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Category: Leadership

West Des Moines Chamber-ACCE Chamber of the Year Finalist with Katherine Harrington

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Below is an auto-generated transcription of my conversation with Katherine Harrington. Because this is auto-generated there are likely some grammatical errors but it is still a useful tool to search text within this podcast episode.

Feel free to join our Chamber Chat Champions Facebook Group to discuss this episode and to share your own experiences and tips with other Chamber Champions.

Introduction

Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

And now, your host, he can’t stand the sound of an art board being folded. Here’s my dad Brandon Burton. Hello Chamber Champions. Welcome to the Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your host Brandon Burton, and it’s my goal to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

Our title sponsor is Holman Brothers Membership Sales Solutions. Let’s hear from Jason Mock, President and CEO of the San Marcos Area Chamber to learn how the Holman Brothers have provided value for his chamber.

Jason Mock 0:45
Two years ago, we brought in Holman Brothers to help our organization go to that next level. And in those two years, our team has transformed the way that we think about sponsorships and non dues revenue. And I would really encourage you if you’re looking to take your chamber to the next level to bring on the Holman Brothers.

Brandon Burton 1:02
You can learn more about Holman Brothers Membership Sales Solutions by visiting holmanbros.com.

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Guest Introduction

You’re joining us for a special episode in our 2022 ACC chamber the year finalist series and our guest for this episode is Katherine Harrington. Katherine is a ballerina turned executive as and as the President and CEO of the West Des Moines chamber in Iowa over the last two years in this role, she created an avid fan base and several new programs including the International black and brown Business Summit, the DEI Workplace Excellence Awards, Best of the West awards, Raccoon River rally, Fall Festival, W DM newsletter and more. Katherine has an extensive background in public speaking media sales, revenue stream creation, event development and leadership with organizations including US magazine and New York City, Crain’s Chicago Business San Diego Business Journal DSM magazine and the Des Moines business record. She also bootstrapped and ran her own glassy technology magazine events and digital news organization serving leaders in the booming tech and internet industries in San Diego called the tea sector at the Des Moines business record, she was Director of Innovation was the number one sales producer and started the lucrative innovation Iowa magazine, weekly news and a yearly awards event. Katherine has a passion for helping others and is on the board for several local organizations and foundations. Her early ballet career led to her Interlochen Arts Academy full time at the at 1415 Pacific Northwest Ballet School and Corniche Institute of Allied Arts and San Francisco Ballet School at 16 Tulsa Ballet Theatre at 17 and scholarship with Alvin Ailey American Dance Theater at 18 in New York City, it was in New York that Arthur Mitchell of Dance Theatre of Harlem said Katherine Harrington dances with her heart and you can see love coming out of her pores. Katherine received the W dem chamber MLK Jr. Community Organization Leadership Award as a winner of the great outdoor foundation and most valuable Philanthropist Award. finalist for the inspiring women of Iowa award was voted one of the most likeable by CityView magazine. Katherine has three successful children. Allie who’s a lawyer with Mayor Brown in Chicago. Nick is a real estate executive with compass and a real estate investor in Milwaukee. And Caitlin is a leader in supply chain at Target in Minneapolis. She’s married to Craig Walter, his biology and chemistry teacher at Valley High School. Katherine and her two daughters also started a widely claimed podcast in 2022 called what the fam you can listen to them on Apple podcasts or anywhere you get your podcasts. But Katherine, I’m excited to have you with me today on Chamber Chat Podcast. Congratulations for being selected as a chamber of the year finalist. I’d love for you to take a moment to say hello to all the Chamber Champions and share something else interesting about yourself so you can get to know you a little better.

Katherine Harrington 4:59
Now Have allbranded I just first of all, thank you for doing this, thank you for hosting this really important venue to help share for others to grow and build their chambers and their communities. So this is great, what a great service you have just kudos to you for for ID ating. And doing this and putting it together and, and making it happen. Wow, you read my whole entire bio, so I’m a little embarrassed. So Wow. And it’s kind of fun to you know, it’s Gosh, I’ve done a lot in my years. I didn’t realize they’re gonna read the whole bio, but, but I don’t think I have any more thing.

Brandon Burton 5:37
I was gonna trim it up as I went through. There’s a lot of good stuff here.

Katherine Harrington 5:42
Embarrassed Oh, my gosh. But I don’t like to talk so much about me. I like to talk about others. So I’m a little blushing right here. But for that intro,

Brandon Burton 5:54
from? Well, why don’t you instead of focusing on yourself, tell us a little bit more about the West Des Moines chamber so we can get a better idea of the type of chamber you are the size, staff budget, the scope of work that you do, and that sort of thing to kind of set the tone for our discussion.

About the West Des Moines Chamber

Katherine Harrington 6:12
Yeah, well, that’s a topic I can talk all day and night on. So absolutely. I actually started this role on April Fool’s Day of 2020. So and I had had no prior chamber experience at all. So this is a new world for me. But I’m a big idea person, I love to build ideas. I can’t stop that idea brain. It is constantly going and growing.

Brandon Burton 6:40
Kind of a blessing and a curse at the same time isn’t

Katherine Harrington 6:43
exactly it. You’re right, Brandon, like if you love ideas, and if you love to see them grow and nurture and help others chamber life is for you. But you’re right. It’s a blessing and a curse, you have to understand what you can do, what capacity you and your team have, and what you can maybe scrap or or say, well, we’ll do that in five years. Right? So it’s just hard to say no to all the cool things that that we can do. But the chamber, West Des Moines Chamber of Commerce, we will be 100 years old in 2024. So that’s pretty impressive. We’ve been around for a very long time. So it was certainly a I’m on the shoulder of giants, as they say when I joined a couple years ago. So it, it’s been a wonderful experience. The pandemic was right during that time as well. So I remember our former president training me and she said, Katherine, I think this pandemic is just going to last for about a week or so. And then I think we’re going to we’re gonna be through it at you know, and here we are, right. So I was I was, I loved her positivity. But you know, the facts bore out that it was much longer. But it was actually a really beautiful time to look at everything we were doing and understand, you know, how can we serve our community during this amazingly challenging time for humans and neighbors and our businesses? And, you know, what do they need. So, honestly, it was a gift to start during this really challenging time. Because we first of all, we had just one team member left, we have six team members, we’re hiring another team member, we’re growing. And we started with just one team member. So it was kind of nice, I could hire our own staff and build our own culture. We are huge culture advocates, we feel like that extends to not just the chamber, but to our city into our businesses. We’re trying to create the best culture in America, in our city. So it was really neat to onboard people that have the same loving acumen to help others. But we have 711 members and around almost 100 years. So now we’re gonna have seven team members and we really have a separate division which is our workforce division which is kind of unusual for some chambers so so that’s a little bit a little bit about

