s going to be a lot more news regarding that. Okay,

Brandon Burton 6:44
build some anticipation there. I like that. Yes. Well, for our topic of conversation today, we’re going to focus on the small business passion that Peter has. It really drives the work there at the Latin chamber, and we’ll dive in deeper on that as soon as we get back from this quick break.

Joe Duemig 6:26
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Brandon Burton 8:40
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All right, Peter, we’re back, as I mentioned before the break, we’re focusing our conversation today around small business passion, and I hope everybody listening has a passion for small business. But when somebody says that that’s that’s always your focus, that’s always your topic, that that is your passion, I’m always curious to dive in deeper, to hear what drives you, what motivates you? And I think you’re you may have alluded to it a little bit just with the the novelties of the the Latin chamber, that it’s more than just the small business community, but it’s the community in general you guys are focused on. But what is your approach? What gets you so excited when it comes to small business and serving that community.

Peter Guzman 11:03
Well, listen when you think about, first of all, I’m very, very grateful for, you know, having been born in America, the greatest country in the world. I say that because my father escaped communism of Cuba and came here and, you know, simply because he knew that his children will have a chance here. And so that’s kind of where this beginning passion starts, right like this is a country where a person can dream about owning their own business and can really pull it off. It’s not an easy road, but certainly that’s why I’m passionate about it, because Nothing excites me more than knowing about folks that take their pension or their savings and starts their business and, you know, one day, starts it off, and you know, three years later, they’re on their second or third location, or they’re on, you know, they went from one employee to five, then to 15. We have those stories. They’re very common in the Latin chamber. And I just, I don’t, you know, it’s hard to pinpoint why that, why that drives me and turns me on so much, but it just does. It’s just, it just does. And I also, because I’m a business owner and struggled in the beginning, I know what that struggle feels like. So I know the struggle, and I know the success of it, and I want everybody to that, wants that, to feel that. And so that’s why I’m so passionate in this position at the chamber where I can actually pick up the phone, make some calls and make things happen for folks, maybe a little quicker, maybe get them through an obstacle a little easier. That’s what really drives me again. My founder and mentor told me who ran, who opened this chamber and ran it. He said, What good is the power if you’re not using it to help others? And so that’s really the power of the chamber. Is the ability, if you do things right, to be able to pick up the phone and make things happen a little quicker, maybe a little easier. That drives me every morning.

Brandon Burton 13:19
Yeah, I love that. I love just the idea of the American dream and being able to create a business and have it grow and be successful, and with you being a business owner yourself, to be able to relate to the members that you’re talking to, to the potential Chamber members, and being able to resonate with them, I think that’s super valuable. Yeah,

Peter Guzman 13:38
and listen, you know, I like what you said in the opening there. Even if you’re not a small business owner, your life’s affected by a small business owner. I mean, every time you get in the car, you need that car to run. So chances are you’re going to, you know a mechanic, or you know a small business owner that that works on cars. We can start with that. Then when you need, when you need milk, you you may not run into the big grocery store. You may just stop at a little place and grab a gallon of milk. So small businesses is is intricate in our day to day life.

Brandon Burton 14:16
Yeah, I would say small businesses that it’s kind of the, backbone to our, our ecosystem, to our, our ability to be able to function as a society and and we saw it through the pandemic where small businesses got shook pretty hard, and those businesses you might have counted on, you know, reliably that that mechanic, or, you know, the the convenience store, whether They change their hours because of, you know, staffing issues through the pandemic, or whatever it may be, that disrupted their normal day to day operations. We felt it as citizens that are trying to carry on with our life, and it throws you for throws a wrench in your schedule. When, when that stuff happens? Yeah,

Peter Guzman 14:58
and, I mean, we haven’t even two. That’s the pandemic. I mean, the you know what I knew, what I already had, had experience and known. You can multiply it by 1000 during the pandemic. I mean, the the fact that business, small business people, have to pivot every day in normal society, because life changes. Consumers, needs and wants change every day. So you good business people know they have to pivot and and meet those needs, right? Uh, imagine during COVID. I mean, we were thrown such a curveball, and yet, especially in the Hispanic community, I saw these entrepreneurs pivot and figure it out. And, you know, I’m almost embarrassed to say that even during COVID, our our we are actually our chamber grew, first of all, which is unbelievable, because we delivered things that they needed. We pivoted. That’s what my mentality is. I’m a small business owner in the chamber is a business and and we pivoted. And that’s why we had success, even through COVID. But that’s, that’s, that’s how it is, that how that’s how it works. That’s right.

Brandon Burton 16:09
And being able to be nimble is so important, because these small businesses, they’re constantly pivoting. They’re constantly doing what they can to figure it out, just to make it work. You mentioned earlier, a lot of them put their entire life savings on the line to start a business, to be able to put their neck out there and provide a product or service, and constantly adjusting and honing in those skills to be able to make it work. I’m curious, in the the intros, you’re talking about the the Latin Chamber of Commerce. You had mentioned that with your the recent growth, 32% of that growth is non Hispanic business owners. And I’m curious the approach that you have to them, and especially as it comes to small business and and being able to resonate to them, to have them participate with the Latin Chamber of Commerce. What, what’s that approach been like? Because 32% that’s a good percentage, to see that growth in that segment, yeah.

Peter Guzman 17:07
And so I think that what was important was the fact that, you know, we intentionally went out and started going out to the community more, not just the Hispanic community. And you know, we have a very vibrant events programming, which is a fancy way of saying network opportunities. And so I, you know, some people use networking improperly. I think, I think networking is a science. I owe my entire very successful real estate career to networking and relationship building. And so there’s network, networking, where you walk in a room and have a cocktail and say hi to a couple folks you already know. And then there’s networking science, which is walking into a room of people you do not know, and getting to know people that you didn’t know. And so we, we have that down to a science, and that just made us grow and grow and grow.

Brandon Burton 18:23
So as you were talking, I turned around and grabbed a book off my shelf. I’ve plugged it before on the podcast, but it’s it’s titled, you’re invited by John Levy, great book. Yeah. So at the art and science of cultivating influence, and I think that should be on the mandatory reading list for any chamber to really curate a really effective networking situation. And

Peter Guzman 18:50
you know, when you combine that and I talk to young people, that’s really another passion of mine, is really talking to these young people who are still full of this innocence and inspiration and motivation. I love talking to kids like that, because if you mold that right, they’re going to be successful. And so I tell these folks how obsessed I was and am with networking and relationship building. I mean literally I came up with, and it’s not scientific, but it’s something that I drilled into my brain, because I believe in thinking to grow power, thinking to grow rich, which is another book, yeah, I convinced myself in year two of my real estate career, that every new person I met was going to turn into three transactions, three real estate deals, one way or another, either directly or indirectly. I’m telling you that it absolutely worked and continues to work and so I. What does that mean? It means I’m going to go up to people. When I go into a room, I’ll say hi to the people I already know, but it’s going to be brief. I’m going right at the people I don’t have no idea who they are, and I’m introducing myself. And that turns into transactions, that turns into deals. And so that’s that, that’s key to everything, yeah,

Brandon Burton 20:19
and that thinking gives you the confidence to make those approaches where a lot of people get in these networking situations and say, I don’t really know anybody, or you come in and get your drink, and then you have, you know, all the different sales people that are there coming and selling you insurance or whatever it is. So

Peter Guzman 20:37
that that reputation really grew for the Latin Chamber of Commerce. People now openly all around the state, talk about, yeah, it’s a must place to be. Is one of a Latin chamber events, because they know they’re going to be people of influence in that room. They know that there’s going to be people they don’t know in that room, and they’re going to come from all walks, not just Hispanic. And so that grew from, you know, 70 people to 150 people to 300 people to 500 people at a luncheon that we throw every month. You know what I mean? I mean, it just grew. And so we decided to even add a breakfast that we do monthly, where we intentionally keep that a little smaller and intimate. So that’s 50 to 80 people called desos Amigos, breakfast with friends. And it’s just wonderful opportunities. It starts there. You know, I always tell folks that want to join our chamber, because I’m brutally honest, don’t join this our chamber just to check a box because that we’re not interested in that. Yeah, we need to see value, and it’s value both ways, not just one way. And so I tell them, I’m not a magician. If you join this chamber and you apply yourself, inject yourself, you will have success. If you don’t, then don’t blame me for telling me you didn’t get a return of investment on your membership. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 22:07
I’ve, I’ve got several friends that have approached me because they know I do the podcast and I’ve worked with chambers a long time, and they’ll small business owners will approach me and say, Hey, I know you work with chambers. Do you think I should join my local chamber. Like, what do they do? I don’t know. What are you going to do? Where are you going to are you going to get involved, or do you just want to join and have some magic happen? Because you got to figure out what the mission of your chamber is. Get behind it. Get involved. Volunteer. Be a be a part of something to help build the community. And that’s where you’re going to see the magic happen.

Peter Guzman 22:41
It’s like, it’s like opening a business, right? You, you can’t just decide that you’re going to open this business, open the doors, and people are just going to come right? No, that. It takes marketing. It takes effort, right? Same thing with the chamber, but the fruits, the the return on investment can be huge, yeah.

Brandon Burton 23:01
So we’ve touched quite a bit on the networking aspect when it comes to having a passion towards small business. What are some of these other needs that you see rise to the top quite often with small businesses, to help them really get up and going and see success as they get involved with the chamber? Yeah,

Peter Guzman 23:22
a lot of a lot, if not most small business owners don’t realize that, you know that they hate politics, but they don’t realize how much politics is a part of every, everybody’s day to day life and in business as well. So what we another thing we do, really, really well is we help some small businesses entrepreneurs navigate politics, navigate the political side of you know, of getting your license of, of getting your project through Planning and Zoning, you know, finding, finding the right construction company, union, non union, all that kind of stuff. We navigate that really, really well. And so that’s a big advantage for a small business owner, because you can imagine, you know, walking into City Hall with nobody that can help hold your hand and navigate all of that can be overwhelming and can be destructive,

Brandon Burton 24:23
absolutely. And having that support, that guidance of what to do next and how to navigate those confusing, intimidating situations for a new business owner, small business owner is so crucial, and being prepared as a chamber to be able to help them navigate that is very important, exactly well. Peter, as we start to wrap things up, I wanted to ask you, for listeners who are interested in taking their chamber up to the next level, what kind of tip or action item might you suggest for them to try to implement that goal?

Peter Guzman 25:02
So you know, every every community is different, so every chamber can operate a little differently, but there’s some fundamentals that are, I think, key to every chamber success, and that is, you know, deliver on what you promise. So be careful what you promise, because you must deliver the folks are folks. You know this this how seriously I take this. My mentality of being President of the Latin Chamber of Commerce is I run a publicly traded company. The members are my shareholders. They literally write a check to this chamber, but in a lot of ways, they’re writing that check because they believe in me. I have to take it that serious. So yeah, that’s putting a lot of extra pressure on me, and I love it, and I take it very, very serious. So I want my shareholders to have value. They have a share in the Latin Chamber of Commerce. You’re going to have value. And I wake up every day thinking that way. So that sets the tone of what I’m going to do. And so I’m very focused, very laser focused on bringing value to my shareholders. That’s my members.

Brandon Burton 26:27
I love that approach and that it really just tones it down to, what do you need to do to provide value? And I mean, listen, what? I promise that’s huge.

Peter Guzman 26:38
Yeah, I’d like to provide you, you know, some fancier, long, strung out answer, but that’s the fundamental what I do. That’s the fundamental of how I think and wake up every morning. Yeah, but the the

Brandon Burton 26:51
first thing you said with that response is deliver on what you promised. And I think there’s a lot of times where chambers are really good at thinking of programs or accepting new programs that are presented to them, and things can become very overwhelming with all these things that need to be done, and just deliver on what you promise. And if you can’t deliver, don’t promise it. Don’t do it, you know, cut it out and and really focus on those things and move the needle. So I like that.

Peter Guzman 27:19
That’s That’s my approach. And I think if we start there, chambers will have success. Yeah, you have to be very careful to not turn into a social club. And you know, the the same old, same old, think outside the box. Get bold, because remember, you represent your shareholders, and they’re looking at to you for value, right?

