Below is an auto-generated transcription of my conversation with Hardy Smith. Because this is auto-generated there are likely some grammatical errors but it is still a useful tool to search text within this podcast episode.
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Introduction
Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.
Voiceover Talent 0:14
Now your host he tries to meditate, meditate daily. He’s my dad, Brandon Burton.
Brandon Burton 0:19
Hello Chamber Champions. You’re joining us on Chamber Chat Podcast where I’m your host, Brandon Burton, and it is my goal to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.
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Tony Felker 0:45
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Brandon Burton 1:07
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Guest Introduction
Our guest for this episode is Hardy Smith. Hardy is a consultant and speaker who works with leaders who want to stop frustration with their volunteer boards. Through board retreats workshops, keynotes, and planning sessions Hardy provides solutions to board engagement challenges. Hardy’s extensive experience with diverse organizations provides the basis for his comprehensive book stop the nonprofit board blame game. His result oriented approach and ability to solve complex problems were developed during his longtime career in the high performance world of NASCAR racing. That experience included strategic planning for some of the country’s largest sports and entertainment facilities and spectator events. Hardy has also had more than a decade of senior leadership experience with local government which further refined his skills in improving organizational performance. Hardy has a wide range of personal and professional involvement with nonprofits, associations, chambers of commerce, and community groups nationwide. He has held numerous local, state and national volunteer leadership positions that have further contributed to his in depth understanding of nonprofit needs. Hart is a member of the National Speakers Association, Association of Fundraising Professionals BoardSource, Florida Society of Association Executives, ASAP and ACC. Hardy is also a faculty member of the US Chamber of Commerce Institute for organization management. Hardy, I feel blessed to have you with me today on Chamber Chat Podcast, I’d love for you to take a moment to say hello to all the Chamber Champions that are listening and share something else interesting about yourself so you can get to know you a little better.
Hardy Smith 2:58
Brandon, thank you so very much for having me on the chamber podcast today. And in the opportunity to visit with your Chamber Champions and really like chamber Tammy, what a label to assign just a tremendous group of people that all all too often are highly stressed, overworked, undervalued, and it kind of a bless their heart kind of a world. And hopefully we’ll have some, some help today to help alleviate some of those challenges.
Brandon Burton 3:37
That’s right. I believe we will, I mean, as I had the opportunity to read through so I’ll introduce may be a little premature, but we’re going to focus our topic today on Hardy’s new book, Stop the Nonprofit Board Blame Game. And I really do think after having the opportunity to read through the book, this is a great resource it’s going to help alleviate some of those sources of frustration. So we’ll get into that in just a minute. But Hardy Why don’t you take a little bit of time to tell us a little bit more about your your efforts especially in working with Chambers as it comes to you know, consulting and board retreats and things like that just so I think everybody in chamber world is familiar with your name at least I mean, they they see on social media, whatnot. But just give us a little snapshot of what you offer for chambers, your consultant work.
About Hardy Smith
Hardy Smith 4:30
Well thank you, Brandon, in in my production and of course, understanding Lear is a longtime personal and professional background and relationships and engagements with chamber groups all across the country. And I really, really appreciate those opportunities. When you know after a while and you know when you’re in this in this working with chambers, again, it’s very evident that the There’s a tremendous challenge their challenge. And it’s it’s the the frustration associated with working with boards who are either not engaged enough or perhaps in too many cases engaged too much, right? Well, my career in NASCAR racing was the head of a problem solver. My task was to identify problems really, before they existed and come up with the solutions to make sure the problems didn’t happen. Or if a problem did happen, make darn well sure I came up with a solution, it was gonna get the fix. So as I work with, with chambers across the country, and seeing the situation with with boards, the disengagement over engagement, seeing the the impact, emotional, physical, mental impact that it’s having on chamber professionals, and also the impact of the lack of productivity of chambers being able to meet the true potential that they have in their given community. And so that’s, for me, that’s a problem that needs a solution. And I see, you know, in the sector, there’s a whole lot of advice. There’s a whole lot of training sessions, and there’s a whole lot of consultants, and there’s a whole lot of speakers, and a whole lot of books and articles and blogs and podcasts that talk about this topic. But what’s happening, the problem still there. So in my kind of NASCAR mentality of, you know, taking the car apart at the end of a race, not by not bolt by bolt, and then putting it all back together again, to try to figure out why in the world did the car do what it did on that particular event? That was that was my mindset, and to look for solution, so to to get solutions that are going to be implementable and workable. Um, what I did differently, to help the sector and our nonprofit, and chamber professionals, Brandon is I reached out to board members. So not from a staff perspective, the book represents the board member perspective of, wow, why don’t you do what you’re supposed to do? And the answers they shared with me are extremely revealing. And those answers and responses lead to solutions that matched up and of course, the how tos for implementing the solutions matched up with these Org members themselves shared with me of why the good members become disengaged, why members don’t do what they’re supposed to do. And also very revealing as far as Wow, chamber professionals, have you considered you might be contributing to the problems that you’re having with board members. Problem contributor. So the book gets into that.
