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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.
Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your hosts Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.
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Our guest for this episode is Dale Kooyenga. Dale grew up in as the oldest of four children in a blue collar family. He played college basketball at Moraine Valley Community College, followed by Lakeland University. Following graduation from Lakeland University, Dale moved to Milwaukee and immediately fell in love with the Milwaukee community, inspired by the events of September 11, Dale joined the US Army alongside two of his brothers. He attended a fit Officer Candidate School, followed by the Army’s military intelligence officer training program, Dale was assigned to the United States Army, civil affairs, psychology, Operations Command in 2008 he was deployed to Iraq with the 400 and 32nd civil affairs battalion as part of the surge strategy led by General David Petraeus. Dale was awarded the Bronze Star for service in Iraq. In addition to his service in Iraq, Dale has served in military intelligence units attached to the Defense Intelligence Agency, two company commands, including command of Wisconsin’s First Army Reserve Counter Intelligence Unit, and overseas assignments with NATO allies in Europe and in South Korea. Dale currently holds the rank of lieutenant colonel and as the battalion commander for the 407th Army Reserve civil affairs battalion. In his civilian career, Dale is the President at the Metropolitan Milwaukee Association of Commerce. The MMCA represents over 2000 businesses serving as the region’s boardroom in pursuit of a globally competitive economy that fosters high value jobs, sustains a vibrant quality of life for all, Dale is a certified public public accountant, and obtained his MBA from Marquette University prior to joining MMAC, Dale served eight years as Wisconsin state representative and then four years in the Wisconsin State Senate, where he developed a reputation as a hard working, pragmatic Problem Solver who worked across party lines. Dale and his wife Jennifer have four children, their son grant and three daughters, Taylor, Quinn and Ada. Dale, I’m excited to have you with us today here on Chamber Chat Podcast. First of all, thank you for your your dedicated service, but welcome to the show. Give you a chance to say hello to all the Chamber Champions who are out there listening, and I’d love to give you a chance to share something interesting about yourself, maybe that we didn’t cover, so we can all get to know you a little bit better.
Dale Kooyenga 3:37
Yeah. Well, thanks for having me on the show, and hello to my fellow colleagues in the chamber world. This is a whole world I’d never thought of three four years ago. I do a lot of speaking with high schoolers, and we do a lot of programming as far as you can’t be what you can’t see. And I you know new associations existed, knew they had presidents and CEOs and all that stuff, but never thought of myself in that role up until about two and a half years ago in the interview process. So great. I love it. It’s It’s amazing where life brings you love, where I’m at in regards to interesting things that people don’t know about me, that’s only to be revealed on your podcast no one else knows, besides the koinga kids and some of their select friends, is I do a very mean, authentic Donald Duck impersonation.
Brandon Burton 4:28
All right,
Dale Kooyenga 4:32
there’s some interesting those
Brandon Burton 4:34
are one of those things that between father and the children, like grandchildren, something like, that’s that’s something, a special bond that you’ll have. I can’t. It’s a weird thing. I
Dale Kooyenga 4:45
can never be able to snap. I try to try to be like, Oh, it’s so easy. Why didn’t they try to teach you I cannot snap. But somehow, God gave me this ability to make Donald Duck noises.
Brandon Burton 4:53
There you go. Hey, that’s got to be worth something. It’ll never be on the resume, but there it is. That’s right, you. Well, give us some background about your chamber. Give us an idea of size, staff, scope of work, budget, just all of that to kind of set the stage for the perspective that you’re coming from as we enter into our discussion today.
