Category: Finances

Negotiating Compensation & Benefits with Bob Thomas

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your hosts Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

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Our guest for this episode is Bob Thomas. Bob is the Chief Operating Officer and integrator for the Michigan Chamber of Commerce and Executive Director for the Michigan Chamber Foundation. Bob is a widely respected chamber and Association Executive with over 27 years of experience in the nonprofit industry. He served as the primary operations staff member since 2012 Bob is responsible for day to day operations of the chamber, including facilities, technology and information systems, human resources and finance. Bob also assists with strategic planning, revenue development, membership and meetings management. His accomplishments include assisting the chamber to achieve three designations as an accredited State Chamber with distinction as executive director for the Michigan chamber foundation. Bob oversees alignment and direction of its leadership programs, public policy, research and events related to free enterprise, competitiveness, leadership and entrepreneurship. Bob, I’m excited to have you with us today here on Chamber Chat Podcast. I’d love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the Chamber Champions who are out there listening, and to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better. Hey,

Bob Thomas 2:23
Chamber Champions, glad to finally make it on the Chamber Podcast, Chamber Chat Podcast, it’s my pleasure to be here. Interesting fact about me, I set a goal about 10 years ago to see all 50 states before I turned 50, and I checked my last state off the list this last year with Alaska. Alaska.

Brandon Burton 2:45
That’s a good that’s a good capstone for or your 50th state. It’s a beautiful state.

Bob Thomas 2:51
Great trip.

Brandon Burton 2:53
Yeah, for a lot of people, I know they wanted to be much higher on their list of places to be, and it probably was for you as well. It’s just a matter of getting there.

Bob Thomas 3:00
That’s right, it’s probably the hardest one to get there, but it’s well, actually the Dakota is for the hardest one, because those weren’t necessarily a destination on my list, but I was actually pleasantly surprised everybody should actually make it to North and South Dakota as well.

Brandon Burton 3:15
Yeah, there you go. Shout out to North and South Dakota. Well, tell us a little bit about the Michigan chamber, just to give us an idea and set the stage for our discussion today, I usually like asking about the size of the chamber, staff, budget, scope of work. It’s a little bit different being a State Chamber, but give us the background and information on the Michigan chamber that could be helpful to listeners.

Bob Thomas 3:39
Sure. So we are a statewide Chamber of Commerce, one of almost 50 in the country. We are based here in the state’s capital, Lansing, Michigan. We’re just four blocks down from the State Capitol building. We have 29 staff, most of them are in our membership development and engagement teams. And then we have a $6 million budget, sometimes up to $8 million depending on whether or not and it’s an election year, because our main value proposition is certainly our advocacy components and how we connect our members to state government, legislators, other elected officials, and we pride ourselves on participating in the election process to help make sure that we’re getting pro business candidates there to represent Michigan’s over 200,000 businesses in the state. Yeah. So

Brandon Burton 4:35
as we’re recording this, this is the the first of November, 2024 so hopefully you guys are looking forward to a little bit of reprieve after next week with the with the elections, and be able to take a little bit of a sigh

Bob Thomas 4:47
of relief, hopefully, hopefully a sigh of relief. But

Brandon Burton 4:52
nonetheless, right,

Bob Thomas 4:55
every election presents new opportunities for us to represent our members and so. We’ll see what that brings us next week.

Brandon Burton 5:01
Yeah, fantastic. Well, as we get into our topic today, I think this is one of those topics that everyone listening can relate to in one way or another, as we talk about focusing our conversation around negotiating compensation and benefits. And I think you know, depending on where you are in your your career at a chamber, if you’re just starting out, if you’re just looking to get in to the chamber industry, or if you’re a long time seasoned chamber veteran, or somebody on the tail end of your career, hopefully we’ll be able to touch on on all those different aspects throughout this episode, as as Bob’s with us today to share some of his insights, and we’ll we’ll dive in much deeper on this topic. As soon as we get back from this quick break.

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All right, Bob, we’re back, and as I mentioned before the break, we’re talking today about negotiating compensation and benefits, which I know can be a very important topic for for those in the chamber world, but really for anybody. But also it can be a very uncomfortable topic for somebody to approach and to to say, here’s what I need. And just having some of those conversations that can be a little more difficult. So I’m hopeful that our in our conversation today, that we’ll be able to come, come out of this with some takeaways that could be helpful in giving that that encouragement and that support to help people have those conversations. So I’m going to hand the hand the mic over to you and share with us what what comes to mind first, when you when you think about negotiating compensation benefits, maybe from the perspective of somebody new or just coming into the chamber world,

Bob Thomas 8:28
sure. Well, I think most of the listeners can commiserate that we didn’t necessarily join the chamber for the money, that there are probably lots of other opportunities out there for us to make more money, but they don’t always necessarily line up with our life circumstance, our passion points, or even, you know, what we’re committed to doing as a career and so and that makes it sometimes more difficult when we’re talking about negotiating or asking for compensation that matches our unique abilities and the skills that we’re bringing to the table, because the budgets don’t always necessarily match what those abilities are. But I would say, you know, for folks who are looking at a chamber job, or are earlier in their career on a chamber job, there’s lots of questions that they should be asking themselves before they go into the negotiating process so that they’re best prepared to ask for what is reasonable and appropriate for their level of job. And the first one, I think, that we tend to overlook is what is the market actually paying for these jobs? And and on one hand, we could be looking at, you know, similar organizations, other nonprofits, or other chambers of commerce that have similar markets, but that data isn’t always accurate or fair to the talents that we’re bringing to the table. So I would always encourage folks to also look at. Are similar jobs paying in the private sector and to see what is a good match, you know? So if I’m a marketing and membership person, what are other marketing level jobs paying for similar size organizations? Or if I’m an accountant, you know, what are other accounting jobs paying for summer situation? So that’s the first one. I just know what is the market even available for that kind of a position? Yeah, I think

Brandon Burton 10:26
if you’re, if we’re strictly looking at other nonprofits, you’re going to immediately put yourself as at a little bit of a disadvantage, because I think chamber staff, they wear so many hats, and it’s not, it’s not necessarily like other nonprofit organizations, where you have the scope, and that’s that’s all you do, because everybody brings everything to the chamber and expect you to be magicians and figure it out. So if you can bring that skill set and say, here’s where these things fit in the private sector, this is what I’m worth. I think that’s great advice, yeah,

Bob Thomas 10:55
but with a caveat, because sometimes the first place where we shoot ourselves in the foot is we look at large mass market surveys like salary.com or Glassdoor, and those are really helpful to kind of give you a range, but that’s an average of lots of different size organizations, and so sometimes we either are over inflated, or, in the case of other nonprofits, under representing what our value potentially is to the organization. So I would say, especially if you’re already in the chamber world and you have access to your state survey or to the ACCE benchmarking data, those are great places to look.

Brandon Burton 11:29
Yeah, that’s that’s good advice. Being able to see what what other peers are getting is very helpful.

Bob Thomas 11:38
And don’t be afraid to talk about it with the network. I think chamber folks are more transparent than others to help share where they’re at and how they can help lift each other up. Yeah, they’re also probably your best supporters. For you to figure out what your value is, again, chambers tend to attract a lot of servant type workers, and so we go in with the idea of, I love this work, I’m happy to do it, but we don’t always emphasize what our value is to the organization. And so then sometimes we take less or ask for less than what we are due because we love the work so much that we’ll, we’ll do it for less. Yeah, and that doesn’t always set yourself up for sell your set yourself up for a long term success if you’re going to start on the low end.

Brandon Burton 12:31
Now, I’m from the maybe on the hiring perspective. You know, as we’ve got a lot of executives that are listening, some their boards give a lot of leeway, not a lot, maybe, but a lot might be generous, but give them some leeway as far as what salary could be for staff and others are very tightly controlled by their board. So I hope through our conversation today, we can integrate some of that too. How do we approach this at the board and show where the value lies in bringing on staff and our own self worth as well.

Bob Thomas 13:06
Yeah, well, that’s actually my next point is understand what the decision making process is. So if you’re a staff member going to the executive and asking for a raise, or you’re trying to negotiate your compensation, I think the last thing most executives want is a surprise number. I think this is a regular conversation you should be having with your boss in general about what your long term expectations are for your career and for what your compensation will look like, and how that might ebb and flow based on your personal needs. And that would give them an idea about when they can be an advocate for you with the board, or when they need to be more transparent with the budget, but just to have that open conversation and when it does come down to board clamps that are really difficult to get away from, at least understand, when do they have to take it to the board, and when would it get shot down in that particular case, or when is there a leeway so that you can take advantage of those opportunities to grow your compensation, but definitely have that transparent conversation, either with your board chair, if you’re the exec, or with your boss, so that they know kind of what you’re thinking and where Your goals are long term.

Brandon Burton 14:20
Yeah, I think that’s that’s good. I like the idea of the long term expectations. Have those conversations being had along the way. Say, Yeah, I’m new to the chamber now, but you know, down the road, this is what, how I’d like to see my career develop. I’d like to be at the Chamber long term, or this is a stopping point for a year or two, while I finish my degree, or while I do whatever it may be, and just being open and transparent, I think, helps both sides figure out what’s what’s the best and what’s most fair as far as compensation goes, Yeah,

Bob Thomas 14:51
at least give your boss a chance to come back and say that’s probably not going to work. You know, if it’s not realistic to match with your budget or these are the things that. Need to change in order for us to be able to afford that. Or, yeah, we could do that, but this is how you need to progress within your position in order to achieve that number. I think when you have that conversation, that makes it easier. It’s less of a surprise and less uncomfortable year after year, if you’re starting off a transparent foot, right?

Brandon Burton 15:21
So I’m always curious about the the more seasoned chamber professional that chambers are unique and that you you’re tied in with your community. You’re, you’re running things in the community, you know all the players. You’re, you know, convening. You’re bringing people together. But some seasoned chamber professionals feel the only way to advance in their career is to move to another community, to take another position at maybe a larger chamber. Is that true, or is that a fallacy? How can that seasoned chamber professional approach growth within their career path?

Bob Thomas 15:57
While I’ve seen that in Michigan and really with some of my colleagues from across the country, that is a real opportunity. And if you’re willing to up your route yourself and move to another community or another state, that probably is a great way to increase your compensation most quickly. But I don’t know that that’s realistic, especially for folks who have families or their kids are in school. You know you can potentially be looking at 12 to 15 years in a community where your kids are and that doesn’t really make it feasible for you to leave or perhaps your spouse or partner has a great job and they’re not willing to leave that either. So you know, there are lots of different reasons why you might have strings to a community that doesn’t make it easy for you to move to another community for a better paying job. And so when you think about that, those are the times to think about. You know, how can you grow the pot or the resources? How do you communicate with your board, what your intent is for staying with the chamber? I think most boards would find comfort in knowing that they’ve got some longevity in a leader for their organization, but not all. And so making sure that you’re going to bat for yourself with those folks who are also holding the purse strings to understand your value and to be able to negotiate that. And so one of the suggestions I have in those cases, especially if you’re in a community longer than five years, you should be creating that pat on the back file and documenting what your impact is every year so that you can show progress or achievements that you’ve been making within the chamber and remind the board what you’re doing in order to make that impact and how the chamber is progressing, and then try and link whatever your request is to organization goals. So if the board’s interest is in growing revenue, or if it’s in growing membership, tie your request for increasing compensation to those accomplishments and show how you’re going to get there or how you’ve achieved it, and why you’re due additional compensation. I know that a lot of chambers, especially if you’re small and mid sized, don’t always have the growth in revenue that would allow a year over year increase regularly. So a couple other solutions that you might ask for in lieu of a one time jump. And I know a lot of chambers, I’ve been successful with this, most recently, because of the inflationary increases, is try and phase it in over a period of time. So rather than going from a 2% increase to a 10% increase, could you do a two to five to seven or 10% increase over two or three years, that makes it more palatable for the board to absorb, and gives you more time to raise the resources to help fund that. Another one would be to think about alternatives to dollars. So if the short term need is that you need to pay for child care, or you’ve got an increased commute, could you ask for a car allowance or a child care stipend for that period of time rather than asking for a raise? So for boards, that’s a short term cash solution that helps retain you, that’s not necessarily tied to long term increases, but gets you through the things that you need in order to continue to work at the chamber. So those are just a couple of suggestions. If you’re not able to negotiate a large increase, figure out and have a transparent conversation about what do you need so that you can help bridge that gap.

Brandon Burton 19:36
Yeah, I like the idea of even being open to alternatives, too, to be able to say, here’s here’s some of the struggling or the pain points that I’m seeing and how obstacles that I need to be able to overcome in order to stay in this position. Yeah. How can you help me accomplish this? And again, it goes back to having that open and transparent conversation, which, if you’re doing the job that you need to be doing, there. Going to want to retain you and keep you there, and hopefully they’ll work with you to do that. I always think of especially with the the executive position, where you’re often in the same conversations with the city manager or the school superintendent and and you look at the salaries that these individuals are having, and you’re all working towards progress in the community in different ways, from different angles. And I think my personal opinion is the compensation should be a little closer to what they’re making, keeping in mind that everything you know, they have different responsibilities and whatnot as well. But if you’re expected to be in the same room, in the same conversations, the same table, with these other decision makers, these other influencers in the community, compensation should be more in that ballpark than having them way up here in the chamber, exec way down there. I don’t know if you have any other thoughts at that, or how to approach that, or bring that up at the board, yeah,

Bob Thomas 21:00
well, that is a great point, and making sure that in strategic planning, you’re talking with your board about what are the expectations of your leadership as the exec, and that if you are supposed to carry the same weight in that room, you know compensation is one element, access to resources, being able to commit to positions or have a conversation without always having to go back to the board. Are important elements that, you know, help create that equity, but they also have different pots of money and different resources than a lot of chambers. Sometimes it’s a much broader, bigger pot because of the tax base versus private volunteer investment in dues. But to that point, if a chamber Exec is able to garner those resources and they can start to match or create a fund that allows them to pay for that position, then absolutely the board should be looking at at that as some of those comparables in terms of position or responsibility, and so to that point, be thoughtful about who is on your compensation committee and helping to make those decisions. So are they other small business people who look at your compensation and you know, are looking at it through a lens about have and have not, or are they leaders in the community who recognize what the investment is in the chamber in order to move the agenda forward, and so also be thoughtful about are there elected leaders who are on that compensation committee who maybe aren’t making as much as the chamber director? Because in some cases, it could be a downtown development person, or it could be a city manager who isn’t clearing that that same kind of salary compensation, and so just be thoughtful about how you have staffed that compensation committee in order to give yourself the fairest shake possible. That’s

Brandon Burton 22:58
a really good point. Just being intentional about that. Who’s on there? What? What perspectives are they coming from, and how do they perceive you compared to themselves or others that they might see in a similar light as yourself? That’s That’s great advice. So you mentioned a couple different alternatives to compensation. Are there other other thoughts you have around alternatives, or maybe other ideas that it because sometimes to get to that outside the box thinking, some ideas need to be brought to the table. You can’t just say, here’s the problem. Solve it, right? As chamber leaders, chamber staff like we’re in the business of solving problems, so I think to be able to bring some ideas of alternatives to the table could be helpful.

Bob Thomas 23:46
Yeah, I mean, I think executives a lot of times don’t recognize the art that comes to their budgets, and sometimes the easiest money that they that they leave on the table are performance bonuses or bonuses tied to metrics that you’ve improved. So are there opportunities to ask for a percentage of net increase or percentage of margin at the end of the year or at the end of a quarter for exceptional performance? So maybe you had an event that you really knocked out of the park and it cleared a major revenue hurdle with sponsorship, or you had a bang up here with membership and fundraising. Are you asking for a percentage at the end of the year as part of that performance bonus? And that’s something that could waiver or change from year to year, that could be negotiated, or maybe it’s something that you build into an employment agreement, so that is something that you can count on and the board can budget for every year. I think that’s the first thing that’s easiest to budget for and also ask for. But other things, you know, chambers are amazing organizations to work with in terms of flexibility and because we work. Lots of different hours based on our event schedules or needs of the organization. You know, having that flexibility to come and go from the office or come and go from events is a tremendous one. So if you’re not actively using that as a method of your compensation or employment agreement, that could be something in lieu of compensation that you might not get at a for profit organization, professional development budgets, again, those are things that could be incorporated into your budget, especially if you’re looking to complete a degree. It’s a short term increase that could be a pre tax benefit, or maybe it could be negotiated with local university or college that would help defray the cost and only helps make you more marketable and equitable in your organization, ask for PTO vacation or personal days. Maybe you want Fridays off in the summertime that can be negotiated. Or is there something else in benefits, you know, asking for another percentage increase in a 401, K, or asking for things that don’t necessarily have direct tied to your bottom line, but they are ways that can increase your total package. So, you know, being thoughtful about what do you need or what do you want, and are there ways for the chamber to pay for it as part of your employment, rather than coming out in a paycheck, per se?

