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Chamber Churn & Balance with Mike Throne

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Brandon Burton 0:00
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Our guest for this episode is Mike Throne. Mike is the President and CEO of the Chillicothe Ross Chamber in Ohio. Mike has always been a storyteller has a sixth grader near Sandusky, Ohio he arrived home from school one day proclaiming he wanted to be a journalist when he grew up. He wrote stories as a child and use scrap paper stapled together to produce his first official issue. A five pager including a recap of pickup baseball game he and his friends played earlier that day. Sales were not good. After graduating from Bowling Green State University. He began nearly 25 year career in newspapers starting as a rural reporter and becoming an editor of two newspapers picking up numerous local state and national awards for himself and his staff. But he found his passion in Chillicothe. He as a small town from southern Ohio, he yearned to become part of the renaissance of Ohio’s first capitol. In 2018, he became the president and CEO of the Chillicothe Ross Chamber of Commerce. And again, the story of the resurgence of the place he called Ohio’s best small town. In addition to his chamber duties, he co hosts the feels like home podcast, which furthers his efforts to tell his community stories. He also serves on several boards in the community, including chairing the Board of Trustees for the pumphouse Center for the Arts. Mike, I’m excited to have you with us today, you’re on Chamber Chat Podcast, I’d love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the Chamber Champions who are out there listening and share something interesting about yourself that maybe wasn’t included in your bio. Well,

Mike Throne 2:52
Brandon, first of all, thank you for the invitation. And it’s an honor to be on the show. And I think it’s important to note that I’m so good of an editor that I edited out the two homeruns that I hit in that pickup baseball game. But, you know, I’m really excited to be here because I think the chamber life has been pretty transforming for me. And so I like to share parts of my experience. And I think it’s just one of those things where the more I can really my mom and many people that I’ve talked to have always said I should have been a teacher I should have because summers off really sounds like a great idea, but but I like the fact that we have forums like this and other forums where we can share our experiences and help chamber executives and their staffs really grow their knowledge and and again, as you said earlier, just serve their members better. Yes, I

Brandon Burton 3:51
appreciate that. And I I like platforms like this. I may be a little biased, but I think it energizes those that listen and participate. Because you get to hear what the other guy’s doing and be able to take things and scale it for your chamber and and hopefully make your life a little bit easier. That’s that’s kind of the goal. Absolutely. Well tell us a little bit more about the Chillicothe, the Ross chamber just give us an idea size staff budget scope of work, you guys are involved with that sort of thing just to kind of set the stage for our discussion.

Mike Throne 4:21
So the Chillicothe Ross Chamber of Commerce has been around since I guess, since since the 1880s when it was first formed as a Board of Trade. But in the early 1900s It became an official Chamber of Commerce, transferring its name to a chamber of commerce. So we’ve been around for 100 plus years. And we currently have about 775 members. We’re located in southern Ohio about midway between Huntington West Virginia or Kentucky depending how you look at the tri state area, and Columbus, Ohio. We’re only about 40 minutes south of Columbus, Ohio. And so we’ve kind of got a niche is sort of a Regional Chamber. We draw a lot of members from around around the surrounding county areas. But predominantly, we focus on the Ross County area, we have a staff of three, that’s myself on events and marketing person, and membership, person as well. We bring in about, on average, about $240,000 of dues revenue each year. And total income of probably right around 375,000. We just made a switch this year, we had three, we’ve always had three positions. But we have traditionally not had an events and marketing person split out, I had my membership and events all under one when I arrived in 20, late 2018. And so this year, we had an opportunity, somebody left. And so we thought, well, this is the opportunity that we have to make our membership person a true membership person and split off the events duties. So that’s been our biggest, our biggest change this year. And so in many ways, you know, it’s only we’re not even halfway through the year yet. So we’re still trying to navigate what that looks like. And but it’s been, it’s been really successful so far. That’s

Brandon Burton 6:25
good. Yeah, I can see where membership and events and marketing where there’s a lot of overlap, and where one person may feel like they kind of need the control over all of it. But there’s definitely enough work to spread it out to two or three people maybe even but being able to have that coordinated effort between them to make sure we’re all moving in the right direction, right? Yep.

Mike Throne 6:49
Yeah. And I just felt like there was a lot of stops and starts, every time we’d have a big event. It was sort of like okay, membership meeting, slow down or pause. And I just felt like, you know, the membership duties being segmented out. We could just focus on membership for 12 months a year. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 7:06
that’s smart. So for our topic for our conversation today, for this episode, we focus or we decided to focus on discussing the chamber turn that we’re seeing throughout the chamber world. And part of that some of the balance and some of the work life balance that we need to be mindful of to try to retain us as a chamber professionals and not get too burned out and be adding to that churn too quickly. So we will dive into this discussion much deeper as soon as they get back from this quick break.

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All right, Mike, we are back. As I mentioned before the break, we’re talking today about chamber churn, but also the work life balance aspect to try to help support those chamber champions that are out there. I know from my my vantage point, my point of view from especially since the pandemic, I think that was really an accelerator of seeing this churn of chamber executives and, and staff were, you know, it was everything 100%, you know, during the pandemic, and I think at least it led to a lot of burnout, it led to a on the other hand, a lot of satisfaction, because chambers were able to see the value, the community was able to recognize the value of the chamber, but I think the the balance got out of whack a bit there. But from your perspective, what have you seen and what what comes to mind, as you see think of chamber churn. But

Mike Throne 10:59
I think it hits really, really close to home to me, in fact, of the five or six county area around me, I have one county to my north, that is churn their leader three times since the end of 2020. Another chamber that’s churned its leader four times since the end of 2020. And another county near me that has turned it three times since 2020. And then if you look around, some of the folks that I got to know in my first year, they’re gone in their predecessor, or their their successor, are also gone. I’m part of the chamber executives of Chamber of Commerce, executives of Ohio CEO group, which is a group designed specifically for executives. And we haven’t really run the numbers fully yet. But I would say, venture a guess that half of the positions and there are, you know, a lot of chambers in Ohio that have churned leaders over that span. I think COVID was a part of it. I think COVID was a very big waking event for people, to let them see just how aggressive their schedule was, and how hard they’re working. And, you know, I come from this from from the perspective of spending 25 years in the journalism business where the last three years or two years, I was the editor over two papers, and I was strung out and really just stressed out, I get home and my young kids were already in bed, and I hadn’t seen them all day, and I just really needed, I needed a change, I didn’t enjoy my work anymore. And so, you know, I had applied for this job five years before it came open. Didn’t get it then. But when it came back open again, I was a little reluctant to do it. But the more that I’ve looked at it, the more I felt like this is a good a good change for me. And I have the opportunity to work with my board to set the realistic goals, boundaries and values that will allow me to have that work life balance. And so, you know, I guess from the chamber churn perspective, I look at, you know, Glenn Shepards, report every month and see all these people that are leaving, or going from one to the other. And I just even look at my IOM class from last year, I’m currently in my second year. And the number of people that have left from that class alone just gives me great concern about who we’re getting for leaders. And then I think, how we address that, you know, I’m five years into this job, I don’t really consider myself a veteran, like many of the other folks that do this job. But we’re going to need to invest in those leaders to make sure that they don’t fall into the same traps. And I think the other part of it, too, is to create for our own selves. The boundaries that we know will help sustain us to go deep into this career if we really want that.

Brandon Burton 14:07
Yeah. So you’ve quickly become one of the old timers as everybody around you. It’s kind of

Mike Throne 14:14
a joke. You go from rookie to veteran real quickly in this industry, right? That’s

Brandon Burton 14:20
right. And at the same time, there’s those veterans that have been around, you know, their majority of their career that have a ton of value to offer to those who are new to the industry and and hopefully having platforms like this and state conferences and associations and IOM you know, that it’s opportunities to be able to learn from those that that have good stuff to pass on. What really stood out to me he had mentioned a couple of times these boundaries and values that allow for you to hopefully try to strike a balance between your work and your life. What does that look like? I guess her something because he had mentioned personal boundaries, but also that your board has been amenable to accepting boundaries and values that that you have as well. Can you talk to that a little bit? Sure.

Mike Throne 15:12
So I read a book few years ago called sacred rest, and it’s by Dr. Sondra, Dalton Smith. And she and that book talks about. And it actually came at a really important time. For me, it was produced in 2017, this was at the height of when I was really burned out. Emotionally, I loved being a journalist, I loved being an editor, we did great work, we served our community well. But inside, I was just really, really tired. And mentally, I really was going through the motions every day. And I read this book, and I started really, I didn’t really have an opportunity to apply a lot of the things that were in the book, until I kind of left that career because it was just such high energy, always on always, you know, you’re always worried about the stories that you don’t miss, and so on. And so in the book, Dr. Dalton Smith talks about getting seven types of rest. And they include physical rest, mental rest, social rest, spiritual rest, sensory rest, emotional rest, and then creative rest. And I realized very quickly, that creative rest was not something that I did not do much of, I was always just going and always in a in a, you know, an office setting. And, and so even though the journalism business can be very creative, I never took time to get outside of the walls of the office and appreciate the community that I live in, or, you know, we have great trails and other things around us. Not none of that stuff was I doing? And so I had to figure out how to get the seven types of risks, and you’re not going to get them every day. But how can I work them into my week and work them into my mental schedule. So that way I can, I can tell, you know, that I’m, I’m getting too out of balance in one area. You know, sensory rest is very, very important. Taking a break from social media, I think we need to all do that quite a bit, turning off your notifications, one of the ways that I do it is at nine o’clock every night, my notifications shut off, they don’t come back on again until seven in the morning. Most of my good friends and my work my co workers and people on my board know, if something is really really urgent, you know, they can get to me somehow, usually through my wife, they’ll call but you know, that sort of thing is where we, we need to sort of set that boundary and create that situation where you know, and in all honesty, I think it’s limiting your video meetings as much as possible to because the more we’re in front of the screens, the more I feel like it’s a little bit more draining, you have to, you know, it’s a little bit more of a challenge to do some of those things. So I really started to look at what this book offered to me. And started taking it piece by piece for one week, I would just think about, okay, how do I get physical rest? You know, and I found that I was sleeping five to six hours in the night. Yeah. And you know, I’m 55. Now I’m not 25. And it’s just not working. So how do I get more rest. And part of that physical rest, too is I do stretching, you know, I try to get up and around and in those types of things. So I think those are the things that I have really locked into. And I think the number one thing is to make sure that you enjoy your work. I have talked, you know, we talked earlier about the fact that I was just not I loved the journalism business, but I was done with it. And it was done with me. So did I enjoy that work, I enjoyed the people that I worked with, and that’s what I miss, I miss the big story. But I don’t miss the day to day grind of it. And that’s why I had to leave, I didn’t enjoy it anymore. And so, you know, I think when we sit down and we look at our daily tasks as chamber leaders, it’s about making sure that you enjoy the work, knowing your values, knowing your boundaries, setting realistic goals for yourself. You know, if you if you’re a if you’re a new chamber director, you know, anywhere is up, right? So you might say to yourself, maybe you know, 200 new members in a year is a great goal. Is it realistic, and have conversations with your board about that? And then the last one that I’ll say is that you have to create a self care plan. You know, for some people, it might, it might look like taking a walk every day for other people it will be, you know, a massage or, you know, buying yourself an ergonomic chair or, or things like that, but what is your self care plan? So that way, you know, hey, I’m kind of stressed out, I need to take a step back and say, You know what I would really like, I’d like to go for a nice long hike today, or if you’re a runner, take a nice run. And part of that self care plan is getting, you know, sometimes back in the gym, you don’t have to lift weights and get buff, but, you know, take, take a little walk on the treadmill, or, you know, work out some of the stress of your life. And so I think those those types of things can help us as we go through the daily grind of the of the job. And look, there’s some times that it’s easier than others, right? If you got a big event coming up, it’s probably going to be a high intense, you know, very arduous time, you probably are going to be lacking in some of those things. But trying to figure out how after that event is over, or that big push that you have on his over to try to get yourself back in balance.

Brandon Burton 21:12
Yeah, yeah, there’s gonna be Sprint’s for sure. We’re, it’s all hands on deck, and you got to give it your all for, you know, maybe a few weeks there, leading up to a big event. But I think that the nature of chambers, and I don’t know that it has to be this way. But it tends to be what’s evolved, at least into what chambers are where, especially as a chamber executive, you’re out and about in the community, people see you, you see people, you need to say hi, and it make those connections, make sure you have good reports as business owners, so they don’t say, man that Mike is a jerk, you came in here and didn’t even say hi, and he probably doesn’t even know I’m a member, right. So you always have your chamber face on. And then inherently there’s, I don’t know, many chambers out there who don’t have a business after hours, right. And that gets into some of the boundaries where you know, or it’s the before hours, they are the breakfast mixers or things like that. And it’s good to have these opportunities for people to gather and network and, but you probably don’t need to be at every single one of them, right. So schedule a rotation with your staff or with board members or have a schedule to where you don’t have to be the face at every one of those events. And I think that that would play well into the balance. And I think to your point on the self care, we need an outlet, right, we need to be able to have a healthy way to let go of some of the stressors that that we carry. And unfortunately, a lot of people will turn to things like alcohol to be able to numb out and get through to the next day. And then that just compounds on the issues that they see day to day. So I think these are great points, as

Mike Throne 22:57
well. And there’s a great way to know that if you go to rest quiz.com r estquiz.com. You can take a quiz, and find out what type of rest you really lack, to live your best life. And that’s Dr. Dalton Smith website. And in all honesty, like taking that quiz was very eye opening. And I I always encourage people to take that quiz because you don’t know where you’re lacking. You think you do, but you don’t know where you’re lacking. And I want to touch on a point that you said as well, you were talking about, you know, the the member that thinks oh, they probably don’t even know if I’m a member. So my first couple of months into this job. The journalism job is a very, very head down, push forward, do your thing. And so when I came here, I had certain habits. And one of them was when I lock into a project or if I’m locked into learning something, I am always going to be head down plow forward. And I was in my office here one one morning and really not aware of what was going out on outside the lobby and I came out and went and walked past somebody as I walked by, and then did my thing came back in my office and just plowed forward again. Hours later, I got a call from my board chair and he said, Hey, I just got a call from the person that was standing outside. And she said that you were rude to her that you didn’t even acknowledge her and so on and so forth. And I was like, I don’t even recall there being you know, like an entity as I walked by. And long story short, she just lost her husband about a month earlier. Literally, I could probably reach out and touch the building that she works in next door. Never met her. And then I realized you know in that situation I had caused hurt her in pain right on top of the hurt and pain that she already felt from the loss that she had. So immediately, I went over and apologized to her. And I mean, we’ve had a great relationship ever since. But you know, those are the things that sometimes we get locked into, when we’re still trying to do all the things that we’ve got to do, we have to remember that this job is ultimately first about relationships, and about how we make people feel, I can tell you a million times that the chamber is here for you. But if I walk past you, right after you’ve lost your husband, and I don’t even acknowledge you, all of that goes out the window. And so, you know, I always have people around me, I’ve got a group of friends that I trust to say, you know, you probably need to spend more time with your family, you probably need to spend more time doing this or that. And I’m blessed with that I’m blessed with a great staff, as you mentioned earlier, to send to other to have a rotation that we can do things because honestly, it is it’s too much to do all by yourself.

Brandon Burton 26:08
Yeah. Back to the thought that comes to mind is to don’t be a busy chamber exec, you know, it, yes, you are going to be busy. But what I mean by that is don’t show the busyness as you interact with people, or have the stress on your face, you know, as you have those interactions that needs to be warm and genuine with those that you come in contact with. Because you don’t always know, you know, when they’re having that bad day, or when they really need the chamber. And just to be able to be that genuine face that really is there to support them is so valuable. So I think the boundary part, though, so as you’re out in the community, you know, if you and your wife go to dinner, this is a it should be quote unquote, you know, personal time, right? A date night, you know, but how do you set aside? Or do you have to go to dinner outside of the community? I don’t know. What do you do to be able to straddle that line of balance to where your wife feels like she’s getting what she needs, and then those in the community that you interact with, feel like they’re getting what they need.

Mike Throne 27:19
So just in case my wife listens to this, I’m gonna, I’m gonna have to be honest. So my father in law, owns a business in town, he’s on school boards, and is a well known figure in our community. So if we go to dinner with them, My in laws, and my wife, my, my wife, and my mother in law, know, to just go to the table. And we’ll work our way to where they always hope that we get seated fairly close to the entrance. Because if not, we’re going to see a million people that we know, and we’re going to chat for a little bit. So I’m not great at that. However, you know, if somebody engages me with a bigger issue that I know is going to take time, I will always say, hey, look, let me give you my cell phone number, call me tomorrow morning. Why don’t I send you a text and we can connect and have coffee or lunch or breakfast? Something like that. Now, if it’s something that’s super urgent, I’ll go back to the table and say, hey, look, this person really needs to talk that maybe might have happened twice in the last five years. Yeah. But they were pretty important issues. And, you know, people are really I think we we, we always think that people aren’t going to be as respectful as they are. I think people understand sometimes. And we don’t think they do. And so if you say to them, man, I want to be fully engaged in this conversation. Because that’s what you’re telling them when you say, we can’t work through this whole thing right now. But let’s do it tomorrow, or the next day or something like that. They want your full attention. And so we just got to remember that they’re asking us because one they know we can help. And two, they want your attention. And three, they think that you’re going to help them with possible solutions. So why wouldn’t they want you to be engaged? So you know, I’m always glad handing and you know, kissing babies. It’s almost like being a politician, right? Like, you know, I’m always doing that. But at the same time, if it’s really urgent, we’ll take the time and then if it’s not, let’s let’s catch up. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 29:27
I think that’s that’s good advice. And I think it all plays back into the chamber churn. I mean, if you’re constantly being stretched in all these different ways, and your family’s not getting what they need out of you, you’re not getting the rest, that you need to be able to be rejuvenated and to give your best self. It’s all going to lead to burnout and the you know, looking for that escape hatch to be able to get out and move on. So I think these are important things to consider. And as we begin to wrap up, I wanted to ask if there’s any A tip or action item that you might share for a chamber who is really interested in taking their organization up to the next level? What would you suggest for them?

Mike Throne 30:08
Yeah, you know, I think it’s, it’s the same. I always tell people, like, don’t be afraid of nothing that you don’t know something. And always be learning. You know, I learned from your podcast from listening to other people, I’ve learned a ton by going to our state conferences, I go to, you know, if you can’t afford to go to ACC, I really do. You know, encourage people to go to that conference as well find ways to connect with your fellow chamber executives, or let your staffs network with their their similar positions near you. Because that is less intensive, it might just cost a lunch or coffee or breakfast or something like that. But I mean, I have learned so much from the folks that I just picked up the phone and said, hey, you know, I’m new to this job, or I’m new to this problem. But I hear that you’ve gone through it, or that you can be helpful. You know, and since I’ve, you know, again, jokingly, we said that I’m now a veteran, but like I’m getting those calls now. And you know, when you when you look at those, those folks calling, you can’t see it as an annoyance. Again, if it’s a boundary issue, then I think it’s really important to say, I can’t give this the attention that it needs to have today. So let’s catch up tomorrow or at our first opportunity to do so. But reach out to those that are maybe they’re brand new, like you and say, let’s tackle this together. Or, you know, there’s strength in numbers. That’s the number. That’s the number one thing I can tell people, I could not have done this, and achieved what I’ve achieved so far. If I just tried to do it all on my own, I would probably still be with my head down, making all my members mad. And, you know, and not not achieving anything. Although I don’t think the folks out in that. Office would let me do that for very long, I guess. But, you know, I just think it’s really important. You don’t know what you don’t know, that was advice that was given to me in my journalism career, probably 20 years ago. So don’t act like you don’t like you do know it, reach out and get the help that you need to start to whittle away at the the issues that you see in your community, and be a help.

Brandon Burton 32:29
Yeah, I love that. I like asking everyone to have on the show, as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Mike Throne 32:41
Well, I’m excited about you know, I think we have changes and challenges that we’re going to have to meet right, but I’m excited that this business provides for us an opportunity to help every help people every day. And I think that’s not going to change. Now we’re gonna have to change with the things that are, you know, that are changing along with it, AI is going to be a huge challenge. You know, membership dues and the way they get they get computed and, and paid are a challenge. And so the purpose of chambers has always been to convene and connect. And that’s not going to change. But the way that we convene and connect, is probably going to have to change, one of the things that we have been doing quite a bit of in the last year is instead of blanket, throwing out an event to folks targeting the folks that we think need to be in the room. Because it used to be you could just throw a BA B and tell everybody to come, you could, you know, have a chamber educational session on any myriad of topics and 20 people would show up, and it was no problem. It’s less of that now, people are busier, they’re still dealing with the after effects of COVID, and workforce issues and childcare issues and transportation. And so you’ve really got to figure out should this you know, if you’re going to do an educational event, should it be hybrid or virtual or in person? How long should it be? If it’s going to be in person? How long should it be if it’s going to be zoom? And just have really smart conversations with your folks about what events look like in 2024 and beyond. Because we want to connect as many people as we can, and we want to convene as many people as we can. But we don’t want to bore people to death. And you know, my former profession did a bad job of that. We still did the same stories about the same things and didn’t change for a long time. We didn’t buy into electronics and we didn’t buy into technology. And by the time we decided to react all that stuff, it was far too late. We Can’t let the chamber profession do that. And it’s my hope that folks will start asking better and smarter questions about all aspects of what they do. Because it’s the best way for them to really, and and again, you know, you’re going to have to ask that of your members, don’t sit in an office with three people in a room and say, Hey, what do you think we should change, because we think we’re great. But other people might have great input to offer there. And so find ways to engage those folks in your membership that will help, you know, provide the best way to fulfill your purpose moving forward.

Brandon Burton 35:36
Right, I love that. And they, to your point about connecting and convening those in your community and your members. There was a book I read a while ago called you’re invited. And it’s all about the the art of extending the invitation. And so that blanket email to all the membership to really handpick and say if we’re going to do some kind of a summit on real estate, you know, let’s have all of our Realtors and our lenders and title companies and really handpick who’s coming if we’re going to do something on, you know, a certain aspect of employment, you know, let’s make sure we’ve got a restaurant sector and connect those people together so they can talk about what are the struggles that they’re seeing what’s working for them, and to realize that they can all be there to help and support and, you know, the the networking part, if we go to a networking event, and everyone’s there trying to sell us insurance, that doesn’t really do much for everybody else there. But if you can really connect and network those people that support each other’s businesses, that’s where the magic happens. Yeah, so absolutely. So Mike, I’d before I let you go, I wanted to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for listeners who might want to reach out and connect with you as a, as a mentor. Just learn about how you guys are doing things there at the chilla coffee Ross chamber.

Mike Throne 36:58
I appreciate it again. Thanks for the invitation. This was great. So yeah, we’re the Chillicothe Ross Chamber of Commerce in Chillicothe, Ohio, our website is ChillicotheOhio.com that’s C H I L L I C O T h e ohio.com. I know only five communities in the whole country have a Chillicothe, so you may not know how to spell it. My email is just my first initial and last name. It’s mthrone@chillicotheohio.com. I’m also on LinkedIn, on Facebook. The Chamber itself is on Facebook and LinkedIn. And you can reach out to any through our channels there as well. I also you mentioned the podcast earlier in the in the broadcast. But yeah, it ‘Feels Like Home’ has been we’re in our fourth season right now. It’s basically we just want to spotlight the great stories that are going on our community, people that have started businesses, people that are making an impact in the community through service or things like that. So you can find us on pretty much anywhere you get podcasts, Spotify, Apple podcasts, we use Buzzsprout as our feed. So you can find this on Buzzsprout as well. But we would love for folks to take a listen. When I went to the ACC conference a couple years ago, I was talking with someone from Texas, and they said, Hey, I heard you on a podcast. What what is it? And I said what it was? And they said, Oh my gosh, I listened to that podcast, and it blew me away. I felt like a quasi celebrity for a little while. So that’s right. Listen, please give us a review and send us an email. We’d love to hear from you. Absolutely.

Brandon Burton 38:48
So that’s awesome. We will get all that in our show notes for this episode. And I’m a huge fan of chambers doing podcasts. I think it’s a great way to storytel Tell the story of your community interview those businesses as influencers in your community. And for those who haven’t seen it, I do have a chamber podcasting guide. It’s a free resource for you to learn how to get a podcast started. It’ll be linked in the show notes as well. But feel free to check that out.

Mike Throne 39:17
I did a session at CCO a couple years ago on podcasting and I used your your podcast as an example and pointed folks to your guide. So awesome. Thank you. I learned a lot from that guide. So I appreciate you. Awesome,

Brandon Burton 39:30
appreciate that. But Mike, this has been fun having you on chamber chat podcast with us today. I appreciate you coming on and being candid with the experiences that you’ve seen and and these lessons you’ve learned to find that balance in your life and to be able to find that that meaningful rest. I really appreciate you.

Mike Throne 39:48
Thank you Brandon.

Brandon Burton 39:51
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Improving Corporate Sponsorships with Bruce Rosenthal

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your hosts Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

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Our guests for this episode is Bruce Rosenthal. Bruce is a corporate partnerships strategist, consultant, and educator. He specializes in associations and not for profit organizations, Bruce is dedicated to boosting revenue enhancing member value and promoting organizational sustainability. The Bruce, I’m excited to have you with us today here on chamber chat podcast that bio as concise as it is, I’m hoping pique the interest of everybody listening, that how we can bring more revenue into our chambers, but wanted to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the chamber champions that are listening and to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to

Bruce Rosenthal 1:53
know you a little better. All right, thank you, Brandon, and excited about being here. So So an interesting fact that I’ve worked throughout my career for nonprofit organizations. Though, when I was when I was growing up, my dad and his brother had an insurance agency. And when I was in college, I was here in the Washington DC area. And they were in the Chicago area and, and my uncle was a senior partner in the firm invited me over and said, Bruce, we have an idea, all the kids are going to go into the insurance business. And I was here as a sophomore in college and all the political buzz and everything in DC and I still to this day, hope I wasn’t too rude to him by saying I’m here on spring break. But I’m going back to DC and I don’t think I’m going into the insurance business. So sorry to all of you who are thriving based on doing great things for businesses in your communities. I didn’t go into business, I went into the not for profit. But for the conversation today how we can take what I’ve learned over the years to help your your chambers grow. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 2:53
it’s always fun when somebody has a great idea for you. And here’s your path for you. Right. Right. Right. Great. Well, tell us a little bit about your company Rosen Bruce Rosenthal associates with the work that you do kind of we know nonprofits and associations, but kind of in a nutshell, what do you do these give

Bruce Rosenthal 3:15
you the brief history, it does go back about 15 years, but it’s not that long a story. I was working for National Association on not a sponsorship project. But the association completely revamped its sponsorship program because I realized the times were changing and needed to keep up with the trends and the revenue was really important. It was about 15 18% of the revenue the association was bringing in. So they did that complete revamp one of the components of the new sponsorship program was the senior level staff person to run the program. So the CEO asked me to be that person, I said, Be glad to run the sponsorship program. Got all signed up and got my desk set up. That was 2009 2010 just as the economy tanked. So we had some companies that were that were top level sponsors and a new program pricey a sponsorship program around and I knew there were some companies where we’re gonna get it going to get no new business from our members in the next couple of years because of the economy. So in hindsight, the good news is that kind of set me on the path, what are the real value propositions? What are companies really looking for? Why do they sponsor and the good news is we were able to keep all of the companies in the fold as the economy, the economy slumped, and then came back. And what we realized as part of that process is the companies were really interested less than less than that transactional, or as the CEO said to me at that time, when we want to move their program from the transactional to the transformational, and kind of the standard gold, silver, bronze logo, visibility, recognition, shout out from the podium. In fact, there was one company at that time when I was asking him for their their logo for our newsletter, and he said, Bruce, we’ve been a sponsor for 20 years. Everybody knows who we are. We don’t need our logo on your newsletter, and we definitely don’t need their logo next to five other sponsors. is in your newsletter. So, so we created a program that was that we’ll talk about today, there was much more what I call it marketing agency approach to really sitting down with companies. What do you need? How can we be helpful? Our association has audiences, we have communications channels, we have education opportunities, how can we truly partner with your company to be part of that process?