Dale Kooyenga 5:12
Well, I appreciate that, because as we talk about how healthy and impactful the Metropolitan Milwaukee Association of Commerce is, I have to acknowledge, is that I’m fully aware that I’m on third base. I did not get a triple. It was primarily my predecessor before me, Tim Sheehy, who has been the president for 30 years, 31 years, and there for 40 years at the MMAC. So very, very appreciative for his leadership. The impacts he’s had, really has led a great chamber, and also the community in general. So we’ve been around since 1861 so we have, you know, just like a lot of associations, there’s a bunch of at the time, gentlemen who were upset with things going on in the community or just thought that there needed to be a change in some institutional guidance, in addition to a government and formed our association in downtown Milwaukee. We’re now, you know, we’re metro Milwaukee, but really more of a Regional Chamber in Southeast Wisconsin, and we do have aspects of our business, including health insurance program and a food and beverage group, among other initiatives that are statewide in Wisconsin. So it’s a very robust chamber. We do a lot of lobbying, primarily at the state level, to a lesser extent, at the federal and local level. We, like any association, do events. We have a health insurance plan. We actually have a sub Sarah doing Milwaukee development, corporate sales, real estate, and that’s just a scratch of service. So we’re in a lot of different things and really making a big impact here in Milwaukee.
Brandon Burton 6:45
Yeah, that’s fantastic. I’m excited about our topic for discussion today, especially after going through your bio, the background that you have, the military service, estate service, you know, civil service, to be able to get your perspective as you entered the chamber world, and what some of those first impressions were, how you adapted, and just the story around that. And we’ll dive into that much deeper as soon as we get back from this quick break.
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All right, Dale, we’re back. As I mentioned before the break today, we’re going to be focusing our discussion primarily on what some of your first impressions were as you entered into the chamber world. Like you mentioned, you didn’t even know this world existed to the level it does until you’re in it. But just tell us from from your background and the the introductions you had in the chamber world. What were some of those first impressions and reactions that kind of introduced you into this space? Well, my
Dale Kooyenga 9:28
first interactions with the association was when I was in political office, and they would come and lobby me. So it’s funny, when I was looking for jobs, I was interviewing, I actually had a couple positions already in mind where I knew the direction I wanted to go, and it was not a political direction. I didn’t want to go. Politics was always something I did. It was never something I was and so I didn’t want to do something where I was in the political realm. So I remember our current chair, Austin Ramirez, was CEO. Of a husco, which is a manufacturing company in the automotive space in here in Milwaukee area. He called me up and said, Hey, you Tim, she’s not going to be around forever. We’re looking for someone to be positioned at MMAC and then transition into possibly his role someday. Would you be interested? My reaction, immediately, without even thinking about was, No, I’m not, and the reason was because I thought of NBC as a lobbying organization, and I didn’t want to be a lobbyist. I didn’t want to have that be part of my post political life. And I remember I hung up the phone that night. I’m a solid sleeper, but I woke with the middle of night, and just thought about that very brief conversation, and I looked at MHC on the internet, and it just struck me, man, there’s a lot more to this organization than what I saw on the receiving end of the lobbying, economic development, the events, the the business line activities that we provide to our members. And it really struck me as like, this is actually a perfect fit for my background. Was a business background and a political background and the military leadership I learned. And so I remember thinking, Is there a time too early to call a CEO a multi million dollar company and say, Hey, can I get a take back? And I did just that. I called him at 7am and said, Austin, can I get take back? I actually am interested. That’s that’s perceived with what this process looks like. And so proceed with that process. There’s a national search and an interview process, and it obviously went well. Here I am. So that was my initial thought. And I just, you know, really, actually enjoy the public policy work we do. I would say it’s about 30% of my job, if I had to quantify it, but it’s been really impactful. And I just have a really deep respect for associations, because I really deep respect for America, and I mean some cheesy about that, but if you look at TED Talk, Phil as far as what makes America America, he talks about those institutions and the institutions that are outside of government to help shape the Democratic Republic governance process and how impactful that is. You know, just one more thought on that. I apologize be long winded. You know, just last week, there was a Nobel Prize, a peace prize, awarded to two authors of a book called Why nations fail and the book goes around the world and talks about places where there’s the same people, it’s genetic makeup, the same climate, but somehow radically different economic results, or community health. And you look at East Berlin, West Berlin, Nogales, US side Nogales, Mexico, side North Korea, South Korea. And there’s a couple key takeaways in the book about what works and what doesn’t work. But one of the things is that institutional strength leads to a healthier community and economy, and the Chamber world is part of that institutional strength, clearly. And so I’m a romantic. I believe in our country. I believe in meaningful work, meaningful relationships. And so when I find myself in this job, I mean, this is the perfect job for what I believe and live and what I want to do, and looking at what I think makes an impact to community. I think associations really do matter, and I think I’m at an association that has is and will matter in the future.