Brandon Burton 8:19
That’s absolutely right. And I look forward to diving a little deeper into your book as soon as we get back from this quick break.
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Topic-Stop the Non-Profit Board Blame Game
All right, Hardy, we’re back. And as you were, you’d mentioned right before our break about how you had reached out to nonprofit board members and got their perspective. And I love that you went out and did that, because it really does. It brings a different perspective to the whole approach. And as I was reading through the book, and preparing for this discussion with you, the thought occurred to me that and I would love to do a poll myself amongst chamber executives, to see how many chamber executives had experience working with the board before they started working the chamber. And if you look at that, and I’m going to guess there’s going to be some that had some experience, maybe they served on a board, you know, with another organization, but as far as being the executive director, and in that role, I think your book, really, it becomes kind of a manual to say, here’s how you manage a board, here’s the things you need to look for. But I like the you you went to these board members with a survey? I’m curious to hear from your perspective, what are some of the more revealing responses that you got as a result of that survey that?
Hardy Smith 11:56
Well, one of the one of the key things and anyone who’s involved in a long time relationship with another individual, it could be personal, like it’d be business understands that the number one key is effective communication. And so underlying, use bold red, and for the word effective. So it’s not just communication. So what the board members in the survey shared with me that communication related issues, poor communication, communication, that’s not timely, in a way that they’re left surprised by a particular issue. In some cases, communication doesn’t happen at all. So a whole lot of issues surrounding communication, is the number one contributor to board disengagement. Or, again, in a way, that’s not appropriate. And to go a little bit deeper there, if you’d like, you know, when does, when does effective communication begin? Well, it begins in the recruitment process. And so why the occasion is being shared with a prospective board member of what the expectations are, and what’s the most impart of effective communication? Is being a good listener? Yeah. So when you’re having the conversation with your board prospects prospect? Are you listening to see if they’re understanding the expectations? And are you listening not for what you want to hear, but for what you need to hear? And that’s their acceptance of fulfilling the expectations at hand. So that’s, that’s one issue. Another issue is simply that, you know, for our Chamber Champions on the podcast today, I just asked you to visualize your boardroom and look at all the faces around the board table. And for every single individual person, you’ve got every single individual represents a different communication style, a different communication preference. Every single individual has a personal preference for how they want to receive information, and also how they digest it or process that so let me explain real quickly. You’re here for the board meetings. I’m i It’s unfortunate that so many board excuse me, chamber execs. I’ve shared with me, Brandon about just oh my gosh, I’ve got a board meeting next week and I’m already in a panic. I’m losing sleep on this like a week ahead. And is it they’re the same, they’re just in a hot mess a week after. So it’s like two weeks a time, they will last out of a four week month. They’re just mentally and emotionally destroyed because of preparing for the board meetings. So not a great room, get the chambers and they’re not going to be read, but they still have to, they feel obligated to prepare the reports. So instead of going through this upside down exercise of preparing information that no one is going to pay attention to, how about maybe asking your individual board members how they prefer to receive the information. And they have multiple communication platforms, some may want a full on written report with all kinds of data and pictures and charts. And okay, some may want an executive summary, some may just want a tweet, you know, is an exaggeration, but you’ve got to understand the individual communication preferences, timing, you know, if you want someone to really read your your reports, you know, having it at the board seat for the board meeting, not in advance, so a busy board member has a chance to actually review it in advance, you know, you’re just you’re just shooting yourself in the foot. So communication issues are huge, huge. As far as creating dysfunctional relationships,
Brandon Burton 16:32
um, from what I can tell, you know, through the the communication, that the how and when of communication to make it effective, it’s also critical to be able to help set expectations. So when you’re talking about the chamber executive prepares the report, they have an expectation of, I’m preparing this, I would like for my board to read it, or at least look at it and give it to pay some attention. So through the communication is the opportunity to, to put forth some of those expectations as well. But I know the expectations go both ways, right, as we read in the book.