Brandon Burton 5:22
I like that, yeah, this is going to this is going to be one of those episodes where people are going to want to go back and listen to again, or take notes and present their board and say, here’s a new strategy of how we might want to approach sponsorships going forward. Right. So actually,

Bruce Rosenthal 5:39
just to put a cap on that, Brandon. So when I left that association, about seven years ago, I took what I had learned and in those six years building and revamping the program and and now is you net noted in the bio working as an advisor, an educator to Association on how I can take what I learned in that kind of deep dive with one association and now with seven years of experience with a whole range of organizations, different sizes, inside staff, on how there are opportunities for all of them to grow sponsorship revenue. Right.

Brandon Burton 6:10
So our topic for discussion today is you might have guessed it, it’s around improving corporate sponsorships. Bruce and I were talking before we hit record, were just a little bit about the uniqueness of chambers of commerce and, and we’ve all heard the line if you’ve seen one chamber, you’ve seen one chamber but I think one thing that is common amongst all chambers is that chambers rely on sponsorships to help fund their organization and their mission and envision to move things forward in their community. So it’s gonna be a lot of value in this discussion today. And I’m excited to dive into it much deeper as soon as we get back from this quick break.

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All right, Bruce, we’re back. So we’re diving into corporate sponsorships today and for chambers in particular to improve these opportunities for sponsorships. So what are some of these lessons, I guess that you’ve learned through your own experience, but also working with organizations on their sponsorship programs? I’m sure there’s been some things that have lights that have gone off in your own mind. Some notes that you’ve taken and experiences that are valuable to share.

Bruce Rosenthal 9:17
You know, the first thing so So back when I was working with that association, the economy tanked. I wasn’t sure if we were gonna keep these companies in the fold. So I brought in a consultant, I said, Could you interview our top 10 year long corporate partners, and all of the things we talked about today can be scaled. So some organizations might have two sponsors, some might have 10 or 15. So everything I say I might throw out some numbers, but that everything can be easily scaled up or down. So I brought in a consultant and she interviewed the top 10 corporate partners, and she came in to do this presentation and I was sitting next to our CEO and and some other senior staff folks. And she said the good news is all of your corporate partners said exactly the same thing. And I’m thinking that is great. You She said, however, what they are looking for is not what you’re offering. So I have interviewed along with my team, hundreds of companies over the last 15 years, and whether they are sponsors of small organizations, large organizations, whether they sell, technology, insurance, marketing, whether it’s a bank, whatever it is, they all pretty much have the same three reasons that they sponsor organizations. And those three reasons are, of course, they want new business. But that’s not the only reason. The second is they want some sort of brand elbow room. So not necessarily exclusivity, they don’t necessarily need to be the only sure insurance company that’s sponsoring or the only marketing agency that’s sponsoring the chamber. But they want some sort of recognition that among all of the the insurance companies of all the insurance companies that might be involved with the chamber, there’s something different or special about that one, that’s a sponsor. And the third one, which is really key is they want to be positioned as a knowledge leader. So they want to be known for their expertise. So going back to the comment I made earlier, there was a company that came two years ago and said, We don’t need a logo placement. Everybody knows who we are. It was a bank. And it was one of six banks, who was a sponsor of the organization. What made that one bank different? And it wasn’t just around the money, it was, how could they help members more how, what are some case studies of how they help members finance a new building, for example. So those three, those three value propositions are closely related. Because if we can actually start with Thought Leadership, and help organization help sponsors be on an education panel, or a podcast or webinar panel, or, or develop an article or white paper for Chamber members, if that company can be positioned as a thought leader, that checks off the box, the brand visibility, because they’re being known for something, and that will eventually lead to business development. And because that will differentiate them as having expertise doesn’t mean everybody’s going to buy from them. But as I’ve talked to companies, and ask them how they measure success, and how this plays out, they’ll say, Oh, so many people went to this webinar, we followed up with that, we were able to schedule 10 meetings, and that led to three contract proposals. And that led to one signed contract, that one contract paid the cost of the sponsorship, that was our win. So companies have three those three reasons. Among those reasons, I did not mention logo visibility, recreation, or a shout out from the podium. So I think the two challenges and what many of us in the association and chamber nonprofit world have done for years as we’ve gone out to companies with a kind of a prospectus of gold, silver bronze sponsorships for our conference. And we’ve said two things, we need money. Well, spoiler alert, that companies in many cases don’t care that we need money, because that’s not one of their main drivers. And we’ll talk about one exception to that later. But for the most part, they don’t need money. And we’re trying to sell them. Visibility recognition is shut off from the podium, and most of them don’t need that. And I would think, especially within the chamber area, whether it’s a small town is bigger city, probably these companies are fairly well known and don’t need another logo placement. So we’ve been trying to sell them something. And this has been for decades, or a bigger exhibit booth. The other challenge with what we’re trying to sell them as we’re usually selling them, or in many cases, we’re selling them a conference sponsorship. And there was a company I was interviewing, interviewing a couple years ago. And they said, Well, you know, the reality is Bruce is a fantastic conference three days, we get a lot of leads, a lot of folks come by our booth, we get a lot of business cards, it’s three days, our company markets 365 days a year, right? So even with a little pre and post conference visibility, how can we work with the association throughout the year doesn’t mean every day. But Can there be something like a podcast in the first quarter and a webinar on the second quarter and an article in the third quarter and the conference in the fourth quarter? Because as we all know, kind of the the the marketing maxim is that people need to see a message seven times before it resonates. So we need to help companies get visibility as thought leaders throughout the year and that’s when the companies began to really see the

Brandon Burton 14:31
value. And I liked the point about being a thought leader and correlating that to the logo on the newsletter. The logo on the newsletter almost cheapens the experience of being a thought leader. Because if you’re coming to the table as being that thought leader, the assumption is everybody knows who your company is, anyway, that’s why they’re asking you for your expertise on whatever the topic may be. And just throwing a logo on a newsletter without any context around it doesn’t really it I don’t know, I think I think it cheapens the experience a little bit.

Bruce Rosenthal 15:03
Right. But I and and I think right, and the key there is use it in context. So yes, sure. After you’ve done the webinar and the podcast and all of that, then to say, oh, and the logo. Oh, yeah, that would be a good add on. So it’s a great add on in context. But yeah, if most of the benefits are logo visibility, recognition, that’s when companies are like, we don’t need that. And the other challenge now it’s it’s a very competitive environment out there. And there was a corporate sponsor that I was talking to, recently for an association client. And and they said, actually, you know, I think in that case was like a $30,000. Sponsorship, they said, we get more business leads from $3,000 of Google ads, that from a $30,000 sponsorship. Yeah. So the game changer in the last few years, especially with the pandemic, people can sit in front of a zoom screen and get a message anytime they can. People see Google ads. So So that’s part of the competition. And I think often we’ve not thought about this as competition, we thought, well, we’re the only chamber in town or we’re the only whatever Association around, companies really want to come to us. And to some extent, that used to be true when I was working at that association, 10 years ago, and a company would come to us and said, well, we want to be positioned as knowing about, you know, how to finance buildings, or how to create websites, or whatever. And I’d say, Well, here’s the list of all the things you need to do. We have a webinar series, we can get you on the calendar in six months. And we have a conference, if you submit this five page proposal, maybe we can get you on the program. And now that post pandemic lockdown, we all know how to sit in front of a zoom screen and sign up for a webinar and check that little box on the webinar sign up that says you can use our name to contact us afterwards. All of a sudden companies are like, well, we’d like to affiliate with your chamber, we’d like to be part of your program. But if you’re going to make it too difficult, we as a company can go out there and put out our webinar in the next six weeks. And then we can you know, have access to the registration list and all that. So when companies are making choices than doing it on their own versus going through the chamber, that’s we need to think about what is the value proposition that we’re offering to those companies? Right?

Brandon Burton 17:24
So on the topic of competition, are there other areas of competition? You mentioned Google and the technology side, Google and Facebook, and where you can purchase ads for a fraction of what it might cost to sponsor a major competition?

Bruce Rosenthal 17:40
Competition? That is a great question, Brandon. And when I started a consulting seven years ago, and I would do competitive in that analysis for Association and organization clients, and you know, I would come up with a list of your five, six other associations that are kind of in the similar space to you. And now I’m coming up a list 40 5060 organizations, and because I’m looking at it from the company standpoint, and what I saw, and some of this comes about when I interviewed corporate partners, and I’ll say, where else are you exhibiting? Where else are you sponsoring? Where else are you advertising? So I’m hearing that not only similar organizations, and then also organizations in other trades and professions? So again, kind of back to the example of the insurance agent who might be interested in sponsoring the chamber. Are there other places in time zero retail association in the town or the state where that company might be interested in sponsoring, so all of a sudden now the retail Association is a competitor to the chamber? Or is there a Healthcare Association where the company could say, well, we wouldn’t have access to all these prospective buyers of our insurance product if we sponsored the Health Care Association or the hospital association. So there are those associations. There are an increasing number of for profit, especially on the state and national level for profit entities that are putting out webinars doing expos doing podcasts. And some companies are going that direction and reaching out to those entities. And I think among the biggest competitors, kind of the example I mentioned earlier, companies just doing their own webinars, yeah, within their own and that, you know, they used to be called kind of, you know, user group meetings and they were very techie and but now companies are realizing something that I learned from a an association Education Director a few years ago, the idea of educating the sell, not selling to educate so if companies either through the chamber or on their own can educate members with the idea that then they will gain some sales leads, that tends to be more successful than going out there and saying, Oh, we’re gonna go out there and get x number of sales leads. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 19:54
and I think this hits on an important point because there’s a The money for these things for sponsorships versus advertising could come from very different budgets. But when you look at a company like I’m thinking an example of a hospital, a hospital may be a major sponsor for a chamber for their annual banquet or just overall with their, you know, the highest tier membership program, but their your, your top sponsor, talk to your sponsor, but they could also use that several $1,000 and do a health fair in the parking lot of their hospital and it’s their own thing, and they draw their own crowd in. So being able to differentiate what’s your value proposition as a chamber? What sets us apart? Why do you want to associate with us as a chamber? What making it clear what the mission is of your chamber, the advocacy efforts that you’re involved with all the different benefits? Beyond, you know, you get your logo here, or we have this networking mixer in this, like, really, you got to set yourself apart? Because those dollars are competitive on where they’re going?

Bruce Rosenthal 21:05
Yep, absolutely. It’s, it’s, and I think that’s a good way to frame it, Brandon, that’s to start off by saying, yeah, there’s nothing wrong with our chamber. But let’s think of our chamber is not, not sole source, not the only game in town, there is competition. And let’s just embrace that, and have conversations with companies. And I found a great starting point and a great differentiator, instead of as we’ve done for many decades, and you know, chambers are special and unique and in a variety of ways. From the company standpoint, it’s just another organization asking for money. So, again, no disrespect to chambers, but from the when I talked to companies, and they say, we get 612 15 Different prospectuses to sponsor conferences, every mods, and they put them all in the same category. And unfortunately, sometimes that category is, is the Delete box or the wastebasket, because it just they all begin to look the same. And so many of them start off with, we need money, our members will be eternally grateful, because in London, right, our registration fees, and again, companies, it’s like, well, how does that help my company? So I think one great strategy, as organizations chambers, think about revamping your sponsorship program, schedule a meeting with a few of the companies that have been sponsors in the past, or who are bigger exhibitors that your conferences and events and have a conversation with them and not to sell anything. And I found by scheduling those calls with companies and starting off by saying, I have no prospectus here. I’m not selling anything today, I want to talk about your company. And all of a sudden, and I do a lot of these on Zoom, but all of a sudden, they become available. Yeah, cell phones go down, the pins go down. It’s like, read Bruce, that’s, let’s talk about that. And just ask questions. You know, what are your company’s business goals? What are your marketing goals, and to try to focus it not on tactics. So if the company were to say, as some will, oh, our tactic, we want an email list of all the Chamber members? Well, that’s a tactic. That’s nice. Let’s put that to the side for a minute. Tell us about your company’s goals. Because what we want to do is position and this can work whether the chamber has one staff person, or dozens of staff, people or anywhere in between, to help the company solve those problems. Because if we can come in as a problem solver, and not just someone else asking for money that we grew that month, that becomes a differentiator. So I’ve had companies, including companies that sponsor nationally and internationally say, we have been sponsoring, you know, we sponsor 50 Different organizations every year, nobody’s ever asked us what our business goals are. And in some cases, these are companies that are $100,000 sponsors, and that’s when you begin to think, are they going to continue being a sponsor, because, again, the competition, the other competition, that kind of ties in with social media is that companies can create their own lists now. So one of my colleagues was talking to a company and, again, we’ll scale this up to the national level, the company had a online community of 10,000 members of that association, that they had just nurtured over the last six, mostly since COVID, over the last couple years, by putting information on LinkedIn downloads of white papers, webinar attendees, and the company said, Well, now that we think about it kind of begs the question, do I need to be a sponsor of the association? Because I already have a list of 10,000 professionals in that space. So I think, again, I think that can be scaled down to the local level and chamber level also, companies can create their own lists, and they can reach me they can reach and teach through social media and zoom without the chamber being involved. Oh, no, I think it’s also important to add to that, that the big one of those those key value propositions that associate the Chamber’s have to offer is the brand affinity. So while those companies can go off out and do their own webinars and offer their white papers to do that, to co brand that to do it in conjunction with the chamber, I think is a huge plus and a great reason that companies would want to affiliate. Right.

Brandon Burton 25:28
And I think that goes right along with asking the right questions. So when you’re talking to these corporate sponsors, or potential past sponsors, or potential sponsors to be able to ask the right questions, see what their motives are See, those top three reasons of why businesses sponsor, where do they fall? And then what aligns best with their needs. Now, I’m curious, as far as a, for lack of a better term, a sponsorship package? Do you go in with a package? Or do you assess the needs and then create a sponsorship opportunity to fit the needs? Or what? What type of approach should chambers considers they have these conversations? And just how do they start the conversation at some of these businesses? Yeah, great, great

Bruce Rosenthal 26:17
question on what to offer. So I don’t do packages we. So I often start and chamber can do this on their own with their their staff, or they’re more thinking about what do we have to offer? What are the different communications channels? Do we have newsletters, conferences, podcasts? who are who are our audience? What who is our audience? And also can that audience be segmented? So if it’s a company that wants to reach folks based on a certain type of business, do they want to be retailers? Do they want to reach construction firms or whatever it is, because what I also find that in many cases, companies, and this is also an interesting model to think about on the national level. And Association says we have 20,000 members, you can reach 20,000, folks, we have 10,000, folks that come to our conference, and then I’ll talk to a company and they’ll say, Well, based on what we’re selling, we really want to reach 300 people, how do we find those 300 Out of the 10,000 at the conference with a 20,000? Membership. So this is a great example, I think it’s for chamber, smaller chambers, when you can segment the membership to reach the folks that each company wants to reach. But I usually start by thinking what are all the things that we could offer. And then to have that exploratory call with a company or two. And again, this is where it can easily be scaled. If you have a small staff reach out to one or two companies among if you have a larger staff, it’s like, well, let’s talk to a couple of companies a week, and to have these exploratory calls. And then kind of to go back to the office and sit down and say okay, so based on what the company said their goals and objectives are, what do we have to offer the word fulfill those goals. And that’s a very different approach than usual. Here’s a standard gold, silver bronze, because again, I’m talking to more and more companies that say as soon as they see gold, silver, bronze, delete, yeah, because it means everybody’s getting the same thing. So this model, which I think a lot of businesses should be able to appreciate, is much is very much what I call a marketing agency model. Because if any of us goes to a marketing agency, either the chamber or one of your members goes to a marketing agency, and says I need help marketing agencies don’t have gold silver bronze packages. And from a couple experiences I had with a marketing agency, the marketing agency asked me questions for an hour similar to these exploratory calls we were talking about a few minutes ago about what is your product? What is your service? Who is your competition? What are you trying to accomplish? Who do you sell to? Do you want to reach a segment of the market? And then at the end of that conversation with a marketing agency, I said, what can you do for us? And they said, we will schedule a meeting for you next week, because we’re going to take all this information, and we’re going to think about it. And we’re going to come back to you with a series of solutions, services, or what we would call in the chamber space benefits. What can you offer and it’s going to be different for every company that does they can complicate it. In a way when I talked to associations that implement that model, they actually find it easier than having 20 companies that all they everybody gets a logo placement and everybody get this there. It becomes very assembly line ish, which is a lot of moving pieces. And kind of back to your comment earlier. Brandon is logo placement even worth it? Maybe not. So sometimes you come up with here are two or three big things we could do with the company during the year as part of the customized year long. So there’s kind of the two key things companies are looking for customized in many cases year long. And if we can come back to them with solutions, that’s when we see sponsorship fees, that in some cases are 510 times more than what they paid in the past because also sometimes in the past I see paid for a lot of pieces. So I think also if one, were going to talk to a company, as a company been an exhibitor and an advertiser and bought an ad and our gala program, what are all the things they spend money on, and realize that well, that’s kind of the minimum of what they would pay. And if they actually came in with a solution to their challenges, we can probably charge a lot more.

Brandon Burton 30:20
So when I think of a chamber making this approach, and this is going to come to the responsibilities, I guess, with the staff members or board members who might be involved, but so over the last, we’ll say, I don’t know, six or eight years, there’s been a big trend for chambers to go to a tiered dues membership model. So you’ve got your basic membership that gives you access to certain things, you get the next tier and you get other benefits, and it keeps going up see gold, silver, bronze, yeah, like you’re talking about. And these chambers typically will have a membership director that’s there. They’re doing a membership sales are attracting new businesses. And I know there’s other chambers that take an approach specifically for sponsorships where they’ll do what they call a one ask. So once a year, they’ll go out to some of the bigger players in the community. And typically, it’s the chamber CEO or Executive Director that will go and meet with these, these larger companies and potential donors and have that one on one conversation and say, here’s everything that we have to offer. In our case, I’m not really sure how to ask this question, because I’m thinking there’s just such a variety of how chambers approached us and come to it. What’s the least messiest way to way to approach membership and sponsorships? In at the same time, or should it be separate? Or is there a way to do it together?

Bruce Rosenthal 31:59
Well, there are probably ways to do it together. And each chamber does their members the best. And if it’s a company that kind of makes it as a joint decision, but a couple thoughts come to mind. One is that I also often find with the big year law, corporate partners, useful to find out when they make that decision each year. Yeah. So whether it’s 10,000, or 110,000, or a half a million, that I’ve had experiences of going to companies and saying, oh, based on our organization’s fiscal year, here’s where we want to talk to you. And the company says, Well, I wish we had talked two months ago, because we set our budget two months ago for the coming year. Let’s talk next year. So if it’s going to be a bigger sponsorship discussion, I think useful to find out months or even what the company’s fiscal year is, when do they actually put pencil to paper and start? We’re working on the budget.

And I think the there was another thought I had as part of that, which I don’t recall right now. So it will come back to me. So

Brandon Burton 32:55
maybe it had to do with the membership side of it with aside from the sponsorship?

Bruce Rosenthal 33:01
Yeah, I think, again, it depends on each organization and how you’re approaching that. But I think it’s again, asking companies the question about what what are their? Well, I think you also mentioned kind of going in with with either packages I go in with with no paper, I can tell them nothing about the benefits, even if they start to say what is the circulation of the magazine? How many people attend the conference? It’s like, well, let’s talk about your business goals. And we will get back to you. Because I think once we start going down that rabbit hole of talking about for tactical things, we lose the discussion. I think the other conversation that can be a little different for her chambers is there is kind of this other pot of money, which which some companies have the chambers have been asked accessing. And that’s one of the corporate social responsibilities. So that’s hospitals, for example, that are supporting the chamber, not because they think they’ll get more patients or doctors to come to the hospital, because they believe it’s the right thing to do for the community. And so I think, you know, when you’re reaching out to companies and asking questions, like What is your decision making budget here? But also asking him Do you have a separate department that’s in charge of corporate social responsibility, because all of us are going on to those marketing folks. And whether it’s with that insurance brokerage agency or, or with the hospital, and we’re all going to the marketing folks ask them for money from from their small pot at the same time. And the opportunity with this what’s often called Corporate Social Responsibility, money that hospitals in some larger businesses have retail stores and others is that it’s everybody’s not asking for that money at the same time. So it’s a little easier to being lost in the shuffle there. And it’s a somewhat different criteria. The marketing folks are back to thinking what is the ROI am I going to get X number of new contracts or X number of new customers? If I support the chamber in this way At, or the hospital is like, well, we’ve seen the Chamber’s impact statement. You guys are doing great stuff. We want to support you. So I think it’s different conversations but similar, because I think there is always an advantage in having these exploratory calls, and showing empathy and interests. And wow, tell me more about those goals, whether they be sales goals or intellectual responsibility. Tell me about your goals, what’s working, what’s not working? What are the barriers? And that’s what I just find that I’ve had companies, I’m shocked, I’d never heard of this in the sales. And because we’re still basically kind of selling sponsorships, where companies will say, at the end of the call, wow, this was a great call, can we schedule another call, we didn’t get to cover it all in a half hour. And then I talked to kind of folks that are have expertise in sales, and they’re like, schedule 15 minute sales calls, you should be able to get it all done in 15 minutes. So I think when we bring companies in, and this is where we kind of shift from, I have a slide in some of my PowerPoints is that the word partner is a noun and a verb. And we often talk about corporate partners, oh, they’re our partner. But do we truly partner with them using partners as a verb, so when we can bring companies in. And we did talk about things since the beginning of this conversation about the revenue, which is definitely important, but there’s also a huge component around member value. So another way to kind of shift the way we’ve done things in the past, is to actually start with not even a conversation with companies. But what is the chamber need? What are our members need, and I have not found any association and the surveys back this up, including associations with 100 200, staff, people, nobody has enough staff time expertise or money to meet all of the members needs all the time. Right? So do Chamber members need to have new information on cybersecurity? Are women in leadership capacities, or D AI are? And then to go to companies and say, Well, you know, our members really need information about cybersecurity, could we partner with your company, to take some of your company’s expertise, not a sales pitch, and we don’t want to hear about your specific products, position, your company has that knowledge leader around cybersecurity, and do a series of webinars, podcasts, white papers, something as the conference during the year, and really position your company for success. So then you’re bringing in not only the revenue for the chamber, you’re bringing in information for members. So then you kind of tie that into membership recruitment, when you’re going out to recruit members, oh, we have this great year long education program around cybersecurity, because we heard this as what businesses in town really need, or whatever the topic is, but actually start with what do members need? Can we find companies with that expertise? And that’s where I find calling companies and not saying, Oh, our convention is coming up, or a conference or Expo is coming up? And in 60 days, do you want to gold, silver bronze sponsorship a calling and saying our members really did it for information on cybersecurity, I looked at your company’s website, I did some research, did some work on my end. So that your company as you know, some white papers and some videos about cybersecurity, can we talk? Those are the calls that get returned? And those are the meetings we can put together.

Brandon Burton 38:11
Right? I like that question. A lot of great points there. One I wanted to circle back with was on the corporate social responsibility. For chambers listening. I know there’s been buzz lately, about chambers having foundations, a lot of chambers have established foundations. And that’s where you can really tap into some of those buckets of social responsibility for these companies where it’s not coming out of marketing funds, it’s a totally different bucket. But having, especially if a foundation is something new and there is buzz in your community about the foundation and the work that it will support, it’ll be easier to open those doors to be able to have those conversations. And in the end, it’s all supporting the mission of the organization. So

Bruce Rosenthal 38:56
Right. That’s, and that’s that’s a good point, just to underscore that, that every relationship that we’re talking about with companies, whether it’s from their marketing, budget, sponsorship, or corporate social responsibility, should always kind of meet the two major criteria in alignment with the Chamber’s mission in meeting the needs of members. Right. And it doesn’t work all the time. If a company says, Wow, what we really want, we need an email list of all your members, and we want our logo front and center on the Chamber’s website for the next year. It’s like, sorry, that that’s not going to work. Yeah. Let’s talk about some other things or less. Or

Brandon Burton 39:31
here’s what it’ll cost to do that right. Well.

Bruce Rosenthal 39:35
Sometimes we get on a slippery slope if we compromise ourselves. So I think it’s also fine in some cases to say this doesn’t look like it’ll work right now. Maybe we can get together in another few months and talk again. Because it we definitely want to make sure and I think also because sometimes boards are a little skeptical. What about sponsors? Are we endorsing products? Are we aligning with the wrong companies? It’s like, No, we have a set of guidelines and you Here’s how we can work with companies. And I think also by having these exploratory calls with companies and then going back to the companies with ideas, yeah, we’re sure that they’re in alignment with our mission and our members needs. Because we’ve developed it. We as chamber leaders have developed that not going to the companies and saying, What do you want? Because then they start telling you what they want. And then we’re like, Oh, what do we do now? Because we can’t do that. So when we can go to companies, and I think we there are even ways I turned it around if a company does come and say, We want to list your members. And I try not to say no, but I’ll say, well, that’s interesting. Tell me about your objectives and goals around that. Not I mentioned, you want to list but why do you want to list and I’ve had a number of instances where where I’ve realized as part of the discussion, they really don’t want to listen to everybody that just kind of what they’re used to asking for. They want to reach a segment, or they want to be positioned for their expertise, some something and I’ll say, well, well, what if we help you do a webinar? And we’ll only introduce Chamber members who are whatever retailers are in the health space? How would that work for your company? And more than nine times out of 10? They’ll say, oh, yeah, that’s a great solution. And they’ll never ask about the mailing list again. Yeah. So if we can find when we can find out what a company’s goals and objectives are. And then find ways to work with in the context of the Chamber’s mission and member needs. So offer solutions. That’s the real though I always look for the win, win win. Members. First, it’s got to meet the needs of members, chambers, Max, if it provides more revenue for the chamber, and then when we can position, the company, the sponsor is the third when then that’s when it’s successful. Yeah.

Brandon Burton 41:40
Now, this has been some gold nuggets all over the place. So as we, as we start to wrap up here, Bruce, I wanted to ask for chambers listening who are interested in taking their organization to the next level, what kind of tip or action item might you leave with them and trying to accomplish that goal? I’d

Bruce Rosenthal 42:02
say that for action steps, the first would be have conversations with companies. And based on your size and capacity, it could be reaching out to one or two companies start with the ones who have been supportive, or have had the, you know, bought the most number of ads during the year, whatever it is, however, you know, money’s always a good metric, the companies that have spent the most with the chamber, and it could be in terms of membership, as well as sponsorship and advertisers. And, and schedule a time to talk with them. And you might even start by saying we’re not selling anything today. Oh, and by the way, what’s what’s your budget year, we want to have this conversation when you’re working on your next budget, and have that conversation. And yet I find it as a huge differentiator, because most organizations aren’t doing that. And and then to kind of regroup internally and go back to the company and say, Well, we have some ideas and hard thing is often how do you price it but you know, look at what the company spent in the past. And, and you can probably increase it a significant amount. So I’ve seen organizations kind of on the national level, again, it can be scaled down. But companies, companies that have gone from a $5,000 conference sponsorship to the next year, a $40,000 year long partnership, because it has achieved. And I looked at one of the questions I may not have mentioned in these conversations with companies, ask them how they measure success. And they may be able to tell you, they may not. But again, I think it shows interest in empathy, because I’ve worked with companies like banks, where they say, Wait, if we get one new financial stake, this is finance financing as a result of his partnership with the chamber. that’ll pay the whole annual fee right there. Yeah. And if it’s a smaller marketing agency, they’re gonna say, wow, we’re gonna design a whole bunch of websites for local businesses to be able to pay for this sponsorship. So understanding who they want to reach and how they measure success. And I think most companies would be glad to answer that question. How do you measure success? And success should be in terms of, again, kind of objectives and results in that? You know, success is now we want the email list. So we can mail up, you know, 3000 brochures to your members or 500 brochures, who remembers that’s a tactic but, but what is kind of a business ROI success, and I also find companies are measuring a lot more than they used to. Yeah. And then they’re tracking every lead from the first conversation, the first touch point, the first downloadable white paper through the months until there’s a sale. So companies to a greater extent, I think this was partly just because we’re more data focused and things became more a lot online during the pandemic. Companies are measuring so I showing interest in empathy and saying, how do you measure how can we you know, if we have this Congress, if you become a sponsor, we come back over the months to talk about a renewal. What will be an indication of success for you and how can we help you with that? Right.