Brandon Burton 27:43
So, Peter, as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Peter Guzman 27:54
Well, listen, you know, there’s, there’s, I know, there’s nervousness out there in the chamber world because of artificial intelligence and and, you know, automation, computer modernization, I we look at that at the Latin chamber as all opportunities. It all it goes back to the very fundamental that I already said, but all of these tools now are going to help me deliver that with much more speed, much more accuracy. So don’t fear that. Don’t embrace you got to embrace it. If you want to exist in the chamber world, you have to embrace these things.

Brandon Burton 28:31
Yeah, I love that. So important to be able to embrace the the technologies and the changes that are coming and and, you know, I’ll say that with a caveat, because there’s some ideas that come out that they get a lot of traction and and they fizzle out, but those things that you can you get that feeling, that sense, this is going to stick, this is going to be around for a while and make an impact on business. You got to be all in. You got to learn it. You got to teach it. You got to be all in. With

Peter Guzman 28:58
the caveat for me, and you know, I’m old school, but I’m never going to change what I’m about to tell you, and that is, you can automate, modernize, embrace all those tools I do and I will, but walking up to an individual, the one On one, person to person contact, making them feel a way that AI and automation won’t be able to still makes us important,

Brandon Burton 29:29
yeah, that the human contact that person can’t replace that. Yeah, yeah. Amen, well, Peter, I wanted to give you a chance to share any contact information for listeners who may want to reach out and connect with you and learn more about your approach or things you guys are doing there at the Latin chamber. What would be the best way for them to reach out and connect? Yeah, man,

Peter Guzman 29:52
feel free to say hello. Feel free to, first of all, go to our website. LVLCC.com, LV, as in. Las Vegas, LV, LCC, as in Latin Chamber Commerce.com, uh, our phone number is 702-385-7367. My name is Peter Guzman, and I promise you, and if you call, you will speak to me.

Brandon Burton 30:16
Awesome. We’ll get that in our show notes to make it easy. If someone’s driving, they don’t need to try to jot it down that phone number. We’ll get it in the show notes. So Peter, I appreciate you spending time with us today, sharing your approach, your passion towards small business this. This should be one of those episodes that reinvigorate somebody listening and says, Yes, let’s go basics, let’s drive. What’s important, right? I

Peter Guzman 30:41
hope so, and I hope we can do this again. Let’s, let’s make this an ongoing thing.

Brandon Burton 30:46
That sounds great. I look forward to seeing what the future is for the Latin chamber and what some of these upcoming changes might be. Sounds like a plan.

Peter Guzman 30:57
Excellent. Thank you.

Brandon Burton 31:00
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Create a Thriving Community with Nikki Devitt

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your hosts Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

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Our guest for this episode is Nikki Devitt. Nikki is the President and CEO of the Petoskey Regional Chamber of Commerce, a passionate community champion. She’s honored to lead an organization that emboldens positive outcomes by building a culture of thriving business to create a thriving community. With a background in broadcasting, management and marketing, she works creatively to build relationships and connections that foster positive change and growth. Nikki currently serves as chair of the Northern Michigan chamber Alliance, a coalition of 18 chambers and economic development organizations advocating for rural central business policies. She was appointed by Governor Gretchen Whitmer to serve on the Michigan statewide Housing Partnership to help facilitate Michigan’s first ever statewide housing plan. She’s on the board of directors for ACCE, a board regent for the US Chamber Institute for organization management, and is on the board of directors for the Michigan Association of Chamber of Commerce professionals. She’s a graduate of the US Chamber of Commerce business leads fellowship program, the Association of Chamber of Commerce executives, leadership and diversity cohort, and is a US Chamber of Commerce, Institute of organizational management graduate. She is a member of the Petoskey noon Rotary Club, and she donates her time to the Northern Community Mediation, Little Traverse, Pacific Theater and Women’s Resource Center of Northern Michigan. Nikki lives in Petoskey, Michigan, and spends as much time as she can hiking and enjoying all the beauty Northern Michigan has to offer. And Nikki, I’m excited to have you with us today here on Chamber Chat Podcast. I’d love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the Chamber Champions who are out there listening, and to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better. Thank

Nikki Devitt 3:01
you, Brandon, and it is Petoskey.

Brandon Burton 3:06
I should ask these questions before we start.

Nikki Devitt 3:09
It’s okay. It’s Petoskey, Michigan. There’s a long history there, which is pretty fantastic. So thank you so much for allowing me this opportunity. It’s just absolutely a wonderful thing that we can do to as chamber professionals, to speak to one another, to learn from other one another, and share from one another. So I really appreciate that very much. And being here something interesting, I guess, or unique. That is, you know, not in my bio, although that sounds interesting in a lot of ways, I guess, is that. So I do have a broadcasting background about 10 years, and also spent a little bit of time as an audio book narrator, so something that kept me busy when I wasn’t on the stage. So I’ve spent a lot of time as well performing since I was a child, and still perform in our local community theater. Very

Brandon Burton 4:05
cool. So what type of broadcast it was? TV, or right? TV? Radio? No. Radio. You were built for this. This is awesome radio.

Nikki Devitt 4:15
I’ve done a few podcasts here and there, yes. So I was, you know, started out on the sales and marketing side, and then eventually was lucky enough to have the honor to be operations and programs for a very large cluster of stations, and spent quite a bit of time on the air as well. So kind of did every facet of it. And broadcasting is a fascinating industry, and I think until I ran into the chamber industry, I thought there was probably nothing as challenging. And then I entered chamber life,

Brandon Burton 4:49
yeah, and the story is still being written, exactly. Well, tell us a little bit about the Petoskey Chamber of Commerce. To give us an idea of the size staff, scope of work, budget, just to kind of set the stage for our discussion today,

Nikki Devitt 5:05
absolutely so our chamber is is, like many, I find it so fascinating. How many chambers are over 100 years old? We’ll celebrate 105 years next year, and we are so Petoskey, Michigan, is located at the very pretty much northwest tip of the Lower Peninsula. So for those who aren’t familiar with the lower and upper peninsula, I am about 35 miles from the Mackinac Bridge, and then I can be in our beautiful upper peninsula, which to Michiganders, as we like to call ourselves, is just a place that is hard to describe, unless you have the opportunity to be there. So Northern Michigan is a wonderful resort community. We’re built on a tourism economy. So our chamber is unique in the sense that we have a very thriving year round community. Our population in the city of Petoskey, or townships, if you will, incorporate, it is about 16,000 our county has about 34,000 so we’re not very large, but we essentially triple to quadruple that population in our summer months, and also have a huge uptick in our winter months as well, because we are a year round destination with our beautiful Lake Michigan, but also fantastic ski resorts. So there’s all kinds of things that you can do. So with that in mind, and our Chamber’s history and our community’s history, we’re also put in a situation where we are lucky enough to be on places in our state that has a huge tribal history. So Petoskey actually is goes back to Ignatius badass gay, who was the first Chief of our area, way back when, and the late 1700s or late 1800s and so our community is very diverse in the sense that we have a very rich cultural history here, and yet we cater to a new element of people coming to discover this region. So we have about 770 members. We’re one of the larger chambers in the state of Michigan, especially geographically and population wise. And we have four full time staff, and about 500,000 is our budget. So we do a lot with a little, if you will, from a small staff standpoint, and I like to consider us an impact chamber. And so that means that while we still host a farmer’s market every summer and do an art show in the summer in our beautiful park, we are a very much an advocacy chamber. So we’re very involved in our community’s future, whether that be economically, how we look at it, from a prosperity way, and also still maintaining that traditional programming of networking events, we like to call them connecting events, and then a very heavy programming piece that we utilize to make sure that our members have the tools at their disposal to grow their business, enhance their employees and enhance their relationship within our community and those around us. Oh,

Brandon Burton 8:07
that’s awesome. There’s a lot going on, and I’m always impressed by the chambers that can do so much with you know, little staff, and it’s just it’s a great testament to the work that you guys do. So sounds like you’re doing great work. And we’ll focus our discussion today on creating a thriving community, which is going to go on very well with the continuation of what you shared with us so far, but we’ll dive in much deeper on that as soon as we get back from this quick break.

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Brandon Burton 7:58
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All right, Nikki, we’re back. So as we talk today about creating a thriving community, what sort of things have you seen? Obviously, every community is a little different. Every chamber is a little different. What works for you guys? Aaron Petoskey and to create a thriving community? And it sounds like I don’t know, I’ll let you define what you see as community, because I think the definition of community kind of changes over time.

Nikki Devitt 11:18
It does change. I think one of the most important factors that we take into consideration at our chamber is that the line between the business need and the community need is not a line at all. They are so interwoven within each other, we believe that from our standpoint, that our businesses only thrive when our community thrives. So we’re really looking at things in our community that impact our community and therefore would impact our businesses. So things that we hear about all the time now and more and more chambers are really into this space. Is what is that workforce impact? Is it housing? Is it childcare? Is it education? Where are the hurdles? Where are the places that our businesses need to grow and enhance themselves? We talk a lot in the state of Michigan about attracting talent, while we very much know in Northwest Michigan that we need to attract talent, we also need to retain talent. And so for us, the thriving community is giving our businesses the tools that they need to really, truly be the best that they can be. And we believe that, you know, it’s a basic conscious capitalism standpoint, if you will, the advancement of the human quality of life happens when your community is doing sustainable business practices. So that is everything that’s looking at, are you taking care of your employees? Are you taking care of your environment? Are you looking at the future of what your community could look like? So for us, we call it just chamber passion, and when you want to build a thriving community, you have to remember that first and foremost, everybody is involved, and everyone has a voice. And as we all know, that can be a very difficult prospect. With 770 members, not all of them have the same exact needs. So for us to make sure that our community thrives and our businesses thrive, we have to be nimble and we have to be ready to if we don’t have the answers or the resources to make sure that we find them and provide them for our businesses, so that our community can grow, and that everyone who wants to live and work in this beautiful, incredible place that I get to call home, has that opportunity

Brandon Burton 13:35
that’s awesome. So you touched on a ton of things there in that response, and as I, as I revisit some of that, I’m hoping you can dive in a little bit deeper. But as you talk about creating a thriving community, you talked about for these businesses to be the examples you gave, are you taking care of your employees in the environment and but then you talk about all the voices that come from people in the community and the businesses, and 770 members. So there’s a lot that needs to go out from the chamber, and a lot that comes in, as far as you know, feedback and data and so forth. So what is your approach? Because it’s hard to tackle everything all at once, so there has to be some strategy and how you build a thriving community. What, what approaches do you do from a strategy side to implement some of these things? First and foremost,

Nikki Devitt 14:29
it’s collaboration. You can’t do anything alone and community. I mean, by definition, is the work of many, not the work of one. So as a chamber, you have to realize that you are, at best, the collaborator that no one else can be. So you have to put yourself into the position when you’re looking at the issues that impact a community’s success, especially our members. Success is who needs to be at the table and whether as the. Where you’re leading those conversations, or you’re participating in them as the voice of business, you have to make sure that everybody that needs to be at that successful roundtable discussion is always there. So I mean COVID, I think we use as an example in chambers now more than ever, and I think it’s a fantastic thing that we do chambers. Were able to step into a space where we were working with our municipalities, our local government, our state government, as well, as you know, our human resources elements within our community, whether that be your health department or your hospital. How are you making sure that everybody knew what was going on and what challenges were coming for your community? It’s that same concept, except you do it for every issue that you have. So always making sure that, from a strategic standpoint, you reach out to the players that need to be involved for whatever that issue is. So if it’s housing, are you making sure that you have those relationships and that they have the information, say, from a you know, what your planning and zoning committees look like. Do they understand where the challenges are? Have they heard a business, whoa, why they can’t get employees or retain employees? Do they understand that it could be something that is within their power to address and change? And then, are you also making sure that the voices that come in are not just your big business, but your small business. So I think it’s that one first and foremost is strategically you have to if you’re talking about a thriving community, collaboration has to be your first step, and the recognition that you can’t do it alone. And it’s going to take many, many people to work on each of these individual issues to push a community as a whole forward. Yes,

Brandon Burton 16:43
yeah, you said it very well. Collaboration, as far as the what you have to work with within your staff, with within the office, how do you how do you disseminate, you know, all the things you need to do to kind of spark that collaboration and take some of the voices that you’re hearing and taking them back to those other partners in collaboration.