Hardy Smith 17:10
Absolutely. And, and so you, you know, and this is an very important part. You just can’t assume anything. And that’s where I think so many chamber professionals are champions, unfortunately get themselves into trouble. There’s a whole lot of assuming, and so far is as far as expectations go. Okay, well, let’s the chamber is the chamber board, and everyone just knows what’s expected? Well, you know, there’s, there’s your expectations as the chamber executive, and probably about 100% of the time, the individual board members individually and collectively have expectations. So is there any conversation happening at all, about merging the two sets of expectations or three sets? So yours? There’s individually and there’s as collectively? So that’s so critically important? You know, if, if, in again, in a relationship, are you asking, are you telling and I and I, I know from my 48 year marriage with de my wife, Debbie, and that that, you know, there’s a big difference between asking and telling, I’ve learned to finally ask me a while to get it. But I finally learned to ask so. So the point here is, is you can’t walk into a boardroom and say, here’s what I or the chamber needs for you to do. You’ve got to ask, here’s what we would like for you to consider. Are you willing to take on this task? And then even from even from a planning session, you know, you jumping ahead just a little bit, maybe, but in planning sessions, quite often, chambers and for a lot of reasons, decide not to bring in someone, perhaps, like URI is outside facilitators to facilitate a strategic plan. Development. Now, the Chamber executive, you know, gets their their favorite drink of choice, and spends a few hours writing up the plan presents the plan. If the board meeting the board, of course, passes the plan, no discussion, and there you go. And then the board executive is so frustrated, because no action is being taken on the plan. Well, why is that and it gets into expectations, and being having clarity around expectations, and again, the communication aspect. One of my great friends, who who I quoted a couple of times in the book is Dr. Jack Hawkins, who is the Chance to our toy University in Alabama. And he said Hardy, if they help bake the cake, they own the cake. So when you have a strategic planning session, you’ve got an opportunity where the board is actually involved, then they have a chance to evaluate our identify goals, objectives, the How to actions, expectations, their role and the expectations and implementing, you know, the activities at hand, and deciding what they’re going to do and what they’re not going to do. So the board role might be hands on personal engagement. They’re actually involved in implementation, or their role could be supporting the implementation of a strategic plan by staff. But you get clarity. And then so you’ve got a merging of bought and accept a sense of the direction of for expectations. Does that make sense?
Brandon Burton 21:09
It absolutely does, it makes a ton of sense. And as you started touching on the strategic planning and helping these board members to make the cake, as you say, it leads me to one of the other points I wanted to make sure that we could discuss it really stood out to me the chapter about creating a collaborative board. And there was a line specifically that talked about how the Board should be able to take ownership of a specific problem in their, their organization, their community, whatever it may be, and take ownership as they’re the ones who are tasked to solve that problem. You might speak in more to that and creating that collaborative environment.
Hardy Smith 21:51
Well, yes, what the one of the things that I’ve discovered just over time, is, is rather than really talk about strategic, okay, we’re going to have a strategic planning activity, you know, could be a process or couldn’t be an activity, there’s a little bit of a difference there. But I’ve started using the terminology, Brandon critical conversation. So the things that they need to talk about, everyone knows they should be talked about and addressed. And resolved is the important situation, rather than not addressing them at all, to be able to have a critical conversation. I use in the book, a fantastic lesson that I in case study I picked up from the book, creativity, Inc. Now, I know that one of your recent guests on the on the podcast was Pat Patrick. And he talked about how he and my friend Dave Kilby really are great readers and are always just dropping in these books. I’m just wanting to kind of help kind of support that. So creativity, Inc, by Ed Catmull. Now, creativity, Inc, is about the success of Pixar. And Ed Catmull was or still is, the leader of Pixar helped create Pixar. And he’s also now got a lead dual role with Disney Animation. Bottom line here is he says the secret sauce, I used to just think that Pixar was okay, they did Toy Story and a bunch of other cool movies that are that are great to watch and a lot of fun, right? But Pixar animation is way more than just that the the movies are just as kind of a side hustle. But what ad was able to do when he saw such dysfunction, because among the creative, so just substitute the word creatives for board members, his creatives, the producers, the writers, the Imagineers, the graphic artists, the cartoonist, all of those individuals, the technical people, you know, highly protective of turf, didn’t like change, couldn’t get a just couldn’t come together to agree on a price. So as a result, movies were just financial bust because they were spending millions and millions and millions of dollars way over budget taking way too much time to get done. So the fix was to create a collaborative culture. And so that everyone figure it out if they helped each other and solve each other’s problems. They can actually get something done. It’d be much more successful doing that. Now, what are some of the secret nuggets that that creativity by Ed Catmull shared? He said the secret to all that You have to have a safe place. So picture your board boardroom. Is your board room a safe place? Do new board members feel like? It’s okay to ask a question. Is it okay to challenge it? Do all board members feel safe and comfortable in challenging a concept? Maybe there’s a new program you want to offer? Maybe there’s a new expense to be considered. Maybe there’s a staff change? You know, whatever it is, do your board members feel comfortable in participating and actively and openly engaged meeting? Do your board meetings matter? And just let that sink in? Do your board meetings? Are they do they start at a time certain and ended a time certain? And to hack with any kind of robust conversation or engagement? Nope, it’s item 1-234-567-8910. And we’re done. See you next time. Are your board meetings, think about your who you own your board, typically, the most active and most engaged and most influential leaders in a community? Right? I mean, that’s kind of the the blueprint that I see that every single chamber wants?