Brandon Burton 9:18
us. Yeah, that that will help as we get into our topic today is a chamber the year finalists but I what I like to do is focus the majority of our discussion on the the two programs you guys submitted on your chamber your application, and we’ll get into that discussion as soon as we get back from this quick break.

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Topic-Chamber of the Year Application Programs

All right, Katherine, we’re back. So as I mentioned before, will will highlight the two programs synopsis on your chamber, the your application, if you would just talk to us a little bit at a high level what the two programs are, and then we’ll circle back into some more detail on each of them.

Katherine Harrington 12:01
Yeah, so one is we started a black and brown Business Summit. And this was really the motivation because of the murder of George Floyd and the uprising in our city as well as around the world. And we want our city to be the most welcoming city in the world. And how do we do that? So we are all about making big noise for our city, because it helps spotlight who we are, you know, we’re not, we’re not on a beach. We’re not on an ocean. We’re not on a mountain. So we have to think really unusual. And think big if we’re going to make some noise for our city. So we started through really a community saying how can we support black and brown businesses and see them grow and nurture and become billionaires? Not just, you know, 1000 air but a billionaire? So the Athene, it’s now called the Athene black and brown Business Summit, it is something that we’ve had 23 countries, people in 23 countries view we telecast it. So it’s it’s a hybrid event, but it’s extensive. So that’s, that’s number one. Okay, we love that event. And then our second program that we’re spotlighting is our 15th year, the Western Moines Leadership Academy, and it grows and builds every year, with leaders all ages, all companies that, that join that we have a pretty rigorous application process, but we have to narrowed it down which is hard to 33 people in the region. And it’s a little different than most leadership academies, but but those are our two that we highlighted in the application.

Brandon Burton 13:51
Very good. So let’s circle back to the first one, the Black and Brown Business Summit. As you launch that business summit, how did you structure it? How did you get the word out? How did you build up the hype for this? Building upon the the emotion really, that was going throughout the country?

Katherine Harrington 14:11
Yeah, it takes a team. It takes a community to support that. So our team, we started a dei committee, and that’s led by now our board chair Angela Jackson, and she’s an entrepreneur, small business owner, and she’s also in charge of the EI one of our largest employers here called a theme. And we created our dei Committee, which helped to start and grow that black and brown Business Summit. So that then spun into six different committees. So we have a lot of community members near 200 volunteers that help to support that event. Because that event is a is a two day conference, but within it are many smaller events all very meaningful To help build and grow and inspire the Black and Brown business community, so part of it is a pitch competition the first day, we have a pitch competition. First year, we gave out $10,000 to the winners. And this year, we gave out $42,000 to the winners, wow. So a lot of a lot of money, cash. And that’s all raised through sponsorship through sponsorships, and we do well with sponsorships, people want to be aligned with this brand, they want to be aligned, and they want to help these businesses grow. So it’s really a great forum to provide that connection for those sponsors. But so that’s day one, there’s lots of programming, education, learning, practicing your pitch, we bring in experts from around the world, to help these people, you know, figure out what is their pitch, and then on the main stage, they do their pitch on day one. And then day two is, oh, my gosh, lots and lots of sessions and breakouts with everything. You name it, like social media, how, you know, how do you run your social media marketing, branding, Bitcoin, you know, just different things. We’re trying to be on the cutting edge of knowledge for these folks to help them really achieve success. And then we have a keynote, we had Daymond John of ABC Shark Tank Shark Tank was our keynote this year. But it is a sincere pleasure. We also have a fundraising component to the summit and we fundraise for nonprofit organizations at the same time that support black and brown businesses. So so that’s pretty neat, too. And every year that that changes. So there’s a lot involved in all of this programming.

Brandon Burton 16:45
That is awesome. That is every follow up question I had for you, you are hitting right after

Katherine Harrington 16:52
I need to practice for the big interview, right?

Brandon Burton 16:54
That’s right, you’re covering all the great points. So I love the idea that pitch competition, and then having those breakout sessions and trainings really to how to be more effective and future thinking about your business. I think you’d mentioned Bitcoin. And I think that there’s, you know, in the crypto world and NF Ts and Bitcoin, like that’s going to be a big part of the future of business. And chambers and businesses alike need to get on board and realize what that impact can be. And you’re not holding back any punches with your keynote speakers either. John is awesome. Yeah,

Katherine Harrington 17:31
yeah. We, it’s neat. It’ll be fun to see where we go with our keynote this year. So yeah, yeah, fingers. Yeah.