Brandon Burton 44:56
I like that. I like that question. With Bruce I A final question I like asking everybody that I have on the show is, as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Bruce Rosenthal 45:10
I think for chambers and other nonprofit organizations, there’s a huge interest that companies have and companies are. Yeah, I think the opportunity for chambers that embrace a different sort of strategy for working with companies is has a lot of potential because I’ve talked to a lot of companies, and this is really over the last seven or eight years. So it’s not even specific to the pandemic, is that I’m talking to companies of all sizes, and they are saying, we are not cutting our sponsorship expenditures in the coming year. However, we’re cutting the number of organizations we sponsored by 30%. So again, that’s I don’t think there are too many companies that are going to be successful by cutting marketing budgets. So companies have a huge respect and want to support organizations and be aligned with the brand. So just one quick example, when I worked for an association, we had a year long corporate partner, they were sponsors of a major research study co branded with the Association. And what was interesting, the company did most of the research for that research study. And I looked at the different scenarios, and I thought, you know, they could decide to just publish that on their own. Yeah. Or they could co branded the reason they were like, and this is what will be at the scale it down to a smaller chamber level, but they were $160,000, sponsor of a national association. One of the key reasons they sponsored $460,000 was a co branding of that annual research study, which they did all the research they could have done around. So I think, you know, realizing that by having these engaging collaborative conversations with companies, bringing them in as partners is a huge differentiator, because companies value chambers, value, things like CO branding, being on panels, being invited as a thought leader, because I’ve talked to a lot of companies and associations I’ve worked with, and the company will say, you know, they call us a partner. But we’re a marketing agency. And I saw that the association did a webinar on marketing, and they never asked us to be on the panel. Yeah. Does it feel like a partner? Yeah. If I want to do that, I always said, Do you want our money? Or do you want our brains? Yeah. So kind of back to members need the information and the expertise. So again, if companies are going to be on that panel, they need to be coached, you’re not going to sell, you’re not going to put up your QR code. You can have that in the last slide or at the end or have a brochure if it’s in person to end at the end. But we want your expertise. Can you talk about marketing agency, how to design websites or how Chamber members can use LinkedIn or whatever without mentioning the name of your company that will be the educating to sell not selling to educate? So I think there’s huge potential because companies have sponsorship money to spend, but they’re going to spend it on fewer organizations where they

Brandon Burton 48:05
see value. Yeah, absolutely. But Bruce, I wanted to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for listeners who might want to reach out and connect or learn more about some of this that you shared today or just dive in deeper what would be the best way for them to reach out and connect with you?

Bruce Rosenthal 48:20
Great well name again is Bruce Rosenthal, and I’m on LinkedIn and post there pretty regularly a couple times a week with sponsorships success ideas, and my website is BruceRosenthal.associates. br uc EROSE, e n t h a l dot Associates, and there’s some white papers there some webinar recordings and then there’s a calendar with listing of upcoming webinars and speaking that I’ll be doing so a lot of resources for chambers.

Brandon Burton 48:51
Yeah, that’s great. We will get that in our show notes for this episode make it easy to find but, Bruce, this has been a blast having you on chamber tap podcast. I appreciate you setting aside some time and sharing some of your expertise and experience that you’ve learned throughout your career. As to corporate sponsorships. This has been a valuable episode and I appreciate your time.

Bruce Rosenthal 49:12
Right always planned to talk about sponsorship success.

Brandon Burton 49:16
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Co-Workspace Initiative with Moe Belliveau

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your hosts Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

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Our guest for this episode is Moe Belliveau. Moe has more than 22 years of experience in small business and entrepreneurial management experience including five years in retail management. Two years leading a privately owned nonprofit organization and nearly 20 years as a small business owner mode joined the chamber in 2014, bringing a unique set of skills in administration financial management, community relations, business development, grant program development and administration, economic development and collaboration with other organizations and municipalities. She embodies big picture thinking without losing sight of the details. She is currently the past president of the Massachusetts Association of Chamber of Commerce executives. After rising in the ranks of leadership. She has been a commissioner of the city of East Hampton economic development and industry commissioned since 2015, and advisor to the Hampshire County Regional tourism Advisory Council since 2014. And as served as a member of various boards across the region. She and her husband Mike live in East Hampton with their dog Pearl, and spend their free time working on the land and their farm stead, Hendricks Harvests. Moe, I’m excited to have you with us today. Here on Chamber Chat Podcast, I’d love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the Chamber Champions who are out there listening and to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better.

Moe Belliveau 2:41
Well, hello, Chamber Champions. I’m delighted to be here. Thank you for the invitation, Brandon. And something interesting about myself. I don’t know if this is interesting. But I am a fiddle player.

Brandon Burton 2:55
All right, fiddle player, you don’t run into fiddle player every day, you might you might run in those circles that don’t run in those circles that fiddle player. So yeah, that’s awesome. Yeah, very good. I should have mentioned as I went through your bio, that you are the Executive Director for the chamber, the Chamber of East Hampton in Massachusetts. So that should help give some context as well. Yes. But tell us a little bit about your chamber just to give us an idea of size, staff budget, scope of work, all those nitty gritty details so we can kind of get our mind shaped around what you present to us today. Sure.

Moe Belliveau 3:33
So we are the Chamber of Greater East Hampton, located in East Hampton, Massachusetts. I our membership hovers around 151 75 200 kind of bounces around. And our budget is about 175 180. there abouts. What else do we need to know we are an office. So we’re tiny, right? So it’s, it’s myself and a part time admin person. But I like to say we’re tiny but mighty.

Brandon Burton 4:07
I love it lean and mean tiny and? Yeah. That’s right. Yes. Yeah, no, oftentimes, it’s chambers, I have to run lean and mean like that, that often will lead to some of these innovative things that are of interest to be able to share here on the podcast. So

Moe Belliveau 4:26
I like how I like to think of myself as being agile, you know, we’re not yes, so big that it gives us flexibility to try a lot of things. You know, not everything always works out. But I’m happy to say most of the time it does and get to be we can turn on a dime if something’s not working out or doesn’t serve our membership or the community or whatever. So that’s the plus side of being tiny. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 4:50
being agile and that also goes to your board trusting you and being able to work well with the board. You get too big of chamber. I don’t wanna say too big but some of the have really large chambers where they might have 60 or more board members. And that becomes tough to make quick decisions or to pivot. Yeah. There’s value there, but it’s different for sure. Yeah. Yep, for sure. So for our topic of conversation today, and you guys have been behind an initiative of creating a co workspace, their communities. So I know this is something that some chambers here and there have kind of dabbled in. And I see it as a way of really building a sense of community, usually among other small business owners and people looking to get stuff done and looking to collaborate. So I’m excited to dive into this conversation as soon as I get back from this quick break.

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Alright, Moe, we’re back. So let’s dive into this. I want to hear all about this co working space that you guys have this initiative that your chamber is behind tell us where it got its origins, what it’s about who it serves, all of the good details, the

Moe Belliveau 7:50
nitty and the gritty. So we started talking about the work hub on Union, the CO workspace before COVID hit. Yeah, we own our building here in East Hampton, which is kind of unique also, I think amongst chambers. But in in this area anyway. And so we were tossing around, you know, this isn’t really the best use of this space, you know, it’s 1100 square feet, and it’s just myself and a part time person in that space. And essentially, it was two desks in a gigantic conference room, you know, not driving an awful lot of traffic. And we just wanted to have add more life and you know, serve a broader purpose. And so we were lucky, so COVID to, to kind of propelled us into this direction in the direction of economic development. So we’ve evolved our mission also around economic development, professional development and leadership, education, technical support, entrepreneurialism, all that sort of thing. And so this kind of falls underneath that umbrella. And we consider this to be a program under the Chamber’s umbrella. And we were kicking this idea around, and we were lucky enough to we applied for a massdevelopment grants a seed grant to help us with market feasibility and design feasibility. Once upon a lifetime ago, I used to be a corporate interior designer, space planner and project manager person. And I kind of figured that we could probably maybe fit maybe 10 people in that space, various situations. And as it turns out, we can fit up to 18. At any given moment, we have a conference room, and a little phone booth so that if you need to make a private phone call, you can do that. But we ended up so we had the seed grant, and that kind of got us started. It was the information that came back from the marketing feasibility study. He was yes, this is the program, this is the project that this chamber needs to be involved with, do it do not pass go run. So the board said, Okay, let’s take the next steps. And so we were also very fortunate enough to receive another grant from massdevelopment to help us get started along with some state funding, through an earmark through our legislative team. And that kind of got us on our way. So that’s kind of a little bit of a background. But you know, when people think of CO workspace in this area, I think maybe in particular, because that’s what we have around they’re very large. And I don’t compare us to that it’s we’re only 1100 square feet, it’s again, tiny bit mighty. And it also is, in conjunction with a an entrepreneurial program, which is, we just signed on to the I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of CO starters, but it’s a entrepreneurial program, nine weeks as a licensed program, we just purchased the license. So it says they’re going in, they’re working in conjunction with each other hand in hand in entrepreneurial support. Our focus with the CO workspace will for both programs really is those folks who are in the shadow economy, those folks who are working out of their basement at the kitchen tables, and trying to give them support so they can move from informal businesses to formal businesses. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 11:33
and I think there’s in every community, there’s a, there’s a lot that are shadow businesses, as he called them, they’re operating at home, or maybe don’t feel like like they’re doing some business or bringing in some revenue, but maybe they don’t see themselves as a, quote unquote, real business because they don’t have a staff or they don’t have a building, or they don’t have a meeting space, or any of these kinds of things that might hold them back from really excelling and growing to that next level. So being able to create a workspace like this, really, I can see where it pulls them out and helps them leverage what they already have with other other people other skills, but the chamber just really adds fuel to the fire. Yeah.

Moe Belliveau 12:15
And it’s, it’s exciting. So you know, it’s we’re really working on, you know, creating an innovative co working space where local professionals, they can converge foster collaboration to meet the needs of solopreneurs, freelancers, home based businesses and entrepreneurs and creating small businesses that think job growth while addressing downtown revitalization, because we’re also experiencing a piece of that going on on our street. So yeah, you mean it’s perfect,

Brandon Burton 12:48
right? So is, what’s the what’s the model look like with the coerce space? Is it? Do people pay a monthly fee to kind of use the space? Do they get it in a lot of desk? Like, what access do they have.

Moe Belliveau 13:03
So this is really exciting, because it also gives an opportunity for the chamber to offer opportunities for members as well as non member. So the membership, if that’s what you want to call it, I haven’t even really nail that down and when you want to call it out, but the membership structure is around. If you’re a member, it’s one you can have one pricing, if you’re a non member, you have another pricing, and we hope that you decide to become a member, but you don’t have to, you still have opportunity to participate and engage. And yeah, it will be more of a like a like a like a gym membership, sort of like you know, you get a key cat card, you can come and go. It will be like I think it’s I don’t know how to say this, but three days at a time. So you can be three days for 24 hours. So that’ll break it up. So that’s kind of how it’s looking so far. Okay. Yeah. And I think it’s a good opportunity to give a give a an insight look to what we’re up to what the chamber is thinking about how we’re planning for the future, because the chamber will also continue to operate out of that space. Yeah. So there will be chamber Access for All right. Yeah. So

Brandon Burton 14:28
and no, you had mentioned there’s that private phone booth in their effort of some chambers even doing like a podcast studio where they can rent that out and maybe model are there other other perks that you guys have to offer with the CO workspace or

Moe Belliveau 14:43
no, there will be there’ll be coffee, there’ll be snacks they’ll be you know, we’ll have photocopying that sort of thing. I hope I believe once I get this piece settle down, there will be a virtual office opportunity as well. So if you need an address or that sort of thing, you Yeah, we’re looking to figure that out. So lots of opportunity. Lots of opportunity. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 15:06
that virtual address I think could be a huge that could be kind of a game changer with the whole structure. So

Moe Belliveau 15:12
yeah, yeah, there’s a lot of things that I need a little details that I need to iron out at this point, because we’re looking at wrapping up construction probably within the next two weeks or so. And then furniture will be moving in. So it’s, it’s speeding up. Yeah.

Brandon Burton 15:29
So you had mentioned about the the entrepreneurial programming, the licensee has purchased. Talk to us a little bit more about that. And what the program is, he said, it’s a was a nine weeks, six weeks? Yeah, nine week program. So

Moe Belliveau 15:43
yeah, it’s the CO starters program. It’s a national program. There. I believe they’re based in Texas, I think, I think it’d based in Texas or Tennessee, I think it’s Texas. So um, and it’s a curriculum of over the course of nine weeks, which gives the participants which, which they’re called co starters, because we’re starting something together. Yeah. gives them the basics, you know, and it’s a progressive program. So, you know, so you’ve decided that you want to start a business? So what does that mean? What does that look like? Who is your customer? Who is what is your market? What is? Why is it important to have legal representation? Why do you want to talk to a payroll company, perhaps, you know, an accountant. So all of those little details, you know, cost of goods? And how do you figure that out? And what does that mean for you. And so it’s really very exciting. This is our very first cohort, and it’s moving right along, we have two more weeks left, and then we’ll have a big celebration in May to celebrate them, and they get to share with our guests what they’re up to, and what they plan on doing, and we get to celebrate them.

Brandon Burton 17:04
So I’m always curious, because for a chamber, it’s easy to focus, the businesses that are on Main Street Are those your new businesses that open their doors, and you’re welcome and do the ribbon cutting and the whole thing, but to find those entrepreneurs that really need the support that a chamber can offer, that are working out of their home that are working in the shadows, like he had mentioned before? How, what’s the secret sauce to to finding these shadow businesses, those people that could benefit from this CO starter program? And from this co working space? How do you find them? How do you attract them? What? What’s that look like? Well, that’s

Moe Belliveau 17:46
the challenge. And we have a marketing partner here. The daily handshake is that they’re going to be helping us work on that and helping to get us helping us to get the word out. But it’s a it’s an it’s a lot of excitement that’s being that’s organically arising from the community. Our board is excited and chatting about this and sharing why it’s important. Why is it important for those who, who may not even use the word cup? Right? Or, or who might not even use the customer’s program? Why is that important? Well, economic development in our city is very important in our region, it’s very important, right? It helps to stabilize a lot of things like, you know, food insecurity, you know, if you if you don’t have steady income, that, you know, a lot of things become unstable, you know, your family will family’s well being job security is also contributes with job, you know, providing jobs as these folks grow and continue to what’s the word I’m thinking of expands, but there’s another entrepreneurial word there. So the scale. So all of that’s important because of those things and the life that’s going to be driven that’s going to be participating in the light. I mean, in the work Hall, you know, it adds to the economy to the economy around us right now, utilizing services, restaurants, you know, there’s cleaners, there’s, you know, folks can just conveniently dropped in they come to work. And so all of that just ripples, ripples, ripples. And the most beautiful thing is, is that it’s not only for the here and now. It’s it’s ripples out for, you know, potentially decades. Right, right. I’m explode. It’s so incredibly excited about the CO starters program because we’ve also coalesced a team of we regional local resource. So supporters or resource team. So like the Small Business Association, the SBA, and other other local regional partners, and they’ve all come in support of that program and the work hub, so that we can be. So all everybody kind of does their own little bit of programming. And we’re not looking to recreate any of those wheels, what we want to do is try is to highlight into raise up, all of us together all of our resource partners. And so as they go through the post orders, the participants go through the program, they’re being introduced to these folks, they can put faces to names, you know, they can participate in these other programs. And then, at the end, when they’re done with all of these things, they’re not just standing there going now what? Right, because the now what team is ready for them? Yeah, who they are. And so

Brandon Burton 20:58
now what team have?

Moe Belliveau 21:02
Yes. So you know, now they know who they are. And maybe they connect and give a call to our friend, Roberto Nieves from common capital here in the area. And if, you know, maybe he doesn’t have the answer, or isn’t. They’re not ready for him at that moment. But he knows who they can connect them to. Because we have an ongoing monthly meeting and roundtable that we get together so that we can learn more about each other. That’s awesome. That’s support.

Brandon Burton 21:32
Yeah. So with this, you mentioned, you’re kind of wrapping up this first cohort. I’m curious if you don’t mind sharing, but how many business owners you have in this first round. And we have maybe some examples of where they came from how you found them. I’m just saying I get the the thoughts going with those listening of where they might be able to find some of these businesses that are operating in the shadows.

Moe Belliveau 22:00
Sure, sure. So we have six participants within our, our cohort, my goal was to have 10 We have two facilitators who are just incredible. I’m delighted to be working with both of them. And I’m a super excited for our participants, because they get to be led by these two incredible women. And and we put it out through social media, we had, you know, it was mostly social media that we put that out to, and we had, you know, quite a bit of, of applicants come in, but through that A, we ended up with six was very excited about that. And they vary, they vary. There’s a couple who have been in business for, you know, maybe a year or so. So they’ve started their venture, but realized, you know, what, I need a little bit of focus, I need a little bit more of a foundation, and then the others are in various stages we’re at in various stages of ideation. Okay, so at this point, they’ve become more clear and more more focused as to what it is that they’re trying to do and how they’re going to do it. Yeah.

Brandon Burton 23:15
So can you share with us a little bit about the facilitator aspect of it and where you find the facilitators? Do they need to go through certain training to be able to operate under the license? How does that work?

Moe Belliveau 23:27
Yep, so our facilitators, they’re both local. We have Cynthia West, who is a small business owner here. She is the owner of sonnet and Sparrow, right here in the center of East Hampton. And then we also have Angie Montalvo Greene, who is the regional director for the LGBT chamber here, who is also located there. Western Mass office is also located here in Massachusetts. So she’s on our team. And it’s amazing. So as part of the program, they are, they get a stipend for their time and their dedication. And it’s in they go through training. Yep, they’re trained by CO starters. They’re certified by CO starters. And it’s it’s the real deal. It’s, yeah, it’s not just Mo, like, oh, well, let’s just let’s, let’s build a business plan. I’m really excited about the program. It’s really amazing. I

Brandon Burton 24:29
love that that creates a team effort to in it’s not like you said, it’s not just mo reach into these businesses. This is so right. There’s curriculum, and it’s a it’s a real deal.

Moe Belliveau 24:41
Yeah. And it’s a method and it’s a logical progression, and it’s building and building and building. So that’s

Brandon Burton 24:47
right. Now, I will say at the beginning of this recording, you had mentioned the revitalization of downtown and I had a little vision that you know, maybe the chamber occupies one of those For bigger co workspace as he continued to grow and develop this thing, I could just see it snowball. So well, I

Moe Belliveau 25:06
have to say, and I’m very excited about this. But the woman who worked with us on the marketing feasibility study, she said, you know, my biggest fear for you is that you’re going to fill up so fast that you’re going to wish you had more space. Yeah. I said, Well, that’s a problem I’ll deal with when I get there. Yeah. cross

Brandon Burton 25:25
that bridge. Yeah, we’ll see. Yeah, yeah. Well, I would like to ask for chambers listening, who are interested in taking their chamber up to the next level, what kind of tip or action item might you share with them and trying to accomplish that goal?

Moe Belliveau 25:43
Oh, dear, well, you know, ah, these times in chamber, we have, I think, really worked hard. to, to, you know, what, let me back up a minute, you know, we’re living in a time, right, where they change, constant change, we had a major disruption in 2020. And, and ever since then, change has been in our face, and it’s not going to stop, it’s just going to keep on going and keep on accelerating. And chambers all over the country really rose to the occasion, and really stepped into a void, I think, which was really pretty amazing. But I also think as we move on, and move further away from 2020. Being open, and and moving forward with curiosity, and learning, where it’s just going to be constant. Learn, do learn do as opposed to once upon a time you could learn, do the thing, and then you retire. Right? But now it’s going to be now I, in my opinion, learn do learn, do learn do, and if we don’t keep doing that, so you know, learning from our, our, our membership, you know, what is it that they need, be willing to change and let go of what maybe it’s not working and take a risk to see what might right now like, this is all scary stuff. I’m like, Oh, I’ve never done this. Yeah.

Brandon Burton 27:20
Well, and the halls learn, do learn do for a chamber? Yes. So you’re going to learn, do learn, do. But also keep in mind that your members are doing the same thing, like that environment is constantly changing. And we’re in a world where the education the learning is I like to think of it as just in time learning. Yeah, you need to learn how to do a podcast, because that’s the thing. Now there’s courses, there’s ways to do that right now. Yeah, if you need to learn how to do XYZ, there’s YouTube videos, there’s trainings, there’s people, you know, mentors that you can learn from, there’s all these different resources where it used to be the hand to go and get the formal education, you learn, you do and you retire, like, like you said, now it’s learn, do learn do, and you need to constantly be able to find those resources. And hopefully, the chamber is one of those resources to keep these business members up to date on latest trends and to help them learn on demand when they need that, I

Moe Belliveau 28:19
think to being a role model, right? Leading by example. Yeah. Yeah, model it. Right.

Brandon Burton 28:28
So and that that may be leaning into the next question I have is, as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Moe Belliveau 28:39
Oh, my goodness. What do I yay, how do I see that? I think it just goes back to the learned, learn, do and we need to be aware, and listen and hear. And if we can do that, I think we can’t be afraid of changing. Yeah. And I like to say that, you know, the East Hampton chamber is not your grandmother’s grandfather’s chamber anymore. You know, and I think, once upon it, you know, how we have been in the past served those times well, but I also think, too, that we get to a point that it’s, it’s can be nerve wracking to let go right. And

Brandon Burton 29:24
things didn’t move as fast. You know, years ago, 60 years ago, things did not move as fast. Now, today, when you mentioned the further we get away from 2020. I mean, here we are for over four years from when the pandemic started, and it’s starting to become a memory and now what we are in the throes of right now, but I think, you know, my son, my oldest son was he was ending I guess he was in his last year in middle school, getting ready to start high school when the pandemic started and now he’s graduating. And so like there’s, there’s time that’s passed. And we’ve learned a lot through the pandemic, after the pandemic, and just that changes constantly there. So we can’t be our grandmother, grandfather’s chamber, because we need to stay current and stay up to see that the times. Yeah.

Moe Belliveau 30:19
And there’s going to be, you know, there’s going to be disruption. Again. Yeah, you just don’t know when and so I think, you know, yeah, I think that, you know, and it’s just going to accelerate, you know, I’m also discovering, too, as I move along, you know, not only is the change, you know, accelerating, it’s the rules that were attached to what was right are changing as fast as the change is happening. If that makes any sense at all.

Brandon Burton 30:48
It? It does. And who writes the rules is changing, too. It’s all upside down now. So

Moe Belliveau 30:56
I think to what I’ve learned is that, you know, 2022 took the extra step, just sketch. Yep. Right. But now we get to do whatever. Right, each chamber is different, although, basic, in some ways, the same, but different per per their community. Yeah.

Brandon Burton 31:16
Yeah. But no, this has been a fun conversation. I love the the innovative work that you guys are doing with it around entrepreneurs and creating this CO workspace and training these businesses that are operating in the shadows, help them pull them out, make them legitimate, make them make them be the real businesses that have that confidence to go out there and mix and mingle with others and scale and, and there’s that word scale, scale their business. But thank you for spending time with us today, sharing your example sharing some of these trends that you guys are setting right now. And, and I can see where other chambers are gonna hop on this this type of model in the very near future if they’re not already. So.

Moe Belliveau 32:04
Thank you for inviting me.

Brandon Burton 32:05
I wanted to ask you if there’s any contact information you’d like to share for listeners who might want to reach out and connect and learn more from you? Sure.

Moe Belliveau 32:13
So you know, our website is EastHamptonChamber.org. You can always connect with me. I’m happy to chat with anyone regarding any of this. I’m at moe@easthamptonchamber.org. Um, yeah,

Brandon Burton 32:30
very good. I will get that in our show notes for this episode, so people can find that and reach out and connect with you. Thank you. This has been great.

Moe Belliveau 32:40
No, I appreciate it was fun.

Brandon Burton 32:42
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Communication with a Personal Touch with Cindy Cobb

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your hosts Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

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Our guest for this episode is Cindy Cobb. Cindy is the Executive Director of the Rutherford County Chamber of Commerce in North Carolina. Cindy is a lifelong resident of Rutherford County at product of the Rutherford County school system and a graduate of Western Piedmont Community College. She and her husband Andy had been married for nearly 37 years have three grown children and two grandchildren. Her professional career began as a dental assistant. After her children came along she was a full time mom and domestic engineer until they became school age. Her father had a well established independent insurance agency and after consulting with him, Cindy decided to become a licensed Life and Health Insurance agent. Prospecting and meeting new people was something she enjoyed many of these were business owners. Well in the insurance business. She was awarded the Rookie of the Year top agent in the region top agency in the region and was a member of the President’s Club. Cindy was asked to help visit current Chamber members and prospective members temporarily while the chamber looked for a new executive director. A month later, the board asked if she would accept the position of executive director. Cindy’s been in this role now for two years and is looking forward to many more. That Cindy, I’m excited to have you with us today here on Chamber Chat Podcast. I’d love to give you a moment to say hello to all the Chamber Champions who are out there listening and to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better. Well,

Cindy Cobb 2:45
good morning and hello to all of the chamber champions you all are, are just a fabulous bunch of people. And over the past two years I have met so many wonderful people. I have never enjoyed getting up and going to work more. An interesting thing about me is that I am not only a lifelong resident of Rutherford County. My family is lifelong residents of Rutherford County before our country was even a country we were still a British colony. We have been in Rutherford County since 1726. And so I use that to my advantage with van a history buff and love listening to the stories and tales that that my grandparents and parents have shared with me. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 3:41
no, I’m a history buff myself and to be able to know that history from your family is awesome to be able to hear some of the stories passed down and to feel like you’re part of it is something special. So that is a an interesting factor that you said thank you. It tell us a little bit about the Rutherford County Chamber just to give us some perspective. Before we open up our topic for discussion today. Give us an idea of size, your chamber the scope of work, you guys are involved with staff budget, that sort of thing, just to kind of set the table for us.

Cindy Cobb 4:17
Well, the Rutherford County Chamber as far as chambers go, is not sure if you call us an adolescent, or maybe a teenager we have only been in existence since September of 1992. Okay, before that, each little town kind of did their own little thing and had their so called chamber. And in that day, 92 after one of the chambers had some problems, they decided to merge and form the Rutherford County Chamber, which really just made more sense because we all know that working together and being unified is when you can really get things done it specially in a rural area of Lot, Rutherford County. While we have a large landmass, we are one of the largest counties in North Carolina as far as land size, but we’re, we’re all spread out. There’s plenty of room for us to grow our chamber. We have currently just under 400 members, and we have a budget of $200,000. And, you know, we’re a two person team. We’re located in Forest City. Rutherford Eaton is the county seat. And we were once there but just before I started, they moved to Forest City, Forest City has been more of the kind of the epicenter of activity and our counting. And so that felt like that was a good place for the chamber to be.

Brandon Burton 6:16
That makes sense. Your your comment about being an adolescent or teenager chamber. I see that as you guys were kind of trendsetters back in 1992, because we’re seeing a lot of chambers today that are going through mergers and acquisitions like that as especially through the pandemic and certainly, you know, chambers are stress members, businesses are stressed. And being able to combine efforts to be able to use staff in multiple ways really made a lot of sense for chambers today, you know, in recent, the recent past to to merge, and you guys did it back in 1992. So I would take that as being a trendsetter, so

Cindy Cobb 7:03
I love being a trendsetter.

Brandon Burton 7:07
So for our topic today, we’re going to spend time, the majority of our time today talking about how you go about adding a personal touch to your communication amongst Chamber members and throughout your community. And we will dive deeper into that discussion as soon as we get back from this quick break.

