Below is an auto-generated transcription of my conversation with Dale Wilsher. Because this is auto-generated there are likely some grammatical errors but it is still a useful tool to search text within this podcast episode.
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Introduction
Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.
Now your host he goes for walks at night to avoid the summer he he’s my dad Brandon Burton.
Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your host, Brandon Burton, and it’s my goal to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.
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Brandon Burton 1:01
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Guest Introduction
You’re joining us today for it’s episode 190 with Dale Wilsher. Dale is a certified life and leadership coach, trainer and DISC personality profiles as well as a keynote speaker and award winning author, pressure to be all things to all people for years in her life. Dale now helps professionals understand their own distinction, their individual personality, passion and purpose so they can do meaningful work, create high functioning teams and contribute at their highest level. Dale, I’m excited to have you with us today on Chamber Chat Podcast, I’d love for you to take a moment to say hello to all the Chamber Champions that are listening and share something interesting about yourself so you can tell you a little better.
Dale Wilsher 1:50
Well, thanks so much, Brandon. Yeah, I’m Dale Wiltshire, and I’m here in Boulder, Colorado, and you gave the whole bio piece. So I love what I do. I’ve been doing this for about 10 years as a coach, I’ve been speaking for about 15 years when I started speaking, I was making popery and Starbucks cards. So I’ve definitely been able to level that up a little bit. Make speak in a way that I can sleep indoors and pay the rest of the bills. So you know lots of good things in the work that I get to do with people and helping them understand their strengths and their stories. So they can make the most of their time and their attention. And their talent. I you know, it’s a lot of pressure on what’s interesting about you, I was thinking about what’s interesting about, you know, other people in my life, my family, but I would say right now I’m in in the middle of training for a half marathon. So I got frozen shoulder when we hit the pandemic, and it took me out of everything, I ended up having a dislocated shoulder. So I couldn’t even run or bounce, you know, like whatever the I couldn’t do any of it. So I’m pretty excited. We’re we’ll do the 10 mile run this Sunday. And I’m doing it with my best friend and two of my daughters. And if one doesn’t show up, she has to pay me back. So I’m covered.
Brandon Burton 3:02
That’s awesome. Got your backup plan?
Yes, yeah, no, that is awesome. So tell us a little bit about your organization, the work that you do. I mean, you touched on it just briefly there. But who’s kind of your ideal client that you work with? And kind of yeah, go down that rabbit hole?
Dale Wilsher 3:22
Yeah, well, the business officially is called your authentic personality. And that really speaks to a lot of work I do to help people find authentic direction to be able to help them find more definition, I don’t believe you have good direction until you have a clearer definition of who you are. And especially in terms of your personality, your authentic personality, I do a lot of work with clients on their masks. So I work with a lot of purpose driven professionals in the chamber world is one area, but I work with people in a multitude of environments and different types of jobs, settings and industries. But they’re always purpose driven. They want to understand how to bring more of themselves and what matters to them into the work that they do. Because according to all the research on meaning, that’s how you engage most deeply. And to me, that’s based on your design, how you really contribute, what you’ve been, you know, designed to, to offer the world. So I help through a number of processes and tools and tips. And then I’ll work with people on their limiting beliefs, some of the things that hold you back from living out that distinction, usually in terms of emotional regulation, kind of weak or lame boundaries, and I work with a lot of women. So I see that quite a bit. I’ve never seen a woman come to the planet with good boundaries. And then those limiting beliefs. There’s so much that kind of subtly resides in our subconscious that is holding us back from all that we can do. And to me, that’s the greatest crime is really not tapping all that you were meant to do. So I want people to leave nothing on the table.
Brandon Burton 4:56
I love that tackling those limiting beliefs. My kids will tell you I preach to them all the time about discovering their potential and not leaving anything on the
Dale Wilsher 5:04
table. Right. That’s great. We’re right there with each other. Yeah,
Brandon Burton 5:08
absolutely. So for those listening, you and I, we got to actually meet in person before doing this podcast at the Mako chamber conference a couple months ago. And that’s kind of a rare opportunity for me to meet my guests in person before. So usually I do the interview, and then maybe at a conference later, I’ll get to meet these people in person. So we did this kind of backwards, which was awesome. So,
Dale Wilsher 5:35
so fun. It was so great to meet you. We were both in like our vendor tables. But I got to be the closing keynote at that event, which was delightful. I also got to talk about, you know, leading confidently in your personality type. And I think I finished that with how to keep the urgent from hijacking what’s important, which requires that you really know your authentic values. So it’s all kind of in line with the stuff I love to do.