Brandon Burton 17:39
Well, let’s, let’s shift gears, then over to the West Des Moines Leadership Academy, and talk to us about what that entails. And maybe what sets it apart from other leadership classes that other chambers might put on. Yeah,

Katherine Harrington 17:54
it’s really, really interesting what we do there some leadership academies, you learn more about the city, you might learn more about, like how the police is run, or how, you know, planning and zoning is run or city council, things like that. But we take the Leadership Academy, we kind of put it on its side a little bit. And we go deep into the humanity of you as a leader. What makes a good leader? And and that’s a complicated answer. And that’s multifaceted. So we have experts that come in are experts in their field, to really try to help those leaders know who they are, first of all, a lot of people we think we might be self aware, but only 10% of humans are really literally self aware. So you know, how self aware are you analyzing that understanding how you can become more self aware. And great leaders make great companies. So that’s what we want to train our great leaders so that they then as they’re leading their company, or soon to be leading their company, we’re trying to give them that incredible humanity, caring, loving, honest, open, transparent acumen that they can take to their companies. And, and it’s really, that they can also take to their personal lives, because we’re teaching them not only how to be a great leader, but a great human. So it’s, it is very intensive. And sometimes there’s crying in these, because you learn a lot about yourself that you did not see or you could not see or you didn’t want to see. So it is absolutely it’s like a therapy session. Right. So, so it’s it’s really neat, but another component of a Leadership Academy is nonprofit fundraising. We love to raise money for others in our town and most of our signature events have a component of nonprofit fundraising, based around sponsorship so so we the leadership can’t To me this year raised nearly $50,000, for the local community school district, for refugees that are coming into our city that don’t have the resources don’t have the means to find the housing, whatever that they’re looking for. So we raised $50,000, for a refugee program in our city, so impactful.

Brandon Burton 20:23
That is awesome. I know, just locally, I’m in the Dallas area. And my wife through our church was very involved with refugees, a couple of walls, I guess, was pre COVID. And they were allowed to, and some of the most humble people and great experiences working with them and hearing their stories and just life changing. So the fact that you guys are raising funds to help out those refugees, it changes lives. So that is a huge impact in your community.

Katherine Harrington 20:53
Is that need to be part of the chamber where you can change people’s lives. I mean, I’ve, I’ve worked for nonprofit organizations my whole life. And I should have started the chamber years ago for and I’ve only been involved for a little over two years. And I’m just like, Oh, I love it with all my heart. It’s amazing work.

Brandon Burton 21:10
Yes. So tell me a little bit more about the discovering the self awareness. So you mentioned now it’s like a therapy session. I as you’re talking about it, I’m picturing all the aha moments where people are like, oh, you know what, I’ve been living my whole life on somebody else’s agenda. You know, let me realize who I am and what I want. So is that kind of how you see things unfold? Or what are? What are some of the experiences that you’ve seen come out of that?

Katherine Harrington 21:38
Well, yeah, we literally have. So we have a number of expert speakers and book writers that are nationally published, that we do hire we pay, you have to audition to be one of our leadership academy trainers. And we do have a super high standard. So we built a great reputation for that. So there are a ha moments. I mean, I remember one woman in particular, you know, standing up saying, you’ve changed my life, this is life changing. And the fact that I know this now, you know, I can take this everywhere with me wherever I go, it was just something really personal. But that that is incredible. That’s so meaningful. So it’s just very fulfilling.

Brandon Burton 22:24
Yeah. And I mean, that’s the, for me, that’s the whole point of a chamber is to be able to, you know, improve your community. And to be able to start with changing individual lives, especially if those people are business owners, the refugees that are coming to the country and starting businesses starting a life here, all of it is going to play into a greater city, a greater community overall. So that kind of transitions into the next question I was going to ask you is, how do you view the role of the Western chamber? What what is your role in your community from your stance? Oh, goodness,

Katherine Harrington 23:02
well, we want to put Western Moines on the map worldwide, literally, and no idea is too, too big or too small to do that. And right now, our biggest need in our community is talent, attraction, workforce attraction. And so we are trying to do everything we can to bring more people to West Des Moines. Now, the way people choose their cities, and places they work is they choose the city first. And then they’ll choose where they want to work after they’ve mobilized and figure out what city do I want to live in. So we are trying along with our city of West Des Moines team, we work closely with them. We’re really trying to trying to create that best city in America to live work and play in every facet. But our job is to promote our city. Think of those big ideas that we can activate and make happen. Because we can we’ve got the means we’ve got the desire, we got the passion, and we can find the money, whatever it is. So we’ve got some really exciting ideas for the future. But we just published for instance, a magazine called 515 West and it is a talent attraction magazine. It is a showpiece. We are going to put it up for some awards, but it’s beautifully designed, captivating, you know, double page spreads that highlights our people or humanity or the beautiful parts of our city, or Parks and Recreation. And we’re gonna be advertising that magazine across the country and targeting key cities that may not have all of the great amenities like West Des Moines has, right? We have a safe, safe community. Our housing prices are low compared to some of your, you know, major cities, our traffic, we don’t have any traffic jams. It’s like 10 minutes to get everywhere. So that We have really, really, really friendly humans, like everybody here is for others. It’s not about me, it’s about how can I help you. And everybody has that acumen. And we’re continually trying to build that and model for others. So we’re huge model. And we’re modeling for the community, right? This is, how can I help you? So we are excited to advertise the 515, West magazine in LA, Denver, Boston, Hartford, Connecticut, because we are a financial and insurance center in the US. But we’re LA, Chicago. So cities like that where you know, it every thought of West Des Moines. style. Yeah, exactly. So we’re going to do a social media campaign in those cities promoting our city to hopefully cross our fingers build interest, awareness and attention and love for our city.

Brandon Burton 25:55
So hopefully, it doesn’t bring the traffic jams with it. Well,

Katherine Harrington 25:59
I know infrastructure is Uh huh. Our whole region has a march to a million theme, which, you know, we’re all we’re all trying to bring more people here to our beautiful city and more people from all over the world all over the country and world. So yeah, and you asked earlier, Brandon, our size of a chamber, we just reached a million dollars in revenue, which is we, that’s new for us. So a million dollar chamber, and even through the pandemic. So, we’ve, we’ve we’ve done really well with serving our community. So yeah, we’re strong chamber.

Brandon Burton 26:36
That is awesome. So as a chamber, the year finalists, I look at all the finalists as as they were kind of setting the benchmark in the chamber world, you guys are doing great things. And I’m curious to see if you have any tips or action items for chambers who are listening who might are interested in taking their chamber up to the next level? What suggestions would you have for them?

