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3P vs. 3C Chamber Debate with Jill Lagan

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your hosts Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community. You’re joining us for a special episode as part of our 2023 ACCE Chamber the Year Finalist Series.

Our title sponsor is Community Matters, Inc. With nearly 20 years in the chamber industry and over 100 media awards presented to their chamber partners, community matters provides the R&R that every chamber needs, revenue and recognition.

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Becki Womble 1:03
I’ve been using Community Matters for probably six or seven years now. And in a previous life, I sold commercial printing so I can highly recommend Community Matters because it’s a complete turnkey job for any busy chamber exec and it’s a wonderful, beautiful printed product whenever you’re finished. And I just I’m very sold on Community Matters. And with a printing background I just big endorsement from me.

Brandon Burton 1:44
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Our guest for this episode is Jill Rowland-Lagan. Jill is the native of Boulder City, Nevada, and she is an experienced entrepreneur and community leader and has been the Boulder City Chamber of Commerce CEO for over 20 years. Driven by the need to see others succeed. She takes pride in providing each chamber investor with their time and consideration so that they are empowered to surround themselves with success as well as the CEO. Her goals include building the business community to be economically strong, and setting the chamber at the forefront of that by being a bright light in Boulder City that provides excellent and community service to visitors and to those doing business in Boulder City. Jill, I’m happy to have you with us today on Chamber Chat Podcast, I’d love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the Chamber Champions who are out there listening and share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better.

Jill Lagan 2:54
Well, thank you so much for inviting me to be a part I am truly honored. And I have an interesting tidbit that I’m very, very proud of and honored to say that my daughter is an Olympian, she is an Olympic shooter. She shoots air pistol standard 22 as a wonderful female athlete for the United States. And so she was able to participate in the Tokyo Olympics. We were unable to be there. So it was a little little disappointing. So we’re kind of excited that she is again in the running for the Paris Olympics. So Summer Olympics next summer. And that’s one of my all time favorite things to share.

Brandon Burton 3:35
That is fantastic. I wonder. So last summer, our family took a trip to through Colorado and Utah. And we stopped at the Olympic Museum, the new and Olympic Museum in Colorado Springs. And they have a table set up where you get to meet an Olympian and there was a Olympian doing the same event that your daughter is somewhere has your daughter been there manning the set the booth there at the at the Olympic museum. I wonder if

Jill Lagan 4:04
she trains at the Olympic training center there. I don’t know if you went to just the museum where if you actually went to the Olympic Training Center itself, and she does work in both of those different locations and has the honor of being able to sit there at the table and get to visit with people and take them on their tour. And so yes, so she lives in Colorado Springs and has been doing some great things for our for the United States. I’m very proud of her.

Brandon Burton 4:31
That is awesome. Well, thank you for sharing that tidbit. You gotta be a proud moment. But why don’t you take a few moments and tell us a little bit about the Boulder City Chamber just to give us an idea of the size of the chamber scope of work staff budget, just to kind of give us some perspective before we get into our topic of discussion today.

Jill Lagan 4:53
So here in Boulder City, we’re just on the outside of the Las Vegas Valley and we are considered a rural community we have just over 14,006 33. And so that was the last demographic count that we had, that we participated in. And in this great community, we actually are pretty phenomenal in our space because we are over 204 square miles. And the idea then of having such a small population, but be able to protect our resources, and that’s something that this community it feels very strongly on. We have a control growth ordinance here in our community, we also have no gaming, we are the only municipality without gaming in the state of Nevada, which makes us a little bit different in the fact that we don’t have those casino, the tax revenue coming in and flowing into our community. So we work pretty hard at being unique, and then making sure that we take care of each of our businesses, because they respect that factor. And it provides such a great quality of life for our residents as well. It’s also a wonderful way for tourists to be able to have the nightlife and the fun of the Vegas valley and then have a little bit more of that outdoor recreation experience here in Boulder City. So we spend a lot of time promoting that our chamber itself has 438/39 members right around that. And we’re really honored that each and every one of them gets a lot of our attention. We pay attention to making sure that they feel like they are heard and that their voice matters. And so we’re grateful for that word, just just over 250,000 on an annual basis as our budget. And we spend a lot of time doing a little bit of everything. So we also operate the economic vitality Commission. It is a nonprofit that we’ve formed because our city does not have an economic development division. And so we operate as that for the city. We also have the Tourism Commission. Like I said, we operate the Nevada State Welcome Center here in Southern Nevada. And so as people are coming across the new bridge, that is the right there at Hoover Dam, as they come from Arizona into the state of Nevada, we are kind of that first stopping point. And so we are grateful that we are able to introduce them to Nevada and encourage them to travel all throughout the state. And so it’s I have one staff member, she is an amazing office manager. And we’re really grateful for her. And then we wouldn’t be able to operate without our 25 plus volunteers. And they are the ones that help us man the phones and operate the in the lobby at the reception desk. And then of course, also for all the different special events, I have a board of nine, and they’re all very active. And I’m grateful for them. And I’m also grateful that we have people who are kind of on a waiting list to be able to be on our board to be able to participate. That’s always that’s been a big deal for me. And so I’m grateful that they see the relevance and the importance of the chamber in Boulder City. All

Brandon Burton 8:02
right, well, that definitely helps to paint the picture and you guys are very involved for you and one other staff person. So like you said heavily relying on those volunteers who step up and help out and, and you guys are managing it well. It seems to be able to keep all those things afloat.

Jill Lagan 8:19
We’re trying we’re doing the best we can. And like I said, our volunteers are heavily recognized, we always want to make sure that they realize how important they are. And I think they even see that. Without them. We would not be operational. And I know that they’re very proud of the work that they do because we do great work here. Absolutely.

Brandon Burton 8:39
So the topic that we decided to settle on for our conversation today. The the title of this episode might seem a little contrarian. So we’re talking about a three P versus a three C chamber debate. And for those who have been in chamber role a little bit know the difference between a three P chamber and a three C chamber. And we’re going to get into a discussion about why we may not want to just totally neglect the three P’s as we move forward with chambers but we’ll get in deeper in this conversation as soon as we get back from this quick break.

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Brandon Burton 12:12
All right, Jill, we’re back as a tease before the break there, we’re going to be talking about three P chambers versus three C chambers and maybe the debate that comes up with that, but specifically, from the perspective of a smaller chamber. I think for some of these really big, maybe reasonable regional chambers or larger cities, it’s easy to get on board with the argument of a three C chamber and it makes a lot of sense. But for a smaller chamber, I think there’s and I think we both agree there’s still some value in some of those those three keys and being you know, involved there more locally and and doing some of those traditional things chambers have done. You mind sharing some of your thoughts from your perspective as a chamber of you plus one other staff? I would put you in the smaller chamber category. But how do you see that debate with the three P versus three C?

Jill Lagan 13:08
You know, I am a huge advocate of three C’s and I always will be having been a former board member with the W the Western Association of chamber executives. And still currently on the foundation there, I absolutely believe in the work that is being done and in the idea that many chambers need to relook at what it is that they do their performance. And whether they’re doing the parades, pageants and pancake breakfast, for the right reasons. Because I believe that you can still be a three C chamber, you can still be that champion that convener, you can still do those great things. But I think that in some of our rural communities, especially the the person that leads or the the entity that leads that organization and that community with those pancake breakfasts, those grades, those pageants, those things that make that community special, that might drive the tourism to that area that might create that quality of life. I think in those communities, it’s very valuable and still very relevant for chambers to be a part of that. I will say that I truly do believe that that collaboration is what makes it important for chambers to understand, what are they good at? You can’t be good at everything. You can’t do everything 110%. So what can you do that you do really, really well. And I do believe that in some of our smaller areas and smaller communities that they still need to do the peas and the C’s. And it means that for smaller staff, we kind of have to be on top of a lot more than some of the larger metro chambers. They have such they play such a key role and I I feel strongly about what it is that they do as well. But we see that in many of those communities. They’re really taking a larger role in the political side of things and Government Affairs and For me here in my region, I am so grateful that we have the Metro Chamber, the Vegas chamber, the Henderson chamber, because I don’t have the time to stay on top of some of those things. So I, I kind of have to glean from them some of that information. I’m grateful for that. And so I see where their relevance level lies. Here in my community. However, if we weren’t doing the Christmas parade, there will not be activities that are happening in centering around that time. And that’s where we bring people into the community to stay a little bit later to shop in those shops to provide those retailers some of that opportunity as well. And so I see relevance in both locations, large, small, but I also see the importance for each chamber to determine what it is they do best and what it is they can do to remain relevant in my particular community. I have to do PS MCs.

Brandon Burton 15:51
That’s right. So it’s not a it’s not a matchup necessarily of the peas versus the C’s. But it’s the peas and the C’s. I was going to ask you about how you work with your regional chambers and Metro chambers to especially on those areas of advocacies and public policy and things like that. How are those relationships fostered? How do you develop those and, and really, I’m asking this because I know there are a lot of newcomers into the chamber world who typically will start at a smaller chamber. And they need to know how to build some of those relationships. And to really lean into that advocacy side, even though you may not have the staff and the bandwidth to take it all on yourself.

Jill Lagan 16:35
Well, because I don’t have the staff and the bandwidth, I am really a champion for making sure that you utilize your your key partners. And for me here in Southern Nevada, that means Vegas chamber Henderson chamber, they are really my go twos, as well as our ethnic chambers, I don’t have the ability to formulate an entire Hispanic Chamber, Asian chamber or urban chamber, but I have got some really great friends and other CEOs that do that really well. Why would I want to reinvent the wheel or even attempt to do it in a halfway manner, I very much want to lean on those people and collaborate. And it makes us stronger when we are partnering with those other chambers and see them as a in the collaboration sense versus in some kind of a competitive sense, because I really do think that we’re all stronger as we’re as we bridge together and our voices stronger. When we’re all together. We really noticed that here in Southern Nevada with our different legislative sessions. And when it when it stated that the chambers have this opinion, that speaks volumes to those elected officials and those policymakers who are worrying about what does that do to the business community? And how does, how is that impacting some of the residents that are a part of those communities. So I truly believe that those partnerships and collaboration are key and essential. And I’m very grateful that we’ve always had a great relationship with our partners in the Vegas valley. And I know that in some communities, there’s an you know, we’re we’re getting to the point where a lot of the the chambers and who they represent and the communities they represent are all merged, right. And so in some of those areas, we have to think of, it may not be that a small chamber is small because of the rural area. But small because they’re the people that they represent are in a small geographic section, even though they represent a small, larger community. And so not all small chambers are that because of the population, it also has to do with the region that they represent. And it’s even key for them to be able to be a part of what the other chambers are doing, and making sure that we have a stronger voice together.

Brandon Burton 18:54
Absolutely. And I would even argue that the sense of community and in what communities are has changed, as the world has gotten smaller. It used to be that you lived in a community because you worked in the community and you went to church and that community and your kids went to school in that community and and now this community can mean county wide, it could mean you know neighboring communities that you commute into and whatnot. So being able to collaborate with those neighboring communities, if you will, that to use that term a little more loosely, I guess. It’s just being open minded to being able to see where those opportunities are to make a stronger overall community. So I think there’s a lot of advantages, though, to for a smaller chamber where you had mentioned the Christmas parade really draws people to your community and allows for more shopping and businesses stay open later and really being an economic driver at that time of year. What are some of those other advantages that you see as a small chamber and maybe some of those is a piece that you hang on to.

Jill Lagan 20:02
So I in going back to that specific example, not only are we able to allow for that impact that comes in from the financial side, but we also take that time to recognize some of the special people in our community and to highlight great businesses, the businesses of the Business of the Year to talk about and spotlight some of those different businesses that are doing great things, maybe spotlight the nonprofit that has done something phenomenal. And so it gives us an opportunity also to highlight those key individuals in our communities that are doing good things and are doing the things for all the right reasons. And so also to recognize and acknowledge elected officials who are paying attention to the business community. So we we kind of balanced the idea of making sure we safe thank you and recognize those things that are taking place, at the same time as obviously creating that economic boon for that that short period of time, we see especially here in our community with the fact that we have a control growth ordinance. We need those many population explosions on the weekends when we’re doing special events. And I realized events are very, you know, they they take up so much time, they’re time consuming. Within staff, they’re time consuming in my thought process. So I’m not able to think through, you know, maybe something else a new program, but they also are very valuable for us to bring people into this community. And so I know that for us, it’s important for us not only to recognize the things that are going on here, to spotlight that with the different media that are paying attention because of special events. But also for us to acknowledge the good that the citizens here are doing. And whether we recognize them at a special event, or we’re providing them with a little bit of additional media attention. Those types of activities are secondary, but they are still very valuable. And I think that that’s one of the reasons that we’ve been so successful in having those events, bringing those people together and staying informed on who and what and the things that are going on in the community. I know that it takes time to have those planning meetings. But in those planning meetings, a lot of activity are going on, I might be able to find out a little bit more about what their needs are. They’ve got volunteer needs, they’ve got, you know, they’ve got money for a scholarship, but they’re not getting any kids to participate, that gives us the opportunity to reach out to the schools, let them know that some of these different programs that are available and making those connections. And so we can’t get to that C word of connectivity and convenience those people with we’re not if we’re not doing those things in our smaller communities.

Brandon Burton 22:46
That’s right. And I love that was you are getting together to plan a big activity, parade or whatever it may be, to, you know, keep your eyes and ears open, because you’re going to learn so much as you deal with those volunteers and businesses that are being a part of this, that then you can build upon and continue that momentum of your chamber, just by being aware and paying attention and not being so hyper focused on that one event that you’re working on. Because it does take a lot of bandwidth. So you may have to be, you know, very intentional about paying attention to those other signals, as you see them, call them signals.

Jill Lagan 23:24
And you know, we’re we want to Chamber’s always want to be part of the solution, right? We we pride ourselves on finding those solutions in our communities and for our business owners. And so you would not know that you would not know what we’re the the need is if you weren’t connected if you weren’t involved if you weren’t engaged. And so I think that that’s one opportunity. You know, sometimes I don’t have the solutions, but I have the ability to bring the two people together that need to create that conversation, that dialog to get to that solution. And so I see us as being really that, that conduit, and we would not have that opportunity if we weren’t involved and engaged in what’s going on in some of the different organizations and I find that to be many rural communities, many small communities, that’s where they excel and that’s the that’s what they do so well that creates that relevance for that community to have the chamber.

Brandon Burton 24:18
Absolutely. So I’d like to ask it for Jack column chamber champions listeners to the podcasts that are out there who are interested in taking their chamber up to the next level. What tip or strategy or action item might you offer them to be able to accomplish that?

Jill Lagan 24:37
I know that had I not had a wonderful mentor Kara Kelly was with the Las Vegas chamber at the time, had she not introduced me to Western Association of chamber executives. I would not be where I am today. Having the ability to get together with your peers and understand best practices have that professional development time. You know right down to it. Just thinking about your own your own mental health, and having that dialogue with others as they, during the pandemic, I don’t know what I would have done without having those connections to those other chamber CEOs, and membership. You know, managers and all of those people who we come together, we exchange great ideas, you also have the opportunity, I learned even more with ACC E and some of the other Association organizations meeting together with them, it has been probably the biggest thing that has excelled my career and has helped us make this chamber better had I not had those relationships, if I had not had those peers to go to, to bounce ideas off of even just simply finding out about some of the different vendors that they use that they have vetted out and know that you know, this is a great credit card processing company, or this is a great insurance program. So having some of those things and meeting up with them. And being a part of those different organizations, I 100%, highly recommend, I truly believe that they are what has made my job a lot easier. Yes,

Brandon Burton 26:08
it’s much easier to learn from others who have gone through and gain some of those bumps and bruises themselves. So you don’t have to do that yourself.

Jill Lagan 26:18
But you know, when you get back to your board, and you’re reporting to your board, it is so valuable to be able to say my peers in these six communities or, you know, in the western region or the eastern areas, it, it creates a quite a bit of stability, continuity, and it gives you the ability to share with your board and other people that other people are doing this. And it has been proven.

Brandon Burton 26:42
And I would say one of the big reasons why I started this podcast was I would work with chambers who I saw were really struggling, I saw some that obviously were doing very well, but some that were really struggling. And the more I learned about it, they were not members of their state association or the regional Sesay or their IT WAC E or ACCE they weren’t learning from their peers. Maybe they had a neighboring chamber that they were connected with. But that was about the extent of it so that that the podcast could share some tips and strategies and best practices, and really be able to get people like Jill on to encourage you to be a part of these Peer Associations. So you can learn and build those relationships, and learn from your peers to really accelerate your growth in the chamber industry. So thank you for sharing that as a tip and action item.

Jill Lagan 27:36
You know, it takes a lot of pressure off of us when I don’t have to have all the good ideas. And I know that I don’t and I love being able to give credit to another chamber for some of the great things that they’re doing that I can say, hey, let’s give this a try. take some pressure off of me. Right, exactly.

Brandon Burton 27:53
So I’d like asking everyone I have on this show this question. As we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers in their purpose going forward?

Jill Lagan 28:06
I have always had a huge passion for chamber work. And the fact that we represent the business community, those voices need to be heard, especially in that small business realm. Obviously, they are going to be the lifeblood of this country from now until whenever. And so I really want to make sure that chambers are relevant in small communities. And I feel like the the best way that they can do that going into the future is putting aside any ill will or bad feelings that might have happened through lack of collaboration. Maybe they had an economic vitality, or an economic development entity come into town and they didn’t get a seat at the table, go ask for that seat at the table. Make sure that you’re opening those doors be a part of some of those different activities that are taking place in your community that makes it so important for you to be at that table. Make sure that when the city council creates new new programs and new scope of work that they know that they need to reach out to the Chamber of Commerce to ask those questions, how that fits how they fit into that picture and how they feel they feel that that’s going to be impactful to the business community. I really believe that being part of those regional organizations, whether it’s economic development, whether it’s, you know, some of the different programs that are happening statewide with your legislative issues, government affairs type activities, I feel like if if we are more engaged and involved and part of some of those bigger pictures, that’s how we fit in so that they can see that when the chamber speaks. It means something when the chamber is engaged or asked to be a part of something or ask their opinion. I feel like if we’re not part of all of that, and we’re not making sure that we have a seat at the each of those tables that we will get left behind and I know that that for me is something that I’m always paying attention to. I want to make sure that without burning us out, obviously, you only have so much time but making sure that you have made a splash in your community so that people are calling to the chamber to make sure that they know that that the Chamber’s opinion is high, and that they have the ability to make a difference in that community. So that doesn’t happen without that collaboration. And in some communities, it may not be especially new people, if you’ve got a new chamber, exactly. It’s just trying to get in and trying to make a difference in that community, the best thing they can do is go meet up with their elected officials, the leaders of the economic development organizations, the leaders of the tourism organizations, and make sure that they realize that they want to make be a part and be a part of the solution for that community.

Brandon Burton 30:42
Absolutely. Well, I wanted to give you an opportunity jail for anyone out there listening who’d like to reach out and connect from you and continue this conversation or maybe learn more from from your example and connect with you what would be the best way for someone to reach out and, and make that connection? Well,

Jill Lagan 31:03
thank you for that opportunity. And I’m going to do a shameless plug for The Best Damn Podcast, which we also host and we’re very excited that we have that chance. And obviously, podcasting is probably something else that people need to look at for the future. We know how important that has become, and what a great tool and a resource for our communities. And not only that outside of our communities for us to be able to reach a broader audience, much like chamber chat does. And so I very much want to introduce that to everybody. But my website is BoulderCityChamber.com. And anyone’s welcome to give me a call or an email, our phone number is 702-293-2034. And my email is jill@bouldercitychamber.com. Awesome.

Brandon Burton 31:50
And I will get all of that in our show notes for this episode, including a link to the best day in podcast. And, and I couldn’t agree with you more the value that a podcast brings for a chamber, but just getting your message out there telling the work you’re done, you’re doing telling the stories of your members and just you know, bringing in those outsiders who maybe are coming for a visit or looking to relocate to the area, just give them a sample of what your community is about. And I will do a shameless plug for my podcasting guide and course that I have four chambers to get up and go on with the podcast. And you can find that at chamberchatpodcast.com/pivot. So there’s a free guide to get started, and then a link for the podcasting course as well. But, Joe, this has been great having you on the podcast, you brought a lot of value and great perspective that I think some people may be a little hesitant to say out loud. So I’m glad we had this discussion and and hopefully some of the smaller chambers out there listening can say yes, that’s what I feel, you know, and they can resonate with that and, and really lean into that work that matters. So thank you for being with us today. And then enjoyed having you with us on the podcast. Thank

Jill Lagan 33:03
you. Thank you for this great opportunity and thank you for your great work.

Brandon Burton 33:07
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Small Staff, Big Impact with Jodi Owczarski

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your hosts Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community. You’re joining us for a special episode as part of our 2023 ACCE Chamber the Year Finalist Series.

Our title sponsor is Community Matters, Inc. With nearly 20 years in the chamber industry and over 100 media awards presented to their chamber partners, community matters provides the R&R that every chamber needs, revenue and recognition.

When it comes to publishing a Chamber Map directory or Community Guide, Community Matters has a trusted experience to help your chamber accomplish your goals. With different advertising sales models and publication styles, Community Matters will help you create a non-dues revenue machine!

Let’s hear from Becky Womble, President of the Bastrop Chamber to hear about her experience with Community Matters.

Becki Womble 1:03
I’ve been using Community Matters for probably six or seven years now. And in a previous life, I sold commercial printing so I can highly recommend Community Matters because it’s a complete turnkey job for any busy chamber exec and it’s a wonderful, beautiful printed product whenever you’re finished. And I just I’m very sold on Community Matters. And with a printing background I just big endorsement from me.

Brandon Burton 1:44
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Our guest for this episode is Jodi Owczarski. For the first five years at the Michigan West Coast Chamber Jodi was accountable for providing leadership in all areas of the organization as well as serving as the integrator within the EOS framework. As the Vice President and Chief Operating Officer Jody was responsible for all human resources, accounting and finance functions, as well as managing the staff Facilities and Operations and directing the West Coast Leadership Program. As of September 1 2022, Jodi was appointed as president and CEO of the Michigan West Coast chamber. Jodi’s limitless capacity for solving math problems has been essential to creating budgets and balance sheets, and her inviting personality and quick humor, combined with our strategic thinking give her the edge when managing staff communities and volunteers. Jodi’s contagious energy ripples out into our business community. Working with the Chamber is a perfect combination of all Jodi’s previous work experiences, including as a self employed small business owner, serving as the community center director at a nonprofit working in HR for a large manufacturer and overseeing operations for an international consulting firm. Jody currently serves on a variety of boards and throughout the community and including ACCE Jody is an enthusiastic Spartan, with a bachelor’s degree in psychology with an emphasis on Human Resource Management from Michigan State University. Jodi, I’m excited to have you with us today here on Chamber Chat Podcast, I’d love for you to take a moment to say hello to all the Chamber Champions and share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better.

Jodi Owczarski 3:41
Awesome. Thanks, Brandon. Truly, it’s an honor to be able to be a part of your podcast. I’ve been a fan for a long time and thrilled to have the opportunity to share what we’re working on at the West Coast chamber. I don’t know what more I have left. I feel like I could have you’ve summed up my whole life. You know more about me now than maybe my mom would even be able to say so. Thanks for the detailed intro. i Yeah, I’m honored.

Brandon Burton 4:10
Yeah. Well, we get personnel on here. So yeah. Well, tell us a little bit more about the Michigan West Coast chamber just to give us an idea, you know, size of the chamber staff budget that all play well into our discussion today, but also touch on the scope of work that you guys are involved with.

Jodi Owczarski 4:28
Yep, absolutely. So we’re located in Holland, Michigan. I’m glad you said Michigan West Coast chamber, because often if we’re called the West Coast chamber, people think we’re over in California. The West Coast chamber came about about 10 years ago actually when two of our chambers merged to make the West Coast chamber and that’s been a just a great process for us since that time, we have about 1200 members and recently grew our staff to seven so we’ve had a pretty small but mighty team by Stand the number of members that we serve. We are proud to be five star accredited through the US Chamber of Commerce, and hope to get that re accreditation status again when we reapply at this time next year. One unique thing perhaps about our organization is we run on something called EOS. The Entrepreneurial Operating System is maybe not as unique anymore. I think we were the very first chamber in the country to start running on EOS. But we’ve been evangelists because of the game changing that that has been for our organization. So we’re super active in our community, we say that we’re a catalyst for business growth and development. We’re a convener of leaders and influencers and a champion for a thriving community. Maybe not so unique, and we hear that often throughout the chamber community

Brandon Burton 5:51
right. Now, that is great. And I’m glad you mentioned the EOS system. And occasionally I’ll hear it in other podcasts that I listened to entrepreneurial bass podcasts and they’ll bring up the EOS system like the Michigan West Coast team or uses it Yeah. setting a good example with it. So hopefully, through our discussion today, we’ll have an opportunity to explore that a little bit and, and maybe how you guys implement that and along with our topic today. So as we focus on our topic that we’re covering for discussion today, it’s around small staff big impact. And that’s all relative, right? So each community, and staff sizes are all relative to you know, like Jodi mentioned, they’ve got seven staff but serving about 1200 Chamber members. So that is a relative small staff to that size of membership. Right now, some listening might have a membership, two or 300 and maybe be the only one but we’ll talk today about ways to make a big impact with a small staff and really getting the best bang for your buck as we go throughout this conversation today. And we’ll dive into that a little deeper as soon as we get back from this quick break.

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Brandon Burton 10:06
All right, Jodi, we’re back. I am anxious to learn more about how you guys make a big impact, especially with your staff size and leveraging opportunities there in your community to serve your Chamber members. So what are some of those fundamental ways that you leverage that impact?

Jodi Owczarski 10:27
You know, the big thing for us, Brandon, I think is that part of Eos is being super clear on who you are, and what your focus area is in for us. When we look at making an impact, we really look at five different areas for us to work in the first being advocacy. I know that can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people. For us, that means that we promote a business friendly environment, through access to elected officials and education on important business related issues. That’s, that’s a big focus for us. The second is business building, we want to help provide visibility connections and resources for business success, that really comes into play with our smaller businesses that are in our chamber. Third area for us is community impact, we think that we can maximize the community, the impact on our community through collaboration and innovation, right? Not everything that we do is business focused, because we know that if the community is strong, business is strong, and vice versa, right? Strong business leads to strong community strong community strong. And so we want to make sure that we’re right at that intersection, to make sure that we can help provide a thriving community. Fourth area for us leadership and talent development, we deliver education and training opportunities for employees to just grow their abilities. This has become especially important threw out this kind of post pandemic time staffs are stretched, thin, people have been pushed into positions that perhaps they weren’t quite ready for, or they’ve not been trained appropriately for, we want to fill that gap and provide opportunities to help develop the leadership and talent skill set within our employee base. And then the last one is inclusivity. We want to foster a culture of belonging within our business community, we want everyone to feel not only like there’s a seat at the table for them, but that we expect them at the table, we welcome them to the table, we’ve got a seat for them, and we want their voice to be present.

Brandon Burton 12:41
Absolutely, that makes a lot of sense. And it’s imperative, I would say to be clear, and who you are and what your areas of focus are, to be able to know what your day to day tasks and responsibilities are. Right, if you’re not clear that you just kind of wander?

Jodi Owczarski 12:57
Well, and I think honestly, Brandon is the chamber, when people don’t know where to go with something, where do they go, they go to the Chamber of Commerce, right. And so we get inundated with all kinds of I’ll call them opportunities to to be involved. And some of those things are fantastic. But if we don’t know who we are, and what our purpose, what our niches, it would be really easy to just get pulled into a ton of different directions and be less impactful. Knowing what our niches what those five things are that that we’re going to work on. If it doesn’t fit in one of those five, we’re gonna have to say no, for us, and our role may be just helping them find others that might be better suited to help with the work that needs to be done.

Brandon Burton 13:46
Yeah. And you often hear oh, but it’s great exposure. Yeah, the chamber is great. But you know, and I have to remind myself that people also die of exposure, so you need to channel that right,

Jodi Owczarski 13:59
I’m gonna I’m gonna hold on to that one.