Nikki Devitt 17:07
I think you said it really well, though. You said with your staff. So I think that’s kind of it’s like, you know, if you’re gonna talk the talk, walk the walk, one of the first

things we do, and we’ve understood with our staff is we all have different skill sets. We all have different places of passion. We work with our members differently. So while we have defined titles and roles, we are a staff that works very collaboratively at all times, because we understand that, whether it be convening a work group to discuss child care challenges in our community, or whether it be instituting a program of work that is going to be more HR focused for some of our businesses, that helps them understand some best practices for talent retention that we have to be able to nimbly flex between those things as staff to make sure that we’re putting our resources forward, just as we’re asking our community members, our community leaders and our agencies to do to work together. So you’ve got to kind of lead with that mentality from a strategic standpoint as well, or you will burn your staff out in seconds. It does mean that we’re constantly having to adapt to circumstances within our community. Sometimes you put a lot more effort into one topic or one challenge, and then three months later, that’s something that you have to put a little bit on the back burner because something else has elevated itself into being a prior need for your community. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 18:39
I can see that for sure. So I’m curious, do you guys segment your membership at all to see, like, which ones have you know this need, like you’ve mentioned? HR, so if that is a need for, say, 20% of the businesses, business members, do you segment that or do you leave it open for any member? Because maybe there’s a need you don’t know about. I’m just curious on the approach. We do a lot of

Nikki Devitt 19:02
targeting. So everything that we offer, especially from a programming standpoint, or when we do say, you know, we do a housing Town Hall, we do Hot Topic conversations on childcare, on workforce, on legislative issues, all those things. So it’s always open to our full membership and our community as well. We make sure, especially if it is an issue that drives the community, that it is something that is open to anyone in the community, regardless of membership, when our programming is focusing on those talent attraction issues, what’s the corporate Transparency Act look like? What does the you know, latest Bill look like in the house? That how it could impact you? And there’s a lot going on with Michigan right now, and some of those, those we will open up to our home membership, but then we take a strategic approach from a staff standpoint, and say, who should be at this table? Who do we have to reach out to and maybe give a personal invitation to make sure that they are part of this conversation and or. Knowing that we know our businesses well enough, because we’re still a really small town, that which ones are going to be greatly impacted by whatever this may be, or who’s going to get the most of a benefit fact from it, and who do we make sure that they understand? So it’s always an open ended approach to everything, but then we dive down after the fact, usually give it a little bit, see where the interest lies, see who’s excited about it, and then start doing those targeted approaches by segmenting our membership based on just our category structure and how we know them. And that seems to have always worked quite well for us.

Brandon Burton 20:35
Yeah, sounds like a great approach. The worry I have with segmenting is that, you know, somebody gets invited to attend, and you have a seat at the table, and somebody else says, I had no idea the chamber even does that, not that they wanted a seat at the table, but they need to know, you know what? What is it the chamber does, and being able to get that messaging out there, so your approach seems to be well balanced, and it’s open for anybody, but then kind of hone in on those that that really need to be there. So some

Nikki Devitt 21:03
of our individual members always need that you know that special touch, and we know that, yeah, you have to know your membership well. You have to know your community well, especially when you’re taking this kind of approach. And always keep in the back of your mind that no matter what your best intentions are, you may, at some point, make someone feel like they were left out. And you have to be prepared and ready to, you know, remedy that in the best way that you can. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 21:29
so going back to the title, or the topic for this discussion, is creating a thriving community. And I’m asking, on behalf of a listener in, you know, I’m not even going to name a state, because I don’t want to get in trouble with anybody, but

Nikki Devitt 21:45
you’re doing it right now,

Brandon Burton 21:48
in the middle of nowhere. That says, you know, Nikki’s doing great. This is a, you know, she’s doing fascinating things, but she lives in a beautiful part of Northern Michigan. Got a lot of tourism. It brings people in year round. It might be a smaller community, but the reach is so much bigger. You know, I’m here in, you know, fill in the blank. How can somebody who maybe doesn’t see their community in the same light as you do? I can feel the love that you have for your community. Others may not have that same view, right? So, how can we, how can we help someone get excited about or to have that ability to create a thriving community? Because I think your enthusiasm drives that as well.

Nikki Devitt 22:30
I think, well, the first thing is, is, if you don’t feel that way about your community, why are you there? You have to have the passion for your community. First and foremost, I would be remiss if I, you know, I realize I can paint a picture that makes it look perfect, but you know, we have some huge challenges in our region and in our community in general, in that we are, while we are a, you know, mid sized, you know, chamber and pretty big for our area. We’re also in a very rural, remote area. It just happens to be pretty but rural areas come with a lot of challenges. I think my the bane of my existence will always be infrastructure. Water and Sewer are the absolute barrier to housing or commercial development or anything that we could possibly look out for future, forward thinking. And also we are a very, I’ll say, a non diverse community. So in a lot of ways, that presents challenges as the world changes, as our business needs change, what we are able to that’s just push forward is a strong sense of a term, but what we’re able to introduce our businesses to. So we have a lot of challenges, and it’s very difficult sometimes, when you see something that’s a pretty shiny Penny, to understand that maybe the other side isn’t so great. So you have to have passion, first and foremost, for your community, and you have to look at, what are our resources that make us unique. What is something about our community that makes us special? Why do our businesses choose to invest here and stay here? And you have to really believe that that is something worth fighting for and getting behind and really, really protecting, if you will, protecting from the mindset that your community isn’t special, because every community is special, if you really look into it and find what that is that makes it a place where somebody wants to live and work, and why a business wants to be there. So I think finding the passion is the first piece, and then the second piece to that comes with being aware of what your challenges are. Being aware there are obstacles you will never overcome. You can’t you can lay the groundwork for somebody 1015, 20 years from now to tackle that issue, and you can make sure that that’s an aware, an awareness to your community. But you can’t fix everything, but you have to love it first and foremost.

Brandon Burton 24:57
Yeah, I love that. The question you ask is, what makes your community special? Or find something to find, find what that is. And I’ve seen some communities that you know, what makes them special is a certain industry you know, that thrived 50 years ago, that maybe isn’t around in their community anymore, but they still recognize that. They still do a parade about it. They still have roots, you know, in that industry. And I think that’s great for a start. And then let’s look at what’s that next thing, you know, what this area was great for this industry for a reason. How can we make things great again? But I love that passion needs to drive all of it. So, absolutely fantastic. Um, so I like asking this question for listeners out there who are looking to take their organization up to the next level, or they have that that goal or desire in their mind, what kind of tip or action item might you share with them in trying to accomplish that goal?

Nikki Devitt 25:57
I think you have to take a very strong assessment of where you are and where you want to go. I mean, it’s strategic planning. 101, where are you today, and what makes your chamber what it is in your community? What? What do you do so well that the neighbor chamber couldn’t, couldn’t top it, that they want to, they want to R and D, that they want to rip off and duplicate that all day long. So taking stock of where you are and what you do well helps you determine where you want to go and what you can do better. And really, truly believing in your organization and your community is the first piece, and a very, very important piece, is you have to have the right people in the right seats. Everybody has to be on board to go with where you want to go and grow how you want to grow. And that’s a hard conversation sometimes, especially from a CEO standpoint, is to is everybody rowing the boat in the right direction? Because I truly believe that the best chamber is the chambers that is is a team. They are. They’re almost like an organism. They work so well together, and they believe so much in their mission and their vision and where they’re headed. So you have to make sure that critical piece is into place, or getting to that space in time that you want to and that goal that you have for your organization is either going to be something you won’t achieve or it’s going to take you a long time and a lot

Brandon Burton 27:28
of heartache. Yeah, I like that strategic planning 101, you got to have a vision of know where you are and where do you want to go and how you’re going to get there, so and have

Nikki Devitt 27:39
grace and space with yourself. Know that it takes time, and know that you’re never going to get everything in the time frame. You think either, you think we can do this in a year, two years, two years go by, you go, wow, we only moved the needle about 60% remember you moved the needle? Yeah, and remember that you went from where you were to where you are now, and that’s progress. And really, truly, credit yourself for that. Credit your team.

Brandon Burton 28:07
I wish I could remember who said the quote, but how people overestimate what they can do in a year but underestimate what they can do in 10 years, right? So absolutely moving the needle, but in that 10 year range, you’re really gonna see progress. Well, Nikki, as we look to the future of chambers, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Nikki Devitt 28:29
You know, I truly believe I’m a big I would say supporters is an understatement. I’m a believer in acces Horizon Report, when the first one came out, it was so, let’s just say, comforting to see that. Here’s, you know, our national chamber organization, saying, these are the places chambers belong and should be, and the things that matter. And thinking, all right, we got 10 years to get there, and then 2020 hit. We all went, Oh, wow, look. We we just did all that in five years. Yeah. And so it comes back to kind of what the core theory really truly is of, you know, the horizon initiatives. And if you are not familiar, if you are listening and you do not know what the Horizon Report is. And by the way, little hint tidbit that the updated 2035

reports out. It comes out by very shortly. So we’re super excited about that,

but you have to look into that, because it really truly talks about that chambers are the most trusted entity. And the future of chambers, it’s limitless, because we truly, truly are the conveners. We truly are the entity that isn’t just the voice of business. We’re the voice of communities. We have the power to shape and build not just our businesses, but our communities and the Horizon Report, really. Helps you kind of hone in on that and and say, there’s, you know, nine of the different initiatives, and they’re everything from timeless to timely to linchpin initiatives. And it gives you the opportunity to look into it and go, okay, my community, this is never going to be an issue, or it’s not an issue that my chamber is willing or ready to get behind. But there might be others that you look at and say, Yes, this is something we need to go because these are things that are going to affect us all. I mean, we know without a doubt scarcity and abundance and political and social fragmentation, and you can’t even get into what technology is doing as far as affecting business and our future in the population shifts that we’re having, these are all huge, huge things, and and chambers, really truly are the only entity uniquely positioned to engage in all of them and really truly make a difference.

Brandon Burton 30:57
Yeah, sounds like you’ve drunk the Kool Aid too. So that’s

Nikki Devitt 31:01
I did. I can’t deny it.

Brandon Burton 31:04
Going back and looking at the first Horizon Report, for somebody who’s just hearing about it now, to go back and look at it, you have the advantage of hindsight, of saying, Wow, that you know, this really came to pass, like this really the way? Yeah, I mean, it’s, it kind of makes your, you know, hair stand up on the back of your neck, because you’re getting it absolutely

Nikki Devitt 31:24
does. Because if you could read it and think about the fact that it came out, you know, with the intention of being having come it would all come to fruition by next year. So it came out 10 years ago, and you look at it and realize that 2020 you as a chamber professional, whatever month it was, April, May, June, July, whatever, in that year that you woke up that day and you went to bed that night and realized what you accomplished from a chamber perspective, and you read that report and you go, Oh, wow. Okay,

then I just hit all nine of those in eight hours or 12, depending on what you were working but yeah, yeah.

Brandon Burton 32:04
Very good. Well, Nikki, this has been fun having you on. I love your energy. I love the enthusiasm. I love the impact that you’re making there. Toski, thank you for being with us today. Please share any contact information for listeners who may want to reach out and connect with you. Where would you point them to?

Nikki Devitt 32:22
I would absolutely and I’ll spell it because Heaven knows you can’t pronounce nobody. Don’t worry, nobody can pronounce it. Petoskeychamber.com and that’s P, E, T, o, s, k, e, y, chamber.com and my email is really easy. Nikki, nikki@petoskeychamber.com, and I would love to hear from anyone and just wish everyone the best for 2025 because I think that chambers are going to be needed once again, like we always have been, percent, you know, over a century, now more than ever. So this is our time to really bring our communities and together and elevate our businesses

Brandon Burton 33:02
Absolutely, and we’ll get that in our show notes. Make it easy. People don’t have to spell. They can just click and make it easy to connect with you. But thanks again. This has been wonderful, and wish you the best as you continue to build a thriving community.