Brandon Burton 26:30
Yeah, and I think a lot of these things you wouldn’t necessarily have to feel at the bottom line of a chamber budget, some of these considerations, so I like this, especially the professional development budget, because there’s a lot of different ways to approach that and and ways to advance yourself and in your ability as a as a chamber leader.

Bob Thomas 26:52
Great. I know what’s Yeah, one last one is, if the chamber is not able to afford any additional increases, but they could flex some of your time. Are there creative arrangements that you could make with your board to allow you to do an outside employment opportunity? So are you available to consult? Are you available to do some marketing activity? You know, depending on what your skills are, would the chamber allow you to have some of those outside contracts that would help you supplement your income, that don’t necessarily compete with what the chamber does, but absolutely leverage your skills and give you access to a network that would help you build a side business that can be helpful, especially for people toward the end of their career, where the chamber just isn’t going to grow fast enough for you to see that in your compensation, But it would give you a runway or a launchpad into a post retirement career.

Brandon Burton 27:46
And say, I’ve seen a lot of people do that, that transition towards the end of the career, where they go into a consulting gig or marketing or, you know, some something in that realm, and and I assume with a lot of them, that that may have been a consideration along the way, towards the end of their careers, being able to to start something, because they didn’t necessarily just end their their job at the Chamber one day and then start their consulting gig the next day. Usually, it’s been something that’s kind of been building up, kind of in the background, but gaining some momentum as well. How have you seen that be successful for people making that transition from chamber life to more of the entrepreneur, taking it on on their own towards the end of the career? So

Bob Thomas 28:31
I’ve probably seen it be less successful more often than I’ve seen more successful in the sense that if you aren’t keeping care of the chamber as your first priority while also working on the second option. Things tend to end badly, because then people see that you have divided attention. But if you’re able to have those two things coexist, and you can use the resources of the chamber, and you know also the goodwill of your board to do both, then that works, but you do really have to be thoughtful and know that your first obligation is to the chamber, and then the second is that you can build those other things with strategic PTO, you know, or, you know, leveraging some of the relationship relationships you have with members to get additional referrals. So that’s where I would see it be most successful is when you’re able to keep your eye on both balls at the same time. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 29:31
yeah. That’s that’s a good point. One other thing I wanted to just touch back on you had mentioned, like, if you had a bang up here with with your membership or sponsorships or the certain event that’s driving in revenue to to try to get a portion of that back to as a some sort of a bonus, or, you know, performance related bonus. And in a big sense, that’s it’s sort of found money. You know, if you’re going above and beyond what the expectations were, I mean, every, ideally, every dollar coming in should have a purpose, right? That’s coming in. But if you can benchmark that, or kind of dog your that on the front end, and say, every dollar coming in has its purpose, but above this, this threshold, the purposes shift a little bit, and I get rewarded for the work that’s going in.

Bob Thomas 30:24
I think I’ve seen lots of chamber and sex do a fantastic job, and they end up with the year in the black, and then they’re building this reserve account, and they’ve got a major surplus, but they haven’t ever asked for a bonus. They’re just looking at their salary as the only compensation they bring in. And if you’ve done that great of a job that year and you’ve cleared all those hurdles, that should be the easy ask. It is money that’s waiting to be invested, and why not invest in your staff? Yeah,

Brandon Burton 30:56
absolutely. Well, are there any other considerations that we need to think of before we start to wrap up our conversation.

Bob Thomas 31:06
Just one is, you know when those conversations don’t work out in your favor? When should you start to have conversations with yourself or your family that maybe it is time to go? Because I do know that while we think and hope for the best with our boards or with our bosses. Sometimes the resources just aren’t there, or the recognition that the dollars could be invested as staff isn’t there either. And so maybe that’s the time when you’ve got to think, am I aligned with this work anymore? Is it worth the stress, or, you know, the effort that I’m putting into it is there are there other benefits that I would see outside of the chamber, and those are hard conversations, I know, especially because you love your job, or you love your members, and you love what you do, but there’s always a tipping point when it doesn’t necessarily work in your favor. And so also to have that open and honest conversation with yourself and with your board when the juice isn’t worth the squeeze anymore. And unfortunately, those conversations need to happen as regularly as they do when you’re asking for compensation, just to make sure that there’s alignment there with your personal goals and and know when to say when? Yeah, I

Brandon Burton 32:23
think that’s important to think about. And I, as I’ve seen it with a lot of executives as they exit their career, sometimes it comes back to a board member that they just can’t get along with. They can’t see I die. And rather than waiting out whatever is left in the term for that board member, they just see that as the better options to leave, because they can’t, they can’t make it work together. But it’s a whole nother discussion. And, you know, recruiting your board members to make sure you’ve got people on your board that you can work with and that you can move the ball forward and not have that kind of conflict, so that that’ll lead into a longer term ability at your chamber, if you’re if you’re the executive, if you’re staff, and you can’t get along with your boss, that’s a whole nother story. So Right?

Bob Thomas 33:11
And I would say probably in the most extreme case, and I’ve ran into a couple of chambers since the pandemic, where this has been more common than not, it’s never okay to work for free. So if cash flow has become an issue, or it’s a situation where the board is asking you to defer your compensation or just get through a slow period because of cash flow, in my opinion, that’s never okay. Everybody is worth a paycheck. And to be really thoughtful about, you know, what are the underlying issues that you don’t have cash that would make payroll, and in those particular cases, if they can’t afford you, let alone afford an increase that’s also not worth your time. So make sure that you’re holding your boards and yourself to the standard that you are worth the job of running a chamber is worth a paycheck. So I’m hoping there’s a lot of listeners out there that agree with me, and that nobody out there is not working for free, because that’s, in my opinion, just unacceptable. And I know it happens more often than we know about

Brandon Burton 34:18
Yeah, I 100% endorse that everyone is worth a paycheck. Yes. Well, Bob, as we start to wrap things up here, I like to see if there’s any kind of tip or action item for listeners who are looking to take their organization up to the next level. What would you suggest for them to try to implement to accomplish that goal,

Bob Thomas 34:39
specific around compensation, and, you know, asking for what you’re due or what you’re valued at, I would just say, you know, have an annual conversation with yourself about what’s important to you, what are your priorities, and how do you value those, both personally in terms of your own growth and development. And then also monetarily. What is that worth? What is your time worth to you and your family in order for you to achieve your goals? And then second is to share that and have an open conversation with the people who are making decisions about your compensation, so that you’re aligned. And if you’re not aligned, then you at least know where the line was, because I do find that people who are willing to have those open and honest conversations are more likely to negotiate things that work for everybody than to be denied or catch people by surprise. And so I guess that would be my advice is just to know yourself first and then second. Don’t be afraid to ask for it. Just have that open conversation.

Brandon Burton 35:43
I like it well, as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Bob Thomas 35:52
Well, this is a great time to ask that question, because I know ACCE is about to come out with our horizon 2.0 and I’m really excited about what that could look like for our chambers, in terms of a road map of things that we should be asking about. I find the chamber future to be bright, and I know that there’s a lot of movement and a lot of change right now. We’re seeing a lot of generational impact on what our chambers look like, but I also find that means the chambers that are disciplined to know what they’re all about and what value they bring to their communities, they’re going to find a business model that’s going to make them more relevant than ever. I always say, imagine what your community would look like without a chamber, and you’ve probably driven through it, definitely haven’t stopped in it. And so the chambers that have figured that out, or the communities that have figured that out, are supporting their chambers, and those chambers are vibrant, bright and offering a lot of value to the business community.

Brandon Burton 36:55
Yeah, yeah, I love that. But Bob, I like to ask everyone I have on this show. If there’s a listener who wants to reach out and connect with you, get to learn a little bit more about what we talked about today. What would be the best way, or where would you point them to reach out and connect with you?

Bob Thomas 37:10
Well, the easiest way is definitely through email, at the Michigan chamber B Thomas at MI chamber.com, or happy to connect with folks through my LinkedIn profile. LinkedIn slash Thomas Bob. Double check to make sure that was the right one. Yep,

Brandon Burton 37:31
there’s no other Bob Thomas, right.

Bob Thomas 37:35
There are a ton of Bob Thomas that would be the right Bob Thomas’s. LinkedIn slash Thomas, Bob, and would love to hear from my chamber colleagues, because I’ve worked at the Michigan Chamber for over 27 years, and these are some of my best friends and most valued relationships are in this community. So always glad to hear from them.

Brandon Burton 37:55
Very good. Well, we’ll get that in our show notes, including the LinkedIn, you know, the correct profile in LinkedIn to make it easy and have people find you, but I appreciate you setting aside some time to be with us today on chamber chat podcast and approaching this important topic, I mean it. It really does. It breaks my heart every time I see somebody exit the chamber world or and there’s a lot of different reasons, but when I see the good people leave for the private sector, I’m like, I wish we could keep them in the chamber world a little longer. So being able to have these conversations and hopefully keep some of these good ones in the chamber world as long as they want to be there, I think, is fantastic. So thank you for sharing this with us today.

Bob Thomas 38:38
Thanks for having me. It’s always good to have alumni if you’re not able to stay in the chamber. But I agree. I love working with chamber people, and it’s I’m glad when they’re able to work it out and they can stay.

Brandon Burton 38:50
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Massive Revenue Growth with Jimmy Lane

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Our guest for this episode is Jimmy lane. Jimmy is the president and CEO of the Cocoa Beach Regional Chamber in Florida. Since august 2009 Jimmy Lane has held seven distinct positions across two chambers of commerce, gaining comprehensive experience in every aspect of chamber operations. In November 2021 he assumed the role of president and CEO of the Cocoa Beach Regional Chamber of Commerce, embarking on an ambitious mission to reimagine the organization as a chamber of the future. Through his visionary leadership, Jimmy has successfully modernized the chamber, introducing innovative initiatives, fostering stronger member engagement and embracing cutting edge technology to better serve the community. This reimagined chamber has seen a remarkable 33% growth during his tenure, a reflection of Jimmy’s Forward Thinking Strategies under his guidance, a Cocoa Beach Regional Chamber was recently awarded the prestigious FACP chamber of the year in the 500,000 to $1 million category, a testament to the organization’s success and impact in 2022 Jimmy was also honored as one of ACCE’s 40, under 40, recognizing his influence as a rising leader in the chamber industry outside of the office, Jimmy’s greatest joy comes from being a dedicated father to his twins, Cameron and Blakely, whether it’s train them on at their soccer games or competitive cheer events, Jimmy’s deeply committed to being present in their lives. Despite his busy schedule, he ensures his family remains top priority, while also pursuing his personal passions for fitness and travel. Jimmy, I’m excited to have you with us today, here on Chamber Chat Podcast. I’d love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the Chamber Champions who are out there listening and share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better?

Jimmy Lane 3:01
Yeah, no, I’m excited about it. Thanks for having me. You mentioned the ACCE 40. Under 40, I think I made it by the announcement was about two weeks before I turned 40. So, you know, I used to have a coach that said, if you wait till the last minute, it only takes a minute. I’m not sure if that’s good advice. So that’s what happened there. I think you already said it a fun fact about me something interesting. I have twins. They’re 13 years old, boy and a girl, Cameron and Blakely, and they are my daughter. I say, is a chamber president in the making. She’s never met a stranger. She holds court wherever she goes. And her brother could be, could be alone, doing his own thing and be just fine with it. So I spent about almost, I think I started my 16th year in the chamber world, then with two different chambers, and seen some cool stuff. And I was actually telling somebody yesterday, when I originally got the opportunity at the Chamber in Forsyth County, Georgia, that I thought, Okay, I’ll be here three months. I’ll be here, you know, maybe a year. Let’s go meet some good people. And, you know, move on, and almost 16 years later, here we are. So, yeah,

Brandon Burton 4:03
that’s, that’s how the chamber world gets us, you know, that’s how I got into it. It was going to be a job to start my career, and then I was going to transition. It was just going to be two years, you know. And here I am, 18 years later,

Jimmy Lane 4:15
right, right, right. Yeah, I get it gets in your blood. Man,

Brandon Burton 4:20
that’s right for sure. Well, tell us a little bit about the Cocoa Beach Regional Chamber. Just give us an idea of the size of the chamber, scope of work, staff. You know, things you have going on there, just to kind of set the stage for our discussion today.

Jimmy Lane 4:35
Yeah, the Cocoa Beach Regional Chamber. It’s interesting. Those who know what US Chamber Institute program is my predecessor. I sat aside my very first year in Athens back in 2016 and she told me a lot about what was going on, and I and I remember thinking, dang, we don’t have it that bad. Or, you know, things aren’t as wonky. You know, in a. In the town, no, I say that jokingly, is a great community. We have eight staff. We are, we will be about a million dollars this year. When I first started, back in 2021, I think we’re about $625,000 and you know, the Chamber has had been that way for a long time. I mean, the roots go back over 100 years. But this iteration of it was 1968 it was formed, and it kind of stayed in that half a million to $750,000 range for a long time. Had as many as 1500 total members. And we’ve sort of redefined what that is. We know the idea of membership has changed quite a bit. And, you know, have changed, sort of our model, but it’s an it’s a neat community. We, you know, you hear about the SpaceX rocket launches and the Blue Origin rocket launches. Those happen here, really every week. I used to think a rocket launch that happens every 10 years, and literally, I get down here three years ago, and they’re happening all the time in my backyard. It’s one of the coolest things. And by the way, we have beaches and Disney’s, you know, 45 minutes an hour away, so it’s a pretty neat place to be. It’s pretty, pretty, pretty

Brandon Burton 6:10
cool. Yeah, that’s, that’s awesome. So I’m here in Texas, so we got the SpaceX headquarters here in Texas, yeah, yeah, very quick. It’s over there. So no that that sets the stage well for us is, as people can see in that the episode description today are the subject for our conversation is going to revolve around the massive revenue growth that that you guys have seen, especially in your time being there at the chamber, and I mentioned in your bio, 33% growth in just a few years. So that’s that’s something to remark about. So we’ll dive into that and find out what it is you guys are doing, the approach you’re taking and and get into it as soon as I get back from this quick break.

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All right, Jimmy, we’re back. As I mentioned before the break, I introduced our topic for today. So we’re going to focus on this, this massive revenue growth that you guys have seen as as you’ve taken the the helm there at the Cocoa Beach Regional Chamber. Obviously, there’s a saying you’ve seen one chamber, you’ve seen one chamber, right? But what, what kind of approaches are you guys taking as a chamber to see that kind of growth you had mentioned that you’ve reimagined what a chamber is. You’ve had this charge to make your chamber, chamber the future, take that shape, it into what it means and the change you guys have seen since you’ve been there.

Jimmy Lane 9:17
Yeah, so I mentioned this is my second chamber, and the Chamber I came from was in Forsyth County, Georgia. They did some really great stuff. It’s about a $3 million chamber today, but when we all started, you know, 12 to 15 years ago, it was about 600,000 and and we didn’t, we didn’t grow and change it by adding more members and doing more networking events. Those things have their place. So we had a pretty cool model that we we decided to generate revenue that was mission driven. And for those who remember the horizons initiative that came out a few years ago, I think part two or 2.0 is coming out here pretty soon. We really bought into that. We really said, okay, the whole i. The membership is changing, and we need to, we need to embrace that. And you know, just as a side note, I was a math education major in college, went to military school, thought I was gonna be a math teacher, and you know, that didn’t. I found the chamber world, and thankfully, did that. But, but you know, data is a big deal to me, and so we pull a lot of data. And what I found when I first got here doing the benchmarking that ACCE and others have for you to take a look at, is that this organization was very, very heavily weighted on the membership due side of things, 90 plus percent in some years. And post covid, you know, had it had, prior to covid, it had probably 8085, maybe 90% retention rate at times. But post covid was 3040, 50, 60% and I remember, for us, thinking about during what covid, covid real made me realize that if your idea of success is just butts and seats, as we say from time to time, and you can’t do that anymore, where does that leave you? And so we said, Okay, first off, what can we do? What can we take that, that we do well, and kind of enhance and in that first year, we decided to revamp our programming events. We think that really, chambers have four areas that they can focus in. You know, there is the traditional networking. Of course, the stuff that they do every day, right is, there’s the traditional networking. There’s teaching and training, education classes, seminars, where you the leader in that area. There’s also that community development, community engagement events that you can do. They’re the pat you on the backfield, good events that everyone does to some degree. And then the fourth one that I’m the most excited about are, what are those strategic initiatives, those projects that you, if you’re not the major driver behind you, have a huge hand in we used to say, you know, this organization used to beg to have a seat at the table. Well, now we’re creating the table that people are asking to have a seat at, that are driving true legacy, transformational change in our community. And then all of a sudden we started doing that. And it’s taken a while for people to sort of reframe what they believe the chamber is and and what it can be. But now those folks are writing us checks, seed money, checks, for lack of a better term, at times, to go to fund these initiatives. And they’re not looking for their logo on a, on a, on a program or on the screen at an event. Or am I going to get chicken or steak tonight at the event. You know, it is for a very different reason, and I’ll tell you that is the start of it is reframing, sort of going from that transactional to transformational growth and focusing on mission driven investment.