Brandon Burton 14:04
So it helps being able to narrow down what that focus is. So you can kind of weed out those extra opportunities or exposure and really hone in on what your work what what you guys are focused on. So once you have that clear identity and focus, taking the staff that you have, how do you leverage your staff into delivering in these five key areas?

Jodi Owczarski 14:28
Yeah, you know, the big thing for us, honestly, Brandon, as we start before, considering staff, and look at what work needs to be done, and then creating those roles. So whether you have a staff of one or a staff of seven, you’ve really got to clarify what that work is. Usually it should be kind of those three to five main pieces of work that need to get done, and then find the right people to do that. And so for us, we work off an accountability chart, so that we’re all on The same page of who’s accountable for what looks a lot like an org chart, but really works more from this accountability standpoint. And once we’ve got that clarity, when all of those other opportunities and exposures come up, we’re again focused back on what are the three to five most important things that we need to focus on. And so we really leverage our staff in that way to make sure we continue to stay honed in and completing the most important work, because there’s always more to do. And I

Brandon Burton 15:33
love that approach of really being, you know, clarifying the work. And as you mentioned, finding the right people. And I’m thinking for those with a really small staff, if they’re a staff of one or two, it may not be where they’re finding the right people to do it. But maybe it’s finding the right time and blocking out the time in their schedule to focus on those areas of work. So really blocking in clarifying what that work isn’t needed needs to be done and assigning the time or the people to that, I think is key,

Jodi Owczarski 16:03
for sure. Further to that, for us, we work in 90 days segments. So we work at a quarter at a time. So at the end of each quarter, we look back and review, how did we do this last quarter accomplishing what we needed to get done. And what’s the most important work that needs to happen in this next 90 days for us to be successful and on track. And so there may be additional tasks and projects and things that bubble up that needs to be tackled in that 90 days. And as we assign those to an individual, it also gives them that clarity and permission really to reprioritize their tasks and know this is my number one priority in this 90 days, this has to get done. And so that that additional clarity really helps keep us on track.

Brandon Burton 16:54
I like that idea gives you a little kind of Sprint’s to be able to be accountable for exact area of work. And, and I’m sure that all fits within those 90 day sprints, or focus all fit within the mission of the chamber as well, it does. I’ve seen as we’re recording this, it’s March of 2023. And we’re coming off of these, these Silicon Valley Banks and everything that have crashed and, and as I’m diving into that a little bit just learning about it. All these banks are public banks, and they look at one quarter at a time to try to perform for their shareholders. But they don’t have that driving mission that’s driving that organism. And you can get in real trouble if you’re just you know, looking at the next month or 90 days or quarter, or whatever it is, without that bigger mission. That’s right purpose and focus. So

Jodi Owczarski 17:50
sure. For us, we back our way in right. So we start with a 10 year target of kind of where do we want to be 10 years from now? And then, if we pictured three years from now, what would be on track to get us to that 10 years, right? And then here’s our one year goals. Here’s our one year plan of what do we need to accomplish in the next 12 months to keep us on track towards that mission? That way any of those 90 day sprints or projects, we call them rocks? align with that to make sure are we on track to meet our goals for the bigger picture, right for that one year plan? And what do we need to do in the next 90 days to make sure we hit those goals?

Brandon Burton 18:32
Yeah, I love that. It may be helpful for listeners who I think a lot of chambers that have heard of the EOS system. But maybe it may not be so easy to just summarize in a nutshell, but maybe give it your best shot just so if someone’s listening and like what is EO that it will just save them a Google search and and just hearing from the chamber that implemented it first. What is it and what how does that work? Yeah.

Jodi Owczarski 19:01
ELS just really takes all of the best business practices from a variety of sources and puts it in one easy to follow kind of recipe or cookbook. For us, it means that we have absolute clarity on who we are, what we’re called to do, what our goals are, and what we need to accomplish those those things. So it’s not anything super unique. It’s just taking all of those best principles and putting them all together in in one place. So it’s it’s having that clarity. It’s giving you a long term vision. Our our strategic plan is really a kind of a two page document that’s called a VTOL vision traction organizer that just has everything in one place. You can ask anyone on our team, what our goals are, where we’re going and what our core values are, and they could just knock those out like this right it’s it’s not That’s something that’s a document that’s put away and we pull out every three years to see if we’re on track. It’s living and breathing in driving the work that we do.

Brandon Burton 20:09
So, for those listening, you may hear Entrepreneurial Operating System and think it’s an app or a program or something, it’s really just more of a framework to kind of structure the organization around and keep you on track with your, your purpose and those core values that you mentioned.

Jodi Owczarski 20:25
Absolutely. There’s a book called Traction by Gino Wickman. That’s the cookbook. So yeah, it’s a pretty easy, a pretty easy read. But once you kind of work your way through that, it’s like, Ah, this makes sense. Yeah.

Brandon Burton 20:43
So for those who are listening with the smaller staff, and I feel like every chamber out there can really, you know, hone in on this, because I feel like every chamber is always understaffed for everything that’s going on. Once they, you know, kind of focus in on their their areas of work their their areas of focus of purpose, I guess, clarifying the work and who’s going to do the work? What next steps would you suggest or what, what’s the next thing to try to really maximize the impact that they have with their limited staff?

Jodi Owczarski 21:17
You’re exactly right, you gotta have clarity and your purpose and your needs, you’ve got to find the right people, right, that can do that work. And then you’ve got to build the culture that are keen to keep your all stars in place. So it’s really easy, especially for chambers to just burn out, right? Chamber work is that eight to five, Monday through Friday. Chamber work is all encompassing 24/7, if I go to a wedding, I feel like I’m still representing the chamber, right, and so it never ends. So it’s also creating those boundaries for yourself to make sure that you continue to have gas in the tank, to be able to do the work that is so incredibly important for our community. For us, I sound like an EOS evangelist, I swear they’re not paying me to say these things. But a game changer for us this year, is we read another book called The EOS life. And essentially, it boils down to five questions and whether you do EOS or not. I love this self reflection to make sure you stay on track. One is you have to say yes to all five of these questions. Are you doing what you love? Are you doing it with people that you love? Are you making a huge difference? Are you compensated appropriately? And do you have time for other passions? We hold ourselves accountable to those five questions. Because if any of those answers are no, our time here at the Chamber is likely going to be short, right? If we’re not loving the work that we do, we’re going to end up finding our way out. The biggest issue we’ve had, frankly, is time for other passions. And so we continue to put guardrails and bumpers in place to make sure that our team is getting out. And they’ve got time for other things. And I’m asking them, what what makes you happy? What brings you joy? And we’re actually tracking on a scorecard. Are you doing those things? Are you filling that part of yourself so that you can continue to feel vibrant, joyful and prepared to do the work?

Brandon Burton 23:26
Right? Now, that’s so important to avoid that burnout and make sure in developing that culture, make sure people are enjoying life, make sure they enjoy coming to work, that they enjoy the work they’re involved with. And if not, you know, let’s make some adjustments. Let’s see, you know, what does bring them passion, let’s encourage them to take some vacation days, let’s encourage you know, those things that are going to help to sustain you know, a good, a good healthy balance, if there is such a thing.

Jodi Owczarski 23:56
And you know, and there is and I think if you’re a staff of one, you might think that’s almost impossible to do. But I would challenge and say it’s more important than ever, that you can say yes to all five of those things, right? Because it all does boil down to you. So if you can’t say yes to all those things, if it’s if it’s a time issue, then figure out what what has to come off your plate, you can’t do everything. Right. So goes back to knowing what your purpose is, and and making sure that all of your time is spent on those things. And kind of peeling away the rest.

Brandon Burton 24:33
And if you’re a staff of one, just feeling totally overwhelmed, you know, utilize your board, utilize your volunteers, you know, do you guys how do you utilize volunteers in your board there at the West Coast chamber?

Jodi Owczarski 24:46
Great, great question. We’ve really changed the expectations that we have for our volunteers. We had a huge ambassador program we had I think over 100 ambassadors. They were ineffective. It was cliquey. Anybody who wanted to be an ambassador could just be an ambassador. It was more of a social club than anything else. And a couple of years ago, we decided that that just wasn’t representing who we were as an organization. So we pushed pause, and completely flipped that program, we took what we do for our organization, from an EOS clarity standpoint, and put that same principles into place for our ambassadors. And so they had to know who we were and what their purpose was. And we had expectations for them. We’ve started an application process and an interview process for them to be a part of this important team for us. We’re down to I think, 40. Now ambassadors, and they are doing such incredible meaningful work for us that I can’t imagine not having them as a resource, and an extension for our team, we have a very robust member engagement process, we call them journeys. Here, it’s a defined track of what a member can experience, the touch points they’re going to have with our organization. We don’t want them just hearing from us once a year when it’s time for them to write another check, right. And so we’ve got the structure journey, that would happen throughout the year, we can’t do all of those touch points for 1200 members, with a staff of six or seven, not in that do it well. And so we engage our ambassadors to do a lot of that outreach and engagement. And it’s a great opportunity for them, right? It grows their connections for their own job outside of the chamber. But it also provides the that meaningful contact from the Chamber’s perspective, and gives us the insight that we need so that if a membership is at risk, we know about that before, it’s just a lack of payment for an invoice. And so we can get on that issue earlier.

Brandon Burton 27:00
Right now, I love the way you guys are have changed that Ambassador program and really creating that that honed in focus. Do you know how did that transition go go from going from 100? down to four? Because I can just see, listeners be like, yes, that’s our ambassador programs, clicky. It’s way too big and effective. But you don’t want to, you know, push people away. So how do you do that transition?

Jodi Owczarski 27:27
Great question. So the first year, we allowed, we provided clarity on what the new expectations were going to be. And we allowed everyone who was currently an ambassador to reapply, or to apply and be accepted in that first year. But they did have to apply. But we weren’t going to turn any of them away. Some of them with the new expectations in place. They’re kind of like, yeah, that sounds a lot like work to me. And I think I’m out. And so that was great, right? They self selected out. Yes. Others kind of came through that first year and thought, whatever, you know, they they knew how it was going to be. And after that year of clarity and expectations. They’re like, yeah, that felt a lot more like work. I’m out this year. And so it wasn’t an abrupt change. Others, we had to have some direct conversations like, it might be time, you know, you’ve served us well, we’re so appreciative of the number of years of service you’ve had. But it might be time to let somebody else have this opportunity. And that really had gone over pretty well. But you know, it probably took three, three years or so to really get it down now to this just all star all star team of ambassadors.

Brandon Burton 28:45
Yeah. I’ve been intrigued with all these different Ambassador programs that different chambers do and from applications and interviews to I’ve heard of some that, you know, the ambassadors pay to be part of the program. And it really helps to kind of not weed out but really qualify those who are really there to show up and do the work.

Jodi Owczarski 29:07
Absolutely. We’re turning them away now. Right. I mean, I saw the list of I’m thankful I don’t have to make the decisions, because I was like, Oh, are you kidding? This person doesn’t get to be an ambassador. But it’s it’s the right thing. Right. And so now you’re raising the bar and creating it to be something that people aspire to. What a mind shift,

Brandon Burton 29:26
right? Absolutely. And really, if you’re not qualifying those ambassadors as volunteers, somehow it really ends up just creating more work for you either damage control or hands on with each of those volunteers. And so help yourself by by helping to qualify those who are volunteering.

Jodi Owczarski 29:48
100%. You know, that makes me think of something else. Brandon, I think that so often in the chamber industry, we think about we’ll just we’re just grateful for anybody that will help or any members that will join. And we’ve kind of changed that mindset here. So even from a membership perspective, we raid our members a, b, c, d, if we’re clear on who our ideal members are, we spend more time going after those ideal. And we’d spend more time trying to retain those ideal, because we found that we spent so much of our time and energy chasing and dealing with these problematic members that were paying the very lowest tier membership dues, and really weren’t well aligned with chamber membership. Well, we take their money for a membership, absolutely, well, we support them 100%. But we’re not going to spend the same energy chasing after them. And once we gave ourselves that permission, we were so much more impactful. So I mean, we’ve been retained last year, we retained our membership at over 92%. Right, you find the right the right recipe, and it works. The same thing is true. From the volunteer standpoint, I kind of identify and define what’s your ideal Ambassador look like? And go after those people and raise the bar, don’t just be like, oh, we’ll take whatever we can get. Because those problematic ambassadors that don’t align with those expectations. Oh, they are soul sucking, right? It takes all of your time, all of your energy, and they don’t. And you don’t get anything for it. It’s just a double negative.

Brandon Burton 31:33
Yeah, well, and you can go another step with recruiting your board, right? It’s it across the board, whether it’s a member of volunteer board member, and the example he gave with the members, it’s kind of the membership paradox, right, like those that need the most help that need the most attention, can’t afford to pay more than just the basic entry level membership. So being being clear on that is very helpful. Absolutely. So Jody, as we start to wrap things up here, I wanted to ask you, if you have any tip or action items that you might suggest for listeners who want to take their chamber up to the next level, what would you offer them?

Jodi Owczarski 32:14
You know, I think one thing that is often a struggle for people is kind of making decisions based on data. And so I think don’t let data be something that is carrying you use that to inform your decisions, and your work, whether it’s to go to the board and say, I need another person, or if it’s to define new opportunities for you, or if it’s to kill the sacred cow, right? It’s that program that you’ve done forever, use data to help drive those decisions. We have a very robust scorecard system, that we go over once a week as a staff, with those key metrics that show us whether we’re on track or off track. And we use that really to drive the decisions forward, what are we going to continue to do? What do we need to stop doing? Or what additional resources we need to take things to the next level? So don’t be afraid of data really can be your friend?

Brandon Burton 33:14
Yeah. Especially as you go to your board and say, I feel like we need to get rid of the sacred cow versus we need to get rid of the sacred cow look at you know, what it was five years ago? This is what we’re getting now. The engagements not there. The money’s not there, whatever it is, it’s not aligned with our mission anymore, basically.

Jodi Owczarski 33:33
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know, sometimes killing those sacred cows are the best things that you can ever do. Because it gives you opportunity, space capacity to do something new that might be more meaningful for your organization, for your community for your members. Don’t be afraid to try something new.

Brandon Burton 33:52
Right? So I like asking everyone I have on the show, as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Jodi Owczarski 34:03
Now, that’s such a great question. I was talking to somebody about that. Yesterday, I talked before about the fact that we’ve got a 10 year target, right? Where are we going to be 10 years from now. And our 10 year target does not include the words Chamber of Commerce, we say that we’re going to be an organization that, right, because I don’t know what this is going to look like. And I don’t want to restrict myself so far to say that I do know what that is. Maybe it’s a chamber of commerce. But we know that we want to be the essential business resource and leading connector in the middle of a thriving and prosperous community, whatever that might look like. I think that that the needs from our business community are evolving so quickly, that we’re going to have to continue to change to be relevant and important for the community to continue to lean out in that way.

Brandon Burton 35:01
Yeah, I like that. I had a thought just as you’re given that response that has never really crossed my mind before. But when you talk about not necessarily being married to the term Chamber of Commerce, I’ve seen a lot of chambers make that shift already, right, where they’re, they’ve changed, they’ve taken chamber out of their name. But, you know, in today’s world of digital, you know, keyword research and you know, as people look at terms they’re find found on search engines. Chamber has multiple definitions, right? If you do a search for chamber, I mean, who knows? What’s going to come up? Right? Is there a more defining word or term that can be coined to really encompass what a Chamber of Commerce does? Right? So more clarity and more focus on allowing the community to understand you know, what this organization does,

Jodi Owczarski 36:05
right? I don’t know what the answer is to that, frankly, and maybe we’ll still be a chamber. But we want to be open enough to the fact that that might not be the same label that we have. But we’ll continue to evaluate that year over year. Regardless of what we’re called, I think that there’s a need for an organization, like a chamber of commerce, to be at the core of, of any community to really help it thrive, and to be the best that it can be,

Brandon Burton 36:37
for sure. But God, this has been a fun conversation. I’m sure people have been jotting notes as they’ve been hearing your talk. But for the listeners who might want to reach out and connect with you maybe learn more about the EOS system, or just in general how you guys are doing things Sarah at the Michigan West Coast chamber, what would be the best way for someone to reach out and connect?

Jodi Owczarski 36:58
Absolutely, I we love that. I love it. Personally, our whole staff does. So I would encourage you to visit our website, WestCoastChamber.org. And take a look, feel free. All of our contact information is on the website on our staff page. So if you’re a membership person and want to connect with Jess or Britt, reach out, they’d be happy to hear from you. If you want to talk to me about chamber in general, or anything about EOS forward thinking, click right there on the LinkedIn, contact me directly there as well. We truly are passionate about the work that we do, and are always honored to have the opportunity to talk with other chamber professionals to help support the work that you’re each doing in your own individual communities.

Brandon Burton 37:45
That’s perfect. We’ll have of course links to your website and staff page and everything in our show notes for this episode. So anybody can can find you there as well. But Jodi, thank you so much for being with us today on chamber chat podcast for sharing your experience and how you guys are doing things there at the West Coast chamber. I really do appreciate it.

Jodi Owczarski 38:05
Appreciate it. Thanks so much, Brandon.

Brandon Burton 38:07
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Winter Park Chamber-2023 Chamber of the Year Finalist with Betsy Gardner Eckbert

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your hosts Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community. You’re joining us for a special episode as part of our 2023 ACCE Chamber the Year Finalist Series.

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When it comes to publishing a Chamber Map directory or Community Guide, Community Matters has a trusted experience to help your chamber accomplish your goals. With different advertising sales models and publication styles, Community Matters will help you create a non-dues revenue machine!

Let’s hear from Becky Womble, President of the Bastrop Chamber to hear about her experience with Community Matters.

Becki Womble 1:03
I’ve been using Community Matters for probably six or seven years now. And in a previous life, I sold commercial printing so I can highly recommend Community Matters because it’s a complete turnkey job for any busy chamber exec and it’s a wonderful, beautiful printed product whenever you’re finished. And I just I’m very sold on Community Matters. And with a printing background I just big endorsement from me.

Brandon Burton 1:44
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Our guest for this episode is Betsy Gardner Eckbert. Betsy was raised in Winter Park, Florida, where she came full circle in January 2017 to become the president and CEO of the city’s Chamber of Commerce. She’s focused on innovation and closing the relevancy gap to modernize the organization earning the 2018 chamber Innovation Awards grand prize. Previously in 2009, she moved her family to London, England, where she became Director of Business Development for a mentor consulting limited a UK consulting firm advocating for gender diversity at the board level. She would go on to co found an International Children’s luxury brand of UV protected swimwear long wave apparel limited that was marketed in 14 countries. Building a successful career after taking several years off to raise her two children led Betsy to create relaunch career reentry for professional women at the Chamber of program with more than 100 graduates, many of whom have rejoined to the workforce. In April 2022. The Winter Park Chamber of Commerce released its prosperity scorecard, and ESG embedded scorecard with a commitment to values beyond simply the financial bottom line. Betsy is a graduate of the University of Florida where she was named the 1991 outstanding female leader and has been inducted into the school’s Hall of Fame. She was also a previous guest on Chamber Chat Podcast back on episode 66. For any of you who want to go back and listen to that episode again. But Betsy, it’s a pleasure to have you back with us on chamber chat podcast, I’d love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the Chamber Champions that are out there listening and to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you better.

Betsy Gardner Eckbert 3:55
Well, Brandon, thank you so much for having us and for giving us an opportunity to highlight the work we do that serves the Winter Park community and boast a little bit about the dedication of our team to enhancing the quality of life and business in Winter Park. I really appreciate having this opportunity. And I was reflecting on how much better the conditions are meeting with you today than they were back in the early days of the pandemic where I did a podcast with you from my kitchen, a place I thought I’d be working from for two weeks, which spanned into about four or five months. So we’ve really come a long way since then I’m grateful for the opportunity to be doing this from my office and having a more business like climate for responding to these questions. You know, I think an interesting fact about me is one that my mother hated. And that is a back in in 1999 I took a six week leave of absence from my job and I hiked the Appalachian Trail which my mother described as an unladylike thing to do. Because I was basically living in the woods for six weeks, but it was a really transformational journey for me. I brought a lot of focus into my life, and I was able to move on with intention into the next chapter. But it also taught me a lot about how things don’t go to plan. What happens when you gotta hike through the rain, and when you can’t find the campsite, you’re supposed to find or setting things up in the dark or getting blisters, how you work through and push through some of that stuff has been really helpful for me moving on in through my life. So yeah,

Brandon Burton 5:31
that is really interesting. In the Appalachian Trail, it definitely builds character and a lot of people who spend any time on it. So that is, that’s fantastic. I think that’s awesome. You took that time to do that. I’d love to hear more. But why don’t you tell us a little bit more about the Winter Park chamber just to give us an idea of the type of chamber you are the size staff budget scope of work you guys are involved with and kind of go from there to set the table for our discussion.

Betsy Gardner Eckbert 5:56
So Winter Park is one mile from the Orlando city line. So that city line is one mile from my office. So we we have we use the Orlando airport we shop at Orlando malls, we drive on Orlando Roads, we’re very much integrated into the Orlando MSA. But Winter Park itself is a 29,000 person community spanning nine square miles. However, we are a $4 billion a year economy. And a lot of that is driven by our top industries health care, higher education we have to higher education institutions within the city of Windsor Park. We have financial services, professional services, real estate, restaurant retail are some of the biggest players in our economy. And what’s interesting is that we’ve got about $130,000 of gross regional product per worker in our economy. So it’s a very robust engine. Even though we’re small, we’re mighty, because primarily a lot of Central Florida CEOs live and to some degree work in Winter Park. So what we lack in size, we make up for an influence. And we’re awfully proud of that. You know, one of the other things to frame for our listeners today is that, you know, our job growth has been 10% over the past five years, which has outpaced the nation by almost 7%. And so what’s happening in our community is a real window into the explosive growth that’s going on in the region. And the wraparound problems that come with explosive growth are ours to solve. So that’s a little snapshot of what we have going on here in Winter Park.

Brandon Burton 7:35
Oh, that’s fantastic. I think he just energized everybody to think how can we be like Winter Park, right? He hasn’t done a great, great work. What

Betsy Gardner Eckbert 7:42
I what I didn’t say is that we’re a category two competitor, which means that we’ve got 15 people on our staff about seven FTEs. And we’ve got a $1.2 million operational budget annually.

Brandon Burton 7:55
All right, that’s perfect. So typically, the way I like to structure these chamber, the or finalist interviews is to really focus on the two programs that you guys submitted on your chamber, the your application. So what I’d like to do is, is have you tell us at a high level what the two programs are, and then we can dive into each of them a little bit more in depth.

Betsy Gardner Eckbert 8:18
So program, one is our relaunch program, which you referenced in my bio, but not just that we started it, we underwent an enormous transformation in the way we delivered that program. And that was to move it from a five session of four hours in length each session live delivery to an online delivery, which we began beta testing in late 20, moving into 21. And then we made the actual launch of the kind of this official model and 2022 was our online platform for delivery, which meant that so much of the curriculum had to be moved to self starting work at home and homework that would come back to our sessions online. We started beta testing this during COVID, naturally, because we couldn’t meet live and in person. And we were concerned that we there was going to be a kind of loss of emphasis or focus or impact to what we were teaching and presenting when we moved to an online model. More importantly, we thought that there was going to be a deterioration of the safe space that’s created for our participants who are struggling with confidence gaps is the reason why they’re not really approaching the job market. And if we don’t have some kind of vulnerability and authenticity in the unpacking of these confidence gaps, we’re not going to help these women close them. So we were concerned moving to an online format would be two dimensional, and it wouldn’t have a sense of togetherness that we had created so well in the classroom. And we were ably served by our vice president of programs, who used her significant get an understanding of program delivery, certainly online delivery and how adults learn to help us create a model that not only worked but exceeded the one that we were delivering before. And we got higher engagement from the women in the class because we mandated Facebook group participation. So people are now connecting to each other for coffee in between classes, and they’re sharing, you know, vulnerabilities and struggles and strengths. They’re sharing when they get hired to be an inspiration to the other people in their class. And so and that lives on those Facebook groups live on and they’re private, of course. So we’re really proud of the way that that that has delivered on our core promise to the people that take the class. But what we hadn’t realized was that we were going to start creating regional and national impact with this program. And, you know, when I came into this role, over six years ago, the board asked me to turn my focus and the focus of our staff to a more regional focus, instead of this parochial Winter Park nine square miles focus, we don’t live, you know, they’re not borders that are sealed off here commercially, or otherwise. So we’ve got to live regionally. So when we offered the class online, we started getting people from all over Florida taking it. And then from there, we actually moved into I think it’s five states total that we’ve delivered the program to now. And chambers over the years have come to us and said, Hey, can you help create this class for us to use and actually, unintentionally we did, by making it available through this online learning platform. So now it’s open to anyone who wants to do it, we do an application process to make sure there’s a good fit for this program, because what I will say is that there are well meaning people who realize that we’ve created an amount of networking, capital, and social capital in this program that people want to take advantage of that don’t quite fit the profile of the woman who’s been staying home with children. And so we want to make sure that we’re filtering for that and filtering for professional women who are well educated about 45% of our participants have advanced degrees, that means Master’s or, or doctorates, who, if you can imagine, are struggling with a confidence gap and failing to re approach the job market because of that. So we desperately need their talent in Winter Park, because our job growth is outpacing our population, which is creating strain on our infrastructure and otherwise, and so we we need these talented women to come back to work. It’s a workforce solution that meets the needs of our community. Because there’s enormous demand for degreed, highly sophisticated, polished professionals to serve in the types of jobs that we have in this community.

Brandon Burton 12:50
Yeah, so there are I love so much about this program. One is it, it was something you had started before the pandemic happened. So you have the in person model, you’re kind of, you know, your hand was forced a little bit to reinvent and reimagine what this could look like. So as you compare the old structure to the new structure, I’m sure there’s things that have stood out to you. But what are some of those main takeaways that you see with with moving to the structure being online?

Betsy Gardner Eckbert 13:18
Well, I think it gives. So one of the things that we say to the women who take our classes, we are not going to find a job for you, we’re not going to take the thrill of that away from you. We’re going to teach you exactly how to do it yourself. And then you’re going to feel the pride and satisfaction of knowing you did this on your own. So I think when we shifted the model to have more homework based and less, no one’s going to sit on Zoom for four hours, right? I mean, maybe somebody will, but I don’t know who those people are anymore. So we want to make sure that we’re using our zoom time incredibly preciously. Because it’s very hard to keep adult learners engaged on a zoom platform. And we know that so what we’re trying to do is make sure that you know, we’re doing the the work of, of the women teaching each other what they need to learn in that platform. And we play the role of sophisticate, I’m sorry, a facilitator, and teacher. But what I will say is, having the work shift at home, gives them an even greater sense of ownership of the process, which I think is an as a consequence, we couldn’t have anticipated when we did that. And then I also think they’re getting the opportunity to we make them present a vision board on a video and put it into this Facebook group. And we make them basically interview online, which for many people is going to be their first entree into a career search experience. It’s a zoom interview or a recorded interview. So we make them present themselves on Zoom. And we make them present themselves in recorded videos where they’re presenting who they are, what they’re about, which are actually strategically advantageous to our candidates because they’re probably going to have to do that in the real A world. Now these are technophobes because they’ve been at home. That’s one of the greatest divides between women who are in and out of the workforce is they feel that there’s some big technological boogeyman, that that is going to make it impossible for them to return to work. So when we close those gaps by presenting the recorded interview that is recorded on your phone, or we do the Zoom based interviewing, they no longer have those fears. And they’re much more likely to re approach so that that was one of those sort of unintended consequences that we found that we get asked all the time, when are you moving this back to live? And the answer is never, because it’s much more powerful to deliver it this way. And we’re getting a better result. So with intention, we’re keeping it this way. And it’s really funny, because you know, they only see me on Zoom. And then we’ll end up having live events, because we do recall events with our community, we’ll get together for kind of what we call after care events, they’re, they’re called power ups will bring in alumni and prospective women to come and have hear a topic about something like the imposter syndrome or topics that are relevant to this population. And when they see me for the first time, it’s like they’re seeing somebody from TV, and I’m like they’ve never been in person. So it’s really interesting, that dynamic, but what I do love is that the groups that are forming in these classes have got a greater sense of authenticity and connectedness, because they’re doing shorter touches more frequently on their Facebook group, we just had one get on Fourth of July and was wish everybody Happy Fourth of July, their class ended three months ago. So they’re still very much in touch. And the powerful thing is, when one of them gets a job, it’s role modeling for the rest of the people that get jobs, because it usually takes about six months after our class for them to get hired, on average. So it’s really that’s a really powerful consequence. Yeah.

