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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.
Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your hosts Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.
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Our guest for this episode is Barry Phillips. Barry owned his first software company at age 21 and learned to wear many hats, from head of sales to marketing to it. Plus he’s been a CEO a few times as well. The one constant in his career is that he loves to run teams and organizations, and was actually good at it. Ultimately, his real passion is helping others grow. He’s still doing that today, but he’s changed his focus from large companies like HP Ernst and Young and visa to small and mid sized businesses, and he does this exclusively by working with chambers of commerce across the country, Barry’s been able to help businesses make real rubber hits the road changes that make a positive difference in the organization and the lives of its leaders. Barry injects fun into his speaking, training and consulting. He loves instilling new ideas, and is all about changing process and behaviors to make real positive impact. But Barry, I’m excited to have you with us today here on Chamber Chat podcast. I wanted to give you a chance to say hello to all the Chamber Champions who are out there listening, and to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better.
Barry Phillips 2:17
Okay. Well, thank you. I’m glad to be here Brandon. I like that the chamber, Chamber of champions. That’s quite the alliteration you got going. There something interesting about me, I think you mean in the personal sense. I guess stuff that’s unique is I own 17 dutch ovens. Do you even know what a Dutch oven is? I
Brandon Burton 2:39
do? Yes, I grew up in scouting and whatnot. So, oh yeah,
Barry Phillips 2:45
those cast iron pots you you picture the old wagon master with his thing hanging over a fire, and that’s kind of what it was in the 1800s still with look kind of the same with the cooking has advanced quite a bit, and I’ve done competition cooking with those things as well. So I do all sorts of cooking, but kind of getting known for the Dutch oven stuff, I guess, just because it’s a little bit more unique than other things. But that’s something unique about me anyway.
Brandon Burton 3:14
How does one amass a collection of 17 dutch ovens?
Barry Phillips 3:18
Well, you purchased them one of the time.
Brandon Burton 3:21
Is it on accident, or is it purpose?
Barry Phillips 3:24
My first one is I had a brother in law come up in California and bought a whole bunch of them to take back to to people in California. And he got there and counted them and realized that he had two more than he actually paid for. He said, would you take these back to the store for me? And I said, well, so I just called up the store and said, how much you want for these things? I don’t want things? I didn’t want to drive the store was about an hour away, and I didn’t want to do that, so I I just paid for them, and so, well, I’ve got a little might look like cooking with them, and just kind of went from there.
Brandon Burton 3:53
The rest is history, as they say, yeah. Well, tell us a little bit about your company. I know I shared some of that in your bio, but tell us what it is that you do your interest in chambers and the work that you do with them and and kind of help set the stage for a conversation today. Well,
Barry Phillips 4:10
my background is I’m a serial entrepreneur, and I have been doing that for years, running my own businesses a lot, and I’ve worked inside billion dollar corporations and things as well, but I’ve spent a lot of time in training and consulting. And as you said, your bio big companies like Hewlett Packard or Ernst and younger bees are 10 worth those kinds of companies, and had some good success. There really good success. But still, the organizations are so large it’s really hard to affect real change. And so kind of in the post covid world, obviously, there weren’t a lot of folks out there wanting to do in person training and going into corporations to help do things that way. People were pretty timid there for a while, and so I thought to myself, you know, I’ve always worked with small businesses as well. I like them the best, because you can affect real change and much faster. Yeah. And so I thought, well, where you go for that? Well, Chambers of Commerce seemed like a logical place. And so I started playing with some chambers and speaking and doing some training inside their organizations, and I found some interesting commonalities, and that is that most chambers didn’t have a lot of money. I didn’t, didn’t take a lot of research to figure that one out. It was kind of blatant there, but I found that the members really needed the training just as much as a big corporation of probably more people that own small to mid sized businesses. There’s a lot of stuff they need to do that they don’t normally know how to do when you start a business because you love what it is you do. If it’s a restaurant, you are a good cook, and so you thought you’d start a restaurant up, or you want a clothing boutique, you know, you liked fashion, or whatever. And all of a sudden, you find out, when you get into business, there’s these annoying things called people that you have to deal with all the time. And it’s a people business. I don’t care what your business is. I don’t care if you’re a plumber, you are in, still in a people business, because you have to go out and deal with customers. And customers are always human beings. No matter how much AI wants to affect our lives, you still will get money