Action Item/Tip for Chamber Champions

Katherine Harrington 27:00
I would say don’t be afraid to make bold decisions. Don’t compare yourselves to other chambers. Be unique. Be yourself. Go big. And, you know, I think that’s huge. And that’s just something that, that we challenge ourselves every day, how big can we think how big can we go. And then from a culture perspective, we live, eat and breathe positivity and loving others, and caring for others. So having that acumen I think will set you apart from other other organizations, other people, it is very, very important to keep that positive mindset and look at things on the positive side, chamber life is a lot as we all know, if you’re listening to this, you’re part of a chamber you know, you know, many people walk through your door every day, you get interesting phone calls you you know you have, you’re dealing with so many so many beautiful people in the world. But always see, the positive side always know it’s from comes from a place of good intent. Don’t you know, I’m just always about loving others, and you never know what somebody else is going through. So always give them love back, even if you might not be getting it right. Because sometimes people walk in the door, and they may not be happy about something, it rarely happens to us. But I’ve heard other chambers, you know, having difficulty and I’ve been reading the other blogs and the Facebook, you know, different pages and channels and stuff. But just charging through doing all you can to help others and love others and model for others I think is is just so important to us.

Brandon Burton 28:51
And that goodwill will come back to you as well. Even if they’re not in a mind frame of state of mind to return that love at some point, it always comes back around. So I like that advice. And I like the idea of being bold and going big. Because I think a lot of chambers might be a little scared to go too bold or too big because any fallout that may happen or risk that comes along with it. But you know, have those big dreams and it’s not so much for to make a risk. But to make a difference in your community. You have to dream big and and be bold. So I love that.

Katherine Harrington 29:33
It’s so true. And a lot of it too is imagining revenue streams that are new, unique, different that nobody else is maybe doing because to be a chamber you have to build revenue because you’ve got overhead. Of course you’ve got your staff, but thinking of new ways that you’ve never thought of before to monetize things. You know, we’re a business just like every other business. So treating it like a business is not like a nonprofit, but like a business. We partnered, for instance, our chamber has never done this before in the history of our chamber, we’re partnering with an organization, and we’re selling culture licenses. So we’re helping companies and humans understand what it means to create great culture at their organizations. And because culture is more than we’ve got a beanbag chair over here, and we, you know, we’ve got fabulous beer Fridays, and you get to get off at one o’clock, its culture is a lot more than that. It’s more than than a ping pong table that gets dusty in the middle of the, you know, break room, right? So. So there is a science behind it, there is a science around it. So we’re trying to help companies understand how they can create the best culture. And so we’re starting to launch a program called better culture brought to you by the West Des Moines Chamber of Commerce, and it’s a neat online program self paced, and very, very valuable information. So we’re really excited about that. So, you know, so think of revenue streams that you can build. They know how that helps you grow as a chamber. So that’s, that’s one thing I would say to

Brandon Burton 31:16
like that. And I would, I could sit here and pick your brain for the next hour or two about different revenue stream ideas. But maybe we save that for another conversation. Yes, yeah. So no chambers all over always looking towards the future. And you gave great advice of looking for those revenue streams and staying relevant. But how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Future of Chambers

Katherine Harrington 31:41
Wow. You know, as chambers become larger, it’s interesting in our in our region, we have 24 chambers in our city, which your eyes Brandon’s eyes got big right now. And it’s like, there’s a lot of choices, right. But chambers are in a very unique position to think innovatively creatively, to work with their cities to do the same. I see Chambers as really the leader that helps cities grow and flourish and become the city of the future. And that all depends upon your team, your team has to have that acumen. Right. They have to be that innovative, passionate, hard working mindset in order to do that, but I really see chambers being this, the leaders to help drive those cities for the future thinking of placemaking opportunities, you know, like, what can we do? Mayor, you know, what can we do a mayor city of West Des Moines to create placemaking opportunities that we don’t have here that helps attract the best talent. Maybe we have an indoor, I don’t know, an indoor downhill ski resort. You know, again, we don’t have mountains or an ocean and palm trees. But think big, like, what are the things that we don’t have that will attract and draw, and I listened to a podcast this morning. I love podcasting. It’s so fun. And they talked about small cities being Guinness book world record holders at on various things. One is the largest ball of twine. Okay, but it’s, but it’s a city attraction mechanism. It is, you know, it’s like this draws this ball of twine draws people to the city. So you know, so I see the Chamber’s as as real innovative hub to help cities build the city of the future. And if cities work together like we do, we have a really strong relationship with our city. And we work closely together because they are just incredible. We all have common goals, right. But I see us as the real innovators, that’s going to propel a city forward.

Brandon Burton 33:52
I love that great, great answer. Great response. I live podcast too. So clearly. Katherine, I wanted to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for listeners who might want to reach out and connect with you and learn more about how you guys are doing things there in West Des Moines. What would be the best way for them to reach out and connect?

Connect with Katherine Harrington

Katherine Harrington 34:13
Yeah, sure. My email katherine@wdmchamber.org. And you can see all of our contact information at wdmchamber.org. Our hashtag we’re using is #GoWestWDM and my cell phone number which never leaves my hip Much to my husband’s chagrin is 515-689-4447.

Brandon Burton 34:47
Right now, I’ll get that in the show notes for this episode as well. So anybody listening can go there to find that contact information. But Katherine, this has been great having you on the show. Great discussion, you guys. We’re making a huge impact in your city. And I wish you guys Best of luck as chamber the year.

Katherine Harrington 35:05
Thank you, Brandon. I just want to say, you know, I, I steer the ship, but I don’t you know, I don’t I don’t drive it. Well, I steer it but I don’t. I don’t I’m not the engine, right? Yeah engine of the ship as our team and they are incredible people. And they’re so smart, and they’re so intelligent, I learn something new from them every day. And our board. Our committees are, you know, I could go on and on and on hundreds of members, they’re just all in it together. And I love it so much. So it’s not about me, it’s about our village and our beautiful community and people that support it. So thank you to the chamber team.

Brandon Burton 35:47
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Paducah Area Chamber-ACCE Chamber of the Year Finalist with Sandra Wilson

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Below is an auto-generated transcription of my conversation with Sandra Wilson. Because this is auto-generated there are likely some grammatical errors but it is still a useful tool to search text within this podcast episode.