Brandon Burton 12:56
Yeah, and I think a lot of chambers have gotten that memo now that you need to be more of a they should. Yeah, I think, I think for some there’s still some of that hesitation of moving away from what their traditional, you know, staple events have been, their their bread and butter, you know, what’s driving the revenue currently, and maybe some hesitation taking that bold step into something new, or a new revenue stream that hopefully will kind of turn the table on what that model looks like for their organization. So for a chamber that’s having these maybe hesitations or just having a hard time making that that bold move, what did you guys see that was helpful for you to step into that and really own that space?

Jimmy Lane 13:46
Well, I think it starts with understanding your why. So there’s a great book called Start with Why. Simon Sinek, he that really is at the base of everything that we do. He’s done a couple TED talks, if you go back and find one from like 2010 some of the references, you know, they don’t apply to line today, but you’ll get it if you’re you know, you know, during that time. But we had to start with our why, and we went through a multi stage process with the staff and with our board. And it was very interesting to me when I asked the those leaders who have been around for a long time, who are investing the most of their time and their resources into us, why we exist. They really couldn’t, you know, verbalize that. And the things they said was, well, well, to do networking events and to, you know, advocate at the, you know, state level, or whatever it may be. And I said, Well, why does that actually matter? And they kept, at times, got frustrated like, well, obvious for obvious reasons. Well, when we boil it down to the very foundational reason of why people invest in the work that we do, is they have hope that they’re this is a tool for them, that by investing in it, it’s going to. Give them greater opportunity to achieve the happiness that they so desire. And when you kind of get down to that, that that is the work we’re doing, and that what we do, the day to day, stuff changes over time. It makes your path Much, much clearer. And so some of the things that we looked at, you know, in our community, that provides more hope and can create more happiness for folks is like military you know, we have a huge military presence here. I think at one time we have about 650,000 people in this in this county, you know, 150 or so are have some military affiliation, retired, and we want them to stay in this community and do great things. Well, one of the problems we saw, and nobody had a solution for it, was when they’re in those last year, last few months of being active duty, whether they’re in the Air Force or Coast Guard or Marine Corps, whatever it may be, how are we transitioning them to civilian life. I mean, I grew up in a military family. I’ve seen it, you know, good and talented people. 2025, years in a leadership position in the army, and then they get out and they’re just not sure what to do. And sometimes their skills don’t translate. Their leadership skills do, but maybe their job that they did do not. And we’ve got a great guy on our on our board of directors, who’ll be the chairman of our board in a couple years. He he started out as our military affairs council chair. He lived that, and he is a growing and thriving and a huge success in our community, as a business owner in the cyber security world. But for a couple years, he floundered and didn’t really know what to do, and kind of bounced around and said, We need a real transition program for folks. And, well, interestingly, you know, when I first started, people used to say, well, the spacexes of the world aren’t going to give you any money. They don’t care about what we’re doing. Well, yeah, you’re right, because they don’t care about networking. And if you’re doing a networking loan, you’re telling them join the chamber and let everybody know you exist. Well, they don’t really care about that, but you know what they do care about is they care about this transition event that we’re doing in November, and they have raised their hand and beat on the door and said, We want to be a part of it, and by the way, we’re going to write a check, because this is so important for our community and what we do, because we all know that workforce is a big deal, and finding the right people, and the spacexes and ULAs and others of the world are saying, Hey, this is a big deal for us. And so I say all that. Say that’s how we’ve been making our shift. Those are the areas we said, Where can we be? Where can we get narrowly focused because for the next three to five years, and a couple of areas, and where can we just go make a huge impact, and regardless is if, whether or not you’ve ever stepped foot in our front door, you know we exist, you know, a chamber. What? What is a chamber? It doesn’t matter if we are doing things that positively, positively affect you and your quality of life, we’re doing the right things.

Brandon Burton 17:57
Yeah, that was that leads in perfectly to what my next thought or question was, is, how do you go after these, these bigger donors? And you talked about it being these events, these programs, being mission driven, but you’re not just going up to them necessarily, and saying, Hey, this is our mission. This is what we’re doing. Write us a check. But it sounds like you’ve got the programming around it that’s going to align with what they feel to be important, with what they see value in in the community, to help build community, and then just aligning those efforts together. Am I? Am I getting that right? Or is there Yeah? Nuances,

Jimmy Lane 18:33
yeah. Let me. Let me give you another just sort of small example. So years ago, SpaceX was having some issues, or one of the, you know, getting rockets in and out of certain this certain road. And it was before my time. So I’m gonna tell the story wrong, but you’ll, you’ll understand the gist. And there was a light in the way, and they needed somebody, they needed the D, o, t to move that light. And it was this big, huge ordeal. And I remember the chamber I came from, was typically the organization that stepped in and went and, you know, beat the drum to get that done and relieve that pressure off of a SpaceX, or whoever it may be that needed that, that to drive their business. It was, it was hurting their business. Well, those are the things that they care about. You’re there when they need you. You are. You are eliminating a speed bump or hurdle in the road for them to go do their work. And if you’re willing and able to go do that, and you can fill a need for them, they will invest in what you do. And again, going back, you know, Kennedy Space Center is a great partner of ours. We’ve got some really great people who work there, and they are very caring for our organization, and we’ve got a great partnership. But recently, they have said to us, the major thing, the thing we care about the most, is that the the the space industry, stays here number one, because that means that we are. Where we are secure and where we need to be, and we have done a bad job of finding the right people as we’re growing and thriving to hire enough people, and everybody has us, not just on them. And how do we how do we do that? And so something like this transition event from active duty military to to full time civilian is something they care about deeply and have invested heavily in themselves, because they’re like, you’re filling a need. We don’t have the headache of putting it on. We just have to be there and be a part of it. Yeah.

Brandon Burton 20:29
So I think, I think that’s a great example, and being able to quite literally remove those speed bumps that are in the way of these businesses being right, exactly, getting their targets. I’m trying to put myself in the shoes of a chamber listening right now, and they think, yeah, you know, we understand what you’re saying, Jimmy. We need to change our programming. We need to be, you know, somebody who’s there listening to the needs of our members and really help eliminate those problems. But I think it may be helpful to hear maybe just a few examples of the different types of programming you guys do, understanding every Chamber’s different, but it might get some of those creative juices flowing for people listening to say, You know what, maybe we should explore this, because that could align with our mission and our purpose. So if you don’t mind just going through some of that, some of those programming that you guys have been Yeah, absolutely.

Jimmy Lane 21:19
And I’ll step back just a little bit about how we determine what they were to again, my second chamber, I do a lot of R and D, rip off and duplicate, as we say, and I would encourage all of you to do so, and anything we talk about today, if you’re interested, I’m happy to share that with you. But the reality is, you don’t know what you need to do until you ask a lot of times again. I came from a different community. I had over 200 community conversations and said, Who is the chamber to you now? What should the chamber be? And if we were to stand in the gap and get focused on a couple of areas for a period of time, three to five years, and do them really, really well, what what would those things be? And so I think that helps you try to understand where you’re going and what you’re doing. You should ask, you should survey, you should have those conversations. But some of the things that we found for us that were a big deal is one of the things that’s been the most successful this year is our Brevard women Connect. Brevard County is the county that we’re in. There are some other women’s empowerment series in our community, and they do a great job. But we saw a need of creating something for that, and it’s sort of, we sort of dabbled in it. Last year, we did a Galantine stay event. We did a women’s empowerment series, women in engineering. Engineering is obviously a big deal here in the in the space program, or with the space program here, and we did a think pink, it’s a women’s and wellness sort of panel discussion that we had and and so the goal for that is to, how do we, how do we focus on one market in our community, do a quarterly event that gathers for us, which was pretty incredible, 100 or more women business leaders in our community, and gives them a place of belonging and gathering. ACC talks about that in the horizons initiative belonging and gathering another place for them to feel tied to the organization. So that was a big win for us, and has been a big win. And this is in We’re in our second year of it, and I can only see it growing. Tourism is a big deal for us as well. We realize that the traditional way of marketing to our folks, so we have a tourism development commission visit Space Coast that is here that that gets the tourism bed tax dollars and their their job is to attract people here. Well, our job as an organization through visit Cocoa Beach is, how do we get them to spend money while they’re here? And, oh, by the way, we have 650,000 residents here. What are we doing to encourage them to spend money in their own community? We’re all creatures of habit. And no matter how long you live somewhere, you go to the same places over and over, and oftentimes you you miss out on some of the great places. So we built an app. A few years ago, we worked with a company who helped us build an app. We spent, probably, at the time, the largest investment in anything we had ever done, to the tune of, you know, between 20 and $30,000 when we bought kiosk and other things and threw them in our community. And that has been a huge, huge win for us, because those who are in the tourism industry said, Hey, we want to be a part of this. We want to, we want to, you know, have our name and logo associated with it. We want to be a part of the top 10, top 10 things to do with your kids on a rainy day. We have those type lists that are associated with it. And that was able to help us do that. Um, we mentioned the transition event with the Military Affairs Council. That is a big deal for us. The thing that I’m most excited about right now is our Small Business Service Center. Our small business service center is something that is coming online now. We kind of had dabbled in it the last couple years. Exciting time for us. We’ve recently sold the building that we. Currently in, we’re doing a little at least back temporary, at least back while we find new space, because the space we were in didn’t have the capacity for us to build that. You know that entrepreneur hub where where small businesses could come in and get the necessary information, the teaching and training, the space to have meetings for them, to build and grow their business. One of the pillars is our is a, is a curriculum and education piece that we’re doing, we actually, you know, it’s going to go, it’s going to, you know, there’s going to be HR classes and social media marketing classes. There’s going to be tax classes. You know, it’s amazing to me, even you know, people who are in my seat, who I talk to all the time. There are some compliance things you have to do during the course of the year, and it’s not too fun when the state sends you a letter that says, Yeah, we’re dissolving your organization. Pay your $35 fee. Well, there’s all those things. I mean, we’re going to have a set, you know, a session where, you know, different labor attorneys will be here, and they’ll just do 15 minute sessions with these folks. And so the Small Business Service Center is a huge, huge deal for us. And will it generate revenue for us? Absolutely, because there’s organizations who want to be a part of it, and want to be, you know, have their name and listed with that. But what it’s going to do is help us drive entrepreneurship and help that small business, that one man, handy man, working out of his garage, grow into a much larger business and employ more people. And so we’re just excited about a ton of different things. Those are just a couple that we’re sort of scratching the surface on right now that have been very, very important for us.

Brandon Burton 26:40
Yeah. So it sounds like with a lot of these programming you have some sort of an event that goes along with it, that maybe you bring in speakers and training and things like that. As far as drawing the sponsors for these different areas of programming, are you, you know, looking through your membership, looking through businesses in the community, and thinking these people would be a great community partner in this, or right? Do you put it out to the chamber, and then those who are interested reach back out to you? How do you how do you approach that,

Jimmy Lane 27:10
all of those things, I think you know, again, the idea of membership is changing, and we’re not getting away from the membership model. So don’t hear me wrong on this, but there are certain organizations in our community and just outside of our community who are willing to invest in programming and certain things that we do. There’s a there’s a there’s an organization not too far from here, there, there, there, uh, their rule internally is we don’t join any chambers, but if they’re doing something that has to do with has to do with space, with the space industry, which we have a state of space event and some other stuff, we have Space Council that I didn’t mention, but I’m also very excited about, they want to invest heavily in it, and writing a check for $10,000 isn’t a big deal for them. And so to answer your question, we have a dedicated sales team. We have two sales folks who go out and they pursue Chamber members, obviously, to to invest in these events. And of course, we have, we have our means. Who would care about this? Who do we want to align ourselves with these folks tell a story when they’re aligned with the with the work that we’re doing. Who do we want? Who do we want to offer the opportunity to be a part of and to to stake their flag in the ground that their name is associated with this thing. But we have moved beyond just having Chamber members. We actually have different investment levels for sponsorships for chamber member versus a non chamber member to provide some additional value. It might be 10% it might be 50% more depending on the event, but we do offer them that. So, yeah, so we don’t limit it too much, but we don’t really take the the shotgun approach. Just, Hey, anybody who wants to do it, we’ll take me. If they call us, we’ll we’ll obviously take it. But we’re typically very strategic in calling on certain organizations for a certain reason and offering them the opportunity to align themselves with the work that we’re doing. So

Brandon Burton 29:00
I hope everybody just heard you say all that, I’ve seen too many chambers that will let a $400 membership get in the way of that $10,000 Do you know what you just said?

Jimmy Lane 29:14
Right, right. I will gladly not take your $300 membership to take your $10,000 check, and by the way, and this is for all of you listening, oftentimes, they’re the least headache you ever have because they care about that thing. They get what they need out of it, and they move on until the next time you do something with that. We all know the $250 member that spends hundreds of hours knocking on your door. Some money costs too much. Never forget that. It’s

Brandon Burton 29:43
the paradox. You know that the chambers, yeah, those who are often the least, you know, the lowest level investors, are the ones that have the most need from your chamber, so

Jimmy Lane 29:52
and they’re and they’re great people. And we have a rule here. We have a rule here we treat all of our our chamber investors for. Fair but not equal. Yeah, yep,

Brandon Burton 30:02
yep. That’s That’s good advice. Well, Jimmy, as we start to wrap things up here, you’ve given great tips, great insight, great just ideas of how you guys are approaching this topic. But for a chamber out there who’s really looking to elevate to the next level, what kind of tip or action item might you share with them to help get them on that path?

Jimmy Lane 30:24
I think that you need to find some mentors in your industry. I have plenty of people that I turn to on a consistent basis, and I’m not talking about and this is regardless of size. You need to find those, those chambers, those associations, that really there’s other businesses that are aspirational in nature, again, regardless of size, that you can take the best from. And then you need to turn around and ask yourself, Why do we exist, not what we do, not how we do it, but why do we exist? You need to take yourself through that exercise, and once we determine that we went through really extensive work planning, and everyone on our staff has a work plan, and everyone has a plan that overlaps, like a Venn diagram, they all overlap with one another so that we can go realize the mission and vision of the organization. And if you can find those mentors to help you through the process, help you think through it and think differently, to understand and find your why, and then to plan the work accordingly. I think that gets you way, way, way down the field, and don’t do it just by yourself in your before walls you call your chamber building, bring key stakeholders, regardless if they’re a member of your chamber or not, bring key stakeholders into those conversations you it will be fascinating for you to under to to hear what people believe you are, what you should be in the story, and even more importantly, the emotion that is elicited when they think of your organization. So those would be my tips if I was, if I was coming to you and and consulting with you for that. Those are the those are the sort of the first couple steps we would take you through, and then you make adjustments along the way.