paid to you by another person. That’s how life works. And so my background is really in those areas of helping not I mean, I have done a lot of marketing. My first job was in an advertising agency as a graphic artist, and I’ve worked in and doing marketing and sales and all those things. I was top salesman worldwide. In fact, the people can’t see this, but I’m going to show you Brandon. You see the picture of me standing by that Corvette? I do. They won that Corvette for being top salesman in the world. And so got some background and those kinds of things as well. But that’s, again, a people skill, right? And so ultimately, started sharing that with other companies, and doing my own training and consulting, and have done that for a number of years as well, and just really trying to help people out and anything from that. I mean, they need to know about finance. They need to know about all sorts of things, but usually they have a primary skill set in one area and know a little bit about the other things, but they don’t know everything they need to know to really make their business go. Yeah,
Brandon Burton 7:26
I always think of the example of a dentist who goes to dental school. They spend a lot of time, lots of education, learning how to drill teeth and put in fillings and, you know, do work in your mouth, right? But how much do they get taught about how to hire and how to work with an office staff, and how to file taxes and how to do these different aspects that are important and necessary with running a business
Barry Phillips 7:50
well. And, you know, funny, because I’ve helped some desks, I’ve done, done some training with them, and I remember when Dennis coming to me and saying, Ah, you know, I’ve got all these assistants and all these. There’s all these women in this office, and I just don’t really know how to keep them on track, keep them doing the right things. And as I delve into it, the people in the office are saying, you know, he’s a good dentist, but he doesn’t really know how to work with people and how to motivate people, and and, and that’s the thing, when you are top level in a business, doesn’t matter what it is. You affect way more than you think you do. You just do. And it’s different for people, because they think, Well, you know, things are going well. Sometimes they think it’s all them, and that’s probably not completely true, but if it’s going bad, it’s definitely a big part of you, because most companies don’t die from competitors beating them. Most companies implode one way or the other. They make wrong choices, they don’t stay up with their markets. But all these things are are leadership issues. They’re not staying on top of the things they need to to make the business work. Yeah,
Brandon Burton 8:59
that makes a lot of sense, and that is actually a perfect segue to introduce what our topic for our conversation is today, which is, we’ll be focusing our conversation around what members really want and actually probably what they need, but we’ll, we’ll dive in much deeper into this conversation as soon as they get back from this quick break.
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All right, Barry, we’re back. As I mentioned before the break, we’re talking today about what it is that members really want. So as a chamber of commerce listening, they’ve got, you know, likely, hundreds, maybe over 1000 members. Possibly these are all different businesses. But what are some of these commonalities? What are these things that they really want and that they need, especially as it comes to their membership, and how the chamber can help affect change with these members?
Barry Phillips 11:38
Yeah, and that’s a pretty broad subject for you, for what they want, what they really, really want. I tried to get you to sing that with me, but yeah, no, go. Yeah, they wouldn’t like my singing either. But there are some things they that they know they want, and there’s a lot of things that they need and should want, and that’s where a chamber is really important because they’ve got a one prove the relevancy a chamber has to be something more than what people think of a chamber when they aren’t in one, right? They think a chamber is there to give me a little bit of networking opportunity, and maybe they do a ribbon cutting ceremony for me. And they kind of don’t know all the things that a chamber can do for them, but what the chamber can do for them is the things that they really want and they really need, one of which is training. I’ve obviously been in that world for years and and good training is expensive. I mean, guys like me, not, you know, I’m not saying I’m anything special that way, but people like me that go out and do this, they’re five to 15 to $20,000 a day, small companies aren’t going to touch that. They just can’t. There’s no way they can afford it. And that’s where I kind of came in with my what I’m doing with chambers, was trying to find a way to make that completely affordable for chambers to bring to their members and so but the things that they really want first and foremost, if they’re astute and they’re good leaders, trying to do the right things, is they understand their stuff they don’t know. And they need to understand things about leading people managing teams. How do you get these people to perform? How do you get them to stay How do you get them to be happy and productive? All those things, those are skills that can be learned. Not everybody’s a natural born leader that just walks in and and when they smile, the little twinkle happens on their tooth, and everybody loves them. That doesn’t typically happen. We learn this stuff, right? We get good at it because we’ve practiced it.