Feel free to join our Chamber Chat Champions Facebook Group to discuss this episode and to share your own experiences and tips with other Chamber Champions.

Introduction

Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

And now your host he enjoys reading personal development books. He’s my dad Brandon.

Hello, chamber champions. Welcome to the Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your host Brandon Burton, and it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

Our title sponsor is Holman Brothers Membership Sales Solutions. Let’s hear from Diane Rogers, President and CEO of the Rancho Cordova Area Chamber to learn how the Holman Brothers have provided value for her.

Diann Rogers 0:46
As a medium sized chamber, we recognize that it’s absolutely critical to have a well qualified and well trained membership development person. Holman Brothers trained that person, recruited that person then they even trained me on how to manage that person. We’re grateful for the support we got.

Brandon Burton 1:00
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Your audience is waiting to hear from you as a convener of leaders and influencers champion for business and catalyst for change within your community.

I just launched a Chamber Podcast Course with the goal to get your very own podcast started within 30 days. Visit chamberchatpodcast.com/pivot. To learn more and to enroll in the chamber podcast course today. For a limited time as a launch promotion. This course is being offered at a 25% discount. Be sure to purchase the course today to lock in your savings before the price goes up., even if you’re not ready to start right away. Again, that’s chamberchatpodcast.com/pivot.

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Guest Introduction

This is a special episode and our 2022 ACCE chamber the year finalist series and our guests for this episode is Sandra Wilson. Sandra is President and CEO of the Paducah Area Chamber of Commerce in Kentucky. She joined the chamber in 2013 after working 26 years for a large manufacturer as Public Affairs Manager. As a community volunteer. She was the first woman to serve as Chairman of the Board of the Paducah area Chamber in 1996. And later also the first woman to chair the Paducah Economic Development Board. on a statewide level, she served as chairman of the Kentucky Manufacturers Association and on the boards of the Kentucky Chamber of Commerce and leadership, Kentucky. She’s a graduate from Murray State University Leadership, Kentucky and leadership but Paducah.

Sandra, I’m excited to have you with me today on chamber chat podcast. Congratulations being selected as a chamber of the year finalist. Why don’t you take a few minutes to say hello to all the Chamber Champions and share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better.

Sandra Wilson 3:11
Oh, thank you, Brandon. It’s it’s my honor to be on your show today. We really appreciate the opportunity to talk about the our chamber here in our community. And so thank you for this invitation. We were thrilled to be named to finalists for chamber of the year. It’s tough competition. It’s a lot of work. And so we’re very excited about it. The Paducah Area Chamber of Commerce, of course is located in Western Kentucky. We are a city of about 26,000 and a county that includes our city of about 65,000. We’ve been around a long time. We were established in the I don’t know that 80 years ago, we have over 900 members. And we just wake up every morning and go to sleep every night thinking about how we can make our community better. I bet you hear that a lot. But that’s that’s what we do. We say that anyway, it’s a great honor to serve our community. For me, you know, I did work in manufacturing for many years, and was always active with the chamber. So when I in 2013, I had the opportunity to become the president and CEO of the chamber. I was like yes, yes pick me. I’m so excited to be in this role. For a fun fact. I years ago many years ago was on the prices right? And it wasn’t the hour long version. It was a nighttime version. They were trying out with Tom Kennedy as the host who is also from Kentucky. That’s a story with itself. And I was in Watch out in California and they interview you or they did at the time and they asked me where I was from and I said Paducah, Kentucky. It’s halfway between monkey’s eyebrow and Possum Trot. And I’ll never forget the like one of the three selectors looking at me say are those names was a rural towns? And I was like, yes, yes, they are. And they said, What are you doing live in there? And I just kind of made a joke about what I’ve been asking myself that same question. So then I got on the show and was a big winner. Then about two years after that, somebody was at the movie theater, and they called me and said, You’re in a movie. And so I was in the movie, the flight of the Navigator. It’s a really fun kids movie. And the little boy is gone in a spaceship, and he’s trying to get home. And the family is trying to help him talk him into getting home, and they’re watching television or the television is on in their den. And at one part in the movie, the whole movie screen goes to the TV screen. And it’s Tom Kennedy and me standing there in the process, right? So I’ve been in a Disney movie, I’ve been on the process, right, and just had a great time. I guess I want career.

Brandon Burton 5:58
That is awesome. I love that I’d love asking this question because I get to learn these these neat things. Now I need to rewatch flight of the Navigator. We watched it during the COVID pandemic with our kids. And I can introduce them to that. But I need to go back on the Disney plus now in what three watch that.

Sandra Wilson 6:15
It’s a fun movie. And you know, I also work with our leadership pudica program. And so every year, you know, when you’re getting to know each other, I usually kind of tell that story about it. And it does. It’s not too long before somebody will either find that section in the movie, or I’ve even I tell them if they become the best class ever. I will show them the video of when I’m on the process, right? Because there’s kind of a funny moment at the end when I do when the showcase. And Tom Kennedy comes up to me and says Sandra, what do you have to say, and I just kind of froze and said, pitch me is this rail, and sock almost kind of feel that way now about being a finalist of chamber of the year. It’s just such an honor and such a thrill.

Brandon Burton 6:56
That is awesome, good, good loop coming, bringing it full circle back to the chamber of the year. So you mentioned a little bit about your chamber that you know just over 900 members and tell us a little bit more maybe you know Scope of Work size of staff budget, things like that just to help give us a better idea. Before we get into our discussion.