Nikki Devitt 33:17
Thank you so much.

Brandon Burton 33:18
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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your hosts Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

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Our guest for this episode is Michael Guymon and native tucsonan The new word for me. Michael’s 25 year professional career has primarily centered on political strategy, business development and advocacy and organizational management. As president and CEO for the Tucson Metro Chamber, Michael is responsible for developing and implementing the goals and vision for the chamber to fulfill the Chamber’s mission and champion and to champion an environment where your business thrives and our community prospers. Michael’s previous positions include vice president of regional partnerships for sun corridor Inc, the executive director of Metropolitan Pima Alliance, chief to staff to Tucson city council member Fred Ron Stan, Assistant Vice President for governmental affairs for the Tucson Metropolitan Chamber of Commerce and political consultant to the bridges, a 360 acre mixed use, mixed use infill development that includes tech parks Arizona, Geico regional headquarters, housing and 111 acre commercial development. Michael holds a bachelor’s degree in Political Science from the University of Arizona. On a personal note, his passion is baseball, and he was named the official score for the Tucson Padres triple A baseball club from 2011 to 2013 the team moved to El Paso in in 2014 But Michael, I’m excited to have you with us today here on chamber chat podcast. I’d love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the chamber champions who are out there listening, and to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better.

Michael Guymon 2:48
Yeah, absolutely. Brandon, thank you so much for that, that great introduction, and I’m happy to be here to talk to all of our team chamber champions that are out there. I guess one other little fun fact is, as much as my passion is baseball, I actually play ice hockey. So a lot of people ask me, Wow, a native tucsonan That plays ice hockey. How the heck did that happen? And when I was in college, my buddies and I were just kind of bored playing too much hockey on Sega, so we decided to buy some stick, a puck, and some roller blades, taught ourselves how to play, and that ultimately morphed into playing ice hockey. So So yeah, I am also an ice hockey player, and I still play in the adult league here in Tucson and and it’s a lot of fun. It keeps me, keeps me busy and and it helps me get, you know, some of that pent up nerve that some chamber CEOs can can experience out on the ice.

Brandon Burton 3:46
That’s right, that’s a I would not have guessed that, you know, baseball and hockey. I would not have guessed, you know, but yeah, that that’s awesome. Glad it keeps you active, keeps you involved,

Michael Guymon 3:56
absolutely.

Brandon Burton 3:58
Well, tell us a little bit about the Tucson Metro Chamber, just to kind of set the stage for our discussion today, give us an idea of the size of the chamber staff, budget, scope of work and all that, just to kind of give us your perspective.

Michael Guymon 4:10
Yeah, you bet. Thank you, Brandon. So our chamber has been around since 1896 and we have been the voice of business in a variety of forms for those 100 and now 28 years. So we are a staff of 11, budget of about 1.8 million, and we have 1400 members, and those members are everything from restaurants to Raytheon. Raytheon is our largest private employer here in the Tucson region. Aerospace and Defense is our biggest, not only employer, but also just from a economic impact part of the economy, our biggest player, between Raytheon, with its 14,000 employees and 200 companies that make up our airspace and defense. Sector here in in the Tucson region. So so that’s that’s a big component, but so are a lot of our small businesses here. And of course, the chamber is the main organization that helps to advocate and be the voice for those small businesses. So So it ranges, really good range, but that that’s kind of what makes up our chamber?

Brandon Burton 5:21
Very good. And I know Raytheon is a great company to have in your backyard there. We’ve got a campus probably about 15 miles from our house here in Texas, and they’re great employer and great community player and just a great one to have have on your team there in Tucson, absolutely well, as we try to hone in on what our focus for our conversation is going to be, today, we decided to focus our the majority of our discussion around advocacy, but more specifically, advocacy that bolsters the competitiveness of your community. And we’ll dive in much deeper on this topic as soon as we get back from this quick break.

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All right, Michael, we’re back. As I mentioned before the break, we’re talking about how advocacy can bolster your community’s competitiveness as we take that approach, what does that mean to you as far as advocacy and keeping the maybe the relevance in your community and staying on the cutting edge? Just tell us what that means from you and your approach to advocacy in this with this focus. Sure.

Michael Guymon 8:19
So you know, advocacy really is it really is our main value proposition for the chamber. We, as I mentioned before, we are the voice of business, and part of being the voice of business is making sure that we are that bold advocate for a lot of things that relate to the business community and really try to push pro business policies through our city and county, and actually, when I became CEO of the chamber about three years ago, I shifted our focus to purely local, local advocacy, because we did have staff member, various staff members who would go up to Phoenix to lobby positions at the legislature. But I felt it was there. There’s plenty of work to do within the city of Tucson and Pima County that we really needed to focus our efforts locally and address the pro business policies that would help bolster our business community here locally and partner with those organizations like the greater Phoenix chamber and the Arizona chamber that has a stronger presence of the Capitol. And if there are ways that we can, that we can partner with them on state legislation that addresses pro business policy, then we’ll do that. But the chamber is really going to take the lead here locally and and we’ve been very successful at doing that. So, so when it comes to competitiveness now, it really dry there, there are, there are main components to that. Competitiveness. It it comes down to workforce and talent. It comes down to transportation and. Infrastructure comes down to public safety, comes down to housing affordability and quality of life. Those are, those are the five sort of pillars that we look at when we are talking about our competitiveness. As a former employee of our economic development organization, the big thing that I learned there is that talent and workforce and labor drives 99% of the relocation expansion decisions, and it also helps drive whether companies decide to stay within a community so as the retainer of business now at the Chamber I when I was at our economic development organization. I was it was my job to help companies expand to relocate to Tucson now at the Chamber, it’s my job to make sure that they stay here. Talent drives a lot of those decisions, and so working on workforce development and making sure that our educational institutions, our post secondary educational institutions and our K 12 system, quite frankly, are laddering up to the skills and positions that are needed within our companies. Is critically important to make sure that those connections are made. So we do a lot of that work. We have collaboratives in healthcare. We have collaboratives in mining. We have collaboratives in that are focused on construct the construction industry, and then we partner with those organizations that address the issues in and around some of our other targeted sectors and industries. But but addressing workforce development is a big component of making sure that we are competitive, not only for companies that are looking to expand, to relocate, but also those companies that are here and want to expand here in our region

Brandon Burton 11:45
that is so important, and it’s kind of the chicken or the egg, right? Like you want the big business there, you want the companies to relocate, but they need to have the workforce. And at the same time, you’re trying to build the workforce, and kind of think, if you build it, they will come kind of a sense, you know, if there’s your baseball tie in, right? Very good. But I’m curious with the approach, with this, the schools, the, you know, school system, the secondary education, what, what approach is the chamber able to do from that advocacy effort to make sure that these students are being prepared to enter the workforce, and specifically in these key we’ll say categories, these key industries you’re looking to have workforce for. What’s that approach look like?

Michael Guymon 12:34
So Brandon, really, it’s our job as a chamber to make sure that the industries and the companies are engaged. You know, I’m not. I’m not here to tell our community college system or our university who do incredible work in our community and our true are truly our economic drivers of the community. I’m not here to tell them what to do. But what I can do is bring, come more, more and more companies to the table, for them to say, here are the positions that are open. Here are the skills that I need. Here are the skills that I think are lacking in our community, to have those conversations so that our post secondary education institutions understand what the needs are, in hopes that they will help address them. So it’s my job as a chamber to encourage those companies to be a part of those conversations, and we’ve been successful in that we have a lot of companies that are at the table. Could I use more? Absolutely, it’s imperative that I have more and more industries at those tables so that they can express the types of challenges that are they are facing from a workforce standpoint. But outside of that, you know, a lot of the issues that we hear, especially at the retail level, are related to public safety, they’re related to transportation they’re related to housing affordability these days. I mean, boy, you know, this is a topic that is certainly not unique to Tucson, but it is something I am hearing more and more chambers talk about how we need to make sure that we address our housing affordability. And the recent term I’ve heard is income. I don’t think it was income based, but basically, you know, income based housing, so making sure that we’re that we’re addressing the various aspects of housing, because it is diverse, we want to make sure that our housing options are diverse, but but those are, those are issues that our communities are facing, and we as a chamber, making sure that companies are at The table to be a part of those conversations and dialogs. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 14:44
I imagine having the companies at the table specifically with workforce and talent, is trying to keep some of that talent in the community. For whatever reason, it seems like a lot of maybe high school students see that they’re the. Horizons are somewhere else, right where they need to go away, leave the community, to go to school or to find a job and to be able to show them the opportunities that are right there in Tucson, I think is key in what you guys are after with this approach, absolutely,

Michael Guymon 15:13
and it’s, I’m glad you mentioned that, because we’re having conversations right now, particularly with our university, about that, whether it’s, you know, seen as a brain drain or a brain gain, and the ways that we can address that we used to actually host an event called the career crawl, and this was getting local companies and students connected. Because a lot of the jobs fairs that occur on college campuses are companies that are from outside coming into our community and saying, Hey, we got a great job for you the Bay Area, or we got a great job for you in Chicago. And they and those students leave because of that. Well, we wanted to create a local job fair so that students could have a better understanding of what that local job opportunity looks like. And the U of A the University of Arizona actually picked that up. They now have a have an annual and actually sometimes twice a year, Job Fair called Tucson jobs now. So they took our idea and they created their own job fair that focuses on local job opportunities. And what we’re seeing now, we’ve actually seen some of those statistics shift. It used to be that that a quarter of our of our graduates stayed here in Tucson, which is a really low number, because in some communities, it could be upwards to 50 and 60% that is now inching up. We’re now seeing that number is now 35% of our graduates staying here in Tucson. And so from a statistical standpoint, we’re actually seeing a brain gain over the last three to four years as a poor as opposed to a brain drain. Could we do better? Obviously, we could, but we’re at least sitting seeing those those graduates, stay here more than they have in the past, and and we’re hopeful it’s because of things like that, where we’re opening more doors to local opportunities.

Brandon Burton 17:14
It’s trending the right way, for sure,

Michael Guymon 17:18
absolutely.

Brandon Burton 17:19
I love the approach of local advocacy and in these areas that you talked about with transportation and quality of life and public safety and housing, and can you talk to us a little bit more about some of the different approaches? Maybe in these other categories, we spent some good time on the workforce and talent development, but talk to us a little bit about the transportation or quality of life and things of that nature? Yeah,

Michael Guymon 17:43
absolutely. So I’ll start with public safety. So couple, two and a half years ago, I created our coalition against retail theft. It was small businesses, even, oddly enough, one of our one of our mortuaries, as well as you know, places like CVS and Walgreens were a part of this coalition because they were experiencing retail theft today, more than they have, like, extremely, more more than they have in the past. And so we created this coalition to address a lot of those challenges that those companies were facing, and we brought in local law enforcement, we brought in our city and county attorneys. We brought in a lot of the individuals to be a part of those conversations, direct conversations, so that we could come up with with solutions. One of the solutions that we did come up with, we were the recipients of a local grant that awarded small businesses micro loans, or actually, sorry, micro grants. It wasn’t a loan a micro grant to put in new lighting, to put in new vegetation, to put do things with on their own property, to discourage retail theft and and vandalism and things that would happen, you know, private property vandalism. So so we were successful in that, and we want to do more of that. And so now our conversations have grown outside of retail theft and are really focused on public safety and things that we could do to to make sure that we are addressing public safety, and a lot of that comes down to making sure that we’re hiring more police officers and other things to to address public safety in our community. As it comes to trans transportation, we have a reauthorization that’s going to be on the ballot next year of our Regional Transportation Authority. This is a 20 year half cent sales tax that was approved back in 2006 it will sunset in 2026 so next year we’re placing on the ballot an extension of a 20 year extension to that half cent sales tax. And that, again, is just Pivotal, especially in a state where we’re seeing. Fewer and fewer state shared revenues coming toward transportation. If we don’t reauthorize that we locally are going to be in a world of hurt, and we know how important transportation is to our economy, to deliver the goods and services that companies and small businesses depend on, it is absolutely critical that we maintain a robust transportation network. And so that’s that’s some that’s a huge, going to be a huge focus of ours going into next year. And

Brandon Burton 20:31
I’ve seen chambers, you know, in other areas, have a lot of success with taking on initiatives like that transportation to get it on the ballot. And this is a renewal. So hopefully it’s a little easier to tell that story. But for the person that says, Well, I don’t take you know public transportation well, but a lot of the people that are you know, serving you your dinner at the restaurant, they do, and if you are not participating in this, you’re going to pay a lot higher or not have a wait staff, or whatever it is. I mean, there’s all different industries that have employees that rely on public transportation, and you see that across the board, for quality of life within a community, if you don’t have a strong, you know, transportation, says public transit system, then you suffer. So hopefully that’ll, you know, get that momentum you need, get it across the finish line and renew that and keep your community thriving. Are there other areas you touched a little bit about housing? What are some of the the approaches that you guys are taking on with housing?