Brandon Burton 32:07
I love that great advice, so I like asking everyone I have on the show, and especially, I’d like you know from your bio you were given the charge to reimagine your organization as a chamber of the future. So how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Jimmy Lane 32:26
Yeah, I think chambers. I know this chamber, when it was originally formed, they worked on things like roads and bridges and how that impacted, you know, their community and the economic development opportunities that it afforded them. And along the way, they lose their they lost their sight so on what they were doing, and they became a networking group. There’s plenty of that out there, and we do that a good, you know, really good. But that can’t be your North Star. And as we go into reimagining and building the chamber of the future. I think if you are, if you are planning your flag on being the best networking group, and we’re going to bring businesses in to tell their story, and, you know, network and, you know, sell their product and service, I think you’re missing the boat. There’s a place for that, and you should still do that, but you have to determine and chambers that will be the ones who will last, and the ones that will be the most impact on a community. Their communities are are begging for them to come and lead strategic projects, strategic initiatives in their community that nobody else can, that other people are scared of, that they’re just not sure where to go. You’ve got good and talented people, regardless of your size, who are affiliated with your organization. Lean on them, go and do those things. And again, if you’re focusing on mission, driven investment, all that stuff works out over time. We had a guy recently, I won’t share his name, but he rose to check for $25,000 to go fund an initiative we were doing. And he doesn’t even live in this state, wow. But he cares deeply about what we’re doing. He lived here for a long time, but he doesn’t live here. Doesn’t interact as much, but, but, but, but did that. And so I see that’s where chambers are going. You have to get out of these, these, these boundaries. You know, you have to be an organization that attracts we joke Tallahassee is five and a half, six hours away from us, the capital of our state. Are we doing something that may attract a small business person there to invest in something we’re doing? And I think that’s where I see the organization going, where, where you become truly regional and the whole idea of, well, I’m in my county, I’m in my city, this is where it ends. Goes away,

Brandon Burton 34:45
right? Yeah, I love that. And what really stood out to me is you had mentioned, and this is my words, kind of summarizing it, but recognizing that change that other people, other organizations, are scared of. Yeah. And maybe nobody else can, can take on these things, but a chamber can, and recognizing that and leaning into it is so important, that’s

Jimmy Lane 35:09
true. And I, and I’ve told our staff and the leadership of our board, I want us to get to a place where somebody has an idea, they see a need in the community, and they go, we’re not sure how to do it. It’s a little scary, but let’s call the chamber, because if anybody can do it, they can do it. Yeah, I love that. Well,

Brandon Burton 35:26
Jimmy, before I let you go, I wanted to give you a chance to share any contact information for people who want to reach out and connect with you and and learn more about how you guys are doing things there at the cocoa regional beach. What would be the best way for someone to reach out and connect?

Jimmy Lane 35:40
Yeah, I would, I would welcome that you can, you can find all of our contact information on CocoaBeachChamber.com. You can also download visit Cocoa Beach on the for your Apple iPhone or your Android. I would highly suggest you take a look at that as well. And then you can reach me via email. jlane@cocoabeachchamber.com, and anything you heard today that you want resources for or even to have a short conversation, happy to do it. We do these, these one on one sessions through the US Chamber, through their Institute program, and that’s one of the most enjoyable things for me, and I’ll tell you, oftentimes we’re going through through neat stuff, and I’m talking to myself during it as well. So they they work for people, and I would encourage you to reach out. That’s great.

Brandon Burton 36:32
We’ll get all of that contact information or show notes for this episode, so we’ll make it easy for people to find you and connect with you, but I really appreciate you spending time with us today here on the podcast, sharing your experience, your insights, great tips and vision of the future of chambers. I think there’s been a ton of value for those who listen and participate in this episode. So thank you for spending time with us today, Jimmy.

Jimmy Lane 36:58
I appreciate it. Hopefully you said something that made an impact.

Brandon Burton 37:00
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Hybrid Sponsorship Program with Matt Hunter

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Hello, chamber champions and welcome to chamber chat podcast. I’m your host, Brandon Burton, and it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

Our title sponsor is Holman Brothers Membership Sales Solutions. Let’s hear from Diane Rogers, President and CEO of the Rancho Cordova Area Chamber to learn how the Holman Brothers have provided value for her.

Diann Rogers 0:40
As a medium sized chamber, we recognize that it’s absolutely critical to have a well qualified and well trained membership development person. Holman Brothers trained that person, recruited that person then they even trained me on how to manage that person. We’re grateful for the support we got.

Brandon Burton 0:54
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Our guest for this episode is Matt Hunter Matt joined the Pocatello-Chubbuck Chamber of Commerce in Idaho in June of 2005 as the president and CEO Matt has a business administration degree from Washington State University and an AAS degree from West Valley College and Saratoga, California, in food service and Restaurant Management. In his role at the Chamber, Matt is responsible for all operations with special emphasis on government advocacy work, and the financial health of the chamber. Matt serves on many boards throughout the region and state. These include the Idaho State University College of Technology Advisory Board, as well as multiple advisory boards within the College of Technology. He also serves on the eastern Idaho Development Corporation board, the southeast Idaho Council of Governments board, the Idaho chamber Alliance executive committee, and on the Idaho nonprofit center board. Matt and his wife Shawn had been married for 37 years have six children and three grandchildren. They love the Pocatello community and made the jump from the hotel industry to the chamber industry so they could stay in the Pocatello area long term. Matt and his family loved the outdoors, including fishing and camping and Matt really enjoys getting out and meeting Chamber members as well as being involved in many community activities. Matt, we’re excited to have you with us today on chamber chat podcast. I’d love for you to take a moment to say hello to all the chamber champions who are out there listening and share something interesting about yourself so we can get to know you a little better.

Matt Hunter 2:37
Well, thank you very much for having me. I really appreciate being on the show, Brandon. Yeah, I have worked at the Chamber now for about coming up on 18 years. I enjoy the work that I do. And it’s it’s great being part of the community. So when I was a young man, I grew up in the Bay area of California. I marched in Drum and Bugle Corps which some of you might be familiar with. Some of you might not be national champion car from the Santa Clara area and won a couple national championships with that I’ve traveled pretty much every state in this country, mostly on a bus and stopping and playing music. It was a blast. And it’s something interesting about my early years in life

Brandon Burton 3:22
yeah, no that is great. And for those listening they can’t see this but my background. I entered mentioned Santa Clara I got my my Niners helmet in the background, big Niners fan and grew up in Sacramento myself. So we’ve got that in common. So well hopefully, hopefully,

Matt Hunter 3:41
you see all nighter stuff on my wall behind me. There’s quite a few nice

Brandon Burton 3:45
things well, it’s good to have a fellow Niner fan on here. So tell us a little bit about the Pocatello Chubbuck chamber just to give us an idea size, scope and scope of work, budget staff, that sort of

Matt Hunter 4:02
thing. Yeah, happy to so the Pocatello Chubbuck community is located in the southeast corner of Idaho. So we’re about two and a half hours north of Salt Lake City. We’re about three hours east of Boise, Idaho, Yellowstone parks nearby it’s it’s a beautiful high mountain area. Love it here. The communities of Pocatello Chubbuck are pretty much combined. Literally Walmart’s in both of them which is kind of fun cutting, you know they’re right on the line, right kind of fun. But about 75,000 people are chamber serves about 750 members $650,000 A year budget. And I have five and a half staff members including myself that operate in the downtown Pocatello area is our office so that is kind of a quick shot of our chamber.

Brandon Burton 4:57
Yeah, that sounds great that that def really helps set the table give some perspective before we get into our conversation today, which will be focusing our discussion around your hybrid sponsorship program and I know oftentimes chambers hear sponsorship program their ears perk up, they want to know more about you know what other chambers are doing to bring in the money right. So well speaking of money, we’ll we’ll take a quick break and we’ll come back and dive dive deeper into this topic.

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All right, Matt, we are back. So as I mentioned before the break, we’re we’re gonna focus on your hybrid sponsorship program. So first of all, what does that mean? What is your hybrid sponsorship

Matt Hunter 8:26
program, a lot of chambers run what they call sort of a tiered dues that includes events and stuff like that we don’t we run a standard dues based on employee count. And so our dues run from about $325 for a very small business to about 5000 for our very large companies that we have here in the area. None of that includes sponsorships. So we sell a separate sponsorship package, and we call it the one ask sponsorship program. So I’ll sit down with a company one time a year, we have a packet that includes all of our events, prices for all of them. And there are four tier levels, bronze level sponsorship, silver, gold, and then a platinum. Each of those events can be picked and chosen as they wish. A good example is if you’re a silver sponsor, you can pick any three of the nine events that we have in our in our sponsorship bundle. You can be a silver sponsor for that, including whatever a silver sponsor yet might be a Table event might be a hole at a golf club and a golf tournament. But you get that variety of things and you can pick any of those that you want to be a silver sponsor for and then there’s some marketing that goes into it. You’re on our website, you’re on a pull up in our lobby or on a pull up that said all of our event, you’re on a weekly newsletter that goes out and so they’re there Quite inclusive of any type of membership, the top level, the platinum sponsorships are $12,000. They include being a premier sponsor for one of our events, and then being gold sponsors for other one. And obviously they get more events they can be part of as a platinum sponsor, you can be part of five different events. And it includes other things like our all member meetings, you get tickets included to that you can do a business after hours as part of your sponsorship package. So it works really well. We bring in about $110,000 a year of our $650,000 budget. So it’s a big chunk of our revenue stream. And it’s been around since 2015, and continues to grow each year. So it’s a good program. And if you got some specific questions about it, I’d be happy to answer him, sir.

Brandon Burton 10:55
Yeah, so my first thought is, pricing Pricing is always a something of, I don’t know, people are scared sometimes to talk about price to set price to do do, you know, discounts as you do bigger packages. So as you look at the different packages with the one ASP program, is there discounts if you do multiple things? Or do you just say, here’s the prices, we’re just presenting it all at once, and you can decide what you want? Or how do you go about the pricing structure,

Matt Hunter 11:26
there’s obviously more value built in as you as you go to the larger packages, but the top package, as I said, as a $12,000 package Pocatello is not a large maybe I know people that pay it $25,000 sponsorship to be part of an event at the Boise chamber and I love those folks. And and I learned a lot from them about sponsorships. But you know, really a top sponsorship for one of our events, if you just bought that sponsorship alone is about 3000. Well, when you buy this package, you get about five of them. And so there for 12,000, you’re getting 15,000 value, you get all the marketing that I mentioned that that comes along with it, you get the the other couple of added events, like the old member meetings and stuff like that, that you get free access to. Below that you go to the gold sponsorship was about $8,000, you generally get about 10 to $11,000 in value when you buy into that one. So it’s in it’s just less events, and less hierarchy. If those events, you know, our events are structured, you’re you’re a gold sponsor, you get front seedings. So we’re sponsored behind bronze sponsor, you know, and and then the general public grab seats where they can get them. And so all of the levels do that. So you got 8000 at the Gold level, you got 5000 at the silver, and it’s got about $6,500 in value, and you get about 3000, the bronze, and it’s three to $4,000 in value. So the the added additional value obviously goes up as the level of sponsorship. And we’ll even do more. So the one ask gets you this many events, but I’ll sit down with a member if they really liked the one ask because I sit down with them and bug them once. Right not I’m going to call you every other week on they sometimes hear everything too, right? Everything’s there. And it’s it’s all laid out. And some of them will say well, we want all of this stuff that’s included in the package. Plus, we want this, this and this. So they’re still for it might be $15,000 because they bought extra stuff. And once again, I bug them one time. And they’re done dealing with their sponsorships for the year. So really well for us.

Brandon Burton 13:48
So let’s talk about how you go about bugging them. One time a year. So 750 Members, I don’t imagine you’re sitting down with all 750 to go through the ass. So how do you identify the ones you are sitting down with? The ones that sponsored the previous year? Did they get first right of refusal? How do you how do you approach it?

Matt Hunter 14:09
Yeah, exactly that. So initially, at most of our events, not all of our events, there’s the annual sponsor. Messaging is there, because you’re recognized that all of our events, at least with the banner that’s there, I always mentioned it, if you’re interested in talking about this, I’d love to meet with you. I’d love to talk with you about it. And so that’s sort of the first one at our big annual awards banquet. We really recognize them all give them a plaque for being part of it, you know, for the year and that’s where I make a little more sales pitch of this is what this program is love to talk to you about it. We also just do some general emailing about it. But there is first right of refusal. So if you’re the sponsor, premier sponsor of our governors banquet, you own it until you decide you don’t want to be the premier sponsor of that event. Yeah, And so yeah, and all of our events are like that. There’s only about nine events on there. There’s only one premier sponsorship for each one of them. And so there is a little bit of competition for folks that want to get their hands on one of those. So.

Brandon Burton 15:18
So and that brings up another good point. So the competition for those, especially those premier sponsors, how do you address pricing from year to year? I mean, especially right now, or inflationary times where pricing tends to increase in a lot of areas? Do you feel stuck at all in pricing? Are you able to increase pricing, we have felt stuck

Matt Hunter 15:39
at pricing. And and I think we would have been justified doing a price increase this year, we did not. We had a discussion, we actually had a very good year last year. And we probably shouldn’t make that decision based on that. Because all of our events, costs have gone up. But in the meetings this year, I pretty much told everybody these are going up across the board next year, every every level is going to go up all of our events are going to go up the only thing we really increased individual pricing on this year was our golf tournament. Because it’s I mean, it’s in July, I think I’ve got 10 spots for teams left in it. I mean, it’s already almost full. And so we felt there was just such demand for that, that we increase the price. And that that will go into more price increases for all of our events, the premier sponsorships are probably going to go 3500 instead of 3000. So I see everything already kind of working on what this is going to look like. Yeah.

Brandon Burton 16:43
As you mentioned, sometimes there’s competition on these premium sponsors. Do you open it up at all for bidding on on some of these prime spots are just first come first serve?

Matt Hunter 16:57
Yeah, I have not done that. It really is first come first serve. And there are not all nine of those events are owned every year, though. So there is still some availability on you know, some of the baby. I’m not gonna say all my events are highly valuable. But some members, the membership sponsors don’t value as much as other maybe based on attendance or other things. So there always is, uh,

Brandon Burton 17:25
maybe they’re just better aligned with other programs.

Matt Hunter 17:29
They like, you know, I mean, our Gate City brew fest, phenomenal event. Not every business wants to be aligned with a brew fest. But luckily, we have some that do. And so we have premier sponsors for that and and all of our other events. So it works pretty well. But the the competition side, it gets you’re juggling renewals, so a lot of them renewal in January, and you’re like, I need to get this renewal renewal done. Because if you’re not going to take this premier sponsorship, I already got somebody asking me about right. So I’m not trying to pressure him, I’m just saying I need to get it done. You don’t want it. That’s fine. I have people jump around between platinum to gold, the silver up and down each year, some of the companies move up and down. But and then that makes things available for other folks. But the gold and silver and bronze, I can sell 50 of them for any event. So those are very much.

Brandon Burton 18:21
Okay. So that was one of the other questions on my mind is how do you juggle that? So if, if you haven’t heard from one of those premium platinum sponsors, and you know, you’ve got two other people vying for that position, at what point do you just say, Okay, we got to move on at risk of hurting feelings.

Matt Hunter 18:40
And I actually did that with one of them this year. And they were, they were a premier sponsor, or platinum level sponsor and a premiere of one of the events. And I did have somebody else interested in that. And it took a little while for them to make their decision, but they downgraded from Platinum, and gave up that event and somebody else picked it up. So it really is just like, I’ve got to get all these books, I need your help, you need to make a decision on this and staying in touch with them. These products. I mean, there’s 17 of them in my community that are that are across the sponsorship levels. I think the first year we did about eight, so but I stayed very closely in touch with those 17. And if they’ve got questions or problems, they know what I’m going through with the other ones. And generally they know who the other folks are, that would like those events. So they make their decision. And sometimes they keep it because they don’t want that competitor.

Brandon Burton 19:38
Right. And I imagine a lot of their businesses that are doing these big sponsorships, they’re they’re on board with the mission and vision of the chamber and they’re they’re invested heavily you’re not dealing with, you know, a $300 investment level because those ones are going to be you know, not as committed to the long term right? So is your January just packed with trying to meet with all these businesses?

Matt Hunter 20:06
So I actually start this process in November, okay. Because, you know, by January, we’re starting to do events. So but I mean, I literally right now I have two that technically renewed in in January that are not finalized. And it’s the big events they’ve got, those are nailed down. But they’re trying to decide whether they want to be a sponsor of the law enforcement barbecue, or the CEO breakfast series, and they haven’t made that decision. And that’s a little more fluid. I don’t have to know that right. Now, we can do that at the end of January, still, we can manage that last little part. So I’ve got two of them that I’m still working with that are still in the final decision process.