About the Paducah Area Chamber

Sandra Wilson 7:18
Here we have a staff of five, myself, we have a vice president of operations. We have a Member Services Director, a programs and public policy director and then our administrative assistant. So we are a small staff that we’re very mighty. And we run a lot of different programs. I would say the Paducah chamber is probably known the most for our advocacy efforts. And I think that’s one reason why I was chosen for this position as well is because I’ve been working in advocacy, really my entire career. I worked for a paper mill before and worked on stateless at the state legislature on the state level. And on the federal level, I’ve always gone to our state capitol, I’ve always gone to DC, some so I knew all of that. And we have been very involved with advocacy. We have the Department of Energy site here that closed in 2013, the week before actually started at the chamber. So we knew that things were going to be changing. They had been in operations for 5060 years. And they were closing, but they’re still going to be here another 3040 years in the cleanup phase. So we had to start working on getting that in place, making sure that the contractors were going to be part of the community that we were going to get the funding that we needed. So those are things that in our advocacy efforts. We’re known for going to DC and asking. And I’ve been told back senators and our congressmen that we’re not scared to ask, you know, Ron, pretty, we’re pretty persistent. When we say something that our community needs, and we try to be organized, we try to make our case, be respectful, and really push for things that we need from the federal level and from the state level.

Brandon Burton 9:00
That that helps. And the advocacy work is so important to and I’m glad to see you guys have grasped on to that. And that’s kind of your area of expertise as far as work at your chamber. Yes, thank

Sandra Wilson 9:13
you. It is a it is a big part of us. I would think I would also say that we really have added a lot for small business. We started a cohort program in 2021. We had 16 to graduate from it. We used to nationally known author Mike McCalla wits is booked fixes next. He actually we contracted with him to join us for two sessions. So we we’ve done a lot of seminars and you know, when COVID hit, all of us had to change the way we were running our chambers. And so we did that we pivoted we wanted to help our small businesses to stay in business. We brought in a lot of resources for them, to help them into advise them. And so I think that’s some They’ll set we’re known for and then really just being a convener of people through a lot of our different programs. We have just finished our 35th year for leadership Paducah. We just finished our 11th year for our youth league program. We have a really active particular young professionals program. We’ve started some other set to intern initiative. So all of that some time kind of ties into workforce because we know every place is short of workers. And we’re all trying to get those. So we’ve encouraged our employers to hire interns, and then we’ve encouraged them to have the interns get involved with us, because we want them to work with young professionals and to fall in love with our community and want to come back here and live and work.

Brandon Burton 10:45
I love that. So for our topic for our discussion today, being that this is a chamber the year finalist episode, what I like to do is focus on the two programs synopsis you guys submitted with your chamber that your application will dive into that discussion with those programs as soon as they get back from this quick break.

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All right, Sandra, we are back. Why don’t you tell us maybe just at a high level first what the two programs are that you guys submitted on your your chamber that your application and then we’ll circle back around into a little more detail on each of them.

Topic-Chamber of the Year Application Programs

Sandra Wilson 14:04
Great, I think the application boy it really helps you evaluate what you’ve done. And so we had part of our advocacy efforts had been to work with the FAA through the Department of Transportation, the US Department of Transportation and with our state about our airport. We are one EPA is one of only five commercial airports in Kentucky. We had united service to Chicago for two flights a day with through the local cons of local carrier with Sky West and we are an EIS airport, which is the central air service. So we do get a subsidy from the federal government on that. And we were operating out of a terminal that was built in 1953. So it really was preventing us from growing and so thinking back this was written 2018 and 2019 there was I’m the actually the call about the possibility of us being able to get 20 million from the Federal Aviation Administration to replace our old terminal came to the political chamber. So we took that on. And we’ve worked very closely to raise the money. And we have, you know, the community itself has been very successful in getting that money. And we had a groundbreaking and have that under construction right now to get a new airport terminal here. Excuse me, the second one, the second program that we submitted was called leaders for the future. And we, during COVID, you know, we were working really hard to keep all of our leadership programs viable and relevant. But you know, when you’ve got 30, or 40, people on Zoom calls, and they’re listening to speakers all day, it kind of totally changes the direction or changes the focus of your leadership programs. So it really helped us just there were two things that helped us to establish our second synopsis. And that was the Leadership Center. And we had a foundation with our leadership for the foundation. And we thought that that would be a way to expand our funding was to use our foundation, which many chambers do, we’ve had our change our foundations, and we felt like we wanted to grow that. So we raised half a million dollars in our community during COVID, to establish the leadership center so that we could enhance our current program and expand our program as well.

Brandon Burton 16:29
So talk let’s talk about that one. First that talk to us a little bit more about the leadership center. Is that a physical location where people come in is that in general, kind of the the infrastructure is it both tell us what that is exactly what it’s,

Sandra Wilson 16:47
it’s housed here at the chamber. And I would say our goal for this that we really focused on in our synopsis was establishing the Leadership Center and raising the funding for it and determining the direction. So we there was a gentleman by the name of Dr. Nick brake, who’s with Western Kentucky University, who had done a study of small cities and some of the things that they were lacking. And we looked through that and studied it and Lee studied it studied Paducah. And leadership training was a was something that was missing on a on a broader level. So that’s where we felt like we could come in, we had a proven track record with our leadership, Paducah class, and our youth lead and our young professionals and the different programs that are involved with that. And we felt like we could expand and enhance that programming. And to make it stronger. We also are active with association of leadership programs. It’s a national organization for leadership programs. And you see, in the end, those about a lot of leadership centers are indeed separate independent in their community and that half are run through the chamber. We want to keep all of that bass through the chamber. We just wanted to make it a new branding, I would guess a new branding and a new way to enhance all of our programming.

Brandon Burton 18:08
Okay. All right. So it sounds like you already had the foundation setup before you went down that road. What was the basis for the foundation? How long have you had that I’d like to share more information about that for chambers that maybe don’t have a foundation set up yet. And the value in having one and being able to leverage that to further the mission of your chamber.

Sandra Wilson 18:32
Well, of course, if you’re involved with ACCE, you know how important foundations are, and they’ve really focused a lot of the attention on that. And I appreciate that because it is a new way to change some of your funding and to leverage being a 501 C three foundation. So it is a process to go through. We had established ours for the leadership pudica foundation many years ago. And it was it prior to me being here, but it was for our leadership programs that I don’t think we had leveraged as as much as we could. And so we took that on and to try to really make it more visible in the community. We did not want to do a capital campaign to raise money for our leadership center our community had has a lot of capital campaigns going on for other organizations, that was not our intent to compete with those our intent was to just reach out to those that we felt like would want to be with Bob with us on it and we could benefit from it and raise that money in and start the programs.