Well, probably every single one of your board members has how many other activities they could have on their calendar, at the same time of your regular board meeting many probably blocks, right? Well, they’re making a choice, they’re making a choice? are they choosing to come prepared to your board meeting? Or are they looking forward to coming to your board meeting, because they know the board meeting itself is going to be stimulating the Listen, this is so critical. Chamber Champions, just just pay attention right now, go old school, get a pen and write this down on a piece of paper for having, say, chamber board members or volunteers, you’ve got to understand that volunteers get involved. Because they want to have an impact. They want to make a difference, it doesn’t matter if it’s a chamber board. Or if it’s a local nonprofit, dealing with a cause it’s special to them. Let me repeat that board members sign up, say yes to being recruited to serve on your board, because they feel like they’re gonna have a chance to make a difference and have an impact underscored that again. So if they’re coming to meetings, and they don’t think that’s gonna happen, you know, they have zero expectation for their fact is coming in, they’re wasting their time, and you want to get a disengaged board member, just show them that their time at a board meeting is wasted. That’s that I mean, that’s just like a circle with a big X right through the middle of it. You know, don’t waste time. So make your meetings matter we reorganize, reorganize your agenda. If you need to allow an extra extra few minutes to allow for discussion, allow for discussion. Don’t worry about meetings, wanting to hurry up and get back to work or excuse me, board members wanting to hurry up and get back to work. If the meeting is worth their time. If they feel like their opinion. They have a chance to share their opinion, get their questions answered. And it’s all their opinion is being considered. It might not be approved or agreed upon, but it’s being considered. They feel like and they feel like they’re having an impact. It will be worth time to stay. And you know what, it will be worth their time to come a little bit early. So they’re not just sliding in at the last minute. It 30 seconds before the start of the meeting. It might come a little early for Hey, how about an extra cup of coffee? And oh, by the way, what happens if board meetings, board members random are coming a little bit early, before meeting staying a little bit after a meeting is over? What important thing happens? What happens?
Brandon Burton 29:31
You build more of a team unity amongst the board?
Hardy Smith 29:35
Absolutely. There’s time for social interaction. And the board they may all know each other then they all do business with each other. Their their their kids all go to school they all play on the same team have the same teachers worship in the same place right. But in the board setting. They have so important they have a chance for socialization That Reince forces, okay, this is gonna be a safe place. I’m with people I have a positive relationship with, I enjoy being around, make meetings matter, and you will have a board that is fully engaged in a very positive way.
Brandon Burton 30:22
I love that great advice. There is another thing I wanted to have you touch on before we start to wrap up. And that is, you know, in the chamber world today, there’s a lot of focus on diversity, equity and inclusion. And a lot of times, chambers will look to their board and say we need to have people of a certain type represented on the board to show that we serve you know, all these different types of people and groups of people and, and whatnot. Sure, share with us your thoughts about going about to create diversity on the board, maybe some do’s and don’ts are things to be aware of. Before we start wrapping things up,
Hardy Smith 31:08
absolutely. Such an important question, such an important priority in today’s in today’s world. And let me let me share, I am not an expert on diversity. I’m a little bit better about inclusion. Big, big difference there. But you’ve got to have the D plus the I what I did and recognizing the problem that needs help. You know, here’s some important research, unfortunately. Well, fortunately, on the positive good news, bad news. So the good news his chambers included. But the good news is most nonprofits in this country do have a state positive statement about wanting to have increased diversity within their organization, specifically within their boards. That’s the good news. The bad news is the research shows very few organizations have actually made any progress taking any action at all, which is even worse. The reason why and not to not define blame here not to point fingers of fault. It’s because so many people have well intentioned individuals don’t know how. What I did was in the book, I relied on two highly qualified experts on diversity and inclusion. And Dr. Shirley Davis, world renowned expert, I interviewed and have some tremendous how to advice. And also Jim Taylor, who is the vice president for leadership development, with BoardSource. Now I will share with you both individuals are persons of color. And they are willing to share their personal experiences on being recruited strictly for board service, strictly because they’re persons of color. And that’s it, no consideration of qualifications of which they’re tremendously qualified. And that presents a huge mistake. So that’s an entire topic all in its own Brandon, I would highly recommend paying close attention to that particular I’ve devoted an entire chapter on how to achieve diversity and inclusion in the book. Thank you for asking about that.