Brandon Burton 20:50
Yeah. So is there ever a point where you think, you know, I need to reach out to these five or 10 businesses and encourage them to get more involved with with every

Matt Hunter 21:01
day. That really is how this program started, it was a number of businesses that were interested in being more engaged. And I came up with this program, I think I said in 2015. And since then, it’s like, you know, somebody comes into the, the community, they start doing a lot of stuff. And I’ll sit down with him and say, you know, you’re doing three events with the chamber, you can throw that into a sponsorship package, and get all this marketing that comes along with it. And that seems to work very well. I’ve done that multiple times over the years. That’s where how we got to the first eight, where we have 17 today, and some have gone out, we’ve had some that have done a year. And and backed away from it. We have some that had been in it since the beginning. And I’ve been there the whole time. So that different folks value it and it’s they spend their marketing dollars on other things. I had one that wanted to upgrade at this year. And then well, we’re doing this stuff over in the Boise market, we’re gonna stay at the level we’re at, you know, and that’s fine with me, I just, I want to serve their needs as well as I can.

Brandon Burton 22:09
Right. So maybe for clarity sake. So you have the one ask that you get these packages for but then as you have these events throughout the year, are you still offering sponsorship levels throughout the year for those who are not participating in the one ask program?

Matt Hunter 22:26
Yes, we are. The only thing you can’t buy without being in the one is programming. To be a premier sponsor an event, you have to be in the one ask program. But you can buy a gold table at February fantasy which is coming up next Friday. You can be a silver, you can be a bronze. There’s a lot of other sponsorships available for all of our events. And you can buy any of those as one offs. And so I think a gold sponsorship for most of our events is about 1500 bucks. A Silver’s 1000 and a bronze is $600. So yeah, most of our stuff is in about that range. There’s a couple of larger ones. But yeah,

Brandon Burton 23:07
I like that that gives you a pool of people or businesses in the future the see if they’re sponsoring three or four different events. Yeah. Hey, let’s I think our deeper conversation.

Matt Hunter 23:17
Yeah, our February fantasy, you know, there’s probably six or seven sponsors that are involved in the one ask that are part of this big dinner we’re doing next Friday night. And, but there’s 20 sponsors. So a lot of folks have come on as added sponsors for the event without being in one ask program. Okay,

Brandon Burton 23:37
gotcha. So has there been any lessons that you’ve learned through gone through this one ask program that you’re like, oh, this worked really well. Or if I wouldn’t do that aspect of it again, or you’ve had to tweak along the way,

Matt Hunter 23:50
the biggest mistake I made at the very beginning. And it’s still there, but we’re starting to work around it. One premier sponsorship for every event. And it was so you get exclusivity. You don’t end up with two competing banks or two competing credit unions or whatever, as top sponsors. But I wish I had said you get exclusivity within your sort of tear of influence. So maybe I could have hospital be a premier sponsor. And our big credit union being a premier sponsor together. And it has limited my ability, obviously to sell premier sponsorships. We had nine major events. I have nine I can sell. And I’m out and I think I could sell more. And I’m actually starting to talk to those premier sponsors about would you be willing to do this with this other partner to open up more sponsorships? That’s probably the biggest lesson. And then I probably should have done more regular price increases on it because it has made it harder to do that small chunk and price increase, you know, we increase our dues every year to 3%. Every year, folks don’t notice you’re not coming after for a 50% increase all the time. It’s the smartest thing if you don’t increase your dues every year, folks, because your dues every year anyway. But I wish I had done more of that also to stayed up with the pricing in the market instead of locking it in. Right?

Brandon Burton 25:25
And are you the exclusive person meeting with all the the one ask potential spy,

Matt Hunter 25:32
right now, I’m actually going to transition to this as a commissioned piece to my membership salesperson, we’re in the process of doing that right now. And the meetings that I do, as we go through because they’re not they don’t all renew in January, I didn’t make that clear. I’ve some that renew in October and some of that renew in July, because you can sign up anytime during the year. The big ones all renew in January. But so when I have some of the smaller ones renewed during the year, maybe four of them that don’t renew in January of the 17. I will take that salesperson along and teach them the process and help them understand how that program works. So yeah, that’s my plan, I need to transition away from it. I spend more time on government affairs than I do actually on selling sponsorship right.

Brandon Burton 26:23
Now, I think you’ve covered a lot of a lot of great stuff here and really painting the picture how you guys are working your one ask program? Is there anything that we’re missing that we haven’t covered that you think is important for listeners to know?

Matt Hunter 26:37
Well, you know, you always have just sort of extra events come. And so you say it’s one Ask, and you really don’t want to bug them about something. But if something pops up during the year, well, we’ve got to once every year we get to bring the legislature to Southeast side. Well, this is 23, we’re bringing the legislature to South I have to raise a lot of money to bring the legislature here, we fund everything. So you do have special events that are not part of the one ask and just working through that. Because then it’s like, well, I’m going back to Farm Bureau and I’m saying, I got this other event and y’all want to be part of it. Generally, they’re all pretty good about it. But you know, if that’s another something that comes up every once

Brandon Burton 27:20
Yeah, I thought of that earlier in our conversation of as you do have new events that come in, do you just kind of earmark it and say we’ll add that into the calendar for next year. Or if you try to get it in as they come from time to time, you really do I mean, I,

Matt Hunter 27:35
you’ll in my budget, there’s three lines of that one event to event three, that are just potential things that may come up that year that you didn’t budget for the year, they’re extras, and at some point, somebody wanted your help with something, you you decide to be part of it. And you need a funding area for it an expense area for it. So you just write it into the budget as you go along. Got it.

Brandon Burton 28:01
So as we start wrapping up, I wanted to ask if there’s any tips or action items that you can suggest for listeners who want to take their chamber up to the next level? What would you suggest for them?

Matt Hunter 28:12
Well, there’s two that I would really suggest. I came to this industry from the hotel industry. I’ve been involved in chambers for all 20 years, I worked in the hotel industry, but never closely. So I almost immediately the second year I was here, I went through the IOM program to the US Chamber of Commerce, phenomenal program. If you haven’t been through it, I would definitely suggest folks go through it. And then after I got done with it, I was like, Well, where am I going to get my learning now, I need to stay up on things need to be involved. And I get a lot from the Idaho chamber Alliance, which I’m part of, and I’m past chair of and we meet and we got 20 chambers in Idaho that meet together and talk about these kinds of things and operations and sponsorships and all kinds of stuff like that. So if you have a State Chamber, be involved with your State Chamber. And then finally I attend ACC every year. It’s been a great conference, I started going to I think I might the year after I finished my IOM I started going to ACC II and it’s every year I come home with something from that conference that we implement that makes our chamber stronger. Not always a financial thing. It might be something else. But always something comes out of that in in programs and benefits and something that I can implement to support this community.

Brandon Burton 29:39
That’s right. And that’s actually where we met was that ACC conference. So it’s correct. Yeah, something good came out of that. So. So, Matt, I like asking everyone I have on the show about how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Matt Hunter 29:57
Well, I think they’re Purpose going forward is just being super involved in their community. And it’s something where we haven’t done a great job in the past. And we’re and we’re reaching out more into not just my membership community, but the whole community and working on things as, as a community partner, involved with the United Way involved with early childhood education, things like that, that we have gotten involved in. At the other real thing that chambers have got to get much better out is figuring out how to engage the younger population, we Scott, we have for years, I wanted to start a young professional program. And we did we just started one about a year and a half ago, and it was actually the Boise Metro Chamber that helped me had one of their people that runs theirs, come over and talk to my board about it and get a group together and really help us get one up and running. And sure we have funding for it. That’s now part and it really is helping engage the younger community with our chamber of commerce. And that’s very important.

Brandon Burton 30:58
Yeah, if you want to stay relevant going forward, you got to start with them while they’re young, right. So I wanted to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for listeners who’d like to reach out and connect and learn more about your one ask program, what would be the best way for them to reach out and connect with you,

Matt Hunter 31:18
you could reach out to me two ways matthew@pocatelloidaho.com. That’s Pocatello and Idaho just spelled out very easy. And then the chamber office numbers 208-233-1525, happy to chat with anybody happy to share the literature I have on our one as program. And always happy to talk about anything else in chamber world. You know, people say that chambers are all the same. But I am a firm believer of the common if you’ve seen one chamber, you’ve seen one chamber, you all are doing great stuff that I know nothing about. And we might be doing some good stuff that we can help you with. So love to chat

Brandon Burton 31:59
with folks. Very good. And I’ll get your contact information in our show notes for this episode. And if it’s alright, maybe we could just link to your one ask program material that you have is there on your website that we can just point him to and those show notes. Maybe maybe not. Or reach out to

Matt Hunter 32:21
the updated version may not be out there say

Brandon Burton 32:25
that’s fine, that’s fine. Just Just reach out to Matt to get the latest and greatest. This has been a great conversation and I know chambers listening are getting value from this and their minds are spinning as to how they can implement something like this to simplify things but also to to make it easier on those those bigger sponsors as well. And I really appreciate you setting aside time and joining us today on chamber chat podcast and sharing this experience and insight with us.

Matt Hunter 32:53
Thank you very much. I’ve enjoyed it.

Brandon Burton 38:24
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Accreditation Process with Dewan Clayborn

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Below is an auto-generated transcription of my conversation with Dewan Clayborn. Because this is auto-generated there are likely some grammatical errors but it is still a useful tool to search text within this podcast episode.

Feel free to join our Chamber Chat Champions Facebook Group to discuss this episode and to share your own experiences and tips with other Chamber Champions.

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Introduction

Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Voiceover Talent 0:14
And now your host he believes the best way to get better at something is to put in the reps is my dad, Brandon Burton.

Brandon Burton 0:21
Hello, chamber champions. Welcome to the chamber chat podcast. I’m your host, Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal on the podcast to help introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

Our title sponsor is Holman Brothers Membership Sales Solutions. Let’s hear from Matt Morrow President and CEO of the Springfield Area Chamber in Missouri to learn how the Holman Brothers provided value to his chamber.

Matt Morrow 0:47
Holman Brothers provide a great training for our sales team in terms of just outstanding sales techniques. But maybe even more importantly than that, they were able to provide us with a system a process that was repeatable and in that we’re able to see very clearly from one month to the next how the how the pipeline is doing, what prospects are in it, what kind of progress we’re making and what we can do to coach people to success.

Brandon Burton 1:09
You can learn more about Holman Brothers Membership Sales Solutions by visiting holmanbros.com.

Guest Introduction

Our guest for this episode is Dewan Clayborn. Dewan is the president of the League City Regional Chamber of Commerce, and he’s been there since July of 2019. Since Dewan’s arrival at the league City Regional Chamber, they’ve seen exponential growth having some of the most success that their chambers ever had in 60 years, bringing in over 600 new members to date more than 500,000 plus views of the chamber website. multitude of ribbon cuttings and so much more. The ones leadership has seen the league City Regional Chamber of Commerce become one of the fastest growing chambers in Texas and become a four star accredited Chamber of Commerce putting them in the top 3% of all chambers of commerce in the United States, all in less than three years. The one was a 40 under 40 recipient for ACCE as well as for Galveston County in 2021. He majored in Business Administration at the University of Central Arkansas, and he started out in management managerial work upon graduation from college. Don is a native of Little Rock, Arkansas, but made the decision to move to Texas due to the state providing so many business opportunities. Dewan grew up with the love of basketball in business and still plays basketball that is to this day for a male division League. Nuan has worked in the chamber world since 2015. After being laid off from Target during its breach scandal, he became the director of special events at the Fort Bend Chamber of Commerce. He fell in love with the mission and culture of chambers. Dewan believes his spiritual gift is serving and cease working at the Chamber is fulfilling his gift and a wonderful way to serve his community. He serves on multiple multitude of nonprofit boards and as a mentor for the Chauncey Glover project as well as a founding member of branch which is brothers renovating adolescents and creating heroes, a membership program dedicated to help him minority children in single parent homes or in juvenile system. He’s also on the board of directors for the African American Marketing Association. Dewan, I’m excited to have you with me today on chamber tap podcast. I feel like it’s been working in progress to get you on the show. And I’m glad we’re making the happen. But I’d love for you to say hello to all the chamber champions and share something else interesting about yourself so you can get to know you better.

Dewan Clayborn 3:45
Sure, of course, though, I thought you’re going to trim down to by longer and longer. But know how long so the world, Dewan Clayborn, President, CEO of the leek city, Regional Chamber of Commerce, and first of all, Brandon, thanks for having me. I’ve been an avid listener to you and I’ve listened to the podcast. I love it. And I’m just excited to finally be here.

Brandon Burton 4:09
I’m excited to have you on here just to I’ll say that an interesting fact is Dewan turned me on to wearing shorts at conferences inside thing beside each other. I think it was at TCC I think. And you know, here I am wearing slacks and this shirt and everything. And I’m like, man, like they did say casual dress. So So then the next conference, I see him I’m wearing shorts and he’s not the only one left me hanging.

Dewan Clayborn 4:41
Next Conference, I wear my shorts again.

Brandon Burton 4:43
There we go there. Yeah. Well tell us a little bit more about the league City Regional Chamber kind of size staff budget type of work do you guys cover just to give us a little bit more perspective?

Dewan Clayborn 4:55
Great. So first off, Lake City is the largest city in Galveston County. There’s over 120,000 as a population, Lake City is a 15, fastest growing city in the US right now. And so we are really smack dab in the middle of, on your way to Galveston to kheema. All of these tourist destinations you have to drive right through league city league city is 48% undeveloped. So I tell people for architects, they can be an artist and draw out the development that they want. And so because of that, it attracts so many different businesses to league city, I was actually blessed to help negotiate bringing Amazon there, which created over 200, over 500 jobs in our community. And because whenever Amazon comes somewhere, of course, other businesses are watching. And so I work very closely with the city’s economic development director, Scott Livingston, and we’re all about recruiting businesses to leak city. But of course, my main goal as the chamber is to business retention and keeping those doors open. And so a lot going on this league city, we’re a Regional Chamber. So we have businesses in Galveston County, Brasilia County in Harris County. And so we’re here to sell ArcSight all businesses no matter what city because we know business is hard. And so we don’t want them to do it alone. And there’s no other way to do it then with one the best chambers in the nation right now.

Brandon Burton 6:25
I love that and that does give a good taste a good flavor of what you guys are involved with at the moment and and like you said, just that rapid growth in your area, which doesn’t happen by accident, you know, I mean, it helps you have undeveloped land that people can kind of dry out and see the vision that they want. But I mean, you guys are doing some things right there and working with the city and economic development to attract those businesses to the area. So great job. Thank you. So our topic that we decided to settle on for our discussion today is going to be around the the accreditation process. And as I shared in the bio, um, you guys are a four star accredited chamber. So I know there’s other chambers out there that are contemplating or maybe going through the process itself. So it’ll be beneficial to hear, you know, from your point of view going through the process and what it was like and to be able to help some of these other chambers be prepared to go through it as well. And we’ll dive into that discussion as soon as we get back from this quick break.

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All right, John, we’re back. So tell us as far as the accreditation process goes, maybe let’s start at the beginning, what made you guys decide that you wanted to go after an accreditation?

Topic-Accreditation

Dewan Clayborn 10:16
Well, before I jump in, I have to give recognition or recognition is due. And so you mentioned that started at Fort Bend chamber. And I did, and that was under one of the best leaders in the chamber industry carry Schmidt. And so being there, we were actually a five star chamber. And so I learned about accreditation there, because that’s all we would talk about. And I was like, why do we keep talking about this? And then I started doing research on like, Okay, this is what separates our chambers from the risks. Because we have a saying, in a chamber world, when you say one chamber, you only think. And so that’s when I learned about it. And so as I was there, the chamber is actually for bench and was getting ready for the reaccreditation. Because it’s a distinction for five years. And so on that for fear, you want to gear it up and start mobilizing your leadership to get ready to apply again. And so I just had one little small portion, because while I was there, I was director of special events. So I was kind of over to governance piece. And it was just so intriguing the amount of details. And it really helped me learn more about the chamber more about my role in the chamber. And whenever I got to leak city, you know, they always said, I mentioned that one time on the board me like, Hey, guys, have we ever thought about being accredited? And they say, Yeah, we thought about that, we looked at what it required. And then we never open that book up again. I was like, well, that’s not the right attitude. You got to look at obstacles as an opportunity to grow and to develop as a chamber. And so at that point, I decided that we will be accredited, and we will start the process. And so I believe around 2020, at my board retreat, we reopen all that paperwork. And I had a facilitator there, Dr. Glenn Friedman, one of my mentors, he’s, and he’s actually teaching chamber basics for TCC. II, say, my class and my staff there yesterday. And so he walked us through the process. And so there’s actually some prerequisites for the accreditation. And so it’s like, if you don’t have these five things done for each section, you’re not even ready to apply. And so we had none of that done. So that was our starting point. And so from there, we started our year long year and a half long journey to get ready to apply for accreditation during the pandemic.