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All right, Cindy, we are back. As I mentioned before the break we’re going to be talking about adding a personal touch to communication today. And full disclosure I did feel a little bit of guilt as we’re lining this up because of automation processes to line up guests and to send reminders and everything and maybe it takes away some of that personal touch but nonetheless it worked. We got you on the show. So and I will say it this came about because of a personal touch and communication from Chris need who introduced us and I believe the the introduction was that he wanted me to meet this firecracker from North Carolina. So No, Chris Mead has a way of adding a personal touch to his communication. But I’m excited to learn more about how you implement the personal touch and communication as we go through this today. But I guess first of all, you see you have this career in insurance, which I see a lot of correlations and building those relationships, and especially when it comes to that personal touch, you know, getting to know people’s names and family members. And you know, what’s important to them? How have you seen that in your previous career translate over into your chamber career. Now, as far as adding the personal touch goes

Cindy Cobb 10:40
on that. I don’t know if anyone has ever really been knocking at a door, looking to buy life insurance. That is something most people don’t get real excited about. And my dad was really old school, and he told me, you know, we don’t buy leads, you have to go out. And you like his term was shake a lot of bushes before you can catch the birds. And so I followed things back. Back during that time, which was quite a while ago, I’ve looked at the newspaper. followed that you started with small town papers, you had wedding announcements of land transfers were listed. Yeah, births. And so all of those things, along with this band were of a new business that would have been was the perfect lead for someone to need life insurance? Yeah, the health insurance would follow. That was something most people realize they needed. And so I had to be really kind of, at ease really comfortable going in and first few times is, you know, it was kind of nervous going in and meeting these people. I didn’t know where to pick up the phone and contact someone. Why should they listen to me? So it was a matter of making them feel comfortable? And not a hard pressure top sales job, really want to approach it? As you know, congratulations of saying you’ve had birth or congratulations on your marriage or new business? Have you thought about this with preparing your future? And so with that, it has really helped me and the, in the chamber world to approach things the same way. Um, these prospective members are the ones that that kind of took under my wing when I came into this that were already members to know that they could trust me, that I was someone they could feel comfortable picking up the phone and calling or emailing me with a request or if they had a question. And I think that was one of the biggest things little did I know, so long ago, that it would prepare me for this time and this, this calling that I have with the chamber? Yeah.

Brandon Burton 13:50
And I think a lot of people can relate with the nerves that you talked about, about approaching businesses, and who am I to kind of that impostor syndrome, as they call it today? And in my career, I’ve had been in sales most of my career, and as I train new salespeople, one of the things I have to remind them because they’re nervous doing the same thing approaching businesses, and what if I don’t know this? What if I don’t present it right? And it’s like, you know, what, this is the first time that they’re hearing about this opportunity. You know, this is the first time you’re the expert in this room. Right? So that helps to alleviate some of that pressure some of those nerves about who am I? Because when you put it in that kind of perspective, it’s like you’re right. So even as you’re approaching prospective Chamber members or current Chamber members, you’re the one that knows the offerings that your chamber has to offer. You’re the one that knows the ins and outs and you’re there to learn about them so you can better align what you have to offer to serve them better. And going with that perspective, I think helps alleviate some of those nerves. That

Cindy Cobb 14:57
and and believe it In your product, you know, whether it was for for me at that time, my the insurance I was offering and believing and knowing the benefits of it. And the same with the chamber. And having lived here my whole life, I do remember when the chamber was organized and the the challenges and the struggles that they went through, as well as the triumphs. And so I’ve really believed it. And before I agreed to go out and see members on which I thought was going to be a temporary thing. I really studied the chamber as study, not only our chamber, US study chambers in general, to know, what we what we’re all about, and the influence that we can have, and how we can advocate. You know, we’re there for them, and, and to bring unity. So that can make our, our area a better place to live. So with knowing the product, and really believing in it, the enthusiasm is genuine. Yeah.

Brandon Burton 16:25
So with our topic today about adding a personal touch to our communication efforts, I see it really is relationship building. And maybe you see it differently. I don’t know, I think when you sum it up, that’s what it comes down to is building relationships and showing that you care to these people, these members that you’re communicating with, what are some of the ways that you’ve learned and adapted to show your care and your interest in these individuals as you communicate with them?

Cindy Cobb 16:56
Well, if at all possible, if they have a social media page, follow it. And I interact with them on layer, that that helps them to know that we’re watching that we know what’s happening us if I see something interesting, some type of announcement, they don’t always contact the chamber about it. But I see it there. So I can repost that with some personalized comments. And I can also share that with my assistant. And let’s include this in our newsletter, this is big news, or if it’s something on accomplishment, forum, you know, we’d like to do that. People, people like to know that they’re being noticed. So there’s some things that I do.

Brandon Burton 17:59
So I’ve seen it, I don’t mean to cut you off or interrupt. I think this ties in well, I’ve seen some chambers where to make sure their members feel noticed is for those who maybe purchase an ad space in their chamber directory, or there’s their chamber map or the sponsors of certain events, to give them special shout outs on social media, and even resharing. Like if it’s an ad in your chamber directory, for example, to share that ad on social media and leverage that a little further add your personal touch on it, but it also drives people to the awareness of promoting the chamber in whatever publications or events that you’re promoting with that. So yes, I think it’s two birds with one stone.

Cindy Cobb 18:45
Yes, that that is really just the, I see it as the very least that we can do. If people are willing to be a sponsor. We, we always, always make sure that they are acknowledged in our newsletter, or any emails, our social media, always make sure I do that. And you know, it is is this something that is like they really feel like, Oh, why I’m getting the recognition, I am getting that exposure. One of the things that I’ve recently started doing is a local radio station has a community Morning Report. This is something you probably wouldn’t have in a larger city. But in our little area, they call around. They talk to different people and they give a report for each community. I watch them on Facebook Live so that way I can use the live chat and it’s a good right way to do plugs for the chamber. anything as far as, like a new member or ribbon cutting, I always mentioned that on layer. If we have something special coming up, like, for instance, we have our annual golf tournament and fundraiser that’s coming up soon. And the sponsors would that, always make sure to mention them that way? It’s free advertising for us. Yeah. But they’re getting advertising, too. Yeah.

Brandon Burton 20:34
It doesn’t cost the chamber really anything. But a few minutes to post it. event, it makes a huge impact for that business. So next time when they consider being a sponsor, or participating in whatever event, instead of saying what’s in it, for me, at least they know that tangible thing, the Chamber went that extra step to make sure that their business is being noticed. Yes. Adding that personal touch.

Cindy Cobb 20:59
Yes, that’s right. That’s right. You know, when you’re reaching a whole other audience, like with this with the radio station that may not have thought about following the chamber on Facebook, but I have found since I’ve been doing that, that our Facebook following has increased? Yeah, yeah, there’s, that’s a different group that listens at seven in the morning, to a community kind of round up and report with what’s going on with the union meals area. Nobody, but someone in Rutherford County knows. Union meals, where’s laps? Right,

Brandon Burton 21:51
right. Yeah, those are, they’re gonna tend to be people who care about the community and want to have more involvement possibly. So Right. That’s, that’s key. What are some of these other ways with personal, the personal adding the personal touch and the communication that you? Well,

Cindy Cobb 22:10
face to face? That, that is that definitely a personal touch, you can’t get much more personal. So when someone joins our chamber, or they renew their membership, and the certificates are printed out, you know, not only sign those and frame them, take them and deliver them, to them with their new little claim for their door to their business. And I just hand deliver it and, and thank them for renewing or becoming a part of the chamber, and inform them about the benefits membered member discounts, and I encourage you, you know, you need to, you need to try this. And this, you know, letting them know less, I have enough time to come out and see you now do Trump planet, to where when I know where I’m going for the day, I have those things with me that are going to be on my route of where I’m going. But it doesn’t take much time to drop that off. And just stop by and say hello and see how they’re doing. It really makes difference not have found. Everyone always has come for at least a brief chat. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 23:44
yeah. And even without an appointment, necessarily. I mean, you’re gonna run across it, where they’re in a meeting, and they can’t see you. But if they if they can, and you’re dropping something off for them, you’re going to show gratitude for the investment they’re making in the chamber. They’re gonna take two minutes to say hi, and and receive that. So yes, I love that. So I know. I mean, in today’s world, people are so busy, especially when you look at chamber executives are so busy, you know, there’s so much going on, that we’re looking for ways to maybe shortcuts or ways to systematize or be able to leverage our time in a in a more efficient way. So what would you say to those who are like I need to really hone down my time to encourage them to add the personal touch, what are you? What kind of return are you seeing on that investment of taking that time to add the personal touch and your communication? Well,

Cindy Cobb 24:46
I’m sure I’m not the only one that has their email account on their phone so they can check their emails because I have found if I’m just sitting in the office, really not doing my job. So I will. I’ll be checking emails when I wake up every morning. That’s one of the first signs that I do. And so I look at it, we just recently had a presentation, our professional women’s group called the chamber cheeks, by the way, now take that later what it means that the program was on time management. And so there was some good things have learned from that. So prioritizing the ones, go ahead and read them, go ahead and look at it. And then if it’s something where I can answer quickly, I try to go ahead and answer it quickly. If it’s something urgent, definitely try to try to answer that. And if not, if it’s an a male might be where they’re just wanting us to check on something. Yeah, I will, I will forward that to my sister, Lily, and then she’ll take care of it. So I’m not answering every one of the emails because any of these other chambers, they can tell you. And I’m sure they could share a lot more with me because their years of experience. A lot of the emails are kind of sale you set up then OR gate day, they said, those are the ones that kind of go into file 13. Right.

Brandon Burton 26:45
That makes sense. That makes sense. So I know, we’re gonna start wrapping things up here, but I wanted to give you an opportunity of to share any tip or action item for listeners who are looking to take their chamber to the next level, what kind of suggestion or tip or advice would you offer for that?

Cindy Cobb 27:08
I would say, first, listen to what your members are saying in a nice way, or I think the relationship part is important when they listen and observe what’s going on with their business men where their struggles are. And if at all possible, try to help them through that. Through that rough patch, whatever they may be dealing with. I’ve really feel like this important. Also, in our case, not just mentioned our women’s group. I saw a need and, and also, as I shared the idea of forming a professional women’s group that a lot of ladies were interested in that. So we’ve only had two meetings now. But each one is growing and spreading more people are talking about it. I’ve got spine this language checks. Yes,

Brandon Burton 28:19
I was gonna ask you you had mentioned that gave us that teaser. Tell us tell us what that’s about? Yes.

Cindy Cobb 28:25
So I can’t think of okay. You know, I’ve got to think of something where people can remember it. And I saw some of these were women on fire, fire or power up and all these really strong things. And I’m like, Oh, my gracious. I don’t I don’t know, I’m not sure what I don’t want to do. And I don’t want to mimic somebody. I want it to be something that’s original. I’m sure. The there’s been some other chamber cheeks, but ours is an acronym. Okay. Shakes stands for community health, influence, connection, knowledge and support. And I feel like that pretty much sums up what our group is about. We want to help our community, promote women’s health, the influence of the each of those women on hmm to know they’re vitally important to the to the success of that group, because their sphere of influence can make an impact. The connections, obviously, you know, if you’re a business woman, that those connections layer, you can Meet people that you may not you may not know about this is brought some out of the woodwork that were even some home based business women. One lady for instance, she she’s in like the cryptocurrency another one is a marketing firm that she’s just working from her home. And making those connections, the knowledge, like the, the program on time management, that was something I felt like every one of us could benefit from, and support so that we’re there for each other. There’s a variety of ages. So whether you’re a young woman starting off in the business world, you have these mentors that can help support you, and kind of carry you through whether it’s with your business or even in your personal life, those things. So that’s what Chix stands for.

Brandon Burton 31:07
Yeah, I love that I love that you were able to make an acronym out of it gives a little more meaning to it shows the intentionality behind the name. But another maybe tidbit when it comes to creating a name for a group like this or an event. And I did this when I started chamber chat podcast that was trying to figure out what would be a name that people would remember that they could tell us what it is without, you know, being too wordy. And if you can come up with the name that you like the most. And have some casual conversations with other people. Maybe it’s Chamber members and say, hey, you know, we’re thinking to do in this women’s networking group and maybe call it like chamber chicks or something like don’t have that be the focus of the conversation, but drop it in there. Right? And then like two weeks later, circle back with that person say, Hey, do you remember that conversation we had about this women’s group? Do you remember the name that I told you were considering? If they can repeat it back to you? You got a winner? Right? Yes. Whereas they’re like, I remember, I don’t remember what the name was. But you just casually drop it in there. And if it doesn’t resonate, go to the next name on your list and have those casual conversations with some other people until you get a winner.

Cindy Cobb 32:25
Yes, that’s that is something that that I have. I have been doing slug. I’ll say someone’s like, hey, we would love it. If you could join us. Would you like to get away at least once a month during lunch? Was mother ladies? And when I tell him the name, they always smile. Yeah, no. And they, you know, I’ve had some that, that haven’t even mentioned that too. And they’ll they’ll say something to me what? Oh, yeah, I’ve heard about you cheeks.

Brandon Burton 33:07
I love it. Well, I like asking everyone I have on the show, as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward? Oh,

Cindy Cobb 33:22
I think while it is a really an age old and tried and true resource for businesses is something where we have to continue to educate because there’s new generations that don’t realize what chamber is. But when take the time, and you share with them, and you let them know. They’re excited about it too. And they they do like that personal touch the interaction. Some meaning especially during COVID Everything was done remotely. And from you know, just behind a screen. And when people can be a part of a chamber and it’s like, oh, this is promote my business. It’s, it’s really a good value. Look what you get. And you get to meet all these other really great folks that have businesses and wow, this is really gonna help man I love this. It says stories when people connect and they do business with one another later. But I think it’s something where we can’t just sit back and leave people educated about what the Chamber’s about is a process that way or this having to repeat there’s this those foundations that we have to lay, but are really see that there’s a real name for it. Because in today’s economy, some of the things are not always pro business. And it’s making it tough for them. So knowing that they have someone an organization of backing, that’s their advocate, and keep them and touch with these grants are available or this go to this resource, this, this will be great, or even just some simple things slack. Up until just this past year, we did not offer a monthly dues, or it could be, you know, drafted. And I saw how some of the businesses were struggling. And so when we allow that, oh, Ma, they just they’re like, Oh, that’s great, because I really want to stay, I really want to retain my chamber membership. And that just, that just really lifts me up. Because then it’s like, well, they, you know, if they’re really, you know, they’re struggling, but they see and they really want to keep this ties with the chamber. I think that’s a great testimony as to the future of both chambers.

Brandon Burton 36:31
Right. But you’re doing a great example of keeping the community informed on what chambers do with your involvement in these Facebook groups and chiming in and saying, Well, this is what the chamber does. They’re given the plug where it makes sense, not hijacking the conversation at all, but just being there is that voice of voice for business? Right saying, chamber does? I think it’s a great example. And yes, with a membership dues, I think, in today’s world with the way software is structured now, with your invoicing, it’s so easy to set them up on a monthly dues schedule, if that’s what makes sense for him. Why would you eliminate somebody because they can’t do the one time payment or quarterly payments, just make it easy, make it fit for them, meet them where they’re at, and support their business, they tend to be the ones that need the most support from a chamber. So that’s

Cindy Cobb 37:22
right, those that have struggled, when you’re sticking with them, they tend to be the ones that are growing faith and whilst loyal to. And that’s something as I look back with my past career, when, you know, something tragic happened, and some I had to do a death client, and you deliver that or with, you know, they can use their cash value at their policy to go in and have a downpayment for a home, and it’s helping them to get established. They remember that, right? And so some of those from my past are now my Chamber members. Yeah, yeah,

Brandon Burton 38:14
that’s great. Well, Cindy, I wanted to give you a chance to share any contact information for listeners who might want to reach out and connect with you and build a relationship or learn from from things that you’re doing what would be the best way for someone to reach out and connect?

Cindy Cobb 38:30
Well, they can always email and my email is cindycobb@rutherfordcoc.org. Can also if they would like to call the chamber 828-287-3090. That’s one way. We are on Facebook. Rutherford County Chamber of Commerce. There is a Rutherford County, Tennessee. We occasionally will have those that are in Tennessee, that

Brandon Burton 39:09
are members in Tennessee, you know,

Cindy Cobb 39:12
believe it or not, we’ve had some where they start following our Facebook page. And they applied online to our chamber.

Brandon Burton 39:21
They just liked the work you’re doing. Yeah.

Cindy Cobb 39:25
Well pick up the phone and give him a call. It’s like Thank you. You may have applied to the Rome chamber.

Brandon Burton 39:32
That’s good. It’s funny. This has been great. It’s a so it’s a good conversation just to have these reminders of adding that personal touch building those genuine relationships, having those those touch points on a regular basis, not just when you’re asking for dues and renewing a membership or sponsorships. So building those relationships and keeping it genuine I think is key but say appreciate you being with us today here on chamber chat podcast sharing your insights and experience and the value that you brought to the show today. Well,

Cindy Cobb 40:08
thank you so much. It was quite an honor. And the Kismet that keep it simple, stupid, does some simple things can make a world of difference. That is correct.

Brandon Burton 40:23
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Strategic Planning Pitfalls with Carol Hamilton

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your hosts Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

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Becki Womble 1:03
I’ve been using Community Matters for probably six or seven years now. And in a previous life, I sold commercial printing so I can highly recommend Community Matters because it’s a complete turnkey job for any busy chamber exec and it’s a wonderful, beautiful printed product whenever you’re finished. And I just I’m very sold on Community Matters. And with a printing background I just big endorsement from me.

Brandon Burton 1:44
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Our guest for this episode is Carol Hamilton. Carol is principal of grace social selector consulting, LLC, and host of mission impact podcast. Carol helps organizations and teams become more strategic and innovative or greater mission impact. She facilitates strategic planning, mapping an organization’s impact and organizational assessments for nonprofits and associations. Carol, I’m excited to have you with us today on chamber chat podcast, I’d love for you to take a moment to say hello to all the chamber champions who are out there listening and to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better. Well,

Carol Hamilton 2:42
thank you, Brandon, thank you for having me on the podcast. It’s an honor. Yeah, I so my name is Carol Hamilton, gray social sector consulting. And I, I was trying to think about, you know, what, what interesting thing could I share, but I think one that informs the work that I do is that I am the younger sister of a person, my brother has significant disabilities, he’s autistic and profoundly deaf and developmentally disabled and growing up with him, you know, as as, as my older brother, I definitely saw the way in which the world was not built for someone like him. And so for me, when I’m doing my work, I’m always trying to contribute my small part, to really building a world where everyone can thrive where there really no exceptions to that. And so that’s that kind of what is what motivated me to, you know, come into the to the nonprofit sector and want to be part of movements and groups and organizations that are really trying to help build a world where everyone can thrive.

Brandon Burton 3:52
Yeah, I like that it’s nice to to have that that driver you know, behind you that that background that really motivates you to you know, for greater good. So, I think that I imagined that will come into our conversation today and inclusion aspects as a topic today. But based upon your work and the kind of the focus that we wanted to take our conversation today on the podcast is going to be focused around common strategic planning mistakes. So I’m sure you have some examples and things that you can share with us from your experience and meeting with different organizations and going about strategic planning and I’m excited to dive in deeper and learn from these experiences as soon as they get back from this quick break.

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All right, Carol, we’re back. So as I mentioned before the break, we’re talking about strategic planning mistakes. So for chambers that are tuning in, creating a strategic plan is a integral part of their organization being able to know their mission and purpose going forward. And as they go about creating strategic plans, what are some of these key things that you see that stand out that organizations maybe ought to be aware of? And some of these mistakes, etc, that maybe we can help these chambers avoid some of these pitfalls? By sharing some of your experiences? Yeah,

Carol Hamilton 7:13
yeah, I think pitfalls are probably is a good way to put it. Because certainly nobody goes into the process trying to, you know, have it not be productive and effective for the organization. But I think one of them, and I’ll be a little, I don’t know, whether controversial or contrarian here is that the common wisdom around boards and staff, and I’m sure that there are many of your listeners who are probably maybe on the volunteer side of local chambers, but where they do have staff, it’s been seen that the board, or traditionally been held that the board is the one who’s in charge of strategy. And I, you know, that’s certainly an important role for the board. But I like to take a whole organization approach where really every brain, every part of the brain, both that analytical side, and all the complexities that people bring, all of them are important to the organization’s future, and kind of opening up the conversation, to include more people into how you structure and frame up your vision and will really serve the organization well to help have people be motivated and more motivated to be behind. Whatever you ultimately as a group decide are your big, big goals, the big vision that you’re moving forward. So I would invite leaders to, you know, bring and bring more of a kind of big tent approach so that when a lot of people talk a lot about buy in, and then you know, if they do it with a small group, and then bring the plan to other people and wonder why they’re not excited about it. I would say get the people in the room with you, they’ll get excited about it. Because they’ve been they’ve had a hand in creating that vision. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 9:05
and I think that’s such an important part of creating a vision is getting buy in from as many people as possible and being able to feel like they had a voice and creating that plan. So as it’s unveiled and in you get rubber to the road, you get more people that are willing to participate and help move that mission forward. I like how you, you mentioned how typically, you might see how a board that might be a pitfall, right, where if it’s just the board sitting in a room creating a strategic plan. Maybe they’re missing insights from others in the community. So when you talk about getting more people involved, if you are looking at a chamber of commerce, what examples might you give of other types of people or organizations or what where would you look to to get more involvement in creating that strategic plan? And or chamber. Yeah,

Carol Hamilton 10:01
and I think when I say that it doesn’t mean that everybody is ultimately at, you know, the the planning session or the retreat, it’s that you’ve taken the time to get feedback from a variety of stakeholders, you’ve identified who those stakeholders are, who are important to, you know, moving the vision of your organization forward. You know, the people who are you’re very involved volunteers, your staff, your members, but then wider than that people in the community that you have partners with other other organizations that you have alliances with, the people that you serve, all of those folks will be important, they won’t necessarily all end up in the room making the decisions about the organization, but taking that time to talk to people and get feedback. And oftentimes, that’s where an external party consultant can help out because folks will be more willing to kind of share candidly, with someone who doesn’t have a stake in the outcome. You know, in terms of that, that feedback and input, and will also help to synthesize all that information, because it’s a, it’s a big lift to talk to a lot of people, and then you’ve got so much information, it can feel overwhelming, but how do you sift it down to some of the important nuggets, that then you as a as a smaller group of board, and staff can really chew on and say, Okay, this is what we’re hearing from people, this is what we’ve set ourselves about what we want. And this is a, this is what, you know, this, this is the significance that has for us in our future going forward. And oftentimes, I find that, again, that kind of fear of that big tent is that folks will be overwhelmed by the number of opinions, ideas, all the different things. And in terms of when I’m talking, when I’ve done this work with groups, I’ve actually found that they’ve been surprised by how much agreement there actually is. And pleasantly surprised. And it often will bring issues onto the table that maybe they were thinking and they talked to somebody in the hallway, but you know, after the board meeting, but they they weren’t weren’t willing to bring up in the in the formal session, and so that this process can give, make it safer to have those conversations about critical issues.

Brandon Burton 12:33
I like the point that you make about bringing in a consultant for that specific purpose, because I think there’s a lot of value in bringing in somebody from the outside. I’ve seen myself in that role it were a, I’ll joke about being the bartender, you know, we’re the members, the members of the organization, they’ll tell you all their gripes and all the things you know, that they see wrong with the organization, and the things that they like, and the things that they’re excited about. Sure, exactly. But things that they may not be as open to just telling the chamber directly or to get the face of the chamber executive and say, I disagree with this or that or so having a third party come in, there’s a lot of value to be able to flesh out that real, meaningful data, that information that you can get from people that you wouldn’t get just having your normal day to day conversations. And I think for a chamber staff to be able to try to collect all this feedback, on top of doing their day to day job, it’s a big lift to try to do that and make sense of all the information they’re bringing in. So having a consultant somebody who’s focused on that, and being able to go through with all that information means and present it in a way that makes sense. And you can look at a report and kind of go over and say, Okay, it’s good feedback. So in soliciting that feedback, you’d mentioned talking to individuals. So I imagine there can be an interview portion of soliciting feedback, talking to some of those key stakeholders, surveys, what what are some of the ideal ways you see in soliciting that feedback that have been effective from your experience?

Carol Hamilton 14:24
Yeah, so it’s going to depend on each organization and, and the scope and the scale and, you know, their capacity, the budget, all those things, but generally, it’s a combination of interviews, one on one interviews, focus groups with, you know, groups of people up to eight to 10, and then surveys, and so, some combination of those will will, you know, enable you to really get into what people perceive as the strengths, the challenges, the opportunities, and all the things that are important for the Future of the organization. And I think another mistake that organizations make is thinking that strategic planning is just about about having a retreat. And so for me that that date, that kind of listening tour that you can go on, is a really important fundamental piece to get that good snapshot of where are you at this moment? Where is the organization right now? You know, what are people are saying, across the board? Are challenges and things that are getting in the way? And then what are the strengths that everyone’s seeing and the opportunities? So really being grounded in that kind of what’s our current reality? Right.

Brandon Burton 15:39
And before that retreat happens, you need to have good accurate data to go off of exactly decisions. Right. Exactly. There’s the planning before the retreat that that takes place. Yeah. So

Carol Hamilton 15:51
that’s, that’s part of that data gathering process. Yeah. So

Brandon Burton 15:55
as I’m thinking of these interviews, I think my first thought goes to with the chamber to go to the members of the chamber to get feedback from them, I think it may be important to even solicit others in the business community who are not members to find out what what do they see the role of the chamber being? Why are they not members? You know, they have they been members in the past? What can we get from that experience? But also, committees, right? So there’s different committees within organizations and getting their feedback on their role? And how they see that being a part of the greater organization? And how can things maybe be more efficient? And I don’t know, I’m just trying to think of all the different sources to gather data from to be able to create a rock solid strategic plan. Are there other areas that you would think have to go to for to gather that information?

Carol Hamilton 16:57
Yeah, I mean, you know, usually, I’m working with the organization and a set of small, smaller set of folks from the organization, usually a combination of, you know, staff leadership and board, to really identify who all those important stakeholders are. So the organization will know, you know, who’s really important for us to talk to, and so we’ll work together to come up with that list of okay, who are we going to kind of reserve that one on one interaction with who are we going to invite to more of a group experience? Who are we going to reach out to via a survey? So really thinking through those those important points of you know, who, who most matters to the future of the organization? And also, what do we want to learn from them? You know, what are the big issues that we see that we’re curious about, that we also we kind of know, our perspective on, but how, you know, is that in alignment with how other people are seeing it? So kind of getting that cross check of, you know, is how we’re seeing the things aligning up with everybody else? And, and where’s their agreement? And where’s their, you know, some some divergence of opinion. I

Brandon Burton 18:07
like that. And you said, Something stood out to me, you said, what do we want to learn from them? And that should be the basis of all these interactions? Right? Right, what do we want right from them. And that takes me back to the thought of inclusion when you shared the tidbit about your brother and kind of that lens that it gives you in looking at your work? How do you go about inclusion, and specifically getting these opinions of voices that may not be heard, as regularly as they probably should be?

Carol Hamilton 18:42
Yeah, I mean, I think it’s important to think about, you know, as you’re making those decisions about who you’re going to prioritize, to interview and do focus groups, and surveys is really the power dynamics within organization of, are you only favoring people who already have the most power and already have the most voice and already have the most influence with the people that you you talk to one on one? Or are you doing more of a cross section or of the organization so that you get that rich feedback from a variety of people. So it’s it thinking about it in those terms that will help help define and really put inclusion at the at the center. As an organization, if you want to grow, you know, being able to see the wider net is going to be important. So,

Brandon Burton 19:39
yeah, so we’ve talked a lot about gathering that information, the data, and then the retreats is usually what people think about when you think of a strategic plan. So let’s focus a little bit more on the actual implementation of the plan. What how should that look? What are some of those pitfalls that you’ve seen that people need to be aware of to avoid as they go about implementing their strategic plan?

Carol Hamilton 20:07
So before we jump to the implementation, there’s one thing I wanted to say about the retreat, which I think is also another pitfall that people can fall into. And it’s kind of the, I think it’s the thing that leaders fear when they bring a lot of people in. So they fear a retreat that ends with just flip chart after flip chart, after flip chart, have nice ideas. And they haven’t taken the time to talk together. And I actually asked people to do this at the very beginning, before they start brainstorming ideas of how are we going to decide what we’re actually going to do, because you can never do it all. And you can’t do all the good ideas, you know, so you need a way to discern which ones are going to be the ones that you focus on. And so having that conversation upfront of how are we going to make some decisions, and then ensuring that somewhere in the process, you are making some decisions and discernment is so important. Because otherwise you end up with this laundry list plan that isn’t really a plan. It’s just a wish list. And so if you end up with a wish list plan that that gets in the way of implementation. But yeah, I think that’s that’s another key point that being clear with everybody all along the way that you’re going to have to focus on a couple things, you’re going to have to make some decisions. And if you can be clear with everybody, okay, these are the things that we’re looking for, you know, we’re looking for things that are going to grow revenue, we think we’re looking for things that are going to increase member satisfaction that are that are going to, you know, improve our reputation are going to, you know, contribute in some way to community health, whatever it might be. You’ve, you’ve agreed ahead of time, what those criteria are, that they it all aligns with our mission. So that then when you have that long list, you can go through and actually make some decisions.