Brandon Burton 16:52
So I think one of the other things you had mentioned about being intentional about this program is that it’s about building that confidence, or rebuilding the confidence in these women who’ve been out of the workforce for so long. And I see where the online platform, it removes some barriers, where they may not have the confidence to show up to an in person, you know, the seminar event kind of situation. But when it’s online, it the threshold is a lot less to get involved. But then there’s more of a stickiness factor that kind of keeps you in there as well. So I’m sure there’s been examples of that, that you’ve seen people coming out, or maybe just more registrants. And and so maybe talk to that and and also talk about how you broadcast this to the women in your community to attract them to the program.

Betsy Gardner Eckbert 17:37
So I really love that you seized upon that, because we we say internally, we measure our success with relaunch in tears, for a woman to come to grips with her competence gap is inherently vulnerable and sometimes terrifying. Maybe it’s a sad process, you know, not all of the women that go through the program are undergoing a fracture in their marriage, but some of them are, and they’re coming to grips with some really painful features of their lives. And so when they can come to us and unruly, sit with that, and kind of let it wash over them and they can work through it, then they’re by the end of our five week course, ready to have the confidence to go back to the workforce. So we they cry more from their own house. So when we’re on the inverse is I didn’t like interviewing with you in my house, but I like interfacing with you in my office versus true for relaunch, they feel much more comfortable at home. And they’ll share more about what’s at the core of their competence gap, which is when the magic happens, that’s when we can really work to close it. So I think that dynamic of being able to, to feel comfortable in their home and they’re each in their homes, they’re all in a way in the most comfortable place they can be it’s private, they’re not exposed. The other piece is in the beginning. They don’t feel like they belong at the Chamber of Commerce building because they’re not in full time work or part time work. So for some of them even. And so, you know, they feel like you’ve got to be a member of the club to come to the chamber, but like you have a right to be here. What’s really interesting is that many of them report because they get member rates on our events a year after they complete our program, as they say the chamber feels familiar and comfortable to them. So they feel like they’ve got a right to come. So it removes that barrier of just physically arriving at the chamber, which I think can be intimidating to some of our participants as well.

Brandon Burton 19:32
Yeah, I think that’s great. As far as the how the program is facilitated? Is that chamber staff that facilitated is it alumni you bring back in? Is it accommodated? What does that look like?

Betsy Gardner Eckbert 19:43
Now one of the things we do is we survey every single class so we feel really confident about our delivery model and I teach every class and then our programs manager is Ashley billings, and she helps deliver the class so she’ll do all of the admin she’ll do all of the work of getting everybody there. So each week they get a PDF of their whole workbook. So we, we send them a whole workbook, which we have them get a notebook. And they are meant to print out the PDF worksheets, and fill out their worksheets from the week before and their homework packs. And so Ashley does all of that connective tissue so well, and she’s kind of like their, their concierge, their captain of their ship, and they have a deep connection to her. And I just kind of shoot in and teach the class. One of the things that I think is essential is nobody wants to believe us, we tell them that we can help them. And I think if I didn’t have the authentic journey of my own 13 year career break to stay home and focus on my children and the soul crushing and arresting experience of going back to work and feeling really terrified by it. They wouldn’t they sometimes they don’t even believe me when I tell them that that I can help them right. And so I think Ashley and I are both returned to work moms. And I think if we didn’t have that journey, we wouldn’t have a secret sauce in this program. And I think they have to trust us that we can help them. Because there’s just a shockingly low level of self belief for women who’ve made the choice to stay home with their children. And this is something that’s been documented by reports by McKinsey, Morgan Stanley, this is a very big problem. Because this is what’s called the leaky pipeline for talent. And what we really can’t afford to do, it’s like losing a customer. Once you’ve paid the acquisition cost of a new customer, you don’t want to lose them once we’ve put people in a talent pipeline. And we all know how hard that is to do. And that’s core chamber work to put people in a talent pipeline, the last thing we want to do is lose them. And that’s exactly what happens with women who stay home from work. So it’s hard for us to find these women, you asked about how we find them, it’s hard for us to find them. And we have to buy Facebook ads we have to go through we do presentations at PTA meetings, we reach out to places of worship, we reach out to preschools, but the big most effective thing we do is we ask every woman who completes the class to fill her seat because they all know somebody. And when someone comes to you as a stay at home mom and says, I think this class can help you to it did this for me. That’s the most powerful way for a woman and we create the power up programs so they can come kind of check it out and see the shop window. We also have a luncheon in April every year, where we pay tribute to our woman of influence our woman of influence is a woman who’s in full time work, who has made a difference for bringing other women along in the community. And then we also are now giving our lifetime achievement award to a woman who’s probably retired but still making a significant contribution to the community. I’m pleased that we were just able to honor the former Lieutenant Governor of Florida and that way and so when we’re honoring those senior members of our community, their friends come out. And that’s when we have a graduation ceremony for the people who’ve completed the program so that our participants can meet senior women who can help catalyze career growth and promote awareness of the program.

Brandon Burton 23:21
That’s a great idea. I love it. Well let’s let’s look at shifting gears into the other program on your chamber the your application as soon as we get back from this quick break.

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Raquel Borges 25:50
Hi, I’m Raquel I work with Yiftee to help over 500 chambers cities and downtown’s across the US keep local dollars local and support their small businesses. Our CEO Donna Novitsky and I will be at the ACCE Conference in Salt Lake City from July 31 to August 3, and we would love to meet you swing by our booth to say hi and learn about our community gift card program, Community cards are custom branded for your community, and can only be used at your Chamber members businesses, plus the program is free. You can learn more by visiting yiftee.com. That’s yiftee.com or emailing us at sales@yiftee.com. See you at the ACCE Conference.

Brandon Burton 26:39
All right, Betsy, we’re back. So I love everything you had to share with the relaunch program that you guys have is that focused on workforce and bringing women back into the workforce. Let’s shift gears over on to the Winter Park prosperity scorecard what that is and kind of how that came to be and what what all that it encompasses.

Betsy Gardner Eckbert 27:01
So as I spoke earlier, we’ve got tremendous pressure on our local economy that wants to grow, and is growing, but not in the way we need it to. And the kind of growth that’s happening is creating enormous strain on our infrastructure. So every time we have a municipal election, which is every year in March, we have the number one issue that rises to the top is traffic. So of course we’re sitting in this area of explosive growth, and you can expect traffic to be a problem. So if you ask people, especially retirees, what do you think is the biggest problem and Winder Park others too much traffic? Well, the reality is we’re operating a $4 billion a year GDP. So there’s a significant enterprise and Winter Park. And we have healthcare needs. We have a hospital here we have two higher education institutions and Winter Park. And there are people who need to get here. Now the reality is Winter Park has 6000 more jobs than people to do them. So how are we going to get them here, they’re going to drive and clog up our roads. So until that changes, we’re going to see a continued strain on traffic infrastructure, road infrastructure and quality of life, quite frankly. And so what we’re looking at is a holistic approach to not only managing growth, but to promoting it, and making sure that we’re taking all the factors into account that we can, as we try to deliver growth that aligns with the values of our community, high emphasis on quality of life, high emphasis on arts and culture, high emphasis on, you know, historical way of doing things. Florida is really about a 70 year old state. And actually, with the advent of air conditioning, that’s when things exploded here, obviously, right? There were bits of Florida for a very long time that still had a frontier feel to it. Now we’re experiencing our centennial this year. And that means that our chamber was founded in 1923, when margins around Winter Park were frontier feeling. And so we’ve had a sustained presence of supporting the business community here for a long time. And we have people who are committed to making sure that winter parks quality of life stays high. But that very little changes here. And so that’s a mismatch with what’s going on one square mile or one mile from our office with respect to Orlando. So we have all these strains on our community. We need to support the growth of our businesses, we need to make sure that we are driving economic growth and not just helping people fight for market share, but actually grow the pie and you do that one of two ways. The first way is you grow in population and the second is that you increase productivity. And so if we’re going to grow in pop violation to meet this delta between 6000 jobs and people, we have to use land differently. And we do not currently permit land use to allow for dense multifamily units, mixed use, that’s just not in our land use code. And so that’s put there by a group of people who are committed to making sure that we don’t have that here. So we can do what keep real estate prices high. Well, they’ve gone so high that we can afford now to welcome innovators, certainly persons of color, people who are new onto the property ladder in Winter Park, because within one year, our single family home price on average rose from $771,000 to 1 million. Wow. So that has long term consequences for our community. And we’re trying to create a and we have created an ESG embedded scorecard that looks at what are we doing with our governance models? Are we taking in people who are previously unseen? Are we making them seen in the models that we’re creating to make this a better double? Or at least triple bottom line community where we’re not just focused on? Are we all making a lot of money? But are we actually creating opportunities for the environment to thrive? Are we doing the right strategic planning to make sure that we’re taking a leadership role in the region on sustainability with respect to energy, we own our own power company. So we have a role to play there? Are we doing the kinds of things that take into account people who are previously not at the table? Again, we grow the pie by increasing population. And certainly when we increase the population of people who haven’t previously been engaging our economy, it’s a competitive advantage to pursue diverse persons to come and participate in our economy. And so that’s a strategic priority for us. And we’re working with our local government to embed these as priorities. But we can’t do that from the perspective of we’re right, and you’re wrong. So we’re trying to move past that binary system of winners and losers, where there’s always a turf war between growth and no growth, we really want to move past that we want to say, Look, these are our community’s problems. Here they are, and they’re data driven, we’re giving you the data so that you can see, these are in fact, our problems. You can’t, you can’t solve for a 6000 delta between jobs and people without creating solutions for that, that are strategic. And so that’s what this scorecard that we released last year, is designed to do is help us strategically plan for the future.

Brandon Burton 32:37
Yeah, with a city the size of yours being nine square miles, I picture it, it can very well be a master plan, community of sorts, you know, where you can go into it with intention, you have to get all the players involved on the same page to be able to present the data, say, here’s where we are, here’s the direction things are going. And here’s how we get from here to there. And to be able to facilitate and convene those people together to really take that lead as a as a chamber, and kind of chart the direction that your community needs to go to service, those needs that are there, like you had mentioned with the traffic and the workforce shortage shortages and things like that. But also looking at the housing and everything else that is tied to that. So I think it’s very forward thinking for you guys to take the lead on this. And since releasing this scorecard, what kind of feedback have you received? What kind of conversations have come out of this?

Betsy Gardner Eckbert 33:36
Well, I think it’s, it’s great, because it’s dovetailing with our centennial celebration, and we’ve been able to get a lot of engagement and a lot of community buy in from this. People are excited about it. I think it’s signaling a different kind of look from the chamber than anybody’s seen before. And we’re just really excited about the impact that it’s starting to have in our community.

Brandon Burton 33:59
Awesome, awesome. Well, as we start to wrap things up here, I like asking everyone I have on the show for listeners who are interested in taking their chamber up to the next level, what kind of tip or action item might you offer to help them accomplish that goal? Well, we’re

Betsy Gardner Eckbert 34:17
big believers in partnership. And we want to make sure that we’re always aligning with people who can make one plus one equal three, four or five instead of just two. And I think partnership is the key way to get that done.

Brandon Burton 34:30
I would agree partnerships that you can leverage a lot more of your your assets and everything by partnering together and seeing a much greater outcome than just the sum of the parts. As we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Betsy Gardner Eckbert 34:50
So I think it’s important for chambers to be problem solvers going forward. I think it’s important for us to move past the model of of kind of the coffee club. You know, we’ve got to be measuring our ROI and our outcomes. And I think that we’ve got to be anticipating the needs of our members and ideally getting there before they, they can even figure out that it’s a problem for them with a solution.

Brandon Burton 35:17
Yeah. And oftentimes that brings work with it. So you can’t be afraid to work if you’re

Betsy Gardner Eckbert 35:23
able to do that. We’ve got an incredible team here and very proud of so yeah,

Brandon Burton 35:27
absolutely. Well, Betsy, before we let you go, I wanted to give you an opportunity to share any contact information with listeners who might want to reach out and learn more about your relaunch program or how you went about the scorecard or anything else, you guys are doing their Winter Park, what would be the best way for them to reach out and connect,

Betsy Gardner Eckbert 35:44
I’m pretty easy to find at WinterPark.org. My email address is on the staff section, which is under the about tab. And also, I’m on LinkedIn. So I would love to link in with people. I’m very happy to speak to what we do here and help out in any way I can.

Brandon Burton 36:00
Very good. And we’ll get all of that in our show notes for this episode as well make it easy for people to find it. But Betsy, I am so glad we’re able to get you back on Chamber Chat Podcast, you guys are making an impact in your community doing some great work, I can tell the enthusiasm that you have for this work. And I appreciate you being with us today and sharing about these programs. And I wish you and your team Best of luck as chamber the year.

Betsy Gardner Eckbert 36:25
Thanks, Brandon, we really appreciate that have the opportunity to share what we’re doing here in Winter Park with the Chamber community. So thank you so much for the time today.

Brandon Burton 36:33
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Chamber Industry Research with Bob Rohrlack

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to the Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your host, Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

Our title sponsor is Community Matters, Inc. With nearly 20 years in the chamber industry and over 100 media awards presented to their chamber partners, community matters provides the R&R that every chamber needs, revenue and recognition.

When it comes to publishing a Chamber Map directory or Community Guide, Community Matters has a trusted experience to help your chamber accomplish your goals. With different advertising sales models and publication styles, Community Matters will help you create a non-dues revenue machine!

Let’s hear from Becky Womble, President of the Bastrop Chamber to hear about her experience with Community Matters.

Becki Womble 1:03
I’ve been using Community Matters for probably six or seven years now. And in a previous life, I sold commercial printing so I can highly recommend Community Matters because it’s a complete turnkey job for any busy chamber exec and it’s a wonderful, beautiful printed product whenever you’re finished. And I just I’m very sold on Community Matters. And with a printing background I just big endorsement from me.

Brandon Burton 1:44
To learn how Community Matters can support your chamber with your next publication. Please visit communitymattersinc.com/podcast To request your free media kit and request a proposal to find out what kind of non-dues revenue you can generate.

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Brandon Burton 1:45
Our guest for this episode is Bob Rohrlack. Bob serves as the President and CEO of the Tampa Bay Chamber of Commerce. The Tampa Bay chamber is the Florida Association of Chamber of Commerce Professionals 2020 chamber of the year for the large chamber category. Bob earned his doctorate in business administration degree from the University of South Florida. His dissertation research research the factors that influence Chamber of Commerce effectiveness. His award winning research has been published in scholarly peer reviewed journals with over 30 years experience in the Chamber of Commerce and Economic Development profession. He’s led programs at the local, regional and state level. He is a certified chamber executive and past chairman of the Florida Association of chamber professionals, where he was also named the 2017 Florida Association of chamber professionals Executive of the Year since joining the Tampa Bay Chamber. They became the first chamber nationwide to be invited to the White House for an economic briefing discussing issues important to the region. The Tampa Bay Chamber has been awarded the three star chamber of Valor award from the US Chamber of Commerce for their work with the military community. Bob was appointed by Speaker The Florida House of Representatives Dean Cannon to the government Efficiency Task Force, their goal is to recommend $3 billion in savings over four years. He chairs the Subcommittee on Health and Human Services. He’s an honorary commander at MacDill Air Force Base, a board member of visit Tampa Bay, Tampa Downtown Partnership, the Association of Chamber of Commerce executives and the West Shore Alliance. He is past board member of the Florida Chamber of Commerce. Dr. Rohrlack graduated from the Economic Development Institute and the University of Oklahoma and the US chambers IOM program at the University of Georgia, where he also teaches several classes in their program. He’s also an adjunct professor at the University of South Florida. But Bob, I’m excited to have you with us today here on Chamber Chat Podcast. I’d love to give you an opportunity to say hello to the Chamber Champions who are out there listening and share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little bit better.

Bob Rohrlack 4:20
Sure. Thank you, Brandon. I appreciate you hosting me and it’s good to be here to talk about the industry that I’ve been in my entire career. It’s a lot of fun and a lot of great things going on. The Tampa Bay Chamber has right about 1400 members. We’re staff at 22 and we’re focused on our 10 year vision plan. Vision 2026 That is our guideposts for everything we do with the organization and keeps our board focus keeps the team focused on priorities with programs. One of the cool things I got to do with the Chamber for our military initiation event last year, we had it at the Florida aquarium here in Tampa. And part of the event to get to civilians mixing with the military folks, well was a scavenger hunt. And I don’t know if it was a good thing or a bad thing. But the chamber team had the idea of me being in the tank with the sharks as part of this scavenger hunt to find me, but I had to get scuba diving certified to be able to do that. So now I’m a certified scuba diver, which is great to open up a whole new hobby, an adventure, but just one of those other duties as assigned, I think in the chamber industry.

Brandon Burton 5:33
That’s awesome. And it’s a great excuse to scuba service. My wife and I, we, you know, we love going on cruises, because we’re scuba certified. So we get to go on a cruise and have three or four different ports where we could dive and sea creatures, and it’s just a fantastic opportunity. So hopefully you’re taking full advantage and being there. Absolutely. Yes. A lot of fun water. Yeah, yep. Yep. So you know, you touched a little bit on the Tampa Bay chamber as far as the membership size staff working on your tenure mission plan. Didn’t tell us a little bit more of the scope of work you guys are involved with? Are you standard chamber to tourism? What what are what type of work are you involved with,

Bob Rohrlack 6:17
you know, the Tampa Bay Chamber, originally the Tampa Board of Trade, Tampa Chamber, Greater Tampa Chamber now Tampa Bay, because our influence has really become much more regional, and what we do both from our membership perspective, the issues we work on, and our team is located throughout the region. So we really focus regionally on what we do.

But with the 10 year vision plan, our mission is to serve our members and enhance our community by building business success. And we do that with our vision plan that has a foundation of organizational excellence, that our members can have confidence that we are running the chamber to the best business practices we can we just presented to our executive committee, our 14th year in a row, clean audit, showing them that we are managing things well, and being responsible with their investment. But that on that foundation stand our three pillars, one that we are the hub for business where businesses come to learn best practices, and skills from each other and build their network. To that we are catalysts for change in our community, that we are advocating for the important issues to make this great region even better. Transportation being our number one priority on improving the choices for transportation throughout the Tampa Bay region. And our center pillar is that we’re an inclusive organization. And this has been our plan since 2017. So we kind of joke that we were inclusive before being inclusive was cool. And our goal is that our membership reflects the demographics of Hillsborough County, which is the most diverse county in the Tampa Bay region. So we’re measuring through ethnicity, male female ownership of business, veteran ownership of business, the industry type industry size. So when we go to talk to our elected officials, and we say we represent the business community, we can say we truly do represent. So that’s been our goal. We’ve been making great progress towards some of those diversity measurements. on the industry side, we’re matching right on to Hillsborough County, which is great. So it’s how do we keep growing that and making the organization stronger because of the diversity inclusivity in our organization? Absolutely. Know that, that helps a lot to just, you know, let us know the type of work that you guys are involved with. And I love that you were able to state your mission statement without looking down and reading it. You know it it’s part of your being.

Exactly.

Brandon Burton 8:51
So as we transition over to our topic for discussion today. Just for those listening, I’ve had several people say you need to have Bob on the podcast. Yeah, he did. His whole Dr. program, about Chambers of Commerce wrote is his dissertation about the effectiveness of chambers of commerce and he just would really have an a neat perspective that we can all learn from so taking everyone’s advice here we are today. We’ve got Bob on the show, and we will dive in much deeper into the chamber industry research that he did, as he went about, you know, writing his dissertation and going to read a soccer program since we get back from this quick break.

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Donna Novitsky 11:14
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Brandon Burton 12:11
All right, Bob, we’re back. As I mentioned before the break, we’re going to be covering more of the chamber industry research that you uncovered and maybe some of those eye opening indicators or facts that maybe stood out to you. But for those listening, maybe just give us a little bit bit of background, what made you decide to go down this avenue as he went about your Doctorate in Business Administration?

Bob Rohrlack 12:40
Yeah, that’s a great question. As I mentioned, our vision plan, vision 2026. I looked at it and I knew I was the guy to put that first plan together and help help the volunteers working with staff and membership the week got that plan started. And as chamber Folks are always you know, we’re never thinking about the day we’re in, we’re thinking about the next month next year and down the cycle of okay, I want to be in the best position to lead the organization on the second 10 Year Vision Plan as we transition to that, which now is four years away. So it’s okay, I need to be investing in my education. So I talked to leadership at the chamber at the time said I really want to work on this program, the director of the dean of the business school at University of South Florida was a board member. So obviously, he was very encouraging. But I really want to focus on researching on how to make this organization even better than we believe we are. And I got the support from our board to do that. So that’s when I started diving in. When you take the classes in a doctoral program, every class is teaching you. Here’s how to do this part of research when you start to work on the dissertation, whether it’s statistics, which everybody groans, taking those classes, or how to do a proper literature review, how to do an interview properly, all those things you need the skills you need to know. And in one of the classes, I was having a tremendous and I knew everything I needed to do focus on chambers of commerce, because eventually I was going to pick some type of topic related to chambers, and you have your your dissertation is a question that cannot be a yes or no question. So I was really struggling trying to find scholarly peer reviewed literature on Chambers of Commerce. So during a break I spoke to the professor said I’m really struggling here and can’t find things. And without missing a beat. He said, Well, you can’t find anything because chambers aren’t worthy of doing research on Oh, and that was my reaction. I was like, Wait a minute. And the light went off and I realize I’m not a 19 year old student anymore. I don’t have to take the professor. So well you know This profession has put food on my family’s table for 30 years, it’s put a roof over our head. For 30 years, I’m going to be doing research on chambers of commerce. And I walked away, and I was not happy. And I thought, I’m now motivated, this is what we’re going to work on. So I kept digging, realize there is not much scholarly research on chambers of commerce in the United States. There are on some chambers in Europe, but they have different business models on how they’re running chambers. So really had to focus on that. So I took the universe, of chambers of commerce of associations to get to the Galaxy, of chambers of commerce, then to the planet chambers of commerce in the United States. And my research question was, how are Chambers of Commerce leaders align for greater effectiveness? And that became just the research I just kept narrowing down on, I interviewed chambers of commerce, CEOs, and the Chamber of Commerce, volunteer leader for the same chamber, all different sized chambers throughout the United States, asking them, how did they define effectiveness for their organization? Shockingly, everyone got stuck on that question 100%. They didn’t know how to define it. Some would say their budget, some would say members. And I said that’s not effective. That’s not measuring effectiveness that’s measuring your marketability on what you’re doing. So just keep digging into that effectiveness. issue. And it was really interesting. Going through it. As I went through those interviews, identified 72 different characteristics. loaded all the interviews into tremendous software application that helped me filter through the topics, I was able to combine that down to 32. The top five were significantly greater than the remaining topics. So I wrote my dissertation on those top five issues, and what they were

Brandon Burton 17:13
so everybody listening, but tell us what are those five effective.

Bob Rohrlack 17:21
In order of being identified, it was leadership, advocacy, convening, competition, and self promotion. Now on leadership, the CEOs thought their volunteer leader was most important to their effectiveness, the volunteer leader thought the staff leader was the most important to their effectiveness, which is a good issue on supporting each other and realizing the importance of working together as a team. And that would be my best advice to any leader of a Chamber of Commerce. If you’re not working in a team relationship with your chair, you need to focus on that. And if you read the line of succession doesn’t show people that are going to be working with you as as a team member, bringing their skill set to match with your skill set. You need to look at how you’re aligning your leadership. So leadership, very important. Advocacy being the voice for business. When I arrived at the Chamber back in 2009, which this is my third time working at the Tampa Bay chamber. But when I came back as CEO, the decision had been made to spin off the Economic Development Department, which we have a history of spinning off organizations to go be successful tourism, regional development, the economic development, the Downtown Development Group, all were born within our chamber and spun out to be standalone strong organizations. But the view was spin out economic development that contracted public sector dollars with the city and the county would go with them. We now are fully funded privately. And it allowed us to grow our advocacy voice to become much stronger, not in a bully way. But in a hey, what we say matters. We need to be working together that wound up developing relationship with our elected officials that they’re coming to us saying, are you all going to take a position on this? Can we present to your policy and advocacy committees on this issue we’d like to work with you on furthering this topic. So it’s created a better partnership. So advocacy is very important. The convening, bringing our members together, we all learned the value of our chambers during the COVID time when we couldn’t come together. We immediately became a virtual chamber as everybody else did. And we kept telling our members now more than ever, you need your town square. We are your virtual town square, you can’t go to the town square. And we saw our retention rates go up because we just kept reaching out and contacting our members and being that virtual connecting point for them. So convening is critically important. A lot of times chambers get criticized on oh they just have events. That’s all they do. Being that place where they business people can come together and the business community can gather is important to the community. So don’t let that criticism slow you down. Competition was the fourth factor, competition, not those that are against you. But for those good volunteers that you want, and those budget dollars that you need to succeed, there’s a lot of competition for their time and their financial resources. So you have to prove your worth, in that loud, crowded arena, that they want to focus on you. And they want to be part of who you are and what you’re doing. So competition for their time, and competition for their scarce valuable resources. critically important. And the fifth item was self promotion. Everything we do in the chamber world staff does all the work we give our volunteers all the credit, we know that a majority of the work, I should say in case any volunteer ceases. But we don’t tell our story well enough on volunteer, Jane Doe did this at the Chamber of Commerce, they worked with us at the chamber to get this done. So telling our story on why it matters. And the impact of what we do matters to our members is critically important. So that self promotion through storytelling is really what can make your organization strong, impactful humanizes a big organization, and gets people to say I want to be a part of that. So those five factors are the ones that I wrote about in more detail in the dissertation.

Brandon Burton 21:33
Absolutely, those are, I can see why those five factors kind of rose to the top. And I can see as you as you gave attention to competition in the community for for resources and volunteers and time that the competition factor is going to point to those other factors as well right to be able to show your value, and why they should be you know, giving money and time and effort towards your organization. So I’m also a big fan of the self promotion, the storytelling, I tried to get chambers, you know, across the country to do podcast and especially coming through the pandemic when you couldn’t convene together and traditional ways. There’s ways of telling stories, telling the stories, your members telling the success that your chamber had and helping other businesses be successful. So there’s a lot of different avenues of doing that with the self promotion. Are there other other I don’t wanna say factors? Because that might, you know, muddy the definitions here, these five key factors, but are there other elements that stood out to you in your research that you found eye opening? Or maybe he hadn’t given a lot of thought to before that that just stood out that are worth mentioning?

Bob Rohrlack 22:48
Well, you know, I’m gonna flip the question upside down. Because there was, there were two things that stood out that I was really surprised with, in a not so great way. Okay. Those five factors didn’t really surprise me. But I was surprised at the alignment between the volunteer leader and the paid staff leader. The they all lined up except convening and competition were flipped from the staff to the volunteer. But what gave me great concern, and you actually picked up on it when you commented that I’ve memorized and I know our mission statement, not one interview, when asked about how do they define effectiveness? How do they measure their effectiveness? mentioned their mission statement? A strategic plan, a mission plan? Any kind of plan? Not one? Oh, wow. Why do you have your plan? If it’s not how you, you know, measure, figure your your effectiveness? And how do you know you’re being effective if you don’t even mention your plan. So that taught me that we really need to make sure we are aligning to our vision plan and that it matters. And we’re putting it in front of the members all the time and helping them to focus on here’s how to engage and be a part of who we are. So if there’s one takeaway, besides, people can download the dissertation, know your mission statement, not just that you can recite it, but that you know it and you’re thinking how to apply it and live in your organization. And if you have a strategic plan and vision plan and operation plan, some type of plan, know your plan, not memorize a big plan, but know how to apply and how to how to plug it into what you’re doing. Our entire team at our chamber knows, if you have an idea, don’t even come to present it if you can’t align it to at least one of the pillars that I mentioned previously. The more pillars you can align it to the better your chance of getting support both financial and time. But that vision plan matters. We report every year how we are aligning to that vision plan. The day after the annual meeting. I tell the team we start writing the story for next year today. a CIO, you have, you’ve got to know that and that was the big surprise takeaway that people didn’t talk about their vision plan, their mission statement or any kind of strategic plan.