Brandon Burton 12:47
Right. Yeah. As if there wasn’t already enough challenges. Right. Right. So as you got started, what are some of the first things that you guys, you know, tackled, as far as overview talked about overcoming obstacles? What are some of the things he had to address early on in the process?

Dewan Clayborn 13:06
Well, the first thing was just, you know, learning the good governance, right. So when this have we had a financial audit? If you’re in just realize I didn’t answer your question. So our budget is around $778,000. And we have a staff of five to six employees. And so essentially, if your chambers budget is over 500,000, then best practice from us chambers to get an audit a financial audit every other year. If your net income is not your net, if your gross income is under 500,000, then best practice is to get a financial have a financial audit every three years. And so at this point, we were actually under that 500,000 mark. And so we were able to, you know, the first thing we need to do a financial audit. So, first off, if you’re a new executive, if you’re taking on a new chamber position, that’s honestly one of the first things you want to do. So that any skeletons that are in that closet, I’m out and you’re not held accountable. Unfortunately, the situation I was in, we didn’t have the financial resources to do a financial audit when I first got there. And so I was excited that that was one of the first steps because I had been wanting to have one every since I arrived. And so when it was time to start that process, that was the first thing that I say, Well, hey, well, we have all this money. Let’s go ahead and get the financial audit done. That way you can really have a good understanding of where we are. And that’s one of the major steps you have to do before you apply for accreditation.

Brandon Burton 14:44
That’s right. No, and I think that’s good advice too, even if you’re not applying for credit. So if you are a new chamber exec coming into a new role at a new chamber, it would behoove you and protect you to have a financial audit done. Out there intimate that’d be skeletons, but it’ll just give you a good pulse of what’s going on in your chamber, what’s the help financially, and be able to help you kind of chart those waters going forward? Yes, please. What are what are some of these other obstacles or things? Yeah, next steps in the process. So so once

Dewan Clayborn 15:18
you actually go through what the minimum standards of accreditation, and you have all of those checked off, then the next piece is really now diving deep into each section. So there’s eight different sections for accreditation, just to name a few. One of them is Board Governance. One of them is program development. Another one is financials. And so start going through each section and literally work your way down and checkbox. And if you’re able to provide that documentation, do it if not, start reaching out to chamber executives that are already accredited and started looking to I call it our od rip off and duplicate, or allow you to file and get get some of their best practices. And so that’s where I then started, you know, for those documents that didn’t have what those policies and procedures, I started looking at some of my neighboring chambers that were accredited and started adopting some of their policies. Now, of course, you want to get your board involved. And so my Board reviewed it, and we made our we made we put our league city twist on it, but work smarter not harder. You know, people have already paved the way the people have already had these documents, sorry about that have have a little

Brandon Burton 16:41
mascot, right.

Dewan Clayborn 16:44
Right. Well, yeah, so somebody is already has that work done, work smarter, not harder, and reach out to them and try to borrow some of those resources? Yeah,

Brandon Burton 16:55
I’d like that just to be able to lean on your other peers in the industry. And there’s no no sense in reinventing the wheel, you know, reach out to your peers. How do you do this? You know, what kind of structure template are you using? Yeah, I see that as being in the podcast space chambers will reach out about starting a podcast and saying, Well, let’s look at some templates that other chambers are doing for their podcast, and see what would fit you and your community the best. And that’s what it’s all about is kind of finding a template and then customizing it towards yourself and what works for your community. So as you went through the process, how was the buy in from your board? From the Staff? What was the overall climate like?

Dewan Clayborn 17:40
Right? So you know, the first thing is, I really had to, like, you know, sell the board on the importance of accreditation, right? Because their first question is, okay, why? What’s the benefit for this for the chamber? And then not even that for the members? So why am I as a top investing five star member? Why do I care about you being accredited. And so as the executive and a leader of the organization, those are the first talking points you want to have, okay, why accreditation is important, because it shows one the businesses that were good financial stewards with the finances, that they invest in our chamber, right best. And that’s through going through the financial audit. Also, in that financial peace, you have to have financial policies, procedures to make sure you have controls over those funds, that businesses are investing in your chamber, you know, because business are given 1000s and 1000s of dollars a year. And so you want to make sure, as a chamber executive, you’re not just saying that you’re a good steward, but you’ve had CPA companies sign off on that you are able to produce financial policies and procedures, if anyone asks, and once you have your financial audit, it shows that you are good stewards with those funds that you’ve been given. And so that was my first message is to allow on our board members to know that, hey, I know a lot of you all are part of a lot of chambers. But if you’re wanting to see which time you should invest in the most, you should look at investing in an accredited chamber, because we have that stamp of approval from the US Chamber of Commerce.

Brandon Burton 19:16
There you go. I like that pitch. Because a and you guys are kind of in a region where you do have a lot of chambers, you know, immediate neighbors even and a lot of your members are going to be members have maybe three or four different chambers. So when they decide where to put their money, you know, put it where it’s going to have the most influence where it’s going to have the biggest impact, right and building a stronger community. So how about to the general chamber member? I mean, I’m sure you guys made some sort of an announcement once you you got your four star accreditation. How did you make that announcement to members in a way that you know, show ODE what it meant to them, even if they’re maybe an entry level member, right? What does that mean for them?

Dewan Clayborn 20:07
Yeah, so what we did is when we finally found out that we reached this prestige distinction, we hosted a four star accreditation celebration, we actually have someone from the US Chamber of Commerce come out from Washington, one of my good friends, uh, you know, I’m John Gonzales, he came out. And so basically, I invited out all past board members, anybody that was a member, one, one month, one year at the chamber and current members to tell them all, because of you, we’ve reached this distinction. And that’s a way for you to know by you investing in the chamber in a community, that’s a great investment. And we have a stamp of approval from Washington now, because of all of our innovative events, because you’re here serving and you came up with this innovative idea to host chatting with the mayor. So I kind of pinpointed some of the events that the US Chamber actually recognized us for hosting and being creative. And I personally recognize those individuals who have come up with those events, because our members actually are the ones who helped us come up with these dynamic events, the chamber, which is here to execute and run the day to day operations.

Brandon Burton 21:21
I think that’s so good. I love that you guys did a party, but then it to specifically call out those people as businesses, organizations that had a key impact, you guys getting this distinction? And being able to say this is a role that you played? And I think that allows other businesses to say, Hey, I kind of do something similar. I can see why that’s important. And it kind of builds that momentum amongst your membership. Yeah, we’re on the right track. This is a good,

Dewan Clayborn 21:48
it builds engagement, right. And it shows people you know, we have a thing at my chamber. I don’t know if you’re, you’re like little younger, but there was a show called cheers back in the day. Yeah. Yeah. And so we tell people, we want to be like, cheers, we want to go where everybody knows your names are going to go.

But no, but that’s where we want people to feel engaged and involved. And hey, we’re here because of you. Because truly an honesty, honestly, you know, we are a membership based organization. So we keep our doors, our doors, open our lights on because of your investment in membership. And that’s really what makes a chamber 501 C six versus 501. C threes, because we’re membership based driven.

Brandon Burton 22:38
Yeah. So just for the record, the next line is, you know, everybody’s glad you came.

I got to last right. So as we start wrapping up here, I wanted to ask you for if you had any tip or action item for a chamber listening, maybe they want to go through the accreditation process, what would be your, you know, advice that you would offer to them.

Action Item/Tip for Chamber Champions

Dewan Clayborn 23:06
My advice is just do it, you know, just start the hardest pieces start it is overwhelming when you see all of those sections. When you need the amount of detail that’s require, it is a lot. But remember, there are chamber executives like myself and others that are more than happy to pay for it to be a listening ear and a resource with you. And just know it’s a journey. It’s not a sprint, it’s a marathon. And I’ll just share a quick story with you about me. And for those of y’all that follow me y’all know that I’m pretty kind of straightforward about you know, me and my faith and reasons why I’m operating in my spiritual gifts right now. But because of that, when you go for it, of course, you get, you know, some traction pulling you back. And so, Brandon, what happened to me is we worked on accreditation all year, and I plan to submit by December 31 2021. And tell me why, when we were ready to submit, everything went wrong. I mean, my server shut down, I lost all my files that we’ve been working on all year. The board’s asked me hey, have we submitted have we submitted it? And I’m like, Man, I don’t have I don’t I don’t have any of my documentation. We were actually like going through a switch you know, Outlook has all these tools now was actually Microsoft suite they have all these different tools and so as we were converting over to more of a cloud based structure, all my files are gone. And so here I am December 30 2021. At the chamber really like trying to stick to I’m gonna submit by this year I’ve said is to go you know, to I got to the point where you know, I have another philosophy that you know, clarity is better to speak And so I had to challenge myself and say the one you don’t have enough clarity here, I literally had to start redoing the entire package. And so I was just going through trying to remember the stuff I had and all went and stuff. And it was, it was so much and overwhelming that, you know, I had to go back to one of my philosophies, and I’m like, I don’t have clarity here. So I shouldn’t have be really trying to push in, submit this thing, because, you know, this has been a goal for my board, and me, and I’ve been sticking to it. And so you know, because of COVID, has taught us to pivot. And so I had to have that tough look in the mirror and conversation with myself and say, you know, hey, if we’re gonna do this, we need to do it right. And you’re not ready to submit it, you’ve like really rushed and got through it. But this is not your best work. And so at that point, I had to own it and tell my boy, you know what, it’s not time to do it, we’re going to submit the first quarter of March, and yeah, march 31 2022. And we’re just gonna do it the right way, I don’t feel comfortable. And you know, because they heard that from me, they respected it. And then you did do that. And so around June, July 2022, is when we got the good news that we reached a four star distinction of being a credit. So that long story is just that, hey, you all are gonna run into challenges. It’s just like anything that you’re doing, or why you’re at the chamber when you’re trying to do right, when you’re trying to fight for business, when you’re trying to get you’re structuring your governance, in order for the chamber, as you’re going through that process, just know you’re gonna have challenges is going to happen. And that way you can be more, more challenged, proof and prepare and be more resilient. And, again, feel free to pick up the phone call and call me or someone else that can help get you through that, because it’s tough going through it by yourself, but just know, hopefully, my testimony will help you out that if you are ready to do it, and something happens and you don’t feel confident you feel in your gut that it’s not the right time, it’s okay. It’s okay. Because you don’t want to submit prematurely. You don’t want to do not even get a credit or get three star whatever. And all the quotations are good. Let me not say it that way. But you don’t want to undersell yourself and have that distinction for the next five years, because you were trying to rush and apply. And so in my worst and just be prepared when you’re trying to do good things, that force is gonna try to work against you. But keep that grit keep moving forward, be resilient, utilize your resources. And at the end of the day, you’ll get through it. And you’ll be excited that you went through that journey.

Brandon Burton 27:41
Yeah. And I think like you’re saying in hindsight, had you went ahead and rushed it just to meet that date that you had set that goal date? Right? And yeah, you’d be eaten that year for the next five years that you didn’t put your best foot forward? And it wasn’t it wasn’t a true representation of what you’re

Dewan Clayborn 27:57
learning beyond this podcast.

Brandon Burton 28:04
That’s right. Yeah. So as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Future of Chambers

Dewan Clayborn 28:14
Um, I’ve seen the chamber actually starting back being the authoritative entities in the communities through COVID. The chambers have been in part of big conversations with elected officials, legislative entities, economic development entities, workforce development, we’ve been engaged across the spectrum of different industries, because people are starting to see again, why chambers are so valuable, and why we are here to make the world go around. So I think that right now was big for chambers are focused on those partnerships. You know, right now, I’m reading a book called The CEO excellence, and it talks about the six different mindsets of a CEO. And the one of the interesting things that they say on areas, challenge everything, challenge everything you do, ask why, and be okay with changing things up. And I think that because of COVID, and where we are, in a world, this is the time for chambers to bring back more life to your chamber. Be okay with stopping that program that isn’t profitable. Be okay with creating a more of a work life balance and culture for your staff be okay with having a little bit more fun at work and not stop being so serious, you know, we have to be with our teams with our boards more than we’re with our significant others, so why not have fun with it. And so I think chambers are going to be rising to the top. We have a lot of great chambers currently that are doing some phenomenal things in their communities. And during crisis. We’ve seen chambers step up like never before, and I think that’s just going to continue to happen. And we’re now in that circle and sitting at the table helping make this sages in decisions in order to make our communities survive and thrive, absolutely

Brandon Burton 30:05
love that. So you had a he had put out the invitation there for listeners to reach out with you to give you a call or email to see how you’re doing things, what would be the best way for someone to reach out and connect with you if they wanted to learn more and just get to know you better?

Connect with Dewan Clayborn

Dewan Clayborn 30:21
Thank you. Well, I’m pretty easily fine on social media. So that’s definitely well really more so on Facebook and LinkedIn. And so that’s you can find me there to one Dewan Claiborne’s CLAYBORN or you can always email me at the chamber dewan@leaguecitychamber.com. And then of course, you can always reach out and call our office at 281-338-7339. But yeah, I’m pretty easy to find on LinkedIn, on Facebook, give me a shout. Remember that you are not going through this accreditation journey by yourself. Work smarter, not harder, are od rip off and duplicate get resources from chambers who have already gone through this process. And then once you get it with your board, finagle it, finesse it and make it perfect to fit your chamber.

Brandon Burton 31:18
As perfect. I’ll get your contact information in our show notes for this episode, so people can reach out, you know, connect on on social media or shoot us an email or give me a call. But I think you’ve provided a lot of value today for those listening, especially those who maybe been on the fence of whether or not they want to go through the accreditation process. And whether or not it’s worth it. And I think you put forth a great argument for your bigger investors, and even just the average chamber member about what that value is and how to relate that value back to them and the impact that they’re making on your organization to really stand out and be recognized. So yeah,

Dewan Clayborn 31:56
yeah, if I may, one other thing, you know, what it means for that executive is, I would challenge any chamber executive, that if you have not gone through accreditation, and not just saying you have to submit but going through, like each section, you do not know your business the way you think you do. I don’t care if you’ve been at a chamber for 20 plus years, going through accreditation, from an executive standpoint, I’ve learned so much about my business so much about the chamber, that I can even tell you from a financial standpoint, you know that I am 59% membership with income, and the other percent is non dues revenue. That’s actually one reason I then become a five star, because best practice shows that the US Chamber wants you to be 40%, membership income, and then 60%, non dues revenue. So as I’m getting are gearing up for my next five year, to apply, I need to have a shift in income. And it makes sense because what happened during COVID, people didn’t renew. And so if you’re really heavy, only membership, whenever there’s a crisis, thinking about now, how cripple your chamber could be, which then will have a bad reflection in the community, because you are the one that’s the chamber who are making the community survive and thrive. And so that’s probably my last voice to the executive, the reason why it’s so beneficial for you to do it, because you learn so much. And I mean, even this, like I learned about how much I invest in my stamp of professional development, you know, I was investing around 40 hours a year, but the US Chamber says it should be 60 Plus, you know, that’s what five star chambers do. And so for me, it’s like, wow, I need to, you know, invest more my team. And so I wouldn’t have known any of these numbers if I wouldn’t have gone through the processes. So in order to really know your business, in order to really know your chamber and look at the bones of the organization, I highly recommend any executive to go through that process. Because no matter how long you’ve been in chamber industry, you won’t know your business as well as you will, once you go through the accreditation process.

Brandon Burton 34:11
And I appreciate that perspective of that feedback that you get back Yeah, through this process to say, to become a five star I need to do this and this. And like you said, as far as your dues revenue versus non dues revenue, and I think it would be to your benefit to have even more diversity in that non dues revenue.

Dewan Clayborn 34:31
Yeah, it makes sense. You know, and you never as a chamber executive, we don’t think about it from that perspective. You know, we’re, hey, membership, membership membership. But if you’re able to do a shift in your financial strategy, it makes you more resilient as a chamber.

Brandon Burton 34:48
Absolutely. Absolutely. And relevant going forward to because you’re involved in different things so well, I think this has been a great discussion one I really Appreciate you joining us today on chamber chat podcast and again, I’d encourage anybody has any questions to reach out and connect with you and you can tell you know, Don’s got some some excitements and passion behind this. So they chat and learn more from him but uh, Duan thanks for being with us today. I really do appreciate it.

Dewan Clayborn 35:18
Hi, Brandon. Thanks for having me. Looking forward to coming back any topic you want to talk about? I love it. I want to pivot myself as a regional collaborator. And so I want to share resources I want to help other chambers, and I want everybody to be great and survive and thrive throughout these unprecedented times.