Brandon Burton 33:36
Absolutely. I think it’s such an important topic. And before we all just, you know, go crazy and wild trying to recruit a variety of diversity on our boards. Let’s make sure we’re we’re doing it in a thoughtful way a meaningful way that’s really going to keep all of the board members engaged especially those you’re trying to bring on a maybe diverse backgrounds. But Hardy before we wrap up here I wanted to ask you what might be one tip or action items that a chamber champion could take to help elevate their organization up to the next level.
Action Item/Tip for Chamber Champions
Hardy Smith 34:11
Brandon this is this is probably probably one of my favorite tips. So Chamber Champions, here you go. Here’s the secret sauce. This is what you’ve been waiting for Pay Attention please be intentional about board relationships. And start that intentionality with recruiting board members with purpose and process established and we’ve talked about this establish clarity on expectations, yours and theirs and make sure your your Magic Cup and the matching up in the middle for the the sweet spot and that those are the expectations that are going to get there are going to happen. And don’t assume don’t assume that the direction of your board one year is the same is it’s going to be the next year or in future years. So be intentional about board relationships.
Brandon Burton 35:09
That is a great tip hopefully everybody if you didn’t have a chance to write it down hit the backup button on your your podcast player and listen again, it committed to memory. Hardy what would be? Well, I like to ask everyone I have on the podcast this question as we all like to look to the future and try to be prepared. How do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?
Future of Chambers
Hardy Smith 35:32
Wow, what a you know, that’s that you could just say what a loaded question but yeah, you know, being clairvoyant. Okay. All here. Here’s what I see. Chambers, like all organizations are challenged with staying relevant. Another book reference for you, a good speaker, colleague, consultant, colleague of mine is Mary bars, who wrote 10 years ago, race for relevance. She’s just done an update 10 year anniversary edition of rate relevance, and it’s about associations. Huge, huge reference throughout the book to chambers of commerce, and nonprofits as well. But chambers, again, like all over innovations, have got to be able to adapt to find new ways to implement the three key concept that chambers use, you know, a being that converter, catalyst and champion. So the way that you approached that concept 50 years ago, or 100 years ago, if you’ve paid attention to Chris meads, excellent book, Magicians of Mainstreet fabulous, fabulous book about about the history of chambers of Commerce’s across the United States, you’ll know that change and challenge has been a part of chamber world from the very beginning. So what we’re experiencing now what we’re likely to, or what we will experience going forward into the future. It’s no different. It’s just coming from a different place. So there’s always going to be change and challenge. And chambers have got to be able to adapt my solution, my How To, to be able to get the tool for adapting is benefit from a fully engaged board that’s used as a high value asset. And stop the nonprofit board blame game, we’ll show you how to do that.
Brandon Burton 37:48
I love that view. Your board is a high valuable asset that they really are. So don’t don’t take advantage of it. But Hardy I am so happy to have you on the podcast. Today I’d like to give you an opportunity to share any contact information with the with Chamber Champions listening, let them know where they can find the book. Anything you want to put out there as we wrap up.
Connect with Hardy Smith
Hardy Smith 38:11
Well, thank you so much, Brandon and Chamber Champions. Thank you for listening to this podcast. Thank you for listening to all of the Chamber Chat Podcast, you know what a great source of information that you have. And thank you for what you do in your communities across the country. I’m easy to find HardySmith.com is my website. Okay, find a book on the links to Amazon and Barnes and Noble and all those links are there in the website at Hardy smith.com I’d certainly welcome hearing from Chamber Champions who have maybe a particular issue they’d like to have some pop and advice on email me Hardy@HardySmith.com. I certainly welcome connecting on LinkedIn and Twitter as well. So that I look forward to continuing the conversation with chamber professionals. Thank you.
Brandon Burton 39:11
Absolutely. And I’ll I’ll get all the contact information with links to your social media and book links and everything in our show notes for this episode, which will be found at chamberchatpodcast.com/episode 163. But Hardy has been a pleasure having you with us today on Chamber Chat Podcast bringing a lot of value and really I’d love for everybody to pick up a copy of his book and read it because it really will save you a lot of frustration. And thanks a lot Hardy.
Hardy Smith 39:41
Thank you, Brandon. Thank you.
Brandon Burton 39:42
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