Category: Podcast Episode

Policy & Advocacy with Brian Francis

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your hosts Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

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Brandon Burton 1:44
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Our guest for this episode is Brian Francis. Brian is founder and CEO of Lumin Strategies, a firm that helps Chambers of Commerce build eight plus advocacy programs through one on one consulting and a signature of advocacy framework online program. Brian’s experience covers nearly all facets of the policy and political world from political campaign leadership on successful bond referendum to successful advocacy as a registered lobbyists. He is past public affairs officer for Mecklenburg County and past vice president of public policy programs at the Charlotte Chamber of Commerce. He founded lumen strategies in 2016. This year, Brian joins the faculty for the US Chamber Institute of Organizational Management. He has a bachelor’s degree in political science from Davidson College, whose basketball program he’s supported since before Steph Curry. Brian, I’m excited to have you with us today here on Chamber Chat Podcast, I’d love to give you a moment to say hello to all the Chamber Champions who are out there listening and to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better. Well,

Brian Francis 3:11
great. Thanks, Brandon. I’m really excited to be with you all today. And you hit on one interest, perhaps interesting thing about me I’m big, big college basketball fan. So the last couple months have obviously been a lot of fun for me, both for my alma mater, Davidson College, but also in the Big East. My son is a freshman at Butler this year. And so we’ve been following them. A more controversial thing about me perhaps one of my passions is that I think we should eliminate timezones. And we can certainly talk about that. But that’s probably a different podcast.

Brandon Burton 3:42
Yeah, you can get on your soapbox there for a moment right. Now, that’s great. So I’d like for you to take just a few minutes and tell us a little bit about lumens strategies, what the company is like, who you serve, and it’s about advocacy, but just maybe in a brief nutshell, to kind of set the stage for discussion. Yeah,

Brian Francis 4:04
probably like a lot of companies. You know, we’ve evolved over time. So we’ve been in business for about eight years, we started as a strategic communications consulting firm, that really dabbled in a lot of different areas. But over the last several years, we’ve really honed in on chambers of commerce and helping them build advocacy programs. And we we do that two ways. One, we work one on one with chambers in a consulting role many times serving essentially as the VP of public policy for their Chamber of Commerce. In fact, some of our clients put us on their staff page as their Director of Advocacy or VP of public policy. And we also work with chambers of commerce through our signature online program, the advocacy framework. This is oftentimes for chambers that maybe are a little bit smaller, aren’t looking for the kind of the investment required to have somebody working directly with them. But what to get involved with advocacy wants to learn how to do advocacy, and through our program, we basically teach them how to institute and run a public policy or advocacy program.

Brandon Burton 5:06
That’s very helpful. And as listener might guess, we’ve decided on a topic for our discussion today to be centered around advocacy since you guys are kind of the experts on that. So we look, we look forward to dive in deeper into this topic as soon as we get back from this quick break.

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Alright, Brian, we’re back. So before the break, when you were telling us a little bit about lumen strategies, it’s obviously a company that you built around helping chambers of commerce and build advocacy programs. Why do you think that advocacy programs are so important for chambers to be involved with?

Brian Francis 7:23
Well, if you think about chambers of commerce, historically, really, the whole reason we have Chambers of Commerce is to help businesses in a community grow. And chambers do a lot of great work around networking activities, helping their members meet potential customers. But I think a core part of helping the business community grows, ensuring that there is a public policy climate that allows for businesses to grow. And really, Chambers of Commerce were instituted to represent business interests in their community. And so from a foundational perspective, I think it’s really important. I think it’s also really important as you talk to maybe your higher investor members, you know, a lot of times if you have a manufacturer in your community, they’re not looking to sell to the community, their market is global. If they’re going to get involved in the chamber, they need a different value proposition. And really the value proposition for them is what are you doing to make the overall business climate better, so their business can succeed? Absolutely.

Brandon Burton 8:25
And I know chambers of all different sizes, you know, they’re in different areas of spectrum, right, as far as being involved with advocacy. So I’m hopeful that our conversation today will help shed some light on different ways to get involved on an advocacy front, whether that’s bringing in somebody like yourself to help with that effort, or just to expose them in ways to to better support those business members that they have. So kind of along those lines with advocacy. I think there’s a real argument to have ag advocacy as an investor hook. Right. So as you’re going after new members, you’re trying to bring in new businesses to join the chamber. How would you see using advocacy as an investor hook? Well,

Brian Francis 9:15
I really do think it is something and you have to think about your high level investors, it is a way to get them to participate more in your chamber and to put more money into your chamber. And you there’s some four boxes out there people will have probably seen when you think about your Chamber members, you have chambers who Chamber members who are looking to get something from your chamber, and you have Chamber members who are looking to get something done. And one of the things we talked about is you we often think about the return on investment for members and a lot of members are looking for that return on investment. And if you think about you know a lot of your smaller members, your local retailer or maybe a residential realtor or a copier salesman, they’re looking to find customers and they’re going to measure their return on how many customers? And how much revenue Did you directly produce for them? Like I mentioned for a manufacturer or maybe even a bank or a bigger member of your community, and oftentimes the longer member longer time members of your community, those who are the pillars of the community, as it were, they’re not really looking for that so much the return they’re looking for is, how much can they grow their business, because you have helped foster a climate that is positive to them. I would also say, you know, for those smaller members, there is a direct return as well in in North Carolina, a couple years ago, there was a tax issue related to PPP loans, that local Chambers of Commerce got behind and ultimately saved small business in North Carolina $640 million through their advocacy. Now that 640 million was 5000. Here, 5000. There, but that was it made a big difference to a lot of small chamber members. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 10:57
absolutely. And I think there’s a lot of examples through the pandemic, and the PPP loans and things of that nature, where you can really see the advocacy efforts of chambers really being recognized, especially by those businesses that maybe were more transactional, to begin with, and kind of moves them over to the transformational side of things and understanding the bigger picture of what chambers can do. You didn’t necessarily use those that phrase of transactional, the transformational, but are there other ways that you can see where you can take somebody from a transactional relationship to more than transformational in this kind of a advocacy conversation

Brian Francis 11:36
100%. And in fact, one of the things I would say is you need to talk about that value. I’ve seen this with a lot of chambers we work with they they’ll have a tiered do structure, which I 100% support, and I think it is the direction all the chambers need to go and if they don’t have one already, but when you get to those higher tiers, the value that the Chamber often puts on that piece of paper is we will give you a foursome at our golf tournament, or we will give you a table at our annual meeting. And a lot of times, that’s not necessarily what those larger investors are looking for. What they’re really looking for, is we saved your company money by helping navigate this regulation or changing this local zoning regulation, or, you know, we were at the forefront of this tax policy change that is making a difference of 10s or hundreds of 1000s of dollars for your business. So part of it is changing what you talk about and recognizing the and giving credit to those people because of your investment, we were able to do this advocacy. And because we were able to do this advocacy, you saw this return.

Brandon Burton 12:45
Absolutely, yeah. But just the examples he gave there, I can see where some members may say I’m, I’m really just not a golfer like that doesn’t appeal to me, or I really don’t need to go to another meeting, like as much as I appreciate the prime table at the annual meeting, I don’t really care to go, you know, whereas if they can look to the chamber and say, Man, you guys really helped us tackle this big issue of child care, or workforce or whatever it may be, then they can really see where the needle is moving with their business with the involvement with the chamber. So

Brian Francis 13:18
absolutely, I mean, we I think we forget, sometimes sometimes it can be a hassle to have to try to fill a table. And so you’re actually making your members life more difficult on by trying to give them something that they really aren’t looking for. Right?

Brandon Burton 13:32
So great arguments for being involved with advocacy, what from your experience, and just reasonings that you can see why. What holds the chamber back from getting involved with advocacy.

Brian Francis 13:44
I would say the first thing and I hear this all the time is chamber presidents executive directors and their boards say, we don’t want to get involved in politics. And oftentimes that comes from a bad experience that maybe they had years ago where somebody said the chamber is too political. And so we’re dropping our membership. And one of the things that we emphasize to people, we’re not talking about getting involved in politics, we’re talking about getting involved in policy. And here’s the distinction that I make politics is about people and power. Policy is about laws and regulations. And I will put the caveat out there. There are some chambers out there who get involved in politics, they have PACs, they endorse candidates. And I would say that’s kind of at the end, you talked before about a spectrum that’s at the end of the spectrum. If you’ve never done anything in the political realm or the policy realm before, that’s not where you start. Where you start is identifying the issues that matter to your members and working on those issues, regardless of who supports them. So this isn’t, hey, we’re going to support this ordinance because the mayor asked us to it’s we’re going to support this ordinance because we had a rigorous process to identify what is important to our members. And they’ve told us this is an important issue that needs to be corrected in order for their business to grow.

Brandon Burton 15:03
Absolutely. And I would even say even some of the pushback that they might have gotten in the past, I think getting involved with politics rather than policy is an obvious reason why they might hear some of that pushback, but there’s always going to be somebody who’s not happy with something, and they tend to be the loudest, right? So if you’ve got 1000 members, or 400 members, and you hear that one squeaky wheel, you know, that’s not indicative of what everybody else is thinking. So everybody else is cheering you on, even though they may not be coming to your front door to patch on the back.

Brian Francis 15:37
You know, that’s 100% Correct. And I imagine most of your audience are chamber staff, folks. And that’s one of the things that we talk about. When that squeaky wheel starts to squeak, we think it’s very important for your chamber to have a member driven policy process where you have a committee that’s developing the policies, it’s reviewed by your executive committee, it’s approved by your board. So when that squeaky wheel calls up the director and says, Why did you decide this? The director can say, Whoa, I didn’t decide this, this was decided by our members, by the people who participate, who learned about the issue and identified it as being something important for us to be involved

Brandon Burton 16:15
in. Right, right. And I think for all the staff to be able to understand this is how you respond when when there is opposition. I think that’s very important. So I can understand your chambers may not want to get involved with politics. But to think more on the policy side, I think would hopefully generate some interest for chambers to get involved. Are there other reasons that that you can see why chambers hesitate from getting involved with advocacy? Yeah, so

Brian Francis 16:45
I think once chambers make the decision, they want to get involved in policy. The next step is where do I start? And where do I find the time to do it. So a lot of chamber executives don’t have experience in the policy world. They, they literally don’t know where to start. And then also, you run into this all the time, especially with your smaller chambers. You know, there’s 1000, things that they have going on, you need to get your invoices out, you’ve got business after hours, you have to plan annual meetings coming up. The local school system wants to talk about workforce development, where do you find the time to put together a policy program and and I’ll say, that’s really where we step in. Both from our past experience, I’ve been involved in the political and policy arena for more than 25 years, we kind of have the expertise of how the process works. But then also, from the capacity standpoint, we try to make it easy for our clients in either our consulting or our online program by providing email templates, draft agendas, really all the work that needs to be done behind the scenes we do for them, so that they can just go out and execute on on running the policy program. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 18:00
no, I can see where where the expertise and capacity could be, you know, hurdles to overcome. Maybe starting with with expertise, if you don’t feel like you’re equipped to be able to handle this, what are some solutions or ways to overcome it? I think every chamber needs to be involved on some level on that spectrum with advocacy and policy. But how do you overcome that big hurdle of not having, you know, the not being fully equipped, or you may not feel like you’re equipped enough to handle these these topics? Well,

Brian Francis 18:32
I think the first thing is to accept and feel confident that it’s okay that you don’t understand every issue in the middlee. Elected officials don’t lobbyists don’t There are a lot of niche areas. And so the first thing I would do is say, look for your experts. So if there is an issue that a lot of members are talking about health insurance costs, and you have an insurance agent or representative who’s a member of your chamber, go to them to look for information, go to the local hospital system. If broadband is a a coming issue in your community and and investing there, look to the telecom providers that may be involved. So within your membership, you have a lot of expertise. And one thing you can do is look to your members to help educate you on their areas of of expertise. The second thing I would do and this varies a little bit from state to state, but oftentimes the State Chamber of Commerce can be a great resource. We work in South Carolina quite a bit and the South Carolina chamber does a great job every week of putting out a an email and a social media post that has just three things to know. And oftentimes, those are focused on policy issues that are moving through their legislature. And so you can often kind of repurpose that content and share it back out to your members and establish yourself as an expert just by finding the information for your members that they don’t have time to find.

Brandon Burton 19:57
Yeah, and that that helps with The Capacity stand front too, if you’re able to have a trusted source, like a State Chamber who’s doing a lot of the legwork, they have staff members who are facing, you know, the advocacy issues, and being able to put that out, be involved, like tap into that resource, but then repurpose it, then it shows Hey, we’re tapped into knowing what’s in the know, and what’s important to you. And, and all of that, are there other ways as far as tapping into the capacity issue, that time issue for chambers with getting involved? Or is that the the main thing you’d go to?

Brian Francis 20:34
So I think those are definitely helps. You know, I would say, if you have volunteers who have capacity, this is a great way to plug them in. One of my favorite tricks, so to speak, is to find a former chair of your board, who still wants to be involved. A lot of times, you know, these chairs kind of they they have their chairmanship year, they’ll have their immediate past chair year, and they still want to be involved with the chamber, they’re not sure what to do next. And so getting them involved in chairing a policy committee, you’re drawing on somebody who has a lot of experience and a lot of leadership within your your organization. And so you can rely on them. You know, and I’d say, your drawl from other Chambers of Commerce. You know, a lot of that one of the important things to get started is developing a legislative agenda. And Chambers of Commerce typically will put those on to their websites. So go around to other communities that are of like size to yours in the state are maybe even a little bit bigger, maybe more involved with it and see what they’re talking about. And use that as a jumping off point.

Brandon Burton 21:39
I love that. It’s it’s always good to collaborate good ideas from other chambers. And and the the idea of using a past chair, I think is is crucial, because they’re intimately involved with the the goings on with the chamber. They understand the mission and vision they’ve been highly involved. And to be able to keep them involved in a meaningful way, I think is a great way to utilize a past chair, that’s a great idea.

Brian Francis 22:03
Well, the other thing I would say to with working with other chambers in advocacy, coalition building is really important. And so sometimes people are like, Why do you still want to take what somebody else did, and I can make some arguments, you shouldn’t just do that, because you want your members invested in your policy positions. So I always say use them as ideas, rather than just taking something old cloth from somebody else. But once you say, hey, childcare, and ensuring that we have more childcare workers is an important issue to us, and we want to work on it, you can leverage the other chambers who have said the same thing to work together. And not everybody has to be the leader and carry all the water on each issue. Sometimes simply saying me to our chamber to supports this can really help move something forward. And the other people who have already identified that issue will be happy to have you working with them, and won’t really see it as you’re taking something from them, but rather, you’re adding something to their efforts.

Brandon Burton 23:02
Right. And I think as far as coalition’s go, especially with a regional focus, if you’ve got the chambers within your county or a Tri County area where you’re facing a lot of the similar issues together, it’s one thing from a chamber from another state, there’s still value that can be found there for sure. But you definitely wouldn’t want to copy paste, you know what they’re doing. And then South Carolina if you’re in Tennessee, for example. But if you’ve got other chambers in your county, that you can collaborate together and really build something that’s efficient and meaningful for your members. I agree.

Brian Francis 23:36
And particularly because we’ve really tried to focus our clients on working at the state level, what we have said is at the federal level, it’s just so big. And the process, especially these days is so unwieldy. It’s hard to have influence. And at the local level, a lot of stuff just happens kind of ad hoc, you know, you run into the mayor, and you talk about an issue and it gets resolved. But the state process, it’s it is more of a process. There’s a timeline that needs to be involved. There’s, there’s a lot more work, that move happens to move something through. But chambers really can have a lot of influence. You’re seeing your state reps, hopefully, you’re seeing your state senators, they’re calling on you for advice, and it’s a place where you can really have an impact. Right?

Brandon Burton 24:18
Absolutely, you can make that impact. And I’d like to argue that maybe it does make an impact on the federal level if enough states are doing it and the broader level can see what’s important. But Brian, as we start to wrap things up here, I wanted to ask for the chamber listening who’s interested in taking their chamber up to the next level? What tip or strategy might you offer to them to try to accomplish that goal?

Brian Francis 24:43
So the first thing I would say is have a conversation with your board. You know, this is really I’ve started by saying needs to be a member driven process and that starts with your leader members who are on your board of directors. Talk to them about why you You think advocacy is important, we have on our website or by contacting me, I can send to you a PowerPoint draft presentation that you can literally drop your Chamber’s name into. And it kind of walks through how to have that conversation, a lot of what we talked about today about how to talk to them about being involved in policy, not politics. What you need to do to get started with kind of the steps are that you’ll go through the process, but the very first thing you need to do is have buy in from your board, because this is not an easy thing to do. If it is staff driven, you really need to have that volunteer leadership on board.

Brandon Burton 25:34
Absolutely. So I like asking this question to everyone that I have on the podcast, as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Brian Francis 25:48
So the first thing I would say, obviously, we know we’re a much more global economy. So the the hometown member to member transactions become less and less prevalent, it’s easy to find a website provider who’s across the country across the world. And so I think there is a need for chambers to evolve, and to continue to provide that value. But I would also say, when you look at the political world these days, I would say that we are oftentimes dominated by extreme conversations or folks who are more at the the ideological fringe. And I think there is a need for a common sense, bro business policy advocate in just about every community. And it’s if the chamber is not doing it, we always say if the chamber is not the voice for business, then business has no voice in the community. And so I really think the futures of chambers, if they are going to continue to be relevant, they have to be involved in providing that voice to say, regardless of all the stuff that people are talking about, that elected officials are talking about, here are the things that we really need to do to invest in our community, to invest in our workforce and to promote our businesses so that our economy can continue to thrive.

Brandon Burton 27:07
Right. And I think you hit on the political fringes, I think so much of that we see on the national level, right? Watch news channels and things like that, where you get in the local levels, you get into local policy and and even state policy. And you don’t see quite as you know, dramatic ends of the you know, the those political fringes that the opposite ends of the spectrum, there’s a lot more in the middle. And there’s a lot more that chambers can can stand on as being that same center and being able to bring people together, that I think that that vision you have of chambers, the future, I think is spot on. So thank you for sharing that. I wanted to give you an opportunity, Brian to share any contact information for listeners who may want to reach out and connect with you or ask for the PowerPoint that you mentioned, to be able to have these conversations at their board, what would be the best way for listener to reach out and connect with you?

Brian Francis 28:04
Well, I’d say there’s two great ways. First of all, you can always email me is bfrancis@luminstrat.com, that’s L u m, I n s t r a t, or connect with me on LinkedIn on Brian Francis, from North Carolina, Davidson College, that should give you enough to find me, we try to put out a lot of content that is helpful for chambers of commerce through the LinkedIn. And so that would be a great place as well. That’s

Brandon Burton 28:32
perfect. And we’ll get that in the show notes as well make it easy to find and, and I would encourage everyone to reach out to Brian and ask for that PowerPoint to be able to start these conversations with your board. They will to get ideas of where on that spectrum you want to jump in at and getting involved with policy and advocacy at your chamber. And, and maybe you’re already involved. But let’s see, you know, how can you continue moving that needle. But, Brian, it’s been great having you with us today. I appreciate you taking some time to deal with us here on Chamber Chat Podcast. And I think you’ve pulled back the curtain on a lot of important topics and around policy and chambers getting involved and overcoming you know some of the hurdles that they might see as hurdles, but to see that it is possible to move, move past and move through those obstacles to really get involved in a meaningful way. So I appreciate you being on here and sharing your expertise with us. Well,

Brian Francis 29:29
thank you for having me, Brandon. Maybe I can come back and talk about Thompson sometime.

Brandon Burton 29:33
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Civic Engagement with Candance Brake

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Let’s hear from Becky Womble, President of the Bastrop Chamber to hear about her experience with Community Matters.

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Our guest for this episode is Candance Brake. Candance is the President and CEO of the Greater Owensboro Chamber of Commerce in Kentucky. She has held the CEO position since 2015 and has a career dedicated to Community and Economic Development. She served as a three term city commissioner from 2004 to 2010, serving on conditions that led to the downtown placemaking strategy and the region shift to a knowledge based economic development strategy. Prior to holding public office, she served as executive vice president of the greater Owensboro Chamber of Commerce and Economic Development Corporation and deputy judge slash slash executive for the Davies county fiscal court. She has also served as an adjunct professor in the Department of Government at Western Kentucky University. She served on numerous boards and Ken Ken Commission’s throughout her career. She’s also a member of ACC and the Kentucky Chamber of Commerce executives and the Kentuckians for better transportation. That candidates I’m excited to have you with us today here on chamber chat podcast. I’d love to give you a moment to say hello to all the chamber champions that are out there listening and to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little bit better.

Candance Brake 3:13
Well, thank you so much for having me branded and thanks to Carlos Phillips for passing my name on to you. He’s a rockstar around here. So and hello to all my fellow champ chamber executives. We you know we’re all right now grinding it out. And I’m think we’re all probably dealing with legislative sessions no matter where we live around the country. So it’s it’s such an energizing part of my life to be a part of a group of people who are really pushing our country forward as we push our communities forward sometimes against all the odds. So thanks for having me here today.

Brandon Burton 3:46
Yes, absolutely. Tell us a little bit about the Owensboro Chamber of Commerce. Just to give us an idea of the size of the chamber scope of work, you guys are involved with staff budget, that sort of thing, just to set the yeah for our discussion.

Candance Brake 3:59
So we actually are in the Evansville, MSA to put it in perspective of where we’re located. So we’re close to Illinois, Indiana and content. We’re in Kentucky. So we’re in a tri state area. And we have around 180,000 and RMSA. Ellen’s borough is a town of around 60 in a county of around 120. And our chamber we represent around 1000 members. Our membership goes all the way from health care to nonprofit to churches and mostly predominantly small businesses most chambers are our annual budget is a little over a million dollars. And so we operate small we have a small team of four that serves those 1000 members and we’re always trying to like every other chamber our size, we’re trying to offer more programs and and do more things for our communities because we know that that what we can do even from a programming perspective is going to translate into economic growth for our region. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 4:58
absolutely. Yeah. for staff to service 1000 members, you guys are hustling you guys are you’ve got really good efficiencies and programs in place. So

Candance Brake 5:08
I would say both I would say yes really lucky to have each other to great team.

Brandon Burton 5:14
Very good. Well, I’m excited for our topic today as we dive into that, around the the idea of civic engagement, and I think you have a unique perspective to bring to this topic. And I think across the country, there’s, you know, chamber chamber leaders from all different walks of life, some that are just starting day one today, and others that have had a whole career as a chamber executive. And you know, maybe some feel like they haven’t been given the keys or the permission to get involved civically, so I’m excited to dive into that with you as soon as I get back from this quick break.

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All right, Candance we are back. So as I mentioned before the break, we’re diving into the topic today of civic engagement. So I would like to hear from you. Just to start off, let’s let’s hear from your perspective. What should a chamber be thinking of when it comes to being involved civically in their community?

Candance Brake 7:55
So yeah, I think a lot of that Brandon depends on the size of the community or the chamber is our community. As I said earlier, we’re we’re considered a rural area. But we do have an urban center, we’ve got just a really interesting mix of what we do here economically, but also, you know, with with people who live here, we have a rising M Afghan refugee population, and then several other refugee populations that are coming to our community that we’re very excited about. And we actually have, I believe I’m bragging, but sometimes I can go just a little too far. But I believe we have the highest refugee certification rate in the country. And that’s due to the fact that we have people in our community that are that are working tirelessly to do this. So in that that person who’s in charge of that is actually our chamber executive committee. So we try to have had built a bench that really understands the community engagement piece. People who don’t see big pictures often have a hard time understanding why chambers would need to be involved in civic engagement. You know, but all the the national studies that you’ve seen, show that communities around the country that people are dealing with an ever growing sense of isolation. And isolation is not good for human beings for mental health, but it’s also not good for economies. You know, people need to feel like they’re part of things to be productive citizens. So that’s where we start started. A few years back deliberately, we engaged a data person to look at our civic engagement levels and where they were as compared to around 50 other peer communities around the country. And those peer communities would have been communities without interstates like our community and without for your public universities we have to private colleges in our community, but that public universities we know it was a giant game changer for our community. So we looked at peer communities to see how we stacked up to those with regard to civic engagement. And what we found was we were we were clearly lacking in some some very critical roles. And our board at that point said, Okay, it’s time for us to do something proactive and jumpstart where we are, as a region, or we’re going to fall behind. And that’s when we came together. And we developed a Leadership Institute. And that we started it at the chamber, and we nurtured it over a year long period. And now it is a standalone nonprofit, that it’s a nonpartisan, it’s a think tank, but it’s also a do tank, okay, we’re, we’re they’re really making things happen. But that that organization, which is in our building, but but separate, it’s really, it’s already making some great headway in civic engagement pieces.

Brandon Burton 10:55
That’s fantastic. So I would love to know a little bit more about the Leadership Institute, kind of the purpose and mission behind that kind of the work that’s driven there. But also, as I touched on in the the introduction, those who have been in chamber work long enough, have figured out how hopefully, they figured out how to get a seat at the table, how to be involved civically, but those who are brand new, maybe we can just, you know, work it into the conversation as to where they can feel the ownership and the responsibility to really take charge. You

Candance Brake 11:30
know, and I do think, and this is coming from a female perspective, but I do see, you know, a lot of chamber presidents around the country, this, this disposition is being occupied predominantly more and more by more females, I think. And that’s just anecdotal. But women have a harder time of getting sometimes just taking their seat at the table. That’s what we do. That’s what we need to do. So you know, it’s not a matter of asking for it. It’s just taking it. And, you know, stepping out of our comfort zone, we’re representing the business community, we’re representing nonprofits, and people who want to make things happen. And, you know, to me, anytime I would feel hesitant on getting that seat, I think about this isn’t about me, this is about all the people that I’m representing that write a check to my organization to fund our work. And I have to do this for them. Right.

Brandon Burton 12:22
Yeah. I think that’s a really good perspective to bring that it’s not about you, you gotta get over the uncomfortable kind of situation and just take charge and realize it’s for the people you represent.

Candance Brake 12:33
And that makes it a lot easier to be to push your way in the day when you realize it’s this isn’t about me. This is about, you know, it’s about all those other folks.

Brandon Burton 12:41
It is and as you push a certain agenda to it’s not about you or your political views at all. It’s about representing the business community. So yes, yeah. So tell us a little more about the Leadership Institute, then about what that involves. And kind of the the origins of that and how it’s how it’s become what it is now spun off into its own nonprofit. It

Candance Brake 13:00
was really an origins of, of business community and business leaders around our table and nonprofit execs and higher ed leaders and people that were seeing that we had. We don’t if you don’t know how to say this in a constructive way, but a lack of intergenerational leadership in our community. The majority of our elected officials at that time, it was actually a maybe all of them were white men, Catholic, over the average age, I think was 71. That’s

Brandon Burton 13:35
normal, right?