Brandon Burton 13:37
That’s so key, because so many people, I think, will try to wing it. You know, they where they it really, what it falls back to is what they’ve seen, right? Yeah, so the examples that they’ve seen in their life, maybe they worked for an employer that did something, you know, this way. So they see that as that’s the way things get done, and very well, and probably oftentimes, is that example that they are falling back on, is probably not the best example. And if you look at, you know, how well were they liked, how well did you know, what was their retention of their staff like? You know, all these different things, but that’s what you have to fall back on. Is what you’ve seen, you know, so as an example for you, and the
Barry Phillips 14:17
first step for them is to realize, well, I wrote a book on leadership. In fact, in the opening sentence is, it’s your fault, and then the second sentence is, what? What is your fault? Whatever it was that caused you to finally read a leadership book. But people have more influence and impact on their companies. Think about that. If you’re loyal to a company, you just love it there. Why is that? Is it because you like the logo, you’re just completely in love with the product, whatever it is, the answer is, you like the people you’ll work with and the people you work for. That’s what makes you love a company, because in the larger organizations, you can find people who love working there and people who hate working there. And the difference is they’re the people around them. And. Leaders set the tone of all that stuff, and so they just got to learn those skills of how to if communicate effectively. They’ve got to learn the basics of sales and marketing. There’s just so many things that they need to do to be able to do this job. And they do have to understand a bit about business. You have to set your business up correctly so that you are in the right tax you know, for you know, most people start off with it. They’re just a sole proprietor, or something simple like that. But as that grows, you know, as one of my companies grew, my accountant said you don’t change. You need to be a Sub S Corporation. You shouldn’t be that anymore. It’s killing you in taxes on yourself, and first year I flipped, I made $6,000 more just on the tax savings from the previous year. You just have to know those things. You don’t have to be an expert at it, but you have to know enough that you can read a P and L and a balance sheet. If you don’t know what those are, you better learn what those are. This is the stuff will make your business work or die, because if you don’t, if you’re just running it completely off a spreadsheet and just kind of winging it, that’s going to come back to bite you, yeah, especially if your company is successful.
Brandon Burton 16:09
Well, in that example, there’s, there’s a time where you need to bring in an expert, you know, your accountant, for example. But before you do that, you need to be able to look at your PNL and what your balance sheet looks like, and be able to see, Okay, that looks like, maybe something’s off here. Or I need to put more attention here. And then, then you can take it to the expert and say, help me out here, because you’ve been able to notice something. If you just, you know, outsource it all to the accountant. Very rarely are they going to come to you and say, you know, I’m noticing some things here. There’s, you’re just one in their list, and if you’re not paying attention for yourself, things will continue to get missed well,
Barry Phillips 16:46
and you hate to bring this up, but if, if a company ever gets embezzled, it’s just by the accountants, because he’s controlling all the money. And some business owner just said, I don’t want to know about that stuff. It stresses me. You handle it. You can’t just do that. You have to have your fingers in it enough to know what’s going on and to understand it. You never want to completely trust those critical things of your business, not that you’re the best one at doing them or the fastest of doing them, but you can do them, you can understand what’s going on. So that means financial is one of those places you start very first structure your company, right? And then understand finances. You need to understand what it really takes to grow your business. It’s amazing how many people don’t really know what their what their product, whatever it is costs. What is the real cost of that? You know, people out there at a restaurant selling food, and if they were to add up all their costs, they’re selling this plate for less than that, it actually cost them to make what are they doing? Isn’t that crazy? What? But you see it on, you know, reality TV shows or whatever. But it happens in real life all the time. If you don’t have a hold of your numbers, you’re nuts. I mean, you have to know that stuff.