Brandon Burton 22:12
Yeah, no, that makes that makes a lot of sense. I know. A lot of times, people and even other organizations will come to the chamber and say, here’s a great idea of something that you should do, right? And then it becomes that wish list of others. So I can see where you can have those turns ended up being a long wish list. Yeah, it’d be great if we could do this and that, but when it comes down to it, you need to have the resources to be able to execute and be able to do it well, right? You don’t want to just take something on and then have it be lackluster, and have it end up being a bad representation of your organization because you’re not doing it well. So yeah, moving beyond that wish list and having a solid plan is is huge. That’s important.

Carol Hamilton 23:03
Yeah, so and that list of criteria that you come up with can be great in that instance, of all the different people coming and saying, Well, you should do this. Well, we can run it through this kind of rubric decision making flowchart, if you will, and decide whether it actually fits, you know, fits our goals or not. But I think in terms of moving from, okay, we’ve got a plan, you know, it’s got three to five big goals, no more than that. We’ve identified, what are some of the action steps that we’re going to take, we’ve really gotten clear and gotten shared understanding about what does success look like for each of those. So oftentimes, I’ll see plans that have that big goal, have a couple action steps, but don’t necessarily go that next step of saying, Okay, if we take this action, what do we expect is going to happen? What do we think that’s going to look like that in the way so that we can know whether we’ve had the success. So this is where you get, you know, your your performance indicators, whether that’s some of them will be, you know, quantitative, but some of them may be qualitative, some of them may be, you know, we decided we’re going to take a new approach in membership. And we’re going to work with somebody to come up with a plan around that. And so, you know, the first success item is going to be we, we have a plan. So there’ll be a variety of different things. So with that, then thinking about okay, so this is a plan over three to five years. How do we actually what are we actually going to do in the next six months, just focus on that and not try to predict what you’re doing in year three, I see a lot of people getting caught up in wasting time, trying to nail down every detail over the five year three, three to five year period. And I say just take that for next six months, that next year. And that’s where you do your implementation plan of who’s going to do what by when? I

Brandon Burton 24:56
like that. It’s hard sometimes to Do you get caught up in the big vision, the big plan and you forget that it’s the day to day actions that execute on that five year plan. So as you talk about these performance indicators, it’s probably good to review what those performance indicators are in some sort of a regular interval. Do you have any suggestions on how how often to look bad like, because you can also get caught up on the data and continually look at it and not move the needle or feel like you’re moving the needle? So what’s a? And there’s probably not a straight answer for it. But what would be your guideline to being able to check those performance indicators and see, you know, how things are trending?

Carol Hamilton 25:42
Yeah, so so the two step for me of really making a plan, integrating it into your into how you do your work, is creating that that shorter term implementation plan, but then also coming to agreement about, okay, so we’re going to check in on this at this meeting. Every you know, quarter, or every six months or every year, whatever, you have an agreement again, ahead of time of how you’re going to do that. And then to remember that the strategic plan it you know, we talk about things being living documents all the time, but somehow, in people’s head, once the board has approved it, it becomes this, like, you know, written in stone, sacred document, and it’s not, it’s a plan, things will happen that you can’t anticipate strategic planning is not about predicting the future. It’s about setting your intentions about where you want to put your energy. So you’re going to have to readjust, you’re going to So it’s that kind of balance between, we have some goals, we have some strategy, we have some structure, and we’re going to be flexible. It’s not an either or it’s a both. And so having an agreement about how you’re going to do that, and who’s going to be able to make some updates is really important as well.

Brandon Burton 26:53
Yeah, I think that pandemic taught everybody that need to be able to be flexible. It’s a plan, but we need to be able to pivot and make adjustments where needed. Yep. Yep. So that’s a great point to make. Are there other things when it comes to strategic planning pitfalls that we haven’t addressed that come to mind that we want to make sure to touch on?

Carol Hamilton 27:17
Yeah, I think, um, you know, it’s, it’s when you’re actually doing that decision making about what are you going to focus on over the next three to five years, it’s balancing, you know, we want to stretch, we want to improve, we want to grow. And we don’t want to, again, it’s kind of a different version of that long laundry wishlist. But if the if the aspirations are so beyond where the organization is, it’s also going to fall flat because it just doesn’t match the capacity. So not to just say, Okay, this is this is all we can do, because that’s all we have right now. But being realistic about where you are, and what’s going to move you forward to actually, you know, so that you have the resources to do what you want to do. So having not having those two things be decoupled. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 28:08
reminds me and I’m terrible at attributing quotes, but I’ll say the quote, you can look up whoever said it, but something to the effect that individuals underestimate what they can accomplish in 10 years, but overestimate what they can do in one year. So Oh, my God, or one week, right? Yeah, one way Yeah. You go out and you say, and this year, I’m going to do all these things. And really, it’s like, no, like, you got to eat the elephant one bite at a time. Right? Right, we’re in a 10, five, or even less strategic plan is three to five year plan. Because we see the quote unquote, failures on those smaller timelines, we don’t feel like we can shoot big because we’ve we’ve seen the smaller steps not come through, but we sell ourselves short in realizing what that cumulative effect of having those small effects has over that longer time horizon. So

Carol Hamilton 29:01
yeah, so it’s, it’s the tricky part of trying to find that Goldilocks spot of, you know, just enough stretch, and also, you know, tempered with some realism about, you know, what can we accomplish with what we have? Yeah. And then what do we need to get if we want to do you know, when we want to do more?

Brandon Burton 29:19
Absolutely. Well, Carol, as we start to wrap things up, I like asking for chambers who are listening who are interested in taking their chamber up to the next level, what kind of tip or action item might you have to share with them as they try to accomplish that goal of raising her elevating their, the level of their chamber?

Carol Hamilton 29:40
Yeah, I mean, the the tagline that I use for my podcast is, you know, people who are in the non in the nonprofit sector, who wants to do good in the world without being a martyr to the cause. And so, I think the thing that I’ve been hearing a lot from people recently is when leaders get in their own way of having the organization be overly identified with one person, and to step back and realize that it’s a group effort where it’s always a collective effort. That’s why we have organizations. And so how can you take small steps you were talking about that eating the elephant, one bite at a time to start building leadership capacity throughout your organization. So, you know, asking a staff member to share and facilitate part of a board meeting, if you do the whole thing all the time? You know, just taking small steps, what’s one thing on your to do list somebody else could do? And they could learn from it. I know, it’s easy for you to probably you could probably do it faster. And it might take a little longer to give them all the context. But I think the more we’re building leadership capacity, the the we’re also contributing to the strength of the organization long term.

Brandon Burton 30:53
Absolutely. And I think that’s such a key point to not have the organization be about one person. So it’s about relying on your board and your organization’s your ambassadors are all the different committees and different things that are involved. And I don’t know who eats elephant anyway. But well, right.

Carol Hamilton 31:13
Doesn’t mean they don’t appreciate it. And it doesn’t sound very tasty.

Brandon Burton 31:17
That’s right. Sounds tough. But I also like asking, as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how how would you view the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Carol Hamilton 31:29
Well, I guess, I would hope that chambers would join me in my, my goal of trying to contribute to a world that really thrives for that really is built so that everyone can thrive without an exception. So whatever businesses can do to to contribute to helping their community thrive. And have it be you know about about all of us, versus, you know, a few people I, I would love, I would love the chamber movement to be part of that.

Brandon Burton 32:03
Yeah, I think that’s great. Carol, for listeners who might want to reach out and connect with you and learn more about your offerings, and how you might be able to help their organizations, what would be the best way for them to reach out and connect?

Carol Hamilton 32:17
So my website’s Grace social sector.com. You can find me on LinkedIn, although my name is pretty common. Carol Hamilton. So also check out mission impact. It’s on all the podcast platforms. You can find me there. So

Brandon Burton 32:35
that’s awesome. And everybody listening is listening to a podcast so they know how to find exactly so looking permission. Carol, this has been great having you on chamber chat podcast. I appreciate you setting aside some time and being with us today and bringing the value and experience from your perspective and strategic planning and helping to give these chambers that are listening to an extra boost as they go about doing that and there are organizations that really appreciate thank

Carol Hamilton 33:03
you so much. Thanks for the opportunity.

Brandon Burton 33:05
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Tricks of the Trade with Travis Toliver

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your hosts Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

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Becki Womble 1:03
I’ve been using Community Matters for probably six or seven years now. And in a previous life, I sold commercial printing so I can highly recommend Community Matters because it’s a complete turnkey job for any busy chamber exec and it’s a wonderful, beautiful printed product whenever you’re finished. And I just I’m very sold on Community Matters. And with a printing background I just big endorsement from me.

Brandon Burton 1:44
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Our guest for this episode is Travis Toliver. Travis is the is currently in his 10th year serving as executive director for the Waverly Chamber of Commerce and the Waverly Main Street Program in Iowa. Travis continues to use his acquired skills to help better the Waverly business community the state of Iowa in the upper Midwest. He proudly serves on the board of directors for the Mid American Chamber executives Waverly Area Development Fund, and several other local organizations. Travis is past board member for the Iowa Association of Chamber of Commerce. During his two terms as board chair Travis helped to lead IACC through a management change a rebrand and name change, and a revamp of IAC ces conferences and education programs. Travis is a 2020 IOM graduate in 2021, Travis was appointed by Iowa Governor Kim Reynolds to help empower rural Iowa initiatives grow Task Force, which focuses on addressing the recruitment and retention of emerging leaders in rural communities. Travis, we’re excited to have you with us today here on Chamber Chat Podcast, I’d love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the Chamber Champions who are out there listening and share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better.

Travis Toliver 3:20
Well, thanks Brandon for having me on the show. I really appreciate it a big fan of the podcast and just glad to be one of many amazing chamber directors out there that have been featured on your on your show. So thanks for having me.

Brandon Burton 3:33
Absolutely. We try to only get the best. So you fit that criteria.

Travis Toliver 3:39
That’s a high bar.

Brandon Burton 3:41
Well then tell us a little bit about your organization about the Waverly Chamber of Commerce and Main Street programming as a kind of group together with the two the two friends there but tell us about Scope of Work size a chamber staff just kind of set the stage for our discussion. Sure. Well, the

Travis Toliver 3:58
way really Chamber of Commerce was founded in 1937. And so we’re, we’re over 85 years old. And in 1989, we really became one of the first main streets communities in Iowa. About five years later, the two organizations decided to stop chasing the same money in town and merged together as the Waverly Chamber of Commerce and Main Street program. We have nearly 300 business members and investors in our organization. We’re in a town of the size of 10,000 people. We also the home to Wartburg College, which is a four year liberal arts college of the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America. And we’re also the home to an array of amazing businesses from big corporate entities such as TruStage GMT, a lot of manufacturers in town, Nestle, anything that’s powder base that Nestle makes is made right here in Waverly. So our town always smells great. Right on down to right on down to small businesses and mom and pop businesses that

We We really cherish and our community. And so we’re really located in northeast Iowa, just north of Waterloo and Cedar Falls, were a wonderful stop along the Avenue of the saints to 18. And just really enjoy in this community, our organization, we have four staff members, myself, and another director who does our tourism and special events, our full time. And then we have two part time, folks as well, who helped us with marketing, and another one with administrative responsibilities, our books and those kinds of things. We have an amazing board of directors, I’m always blessed every year to have great people serving on our board. And then probably another additional 80 volunteers that help us throughout different communities or sorry, committees or different community events that we host. And so it’s truly a volunteer led organization. And I’m serving in my 10th year now as executive director and really find myself in a great place and love love being here. That’s great. I love doing these shows, because every chamber is so different. So we get a little bit of perspective from different types of chambers and the different work that they’re involved with. So

Brandon Burton 6:13
I’m looking forward to the perspective that you bring to the show today. Thank you. Yeah, so as we discussed, you know, some back and forth ideas about what to cover on this episode. Today, we settled on the idea because you had a lot of good ideas. So we wanted to kind of hone it down a little bit to just some tips of some tricks of the trade rather. So some of the things that you’ve learned throughout your career as a chamber executive, and just some of these things that maybe somebody new in the industry can hopefully pick up and adopt earlier on. And maybe those who’ve been in the industry a while longer, who are kind of banging their head against the wall might feel to take some of these tips as well and be able to implement them into their life as well to hopefully make things a little easier. So we look forward to diving deeper into that topic and discussion as soon as we get back from this quick break.

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All right, Travis, we’re back. As I mentioned before the break today we’re talking about some tricks of the trade when it comes to chamber work. And I imagine over the last 10 years, there’s been a few things that you’ve figured out maybe or I don’t want to say shortcuts because I think shortcuts kind of cheapens the idea of things but ways to be more efficient will say absolutely.

Travis Toliver 9:54
Absolutely. And you know it’s great to get on podcasts like this or or get on a webinars are conferences that talk about really big picture stuff. But sometimes I feel like when you just kind of narrow it down and like you said, drill it down to just the little nitty gritty tricks of the trades that helps you be more efficient. Certainly, as chamber directors, we know that our time is precious and valuable. And we don’t get a lot of time to do the things that we really need to be honing in and focusing on. So I thought I’d put a list together of things that would hopefully help others that I’ve learned, and certainly will, will keep improving upon. Absolutely.

Brandon Burton 10:30
So I think it may be best just for us to kind of work our way through the list and tell us how you utilize these different tools, these different tricks? And yeah, absolutely expand on it from there. So yeah, the first one I know is we set up this appointment, I use Calendly as a tool to schedule and to book guests onto the show. And in your quick dimension, the E is Calendly as well. So talk to us a little bit how you use the scheduling tools like like Calendly, to help alleviate some of the pressures in your life?

Travis Toliver 11:07
Well, yeah, and a lot of these are, you know, anxiety based, right. They’re, they’re supposed to be anxiety relievers. And so Calendly came along, somebody mentioned it to me, and I looked into it, and found that I was just really frustrated with how long it took to go back and forth with somebody to set up a meeting. And then found Calendly Sure, there’s other scheduling apps out there just like it. But it really helps to eliminate a lot of the back and forth. And so when you’re trying to set up a meeting, sending a link to your calendar, to your calendar, that Calendly links to, and having the other person choose a time that works best for them, is really, really helpful. In addition, I would also say to that if you’re going to use Calendly, and you maybe don’t want all of your free time to be options on there, make sure to block off other times on your calendar for yourself as well. If you’re working on a project, or you know you’re going to be out for a meeting or something like that, just make sure that those those times are noted on their calendar so that they’re they don’t become options on Calendly as well. But yeah, it really eliminates the back and forth. And I was really excited when you sent me a link to your Calendly. I was like yes, another person that’s using it. Fantastic. Yeah, and

Brandon Burton 12:19
I’ll say I’ll add just a couple things that I’ve learned in using it is one there, like you’re saying, there’s a lot of features within Calendly, where you can set your available times you can say if you only want to meet with people on these three days of the week, because then you’ve got office time or you know, office hours the other time, you can set that. But right. I’ve also learned that I need to be more disciplined in adding things to my calendar, like for my personal life. So if if my kid has an awards thing at their school, I need to put that on my calendar such as an you know that time slots occupied on my calendar. So when someone goes to Calendly, it doesn’t double booked me. Yeah, right.

Travis Toliver 13:03
Right. And if you really want to drill down to Calendly has a feature where you can embed certain time marks on your email to a person. So if you have certain options that you only want to give somebody, you can embed those into an email, and then just give them those choices and nothing more. And that’s very helpful as well. I think there’s also a kind of a polling option, so that you can pull multiple people on an email for different times. It’s just got a got a lot of great features, and they keep enhancing it year over year. And so it does cost a little bit to be a part of, but I think it’s certainly worth the investment.

Brandon Burton 13:41
Yeah, and I want to say, I just got an email the other day saying that the I’m hoping it was Calendly and not a different platform I use, but they’re saying about a pricing increase, and it was gonna work out to be like, I don’t know, 87 cents a week or something increase and like totally worth it.

Travis Toliver 14:01
Totally worth 88 cents that my question about 87 Yeah, 87 we’re

Brandon Burton 14:07
in a good deal, right. So along the lines with scheduling and managing your calendar and protecting your time, but also being available to those that you need, how to utilize out of office to work into your calendar time.

Travis Toliver 14:25
Yeah, so you know, a lot of people only use their out of office when they’re actually going to be out of the office, right on vacation or maybe a conference or whatnot. But I have found that if I that you can also use out of office when you need to you have some time to yourself, again, some of those white spaces that we talked about with Calendly on your calendar. If you want to block off time to maybe do some research or do some reading or just you know, maybe just simply get through emails. You know, putting it out of office on just letting people know that To expect a delay in your response, I think it’s very helpful. It’s, I think, maybe borderline too transparent. But at the same time, it just lets people know that, you know, hey, you’re focusing on something right now, and you’ll get back to them when you can. I think so many times people get caught up in responding to emails so fast and being a part of conversations. And this is just kind of my trick to make sure that emails are maybe a secondary priority, during certain times of the day, so that I can focus on, on things that really do need to get done. And so just just letting people know simply that there’s just gonna be a delay in your response, if you can gauge it out even better, if you can say, hey, you know, I’m not going to get back on my emails until you know, 4pm, or something like that, or the next day, I think that’d be very helpful to to let people know that, you know, there’ll be expecting a response from you in a certain amount of time. But again, just trying to carve out that whitespace for yourself, and, and just letting people know that you’re, you’re, you’re not going to be responding so quickly. And I think that’s very helpful to them. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 16:03
when I think of all the responsibilities that are put on a chamber staff, you know, there’s, you’re getting pulled so many different directions. And if you utilize your out of office response to say, something to the effect of, you know, I check emails between 8am and 10am each day, and, you know, if it’s after 10am, expect a response tomorrow, or, you know, that sort of thing, whatever your parameters are, it sets an expectation because we have become a world where people expect that instant response, and even in an email, how often have you email to somebody and they email right back. And then like, you might as well be texting, right, because the back and forth that the emails Exactly. And in I’ve used a tool called Boomerang. So if you use a Gmail platform, Boomerang is an add on. So even if I see the email, and I can type it out the response, and then I can schedule kind of a delay in when it gets sent. So I can say, send it tomorrow morning. That way, the person on the other end doesn’t think that I’m sitting here doing a back and forth with them. But it gets off my list. And I don’t have to think about that email anymore.

Travis Toliver 17:14
That is a that is a great tool. And of course, Outlook has that ability as well to schedule emails to go out at a later time. And I think for night owls out there that don’t mind, you know, opening up their laptops on their couch at 10 o’clock at night and started going through emails, that’s a great way to respond, rather than shooting off emails at all hours of the night. Some people surprisingly enough, you know, looking at their emails if their phone lights up. And you know, I typically try to, you know, turn that feature off at a certain time of the night, but others don’t. And so if you don’t want to be that person that gets caught, you know, sending out emails that obscure hours of the night. That’s a great feature. Absolutely. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 17:52
I utilize that quite a bit. So all right, good. Let’s get to No, no, but I think it’s important to block your time, you know, to be able to protect certain time and know, I’m going to be out visiting members, or we’ve gotten these events going on, like, I’m not going to be in front of the computer to respond to emails or my phone to respond to emails. And if it’s urgent, people can always call, you know, right, they can still get a hold of you. But email doesn’t need to be the first option for those urgent things. Absolutely.

Travis Toliver 18:21
And I would also mention to to make sure you block off that time on your calendar as well. So it doesn’t show up on your Calendly. Yes,

Brandon Burton 18:28
good idea. So I think this is progressing. Well. So as we talk about calendaring, you know how that translates over into email and managing your calendar and your time and the whitespace. But you had mentioned using Outlook, and I know other email platforms have similar options. But how do you utilize your Outlook to kind of prioritize those emails as they come in to you?

Travis Toliver 18:57
Yeah, so this is what I struggled with for years. I think all of us get an obscene number of emails each and every day from really important information to advertisements and just junk. And I was getting frustrated with trying to find different organizational methods to really get my my emails in a priority list, right? And to try to triage them in some way. And a few years ago, I had an assistant that came up with the idea of using the rules tool on Outlook. I’m sure it’s something else on another platform, but using rules to identify certain senders that might be of more importance than others for their emails to go to a certain folder, and then try to triage that way. So the way I set my email up, and it’s good that we get a lot of emails, it means we’re doing a lot of things. We’re involved a lot of conversations people want us to be in the know and that’s great. But I found myself finding that I was just getting better Ready with emails, a lot of important emails are getting buried under non important emails. And so this was just a really great way to eliminate that. So I set up three different folders, folders, one, two, and three. And this takes about, Gosh, I think maybe one or two months to really get implemented. But every day, when you start out, you set up these folders in your inbox or your your your outlook. And every day you go into your inbox, and each person that sends you an email, you’ve got to really think about how important that sender is to you. And so if it’s a board chair or board member of staff member, the mayor, the city administrators, somebody from, you know, some key stakeholder, a CEO of a large investor or something like that, I find those people to be you know, people that I really probably need to get back to pretty quickly. And so I set up in roles that all their emails, go directly into folder number one. Folder number two is folks on the secondary level that you know, people that don’t necessarily need an immediate response or don’t usually send as important information as others. But you still want to get back to you in a timely manner. Those folks go into folder number two. And then honestly, folder number three just ends up being mostly the rest of the emails, which usually is newsletters from other chambers or other organizations that you’re involved in, in your community, different businesses that might be sending out periodical emails, those go into folder number three, and fold number three, honestly, it gets checked maybe once a week, maybe even twice a month, sometimes just depending on how much time you really have. And so I have found that triaging my emails in this fashion really helps me to prioritize my emails by the sender, and how important that that person is for me to get back to so then when I open up my laptop in the morning, I don’t go right to my Inbox folder, I go to my number one folder, and I work through all those emails first, then I go to number two, and then knowing that most of the E newsletters and advertisements Go to Folder number three, I will then actually after number two, go back to the Inbox folder. See if there’s anybody new that’s emailed me that needs to be assigned a folder. And then honestly, the rest of the emails that are in that initial Inbox folder, are just usually junk. And so I just go through a deleting spree, and then get back to the other folders to go through more emails, it has lessened the anxiety of having hundreds if not 1000s of emails sitting in my inbox, especially after you come back from a time off or a vacation or a conference. It’s just a really helpful tool to be able to manage your emails easily and, and, and even my board members and folks that I’ve put in the folder number one have mentioned Wow, it’s so great that you’re getting back to me in a in a better in a timely fashion. And, and that that made me very, very happy that I was that the process was working and and I’m able to to manage my emails better. Yeah.

Brandon Burton 23:10
So just maybe a personal question in that folder. Number three, yeah, those are ones maybe once a week, maybe twice a month you get to? What’s your thoughts on unsubscribing? From some lists?

Travis Toliver 23:27
Well, yeah, absolutely. If you’re if you if it’s information that you’re really not reading about or don’t need, certainly unsubscribe for sure. But I do enjoy sifting through just newsletters and updates from other organizations, other chambers that I’m on their email list for because we’re always looking to steal rip off or duplicate ideas, right? So but I tried to just, you know, kind of skim through those and get that information. And then and then delete. But yeah, I don’t unsubscribe too much, unless it’s something that I just absolutely will not use or will not read. And I don’t know how in the world I got on their email list. So just unsubscribe and tick them off. But, but honestly, you know, go through, and I really try to make it a point to have that folder empty by the end of the month. I’ll let it build up. But I do take off some certain times of the day or even at night. Just kind of sift through those emails, see if there’s any pertinent information, I need to gather some ideas or anything from other organizations. And then then let them go. Yeah, that’s good.

Brandon Burton 24:30
And I think we can have a whole nother discussion about how to get your chamber newsletter to end up in folder number one for people instead of folder number three, okay.

Travis Toliver 24:38
There’s a way to do that. That’s absolutely true. Yeah.

Brandon Burton 24:41
So are there any newsletters or things like that, that may be by default would be a folder number three type of folder, but you tend to put in a folder one or two because the value that’s provided? Yeah,

Travis Toliver 24:55
for sure. Are a lot of our state organization. As you mentioned earlier in my bio, the Iowa Association chambers of commerce, which I used to be a board member for, they have great information, great little tidbits or tips, kind of what we’re talking about right now tips of the trade. But also I need to know about, you know, different roundtables or conferences coming up that I should be aware of. So I think organizations that are a little bit closer to home, tend to fall into folder number two, certainly, that US Chamber of Congress, certainly, if you’re a member of that organization, a lot of great information, that’s a folder number two. And so and then certainly, if there’s any organizations that you’re you know, a board member for or related to in any way, you want to make sure that you’re staying up to date on those, those will get tossed in the folder number two, but I mean, really, it is a it is a small amount that gets sent to Folder number two, you really got to be diligent about that. Because, again, you want to value your time and make sure that it’s being used appropriately. And so I would say that if there’s an E newsletter out there from an organization that you find extremely helpful, and you love reading, and it’s just a must have in your inbox. Yeah, put that in folder number two, for sure. Or even maybe even folder number one, but I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t get on the kick of doing too many of them, or else all you’ll be doing is reading newsletters all day long. Right?

Brandon Burton 26:21
Right. So hypothetically, if you were to get an email Tip of the Day from Harvard Business Review, which, which folder would that end up in for you,

Travis Toliver 26:33
that actually goes into folder number one, because I really enjoy reading those. And so yeah, that’s our next item on the list. If you’re a leader like me, that really enjoys learning more about just better management skills, HR skills, those kinds of things. Subscribe, please, please, please subscribe to the Harvard Business Review manager Tip of the day, it’s really easy, you get a you get a email, I think it’s like around five or six o’clock in the morning. And it’s like one of the first emails that I read. And it is just a fantastic little nugget each and every day of how to improve your management skills, your HR skills, just so many different scenarios that they put in front of you with great solutions, great ideas on how to combat different situations in our professional lives. And so as we continue to try to grow and foster good and better leaders, not only in our field, but in all areas of the business industry. I feel like if you’re not subscribed to the Harvard Business Review manager Tip of the day, then you’re really missing out on some really great free information. In fact, this is gonna sound like I’m a hoarder. But I really do keep all those emails, I drag them into another folder, just specifically for that, because if I get into a situation, and I’m looking for advice, or resources, that’s one of the first places I’ll go into, I’ll go into that folder. And I’ll type in maybe some keywords that will bring up emails that in the past that have addressed, maybe the issue that I’m confronting, and get some really great tip ideas. So it’s become kind of a little email storage of management and HR knowledge for me that I just keep right there in that folder.

Brandon Burton 28:13
Now, that’s a good exercise showing the value that you’re getting out of that, that email newsletter, right that absolutely. So being able to have that bank, that library to be able to go back to and topics arise. And like I know I read something about this and the Harvard Business Review email and you go search for it. And that’s great. Yeah, so great, great tip to share. What other kind of tips or tricks of the trade or we may be missing or, or didn’t touch on?