Brandon Burton 19:37
Okay. Now that that gives a good idea of kind of that that founding and structure leading into that that program. So let’s say circle back with the at the airport terminal. At some point as you guys are going down that path with you know, getting the money for it and kind of seeing In the development of it, the COVID pandemic hits, right. And what were the thoughts as you guys kind of navigated through those waters to see the first when travel in general really got shut down, but then all the other ramifications that have come with that.

Sandra Wilson 20:21
Who could have ever predicted what was going to happen with COVID-19, and how it was going to impact what areas, you know, so many things have rebounded quickly, and travelers certainly rebounded quickly. But we were in the midst of that we had, you know, we have a relative, we’ve gone to DC every year for the last 20 plus years, we take about 50 to 60 people every September, and meet with the Federal Aviation Administration, Department of Transportation with, we also have a large river industry here. So we’re very active with the maritime industry, Mayor Ed in DC, of course, we would meet with most of the all of the congressman from Kentucky, we’ve actually met with Congressman from Tennessee, and some in Mississippi at different times that are on committees that would impact operations that we might have in here. So we had been talking about our terminal for years with the Department of Transportation. And in fact, in 2007, we were in DC and I we we included a copy of this in our application, the front page story, we were on the front page of the newspaper, that FAA was going to give us a certain amount of money at that time that we could use for a new terminal. But we came home and we were going to have to raise a lot of the money ourselves locally. And at that point, you know, just did not happen. The timing was not right, I would say. So circle back, we continue going to DC every year, we continue talking about the Essential Air Service how important that is to us. We build great relationships. And the FAA has a program that will help provide funding for new terminals. And we find out about it. In fact, I love to say the call came in to the chamber that this funding was available and $20 million. And so you had to have a lot of matching funds. There were a lot of qualifications that you had to do to get that 20 million, but we embraced it. We knew that the only way we were going to be able to continue to grow our airport was to have a new terminal. We were very severely restricted for a lot of things out there with our small, almost 70 year old terminal. So we met with the Federal Aviation Administration, we can actually out let me back up and say we convened the people in our community that can make that happen. We made the call to the mayor, we made the call to the board, chair of the airport, the Regional Authority Board for the airport. We brought them together, we coordinated phone calls with the Department of Transportation and then we brought in the Memphis district of the FIA to Paducah. It met with them and started this whole process. But we then it became very evident 20 million was not going to build a new airport terminal. So at that point, we started looking at on a statewide level, because our chamber is also very active in the state. So we have state priorities that we develop every year that we’re working on while our legislature is in session. And so we determined that we were going to ask our state legislature for money for the new terminal as well. About that time, we had a governor’s race going on which booths becoming pretty hotly contested. And so we have hosted forums before and we decided, well, let’s go for a gubernatorial forum, and see if we can get that. And we have a really good reputation for doing those and keeping them nonpartisan and making sure that the crowds very respectful. In fact, when people come to our forums are not allowed to even clap or talk during the forum so that we have the media asking the question, but we typically reserve it where we can ask a chamber related question to so because the airport funding was on our state priorities. That was our question to the current governor and his challenger. Where do you see the state being able to help our Paducah airport, Barclay Regional Airport with racing funds to build a new terminal? And both both knew that that question was going to be on there. They were very prepared and both pledged to help that. So at a minimum of 5 million, we were hoping for more but they both pledged that day for 5 million. So this was in November of 2019. And then, you know, of course there it was there at that form was in October of 2019. So then, the election is done in November and the new governor takes office and we immediately are Frankfort meeting with him at our state capitol reminding him of that pledge. And he comes to Paducah in February of 2020, with a check for $5 million.

And, you know, we have the big announcement at the airport. So, you know, we’re beginning to get a 20 million from FAA, we see other funding we can apply for with FAA, we’re getting the 5 million from the state. So we’re beginning to build so much momentum. And then of course, COVID, hit March of 2020. But we didn’t give up because we knew that once COVID was passed, that we really did feel like the air, you know, people would begin to travel again. And we wanted to have our new terminal ready for when that happened. Never would we have imagined that we would have the pilot shortage that we have. Now, I don’t know how you could have predicted that. But you know, the major airlines have a lot of their pilots over 6000 have retired during COVID. So they have been utilizing smaller airport terminals, smaller airline carriers, getting those pilots to go to work for them. So there’s just a shortage right now of pilots. But we haven’t stopped. I mean, we are continuing, we may be changing carriers or a lot of things that may be changing with the airport. But we still have a new terminal under construction, we’ve ended up raising over $42 million for it, our city and our county both are participating in it, we were able to get more money for during the COVID many. So we are in a really good place right now for the airport. And we felt you know that we helped to launch that and feel very proud that to play the role that we did to get the thing going on the funding.

Brandon Burton 26:43
So you had mentioned you know how often you guys are going to Washington and and you know, advocating for for Paducah. How is it that you had mentioned you got a call about the FFA FAA funding? How is it that you are on their radar? Is it because of your trips to Washington and those relationships that you built you built over the years? Or how did that had? Looking back? How do you see things as they came together?

Sandra Wilson 27:11
Well, I do think it’s relationships and, and being vocal about what you need. You know, our senators and our congressmen knew that we wanted to try to get funding for a new terminal, that we were growing our airport, it’s very important for our economy in this community. And we’re very proud to be one of only five airports in Kentucky commercial airports. It was, you know, we had two flights a day go into Chicago, and they were both full pre COVID. And that has been picking back up. It’s I think, you know, it’s it’s critical that you know, the people you have relationships, and they know your needs.

Brandon Burton 27:53
Yeah. And I think I love this program, because when you think back 70 years ago, I mean, I wasn’t around, but the technology and aircraft alone, and how it syncs up with these terminals and everything, I’m sure, yeah, it was overdue for an upgrade, just to keep up with the times and technologies.