Brandon Burton 17:56
Yeah. So you’ve touched on a few things here, from taxes and finances, to HR to I’ll even say the culture within the company, within the business. What are some of these other things that come top of mind to you? Of things you’ve come across people, let
Barry Phillips 18:12
me touch real quickly on the what one you just said? You just said, culture? Yeah, a good friend of mine started a business. He started several businesses, but when he started his last one, in particular, he was just all about culture. That’s all he cared about, was culture. Culture. Culture said, Dude, it’s just you and and your partner that you’re starting this with. What do you what do you mean? Culture? He said, Well, you have to understand culture is how we treat each other, and we have to figure that out, and we have to do it right. And now his company happens to be the largest company in the HR world, or mid to small sized businesses, and they’re in the top 10 in the world for having the best culture people want to be there. He can even pay them a little bit less if he wants to, because they love being there so much. He could probably get away with that. But part of his culture is treating his people well. He does things like, after 40 hours of work, you’re out of here, you do not take work home with you. You’ll be in trouble if you do. We insist that you don’t be here more than 40 hours a week. He gives them paid vacation. In fact, he pays for their vacation. Bring me back receipts, and I’ll pay $2,500 for airline tickets and hotel rooms and whatever He wants His people to have good lives. It’s a culture that’s phenomenal. So that’s one of the things. When you build the right culture, it attracts good people. The people want to stay, and all those things start to happen. So they need to understand that human side, probably more than anything.
Brandon Burton 19:44
Yeah, that’s a good example, a real good case study right there, as far as culture goes,
Barry Phillips 19:50
Yeah, I mean, now that he has 1000s of employees, it’s pretty tough to turn that wheel when you got 1000s of people to do it differently. Yeah, there are ways to do that. I. And then they need to understand what really matters to their people. I ask this to people all the time, what is more important to you, shareholders, employees or customers? Who do you focus on? And I get all three of those answers in a room whenever I ask it. So Brandon, what’s the answer?
Brandon Burton 20:20
Well, I think your employees need to be up there at the top, otherwise you can’t serve your shareholders or your customers, because you won’t have the employees to make things happen.
Barry Phillips 20:30
See, you should put a ghost star on your forehead. You got that exactly right, right? It is people, you see companies that are customer focused, customer focused, customer focused, and people hate working there. I mean, Amazon will now hire you off their website without even interviewing you if they’re so desperate for employees. And it’s part of the culture. Yes, they try to treat customers well, but if you don’t treat the people well, because guess what happens when you treat people well? They like their jobs. They’re happy with their jobs. That comes through to customers. Customers want to be associated with a business like that, they actually get more money coming in and more sales because of that, which then makes the shareholder happy. It’s the only way it works to get all three of them happy is to focus on your people. They actually matter most. Yeah, so you are dead on on that one awesome
Brandon Burton 21:16
I’ve pat myself on the back. Yeah, you should. So what are some of these other areas that stand out to you about what, what Chamber members really want, or what they need that they maybe they don’t know they want it because but they need it to be able to understand, to be able to operate their business. Well,
Barry Phillips 21:35
one of the things is, we got to talk about technology a little bit. They have to understand what’s going on in their online footprint. And you’ll hear some people saying, let’s try. We’ll have an online footprint. Oh yes, you do. If you don’t have one, it’s happening to you. There is conversation somewhere about you going online, and if you’re not controlling that, if you’re not involved in that, then you’re in trouble. Now that doesn’t mean you have to be an expert at social media and all that stuff and and necessarily be doing all those things. You can have somebody help you with that, set that stuff up, give you a great website, all those things. But you have to know what matters for your business. You have to know where the focus is. You know, I think it was John Paul Getty once said that half of all marketing is waste. Yeah, half of our marketing and advertising is wasted. We just don’t know which half. Well, that’s no longer true, because you can actually do testing online if you know what you’re doing and see, oh, that didn’t work. Oh, that does work. And all of a sudden you start to know which half is a waste, and you start focusing your marketing in the right places. If you’re in a tourist business, there are certain websites and things that matter to you. If you’re not in that business, then maybe you don’t want your TripAdvisor probably does not matter to you if you’re a clothing store, but it might if you’re selling things in a tourist town, it might still matter to you, but you have to know those kinds of things. And while somebody else may manage that, when people start to comment about you online, you’re the one that needs to answer. You need to look every single day whether you like it or not, and have people show you how to do it. You need to go and talk about and respond back to people’s positive comments and their negative comments and tell them what you’re doing to fix it and invite them back. And invite them back so they can you can show them the changes you’ve made. All that kind of stuff matters. You need to get your your things set up correctly with Google, so that you are controlling your brand and your name and that you’re on the map correctly, and all those things you can do. But you have to know how and it matters, no matter what your business is, there’s nobody, hardly anymore that go, that goes and does business without checking out a company first online. Yes, it’ll be partly your website, but it’ll be your social media footprint in whatever places that matter. Probably Google searches are big deals no matter who you are, yeah, like, a like Google or not, they still kind of own the world of people searching and looking for reviews and things like that.