Candance Brake 13:38
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that’s, you know, that’s, that’s city and county. Okay. That was all of our elected officials. Local. So, you know, it’s it was a matter of of the chamber going, Okay. This is not working for us, you know, we have to bring everyone to the table. Everyone has a unique perspective. And we have to create a city where people want to be if we’re going to compete, and we’re all saying this, and everybody that’s listening to it is shaking their head, because this is what we all deal with every day. But but the Leadership Institute was formed on that knowledge and the foundation that we have to do something we can’t be passive, and wait for someone else to do something. A cultural piece in our community has been really over the last 30 years, is to look to elected officials to lead and to kind of acquiesce, the role of citizen engagement to them. So our leadership institute is it’s more about Grassroots Leadership. It’s involving everyone and teaching people in their role as citizen teaching them how to get power for things that matter to them and that they feel like matters to the community. We have bases on the Kansas leadership Center’s adaptive leadership model And we do adaptive leadership training quarterly for people who have been in other leadership programs in the community that are interested. And that’s been really, really interesting and cool to watch. People, the light bulbs come on in people’s eyes, you know, like, oh, I don’t have to be an elected official, I don’t have to make this change. And we have some really great things happening now because of that.

Brandon Burton 15:23
Yeah. So personally, you took civic engagement to another level, right? You worked at the chamber, and then became an elected official for a time period. And all right back to the chamber. And I understand there in Owensboro, there’s a little bit of a history of, of a chamber staff becoming elected officials. So but I’d love to know what perspective that brings for you, as well, from having the chamber point of view. And then as the elected official, and then bringing it back to the chamber. Yeah.

Candance Brake 15:53
And also with the county, because I was on the county staff to was their administrator for a while. So yeah, I think the local government experience as an elected official, but also as a staff person, it gives it really gives you an inside an inside knowledge on the nuances of how they operate, first of all, you know, but also, you know, it’s kind of there’s no mystery in it kind of takes the veil off. It’s, it’s, you know, it’s representative government, and they’re here to represent us. And, you know, that’s all I don’t know. So that’s, you

Brandon Burton 16:27
know, that’s, that’s good. In that experience, was there talk about chambers of commerce that are trying to get the local chamber involved at different things are very siloed. No, the

Candance Brake 16:40
chamber, the chamber was always, what’s the chamber going to think about this? What’s the chamber gonna say? And then, when we did our we did that massive economic development placemaking strategy piece downtown, the Chamber support for that was critical, because we did write attacks to find it was $150 million in infrastructure improvements, and then 40 million from the federal government’s thanks to Senator McConnell. But but we had to raise those, we had to raise taxes. So the chamber coming to that meeting, when we raised it, and we had a, we had a City Commission chamber full of very angry, very loud, as anyone can imagine. And there was, it was one of the toughest meetings I’ve had, and I’ve had some tough ones. But having the chamber there to stand up and support us, was invaluable. It didn’t slow the den of the The cave people, the citizens against virtually everything. But it did, it did. It did give us the wind, I don’t know, in the courage, you know. So as a chamber president, now I know how important our role is, to those elected officials and to the staff, you know, because sometimes the staff are doing things that the elected officials don’t like, but the chamber wants them to do it. So it, you know, we have an important lobbying role within all the things that happen in the community,

Brandon Burton 18:04
right. And every community is so different on what their needs are and what those hot topics are at the moment. But for, for somebody who may be newer in the position, what would be a good first step to try to maybe level up there or get involved civically? And really? No, it’s about taking the seat, but really making the introductions trying to go to lunch with somebody like what what would you suggest, like tactic wise, to try to get involved?

Candance Brake 18:33
So I think I think the adaptive leadership model is the most important, you know, because your core constituents are going to depend on what issues you know, and if you were moving into a new community, I think that would be one of the more difficult chamber roles to take, because you have to find out, you know, who, where’s the power? And who are the players? Who can you trust that you have to do a lot more listening? than speaking for I would say here, you know, and that’s what I did you have to learn the rollback, but you do have to learn? who’s listening to whom, and, you know, who are the experts in what areas and and who are the, you know, we’re the hidden roadblocks or the hidden. I don’t say enemies, but the people that are going to try to kill projects in progress.

Brandon Burton 19:21
Yeah. So do you find that as a chamber, you’re taking issues to your local governments? Or are you seeing what the local governments do and trying to get behind those things that support local business? Or does it go both ways? How does how’s that relationship?

Candance Brake 19:35
It’s absolutely a mixture. You know, it’s there every day is a different, you know, piece of our partnership, but some days, it’s them coming to us and some days, it’s our going to them. But regardless, it’s that partnership is is very important to all of us here. And it’s the only thing that we can when people stopped talking, we stopped moving forward,

Brandon Burton 19:56
right, right. Now I think that’s so key. You So I always like asking this question. So for listeners who are out there who want to take their chamber up to the next level, what kind of tip or action item, might you suggest that they can maybe try implementing at their own chamber to see some positive results?

Candance Brake 20:17
Well, I think, for smaller chambers, one of the problems is that we don’t have, we don’t have the time to do things that we need to do. And I think one part of what what I did when I got into this position was we had all of these active committees. And I have a different philosophy on that of the committee meetings, because I worked on the echo chamber days where we had small business committee that had to meet once a month, we had to have the programming we had to do, and then staffed for other committees, and all I was doing was staff and committees, and not doing work, or not doing the important work for the community. So we have, we did an essential, basically an inventory on really where we are the chamber, we are a small business committee, I there’s there seems to be, so we eliminated things, and then we shifted to programming. And that has been, that’s been something I think that’s made us very successful. It has helped us engage a different group of people in the community through our programming. And it’s also given us an opportunity to develop some non dues revenue potential. And I mean, we all know that the non dues revenue is very important to our, to our existence.

Brandon Burton 21:32
Yes, no, I think that’s such a key point to touch on and, and really just taking that inventory of, you know, what is it that’s that’s sucking all your time out? Doing

Candance Brake 21:41
this? You know, why are we doing this? And is this really feeding our mission the way it needs to? Right? Yes.

Brandon Burton 21:46
So it’s not only the time, but it’s the energy that gets sucked into, like you were saying these different committees, right. So then when it comes back to that important work of really moving the ball forward, there’s nothing left in the tank. So I think being able to reassess, eliminate, shift those priorities and programming, I think you guys are, that’s, that’s great. A great tip. For listeners to really take inventory and see what they can do.

Candance Brake 22:12
You gotta be brave to do it, because it ruffles feathers. And you have old timers who have had been on the Small Business Committee for 35 years. And you know, that’s that was their thing. So, you know, but you got to find a way to get those people can onboard to. That’s

Brandon Burton 22:25
right. In fact, we just we did an episode a few weeks ago about overcoming the vocal minority. So if you miss sang, go back and listen to that, like

Candance Brake 22:34
we can do. I think we need to know a lot about that. That’s right.

Brandon Burton 22:38
Absolutely. So I like asking everybody, as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Candance Brake 22:49
Well, I think as our local communities across the country become more nationalized in our politics, I think chambers are going to be more and more important than ever, we have, we have an existential piece, particularly in in areas like islands burrow, where we have lost corporate headquarters, and those corporate headquarters, when they move to other communities around the country, they lose that loyalty that they would have to their local chambers. You know, Walmart was thinking that they’re not members. But we do, you know, everything that we do helps Walmart, and but you look at so many different companies that have taken chambers off of their radar screens. And in essence, what they’re doing is making money in a community. And throughout, then they’ll give some money to a non charity, and then think that checks their block when the chamber is doing the heavy lifting for the charity as well. So we have to figure out how to articulate to those those corporations, why we are important, and get people to understand that and care about it. So I think that’s going to be a real challenge. But the scary part is there’s that big challenge there. But there’s also the vacuum that we have to fill with the leadership piece. And you look around the country, and I look at my colleagues and the great work they’re doing. And and I believe more than ever, you know, and I, I believe that chamber chambers of commerce, can can make our country better I really do. Because they don’t care what party you’re in. They don’t care what your private agendas are. We’re just trying to move the community forward. We’re to me with a great example of, of really how, how our country can work, you know better.

Brandon Burton 24:41
Yeah, no, and I think you hit on something there with really getting that that messaging down to these big corporations that are more national national chains because they do they look at the bottom line and what’s going to make the most profit and then they’ll give something back to the community but it’s not. It’s not hitting where it counts the most. Yeah, it’s for show. It is it is. It’s for show. And I’ve seen that and seen the messaging that these big corporations put out about, essentially just that it’s about the bottom line. Yeah, yeah. So if if anybody hits on something that works well, there, you know, please share it with us. I’ll have you on the podcast, and we’ll talk all about it. Yeah. Both candidates for for anyone listening who would like to reach out and connect with you or learn a little bit more about how you guys approach your civic engagement there in Owensboro, what would be the best way for them to reach out and connect with you?

Candance Brake 25:38
My email, which is cbrake@owensboro.com. That’s love to hear from from colleagues from around the country. Yeah, energizing and empowering because we are really all going through. And I will say one more thing that I would give to a younger or a new person in the chamber world is find another chamber executive, somewhere that’s leading that’s similar to your organization that you can call, and you might be calling to cuss about the the mayor, or you might be calling to cry because your board chair, you know, did something, you know, but But it’s having that person that you can trust. And that really understands, because, as we all know, nobody understands like how insane this world is, until they’ve been in it and the complexities and the balancing act and everything we do every day. There’s just there’s not a lot of folks that understand it. Yeah. So when we talk to chamber time, because chamber time here, you know, one week is actually about two years, it feels like right, I mean, yeah,

Brandon Burton 26:42
so now it’s true. And I think that’s such a great piece of advice. And I would even add to it that as you look to the other chamber executive, the other chamber professional to connect with and have your chamber time. Look at where you are professionally and look at someone who’s maybe a step or two ahead of you, however you determine that. But there’s some real icons in the chamber world. It may seem unattainable to get to where they’re at, if you try to connect with them right away, but look at somebody who’s a step or two ahead of you. That’s doable. You can you can get there and you can look to the adding more people to your chamber time,

Candance Brake 27:21
we all know and we all know Brandon and I know you feel the same way we all know that, that it’s feels makes us feel just as good to be that person that’s called the younger and the more aspiring and makes we could just as much as all of it, you know, as we do when we call the person that’s two years or two things at the wrong from us. It’s yeah, it takes all of us

Brandon Burton 27:40
you get all those reminders of when you were in that position a few years before and like, oh, yeah, that’s why we do this now. Right?

Candance Brake 27:47
And also, you know, it always works out.

Brandon Burton 27:49
That’s right. That’s right. Well, I will get your email in our show notes for this episode. So anyone can look you up there and connect with you. But I really appreciate you setting aside some time today amid your busy chamber schedule to view with us and offer your experience and insights especially on this important topic of civic engagement. So thank you for being with us today.

Candance Brake 28:12
Thank you so much for inviting me and thanks to everyone else for all the great work you’re doing.

Brandon Burton 28:17
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Mergers, Acquisitions, & Affiliations with Arthur Havlicek

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

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Our guest for this episode is Arthur Havlicek. Arthur is the President and CEO of the Southwest Michigan Regional Chamber of Commerce and native of the region himself. Arthur grew up in Bridgman and graduated from Lake Michigan Catholic High School in St. Joseph. He earned his degree in political science and public administration from Grand Valley State University in Grand Rapids, during which time he also began managing and winning political campaigns. After college, Arthur served as staff in the Michigan House of Representatives where he was involved with numerous significant legislative achievements. With nearly a decade in public service experience by the age of 27. Arthur decided to return home. He assumed his current position as president and CEO of the chamber in January of 2020, and has quickly become a recognized leader in both his industry and his community. Arthur currently serves as board member at the Michigan Chamber of Commerce, the Michigan Association of chamber professionals, other local organizations and as executive director of a local community and economic development organization called the Bridgman area Chamber and growth Alliance. He’s also a 2023, graduate of the prestigious business leads fellowship program through the US Chamber of Commerce Foundation. And Arthur, I’m excited to have you with us today here on chamber chat podcast. I’d love to just give you a moment to say hello to all the chamber champions that are out there listening and to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little

Arthur Havlicek 3:31
better. Well, sure. Thanks, Brandon. Thank you, first of all, for having me. I’ve I’ve listened to many of your podcasts with chamber professionals over the last four or five years as I’ve tried to look for advice and counsel on how to take our chamber to the next level. So hopefully I can pass along. Some tidbits to the next generation of folks hear something interesting about me is always a tough question to answer, I think but a development in the last four months was the birth of my daughter Nora. So it’s my wife and I’s first child born on September 12, and you know what a what a paradigm shift in anyone’s life. Having that first first kid and the love that you experience and the smiles that you get that just melt you and you know, being her dad as has quickly become my absolute favorite thing about life. And watching my wife grow into a beautiful mother and it’s been in the last four months have been incredibly rewarding. So I’d say that is that’s what’s top of mind right now,

Brandon Burton 4:47
as it should be. That is awesome. Congratulations to you and your wife. That’s cute. That is something exciting and goes quick. My oldest just turned 18 So it goes In a blink of an eye, and before you know it just cherish her.

Arthur Havlicek 5:06
I can’t even imagine her with teeth. And so thinking about her at 18 is

Brandon Burton 5:11
let alone an attitude, right? Yeah, wait for it. Tell us a little bit about the Southwest Michigan Regional Chamber. Just give us some context, the size of the chamber scope of work, you’re involved with staff budget, that sort of thing to kind of set the table for our discussion.

Arthur Havlicek 5:30
Sure. So we are a lean and mean organization. We are a Tri County Regional Chamber of Commerce in southwest Michigan serving Burien, Cass and Van Buren counties. We are a 501 C six, which many chambers most chambers are, I believe, and we have about 700 members spread geographically throughout the region. And in multiple states, which is easier for us to say considering we are right on the border of Indiana and often have to compete with Indiana for for business development. We have three full time people on staff, we are on the precipice of hiring a fourth person with some restructuring that we’ve been able to do. And our budget is really only around I’d say 400,000. So you know, that is something that we have taken a look at. And it’s a byproduct, I think of what I would consider the old chamber membership model. And we are trying to shift to a new organizational structure that allows us to fundraise for more impact, hire more staff, have more capacity, do more programming and better serve our businesses so we can talk about what that looks like. I believe that is that direction is the future of chambers. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 6:53
sounds like you’re on the precipice of some really exciting things and some big changes there at the chamber. So the topic that we settled on today I know there’s been a lot of interest in chamber world around this so I’m excited to get your perspective on it but around mergers and acquisitions and and bringing in affiliations you know, with with other chambers possibly so we’ll we’ll dive in much deeper on this conversation and your experience on it as soon as they get back from this quick break.

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All right, Arthur, we’re back. I would love to know just from the time you joined or came on board at the Southwest Michigan Regional Chamber. January 2020. There’s some things happening around that time right now, yeah. You can say that the applecart was being kind of tipped over business wise, you know, for for local businesses, small businesses, big businesses just in general, but Chambers as well. So through the pandemic, we saw, you know, some reorganizations with within the chamber world. And I’d love to maybe just get the background and history there locally. like for you guys, what did that experience look like and how things evolved since you came on board in January 2020?

Arthur Havlicek 10:06
Sure, so I get asked this all the time, basically having enough time to find the bathrooms before our entire world changed. And, you know, everyone’s first reaction is, is what terrible timing. I mean, that couldn’t be worse timing. And I genuinely believe the opposite. Actually, I was able to step in, in my role, find the bathrooms made a lot of the key community leaders that I would have to interface with and work intimately with over the, you know, the coming months, and years. And what I always say is, I didn’t have time to get into the chamber box. So we had no problem thinking outside of it, frankly, we were able to act very quickly, very boldly, which were two, I guess, crisis management principles that we actually intentionally adopted during that time. And we tried to innovate and do new things. And while you know, a lot of a lot of organizations, a lot of businesses were rightfully saying, I just don’t know what to do next, we were viewed very much as a leader, and a Pace Setter, and, and we’re able to rally the community around various causes and, and really just energize them. And then my background, in in Lansing, allowed me to read the tea leaves a little better than most, I think, and be able to predict what restrictions were coming next, or make phone calls and clarify what those restrictions included in Michigan, as you may know, is one of the more stringent or someone even say draconian in their handling of the pandemic. So we had businesses shut down for well over a year, entire industries. And again, being on the border, we felt that more deeply, because all of our consumers just drove 20 minutes to Indiana where everything was open. So we were I think it was our level of activity and how vocal we were saying, being pro business and pro public health are not mutually exclusive. There’s a way that we can do this and keep customers safe employees safe, keep our community safe, and keep commerce moving. And I think that the community responded to that. I think they respected that. And frankly, I think that that’s our role as Chambers of Commerce. That’s part of what we were formed to do. And we shouldn’t shy away from those conversations.

Brandon Burton 12:51
Right. So when you were given a little bit of background about your chamber, you had mentioned you guys are a Tri County Chamber. How long have you guys been at Tri County Chamber? And how did that come to be? Great

Arthur Havlicek 13:06
question. So our chamber has gone through multiple evolutions, I guess, this 2024 is actually our 70th anniversary. We started as the Twin Cities area Chamber of Commerce, and that would be in 1954. If the math is correct, and then operated like that became one of the largest chambers in the state, actually, at the time around the 1970s. With something over 1200 Members, I think, very, very impressive. And then is community started to move towards more economic development organizations and economic development focus. We merged with a community development corporation to form another organization and economic development organization. And our chamber sort of went away for a couple of years until the community raised their hand and said, We’d like them back. So then it came back as the cornerstone Chamber of Commerce serving its historical footprint of Northern Burien County. And it wasn’t until we affiliated with a another local chamber in my hometown of Bridgman that that decision was made. You know, looking around the country at some trends for towards regionalism, why don’t we regionalize we’re the largest chamber in the region already. This affiliation with a community, you know, miles away from our historical footprint is is a perfect opportunity. And so we rebranded from the cornerstone Chamber of Commerce to the southwest Michigan Regional Chamber of Commerce, and that would have been, I believe, in late, it was about 2018 2019. So really right before I I got here and just because of the leadership transition. You know, I don’t think that a lot of a lot of that leaving that regional mission had been able to be completed yet just pure sake of timing. And so that was something that I immediately put my foot on the gas, and said, If we’re talking about serving a broader territory, we need to figure out the best way to do that with a small team, we can’t be everywhere. And, and I think that we’ve been able to do that authentically, since my hire, we have absorbed actually two chambers. And that would be the Lakeshore Chamber of Commerce in a town called Stevensville. And then, the Baroda area business association in a small town called Baroda. Neither of those were, you know, we didn’t want to see them go, which is a point that I want to make very clear. We went through a whole process, which I can talk about later, where we were like, What can we do to prop you up but with, you know, just less engagement, from a volunteer perspective in which we see in every community across the country, it’s getting harder to sustain these entities, these all volunteer entities. And so they’ll look to organizations like ours that have the resources and the staff and say, Hey, can we just hand you the keys and trust you to do a good job, and you have to build trust to do that, but that’s what we’ve done. So I think our organization has, in its entire history, absorbed three chambers outright, and has affiliated with one being the Bridgman chamber and growth Alliance, which we’re, we’re going through changes. They’re exciting changes. Yeah.

Brandon Burton 16:55
Now, so that’s it is fascinating. And I, I think that’s important, you had said that you didn’t want to see these chambers or business associations Go Go away. Which is, I think, part of the reason why you guys stepped in to help help make that continue, you know, helped create a bridge, I guess, to continue on with the work that they’ve been doing there. But why don’t you touch a little bit more on that, that the approach with how you didn’t want to see them go, but also supporting them during that transition period?

Arthur Havlicek 17:27
Sure. So. So again, I think both in both of those cases, I mean, they had membership anywhere between 50 to 100, maybe a few more members. And so, you know, in that regard, they were, they were doing well, but it changed over on those volunteer boards, and some of the loss of some of that institutional memory and the burden of having these, typically business leaders spend that amount of time trying to breathe life into an all volunteer organization, in both cases, just became too much. So from the very first conversations we had with them, you know, my my stance was shutting down, you know, these entities should be always the last resort, in my opinion. And I think I, because I genuinely believe identity is important in, in our work in our industry, identity is a crucial component to, you know, promoting your area, but also to businesses wanting to invest in a specific organization. Were a good example of this. The Southwest Michigan Regional Chamber sounds like a massive, somewhat nebulous, right organization that I’m sure there are other businesses that are feeding into that I’d rather feed into my hometown chamber. Well, you know, you lose that hometown identity. And you might lose that business from understanding why it’s important to invest in a chamber in the first place. So I tried to flip it the model on its head and say, How can we prop up and help these community chambers so that businesses, you know, want to invest? They have that community pride in it, and then we can be the backend for it. So what we did not try to keep the answer short was, we had multiple, multiple, multiple conversations with their board of directors, in some cases, taking over a year to talk everything through. I had crafted decision documents that basically were, you know, all the decisions that would have to be made if we, you know, if we affiliate if we merge if we dissolve and, and all the things that would have to be thought through. And simply we we just work through it. And then in both of these cases that I’m referencing, You know, they really came to the conclusion, look, we have faith in you. We really just want to know that that our businesses aren’t being, you know, left hanging, it’s our way to close the loop. But, you know, we think you’ll do a good job. And so they made the decision to bold entirely and then come into us. And what we’ve tried to do is absorb not just those members, but those. Those board, that board of directors, we’ve tried to take them and say, Okay, is there a place on our board for you? Is there a place on our ambassador committee for you? And so that way, we still have their participation and engagement, but without the level of, of, I guess, commitment that they had to before that was becoming untenable? Yeah.

Brandon Burton 20:48
So you touched on some big things there. And one of the things that I was going to circle back to this identity in that sense of community. I’ve seen this. So in my, my background working with chambers is it’s been chamber publishing that I do so well, oftentimes, we’re working with chambers who have that very defined identity right there, the ABC, City Chamber, right, whatever their their town is. And once you get into a regional or multi County, it, it can kind of lose that sense of that community feel, especially with, as I say, with publications, right? It’s like, you want to highlight the things that community offers, and what’s your scope if you’re covering such a large area. So I like that you guys are being intentional with especially bringing their board members and ambassadors and trying to create space for them within your organization to keep that tie to those communities. But how do you try to enforce that, that sense of identity, that sense of feel, on the local level, I think that’s a that that’s a hard area to navigate. And hopefully, you guys are doing it in more of a successful way than some other chambers might have approach? Well, so.

Arthur Havlicek 22:11
So it is extremely difficult, especially when you’re covering a large territory with very few staff. So but but to be intentional in the communications you’re putting out to be intentional on if you have an event, make sure that you’re inviting, you know, that communities, core people, the identity thing. Chambers of Commerce, in my opinion, are legacy institutions in most of the communities that they exist in. Much like the public school system is in any of those communities. And, you know, the bad C word. And all of this is going to be consolidation. And there’s always fear of that, because I don’t want to lose my mascot. I don’t want to be that mascot, right. So you don’t want your schools to merge, even though that’s probably what’s best for the kids. It’s really no different in the chamber world. So finding a way to keep that identity and you know, celebrate the history and the legacy because you know that that chamber has accomplished a lot over its tenure. It’s it’s no small task. With the Bridgman chamber and growth Alliance, the the one that we affiliated, the organization we affiliated with, back in 2018, that that sparked our name change. I want to walk through that because I think it’s a good case study for you know, maybe what, what not to do, and then maybe what to do, and, and so when it was originally constructed, and I’m oversimplifying, but essentially, the CGA and its board remained in place remained its own organization of 501 C, three, completely independent, and we came in and became the service provider for all of those members. So those members started paying dues directly to us. So I’m abridgement business, I’m cutting a check to the southwest Michigan Regional Chamber of Commerce. There’s a variety of reasons that I think my predecessors structured it that way, you know, probably, you know, for no other reason other than we had the the CRM and chambermaster to, to be able to handle all of that and the staff to do the dues and collections. But from what I’ve observed over the now, you know, four years of sitting in this role is that’s a community that is immensely proud of its name. And I believe, you know, we believe so strongly in that identity piece. Over the last several months, we have actually been working to restore the members to that local chamber and serve more as the back end for it and allow it to operate and thrive hopefully as the Bridgman CGA once again, which is, I would like to think a prayer The radical step once you, once you fight and grab these members, most people will do anything to hold on to them. And I’m saying I think what’s best is to, you know, allow them to invest in their community chamber directly have that money, stay there be governed locally, which is also important. And then we will have agreements with that chamber to be the back end to hire the staff person that I referenced, the fourth person that will be coming on shortly. And and just since we’ve announced these changes, it has opened up multiple possibilities with businesses, with the municipalities themselves, the city and the township down there. So, you know, with all chambers being different, or communities being different, there’s no one right answer, you just have to figure out what works for that community. And sometimes, it takes a year of negotiations, sometimes it takes four years of affiliation, before you figure out exactly how it’s going to work. But if you’re authentic and you build trust, you’ll be given that leeway and hopefully end up in the right place.

Brandon Burton 26:10
So with these more recent, you know, opportunities, we’ll say, or experiences of absorbing these other organizations, it sounds like most of them were volunteered led, is that what I understand? So if you can, do you mind talking a little bit about the negotiations with that? Do they approach you did the chamber your chamber, approach them and say, we can help? Or how did these conversations begin and evolve? Yeah,

Arthur Havlicek 26:42
so in, in every one of these situations, the local chamber, so to speak, approached us. And, you know, and I think that probably happened, because we do our best to be good neighbors in the chamber space, I don’t view I view competition as being outside of the region that we’re in, not within it, right. And if we can work together to compete, we’re all going to win. And plus, I think if you are a business that believes in the value of one chamber, you’re helping all chambers, because then you’re you’re one more business that believes in the work that we do. So. You know, I think that we had some trust built to begin with, and we tried to be very collaborative with these organizations. And they were very collaborative, you know, back. But in every scenario, they approached us saying, Look, we’re at a crossroads, we can either try to hire, which we may not have, you know, the dollars to do. We made dissolve, we could fold into you. And we’re basically just saying, hey, look, we need help. And we take I mean, we took each of those conversations as seriously as we could, because that’s, that’s no small thing to say, Hey, we are we may need to wind down this organization. And the other thing, I guess, for our area, specifically, and probably many areas, across the country is our region is has a declining population and an aging population and so demographically, we’re moving in a direction where there are going to be fewer people with the capacity to serve in these volunteer roles. And so the, I guess, we use the term sprawl when we’re talking about, you know, economic development, the organizational sprawl, so to speak, you know, peaked when our population peaked. And as our population has declined, fewer people have been tasked with propping up, you know, not only infrastructure, but in organizations. And so we’re going to see a natural attrition, I think, and our stance is, well, we want to be able to help those that want to stay in existence and, and even help those that don’t. And so that’s what we’ve been doing. There’s no secret sauce. It’s just like, I keep saying the word authenticity, because it’s the I think the number one thing and it’s the thing that you can’t fake definitional but that’s what ultimately allows you to come in and serve these other areas. And if you have you you lead with that authenticity and you try to keep that identity you’re you’re halfway there.