Michael Guymon 21:35
So when it comes to housing, we are working with mainly our our county. So Pima County is the county that serves our region, and our Pima County, believe it or not, is the same size as the state of Connecticut. So counties in Arizona are quite large. We only have 15 we’re the sixth largest state, but we only have 15 counties. So our counties here are pretty big, but so Pima County does a lot of work. In fact, it does a lot of work that counties typically a lot of urban work that counties typically don’t do to counties typically provide rural services, but our county does a lot of urban services. So they’re pretty big player in terms of making sure that we continue to to establish a pro business environment here in the region. But when it comes to housing, they have established a Housing Commission, and we are looking at various proposals and initiatives that would that would help address that some of it, quite frankly, Brandon is going to come down to to public support, but we can also look at ways in which we lessen some of the regulation. So regulation is a big, big issue when it comes to being able to provide the housing supply. And as we all know in the chamber world, supply and demand, economics is a real thing, and understanding that is pivotal for communities as they’re trying to address some of these issues. And so the better we can lessen regulation, or at least address regulation in the right way that provides the ability for developers to build housing stock is going to help address the supply and demand issue, and if they’re able to build more supply that meets the demand, then those housing prices are going to come down. It is just basic economics. So So our focus has been and will continue to be on the regular regulation side of things. And there are some great examples out there. We’ve learned some examples in the Minneapolis area. There are some examples that are going on in California that really address that, that supply issue, and so we want to enact some of those things outside of sort of public support for for housing.

Brandon Burton 23:54
Yeah, no, that’s that’s great, and it really gives some ideas about how housing can be approached. Again, the local approach to advocacy, I think, is so important. And like you said at the beginning, it’s normal for chambers to have staff that are tasked with going to the state capitol or going to Washington, and there’s a place for that, absolutely, but be able to turn the advocacy internally within the community, to build that that place making really within your community, to have it be a place where businesses want to be, where people want to live, where you have that quality of life, is so key. Yeah. So I wanted to ask on behalf of listeners who are wanting to take their chamber up to the next level, kind of tip or action item might you share with them as they try to get after that goal?

Michael Guymon 24:46
Yeah, I would say just make sure that you are providing the right kind of value proposition, whether it’s serving your members on a regular basis or, you know, one of the one of the actions that we took was. So knowing that our advocacy was a primary driver for companies, small, medium and large to join the chamber, we actually embedded our Public Policy Council into our bylaws. So you know the normal committees that you would find in bylaws of it, like the Finance Committee and the Governance Committee, but we actually put our public policy council committee in our bylaws because we knew how important that was to our members, and by putting in the bylaws, that means that a board member of ours has to chair the public policy committee. So it’s that direct link between Board activity and our what we consider our number one value proposition for our members, and to demonstrate how important that is, our community, our connections important. Of course, they’re important. We’re going to continue to provide events. We’re going to continue to provide mixers and breakfasts and ways in which our businesses can connect and connect, whether that means connecting with leaders so that they can share their thoughts or connecting with each other so they can do business with each other. We want to make sure that we’re continuing to do that, but we are also putting together our next three year strategic plan, and as it stands right now, it has yet to be approved by the board, but we’re we are having conversations with all of our committees, our board, our high level investors, and at the end of the three years, we’re looking to have 80% of our funding go toward our advocacy efforts. That that’s a big percentage, that’s that’s certainly more than most chambers would be comfortable with accepting, but again, that is something that our members are telling us is important to them, and they’re willing to shift and maybe even grow dollars on the advocacy side of the of the of the staffing coin, so that we can be that stronger advocate for for the region and and part of that is because of what we are up against in Tucson, maybe different from and unique from other communities. We have a a government that doesn’t see the value in in business, thoughts and opinions, and so we have to push harder than some other chambers have to when it comes to our local governments, to say, This is why the business voice is important. This is why you need to include the business community in a lot of your conversations as you develop your ordinances or your initiatives. And so because of that push, because of that added push, we’re going to have to add resources on that side of the ledger, and our board seems to be comfortable in moving that direction.

Brandon Burton 27:51
That’s great. Just between the board and your members recognizing the impact and seeing you guys move the needle with your advocacy efforts to want to lean into it even more. I think is huge. So yep, Well, Michael, I like asking everyone I have on the show, as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Michael Guymon 28:14
Well, it’s interesting. You say that because we are in a due diligence process right now to potentially merge with our economic development organization, the very same one that I used to work for, and I was there for seven and a half years. I’ve been to the chamber now here for for six years. And so I’ve seen both sides, and what I truly feel is and I and in my conversations with chambers across the country who have got who have actually successfully merged with their economic development organization to have the expansion slash attraction and retention arms under one roof, I think, is powerful. So I see, and again, based on a lot of the conversations and a lot of the trends that we are seeing in the chamber environment across the country, I see more of that happening. And so I think the trend to answer your question is moving in that direction, to to establish a merged relationship with economic development organizations, I think, is going to be the future of chambers. To be, not only that advocate for a pro business environment, but also, like we’ve talked about, be that advocate for their community’s competitiveness, because it is a much more competitive world out there. Companies are moving and relocating more today than they have in the past. And so for chambers and economic development organizations to be aligned in their messaging, be aligned in their content, I think is going to be not only the trend for chambers moving forward, but also to establish a more powerful organization. That can bring all of those services to bear and be that advocate for pro business policy and for competitiveness in their respective communities. So

Brandon Burton 30:13
out of curiosity, and I know it’ll look a little different in each community, but how does a conversation like that begin when you talk about a possible merger with the chamber and Economic Development Authority, yeah,

Michael Guymon 30:26
based on a lot of the conversations that I’ve had, some of them are like, like us. It’s come down to there are too many business organizations in your region, and sometimes it’s hard for that collective, unified voice to exist, and the more dispersed voices that you have in a region, sometimes can dilute that voice as you’re trying to advocate and lobby for a pro business environment. So sometimes it starts there, other times it starts with and I’ve had these conversations with other communities as well. It started with an exiting of of a senior official, like a CEO of either a chamber or an economic development organization, where, when that person exits the community, kind of takes a step back and says, Okay, well, that person’s exiting maybe now, maybe the timing is right now for us to take a look at whether or not these two organizations should should be under one roof.

Brandon Burton 31:27
Yeah, I think that’s helpful, just to be able to keep minds open and perspectives open, to see when that opportunity, when it makes sense. I would argue in a lot of cases, it does make sense, but to see when that timing matches up and how to start those conversations. Yeah, well, Michael, I wanted to give you a chance to share any contact information you’d like to put out there for listeners who may want to reach out and connect and learn more about how you guys are doing things there in Tucson. What would be the best way for them to reach out and connect with you? Yeah, happy

Michael Guymon 31:58
to do that. So our website is TucsonChamber.org and my email address, should anyone want to email me, is mguymon@tucsonchamber.org happy to love answering emails. I’m definitely one of those individuals that gets back to folks within 24 hours. So love to communicate, love to learn, love to share ideas. Love to share best practices. And just love to communicate, like I said earlier, with other chamber executives. Because my way is not always the right way, but I can share what works for us, but I can also learn what works for others. So happy to do that absolutely

Brandon Burton 32:48
well. We’ll get that in our show notes to make it easy to find you and for listeners to connect with you, but I do appreciate you spending time with us today on chamber chat podcasts and sharing what is working for you guys there in Tucson, and thank you for being with us and sharing your perspective with us today.

Michael Guymon 33:06
Thank you so much. Brandon. I appreciate it.

Brandon Burton 33:08
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First Reaction of the Chamber Industry with Dale Kooyenga

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your hosts Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

Our title sponsor for this episode is Bringing Local Back. Remember when your community could turn to a local TV station or newspaper for the latest updates and affordable ads? Those days may be fading, but the need for local connection remains. That’s why we created Bringing Local Back, a game changing platform that restores the local visibility and advertising power to your community. It’s more than just tech. It’s about driving engagement and creating new revenue for your chamber. Ready to see the future visit bringinglocalback.com to schedule your demo today. This is the future of local commerce.

Our guest for this episode is Dale Kooyenga. Dale grew up in as the oldest of four children in a blue collar family. He played college basketball at Moraine Valley Community College, followed by Lakeland University. Following graduation from Lakeland University, Dale moved to Milwaukee and immediately fell in love with the Milwaukee community, inspired by the events of September 11, Dale joined the US Army alongside two of his brothers. He attended a fit Officer Candidate School, followed by the Army’s military intelligence officer training program, Dale was assigned to the United States Army, civil affairs, psychology, Operations Command in 2008 he was deployed to Iraq with the 400 and 32nd civil affairs battalion as part of the surge strategy led by General David Petraeus. Dale was awarded the Bronze Star for service in Iraq. In addition to his service in Iraq, Dale has served in military intelligence units attached to the Defense Intelligence Agency, two company commands, including command of Wisconsin’s First Army Reserve Counter Intelligence Unit, and overseas assignments with NATO allies in Europe and in South Korea. Dale currently holds the rank of lieutenant colonel and as the battalion commander for the 407th Army Reserve civil affairs battalion. In his civilian career, Dale is the President at the Metropolitan Milwaukee Association of Commerce. The MMCA represents over 2000 businesses serving as the region’s boardroom in pursuit of a globally competitive economy that fosters high value jobs, sustains a vibrant quality of life for all, Dale is a certified public public accountant, and obtained his MBA from Marquette University prior to joining MMAC, Dale served eight years as Wisconsin state representative and then four years in the Wisconsin State Senate, where he developed a reputation as a hard working, pragmatic Problem Solver who worked across party lines. Dale and his wife Jennifer have four children, their son grant and three daughters, Taylor, Quinn and Ada. Dale, I’m excited to have you with us today here on Chamber Chat Podcast. First of all, thank you for your your dedicated service, but welcome to the show. Give you a chance to say hello to all the Chamber Champions who are out there listening, and I’d love to give you a chance to share something interesting about yourself, maybe that we didn’t cover, so we can all get to know you a little bit better.

Dale Kooyenga 3:37
Yeah. Well, thanks for having me on the show, and hello to my fellow colleagues in the chamber world. This is a whole world I’d never thought of three four years ago. I do a lot of speaking with high schoolers, and we do a lot of programming as far as you can’t be what you can’t see. And I you know new associations existed, knew they had presidents and CEOs and all that stuff, but never thought of myself in that role up until about two and a half years ago in the interview process. So great. I love it. It’s It’s amazing where life brings you love, where I’m at in regards to interesting things that people don’t know about me, that’s only to be revealed on your podcast no one else knows, besides the koinga kids and some of their select friends, is I do a very mean, authentic Donald Duck impersonation.

Brandon Burton 4:28
All right,

Dale Kooyenga 4:32
there’s some interesting those

Brandon Burton 4:34
are one of those things that between father and the children, like grandchildren, something like, that’s that’s something, a special bond that you’ll have. I can’t. It’s a weird thing. I

Dale Kooyenga 4:45
can never be able to snap. I try to try to be like, Oh, it’s so easy. Why didn’t they try to teach you I cannot snap. But somehow, God gave me this ability to make Donald Duck noises.