Brandon Burton 25:12
Yeah, that is that is I mean, it’s not surprising just for the experience that I’ve seen, but at the same time, it is kind of shocking that that’s not more central in decision making, and, and being able to measure success and effectiveness. And our our chamber

Bob Rohrlack 25:29
years ago, was known as chamber does your whatever the issue or the idea of that your chairman was, that’s what everybody got rallied around. When they pass the gavel, they dropped the issue, we picked up the next issue. It’s hard to align people and keep moving progressively as an organization to impact the issues you want to impact if you’re turning all the time. So we our vision plan serves, these are the bumpers, here’s how we’re going to work towards these issues. And it really was impactful during the COVID years, when we were trying to be impactful to the members, but kept working on that vision and relaying that to the members. And what we were doing is we reached out to every member and touched them as much as we could let them know we cared about them, and how are they doing through the process,

Brandon Burton 26:17
right. And when you’re constantly changing direction each year, every other year, it makes it really hard for your community to understand what the chamber does, right. And when you talk about, you know, the keys and measuring effectiveness of the chamber I think of with ACC does a good job. I think when it comes down to the chamber the year you know, each year they select these finalists after doing the the chamber benchmarking surveys and everything. And being able to measure effectiveness in their community with the impact that these chambers. So they’re measuring effectiveness by impact in their community, which you should be able to look to your community and they see these things that you’re doing to to further a positive cause throughout the community. And of course, it is intentionally left vague as I say that because it should go back to your mission and your vision statement. And every chamber is going to be slightly different with that. But for the most part, it’s promoting business and promoting good community environment.

Bob Rohrlack 27:21
Right. And as we were looking at starting to vision plan, and so we want to be a diverse organization, we realize our diversity of our members wasn’t matching the county, what are we going to do? So we started researching that and looking at who’s doing what to support minority businesses. We kept digging kept looking. It was a three year study period for us. We couldn’t find quantifiable research and data on the status of the minority business community. In our county, again, our county being the most diverse county in the region. So I got support from the board. We hired an economist, and we studied the minority business community here in the county. And what we found out and this is several years ago was about 48% of the privately owned businesses are black are Hispanic owned, that’s a great stat to have our community. But at the time, their impact was only 5% of the GDP. That is a problem. So that we kept researching what how can we plug into this not stepping on somebody’s toes without replicating another program, what we could do. ACCE helped us we looked at other programs around the country. But we wound up developing our minority business accelerator program. It’s a two year cohort program. Companies have to apply to be in they have a small amount of skin in the game. And it’s a deep dive helping them work to make their business stronger so they can grow. As then we track them for three years after they finished the two year cohort program. It’s it’s proven to be very successful slow start is folks, does the chamber mean it and they really want to do this. But now we’re we have companies coming to saying I want to get in I want to get in, I want to be part of this program. And we’re seeing the diversity of our membership as an organization change in the right direction as well, which is one of the big benefits we were aiming for. So the process of studying the issue, being knowledgeable on the issue before we acted on the issue helped us have a stronger impact that we’re still having in that area today.

Brandon Burton 29:32
Yeah, and I think it’s so important to look at key aspects like that to be able to see where, you know, these column, the key indicator where you you see a percentage of minority owned businesses in the community, but then the impact on the economy in the community and seeing that disparity and being able to make a difference there. And I see. Oftentimes when you see minority focused chambers that pop up, whether it’s a Hispanic Chamber of Commerce or African American Chamber of Commerce, they tend to sprout up in their origins because they don’t feel like they’re being represented well in the business community. And if there’s a seat at the table, if they really are being looked at as any other business and really trying to have that, that positive impact in the economy and and building one community, instead of fragments, here and there, it really gives everybody a place to call home and really that convening power of businesses in general,

Bob Rohrlack 30:30
right, and we talk to the diversity chambers, from the point of we get it, it makes sense for you all to want to get together with your common bond. But don’t forget to make sure we’re all working together as well. So we don’t create islands, because islands will just feed what we’re identifying as the problem not getting us to the solution. And so, we’ve worked very hard to show that we are in this together with every other chamber in our region. And you know, we all succeed better together than trying to go along, just working from that philosophy.

Brandon Burton 31:04
Absolutely. So important having that that synergy, even amongst the chambers in a community or in a region to be able to align those, those purposes. So Right. So Bob, I wanted to ask, if for a chamber listening, who is interested in taking their organization up to the next level, what tip or action item might you share with them to to help accomplish that goal?

Bob Rohrlack 31:32
To do that, you got to know where you are, you got to know what’s working and what’s not working. But the why and try to stay away from anything anecdotal. The data driven, was when we were asking our members for diversity information. Some would give it some what not. So we made a stronger push to get that information. And we got a little bit of pushback, why are you asking Is it because you measure what matters, we want our organization to be more diverse. And then a great unintended consequence, as we focused on that. And we were more open about it, other organizations in the region. So you know, we need to be thinking about that, too. We need to be focusing on that. There’s another organization that when our when companies graduate, from our minority business accelerator, they give them a year membership in their organization to help introduce them to what they’re doing. So we’re seeing that we’re all going to succeed better together this way. But know the data of your organization? How did you get to where you are? What’s been your economic trend? What’s been your, your membership trend? on whatever issue you’re working on? How was it trajectory? What’s the trajectory for it and the market and go to your leadership, with data, and nothing deals with an issue better than just being able to put data in fact, in front of them? Not anecdotal? That was one of the problems when we were researching the minority program, I met with a lot of different groups. I got a lot of anecdotal suggestions. And you ought to you should do this, do that, where I came from that that and the other. And I said, that’s wonderful. Can you get the program information? Can you what data do you have, that you can share with me? No one had it. I said, Well, how can you advise where to go if you don’t know where you are? So you really need to know what the situation is, whatever your topic is, and how you’re working on it.

Brandon Burton 33:26
Yeah. And in today’s world, it’s easier than ever to collect data. That’s right, and to be able to reference it and digest it in a way that makes sense to chart a path forward.

Bob Rohrlack 33:35
And some folks may know this, I didn’t until I started the DBA program. We all know Google and searching on Google. But in the academic community, there’s a whole nother lane of Google called Google scholars. And it’s the peer reviewed academic research angle. And if you don’t have access to it, talk to your university about helping you to be able to get access to it. But that will get you the the research papers that have been done on the topic you’re looking for. And there’s a ton out there. I know everything about chambers, that I’ve tried to start in Africa, and other areas that didn’t really fit in apply to what we’re doing United States. But as I was trying to find United States research, I saw how much is out there for other areas. So definitely tap into Google scholars.

Brandon Burton 34:28
It’s a great tip. So, Rob, I like asking everyone to have on the show as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Bob Rohrlack 34:42
Another good question. When I first got into the chamber world, a long time ago, it was we’re the business organization we help businesses succeed and grow about so they can hire more people and that’s our focus. There are other groups focusing on the social issues in the community. That’s great. They’re good they need to focus on that as well. But this is the lane we have. And it was a pretty hard and fast lane. If anything we’ve seen over the last several years, it’s not that way anymore. We need to be more concerned about how those issues are impacted. Everything that goes on, for example, we did an event late last year on human trafficking, and the impact that it has to the region, for the reasons of human trafficking, and the sex exploitation industry, but there’s also normal jobs that you would see regular jobs, where people are being trafficked to work in jobs that form well below minimum wage that you may not even know. So how do we help elevate from that, and the human trafficking connection to incarceration, to the foster care system, to unemployment, it connects throughout the whole economy. So we wanted our members to be more aware of it. And we have people who work within the industries in organizations to combat that Industry Council will help people as they’re exiting, and just trying to work on that. So that’s just an example of chambers, I think, really, in the future have got to figure away, and it’s unique to each community. What are some of the social service issues they could partner with and get their members to help and be involved in the economy is not as rigid as it was, it’s impacting everything. And we’ve got to have a more caring approach. Beyond just business success.

Brandon Burton 36:42
Like that, it’s going to show more of what that impact is that effectiveness of the chambers to get involved with the social service issues this year, right as he called them. But Bob, this has been a fun conversation. It’s been it’s been fun to to learn more of the research that you found and, and the work you had to do to to get down to this research, since it wasn’t just available to research on your own. I wanted to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for listeners who might want to reach out and connect with you learn more about the research your dissertation, what would be the best way to reach out and connect.

Bob Rohrlack 37:21
Yeah, the best way, you go to our website, TampaBayChamber.com. And see the different things we’re doing our vision plan is there and in the measurables, how we’re tracking for the vision plan. And I can be reached through email, first initial last name, so brohrlack@tampabaychamber.com. But if you go to TampaBayChamber.com, you can find me there. And then it’s googling the dissertation that will come up. And then the other articles that I’ve had published because I’ve made that a goal to get more research on chambers of commerce in the United States, in scholarly publications. So I’ve had a couple things published already. So just just, they can all be found. But I’m happy to help anybody anyway, I can.

Brandon Burton 38:11
Good deal. And we can try to do too. And our show notes will have your contact information, but we can try to link directly to your dissertation. So people want to go there and find that and maybe save some Google searching and poking around. And I can just go straight to the show notes for this episode. But Bob, this has been a good conversation, you’ve shined a lot of light on the work that Chambers of Commerce do and in particular with how they go about being effective in servicing their communities. So thank you for sharing this with us. It’s been an insightful conversation from a very unique perspective. So I do appreciate that.

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Addressing Challenges Facing Businesses with Rick Wilson

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to the Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your host, Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

Our title sponsor is Community Matters, Inc. With nearly 20 years in the chamber industry and over 100 media awards presented to their chamber partners, community matters provides the R&R that every chamber needs, revenue and recognition.

When it comes to publishing a Chamber Map directory or Community Guide, Community Matters has a trusted experience to help your chamber accomplish your goals. With different advertising sales models and publication styles, Community Matters will help you create a non-dues revenue machine!

Let’s hear from Becky Womble, President of the Bastrop Chamber to hear about her experience with Community Matters.

Becki Womble 1:03
I’ve been using Community Matters for probably six or seven years now. And in a previous life, I sold commercial printing so I can highly recommend Community Matters because it’s a complete turnkey job for any busy chamber exec and it’s a wonderful, beautiful printed product whenever you’re finished. And I just I’m very sold on Community Matters. And with a printing background I just big endorsement from me.

Brandon Burton 1:44
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Our guest for this episode is Rick Wilson. Rick is the President and CEO of the San Diego Regional East County Chamber of Commerce, and has been since 2019. Rick comes from a 16 year career working at the YMCA organization in a variety of different roles from facility manager to executive manager. He’s an active Rotarian, and is involved at different levels with several local organizations and board of directors. But Rick, I’m excited to have you with us today here on Chamber Chat Podcast, I’d love to give you a moment to say hello to all the Chamber Champions that are out there listening and share something interesting about yourself so you can get to know you a little better.

Rick Wilson 2:37
Well, thank you, Brandon. And it’s exciting to be on the show here. And hello, everybody out there. All those interested in what goes on at chambers of commerce. And again, my name is Rick Wilson. I’m the President CEO for the San Diego Regional East County Chamber of Commerce. I’m very excited to be on here today to chat a little bit about what’s going on with chambers of commerce, especially here in Southern California and hopefully, some great storytelling on will help you guys moving forward on some of the things you’re looking to do as well. But a little interesting about me. Born and raised here in Southern California, I went to school for a little bit in Australia for about a year as well as in Virginia, of when I was in high school and then went to college at UC Santa Barbara. And then was lucky enough to come back to San Diego to work for the then San Diego Chargers. And that was a great experience for seven seasons traveling on the road working in coaching and working in the business department. But since then, I’ve moved on was at the YMCA, As Brandon mentioned, and now landed over here at the East County Chamber of Commerce for about the past four years and really excited to continue to help our business community.

Brandon Burton 3:38
That’s right. And you you came into the chamber world at just the right time get about a year of experience under your belt before they really put you to work, right?

Rick Wilson 3:47
Yes, sir.

You know, got hired in May of 2019. And about March of 2020. We all experienced the same thing and stay at home orders and the 100 year pandemic and there was no playbook for anybody on what to do during 100 year pandemic, especially for Chambers of Commerce. So we definitely rolled up our sleeves and dove into it and just went after it. Absolutely. But tell us a little bit about the San Diego East County Chamber just give us an idea of you know where you’re coming from. So things like the size of the chamber staff budget scope of work you’re involved with. And that’ll kind of set our table for discussion. Great. So yeah, the San Diego Regional East County Chamber of Commerce was founded back in August of 1912. So we are now in our 100 and 11th year of operations here at the chamber. So that’s quite a few generations that have really looked at our chamber as the go to resource in that community, whether it’s business related or not. And we definitely really love that and appreciate that and want to keep that up our staff size. We’re fully staffed. We have five employees. And we have two longtime volunteers one for about four years and one for about 11 years now. And that’s really helped us out our budgets, just over half a million just

over 500,000. And we’re looking to continue to grow our membership is right around 600 members. And so we’re looking coming out of the pandemic continuing to grow that we had a great program and a great plan going in 2019. And then as I mentioned earlier, the pandemic hit and for everybody, it just kind of changed the way we did business, but really excited about what the future holds. And as a chamber of commerce, we want to be that resource in our community to help everyone out.

Brandon Burton 5:26
So I know it’s in the name. So the San Diego Regional East County team, what all the do encompasses geographically?

Rick Wilson 5:35
Now, that’s a great question. So well, first off, I’ll start off by saying that as a chamber of commerce, we don’t really see boundaries or barriers. We’re a global economy. So we’ve gotten members in other states here in the United States, Northern California, and then obviously a lot in Los Angeles in Southern California, but we are in San Diego Regional East County Chamber of Commerce. So if we had borders, we would say we go as far east as Borrego Springs as far south as Spring Valley as far north as Poway and as far west as La Mesa. But we do things all over San Diego County, we partner with tons of chambers of commerce here in San Diego. And the whole goal of that is to bring our businesses together, it has nothing to do with poaching, membership or anything like that. We kind of believe that, you know, the rising tide lifts all ships so we can work together as chambers of commerce, we can help the business community even more, and that’s really what we’re looking for. So as a Regional Chamber, we’re not just regionally for each county, but we are regional throughout San Diego County doing everything we can to help.

Brandon Burton 6:33
Okay, I know that that makes a lot of sense. So I appreciate the the extra explanation of the name, right?

Rick Wilson 6:40
Yes, it is a little bit of a sentence. Yeah.

Brandon Burton 6:43
So as we get into our discussion for our topic, today, we settled on the idea of talking about how chambers can really be a resource and a help for businesses who are facing struggles and some of those struggles that businesses face. So we’ll dive deeper into this discussion as soon as they get back from this quick break.

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Donna Novitsky 8:43
Hi, everyone, Donna from Yiftee here with another fun fact about small businesses. Did you know that there are 77 million people working in small businesses in the US? That’s almost half of the entire civilian workforce. But I know that you already know the value of local businesses. That is why we created community cards. They bring revenue to your members’ businesses that today is leaving your community and going to national brands and e-commerce companies. In addition to consumers we see schools, hospitals, city governments and companies buying community cards in bulk instead of buying big box store and online gift cards. Community cards keep local dollars local. For more info come to a demo or email us at sales@yiftee.com. We look forward to meeting you back to you Brandon.

Brandon Burton 9:37
All right, Rick, we’re back. So leading into the break there we introduce the topic for our discussion today being addressing challenges that are facing businesses and specifically how a chamber of commerce can help with addressing some of these challenges and and I think it’s kind of an inherent thing for Chambers of Commerce to be involved with being problem solving. versus their community. But as we approach this discussion, what what are some of those things that are maybe top of mind for you when it comes to a chamber of commerce helping businesses that are facing certain struggles?

Rick Wilson 10:13
Absolutely. Well, first off, thank you, Brandon, the Chamber of Commerce exists because of so many businesses that exist in our society, right? We are in a capitalistic society. So Chamber of Commerce has are here to really help businesses small, medium, and large size. And some of the challenges that we’ve been seeing over the past year and a half, two years coming out of the pandemic, obviously, is workforce, getting employees, I would say, the middle of 2021, coming out of the pandemic wooden restrictions kind of lifted up was definitely a challenge. Definitely, in Southern California, we saw, restaurants half empty, and they’re not serving the other half, because they can’t get enough employees, cooks, waiters, you name it. And so a lot of stores or retail, or manufacturing, or anything that we can think of have struggled with getting workforce. So as a chamber of commerce, we are definitely working with the Workforce Partnership in San Diego here, working with the Economic Development Council, working with government, local agencies, to make sure that we are doing what we can to help get that workforce back into our society back into working, that really is the machine that makes everything go. And so Workforce Partnership is incredibly important workforce development work with, like I mentioned, all those agencies, that’s been really big for us, and we’ve not arrived, we are still looking to do that, I would say we’ve gone from getting bodies in there to now really needing to look at incredibly qualified people getting back to where we were pre pandemic. So looking for those qualified applicants now and really getting them placed into our workforce out here in East County and throughout San Diego County. So that’s, that’s one of the big topics that we’ve seen.

Brandon Burton 11:49
Yeah, so the workforce issue, I think it’s taken on a whole different approach, a whole different issue, you know, coming out of the pandemic. So before, I think, you know, we’d see jobs shift from one region to another, or different states, navy, whatever political climates or incentives there are for employers to be in certain places, but the pandemic when everything shut down, and people kind of got creative in different ways to bring in an income, and especially those in the service industry, if they weren’t, you know, super high income earners to begin with. And maybe they’d created their own side gig or side hustle that became something. I mean, it just really created a different need and that time of their own employment, but then it leaves a huge void today, right? So as we look at trying to help with the workforce issues, is that something you guys are seeing there in the San Diego area? How, how are you trying to approach it to fill that void? I’m sure others are looking at a similar situation.

Rick Wilson 12:56
It’s a really good point, we have seen coming out of the pandemic, a lot of people who were employees of organizations, nations looking to kind of go on their own. And so we’ve had a lot of people come into the chamber of commerce, and we’ve worked with the Economic Development Council to help them start a business are starting to realize to during the pandemic, that a brick and mortar isn’t the be all end all that you know, it really expose the fact that those who were not comfortable with people working from home, for the pandemic, really were forced to see this results. And as many saw, you’re getting the same production, if not more, with some of those people working from home, which has really, you know, allowed. The word I’d like to use this pivot, we talked about that a lot during the pandemic is businesses looking outside the box re looking at their business model. You know, what if I use an example of one of our local companies here was heavy, a barbecue place, heavy seven days a week in their restaurant pandemic happen, they changed their business model pretty quickly. And they jumped all over the fact that all of our hospitals, and all of our health care, were starting to feed their people on a 24 hour basis, because remember, during the pandemic, and people working 12 hour shifts, 15 hour shifts. And that pivoting of that model for that restaurant, just as little restaurant completely blew them out of the water. They’re doing better than they’ve ever done. They’ve looked at their model. Now they rent out their facility three days a week for parties and events. It’s less staff that they need to put on the front end with not sharing what’s going to come in and able to load up their staff or catering their chefs. So pivoting was really one of the biggest things that we worked on during the pandemic to try to think outside the box to help businesses think of something different and individual employees who were unemployed during the pandemic, who maybe didn’t fall into the wonderful PPP program, working with them if they wanted to start a business on how we could get this going, especially during the pandemic and we’ve seen some really great results with that.

Brandon Burton 14:50
Yeah, so yeah, I guess that’s that’s a whole nother aspect of the the workforce issues all the money printing and all the money that got put into the system and I Um, stimulus checks and things like that that made work optional for people for a time. Or give them that flexibility to explore the opportunities to so yeah. What are what are some of the other challenges that you see businesses facing that a chamber of commerce can help with,

Rick Wilson 15:18
especially coming into 2023, two of the big things that we’ve been seeing is obviously, the supply chain, we all hear about this challenge that’s been happening. And then obviously, inflation. So with inflation, you know, businesses looking at their total package, what they’re offering, you know, most that we know how to increase pricing, depending on what service it is that they have, or what industry they’re in, as our chamber of commerce worked really hard coming out of the pandemic, and in 2022, really made some great strides. We were able to as a decision this year with our board of directors to not raise our pricing for our membership, do the fact that everyone is it totally makes sense to do it. You know, this is the time that you can argue and say, Yes, but if you’ve been able to do some really great things and make some really great decisions that have benefited you financially, as an organization, we’d like to turn that around, and give that back to our members by being able to say for 2023, with the inflation going up, and pricing going up and everything being like it is we’ve been able to hold our pricing at membership for 2023, which we’re incredibly proud of. And we’ve been getting incredible feedback on that, knowing that in 2024, we will have to look at an increase, but we just we’re talking at the end of 2022. What can we do for our members as they go through supply chain issues, inflation workforce challenges. So we’re really proud of that. And if you know, organizations are able to do that, whether through grants, whether through donations, whether it’s due just smart strategic and what you’re doing with your events as a chamber, you know, that’s a great way to give back to your members without actually taking it out of your pocket.

Brandon Burton 16:56
Right. So I think those are two key things that the chambers can can work on. And I think that we see a need across the country with both supply chain and inflation. And I commend you guys for being able to take a look at your budget and say we don’t need to raise price. And I’m sure your members appreciate that. As far as addressing the needs of the members, I mean that that’s one way of addressing that the inflation, but are you guys providing any feedback or data or anything as far as inflation goes? Or to be able to provide resources with supply chain issues? At what’s the approach on those two things you guys are taken?

Rick Wilson 17:37
Yeah, partnerships are very big for us at this Chamber of Commerce, we feel like we are able to reach more and do more by partnering. So when you’re talking about data, yes, we work with several groups here, not only in East County, but throughout San Diego County to keep our eyes on what’s going on with the economy. And so with related to inflation, what kind of data can we push out what kind of suggestions, so we’re not the be all end all as a chamber, the more partnerships we have, the more research verses we’re able to give to our members and non members just in the entire business community. So really, partnerships are what’s big. And so working with those groups, we can give those resources out. One of our big partners, and I think for most chambers is the Economic Development Council. They work on a lot of similar items that we do. So we try not to duplicate what we’re doing, we try to work together to make sure that together, we’re pushing out those resources to the community. So we’re very proud of that. And also continuing to work with other chambers really makes that partnership with other outside agencies much easier. Because we’re all trying to do the same thing. We’re all trying to help the business community. And it’s not a competition, it’s really about if, if the business committee is doing great tax dollars are rolling in coming back to your city in your county, it just makes a better place where we all work, live and play. And that’s what we’re really our goal is to go towards, right.

Brandon Burton 18:56
So the thing that comes to mind, you know, oftentimes, chambers are very involved with important work, you know, and oftentimes, they’re not seeking the credit, you know, the the partnerships, it doesn’t matter who gets the credit, necessarily, as long as the work gets done and information gets out there and everything. But at the same time, it’s important for people to understand what a Chamber of Commerce does, right. So there’s that definition of what a chamber does. So I’m curious as you guys work to address the needs, the the issues that are facing businesses, obviously, it’s best to have, you know, success stories, you know, individuals who are telling others that word of mouth spreads. But are there other ways that you guys are trying to educate the community about the work that you guys are involved with, and specifically with sharing some of these success stories of helping businesses overcome obstacles?

Rick Wilson 19:52
And that’s a great question. I think that’s probably one of the number one challenges most chambers have is pushing out the information and the resources on what they do. I think most people will think they know what a chamber of commerce, I probably have exactly one of those before I got the job. And then when you dive in, you realize that, yes, it is about the business community, but in that respect of the business community, how are you going about helping them. And in my opinion, there’s multiple branches on this tree of how you get to that success. So like, we talked about partnerships are partnering with government partner with leaders in your community, partner with big organizations that are looking to give back to the business community. So there’s multiple ways that you can do that, obviously, during the pandemic, we had program grant programs that came out in the county, the states and the cities that we all live in work in. And that was kind of a band aid to help, you know, get to a certain point. But it really wasn’t a solution. It was really about talking with other groups and making sure that we’re working to be successful, and not just saying, we as an organization know what is happening, we need to get a vibe of what’s going out throughout our county. And that is the best way to get those results and get those two people or organizations or businesses that we work with. Could you follow up again, with the second question? There’s another part to that question?

Brandon Burton 21:10
Yeah, that’s a good question. Mainly about just how you guys go about sharing the success that you guys create for businesses and beyond the word of mouth of businesses that have been impacted, telling others? How are you sharing the message of what a chamber does? And specifically with addressing the challenges that face businesses? And a great,

Rick Wilson 21:35
that’s a great question, and I appreciate you kind of falling back up with that. So for us, you know, when we look at, yes, social media, that’s where people live, right? So social media is incredibly important that we’re, we’re pushing out the word, a lot of people are using Twitter or Instagram to find out their information, we know a lot of our media, really still follow Twitter, that’s really kind of where they get their information. So we’re pushing out as much as we can on that we have a weekly newsletter that goes out to over 2500 businesses, but we only have 600 members. So we know the business community has their eye on what’s going on with us. And we want to help. And when people find themselves in an alignment with what we’re doing, then fantastic, they can join our chamber. But our goal is really to help the business community. And so looking at these opportunities, success stories. I mean, there’s lots of them, I think of stories that we constantly tell people and educate, reach out to the chamber when, when you have a question, we can probably help you. And a lot of it is businesses with permitting and cities in the areas that they’re in. Well, we’re working with all these cities. So we can call in sometimes it’s just as easy as the permit is ready. But someone didn’t press the button within that city organization, because they’re so busy themselves trying to get things done. And Souplantation was a huge organization here in San Diego that died in Southern California during the pandemic. And we have a business owner who’s bringing that back and working with the city to bring that back. And people are very excited about that. And I’ll just share one little simple story on that is, she also is running a different business in there until she can bring Souplantation back. So she didn’t want to take the big signs down there on a 30 foot pole, the ones on the buildings. And if you’re not running the business at the time, you need to do that. But there’s also a clause that you can also put a wonderful canvas over it. And so she went from oh my gosh, this is going to destroy my business to oh, I can just have put a canvas over it until we get Souplantation open again. So working with your chamber communicating with your chamber. That’s the biggest thing, the more we hear from our businesses, that voice of what’s going on, the more that we can push that towards government write letters to the state, work with local entities, you know, deregulation, you name it. But when we hear from our business, community, especially our members, that’s the biggest thing. So one of the big tips I would give to anyone listening out there is reach out to your chamber, your chamber is there to serve you. And I know that it’s very difficult, you’re running your own business, you don’t have a lot of time to be engaged. But I used I like to use the analogy of a gym membership, right, we all kind of have a New Year’s resolution, we get that gym membership, we put it in our front pocket, but we never go to the gym, not to say that you can achieve your goals. But it might be a little bit more difficult to achieve your goal. If you don’t go to the gym. Well, if you join the Chamber of Commerce, the chamber is going to do everything it can for you, it’s going to mark it for you, it’s going to reach out to you it’s gonna have touch points, it’s going to share resources. But if it’s not hearing from you, and it’s not engaging with you, it’s harder for that business to achieve its goals. So my suggestion always is try to be engaged, try to be involved in Do not hesitate reaching out to your chamber, they have more resources than you would think.