Brandon Burton 29:32
Yeah. So in what you’re sharing through this experience, it sounds maybe a little different than what it would be looked like maybe to acquire another business right? I mean, looking at the the p&l and the financial statements and saying how profitable I get the the negotiations are going to be a different thing because it’s not like you’re saying, hey, we want to bring on you know, more work for maybe a little right Turn. But at the same time you want to support that, like you said, there’s no competition within the region, right? As long as you can build up the region, then you all win. So imagine are there other points and then negotiation would look different than like, looking to acquire a business?

Arthur Havlicek 30:17
Well, so I’m actually glad you made that point. And forgive me for not mentioning it sooner, they’re much like any business acquisition, there was an extensive due diligence process on our end to make sure that we wouldn’t be inheriting any, you know, debt or liabilities, obligations. And, and it required a deep dive into Financials, not not necessarily to see how profitable being in the nonprofit space, it wasn’t about how profitable these institutions were, but just making sure that we weren’t absorbing something that was underwater or had, you know, back taxes, you name it. So, you know, I’ll stress that that due diligence does have to occur, and it has to be done, just like you would in the in the private sector. With that, that level of care, that duty of care. But, you know, being in the nonprofit space, where profit is less important, you need enough dollars to be able to serve your your members effectively. It, it was a I would say a softer, right? There’s the hard skills and the soft skills it was it was the softer of the two that we lead with, because it was really about the end product and the work more than, than the dollars and, and that’s also a byproduct of us not being the initiator, that’s them coming to us and us just saying, How can we? How can we figure out how to make this work in a way that’s not going to put my organization at risk, which I was upfront about with all of them. And they all understood and hopefully appreciated some of the professionalism that that demonstrated that we’re we weren’t just Yes, we’ll take your members it was, let’s go through a process. And think about this. You take a peek at our finances, we take a peek at yours, we make sure everything is actually going to work. So that’s really how we went about it. So yeah, thank you for bringing that up. I should have mentioned. Yeah, that are an important part a lot sooner.

Brandon Burton 32:25
Yeah. No, I appreciate you touching on that. And as these negotiations went about, was it with the staff or the volunteer staff or with the boards? How,

Arthur Havlicek 32:37
how did the communications go? It was it was typically the executive committee of the board. And, and whatever chairperson or and or president that they had the there were no staff in any of these scenarios, which I think was one of the catalytic reasons that they approached us in the first place. Because they saw us as having that capacity to serve their members better and true to chamber forum. We’re trying to do what’s right by your members, even if it means, you know, saying goodbye to your own brand. That’s, that’s a level of integrity that I don’t think we see often. So. Yeah, it was it was the executive committees and the chairs, specifically that much of the negotiations occurred with.

Brandon Burton 33:24
Yeah, so if we can, I know, we’re getting a little short on time. But I wanted to touch a little bit more on the affiliation part, the aspect, because I don’t know, I think there may be some chambers out there that might shy away from doing affiliations with other chambers, because they feel like they might lose out on some revenue. So you had mentioned that there’s not competition within the region. I love that that point of view. But how would you suggest a chamber approach affiliations with neighboring chambers or chambers that can be supportive of one community? The other? Yeah,

Arthur Havlicek 34:04
so again, scenarios are going to be very different. I mean, in this in our scenario, we were a much larger entity affiliating with a much smaller entity, that dynamic is going to be different than if two chambers of equal size were trying to figure out how they could merge. And we’ve seen We’ve seen that happen quite a bit and just you know, you take the two community names and put them together. But in in, in our case, that affiliation agreement that we struck, when we signed a legal document, basically stipulating you know, the members would come our way and exchange services would go that way. And it talked about some of the finances and put sunsets and there was there was a phase in for the businesses because our dues structures differed. We were slightly more expensive, but but enough to might be a sticker shock. Docker would have, you know, prevented folks from making that transition. So, you know, I what I want to focus on is, is I guess how we’re going to do it, as opposed to how it was initially done because I think where we’re headed is a much more sustainable model. And, and what we’re doing is we, we worked with the city of Bridgman, in this case and Lake charter Township, which is the township surrounding the city to invest in a in a paid staff person that we ended up actually hiring but those dollars go to the CGA. The CGA, then through a management service agreement compensates us for hiring that individual. We supervise that individual on a day to day basis, but the CGA board actually sets the vision and the duties and responsibilities. And then the CGA board has seats specifically dedicated to each of those municipalities. So there’s all these layers of local control, local governance, and local identity. And like I said, we’re restoring members back to that organization. So that’s our good faith effort saying you’re pitching in, you’re pitching in, we’re taking the business investment pitching in. And then you know, for us, we know that that money is, I guess, coming back to us to be able to pay for that staff. But we’re really a pass through. And really, it’s our benefits, these Bridgman businesses are getting to chamber memberships for the price of one. And they’re able to utilize all of our benefits all of our infrastructure. And and and you know that that reduction in duplication is huge, it allows the dollars to go a lot further. And we’re thrilled to have boots on the ground down there, again, just focus solely on that community, because it’s a community with a tremendous amount of potential. So, you know, it’s, there’s just a ton of, and I guess, you know, just like the private sector, we went about it really, professionally to figure out if the finances would work, what the management service agreements would look like. There’s agreements between each individual municipality and the CGA and then the CGA with our organization, and then between us and the person we hire in so it’s, it’s, it’s complicated, but completely doable. Yeah.

Brandon Burton 37:32
Now, I appreciate you touching on that, because I think and obviously, everyone needs to take their their unique approach to it with every chamber and every community looking a little different. But that helps to give some perspective for chambers and maybe kind of kicking around the idea of affiliations. As we start to wrap up, I wanted to ask for chambers that are listening who are looking to take their organization up to the next level, what kind of tips or action item might you suggest for them to try to implement back at their organization?

Arthur Havlicek 38:05
Well, I’ve got a couple if you don’t mind. I use the word authenticity quite a bit. So I will lead again with that you, if you were being authentic, you’re paving a much easier path for everything that you try to undertake. The second thing I’ll say is that I know that all chambers are, are very different, they serve different purposes, different functions. And it might be my background speaking, but I do think that advocacy was a I mean, it’s it is a primary reason why chambers exist. And you know, I It’s an intimidating arena to get into, but there’s a way to do it again authentically, where, where you’re not going to rock the boat, necessarily, but you’re still taking a stand for your members. And the analogy I use here all the time is just about every community has like a humane society, right? Taking care of, of animals, and no one is going to them and asking them why they’re so pro pet. So why would I entertain anyone coming to me and saying, Gosh, why are you so pro business? Well, that’s what I engineered. That’s my job. And when I put it like that, I usually am able to, you know, calm down, whoever is getting a little fired up about the positions I’m taking and just saying it is my job to stand in the gap for these members. You are entitled to disagree with it. And I’m going to serve you anyway. It’s all about the ecosystem. But the larger point the third thing I want to mention is we need to be unafraid to take risks. We need to be bold. There’s the out with a Out with the old in with the bold saying, I think that we as an industry need to be bold. Old in identifying the gaps in our communities and moving unapologetically to fill them. We have tried to do that in multiple different scenarios. And it’s been successful, it’s been scary, but successful. And so like the businesses we serve, you have to take risks in order to advance. And I think part of that risk is also re envisioning what your structure looks like. So the second part to part three of what I’m saying here is, it goes back to something I said all the way at the beginning of the call, which is we’re looking at our structure, which was primarily dues and event revenue, non dues revenue based, you’re you’re very limited in the amount of dollars that you’re able to raise in that way. And, you know, every time you onboard a new member, that’s a new set of responsibilities. And by the time you get enough to hire someone at a at a living, livable wage, you’re behind the eight ball again. So like, most chambers, now, we are moving in the direction of forming a Southwest Michigan Regional Chamber Foundation, a 501 c three arm that will be a subsidiary of ours, and allow us to again, fundraise for impact, increase our capacity and improve the quality of services that we provide to our businesses. And and that’s going to be a paradigm shift for us. First time in 70 years, although being our 70th anniversary, I’ve been going back and looking at our, our, our old newsletters, and in 1968. Our organization’s leadership identified foundations as the future for chambers all the way back in 1968, which blew my mind. But for one reason or another, they never acted on it. Like I said, we the society went the route of economic development organizations instead. So we’re making good on that. This year will be by the time this airs will have announced our foundation and, and it’s going to be home to our leadership programming, some business development, programming and some community development work that we intend to do. And it’s just it’s an exciting change. And I think it’s going to be transformational, not only for our organization, but for it. And it is a bold change. And again, we won’t, we won’t thrive, I think unless we do that our area won’t Thrive unless we do that. And so while we’ve been operating the old way, for 70 years, we’re going to now operate the bold way, and I couldn’t be more excited about it.

Brandon Burton 42:39
Yes, I love that. And I’m going to put a plug in here for anyone who hasn’t read or shoes versus chess by Dave Atkinson. Read it, it has a great section all about foundations and why that’s the future of chambers going forward. But that rolls right into the next question about how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward? I think you just touched on it.

Arthur Havlicek 43:05
I think that chambers have a unique opportunity with the, with the dynamics that all of our communities are facing guarantee just about anyone listening to this call is probably struggling with affordable housing or childcare or they want more trails, and better schools, and all of these things that are more difficult to solve more interconnected than ever. And there is no organization in any community, in my opinion, better situated to solve these problems than a chamber of commerce, because we’re the connective tissue between the public private and nonprofit sector. And it’s not necessarily the chamber that has to do it all we have to bring the folks together, you know, through our ability to convene, to solve and tackle these major problems. And the other thing I’ll say is, you know, our situation where we’re situated, being the largest business advocacy organization in each of our communities, presumably, that that connection to the private sector, I think that we don’t put enough stock or credit into it. Because if you think about it, and this is a major, I guess, soapbox that I like to get on. The private sector, generally either solves the problems in our community through innovation, or they generate the capital for the nonprofit sector or the government to solve those problems. Either way, it starts with the private sector, and us with our relationships, our inherent closeness to those businesses, makes us again, the best organization and each of our communities to take a leadership role and tackle these big issues simply by getting the right people around the table. And, again, that might be an intimidating thing for a lot of chambers, especially, you know, those that are again short staffed, or we have a lot of turnover in our industry. And they might not feel like they have that they’ve earned the street cred in their community, as an individual. If if you’re part of a chamber of commerce, you have that air cover, you have that responsibility. You can make big things happen. And you need to again, move unapologetically in the direction that solves the need for your members and your members. Those businesses who take risks all the time will see you do that will appreciate it and will invest in you to help you be successful. I

Brandon Burton 45:43
love that that really exemplifies the power that Chambers of Commerce hold that everything starts with the private sector. So thank you for for pounding on that a little bit. And getting on your soapbox is well worth it. My pleasure. Well, before I let you go, I wanted to give you a chance to share any contact information for listeners who might want to reach out and connect and learn more about how you guys have gone about these mergers and acquisitions and and affiliations, what would be the best way for a listener to reach out and connect? Sure, so

Arthur Havlicek 46:15
you can visit our website at www.SMRChamber.com and in fact, if you’re listening to this podcast, I’d Can I encourage you to visit our website because you will see a toggle in the lower right hand corner for our affiliate the Bridgman CGA, which was a way to even link the websites together in a in a very usable fashion. And again, keeping their identity front and center. So visit our website SMRchamber.com, you’ll find our contact information plastered all over there. You can feel free to email (ahavlicek@smrchamber.com) or call don’t hesitate to reach out we’d love to share what we know or or even brainstorm because there’s no right way to do any of this. It’s it’s kind of feeling your way through it. And we’re happy to be that sounding board at the very least. or explain you know, what we ran into and what issues could be avoided or successes could be achieved. That’s

Brandon Burton 47:16
awesome. I do appreciate that. We’ll we’ll get that in our show notes for this episode too. So listeners can look it up there and connect with you but really appreciate you spending time with us today here on chamber chat podcast sharing your experiences and and perspective in what can be difficult conversations difficult transitions from one organization to another but also keeping a focus on that identity and that sense of community all along the way. So thank you for for being with us and sharing these things with us today.

Arthur Havlicek 47:50
Thank you, Brandon.

Brandon Burton 47:51
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Rapid Growth After Pandemic with Christine Cribb

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Let’s hear from Becky Womble, President of the Bastrop Chamber to hear about her experience with Community Matters.

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Our guest for this episode is Christine Cribb. Christine has been at the helm as the President and CEO of the Cleveland County Chamber in North Carolina for the past two and a half years. With an infectious energy a hunger for smart growth and a passion for helping businesses thrive. Christine has now left her mark on two chambers. Christine’s impressive track record and chamber world speaks volumes about her dedication and expertise. In her previous role she led the largest chamber per capita in the state of Washington, and accomplishment that exemplifies her talent for driving success. The chamber team not only grew the chamber, led and represented the business community but the Oak Harbor Chamber Fourth of July festival was voted number seven in the country by USA Today’s readers poll. In 2019. Christine was voted Community Leader of the Year by her peers solidifying her reputation as an exceptional leader. After spending most of the pandemic in Italy, Christine returned to the States to continue the work she loves. Chamber world took her to Cleveland County Chamber of Commerce where she conducted a listening tour and has since become a unstoppable force of innovation and growth. Her contagious enthusiasm or it has propelled the Cleveland County Chamber to new heights introducing over 15 New trailblazing chamber events and programs that have invigorated the business community all over the county and beyond. Her leadership has grown the chamber Upon her arrival at 325 members in July of 2021 to 619 members today. So Christine, I’m thrilled to have you with us today on chamber chat podcast. And I’d love for you to take a moment to say hello to all the chamber champions that are out there listening and to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better.

Christine Cribb 3:51
Well, thank you so much. Thank you, Brandon for having me today. Team, your chamber champions, I so much admire and respect what you do every single day you bounce so many hats. And it’s just a profession that has so much pride and joy. And very few people know what’s going on behind the scenes at or on on any given day. So I just I love this world and love being part of it. I think most interesting thing about me, of course, I’m a new grandmother. So to me, being a brand new grandmother is for the first time is just a pure joy with my family on a personal level. I will share that when I went to Italy. I left for Italy in January 2020. And the pandemic hit that February and I was in Italy for a year, which was about the best adult timeout you could imagine. And being from Can you imagine being from chamber world. Please don’t anyone feel sorry for me in any way because I do Drink a lot of wine. And I learned how to cook Italian. And when the airport’s opened back up, I knew that I needed to go back doing the work I love to do. And I did a nationwide search to return to chamber world to make a difference for businesses. Very

Unknown Speaker 5:15
good. My

Christine Cribb 5:16
little gold. Yeah.

Brandon Burton 5:18
So I figured there was more of a story there to the Italy detour with that some people would say stuck there. But it sounds like you didn’t you didn’t feel stuck you if you enjoyed your time there. So

Christine Cribb 5:34
exactly. And when I came here, I enjoyed hearing people’s stories on how they pivoted. And it was really meant to be moment when you can’t do anything. I’m in Italy, I cannot do anything. But watch, listen here. Watch how businesses were trying to pivot watch what they were doing differently. So I came back. So it just feeling very energized to to continue to help businesses. So yeah, but I did learn how to cook a lot of Italian food, I can tell you that I enjoyed. I enjoyed that as a

Brandon Burton 6:11
great skill to have. So will tell us a little bit about the Cleveland County Chamber just to give us an idea. We talked about the size and 619 members now but what is the staff situation look like the type the scope of work, you guys are involved with? Budget, that sort of thing to kind of set the stage for our conversation?

Christine Cribb 6:31
Oh, sure, absolutely. So when I joined the chamber, we were in July 2021, we were still attached to economic development partners. So that was well over a million dollar budget. But most of that was economic development partners. So we started from scratch. When they separated from us. We had at the time, five employees. We took it down. By fall of 2021. We took it down to to an administrative assistant and myself. So I wore all the hats of membership sponsor sponsorship, invoicing, billing, and I had an administrative assistant that was doing the scheduling that I told her, I was brand new in the community, I wanted to meet with every person I needed to meet with. And so she set my schedule, and I set out Google Maps, and I started to just meet people and cultivate and establish relationships. It was a it was, it was really a challenge. We also updated the website. So internally, we were putting a brand new website together, we flipped databases, which everyone knows that that can be a nightmare, I foolishly thought it would take us three months. And it actually took us almost a year to get it within really good working in a good working way. And then I hired my our master plan with the board was to hire more people as contract employees instead of employees inside the chamber building. So we have a two story building three offices upstairs. So we filled those three offices upstairs with leasing. And that funding was the revenue stream to help improve capital improvements for the chamber foundation. So people wonder what what the great value is of a chamber foundation, the foundation owns this building that that were housed in, in Uptown Shelby. And that leased property upstairs funnels for capital improvement projects to take care of the building. So we now have three employees. I’m I’m answering your question in a long, long sentence but it but it’s really exciting because we took bookkeeping out of office and the end had that, that contract. We took some marketing off and put that into contract employee. We our Monday minute our newsletter that was all done remotely as with a contract employee until I just brought her in last year. So now we have 2.8 members of the staff with a and looking to hire in fourth quarter one more member of the team. Awesome.

Brandon Burton 9:21
So going along with our topic for our discussion today’s we’re going to focus on the rapid growth that you guys have seen, especially coming out of the pandemic and since you’ve arrived there at the Cleveland County Chamber that plays right along with seeing the staff numbers as you guys you know had the economic development you know parts and you see those staff members leave but then building it back up to kind of match what you guys are doing with membership levels there is pretty impressive. So I am excited to dive in deeper on On the discussion for today and really learning what you guys did to really drive this rapid growth and I know you’ve got this infectious personality and a drive to really make things happen, but we’ll dive in deeper on that as soon as we get back from this quick break.

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All right, Christine, we are back. As I mentioned before the break, we’re going to focus our conversation today around the rapid growth that you guys have seen since you came on board there at the Cleveland County Chamber and especially coming out of the pandemic. I know, through the pandemic, obviously chambers everywhere were challenged, but also were able to really show their value, which at a time where their member businesses might be struggling chambers were able to really step up to be that that resource that they go to to help strengthen the business community. But I’d love to hear some of these experiences and kind of what those drivers were to help with this rapid growth.

Christine Cribb 13:25
Door. Thank you. So we I had a philosophy and I had it in my previous chamber that we don’t chase members, we attract members. And so that’s probably one of my best gold nuggets is I have not knocked on one door, nor has anyone on my team and said, you are a member of the Chamber of Commerce. Here’s my card. Let me tell you about the chamber. I’ve been very dependent on the chamber board ambassadors and fellow Chamber members. Now when I got here, it was kind of like the perfect storm brand. And because we’re coming out of the pandemic, there is one annual month or one monthly event and two annual events. And I remember telling staff that there there will be five in the next year monthly events. So I tell people, we introduced programs that do not if you only had a business after hours, and people would say well, I have to get home and I have to cook dinner for my children or do homework bla bla bla, I can’t attend a business after hours. Well, that that wouldn’t work in my chamber world because we have a business over breakfast, which is for the morning people which is a networking opportunity and a gold nugget speaker and then we have our member luncheon where we introduce our new members along with networking and a great gold nugget of a keynote speaker. And then we also have business after hours and every month we have to lunch and learns. And so I tell people if you if that doesn’t fit in your schedule any one Have those, I’m in bed by nine o’clock, and I can’t help you anymore. But I’m imagining that it would fit, you know, offering enough programs that fit with people with their schedules. So that was kind of the the brainstorm behind it is to create enough programs not to be I wasn’t afraid to fail, create enough events and programs that members would fit into member schedule to participate and be part of the chamber. And then really messaging what the chamber does, you know, we do not do community events. So we’re in my past chamber, we did, like four major community events here we don’t we are resources, marketing, continuing education, and networking. And we just drive home that if anyone was to give our 32nd speech, spiel of what the chamber does, we get to share, we are these four things. And our sole purpose is to help businesses succeed, we are not funded by the city, the county, or the state, we are a member driven organization with the goal of helping businesses succeed. That’s all it takes. And then when people repeat that, that’s where the growth comes from our social media presence had a lot to do with it. People walked in the door and said, I’m watching what you’re doing on social media, and I want to be part of it. So it was it was twofold. It was people talking about what we do and understanding when people say, oh, yeah, I’m a member of the chamber. Well, why are you a member, our ambassadors and our board? And those people actively involved in sponsorships and things like that? They can answer that question very easily.

Brandon Burton 16:41
Yeah. So let’s lean into those two areas a little bit more. So I think word of mouth is always the best form of marketing. So you said you’re trying to lean on other members and your board members, investors, that sort of thing to really drive is the buzz about what the Chamber’s doing. You’re not out there knocking on the doors, as you said. So what built that enthusiasm, that energy would infuse that energy to get these members talking? Was it the creating the events first? And then they were talking about them? Because they came in and experienced it? Or did you create a buzz that led to the events? Or what? How did that origin even

Christine Cribb 17:23
deeper? That’s a great question. So the first thing I did July through September 2021, is I went on a listening tour. And I made sure that what we were going to create as a team. And what I was going to pitch to the board at the board retreat in that October was what members wanted. So we did surveys, and I did a listening tour, I learned the past, I learned about the future and learned about the state of the businesses coming out of the pandemic, which is very different than before. So I listened. And then I vetted numerous things, not only from my past, that worked well, but I wanted to make sure they would work well here. I vetted it through the ambassador program, we each took a program, or an event that we had that had been pitched to me and we vetted it among the ambassadors. And then at the board retreat that October, I pitched the following year, what we were going to do. So when we share, you know, here’s what we’re going to do for 2022. We’re going to introduce nine new programs and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, it had all been vetted very well, it wasn’t just, you know, I have the enthusiasm and I have the the risk, I’m willing to take a risk in something failing to try to do something different than what had ever been done before. Also watching from the sidelines during the Chamber’s had to pivot drastically and make sure that their value was so relevant in the community, I didn’t want to just be, you know, when you ask someone, why are you a member of the chamber? Oh, we’ve been a member for 40 years, because we always have been or we should be, I want the answer to be. We’re a member the chamber because why wouldn’t you be? That’s the answer that I want one woman out.

Brandon Burton 19:13
I like to elevating that what that answer is in thinking is people are asking what is the better answer providing that experience for them to have the better answer that better response.

Christine Cribb 19:23
So we meet the other thing Brandon we do, which is just a staple in this chamber and with the ambassadors is we do not say the word no, there is no negative. The sounds kind of corny, but it’s just my philosophy. There are no negative words expressed. So if somebody comes in and says, I want you to blow up my logo in nine places, and I want you to do it for $100. Well, of course that answer is going to be no, but we never say the word. Now we say let’s Sit down and talk about the sponsorship packet. And let me show you what’s available. We we train staff, that there is never a negative word spoken in the office. And there is never we work around making sure that we do not use the word no to our members. Because we all know that chamber membership is an option, not in necessity. We’re not the electric bill. But we want to make sure that people feel like they cannot live without their business will not succeed without the energy that this chamber is putting behind them. Right?

Brandon Burton 20:31
Yeah, I’d love that mentality. So tell us a little bit more about the social media experience in the presence that you guys built there. And now you’d mentioned that you had now have that outsourced to do the marketing, if I understood that correctly. But what were some of those drivers on the social media front that really created engagement and, and brought people out?

Christine Cribb 20:56
Sure, the advantage I had was social media, specifically, Facebook was very active during pandemic coming into Cleveland County, North Carolina from Oak Harbor on would be island in Washington State, I had brought a following with me of chamber people if I could and businesses that wanted to see what what we what what I was going to do next where where I was. And so I actually started with my following personally, and then would forward it on to the chambers to the Chamber’s Facebook page and started to drive some traffic that way. And we focused on the energy of every single thing we did, about, for example, yesterday, we did, I spoke at BNI, presented at BNI at 730. In the morning, we did a ribbon cutting at four in the afternoon for a new nail salon. And then we had our gentleman’s bourbon dinner and tasting last night that started at 630. All of those went up on Facebook, to just remind people of all the things we’re doing to help businesses succeed in Cleveland County. So we put everything up there that the answer, the simplest answer is, the recipe is simply be positive in your posts, and post what a joy it is and how humbled you are to serve and get those posts up to show people the energy and what you’re doing. If you’re not on social media. How will people know what you’re doing? You know, if you’re so bogged down in the the the constant tasks of doing your chamber work? How do people know what you’re doing? And I feel like Facebook has been really a great tool for us.

Brandon Burton 22:47
Yeah, that’s interesting, taking your personal following and helping to build your your chamber following the chamber Facebook page that says interesting approach. I love how you mentioned when you came on board at the Cleveland County Chamber, you did this listening tours even around and want to know the businesses what the community was all about. Since then, the membership has almost doubled. I mean, you guys are knocking on the door of doubling the membership. And so that tells me there was a lot of members in the club or a lot of businesses in the community that were not currently members. So as you did the listening tour, as new members join that maybe been in the community for a while. What were some of the some of the feedback that you received have, maybe were, you know, things have been missing the mark in the past or things that you were doing that they noticed that they wanted to be a part of. I’m curious what some of those responses

Christine Cribb 23:50
are. So are. The message that we put out is definitely that we represent the business community in all of Cleveland County. So some people thought maybe the chamber was a little more exclusive. Some people thought maybe the chamber was more about the big businesses and not small business. Some people thought it was you know, a little bit of an old boys network down here. And I just reassured everyone that it’s it’s the Cleveland County Chamber of Commerce represents all businesses in Cleveland County, like we are a membership driven, but we were the biggest networking organization in Cleveland County, and we represent everyone. Now everyone also knows that coming out of the pandemic businesses started at such a historic pace that we also grabbed a hold of an awful lot of them. People that were small business that said, I’m going to get out of that work I have done in the past and I’m going to live my dream of being an entrepreneur and doing blank. So we welcomed them, we partnered with the Small Business Center at the community college to make sure that they had business plans and were prepared for things that would come up that they that were not their expertise, and just nurtured those. Now, we also all know, and we’re very realistic. So while we’re proud of our growth, we’re very realistic that only 70 that 75% of all new businesses will fail in the first five years. So at that growth that came out of the pandemic, we’re probably going to plan a decrease three and five years from now knowing that not all of them will succeed, but they did the energy that has already been established. Somebody says, I’m starting a business, they are going to come in, and we’re going to help tools and the resources to succeed. Some businesses had left the chamber prior to pandemic, for whatever reason, didn’t find the value. And we heard they, you know, we saw them come back, while businesses didn’t know that small businesses could be part of the chamber. And with that domino effect of people talking about all the events and the programs that we were doing, that brought them back in the door. So it was kind of multifaceted of who came in the door. But it all led back to someone telling someone else about the energy or the programs or I’m starting a business. Oh, you should go talk to the chamber. So getting the word out about what the chamber did was was the most critical, critical of that to make all that happen? Yeah,

Brandon Burton 26:31
absolutely. So when you came onto the the Cleveland County Chamber Did you? Did you have a goal when it came to membership is that? If you did has that been shared? Have you exceeded that? Are you still working towards it? I’m curious.