Travis Toliver 28:48
You know, I think one that I had on the list, I think it was the last one that we were going to talk about. This has nothing to do with our devices or anything like that. But during COVID I found I was looking for a way to gather some folks on zoom that could be kind of like an advisory council for me to bounce ideas off of you know how to better manage the crazy situation that we were all in. From a financial standpoint, marketing, from all different aspects. I didn’t want to bother my board because my board you know, we meet already once a month and they’re busy with their own their own lives. But I came up with the idea of reaching out to all my passport chairs that I could get in contact with and ask them if they would sit on an advisory council for me as the executive director and just meet so we can talk share ideas and and come up with some some some really great solutions. I found that these people are still highly invested in our organization even though they have not been directly so She had with it for a very long time, most of them are retired, most of them are, have a lot of free time on their hands. But at the same time, they still have a heart for our organization, you know, at one point they lead our organization. So they have to, obviously have an appreciation for for what we do. And so to reengage those, those individuals back into our organization, just by simply me asking them for their help, for their knowledge and their advice. And their experience has been extremely helpful. And so I would strongly suggest to any chamber director that if you are in need of a, of a little Council of people to just directly advise you, you know, reach out to your passport chairs and bring them together. And we have, you know, we don’t meet regularly, I’ve tossed this idea out to the other chamber directors who have then started meeting regularly with this group. But even if it’s as needed, just to reengage those folks and make sure that they’re involved in the organization that, obviously at one point they, they were a passionate leader for, I think is, is really special. And so I really covet my relation, in my relationships with with all those past board chairs. And then in turn, it gets them re involved again, and they get updated on what’s going on. And most of them have re signed up for our E newsletter to make sure that they’re getting into the to the organization, a lot of them are individual investors in our organization, they continue to be involved that way as well and supporting us. And so it’s been a really great tool to have, especially during that crazy time when we just were getting fed information like a fire hose and didn’t really know what to do or which way to turn. Those folks really helped me to stay grounded and push the the organization forward in uncertain times.

Brandon Burton 31:47
I love that idea. Because otherwise, what do you do with these past board chairs who have such a love for the community and the organization and everything else, they’ve been so involved, and then you’re just gonna let them go by the wayside? Like I mean, it makes a lot of sense to gather them together. And, and I like the way you approach it is having them be your advisory committee. So it doesn’t have to be a regular meeting. But when something comes up, you’re like, Oh, this is a tough situation. You can bounce it off them get some good sound advice. The one thing that comes to mind with this idea is, how would you I don’t know if it’s ever come up. But I can imagine maybe at some point, maybe the current Board Chair feels like, Hey, I’ve got a vision, I want to take this organization, you’re just listening to the voices of past board chairs. How would you address that? If that were to come up? Has that ever been a thought?

Travis Toliver 32:41
I’m actually it really hasn’t. But I do involve my current Board Chair in those meetings.

Brandon Burton 32:47
There you go. That’s a good way to overcome it. Yeah, absolutely.

Travis Toliver 32:51
And so you know, when it comes to the strategic planning, and those kinds of things, I think having that current board chair, you know, also talking with the past board chairs, not only get some, some gives some great information, but also gets some great feedback as well. And certainly an earful of what worked and didn’t work back in somebody else’s day. And it just, you know, I think tapping into those past experiences, really helps not only myself, but certainly our current board chair, in being able to shape their their thoughts about the future of our organization. And, again, I’ve been very blessed to have really great passionate leaders who have wanted nothing but great success, for the things that we do. And it’s been amazing. And I don’t know if I’d be interested to know if other board, other chamber directors feel this way. But I feel like with each board chair that I’ve had, over my tenure has brought their unique set of skills to the forefront, with whatever situation is going on with our organization, it just feels like the right timing, to have that person in that seat. On that year, when there has been an issue that has come up or some kind of obstacle in the way or project to be done. I’ve always had the right person in that chair to basically hone into one of their amazing skills to be able to see the organization through that. That situation, whatever it is. And so yeah, I just I think engaging past board chairs, along with our current board chair is a great thing. And then the current Board Chair knows they’re going to become a member of that group down the road not too far away. So it’s good for them to get involved as well. Oh, it’s

Brandon Burton 34:35
a great training ground and it’s a good way of being able to pass along culture to you better you’re not standing alone as that current Board Chair you’ve got to support as well. They’re in essence Advisory Council for the current board chair as well. So

Travis Toliver 34:49
absolutely. And I believe to that if we as directors move on to something else. The incumbent board, sorry chamber Director will find that very helpful and very useful. So I’m glad that we’re talking about this, because actually reminds me to reach out to those folks and maybe get another Zoom meeting set up and, and engage with those folks again, and again, you know, they can be, you know, anywhere we do it over zoom, you can have it in person, I guess, if they’re able to come. But, you know, we’ve found that a lot of our board chairs have have left the community or retired somewhere else. And so doing it over Zoom is just a fantastic way to just reengage those folks. So that’s awesome.

Brandon Burton 35:34
So I know, we’ve been talking about tips throughout the whole episode. But I always like to ask as we wrap up an episode for those listening, who are interested in taking their chamber up to the next level, if you might have any tip or action items that they might consider implementing at their chamber to accomplish that goal of going up to the next level?

Travis Toliver 35:56
And that’s a that’s a great question and certainly falls in line with everything that we’ve talked about thus far. I would just say, from a personal standpoint, just be open to new ideas, be open to to constructive criticism of events of any programming that your chamber does solicit feedback, whether it’s good or bad, you know, we I think So oftentimes, we only want to hear the good stuff, or we don’t want to have people step on our toes or make our feelings feel bad. But I am just one of those folks that I really welcome change. And I want to make sure that we’re constantly improving on the things that we’re doing. And so if there’s other opinions out there about how we can do something better, I’m all for it. And I have a, I have a dear friend, who always reminds me to stay curious. And so I love to ask a lot of questions. And I tell upcoming leaders, whether it’s through mentoring or other things to, to listen louder than you speak. And so when I go into businesses, I say hi, or introduce myself, and just start asking questions, and I listen, and just really take note of what it is that our businesses or our members are saying, and so that we’re going back to the table with me and my staff, and we’re trying to figure out solutions or, or taking input on events or different things that we do and trying to make them better, so that we’re serving everybody the best way that we can. So listen louder than you speak, stay curious, ask questions, solicit feedback, all those things, I think really help us as as leaders, and certainly is a win win for our Chamber members as well. And that’s, that’s, that’s what it’s all about, right? It’s all about our members and growing our businesses and our communities. And that’s, I think one of the best ways we can do that. Absolutely.

Brandon Burton 37:53
I love that listen louder than you speak. That’s a great leadership principle in general, because as a leader, once you start talking, everybody else kind of shuts down like he’s talking, what does he have to say, but if you can listen louder, let those ideas come in. It can help formulate your own thoughts and be able to help you know take the the ideas that other people are offering so they have more buy in to whatever it is that you end up deciding on because you have that extra buy in so great leadership tip there. I like asking everyone to have on the show, as we look to the future of chambers, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Travis Toliver 38:33
I think with each passing year is it gets increasingly more difficult to show the value of our organizations because you know, we’re not selling really a tangible product, right? We’re, we’re selling, promoting and marketing and different events and those kinds of things, bridging people together. And so I think as long as it kind of bouncing off of what we were just talking about, if you can find ways to show more value in the things that we do as chambers for our businesses, for our communities, it can only help reinforce the necessity for for businesses and individuals to to be a part of this organization that is supposed to only really do good for our business community. Right. And so just showing the value, and then telling your story making sure you know, here in the Midwest, we get caught up a lot of times of really being humble and not wanting to toot our own horns. But in this day and age, you really have to tell your story or tell your organization’s story and make sure that your your your the name of your organization or your logo is right out there in front and saying hey, we are doing this for the community and we’re hoping that you find a value in it that you want to be a part of it as well through your investment. And so just continuing to find More and more ways to show value, I think is the the key for the future and the longevity of chambers of commerce.

Brandon Burton 40:08
I love that always, always been on the lookout of how to express and show that value. So absolutely key. Yeah. So Travis, this has been a fun conversation kind of a rapid fire these ideas and principles you’ve implemented and hopefully people are listening, taking notes, you know, hitting that back button a few times and re listening to some of these points. But I wanted to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for listeners who might want to reach out and connect and learn a little bit more about some of these approaches that you take, what would be your best way for them to reach out and

Travis Toliver 40:42
absolutely, well, everybody’s free to reach out to me via email is travis@waverlychamber.com. We really wa VRLY Like behind me here chamber.com You’re also welcome to call our office at 319-352-4526. Or if you happen to be in northeast Iowa drop in and say hi, we’re downtown Waverly 118 East Bremer Avenue. And we would love to chat with you for a few minutes and show your community. But yeah, I’m always open to people emailing me and asking questions. And in turn, hopefully I can learn something from them as well. That’s

Brandon Burton 41:21
right, that email might end up in folder number three, but he’ll get back to you in the next couple of weeks. So there’s full transparency here. Right? Exactly. I love it. I love it. You got to stay on top of things and be able to take control of your time so you can be as effective as possible. So absolutely, absolutely. Well, I will get all that in our show notes for this episode make it easy for people to connect with you. But Travis, I want to thank you for spending time with us today here on chamber chat, podcast and for sharing all these tricks of the trade and things that you’ve learned through your experience. So thank you for being with us today.

Travis Toliver 41:56
Well, thank you for having me, Brandon. Appreciate it. And thank you for what you do for our industry. We appreciate it.

Brandon Burton 42:02
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Engaging the Younger Generation with Sarah Sladek

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your hosts Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

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Let’s hear from Becky Womble, President of the Bastrop Chamber to hear about her experience with Community Matters.

Becki Womble 1:03
I’ve been using Community Matters for probably six or seven years now. And in a previous life, I sold commercial printing so I can highly recommend Community Matters because it’s a complete turnkey job for any busy chamber exec and it’s a wonderful, beautiful printed product whenever you’re finished. And I just I’m very sold on Community Matters. And with a printing background I just big endorsement from me.

Brandon Burton 1:44
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Our guest for this episode is Sarah Sladek. Sarah has been referred to as a social equity expert and recognized as both a global leader in strategy and talent economy influencer, organizations worldwide have relied on her insights to plan their futures foster cultures of relevance and belonging and realize growth. Sarah studies belonging through the lens of social change and generational influence alongside trends and shifts in organizational cultures, workforce development, consumerism and economics. She refers to this comprehensive approach as next gen intelligence. Using this approach, Sarah has successfully turned organizations around bringing them to a place of increased relationship building and revenue generation. She is a founder and CEO of XYZ University, a training and consulting firm advising organizations worldwide. She is an author of six books as well. In addition, Sarah is a web show host podcaster, one of my own heart member of Forbes, Business Council, and contributing writer for boardroom magazine. She was recently named to the Global list of women who advanced associations, and she’s prominently featured in the jobs of tomorrow Docu series, currently streaming on Tubi. Her expertise has been prominently featured in international media, and she’s keynoted events throughout the United States, Canada, Australia and Europe. We’re excited to have Sarah with us today here on Chamber Chat Podcast, I’d love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the Chamber Champions who are out there listening and to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better.

Sarah Sladek 3:46
Oh, fantastic. It’s an honor to be here, Brandon, and hello, Chamber Champions. I like that little saying, because if you work for a chamber, you have to be a champion. I’m saying that because something about me. I started out my career, one of my first jobs was working for a chamber. It was a hot mess. And that kind of set me on the trajectory that I’m on now in terms of my career. And then one other interesting thing I will share about myself is just a few weeks ago, I was invited to the White House for an inaugural Business Leaders Summit. So that was kind of cool.

Brandon Burton 4:26
Nice. That is exciting. That is really cool. So I’m curious and I’m sure listeners are curious. What what kind of role did you have when you started in your career at at a chamber? What were you doing?

Sarah Sladek 4:38
Yes, I was the Director of Media and Communications. And, and this was in I’m gonna date myself just a little bit here. But this was in bridging late 1990s, early 2000s. So it was kind of a crazy time anyway, you know, we We’re seeing at that time, a lot of people were saying, Oh, are these Gen Xers, they are not joiners, they’re very difficult. We were seeing technology really start to take off, I went to a couple of ACCE conferences, and one of them they talked about, oh my gosh, we’re gonna have this fandangled new thing and a couple of years, you’re gonna have a computer in the palm of your hand. And everyone went, Oh, my gosh, what, you know, crazy like no way. That’s a joke, like people thought that’s not real.

Brandon Burton 5:33
shapers are saying take it back. Take it

Sarah Sladek 5:37
back. Exactly, exactly. So it’s just a time of transition, there was less staff turnover, and it was just, it was just a time of change. Really,

Brandon Burton 5:46
that is a lot of change going on at that time. So I’m trying to put myself in your shoes, that timeframe. And in that role director, media communications, that’s a lot crossing your plate at that time that’s new, and trying to digest and understand, which probably set you up well, for the career path you’re in now with being able to see things through that lens. So why don’t you tell us a little bit about what you do with XYZ University? And just kind of a little bit of your background? Maybe we didn’t touch in the bio, just to help set the stage for our conversation today.

Sarah Sladek 6:20
Sure, absolutely. So yes, I can really harken back to that experience at a chamber. Because I had a light bulb moment while I was working for the chamber where I kind of thought to myself, Okay, wait a second, where are all the young professionals? Why are we struggling to get younger members involved? Everyone on our board is over the age of 50. And I just had this moment where it was like, Wait a second, if we are really intentional about succession planning, what’s that mean for the future of our organization. And where we were also at that time, there was a lot of buzz around our member companies saying, Gosh, we’re having a hard time engaging in talent. And so that seemed like a big problem that the chamber at that time should be helping to solve. But in any case, I kind of had the proverbial pat on the head that Oh, sir, it’s very interesting thinking about succession planning and the next generation, but we don’t really have to worry about those things. And I was convinced we didn’t need to worry. So fast forward, I started my own business called XYZ University XYZ standing for generations, X, Y, and Z University, meaning we do a lot of research training on this topic of what organizations and communities need to do to engage the next generation. And that, of course, has burgeoned into a real challenge for a lot of organizations. And so that’s what I do.

Brandon Burton 8:02
Yeah, absolutely. That’s awesome. So one thing that you really touched on that kind of struck a chord with me is when you talk about that, as a chamber, say we’re really struggling to engage the younger generation or even as a board wipe, you were noticing they’re all over 50. And I think chambers, for the most part, I think, have taken a hard look at the board and trying to especially through the lens of diversity, equity and inclusion, they’re trying to make sure that the board represents the greater business community. I think I’ve seen a lot of chambers making adjustments to have younger board members on there. But as far as the overall membership, that still tends to be a little bit of a struggle in trying to resonate, what’s your the value proposition is that their chamber to this younger generation, who, maybe they’re starting off without a lot of funds, maybe they’re trying that they’re an entrepreneur trying to do it all on their own? Maybe they don’t realize that they need a team yet. Maybe it’s the language that’s being communicated to them it could be a whole slew of different things that are missing the mark with this younger generation. This I’m excited to dive in deeper on this topic with you today as we dig in on engaging the younger generation going forward. So we will dive into this as soon as they get back from this quick break.

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All right, Sarah. So I I teased it before the before the break there that we’re talking today about engaging the younger generation. So from the chamber lens, from the experience, you’ve seen from the things that you’ve gathered throughout your career with with XYZ University? What are some of those ways that a chamber can really focus in on that younger generation? And? And is it the language they’re using is the way they’re communicating? Is it the value proposition? What what are those things that they need to be mindful of when trying to attract and speak to the younger generations?

Sarah Sladek 12:18
So it’s all of the above. And we could spend probably hours talking about this, but I’m going to try to boil it down to just a couple of things. One is, I think chambers, membership organizations overall, just need to be very intentional about making room for young people. So I’ll give you an example. Um, well, we have one person under 30 that sits on our board. It’s, but that’s not enough, right? It’s like, we think we can just check a box and be done. But no, what we have realized over time, is that radical change is needed in order to create room for younger generations and actually succeed at engaging them. So what I find in a lot of organizations, is it number one, there’s a lot of guessing, and a lot of stereotyping. Well, we have a young person in our firm, so I think all young people want this, I have a kid this age, and they’re so into this. And so this is what we should do. And so they you know, rather than put the time in to organize a focus group, I think tank, do interviews, do surveys, do the actual research, to find out what young people want. There’s just like guessing, and often when we’re just guessing or not making the right choices. So that’s one thing, you know, knowing for sure what young people want, being intentional about outreach should be the second thing, and actually creating room for them. And that means making sure that young people actually have a voice and the seat at the table. And that, you know, it’s not limited to one or two people who are younger, but actually being intentional about what’s our outreach, what’s our strategy, to begin to engage new people, new voices. So

Brandon Burton 14:18
I think that’s important. And one thing, a question that came to mind, because you talked about a lot of guessing and stereotyping that goes into addressing the younger generations. And instantly, I thought, you know, what I observed with some younger generations, I thought Hold on a second. What is the difference between observing the younger generation and stereotyping the younger generation? I think there’s a difference there. But I think it’s a fine line for sure, where you take the one experience or a couple experiences of observation and apply it across the board. One of the things that I have observed is it seems that the younger generations There’s a lot more things for them to be interested in, there’s a lot more things vying for their attention and their time. And to be able to try to grasp a little bit of that attention when there’s so much going on, I think is some of the struggle. Is that something that you’ve observed? Or am I am I applying a stereotype? I don’t know. No,

Sarah Sladek 15:24
no, no, no, it’s so true. We’ve moved into an era where time Our time is our greatest commodity, it’s one of the only things we can actually control, who we spend our time with how we spend our time, whether it’s a valuable use of our time, according to our opinions and experiences. And that, you know, we we started to covet our time and really try to manage it. When things when more technology took hold, and no society started to feel like it was spinning out of control, we had more awareness of what was going on in the world because of access to more information and technology than ever before. And so we started to see, and especially during COVID, as well, this, you know, I’m going to covet my time and hold it dear and precious. And absolutely, there is more competition than ever before, it is easier than ever, for someone to start their own networking group or their own, you know, business support group, or what what have you community building group? And so chambers are experiencing more competition, which is why it’s more important than ever to be really in touch with your members and constantly asking, what is it that you need want and expect? Something I remind organizations all the time that I think they sometimes forget, is that really the primary reason people join and get involved with an organization, research has repeatedly shown, the primary reason is because they believe you can help them solve a problem. So and problems shift and change according to Career Stage, according to whatever is happening in society, you know. So it’s on the chamber leaders, it’s it’s their responsibility to know, what challenges are our members currently facing? And are we doing a good job at responding to those and attempting to solve those challenges? All

Brandon Burton 17:31
right, well, that sets the stage for the next questions. How do we, how do we engage with them, and in a way where we can gain some of that feedback, to be able to speak to them in the right language and to address what their problems are? And help craft solutions to those problems? Yeah.

Sarah Sladek 17:49
You know, it’s interesting to think about, but we are really not in the practice of asking for feedback. Yes, we serve a but I’ve I often hear from organizational leaders, whether it’s chambers or other membership types of organizations, well, we can’t do too many surveys, we can’t ask for too much feedback. You know, there’s like, there’s a fear of what will people say? What will they think if we’re asking their opinions? Is it too much? You know, so on and so forth. And I think, you know, we’re living through this era of tremendous and very rapid change, which means, again, the needs and interests of our members are changing, and business is changing. And so if we aren’t really attentive, and really in conversation and dialogue all the time, with our, you know, consumers, members, leaders, volunteers, whatever you want to call them, our audience. If we’re not in communication, things change, and then our organization’s already behind. So we have to be anticipating change. So your question was, what are some of the ways we can do that? Well, there are so many ways, it can be quick polls, it can be longer surveys, it can be a monthly sit down with the Chamber CEO and bringing in 10 new members each time 10 People get chosen to come in have coffee with the CEO, and share their feedback or ideas. It can be you know, focus groups think tanks, there’s just so so many opportunities to actually engage in dialogue. It’s just simply we’re not in the habit of doing it. But we need to get in the habit.

Brandon Burton 19:38
Yeah, I guess. And I liked that idea of bringing in 10 new members with the Chamber CEO and have that cup of coffee and just have a conversation. Just listen. I guess when I’m thinking of the membership at general, if we’re noticing that there’s not a lot of that younger generation in the membership How do we reach them? How do we how do we engage with those ones that are not part of the organization already? And I guess part of it is you’re getting feedback from hopefully their peers in that our members to be able to see what we can apply, you know, to the greater business community, that younger generation, but I think that seems to be the trick of how do we reach those people that we’re not currently reaching? And being able to attract them to the all these great offerings that our chamber has to provide? Yeah.

Sarah Sladek 20:32
So I think a lot of times organizations make the mistake of thinking it’s all about social media. And it is certainly not, um, we find in our research with younger generations, they’re actually craving those relationships with individuals, not just social media, yes, a check social media, but that’s not really what’s forging those emotional connections and those engagement practices. So reaching young people really is most effective when you’re involving them directly, as I just mentioned, you know, doing those feedback circles and outreach efforts. But also when peers are reaching out to one another, and it’s grassroots. And then third, I would say it’s being intentional about mixing people up, at least for a time being here until we get really used to having inclusive cultures. So an example I shared earlier, well, we have one young person on the board, which isn’t enough, you know, and yes, we’re making strides in these areas. But it needs to be really, really intentional and strategic, and really a commitment. So a best practice I often share is an organization that changed their bylaws, and said, from here on out, at least 30% of any decision making group, whether that’s a council, a committee, a board, whatever the case may be 30% need to be comprised of individuals that fit into that young, professional category for this organization. It was we want people within their first five years of a career. But it could be a little longer than that. It just depends on your chamber, and what is the right fit. But by changing those bylaws, you’re putting a stake in the ground, and you’re saying, this is important, this is a priority. Community Building is important. And then you’re bringing people together in there, you know, you have experienced leaders, learning from very new leaders, you’re getting that diversity of thought going, you’re learning and teaching from one another, you’re creating empathy for one another, building relationships with one another. But also, we find that the more diverse cognitively, which includes age diversity, and more diverse groups in leadership roles are considerably more innovative. And when you have all these voices represented, you’re able to really truly represent the best interests of the chamber going forward and innovate, to some of the challenges that face the organization together. So good stuff, good stuff, and we but we just need to make the effort to say no, this is important. And we’re actually going to take the extra step of revamping some of our methodologies and practices to make room for young people.

Brandon Burton 23:44
I like the example of changing the bylaws and having a clear definition of what this these younger leaders, the younger generation are, because the question coming to my mind was, okay, if you’re 65 As a board member, and you’re like, we need some more young blood, and you get the 45 year old, because that’s younger than 65, right? It’s missing the mark on the 25 year old who’s there that’s got great ideas. So having these different segments, but I like the idea of saying somebody within the first five years of their career, I think is a great way of framing that. Instead of saying we need so many under 30 That may not be the right marker, and depending on the community, depending on who the person is. So there’s different ways you can frame that. I think I always, always give that little disclaimer with when it comes to changing bylaws, make sure it’s something that’s sustainable, right? Because this is the way that your organization runs. So think through that clearly that if you say a certain age demographic to make up your board or these decision making groups, make sure it’s sustainable going forward.

Sarah Sladek 24:54
And I don’t think it’s a bad idea to also Bringing outside perspectives. Not everyone on the board has to be a quote unquote member, it’s also good to get some new ideas or if you’re uncomfortable with having them on the board, then bring in some guests occasionally, whether they’re guest presenters or guest observers, or having a ancillary focus group that meets with report whatever, they, you know, get creative. But whenever we’re literally in an echo chamber, just continually hearing the same ideas tossed around, we can get in these ruts, you know, and we get overly comfortable doing more of this thing. So anything that and young people will push you out of that comfort zone, hopefully, but also outside perspectives. You know, and I, obviously, in chamber world, it’s a great practice when boards go to other cities, and they’re learning from other but you know, and some of those inner city leadership visits, so cool. But you can do something similar within your own community, too. And then you’re also fostering those relationships outside of your network and getting insights about why people haven’t joined and forging those relationships. And now all of a sudden, people are rethinking that decision not to be involved.

Brandon Burton 26:23
Yeah, I like the idea of bringing in guests to a board meeting. And the thought that I had is maybe it’s a committee of young professionals, that you bring in on a maybe it’s a quarterly basis, maybe it’s twice a year, once a month, whatever the interval is, make it a regular thing to bring them in and say, what are some of the things that you’re saying now, what are the things we need to be aware of try to draw on that experience, and let them feel valued that they’re bringing, you’re bringing them in, they’ve got a seat at the table, hopefully, there’s other people in their same age demographic that are on the board as well. But to be able to bring in that combat committee of sort, to be able to have those different perspectives, I think, is invaluable. That’s a great idea.

Sarah Sladek 27:10
And you know, as long as we’re talking about it, I think it’s also key to actually, this might sound really basic, to actually ask your board members for feedback. I have recently joined a board of directors, and I’m just kind of, it’s it’s intriguing, because every board, every organization has their own culture, right. And it’s just been intriguing to me to kind of watch this unfold, especially given my background, um, that every board meetings really present information, present information. It’s almost like a lecture or a teaching, you know, you’re in a classroom. And the board’s asked to vote on certain things, but actual conversation, and dialog is really limited. It’s kinda like we come there for for a class. And then do you agree with this content? Yeah, you know, sure. Okay. Great. See you next meeting. There’s never these, you know, and I feel like, Man, this is a missed opportunity. You just brought all these people together with their various experiences and

Brandon Burton 28:27
schedules. Yeah, yes. And

Sarah Sladek 28:29
tap into that. And not only, you know, because some people might not be comfortable giving actual information, you know, blurting out I hate what you’re doing here. But also, you know, ask for feedback, but also, I think, occasionally, anonymously survey the people on your board. What do you aligned with? What do you not because people will speak up in those private formats as well. And, man, it’s a missed opportunity not to be asking for feedback.

Brandon Burton 29:00
I think if you’re well organized, going into a board meeting, you can do a lot of that presenting ahead of time. Now this goes back to take a step back into your board selection and and how you’re, you’re comprising your board, you want to make sure that they’re engaged members. But if you can do some of that informing before the meeting happens, whether it’s sending the report the financials, or whatever, it may be ahead of time, getting the time to look it over, they might send you an email back, but the feedback or look at this and let me know what you think about this. And then the time and the meeting can really be used to drive something forward to have some conversation that goes forward.

Sarah Sladek 29:42
I and I Okay, one more thing. I will just, I needed a soapbox for this. One more thing I will say is that at that board meeting, in my initial board meeting, I received a board binder that was no joke like eight inches thick like just It’s

Brandon Burton 30:00
huge and wait to read it right? Oh, man, Paper,

Sarah Sladek 30:03
paper Paper, right? Everything printed out. And I nearly had a heart attack partly because it’s so huge. And there’s the expectation or tradition of disseminating this, but every board member got one. And it’s like, okay, that’s the first thing a young person’s going to say is why are you printing all this paper? It is not environmentally friendly. It is not technology friendly. It is not how we do things. Now. It’s a sign that they have really become disconnected from a younger audience as so. Great

Brandon Burton 30:45
point. Yeah. I think if that could be on a web platform where you’ve got topics that could expand, you could do a search for what you’re looking for. Yeah. Yeah.

Sarah Sladek 30:55
Ellie’s something, yeah. Not Oh, my gosh, all the trees, all the trees.