Brandon Burton 24:34
Yeah, that’s great advice for business owners. So maybe I will shift that it says a good tip for business owners. What tip or action item might you have for a chamber that’s listening that would be interested in taking their chamber up to the next level? So

Rick Wilson 24:51
they I love this question. This is one of my favorite answer is that chambers definitely in their areas is you know the the environment in the communities that they’re serving. He will be strategic on that. But for us, the bigger picture is we’re all inclusive. We care about everyone in the business community. So for us, it’s not about getting our membership to 1000 by next year. And what are we doing strategically to do that? If we’re pushing out that information, and really being all inclusive, when I say all inclusive means that you’re willing to partner with other chambers, you’re not we’re afraid about another chamber, oh, they’re talking to someone on the side and taking my member. That’s if that’s what’s happening, then that chamber is not really driving and doing what it’s supposed to what it’s supposed to be doing is collaborating, working and bringing all these resources to the business community. So the first thing I would suggest is, open your doors to all chambers, try to partner with mixers, any opportunity that you have. Look at that we have a meeting next week, we have our women in leadership luncheon that we’ve been running now for 21 years. And there’s a huge group here in San Diego called mana, which is Latino business women in that group has 400 Women in that association. Well, we want to see what opportunities there are for our very successful event that has over 600 people that attended every year, we want to partner with other groups to find out what might we be missing. So always be as a chamber be open to hearing other ideas, doesn’t mean that you’re going to move forward on every idea. But we’re that crazy chamber that believes if we throw 100 things on the wall, and one or two stick boy, we are going in the right direction. But if we don’t vet those opportunities, if we don’t look at that opportunity, then we’re going to kind of be the same chamber that we’ve always been. And we are a chamber that wants to be innovative. Were the first chamber of commerce in North America to have a personal assistant robot that Tammy robot that you’re starting to see in airports, restaurants and things like that. So we want to be leaders in our community, we want to be innovative, if and the only way to do that is to open our doors, and work with as many organizations, government agencies and chambers of commerce as we can so that we can all succeed. So in my vision, if the chambers in San Diego County, which is about 30, or 40. If they’re succeeding, then we’re all succeeding than the entire business community. So be open to working with other chambers of commerce. And there’s incredible ROI for that.

Brandon Burton 27:09
Awesome. So circle back, tell us about that personal assistant robot. Everybody’s all over AI these days, right? Yes. What can this robot do for you.

Rick Wilson 27:22
So interesting. Back in 2019, when I got the job, I met a gentleman who was a member of virtual reality for Main Street. So he kind of saw the technology, which is kind of already here. But he wanted to help chambers kind of grow with that. So we started a program called chamber innovators that did okay. But really, when the pandemic hit, chamber, innovators, all of a sudden became one of the number one programs in San Diego, we’re putting, excuse me, we’re putting it on virtually once a week. And we have people all over the nation with innovative business practices, innovation with technology. And so we had a lot of members throughout San Diego County that were members of other chambers jumping on this free program, and really started driving us in that technology innovation Avenue. Coming out of the pandemic, we had the opportunity to get one of these Tammy robots. And so if you walk into our office, the first thing is you’re greeted by the robot, it will welcome you. We bring it to all of our events. So it’s like anything else, you got a program and for whatever you wanted to do. But we had all our sponsors that are big EC honors event that we just had last week. And all the sponsors love that, that is robots talk, going around and talking about the sponsors. And, you know, it was definitely just a different way of looking at things. And as time goes on, we’re seeing airports restaurants using these not to replace employees, but to really use it as an additional tool to make the organization more efficient and better. And I’ll give an example. I was just at a restaurant three weeks ago, where when you walk up the person that greets you and says oh table for four great, they send the robot to take you to where which sends a message to the waiter that now your table for is ready and the robot sat you down. And the restaurant we weren’t at didn’t have the robot serving. But I have seen that. And so the personal robot assistant is really an assistant, it’s not a replacement of any employee that we have is to really build on what we’re doing and become more efficient in what we do. Plus technology’s kind of cool. So everybody does like it.

Brandon Burton 29:18
That’s right. Yeah, that reminds me, I was at a Chick fil A in in Texas, a small town in Texas. And we sit down and they had to have these robots that would bring the food to you. So they’re taken at the counter, put the tray on this robot and they would go right to your table. And it was pretty slick. I mean, everybody’s in there just watching the show, right? Technology is cool. But so does this robot. Does it collect any data, or is it just delivering data? How is it interacting?

Rick Wilson 29:50
Yeah, so so far, we have one of the first models that came out, t Mi, Tammy. And so there’s all kinds of new ones like I’ll just segue real quick into there. There’s ones that it’s, uh, the, the stamp, I guess you could call it is a refrigerator. So if you had one at home, you would still need to stock it. But you could call on your robot anytime to bring you a beverage or anything like that. And for us, it’s not collecting data, it’s you program it to do anything and everything that you want. I do believe that that is the future. And I’m sure some of the newer models that have come out do have that it’s an evolution. But the first model that we got out really has one little platform that we put some waters on, it greets our members when they come in or non members. It shows them a few things in our lobby or business cards, you know, materials of our members, sit them down in our conference room and let them know someone will be with them right away. Then it goes to each one of our offices until we say hello. Oh Rick’s not in hope someone else is not in this person’s in and lets them know that someone’s there. So it is helping us being more efficient. But right now, we’re not using it as a data collection. We’re putting information into it, depending on what day it is what event it is that we have going on. But mostly Monday through Friday. It’s a it’s a welcome robot that welcomes people when they come in. And what I wanted to have happen is happen, people who walk in, they walk out and word of mouth is Have you been to these County Chamber recently, they’ve got a robot in there. And so that’s kind of one of those spread of word where people just want to come in the postal workers now don’t just drop off the mail, they want to come in everyday because they want to be greeted by the robot.

Brandon Burton 31:26
That is great. Any any of these things that can draw that attention and positive positive comments? That’s great. So I like asking is another good segue I like asking everyone I have on the show, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Rick Wilson 31:45
That’s a really great question. I’ll just say this, if chambers aren’t innovating and thinking outside the box, they could get left behind. If you’re doing it the way it was 1015 20 years ago, exactly the same, you might get left behind with all the innovation that’s coming out. So my suggestion is that what we’re doing is looking at all the tried and true practices that still do work, yet open to all kinds of opportunities to look at what the future has, as technology gets better. As as partnerships grow as bigger, or organizations are looking to partner with smaller organizations Chamber of Commerce are ripe for that. So continue to look for partnership opportunities, continue to try to partner with chambers of commerce, and be open to innovation and new ideas that really is what’s going to continue to take chambers to the next level. Because we are not going to be the same in our community, especially after the pandemic. So looking at business models, really looking at the way we do things, the way the business community operates, be flexible and right along with them to help them achieve their goals.

Brandon Burton 32:54
I like that. And I think look into the future. Some of those things that are on the horizon right now, obviously, is artificial intelligence. Already, a lot of buzz around that. But also look at things like blockchain and NF T’s and the business models that go along with that, because it’s going to change the way a lot of businesses operate. And if as a chamber, we need to know, you know, how do these things work?

Rick Wilson 33:20
Correct. And to your point, AI, as well as augmented reality is starting to become really big. If you went to our website, you’ll see, about two years ago, we had created a virtual Chamber of Commerce. So you could go to our chamber of commerce, virtually, you could go into different rooms, different lobby areas and get services and get stuff that would traditionally be on our website. And now we’re starting to see an augmented reality avatars that are walking around you create your own avatar, and building Chambers of Commerce is our businesses or, gosh, what do I even say like, imagine a conference but you’re you’re you’re you’re in downtown San Diego at the wonderful conference center, where you’re doing it 100% virtually don’t have to actually fly out and get a hotel, you can be a part of that. And we’re starting to see that becoming reality. During the pandemic, we did a couple job fairs like that, that were incredibly successful, where we weren’t sure how people would react to having a little avatar and go into different rooms and sitting down and having interviews virtually. And we didn’t know how it worked. But we had about 350 participants in that and it was incredible. And so I think it’s the more that you do the stuff in technology, artificial intelligence, augmented reality, you name it, the more comfortable you get into I am someone who’s not a techie. And so for me, it’s like I get the concept. I want to be innovative, but I’m not your leader. That’s gonna say this is how you do it. Here’s, here’s all the logistics. But I tell you surround yourself with people that do you know what’s going on that are leaders in that industry, and they can hold your hand and take you with them to because for us, we’re one of the chambers in San Diego they’re looked at as Wow, look at all this innovation but it’s Because of the partners that I have, is why we’re there. It’s not because of myself, I wouldn’t know the first thing about that stuff except saying that looks super cool on the screen. That’s

Brandon Burton 35:10
great. So Rick, I like to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for listeners who would like to reach out and learn more about how you guys are doing things at your chamber, and maybe addressing some of these challenges that businesses face, what would be the best way for someone to reach out and connect?

Rick Wilson 35:28
Yeah, so I’m pretty transparent on everything. I’ll give you my email address, which is rickw@eastcountychamber.org. Our website is eastcountychamber.org, you can contact us here at the office 619-440-6161. And I want to be here for any chamber, I’ve learned a lot from other chambers, people who have been CEOs for 2025 years and Chamber of Commerce’s throughout the United States. And I want to be that reference and resource as well. And I’m sure whoever contacts me, I’m going to learn from them as well. We continue to learn from each other continue to evolve and grow our chambers of commerce, they’ve come a long way from 100 years ago. And as businesses pivot, and as they look at new ways of doing things, looking at their business models, we as a chamber need to be flexible as well and coming right along with them, hearing their voice and sharing that with our local government.

Brandon Burton 36:21
Absolutely. And that’s why we do this. That’s why we encourage people to reach out and connect and build that network and learn from each other. So thank you, Rick, for joining us today on chamber tap podcast for sharing your experiences. And it’s been a fun conversation and something that hopefully in re energizes those that are listening to do that important work at their chamber, and especially when it comes to facing those difficult challenges that their business members are facing. So thanks a lot for for being with us today.

Rick Wilson 36:51
Well, thank you so much, Brandon, for the opportunity to be on chamber chat. What a great opportunity to share resources, but also let everyone know that we are here to help and we want to learn as well. So if you have something incredible and innovative that you’re doing, I would love to learn about that as well. But thank you so much, Brandon. Great to be on chamber chat.

Brandon Burton 37:08
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Killing Sacred Cows with Wayne Michell

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to the Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your host, Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

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Becki Womble 1:03
I’ve been using Community Matters for probably six or seven years now. And in a previous life, I sold commercial printing so I can highly recommend Community Matters because it’s a complete turnkey job for any busy chamber exec and it’s a wonderful, beautiful printed product whenever you’re finished. And I just I’m very sold on Community Matters. And with a printing background I just big endorsement from me.

Brandon Burton 1:44
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Our guests for this episode is Wayne Michell and July of 2016, Wayne was named president and CEO of the Nacogdoches Chamber of Commerce in Nacogdoches, Texas. He has worked with businesses and organizations over the past 45 years in various roles. Wayne is a graduate of the US Chamber of Commerce Institute for organization management and has served on the institute faculty for over 22 years. He’s taught chamber executives and nonprofit leaders from Maine to California. Wayne has worked for associations on the local, state and national level. He’s a past president and CEO of the Kennebec Valley Chamber of Commerce, former director of state services for the United State JCS, Executive Vice President of the Maine paper industry information office, former Executive Vice President for the Maine publicity Bureau, past president of the Maine JCS, past president of the Maine association of Chamber of Commerce executives, former CEO of the Augusta Board of Trade and former member of the Board of Directors for the Texas Association of chamber executives. In 1991, Wayne founded Broadcom, Broadcom provided a variety of services to state and national corporations and nonprofits. Wayne has been a registered lobbyist in Maine and Washington, DC. But Wayne, I’m excited to have you with us today here on chamber chat podcast, I’d love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the chamber champions that are out there listening and share something interesting about yourself so we can get to know you a little better.

Wayne Michell 3:38
Well, first of all, thank you Brandon for the invite to participate here today. And it brings back my institute faculty days and the opportunity to share all of the things that that I’ve learned good or bad in my 40 plus years of experience. After you read that resume, you can come to the conclusion quickly I can’t hold the job

around so frequently but all kidding aside, this is this industry is nonprofit world we live in a chamber world and not in the association world for me has been has been absolutely wonderful. I I have enjoyed my 40 plus year career in this in this field here. I think the you asked me to share an interesting statistic and that is that I spent most of my youth overseas in there in Taiwan or in Germany growing up so when my family finally settled in my in my late in my late school years high school years back here in the United States. It it was great to be re acclimated to the American way of life after living in in in China and and enjoying it for those many years and and you have enormous appreciation for this country and the and and many blessings that offer so. But I don’t regret a moment the opportunity I had to grow up overseas.

Brandon Burton 5:13
Right now both my parents were military brat, so living all over from Spain to Turkey to Japan and all over the place. So I can appreciate that and probably see a lot of similarities between our backgrounds there. But why don’t you take a moment and share with us a little bit more about the Nacogdoches county chamber just to give us an idea of maybe sizes, size of the chamber staff budget, scope of work, things you guys are involved with, just to help set the table for our discussion today?

Wayne Michell 5:47
Well, first of all, it’s great to be here Nacogdoches County, and especially the city of Nacogdoches, which is which is heralded as the oldest town in Texas 300 plus years old. The Chamber itself is over 100 years old as well. So we have a long and proud history here in Nacogdoches, we’re currently just a hair above 600 members. And we have a very diverse membership base everything from manufacturing, to retailing to, to distribution, you name it, we probably are engaged with it here. What I love most about an academician is is is the is the collaboration between the various organizations in town, we play so well together. And I think that helps us become more effective in accomplishing the objectives we have in serving our community here today, at my staff is typically about five. Right now we’re down one person, but will remedy that in the next few weeks, I suspect. And I’m proud to say that my Executive Vice President Kelly, Augustine is an institute graduate, as am I. So we’ve got the institute experience behind us. And we’ll be sending to other staff members to either the TC AC Institute program or the US Chamber program in the next year. So we take professional development very seriously. And we are a four star accredited chamber, which we’re also proud of, and we’ll be moving into the accreditation process in the next in the next couple of months are re accreditation for hopefully obtaining the fifth star.

Brandon Burton 7:28
Awesome. That is great. You guys are rolling and glad to see you’re sending to more staff to institute here in the near future as fantastic. So for our discussion, for our topic for discussion today. Rather, we decided to focus our discussion around something that either has been addressed or has been talked about, or has, at least the idea has been kicked around in a lot of people’s minds in the chamber world. And that is the idea of killing sacred cows. I think a lot of times the idea is there and the need is there to kill these sacred cows but there’s a lot of fear around it. But we’ll we’ll dive into that discussion much deeper as soon as they get back from this quick break.

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Brandon Burton 10:58
All right, Wayne, we’re back. As I mentioned before the break as we talk about sacred burning sacred cows, or killing sacred cows, doesn’t matter. I’m not prejudiced one way or another how we kill them, but we got to kill them, whether it’s by fire something else. But there is a lot of fear around getting rid of programs and, and things that your chamber is really identified with, you know, a lot of I think that’s the problem is a lot of times these programs and scope of work become something that really becomes the identity of the chamber, sort of get rid of those programs. I think a lot of people have a hard time wrapping their mind around it. But how have you come to terms with being able to kill sacred cows and be able to move forward with more important work?

Wayne Michell 11:48
Well, first of all, I think I don’t know of a man or woman in the chamber business. Certainly a CEO that hasn’t inherited or, or had created a sacred cow with no organization. And I always define a sacred cow as a program or project that has run its course, it’s no longer needed by the membership. And I’ll give you a couple of Wayne isms as we go through this chat this morning, Brandon. But it is often difficult for chambers to move away from traditional projects and programs. But there’s a necessity to do it, especially in this changing economic environment. I often say that one of the things, one of the things we need to ask ourselves, every year about everything that we’re engaged in is the relevance of what we’re doing. And whether or not it’s the most important utilization of chamber resources. And I’ve always said that the resources break down into three different areas, staff time, volunteer time, and financial resources. If you don’t have the money, the staff or the volunteers to do something, you probably ought not to be doing it. And every year, something comes along, that we need to be engaged in a surprise in our community, the loss of a major industry, a catastrophe locally. All sorts of different things that happen that requires us to at least refocus our energies and our resources in order to preserve our economic base, and our and make our communities hopefully more attractive for investment. So I think it I think you can’t attack the sacred cow without some degree of risk as a CEO, and how you do it safely, I think is the key to success on this. So I I’ve got some thoughts or so how you approach it, or why it’s difficult to, to to eliminate those things. I mean, sacred cows typically have members and commute in, both in the within the chamber and within the community that are emotionally committed to the project. They may be founders of the program. I, the things I created as a chamber CEO will be included at some point in my obituary, either the first second or third paragraph. And yes, it I can say I’m objective, but the truth of the matter is, it is tough. When somebody takes a look at your program, sometimes the sacred cows create income, sometimes the community so, so committed to it and and, and expects it every year that it’s tough to walk away from. So those are the you know, those are least the approaches to sacred cows. Brendan,

Brandon Burton 14:44
so you had mentioned that as an executive, there’s always some level of risk when you talk about killing a sacred cow. At what point and I liked how you identified it as saying that the sacred cows a program project that has run its course, but at what point does see where this program project has run its course. And now it’s worth the risk of taking it on because of all those other factors of people being emotionally connected, or there’s it’s an income generator, there’s certain expectations in your community. So how do you balance that? Where you say, yep, now’s the time, we need to tackle this, this program or project that has run its course?

Wayne Michell 15:23
Well, I will tell you this brand, and I’ve tried to make their decision rather than my decision or my recommendation idea. And I do that by approaching it by saying, I think there are questions we need to ask ourselves. You heard me say at the beginning of this, this chap that in I have a few Wayne is one one. Wayne ism is a to many chambers that perform programs and projects based on tradition, and not based on the needs of the membership. If you can’t, if you can’t make a direct link between what you’re doing and what they need, then you probably ought not to be doing it. The second Wayne isn’t my answer is that every chamber has sacred cows. And at least once a year, someone needs to stick a fork in it, to see if it’s still relevant to the needs of the membership. See, if it’s when I say someone, I want my board and a retreat to look at every program or project and ask Is this still the most important utilization of chamber resources? And, and, and the third Wayne ism, I’d say it would be just because you’re making money on a program or project doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be doing it. Money ought not to be the motivating factor. It shouldn’t be again, based on ROI, what return on investment, do we provide our members, I was engaged in a program a while back where we spent over $30,000 of the organization’s resources to execute. And on the way back from where we where we implemented that project. I had a long drive. And the question I kept saying, Well, what were the deliverables out of this project? What did that 30,000 Give my members? And you know, what? I, we reinvented that project, and we in order to be able to answer that question more comfortably. But we need every year to come to that conclusion. You ask how we do it safely? Right. From from a staff standpoint? Well, in my opinion, what we need to do is, it’ll Fiberon anything in the last in the last 30 years of my career. I think the first 10 years of my nonprofit career, I flew by the seat of my pants. I you know, I went on hunches and guesses and estimations. And I think the last 30 years, I have a great appreciation on the value of data. And on every program or project. I want to collect data, which starts with surveys. And I distill that down on every project project to three questions. If we do a trade show and somebody buys a booth at that trade show, we need to ask that woman or man, What value did this program have to your company or your business? And I have three questions great value, some value or little or no, in the vast consensus is little or no, then we’re going to we’re going to visit that project and determine whether we should be continuing now. We need to ask that question on not everything we do in our organizations, and not make some assumption is that people and when I collect that data I liked, I like to put it in a form where I can present it to my board. I give them an honest assessment of what the project did at the end. But then I let them know what the customers our members feel about that program or project. I had one Expo I remember my early years of chamber business we knit and probably 40,000, which would probably be 100,000. In today’s dollars, which shows you how long ago it was. Yeah. So it was a successful project. And I’m talking about knitting after staff time and everything else is calculated. Yeah. At the end of the program, I surveyed the 150 booths. And 70% of them said little or no value in the survey result. And so when I followed up and said, if you have little or no value to them, Why did you participate? And they said to support the chamber. That’s the wrong reason for them to be there. Right. I love their commitment and but we killed that project and next year based on the data and the feedback we had,

Brandon Burton 19:55
and we’re making good money though. You know what

Wayne Michell 19:59
Have we had to we had is that what we’re in business for just to make money, we’re in business to serve our communities and our customers, our members first. And so when my board saw that, the vast majority viewed that thing not as an investment, but as as a contribution. They wisely said, it’s time to move on. Money is not the motivating factor for doing an expo, we thought it was our business development. It had it had run its course,

Brandon Burton 20:29
Brendon? Yeah, I can see where somebody could say this is a successful program. Is it successful Expo? Because we made X amount of money? Yeah, X amount of dollars. And they may not want to ask those questions, because they don’t want to hear the answer. That was little to no value. So I think it’s a great idea of asking or providing these surveys for every program and project just across them, it’s, you don’t apply a filter on it ahead of time to decide whether or not to do the survey. It’s just part of everything you do.

Wayne Michell 21:02
Absolutely. And today, with, with the tools of technology that we have available to us, there’s no excuse for us not testing the value of our programs, each and every one of them. I think that that’s that’s a key. And here’s where this becomes complicated for those of us in the staff and volunteer leadership, when the woman or man created that that trade show is still around, active in the chamber meeting, you know, with us in the community, it becomes you know, let me tell you, you’re going to hear, you need to be prepared to hear from those folks. And to make your case when you try to do eliminate that, that program that they have an enormous emotional commitment to. Sometimes I’m successful in that, but I believe that sales job to the volunteer leadership, if they agree, the program needs to be either massively revised, or eliminated, guess what? Then they need, they need to be leading the charge, not the CEO of the chamber, and not the staff, the staff. So the staffs obligation is to collect the data and, and to present the results. Right. And I

Brandon Burton 22:12
think it may be a good idea, even with some of those community players who may be the founder, those who are emotionally involved with it to as you have those discussions, or have you, your volunteers have those discussions, to help them really find what their real identity is in the community. And maybe it aligns with some of those chamber things, being able to convene people maybe to be in a champion for business, rather than the identity being that particular event that they found it or, you know, I think there’s so much emotion to it, when it becomes your identity, that there might be other ways of approaching that to show where their value really lies, and maybe get them to buy in on the next thing, you know, that will maybe they have other ideas that could be a value

Wayne Michell 23:00
you’re spot on. I mean, I was always fun to sing when I was teaching it Institute. And it’s and I learned this, you know, I add a 30 year absence from the chamber management world I, I started out, you know, running a chamber in Augusta, Maine at the Kennebec Valley Chamber in the mid 80s. And then reenter the chamber world in the in the in 2016. And what I learned in the first six months of being here at NEC noches at this chamber is I could not run my chamber today, inaccurate notice the way I ran my chamber in the mid 80s, and be relevant. And if if I attempted to do that, we wouldn’t be a dismal failure today. And we we as change as CEO is better be prepared to change as, as the needs of the community change to stay relevant. And that means you need to have capacity, you need to have staff money and volunteers to do something, you can’t do 1000 things with a chamber, everybody, I don’t care what the size of your chamber is, we all have limitations. And they just they break down those three areas. So I’d rather get rid of something that’s no longer needed, and put something that has greater value and return on investment to our communities in its place. But it’s tough to do that because people are wedded to tradition. And that’s where, you know, it does put us at risk profession when we raise, raise questions like that because somebody’s gonna say, Wait a second, that’s my baby. Yes, what your baby’s grown up, and it’s about ready to and there were other ways to do it too. You can spin off a project or program to another organization. If the community doesn’t like is running the course. Great. Let somebody else do it. Yeah. And find another host for that program. If you can’t find another host I think that should speak volumes about the relevance of that project.

Brandon Burton 25:03
That is very true. Yeah, spin it off to another host and see that feedback as it comes in. But another thought I had is some of these programs, some of these community events, they, like you said, they’re steeped in tradition, because we tag on, you know, 37th, annual, you know, festival or parade or whatever it is. So it becomes an expectation, which at the beginning might have been a good idea marketing wise to have that going and have that expectation for each year. But when it comes to the end of its course, that can really come back to haunt you, when you’ve you know, tacked on the what year it is, you’re doing this festival? So be careful of that. I guess.

Wayne Michell 25:45
You’re absolutely right. I mean, it does add a level of difficulty and in moving along on those things. And I, you know, I look, I’m on the latter stages of my chamber career here, probably. But I will say this, nothing, nothing bothers me more than boring programs. Even if you don’t eliminate the darn thing, at least every I don’t like go into programs are the same every day, if I’m bored, imagine how my members feel about it. Right? So at the very least if you if you challenge the relevance, or stick a fork into a program and say, okay, is this still necessary, at least at the very least change the darn thing? So that you know, so that there’s something new, exciting I, I challenge my staff colleagues and my and my volunteer leaders, my committee chairs, is that look, don’t do it the same way. We did it last year. But we got a plan, we got a strategy. You know what? I understand that, but it’s the same plan you had three years ago, right? If you can’t have new and improved and show me something different than what you know, they have run its course.

Brandon Burton 26:55
That’s right. That’s great. And hopefully this is this conversation is getting the wheels spinning in the minds of people listening and in really evaluating what what are some of those sacred cows that their organization? How can they start having these conversations with those stakeholders and with those volunteers to and their board members to be asking those questions? Is this still relevant? Is this still the best use of your time and resources as a chamber? I think that that question right, there is so key to just continue being relevant as a chamber. But I wanted to ask as we start wrapping things up, what might be a tip or an action item that you would suggest for chamber who is listening who would like to take their chamber up to the next level?

Wayne Michell 27:40
Well, first of all, find out what other folks are doing. And I don’t just mean in your region I’m talking about nationwide. The advantage I had in being a chamber consultant for 25 years, is that I had the opportunity to facilitate hundreds, literally hundreds of board retreats. And I always left almost every chamber that I was working with, with with a new idea or something. So in this day and age is it with with the with the technology and social media, things that we have available to us look at what folks are doing, I visit websites, I visit, I look at programs of work, I look at staff structure, and and and constantly reevaluate what we’re doing based on what the industry norms, are there extraordinary women and men out there that are leading these organizations. And let me tell you something. If you think after being on an institute faculty for 22 years, I learned at all, you’re sorely mistaken, every day, it seems like I learned something new about this industry in this job. And I think that’s what keeps us relevant. The learning process doesn’t stop at any point in his business. COVID showed us all that we had to reinvent the way we we serviced our members, and how we communicate with our members and how and how we added value to our membership. So that’s, that’s my tip is please, programs like what you’re offering here, Brendan, are essential. They’re absolutely essential to to us. And I’ll be honest with you, I heard myself saying things in this discussion with you. And it was a little voice in the back of my head that said, hey, Michel, if you’re so damn smart, I’m coming. You’re not doing that. There’s an element of that. And I think that I think that that’s, you know, in the history of candor, I haven’t learned it all yet. And, and I’ve been doing this job for the better part of 40 years. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 29:51
alright, you’ve learned it, but you haven’t learned the lesson yet. Right?

Wayne Michell 29:54
Maybe Yeah,

Brandon Burton 29:56
yeah. I love it. I love the honesty and candor there That’s great. So I like to ask anything you kind of touched on it a little bit there. But as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Wayne Michell 30:15
Well, first of all, you know, when I first joined this, we were primarily if there was, wasn’t a lot of hard edges on Chambers of Commerce doing a job, we were a social organization, communities used to collaborate and, and that networking, I’ve seen chambers today play a much more serious and much more critical role in representing their communities. And that’s going to be an area of advocacy, we’re going to see chambers in the future, we’ll be less loved by folks other than our members. Because if we’re doing our job, people are going to be angry at us. But I, my constituents, I know where my bread is buttered as a chamber CEO in 2023. And that’s with representing the, the men and women that are paying my bills and are trying to do business in a regulated world. And our job is to be that wall, between the regulation and the business owner. And to try it, you know, and that, you know, the US Chamber of Commerce does an absolutely incredible job on the federal level. Here in Texas, we’re blessed to have Glen hammer and the Texas Association for Business, doing a great job on the state level. But those of us on the local level, guess what we are the most important lobbyist of the business community has. And if we fail to communicate with regulators and legislators, our businesses are going to be underserved. So to answer your question, where we’re going to change, and this, this applies to chambers at all sizes, is that we’re going to have to become more aggressive and more effective in a advocacy area, to represent the business community and be more effectively. And that and that will make us less loved by those folks other than the ones that are paying or paying our salaries. But guess what? They need representation. And today, it’s a difficult word to do business. I mean, that’s the bottom line.

Brandon Burton 32:07
Well, really any say be in less love. But really, I mean, most people work for somebody, if they’re not working for themselves, if they’re working for themselves, they shouldn’t be a member of the chamber, they should be investing in the work the Chamber’s doing, but if they’re an employee of that person, they should still want pro business, you know, policy and candidates and you know, everything in the in the community going for pro business. So I, I don’t know, I might push back that there might not be as as little love as you think, you know, there might be more love for chambers of actually stepping up and doing meaningful work.