Brandon Burton 5:58
Absolutely. And that segues right into our topic for our discussion today around authentic leadership. We’ll dive into that discussion as soon as we get back from this quick break.
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Alright, Dale, we’re back. So as we talk about authentic leadership, what does that mean, as far as you know, what is what is authentic? What is real? And how do you? How do you discover that as a leader?
Topic-Authentic Leadership
Dale Wilsher 9:12
Yeah, well, and, you know, LinkedIn did a survey not too long ago, and they had about 16,000 people respond with their definition of what leadership was, and they had so many different words, values that came up everything from inspiration and wisdom and influence and credibility and energy. You know, just almost as many definitions for leadership as there are probably people who lead and people who are lead, so I’ll leave the leadership. These were the people who are leading influencing guiding teams and organizations, you know, to action. So there’s the leadership piece, authentic leadership. You know, there’s a number of ways to describe that Sheryl Sandberg talked about you know, bringing your whole self to work and and making sure that you know, you’re you’re not just a profession
is no self during the week and a personal self and authenticity has a consistency to it. So there should be the same personality that you are at home, you’re bringing to work. And I, like I mentioned before I work with a lot of people who are wearing personality masks. So trying to really understand what is their original design, because if you’re working out of a mask, you’re going to work twice as hard for half the results. So, you know, it’s bringing that I believe it’s bringing your values into action, really aligning with what matters most to you. So you have to be able to clarify those, so that you can get in the driver’s seat of them and not just kind of bump into them now and again, and then also your purpose, each person has one why you don’t have a professional, why and a personal why you have one. So how can you bring that to bear as the leader to be able to influence your organization, your members, your staff, whoever it might be? I love that. So I find that that LinkedIn survey intriguing, because you hear all the time people employees say, Oh, he was the worst leader ever, or, you know, she was an amazing leader, it’s great to find that and everybody’s perspective, you know, tends to lead to a different result as far as what that definition is. Absolutely.
Sorry. As I say,
Brandon Burton 11:15
I like being able to hone that down into what is authentically you and not having these different personality masks. But go in with your thought.
Dale Wilsher 11:23
Yeah, I forgot my thoughts. So um, yeah, it is, it is all about being real. And then I say, finding out what is real because I see it if you kind of look at truth, if authenticity is a form of truth, there’s like the little T truth, which is that courage to admit your weaknesses, it’s what’s true right now, that’s what a lot of people talk about to be vulnerable, a lot of the work by Brene, brown and bringing that so that people can be human. They’re not burning out all that kind of stuff. But then it is finding what is real, because that is this discovery toward you know, what is your best self? What are you capable of? Because we can and I do hear it from time to time, use authenticity as an excuse to kind of stay in our comfort zone. It’s like, oh, that’s not natural for me. Oh, that just doesn’t feel right. And then we never quite stretched ourselves into what can be the best parts of ourselves. So it’s, it’s kind of a broad, broad concept.
Brandon Burton 12:19
Yeah, that kind of goes back to the limiting beliefs. What do you say, Oh, that’s not me. Yeah, all the excuses become limiting factors. But I like how you’ve mentioned these personality masks, as well, as you work with clients, and they gain the courage, I guess, to remove that personality mask that work mask to show who they authentically are. What is that like for an individual because it I imagine it does take courage to change who you presented yourself as for, you know, a certain amount of time in a public scene versus your authentic self.