Christine Cribb 26:49
Let’s this so that anyone that knows me knows that I would have a goal. So that’s the first board retreat, a board retreat in 2021. I shared with the board that there was no reason this chamber and at the time, were 340. Probably by then. I said there’s no reason this chamber is not 1000 member chamber. And I remember the awkward silence that attacks there, because they just thought that membership was a struggle, right? That that chambers get that that stigma that you have to knock on a door and pitch somebody why you need to be a chamber member, and it’s not the right fit for everyone. So to me, I don’t need there’s 20,000 registered businesses and the registered deeds in Cleveland County, I don’t need 20,000 of them. I want to help those that want that need these benefits to help their businesses. And there is no reason we’re not going to hit 1000. I did not think we would accelerate at this pace. I’ll be honest, I thought it would take five, seven years to get to that 1000. But I anticipate that we’ll get there in the next two or three years now.

Brandon Burton 28:02
Yeah, that’s awesome. I love the big goals and the ability to believe it and to go after it. And it’s happening. So congratulations to you guys.

Christine Cribb 28:15
Thank you, Brandon. I also want to share that that the one I mentioned earlier that I’m not afraid to fail, we did it programmed, that did not work well. And I had no problem saying, you know, we gave it three shots, and it did not work. And so let’s do something else. So I’m not afraid to fail. So we introduced something. And if it works, that’s awesome. And if not, let’s just keep reinventing it. Let’s not stick in be stuck in what we’ve always done. Let’s do something new and different, or change it. Last year, we introduced a professional women’s luncheon. And to me, we needed I had one sponsor, and we needed 40. Women to to for me to think that I had it be a success. Well, we had RSVPs of 100. And that was capacity. And so we were sold out and we had a great keynote speaker come in and share stories. And it was very inspirational. And this year, so people were already asking what are what is the plan for next year. So 2024 we took it to a bigger venue. We’re going to be sold out at 200. We have a keynote speaker from the Ritz Carlton Leadership Center coming in, and we just reinvented it and made it bigger. So I am not afraid to just take a risk. If that professional women’s luncheon had not been successful, we would have gone on and tried something different. But that one was was a home run home run

Brandon Burton 29:41
for sure. I love that being able to cut the ones that aren’t serving you and lean in harder on the ones that are and before we started the recording, I had mentioned that the new event that you guys added last night, right for the first time. I’m going to tell a little bit about that and the success from there.

Christine Cribb 29:58
Absolutely So bourbon is a really a big deal here. And the people I’ve met that collect the bourbon that look for unique bottles, just kept resonating with me. And so last fall, I had this idea because we have a building that will be 40 years old and in 2025. And we have a revenue stream that supports some capital improvements. But we needed to beef up that funding a little bit more to get more work done. So we started something called the gentleman bourbon tasting and dinner. And it is at a new venue, which is has a like a speakeasy feel, and the the revenue made from it will go toward capital improvement. But it sold out we did small just like professional women’s luncheon, or Yeah, the professional women’s lunch, we did smile, we did a dinner a beautiful dinner with for 24 and did a very phenomenal raffle item. And both were sold out within three days. So we added a second night, which is tonight. And we’ll do an instant replay of the bourbon dinner and tasting. But I’m also and it does seem to be it’s going to net a few, quite a few $1,000. So it’s, it’s really great. But once again, if it wasn’t, I’d be totally okay with that. Like, if it didn’t work, then we’ll go do something else. But apparently I hit the nail on the head with this bourbon theme.

Brandon Burton 31:39
That’s fantastic. I love hearing the stories and, and being able to own up to when it’s not going to work to be able to cut the loss. So I love that

Christine Cribb 31:48
right. And let me share one let me serve on because I know that lots of chambers, they have a hard time pitching their board. And there’s some a mentor of mine once said, you manage up and you manage down so you manage your staff, obviously, but you also manage your board and you make sure they’re the board is crystal clear on what their responsibility is. And if a board member is passionate about marketing, then there’s a chairman of your marketing committee. And they you’re you’re tapping into what they want to contribute to the chamber. The other thing that’s really important to me is a good healthy relationship with your board of directors is really, really critical. But I’m also not afraid to ask anyone for an extra sponsorship. So somebody pays their membership dues. And oh, and we had a huge dues increase. Brandon this past year. So a year ago, I’m a believer that your operations need to equal your dues rather than your your revenue from your dues. I think most chambers operate that way. So programs and events, build better programs and events. That’s what they’ve that funding should do. But membership dues needs to equal your operating costs. So your operation budget and membership dues should be pretty much in line with each other. So we did a membership dues increase. And my philosophy was if somebody is not complaining about how much they’re paying for dues, then you’re not charging enough. Yeah. Think about think about that. So we increased from a basic membership dues here was $300. We increased it 25% and went to $400. And we have zero pushback. Wow. Not one person said so. And now that funding is equal to our operations budget. So that that was a, you know, an end to convince the board that this is best practices is that the Chamber revenue from their membership dues equals your operations budget. So let’s make that happen. And if we lose members along the way, I promise we’ll gain them in the long run. And we did not lose one member.

Brandon Burton 34:04
So

Christine Cribb 34:06
taking a risk like that, yeah, take a risk like that. Brandon, where if it had failed, I was prepared to say the worst case scenario is we start to lose members, but we will gain them back with the new members that will join that will pay $400. And we did not lose a member I we were taking a risk again, right? Yeah. So you have to be a risk taker. And you have to be positive about it the whole time. Like you can’t say, you know, I’ve listened to some cohorts that and they feel so bogged down, that their energy resonates with their staff, it resonates with their members, and it needs to be positive. So my background is in Macy’s specialty stores. I was their new store coordinator in the Midwest, a long, long time ago, but their philosophy was when you hit the floor, it’s showtime. And that’s kind of the philosophy here you know, you might have had a flat tire or the baby spit up on you or what Whatever. And I’m really sorry. And we can talk about that behind the scenes. But when you’re in front of a member in the community, it’s showtime you are you represent all the energy. And so your energy equal, what is in your membership? So if you’re positive and happy and you know, get it going on, then then that’s what’s your membership is going to resonate. And do you make everyone happy? No, but I’m a full. I’m a firm believer that we don’t need to make everyone happy. And if it’s not the right fit, you are welcome to leave the chamber. I don’t we don’t have to have a person that’s unhappy with the Chamber of Commerce as a member happily say goodbye. I’m sorry. Not a good bit.

Brandon Burton 35:41
Yeah. Such a great lesson there. And for chambers out there that are looking at needing to increase their dues, yeah, the revenue from their dues. This is a great example here at 25% increase with zero pushback. And I understand every community and chamber is different. But there’s one there, there’s room to increase and grow. So thank you for sharing.

Christine Cribb 36:07
Absolutely, and preparing for the worst case scenario. So someone came in and said, You know, I can’t afford $400 a year if they had said that, I would have obviously wanted to coach them on their business plan. But then I would also work with them. Right. So we could do quarterly payments, or we can do very seldom do I do monthly, but I could have done, you know, I was willing to say the worst case scenario, and somebody says that. Yeah, I was willing to work with him. It wasn’t just black and white. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 36:40
I love that. So as we start to wrap Yeah, as we started to wrap things up here, I wanted to ask for those that are listening who are looking to take their chamber up to the next level, what kind of tip or action item might you want to share with them that they can maybe take back to their chamber to implement?

Christine Cribb 37:01
I would do. Let’s see, when I walked in the door, we have a non negotiable list and that that positive attitude is non negotiable. So there’s that starts in house, I would take a look at not why it wouldn’t work. But what if it did work? Like I would give everything you’ve ever pitched thought of that anybody has said, you know, people come into our offices, and they say, You know what the chamber should do. And they say that as if you’re sitting, sitting back eating bonbons all day, right? Yes, and you want to say, oh, gosh, thank you so much for that. Now, I will give up my my cheesecake here and I will go do what you asked me to do. I would say throw everything on the wall and see what sticks. You know, throw all that spaghetti on the wall and take a risk. And don’t be afraid to fail. But along with that comes a great positive attitude. It comes with a great board relationship. Because if I ever thought I had to you know, if I had to think twice about the job I was doing because of my board of directors, I would not be doing this, we would not be as successful as we are right now. We have 100% support of a board that was huge. When I got here, we downsize it. I’ve an advisory committee, I vet things through them. Every I communicate with them regularly, there is no doubt in the board’s mind what’s going on at the chamber and what we’re doing, having them along for the ride. And then build programs that attract people don’t chase members build programs that attract but do it in a way that members had a part of what was going on. They had a part of creating it, man, you get a piece of that. You give someone an idea. Somebody gives you an idea, and you’re actually taking it and bringing it to fruition. They were thrilled. You know they’re there. They’re part of your chamber, then that’s more than just writing and chat.

Brandon Burton 38:58
Yeah, that’s awesome. Yeah, they become an advocate for where you guys are doing them too and helping to share that. That greater good. And there

Christine Cribb 39:09
goes the word of mouth. The word of mouth. I’m telling you, I’ve not knocked on one door and not given my card to one person and said, Are you a chamber member? I’ve not done it. So even last night at the Bergen event, seven of the attendees were not Chamber members and three of them came up after and said we used to be members and now I’d like to rejoin So my number is going to increase in just just this week alone. But and I didn’t say a word it was the premier sponsor said if you are not a chamber member right now you you need to think twice about that decision. And we got three members and I never said a word I never pitched other than what we do and what the funding was going toward for the event last night. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 39:56
I love it and it wasn’t exclusive member only event. So you open it up and you know, opportunities so good.

Christine Cribb 40:04
We also most all of our events, so even a lunch and learn is no fee for a chamber member but a $10 fee for a non member. And generally at every lunch and learn there is someone who is a non member, and we get to I get to come in, they do a roundtable, and I introduced the chamber and what we do, and that’s it, most all of our events have a member and non member fee. Right?

Brandon Burton 40:28
Yeah, I love it. So as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Christine Cribb 40:40
I feel if I, when I give my 32nd Get a pitch about a chamber, we have to constantly reinvent ourselves and stay relevant. So when I did that listening tour when I got here, Brandon, I could get a lot of appointments, but I could not get one appointment with a elected official. So it told me that the chamber was not relevant when it came to elected officials. Now, we have a legislative affairs committee, we have a legislative affairs agenda. And last spring, we had 195 people attend a Monday morning at 730 legislative breakfast. So cultivating those relationships and being relevant, like don’t think it’s just the way it’s always been, is the way we can do it going forward. Before I got here, I did a nationwide search and I interviewed with six different chambers. And I got six different job offers, which told me I probably have a screw loose to get back into this business. But I was just passionate when I came back from Italy about coming back and helping businesses succeed. And in doing that some chambers weren’t even opened back up yet brand and like they were still scared about what the future would hold. And I would say you have to take risks and you have to reinvent yourself all the time, you have to be relevant, reinvent yourself to what is relevant, and stay positive and energize. And when you think what we do what our responsibility is as a chamber is to offer business resources. We offer marketing, we offer continuing education, and networking opportunities. Those four things are what businesses need to succeed. So as long as you’re reinventing yourself to focus on those four purposes, at least, that’s within our chamber. If those four pillars are the reason we’re here to help businesses succeed, those are what we have to reinvent every year and make sure every one of them is at the best capacity we can provide to help businesses succeed. That’s the future of the chamber, I believe. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 42:47
I love that love that glimpse of the future. I wanted to make sure you had a chance to share any contact information for listeners who might want to reach out learn a little more from us figure out how you guys are doing things are in the Cleveland County Chamber, what would be the best way for someone to reach out and connect with you?

Christine Cribb 43:07
Well, that’s wonderful. They could connect three ways you can certainly connect over messenger on Facebook at my Facebook is Christine Cribb. You could connect via email christine@clevelandchamber.org. And I’m happy to give my spell out 360-632-6533 To reach out best way is a text. If you email as all chamber world knows if you’re at the first email when I sit down, you are in luck, and you are thrilled that I just replied. But if you are the 80th one, you’re like, why isn’t that woman replied to my email yet. So anyway, any of those ways, I’m happy to reach out I’ve mentored a few chamber directors. And I’m just thrilled at this work. I love that we make a difference in the business community. We had a member that came in wanting to do something that was a sponsorship. When I first got here, he did website. And he then got involved in the chamber just from a conversation with staff and myself. He went from seven clients to 32 clients and he’s hiring two new part time people. And it’s because he just immersed himself in getting his card out there and talking to people and attending events and he became an ambassador and he contributes his success with with getting involved in the chamber. So it works.

Brandon Burton 44:39
Yes, I love it. I love it. But Christine, I have enjoyed having you on the show today. I love the enthusiasm, the passion that you bring to your chamber work and sharing the experiences and stories that you’ve experienced, especially over the last two and a half years. As you’ve seen this rapid growth or Cleveland County Chamber I appreciate you putting aside time to be with us today. And wish you the best on reaching that goal of 1000 Plus members there at your chamber thing. Thank you for being with us today.

Christine Cribb 45:16
Thank you so much Brandon. It was such an absolute pleasure and I love this world and I love I love chambers and helping businesses succeed. It’s an absolute pleasure that you had me on as a guest. Thank you.

Brandon Burton 45:28
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State Chamber as a Resource with Amy Cloud

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Let’s hear from Becky Womble, President of the Bastrop Chamber to hear about her experience with Community Matters.

Learn how you can partner with Community Matters, Inc. to produce your next Chamber Directory, Community Guide or Map.

Our guest for this episode is Amy Cloud. Amy currently serves as the Executive Director for the Kentucky Chamber of Commerce Executives. In this role, Amy maintains the level of professional development services that KCCE makes available to the local chamber executives and key volunteers. She activates statewide business advocacy and grassroots networks of local chambers and member companies. She plans and executes her annual conference and several smaller educational events each year. Amy also oversees the KCC e communications advises chamber executives and supports other local chambers in a variety of different ways. Amy has also previously served as executive director at the Jessamine County Chamber and at the Girard County Chamber. That Amy, I’m excited to have you with us today here on chamber chat podcast. I’d love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the chamber champions that are out there listening and if you would share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better.

Amy Cloud 3:03
Hey Brandon, thanks for inviting me on your show. This is wonderful. Like you mentioned before I have been in the chamber industry it’s been about 17 years I got my start on a fluke at a chamber in Middle Tennessee and beautiful McMinnville Warren County in Tennessee, so shout out to them. It’s makes me feel old and I’ve been in this industry so long. But anyway, a little bit about me. I’m a proud graduate of the University of Kentucky Go Cats, farm girl at hearts, got a farm with some sheep and cows and horses and my amazing Border Collies got a great partner in crime my husband of almost 30 years and two great kiddos, one’s a freshman in college, and one is a junior in college. So just a little bit about me chamber. Life is in my blood. And it’s great to find a job that you’re passionate about. I’ve been fortunate enough to not only work as a volunteer to chamber be a member of a chamber as a business owner, but also direct a couple three chambers and now work at the state level. So this is definitely my passion and definitely my career.

Brandon Burton 4:08
Yeah. So you mentioned you came into it as a fluke. I love hearing the origin story of how people came into chamber world if you don’t mind sharing what that Fluke was.

Amy Cloud 4:19
Well, sure. I got a great opportunity as a 20 something to join a large corporation in their marketing department and moved me from my home state of Kentucky to Middle Tennessee. It was in like I said the marketing department. Six months after I started they had a corporate restructuring. So our facility closed and moved to Mexico and the marketing department was reduced from seven to one which was my boss. So I lost my job in a new city in a new state with my first home. My husband was first time out of state as well. And I answered an ad in the local week. The paper for a public relations marketing professional, and that ended up being the Vice President of Operations for the McMinnville Warren County Chamber of Commerce. I don’t even know what a chamber was when I went to the interview. So it was a great experience. And I was hooked. I was hooked after that.

Brandon Burton 5:16
So you come from that perspective of not knowing what a chamber was, and now being over communications and being able to help relay what that story is, is very helpful. I’m sure. It is. It is it love it. Well, tell us a little bit about the KCC II just give us an idea of kind of everything that you’re involved with. I know I touched on a little bit of it with the bio, but there is a lot to it. So if you don’t mind helping to set the stage for listeners just to understand what what your role is, and, and what the organization is all about.

Amy Cloud 5:49
Absolutely. KCC E is a resource to local chambers. We offer professional development. For the staff, we offer board training for their volunteer board members, or their volunteer Ambassador group or committee chairs, whatever that looks like strategic planning services, networking opportunities, we are a resource, so they don’t feel like they’re alone. So many local chamber professionals feel like an island because no one else in the community does what they do. A Chamber of Commerce is the only organization in town that is solely dedicated to the prosperity of the business community. Other people have that as part of their plan, you know, banks, banks, or community colleges, or whatever that looks like. But the sole business of a chamber is the business community. And so I feel like we try to be that partner for them that champion for them. They can call on me for advice. A lot of them just say, Hey, this is what’s going on, what would you do, as opposed to, hey, we’re planning this new event, and we don’t want them to reinvent the wheel. So we gather up continually resources as people do new projects, new activities, new events, they rewrite their bylaws, they have new policies and procedure manuals. I mean, all that in the weeds kind of stuff. And we make sure that we don’t allow other people to reinvent the wheel, there’s no need for it. It’s a joke around our industry that plagiarism is Latin for Chamber of Commerce. It’s the highest form of compliment compliment for one chamber to steal another chambers idea. So we certainly encourage that. And we do a lot of r&d, which is ripoff and duplicate. A great thing in Kentucky is I’m a full time staff member at the State Chamber. So that makes a great relationship between our local chambers, and our State Chamber and that empowers them to be even bigger and better than ever.

Brandon Burton 7:52
Yeah, no, I love that. And that leads in well to what our topic for our conversation is today about using your State Chamber as a resource. So listeners across the country as they listen to this obviously will have their own State Chambers. So you don’t necessarily represent all of them. But hopefully this gives them ideas of how to utilize their State Chamber and to see the great power that can be there as having that advocate and that that resource to go to. So we will dive much deeper into this discussion as soon as they get back from this quick break.

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All right, Amy, we’re back. So as I mentioned before the break today, we’re talking about utilizing your State Chamber as a resource. So from your vantage point, you’ve been on both sides of the desk, so to speak, where you were, you know, at the the local chamber level, and now as a State Chamber employee and and KCC II, how do you see the value or as a local chamber? What should they be looking to the State Chamber and organizations like yours to support them? Absolutely.

Amy Cloud 11:20
And I’ll speak coming from Kentucky, it’s a little bit different in every state the relationship that local chambers have with their State Chamber, as well as their state association. Not all state associations are in house with their State Chamber, that shouldn’t keep anyone from building relationship with both. A great advantage with being connected with your State Chamber is your grassroots advocacy. Your State Chamber is probably one of the largest, if not the largest lobbying efforts in your state at your state level of government. They know the players they know the constitutional officers like your governor and your Secretary of State. They have great relationships with the representatives and senators from across your state, not just yours at the local level. They understand what’s good for business across the state because they get input from folks across the state, the state chamber membership has members just like a local one, that varying from single owner businesses to the fortune 500. So by having a relationship with your State Chamber, you can get a lot of that information about bills and laws that are being passed or being defeated. At the state level without a lot of legwork on your part. You can also encourage your community to have a voice and to be an advocate. That’s why it’s grassroots advocacy. It’s from the root up. And the root is the local community. Having a voice holding your elected officials accountable, is what we all need to do as voters in our country is we need to exercise that right. And I believe chambers can do that without being a political entity. local chambers don’t need to be political entities supporting individual politicians, but they can certainly be a public policy entity where they educate the voter. Let the voter know what’s going on at the state capitol at the National Capitol. What’s happening in government, what’s good for business, what’s happening that’s good or bad for business and how they can be proactive about it. I can’t say it enough, how engaged our local chambers are in Kentucky because of the relationship they have with the Public Affairs Department at the State Chamber through KCC II.

Brandon Burton 13:47
As far as the grassroots efforts, part of it goes with the with the chamber. And by definition, I picture these topics, these pieces of legislation, maybe the need to get a little more traction are coming from a lot of the local chambers up to the State Chamber and then maybe you help disseminate it to other local chambers. Is that how you kind of see that model typically working? Or what’s that flow of information look like?

Amy Cloud 14:15
grassroots advocacy works both ways. We want to hear the pain points of our local communities, and we count on our local chambers to share that with us. That’s grassroots, you know, from the root up, we certainly want to hear things that we should focus on that will be beneficial to their business community. And we count on that relationship for that. Likewise, we also have information that we have researched that we have heard about that our councils at the state level have taken into account and helped with Bill writing and supportive bills that our legislators come up with. And we know it’s good for business community statewide. And so we share that to them downwards. So it works both ways. As we we have lobbyists that actively during session are at the Capitol and are talking to the legislators and pushing this agenda for the State Chamber. We have researchers that understand the bills, these bills can be 80 pages long, and nobody has time to sit around to understand that bill. But we have researchers that all put it into two or three paragraphs that we get to share with our local chamber. So they understand really what the bill means who it’s good for, who it’s not good for, if it’s something that they should be supporting, or something that they should be against. We offer that to them. So it’s almost like on their staff, they have researchers and on there, they have lobbyists, we certainly don’t encourage local chambers to be political as in supporting a political candidate, the State Chamber does that we have a political action committee, that that’s kind of what we do. We’re a lobbying organization, local chambers, we want them to be public policy, which is different than political, because public policy is educating your voter. And we all know what happens when you don’t have educated voters. So the more we can educate the public, the better. And we utilize our local chambers for that. We encourage them to come to the Capitol, we host our local chambers, all year long, to come to the Capitol to have meetings with our constitution officers to meet with their local legend. Legislators, excuse me, Senators and Representatives, we help facilitate that. We don’t want that conversation to be easy. We want them to hold their elected officials accountable. And a way to do that is just by keeping that relationship and that communication open. And the State Chamber is very good at doing that for our local chambers. Yeah.

Brandon Burton 16:44
So you had mentioned about the wanting to hear about the community pain points. And and I just had this vision in my head of there’s different ways that that gets translated and that information gets to you. And is there a more effective way of sharing community pain points with your State Chamber and state associations where it doesn’t come off as whining or complaining about whatever’s happening? But to be able to really go to you as an advocate and say, here’s what we’re seeing in our community? And does it ever come across that way? Where it’s just whining and complaining? Or?

Amy Cloud 17:18
Of course it does, and that’s okay. But I mentioned before, you know, relationships are the key to everything, you know, if if a local chamber has a good relationship with the State Chamber, whether it’s me, or someone on our public affairs team, work with our foundation, whatever that is, I think that it can be a an adult conversation with, Hey, this is what’s going on, hey, this is what’s happening. They can say to someone who is probably complaining to the local chamber about something, here’s a friend that I have at this State Chamber, give them a call we we virtually hand out our emails and our cell phone numbers. So that local chambers can be the convener, they don’t have to be the communicator, they don’t have to be the, you know, the one with all the knowledge. But they can be the convener and say, Hey, let me share this person with you. Let me share this list of priorities the State Chamber has with you. Let me share with you what this bill looks like broken down. Let me ask them about this bill. I’ve not heard of this bill, look chambers, or I might even say that, let’s find out. So it gives them that next step to be that all inclusive community organization that wants the business, you know, businesses grow. So it gives them that next step of saying, Hey, we don’t know the answer, but we know people who do and what a great organization to have locally that you get you understand your friends with you trust you see every day, as opposed to someone at the State Chamber or someone in the legislature that you don’t know at all, and would be afraid to ask the question do not even know how to ask the question to our local chambers or that information booth. And they can share with us and then we can share stuff back with him.

Brandon Burton 18:55
Yeah, no, that is great. The relationships are so key and being able to have that level of trust to where yeah, it might seem like you’re complaining, maybe like you said maybe to another local chamber, but they have those relationships and put you in touch with people that can help and, and all All in all, it’s a very supportive effort. So it

Amy Cloud 19:16
makes us look good. It makes us look good. You know, I mean, we can be superficial about stuff. If people are supporting the state chamber and supporting KCC II communities. We have 120 counties in Kentucky, every county across the state. The people then will recognize when we are talking when the State Chamber is talking. We know what we’re talking about. They trust what we’re saying, because they’ve heard in detail what we’re doing because our local chambers have given the testimonial to that. They believe in us because who they believe in believes in us. So it’s a whole relationship even if they don’t know me. They understand that a local chamber professional believes in me and knows that I’m Gotta give them good information. So they trust me, even if they don’t know me. That if that makes sense. It’s just it’s that relationship. It’s all about everybody understanding, we’re all on the same page. We’re all after the same results. And we’re at a higher level, because it’s not just local government you’re dealing with when you’re talking about advocacy, its state and national government where you feel like as a local community, you have true representation.

Brandon Burton 20:24
Yes. So as a state as a resource, state chambers for local chambers advocacy and supporting those grassroots efforts is so vital. But I know that’s just a percentage. So what are some of those other benefits that local chambers can turn to you for as as support?