Wayne Michell 32:41
So it’s funny, I think back years ago, I have a project, I had an issue that we had taken a very public stand on in the chamber. And it was a front page article. And I remember walking through the local supermarket with my cart, and having a woman blast me for the position that we took on that issue. And I I was I was tactful, and and so I went back to my office, and my board chairman, my board chairman called me just out of the blue and, and he detected I wasn’t very happy at that moment. He said, What’s up waiting? And I said, Well, Bill, I said, I just got blasted in the supermarket. And I said, I’m just recovering from it. I said the woman was angry with the position that you folks asked me to share. And he said, and you’re you’re, you’re doing what nice, and I’m just sitting here trying to rehabilitate, he said, I’ll be right down, and the other one was corroding drove to my office. You can’t imagine you shut the door. And he looked at me and he said, What do you want out of this deal? And I said, just and I use the words, I said, Look, I want to be loved, you know? And he looked at me and he said, Let me tell you, based on the position you took on our behalf, your love by the people that are sending you check, move on. And you know what? He’s absolutely right. If I do my job from time to time, somebody shouldn’t be angry at me. But that doesn’t mean that you know, I kiddingly say just because they’re wrong, doesn’t mean I don’t love them. And I suspect from time to time, I may be wrong, and hopefully they’ll love me, in that case, too. But that’s where the engine is. Look, we didn’t do any of that in the hardly any of that in the 70s and 80s. Let me tell you this job today, there, you’re making decisions on a routine basis now that if you’re doing your job well, we’ll just got give me 100% consensus on everything. It goes with the territory. But I will tell you this. I think I’ve evolved because I’ll be honest, we I kind of enjoy it today. Yeah, I mean, I wouldn’t be saying I just want to be loved anymore. I just want to be right.

Brandon Burton 34:54
Right, right. Yeah. No, I think you’re right. If you’re not if you’re not Making a stance, you know, if you are making a stance, you will have people that are upset. So if you’re not making people upset, that means you’re not making a strong enough stance. So, Wayne, I’ve appreciated the insights and experience that you shared with us so far, I wanted to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for listeners who’d like to reach out and connect with you and learn more from you throughout your career, and specifically how you tackle killing sacred cows, what would be the best way for them to reach out and connect with you?

Wayne Michell 35:32
Well, they’re certainly welcome to contact me here at the chamber at my email addresses president@nactx.com. And that’s probably the best way Brandon to get a hold of me. Know, give me a chance to but I have a question or a comment. Listen, I suspect there’ll be a few out there that probably disagree with some of the things that I’ve said, but I’m willing to, I’m willing to to, to accept that. And maybe, maybe they’re right, and I’m wrong. So if they’ve got a counter point of view, I certainly would welcome that. But at the same time, this can be a lonely business, if anybody ever wanted to anybody who ever wants to chat on the telephone, they’re welcome. I suspect your chat, you’ll you’ll share my telephone number here at the chamber. And they’re certainly welcome to call me and and we can we can talk about on one on one basis. Like I said, it can be a lonely business, because there’s not a lot of folks that do what we do in our region. So

Brandon Burton 36:36
that’s right. Yeah, yeah. And I will put that in your phone number and email in the show notes for this episode. So people can look that up. And there’s truth in that there’s a loneliness and leadership for sure you’re making stances that other people don’t totally understand or agree with. But absolutely, it’s important to have that network of people to lean upon and to learn from and and, yeah, this is, it’s been a great discussion. I really do appreciate you spending time with us today on the podcasts. And I think this I think it should motivate some people that are listening to really take a deep look at their organization, see what changes there are that that might need to be addressed. So thank you for that. Right.

Wayne Michell 37:20
Thank you, Ron. And thanks for the opportunity to join you today. This has been fun.

Brandon Burton 37:25

Brandon Burton 29:48
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Chamber Industry Success with Anissa Starnes

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your host, Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

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Let’s hear from Becky Womble, President of the Bastrop Chamber to hear about her experience with Community Matters.

Becki Womble 1:01
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Brandon Burton 1:29
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Our guests for this episode is Anissa Starnes. A lot of you may know Anissa, she is certainly no stranger to the chamber industry. She started her chamber career 32 years ago and has worked for and with Chambers of Commerce since that day. She is passionate about helping to recruit and retain strong talent for the industry and helping chambers strengthen their programs of work and revenue. You may know her as a faculty member of the US Chamber institutes for organization management, where she educates on board governance, revenue generation and all things related to chamber success. And Anissa has been retained for over 25 executive searches and has spoken in front of more than 35,000 people evangelizing on marketing storytelling and the importance of work life harmony.

Anissa, I’m excited to have you with us today on Chamber Chat Podcast, I’d love for you to take a moment to say hello to all the Chamber Champions and share something interesting about yourself so we can get to know you a little better.

Anissa Starnes 2:42
Great. Thank you, Brandon, I certainly appreciate you having me here with you and your audience today. And it’s a pleasure to be here with you. And as far as something interesting, gosh, the first thing that just popped into my mind is because I was telling the story yesterday, I actually ran a full marathon at 26.2 marathon before I ever ran a 5k. So I went big from the very beginning. I ended up doing four full marathons and then back down to half marathons and then five K’s. But I just decided to set that goal for myself and went big from the beginning. And it’s taught me a lot of life life lessons, as far as setting goals and training for them. And I’ve always said once you run a marathon, it really takes the word can’t out of your vocabulary. So it’s something I’m pretty proud of.

Brandon Burton 3:43
Yeah, so I don’t use the word can’t with it. But I’ve been a runner for probably the better part of 15 years, but I just have no desire to run a full marathon.

Anissa Starnes 3:53
I didn’t either Brandon, I really, I kind of got tricked into it for a charity fundraising. And I never loved it. It was for me all about the go and the metal at the end in the cold beer when you can celebrate but certainly never loved it either.

Brandon Burton 4:12
Yeah, done the half marathons and I’ll do that. But before I’m I just, I have no interest. So yeah, congratulations. I knew

Anissa Starnes 4:21
I did a half first I would never do the full because then you know, you have to double it.

Brandon Burton 4:26
Right. So it’s all about the mindset, right. So that’s right. Well, and so at this point, I usually will ask the guests that I have on to tell us about their chamber size staff budget. Rather than do that. How about you just give us kind of how you got to where you are now in your career and working with chambers. What does that look like? And what’s your involvement been, you know, from 32 years ago when he started to now?

Anissa Starnes 4:51
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I’ve been on staff at four different chambers all in the Carolinas. I started my career at the Charlotte you chamber where I live now and is my home, stayed there for almost 10 years and then move to chamber just a little south of Charlotte, and then to two other chambers in the Carolinas, took a break during that time and was the CEO of a nonprofit called Girls on the Run International, which is headquartered here in Charlotte, and is a self empowerment program for girls third through eighth grade. But even when I was with Girls on the Run, I was still teaching Institute and still very involved with chambers and went on to work for about eight years at Constant Contact, where I’ve probably met a lot of your listeners, through my work at constant contact in their chamber management program, and loved that. And then Constant Contact was purchased and bought out. So our division went away and went out on my own at that time and became a consultant. And so I’ve been here, there and everywhere, but always around in and around chamber work. And a year ago, a year ago, march 1, actually, I joined why GM total resource campaign, many of your listeners know Jason Eb, who’s the founder and president and CEO of YG. Em, and he and I have been friends for many years and have talked about working together. And we finally jumped off and did it a year ago. And it’s been a lot of fun. A lot of hard work. But it’s working out for us. That is fantastic.

Brandon Burton 6:35
How did you get your start your introduction to the chamber?

Anissa Starnes 6:40
Oh, gosh, everybody has one of those great stories, where we didn’t even know what a chamber was when we got there. But my sister worked for an employment agency and needed somebody to work six weeks a temporary assignment, while some one was on maternity leave. And I did not even know what a chamber was. When I got there, I was the assistant to the assistant to the president and CEO. And my job was to help plan the annual meeting. And when I say help plan, I use that loosely, my job was to get the name tags in the name tag holders basically, and but the person did not come back to work from her leave. And I was offered a job supporting the membership department. And I thought I would stay there for you know, a year or two until I decided what was next in my life. And I’ve never left. So I had a great mentor in Carroll Gray, who was my first chamber CEO, who eventually, you know, saw something in me and sent me to institute and really mentored me into the fact that it could actually be a lucrative career. And I fell in love with it, like so many people that are in the industry today. And so I’ve just, you know, kind of stuck with it.

Brandon Burton 8:00
I love that. And what a happy coincidence or placement or whatever you want to call it. I’m glad that you got placed to work on a temporary assignment. It’s made very well every day. That’s right. So as we wanted to introduce our topic for discussion today, and very loosely, we’re going to be talking about chamber industry success. And that can mean a whole lot of different things. We can take a lot of different angles to that. But just to give an idea. Some of the things that we’ll touch on in our conversation today is recruiting and retaining chamber staff being more career ready, fighting burnout, the importance of having a personal board, avoiding mission drift, and also the importance of finding the funding, if there’s two strategic partnerships to create those opportunities. And we will dive into this discussion as soon as we get back from this quick break.

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Brandon Burton 11:59
All right. And so we are back from our break. So we have a lot of things that we’ll touch on in this episode. And I imagine it’ll go at a pretty quick tempo. But as we start off, why don’t you touch on some of the the recruiting and retaining? What are some of those things that chamber staff should be looking for in that arena, towards having a successful chamber and just success in the industry?

Anissa Starnes 12:23
Sure, I think first and foremost is attitude. You know, I have been so blessed to have such great mentors my entire career, and more than one have shared with me, you know, look for the attitude, you can train the experience. But chamber work is not something you go to a four year school unnecessarily can learn all of the ins and outs. So looking for that right person that’s going to bring that positive attitude and that willingness to do whatever it takes every day. Because as we all know, when you get to work, no matter what your title is, you never know what’s going to happen to you that day and and what your responsibilities are going to be. So having that positive attitude is just key to success.

Brandon Burton 13:07
Absolutely. I think that is a huge factor to pay attention to as you’re looking to hire somebody but also anybody listening who’s already in their chamber role. Just pay attention to your attitude, pay attention to how you’re responding to members and, and staff and your board and volunteers to attitude. Really. They can go a long ways. absolutely can. Let’s let’s touch on being career ready. What are some things that the Chamber staff can do to be ready for their career, but also to help advance and further developing their career?

Anissa Starnes 13:42
Yeah, I think this, this would be a tip for everyone. Whether you are entry level, just getting started in a position at the Chamber, or whether you’re already a president and CEO, is to keep your resume updated. You know, so many people don’t start doing that until they’re looking for their next row. And it’s so much easier to keep it fresh and updated. Even if it’s not in a format where you can share at least keeping a ongoing list of all of your successes. We don’t often think of ourselves and share our successes so easily because we’re taught to put the volunteers out there. But we have successes as chamber staff so keeping an ongoing list. However you do that whether it’s in a spreadsheet or in a legal padding your desk, whatever works for you, but making sure that you keep up with all of your professional development, what conferences you attend, what courses you take, what sessions you lead, all of your your increase in your membership, your increasing your budget, all of your successes, just keeping a running list of it. That goes a long way in helping to build your resume, but also when you go to apply for your seat CEE through ACC II, the certified chamber exec or either your CAE through ASAE. That sounds like an awful lot of letters. But it helps keep that when you go to apply that you have that all at your fingertips to be able to track and look back at all of the things you’ve done. So that it makes it easier to not only apply for one of those certifications, but also to put it on your resume.

Brandon Burton 15:28
Yeah. So maybe you could touch on the and I love the all those tips about staying organized to have your your resume ready in at your fingertips. As far as the career readiness and advancement. Can you speak to a little bit about when a chamber professional maybe needs to look at making a change, maybe looking at another community to move to because I know you get so vested in one community, you almost feel like you’d be training them right? If you leave and go somewhere else. So help, you know through that mindset and that struggle, that internal battle that somebody may have?

Anissa Starnes 16:03
Well, I certainly and that’s a great question, Brandon, because I’ve certainly seen some people that think they’ve stayed too long, and then think they can’t make a move. And I don’t think that’s ever the case, I think you can make a move, and you know, when you’re ready to start looking at it. But also keeping in mind that you have to keep yourself and your family at the forefront of that, that everybody else is doing that your board’s going to expect you to do it. So keeping in mind with what your goals are, and knowing what your goals are. If you eventually want to lead a Metro Chamber, then you probably need to put some steps in place. You know, if you’re at a much smaller chamber, for instance, I mentioned Carol Gray, my first president CEO, he told me, you know, once I said I want to make this a career, he said you have to start planning to leave. And I didn’t really understand that at a young age. But he helped me see that I was going to have to leave a Metro Chamber, go to a much smaller chamber in order to move up. And, you know, looking at what that meant to me and what type of community I wanted to live in and my family. Just knowing what those goals are. And putting some steps into place is huge towards that. But yeah, I think everybody has to look out for yourself. And sometimes we’re not so good at that we look at look out for others first and making those moves, you kind of your gut will tell you, I’ve always been a good listener of my gut. But it tells you when it’s time to start putting some steps in a place to make that that next move.

Brandon Burton 17:44
And sometimes it’s hard for the servant leaders to think about themselves right to the next step for themselves. But this may even bring us to the next point of fighting burnout. Because I think sometimes that gut feeling is Gee, I’m really getting burned out here. In my current situation, let me see if it’s time to move tend to look on. Is that a factor to bring into it? Or how can they address the burnout issue as a chamber exec or even chamber staff? Because it seems like the clock never turns off? Right? You’re always seem to be on?

Anissa Starnes 18:15
Oh, gosh, we would need a whole week to talk about this. Because I’ve certainly lived it and been through it and have talked about it for the last couple of years. And and it’s it’s something our industry faces for sure. Every day. I wish I could remember who who I can attribute this to that shared this with me years ago, but they said, Never send an email. Never write on social when you’re upset and never quit your job when you’re having a bad day. Because tomorrow’s is likely to be a really good day. And so burnout, we’ve certainly just like every industry, we have lost a lot of good people over the last couple of years. Because since COVID, I would go out on a limb and say that chamber professionals have worked harder these last three years than ever in the history of chambers. They were called on to do things that nobody else before them had ever been called on to do and to take the brunt of, of or the responsibility rather of taking care of the business community at large in a big way. And so even before that, we saw burnout, but we certainly have seen it the last couple of years. And I would push back on the you’re always own. And I do push back on that a lot. I’m

Brandon Burton 19:33
glad to do. Yeah,

Anissa Starnes 19:35
I push back on that with with professionals all the time when I hear them say it’s a 24/7 job 365. You know, chamber folks are doing a critically important job. But it is not the end of the world. It’s not if they take a day off. I’ve heard somebody say you know we’re not curing cancer. I wish we were but we’re not. What we’re doing is very, very important work, but not as important as taking care of ourselves and putting our families first. And it’s still going to be there, whether we take a week off, or two weeks off, take a sabbatical, come back even stronger. I owe my entire career. And then I’m sitting here talking to you today, because I had a president and CEO that that saw was burnout and said, Hey, you’re gonna go take some time off, and I’m gonna pay you for it. But you’re gonna go take a few weeks off and come back stronger. And I thought he had lost his mind. Because I wanted to just keep plugging along. And I was too important to be missed. So I thought, and I really think I would have ended up quitting and going somewhere else. Had he not given me that time. And we’ve just got to take care of ourselves first. And it’s, you know, that, that analogy of putting on your own oxygen mask first, before you put your put it on your community and your members. It’s so true. But yeah, it’s, we can do our job. And chamber professionals can do their job just as effectively, if not more. So, when they take time to take care of themselves first,

Brandon Burton 21:25
right, I actually just got back from a week long cruise, and I chose to not buy the internet package. So I was forcing myself for a week to be totally disconnected. And to be honest, it was a gift to my wife for anniversary, she’s like I see all the distraction, I just need you for a week. So it was fantastic. So I would totally encourage a cruise with no internet to anybody listening. But also you lean on your staff lean on your volunteers lean on your board to help pick up some of those pieces, it doesn’t need to all be on your shoulders. And if you can, properly you know, work with them. And as a leader to work with them, you should be able to take some time off and have the confidence that your team is going to keep things going while you’re away.

Anissa Starnes 22:10
Well, I would I would add to that to Brandon that CEOs are sometimes really good at telling their staff to do it. And then they’re not doing it themselves. And staff, staff watch the leaders. And they emulate what they see. And so I would encourage not only the staff members to do it, but the CEOs themselves because it’s just critical. And we have we have some chambers now in the network that are doing a really good job of it. And COVID has helped fortunately, kind of break away from those old traditional ones. And I’ve seen a lot of chambers. What’s the word I’m looking for actually revised their entire operations manual to give more vacation days as the chambers now some going to unlimited vacation days as long as the metrics are met. So there’s some cool new things happening out there that people have modified their their employee manuals to make sure that that we’re taking care of our teams.

Brandon Burton 23:17
Yeah, I love that so important. Another important thing that I see is the importance of having a personal board of directors for yourself. Talk to us about that. What does that mean, from your perspective? And I have some thoughts as well.

Anissa Starnes 23:31
Well, it’s one of the things I learned it institute that wasn’t in a classroom setting. It happened just over, you know, dinner one night, somebody said, Do you have a personal board? And I said, What does that even mean? Yes, I have a board of directors. And they said no, who are your personal board? Who are the people you trust the most to tell you the truth. Whether you need to look in the mirror, do things differently, who are people who are going to not just tell you what you need to hear, but provide you input based on on what you need to hear not what you want to hear, doesn’t have to be a big group, it can be four or five people. It doesn’t even have to be people in your same industry. But people that you respect that you look up to that you want to emulate, and use them. It doesn’t do you any good to have them if you don’t actually use them whether that doesn’t have to be a monthly meeting, by any means. But people that you can just pick up the phone and call and say, Hey, this is what I’m facing. And I think I know what I need to do. But let me run it by you and be willing to listen to what they have to say. But I’m very, very fortunate that I have a great board of directors personally and I know that they won’t tell me just what I want to hear that they’re going to be honest and open with me and that has really helped guide me throughout my career both personally and professionally.

Brandon Burton 24:59
Yeah, know that is so good, I part of a small we call it a mastermind. So it’s our own little personal board that we can do that, you know, we can have honesty, we bounce ideas off each other say, here’s a problem I’m facing right now and be able to get some ideas where you’re thinking more than just your own thoughts, and be able to get a little more clarity on things. In fact, a while ago, I had Betty kept standing on the on the podcast, and she referred to her board as her kitchen cabinet. I loved it, you know, you’re you’re in your kitchen, oftentimes, and you’re on a zoom call with him or phone call. And it’s just that personal to her in the friendships that develop out of it are just amazing.

Anissa Starnes 25:38
So absolutely.

Brandon Burton 25:41
So let’s, let’s touch a little bit on mission drift, I think that can also play into the burnout side of things. But having that clear focus on mission, what can chambers do to avoid that, that drift from away from their mission?

Anissa Starnes 25:56
Well, you know, this, this might be an unpopular opinion, the way I’m gonna say it, but in some ways, I think COVID was one of the best things to ever happen to the chamber industry, certainly not COVID in the pandemic itself, and how it negatively affected the world. But what it did do is it gave the chamber industry a time to stop doing what we’ve always done, and look at things differently. And I’ve seen a lot of chambers change their program of work since COVID. And have stopped saying yes to everything. And chambers for so long have been the catch all of everything. And then community of, well, we need somebody to do this. Well, let’s give it to the chamber, they can do it. And the chamber has historically said yes to a lot of those things. And what I’ve seen now is chambers are have moved the other way to saying Does that fit our mission? And if the answer is no, then we’re saying no to doing it. We might support it, we might assist with it, but we’re not going to lead it. And so I think it’s critical that chambers really know what their mission is. And stick to that and let that be the the beacon that that leads them just to saying yes, or saying no, when asked to take something on and building the program of work around their mission. And there’s nothing wrong in the world with chambers doing events, and programs that, you know, they create, and that they want to be non dues, revenue generators. But everything chambers do should fit their mission. And I’m starting to see that that a lot more chambers are have been kind of open to that of you know, let’s stop saying yes all the time and making sure it makes sense for the organization.

Brandon Burton 27:58
Right, and look at some of those other C’s right, you can be that convener to bring those ideas and present them to another organization who might be better fitted better suited to take it. And you can still be a champion for that event or that whatever that initiative is, but just not the main driving champion of it. And and still be supportive. So and no doesn’t have to be a no completely, I guess, is what we’re getting at. All right. So now that the important thing that I know everybody’s hanging on to hear about is the funding, you know, creating strategic, strategic parts, I can’t speak, creating strategic sponsorship programs to be able to fund these activities that your chamber does, what are what are some thoughts and maybe some, I don’t know, a brainstorm of different ideas that chamber can explore.

Anissa Starnes 28:46
Well, one thing that that makes my partnership and me going to work with why GM, so much fun is it’s really been refreshing for me to see the change on that side of things. I started my career, as I mentioned in membership, and I was one of the first I think second, Charlotte was the second chamber to ever do a total resource campaign after Atlanta. And I went kicking and screaming to transition from a membership campaign over to a total resource campaign. And total resource campaigns TRCs for short, have changed so much over the years, thankfully, to YG Yum, who really has a strong business model. And I would say this if I was not working with YG and right now it’s why I’ve always been a fan of their work is it’s looking at sponsorships differently. We really don’t even use the word sponsorship. We use business opportunities and advertising opportunities. It’s a way to engage members that might only pay their dues every year, but otherwise never show up. Never engage. They you’d support the chamber by their membership that that’s it, and presenting the opportunities in a way that engages the member and puts them in a position to partner and to sponsor events and programs and initiatives that they really believe in. It just heightens their their awareness and heightens their public the public’s view of their company by partnering with a program initiative or any event that they believe in. So there’s a lot of money being left on the table we see with chambers, because a lot of chambers develop their sponsorships based on what they’ve always done. Like, for instance, I was on a chamber website yesterday, and I saw they had this fantastic event, it was a women’s event. But their sponsorships levels were 1000 for the top 750 502 50. And when I went back and looked at years before their sponsorship levels were the exact same. And we all know we’re paying more every day when we go to the store to the gas pump, whatever. chambers are paying more now for their catering, their signage, their venues. But they haven’t looked at what they’re charging their members to make sure that they’re not only covering their cost, but they’re making the non dues revenue they should be making on the sponsorships. So just taking a look and evaluating your sponsorship levels, making sure that the deliverables match the dollar that you’re charging. And looking at it with a fresh set of eyes is huge. There’s so much opportunity there for chambers to start with a clean, fresh sheet of paper and develop their sponsorship opportunities. And then sell them whether you do it through a trc or whether you’re doing it with a staff driven marketing, execution, whatever it is just evaluating what you’re offering, and making sure that the levels match the deliverables that you’re agreeing to give.

Brandon Burton 32:14
Absolutely. So a lot of people know that I got into chamber industry, you can say through chamber publishing. So I see, you know, I often joke about feeling like a bartender as I would go out and meet with Chamber members about advertising. And there would be a sense of guilt of you know, I joined I joined the chamber two years ago or three years ago, all I ever do is pay my dues because I can’t make it to the luncheons you know, I’m busy, I can’t make it to the after hours. I can’t do these things. But I like the chamber. Like the work they’re involved with. I like their mission, I want to support it. And they see that advertising as a way it’s an avenue to accomplish those things. It’s a way to be supportive of the chamber without being at all the things. So as you’re talking about sponsorship and business opportunities, I’m just a second witness, you can say that there are businesses out there that are ready and willing to give your organization money because they believe in what you’re doing. But they don’t see that clear path right now as to what that best avenue would be. Absolutely. Here’s a lot of opportunity. What is it? This has been great. We’re not done yet, though. So I’d like to ask if you might have a tip or an action item, for chambers that are listening who would like to take their chamber up to the next level? What would you suggest?

Anissa Starnes 33:37
This is gonna give some listeners heartburn? I’m afraid if I say it, but I’m gonna say it anyway. saying no. Saying no to being asked to serve on yet another committee saying no to taking on a new event that someone in the community thinks is a great idea. Saying no to taking on more work that doesn’t fit your mission. Say no, once you learn how is a lot easier than you think it is. And you really don’t have to give a whole lot of explanation as to why you’re saying no. But just saying no, that the timing is not right for us. Or no, we don’t think that’s in our mission. Or no, I don’t have the bandwidth to do that. Whatever that is. I get asked a lot by new execs, what is the number one thing you think I should do in my first six months as a new executive? My answer is always say no to joining every thing you’re asked to join. Because as a new CEO, or as an existing CEO, really even as as chamber staff. We get asked to participate in everything. Because we know everybody we know everything They think, and they want us on their boards, they want us in Rotary, they want us here, they’re in everywhere. And that first six months, and really even after, if your bandwidth is full, just saying, No, I can’t take that on right now, we’ll go a long way towards helping with the burnout. The first six months, first of all, should be spent getting your own house in order and learning the business of the chamber where you are, if you’re new, if you’re an existing staff member, or CEO, you know, just you want to give 110% on any board you sit on. And you really can’t do that if you’re serving eight to 10 boards, and doing a disservice, I think, to those that you do say yes to if you’re over committing. So saying no, I think is is something hard for most of us to learn. But once we do, it really can help a lot in going a long way towards helping you stay stay focused on on the task at hand.

Brandon Burton 36:08
Yeah. And I like to the simple response. He said, just No, I don’t have the bandwidth right now. Because really, you don’t owe an explanation to everybody. But you know, there’s going to be some expectation on their ends that will Why are you telling me no, and that’s a simple enough without getting into the weeds as to why it doesn’t align with your mission or whatever, just I just don’t have the bandwidth right now, that should be sufficient. So I always like asking everybody, as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward, you

Anissa Starnes 36:41
guys have seen so much change over the last couple of years that I think is a positive change. ACCE has been instrumental in leading this in the industry, but keeping chambers on track, again, with the mission, and we’ve talked a lot about that today. But I am seeing chambers take on some really audacious programming and initiatives that years ago, we wouldn’t have touched with a 10 foot pole, whether that’s, you know, workforce development, childcare issues, you know, social justice issues, I’m seeing chambers really take on the big stuff. And it is making chambers even more relevant than they’ve always been. And, you know, it’s, it’s easy to show the value to the business community of what a chamber of commerce membership can do for you, you know, years ago, we used to tell everybody, and anybody that’s listening, that’s been here, you know, in the chamber work more than 10 years has certainly probably used this, of, you know, the chamber is just like a gym membership, you have to go, and you have to show up and put on your shoes and get on the treadmill. So you have to be on a committee, you have to show up in an event. And that is not true anymore. We should never say that. chambers are working for the business community every single day, whether you show up or not. So if you do have someone that says I can’t be on a committee, I can’t come to business after hours, I can’t, you know, lead a task force. That’s okay, we’re working just as hard for you every single day. But we have to be able to tell that story of how we’re doing that, we have to wave the flag and say, This is the good stuff we’re working on. This is the success we’ve had. This is where we need your support. Because chambers are more relevant today than ever, I believe. And a lot of great work is being done in communities. And I just it’s an exciting time to be a part of the chamber community because chambers have seen it, they’ve they’ve started making those changes, they’ve stopped doing some of the events, they’ve always done just to make $2,000. They’re putting their resources, both monetary and human resources towards things that are really making an impact. So I just believe it to my soul that that chambers are making more of an impact today than ever,

Brandon Burton 39:14
while they’re doing the work that’s making the impact and the funding is available to drive it to so instead of just writing like the example you gave, of exerting all these resources to get $2,000 In return, you can be involved in much more important and meaningful work. And there’s businesses willing to support that financially to help drive it 100% agree. Yeah. Well, and so this has been great. I really appreciate you joining us here on Chamber Chat Podcast today I’d like to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for listeners who may not be connected with you already. What would be the best way for them to reach out and connect with you.

Anissa Starnes 39:53
Thank you for that opportunity. And if anybody’s listening that knows me you know I love social media. So absolutely Connect with me on Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram. But certainly my email is anissa@ygmtrc.com.