Brandon Burton 13:29
Well, I’m glad that Austin reached out to you. I’m glad that he took your your immediate call back the next morning, because we need people like you in the chamber world and having the unique background you do. I was going to ask about the percentage of lobbying time that you give in your current position, and I think you covered that with about a third of the time is kind of focused in that, that direction and the advocacy part. But I guess my question is, how? How can the chamber community in general, how can we do a better job of relaying what it is that the chambers do for communities, to strengthen and build communities. So when you know the next Dale coin goes out there trying to be recruited for the next chamber executive seat doesn’t shoot it down because, you know, the it the work is being seen. It’s being recognized. And it’s not just that surface layer initial reaction, I guess, do you have any thoughts of what, what the chamber community at large could do better to to attract people with with great backgrounds to the industry,
Dale Kooyenga 14:43
I think primarily telling the story I just told, as far as the importance of institutions. I mean another great book by Robert Putnam that I think is now, gosh, 20 years old, but it’s still very relevant, maybe older than that is bullying alone and the propensity of individuals. Go alone and be alone, as opposed to plugging into associations and institutions and groups like the rotaries and the legions and things like that. So I think it’s that person that wants to press and push for a community. I also think it needs to be a doer. I see a lot of associations and chambers that tell people what they do. I don’t think they are as effective as showing people what they do. And what I mean by that is you can’t have your meetings. You can’t have your board members being given a show and talking about a topic. They want action. They want to see things shaped. They want to see state statutes eliminated, modified or created. They want to see buildings going up. They want to see crime going down. They want to see relationships form that create tangible, substantive fruits for the community. So I see a lot of event, heavy conversation, heavy associations and chambers, and my recommendation would be, that’s good, that’s deliberative, that’s healthy, but you gotta translate that into effective action that actually changed the landscape. Otherwise, you’re just a bunch of talking heads about radio show.
Brandon Burton 16:25
Yeah, I think that’s a key point to be be a doer show that action, and I’d say, from your perspective, before you came into the chamber world, your your point of view of the doer, the action that the chamber is doing was as a lobbyist. So it makes sense, that’s what you would see, right? Yeah, it
Dale Kooyenga 16:45
was in my office. So that was the engagement. I was my value to the association, was my ability to write and vote on laws. And so that was the face I saw. I was in the business community, but at my level of CFO in midser companies, I was not engaged. Maybe I should have been, but I was not engaged from a business level with the Association, like, like I should have been. So that was my perch. That’s what I saw. And you see what you see from your perch. And so it’s really good to see now all the different other aspects to what we do and why we do it.