Brandon Burton 31:05
So, with with you being the expert on generations, I’m curious what things are standing out to you that are important to the younger generations right now. You mentioned the trees, all the paper. So yeah, are there other things like that, that might strike a nerve that, that you’re seeing and being careful not to stereotype, but from data and feedback that you’re getting? What are some of those things that are important to the younger generations right

Sarah Sladek 31:30
now. So what we’re seeing is a strong, strong, I’m gonna say among Gen Z, especially strong desire, they’re holding as their organizations accountable. And they want the organizations to stand for something. So, you know, when you think about like, Gen Z, I’ll give you just a little perspective here. But Gen Z is the first generation be raised with social media. So when you literally think about brain development, social development, they’ve always been able to use their voice for change. Through social media, they’re more likely to protest. And we’re seeing that Gen Z’s are really they’re coming into membership organizations. And they’re asking, What are your values? What do you stand for? What are you doing to make this a better place, but they and they really will see through any BS, they are like demanding, you know, things like dashboards. And again, this harkens back to how Gen Z was raised. They were raised when you have social media, yes. But they were also raised with technology in the classroom, like they could go into a little app and see their grades, you know, 24 hours a day. So they learn to kind of dashboard progress. And we’re seeing them bring this into workplaces and membership organizations, and they’re saying, Well, wait a second, how are you performing? Are you successful? How do you know you’re successful? If I come in, and I’m part of your organization? How do I know? You know, all the various ways to get involved and how I will be successful? So who, right? That’s gonna change things, but this, this desire to see and know how well you’re doing kind of thing, and holding organizations accountable is really, really big. Speaking of environmental, I’ve also heard from several now several membership organization executives, who’ve had young people come in to interview for jobs, and ask, what is your stance on climate change? And what are you doing to save the planet? And each of these executives said they were completely caught off guard by that question. And you know, said, Well, that’s not really what we do here. Like, we were a chamber or, you know, we were a healthcare organization, we’re about membership. And literally, in each of these situations, the young person said, then this isn’t the job for me and got up and walked out. So where’s we’re going to see that accountability factor, really, really raised. And being able to not just say we were successful this year through an annual report, that’s not going to be enough anymore. Yeah. So that’s something important

Brandon Burton 34:36
and I don’t know that they need to be huge changes, but as a company as an organization, just to be mindful of what are the things that are important to them? And then like you mentioned, the dashboard, call it the wanting to be able to track progress well to be able to do that you need to collect data along the way. So why not start trying to collect some data on things that are kind of those key into caters. And then you have something to build something from as you need to or as as things evolve. But without without something to begin with, you’re left with your your hands up in the air not knowing what to do. Oh,

Sarah Sladek 35:12
gosh, yeah. So things like value, you know. And along those lines, we’ve seen increasing intolerance to intolerance, right? So obviously, equity, inclusion, diversity, all those things are absolutes for younger people, and they will leave. But also we’re seeing more and more age diversity come to the forefront. So once again, when you look at their upbringing, shifts in parenting shifts in technology, education, all of that, you know, Gen Z was raised having a voice and a seat at the table, they were there, we it started with the millennials, but really in the 1990s, late 90s, we shifted to become a child centric society. So like it or not, we raised children to have opinions and express those opinions and to ask a lot of questions. So when they join, and what’s interesting is we’ve seen the cycle to engagement actually shift. So it used to be you join an organization, or you go to your chamber event or whatever. And if he were below a certain age, you were kind of expected to sit and observe, like, just learn about the organization, you can actually lead anything. Yeah, you watch any observe. And now we’ve seen that flipped on its head, and young people are saying, If I’m choosing to show up, if I want to get involved, I’m making a real, I’ve already thought about it, I’ve already researched it, and I’m making like this. It’s like an extension of my personal brand. Like, I believe in this and I’m so I’m affiliating my name with it. And I expect to immediately have the opportunity to get involved and to do something of substance. So they, they want a voice, they want a seat at the table, they want the opportunity to do things like produce content. That’s something a lot of people don’t know about Gen Z, Gen Z creates and consumes more content than any other generation. So they like the idea of being able to come in and help with content generation, you know, and they want to learn, they want to lead, they want to make a difference, and they do not see age as a barrier. So if your chamber still has kind of those hierarchical systems in place, that you have to wait your turn, you need to be rethinking that. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 37:53
that’s interesting. I was enjoying just sitting back and hearing you, yeah. You all these, uh, good insights that you’ve learned about these younger generations. As we begin to wrap things up, I wanted to ask, for chambers that are listening, what tip or action item might you share with them as they look to take their chamber up to the next level?

Sarah Sladek 38:18
Oh, man. Remember, remember two things, I’ll leave you two things. Number one, you your organization was founded, to represent a community, right. And I think in recent years, we, you know, chambers, membership organizations, as a whole began to lose sight of that. And began to just introduce, you know, really kind of hold steadfast to things like tradition. And we’ve always done it this way. And we need to let some of those things go to be able to evolve, stay relevant, and literally be by the members for the members. And that doesn’t mean just a few select members. That means everyone in your membership community, including younger generations, which would be the second thing I will note, I think it’s really, really important. If you want to create something sustainable and relevant for the future, you got to live in the future. So that means, you know, being mindful of trends that are on the horizon. I’m talking to business leaders about What trends are you seeing what what changes? are you observing what what’s likely to come down the pike and impact your business? Not just in the next year, but in the next five years? What are you worried about what’s keeping you awake at night, but also talking to those young linger individuals about some of the same things, and really bringing in and paying attention to not just why college students are doing. But high school students, middle school students. And the reason I say that is because everything in society has a trickle up effect. So we most of the trends that we have today, they didn’t just blindside us and pop out of nowhere. We saw younger generations, because those are usually the ones that introduce and influence trends, using certain things like let’s just say tick tock, for example. And then eventually it trickles up and influences all of us. So if we can be ahead of the curve, in anticipating trends, we’re not at risk of falling behind. And, and I think those two things are really, really intertwined. If you’re holding steadfast to tradition, if you’re not really, really talking to members, not only your current members, but your future members, you’re at risk of falling behind. And one of my favorite quotes that I’ll just leave you with is from Steve Jobs, Steve Jobs used to always tell his employees at Apple, you know, he used to challenge them. And he’s, he’d say, is the decision we’re making right now? Is this going to position our company, a generation ahead, or a generation behind? Because I want to be a generation ahead. But that’s a very, very different mindset. And it requires totally different, you know, processes and practices, it’s entirely doable. But you’re gonna have to rethink how you’re spending your time and who you’re spending your time with.

Brandon Burton 41:46
Yeah, I love the idea of living in the future. So you can anticipate those trends, see what those things are that are coming and doing that will attract those younger people? It’ll they’ll see, okay, you you’re with the times you understand what’s going on. I love that. So sir, I like asking everyone I have on the show about how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Sarah Sladek 42:12
Well, I think that I see the future of Chambers as being incubators. And I’ll explain what I mean by that. There. There’s a in New York, there is a incubator company, that they’re a design company. And basically, they they evolved out of the needs, they started to recognize that people within this fashion design world had no place to like go and grow their businesses get guidance, also hands on training, share best practices. And so basically, they created this big warehouse space, which you can be a member of, and you go there, and you literally get to roll up your sleeves and work in community, with other people who are trying to grow their business, but at the same time, swap ideas, swap leads. And I just think, Man, that’s a great idea. Like, I think I love what chambers do, obviously, and I worked for a chamber. And I think there’s some unmet needs within chambers and some opportunities for real creativity and innovation. And chambers are one of the most powerful organizations our country has, because they’re really uniquely suited to bring together business leaders, community leaders, government leaders, education leaders. And I don’t think I’m just gonna go out on a limb and say, I think chambers have become completely mired in detail. I think I can get away with saying that because I work for a chamber mired in detail with, you know, when are we having our annual conference or annual golf outing and things like that. And we’ve lost sight of some of the really amazing opportunities to bring all these leaders to gather, to collectively problem solve, and to be a literal space where businesses can come together and actually innovate and CO create. So that’s what I’d like to see for the future of chambers to get, you know, rediscover their roots and adapt for what the current marketplace needs.

Brandon Burton 44:34
I love it. It’s a trend live in the future. Right. VA incubator. Yeah, I love it. Well, Sara, I wanted to give you a chance to share any contact information for those who are listening that might want to reach out and connect to learn more about you your offerings, what would be the best way for them to reach out and connect Yeah, you

Sarah Sladek 44:54
can find me at XYZUniversity.com. You can also reach out to me directly by sending an email to Hello@SarahSladek.com. That’s Sarah with an H S L A dk.com.

Brandon Burton 45:12
That’s perfect. And we’ll get it in our show notes as well so people can look it up there and and say hello. Thank you for being with us today setting aside some time to be with us here on Chamber Chat Podcast and sharing your insights and the things that you’ve learned about younger generations and to help the chambers listening to live in the future and attract those, those younger members, employees, board members, everything across the board. It’s been a great conversation and glad to have you on the show. Thank you.

Sarah Sladek 45:45
Thank you, Brandon.

Brandon Burton 45:47
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Engaging Meetings with John Chen

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your hosts Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

Our title sponsor is Community Matters, Inc. With nearly 20 years in the chamber industry and over 100 media awards presented to their chamber partners, community matters provides the R&R that every chamber needs, revenue and recognition.

When it comes to publishing a Chamber Map directory or Community Guide, Community Matters has a trusted experience to help your chamber accomplish your goals. With different advertising sales models and publication styles, Community Matters will help you create a non-dues revenue machine!

Let’s hear from Becky Womble, President of the Bastrop Chamber to hear about her experience with Community Matters.

Becki Womble 1:03
I’ve been using Community Matters for probably six or seven years now. And in a previous life, I sold commercial printing so I can highly recommend Community Matters because it’s a complete turnkey job for any busy chamber exec and it’s a wonderful, beautiful printed product whenever you’re finished. And I just I’m very sold on Community Matters. And with a printing background I just big endorsement from me.

Brandon Burton 1:44
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Our guest for this episode is John Chen. John is the author of the number one Amazon hot new book release “Engaging Virtual Meetings”. He’s been meeting virtually for over 38 years isn’t could say he’s a pioneer. He has produced over 4000 virtual meetings, including an eight language meeting and the only 100% live virtual conference in the training industry. He’s a certified speaking professional by the National Speakers Association. Let’s welcome John Chen to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’d love to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the Chamber Champions out there listening and share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better.

John Chen 2:39
Thank you so much, Brandon, this is John Chen reporting live from Seattle, Washington. And well maybe we’ll have to incorporate this fact later into the show that I once walked across 40 feet of fire back to you, Brandon.

Brandon Burton 2:52
All right. That sounds intriguing. It sounds like maybe a Tony Robbins type of experience. Awesome. Well tell us a little bit about what you do in the speaker realm just to kind of set the stage for our conversation today and how it’s applicable to chambers who are listening to the show today.

John Chen 3:13
Yeah, thank you, Brandon. And I have been a member of Seattle’s Chamber of Commerce in the past. So I think I know the audience. This is my 38th year of being in business after spending 10 years Brandon at that little software company up here near Seattle for a while and I shipped him products and got two US patents and then I really decided I wanted to do something with that I had my three passions in it which is technology adventure to help create human change. So I created a company that did team building using geocaching. Now Brandon, do you know what geocaching is?

Brandon Burton 3:48
I have kids. So yes, I’m familiar with geocaching. Geocaching

John Chen 3:53
was invented in Seattle, it is a high tech scavenger hunt that uses billions of dollars of satellite known as our global positioning system. And to help you find containers hidden all around the world. And I converted it into a team and leadership event where I was actually able to do 160 events a year brand and teaching team and leadership skills using high tech scavenger hunts all around the world. And by the way, for those who are in chambers in cities, it’s actually a great promotional activity to get people to all the different locations and businesses in your city. So I did that, you know, for a good portion of time, Brandon,

Brandon Burton 4:31
I love it. That’s a great idea, especially localized within a city to really get to know the community and get out there and engage with people in the community as well as you’re doing the scavenger hunts. That’s awesome. Well, as we focused in on our our topic for conversation today, we wanted to focus on the idea of engaging especially as we, I guess if we’re a chamber there’s different levels of engagement. So there’s oftentimes engaging from the stage maybe it’s at a chamber luncheon or annual banquet, maybe it’s at a training of some sort maybe there’s new business law in your state and you’re trying to educate your your Chamber members about this new business law or maybe the engagement is in trying to express the value your your value proposition of membership. So all these different ways we hope to address and talk to today’s we have John on the show to talk about engaging on all these different levels so I’m excited to dive into this much deeper as soon as I get back from this quick break.

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Alright, John, we’re back. Let’s dive into engagement. So I don’t know if before the break I talked about a couple different examples of how a chamber may be interested in in in leveling up their engagement with their membership and different events and things. Did any of those stand out that you would like to address first? Do you want to go from the stage scene?

John Chen 7:48
Yeah, let’s go for the person. Alright, so Brandon, let me know that a good majority of you chambers have back to the in person. And while I wrote a book called Engaging virtual meetings, here’s one of the secrets. The challenges of engaging on virtual are also the same challenges that you have in person. So one of the cool parts here is that I did earn this, just two weeks ago, I earned this certified speaking professional. And so then then the National Speakers Association gives away this designation. And it’s only given it away to 17% of their members. So that the CSP is supposed to designate you as one of the top speakers, I’d really like to share some onstage speaker tips. And I want to share two for chambers. The first one is so key, it’s the first five minutes of your chamber meeting are the most important. Let me say that again. The first five minutes of your chamber meeting are the most important. Now I’m gonna let Brandon guests a little bit like Brandon, why is this so important? Why do you think this is so important? You’re

Brandon Burton 8:55
setting the stage for what’s going to happen the rest of the event? Hopefully it’s a if there’s enough intentionality with it, maybe you can get people there in the room for the first five minutes. I think that’s huge to be able to have people there at the beginning. But I think overall, it sets the tone for what they’re going to expect. And

John Chen 9:17
now you have to think yourself, put yourself back in the seat as a new member. And I’m sitting in the chamber audience, and I don’t know anybody. Right? And in those first five minutes, I’m probably going to make a decision that will tell me and especially if I’m a guest, right, I haven’t even made the decision yet to join the chamber. Most of us in the first five minutes of the meeting will make the choice going, right. These are my people. Yeah, I belong here. Or they’re gonna make the other determination going. I’m out which ways I’ll give up my 45 bucks I registered with I got it. I’m out of the door now. All right, and so so that’s why those first five minutes are so important. So think about All the different ways so a lot of people in like some of the past chamber meetings that I’m imagining I’ve been to a lot of other different ones that kind of stat start out kind of lackluster. It’s like, you know, hey, we’re gonna start in three minutes, right? So just mergency exits are located here in here, right? He’s like you got on an airplane or something, as opposed to, right, you are going to love this meeting, right, coming up next is this speaker, he hosts the chamber chat podcast, and he’s got hundreds of people’s experience, and he’s gonna share at least three of them with you today. Let’s, we’re gonna welcome Brandon Burton, right. So something like that, how you open your meetings should really look for it. And I see this in virtual meetings. But I also see this in in person meetings. And in that first five minutes, you should really think about what are all the different ways that I can bring the meeting to order to bring to attention and saying, There’s something here for me today, like I need to pay attention, and, you know, get the return on the investment on my time and money for being in this chamber meeting. And doing that. So that’s the first one. Brandon, do you have any examples that you’ve seen of like, great ways that somebody opened a chamber meeting?

Brandon Burton 11:06
Um, I, I don’t know about great way. Like, I’m not the expert on it by any means. But what I have noticed at some, like chamber luncheons that I’ve been at is at the beginning, they will give a couple minutes for everyone at the table to introduce themselves to each other and get to know each other. Yeah,

John Chen 11:24
see, now that’s great, because you’re immediately actively talking to somebody else. You’re not listening to somebody talk and not talking. And you’re engaged because you’re meeting somebody else. And you most likely came to the Cambridge chamber to network. So I love that idea. I think that’s right on. I mean, another one, Brandon is invite one of your local musicians, who’s really good, and I have them open the first part for five minutes. And let me tell you, one, if they’re great musicians, people will pay attention to number two, it like changes the whole, you know, the whole mood of the meeting, especially if somebody’s inspiring, or uplifting, or fun, or something like that. So we’ve seen that happen. One of our conferences had the theme of the phoenix rising from the ashes. Okay, right. And so. So we actually had a singer come in, and she’s saying, Rise up from Andrea day. Yeah. And the whole place like everybody, like started, like looking at, like, you could hear a murmur in the back of the room going, This is so amazing, this is the best way to start a meeting. You know, this was like, right after the pandemic ended. And we’re like the first in person meeting. And so it added something to the meeting. Okay, so that’s the first tip, which is, is that the first five minutes are the most important. And the second one is that if you want engagement, Brendon engage, and so have a plan to engage every single attendee of your meeting before the end of the meeting. So one of them is Brandon, I think geniusly said, Let’s do a networking piece. So for the first time, welcome. I’m Brandon Wright, and I’m the host today, for the first five minutes, we want to immediately give you value. So take a moment and introduce yourself, make sure there’s enough time for everyone at the table, right? Take a minute or less, but introduce who you are, right, what you do, and what value do you bring to our community? Okay, go right. So, so now everyone’s talking. I mean, the other one is just walk out into the audience, Brandon, yeah. Or highlight your members might have two member highlights, ready to go and have them talk about their business, but also talk and have them talk about why they like coming, why they are a member of the chamber. Because if Brandon is like the executive director for the chamber, he’s always going to be saying, oh, you should join blah, blah. But when your members say it, it is so much stronger. So one of the things that I do Brown, and maybe this is not for all chamber meetings, but when I present, Brandon, I allocate up to 50% of the time for the audience to talk. Okay, and here’s the reason why. It is impossible for Brandon as an attendee to be checked out, right? checking his cell phone and checking his email. If I have a mic in his hand, and he’s talking in front of the group. Brandon has to be with me otherwise, he’s gonna like look like like, like the business chamber person. You don’t want to know who’s multitasking in the middle of a meeting, but

Brandon Burton 14:19
and you said, you know, walking out into the audience, and I know not to throw my wife under the bus at all. But if we’re at at an event and the speaker, somebody that performer comes out into the audience, her immediate reaction is Don’t come near me. Don’t come near me. Don’t don’t engage me. Don’t talk to me. Say and she will be petrified of the person but it keeps her engaged, right? She’s not looking at her phone. She’s watching the speaker, whatever to make sure

John Chen 14:45
she is she’s going like No, no, no, no, no. And so you know, even the negative engagement is engagement. It’s kind of like bad commercials, right? We would just watch the Superbowl right. Even the bad commercials will talk about going did you feel bad that was that was horrible. So I do believe That’s right. And then the second part as a speaker, there’s actually a good follow up to Brandon, right is that the psychological safety is the other thing you’re trying to build in your chamber meeting, which is that you feel safe. Taking a risk in front of your business peers. And so what you do is come up to as like, Brandon, What’s your wife’s name again? Brandon.

Brandon Burton 15:21
Sarah.

John Chen 15:22
Yeah. So Sarah said, Sarah, right? I see this terrified look in your face and said, Would you like to contribute something? Or would you like me to go to somebody else, and she’s gonna go to somebody else. But I’ll give her the choice. So because I don’t want her to be traumatized at my chamber meeting

Brandon Burton 15:37
right now.

John Chen 15:38
So you know, that’s the other part is to think about as like, I almost never call directly anybody in a chorus, but ox, I’m looking for volunteers. Yeah. But in a chamber meeting, too, especially if for the first time I’m doing this. I’m gonna work ahead, Brandon, and make sure there’s at least one or two people who are going to volunteer if nobody volunteers. There you go. And that way, we know it’s going to be a success.

Brandon Burton 16:01
Get your your plants out there, right. Yeah. So I’ve heard people that speak from stage talk about different levels of engagement. So maybe asking some questions at the beginning to get people to raise their hand or stand up or move to another table if you do this or that. So just getting them to do something as part of that engagement. Where Where would you see some value with having them actually do something rather than sitting there nodding, or? Yeah, so getting them to actually act. So

John Chen 16:38
Brandon, I come from the school of what’s known as experiential education, which is a big fancy way of saying, learning by doing Yeah. So if you were to hire me, as a speaker for your chamber, oh, my gosh, I have a great chamber story. Okay. So in one of the chamber stories, I have something and it’s so simple, right? It’s like a one foot of a screw rod. Right? And it has like, six wing nuts, or eight wing nuts on it. Okay. So the, the, it’s a, it’s a team building initiative, where every table is competing against other tables, okay. And I did this actually as a chamber speech. And so what we did with it is that you the rules are, you have to start with all of them off, then as a team, each person is responsible for putting their wingnut on, okay, and the wing that is like a task, right, and the screw, right is like a process. And then you it was a race to get all of them on and then off. And when you went off, that’s when the time expired for it. Okay? Okay. And I was trying to use it as a metaphor of like high performance business, like, if you can take a process in your business, and shorten the time to create that, then you can create more business, right? And so that you can produce more product or whatever. So anyways, this group does this. And, and the, the, so a bunch of people competed with this, and I think I was using it for customer service or something like that. And so what happened was is, so then I started talking about how to produce it. So one is that this team’s did it. And by the way, the high the energy gets really, really high when everyone is competing against each other, especially if you have like a fictitious or like even a low value prize, like a gift card. Okay. And then the funny part that came around is that when we started talking about customer service, and these groups are like, I kept talking about these, these tips about like great things that you can do for customer service, like try to protect your customers needs before they ask you. Okay, and there’s one group at this one table started laughing like a lot. And I finally had to go to the executive director going, what’s happening? Why are they laughing? Because it was kind of like weird and inappropriate. And she goes, finally, she leaned up to me and she goes, John, they’re morticians. Yeah. So I just told them this tip of like, like, you need to anticipate your client’s needs before they need them. And they’re dead. There’s like, use their first name, and they’re dead. And so it just became really, it was I was crying laughing from the stage, but everybody in the group was laughing and that was totally not planned. Brandon. Yeah. Yes, yeah, that was the stuff that people remembered. And then they actually did remember the tip. So anyways, I’m a big fan of, of if you are going to have speakers, yeah, make them do something, whether it’s a table exercise, talk to each other, you know, all these but there’s lots and lots of different ways that you can do that. And, and then use that, which is you debrief that activity and saying this is a metaphor for something in your business. Yeah.

Brandon Burton 19:42
So maybe we’ll shift gears just a little bit. So I know there’s a lot of carryover from speaking on stage to a virtual type of event. And I know chambers they all went digital during the pandemic. Most are back to in person so I’m still have a hybrid or maybe through the pandemic, they spin up a YouTube channel or regular webinar or things like that. So for those that are still engaged with the virtual type of meetings, is there anything that stands out on the virtual front? One thing in particular that I think of is kind of that waiting that awkward waiting room experience before the meeting starts? Like, they’re, they’re sitting there, they’re like, Am I really connected? When is the start? Like what? There’s an awkwardness? Right? So how do we overcome that and keep them engaged on that on the virtual front?

John Chen 20:40
Well, we created a new word for this right, Brandon, have you ever heard the word ZOC? Word?

Brandon Burton 20:46
No. Word. It’s,

John Chen 20:49
it’s a combination of zoom and awkward. It’s also like when you log into a meeting, and all the screens are black, and there’s no audio playing, and there’s no slide you’re like, Am I in the right room? Yeah. Did I just zoom bomb somebody by accident? But

Brandon Burton 21:04
and you get in a Zoom meeting now, never first thing anybody says? Can you hear me? Can you hear me? Yeah, the same technology on your telephone us to say hello, but a zoom. Can you hear me? Can you see me? Okay? So let

John Chen 21:17
me give two things. So you know that awkward pauses really something that we do work on? And there’s a cool piece of technology that almost nobody knows about? So Brandon, did you know that you can put a video in your waiting room on Zoom? I did not know that. Now, for a chamber. This is what I suggest you do. You could create like the the slideshow or a video of you, the executive director. And you can highlight right? This is the, let’s say, my hometown of Stockton, this is the Stockton, California Chamber of Commerce, right? This is what we represent. And do this is our mission statement. Here’s our upcoming meeting. And you can flash that or you can have audio. And so you’re building your brand, even before somebody comes into your virtual meeting.

Brandon Burton 22:02
I love that. That is a great idea. Yeah.

John Chen 22:05
Now in this other awkward parts that you have, I mean, you know, you’re talking about podcasts and all these other things. The good news is, is that there’s editing. So you can solve a lot of that. But if you don’t have editing, even kind of think about how you went back and been watching a lot of like old TV shows, and like an old live TV shows. They used to have people come out and warm up the audience. Yeah. Because they need them to laugh, right? When the jokes come up on stage. So you should be the same way. Even if you’re not recording, and you do have an audience, talk to them saying, hey, that’s so thank you so much for being a guest on our podcast, blah, blah, blah, you know, there will or will not be chances for you to ask question, you know, you can chat questions, and the moderator can decide to pick them up. So you just kind of talk to them about the you know, what do you have interest? Or why did you choose to log in today for this program. And so that person that ahead of time, can sometimes find some things out, I find that the great podcast hosts will then use some of that content, because now they know it’s going to solve a need for their clients, right? For the for the audience. And

Brandon Burton 23:10
I can see for a chamber maybe hosting a candidate form, you know, for an upcoming election or something to be able to do that virtually to be able to get those questions, but then to be able to have content to speak to and address and inform voters going forward. So great.

John Chen 23:24
You’re gonna do for me, right? Yeah.

Brandon Burton 23:28
Love it. So chambers inherently are their membership organizations, right? So they’re constantly trying to express their their value to potential members to retain current members. What kind of tips or thoughts would you have around engaging on the membership level, to express that value and to keep those members coming and staying with your organization? So Brandon,

John Chen 23:56
I’m a 15 year member of meetings professional International, one of the largest meeting organizations in the world. And I served all the way up to VP of education and VP of membership. And then I’m President Elect now of our national speakers Association’s Northwest chapter. And so I’m familiar with these challenges that we all have as as membership organizations about number one, the attraction. And then number two, the retention. You know, the fact that I’m a 15 year member now in MPI, makes me a bit of a unicorn so I as the VP of membership once charted the memberships based upon the number of people and how many years they’ve been in, and most organizations brand and I think you’ll probably agree with me, right? The like, over half of the members are one to three year members. Right? There’s a churn at the bottom of people who are like I’m in I’m out I’m in and mount. And so I would first start, you know, in terms of that engagement, one is take care of your, you know, five If you’re and plus members, they’re the easiest people you’re ever going to get. Although, if you piss them off, right, they will do a lot of negative damage to you that don’t ever join that chamber. Right? Right. And so I think that’s, that’s one of the key pieces around there is that if you take care of your longer term members, often, everything else will take care of itself. Now the second part, in drawing new members, which sometimes is easier, it’s more exciting, alright, to draw on the new member, because you take somebody who like knows nothing about your organization and talk about the value, you know, you sold them on the value. So number one is you got to sell them on the value. And so you need to go look at your chamber, and say, What’s at least one core piece of value that is worth this yearly membership and more, you’re gonna get a return on investment, right? Because there again, most of them are business owners, or very high in the business. And so they the time is actually probably what’s the most precious thing. So they need to know that there’s this great investment on time. And, and so they think that that’s the part they need to get a new member. So for instance, in our NSA membership, we have a multiple benefits, but one of the benefits is what we call an E speaker’s profile, which is how meeting professionals find other speakers. And the cost of that basic membership is $179. And our yearly membership is only $149. So basically, you’re getting more than the value of the membership immediately. And now every other benefit from us is gravy. So hopefully that’s a good example, Brandon.

Brandon Burton 26:34
Yeah, that’s good. I like that being able to have that one key element that no matter what else, however else, anything else shakes out there, just that one piece is going to be worth the value. I also heard a recent tip, and I don’t remember where I heard it from, but when talking to somebody that you’re trying to, I’m gonna say sell, I’m trying to sell a membership to ask them. What do you know about the chamber? Have you heard of our XYZ chamber instead of just going and, you know, just vomiting everything all over them? Start starting the conversation with what what have you heard about it? So have you? Because then if they’ve if they’ve heard anything negative, let them get that out? Otherwise, you’re going to tell them all the perks, and they’re going to have the Yeah, but I heard this or that. And so let them get that out first, and then you can add whatever the value is and overcome those objections they might have.

John Chen 27:28
So Brandon, I actually want to add my my next top tip. Have you ever read Chris Matthews book called hardball? I have not. So Chris Matthews is, of course one of those political experts. And in hardball, he detailed some of the top political tactics and techniques that politicians have been using for decades. And one of them is called the ask. And you reminded me of the story because somebody came up to me about NSA and and talked about like, they came to a meeting, like four years ago. And they were really turned off because one of the speakers started selling from the stage. Right, which is a is a big no, no, he shouldn’t have done it. But something happened. I wasn’t at that meeting. But something happened. And she goes, I was so turned off like I just didn’t ever joined. And I said, Oh my gosh, right. So I said, I understand. I think I heard about that meeting, I wasn’t at that meeting, I can tell you that we do have some things around that. So what I’d love to do is personally invite you Why don’t you come check it out again. Alright, May 11 is our next live meeting, you can either come virtual, or you can come in person because we run hybrid, right? And I’d love for you to be my guest. If you come I will introduce you around. Two hours later, she came around back to me and she goes, John, you know what, I just want to let you know that I’m going to come to the May 11 meeting and I want to let you know that your personal ASTs made a huge difference to me. So think about that for all your chamber board members. That one of the most powerful things they can do is personally invite somebody even despite they had a negative, you know, experience like acknowledge like, Okay, you’re right, maybe it was bad back then. I’m here now. When you come check it out. And you determine for yourself and my hope is that that’s how we grew membership over 63% last year, Brandon Yeah. 63%

Brandon Burton 29:16
That’s awesome. And I love the idea of having it be a board member or maybe a chamber Ambassador somebody who’s doing that talking positively about the chamber rather than a staff member trying to do is say no, I promise things of change. Let let a member let someone who’s actively engaged with your chamber extend that invitation in person I’d love that agree. This is going to be a heavy question but what else are we missing on engagement that we need to cover? The all encompassing right?