Dale Wilsher 12:54
So, so true, it takes a lot of courage. And what we know from DISC personality results is that at least 20% of the population is wearing a mask at any given time. And I always see this when usually most of us have a major and a minor personality type. And I work out of the four basic personality types, but there are compatible blends. And when you’re looking at opposite blends, usually one of those is the mask like usually you’re partnered up married to your opposite, making you think you should be more like them. Or maybe they think you should be more like them. So it gets confusing family culture, corporate culture, can say that you should be one way versus another that bias. So to be able, I find to help people, first of all, figure out if they’re wearing a mask, and they’re, you know, filling kind of an internal conflict or confusion about who you’re supposed to be. We see burnout patterns and chameleon patterns that can let us know if that’s there. But to be able to bring who you are, first of all, I think you have to see what is really good about that personality type, most of us overvalue other people’s strengths and we undervalue our own, we assume that because we do it, it doesn’t take any talent, it’s not really that big of a deal. So I always start with helping people really understand what the foundation of that personality is, and what the gifts are that you bring that the rest of us really can’t touch. So I think it starts there. And then it’s a matter of growth because personalities 5050 50% is in your DNA. And then the other 50% is influenced and experience. You know, we’re all very unique, but that other 50% That’s really the study of epigenetics, which is the study of nurture, and what happens and when you are in a culture that does not really favor or kind of allow for your personality type, protein expression can get turned off. So truly, you’re not able to grow your strengths if you’re not using them or you don’t see what’s really good about them. So I find that when people take those masks off, first of all, there is a great sense of relief. There is a great So fear, like, What’s everybody gonna think now. And then there’s this process of allowing protein expression to be turned on. But according to the Gallup organization, you will move much faster when you’re working in the lane of your strengths. So it’s not like if you’ve been turned off for 30 years, it’s gonna take you another 30, it can happen very quickly. But you need to know what your strengths are your authentic strings to really start to grow those adding skills, adding knowledge, and just spending time in them. So yeah,
Brandon Burton 15:29
yeah, that is a topic of epigenetics in general is wow, like, you can dive in deep on that. And, and the whole idea is, it’s above genetics. So people say, Hey, I’m genetically predisposed to, you know, have breast cancer or have this you know, alcoholism or, you know, different character traits or whatnot. And epigenetics is above that. So you can change, you can literally change how your genes act and react based on nurture and things like you’re talking about. So I want to get us closer back to chamber. Oh, this is all?
Dale Wilsher 16:04
Yes, we were talking human world. Yes.
Brandon Burton 16:06
Right. Right. So as we look at chambers, how can a chamber benefit from authentic leadership?
Dale Wilsher 16:14
Yeah, I think it is really, I see in the chamber world that a lot of CEOs and directors are one of the personality types, which is the high on the disc, that is the social butterfly, that’s because that’s naturally what they do is connect to people, connect people with others promote people. So I see a lot of that. So when I talk to chamber professionals, I mostly hear people bringing that element of, you know, I create a lot of trust, because I’m able to share openly because that’s the nature of their personality type or I value connection. And so my members feel like they’re safe, and we care. So we can help their businesses grow, because they’ll lean into us, because I’m being authentic. Now, this could happen with any of the four. But there is this piece that’s really about trust, and connection and care. And it’s, you know, a part of Google did a study about high functioning teams, you know, and one of the biggest pieces of that is there’s got to be psychological safety. And part of that is feeling like you’re understood, you’re known and who you are. So they felt like being able to bring their authentic self gave their members especially permission to be their authentic selves, as well. So, you know, and I’ve talked to so many people who said, you know, all eyes are on us, you know, like, we want one of my CEO said, you know, I’m like a Disney World character, like people know, kind of watch. You know, I, when I’m out at my daughter’s soccer game, people know who I am, I’m committed to my community. But I need to be the same at the soccer game as I am in my business. And she works very hard to do that. So that’s exciting to see that people can trust her because there is that consistency there.
Brandon Burton 17:57
So in the chamber world, I see a lot of these chamber professionals, they might look to others, their peers in the industry, and say, well, this person is that social butterfly, this person, you know, shows that sincere care for each of their Chamber members, and how to help their business succeed. So IMS do the same thing. I need to template myself the way you know someone so does that conducts their chamber. So I do believe that there’s some value to be learned by by looking at your peers and taking notes as to what they do. But how do you how does one kind of resolve that conflict if they feel like I’m not naturally that social butterfly, and I’m super uncomfortable, you know, more, maybe more of an introvert, and I’m feeling forced to go this direction?
Dale Wilsher 18:45
Well, and that comes back to really understanding what your style is, what your leadership style is, because each of these four types has a leadership style. You know, it’s not just one type that fits into the chamber world and other types don’t, but it is getting really, I think, familiar with that style. Again, what’s great about that, let’s say that you were the approver, which is the see on the desk, they’re careful and cautious, very conscientious. So that builds trust simply by the nature of everything that happens usually gets done, they do things for the right reason, they have a ton of integrity. And so in meeting with their people, they would do better to meet one on one, say, you know, they’re going to do the big group, you know, ribbon cuttings and different types of events. But they’re probably going to tap their source of genius by really meeting with people one on one and getting to know them and have it using those great listening skills and letting people know who they are authentically so that those can be valued, like they can be trusted for that reason. So I advocate always to know what your true personality type is so that you feel like that that’s a great thing. And you might be representing for a different personality type. Your membership is made up of every single type. So we need an understanding to create kind of a culture of So in respect of all the different types, it’s like I always say personality is like a set of glasses that you come to the planet with. And you kind of think everybody’s wearing the same one. And then when you’re like, What are you doing? Or what are you thinking, like, you know, if you if you escaped it for years, in your adult life, when you have children, you’re like, What is wrong with you? Or at times, you can think what’s wrong with me, it’s because they have this different set of glasses, different priorities, different motivators, different fears. So to understand that means you’re going to understand your people better. And I think it creates that, again, that real feeling that thing that inspires trust. So any of these can lead extremely well,
Brandon Burton 20:38
like that. So it doesn’t mean that you don’t have to not do those things that make you uncomfortable, you may have to do it from time to time, but lean into those strengths that you have to show. Yeah, I like that answer. So what type of things make authenticity hard in the chamber world?