Brandon Burton 17:19
Yeah, absolutely. I think it’s just a it’s a fascinating idea, just to think about the perspectives that one comes into the chamber world. I love getting people’s stories of how they found the chamber industry, how they were invited in. Some people, you know, it’s out of high school, some it’s after a very productive career. Some it’s just by total accident, right? But being able to see how people are introduced, how they can take their skill set and be able to apply it to make a an organization of action, to be able to really drive things forward within their community, is what I think. That’s what makes the chamber work so special. That’s what makes it the industry, such a special thing. I’d like to always ask for chambers that are out there looking to take their chamber next to the next to the next level. You’ve given some great, you know, action points already, but what kind of tip or action item might you share with listeners who are interested in taking their organization to the next level? Um,
Dale Kooyenga 18:23
I mean, have an engaged board that you could actually call upon to help with things. I mean, they’re there for a reason. And so, you know, don’t be afraid to engage your board and have them be what we call the military force multipliers. So, so that’d be the big thing I would. I mean you gotta serve your members and what the members want. I think in this space, there’s probably few memberships that are politically uniform in one direction, and so therefore, I would encourage a chamber of association to be mindful that if you look like you are a part of a political party, or just relationship wise, on one side of the political party, you’re probably going to minimize your ability to get things done. And now I say that because the nation’s different, and I can’t pretend or dive down into what’s your politics look like, where your chamber association is. I can tell you from Milwaukee, we are a purple state in Wisconsin. Milwaukee is blue, like most large metros, our outer part of our region is more red, and so therefore we have and we will and to be most effective, we have very healthy relationships with both sides of the aisle. And I would say that our membership, especially our board, is bipartisan and probably increasingly no partisan that claim no party. And so we need to be in the relationship business. We can’t be in the political ideology business, and we. Need to know what’s right for our community, and sometimes that falls in different parts of political spectrum. But I mean, I’ll just give an example, like last year, we had a really, really big win. The city and the county of Milwaukee were in a very tough financial position for reasons that was no fault of anybody that was in office or in power. These were decisions made decades ago related to pension issues, and the big compromise we need with both parties was Republicans wanted more police on the street. Wanted more public safety. Democrats wanted additional revenue in the form of a sales tax and sure and more shared revenue from state. Both parties wanted more fiscal solvency, which meant freezing some pensions. It meant so that goes to the whole deal, but there was a compromise made on both sides that we put together, and now this fiscal State of the County the city are much, much better. They’re not closing libraries. They are adding police to the street. They no longer have this infant, these infamous pension plans. So that’s what I’m talking about. I mean, for us, I think you really don’t be a be politically astute and make sure you’re in the relationship business, not the political ideology business.
Brandon Burton 21:18
I think that’s great advice. And your comments, you know, resonate with being the same center, you know, when it comes to political issues. But I, I’ve heard it said that if, if you can resonate with what makes for a good, you know, pro business environment. If that’s your members, that’s what’s, you know, supporting organizations and business members when it comes to politics, if you’re doing things that are that support business, that grow business, you have that to stand on, and it’s not doesn’t have to be a political party at all. And oftentimes you’ll find things on both sides of the aisle that support business. And if that’s your mission, to drive business, drive your local economy, you can’t go wrong if that’s your focus, but builds relationships along the way. So that’s absolutely key.
Dale Kooyenga 22:09
See, like, for example, is, you know, I can really be angry right now with you and like, be hostile because you’re clearly a 49 ish fan.
Unknown Speaker 22:17
Yeah,
Dale Kooyenga 22:18
I’m a Packers fan, but I’m still going to be pleasant and polite and find common ground here. So yeah, and I’ll forgive you a perfect example.
Brandon Burton 22:29
That’s right, and you’ve got the American flag behind us. That makes it all better. So we’re there you go. We’re on the same team. Yeah, that’s good. Well, as we look to the future of chambers of commerce. How do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?