Brandon Burton 4:53
There you go. Hey, that’s got to be worth something. It’ll never be on the resume, but there it is. That’s right, you. Well, give us some background about your chamber. Give us an idea of size, staff, scope of work, budget, just all of that to kind of set the stage for the perspective that you’re coming from as we enter into our discussion today.

Dale Kooyenga 5:12
Well, I appreciate that, because as we talk about how healthy and impactful the Metropolitan Milwaukee Association of Commerce is, I have to acknowledge, is that I’m fully aware that I’m on third base. I did not get a triple. It was primarily my predecessor before me, Tim Sheehy, who has been the president for 30 years, 31 years, and there for 40 years at the MMAC. So very, very appreciative for his leadership. The impacts he’s had, really has led a great chamber, and also the community in general. So we’ve been around since 1861 so we have, you know, just like a lot of associations, there’s a bunch of at the time, gentlemen who were upset with things going on in the community or just thought that there needed to be a change in some institutional guidance, in addition to a government and formed our association in downtown Milwaukee. We’re now, you know, we’re metro Milwaukee, but really more of a Regional Chamber in Southeast Wisconsin, and we do have aspects of our business, including health insurance program and a food and beverage group, among other initiatives that are statewide in Wisconsin. So it’s a very robust chamber. We do a lot of lobbying, primarily at the state level, to a lesser extent, at the federal and local level. We, like any association, do events. We have a health insurance plan. We actually have a sub Sarah doing Milwaukee development, corporate sales, real estate, and that’s just a scratch of service. So we’re in a lot of different things and really making a big impact here in Milwaukee.

Brandon Burton 6:45
Yeah, that’s fantastic. I’m excited about our topic for discussion today, especially after going through your bio, the background that you have, the military service, estate service, you know, civil service, to be able to get your perspective as you entered the chamber world, and what some of those first impressions were, how you adapted, and just the story around that. And we’ll dive into that much deeper as soon as we get back from this quick break.

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All right, Dale, we’re back. As I mentioned before the break today, we’re going to be focusing our discussion primarily on what some of your first impressions were as you entered into the chamber world. Like you mentioned, you didn’t even know this world existed to the level it does until you’re in it. But just tell us from from your background and the the introductions you had in the chamber world. What were some of those first impressions and reactions that kind of introduced you into this space? Well, my

Dale Kooyenga 9:28
first interactions with the association was when I was in political office, and they would come and lobby me. So it’s funny, when I was looking for jobs, I was interviewing, I actually had a couple positions already in mind where I knew the direction I wanted to go, and it was not a political direction. I didn’t want to go. Politics was always something I did. It was never something I was and so I didn’t want to do something where I was in the political realm. So I remember our current chair, Austin Ramirez, was CEO. Of a husco, which is a manufacturing company in the automotive space in here in Milwaukee area. He called me up and said, Hey, you Tim, she’s not going to be around forever. We’re looking for someone to be positioned at MMAC and then transition into possibly his role someday. Would you be interested? My reaction, immediately, without even thinking about was, No, I’m not, and the reason was because I thought of NBC as a lobbying organization, and I didn’t want to be a lobbyist. I didn’t want to have that be part of my post political life. And I remember I hung up the phone that night. I’m a solid sleeper, but I woke with the middle of night, and just thought about that very brief conversation, and I looked at MHC on the internet, and it just struck me, man, there’s a lot more to this organization than what I saw on the receiving end of the lobbying, economic development, the events, the the business line activities that we provide to our members. And it really struck me as like, this is actually a perfect fit for my background. Was a business background and a political background and the military leadership I learned. And so I remember thinking, Is there a time too early to call a CEO a multi million dollar company and say, Hey, can I get a take back? And I did just that. I called him at 7am and said, Austin, can I get take back? I actually am interested. That’s that’s perceived with what this process looks like. And so proceed with that process. There’s a national search and an interview process, and it obviously went well. Here I am. So that was my initial thought. And I just, you know, really, actually enjoy the public policy work we do. I would say it’s about 30% of my job, if I had to quantify it, but it’s been really impactful. And I just have a really deep respect for associations, because I really deep respect for America, and I mean some cheesy about that, but if you look at TED Talk, Phil as far as what makes America America, he talks about those institutions and the institutions that are outside of government to help shape the Democratic Republic governance process and how impactful that is. You know, just one more thought on that. I apologize be long winded. You know, just last week, there was a Nobel Prize, a peace prize, awarded to two authors of a book called Why nations fail and the book goes around the world and talks about places where there’s the same people, it’s genetic makeup, the same climate, but somehow radically different economic results, or community health. And you look at East Berlin, West Berlin, Nogales, US side Nogales, Mexico, side North Korea, South Korea. And there’s a couple key takeaways in the book about what works and what doesn’t work. But one of the things is that institutional strength leads to a healthier community and economy, and the Chamber world is part of that institutional strength, clearly. And so I’m a romantic. I believe in our country. I believe in meaningful work, meaningful relationships. And so when I find myself in this job, I mean, this is the perfect job for what I believe and live and what I want to do, and looking at what I think makes an impact to community. I think associations really do matter, and I think I’m at an association that has is and will matter in the future.

Brandon Burton 13:29
Well, I’m glad that Austin reached out to you. I’m glad that he took your your immediate call back the next morning, because we need people like you in the chamber world and having the unique background you do. I was going to ask about the percentage of lobbying time that you give in your current position, and I think you covered that with about a third of the time is kind of focused in that, that direction and the advocacy part. But I guess my question is, how? How can the chamber community in general, how can we do a better job of relaying what it is that the chambers do for communities, to strengthen and build communities. So when you know the next Dale coin goes out there trying to be recruited for the next chamber executive seat doesn’t shoot it down because, you know, the it the work is being seen. It’s being recognized. And it’s not just that surface layer initial reaction, I guess, do you have any thoughts of what, what the chamber community at large could do better to to attract people with with great backgrounds to the industry,

Dale Kooyenga 14:43
I think primarily telling the story I just told, as far as the importance of institutions. I mean another great book by Robert Putnam that I think is now, gosh, 20 years old, but it’s still very relevant, maybe older than that is bullying alone and the propensity of individuals. Go alone and be alone, as opposed to plugging into associations and institutions and groups like the rotaries and the legions and things like that. So I think it’s that person that wants to press and push for a community. I also think it needs to be a doer. I see a lot of associations and chambers that tell people what they do. I don’t think they are as effective as showing people what they do. And what I mean by that is you can’t have your meetings. You can’t have your board members being given a show and talking about a topic. They want action. They want to see things shaped. They want to see state statutes eliminated, modified or created. They want to see buildings going up. They want to see crime going down. They want to see relationships form that create tangible, substantive fruits for the community. So I see a lot of event, heavy conversation, heavy associations and chambers, and my recommendation would be, that’s good, that’s deliberative, that’s healthy, but you gotta translate that into effective action that actually changed the landscape. Otherwise, you’re just a bunch of talking heads about radio show.

Brandon Burton 16:25
Yeah, I think that’s a key point to be be a doer show that action, and I’d say, from your perspective, before you came into the chamber world, your your point of view of the doer, the action that the chamber is doing was as a lobbyist. So it makes sense, that’s what you would see, right? Yeah, it

Dale Kooyenga 16:45
was in my office. So that was the engagement. I was my value to the association, was my ability to write and vote on laws. And so that was the face I saw. I was in the business community, but at my level of CFO in midser companies, I was not engaged. Maybe I should have been, but I was not engaged from a business level with the Association, like, like I should have been. So that was my perch. That’s what I saw. And you see what you see from your perch. And so it’s really good to see now all the different other aspects to what we do and why we do it.

Brandon Burton 17:19
Yeah, absolutely. I think it’s just a it’s a fascinating idea, just to think about the perspectives that one comes into the chamber world. I love getting people’s stories of how they found the chamber industry, how they were invited in. Some people, you know, it’s out of high school, some it’s after a very productive career. Some it’s just by total accident, right? But being able to see how people are introduced, how they can take their skill set and be able to apply it to make a an organization of action, to be able to really drive things forward within their community, is what I think. That’s what makes the chamber work so special. That’s what makes it the industry, such a special thing. I’d like to always ask for chambers that are out there looking to take their chamber next to the next to the next level. You’ve given some great, you know, action points already, but what kind of tip or action item might you share with listeners who are interested in taking their organization to the next level? Um,

Dale Kooyenga 18:23
I mean, have an engaged board that you could actually call upon to help with things. I mean, they’re there for a reason. And so, you know, don’t be afraid to engage your board and have them be what we call the military force multipliers. So, so that’d be the big thing I would. I mean you gotta serve your members and what the members want. I think in this space, there’s probably few memberships that are politically uniform in one direction, and so therefore, I would encourage a chamber of association to be mindful that if you look like you are a part of a political party, or just relationship wise, on one side of the political party, you’re probably going to minimize your ability to get things done. And now I say that because the nation’s different, and I can’t pretend or dive down into what’s your politics look like, where your chamber association is. I can tell you from Milwaukee, we are a purple state in Wisconsin. Milwaukee is blue, like most large metros, our outer part of our region is more red, and so therefore we have and we will and to be most effective, we have very healthy relationships with both sides of the aisle. And I would say that our membership, especially our board, is bipartisan and probably increasingly no partisan that claim no party. And so we need to be in the relationship business. We can’t be in the political ideology business, and we. Need to know what’s right for our community, and sometimes that falls in different parts of political spectrum. But I mean, I’ll just give an example, like last year, we had a really, really big win. The city and the county of Milwaukee were in a very tough financial position for reasons that was no fault of anybody that was in office or in power. These were decisions made decades ago related to pension issues, and the big compromise we need with both parties was Republicans wanted more police on the street. Wanted more public safety. Democrats wanted additional revenue in the form of a sales tax and sure and more shared revenue from state. Both parties wanted more fiscal solvency, which meant freezing some pensions. It meant so that goes to the whole deal, but there was a compromise made on both sides that we put together, and now this fiscal State of the County the city are much, much better. They’re not closing libraries. They are adding police to the street. They no longer have this infant, these infamous pension plans. So that’s what I’m talking about. I mean, for us, I think you really don’t be a be politically astute and make sure you’re in the relationship business, not the political ideology business.

Brandon Burton 21:18
I think that’s great advice. And your comments, you know, resonate with being the same center, you know, when it comes to political issues. But I, I’ve heard it said that if, if you can resonate with what makes for a good, you know, pro business environment. If that’s your members, that’s what’s, you know, supporting organizations and business members when it comes to politics, if you’re doing things that are that support business, that grow business, you have that to stand on, and it’s not doesn’t have to be a political party at all. And oftentimes you’ll find things on both sides of the aisle that support business. And if that’s your mission, to drive business, drive your local economy, you can’t go wrong if that’s your focus, but builds relationships along the way. So that’s absolutely key.

Dale Kooyenga 22:09
See, like, for example, is, you know, I can really be angry right now with you and like, be hostile because you’re clearly a 49 ish fan.

Unknown Speaker 22:17
Yeah,

Dale Kooyenga 22:18
I’m a Packers fan, but I’m still going to be pleasant and polite and find common ground here. So yeah, and I’ll forgive you a perfect example.