Brandon Burton 40:12
Good deal, we will get that in the show notes, both links to your social media accounts and your email. So anyone listening who’s on the treadmill or out running a marathon right now while they’re listening, they can check the show notes and they get back that and this I really do appreciate you setting aside some time and, and going through all these really powerful topics. I think that all lead to chamber industry success. So thank you for doing that and spending time with us today.

Anissa Starnes 40:40
Thank you, Brandon. And thank you for all you do for the industry. You’ve had some great podcast. I’ve always enjoyed listening and thank you for all you do.

Brandon Burton 40:50
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Reinventing Chamber Brand with Lindsay Griffin-Boylan

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your host Brandon Burton, and it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

Our title sponsor is Holman Brothers Membership Sales Solutions. Let’s hear from Tony Felker, President and CEO of the Frisco Chamber to learn how the Holman Brothers have provided value for him.

Tony Felker 0:37
One of the key benefits that we’ve realized from Holman Brothers it’s actually happened many years after we started using them. We just completed our new strategic plan and understanding those subtle differences between transactional benefits and transformational benefits. The companies that knew what they expect has been a key part in our strategic plan. And we really want to thank Holman Brothers for that.

Brandon Burton 1:00
You can learn more about Holman Brothers Membership Sales Solutions by visiting holmanbros.com.

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Our guest for this episode is Lindsey Griffin Boylan. Lindsay is the president and CEO of the Greater Wyoming Valley Chamber in Pennsylvania. She’s a graduate of LaSalle University where she received her bachelor’s degree in business. Lindsay began her career at the Greater Wyoming Valley Chamber as the events and program manager and has since worked her way into her current position as president CEO, and is the first woman and young professional to hold the position since the organization began in 1884. In her pre chamber life, she worked for Comcast spectator that Philadelphia 70 Sixers while cobia arena, Mohegan Sun and Pocono downs, and Genetti Hotel Conference Center. Hopefully I’m saying those right. Lindsay is passionate and engaged with the community and is a board member and committee member of several organizations in the Northeast Pennsylvania area, all working towards betterment of their community. She was born and raised in northeastern Pennsylvania and currently resides in Harvey’s Lake, and is proud to be able to live work and play in the area she grew up in, and be able to make a difference each day. Lindsay, welcome to chamber chat Podcast. I’m excited to have you with us today, I’d love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the chamber champions that are out there listening and share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better.

Lindsay Griffin-Boylan 2:59
Yeah, thank you so much, Brandon, I’m very happy to be here. And I know my team and I are big fans of this because I think we’re all trying to really connect with in our chamber industry and, and really the past few years having all their challenges, can you learn new things and the ideas and I know something that we’re all really striving towards, as we’re all trying to help our community. So I’m really, really excited to be here today. And certainly share what I can and, you know, happy to happy to connect with everybody that’s listening. Something interesting about myself, I think, really, you kind of read my bio, and it’s a little bit, I think, a little different and unique as to how I got here. But you know, I think that I had always been really an event lover, I love bringing people together. I like to kind of seeing that collectiveness. And, yeah, I mean, I started out my chamber, really not knowing what a chamber was about seven years ago, now seven and half years ago, and really just saw what the role was in the community, and just really fell in love with all of it. So I think, really had just worked my way up into the current position that I have now. And I think it’s a really exciting time to be in industry. It’s a tiring time at the same time, but it’s a really cool way that we’re all sort of reinventing. So I was really in sports marketing. That’s what I kind of came out as, and that was really my first my first job essentially, when I and I left the area I originally was from NEPA. I left and said, Hey, I want to, you know, want to kind of get out of here and I moved to Philadelphia had some great experiences out there and realized really how incredible this area was. And when I came back, I knew I wanted to be part of making a change and making it so that you know and goal is our younger people. We end up retaining them they don’t want to leave they want to stay here and make this their home. So I think my Interesting thing is kind of how I’ve gotten here, but I’m very happy to be here at the same time.

Brandon Burton 4:48
Very good. Thank you for sharing that background. I can see you know, a lot of young people going through school sports marketing is very attractive. You know, it’s a it’s a glamorous type proposition and I can see where that attracts people chamber work not so much like you said, you came into it not really knowing what a chamber does. And I don’t think you’re too different than other people. And that way is to get, you know, being introduced to chamber work. But we’re glad you’re here. So thank you. Unless you tell us a little bit about the greater Wyoming Valley Chamber just to give us an idea of size, scope of work, staff budget, that sort of thing, just to give us some perspective, before we dive into our conversation,

Lindsay Griffin-Boylan 5:28
sir, yes, so we are located right in the works bare sort of Scranton area in northeastern Pennsylvania, we were formerly known as the greater Wilkesboro Chamber of Commerce, and that we’ll talk about that in a little bit. I know. But we have rebranded to the greater Wyoming Valley Chamber of Commerce about two and a half years ago. And really, that was to be representative of a lot of our members to make sure that we were servicing, you know, everyone in our community in the best way possible, and really start to get that collectiveness that we know that regions that are doing, you know, the collective sort of way of working together, are seeing success. So we represent a little over 600 Members, we have a team of 10. So my incredible team who really has just been so amazing at pivoting, reinventing the wheel looking at new things. So, you know, we’re able to really focus on a few different areas that we’ll talk about today. But we also so we have our chamber of commerce division, we also have our chamber of business and industry, which is our 501 C three, and it’s our foundation, which is allowing us to do a lot of our workforce development, economic development, and what houses our entrepreneurial development, which is called books fair connect. And then we also, you know, have many different affiliates that will fall under that as far as our councils, our committees. So we are really covering, I’d say a wide variety of, you know, we have our government affairs, we have, you know, our women’s network, our Young Professionals Network, we have a nonprofit network, so many different, you know, items that are going to kind of umbrella underneath that. But my incredible team, really kind of each manages one of those aspects and collectively, we operate as the greater Wyoming Valley Chamber of Commerce. So

Brandon Burton 7:16
that definitely gives some good perspective and kind of teasing the topic a little bit as far as what we’ll be focusing our conversation on today around reinventing the chamber brand so you had mentioned about two and a half years ago, you guys really dove in into making that change. So we’ll we’ll dive in much deeper into why that what drove that and what that experience is like as soon as you get back from this quick break.

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Richard Scully 8:52
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Donna Novitsky 9:36
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Brandon Burton 10:34
All right, Lindsay, we’re back. So I’m curious, you had mentioned as you were telling about your chamber, that you guys went about, I guess, the beginning of this rebrand about two and a half years ago. And, you know, curiously, I’m just wondering, does it have anything to do with COVID during that timeframe, and taking a deeper look at your organization, what you had to offer?

Lindsay Griffin-Boylan 10:57
Yeah, actually, interestingly, happened right before COVID. So we had, I think one of the big things that my team and I had really been very focused on was we have a lot of different, you know, in our area, and it’s a smaller territory, we had a lot of, we have many different chambers, covering different communities, we had many different economic development organizations. And what we noticed was that really, unless you were in our sphere, it was really hard to understand what was here, what resources were available. So if we did have a business, you know, moving into the area, or looking at our area, or a family that wanted to relocate here, there wasn’t really that one stop place to kind of, you know, collectively get those resources. We always say we’re never the ones that are doing every single piece of this work, you know, we never want to reinvent the wheel, we have a lot of amazing partners, but we wanted to make it easier for everyone else to find them. So with the rebrand, you know, I think we were representing members that were all throughout the Wyoming Valley. So we really wanted to reposition ourselves as our tagline is elevate the valley. So we use elevate symbol, which I really love, because elevate to us is really just kind of getting, you know, making sure that our residents or businesses are connected in the best way possible for success. And that goes beyond, you know, just obviously, we’re very focused on businesses and you know, recruiting retention, and ensuring the ones that are here are successful. But we also know that there has to be a lot of work done on, you know, our residents here and quality of life that we need to make this the best place to live, work and play. So with with the rebrand, we wanted to kind of not only sort of reinvent what our chamber was, our chamber has been around since 1884, we were heavily involved in real estate. So we, you know, had that was a very strong background of ours, a lot of our programs and initiatives sort of had taken a little bit of a backseat at that time, as that’s really what the organization’s focus was. So as we moved into the future, you know, and we got the team on board that we have now we noticed what the need was in our community. To have an organization like this, you know, not only do we change the name, but we changed the logo, we changed the way we operate, we changed the way that we did membership, as far as making sure that our door was open to anyone and everyone, especially to be a part a lot of those councils I talked about, you don’t have to be a chamber member to sit on diversity, equity and inclusion or women’s network or young professionals. We welcome anyone and everyone to the table, because we noticed and one of the things when I came on board was, you know, I noticed a lot of the people that were on our board and other boards and you know, different organizations were a lot of the same people. And we weren’t really seeing that. The diversification that we know what community needs, if you really want to help anyone and everyone, it’s having that representation, making those decisions and feeling like you know, they want to sit at that table. And they can and they can be a part of their area and moving their area forward. So we did a lot of work, not only, like I said, just on the outside of what our logo looks like, and what our website looked like, and what our membership guide looked like, but really who we are in the community and what our position was. And that’s been a lot of the work over the past few years, but really started with the rebrand.

Brandon Burton 14:05
Yeah, I think a name and a logo. Those are very much the surface things right? That’s it. Everybody sees that you think of the rebrand. But really, as I hear this, it’s an opportunity for you to look at what synergies there are, you know, as you have different volunteers working with different organizations, how can you bring things together, but also taking a look at maybe reevaluating and in the scope of work that you guys were involved with? And you You touched a little bit on that by being involved with real estate and as you went about the rebrand, what was that experience? Like looking at the work that you were involved with? And then really making a concerted focus on what the chamber needed to be focused on?

Lindsay Griffin-Boylan 14:39
Yeah, I mean, I think always right, and we’re doing this constantly as chamber professionals of what is our role, what is the need in the community, it’s going to change, you know, every few years and based on what happens and certainly pandemic was, I always say I think the pandemic was an acceleration for change that had been happening for a while I think chambers rarely had to look at themselves. And this was pre pandemic of how am I, you know, how will I be relevant? What is the value? How are we reinventing ourselves to keep up with this next generation, what businesses are now looking for? We know that younger people are participating differently with their communities with different organizations and memberships. So we started to look at that prior and I think that the pandemic completely accelerated that change where you had to look at Where’s where are the gaps in my community right now? What can I fell? And I always say, during the pandemic, I think we were a little bit of everything to everyone. I think that’s what we all did, right? We were trying to kind of help residents find, you know, medical information, we were trying to help businesses get funding and grants and understand the programs that were coming out from the state and federal level. But we were also just trying to push out anything we could to help our communities. And so I feel like now it’s at a place where we’re able to kind of hone in on really, what is our mission? Now. I mean, I think, who, while our mission hasn’t necessarily changed, the way we execute that has to be so I think, looking at our past is really interesting for me always, because our organization was very involved in essentially developing a lot of land now, that is booming in our community. So a lot of our industrial parks, and they’re full, we have, you know, world class businesses that are right here in northeastern Pennsylvania. And so that was a great place for us to be at at that time of making sure this area gets developed for the future and, and secure that, and that is what happens. And I think now is we’re able to say, where are we needed? Now? I think, you know, we just launched our 2023 2025 strategic plan. And I think it’s really great to be able to look at, you know, what is happening now that we’re kind of moving into this next period of, you know, post pandemic, and and where are the needs. And I think for us, it’s, you know, business and community advocacy is a big goal of ours, workforce development, workforce pipeline development, which we know is such a buzzword. And, you know, we have a lot of cool pilot programs, we’re really big on pilot programs and grants that we do to see how things work. And then, you know, work on partnerships that we can see those continued in the community. regional connectivity, like I said, I’m never a go it alone person either, as my team, I think there’s a lot of great organizations, I think we all have our heads down, and we’re working 100 miles a minute. But I know that when we can collectively put that into one package, that’s where we’re going to see a lot of that regional success. And we have so I think that’s a continued, it’s a pillar for us now, to continue those strong. The strong regional partnerships to solve the area’s most pressing issues. And quality of life, like I mentioned, is a huge focus of ours, I think that we know that without a healthy, you know, nonprofit community business community, giving our residents the resources that they need, we won’t have that workforce that we all want, right, we won’t have the continued continued success that we want to see happen in the area. So you’ll see us also do a lot of things on the quality of life side, I’ll be involved in community concerts, and a lot of young professional events, youth events, you know, getting out there and being a part of a lot of the different things that are making this area one that people enjoy and want to live in. So those are really the four things that we majorly focus on. And it’s interesting to kind of look at the plants from years ago as to where we are now, Mission still the same, we’re just doing it very differently to be relevant to what our community needs.

Brandon Burton 18:20
Right? I love how you mentioned that you guys are big on pilot programs, because it gives you a chance to kind of test the waters, see if it’s something that chamber wants to take on or find that community partner that you could, you know, hand things off to or partner with. Along the way with the rebrand or even leading up to it. What did you guys do as far as collecting data, maybe surveys or feedback to kind of course, the direction that the Chamber needed to go looking into the future?

Lindsay Griffin-Boylan 18:48
Yeah, I mean, we had, when we really started on a lot of this work, too, we had worked with Kyle Sexton, who really helped us look at our membership guide, and we looked at the tiered use model of really making sure that again, we were offering the most value we can so we really, we had we had, you know, pulled our membership, you know, asked about kind of what the relevant things were to them, what they were finding the most benefit from, that led us to our to dues transition which we underwent, which again, is still something that is very successful for us. And I think, you know, something that we’re definitely glad we did to see that retention, again, allowing members to participate in the way that is most beneficial to them. And also, it’s helped us out on you know, generate a little extra revenue in the membership department when we know, that’s just been a challenge, you know, nationally for years. So, we also kind of looked at all of our programs and we you know, talked with our boards, we talked to our members, and we you know sort of really asked what do you guys you know, what is still relevant here? What, what are we doing that we shouldn’t be doing? What are we doing that you want to see more of and what are we not doing at all that you really feel like we should be a part of, so we did a lot of that back work, you know, through mainly a lot of those conversations, but also through our Have some surveys that had been put out there to discuss, like what kind of programming would be relevant, and reaching out to new communities that, frankly, were never involved with us and never had anything to do with us really didn’t have that trust in a chamber to say, you know why? What could we do to really make sure you have a seat at the table and that you want to be involved and that you feel welcomed, and that we’re inclusive, and that this is something you want to be a part of. And that’s still a lot of work we do to this day, because it’s, you know, it’s something that we’re still very focused on. So a lot of back end work is done to get initially sort of the focus of where we were going to go with the rebrand and kind of the relaunch of all of our programs and initiatives. But that work continues to this day. It’s it’s an ever, ever flowing process of really, again, understanding the community’s needs and making sure that’s fitting into our mission.

Brandon Burton 20:47
That leads perfectly into my next thought I was thinking as a chamber goes to rebrand, like, I don’t think you can officially say, All right, we’re done. You know, the rebranding is complete. It’s never ending, right? It just keeps going. You keep evolving as a chamber as you continue to stay relevant to your community. But as you were going through this intensive process of a rebrand, were there any gaps that you noticed or surprises that came up as you were either gathering that data or trying to implement a new direction?

Lindsay Griffin-Boylan 21:17
I think that some of the feedback from the community was not surprising. I think some people, though, still really are challenged to understand what a chamber is what a chamber does, what specifically we were doing. I think the model of a lot of people still thinking that you had to be on a board or be certain level to participate and be part of conversations is still something that we work towards. I think that the general and not that it’s a negative, I think people had a sort of connotation of really what our sphere was. And, you know, I think that misunderstanding and really telling our story and having people understand who we are, what we do, and what the mission of the chamber is, is one that, you know, remains to be a challenge. I think it’s always something we all have to be clear on. And I know that as we’re all doing many different things. And a lot of organizations, like I said, you know, we have an economic development side and a chamber side and really having people understand truly what we do, I think was something that was eye opening during that process. But I think it also encouraged us to tell our story about our to make sure that we can be brought back chamber ambassadors to really help us get the mission out there and, and strengthen that, you know, making our social media clear. Again, making sure to have those one on one conversations with, you know, people that we wanted to have involved with us that represented different communities to sort of break down those barriers of sometimes I don’t want to say it was a negative connotation, but I think they had a very clear picture in their mind of what a chamber was, and really reintroducing what that means now for the community and who we are. So I think that was really one of the challenges that and then of course, when you change your name, right, I think that was a little bit of confusion for for a minute of how we how we got that transition, but honestly, I think just continuing to be very cohesive. And you know, we have an excellent marketing team here. But how we were putting that out there so that people really understood that change, but also that it was still, you know, our organization and making sure that all made a lot of sense when we put it out there and packaged up.

Brandon Burton 23:26
So I have to ask, did you guys crack the code on being able to communicate clearly what a chamber does to your community?

Lindsay Griffin-Boylan 23:34
I don’t think we’ve cracked the code, I think we’ve gotten a few of the digits on the code lockbox. But it’s something we always work towards. I mean, I think that we have certainly done and through through social media, through outreach, through our ambassadors, through all the many people, I think one of the coolest things that we did was, and I sort of mentioned this, but we opened up all of our councils to anyone, so they didn’t have to have an affiliation. And that’s helped us a lot, because now we have, you know, young professionals has over 500 500 of them that that are joining into that effort. Di we have, you know, now extremely great council that sort of leads that and, you know, there’s there’s a few 100 people that will be involved with that when we do those efforts, women’s network. So having all of them really, you know, cultivating those groups, and essentially having them understand your mission, who we are, who the team is, what we’re doing and getting that out, there has been a huge piece to us those, getting the community involved and having them sort of help us get that message out there and tell the story. I mean, we did start doing a lot of different mediums where obviously we use social and we show you know all the cool things the team is up to and what the community is doing. But we do a piece once a quarter, we’re still a big print area here in northeastern Pennsylvania in the paper that talks about all those councils and members and you know what’s happening in the community. So I think we’ve tried to reach people in many different ways. And and, you know, speaking in high school, speaking at colleges, all those different things to try to really get that message of who we are out there is a lot of the work that we’ve been doing, I still think we have a lot of work to do on that, especially because you know, this year, we’re sort of, again, putting a new strategic plan out, and you’re gonna see us in doing some different things. So I think that will always be, but we rely on our wonderful media partners in the area, we rely on our ambassadors. And, you know, it’s one of our actual goals, when we talk a little bit more about what our pillar that’s quality of life is telling our story better, but also telling the area story better. So when someone says, Hey, I want to move my business or my family to Northeastern PA, we have a really cool way that, you know, we’re putting those things together and with all of our partners, of course, to really clearly show how this area is that best place and that, you know, we can help link them. And that’s essentially what I think we are at the end of the day, we’re a convener of all these great things in this community. And we’re the ones that can bring all that together, and fill in the gaps where needed. But you know, convening those conversations, being the ones that kind of bring all those pieces into one place, and, and helping to create that change.

Brandon Burton 26:15
I like the idea of leading that community involvement. So then those community members can go out and tell the story of hey, this is what the Chamber’s involved with. I think that’s very smart. And to be able to get them involved in different levels, like you mentioned, the high schools and the colleges. I’d like to have you to maybe touch a little bit more on the social media outreach that you do, because I don’t imagine you guys are saying, Here’s the definition of what a chamber is, or here’s what our mission is necessarily, but how are you telling the story of your chamber through social media?

Lindsay Griffin-Boylan 26:46
Yeah, I mean, we, we really tried to, again, focus a lot on, you know, putting out the different programs, we have the different events, we have things like that, but telling it more. So from a perspective of, you know, if it was one of the pilot programs, we did an economic development to help kids with coding skills or something like that, telling the story about success. I’m telling the story of the businesses that are, you know, ribbon cuttings, and the different types of things that we have really connecting with those members, and telling those stories. So I think we really tried to make it less of an advertisement for the chamber, but more so showing through those types of really, you know, I think personalizing it in a way that’s really showing the different touch points that we have in the community. So I think that we use social as a tool of, you know, enjoying the team, when we’re when we’re out, having lunch somewhere and having fun, or we’re supporting heart month right now, which it is, you know, and helping our local hospitals and medical organizations really promoting that we’ve we’ve tried to really make it something that looks, you know, inviting and welcoming, and that we’re part of this community and, and showing that through all the different pieces that we have. Because I think when we’re highlighting, yes, we’re having, you know, we’re at an event or we’re having, you know, this this government affairs or, you know, we’re doing this, we’re launching a new workforce program. I think showing those in sort of more of a storytelling mode is the way that we’ve really started to capture a lot of people that are following us that are engaging with it. So I again, we have a great marketing team here that that has really focused on that and making sure that we’re telling that story in a good way. That’s that’s welcoming more people into that mix.

Brandon Burton 28:26
That’s fantastic. So I wanted to ask, just as a point of clarity, you mentioned at the beginning, when you were talking about your chamber kind of scope of work, and everything you had mentioned, you guys have a foundation was a foundation set up prior to the rebrand and I’m asking because for a chamber who may be considering a rebrand, should they consider introducing a foundation into their chamber as part of that rebrand?

Lindsay Griffin-Boylan 28:53
Yeah, so our foundation was set up prior. So we did have a C three prior to that rebrand. But you know, this, that entity, which essentially is what our economic development is run through, is, is one that had been also rebranded many years back. So so we really wanted to change the ways that we were operating that so we had developed a entrepreneurial program, which we call again, connect, who was called books fair connect still is, which is a free system for entrepreneurs, businesses to go through any stage of their life cycle to again, get connected with all the different partners that would help a business grow and succeed in NEPA. So literally, we just put all the partners in one place, a business could come in, and it flowed through there. So Kinect was really the launch of how we started really redoing our foundational side. So we started doing a lot of work on we have a really cool incubator that’s in the basement of the building I’m in now, which again, is for entrepreneurs, startups and gets them into our community and out into our business community. And we started developing programs underneath that. But then also, you know what it allows us to do do is essentially every year have what we call the chamber foundation pledge, which is a great campaign that is really aimed at fundraising, to be able to allow us to do the work that we’re doing. So when we talk about, you know, the pilots programs that we’re doing, including our workforce, or one that we’re now doing with 11th, and 12th, graders in schools, it’s really going to focus a lot on that foundational work we’re doing. So it’s allowed us to, essentially, you know, contribute, obviously, to the organization, financially, which is, which is a big piece, but it also allows us to give back. So through that foundation, you know, we’re able to give out grants, sometimes for small businesses to start operating, you know, we’re able to do a lot of great work, we’re allowed to apply for obviously, different grants and initiatives that the C three will allow us to that are very much focused on what our mission is. So the foundation was there, we’re definitely utilizing it in a different way now, which is great, because I think it has to be a big piece of how, if you’re, if an organization is able to how you’re able to continue growing? You know, I know, as things get challenging, but I think that a lot of our work now, you know, while I do think that, you know, we’re starting, we’re seeing, you know, growth and stabilization and membership and events. So obviously, as we’re coming out of the pandemic, you know, when you’re looking at how can we truly grow and continue to do you know, more work in the community. And what we want to do this, the C three in the foundational side is what’s really allowing me to continue growing my team and doing a lot of things that align with those missions.

Brandon Burton 31:31
I appreciate the testimony on foundations, I feel like every chamber needs to have one. And if you don’t have one, you know, start the conversation, see what you need to do to get started. But Lindsey, as we start to wrap up here, I wanted to ask you earlier, you had mentioned that your your goal, the slogans chambers to elevate the valley, I want to challenge you to help elevate the chamber of champions that are listening, for those that are listening that want to take their chamber up to the next level, elevate them What tip or action item might you have to help them accomplish that?

Lindsay Griffin-Boylan 32:05
I would say, you know, I and I definitely feel this because I know we all have felt it. It’s been a challenging for a few years. You know, I think that really it shook a lot up. I know that we were working all throughout the entire pandemic, I mean, harder, right, it was it was more difficult, we sometimes have less resources. But I would say that what what my my view on it has been in what my you know, I’ve definitely tried to instill in my team is that it’s also an incredible time to reinvent ourselves. And I think we’ve had a lot of energy and momentum around that. And I think we’ve kept that with us that we have now this opportunity to really be the ones that you know, I think they they always mentioned, you know, on a lot of the chamber, national efforts, and a lot of the things we talked about this chamber boom, I think people looked at us all during the pandemic and said, I don’t know where to go, there’s a ton of information. I’m getting a million emails, it’s, it’s confusing, you know, where should I turn, and a lot of them turn to us. And I think taking advantage of that right now and saying, you know, we are having this amazing opportunity of being in this position in our communities? And how do we really take advantage of that to make sure that that continues, and that we remain that leader that people continue to look to. And I think that’s something that while it was challenging, we looked at it as an incredible opportunity, and one that we were happy to take on and take that position in our area. And one that you know, I always say we feel very humbled and honored always have that people find that, you know, we’re a resource to come to, and you know, that they’re looking to us for that. So I think just remaining up to that challenge. And looking at it as a cool time to reinvent is is one of the tips that I would get, because I think right now, in all of our communities, which are all going to be different yet sort of the same. You know, all these different aspects of what we’re looking to do every day, I would say are ones that, again, I think we can be the conveners of I think we can show our strength, I think that we can show different ways that we can continue to grow and evolve as chambers. And just like, again, taking advantage of, you know, the community, really wanting to embrace us right now and how the best way to do that and embracing the community. Being inclusive, being open, inviting new people to your table, I think is one of the key things that we’ve really, that’s what we’ve really focused on.

Brandon Burton 34:20
I love how you stay on brand to with reinventing I mean, that’s just the theme through this whole episode. So the next question I like asking everyone I have on the podcast, and he may have already touched on the answer with that last reply. But as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Lindsay Griffin-Boylan 34:40
I think chambers will, as I kind of touched on a little bit, but I think chambers will continue to be that you know if they if they pivot and adapt to really what’s happening and really look at their communities and decide what gaps they’re going to fill. I think chambers will continue to make really great partnerships with their area that might be with others. chambers that might be with other organizations that are similar in their, in their scope, I think that the industry is going to have to continue to evolve. Like I said, I think this next generation coming up just doesn’t participate in the same way that paths have. So I think you’re going to have to find new ways to engage them, I always say I get very excited about this next generation, because they will be the most socially minded and entrepreneurial will have ever seen. So I’d say that you have to embrace that next generation coming in, and make sure that they are invited to sit at your table. If they are not, they will leave your area and go sit in a community, where are they are, because that’s the truth, they want to be involved with their area, they want to make change. And that’s, that’s a big fact of them. And it’s exciting to me, because we need a generation like that, that is going to really be the ones that that helped to make some positive change and be engaged. So I think that our industry is going to continue to make sure that diversity, equity and inclusion is a part of what how we’re operating now, I think we should all be looking at our boards or committees, our membership, making sure we’re representative, and we’re embracing the community we have and that we have resources for for everyone that, you know, are accessible. And I think that again, you’re gonna see a lot of chambers get into really cool, different stuff. I mean, I’m already seeing it with housing and transportation. And, you know, obviously, I know a lot of us are focused on workforce. But I think you’re going to see a lot of people come up with creative, you know, partnerships to be able to solve those issues and in turn stabilize their organizations, because I think it’s going to be a key for all of us to look at how do we stay in our communities? How do we stay relevant? How do we stay growing, and bring people on to do I know the massive amount of work all of us have, but you know, the work we’re excited to do and happy to do? So I think it’s going to be continuing to kind of adapt to those things, looking at your community and saying, Where are the gaps, what’s not being filled? Where we need it? And you know, how can we really fulfill that and get the right people on board with us, there’s never really a grab that you know, or program that we you’re going to see us do that as solo, I mean, we’re either working with a local economic health organization and other chamber, a different partner that may be involved. I think that that connectivity is also a huge piece that people need to embrace. No longer should we be in silos we should be working together, there’s too many problems to solve. Doing it together, I think is much more impactful. So I’d also say doing it as collaboration is something that I’m really hoping that that everyone else is also embracing.