Amy Cloud 20:45
Absolutely, yes, that is just a little bit. But it’s important. That’s why I wanted to make sure we talked about it. We do offer professional development opportunities. KCC II is a huge supporter of Institute of organization management. It’s a national program that the US Chamber puts on, we are a huge supporter of ACC and the national convention that happens every year with them, as well as different programming throughout the year. So our association and our State Chamber offers scholarship opportunities for these folks to be able to attend programs outside the state. That is, that only makes them a better version of themselves. So then the chamber is raised to a higher level, we offer networking opportunities for folks to get together and share, like I mentioned earlier, you know, you feel like you’re on island, when you run a local chamber in a local community. But understanding there’s people just like you and every community across our state, that might have some of the same pain points, or be champions for each other that they want to share in the winds. And they want to steal a great idea. And they want to do regional partnership, and they want to do stuff together. And they can’t wait to see each other and get caught back up again. And they you know, they utilize each other now for judging awards and for coming to different summits and different Angel dinners. And you’ve formed that relationship with people that get you, you know, people support you and a local community as a as a chamber director, but they don’t get what you do. They don’t sit behind that desk, even your board members don’t. But connecting with people who get you is rewarding. And it’s it’s a stress reliever, because you know that you can pick up your phone. And if you can’t talk to them, you can certainly talk to me, but you can say, oh my gosh, this is what happened with a board member today. How would you handle this member? What would you do if this event didn’t work? Or how do you? What do you do when this event is overwhelmingly successful? How do you capitalize on it, you’ve got people across the state from every size community, and the tiniest to the biggest that will talk to you and share with you and be your best friend and partner, when you’re trying to figure out next steps for your local chamber. Other than that, like I said, we have word resources, and a huge server at work full of information, whether it’s bylaws or evaluations or how to do a golf tournament. You know, do you have a copy of mission statements, whatever, you name it, we’ve got some sample from somewhere and I collect those from all over the country. So people can form their own, but they have a sample of what someone else has done before them. Let’s not reinvent the wheel, we don’t have time for that. I do strategic planning for chambers. It’s a it’s an additional fee. But it’s a four to five hour strategic planning session that I offer our local Chambers as well as board development training, to help get their board on board to help the volunteers understand what’s expected of them at the chamber. It’s not a nonprofits, it’s a it’s a not for profit, and what the difference means when you say that, but it is to be a 501 C three, as opposed to a 501 C six, you know, there’s the difference in those two things. Understanding you know, what your mission is and how you support your paid staff. And if you’re a volunteer chamber, how you step up as a board member, so there’s resources like that, that that people use constantly and I love it. I want them to people like oh my gosh, I can’t believe I’m calling you on Saturday afternoon it’s like that’s what I’m here for. You know, I know most of their most of their issues and most of their stuff comes up after work hours you know they they deal with their day and then they need to know I mean that’s why to add such everybody my phone I’m like I got my cell phone with me all the time if I’m awake, and not on vacation because I don’t answer my phone a vacation. I will answer you text me call me. I’ll get back to you as soon as I can. Just because I know what it’s like I’ve been there. I know what it’s like to go oh my gosh, what I do what I do, I’ve been a staff of one. I’ve had a staff around me as well. You know you there’s a lot of plates in the gear and you want just a group of people are someone to say am I doing this right? Is this okay? And at the same time I also constantly want to tell my chamber professionals you are rockstars I tried to be a chair linger for them, because I know what it’s like to not have cheerleaders, you know? So there’s a lot. That’s just kind of in a nutshell, I’m sure I’m missing a bunch of stuff. But oh, that’s,

Brandon Burton 25:08
that’s terrific. And all of it in the end is it’s helping to raise the bar of the local chambers and making them better be more successful represent their business community in a much better way. And that’s all based on resources that you guys are able to offer.

Amy Cloud 25:25
And, you know, we can brag a little bit they award at national chamber of the year, ACC. And the last statistic I had was that Kentucky has the most applicants, the most finalists. And I think we still might have the most winners since it started in 2007. Little mini all Kentucky. Yeah. So I mean, we want people to be proud, we want them to be proud of their chamber. We want them to utilize best practices, which you have to in order to apply for awards like that. We always have one or two people on the 40 under 40 list every year for executives in the chamber industry. We have at least two people enter IOM every year. So we have eight to 10 people in the institute program every year. We’re just proud of our chamber professionals, and we try to do everything we can to make them better, because then it makes their chamber the best version of itself if their leadership is the best version of itself, if that makes sense.

Brandon Burton 26:28
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Not only make us

Amy Cloud 26:30
look better, yeah, they only make us look better when they are achieving at top notch level. It makes us look good. And we count on them as a resource, you know, the better they are, the better we the better information we get.

Brandon Burton 26:41
Yeah, absolutely. I love that. I’m glad you shared that that tidbit there. As a for chambers that are listening who are interested in taking their chamber up to the next level, you’ve offered a lot of great counsel, I’ll say resources using your State Chamber. But what other maybe tip or action item might you have for listeners who are looking to elevate their chamber to the next level?

Amy Cloud 27:08
Oh, goodness, I keep saying this word. But you know, build, build relationships. I don’t care what other people say about an elected official in town, or someone who runs a large company or a small business, you need to form your own relationship with them and make it work. You need to be proactive and say, what’s going to work for you? What do we need to do for you, you’re a service organization. So make sure you’re servicing your members, they invest in you, I’m encouraged chambers. So not say you have dues, but you have investments, what is your annual investment, because when people talk investments, then they also talk about return. So you want to be able to give a return on your investment and ROI to your members every year. And that’s a relationship that’s an asking and listening of what can we do for you. Let’s try it. We tried it, it didn’t work. We tried it, it did work. That’s a relationship. Gen Y and Gen Z are go getters, they just don’t understand why they have to pay to pay to be a part of an organization. That’s your next group of leaders, Gen Y and Gen Z are the ones that we’re gonna fix into be CEOs in the next five to 10 years. So for me, I think chambers needed to find a need and fill the need. What do they need? And how can you fill that need? Where do you offer expertise that isn’t common knowledge that they would be willing to in vast, the ROI invest in their local chamber? Where they wouldn’t be able to get that opportunity anywhere else? How can they help entrepreneurs? How can they help small businesses in a way that no other group can? And that you can’t do it by yourself? That’s a big thing for me is understanding that next generation of leaders and how the chamber can still be a relevant organization for that group of

Brandon Burton 29:01
people. Yeah. Which that that leads right into our next question. So you’ve seen in worked with chambers of all different sizes, and focuses of work, we’ll say. So as you look to the future of chambers, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Amy Cloud 29:21
There’s there’s room there’s room for chambers. I think the more that chambers become public policy chambers that people understand it’s a well rounded organization. Just as recent as 10 years ago, a lot of local chambers were considered the like the the Welcome Wagon. They did the Christmas parade and then they took, you know, welcome goodie baskets to a new business. They might have done ribbon cuttings, you know, it was kind of a Hospitality Group. And in the last 10 years or so, I think people have seen how it is changed into And truly, what can we do to make our businesses better? How can we help with economic development? How can we help with public policy? What needs to change at the local level to make our business community more successful? How do we need to help recruit businesses? How do we need to help keep people, you know, working with the school system, working with local government, working with transportation, housing, you know, you start you’re starting to see that local chambers are taking on more of that responsibility. But that’s good, because like I said earlier, they’re the only organization whose sole purpose is for the growth and prosperity of the business community. And that doesn’t just mean economic development. That means you have to support employees, and what they let what kind of environment they live in, is there good housing? Are there good schools? Are there good roads, so they’ve been able to expand their reach, because they are being asked to handle those situations. I think that if they continue to focus more and more on that, than they will be growing into that business organization, that people need them to be, as opposed to the hospitality organization that they are on the front end.

Brandon Burton 31:10
Yeah, I love that. And they even said that, we’re kind of refined it down to that sole purpose of fostering that growth and prosperity in their community. And I know every chamber should have their their mission statement. And hopefully, that’s embedded somewhere in their mission statement, and in one way or another. But Amy, I wanted to give you an opportunity for those listening, especially those in Kentucky that need to reach out and connect with you but but even others who are just curious about what you know what all you guys offer or tips direction, what would be the best way for someone to reach out and connect with you? Oh, goodness,

Amy Cloud 31:48
um, you can reach me on my phone. Emails really good. My email address is acloud@kychamber.com. You can find resources that we offer on the Kentucky Chamber, a website, KYChamber.com. You’ll see under local resources, there’s a KCCE website. Reach out to me, I’m happy to talk with anybody about what I do. And I would love to learn what other people are doing as well. I like to be a student as much as a teacher, and pride myself. I’m trying to learn something new every day. So if anybody wants to share some great ideas that Kentucky can be doing, I’m happy to hear that as well.

Brandon Burton 32:31
Yeah, let’s get the information going both ways. I love that. Absolutely. I appreciate you being with us today on chamber chat podcast has been a great conversation have provided a lot of insights and hopefully, maybe open the eyes to some local chambers about what resources they can tap into at their State Chamber organizations. So thank you for sharing all that with us today. And hope you guys continue doing great things and making a huge impact in Kentucky.

Amy Cloud 33:01
I appreciate it, Brandon. Thanks for having me.

Brandon Burton 33:03
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Chambers Promoting Themselves with Brian Bondy

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Let’s hear from Becky Womble, President of the Bastrop Chamber to hear about her experience with Community Matters.

Learn how you can partner with Community Matters, Inc. to produce your next Chamber Directory, Community Guide or Map.

Our guest for this episode is Brian Bondi, Brian has been with the Granbury Chamber of Commerce in Texas since April 21. Brian has been a part of the Chamber of Commerce work in Texas and Missouri for over 30 years serving as a volunteer committee member, Committee Chair, Board member and board officer before transitioning to the other side of the desk with the Northwest communities Chamber of Commerce in suburban St. Louis. He has been a Rotarian for more than 20 years, having served as club presidents in both Kerrville and San Marcos, Texas, and is also at Paul Harris fellow. Brian has graduated from Stephen F. Austin State University and also has earned the IOM designation through his participation and graduation from the US Chamber of Commerce Institute. Brian and his wife Jean have two adult daughters and Lauren who teaches in Mansfield ISD and Aaron earned her master’s and PhD from Washington University in St. Louis, and one awesome granddaughter Emery who turned to in July. But Brian, I’m excited to have you with us today here on chamber chat podcast, I’d love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the chamber champions that are out there listening and share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better.

Brian Bondy 3:16
Brandon, thank you so much for having me on the show. Really appreciate it. There’s really not a lot to me, other than I can truly say that my claim to fame was I was a contestant on the prices, right. And I got up on stage with Bob Barker a long time ago, did not win the car. And, you know, I still have to live that down to this day.

Brandon Burton 3:40
That is awesome, though. Not many people can say that. I mean, I guess a lot of people can but not many people, you know, can say they’ve been on the prices. Right? Exactly. That’s right. That’s cool. So maybe just a side tangent, my wife’s uncle. He was on prices right in the 80s. So Bob Barker, and he did win the Showcase Showdown, one at all. And then like 30 years later, so just it was just a couple years ago, actually that he was back on again with Drew Carey, and won both showcases. So he’s been on twice and one one at all twice. And I don’t know many people have done that. But it was it was pretty amazing. And he shared pictures of you know, when he was on in the 80s. And then just a couple of years ago and it was pretty neat.

Brian Bondy 4:27
That’s pretty awesome. Yeah, my my true memory array of it wasn’t the show itself. But immediately after the taping was over all of the contestants that got on stage that won something were immediately taken behind stage to fill out the appropriate tax forms,

Brandon Burton 4:42
right. The important stuff was Yeah, yeah. Well, that is that’s interesting. That’s neat. I appreciate you sharing that with us and DeMonte to take a few moments and tell us a little bit about the Granberry chamber just to kind of set the stage for our conversation. Since the day to give everyone an idea of the size of the chamber scope of work staff budget, that sort of thing before we dive into our discussion.

Brian Bondy 5:08
So the robbery chamber was founded in 1952. And we are about 40 miles southwest of Fort Worth, Texas. We are a true standalone community even though a good portion of our workforce commutes to the Metroplex of just under 900 members and a budget of a little over $600,000 We do not engage in economic development with the city or county and we do not engage in any of the visitors bureau with the hotel motel tax dollars. So everything that our chamber generates is done through membership investments, or special events and our programming and in marketing marketing events. And the chamber that we like to say is where the largest chamber and the smallest city in Texas

Brandon Burton 5:58
Yeah, no, that’s true. And you guys you guys do definitely have things working on on all cylinders that they’ve been blessed to do some work with you guys down there in the Granberry chamber and love the community and you guys are rocking it so keep up the great work.

Brian Bondy 6:14
Thank you appreciate that.

Brandon Burton 6:16
As we get into our topic today I think it’s a very relevant topic for chambers across the country and as we talk about the need and and value and chambers promoting themselves and very often chambers don’t want it to their own horn or it may feel a little awkward to be no self promotion tends to have some negative context to it. But I think what the chamber self promoting is not so much the chamber necessarily is it’s promoting your members and activities and the benefits and the ways that you can promote your members so I’m super interested to hear your your spin your angle on this as soon as they get back from this quick break.

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All right, Brian, we’re back. So tell us how does the Granbury Chamber approached the idea of promoting the chamber? As I mentioned before the break, there’s that that idea of self promoting maybe has that negative context. But I don’t believe it has to be that way. And I don’t think you believe that either. So what’s your guys approach to it?

Brian Bondy 9:13
So just by way of background, you know, for years and years, you know, chambers focused almost exclusively on their members. And there’s nothing wrong with that, quite frankly, that’s a big part of what our mission is, is to help our businesses grow and get better and tooting their horns is a big part of how we grew. But the worst thing in the world that I have heard over the years is I had no idea that chamber could do that, because we don’t get our message out.

Brandon Burton 9:40
Or what does the chamber do? Right. Exactly.

Brian Bondy 9:44
And how many recordings have you done over the years that have said that exact same thing? Our aim is not necessarily to put an end to that but at least put a dent in it. And I’ll just start with when we move to Granbury I Right community, great Chamber of Commerce. But the messaging had had been totally lost in in the COVID translation, right. So not only did we take the steps to rebrand the chamber, create a new logo, build a new website, but we really did hit on the idea that it’s time to promote ourselves. And that involves a lot of social media. Because let’s face it, back in the day, we had a couple of options, you could promote yourself through your newspaper, maybe some radio, but for the most part, doing any kind of television or video was was really kind of out of the realm of realistic unless you were a Metro Chamber of Commerce with with especially deep pocket, the advent of relatively inexpensive video opportunities, as well as social media members should be jumping on this right now.

Brandon Burton 10:56
Absolutely. So as you guys take that approach, what what is the type of messaging you tend to get out as you are maybe some of the recent campaigns maybe that you guys have put out there to promote the chamber and the work that you guys are involved with.

Brian Bondy 11:10
So I’m really excited that we’re having this conversation today. Because within the next week or so, we’re going to be rolling out a testimonial campaign. In fact, we’re going to roll it out at our banquet at the end of January. And essentially, we recorded probably two dozen people at our marketing firms headquarters. And we wanted them to say what’s the one word that makes you think of the Chamber of Commerce. And the beauty of this is you’re gonna get a different word for every person that we talk to. And that’s going to be an opportunity for us to toot our horns, it says, it’s not just about networking, it’s about advocacy. It’s about marketing, it’s about relationships, it’s about going the extra mile, it’s about caring about the community. And so I’m talking about chambers have to be willing to step up to the plate to promote themselves.

Brandon Burton 12:05
Yes, I love that, that whole idea of testimonials in general, I mean, you’re you’re able to generate great feedback one, so you can learn, you know, the impact you’re making on your Chamber members. But then you’re able to see where they see the value in the chamber. So you can you know, take that information and get from them leaning a little heavier or, or maybe find those areas that you feel like you’re doing some positive work, but nobody’s mentioning that. And maybe, maybe you need to lean in a little harder, or maybe you scrap that piece of that work. But these testimonials, then you’re able to repurpose in several ways to say you’re capturing him on video. But then I would imagine there’s a strategy out there to, you know, unroll, you know, some other posts and other other ways of sharing these messages that they’re putting out there with their testimonials, am I am I hitting on point with that

Brian Bondy 12:59
you are nailing it to the wall, let me tell you, you know, the beauty of having a lot of good B roll footage is we can pull tidbits anytime we need to right. And that’s what I would tell the people that were coming in look, I’m not looking for, you know, a 10 minute discussion. I’m just looking for a couple of soundbites that I can pull out edit down and use whenever we have something going on. And and the real beautiful thing about promoting yourself is it’s not coming from staff, it’s coming from people who are already members of the chamber, they believe in the mission. And the message also goes out to those who are Chamber members, why they should become part of the organization.

Brandon Burton 13:41
Right? So with these members that you’ll be highlighting, I love the idea of being able to repurpose that content, as you put it out there for the community to see for other potential members possibly to see. Are you somehow identifying the individual, their company, what type of business they are just to kind of give that flavor in the community as to what types of businesses you serve? Or what’s that part of the vision look like?

Brian Bondy 14:10
Yeah, we’re very fortunate. It’s a it’s a small town. And most of the people that have come into the studio to do the recording are pretty well known. So we may not do any any character generation with our first generation of of spots. But we can see that going down the road as we create other content, where we want to be able to identify that, you know, this is our CEO of our hospital, or superintendent of schools. So then it ends an air of credibility to the person who’s who’s talking. And that way the person who listens and sees what they’re, what they’re going what we’ve put out there. They’ll like, oh, I never even thought about doing something like that. Right

Brandon Burton 14:52
now. That’s so valuable. Now, you had mentioned social media being a great tool. Are chambers to be able to get messaging out like this and affordable way? What does this strategy look like across the different social platforms? Because I can see maybe having a YouTube channel and obviously Facebook, a lot of people are on Instagram and reels and all that as the list goes on and on. But what are some of those things that you guys have thought of as specifically, it may be good just to hone in on this campaign. As you you know, repurpose content and take those those tidbits out that you edit down? What are some of those ways you envision being able to maybe amplify these messages?

Brian Bondy 15:37
That’s a great question. And we’re very fortunate, I’ve got some very tech savvy staff members, which is really good for me, because it keeps me out of that fray. And it’s safer that way. But, but we have consciously built a calendar of posts, Facebook, Instagram, are our primary tools right now. We are building a setting up a YouTube page where we can take these videos and but but we consciously post something three times a day, whether we’re doing a spotlight on one of our ambassadors, one of our board members, one of our members themselves, and most of the time, they’re either live video, or they’re they’re created in a real. And we do that with our ribbon cuttings, we do that with our special events. And what we’ve seen over the last two and a half years, is a significant increase in followers. But even more so a significant increase in the organic reach of our of our posts, and a lot of shares that are taking place. And that just helps get our message out to even that many more potential customers. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 16:53
I often will think that chambers are built for social media, right? I mean, you’ve put up a post and you highlight a member. So you’ve got the individual who has an interest in sharing it that their business has an interest in sharing it. So that organic reach, ideally should just, I mean, you guys should have very deep roots in the community by just highlighting your your members and board members and ambassadors, and all these different things that you just mentioned. And the

Brian Bondy 17:20
really good example is we we’ve started a business summit every September. And it’s two years old, both years it’s been a sellout. And both years, we’ve used social media at the front end to promote our speaker lineup, and then at the back end to do a wrap up. And the views range from six to 7000. Post event. And so what we’re learning is we’re building this following that they want more, they want to see what else we’re doing. And we’re hoping to push that to those that are not necessarily members right now. Yeah.

Brandon Burton 18:01
So the organic reach is super helpful, super important. But we also know these different platforms are constantly changing algorithms, and they want to make sure that you’re paying to play it often in a lot of cases. So do you guys set aside a portion of your budget to purposely promote certain posts or to have certain campaigns that you want to put put a few dollars behind to get a little more traction? Right

Brian Bondy 18:32
question? And the answer to that is absolutely, yes. And this is where we fundamentally changed how we want to operate. We know that we have to spend money to make money. And the cost per spot on social media is still relatively inexpensive. And if you’re a chamber that really is trying to promote what you’re doing, who you are, who your customers are, and who your customers could be, then even if you set aside $500 a month, you can see impact from that money.

Brandon Burton 19:05
Yeah. So for some businesses, and I say businesses rather than chambers, they can promote their product or service on social media, and they can see the ROI, right you put you know, $1 in you get $2 back. What are some of those key metrics that you guys look at as a chamber to see that you’re getting a positive return on the the ad spends that you’re putting out there?

Brian Bondy 19:32
Like question again. So ROI on testimonial is going to be hard to measure. A lot of that is we’re building awareness, we’re building confidence that the brand is one to be very reliable, and one you can hang your hat with. Well, the flip side of that is if we are doing events specific, like the previously mentioned women and Business Summit, or our banquet or for to July celebration, those we’re gonna see in potentially more participants buying tickets, more sponsorships. And that’s kind of what I look for is, especially as we are event related, are we seeing a bump in in interest? Are we seeing a bump in potential sponsor inquiries? And I would have to say that the the initial results are yes, that’s exactly what’s happening.

Brandon Burton 20:23
That’s, that’s great. Yeah, a lot of times, we’ll look at the likes and the views and shares, which are good, they make you feel good that it’s getting the message out there. But some would say that they’re vanity metrics, right, that they don’t really bring the money in. But I think it’s a little different with the chamber where you are so event focused, and, you know, getting the awareness out there driving people in to whatever those events are. So as long as you’re able to keep track of attendance and ticket sales and revenue generated from these events, I think that’s a great correlation to see that these, the ad spends and the it beyond the the money put aside for spending on social media, but the time and staff effort to to put in to build that brand on social media, it’s good to have that, that returned to be able to see that it’s worth that time.

Brian Bondy 21:19
So that the it goes back to the one of the things that I said, at the very beginning of the worst thing we could hear is I had no idea that the Chamber did that. And some of this begins to address that very issue. To fact that whether it’s a special event, or even a testimonial from a member, to have somebody come and say, Hey, I saw that, I am so glad to know that you guys have the ability to do X, Y, Z, tell me more. I just opened the door to a potential customer, a potential member sponsor. That’s where the intangible part of the promotional dollars spent begins to pay off. Yeah.

Brandon Burton 22:01
So do you know do you ever have direct engagements with posts where they say, those those kinds of words, I had no idea the chamber does this and tell me more? Are they reaching out to the chamber directly? Or is it when your membership person reaches out that they make those connections? How do you see these things kind of develop?

Brian Bondy 22:21
Yeah, that’s a great question as well. It’s interesting. We’ve had a couple that have responded in the in the chat line, hey, can you send me some more information and reach out to me, and we’ve done that, and I think that’s a terrific direct response, direct opportunity that that came up. We also do, we do our candidate forums for the various election cycles, we’ll stream those live on our on our Facebook page, and the engagement that we get from that, not always positive, but we’re getting engagement. And that’s, that’s a big part of marketing, the chamber is doing things like that, where we have engaged members and the community in the product that we’re putting out there.

Brandon Burton 23:07
And that’s a great point with streaming the candidate forums. As far as getting engagement and algorithms, algorithms like it when there’s a little bit of controversy. So if you can get the negative and positive comments going in something like a candidate form, I think that’s going to really help that organic reach and get it in front of the people that you’re hoping to reach.

Brian Bondy 23:30
So exactly, exactly that.

Brandon Burton 23:34
Well, I like asking, for chambers that are out there listening, if if there’s any tips or action items that you might offer to a chamber who’s looking to maybe take their chamber up to the next level, what might you offer to the to that organization?

Brian Bondy 23:52
A couple of things. Number one, I can’t underestimate the value of a good relationship with your local media, whether it’s a local newspaper, a local radio station, even a local television station, they they’re looking for content just as much as you’re looking to put content out there. And we were fortunate to have some really good relationships with our local media. And part of that equation is, you know, we all have smartphones that have video and audio capabilities, you’ve got a marketing tool in your hand every time you’re out there. And don’t be afraid to use it because that that’s a big part of how you can make your chamber stand out was just a moment of talking to somebody with the recording on and put it out there. Hey, remember you’re gonna love it, but be we’re going to hear you and and once again, it goes back. I had no idea you guys could do that.

Brandon Burton 24:50
Yeah. So do you ever see any awkwardness if you’re talking to a member and pull out the phone Hey, do you mind if I record I know a lot of men members love it because they know you’re going to put it out there on social media. Do you ever get any of the awkward cameras say, oh, no, I don’t know, I’m not I don’t have my makeup, you know, or whatever. Any any awkward moments that the media lighten the conversation a little bit.

Brian Bondy 25:16
Obviously, we wouldn’t be human if we didn’t have those awkward situations. The reality is, you know, people don’t think they look that good, until they see themselves and they’re like, Oh, that wasn’t so bad. And, and we’ve had that before. But for the most part, I would say, an overwhelming majority are a okay with it at the end of the day, because they know what the end result is. They’re gonna get some publicity out of it. Right?

Brandon Burton 25:42
Yeah. Yeah. No, that’s, that’s great. And just to be able to overcome that, and know, you know, there may be those awkward moments. But in the end, it’s, it’s to help that business win, right, help that individual get their message out to so. And we both die at the end of the day with that? Yes, absolutely. So I like asking everyone I have on the show, as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Brian Bondy 26:11
You know, chambers have changed so much over the last 25 to 30 years. For the most part, if I look back to the 90s. Yeah, we were pretty much networking based organizations, everything we live for was based on that, it will forward to advocacy being probably our number one focus. And that’s where chambers going forward are going to have to step their feet into into that muck. It doesn’t mean they have to take positions, but they need to be able to inform their members on what’s going on in their community in their region. Because business and government don’t always see eye to eye, the chamber is fortunate and should be fortunate enough to have the bully pulpit to be able to say, Whoa, timeout, this is going to affect a lot of people, the larger Chambers of Commerce in metro areas have been doing this for a long time, I can tell you that rural America needs to wake up and start doing this. It can’t just be about parades, it can’t just about all of the events that we’ve done for 50 6070 years, we’re going to have to get in and get a little bit dirty. And that makes boards very nervous. And it makes staff very nervous, because it’s something that we’re not comfortable doing. But all of my training tells me that if we don’t, we risk losing our members interest because the value proposition begins to decrease. And ultimately, just like any business, if we can’t show the value for the investment, we’re gonna lose them. And

Brandon Burton 27:44
well, and as we’ve talked about today, being able to have those conversations around advocacy and policies that are being put out there, it also helped drive your your social media engagement. So get it out there stand up for the for your businesses and your community. And it may cause some controversy. But that doesn’t have to be a bad thing. You can lean into that and really have some positive effects and influences out of a little bit of controversy. So

Brian Bondy 28:15
I think our members have come to expect something like that. And I think that as chambers continue to stay relevant in the in the coming years and decades, we’re going to have to continue to evolve ourselves. We can’t, you know, it’s advocacy today, it could be something totally different 10 years from now, that we all had saw that was coming, but it kind of hit us squarely between the eyes. But that’s part of how we we manifest and grow ourselves is to be aware of those trends that are coming down the pike.