Dale Kooyenga 22:45
Well, you need to fight for it. I don’t think you can assume that there’s some sort of inertia with membership, either growing your membership or retaining your membership, if you’re just going to keep the same model that you had yesterday. I there has to be value propositions within your I mean, I know they say it’s not transactional, and you know, you should do this for the good of community. I think there’ll be a good percentage of companies that believe that, but it’s going to erode when a recession happens. I think you gotta find your value proposition, whether directly or indirectly. And you know, you gotta have your why, like, why do I need you part of the you know why. And for us, it’s Milwaukee without the Metropolitan walk. Association of Commerce is in Milwaukee without the Milwaukee Brewers. It’s in Milwaukee without the Milwaukee Bucks. It’s a Milwaukee without a river that’s being cleaned up, that’s going to return native species of fish and cleaning up chemicals from 100 years ago that are at the bottom of the river. It’s a Milwaukee that has huge financial issues, as opposed to solvency day. So we, we, our value proposition is, imagine a Milwaukee without a Mac and you think, oh gosh, and walk without, without. That is not a city I want to live in. It’s not a city I can recruit talent to. So you got to get there. And I think non dues revenue is has to be part of your plan. For us, our non dues revenue continues to grow and grow and grow, and we are hungry after growing that our health insurance plan and combination United Healthcare has been very, very good for us, and that continues to grow. And not only is it good for our revenue, but it’s clearly a solution to our members, and we actually offer it to non members as well, which is why they’re purchasing it. I mean, they wouldn’t purchase it, but wasn’t a value for them. So they’re they’re saving money. We’re making money. It looks like we’re going to go to market with some other innovative things revolving around maybe 401, Ks to help reduce costs and give access to some of the HR tools that larger companies would have. So it’s a twofer, but I think you really need to focus on you. A stream for that non dues revenue to diversify your revenue streams, because I’m just leery that the philanthropy and the community involvement will be as strong as it has been in years past in America.
Brandon Burton 25:18
Well, I think in that explanation you just gave the what the new tagline, or slogan for the Milwaukee, you know, MMAC should be, you know, think of Milwaukee without the bucks, without the brewers. Yeah, that’s what we do, right?
Dale Kooyenga 25:32
Yeah. And this is very specific to Milwaukee, and I know, and I’ll just give it put me it means a lot to us, a whole lot to us. But the biggest one is, imagine a Milwaukee without, and I can name it doesn’t mean, I think to you, but without a st Marcus, without a Milwaukee Academy of Sciences, without an odd prep. And what those schools represent, I just said, is, they represent very high performing schools that are in parts of Milwaukee with high poverty. And one of the things I think my predecessor, if he had, if I had to choose one accomplishment to put on his on his marker someday, say, This is what Tim Sheehy accomplished. Is Tim Sheehy alongside a former superintendent of walk public schools here in 1991 so this is not working when you try something radically different. And that’s where the concept of school choice came from, and now you see the concept of school of choice growing nationally. And they came out of Milwaukee. It came out of MMAC, and our relationship with a gentleman named Howard Fuller, and now that has grown not only in Wisconsin, but it’s grown to a national concept that parents should be able to decide where to send their kids based on your academic standards and based on your principles, whether that be rooted in religion or ethics, whatever that is. And so that’s, that’s the big, bold change. And I think, you know, chambers and associations do need to take some risk. I mean, you can’t just always put your weight on a topic that you have 100% agreement on because if you have 100% agreement on it, you’re probably not getting after a social injustice. You’re probably not getting after an issue in your community, because there are people and sometimes institutions that are rooted in social injustices, and you need to get out to that. So I would also argue, as I talk about, you know, being smart and being pragmatic, that doesn’t mean that you’re always safe. And in the long run, I think you’ll be rewarded for taking some risk and taking some big issues head on.
Brandon Burton 27:36
I agree. I think that’s that was very well said. Well, Dale, as we wrap things up, I wanted to give you a chance to share any contact information for listeners who may want to reach out and connect with you and learn more about how you guys are doing things and taking care of business there in Milwaukee. What would be the best way for someone to reach out and connect LinkedIn?
Dale Kooyenga 27:56
Send me a LinkedIn message, D, A, L, E, and his last name’s K, o, o, y, E, N, G, A, and I am the only Dale coin go in the world. So you will not be confused with a another deal coin go.
Brandon Burton 28:08
That’s good. Well, we’ll get a link to your LinkedIn account in our show notes for this episode too, to make it nice and easy and they don’t need to worry about spelling if they’re in the car driving or wherever they’re doing. Sounds good. Dale, it’s been great having you on the show. I appreciate you taking some time to be with us and share some of the impact and and your perspective as you entered the chamber world and and how chambers can make a bigger impact in their communities. I really appreciate you sharing your insights with us today.
Dale Kooyenga 28:37
Thanks, Brandon, thanks for having me. If
Brandon Burton 28:39
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