Brandon Burton 22:29
That’s right, and you’ve got the American flag behind us. That makes it all better. So we’re there you go. We’re on the same team. Yeah, that’s good. Well, as we look to the future of chambers of commerce. How do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Dale Kooyenga 22:45
Well, you need to fight for it. I don’t think you can assume that there’s some sort of inertia with membership, either growing your membership or retaining your membership, if you’re just going to keep the same model that you had yesterday. I there has to be value propositions within your I mean, I know they say it’s not transactional, and you know, you should do this for the good of community. I think there’ll be a good percentage of companies that believe that, but it’s going to erode when a recession happens. I think you gotta find your value proposition, whether directly or indirectly. And you know, you gotta have your why, like, why do I need you part of the you know why. And for us, it’s Milwaukee without the Metropolitan walk. Association of Commerce is in Milwaukee without the Milwaukee Brewers. It’s in Milwaukee without the Milwaukee Bucks. It’s a Milwaukee without a river that’s being cleaned up, that’s going to return native species of fish and cleaning up chemicals from 100 years ago that are at the bottom of the river. It’s a Milwaukee that has huge financial issues, as opposed to solvency day. So we, we, our value proposition is, imagine a Milwaukee without a Mac and you think, oh gosh, and walk without, without. That is not a city I want to live in. It’s not a city I can recruit talent to. So you got to get there. And I think non dues revenue is has to be part of your plan. For us, our non dues revenue continues to grow and grow and grow, and we are hungry after growing that our health insurance plan and combination United Healthcare has been very, very good for us, and that continues to grow. And not only is it good for our revenue, but it’s clearly a solution to our members, and we actually offer it to non members as well, which is why they’re purchasing it. I mean, they wouldn’t purchase it, but wasn’t a value for them. So they’re they’re saving money. We’re making money. It looks like we’re going to go to market with some other innovative things revolving around maybe 401, Ks to help reduce costs and give access to some of the HR tools that larger companies would have. So it’s a twofer, but I think you really need to focus on you. A stream for that non dues revenue to diversify your revenue streams, because I’m just leery that the philanthropy and the community involvement will be as strong as it has been in years past in America.

Brandon Burton 25:18
Well, I think in that explanation you just gave the what the new tagline, or slogan for the Milwaukee, you know, MMAC should be, you know, think of Milwaukee without the bucks, without the brewers. Yeah, that’s what we do, right?

Dale Kooyenga 25:32
Yeah. And this is very specific to Milwaukee, and I know, and I’ll just give it put me it means a lot to us, a whole lot to us. But the biggest one is, imagine a Milwaukee without, and I can name it doesn’t mean, I think to you, but without a st Marcus, without a Milwaukee Academy of Sciences, without an odd prep. And what those schools represent, I just said, is, they represent very high performing schools that are in parts of Milwaukee with high poverty. And one of the things I think my predecessor, if he had, if I had to choose one accomplishment to put on his on his marker someday, say, This is what Tim Sheehy accomplished. Is Tim Sheehy alongside a former superintendent of walk public schools here in 1991 so this is not working when you try something radically different. And that’s where the concept of school choice came from, and now you see the concept of school of choice growing nationally. And they came out of Milwaukee. It came out of MMAC, and our relationship with a gentleman named Howard Fuller, and now that has grown not only in Wisconsin, but it’s grown to a national concept that parents should be able to decide where to send their kids based on your academic standards and based on your principles, whether that be rooted in religion or ethics, whatever that is. And so that’s, that’s the big, bold change. And I think, you know, chambers and associations do need to take some risk. I mean, you can’t just always put your weight on a topic that you have 100% agreement on because if you have 100% agreement on it, you’re probably not getting after a social injustice. You’re probably not getting after an issue in your community, because there are people and sometimes institutions that are rooted in social injustices, and you need to get out to that. So I would also argue, as I talk about, you know, being smart and being pragmatic, that doesn’t mean that you’re always safe. And in the long run, I think you’ll be rewarded for taking some risk and taking some big issues head on.

Brandon Burton 27:36
I agree. I think that’s that was very well said. Well, Dale, as we wrap things up, I wanted to give you a chance to share any contact information for listeners who may want to reach out and connect with you and learn more about how you guys are doing things and taking care of business there in Milwaukee. What would be the best way for someone to reach out and connect LinkedIn?

Dale Kooyenga 27:56
Send me a LinkedIn message, D, A, L, E, and his last name’s K, o, o, y, E, N, G, A, and I am the only Dale coin go in the world. So you will not be confused with a another deal coin go.

Brandon Burton 28:08
That’s good. Well, we’ll get a link to your LinkedIn account in our show notes for this episode too, to make it nice and easy and they don’t need to worry about spelling if they’re in the car driving or wherever they’re doing. Sounds good. Dale, it’s been great having you on the show. I appreciate you taking some time to be with us and share some of the impact and and your perspective as you entered the chamber world and and how chambers can make a bigger impact in their communities. I really appreciate you sharing your insights with us today.

Dale Kooyenga 28:37
Thanks, Brandon, thanks for having me. If

Brandon Burton 28:39
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Greater Sarasota Chamber-2024 Chamber of the Year Finalist with Heather Kasten

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

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You’re joining us for a special episode in our 2024 chamber of the year finalist series, and our guest for this episode is Heather. Kasten. Heather is the President and CEO of the Greater Sarasota Chamber of Commerce. Heather is from a small town just outside of St Louis, Missouri, and has been in the Sarasota region for over 14 years. She’s currently the present CEO. Prior to coming to the Greater Sarasota Chamber of Commerce, she was the President CEO of the Lakewood Ranch Business Alliance for five years in St Louis, she worked for Eli Lilly Pharmaceuticals and Six Flags Theme parks in a variety of regional management roles. Heather’s community involvement includes membership on the board of directors for career source, Suncoast, United Way Suncoast the educational foundation of Sarasota County. And she also serves on several local advisory councils, including the USF Muma College of Business Advisory Board and the 26 West Entrepreneurship Center Advisory Board. She completed leadership Sarasota in 2014 and leadership Florida in 2023 Heather received her undergraduate degree from the University of Iowa in Business Administration, and she has an MBA from Webster University in management marketing. Heather and her husband, Clint, of 32 years and their three children enjoy calling Sarasota their home, but Heather, I am excited to have you with us today here on Chamber Chat Podcast. And first of all, want to say a big congratulations to you and your team for being selected as a chamber of the year finalists. Very exciting, but I want to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the Chamber Champions that are out there listening, and to be able to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better.

Heather Kasten 3:00
Great. Well, thank you so much Brandon for having me today. I’m truly honored our entire team here at the Sarasota chamber. We are so thrilled and just blown away to have this recognition from ACCE. We’re really looking forward to Dallas and just so grateful for this wonderful opportunity. You know, something unique about me, I would have to say, you know, going back to my years at Six Flags Theme Parks, a lot of people, my husband, used to joke that I run the rides. And truth be told, on some of those early spring days before all the high school kids, everybody from the CEO, all levels of management. We’re working in the park for those early spring days. And so, you know, it’s just, it’s not too often you talk with somebody who actually, you know, worked on the ride. Worked on the rides. Mine was the giant Ferris wheel, so got very comfortable saying you keep your arms and legs and hands inside the ride at all times. And, you know, working for a theme park, it’s, it’s fun, as you could imagine, just a wonderful place. Did a lot of events there for a lot of companies. And just a really great time, you know, in that period of my life,

Brandon Burton 4:19
yeah, did you ever have to dress up in costume at the theme park.

Heather Kasten 4:22
We did have to, every ride had a ride costume outfit. So absolutely so you never knew, you know, if you were talking with a high schooler kid or you were talking with the CEO of, you know, the of the park, because we were all out there, all pitching in on those, you know those early spring days

Brandon Burton 4:42
still in all the secrets That’s awesome. Well, tell us about the greater Sarasota chamber. Give us an idea of the size of your chamber, staff, size, budget, scope of work, just to kind of set the stage for our discussion. Sure.

Heather Kasten 4:56
So our chamber, we have been around for 100 And four years, you know, going back to the early days, some of our things you know that we focused on, as you can imagine, Florida, going back 100 years ago, things like good roads, mosquito management, you know, competing for for tourism, you know, trying to get people from the northeast to come down and invest into the state of Florida, and obviously our scope of work have has truly evolved over the last 104 years. But we work with about 1400 local companies that employ about 60,000 employees in the region. Our team here, I always say we’re small but mighty. We have 12 full time and three part time team members. And, you know, I know we’ll get into the discussion about some of the program, programmatic work that we do here. It’s truly incredible what this small body of people, what we’re able to accomplish with with that, you know, tide of a ship we have. You know, we’re always looking to diversify our economy. Sarasota, as you can imagine, very big in tourism and real estate. And a lot of the work that we do, you know, is in that economic development space of trying to support other industries that make our community a little bit more resilient during, you know, economic downturns. So I know we’re going to talk about some of our programs later. We’ll, we’ll get into that, but we do a good portion of, you know, probably close to over, well over 100 events per year, ranging in size and scope, something you know, small and and more, you know, intimate type of events for 20 to 25 people, all the way up to last Friday, we hosted our Small Business Awards with over 600 people in a significant wait list on that event. Our but annual budget is about $1.8 million in annual revenue. And out, we’ll get into it a little bit. But just, you know, we’re finding that, you know, getting away from solely relying on membership dollars and some of these programs that we’ve kind of brought under the umbrella, you know, have really helped to, you know, fund the mission and the work that we’re doing here at the Sarasota chamber. That’s

Brandon Burton 7:20
great. Yeah, anytime you can talk about non dues revenue, ways to bring in the dollars, please feel free to interject that into our conversation. Today, I find it interesting where a community where tourism could be viewed as kind of the bread and butter of the community, to be able to have your mindset on economic development, what do we do as you know, to keep the community thriving economically, even if there’s a downturn or in different times of the year, where maybe tourism is not as popular, although in Florida, the weather’s always beautiful, right? Yeah, so for the majority of our conversation today, we’ll focus on the two programs or submitted on your chamber the year application, and we’ll dive into the details and what those programs are all about. As soon as we get back from this quick break.

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App My Community creates mobile apps that allow you to engage directly with your community. Enhance chamber membership by providing a unique advertising and communication channel to residents and visitors. Not just a member directory, App My Community has the tools to be useful to residents on a daily basis. Learn more at appmycommunity.com/chamberchat.

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All right, Heather, we. Are back, if you would please introduce to us what the first program is you’d like to address. It was on your chamber of the year application, and kind of what the origins of it were, and why that became an area of interest for your chamber to address.

Heather Kasten 10:17
Sure, the first program is called Career Edge, and we have a very, very strong workforce arm here called Career source Suncoast, which works very closely in that workforce space. They deal with a lot of federal dollars. About 14 years ago, a program was created called Career Edge, which was funded by private funders, so foundations, locally and really at a national level, funded put money into this fund, the Career Edge fund. And what we do with that money is we look at what are the top industries, we look at the employers in our region, what are their needs? And then, what are some career pathways where someone can get kind of that first level certification and really be put on a path, on a career ladder, or journey, you know, to be able to make more money over the course of their lifetime. And so for us in our region, the five industries that we really honed in on were insurance, automotive, healthcare is huge, and that’s what we started with 14 years ago, manufacturing and then the trade. So think about HVAC, plumbing, electrical. We’ve we’ve moved a little bit into some logistics and transportation as well as some technology and as well as, you know, being on the coast of Florida marine technology, so you know, the ability to work on on boats and and marine products. But what we do is we partner with a training provider. So it could be a locals. Could be our local state college of Florida. It could be an independent private training provider. We talk with our employers. First, we find out what their needs are, we find a training partner, and then we market the program. We market it through here in Sarasota, and even within our chamber, we have over 200 nonprofits who are connected with a lot of these folks who are, you know, they’re, you know, in a minimum wage job, it could be fast food, it could be, you know, it could even be someone within a current company, someone working the linen room at the hospital, that someone sees some potential impossibility. And then we put these folks through the training in one of these industry segments. We fully fund that training. If it involves buying tools. We purchase the tools if it involves, if it’s healthcare and they need certain, you know, vaccinations, or, you know, all of those things are funded. We put them through the training, and then we place them in chamber member companies. So it’s a win for the individual. It’s a win for these companies. And when you look at the opportunities that are put before these people who participate in the training, it really does, you know, change the trajectory of their lifetime, incoming, you know, income potential. It’s such a phenomenal program over the course of the 14 years. I mean, we literally have trained 1000s of individuals and placed them with local companies.

Brandon Burton 13:28
That’s awesome. So you shared a few examples of how you find these, these young people, to get into the program. But are there other examples of how you find them to kind of fill that pipeline and pull the intro. I love that example, somebody working in the linen department in the hospital or something. But what are some of those resourceful ways of finding these people to join the program?