Brandon Burton 24:07
Yeah, and I’ve mentioned it before on the podcast, but my background has been in advertising and media and chamber publishing and whatnot. And Chamber members all the time will talk to me about the ad that they’re placing with the chamber, and they’ll want to get into the details of you know, well, what bullet points should I put in the ad? What? What about the phone number? Should I have a unique phone number? And, like, really trying to overthink things, and to your point, nobody does business with anybody without checking them out online first. So you want to put that, that carrot out there that really draws the attention, take them to your website, have a unique call to action, and then there’s a process to be able to educate them about the rest of the things you do. But if you try to bombard with too much on the front end, they’re going to ignore you, and they’re going to go to your website anyways. If there’s any interest to learn more, you know,
Barry Phillips 24:59
and. Again, no matter what your business is, you need to learn what your pitch is. What do people think of you? What is, what is the image you have to others? I don’t care how much you know about what you do and how cool you think that is. Does that matter? Even with what I am now doing for chambers, it used to take me 40 minutes in a zoom call to explain it to you. I went to a couple live events, and that’s, in fact, where you and I met, at one of those, and I, by the end of that, I could do my entire pitch in about a minute and a half. Yeah, I had learned what people cared about, or what they didn’t, not what I cared about, but what they cared about, because that’s one of the key things, is you better be selling what people want, not what you have?
Brandon Burton 25:40
Yeah, they talk about they call it the elevator pitch, right? You got 60 seconds in front of somebody, and if you can’t explain what you do, then do you really know what you do? Do you know?
Barry Phillips 25:50
Because the point is, people are going to look at you, and if they don’t get you, they’re not going to give you 510, minutes to figure out what you are. They’re going to give you a few seconds. And if you can’t hone down what you are, even if you’re a restaurant or something like that, that ought to be obvious. Well, we sell food, yeah. But why should I come into yours versus the other five on the same block? Right? They need to get you very, very quickly. And you need to hone that down any business, even if, again, if you’re a pipe fitter, I don’t care what it is, they need to understand why you and what it is you do very, very quickly. Yeah,
Brandon Burton 26:24
great stuff. As we begin to wrap things up here, I like asking everyone I have on the show that for chambers listening who are trying to take their chamber up to the next level, what kind of tip or action item might you share with that chamber to help them accomplish that goal?
Barry Phillips 26:45
Well, for chambers, it’s interesting because some chambers are pretty aggressive about forward thinking, and some are just trying to hang on and trying to rebuild back from the pandemic and all those kinds of things. But they need to understand they’ve got to have unique offerings that give them something that others don’t have, that the chamber can provide, that they can’t get any other way. Networking is certainly that you need to have good networking opportunities for people to get to know people. But you know, if they’re still in the same room week after week or month after month, looking at the same people, that’s not as stimulated as needs to be. So you need to be growing and bringing new people in. And I know it sounds self serving, but you need a training component with what I’m doing for chambers, for example, you they can’t get any new way through the chamber. They couldn’t afford it. Couldn’t come close to affording it any other way. And so you need to have things like that that are things that chambers need to help with. Maybe you can bring on a a consultant once in a while, really good people that will help people understand how to do the financial parts of their business. They need to have HR experts. You need to be bringing them a stream of people that can give them what they need, so that they can have a reason to keep coming back to you. I mean, that’s, that’s the bottom line. Are you still relevant to me? Now I don’t need you to do a ribbon cutting ceremony anymore. What can you do for me now? Why should I come back this year? You gotta stay relevant. You gotta get them tangible stuff that matters.