Brandon Burton 28:51
Right. And I’ve seen in working with chambers and Chamber members for several years. Like you said, members come to expect the advocacy part from the chamber. And there’s been Chamber members that I’ve talked to that have expressed their frustration and disappointment that their chamber didn’t advocate for their business when, you know, XYZ happened, you know, when the road was torn up for an expansion and nobody consulted the businesses about the impact or creating a driveway for people to sell access to businesses, like where’s the chamber and you know, they created an expectation that the Chamber should be standing up for their rights and helping them be successful. So great point.

Brian Bondy 29:33
Yeah. And the hard part is, you know, if you’ve talked to a lot of chamber professionals, and that is, you know, it’s one thing to say it’s another thing to do it because you’re dealing with a lot of interior political climates within each of the communities where that may be frowned upon. And so what really becomes important is for that, that board of directors and that chamber staff to be on the same Ah, understanding that, hey, get a bloody nose on this, but we’re doing the right thing for the right reasons. And at the end of the day, used to say there’s no such thing as bad publicity. And that kind of can can live with that.

Brandon Burton 30:11
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Well, Brian, I wanted to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for listeners who might want to reach out and learn a little more about how you guys are approaching things at the Granberry chamber, especially when it comes to promoting yourself, what would be the best way for a listener to reach out and connect? Obviously,

Brian Bondy 30:32
the best way for us is through our email. I mean, that is, that’s probably the quickest, easiest and best way. brian@granburychamber.com. And of course, you can always call us My office number is 817-458-8442 to look us up on Facebook. And we’re getting ready to branch out into a few other platforms. But that it’s a good idea for if you want to see what we’re doing to take a look at us either on the web or on our social media.

Brandon Burton 31:12
Right Do I will get all that in our show notes for this episode too. And, and hopefully, as you branch out into other areas of social media, there’s going to be some cross promotion so that anybody wants to follow your Facebook page and see some of those other things that are coming on the horizon. I’m sure exactly. That, Brian, this has been great having you on chamber chat podcast with us today. I appreciate you sharing your perspective lessons that you guys have learned and promoting yourselves and the great value that comes from chambers being a little bit bold and saying this is what we do. And we’re here to show you. So thanks for for spending time with us today.

Brian Bondy 31:48
Ryan, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.

Brandon Burton 31:51
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Overcoming the Vocal Minority with Janet Kenefsky

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Let’s hear from Becky Womble, President of the Bastrop Chamber to hear about her experience with Community Matters.

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Our guest for this episode is Janet Kenefsky and Janet is the Vice President of Operations for the Greater Vancouver Chamber, overseeing the Chamber’s day to day and strategic programming and internal operations, creating structured processes for the organization to strengthen its core mission and becoming the inclusive and innovative provider of programming and resources. Janet brings over 20 years of experience in nonprofit leadership and organizational strategic development, along with a strong background in government relations and international trade development. She is the business community representative for Clark County’s Law and Justice Council sits on the lodging and Tax Committee for the City of Vancouver and recently selected for and completed the US Chamber Foundation’s workforce fellowship. Her passion and volunteerism are focused on providing greater economic opportunities for businesses and employee growth in the workplace. Janet, I’m excited to have you with us today on Chamber Chat Podcast I’d love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the Chamber Champions that are listening and to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you better.

Janet Kenefsky 4:12
Well hello to everybody out there yet my Janet Kenefsky and I represent the Greater Vancouver chamber recently the Greater Vancouver Chamber of Commerce and like many we drop the commerce but we’re still a b2b organization um, something about myself and I think maybe it goes into some of the interview today. When you look at personality wise, I am a strong Enneagram eight I’m Clifton Strengths I lead with strategic so a lot of the discussion we’ll have today falls within my my personality traits and I’ve tried to own up to him and so it might differ from from others that that I work with in the timber industry, but hopefully I’ll use that as a strength E and TJ You extrovert. Yeah, it helps. It helps guide a lot of what I do in the chamber world and be comfortable with how I lead. That’s

Brandon Burton 5:08
great. Well, it definitely will be a leadership focused episode here on the podcast today. So that lean into your strengths there for sure. Tell us a little bit about the Greater Vancouver Chamber. You mentioned you guys recently dropped the F commerce off the title. But tell us a little bit more about the chamber, Scope of Work size staff budget things you guys were involved with, just to kind of give us a little more perspective, as we get into our discussion today.

Janet Kenefsky 5:36
The Greater Vancouver Chamber so we’re located in southwest Washington, for those who who don’t know where Vancouver, Washington is. We represent a community. I’d say we’re about 415,000 that are in the Vancouver city. And then we represent around 511 512,000 that are in the county that we represent. We have approximately 1200 members, another 400 members that are part of programming, some entrepreneurship, training and nonprofit. We do have about 116 nonprofits as part of our membership. So it’s pretty large. We represent four legislative districts 12 policymakers that we work really closely with on the state level. And then we have various programs. We have nine full time staff and then an outside accounting firm that we work with. And we are a great team.

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Donna Novitsky 8:11
Hi, everyone, Donna from Yiftee here with another fun fact about small businesses. Did you know that there are 77 million people working in small businesses in the US? That’s almost half of the entire civilian workforce. But I know that you already know the value of local businesses. That is why we created community cards. They bring revenue to your members’ businesses that today is leaving your community and going to national brands and e-commerce companies. In addition to consumers we see schools, hospitals, city governments and companies buying community cards in bulk instead of buying big box store and online gift cards. Community cards keep local dollars local. For more info come to a demo or email us at sales@yiftee.com. We look forward to meeting you back to you Brandon.

Brandon Burton 9:06
Alright, Janet, we’re back. So before the break had mentioned that the topic being overcoming the vocal minority, so oftentimes, this minority, they tend to be the loudest in the community that and it may be easy to lean into the few voices that are really expressing their discontent with whatever’s going on. And think that that represents the greater whole of the business community. So I would love to hear in your time at the chambers, changes that either you guys have implemented or changes that you guys have removed. And maybe where some of the that opposition. It’s kind of surface its head from the vocal minority.

Janet Kenefsky 9:51
Yeah. So I think first of all, the vocal minority comes from passion. So we recognize that we can we can approach the vocal minority and get frustrated with them, try to push them out. But we recognize early, it is a good thing that they have such passion passion for the program passion for the chamber passion for their community. And sometimes it’s just not directed in the right way or, or they feel like they’re losing something. So we have, there was a I pulled it up here. So there was a quote that I saw on on Facebook, this was many months ago. And it just left me It says, cities that avoid change to keep a few people from being upset today. And sure that everyone will be upset tomorrow. And that’s that summed it up that that talks about, if you’re reluctant to change, because maybe it’s a couple of people on your board, maybe it’s a couple of people that are on your own, or maybe it’s your ambassador team, maybe it’s people that go to your morning networking and show up every, you know, week for free coffee and doughnuts and networking, and they don’t want to see it go. If you if you’re afraid to let those go, you’ll never be able to find programming that really benefits the wider community. So for our chamber in 2019, is when I joined. So I was able to give a fresh perspective to what was happening, what the programs I attended. And I noticed something right off the bat, there were the same people going to the events. And while to some people that might look good, like, wow, we have 2030, you know, 40 people going to this event every single month. This is amazing. But what I was recognizing was it was the same 20 3040 people going to events every single month. And mind you we’re in 500,000 people in our community, surely we can pull 2030 people, but to some you fill a room, a small room of 2030 people, it looks good. And that’s what success is. And your friends are there and everybody feels good. But remember, we’re part of economic development and opening up the tent for more. So. So I looked around at some of our events, and when new people were coming, and we were proud 20 new people registered for this event, then the next week, 20 new people 30 new companies signed up for this event. And then at the end of the month, Brandon who should be there, you should have hundreds of people there of all these new people. But what was happening was we were getting excited about the new people signing up. But the new people signing up weren’t coming back. Right. So you have to recognize that that some of the programming just wasn’t being adopted by a wider audience. And some reason they felt uncomfortable coming back or felt this is not for me. So what do we do? We cut programs, we look we ask people, we find out where are people meeting? Where are where are they doing their connections, if not at a chamber event. And so yeah, we we made a decision off the bat, to, to rebrand to just kind of reflect our community a little bit, or a lot better, and make sure that our programs shouldn’t have 2030 people, and then we should have 200 people in them. And that’s where we are today. And we can talk a little bit about that. That’s awesome.

Brandon Burton 13:09
That’s a great setup. And I wanted to circle back a little bit at the beginning and said something about these people, the vocal minority, they have a passion. And I love that that’s identified because you’d much rather than have a passion for the chamber and things you’re doing versus being disengaged. But as you come across these individuals with passion that don’t want to see these things change, how do you help redirect that passion, help them catch that vision of what you’re trying to build, it’s bigger and better. That has led to now having these events of 200 plus people in attendance. So

Janet Kenefsky 13:47
I’m going to be honest with you, and we recognize the passion, we provided an opportunity. And it wasn’t a surprise, they wanted nothing to do with it. So when we look at our our ambassador program, I’ll give an example. People in the community would say I don’t want to join the chamber. It’s a clique. It’s, you know, you hear the same words in the chamber industry. They don’t represent us too. Clicky. And maybe I didn’t know what they were talking about until I saw it firsthand. It was just it became a beast of themselves. And then when you looked at our social media, when you looked at the Chamber’s branding, over decades, that we had ambassadors that were bright red blazers that were front and center on every company on every picture, every posting on our website, it was everywhere it was read, read read, and then we started looking at some of these posts and it wasn’t about the company anymore. And the chambers we can fool ourselves by saying no, these are historic programs, the Chamber ambassador program, we can never get rid of that. Well it became a click and it became not about the companies that we were trying to promote. It became about those red coats trying to get front and center getting their picture you know taken and let isn’t less about those organizations that we were supposed to be celebrating? So when we took away that program, we and COVID helped. We offered an application process like many others, and and we had expectations out there and 100% of our maybe 2530. That ambassador said, Yeah, peace out. That’s not going to happen. We want nothing to do with it. Okay, that’s fine. And then we thought, Should we redesign this? We need to have one, right? We’re a chamber, we need to have a program. Maybe we just call it something different because the word Ambassador now in our region is not a great one, because it was cliquish. So how do you get revive an ambassador program with the same brand and the same, you know, connotation? So we thought maybe we’ll call it chamber champions, maybe we will call it something else. And then we, yeah, we have diplomats, chamber diplomats and whatnot. But then we thought, why do we need one? Yeah, why? Why do we even need one to begin with granted, we need volunteers, we know that. And that’s really the role that they serve. But as an extension of our organization, we’re very keen on ensuring that our branding our image, our messaging is exactly on point. And it’s difficult to do with ambassadors who are out there speaking for you. Right. So we have volunteer programs. And what we did is we just posted a volunteer signup page on our website, said, here are some really great programs, who wants to volunteer US Bank, Chase Bank, small businesses, we want you to show up and wear your logo on your shirt, bring your entire team. And guess what we have hundreds of people that say I want to come out for your lemonade day program, I my team wants to come out and volunteer for your golf tournament for your women’s golf tournament. So we have no shortage. And now we have passion. And now they can represent their own company while showing they’re giving back to the community. So it’s, it’s it’s a way that we’ve evolved. And I will tell you, I looked at and many chambers around here. And I would encourage you to do this. If you’re a chamber listening, we looked at the amount of administration that took part in trying to organize, get ambassadors to fill out forms and to go to locations and show their sign up and some have point systems and it took a full time staff person. And I think we had 890 email messages like in a two month period, just trying to coordinate our old Ambassador crew, to give you an example of just how intensive it is. We thought I could use that staff personnel their time and energy into something different and working on our programs and not managing people that had jobs that were now taking 110% of their time post COVID. Right. So these ambassadors remember, are part of your community and working full time jobs. So we needed to be very careful with the demands on our volunteers.

Brandon Burton 17:53
Yeah. So I love first of all, the idea of having the volunteers come and having them wear their T shirts that their logos and promote their business while they’re supporting whatever the event is that the chamber is sponsoring or putting on. I have to ask as far as the old ambassador program, it’s what kind of feedback did you get? Like you said 100% of them said, No, we don’t want to be a part of that. So was there something just that repulsive about it? Or just because it was so different? What was the what was the stark difference besides the red coat and being in front of, you know, front and center in the pictures? Yeah.

Janet Kenefsky 18:29
So. So our ambassadors liked to drink, they like to drink at events. So of course, the ambassador’s wanted to be recognized for all the hard work they did. So they wanted you to pay their membership and whatnot. But they, they were it was just very inclusive. And it turned out it wasn’t about the community again, they didn’t, it was about themselves, how could they get together? So they weren’t happy? I will tell you, they weren’t happy. They didn’t go quietly Yes, I said they pieced out but you know, they call the newspaper. One of them was on the newspaper in team so they call the newspaper a newspaper called the board and I told our staff who were very nervous because again a lot of the staff at that time didn’t like change and and they knew what the ambassador with the red coats meant to the community because they’re very visible for decades might do so not everybody knows the ins and outs of what what’s happening. So, so yeah, the the newspaper did an article on it, and it went away. So we started the year off with no ambassador program. It hit the newspaper, the announcements were made, and then nothing. No one cared brand and nobody cared. What happened. What happened was we started getting we started getting members coming out of the woodworks and when I say Woodworks, I made the Woodworks. We started getting professional organizations, accounting firms, engineering firms, legal teams, all starting to apply for chamber membership. We got a lot of emails and our team Got a lot of communication saying it’s about time. And we would never have known that. Again, they never told us that to our face, but they told us in their lack of membership. So when I say we weren’t representing the community in which we served, they were waiting for us to level up, they were waiting for us to get more inclusive, they were waiting for us to get more contemporary and represent them. And we were in a position where we had people applying to us where we used to have to go out and ask them, and they politely say, not for me. Not right now. So yeah, it it, it told us a big story. And it was a really great lesson for our staff who, who understood that you can make tough decisions. And really, you know, you can anger a few people, but the community is watching. They’re waiting for the chamber to step up and lead. And, and good things can happen from it. It’s not always bad. So you know, it’s it was a good lesson for everybody. We held our breath, for sure, trying to figure out what the community feedback was going to be. Yeah.

Brandon Burton 21:06
So I know a lot of times in the chamber world, we’ll talk about how important it is to listen to your members, which is super important. It’s important to you know, listen to data, collect data and listen to make data driven decisions. This example you gave with the ambassador program, your members weren’t telling you anything. I guess you could say data as far as participation levels, but they’re up right. Yeah, yeah, lack thereof. But what specific triggers, you’d mentioned looking at the photos of the different like ribbon cuttings and whatnot. But were there certain triggers that stood out to you guys as a chamber that says, hey, we need to address this, like, this is not working the way it’s intended? Or we’re not getting the results we’re looking for? What What was that trigger that made you guys go down that rabbit holes?

Janet Kenefsky 21:55
There were a couple of things. So I come from I have an HR background. So I look at things as are we going to get in trouble? Is this even legal? Should? Should they be drinking during during hours? What are they what are they actually providing to our other members in the community? So at the beginning, when we tried to say, Okay, listen, ambassadors, we’re going to use you to go out and talk about some of the legislative priorities, you don’t need to know about them. But just let it you know, companies know that there’s something out there and we, we got a big middle finger from that, like, that’s not what we’re doing. We’re here just to have fun, and we’re family. So there were a lot of things that told us one insurance was not if you talk to your insurance provider, and we had one on our board, who was very supportive of getting rid of this program, because they’re like, this is a huge liability. They your ambassadors as an extension of working on your behalf should not be drinking at your events, your staff should not be drinking at your events. No, you should not have a bar inside your chamber office to have drinks during board meetings. out on the golf course, we had, we had an ambassador that was drunk on a on a golf cart, taking advantage of the adult beverages that were on the course for the golfers. And that was a huge liability, because they’re getting in a car leaving. And so we’re very lucky that nothing happened. But when you start looking at the liability issues, if nothing else, the perception and the visibility of how they’re representing you. And this is your chosen group. I mean, that’s literally the word ambassador, they are you that that it just wasn’t a good look. So we needed to, we needed to put a stop to that. And that was something that was pretty black and white on on the legal aspect on the insurance aspect. And a lot of people say nothing’s happened so far. So as long as nothing happens, but it will, it will end and we just didn’t want to be around for that. So we

Brandon Burton 23:49
if it’s not broken, don’t fix it right out. There are some indicators. It’s like, no, we need to fix this before it does break. Right. Absolutely. Absolutely. So you talked a little bit about these, like networking events where you would have the same 20 to 30 people and now you’re 200 and upward from you know, at these gatherings tell us what does that look like now besides you know, you need a bigger room. There’s more people what’s changed in the messaging and attracting more participants to those events.

Janet Kenefsky 24:20
I think it’s pretty holistic when you look at at the same time we did away with programs we rebranded we were very vocal about our programming. So whereas a lot of visibility comes from chambers, ribbon cuttings, right, we put that on our social media for our chamber now it’s like less than 5% of what we do 3% of what we do, but it looked like everything that we did, right so now we’re very intentional of showing different programming different types of people that are attending our programming. Our morning networking, the coffee connections, we always wondered if you look back. Okay, so there’s a roomful of sales, people and realtors Selling to each other, you know, with a couple like how did how does that work when then we realized it was a way for them to gather, they just wanted to gather there wasn’t like real work happening or networking because they’re all salespeople selling to each other, it doesn’t happen. So that’s why they weren’t growing because people weren’t finding a need for them. So we did away with that because less and less people other than those realtors and banks and whatnot, community liaisons. They didn’t, they didn’t network in the morning, the people that we wanted, there didn’t know work in the morning. So you have to go where they’re going. Happy hours, having our business after hours, was a really good one. So when we scrapped the morning networking, you know, those 20 people who went we heard from them for a couple of weeks. And then never again, we don’t have people pounding down our door saying, Hey, when are you bringing this back? But what we did do our business after hours did grow. But like many chambers, we had an opportunity to take a look and say, Okay, what is our business after hours now? Yeah, we had 60 7080 people attending, but now we decided, Okay, how are we going to get these business after hours, month after month that finding a location and finding a host was really difficult, Brandon, our staff was going out and asking people would you please host next month, and the nominal fee was like $400, to host a business after hours. And you bring food and beverage and we’ll bring the people. And then when this transition happened when our rebranding happened when we started reprogramming, and showing that we were an inclusive provider, we were a big tent, people started coming out in droves. Coming out in droves, I’ll say that several times, because we were really surprised at the number of people coming out. So then we started looking at our business after hours and saying, here’s the deal. This is we’re undervaluing our programs in a big way we’re bringing a lot of people, we have a lot of connections, people are looking to us now as leaders. So we’re going to hold our business after hours, once a month, we’re going to charge almost $2,000 to have a business after hours. And then we’re going to bring the people and the company will invest another 1000 2000 $3,000 in food and entertainment. And we are currently booked through 2025. So we’re taking host, we have down payments for every single business after hours, 2024 and 2025. And we have half of 2026 built, built out. So they are becoming the place to be we have probably a minimum of two 300 People at some of the locations that have limits, but we’re seeing this last one, we had about 350 people in attendance and the social media is going wild on it still and we’re we’re days about a week out from it. And yeah, it’s it’s, it’s something people want to attend the vibe is there. They’re meeting new people, we’re now seeing more executives than we ever have. And when I say executives, I mean those organizations that are 20 3040 people and above, not our smaller business executives, which are very important to us. And they’re certainly coming out as well. But our board is made up of executives. So we have a high level board at our chamber, we’re very specific and who we have on there. Typically we say they’re the ones that sign the front of the checks, right. So and and they’re coming out and they’re meeting people and they’re seeing the vibe in the community. Whereas before business after hours, and some of our programming doesn’t really resonate with with top C suite of organizations. But it does now. And from there, we’re able to parlay that into now we have CEO groups, we have an executive Women’s Council made up of 80 of the top women’s C suite in the region and policymakers in addition to that, so yeah, it’s there’s a whole new vibe, a whole new energy, and with a little discomfort, came a lot of growth in rewards. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 28:50
I like to have a little bit of discomfort comes to growth and rewards. And as you’re telling the story of that experience, what stands out to me is the investment. So you said going from about $400 to host an event like that to about 2000. Plus, they’re investing another couple 1000 into food and entertainment and drinks, whatever. But that really up levels, the quality of the event, where before if you just showed up and you got a coffee and donut, there’s not much to it, you don’t walk away saying wow, that was a great event. But if the host is they’ve got a lot more skin in the game. You can bet it’s going to be a high quality event, you know, probably nine out of 10 times that people will walk away from they’ll take pictures from they’ll share it with others. It’ll spread, right.

Janet Kenefsky 29:34
Yeah, there’s a lot of FOMO that’s happening out there. Absolutely. And now we have big developers that are coming building businesses building high rises and developments that are securing us for the location when they so that they can unveil it and and attract new tenants attract so it’s, it’s for for companies to be able to showcase but other companies can come and enjoy. So I think we offer In times and chambers, we undervalue everything, we apologize for everything. We are our own worst enemy in the industry. And just one of the things that I’m passionate is about is, is stopping this victim mentality. And I’m huge about that. And if I can go to the grave, you know, fighting that it’ll be stopping the victim mentality we have in this industry.

Brandon Burton 30:23
So I know you’re passionate about pet Share, share a little bit more, if you don’t mind about stopping the victim mentality, I think it’s so important, especially in relation to this topic. Yeah.

Janet Kenefsky 30:34
So here’s, I come at it this way. Um, again, I know it can be tough at times, and we I’m okay, making those tough decisions and, you know, pull up your bootstraps, but oftentimes, and you’ve said it in a chamber, chat podcast in the past, that sometimes we, we don’t always have the executive directors with experience, right. And with inexperience comes major mistakes, and a lot of a lot of undervaluing both yourself as a leader. And because this could be your first job, out of the gate, and and it’s going to be difficult for you. And we apologize a lot. And we, we look to our our board members and others that you know, for leadership, help and experience. And we wonder why we don’t get respect, and we don’t get people coming to us? Well, it goes hand in hand, you know, people respect an organization that has a leader that can stand up and, and really understand the industry and support. And I understand that small communities don’t invest in their chamber, and you get what you get, and I get that. But what happens is a lot of these chambers, they form communities where they complain, and I get it, we all need peers to complain. But what the others do is they go, you’re right, you know, you’re right. It does suck to be a chamber, we’re underrepresented. And we’re never thanked and this is a thankless job. And, and I cringe every time I hear that, and I want to ask every chamber out there, stop it. Stop it, stop it right now. Because this is the only industry I am aware of that talks like that about themselves. It’s the only industry I’m aware of that hires a 24 year old as an executive director, first of all, who doesn’t know what they’re doing. And granted, I understand why it would be sexy, I would take it to, but then we complain about it. And we support that person for their misery. And we say You know what, if you’re going to be a chamber executive, it’s going to get, it’s going to suck, you’re not going to get paid, you’re going to be overworked, and everybody starts cheering we’re in the same boat together. And I want to say stop it. Because we you should be acting like a business you should be setting the standard. Our staff is is well paid, we have great benefits, we have huge respect in the community. We love it, we get applications to join our chamber every single week that are unsolicited. Some stalkers, I want to be a part of it. But I you know, I go back, Brandon, stop it if we can stop that mentality. Because one of the things I’ll see and I’ll give you an example, when we inadvertently want to create community, even in our chamber, peers, that’s what we’re doing is we’re creating chamber community by misery, right. But it it tells the community that’s watching, this is not an industry you want to be a part of this is not something that’s sustainable are going to grow. And then companies like ours, organizations like mine, our chambers are going to end up taking over these smaller chambers, because they’re going to they’re going to create their what they’re manifesting, right, so we need them to stay around. We need chambers to be around forever. And it’s really important that we stop that. So yeah, I’m very passionate about that. We have an example. There was a chamber I heard talking about how their board of directors were talking about them in a side meeting without them. Well, yeah, that’s a problem. And that wouldn’t happen in most organizations. But there’s there’s lack of trust there. Right. And the chamber community came out and said, You should hire a lawyer. This is ridiculous, this discrimination, you should you know, you should quit and then you should sue them and blah, blah, blah. Well, what they didn’t know was that chamber executive who was complaining about this was being investigated for embezzlement, right, so So you have a chamber executive that were rallying behind saying, we poor you, you know, you, we get it and you don’t you don’t know what others are going through. So if we can keep it positive, if we can support him with education, support him with podcasts like this, support him with with real truth and not join the pity party. I think we’re gonna do much better for our industry.

Brandon Burton 34:43
I love that I wish there was a way I could take that snippet and just share it with every chamber board of directors out there. So the next time they’re going to hire an executive, they know what to look for and to kind of give that pep talk instead of falling into that victim mentality and it’s gonna stink and yeah, we can’t afford it. as much but you know, really build them up and help them recognize the true power that a Chamber of Commerce has, like chambers have a lot of power. They’re not elected, you know, but they wield a lot of power with the connections and being able to convene people together and have a seat at the table and bring people together. So, yeah,

Janet Kenefsky 35:19
I think if you’re a chamber and your comfort level, is creating a board with your friends, and the small businesses that you’re peers with, that you’re comfortable with, that’s never a good board, you need a board that is used to strategic planning, you need a board that is used to making tough decisions, you need a board, that’s going to give you the pros and the cons play devil’s advocate, that have financial savvy, that tells you know, that secures your next 10 and 20 years on this planet, you know, so we get ourselves into real huge issues by creating boards that tell us yes, that our friends and then wonder why they turn on us and vote to, you know, vote you off the island. And we shouldn’t be surprised at that. But that’s our comfort level sometimes. And we need to get outside our comfort level, and really build a mastermind people around us that will make sure that we can strengthen an organization not through drama, not through bad decisions, but real evidence based business decisions that will help bolster the chamber industry, both professionally and strategically in the future. That’s it’s imperative.

Brandon Burton 36:27
Yeah, I love that. Well, as we begin to wrap up here, I wanted to ask you, I got a couple questions I like asking everybody I have on the show. So one is as if you have any tips or action items, for listeners who are looking to take their chamber up to the next level, you just gave a great tip about overcoming the victim mentality. But is there something else you might want to offer to the listeners,

Janet Kenefsky 36:50
I would say surround yourself with, with people that can help you with that visionary. So I recognize that through the pandemic, for example, we thrived. We had chambers across the country closing their doors, we had chambers across the country that were, you know, slashing their their prices, because you couldn’t be in person and, and giving, you know sponsors a break on, on money, we doubled our prices, we doubled our prices, we didn’t apologize for it. But also, what we recognized was I came to the table as a visionary. And I adopt that role. And that’s one of the things that I do for our chamber is build programs and kind of figure out what that value is for the for the community. But a lot of people don’t have that. And so if you don’t have a visionary on your team, and if it’s not you surround yourself with it, whether it’s on the board or a confidant, you need to surround your team with people that are unlike you. So a lot of chambers may not have had a visionary at the helm. But they had a board executive member or something that was able to step up and help them with that. So leaders come in all shapes and sizes, leaders come with all different backgrounds. You don’t have to be a visionary to lead. But if you’re not comfortable with certain aspects, make sure you have that at your fingertips. So that for me is really important. And it could be an ambassador of yours, it could be anybody that you have access to. But if you don’t like change, that doesn’t mean don’t change, it means you’re gonna have to do it in order to get more relevant, but you need to have support and others in the community that can help you manage change. That’s why it’s a whole department Change management is is a is a degree in itself. Right? So yeah, surround yourself.