Dale Wilsher 20:57
Yeah, well, because you are always being watched in that sense that people know you in the community, you’re a figure that people recognize there is that that fear of some? Well, I talked to one of my CEOs who said, you know, there’s one board member who is actually, as we talked, we were able to figure out, it was the opposite of her personality type. But that was just not going well, this person actually was not her fan, the board member and so to be able to bring her authentic personality out felt like even more of a risk, she felt like that was going to be used against her and sees those were the improvers that I mentioned the careful and cautious they are naturally more private. So they did not like her sharing. And they felt like they at one point the person said, Stop trying to be vulnerable with us. And so, you know, that is a danger in kind of like how do you respect other people’s wishes and still bring who you are. Now that was just one person who was kind of alone in their thought process. But that’s it, you can seem unprofessional, if you have a more exposed, more sharing kind of open personality type. And so to understand, sometimes I just explain, you know, like my personality type as a D, I move fast. And so sometimes because I value people’s time now if I let them know that then then they can kind of give me a little bit of grace, when they feel like Dale, you’re being abrupt Oh, thank you for letting me know, but they understand where it’s coming from. So I think there’s personality misunderstandings that can happen, because again, your membership and your board, membership is going to be completely different than you there’s the judgment that you get. And like that board member, I’ll just read really quick, there’s a favorite line I have from the Velveteen Rabbit, which is about this little rabbit, who is a stuffed animal who wants to become real. And this is the quote, this is the old wise horse in the nursery, who is the one with all the wisdom, he says generally, by the time you’re real, most of your hair has been loved off, and your eyes drop out, and you get loose in the joints and very shabby. But these things don’t matter at all. Because once you’re real, you can’t be ugly, except to people who don’t understand. And I think just knowing that there will always be people who don’t understand. But by and large, when you’re getting feedback, to be able to be vulnerable is is always going to model for other people that they too can be vulnerable. So I think while it’s a risk, it’s a risk that’s worth it. And hopefully, she’ll still get the help she needs.
Brandon Burton 23:39
So, maybe circling back a little bit to that LinkedIn study where there’s there’s these different leadership expectations. And whether it’s coming from your board or from Members, is there a way to approach your authentic leadership style and say, to your, whether it’s to your board or your membership, this is me, this is where I perform best, I’ll still do these things. But I need a little bit of grace in you know, making this transition or removing this mask or whatever it is to show your authentic self.
Dale Wilsher 24:09
I think you said it beautifully. And if you were depending on if you what your skill set is your strengths are whether you do that one on one, whether you do that at a group meeting. And knowing that you know the the two personality types that are relational, they always want to morph and bend to accommodate relationships that are a little bit more round because they want to be able to do that the other two are more task based. And they’re a little bit more square. They have kind of more structure and so just letting people know where you’re coming from but inviting that feedback and having those honest conversations about your personality, your style, and always having that openness to say I want to make sure that I’m not using that kind of excused authenticity like I’m sorry that’s not me. I can’t go there. You know a mass forms not when we accommodate someone stuff. While the opposite type for me is the s, that’s the stabilizer. It’s the biggest portion of the population. It’s a more soft spoken individual hearts for service. I see them a lot in nonprofits, but they, you know, they do things differently. So I need to bring down my my speed, and my volume, literally, extroverts have more volume I need to accommodate. But mass comes in when you start to think that’s who I’m supposed to be. So it’s, it’s still accommodating what people might need, understanding where they’re coming from, but having the courage to bring out yourself so that everybody else because if we don’t, we are not allowing people to bring their best. So I just think the understanding of personality is huge.
Brandon Burton 25:42
So this thought just came to me as you’re giving that response, because it’s very much, you know, our discussion is very much focused on the leader and their authentic leadership, as a leader, how much should it play into your conversations with others about what their styles may be?