Heather Kasten 13:50
Yeah, well, the cohorts, you know, we put them through because we do a lot of hand holding and shepherding these cohorts. We do them in groups of 15, usually is kind of the magic number, and it can be, like I said, our community partners, our nonprofits, be surprised. You know, even the churches, you know, somebody’s grandson is, you know, not on the right path, and grandma refers them to us. It they come all different ways. You know, of course, we do the traditional ways of, you know, we do a press release. But really, it’s so much more organic than that. It really comes from these partners, or even the Salvation Army, or, you know, could be any of our any of the nonprofits that we work with that refer them. And then, you know, these people, you know they’re where they are for a reason. You know, they’ve had some life circumstances that have happened to them, and so we have a dedicated person, our Career Edge manager, who really comes alongside of these folks and helps them. If they miss a class, he’s calling them, Hey, why’d you miss class last night? Oh, your car broke down. Guess what? I’m going to send over a couple of Uber gift cards. Cards. Don’t miss class tonight. Here’s your ride to class. It’s that level of intention and detail that help get these folks across the finish line.

Brandon Burton 15:09
Yeah. And so are you able to put any kind of tracker on these? These people who go through the cohorts to see their their career development, and kind of get some check ins with them along the way.

Heather Kasten 15:21
We they are checked in with through the entire program. Now, once they come out of the program and they’re placed, it’s a little bit hard to, you know, keep tabs on that, but we have some incredible success stories. I mean, there’s, you know, there’s some folks that you know constantly reach back to us and say, you know, if it weren’t for you, I, you know, I’d still be flipping burgers, or I’d still be, you know, whatever the you know, the minimum wage job is. But we do have, every year that program, we hire an independent third party evaluator. So it’s not just, you know, the chamber and career beating our chest of like, Oh, look at the great work we did. We fund an independent evaluator to come in and really evaluate the work. Look at the wage increases like we track, okay, what wage, when they started this program, they were at this wage, and when they completed the program, they were at this wage. And we can track those, you know, you know, those differentials between, you know, when they started and when they completed the program. And that’s how every year, we’re able to go out and get this private funding. And that is really what differentiates us from career source, Suncoast, which we refer people to them all the time because our money is private. There is no red tape. We make it as easy as possible to get these people into the program and then shepherd them through. That’s

Brandon Burton 16:42
wonderful. So I know for a lot of people, their experiences as they go into a career option or enter the workforce, they’re based upon their their experience, what they’ve seen from their parents or mentors that are in their life. And if they don’t have that example to look to or to be able to see what options are available a program like this is so crucial being able to just open their mind to what the options are and see, you know, just how big the world is and what they can do. Is there an application process to get into a cohort, and what kind of things are you looking for on an application to justify somebody joining the cohort? Yeah,

Heather Kasten 17:21
it really depends on which industry segment, you know, the insurance segment has different qualifications than the nursing than the electrical cohort. So it really does depend. There is an application process and we do do some personality testing. You know this we this funding is so crucial, and we want to have the absolute best return on investor investment for our funders. And so we do do some testing to see, you know, is this person you know are the odds that they are going to complete the program? And again, you have to keep in mind the population you know that you are dealing with. They, you know, they do come with some struggles and some, you know, some things from their past. We don’t just put them through the training. We also really incorporate some life skills training and some kind of emotional intelligence training, you know, interviewing skills. So they’re not going to their first interviewing and the first question they’re asking is, how much vacation time do I get? Really setting them up for success, helping them with their resume. So it’s, it’s much more than just a job training program.

Brandon Burton 18:25
Yeah, I love that. I love seeing the opportunities for people to develop their careers and see their horizons be widened. So I can just imagine that the sense of pride that you see as these people go through the program,

Heather Kasten 18:38
it really is. Brandon, yeah.

Brandon Burton 18:42
So as we change gears to the other program on your application, tell us what that’s about.

Heather Kasten 18:49
So our another program that we have, we have gotten private funding for through one of our local foundations, is called our opportunities for all program, and it has kind of two prongs. The first prong focuses on interns. So placing minority interns, uncovering what their interests are, and then placing them with companies that they can learn and grow through an eight week internship process. And we fully fund that so the employers, you know, hold those pay stubs. And at the end of the eight week internship, they submit us, you know, the pay stubs to us, and then we reimburse that company fully up to $3,000 for that eight week internship. We also, this year, something new. We added, we added an intern half day conference called spark, and that was actually just held this past week. We had about 70 local interns, 30 of which were our opportunities for all interns, but did a half day workshop on again, resume, building, networking, mentoring, how to, you know, connect with others, how to build their personal brand and and now. Work. So that’s really exciting. These are interns who really would not have had any opportunity like this to actually work within a company and get paid in their field of interest. The other prong for the opportunities for all program is minority business grant funding. So this program has been around for about four years. And last year, for example, we had, we had probably close to 100 minority businesses apply. We funded 20 of that the 100 that had applied, and we deployed about $100,000 so each minority business, you know, had different asks. For some, it was, I need, you know, some support to market my company. So we’ve, you know, funded, you know, six months of some social media advertising. For some it was capital things like a laptop, so that they could get their finances out of, maybe their personal checking and into QuickBooks and onto a laptop computer. Every ask was was different. The grants were anywhere from 1000 to $10,000 in nature. And then we really support these. These 20 companies, all were granted chamber memberships. We have programming throughout the year to support them, entrepreneurial classes that we partner with 26 West, which is our business incubator here in Sarasota, to again come alongside of them and give them resources, solutions, and also funding to really help build their businesses. And that has been so rewarding as well. We’ve got some incredible success stories of companies that, you know, have gone from, you know, someone kind of doing it as a side hustle, to, you know, being able to, you know, quit their corporate job and, you know, really come over into that entrepreneurial space.

Brandon Burton 21:54
Yeah, those $1,000 grant applications, when you said that that really pulls at my heart strings. Somebody’s needing to ask for for that amount to be able to make their business work. And I almost just on the amount, want to make sure that those ones are awarded. But it’s got to be tough to go through that many applications and and find where the money goes. Yeah. So with both of these programs, you’ve you’ve mentioned the chamber is kind of foot in the bill for a lot of these things, whether it’s helping get supplies for someone entering a workforce, or the vaccinations or reimbursing their their pay for the eight weeks in the internship. Do you mind speaking a little bit to how these are funded? You mentioned they’re both privately funded. So how do you go about funding these programs? So we

Heather Kasten 22:45
have started again. We we really track our funders. So Career Edge being that it’s been around for 14 years, we probably have eight to 10 funders, and we have two very large foundations here within Sarasota who really believe in that mission of workforce and upskilling workers. So they are great funders. The best thing you know when you’re out looking at grants is the flexibility of grants. You know, there’s some grants that are so limiting and narrowing that it’s just impossible to fulfill. You know, the request of the grants. And what’s nice about the foundations that we work with, they, you know, they support the funding of staff to run these programs. Because, as we all know, these programs do not run themselves. So without the funding for actual staff, these programs, they couldn’t occur. They couldn’t couldn’t happen. And so, you know, we, every year, are looking at, you know, private foundations, whether it be the Walmart Foundation, whether it’s Boeing foundation, you know, there are foundations who, you know, you really have to invest the time to find out, you know, what their missions are and what they invest in. And we’ve spent a lot of time doing that. And that’s really how we’ve, you know, come to have funders for both Career Edge and then, you know, funders for the opportunities for all program. These are foundations that, again, believe in this work. We’re doing the work, and they, you know, they fund it every year.

Brandon Burton 24:17
That’s awesome. Yeah, you guys have put in the work, for sure, that’s That’s great. So I like asking, especially as you guys are a chamber, that you’re a finalist. Chambers across the country are looking to you guys in your example, so no pressure. But for what kind of tips or action item might you share for a listener who is looking to take their chamber up to the next level.

Heather Kasten 24:44
You know, I’ve thought a lot about that question, and one of the things I think, well, I’ll share two things. First is process in the chamber world. It does, you know, we don’t stop, right? It is, you finish one event and you’re on to the next. Next 10. So I’m a big believer in, you know, setting up processes for everything that occurs under the roof of a chamber. And that way, you know, when you do have turnover, which we all do, you know, you’ve got a trail of breadcrumbs for that next person to come in and follow. So, big believer in process. And then, you know, I would say secondly, as chamber leaders, the importance of really taking care of your staff. I want to be able to look myself in the mirror and say, I’ve done everything in my power to keep the staff intact, to keep them encouraged and motivated and challenged, not overwhelmed. I don’t want anyone showing up to work feeling, you know, worn down, ragged out, exhausted, overwhelmed, that’s I don’t want to show up at a place and work like that. And so I would say, the last two to three years, we’ve just been really hyper intentional of the things that we’re doing with our staff making sure that, you know, we’re having early outs in the summer. We’re planning fun activities. We we’ve got a beautiful new aquarium coming up in our town, and just last week, took the team to do a behind the scenes tour. You know, nobody else got this opportunity but the chamber team. So I’m always looking for unique and special things to really bless them with. And, you know, just make sure that they are feeling good about the work and energized about the work. And you know, that’s something that you have to do with intention. It doesn’t just happen. And the timing is never good. You can say, Oh, well, we’ve got this big thing next week. Well, guess what? After next week, there’s going to be the next big thing. So making sure that you’re taking time to, you know, really engage your staff and build a culture that is one where people want to come and show up and work, and then for the chamber leaders and the CEOs, make sure, you know, in the the airline world, make sure you’re putting your oxygen mask on as well, because you cannot pour into members, pour into your board, pour into your staff if you aren’t refreshed and and, you know, refueled yourself. And so making sure that you’re taking that time and listen. I need, I need this advice as much as anybody I’m giving it as if I’m, you know, you know, I buy into it. And we really do have to plan those intentional days, you know, a half day, even if it’s once a quarter, where you get out of the office and you clear your head and you give some thought to working on the business instead of working in the business. Those would be my couple of tips. Brandon,

Brandon Burton 27:43
yeah. Fact, when you said process at the beginning, my mind went to where you just ended with to be able to take that pause and to be able to to process what you went through. So if there’s a big event that you you’ve put on, to take time afterwards to process the how things went and evaluate and take a breather, put on that oxygen mask, and be able to kind of re energize for the next thing. But to your point about taking care of your staff, I’d love that example, yeah, taking them out to that aquarium that see the behind the scenes, something special just for your team. And of course, we want to be able to take care of them monetarily whenever you can. But we all know chambers don’t always have the funding to take care, to pay what they’re deserved, right? But to be able to have those opportunities really adds to that experience. And

Heather Kasten 28:34
you know, that’s something that you do have to be intentional about, too. You know, we I do want, I want our team to be paid as well as any, you know, regular corporate jobs. So I feel that’s my responsibility, is to, you know, find that money to bring in the resources so that anybody working here at the Sarasota chamber, you know, has a, has a really good, you know, way of life.

Brandon Burton 29:00
Yeah, you’re gonna be flooded with applications. Now, I’m just kidding. No. Seriously, though, Heather, this has been great. I’d like to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for listeners who’d like to reach out and learn more about how you guys are doing things there at the Greater Sarasota chamber.

Heather Kasten 29:19
Absolutely. Again, it’s Heather Kasten. My email is hkasten@sarasotachamber.com. I’d love to connect with with anyone. I love bouncing ideas off each other. The great thing about the chamber world is I feel like there’s so many opportunities to share best practices. You know, as long as it’s not you know, the Chamber up the street. You know, aside from that, I mean, the world is your oyster, right? For new ideas and fresh ideas. My office line here, 941-556-4050, and really, just excited, you know, love to to talk chamber stuff. So anyone who’d like to reach out and. Be happy to connect with you and learn you know, really enjoy learning more about you as well.

Brandon Burton 30:05
That’s awesome. I appreciate that, and that’s the whole point of the show, right? Share those best practices and be able to help people connect. So we’ll, we’ll post your contact information in our show notes for this episode so people can find it there. But Heather, this has been great. I’ve enjoyed having you on the show and have I wish you and your team best of luck. It’s chamber of the year in Dallas.

Heather Kasten 30:26
We’re so excited we can’t wait. Thanks so much bringing in for your you know the opportunity today. Really enjoyed our conversations.

Brandon Burton 30:35
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