John Chen 29:50
Well, this is good I love that your answers Brandon because you know I teach another class and engagement is called the seeds of facilitation right so at I’ll do as a team builder. And in facilitation, quite often the thing that people don’t talk about or that we think we have too much of maybe here in America is controversy. Yeah, although, you know, people love a good fight. So

Brandon Burton 30:16
it drives engagement on social media for sure. Right. So

John Chen 30:20
why don’t you invite that? And so there’s two things I would say. Number one, though, is again, go back and think about, are you creating psychological safety? Meaning that can a business owner come and talk about a challenging issue that they are having, without people, you know, giving them negative harm for that saying, all right, you know, Brandon’s businesses, losing employees, but where are you know, something like that saying, because in earnest, they want to talk about these problems. So somehow or another, you need to make your meeting safe enough around that and that they can get, they can talk about it. And maybe ideally, then get another real idea from another chamber member saying I’m having I used to have the high turnover, and I got it down to like 15%. And let me share one other two or two of the tips how we did it. And so I think that’s really what you’ll find out. This is what I got a chance to interview Miranda de Santos. She is a certified Association Executive. And she has worked with over 20 associations prior to becoming an and working for National Speakers Association. And she says that the community at the National Speakers Association is one of the best she has seen. And because the community is so supportive, and even though we’re all speakers, and sometimes we’re battling it out for the same speaker dollars, but the way it’s set up, they had called it the one of the founders was a guy named Dick Cabot, and they call it the spirit of Cavett says, there’s enough for everybody. And we should share what we learned. Because we’re speakers, there’s very few of us speakers, that if we share what we learn, that we could all be better speakers. And I think business owners are the same way 10 business owners or less than 10% of the community. But they have a really unique position, again, as a member of EO Entrepreneurs Organization, as a business owner. And I think if business owners can collaborate together, they can do more. Tennessee’s EO did a stat and they said out of all their members of the total of all the employees that they have, they are the 10th largest employer for that state, as an organization, and I think that’s something that chamber should think about, too.

Brandon Burton 32:28
Wow. Yeah, that’s awesome. So as we start to kind of wrap things up here, I wanted to ask about any maybe tip or action item for chambers that are out there listening who wants to take their chamber up to the next level? What would you encourage or advise him to do to try to meet that goal?

John Chen 32:50
Well, we talked about those senior members. And I can tell you one strategy, again, I’m president of, of NSA, is that one of my strategies is that I’m attempting to talk to every member but we’re not we have an organization that’s kind of the right size. And all the Copic is brand, and it’s not to sell them on another year. I just calling to say, introduce myself as the president and say, How’s your how’s your membership going? That’s it. And what you get from that? I’ll tell you, number one, is that 90 plus percent of the organizations that I’m a member of don’t do that. Yeah. And if you do, you’re gonna hear I think, two great things, right. One of them is people complaining, I was just thinking about ditching my membership, which is a gift by the way, you have a chance now to intervene you before you didn’t even know. Or you hear the other part going, I am loving my membership. What’s the part you love the most? And they’ll tell you X and you’re like, Great, let’s do more of that. Right. And sometimes you can even get them involved. Because I think the other part about membership. That works is when you like to going back to this ask not only asking them as a member like Brandon right now, right? We are President Elect had to step down because he couldn’t you know, he’s got a family emergency. Brandon, would you be our next president for our chamber? And you’re like, Wow, and so the asker when he said that, you know, Chris Matthew said this about the house. He goes, the Ask has value whether Brandon says yes or no, sure. Yeah. Because Because of Brandon says, No, at least he knows that out of all the membership I chose him to ask. And then if he says yes, I get a whole bunch of time out of them because he’s gonna run. So I can think that’s the best thing you can do is engage your membership. One of the other things I do is when I call these members, because I’ll find out do I have a role for them? Some of them immediately told me I don’t want to be on the board. Right? I don’t have the time. I’m like, okay, that’s fine. I said, What if I could find you a committee position that was like one to three hours right? Totally self contained, do something that but also showcases something that you do and your job. I’m in there. Yeah. So that’s what I would say is go through your membership and figure out, how can you engage them? Yeah. And if you do that, I think your membership will grow and thrive.

Brandon Burton 35:14
And I think you touched on a great point that for a lot of chambers, there’ll be a reminder, they can think back to when the pandemic first happened. Everybody’s businesses shut down. And pretty much every chamber I can think of, they were calling every business to check in on him. How are you guys doing? What do you need? What can we do to help? And the stories that came back the feedback, they got back the value that their members saw from their chamber by making that personal, you know, extension to see how they’re doing and how they’re, you know, weathering the storm was so instrumental that afterwards chamber saw a huge wave of businesses that wanted to get back because now they see what the chamber does. And to be able to remember that experience, and to incorporate that going forward. Because those members will have that memory to Oh, yeah, you call me when things were really hard. And now you’re calling just to see how things are going now, it’s gonna have a lot of good rapport going forward. So that’s a great reminder that you put out there. Yeah,

John Chen 36:17
you’ll love this to brand new, which is like, you’ll get a lot of a you don’t need a pandemic to have to do that. And one of my favorite quotes is goosebumps don’t lie. And so while Brandon was talking about that, like I had goosebumps on my side and saying that, that was such the right thing to do. And why don’t people do that, like all the time?

Brandon Burton 36:38
So? Yes, yeah, that’s good. I love that saying to goosebumps don’t lie. So I like asking everyone I have on the show, about how you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward.

John Chen 36:55
Well, rounded, I told you at the beginning of this meeting, that I’m a team builder. And I can tell you this too, after 28 years in my career of team building, that the one thing I know is that America in general is getting worse at cross team collaboration worse. Like, it’s it hasn’t gotten better. It wasn’t, it didn’t stay the same, it actually got worse. And so what I mean by that chambers give the opportunity for two or more businesses to collaborate to create more business. And they should do more of that. And they don’t. And so that’s the one thing that chambers can do. And when they do it that I knew though some of them do it well, like a business fair like a you know, a hiring fair, like solving the members challenges. But doing it collectively as a group instead of one person doing it is where I think many businesses and many organizations like chambers can add the most value to their community.

Brandon Burton 37:59
I love that. So as we wrap things up, I wanted to give you an opportunity, John to share any contact information for listeners who may want to reach out and engage with you like what they did there. Maybe maybe have you come in and speak at a state cup at a state conference or something like that, what would be the best way for someone to reach out and connect?

John Chen 38:23
I see what you did there, Brandon. Yeah, you can reach me on my website, engagingvirtualmeetings.com. Again, engagingvirtualmeetings.com. I do host a conference, Brandon, called The Engaging Conference on October 1, second, and third, it’s every October to every year if you’re listening to this later. And this year, it will be our first time that this conference will be running hybrid. And we’ll be showing the best engagement techniques, whether you’re in person or virtual or having it all at the same time. So if you run any kind of conference, Summit, masterclass, or meeting, you know, I invite you to come join us at the engaging conference and see the all the latest techniques around engagement. Thanks, Brandon.

Brandon Burton 39:10
You bet I could see somebody really nerding out at that conference and just taking notes of all the the tech and the approach to driving engagement on that virtual front. So I appreciate it. This has been a fun conversation, engaging conversation. I hope all the listeners found it to be valuable as well. And I appreciate you setting aside some time to join us today here on chamber chat podcast to share some of your experiences. I love the personal stories that you share. But most of all these tips and and action items that you shared for chambers to help take their organizations to the next level. So thank you for being with us today. John, I really appreciate it.

John Chen 39:48
Thank you, Brandon, and thank you to the chamber chat podcast.

Brandon Burton 39:52
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Policy & Advocacy with Brian Francis

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Below is an auto-generated transcription. Because this is auto-generated there are likely some grammatical errors but it is still a useful tool to search text within this podcast episode.

Feel free to join our Chamber Chat Champions Facebook Group to discuss this episode and to share your own experiences and tips with other Chamber Champions.

Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your hosts Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

Our title sponsor is Community Matters, Inc. With nearly 20 years in the chamber industry and over 100 media awards presented to their chamber partners, community matters provides the R&R that every chamber needs, revenue and recognition.

When it comes to publishing a Chamber Map directory or Community Guide, Community Matters has a trusted experience to help your chamber accomplish your goals. With different advertising sales models and publication styles, Community Matters will help you create a non-dues revenue machine!

Let’s hear from Becky Womble, President of the Bastrop Chamber to hear about her experience with Community Matters.

Becki Womble 1:03
I’ve been using Community Matters for probably six or seven years now. And in a previous life, I sold commercial printing so I can highly recommend Community Matters because it’s a complete turnkey job for any busy chamber exec and it’s a wonderful, beautiful printed product whenever you’re finished. And I just I’m very sold on Community Matters. And with a printing background I just big endorsement from me.

Brandon Burton 1:44
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Our guest for this episode is Brian Francis. Brian is founder and CEO of Lumin Strategies, a firm that helps Chambers of Commerce build eight plus advocacy programs through one on one consulting and a signature of advocacy framework online program. Brian’s experience covers nearly all facets of the policy and political world from political campaign leadership on successful bond referendum to successful advocacy as a registered lobbyists. He is past public affairs officer for Mecklenburg County and past vice president of public policy programs at the Charlotte Chamber of Commerce. He founded lumen strategies in 2016. This year, Brian joins the faculty for the US Chamber Institute of Organizational Management. He has a bachelor’s degree in political science from Davidson College, whose basketball program he’s supported since before Steph Curry. Brian, I’m excited to have you with us today here on Chamber Chat Podcast, I’d love to give you a moment to say hello to all the Chamber Champions who are out there listening and to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better. Well,

Brian Francis 3:11
great. Thanks, Brandon. I’m really excited to be with you all today. And you hit on one interest, perhaps interesting thing about me I’m big, big college basketball fan. So the last couple months have obviously been a lot of fun for me, both for my alma mater, Davidson College, but also in the Big East. My son is a freshman at Butler this year. And so we’ve been following them. A more controversial thing about me perhaps one of my passions is that I think we should eliminate timezones. And we can certainly talk about that. But that’s probably a different podcast.

Brandon Burton 3:42
Yeah, you can get on your soapbox there for a moment right. Now, that’s great. So I’d like for you to take just a few minutes and tell us a little bit about lumens strategies, what the company is like, who you serve, and it’s about advocacy, but just maybe in a brief nutshell, to kind of set the stage for discussion. Yeah,

Brian Francis 4:04
probably like a lot of companies. You know, we’ve evolved over time. So we’ve been in business for about eight years, we started as a strategic communications consulting firm, that really dabbled in a lot of different areas. But over the last several years, we’ve really honed in on chambers of commerce and helping them build advocacy programs. And we we do that two ways. One, we work one on one with chambers in a consulting role many times serving essentially as the VP of public policy for their Chamber of Commerce. In fact, some of our clients put us on their staff page as their Director of Advocacy or VP of public policy. And we also work with chambers of commerce through our signature online program, the advocacy framework. This is oftentimes for chambers that maybe are a little bit smaller, aren’t looking for the kind of the investment required to have somebody working directly with them. But what to get involved with advocacy wants to learn how to do advocacy, and through our program, we basically teach them how to institute and run a public policy or advocacy program.

Brandon Burton 5:06
That’s very helpful. And as listener might guess, we’ve decided on a topic for our discussion today to be centered around advocacy since you guys are kind of the experts on that. So we look, we look forward to dive in deeper into this topic as soon as we get back from this quick break.

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Alright, Brian, we’re back. So before the break, when you were telling us a little bit about lumen strategies, it’s obviously a company that you built around helping chambers of commerce and build advocacy programs. Why do you think that advocacy programs are so important for chambers to be involved with?

Brian Francis 7:23
Well, if you think about chambers of commerce, historically, really, the whole reason we have Chambers of Commerce is to help businesses in a community grow. And chambers do a lot of great work around networking activities, helping their members meet potential customers. But I think a core part of helping the business community grows, ensuring that there is a public policy climate that allows for businesses to grow. And really, Chambers of Commerce were instituted to represent business interests in their community. And so from a foundational perspective, I think it’s really important. I think it’s also really important as you talk to maybe your higher investor members, you know, a lot of times if you have a manufacturer in your community, they’re not looking to sell to the community, their market is global. If they’re going to get involved in the chamber, they need a different value proposition. And really the value proposition for them is what are you doing to make the overall business climate better, so their business can succeed? Absolutely.

Brandon Burton 8:25
And I know chambers of all different sizes, you know, they’re in different areas of spectrum, right, as far as being involved with advocacy. So I’m hopeful that our conversation today will help shed some light on different ways to get involved on an advocacy front, whether that’s bringing in somebody like yourself to help with that effort, or just to expose them in ways to to better support those business members that they have. So kind of along those lines with advocacy. I think there’s a real argument to have ag advocacy as an investor hook. Right. So as you’re going after new members, you’re trying to bring in new businesses to join the chamber. How would you see using advocacy as an investor hook? Well,

Brian Francis 9:15
I really do think it is something and you have to think about your high level investors, it is a way to get them to participate more in your chamber and to put more money into your chamber. And you there’s some four boxes out there people will have probably seen when you think about your Chamber members, you have chambers who Chamber members who are looking to get something from your chamber, and you have Chamber members who are looking to get something done. And one of the things we talked about is you we often think about the return on investment for members and a lot of members are looking for that return on investment. And if you think about you know a lot of your smaller members, your local retailer or maybe a residential realtor or a copier salesman, they’re looking to find customers and they’re going to measure their return on how many customers? And how much revenue Did you directly produce for them? Like I mentioned for a manufacturer or maybe even a bank or a bigger member of your community, and oftentimes the longer member longer time members of your community, those who are the pillars of the community, as it were, they’re not really looking for that so much the return they’re looking for is, how much can they grow their business, because you have helped foster a climate that is positive to them. I would also say, you know, for those smaller members, there is a direct return as well in in North Carolina, a couple years ago, there was a tax issue related to PPP loans, that local Chambers of Commerce got behind and ultimately saved small business in North Carolina $640 million through their advocacy. Now that 640 million was 5000. Here, 5000. There, but that was it made a big difference to a lot of small chamber members. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 10:57
absolutely. And I think there’s a lot of examples through the pandemic, and the PPP loans and things of that nature, where you can really see the advocacy efforts of chambers really being recognized, especially by those businesses that maybe were more transactional, to begin with, and kind of moves them over to the transformational side of things and understanding the bigger picture of what chambers can do. You didn’t necessarily use those that phrase of transactional, the transformational, but are there other ways that you can see where you can take somebody from a transactional relationship to more than transformational in this kind of a advocacy conversation

Brian Francis 11:36
100%. And in fact, one of the things I would say is you need to talk about that value. I’ve seen this with a lot of chambers we work with they they’ll have a tiered do structure, which I 100% support, and I think it is the direction all the chambers need to go and if they don’t have one already, but when you get to those higher tiers, the value that the Chamber often puts on that piece of paper is we will give you a foursome at our golf tournament, or we will give you a table at our annual meeting. And a lot of times, that’s not necessarily what those larger investors are looking for. What they’re really looking for, is we saved your company money by helping navigate this regulation or changing this local zoning regulation, or, you know, we were at the forefront of this tax policy change that is making a difference of 10s or hundreds of 1000s of dollars for your business. So part of it is changing what you talk about and recognizing the and giving credit to those people because of your investment, we were able to do this advocacy. And because we were able to do this advocacy, you saw this return.

Brandon Burton 12:45
Absolutely, yeah. But just the examples he gave there, I can see where some members may say I’m, I’m really just not a golfer like that doesn’t appeal to me, or I really don’t need to go to another meeting, like as much as I appreciate the prime table at the annual meeting, I don’t really care to go, you know, whereas if they can look to the chamber and say, Man, you guys really helped us tackle this big issue of child care, or workforce or whatever it may be, then they can really see where the needle is moving with their business with the involvement with the chamber. So

Brian Francis 13:18
absolutely, I mean, we I think we forget, sometimes sometimes it can be a hassle to have to try to fill a table. And so you’re actually making your members life more difficult on by trying to give them something that they really aren’t looking for. Right?

Brandon Burton 13:32
So great arguments for being involved with advocacy, what from your experience, and just reasonings that you can see why. What holds the chamber back from getting involved with advocacy.

Brian Francis 13:44
I would say the first thing and I hear this all the time is chamber presidents executive directors and their boards say, we don’t want to get involved in politics. And oftentimes that comes from a bad experience that maybe they had years ago where somebody said the chamber is too political. And so we’re dropping our membership. And one of the things that we emphasize to people, we’re not talking about getting involved in politics, we’re talking about getting involved in policy. And here’s the distinction that I make politics is about people and power. Policy is about laws and regulations. And I will put the caveat out there. There are some chambers out there who get involved in politics, they have PACs, they endorse candidates. And I would say that’s kind of at the end, you talked before about a spectrum that’s at the end of the spectrum. If you’ve never done anything in the political realm or the policy realm before, that’s not where you start. Where you start is identifying the issues that matter to your members and working on those issues, regardless of who supports them. So this isn’t, hey, we’re going to support this ordinance because the mayor asked us to it’s we’re going to support this ordinance because we had a rigorous process to identify what is important to our members. And they’ve told us this is an important issue that needs to be corrected in order for their business to grow.

Brandon Burton 15:03
Absolutely. And I would even say even some of the pushback that they might have gotten in the past, I think getting involved with politics rather than policy is an obvious reason why they might hear some of that pushback, but there’s always going to be somebody who’s not happy with something, and they tend to be the loudest, right? So if you’ve got 1000 members, or 400 members, and you hear that one squeaky wheel, you know, that’s not indicative of what everybody else is thinking. So everybody else is cheering you on, even though they may not be coming to your front door to patch on the back.

Brian Francis 15:37
You know, that’s 100% Correct. And I imagine most of your audience are chamber staff, folks. And that’s one of the things that we talk about. When that squeaky wheel starts to squeak, we think it’s very important for your chamber to have a member driven policy process where you have a committee that’s developing the policies, it’s reviewed by your executive committee, it’s approved by your board. So when that squeaky wheel calls up the director and says, Why did you decide this? The director can say, Whoa, I didn’t decide this, this was decided by our members, by the people who participate, who learned about the issue and identified it as being something important for us to be involved

Brandon Burton 16:15
in. Right, right. And I think for all the staff to be able to understand this is how you respond when when there is opposition. I think that’s very important. So I can understand your chambers may not want to get involved with politics. But to think more on the policy side, I think would hopefully generate some interest for chambers to get involved. Are there other reasons that that you can see why chambers hesitate from getting involved with advocacy? Yeah, so

Brian Francis 16:45
I think once chambers make the decision, they want to get involved in policy. The next step is where do I start? And where do I find the time to do it. So a lot of chamber executives don’t have experience in the policy world. They, they literally don’t know where to start. And then also, you run into this all the time, especially with your smaller chambers. You know, there’s 1000, things that they have going on, you need to get your invoices out, you’ve got business after hours, you have to plan annual meetings coming up. The local school system wants to talk about workforce development, where do you find the time to put together a policy program and and I’ll say, that’s really where we step in. Both from our past experience, I’ve been involved in the political and policy arena for more than 25 years, we kind of have the expertise of how the process works. But then also, from the capacity standpoint, we try to make it easy for our clients in either our consulting or our online program by providing email templates, draft agendas, really all the work that needs to be done behind the scenes we do for them, so that they can just go out and execute on on running the policy program. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 18:00
no, I can see where where the expertise and capacity could be, you know, hurdles to overcome. Maybe starting with with expertise, if you don’t feel like you’re equipped to be able to handle this, what are some solutions or ways to overcome it? I think every chamber needs to be involved on some level on that spectrum with advocacy and policy. But how do you overcome that big hurdle of not having, you know, the not being fully equipped, or you may not feel like you’re equipped enough to handle these these topics? Well,

Brian Francis 18:32
I think the first thing is to accept and feel confident that it’s okay that you don’t understand every issue in the middlee. Elected officials don’t lobbyists don’t There are a lot of niche areas. And so the first thing I would do is say, look for your experts. So if there is an issue that a lot of members are talking about health insurance costs, and you have an insurance agent or representative who’s a member of your chamber, go to them to look for information, go to the local hospital system. If broadband is a a coming issue in your community and and investing there, look to the telecom providers that may be involved. So within your membership, you have a lot of expertise. And one thing you can do is look to your members to help educate you on their areas of of expertise. The second thing I would do and this varies a little bit from state to state, but oftentimes the State Chamber of Commerce can be a great resource. We work in South Carolina quite a bit and the South Carolina chamber does a great job every week of putting out a an email and a social media post that has just three things to know. And oftentimes, those are focused on policy issues that are moving through their legislature. And so you can often kind of repurpose that content and share it back out to your members and establish yourself as an expert just by finding the information for your members that they don’t have time to find.

Brandon Burton 19:57
Yeah, and that that helps with The Capacity stand front too, if you’re able to have a trusted source, like a State Chamber who’s doing a lot of the legwork, they have staff members who are facing, you know, the advocacy issues, and being able to put that out, be involved, like tap into that resource, but then repurpose it, then it shows Hey, we’re tapped into knowing what’s in the know, and what’s important to you. And, and all of that, are there other ways as far as tapping into the capacity issue, that time issue for chambers with getting involved? Or is that the the main thing you’d go to?

Brian Francis 20:34
So I think those are definitely helps. You know, I would say, if you have volunteers who have capacity, this is a great way to plug them in. One of my favorite tricks, so to speak, is to find a former chair of your board, who still wants to be involved. A lot of times, you know, these chairs kind of they they have their chairmanship year, they’ll have their immediate past chair year, and they still want to be involved with the chamber, they’re not sure what to do next. And so getting them involved in chairing a policy committee, you’re drawing on somebody who has a lot of experience and a lot of leadership within your your organization. And so you can rely on them. You know, and I’d say, your drawl from other Chambers of Commerce. You know, a lot of that one of the important things to get started is developing a legislative agenda. And Chambers of Commerce typically will put those on to their websites. So go around to other communities that are of like size to yours in the state are maybe even a little bit bigger, maybe more involved with it and see what they’re talking about. And use that as a jumping off point.

Brandon Burton 21:39
I love that. It’s it’s always good to collaborate good ideas from other chambers. And and the the idea of using a past chair, I think is is crucial, because they’re intimately involved with the the goings on with the chamber. They understand the mission and vision they’ve been highly involved. And to be able to keep them involved in a meaningful way, I think is a great way to utilize a past chair, that’s a great idea.

Brian Francis 22:03
Well, the other thing I would say to with working with other chambers in advocacy, coalition building is really important. And so sometimes people are like, Why do you still want to take what somebody else did, and I can make some arguments, you shouldn’t just do that, because you want your members invested in your policy positions. So I always say use them as ideas, rather than just taking something old cloth from somebody else. But once you say, hey, childcare, and ensuring that we have more childcare workers is an important issue to us, and we want to work on it, you can leverage the other chambers who have said the same thing to work together. And not everybody has to be the leader and carry all the water on each issue. Sometimes simply saying me to our chamber to supports this can really help move something forward. And the other people who have already identified that issue will be happy to have you working with them, and won’t really see it as you’re taking something from them, but rather, you’re adding something to their efforts.

Brandon Burton 23:02
Right. And I think as far as coalition’s go, especially with a regional focus, if you’ve got the chambers within your county or a Tri County area where you’re facing a lot of the similar issues together, it’s one thing from a chamber from another state, there’s still value that can be found there for sure. But you definitely wouldn’t want to copy paste, you know what they’re doing. And then South Carolina if you’re in Tennessee, for example. But if you’ve got other chambers in your county, that you can collaborate together and really build something that’s efficient and meaningful for your members. I agree.

Brian Francis 23:36
And particularly because we’ve really tried to focus our clients on working at the state level, what we have said is at the federal level, it’s just so big. And the process, especially these days is so unwieldy. It’s hard to have influence. And at the local level, a lot of stuff just happens kind of ad hoc, you know, you run into the mayor, and you talk about an issue and it gets resolved. But the state process, it’s it is more of a process. There’s a timeline that needs to be involved. There’s, there’s a lot more work, that move happens to move something through. But chambers really can have a lot of influence. You’re seeing your state reps, hopefully, you’re seeing your state senators, they’re calling on you for advice, and it’s a place where you can really have an impact. Right?

Brandon Burton 24:18
Absolutely, you can make that impact. And I’d like to argue that maybe it does make an impact on the federal level if enough states are doing it and the broader level can see what’s important. But Brian, as we start to wrap things up here, I wanted to ask for the chamber listening who’s interested in taking their chamber up to the next level? What tip or strategy might you offer to them to try to accomplish that goal?

Brian Francis 24:43
So the first thing I would say is have a conversation with your board. You know, this is really I’ve started by saying needs to be a member driven process and that starts with your leader members who are on your board of directors. Talk to them about why you You think advocacy is important, we have on our website or by contacting me, I can send to you a PowerPoint draft presentation that you can literally drop your Chamber’s name into. And it kind of walks through how to have that conversation, a lot of what we talked about today about how to talk to them about being involved in policy, not politics. What you need to do to get started with kind of the steps are that you’ll go through the process, but the very first thing you need to do is have buy in from your board, because this is not an easy thing to do. If it is staff driven, you really need to have that volunteer leadership on board.

Brandon Burton 25:34
Absolutely. So I like asking this question to everyone that I have on the podcast, as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Brian Francis 25:48
So the first thing I would say, obviously, we know we’re a much more global economy. So the the hometown member to member transactions become less and less prevalent, it’s easy to find a website provider who’s across the country across the world. And so I think there is a need for chambers to evolve, and to continue to provide that value. But I would also say, when you look at the political world these days, I would say that we are oftentimes dominated by extreme conversations or folks who are more at the the ideological fringe. And I think there is a need for a common sense, bro business policy advocate in just about every community. And it’s if the chamber is not doing it, we always say if the chamber is not the voice for business, then business has no voice in the community. And so I really think the futures of chambers, if they are going to continue to be relevant, they have to be involved in providing that voice to say, regardless of all the stuff that people are talking about, that elected officials are talking about, here are the things that we really need to do to invest in our community, to invest in our workforce and to promote our businesses so that our economy can continue to thrive.

Brandon Burton 27:07
Right. And I think you hit on the political fringes, I think so much of that we see on the national level, right? Watch news channels and things like that, where you get in the local levels, you get into local policy and and even state policy. And you don’t see quite as you know, dramatic ends of the you know, the those political fringes that the opposite ends of the spectrum, there’s a lot more in the middle. And there’s a lot more that chambers can can stand on as being that same center and being able to bring people together, that I think that that vision you have of chambers, the future, I think is spot on. So thank you for sharing that. I wanted to give you an opportunity, Brian to share any contact information for listeners who may want to reach out and connect with you or ask for the PowerPoint that you mentioned, to be able to have these conversations at their board, what would be the best way for listener to reach out and connect with you?

Brian Francis 28:04
Well, I’d say there’s two great ways. First of all, you can always email me is bfrancis@luminstrat.com, that’s L u m, I n s t r a t, or connect with me on LinkedIn on Brian Francis, from North Carolina, Davidson College, that should give you enough to find me, we try to put out a lot of content that is helpful for chambers of commerce through the LinkedIn. And so that would be a great place as well. That’s

Brandon Burton 28:32
perfect. And we’ll get that in the show notes as well make it easy to find and, and I would encourage everyone to reach out to Brian and ask for that PowerPoint to be able to start these conversations with your board. They will to get ideas of where on that spectrum you want to jump in at and getting involved with policy and advocacy at your chamber. And, and maybe you’re already involved. But let’s see, you know, how can you continue moving that needle. But, Brian, it’s been great having you with us today. I appreciate you taking some time to deal with us here on Chamber Chat Podcast. And I think you’ve pulled back the curtain on a lot of important topics and around policy and chambers getting involved and overcoming you know some of the hurdles that they might see as hurdles, but to see that it is possible to move, move past and move through those obstacles to really get involved in a meaningful way. So I appreciate you being on here and sharing your expertise with us. Well,

Brian Francis 29:29
thank you for having me, Brandon. Maybe I can come back and talk about Thompson sometime.

Brandon Burton 29:33
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