Dale Wilsher 26:01
I think if you want to grow your people, it’s crucial if you want to keep your people, I mean, one element of finding meaning at work, which is what everybody is looking for, which increases engagement, and increases retention is that you’re known that people understand who you are, and what matters to you. And they’re helping you bring out your strengths. So I think if you’re bringing in a disc trainer, or you’re doing something that allows people to be able to be known, and don’t just take the test, and like put it in the file, I see that a lot in hiring. And then they’re like, I don’t even know what my results were, I mean, it, it needs to be kind of a living, active thing to understand, so that you can help develop your people. That’s what everyone is looking for a place to grow and develop into their true self. And if you can align work with that kind of element, then everyone wants to stay, everyone wants to engage. And it’s also like, we’re not supposed to be everything to everyone, but your team can be, you know, we are supposed to live out of our strengths. And together, then we are a well rounded team. So we don’t want well rounded individuals, we want well rounded teams, because that creates appreciation, and giving people space to really kind of live in their zone of genius grow that.
Brandon Burton 27:19
I think that’s fantastic. As we as as we start wrapping things up here, I wanted to ask you, if maybe for a tip or an action item for chambers listening, who’d like to maybe take their chamber to the next level, what would be something that you’d offer from maybe from our discussion today that they could implement?
Action Item/Tip for Chamber Champions
Dale Wilsher 27:40
Well, you can imagine, I’m gonna say just know your personality type. But also know your values, I find that 75% of a person’s values align with their personality type. And so there are a number of ways to do that I have, I have courses, I work with people individually, it’s not a long process, but it does need to be an authentic process, don’t get a whole list and just go shopping, because that’s when you just pick everything you’re like, Well, who am I, if I don’t pick generosity, you know, like, I’m just selfish son of a gun. So you got to be careful. But defining more, I would say, take a disk, if you’ve taken disk before, you know, get them out, have a meeting to really review who everybody is and what their value is to the team. Those are always in those reports, I have a disc test on my, on my website, which is your authentic personality.com that anyone can take, of course, I do that kind of training for groups. But I just think whatever you can do, whether use StrengthsFinder by the Gallup organization, but really get something that’s simple, that allows people to understand themselves, but also other people on their team. It’s not enough just to dive into your own personal growth, you need to understand how you relate to others, and how to bring out the best in them as well.
Brandon Burton 28:56
I love that. And I think a lot of chambers are familiar with these personality tests and trying to figure things out. But for those that maybe have put it away in a file, or you know, it’s in a drawer somewhere, pull it out, maybe do it again, I don’t know how often personalities change over time, but I imagined for some, you know, over a course of a career might change a little bit. But as we look to the future of chambers, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?
Future of Chambers
Dale Wilsher 29:27
I think the future is strong. If you know according to the Small Business Association, you know, only 1% of companies are large organizations, you know, 99% are small businesses and to that to chamber serve. And so this to me is the heart and soul of our community. Having gone through the pandemic, we all know that we need each other we need to be in contact with each other. We’re again we’re together we’re a well rounded team we will there’s always things we don’t know there’s that humility to say I can learn from others. If people can help promote me connect me. So I think that as long as we have people and communities, and we have an economy, chambers will be strong and so, so needed.
Brandon Burton 30:11
Yeah. I love that. And we have learned a lot through the pandemic about the need of chambers. But the point you make about 99% of businesses being small businesses, a lot of them are just trying to figure out the next step the next day, you know, so having a great resource such as the Chamber of Commerce is so vital to their success. Absolutely. So Dale, I like to give you an opportunity to share any contact information, you’d mentioned your website. But if you’d like to plug that again, what would be the best way for someone to reach out and connect with you if they’d like to learn more about the work? You do? Yeah,
Connect with Dale Wilsher
Dale Wilsher 30:47
thank you, Brandon. It is a going to the website. It’s yourauthenticpersonality.com. There’s a contact page. If you have any questions, and those come right to my email, I always answer every single one of those there’s a personality tab at the top, we’ve got some fun quizzes, we’ve got some videos. If you want to do that, if you want to look at disk training, again, reach out, any of the information will head home to my email, and I’m happy to be a resource in any way I can. So your authentic personality.com
Brandon Burton 31:20
That’s awesome. And we’ll get that in our show notes for this episode, which will be found at chamberchatpodcast.com/episode190. But Dale, this has been fun to reconnect with you and to have you on the podcast. So thank you for taking the time to be with us today. And I look forward to to everybody learning more about their authentic leadership styles and making a bigger impact.
Dale Wilsher 31:42
Absolutely. Thank you so much, Brandon. It’s great to see you again, too.
Brandon Burton 31:47
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