Brandon Burton 37:33
I love that response. I especially like the the idea of looking to the future of this generation coming up being socially minded and entrepreneurial, and making sure that we invite them to have a seat at the table. And I think that plays well into the connectivity because these young professionals that are coming up. They may be working from home on a laptop individually in their own silo. But usually when we think of silos, we think, you know, different industries maybe or different areas of work. But I think those silos will look different as we go into the future and being able to help break those down and solve some of these bigger problems together. So thank you for that. I wanted to give you an opportunity Lindsey to share any contact information for listeners who’d like to reach out and connect with you and learn how you guys are doing things there at the Greater Wyoming Valley Chamber, what would be the best way for them to reach out and connect with you?

Lindsay Griffin-Boylan 38:25
Sure, thank you. So I can certainly be reached i Welcome to Talk to Anyone from the industry, I think it’s always one of the best things ever is to connect within our industry because I’ve learned so much every time and it’s just great to have others that are you know, kind of doing similar missions and getting new ideas. So I can be reached at my email, which is lindsay@wyomingvalleychamber.org. And that’s also can be found right on our website. I’m all of my team is accessible on there as well. So on our WyomingValleyChamber.org website, you’ll see my incredible team, what they focus in, you know, what their initiatives all are. So anything I talked to, I didn’t get to talk too much in detail today. But who manages you know, our di Council, our membership, all of our different networks, young professionals, all those types of things. The team is all on there and always happy to connect with anyone within the chamber world and ideas share.

Brandon Burton 39:19
That is perfect. I will get that in our show notes. And I appreciate the generosity and being able to connect with others and share ideas and help solve these problems together. I appreciate that Lindsey and thank you for spending time with us today here on chamber chat podcast. I feel like you’ve provided a lot of value for those listening for those who may be considering a rebrand of themselves or just that continual evolution and reinventing of the their chamber themselves. So thank you so much for that.

Lindsay Griffin-Boylan 39:46
Thank you so much.

Brandon Burton 31:03
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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to the Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your host, Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

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Kris Johnson 0:41
Well, Doug and Bill at the Holman Brothers have been a key ally in growth for my professional career working at three different chambers, a local chamber, a regional chamber, now a statewide chamber. And they’ve been the ideal solution, whether it’s a comprehensive training program, whether it’s working on individual sales growth, quarterly check-ins with the team, the ability to grow members has meaning more assets for the organization, more assets means we can do more things to serve our members. They’ve really been the perfect solution for us, a trusted resource partner and a growth partner for us all along the way. So hats off to Doug and Bill for their great success. They’ll be a great partner for you as they are for us.

Brandon Burton 1:23
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Our guest for this episode is Ronnie Russell. Ronnie is an active duty retired infantry men from the United States Army with 22 years of service. He’s been deployed to Iraq twice and Bosnia once and has been awarded the Bronze Star, the Meritorious Service Medal Joint Service Achievement Medal and numerous Army Commendation Medals. He’s also a former infantry drill sergeant at Fort Benning, Georgia, where he has dedicated countless hours to training American sons. In 2010. Ronnie was nominated for the NAACP Service Award, and was the 32nd, recipient of the blacks and government Award. He is also co founder of the Texas Black Pages, a black business directory that represents 254 counties. He currently serves as the president of the Innovation Black Chamber of Commerce in Greater Fort Hood, Texas area.

Ronnie, I’m excited to have you with us today on Chamber Chat Podcast, I’d love for you to take a moment to say hello to all the chamber champions and share something interesting about yourself so you can get to know you a little bit better.

Ronnie Russell 2:37
So, again, thank you. And I appreciate the platform itself and for everybody to know and understand Cambridge business, dedicated business. So for some time ago, I was trying to figure out, like the why, because the area where we are at the Greater Fort Hood area where we’re dead center between Waco and Austin. But there was no economic representation in the Killeen Fort Hood area. So of course, I’m going out, I’m going to other chambers asking them like, can you bring a satellite chamber in our city? And I did that for a while, but then I was like, like, why am I gonna ask someone to do something that I have the ability to do myself. So I say that to say, programs that your city don’t have created, resources that your city might not have, go out and find it, and bring it into the city. So just keep looking, keep striving keep adjusting, then everything is gonna work out.

Brandon Burton 3:44
And I love that you just took control. And did it reminds me of that quote from Gandhi, you know, to be the change that you want to see in the world. So nobody else is doing it, then, you know, take it on and be the change yourself. So tell us a little bit about the innovation Black Chamber just to give us an idea of, you know, scope of work, the size, the number of members budget, that sort of thing, just to kind of give us an idea and perspective where you’re coming from before we get into our discussion today.

Ronnie Russell 4:15
All right, so the innovation Black Chamber of Commerce was launched in 2019. February 16. Two weeks later, COVID hit so we’re locked in the storm. But we weathered the storm. And that was the great thing about it because at the time, you know, a lot of organ bladder, other organizations, especially the more senior Chamber organizations, they were in in person meetings and meet and greets and whatever it is, but it took time for those to transition into the digital aspect. And we started digital. So because we started digital, we started creating workshops. We started developing new systems from the digital aspect. So we were, like the formalities of how and who we are. As a people, we’ve always gone to in person. But the hybrid is something new. So because we started digital, and now we’re at with the in person, hybrid is a development of pulling people in that haven’t seen faces in a long time, and allowing those who are not comfortable with getting in front of physical, a physical audience to keep them safe. So we develop through that time. We’ve been averaging at least 86 members a year just just growing and expanding and developing. Um, the reason why we’re called the innovation Black Chamber of Commerce, because we didn’t want to get fixed into the constitution and bylaws in restricting us by staying in the city of Killeen, because it allows us to move as fast or as slow and develop and grow into other outlying areas that do not have a demographic representation of a Black Chamber of Commerce. So we have members in Killeen, of course, Fort Hood, Parker, hi, Temple, Belton. We’re out Copperas Cove huddle, Round Rock, Georgetown, because those cities that are major within population, and rich within resources don’t have didn’t have and still don’t have a Black Chamber representation. So it allows us to maneuver in that space. So we’re as fluid as possible without the restrictions of, of the city, or county line. But we’ve grown considerably, I think the first year our budget was only like, honestly, like 25 27,000, because we were we were digital. So it wasn’t that

Brandon Burton 7:03
we didn’t have the rent and everything and all that.

Ronnie Russell 7:07
Correct. So then the budget second year, changed to maybe about 5055. Because now we were buying more things and developing more assets and digital assets as well. I do a lot of stuff. I’m a creative, I built the website, I do all the graphics, I do all of the marketing, I create everything that is needed. Like even the NFT that we develop, I did all the r&d and in bringing that to fruition. So I’m just blessed to have the ability to create where a lot of other chambers who don’t have that, that marketing in house, they have to pay that. And now it’s an expense. I don’t have those expenses of marketing, because I do it myself because I’m social media certified, as well as meta certified as well. My next certification I want Google, but a lot of that stays in house, but we were blessed. And in in the transition into our third year. Now we we I think we, the 990 has data like 108 108,000 hours, okay, and it’s just, it’s just the beginning for me. And knowing what we have. Now we have 251 members, we just we have we got a bank that we just been developing with. And last year, they put in like $2.5 million into our membership with over 750,000 in deposits and transfers into the bank, they just been doing a phenomenal job with helping us out. We’re kind of a hybrid. And I say that to say we have a lot of community engagement, as well as a lot of business development. At the same time, because we have to speak the language of the community by also understanding that we have to advocate for the business community and bring in and pull in those resources at the same time because in our area, we don’t have a CDFI at all. The closest CDFI of people fund and lift fund and Texas mezzanine as well as what’s the other one? I forgot the other one but those CDFIs we don’t have. So I have to go out like now I’m in Austin right now after go out of our way to find the non traditional funding resources and bring them back in into the city so it’s I’m not gonna call it hard work. It’s it’s a worthwhile journey. Yeah, that that I don’t believe how As a final destination, but we will always be reshaping reforming. And we’re going into changing out membership now because, you know, we hit our third year. So we’re bringing in new board members, the the, the original board members, some of them are transitioning up through the advisory board why we bring in new blood membership is changing. Seats, the our EDC is changing seat. So we’re just just growing and developing and reshaping our corps.

Brandon Burton 10:38
That’s awesome. It’s great to have that perspective. Congratulations on year over year doubling your budget. Yeah, hopefully they have clips going in the foreseeable future. So as we have Rodney on the podcast today, we’re going to be focusing our conversation around the utility that chambers can find within NF T’s Ronnie had mentioned to kind of drop that in there as he was talking about it about the chamber that we will dive deeper into that discussion as soon as we get back from this quick break.

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All right, Ronnie, we’re back. So I know I mentioned this to you before we hit record but for everybody listening, the way this kind of developed is I’m part of a small mastermind group of you know, a couple other people that service the chamber industry. And as we were meeting one evening, I was kind of sharing my vision with them of how I see chambers embracing, you know, chambers, the future embracing NFT technology for whether it be for membership or ticket sales or access essentially, a lot of times people think of NF T’s as being you know, eight images and stuff on these blockchain networks. And I think there’s so much more utility to NF T’s that chambers of Congress can really get behind and whenever you look at a an NFT project, they always talk about building a community around that project. And like you know, bingo, you know, lights went off for me and then chambers are all about building communities. So how do we integrate these two chambers of commerce in fts. And while we’re in this mastermind meeting, one of the members of our group did a little Google search for chambers and NFT. And, and Ronnie pops up that the innovation Black Chamber they have incorporated and NFT for ticket sales. So Ronnie, tell us about how that came to be, and how you went about the development of the NF T and maybe a little bit of background. So for those listening who may not be familiar with what an NF t is just to kind of bring them up to speed real quick before you dive in.

Ronnie Russell 15:37
Right? So for me, again, I wanted to be innovative in an in our approach. But in being innovative in the approach, you have to create something new and you have to create something different. So let me read to you what the NFT is, it’s first of all, just to make sure that everybody knows because a lot of times we see it as we’re more afraid of the early adoption of it. And because we’re afraid of the early adoption, then we don’t feel like it’s something that it’s something that that like we can be a part of. So NFT is a non fungible token, which means that it is unique and can’t be replaced. It is the physical is a contrast physical money and cryptocurrency. So the cryptocurrency space is, is volatile. I mean it goes up, it goes down, it goes up, it goes down. But the one thing that makes that make your NFT different is it will always have value. So what we did with ours, which we actually launched it last year, because we have a we have Texas Black Business Week, which is every second year I mean every second week of February, every year like we’ve been doing it because originally Texas Black Business Week was Texas black pages. And when when I when I launched the chamber I yielded over two IVCC because I didn’t want to compete with my own in my own city with my own events why yielded over so what we did with it when we created the NF t. So I found someone because being with Texas blank page, we have over 17,000 businesses listed within a directory. So I found a SaaS company that also build in our T. So I reached out and told him what I wanted and wanted to create a ticket item. So what happens with your ticketed item, you have to have several other platforms with metamath as well as open seat. So meta mask is where you’re going to have your cryptocurrency storage and you have to have a digital wallet. So that’s your grinder wallet. Right? Correct. Correct. And then you’re going to have to go to open sea and create that account for your crypto wallet to send the money to as well as when people buy it. So what happens is, let’s say you and your organization create the cryptocurrency non fungible token the NFT he created early adoption. So when our our opening ceremony for the Business Week, we gave away 10 fungible tokens. Well, once they give away, we have complimentary, complimentary 10 fungible token. So now that creates the early adoption, because a lot of people want to receive something that they didn’t have to pay for. So the early adopters really begin at that time. So then we did the early adopters, because we created 100 of them. So through the early adoption, we got people to want to go and find out and do research, what NFT was, and how is it beneficial for them. So the NFT that they’ve gotten at no cost to them, already had $100 value on it. So now, that $100 value for them, they got it at no cost. So then what happens is they want to go and buy more. So you as your organization, and when people purchase those NFPs they’re getting money. I mean, you’re receiving income from it. But now it holds value on there, and it’s kind of like buying stocks and bonds, but then when you buy it and then however the market fluctuates, then the value increase, but your cryptocurrency holds a much more stronger baseline with the value of it. So it just helps you out a whole lot more. Now we haven’t transitioned into the website of having a crypto platform where you can get your MBA estimate of your membership by purchasing your your membership through cryptocurrency. But we wanted to do it with events just to test the market. So if you’re thinking about going into the NFP perspective, figure out how are you going to do the early adoption? Because the early adoption is going to get people interested in learning more about what cryptocurrency is, and then you as an organization, you begin to figure out how is it going to benefit you in the organization as well, because because you’re a 501, C three, and they’re right there, they’re purchasing these products. Now they want to write it off, but the value still stays. They can write it off, but it’s still worth 100 hours. So they didn’t lose anything. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 20:40
no, that’s a that’s a neat perspective. And I love how you guys really focused on a trial with a specific event to see, you know, to build out the technology, see how it works. Go about educating your members about it. That’s uh, one of the hurdles that I see is with chambers adopting NFT technology is educating their membership base. So did you take any special steps to educate with this event? Did you just do NFT tickets? Or did you have traditional ticket sales two, sorry, two questions. And one, they’re

Ronnie Russell 21:18
both, we actually did both. So what we did is, of course, here we have the tangible ticket, and the non tangible tickets, of course, which is the NFL, the NFL, the non fungible token. So we tokenized our tickets. I’m gonna say that, again, you tokenize our tickets through the NRP, which is the non fungible token. And what we did was, we had the company that created the NFP itself, actually have them host, a Digital Workshop on Zoom, to get people to be much more educated on what the NFC was. So then the individual that won those non fungible tokens, then we had an additional workshop because they had to show them how they bow to receive it. Because once you receive once you want the NFT, you have to now be able to receive it. So I had to go in, get the go into open See, get the alphanumeric code, and then take that code and then send it to your account. So one, because you want that doesn’t necessarily mean that the work is over with no, you still have to download metamath, you still have to download and create an open sea account in order for me to thin your new cryptocurrency or your new NFT to you in order for it to digitally show up in their in their open sea.

Brandon Burton 22:57
So for those listening, so meta mask is going to be your crypto wallet that you use to receive these the NFT. In exchange crypto, it’s your storage, your wallet, that’s where you host these digital assets. Open see is more of that marketplace, right? Where you can post the NF T’s for sale. And there’s also an aftermarket right for NF Ts. So with this specific NFT that you guys created, is it good for the one event? Is it good for future events to how does it retain its value after the one after the event that you sold them for?

Ronnie Russell 23:37
Again, as cryptocurrencies so the value stays. So we can either repurpose it, or we can keep it as is because right now when you go to Open see you type in innovation, Black Chamber of Commerce, you’re going to see the hologram ticket that was created. So say this year, we’ll say this year during Black Business Week at the launch, we say now we’re going to offer a minted non fungible token from last year. So now the value is going to increase because last year’s price is not today’s price when you when you look at it, so you can just repurpose it and do the same thing. Or instead of doing a complimentary because the education has already been there. So now you can say today’s value, even do a silent auction silent auction with the NFT. So and then again, it’s going to gain more money from the donations of it. So now the winner again, they get the same thing as everybody else who did it with a complimentary service, because they’ve seen it before they understand it now. Well they have a knowledge base about it. So then if another way to do it because even to what you’re selling oxygen because it’s an NF t you take it in Put it on a big screen TV. And it you know in a rotates and everybody see you get the oohs and ahhs and stuff like that. So now through the silent auction of NF T’s, you’re going to make money. And again, in the person that purchased that NF T, they’re going to then take that whole purchase that purchase order that they’ve gotten from the NFT. And they’re gonna write that off. So you’re gonna get money from the silent auction, and they’re going to have a NFT, that they’re going to have value. So now another thing that I want you to know, when they purchased that NFT, and it’s being bought, the value of the NFT, that you have less, I mean, you have left now and goes up, because it’s purchased. Another thing that people can do what your NF t is, because it’s on a marketplace, people can go to like, now we’ve had a couple of hits, because again, open sea is an open market, we had a couple of hits, and people coming in and looking to buy our NF tees and and go through a whole auction process to where they said, Okay, I purchased it for $5 Somebody come out and see it, like no app purchased it for 10. So it just creates an ongoing marketplace by just doing one thing, by allowing yourself to be an early adopter, in creating something that, that that has a lifespan as long as it still exists in the market. Yeah.

Brandon Burton 26:28
So about two years ago, that’s when I was first getting introduced to NF Ts and and I you know, purchase Bitcoin and stuff. But prior to that, but the NF T’s were really starting to come on the scene. And at the same time I was in the process of creating a podcasting course to teach chambers had a podcast, we had a podcast. And the idea hit me, you know, if I created a limited amount, say, you know, 10, or 20 of the podcast courses, but tokenize it as an NFT. And then sell it. So once the chamber knows how to podcast, they don’t need the course anymore, they can resell that and in essence, be marketing to continue to market that course to other chambers. And you could build in a royalty with it to to where maybe you get 10% back on each resale. So it continues to be sold and promoted and produced and pushed out there. I didn’t go that course just because I didn’t have the technical know how to pull it all together. But in concept at that that could be a great utility, whether it’s a chamber or anybody else with courses in the future. But what are some other utilities that you see on the horizon for chambers to utilize and FTS and cryptocurrency?

Ronnie Russell 27:46
I mean, membership, but that’s really if you’re, if the community that you’re in, is really strong as a real good knowledge base, what NF T’s and crypto is and even offering NFT workshops for your members. I mean, even if you excuse me, even if you don’t use it to tokenize some of the things that you do, but you can still offer it as a workshop for your members as well as a workshop for the community. open sea has a grant that they do in order for awhile to assist you with teaching about the NFT process. So there’s grant money that’s out there for innovation. And that’s something that you can use to add into the scope of work with with your workshops, because it’s still early adoption, it’s still early, you know, even though it’s been out for maybe two years going on three years, it’s still early adoption is less than five years. So it’s still early Within those stages, though, I will say just take a look at it and see if it’s beneficial for you for one. And then from those benefits. Now you can add it as a benefit for your corporate sponsor. So they come in, they pay 5000 10,000 15,000 3000, whatever it is, and now that comes with the NFT. So now that corporation or that sponsor that you used to come in at a certain level, like say for your chamber banquets, or your community engagement events, so now you can tokenize their sponsorship by creating they’re taking their logo, of course getting permission, taking their logo and tokenizing their logo to say that this is the 2023 sponsor for whatever. So now you tokenize it so now you’re creating value even after the event is over. So now the event forever lives on because you have tokenized their support

Brandon Burton 30:00
That’s awesome. Yeah, I would follow a similar model, I think that you guys did as you look at memberships. So maybe you don’t do it for your entire membership and maybe a segment, right? Maybe you look at your young entrepreneurs, and you can have, they tend to be some of those early adopters. And if you can explain that, you know, membership for young entrepreneurs is done through an NF T. And that’s gonna get you access to online trainings, and all these different things that are focused for the young entrepreneurs. And then as they grow up, you know, through, you know, their business life through their, their professional career, you slowly start to integrate that throughout the rest of the chamber memberships. And, you know, if that young entrepreneur were to get a different job, or to, you know, heaven forbid, you know, move out of the community, they can either hang on to that as a valuable non fungible token, or they could go to somewhere like open sea and resell it, and be an advocate for your chamber and continuing to sell memberships. I think there’s a lot of utility there. Right? So going back to the ticketing, so you tokenize a ticket as as people showed up to the event, how do you go about you know, accepting the tickets as it you know, a paper traditional paper ticket versus ticketing on an NFT that they pull up on their phone?

Ronnie Russell 31:22
Well, on your back office, open, see, it actually, lets you know who actually purchased it. So they just create your your normal atom analog list of what you who purchased it, and then they come, then they can either they can show it, and then they can then you as organizations still line that particular NFT, owner and ticket purchaser off on your list. So it’s not something out maybe in the in the foreseeable future, which I do know there is a platform that that does do tokenized ticketing, so they can create that tokenized ticketing. And then I believe they do have a QR code, so they can check you in kind of like you do with Eventbrite and other platforms. So I think there is one that’s out there, I did find one, but I went, I wanted to go more. So more so with a open sea account, as opposed to just that one ticket item on that platform. Because once it’s over, it’s over, open feed, keep it a lot longer. So that that’s what we did. And that’s why I made that decision on not just using it as a ticketed items, but use it as a item for ticketing, which extends the life of the event.

Brandon Burton 32:41
Yeah. So I know there’s been a lot of examples out there of entrepreneurs that have launched NFT projects and communities around it. The one that comes to mind is Gary Vaynerchuk, right with his V friends. So maybe rather than going into the whole story of Gary Vaynerchuk, and V friends, people can Google that and get, you know, the background on what that was, but maybe just in a nutshell, he created these little animated characters. And anybody that bought these NF T’s, there’s like 10,000 of them, they would get access to his annual conference that he does for his fans for the next three years. So that one NFT purchase retains its value, you have an image that’s tradable, it’s non fungible, it’s your own, you know, your own property that you purchase, then there’s a lot of after sale market on that, but it retains the value for the next three years, especially with access to his conference. And then he does these airdrops and you know, other, you know, giveaways to those holders of his NFT. So, it incentivizes people to hang on to it and continues to build value on that. So, I just mentioned that put it out there. So chambers can think of other ways to maybe build on the technology and see the offerings that their chamber has to offer and, and see where some things might like that. But Ronny is, as you’ve gone through this experiment, was it worthwhile, would you do it again?

Ronnie Russell 34:16
Um, would I do it again? I will, I will approach it differently. Okay. What lessons did you learn do it again? Yeah. early adoption is is is hard with different age groups. My city the city of Killeen is a young city. But when it comes to Chamber members, a lot of them are older. So the early adoption with the older Chamber members in them is the devil like, I already don’t like to get online with you trying to shove this down my throat. Like I don’t have a habit pay for it. So I, I would do it differently. Like I would pose several NFT workshop, and just invite not just your members, but invite the community to come and be a part of it. Because now when they see your your chamber, actually doing something with NF T’s, then it allows them to feel like, okay, that’s a place that I can go to, they won’t make them feel like the chamber is a nursing home with a bunch of old people in it, right? But it allowed them to say, okay, they talk in my language. And let me go in here and see how I can be an asset. Like maybe you can begin to develop a digital committee and everything in a digital committee is totally different than just marketing is actually digitizing the process, assisting members with digitizing their paperwork, and it just totally changes the game when you’re speaking the language of the youth. So now they want to be a part of what you’re doing, instead of just being what their thing is. That’s what old people. So I will use that the early adoption workshop prior to launching in a ticketed item NF T with people who are already afraid of going online.

Brandon Burton 36:23
And that’s so important for just staying relevant as a chamber going forward. You don’t want to push your your longtime lifetime members do something new, that’s going to push them away. But for those early adopters, and to be able to continue to stay relevant, maybe do it for a segment of your of your membership population and just slowly integrate it. Was there a cost involved with creating the NFT? What does that look like you You said he had worked with the SAS company?

Ronnie Russell 36:52
There there. I think we were there. Maybe third client, okay. It wasn’t expensive. But even after we came, we had two members that we sent to them. So we got kind of, you know, some some money on the back end. That wasn’t how it started. It was like, you know, what you brought us to clients. So this is what we’re going to do for you. So it was kind of a good give and take, when it comes to I think we only pay maybe 450. Okay, for it. So again, it wasn’t expensive. But their work was good. But I will say if you’re thinking about going into the NFP look at their work, go to their open see account, and ensure that you’re getting something that was that is tailored to you and your organization. The one thing that I would do different from a design perspective, is to ensure that the design that they’re doing for you doesn’t look like somebody else’s design that they did. Because they they did a blockchain, you’re like, Oh man, that’s nice. But then you go to the, to their open sea account like, man, one thing you did to take my take their logo out, put my logo in, and then you change their color. But my color. Yeah. So make sure that you create something that is tailored and designed for you. And not a you universal and then like everybody else that they’ve done.

Brandon Burton 38:24
That’s good insight. As far as pricing the NFT. Did you price it in dollars or Aetherium or Solana or what did you price it in?

Ronnie Russell 38:34
It wasn’t Aetherium they use the theory. Okay? Because they had also look at, like, what’s the cost of the of the week that we had to deal with? So it won’t be I’m charging you this month, I mean this much. But then you got this much and gas fee. So you’re like, Man, the value ain’t the same or more because you got hit with so much. So many feeds with just purchasing it. So again, the company that went through using Ethereum, so it would depend on like, even when you’re doing it, make sure they’re there, they’re open enough to educate you about it and educates you through the entire process. Like it’s kind of like the customer journey. So have them walk you through the entire journey like like, I am the person that is purchasing the NFT now walk me through it, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Right. Now, I’m

Brandon Burton 39:31
just curious from a back end side of it, do you do you keep those sales in Aetherium? Did you convert it back to dollars as you put it into Bitcoin or how did that look after the sale?

Ronnie Russell 39:43
Of course the market fluctuates, but keeping it in, in the in the crypto space, it allows that to be a market that your marketplace so then when you do want to convert it and push it through your metamath gives me send it from Coinbase to traditional bank. I wanted to keep it any theory and because at the time the market was fluctuating as far as the cryptocurrency was was going, so I kept it in there. It’s kind of like, if you take it out too early, now you lost all this value because it unhit again. So I kept it in there.

Brandon Burton 40:22
Okay, good deal. So as we start wrapping up, I wanted to ask you for any chambers that are out there listening that are looking to take their chamber up to the next level, what tip or action item, might you suggest whether it’s related to the NFT space or anything else? What What would you have to offer?

Ronnie Russell 40:42
This, don’t be afraid of technology. Like our three buckets in the chamber itself is Business Technology, and veteran. And I want it to ensure that there was a technology agenda. Because a lot of people are afraid when they hear the word technology because there is a there are developed fears. When it comes to technology. Just because you don’t know doesn’t mean that you can’t find out. And when you begin to find out, that’s when you become an asset to be valuable to those who need the information that you just obtain. So don’t be afraid of technology, learn the technology, understand the technology, repurpose the information that you that you just found.

Brandon Burton 41:32
That is a that’s a great tip there especially like repurposing that information that you find. As we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Ronnie Russell 41:48
I think chambers need to be more of a conduit when it comes to crowdfunding. Because for us we do a lot of giving. And because we do a lot of giving we we we have a lot that we receive, like for our Juneteenth festival is actually crowdfunding. Okay, it looks like a festival to the eye. But on a back end. It’s it’s a program. It’s an economic program. We give away 10,000 hours a year, during our Juneteenth festival, first prize, get five second, get three. And third, get to. So as the sponsors pay into your program, repurpose the sponsorship and pour that back out into the community. Because the community is where the members lead. And the community is where who go and support the business that are not your member. So those members that are not your members seeing what you do, because for our Juneteenth festival with the June team, grant, it can be a member or not, that come and be a part of it. But when you’re an asset from a economic perspective, so then it becomes a resource and a value to the community because you have value and you have valuable value is something that is presented valuable is a resource, it is a resource that then becomes duplicated, because it is always going to be needed, because it was always going to meet a need. Because problems is just a need that meet a need that that that needs to be met. So look at what needs need to be met, and then create a program that meets the needs of the issue.

Brandon Burton 43:50
I love it very well said. So, Ronnie, I wanted to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for listeners that like to reach out and connect and learn more maybe about building an NFT or looking for a referral to the SAS company that did this for you what, what would be the best way for them to reach out and connect and learn more?

Ronnie Russell 44:11
Yeah, so you can find and follow the Innovation Black Chamber of Commerce on Facebook, Instagram. Going to website innovationbcc.org. There’s lots of social proof that’s out there. So if you want to send an email, you can send an email to info@Innovationbcc.org or you can give us a call at 254-415-9951 and I’m in the heart of Texas, Central Texas. So I have no issue with with coming and speaking whatever it is, is at no cost to you. I will pull up and show up longer it means that I’ll pull up as though

Brandon Burton 44:58
that is a great offer right there because Ronnie covered a lot of valuable information with us today. I hope everybody was taking notes, maybe re listen to this one again, dive in a little bit deeper and learn more about NFT technology and see where those overlaps are for your chamber for your community, how you can apply this sustain relevant going forward into the future. But Ronnie, thank you so much for joining us today for sharing your experience and how you guys have gone through this and, and really just painting a picture of how NF Ts can really meet a need for Chambers of Commerce. I really appreciate that.

Ronnie Russell 45:36
So thank you for that.

Brandon Burton 38:24
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