Brandon Burton 28:15
And the good news for a chamber and staying relevant is there’s always new things. With how fast the economy moves these days, with how fast technology moves, there’s always a need to educate and to get more valuable information from your members who don’t have the time to do the research themselves and to put it all out there. But maybe it’s a lunch and learn kind of a format. You come for lunch. They’re going to eat lunch anyways. And can they take something away as they do that? Maybe it’s a podcast episode where you bring on an expert and they’re sharing these tips. Maybe it’s bringing in somebody like Barry who has his platform to be able to train and educate and bring your members to the next level. And
Barry Phillips 28:56
I will tell you, you’ve all been to one of those Lunch and Learns where you thought you’re going to get 45 minutes of education. What you got was a 45 minute sales pitch. Right? Make sure you’re not bringing somebody in that just wants to sell you on their insurance or on whatever you need. To get speakers that come and bring real content that people need without doing a pushy sales pitch on them. That’s what they need.
Brandon Burton 29:18
Yeah, because otherwise they won’t come back to the next lunch and learn, and they’ll think the chambers just, they just sell to me all the time, right? Yeah. So Well, Barry, I like asking everyone, as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, I know you’re you’ve dove into the the chamber world, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?
Barry Phillips 29:43
Well, chambers do have a lot of purposes, some of which from the past still are relevant to the future. Right? Good. Chambers are even involved in what is best for small businesses from the Washington political front, and they’re making affiliations with the. Know the local town councils and mayors all the way up to their state senates and those kinds of things where they can have that impact. And that’s important. They’ve got to keep doing that. But they do need to be able to provide things online. They need to give people a reason to come back and think about the chamber. You’re an association. Most of them aren’t associated directly with with the local government. Some are, but why? Why are they doing that? What is it you’re bringing to them? Education is a big, big piece of that, but so is giving them the ability to meet other people, to have horizons open to them. You need to be going as a chamber to events where you can see what the next thing is, and you start bringing new things on board, and always bringing new ideas and new products and things to them that you know people will. Some people think, Oh, I can’t raise my rates on my people. Well, you can’t. If you don’t show value, if you show enough value you can and it will make a big difference. You just got to be willing to go out there and say, here’s where, what we give you that you can’t get any place else, to be able to list off the education, the the help with HR, the help with whatever it is that you think is relevant for your for your people, and how to do that, and you’ve got to make sure that you can again, for you, you gotta have a sales pitch that’s very quick. Here’s what the chamber can do for you. Here’s the unique things we offer. You can’t get any place else, and you get this all for this amount of money. That’s a steal. That’s
Brandon Burton 31:32
right. And I love that. Taking it back to the sales pitch of the chamber, everybody’s in a sales good.
Unknown Speaker 31:39
I mean, you just don’t having that line
Brandon Burton 31:40
of this is what we provide that you can’t get anywhere else. That is so key. So I love it. Barry, I want to give you a chance to share any contact information for listeners who may want to reach out and connect and learn more about the services you offer, or just more about what we discussed today in this podcast episode. Where would you point them? What would be the best way for them to connect with you?
Barry Phillips 32:04
Well, there’s a couple of things. I’ve created a special website just for the heads of chambers, and it’s called chamber offer.com pretty easy to remember. You go there and there’s like eight little videos, then they’re all partly me on there. Sorry about that, but you’ll, you’ll be able to go through and I’ll walk you through all the things that that I offer with my online what I offer as a way for chambers to bring an online resource that’s live, that’s engaging and has a permanent library of stuff to it as well, bringing great content of education to your people. And it’s such a way that chambers can actually make money off of it. And it’s something that your members just really, really need. And so if you go to my regular website, BarryKPhillips.com you’ll get a flavor of my background there that that particular websites probably more suited for the big companies that I’ve worked with over the years, but you’ll see who I am there. Chamberoffer.com will give you exactly what you need, but contact me directly. Just go to Barry at Barry K Phillips com and reach out. I’d love to talk with you. Um, the phone number is 801-358-5525.
Brandon Burton 33:16
very good, and we will get all that in our show notes for this episode to make it easy for everyone to click on chamber offer.com and and see exactly what it is that you offer in your your stance with what you can do to help chambers. But Barry, this has been a great conversation. Hopefully it’s got the wheels turning with those chambers that are listening and and thinking of ways to really stay relevant and to put their value out there within their business community and stay top of mind for those businesses in their community. So thank you for sharing all this with us today, and it’s been great to have you on the show.
Barry Phillips 33:47
Thanks for having me. Brandon, I really appreciate it.
Brandon Burton 33:51
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