Brandon Burton 44:58
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Lessons Learned to Start 2022

Estimated reading time: 10 minutes, 30 seconds.

As we are starting a new year, we are still in the midst of this worldwide COVID pandemic. I thought it would be helpful to share some tips in the written form to help you shortcut the work at your Chamber by sharing some lessons learned over the past 3 years of producing the Chamber Chat Podcast.

What Have We Learned?

Many Chambers are operating with fewer staff at the moment. Many have shifted what their working environment looks like by allowing for more work from home opportunities. Depending on where you are located, there may still be restrictions on the number of people who can gather at events. Each of these challenges present unique obstacles but I believe they also provide opportunities for growth.

Robert Kiyosaki, author of Rich Dad, Poor Dad, states that “Inside every problem lies an opportunity”.

Chambers have had to take a strong look at their value propositions and mission statements. As Chambers have done this, they have found ways to prove and show their relevance more than ever.

I have now been working in the Chamber world for over 15 years in the Chamber publishing space and 3 years with Chamber Chat Podcast. Over this time, I have learned a lot about what Chambers do, how they operate, the impact Chambers have in their communities, and I have also learned that many people in any given community don’t even know that their local Chamber exists or have any clue as to what a Chamber of Commerce does. I am working on a new project that will address this, so stay tuned for more details to come on this front soon.

2019 Lesson Highlights

At the end of each year while producing Chamber Chat Podcast, I have recorded a summary episode that highlights some of the key lessons that I learned that year that relates to the Chamber industry.

In 2019, some of the key lessons were:

A Chamber can and should be much more than a networking business community.
The importance of great community partnerships.
The need for talent & workforce development.
The importance of staying true to your strategic plan.
The future is bright for Chambers that stay relevant.

You can access this episode and it’s show notes and the other lessons learned at chamberchatpodcast.com/episode50.

2020 Lesson Highlights

In 2020, as the pandemic hit and Chambers were stressed in new and complicated ways. As a result, several new lessons rose up to the top. In fact, I covered 20 lessons learned in 2020 for that year’s summary episode. Some of those key lessons were:

Trim the fat by burning sacred cows.
Chambers need to be agile to make quick pivots.
Set aside reserves in your budget.
We learned how to go virtual and how to use new digital tools.
Many Chambers saw podcasting as a way to stay connected with their members and community.
Probably the number 1 lesson from 2020 was the need to be flexible!

Lessons from 2021

As the “new normal” sets in, additional lessons need to be applied, which should help to sustain Chambers moving forward. Because of the timely relevance to these lessons, I will expand more than just a few highlighted bullet points. You can also access my lessons from 2021 at chamberchatpodcast.com/episode153.

Finance & Membership Models

Many membership organizations have had to really evaluate their overall structure. Everything from finances to membership models to strategic partnerships were on the table for discussion to keep their organizations in operation and to provide the needed service and value to their members. Some organizations saw the value in merging with another similarly aligned organization, possibly a tourism or economic development organization. Some Chambers even came together to create more of a county-wide or regional organization. There is value and strength in coming together. However, going back to one of the lessons from 2019, a Chamber must stay true to their strategic plan.

Some Chambers did not see the need to merge with another organization but they saw the need to create a triage for their business community whether or not a business was currently a dues paying member of their Chamber. As recovery from the pandemic started to pick up steam, some Chambers saw value in creating a free membership offering. I like the idea of how these Chambers are setting up these freemium models, but I would personally like to see the data from this model being implemented at other Chambers before applying it to my own.

In my opinion, Chambers are all about advancing their communities. This is accomplished through advocacy, networking, and connecting the right individuals for a stronger business environment. Doing these things will help to strengthen all areas of their community.

Online Communities

So, when more people are less involved in their communities, how does a Chamber go about doing this great work?

Well, one answer might be through creating strong online communities as a starting point. Online communities might serve as an on ramp to get others involved which can then transition into more in-person relationships. In today’s world, a Chamber would be doing a disservice to themselves if they are not utilizing the power and leverage of an online community.

Keep in mind that with many generations living and working in your community, they each prefer different methods of communication. Some really like in person events. Some will never attend an event but they will engage and support the Chamber in big ways through their screens.

Join the Chamber Chat Champions Facebook group to learn from others and share your thoughts on topics covered on the Chamber Chat Podcast.

Online communities can be set up on platforms such as Facebook. My word of caution is that you create a strategic plan for your online community BEFORE you launch it. This will help you in creating community guidelines and will guide you in the creation and frequency of content. This strategic plan should also create a road map for the member experience.

Preparing for the Future

Futureproofing is the next lesson that I will address. When COVID first reared its head, almost everyone caught off guard. Consumers made panic purchases of obscene amounts of toilet paper, business owners who were solely brick and mortar didn’t know if or when they would be allowed to open their doors again. Chambers adapted quickly to keep their business community apprised of government mandates and regulations, but at the same time were needing to cancel most of their non-dues revenue generators. Chambers were not prepared for this major disruption.

Moving forward, I would encourage Chambers to think and to prepare for worst case scenarios. How will you continue to serve your members if you had to shut down again? How will you bring in revenue if you are unable to gather and if businesses don’t know where their next dollar will come from? This idea of futureproofing can be wrapped in with the previous point of creating a strong plan for an online community. This can allow for you to pivot quickly and to deliver content and information to the people who need it the most.

Your Role as an Influencer

Casey Steinbacher’s e-book “From Relevant to Essential” laid out a great argument that shows why Chambers need to understand their role as influencers in their communities. I would encourage everyone to read this book for the full effect, but in a nutshell, we live in a world that is very different than it was 20 or 30 years ago. The newer generations engage in different ways and they tune into different voices. One of the main points of her book is to urge Chambers to embrace their role as influencers.

We don’t normally think of Chambers as influencers, but why are Chambers so great at conveening people and organizations for a greater cause…because they are influencers. Why do businesses join their local Chamber and ask for input on staffing, marketing, accounting, etc…because they are influencers.

Most Chambers turn to social media to flex their influence muscle. I find that many people turn to social media to tune out and they are not usually in the mindset to engage with Chamber content as it comes across their feed. Podcasts however, offer a much more intimate way to share information, and establish or reinforce your influence in the community.

Strategic Partnerships

This year as I did the Chamber of the Year Finalist interviews, each Chamber talked about their response to the COVID pandemic. Almost every Chamber shared how they created a strategic partnership with either their local Small Business Association, local banks, or other similar organizations to help distribute financial resources and relief to the businesses in their communities.

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These types of partnerships can open doors to new services and opportunities. These opportunities will help Chambers better serve their business community going forward.

Diversity, Equity & Inclusion

We have seen people and organizations of all types recognize the need for more focus and attention on diversity, equity and inclusion. Unfortunately it took the murder of George Floyd for the many of the racial injustices to rise to a higher level of importance. On the positive side, this extra focus on racial equity also allowed for a greater focus on other areas of diversity. It opened our minds to new ideas on how to be more inclusive to people who have traditionally been left out of our organizations for a variety of reasons. We also realized the need to provide more equitable opportunities for everyone in our communities. I believe we still have a long way to go with diversity, equity and inclusion, but we are going in the right direction.

Horseshoes vs. Chess

Anyone who listens to the Chamber Chat Podcast on a regular basis will know how much I love Dave Adkisson’s book “Horseshoes vs. Chess”. This book is what I describe as the best portrayal of what a Chamber of Commerce is and should be as well as what a Chamber Exec is and should be.

We are often asked what Chambers of Commerce do. Horseshoes vs. Chess helps to answer that question in a way that ordinary (non-Chamber) people can understand.

In the book, Dave shares an analogy about Chamber work compared to the games of horseshoes and chess. Some people look at Chamber work the same way they look at a game of horseshoes at a picnic. You don’t have to know much about the game, you can just toss your horseshoes towards your stake and if you get close you get a point.

Dave shares how Chamber work is really much more like a game of chess. You have different pieces that can do different things and you need to understand the role of each piece. One piece may be education. Another piece might be workforce development, and another tourism, and another economic development, etc. The idea is that you must know what each piece is capable of doing while also understanding that you can’t move all of the pieces at the same time. I think this analogy is perfect and it should resonate with most Chamber professionals.

Make Pivots

The final lesson that I will share from 2021 is that I need to make some pivots. I am coming up on the third anniversary of Chamber Chat Podcast. While I still plan to continue with the podcast, I do have some other new and exciting opportunities and projects that I am working on that I hope to reveal very soon. Hopefully you and your Chamber have noticed areas where you can grow and improve as well. In the end, it is about providing the best value and the highest level of service possible.

I wish you all a very successful 2022. I am sure it will be full of new lessons that will help us move closer to our potential. Keep up the great work!

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Also, be sure you are subscribed to Chamber Chat Podcast in your favorite podcast app. Subscribers are the first to get episodes as new ones come out each week.

Chamber Financials with Lindsay Frilling

Below is an auto-generated transcription of my conversation with Lindsay Frilling. Because this is auto-generated there are likely some grammatical errors but it is still a useful tool to search text within this podcast episode.

Feel free to join our Chamber Chat Champions Facebook Group to discuss this episode and to share your own experiences and tips with other Chamber Champions.

Introduction

Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

And now, your host he thinks this is not a fun time to purchase a used car. He’s my dad Brandon Burton. Hello chamber champions.

Brandon Burton 0:23
Hello Chamber Champions. Welcome to the Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your host Brandon Burton, and it is my goal to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

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Doug & Bill Holman know how to diagnose and solve
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that knowledge to work for you and your chamber. Learn more at HolmanBros.com.

Guest Introduction

Our guest for today is Lindsay Frilling. Lindsay serves as the CEO for the Obion County Joint Economic Development Corporation which includes the Obion County Chamber of Commerce, and Obion County and Industrial Development Corporation. Lindsay joined the OCJEDC in 2009. Prior to joining the OCJEDC, that’s a mouthful. Lindsay was the director of marketing and special events for the Boys and Girls Club of Northwest Tennessee in Union County, and is also the former customer service supervisor for Midwest CBK. Lindsay holds a Bachelors of Science in Business Administration with a concentration in Management Information Systems from the University of Tennessee at Martin and a Master of Business Administration from UTM. Lindsay is a graduate of Tennessee chamber Institute and US Chamber Institute organization management and earned her certified economic developer designation from the International Economic Development Council. As an active member of the Tennessee Chamber of Commerce executives, Tennessee economic partnership, and Tennessee Economic Development Council. Lindsay currently serves on the board of directors of for all three organizations and was chosen for the 2016 s EDC Chairman’s Award. Lindsay is a past president of the Tennessee Chamber of Commerce executives and served on the Tennessee Chamber of Commerce and Industry board of directors. In 2015. She was named as one of West Tennessee’s up and coming top 40 under 40. Lindsay is a proud mother of two children alley, Kate and Houston.

Lindsay, I’m excited to have you with me today. You’re on Chamber Chat Podcast. And I’d love for you to take a moment to say hello to all the chamber champions that are out there listening and share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better.

Something Interesting About Lindsay

Lindsay Frilling 3:19
Well, thanks, Brandon. I’m excited to be here today. Um, the all the exciting things you said, have a degree in it, which just kind of makes me a nerd. I guess my two kids. The fun fact about them is they’re nine years apart, really not sure why I decided to wait almost a decade. But it’s a fun ride. One went to high school and one went to preschool this year. So you know, life. Life is interesting to say the least. But you know, being in the chamber world, they are the reason I do what I do every day. So it makes life even better knowing that I’m helping to create a community in an environment that if they choose to live here, when they are old enough, then they can find a job and have a good quality of life.

Brandon Burton 4:06
Absolutely helping to build that future for the rising generation. I love it. The good news is they’re both in school now. So that’s awesome.

Lindsay Frilling 4:16
Yes, yes.

Brandon Burton 4:19
Well, share with us a little bit more about the your, your organization there kind of the size, scope, staff budget, those kinds of things to kind of set the table for our discussion today.

About the Obion County Joint Economic Development Corporation

Lindsay Frilling 4:31
Well, I’ll just say we’re in Union City. We’re in the very northwest corner of the state of Tennessee, so I’m located on the Kentucky border, almost to the Mississippi River to the Missouri Bootheel. Just to give people frame of reference, I’ll say Northwestern say they say Knoxville I’m like no West northeast, so I’m probably closer to Dallas, Texas than I am Knoxville. So two hours north of Memphis three hours west of Nashville. Three and a half hour south of St. Louis. So that kind of gives you an idea of where we’re located. Pretty much all of the Northwest Tennessee area is considered rural area. I’m about an hour from Jackson, Tennessee, and an hour from Paducah, Kentucky. So that would be your, your closest metropolitan ish areas near us. Um, my county that we serve, has a population of around 30,000. And we have myself and one other full time staff member, I have a part time staff person and currently have an intern from the University of Tennessee at Martin so to full time to part time right now. Our budget will run anywhere from 400 to $500,000 a year, we collect dues as we are a Chamber of Commerce in an Economic Development and Tourism Organization or our income comes in the form of membership dues from Chamber members, industrial members and hotel tax collections, which is really what keeps the doors open. As many of you know, memberships just really don’t give you enough money to have a good operating budget.

Brandon Burton 6:18
So that does set the table. Well, especially for our topic of discussion today being focused more around chamber financials and kind of what does it take to keep those doors open and the lights on in your office. And we will get into this discussion as soon as I get back from this quick break.

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Topic-Chamber Financials

Alright, Lindsay, we are back. So as we get into the topic today of chamber financials, I wanted to discuss this topic, specifically because we’re this time in chamber world, it seems like there’s been quite a bit of turnover with people retiring or go into the private sector. So we have a lot of new executives that are entering the chamber world space and trying to get their heads wrapped around. Yeah, the management of the office, the Chamber financials is a big, important part of that. So it’s hoping to just have a discussion around chamber financials, I know you’ve, you’ve seen kind of, you know, different ends of the spectrum when it comes to chamber financials. But I’m hoping we can get into maybe some best practices and things for these newer chamber executives to think about as they go about their budget and, and where to spend money. So maybe just as a starter, as you’re trying to get your head wrapped around what we talked about today. I know you had some reflections on on previous times. What are what’s maybe a couple lessons that you’ve learned when it comes to managing chamber financials?

Lindsay Frilling 9:12
Well, me personally, a treat it as if it’s my own money. And my first question is what I spend this if it was my money. And then the second question is, you know, obviously would would the board approve of this? And third, would it benefit my members? So first, those are just basics. You know? Unfortunately, I’ve served on boards over the years with very, very intelligent people, business people, business owners, and we get into a room and we’ll be making financial decisions for whatever organization it is, and they they make decisions and I’m thinking would you do this in your business? Would you do this with your own money? And I’m thinking No, you wouldn’t because you wouldn’t be as wealthy as you are, if you did so. I try to keep Have everything in the frame of reference of what I do it for myself, and would my members appreciate this spin or this purchase? Or, you know, whatever it is just keeping that first and foremost in whatever decision it is that’s made about money. Because I mean, as you probably have heard, involve your podcast, not many people wake up, grow up and say, oh, I want to be a chamber executive when I grew up, I mean, because most people don’t still know what a Chamber of Commerce is. So I kind of bounced around and landed into this job. And then the next thing I know, they were like, well, here are you do you do QuickBooks take care of that for us write the checks. And, and I got into it. And, of course, I fortunately had a business degree. So I knew how to read financials, I guess the first thing is, is if you don’t know how to read a profit and loss statement, or a balance sheet, go take a class, go sit down with somebody, ask somebody to help you understand those basics. I’m not to insult anybody. But you know, you’ve got to be able to know what’s coming in what’s going out and where it’s going. And then I started doing some projections as I got to look at these numbers, because I realized quickly that way more was going out and what was coming in on a monthly basis. And I finally said, Hey, by this month, six months down the road, like we’re gonna be negative, this chart is going down, up. So I was, you know, I was freaked out. I was like, I want to have a job in six months. So what are we going to do? And so that worked itself out eventually. But in the meantime, I spent the next several years just, I mean, basically saving money pinching pennies, and trying not to spend money unless it was absolutely necessary while still providing the services to our members.