Brandon Burton 38:35
Like the same says, you know, get comfortable being uncomfortable. Right, right. So, but as we look to the future of chambers, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward? So

Janet Kenefsky 38:47
I see the chambers and the purpose going forward of being the place for business, you should be there first knock on the door, there is no wrong door, when it comes to trying to get services and area, but we want to be their first request, you should be the organization that if anybody has a question 10 out of 10 people say, Oh, go ask the chamber. That’s your business resource provider. So we’re going to be a really big presence, it might unfortunately mean that we’re going to be less of the small mom and pop chambers and more of the regional chambers, because, you know, we try and level up our friends around us and all communities. But we are going to be the the resource for business for connection for advocacy work and, and I see us as being the go to for all of our legislators, if they’re going to need the pulse of the community. They’re going to be they’re going to be our best friends in the fight going forward. So yeah, the one stop shop.

Brandon Burton 39:45
I love that be the place for business. I love it. But Jana, this has been fun having you on the show. I want to give you a chance to share any contact information for listeners who might want to reach out and learn more about how you guys are doing Anything that the Greater Vancouver chamber, how would you suggest that they reach out and connect with you?

Janet Kenefsky 40:04
We have VancouverUSA.com, our social media handles our greater Vancouver Chamber. We’re on Instagram, we’re on LinkedIn, something I highly recommend for all chambers to be on so that people can easily find you. And I’m on LinkedIn as well under Janet Kenefsky. So I invite anybody, and I watch our social media channels. That’s a good way to see what other people are doing. Go ahead and start following us and you’ll start seeing some of the things that we do that might differ and might give some inspiration. I know we checked other chambers out for that same inspiration.

Brandon Burton 40:42
Yeah, I love it. That’s a great tip as well follow other chambers. Oh, Janet, thank you for setting aside some time to be with us today on chamber chat podcast, you’ve presented a really great perspective and I love the approach you guys have taken the kind of the unapologetic way of overcoming that vocal minority but doing it in a way to really up level your chamber really giving more meaning to the rest of the membership and and really, as you’ve demonstrated through these different examples, boosting the engagement of your members, this has been fantastic. Thank you.
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New CEO & Change Agent with Ali Rauch

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Let’s hear from Becky Womble, President of the Bastrop Chamber to hear about her experience with Community Matters.

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Our guest for this episode is Ali Rauch. Ali is the President and CEO of the Opelika Chamber of Commerce. While she’s celebrating just three and a half years in this role, she is not new to serving in the Opelika Chamber. She has served many years on the OPA like is 20 Under 40 leadership program board of directors as well as the Women’s Business Council and total resource campaign. In just three short years, she’s led her team to at best of the best five star accreditation to the US Chamber of Commerce raised two and a half million dollars for the Chamber’s forward Opelika good Strategic Community Economic Development Initiative and with the support from her team led a record breaking reach sponsorship campaign in 2022. She also spearheaded a comprehensive brand refresh. Additionally, she was selected to the US chambers business leads fellowship program, and is in the midst of her IOM certification all while changing the landscape and scope of services they open like a chamber offers to their community. Prior to her role at the Chamber, she worked in a wide array of industries including software manufacturing, higher education and most notably franchising and food services, where she served eight years as the director of marketing for Chicken Salad Chick vs had a hand in helping the brand grow from just three stores to 160. She brings a unique perspective to her leadership role at the chamber. Ali is a graduate of Southern Illinois University, where she graduated summa cum laude, and earned a Bachelors of Science in speech communications. She also holds an associate’s degree in communications from Lakeland College. She followed loved hope like it were her future husband, Todd chose to attend Auburn University following his military career and they’ve called up like their home ever since an Ali, I’m super excited to have you with us today here on chamber chat podcast. I’d love to give you a moment to say hello to all the Chamber Champions who are out there listening and share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little bit better. Well,

Ali Rauch 4:09
thank you so much, Brandon, it is an honor to join you today. My bio is quite comprehensive. So some of my little facts are certainly in there. But I think what I’ll do since I’m looking at your San Francisco helmet, my fun fact is going to be that I’m a shareholder for the Green Bay Packers and I am a massive fan grew up on grew up in the Midwest, actually in Illinois in the middle of bear country. But we were the one Packer family in our town. And so I’m a very, very passionate fan and very much looking forward to our opportunity to win and get into the playoffs this weekend. Absolutely.

Brandon Burton 4:50
Yeah. And I’ve been I’ve been impressed with Jordan love and him stepping right into that role and they’ve done a great job. So yeah, awesome. Well tell us a little bit about the scope like a chamber, just give us an idea of the size of the chamber scope of work. You guys are involved with staff budget, that sort of thing, just to kind of set the table for our discussion today. Yeah,

Ali Rauch 5:12
you bet. So Opelika is in the Auburn Opelika MSA. And so what that means is, if you’re not familiar with Auburn, or Auburn, or Leica, it’s in the southeast in the kind of east central portion of Alabama. So Auburn is home to Auburn University, that college town, and we are that sister city, that has long since been the kind of hub for business in the area. They’re kind of the hub for education, and we’ve been the hub for business, we’ve got a community college in our town, we have a massive amount of industry. And over the past, you know, 20 years, our city has really focused they manage our economic development. So they have focused a lot on diversifying our industry. So we’ve just got a really healthy business community in our town, we have a population of about 33,000. But if you look at the overall surrounding community, we’re between 120 and 180, depending how far you go out in terms of total population, and our chamber, although 33,000 is our town, and if we were to just really cover that, I think we would be considered to be pretty large, we have a membership of just under 1000. In fact, we are looking forward to breaking that 1000 In the next couple of months, we’ve been very, very close. And we have an annual budget of just under a million dollars. And that has almost doubled since I took on took over about three and a half years ago. And so when we talk about kind of the the massive amount of change that we have undergone, that has been part of it. And let’s see, we’ve got a staff of eight, just became a staff of eight, we started as a staff of four, now staff of eight with our most recent hire, which is a business and Workforce Development Director, which we’ll get to when you talk about some of the projects we’ve worked on. And yeah, I think I think that about sums it up.

Brandon Burton 7:17
Very good. That is exciting kind of teaser, you know at that membership growth, and then just about doubling the budget. And so hopefully everyone’s ears are perking up about what what did these changes that you brought into the chamber. And we’ve we’ve titled this episode as new CEO and change agents. So as Ali’s come into this role as we went through her bio and everything, she’s brought a unique perspective to the chamber world, and taking what she knew and working with the chamber and being able to take what she heard knowledge from the outside chamber world and kind of marrying these two together has really been a great change agent. And I’m excited to get into what some of these changes are and how you’ve been able to introduce them and just the experience that you’ve had. But I also want to just put it out there for listeners that it always can feel maybe a little overwhelming when you hear about all the change or things that you need to be doing. And so for those listening, you don’t need to do at all, you know, just listen and see what makes sense for your community. And maybe none of it is things that you need to apply right now maybe you’re already doing a lot of these things. But as we know change is inevitable. So we need to always be looking for what changes and adjustments we do need to make within our organizations to continue staying relevant. So we’ll dive much deeper into this topic as soon as we get back from this quick break.

Visit ChamberNation.com to learn more.

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Gina Rozier 10:45

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Donna Novitsky 11:13

Thanks, Gina. Wondering how you can have your own community card for free. Check out yiftee.com for next steps. Now back to the show.

Brandon Burton 11:25
All right, Ali, we’re back. I’d love to just hand you the microphone. Tell us what are some of these changes, I’m sure you’ve got a long list there that you can just barely rattle off some of these changes that you’ve helped drive since you’ve come in this role as CEO. But what are some of those more notable changes, and what has been kind of the the impetus for that?

Ali Rauch 11:47
I think the biggest change that we have really undergone at the Opelika Chamber has been just the overall direction of who we are as an organization. The chamber has been around for 82 years. So it is long standing, it is trusted. It has been very well taken care of for many, many years. But it was very much in a state of complacency. Everything was fine. But it wasn’t exciting. It wasn’t I don’t know, it just it was just there, you know, and I loved it, I was involved. So it wasn’t bad. It was all good things. It just, I come in with a lot of energy. I don’t know if you can feel that for me. But I am a very energetic, very positive. And so one of the first things that I did was to dive in, of course, you got to look at your bylaws truly understand those. But the first thing that we did was we we changed our mission or vision or core values. I rewrote our personnel manual, a ton of policies about the overall direction is what was that first major thing. And honestly, the thing that forced my hand to do that was our accreditation was due with the US Chamber of Commerce. And so this was nine months into my first year as CEO, I’ve got all this paperwork to do. And I’ve done it in my life. And so I was able to take a look at the last 15 years worth of like you do accreditation every five years. And so I was able to look at the last three applications and really get an understanding of where we’ve been. And then I took that as an opportunity and gave myself a deadline and said, Well, you know, we need a new personnel manual, when we need new HR policies. We’ve got to make sure our branding is on point. All those things were kind of sparked by that accreditation change. And so I did not ever think we could possibly get to a five star accreditation and for us to have jumped in my first time to go from four to five star was just I celebrated a lot.

Brandon Burton 13:58
That is awesome. Yeah, it

Ali Rauch 14:00
was huge. But so kind of the core foundation was a big initial change. And we change our vision to be a leading catalyst for a better Opelika. So it really widened our umbrella of what we can do on behalf of our community. While our mission actually changed to be strengthening our community as the champion for business, because we really found that people have no idea what a chamber is literally no clue. Most of the time they think we just do business after hours or cocktail parties or ribbon cuttings. And we wanted our team, our board, our volunteers, everybody to be able to have a simple, singular line that says what is the chamber, we strengthen our community as the champion for business. And so changing that was was a big moment for us and making sure that business was the leading edge element of that. It’s very, very easy to try and serve everybody. But you have to remember, we’re here to serve the business community.

Brandon Burton 15:07
Yeah. I love that just that little tagline that slogan, you can say to we strengthen businesses a champion. We’re busy for our business community. Is that right? Is that how you said it

Ali Rauch 15:18
strengthen, strengthen our community as a champion for business? Yeah, yes,

Brandon Burton 15:22
yes, I had the essence there. So that’s something that every chamber can take, though, you know, do your R&D, you know, take that simplified phrase, that’s something that your board that your volunteers that your staff that new members should be able to understand as a part of your organization. This is what the chamber does. And then from there, obviously gets into mission and vision, things like that. But I love that just having that simple phrase of what is the chamber do, this is who we are, you got that simple response. It’s true.

Ali Rauch 15:53
And one thing that was really great about that, too, is not only did we update our mission to say that, but then our work reflected that. For me, I came from the private business sector, my whole career had been in business. And I also was a marketer. And so I had this unique perspective about what businesses want. And they they are joining the chamber most of the time, to help build awareness and to build relationships on behalf of their business. So because I had that marketing perspective, and understood what they are looking for, from an ROI perspective, we changed a lot of what we offered and what we focused on, so that we could deliver what the businesses need, you know, sometimes you gotta kill those sacred cows and do things they Oh, well, we’ve always done them. But is that what your business community needs? That’s a good question to ask. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 16:47
I was gonna ask you about that, with your marketing background coming into the chamber world, I know that there’s a there’s some overlap, but there’s also you come into it with eyes wide open of this is what businesses are looking for. And here’s an organization you’re coming into that has been doing, I’m guessing a lot of the same things for a long time, and maybe needed a refresh. So being able to take that, that vision that you’ve had that experience and being able to apply it to the chamber, or there may be some other areas where you’re able to apply your marketing background into creating the identity for your chamber and, and phrases like that, that you just shared? Where else have you seen that background and marketing come in handy in this role,

Ali Rauch 17:30
literally everywhere. So you mentioned in my bio, that we did a a brand refresh, that was huge, you know, I had had been a part of brand refreshes for two different years, I built a brand from the ground up at Chicken Salad Chick. So coming in, I knew we needed that fresh face. And I had high expectations and kind of I want I mean, it needs to be relevant and modern. And today. And so redoing all of our email newsletters, all of our communication, we launched a brand new website last year, we refreshed our magazine, and that one, an ACC e communication and excellence award last year ACC which was amazing. But I think one area that is probably out there that I’ve been able to use it that is unexpected is that we created a conference, it’s actually coming up in a couple of weeks. It’s called the All Things marketing conference. It is just literally a baby that I have created, that my team has come on board and helped and we have made it happen. And and so it’s a one day JAM PACKED conference that people can attend from all over, you’re welcome to if anybody wants to check it out, go to a black chamber.com. But so, you know, like, like a regular conference, you’re gonna pay a fee to attend and include your meals, but you’re gonna listen to a lineup of speakers. And for me, I was getting questions from businesses, especially restaurants, all the time asking for my marketing expertise. And I realized I can’t teach everybody one on one. What if we were to actually teach everybody at once and this became an annual thing. And so I, you know, grabbed grabbed a few of my members who I consider to be really great marketing experts for their specific fields, pulled them together, created a committee and said, This is what I want to do, what would it look like? And so the one we have coming up on January 19 has, we’ve got two keynote speakers, six different breakout sessions, plus a bonus section session, and we’re going to teach everything from traditional marketing to digital advertising to content creation. And numerous people are not only active chamber volunteers, but also former chamber employees like we get it and our keynote speaker is a lady named Lena Trivedi. And if you haven’t heard her story, I encourage you to go to Apple TV and watch the beat The bubble starring Elizabeth Banks. It is essentially the story of how Beanie Babies became what they were. And Lena was an employee at PTI at the time and was really a pioneer of E commerce. And so she’s going to come down and speak and share her story. And, but we created that from the ground up. And now, you know, that’s the opportunity for us to serve 200 to 220. Businesses, if not more, we’ve got the room to grow. But we have an opportunity to teach our business community what they need to know to be better marketers, which is, I would say, 75% of what the businesses need our help from is marketing, because they just most of the time, don’t know what they’re doing. And, and they are an entrepreneur, so they’re passionate about what they’re passionate about, but not necessarily marketing. And so my skill set has just really come in here to create this conference from the ground up. And it’s awesome. It was just this moment of pure, like, Joy. And like, I just, I couldn’t believe it. We did it last year. And now we’re on our second year, and it’s gonna be

Brandon Burton 21:06
awesome. That is awesome. And I think that, you know, strikes a resonance with, with businesses, small businesses, especially where we had talked before we hit record, that the reason that I started the podcast is really to help small businesses that ultimately, that’s what it comes down to my whole career. And chamber publishing has been about helping small businesses and, and there’s some chambers frankly, it becomes more of a membership organization that it kind of stops there and the help, it’s hard to see that connection of where that help and support is for small businesses. And the businesses recognize that I mean, just the honest truth, as I’ve met with Chamber members in a wide variety of different chambers over the years, a lot of them have a hard time making that connection. So having a conference like this, it really offers that direct support for marketing, which is it’s a tangible thing that they can take back to their business and see positive results, see an increase in sales, see that that needle move from efforts at the Chamber is putting out there and making available these opportunities for. I also know in my background with with chamber publishing, I’m talking to businesses about advertising. So I’m seeing what their strategy will call it. And or lack thereof, or lack thereof, most of them don’t have a strategy and any advertising they do. It’s more maybe branding, you know, they’re they’re putting a branding ad out there. But there’s no call to action, there’s no way to collect any information and remarket it like there’s so many different layers that you can put on to marketing and advertising that the small businesses either they don’t know, or they don’t have the bandwidth, or they don’t know the tools that are available. And I just love that you guys are doing this. This is a this is what chambers should be doing to help small businesses be successful. So kudos,

Ali Rauch 23:04
and meanwhile, thank you, I appreciate it. Meanwhile, it’s also an opportunity for us to feature a few of our businesses that will then gain clients as a result of this conference. We sell sponsorships for this conference through our annual reach or total resource campaign. And and then we have ticket sales. So like, this is also like a revenue generating opportunity. And it’s just bigger than what chambers have traditionally done in the past. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 23:32
yeah, for sure. So, as you have helped to introduce a lot of these changes the brand refresh this marketing campaign, that magazine, there’s been a lot of things. I’m sure there’s other things we haven’t even touched on yet. As you go to introduce these changes, do you find that you have some autonomy just within the organization, you and your staff, or our most of these things? Indeed get Board approval? Or where does that threshold come at your organization?

Ali Rauch 24:05
We, I am very blessed to have a board that trusts me. Pretty implicitly, it’s wonderful. So I have a very supportive board. Typically what will happen is that myself and my team, we do a lot of things together. So this is not like the, hey, Ally’s done all this now. I couldn’t do it without them. So we, we will come up with our ideas and we’ll say this is what we want to do. New programs, all things marketing, Summit, things like that. That was just us. We decided to do that no board approval or anything like that. But with you know, the mission and the vision and things like that. That was something that our staff decided on and the set and then presented it to our board for approval. And so that was certainly a big honestly, it was very easy discussion. It was a unanimous vote. So that made it because we’re being Very thoughtful and doing our homework in advance. They trust us and support those decisions. You know, one of the biggest things that we decided to do that was very involved for the board of directors was our forward over like a campaign, which was our strategic economic development initiative to raise money. Because we are, you can’t tell I’m I’m actually sitting in my office, which was a home that was built in 1895. And I’ve got, I have turned two closets into what we now call co offices, because you just got to make it work. And we’re at max capacity. And, and honestly, we also don’t have a space that our businesses can actually use the way they need it. And so what started out as a need for more meeting space or business space, but also kind of transformed into, hey, let’s start tackling bigger challenges in our community. And so our Florida Blanca initiative raised were actually 3.1 million right now. And that’s going to enable us to work on workforce development for our region, build out some more entrepreneurship training programs, and then also move into a renovated building that will host not only event space for us to be able to host most of our own events, but there will be a visitor center, a boardroom and a business incubator and other things. And so that was very much a, I hired a consultant, we worked with power 10 to do that. But all of that the board was very involved with because I needed them to actually execute it. Because you know, you think about a lot of your board members are going to invest in something like that. But they also have to be willing to put their name and face on it. To say, Yes, we support this. So that was one that was very, very high, highly involved from our board of directors.

Brandon Burton 26:55
Yeah. And it’s awesome to have such a supportive board of directors. And I know a lot of listeners out there do have very supportive boards. So hopefully those relationships are good and cohesive and allow for that autonomy that I’ve set. I was going to ask you about the capital campaigns that you kind of alluded to there, as well as your total resource campaign. So are both of those newer things implemented since you’ve taken the role of as CEO? Or is there have had those been part of the organization before? So

Ali Rauch 27:28
our total resource campaign had actually been a part of the organization for quite a long time, I think we were in year nine, when I started, and I was a volunteer for our total resource campaign for two years prior to joining the job or joining the chamber as the CEO. So that one was long standing. However, we learned, you know, I inherited a team that had had been there for quite a few, I mean, 1415 years, they they were tenured and experienced, and also a little bit tired. And and so when some of the changes that I made, encouraged the retirement or moving on other people, you know, I’m I’m young, I’m aggressive, energetic. So I just kind of changed things quickly. And that became uncomfortable for some some people. And so when they decided to move on to other things, that was the first one, I actually got on a conversation with Jason from YG, MCRC. And he just straight up told me he’s like, I don’t know what you’re doing, but it’s not what I recommend. And I was like, Oh,

Brandon Burton 28:42
I love that. Jason. Yeah.

Ali Rauch 28:45
Well, I have to be right there with it. But it was true. We we had just been, you know, Hey, turn on our website. And that was it. And there was not strategy, there was not thought and so we are conducting a capital campaign, which is brand new, very aggressive, we need to raise $3 million happening right over here. And we started asking for money in March of 2021. That year, September of 2021. We did a brand new refresh of our reach campaign. So first, wait, no, wait, I think we maybe it might have been a year apart. But either way, we had a total resource campaign going on and our capital campaign going on simultaneously, which was stressful. But it’s doable, because typically that money comes from different buckets, you know, a total resource campaign, those dollars are typically going to be coming from your business’s marketing budget, whereas a capital campaign those dollars are going to be coming from a higher level investment perspective and you’re talking to different people to sell those things. But the capital campaign was certainly new but that reach campaign we saw We now call it reach not a TRC. But thinking of all the branding changes that we do, but we did a brand refresh of our reach campaign, which means that we not only renamed it, but we took away every like week started as if we were brand new client with Jason. And YGM. Because we realized we needed to think more strategically about what we offer and what our price points were, what the benefits were. And so although it’s been around for 12 years now, it was new brand new two years ago, because of that refresh that we did. And that’s really where we went from averaging about $175,000 in sales for the last five to six years or so, to. Let’s see, I think we got up to Oh, 368,000 that’s where we ended. Yeah.

Brandon Burton 30:56
Yeah, that’s awesome. That is awesome. Wow. So you’ve touched on a lot of things here. I can see for for listener out there, maybe that the overwhelm sitting a little bit, but hopefully, they’re taking notes and just seeing some things that might they might want to revisit at their, their chamber. But I wanted to ask you, for those listening, who are interested in taking their chamber up to the next level, maybe give them a little bit of a refresh, what kind of tip or action item might you share with them to try to implement and try to maybe reinvigorate life in their organization?

Ali Rauch 31:36
I’m gonna make two recommendations. And the first one we talked about before we pressed record, read Horseshoes vs. Chess by Dave Adkisson. That was, I was a brand new CEO just a couple months into my job when that book came out. And I read it. And it made me think big. It may he outlines the future of chambers, which, you know, we’re not going to be those if we’re going to be doing what we should be doing for the future. We’re going to be working on meaningful things, not just ribbon cuttings and after hours, and so read his book, and process and think, What does your community need? So that would be recommendation number one. And then my second recommendation, I actually is firsthand advice that I was given by Jim Page, who was the longtime CEO of the West Alabama Chamber of Commerce in Tuscaloosa. Because the first conference I went to, I just, I had so many pages of notes. And it was like drinking through a firehose, and I was like, I have so much work to do, what am I going to do? And he literally sat me down and he said, Pick 123 things. That’s it. 123 things that you want to try and work on. Nothing more, because you can, you know, how do you eat an elephant one bite at a time, you got to you got to pace yourself? You’ve got to prioritize and tackle

Brandon Burton 33:01
three bytes at a time, right?

Ali Rauch 33:03
123? Yeah. No, that doesn’t help ask you to you know,

Brandon Burton 33:09
that’s right. That’s right. Now Jen has excellent, excellent mentor and to take advice from him that that’s very wise. And, and Dave’s book, Horseshoes vs. Chess. For those listening, you know, for a long time he was on an episode and 111 when the book first came out, kind of gave a synopsis of the book and how it came to be. But it really is that book, I think, is the definition of what a chamber is or should be. And as your role as a chamber CEO or Executive Director, whatever the title is, leading a chamber really gives a great definition for what your role should be what your work should look like, and what the future of chambers looks like. So that kind of leads right into the next question, actually, is I’d like to ask and everyone I have on the show that how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Ali Rauch 34:04
I think the future of the chamber is really about doing bigger, more meaningful work. You know, for us, we have never in a million years had the responsibility of making sure our businesses have the people resources that they need to be successful. And we just a few months ago, were, you know, given the reins to lead our region for workforce development. That’s a huge job. And that’s a big deal. But there’s also opportunity for funding that comes from both state and federal levels that can help grow our organization significantly, not just as an organization, but the impact that we’re making. So I think the future is just very doing more meaningful work and thinking about that meaningful work. I think that the Chamber of Commerce And I’ve learned in this role, we have a significant amount of influence and prominence in our community. You know, I have great relationships with the mayors in the area with our state representatives and our senators, you know, our, our kickoff for our Florida like a campaign after we had raised just over $2 million was Katie Britt, who at the time was the president of the Business Council of Alabama and running for Senate. And now she’s a state senator from the state of Alabama. And so we have great relationships from an advocacy perspective that we can contact and, and talk about those bigger challenges. So, advocacy is a key part of it. But I still think that although that might always be a part of what we do, doing the more meaningful work that achieves what your business community needs, which is going to vary for everyone. But that’s where I see the future of chambers.

Brandon Burton 35:59
Absolutely bigger and more meaningful work. I love that alley. This has been a fun conversation, energetic it’s full of life. I’d like to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for listeners who might want to reach out and maybe learn more about some of these changes even from implemented and how you’ve gone about introducing them and getting buy in and all that good stuff that we didn’t get to touch on every aspect or in this conversation today. But what would be a good way for someone to reach out and connect with you?

Ali Rauch 36:31
Yeah, I I certainly welcome this was. This was almost like draining a firehose of all the things and so please don’t get overwhelmed by that I am I am here as a resource. I would love to either chat with you chat with your chamber, whatever whatever it is that I can help with. You can find me my email address is Ali a li at OpelikaChamber.com. You can find me on all the social social channel channels. You can find me on all the social channels at Ali Vice Rauch. So a li v ice ra uch. But really, I mean I’m an I’m an open book and give me a call shoot me a text my cell is 334-737-9354. And all of this can be found on my website or on our chamber website. OpelikaChamber.com. Very

Brandon Burton 37:24
good. And we’ll get all that in our show notes for this episode too. So we’ll make it easy for people to find you. But Ali, this has been great having you on the show. I appreciate you setting aside some time to be with us today on chamber chat podcast and wish you the best with the future chambers that future changes that you have to implement. They’re at your chamber and and going forward into the future. Thanks a lot.

Ali Rauch 37:46
Thanks, Brandon.

Brandon Burton 37:49
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Chambers Leveraging AI with Kaytee Lorentzen

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Let’s hear from Becky Womble, President of the Bastrop Chamber to hear about her experience with Community Matters.

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Our guest for this episode is Kaytee Lorentzen. Kaytee is the Director of Communications and events at the Greater Bloomington Chamber of Commerce. She spearheads the Chamber’s multifaceted marketing communications initiative engaging with a diverse array of stakeholders including Chamber members, the public media board and staff members. Her role involves closely collaborating with every department to craft coherent and compelling communication and marketing materials that cater to their unique needs. Beyond communications, she meticulously organizes and oversees the myriad of events that the Chamber orchestrates ensuring that they align with the organization’s objectives and standards. Kaytee has been a part of the chamber team since May of 2021, initially as a marketing and communications coordinator before stepping into the role as marketing and communications manager in January 2023, and subsequently evolving into her current position in September 2023. Before joining the chamber as a staff member, she was a member of the chamber with her photography business for four years. Kaytee holds a bachelor’s degree in journalism with a concentration in photojournalism from Ball State University. She’s a graduate from the Indiana chamber Executives Association, who’s your chamber Academy in June 2022, and is currently pursuing a master’s degree at Purdue University. And Kaytee, I am very excited to have you with us today here on Chamber Chat Podcast. I would love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the Chamber Champions that are out there listening and share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better.

Kaytee Lorentzen 3:37
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much, Brandon, for having me on. I’ve been listening to your podcast ever since I have been a chamber professional. So I was super excited to get this opportunity. You helped me grow into this position. So I appreciate that. And everyone that’s been on the podcast as well. Just a little something interesting about myself. That isn’t in my bio. If I had a you know, a separate universe life, then I probably would have been a detective. I love true crime stuff. It’s kind of weird. Much I Love it. But even growing up I was, you know, doing forensics, trying to figure out fingerprinting and putting clues together. So that is what, but I would be in a different life. That’s

Brandon Burton 4:21
That is interesting. And there’s something to that the thrill of solving a mystery. You know, my my wife, she works at our kids elementary school. She’s the front desk receptionist and every now and then she’ll come home from work and say, I should have a detective badge. Like my GED today, you know, usually it’s some you know, kid in the neighborhood that’s caused some mischief, and they get caught on a ring doorbell camera or something. So the police will bring it to the school and say Do you recognize this kid? So she solves the mysteries. But there’s there’s something to that at the thrill of solving a mystery for sure. Oh,

Kaytee Lorentzen 4:55
yeah, like watching it on television shows I’m all about okay, I wonder if this happens. Next. Right,

Brandon Burton 5:01
right. Well tell us a little bit more about the greater Bloomington chamber just to give us an idea of the size staff scope of work. The tight you know, what kind of work you guys are involved with just to kind of set the table for our discussion. Yeah,

Kaytee Lorentzen 5:14
absolutely. So the greater Bloomington Chamber of Commerce is located in Bloomington, Indiana. We are the home of Indiana University. So go Hoosiers, which is very ironic considering I go to Purdue University for graduate education. We Are Rivals so that’s really fun to be a part of. But the greater Bloomington Chamber of Commerce, we have six full time staff members and one part time staff. And all ton of interns. Currently we have one high school intern to undergrad scholar intern. So they’ll be with us for all four of their undergrad years, and two grad fellows which are also going to be with us for their whole grad program. So that’s how many we have a ton of people here. And we have about 850 members currently, Bloomington itself, the size is about 80,000 people. And then Monroe County, which is the county that Bloomington resides in is about 140,000 we say we are the greater Bloomington So yes, we do have a lot of Bloomington businesses but also more Monroe County and surrounding.

Brandon Burton 6:25
Very good that that definitely helps to give some perspective and even going through your bio just in the marketing communications as you’ve had different roles, shows you guys are you’ve got to you’ve got a good amount of staff and get a good team there to work with. So that’s awesome. Well, our topic that we’ve settled on for today is very relevant and timely for all the buzz that’s going around right now around chat GPT and AI and generative AI and so we’re gonna dive in deeper in that discussion today. Katie has done some some great presentations on this at different conferences. So we’re going to kind of tap into her her wealth of knowledge to be able to share some of that, with all you chamber pros as we as we move forward in this conversation. We’ll dive into that as soon as they get back from this quick break.

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Donna Novitsky 9:03
Howdy. It’s Donna Novitsky here, CEO of Yiftee. Fun fact about local businesses, did you know that small businesses employ 57% of the US is non government workforce. Many of these small businesses are your Chamber members, we are here to help you help them. As you heard last week, we do digital gift cards for 500 plus communities and we call them community cards. Our chamber partners get a custom gift card branded for you that works exclusively in your member stores. The program is free for you and free for your members. We even give you reports so you can tell them how much business you brought them. Sign up for a live Zoom demo with me or one of my teammates yiftee.com/demo or email sales@yiftee.com. That’s why yiftee.com. That’s it for now back to the show.

Brandon Burton 9:57
All right, Kaytee, we are back And so I’m excited to learn how you’re using generative AI and just AI in general, as a chamber professional, where you see the use cases and where it’s helped to save you time make your job easier. And does it save you time at this point? You know, or is it just the learning and everything, but it ends up making your job easier. I’d love just to hear how you’re integrating this. And hopefully spark some ideas for listeners maybe want to explore some of these aspects of utilizing AI at their chamber.

Kaytee Lorentzen 10:32
Absolutely. So first and foremost, like artificial intelligence is just this plethora of things. So it pretty much all ultimately is intended to make computers do things that when done by people are described as having indicated intelligence. So I was very skeptical at first, I’m not one of those people who typically jump on bandwagons. So in November of last year, or sorry, to it would be November 2022. At that point, when it came out, I was like, I don’t know about this chat. GBT, it kind of seems a little not in my realm. Then I tried it. All I did was just asked a few questions. And I was like, wow, I just opened the door to something that’s going to make my life so much easier, just by asking it simple questions. And the more I’ve been using it, the more I have learned how to write the prompts that are necessary for it to generate the kind of answers that I’m meeting. So for example, the one thing I use it a lot for is just rewriting a lot of our website copy. It sounds very dated, and some of its not customer focused. And that’s more of what it needs to be. You want it to say, like I asked it, this is what we currently have on our website for our membership benefits. Can you rewrite this in more of a customer focused realm or point of view, and also give some examples of why it’s important for somebody to join the Chamber of Commerce. And they will give you a full list like, a lot of the time, if you ask it for list, it’ll give it to you. And now that I’ve used it so much, it thinks that I like list all the time. So it will continuously give me list until I say please stop putting into the list. I just need a paragraph. Yeah. And then it typically apologizes. It goes, Oh, I’m so sorry. Let me fix that for you. Right, right. The big thing that I’m doing right now is just rewriting a lot of our website copy. I’ve also used it for social media copy. I’ve even asked it to create social, like a social media plan. Small Business Week was something I was like, Okay, I want to do something different. I don’t just want to say, yeah, it’s Small Business Week, let’s celebrate small business. Let’s actually make some sort of content with it. And so it was able to give me five different days of social media content that all I had to do was just pretty much copy and paste and find some graphics and photos to go with it. Yeah.

Brandon Burton 12:59
So talk to us a little bit more about rewriting the website copy. Are you literally are you copy and pasting paragraphs from your website, login in chat? GPT? Are you able to give a link to the website and say, scan this page? And tell me how how does that interface work for those listening?

Kaytee Lorentzen 13:15
Yeah, it depends on what program you’re using, and what version of the program you’re using. I know, some websites will do that. But not all of them, like I primarily use to actually btw and chat GPT for. So I use the paid version. But I don’t put a link in there. I literally copy and paste the exact information so that way I like because a lot of our content is pretty long website page. So I just was like, No, I just want this section rewritten in this point of view, and then obviously, the main thing is, I always say, double check, it’s work. Because you never know what is gonna pop out and you want to edit it. I don’t ever think that you should copy and paste directly from whatever chat GBT or you know, whatever generative AI system you’re using, you need to go in and, like have oversight, it gets you 80% of the way there. But you need to go in and edit and finesse it and make it more your voice.

Brandon Burton 14:16
Yes, so you shared your experience in November of 20 I guess it’s 2022 right when chat GPT was made public and available for everybody to use. And I remember going to Thanksgiving dinner my brother in law was like Oh, you gotta check this out. And he’s he’s a very loud in your face kind of person anyway, so he’s shoving his phone everybody’s facing you ask it a question and just very excited about it and like, Okay, calm down. You know, so I asked him a few questions and and really the responses I got back because I was asking business related questions. You know, how can I create a social media posts from my podcast or tell me about a chamber of commerce, like what Chambers of Commerce do and just that feedback I was getting from it initially. You needed to verify, you know, the stuff it was kicking out. And granted, this is Chad GBT three. So it wasn’t it hadn’t scanned, you know nearly as much of the of the web and things like that. But an example of just this last week, I’ve got a daughter in fifth grade, she came home with a math problem in her homework that she wasn’t able to figure out. And my, I think it was my son who’s a senior single as chat GPT. And, like, first of all, it seems like cheating or, and then your homework to plug it in. But like, we worked through the problem, got the answer? And then I’m like, I’m gonna try this, you know. So I asked chat GBT exactly how the question was on the homework. And immediately it spit back an answer. And it wasn’t the right answer. So I gave it some clarifying, you know, prompts along with it, then it apologize, spit back and other answer, and it never came up with the right answer. And after verifying, like more and more of the criteria with it, it kept apologizing, but then we kept giving me the same answer over and over. And like, okay, and this is still catch up three GPT 3.5. So it wasn’t the paid version, maybe that would have gotten me better results, but goes to the point of you need to verify you can’t just trust everything that it puts out as being doctrine, like you got to, you got to really read it, you got to make sure it’s accurate. And some may say, Well, does that really save you time then? So how would you approach that with if you need to verify everything? How does that aspect work and time saving, or you know, the application into real world scenarios?

Kaytee Lorentzen 16:36
I think it varies on what you’re planning on using chat GPT for so if you’re using it for research, that can definitely still take you some more time, it hasn’t been able to scan everything, and it’s still learning, it’s still, you know, it’s still a child, and it’s learning new tech. Yeah, it’s still a baby, it’s still trying to figure out what it’s doing. But for me, I use it more for things that I know are fact based, like hard numbers type of thing. I use it more for like the colorful language. For an example, there was one way someone emailed us and I was trying to explain to them, I don’t think you understood what I was trying to say. But also saying it in a much better way. Because right, there are some times where your brain just you know, when that clicker icon just keeps going on a blink word screen. That’s how I felt with this. I was like, I don’t know how to say this. So I just asked chat GPT. And it gave me a much better way of writing it. That actually was exactly what I wanted to say. But I just didn’t have the words or the sound mind at that point. I think it was like 430 on a Friday or something. And it put it all together and flowed nicely. So that was something I more use it for is earliest for chatty BTW I use it more for that aspect. Even if you asked it to give you a source, sometimes it makes it up. So but at least if you can look up and see if that source even exists. And that sometimes works. I think I’ve only used it a few times with statistics. And then what I’ll do is I’ll just copy and paste this statistic that it gives me and look up where it is in Google. Yeah, just to verify, make sure that’s fine. But yeah, it varies, because I’ve also heard similar situations with homework, where someone it was I think it was NPR that I was listening to. And they were saying, Well, my daughter was doing homework. And they and I’m a history major. And it asked if this particular person in history was pro separation of church and state or against it, and it gave the wrong answer. And they were like, That’s not right. So I if you ever ask it fact, based information like that, then I would at least just copy and paste what it gave you and ask it as much question as you can to get where they got it from, quote unquote. And then you can find it on the internet pretty quickly. So

Brandon Burton 19:10
is there a value to giving it feedback to say that’s not a correct answer? Or yes, I’m gonna challenge the answer a little.

Kaytee Lorentzen 19:18
I think so because it’s learning based off of what you are giving it as well. So like if you there’s even after every single prompts that it gives you, was this, what you were looking for? Was this not and then there’s a thumbs up, thumbs down and you just put that in there it actually is teaching it. That’s another way that it’s learning on giving the correct answers. So if other people start asking similar questions or something like that, it’s it’s now learning based off of our responses, right, right.

Brandon Burton 19:49
And I think you know, although some of the information you get may not be totally accurate need to verify if you’re having some writer’s block going on or looking for ideas Just to be able to put a prompt in and receive, you know, a ton of ideas and, you know, pretty much instantaneously, things that will get those creative juices going in your mind, again, that I’ve heard it said that it’s not to replace your own thinking in your own mind, but it’s to supplement it’s to add to what you’re already doing. Yes. Yeah. I know, in an example that I had, there was a chamber professional that I mentioned, how much they enjoy the podcast, and you know, very nice email about what they have appreciated. So this is great. Would you mind putting this as a review on Apple podcasts? And they try it and try it couldn’t figure it out? Like, can you tell me how to leave a review? Like, let me ask Chet GPT. So I just did, how do you leave a review for by and just copy and paste it? And I could have typed the response and said, Here’s how you do it. But to look up each, you know, the website and give a link and here and there and back and forth? Just that plug it in chat? GPT it was all right, copy, paste, send and it was done. And it was easy. It was easy.

Kaytee Lorentzen 21:05
Yeah, as long as you just review it and be like, Yeah, that’s exactly how you do it, then you can just copy and paste, which is nice. And that’s kind of what I’ve done. Even for scripts for videos that we do. I’ve asked it to make it you can even ask it. Can you make this more of a TED Talk style, and it will completely read rewrite it? I did that actually the first time I presented this at the Indiana chamber Executives Association Conference. Hi, how do you write my intro? I didn’t like how it was like, have a we tried TED Talk style? Yeah, very different. It was, it almost felt like when you were reading it out loud, exactly how it starts. Right. Any TED Talk? So

Brandon Burton 21:50
maybe let’s talk about that a little bit about the prompts that we put into to any AI, generative AI assistant. What kind of things do we need to consider? Because I think we’re very much a lot of the public is very much still in the mindset of Google, right? You put in? What is this? He put in a question, get a response. So talk to us about a prompt, and maybe becoming a prompt engineer, so to speak.

Kaytee Lorentzen 22:17
Yes, yes. So that is something I’ve definitely been trying to hone my skills on, is learning how to create the best prompts. I always say, garbage in, garbage out. So whatever. If you give it like subpar information, it’s going to give you a subpar answer. So you want to make sure that it has as much information as you can possibly give it. Like if you’re trying to make a all do something pretty simple, like a social media post, if you tell it your audience exactly who it’s supposed to cater to, you can even tell it more of like your customer persona, it will give you a much better answer and a less generic answer, it’ll become more personalized. So that’s a lot of the time why I copy and paste a lot of our content when I’m asking it to rewrite it. So I say take this and move it to something more like this other thing. So that could be you know, saying it needs it needs to have more colorful language, can you make it sound more professional, this needs to be more towards small business owner, not necessarily the big business, so you can change up exactly what you’re wanting it to do. But the more specific the better it is.

Brandon Burton 23:37
Yeah. So as you’re given that response reminds me I had recently read a book called The AI whispers method. And it it’s a, it’s an AI generative fiction novel. So it takes the whole hero storyline and plugs it into to teach you how to use AI. And it talks a lot about generating prompts. And even asking, like, for example, with Chet GPT, to act as a math teacher or act as a math professor to give me an answer to this problem or act as a sports historian and tell me why, you know, this scenario is happening or so being able to get that context of act as if or act as a different, you know, expert in different fields, it’s able to tap into different resources and really understand what it is that you’re looking for. So as I played around with that there’s a lot of power in the act as prompt when you plug that into chat. GPT

Kaytee Lorentzen 24:45
Absolutely. That’s actually something I do for our customer journey type of thing. I said to chat GPT act as if you are a brand new business. You’ve never heard of the Chamber of Commerce. You We are interested in it because someone mentioned that it’s a great thing to join, why should they join? What are their pain points? What are their objectives? What are the rebuttals to those objectives? So you can really start tailoring your content to better address their pain points and why you’re the solution to their problems.

Brandon Burton 25:19
Right. I love that. So let’s, let’s maybe circle back a little bit more to the generative AI. Discussion. So you mentioned you, you’ve used it to rewrite website content, you use it for social media posts. What other applications are you seeing in the chamber world, specifically for using generative AI? That

Kaytee Lorentzen 25:40
is a fabulous question. So for me, I have been using it more obviously, for the marketing aspect of it. I’ve even asked it to write event descriptions. So what makes people come into the event more? What makes it more appealing, besides just saying, you know, come to this chamber event at this day, on this time at this place, we look forward to expanding your network hope to see you there. It sounds the exact same every single time. So how do I change it up and make it sound more exciting? What makes that chamber member have to be at that event. So I use that a lot for to change up the descriptions. I’ve also asked it to make correct like full social media campaigns, not just the captions itself. Also, like I mentioned earlier, the market research different emails to members. So like how, like, if you’re saying I want people to fill out this survey, what makes someone fill out this, if you ask to attribute it, right, this email, enticing people to fill out this survey that doesn’t. Obviously, we’re all nonprofits, we don’t have a whole lot of money to give out as an incentive. So without incentives, I’m creating different types of plans for customer journeys. The one that I’ve used the most often is writing up ours, we have a sponsorship book that we do all at one time, kind of like why GM does. And so I’ve asked it to rewrite our sponsorship book and why people should sponsor it and why it’s important to sponsor it. And then lately, I have noticed AI disclosures on your website, writing a disclaimer for your website, we actually didn’t have quite a few like the privacy policies, those things that you’re supposed to have on your website. And so I was like, I’m gonna see if Chad GPD can come up with something very like simple and then obviously run it by our lawyer, just to make sure everything sounds great. But it really helps take out a lot of the guesswork for us. We didn’t have to do you know, how many hours of research trying to make sure that what we had in there? Would it be? Sound for us to use, even if it’s just like a blanket one? I think ours is our AI disclaimer is probably two paragraphs, just saying, you know, we use AI, there are things that may be generated by AI that come out here, but there’s always human oversight, ultimately, is what it says but in some more legalese term. Yeah.

Brandon Burton 28:15
Like that. So I guess that brings up a good talk at a good point to talk about as well, where I know I’ve been at chamber conferences and breakout sessions you you lead some these breakout sessions, where we talk about AI? And the question always comes up as far as the legality, the copyright issues if you’re especially like image generation, right? So if you’re asking generative AI to produce an image for you, who owns the rights to that, is there copyright issues if you’re bringing in certain elements into that? So if you would speak a little bit to the legality and regulations around AI and what we need to kind of be aware of and kind of look out for as we kind of navigate through this new world of artificial intelligence?

Kaytee Lorentzen 29:03
Absolutely. This is definitely something we need. As chamber professionals. If you’re using AI just to keep up to date on there are quite a few websites that you can track legislation. And there’s a lot on AI. Currently, right now, as of August 30, of 2023, the US Copyright Office issued a notice of inquiry in the Federal Register on copyright. And AR pretty much just means they’re going to be studying it to see kind of whether legislation or regulatory steps are even warranted, and also just steps to advise Congress on any legislation that does come through. But anything right now made by something other than human is not protected by copyright. So if I like the API disclosure I was talking about I can’t if someone else wanted to copy and paste it and use it, they legally can. And I can’t cry that that’s copyright. So that’s it. One thing that we have to look at, right now a lot of people are getting frustrated with the image portion of it, I haven’t used that aspect too much, because I still feel like there is a lot of stock photo that I can use in that aspect. And I don’t need to just create an image that we don’t have. But other people are saying that it’s very unfair to the artists, which I do, as someone who’s a photographer, I get that completely. And it takes, you know, scanning my work to use someone else’s yet that’s not exactly something I’m a fan of. But I am interested to see where that’s going to be going and legislations and any what Congress is planning on doing on that. And I do think that they’re in a very interesting position right now. And I think they do need to take that whole issue very seriously, that AI is here, and it’s going to, it’s, you know, people are still scared of it. But it was very similar to like, when the internet happened, it, everyone was scared of it, it was this big thing that everyone’s like, this is going to change the world. It did. But now if we look back, if you don’t have a website, you’re not really relevant. Or you’re not considered trustworthy. So if that’s something similar what AI is gonna do, that’s, I’m just very interested to see where it’s gonna go, what regulations we’re gonna have. So just keeping up to date, making sure that we are using it legally, then that is something that we do need to do, and do our due diligence on it, as you know, people that are in the community seen as a trustworthy and leader.

Brandon Burton 31:42
Yeah, for sure. Now, it’s definitely important to keep that on the forefront with any legislation that comes out. But I think to your point with the internet, you know, if you didn’t adopt the internet and have a website, now, you’re kind of irrelevant. And I see a very similar course with AI. And just the AI technology has been adopted quicker than any other technology in the history of mankind. I don’t know, besides like the fire, maybe I don’t know. But. But as far as the technology goes, it’s been adopted very quickly. And I could easily see in five or 10 years maybe doesn’t even take that long, that there’s going to be two types of chambers, right? There’s going to be the ones that use AI and the ones that are no longer around, essentially, because they’re not relevant. And they’re not able to really leverage the power that comes from Ai, especially when you’re dealing with limited budgets, and being nonprofits and all that. There’s a lot of leverage. Yeah,

Kaytee Lorentzen 32:38
and I completely understand why it would seem intimidating or scary at first, because I was in that same exact boat. But as soon as I tried it, I was very surprised at the fact that I felt like it was something that anyone and everyone can use. Even if you’re just asking simple questions like, can you give me a recipe for a very simple meal like something, it’s something you can just play around with and have fun. And the more you use it, the more you find things that you can use it for? Yeah,

Brandon Burton 33:09
I’ve heard people will take, you know, just random ingredients they have in the refrigerator and say I’ve got these seven ingredients, give me a recipe of something, I can make it it’ll do it. So where would you suggest somebody gets started with a journey in AI and just kind of getting their mind wrapped around it? Yeah,

Kaytee Lorentzen 33:28
I would say just pick up like one or any of the generative AI tools that we have available. Google’s version is Bard. And then there’s chat GPT. There’s all just, obviously, Google, because Google or cert, go in your search engine, and ask it for a generative AI tool, and just start asking it questions. And the more you do it, the more you’ll get better at asking the I don’t want to write questions, but better questions, you refine the questions, you refine the questions to get the answers that you’re looking for. And then you start, that’s when your wheels start turning and figuring out where can I apply this in my professional life? Right.

Brandon Burton 34:10
So I didn’t give you a heads up that I was going to ask you this question. So if we need to edit it out, we can but I’m curious. What are you excited about on the forefront that you see coming with AI in the next weeks, months years?

Kaytee Lorentzen 34:24
I’m just excited to see the evolution of where it’s going. It just reminds me of like when the first iPhone came out, like and just seeing how it evolves and where it’s at now that it’s pretty much a part of our daily lives. If you’re an Apple user, obviously. It’s something that I am just excited to see where it’s gonna go. I’m excited to see how our legislation will take this and you hopefully use it for the good obviously, there’s always some bad actors, but I think Oh, For all this is going to be something that’s extremely well received in, in our world. Right?

Brandon Burton 35:07
I think there’s just a world of opportunity available. And quite honestly, I don’t know if legislation can keep up with the trends and the way things will develop. But we need to be plugged in and not be burying our head in the sand pretending like it’ll go away because it’s not going to go away. Well, Katie, as we look to the future, actually, let me back up before I ask that question for a chamber who’s listening who wants to take their chamber up to the next level, what kind of tip or action item might you share for them to try to accomplish that goal?

Kaytee Lorentzen 35:42
I would say, the tip to use is embrace playing. I know that sounds so weird, but embrace that it’s something new embrace change, it will make a world of a difference. Because I can even tell you even in my office, as soon as people started embracing this tool, it was a game changer. Like our membership director, she now uses that a lot to help personalize each individual sales email, instead of just having like this copy and paste mentality of the same type of email, she can personalize it a lot more saying, this is the industry this person is in. And now she says that she really can’t go without it. Our operations manager uses it to help create some Excel documents, like it’s different things, the more you play with it, and embrace the change that it can bring, the better I think we’ll all be.

Brandon Burton 36:41
Absolutely, it reminds me. Last year, our church, we were putting together a fundraiser for our youth program at church. And I was trying to get the text together for the flyers that we’re gonna go out and promote on social media and everything. And I was just having the hardest time trying to make all the words fit on this flyer without being crowded and like telling what we’re trying to accomplish. And I told my wife, this Super Chat GPT will say I plug it in, give it the prompts, and it spit back and answer those beautiful, perfect, and we use that going forward. Like if I would have just done that from the beginning, it would have saved me so much time and headache and just beating my head against a wall trying to figure something out. That wasn’t coming to me. And it was it’s a great tool. So I would encourage everybody to embrace the play and embrace the change. Because I think initially, you and I both had this similar initial reactions I get I’ll know about this chat GPT steps, the more you get into it, you see more and more applications where it can assist you and make your life a little bit easier. So as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Kaytee Lorentzen 37:53
You know, it’s funny as I was like, you know, how do I answer? Because I knew this one was coming, right? Because I hear from everyone. So I asked chat GPT what they thought. And it gave me a gave me a list of nine different things. But I would like to kind of summarize what because a lot of it is things that I thought of but I was like how do I make this sound? Great. I do see a lot of the future of chambers using innovation and technology adaptation, obviously, for me using AI and GPT. I do see that. And I think with that we will become leaders in the business space in general. I think it will bring forward I’m trying to think of the correct word that I want to use. But it will bring forward this leadership of how the standard should be set on business and how they can embrace it as well. And I think that we’ll have a lot of Gosh, I’m trying to figure out

Brandon Burton 39:04
here, but you can plug it as chat GPT

Kaytee Lorentzen 39:09
Pretty much yeah, just focusing on the technological changes focusing on small business and it’s going to just help leverage that and just, you know, promote this business atmosphere that I think will be that will occur encourage all of that.

Brandon Burton 39:33
Yeah, I can definitely see that and we need to be embrace the innovation that comes with technology. Yes.

Kaytee Lorentzen 39:43
You pretty much said exactly what I was wanting to say. All

Brandon Burton 39:45
right, well, whether you know it or not, you said it at some point in there because I wrote it down and he said well, Katie, I want to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for listeners who want to reach out and learn more, maybe Do you see some of the slides or anything you’ve shared at different conferences or whatever you’re willing to share and help out with them? What would be the best way for someone to reach out and connect?

Kaytee Lorentzen 40:09
The best way is probably through either email or through LinkedIn. So my email is just klorentzen@chamberbloomington.org. And my LinkedIn, you can just find me, Katie Lorentzen, and I spell it differently. So I’ll spell it here for you guys. It is Kaytee and then my last name Lorentzen. And either a message on either of those are typically the best way to get a hold of me just because I am all over the place. And my phone is always on me. So those two apps right there for me.

Brandon Burton 40:45
That’s perfect. And we’ll get that in our show notes too. So people can pull that up and have easy access to reach out. But I appreciate all the value you offered to listeners today here on chamber tap podcast for sharing your experience of exploring and being innovative using generative AI and I just, you know, it’ll be fun to look back at this episode a year from now and be like, Wow, things have really advanced in the last year. So I know I’m excited. Yeah, but thank you for being with us today. This has been a fun and enlightening conversation. So thank you.

Kaytee Lorentzen 41:18
Thank you for having me.

Brandon Burton 41:19
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