Brandon Burton 11:58
So this question, maybe, kind of basic, but you had mentioned earlier on about, yeah, they’re at your organization, you have chamber work, you have Economic Development and Tourism. So you’re getting income from those different areas. And not every chamber is set up the same way. Some are just doing chamber work. Some will have an economic development contract, and some will focus more on tourism, but you’re, you know, blessed enough, if that’s the word you want to use. Three. But there are different revenue sources. So when you’re looking at projections, and you’re seeing, you know, the expenses going up, and the income, not keeping up with the expenses, besides cutting expenses, which obviously, that’s something to be looked at. What do you do as far as revenue generation? Are there maybe some thoughts around non dues revenue that a newer chamber executive maybe should consider and contemplate doing?

Lindsay Frilling 13:04
Well, I guess the first thing is, is look at what’s already being done in your chamber. And if it’s not making money, you need to get rid of it, or you need to change it, period. We don’t just because we’re called a quote, unquote, nonprofit, that’s for one day of the year, that’s when we file taxes. That’s the only day that the nonprofit status means anything. We are the voice of business as that we are the largest business in the community, we must operate like a business, everything we do must generate revenue. And that sounds very selfish, but to your question to answer that, if you’re doing things and it’s not making money, it’s not benefiting you. It’s not benefiting your members, because you’re not operating at a sustainable level. With that said, Do you offer complimentary things to your members? Absolutely. But you know, say free, you know, you know, go out and promote as oh, we’re doing this as a as a goodwill for the community. Because you can do that you can do it as an isolated event or something that you know, wraps around something else. But in the long term, whatever it is, whether you host a golf tournament, even your annual banquet, like you don’t need to lose money on those events. And the first thing you’ve got to do is make sure your board members understand that because I tell people all the time, you know, you all as the board, own this organization, I’m the hired help to make sure that I run it the way that you want it ran. So you know, you got to have those hard conversations, but if they’re on the board, that means they’re more vested in the organization than just your average member anyway, so you lean on them to lead the charge. Let them be the first ones to offer up a sponsorship or whatever it may be. Just start the generation of revenue or whatever the event is, or just a capital campaign.

Brandon Burton 15:05
And so you had mentioned, kind of the criteria that you look at the money can be treated as your own money, get to make sure the board approves the spending of the money, and does it help the members. So as you have these discussions with a board, whether it’s you or chamber executive listening, looking to have a conversation, one of these tough conversations, any any advice on how to help them navigate, kind of the difficult conversation that may come up from time to time,

Lindsay Frilling 15:38
um, you it, find a mentor, find somebody to have this conversation with first, somebody else, probably best to find somebody geographically located near you. Because in this area where we live, our county mayors talk to the next county mayor or the next city mayor or the next elected official or the next board chair, like they’re always talking. So you know, the best thing to do is find out what’s happening around you figure out how they have the conversations, figure out how money is spent, how boards operate, I mean, and and I say it all the time chambers are like fruit, but we’re all different fruit, apples, or just bananas, because every chamber operates differently because your chamber has to operate to fit your community. And just because your community sits next door to another one, doesn’t mean you’re going to have the same needs. And I mean, we’re we have a huge tourism draw, we have Discovery Park of America and Reelfoot Lake. And then you know, the next community down may not have those assets. So we have to tailor our programs and services to fit the community. So find somebody close to you, but also find somebody similar to you another chamber or chamber Exec. I’m a firm believer in mentorship and ask questions, ask questions, ask questions, because you know, r&d in this world is rip off and duplicate what’s working over there, and you think it’s gonna work for you scale it up, scale it down, put it in place, give it a try. And you know, find a champion, find a champion for your chamber, find a personal champion for you, and have that volunteer by your side. Because, you know, the first role of the chamber world is keep a volunteer between you in the issue. And that issue is always money, whether it’s a positive issue or a negative issue, it’s always an issue. So, you know, find somebody close that you can keep as your champion, whether it be your current president or somebody else on the board, but you’ve got to have a mentor, you’ve got to have a volunteer, you got to have people around you because you cannot do this work on your own.

Brandon Burton 17:58
Absolutely. I love that. That advice of having a mentor specifically someone within your region because your state your region, it’s going to vary from you know, a chamber in California to a chamber in Maine is going to be very different. So find out some of those best practices in your area. One thing I wanted to ask you about as as far as like income to expense, during the COVID pandemic, we realized how important it was for a chamber to have reserves. You know, when when PvP loans are going out and and chamber most chambers didn’t qualify? How do you look at income versus income to expense and specifically, setting aside reserves that kind of that rainy day fund?

Lindsay Frilling 18:45
Well, as I said, I’ve served on a lot of boards and different capacities in generally, the best practice that we aim for, is keep a reserve of half of an annual costs. So whatever your annual budget is, have your goal is to set aside half of that. Now, Is that realistic for everybody? Absolutely not. But, you know, it gives you six months of time should something, you know, catastrophic occur. So that’s just generally what I have seen. Again, that number could fluctuate up and down, depending on the type of organization you have. But, you know, people want to tell you three months, but in reality, how quickly does three months go by when you’re in the middle of a crisis? I mean, six is going to go pretty quickly, but at least you’ve got double that amount of time, if you can, if you can aim to, you know, put back at least half of your operating budget for the year.

Brandon Burton 19:50
Yeah, I think for me, it goes back to treating it as your own money. So if you look at your own personal finances, right, the recommendation is save for a rainy day right? If If you were to go unemployed for some period of time, maybe it’s ideally and I hear different numbers. But you know, some people will say try to have a year’s worth of savings. And that’s not feasible when you’re just starting, right? If you’re starting from zero, but you build up to it, right. So whether it’s a percentage each, each month that you’re putting aside or whatever, you got to start somewhere

Lindsay Frilling 20:24
in savings should be a part of your budget, just with your business, just as it should be with your personal income. And as you said, I would much rather have six months of my personal expenses than three, but if I’m going to go to six, you know what, I’m going to go to 12, I’m going to get there. So nothing’s to keep you from raising the bar, once you hit that 50% to just keep on going, you know, and putting it into investing it, you know, letting it make money for you. So that, you know, down the road, your chamber is sustainable, and you don’t have to go through the struggles of you know, where we’re going to get our next meal. I mean, you know, that’s reality for a lot of chambers. But it doesn’t have to be if you know, you try to put all of these puzzle pieces together. I mean, it’s not going to happen quickly. I’ve been at this 12 years. And I will say that it probably hasn’t been until the last two to three years that I’ve actually felt comfortable about our finances.

Brandon Burton 21:26
Wow, that says a lot what these last two to three years have been. So yeah, well, let’s say if you could tell us a little bit more about that. He’s the had mentioned about investing those reserves. Just for, say a new executive, is that something a chamber can do? What options are there? Who should they talk to what what would be your thoughts?

Lindsay Frilling 21:50
We have in the past, we’ve had CDs, we’ve had that money put into CDs at certain rates, we’ve had it small CDs, large CDs, we’ve had different funding financial funds. With that, I mean, again, that’s going to go back to your chamber your board. Right now, my board chairman is a CPA, so I pretty well have a sweet deal going on when it comes to that. So he’s very helpful. But again, in within your community, reach out, utilize those resources, utilize those members that you have asked for a meeting and go ask that question, say, would you even if they’re not on your board, would you be willing to sit down and look at this budget with me? And help me go through this? Give me your thoughts, because you know, they’re the experts. Chamber execs are generalist, we know, we know a whole lot about a lot of things. But we’re not necessarily experts in any one thing. And generally not financials we need to be I mean, I’ve made it a goal over the years for that to be my forte, I want to know everything about my budget inside and out. But I didn’t come into it that way. I’ve just learned and asked questions. And, you know, being almost broke at one time, helped me get there a lot more quickly than most people. But my I definitely, definitely recommend contacting your local members and just asking for 30 minutes of their time to sit down and say, Hey, what do we do? How do we look? And if we wanted to get to X amount of savings, then what what can we do with it because you know, what we do in the chamber world is manage expectations every day. And if we can set that goal and cast that vision of, hey, we want to have this amount of income each month, we want to save this much each month, we want to get to this much in savings. And then once we get there, we want to put it in invest it here or put it over here and let this money make money for us.

Brandon Burton 24:03
I think that is a wise piece of advice. I don’t hear a whole lot of chambers talk about that. So I’m glad to have you gone a little deeper about investing some of those reserves. Are there certain metrics? Maybe the look at his you look at it. Well, maybe let me back up. profit and loss statements. How often should you be looking at over?

Lindsay Frilling 24:30
I reconcile ours monthly, and some chambers wait and get audited annually. And then you know, if there was a discrepancy, you won’t find it for 12 months, three months, whatever timeframe. And, I mean, I again at home, I’m not going to wait 12 months to look at my balance in my checking account. So why would I do that at work? So I literally You know, write checks, pay bills make deposits throughout the month, but at the end of the month, I sit down, reconcile it and QuickBooks, send it to the accountant and they put their stamp on it every single month. And it keeps us because it’s essentially, the way it’s set up. It’s essentially as we’re getting audited every single month, so that we’re not going through and paying for a massive audit once a year, it’s literally getting their stamp every single month. And if you’re not doing it, at least monthly, you should be.

Brandon Burton 25:36
And it gives you a good pulse to as to the healthier chamber, the financial health of your chamber, where things are at, if there needs to be adjustments made, you’re not waiting till the end of the year, it’s easier to make small adjustments along the way to get to that end goal. Well, and

Lindsay Frilling 25:51
we’re a chamber that collects days, once a year, I know there are chambers that lets you come in and pay as you go, which is fine. But for accounting purposes, it’s just easier for us to bill in July, the beginning of our fiscal year, and then spend, you know, three months that window of time collecting the money and bringing it in. Now it makes it tough because toward getting closer to June, you have less income. So your p&l doesn’t look as healthy as it does in July, August, September. But again, that’s what a budget is for, you know what to expect throughout the year, you know, who’s going to renew and how much you’re going to have pretty much the first quarter of your calendar year, what are your fiscal year, whatever that is. And then as people join throughout the year, we just prorate their days, whatever right that is. And then we bill everybody in July. Again, what works for you is on you. But like it keeps us from having somebody having to manage that piece of our budget in our organization every month. I mean, it just, you know when you have and 5060 members may seem tiny to some people. But imagine if you have 2030 4050 of those a month, and you’re sending out invoices every single month, I mean, ah, my personal opinion is prorate those days, get them all done at once. And that way you kind of know, early on in your year, what’s your incomes gonna be, especially if your chambers are your sole source of income?

Brandon Burton 27:31
I like that. And obviously, every chamber is different. So they’re gonna approach it differently. But as you look over your your p&l, are there certain, certain indicators that you look at to kind of measure the health of your organization?

Lindsay Frilling 27:46
Well, you know, there’s so many numbers and percentages out there about what your your salary and compensation percentage should be of total revenue. And I’ve looked ACC has information, your State Chamber will have information. And, you know, unfortunately, and this is really difficult for people that are looking to outsiders that look at your budget to understand that we don’t we don’t make a product, we don’t make widgets. So our biggest expense is our people, it’s going to be in payroll and salary. And when people look at your budget, and they see that it’s over 50% of what’s going out the door. Some people really you know, are taken aback by that. But you have to just again, manage that expectation and say, We are a service organization, we are marketing, we are everything except for creating a product. So we don’t have any necessarily raw materials going into our process and into our budget that we’re paying for. We’re paying for talent. And that’s probably the biggest line item that you’re going to have to overcome in the chamber world that and travel because if you’re not out traveling and interacting with others, you know that some of the best things that I’ve learned as a chamber exec has come from other chamber execs, networking with those executives, attending conferences, attending trainings, Tennessee has an awesome Institute, a two year program that’s, you know, a couple of days long, I did that and then transitioned right into the US Chamber Institute, but it’s expensive, you know, so that can be kind of a line item that sticks out in your education and your travel expenses. Again, you’ve got those two just tied directly back into what I was talking about your people your talent, and if you’re not investing in your talent, you’re going to lose your talent. And again, I’ll go back and say it all day. Long we need to operate as a business and how many businesses do you know that do not invest in their people? I mean, if they’re not, then they’re probably not going to make it.

Brandon Burton 30:11
And to your point, if you were making widgets, you should be looking at ways to source better materials or better logistics for distribution, and you’re putting money into that to get a better return. And when your core product is your people, you got to put the money into them to make them better, to better serve.

Lindsay Frilling 30:30
And if you you know, a lot of chambers can’t pay at the pay scale that your businesses can they should be. I mean, that’s a conversation I have a lot. I’m like, if we’re representing business, we need to be hiring like a business, we need to be paying like a business, we need to be compensating like a business. And I wouldn’t have said that 10 years ago, because I didn’t have the money to do it. But you know, now we’re there. And I’m like, we are a business, there’s no reason to keep saying, Oh, your nonprofit, you can’t pet Yes, you should be able to is numb people should always be number one. And in everything you’re thinking about as a chamber, internally and externally. But it’s got to start from within. Because if you’re not taking care of your people inside, they’re not going to go out and take care of your members, businesses outside. I mean, I literally hire people for passion. And then I can teach them how to do it, because I can’t teach them to care. I can’t make them care. And if they don’t care about people, and they don’t care about the community, they don’t need to be at a Chamber of Commerce. Right? Sure. Well, so being able to allow them to go travel and network and get training to me is a little can add to that overall compensation package. Job.

Brandon Burton 31:52
So everyone listening needs to take like the last four or five minutes and send it to your board. Just a little friendly. Listen, you know, this is this is coming from a you know, well respected chamber executive. Yeah, it just, it’s not coming from you individually. So just a friendly tip there. But

Lindsay Frilling 32:14
say it all the time. You can, I can say it all day. But if I just bring somebody else in to say it, you know, it becomes gospel. So you know, yeah, use my words. It’s fun, it won’t be the first time.

Brandon Burton 32:25
Yeah. So as we start wrapping up here, I’d like to ask if you have any, maybe a tip or action item, the chair for anyone listening that they can do to help take their chamber up to the next level.

Action Item/Tip for Chamber Champions

Lindsay Frilling 32:38
As I said, Go to chamber Institute, whether it’s state level US Chamber Institute, invest in yourself, invest in your people, get a mentor, two or three of those, always keep a volunteer between you and the issue. Be authentic, and don’t accept the invitation to every argument you’re invited to attend. Because the Chamber’s you know, it’s fun when it’s fun. But then when it’s bad, we tend to get all we get, we don’t get the credit, we always get the blame. And I just always, always tell my people when you know, Facebook, or whatever, people are being negative, you know, just consider the source know that what you’re doing is good. And if you’re doing it right, you’re laying your head down at night, and you can sleep and just let the rest of it go.

Brandon Burton 33:30
Yeah, that’s good. So as we look to the future of chambers, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Future of Chambers

Lindsay Frilling 33:39
We’re always going to be the voice of business. And business is driven by people. So it’s always going to be about people, whether it’s in education, workforce development, entrepreneurship, whatever we can do to help people is always it always has been, and it’s always going to be where we go. So I think it just goes back to what I said earlier, you got to care about your people, you got to care about your community, and you got to hire staff that have the same thoughts and feelings about it. And then you help others whether whether it’s the economic development organization, the Tourism Organization, Main Street, downtown organizations, just make yourself the hub of the community when somebody wants to know something or needs to know something, make them think I’m going to call the chamber.

Brandon Burton 34:30
That’s right. And you know, most responses I get to that question are pretty similar, but I love just kind of hammering that home, you know that chambers are about people. And the feature of chambers is about strengthening your communities and making your communities better. And those responses I get come from all different points of view. So I hope it’ll continue to resonate with everyone listening and really getting that sense of the purpose of what chambers are all about. But Lindsey Before we let you go, I wanted to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for anyone listening who might want to reach out and connect with you what would be the best way for them to reach out and do that,

Connect with Lindsay Frilling

Lindsay Frilling 35:10
um, you can reach me my cell phone number is 731-592-1083 which is the best way because as you know, for sitting behind a desk, we’re not being very effective for our community. So that is my cell phone number. My email is lindsay@obioncounty.org and you can always find us online.

Brandon Burton 35:46
Awesome. I will get all that in our show notes for this episode, which will be at chamberchatpodcast.com/episode156. But Lindsay, thank you for spending time with me today here on Chamber Chat Podcast. I think the perspective that you brought and and just experience around chamber financials is very helpful for those who are just getting their, their feet wet. And really, you know, I’m going to reiterate it you know, get a mentor. Get with people in your region, your communities, neighboring communities and see what they’re doing and and learn from others. So, thank you for that, Lindsay. And it’s been a pleasure chatting with you.

Lindsay Frilling 36:28
You too. Thank you so much for having me.

Brandon Burton 30:28
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