Sandra Wilson 28:15
You know, they’re one thing about in community sometimes or in with with chambers, I think sometimes we can be humble. And we, we like to put the credit to others in our community. And so it’s hard for us to say, well, we helped lead that effort. But we did I mean in. And I think that’s what that was kind of a good process to be able to talk about that. In the in the synopsis, we had all of the research from the airport about why we would need a new terminal we’d been fighting for, you know, looking for funding for years. And it just all finally came together. And it takes an organization like a chamber of commerce, that has the the the knowledge and the grit, and the willingness to take it on and really to help push. Now, again, I’m going to say we’re just what we were one part of it, I’m gonna push all a lot of the credit, our city and county both got involved. We had a great air later at the airport, you know, their board was very active. So you know, it’s a lot of credit goes to a lot of organizations and individuals that we were very proud to have played our part to help get it launched and to bring people together to begin the discussion. And to have the attitude that yes, the time is now we can do this. Why would we wait? Why would we not embrace the fact that we we can make this happen?

Brandon Burton 29:44
Right. And I believe that you do need to talk about those wins, those influences you’ve had in the community and showing that you’re able to convene those leaders and influencers to make something happen. Otherwise, how do those leaders and influencers realize how to get some something big like this done in the future if they don’t fully understand the role of the chamber as a convener as a champion as a catalyst, you need to be talking about it. So good job to you guys. Thank you. I wanted to ask you has it as the chamber, the year finalist, how do you see the role of the Paducah chamber in your community?

Sandra Wilson 30:22
We are a strong convener of people, we are a I hope people would look to us as the leader, that if they have an at an advocacy issue, and we saw that during COVID-19, a lot, you know, a lot of companies would call us and ask us specific questions, and we knew who to put them involved with. If we didn’t have the answer ourselves, we were connecting them with Department of unemployment or the Small Business Administration. So a connector, a convener and a leader. Those are some of the roles that we really embrace the most.

Brandon Burton 30:55
I love that and such important roles as well. So I’d like to asking if you might have any tips or action items for listeners who may want to take their chamber up to the next level, what would you suggest that they maybe look at or try implementing at their chamber,

Action Item/Tip for Chamber Champions

Sandra Wilson 31:14
I think it’s important that you have a strong board that support you. And looking at the big picture of what your community needs, and you can’t, you may not be able to be all things to everybody, but maybe you pick up the things that you see are the most important and that your board is supportive of, and just really work on them. I know I’m you know, I can be persistent, hidden and probably pushy sometimes. But if we have an issue that we believe in so much, and that our community has identified as really important way, I just feel like we have to fight for it, we have to go for it, and try to do things that will help your community to grow and be a stronger community. So I think you have to have strong leadership. And you have to have a great plan, a strategic plan of where you want to go and what’s important to your community.

Brandon Burton 32:16
Yeah, I think it’s so important to have that strong supportive board. And to realize that you as the chamber, you have some some direction, on who those people are, how they support you, like, dive in deep and learn how to work with a board to develop a strong supportive board. So

Sandra Wilson 32:37
very important, you can’t you have to have a strong board, we’ve talked about that we had a training in Kentucky this week, where we just talked a little bit about board orientation, recruiting board members, onboarding them, and I just can’t stress enough how important it is that you have the right people on your board.

Brandon Burton 33:00
And I’m sure every time you hear a training on board development, you always hear something like, oh, yeah, and it may not be something brand new, but it’s like, I need to do that better, or I need to implement that. But you know, it’s usually stuff you’ve heard before, but it’s how to make it all work as a well oiled machine.

Sandra Wilson 33:18
Absolutely. I came away with notes this week. And I’ve been doing this for a long time now. But you know, on the legal side, the financial side, the obligation side, those are the things you know, we have, we do have a strong board, and we have great board meetings, and we have great participation. But boy, then you start talking deducted. I have reminded them of that, do they understand that all of these others, the simple things, I like to look at the big picture things,

Brandon Burton 33:44
right? Absolutely. So I like asking everyone I have on the show, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Future of Chambers

Sandra Wilson 33:54
Why ICC is doing a lot of study on that, how to build a chamber for the future. And I know that they have a lot of information about it. But I think you have to be ready to be the leader in your community, and be accepting of that role. And be willing to do that. And I going back to what we’ve talked about earlier, you have to determine what’s important for you and for your community and be really willing to take that leadership role. And let’s face it, every community has different issues, you know, larger communities have may be able to take on different projects in what we would larger chambers can take on different issues in what we can with a staff of five. So you have to be collaborative with other organizations in your community if you’re a small community and, and be willing to have courage. I would think that with courage and purpose those are two words that ICCE talks about and I would say amen to that you have to lead with courage and purpose.

Brandon Burton 35:00
I love that. So Sandra, I wanted to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for listeners who may want to reach out and learn more about how you’re doing things. They’re in Paducah what would be the best way for them to reach out and connect with you.

Connect with Sandra Wilson

Sandra Wilson 35:16
Well, my direct email is swilson@paducahchamber.org. I’m going to spell Paducah. It’s p a ducah.org. But it could chamber.org. Or if you forget s Wilson, you can always send it to info at Paducah, chamber.org. And it’ll come to me, always happy to help. I have gone through the IBM program with the US Chamber. And, you know, I’m not saying I have it all down, Pat. But I’m happy to tell you this challenges that we’ve seen, the trial and errors we’ve gone through and the successes we’ve had that have been some of the big, you know, just great celebrations, and I believe in celebrating the wins when you have them and in our community. And you need to look for those every day to try to celebrate the things that you’re doing right and not get caught up in the little things that are in the weeds. And I’m talking to myself right now, while I’m saying that to you because it’s easy to do. And in our meeting earlier this week with other chamber execs, if you’re not in the chamber world, you don’t really understand what goes on in the chamber world. And so we have to really support each other. And that’s why I’m always happy to talk to anyone and support them in any way that I can.

Brandon Burton 36:28
I love that. And that is such a great trait amongst chamber leaders as well being able to offer that support and mentorship. I’ll say that so

Sandra Wilson 36:39
absolutely. Thank you, Brandon for what you do with the podcast that what a great resource for our profession.

Brandon Burton 36:45
Thank you. I enjoy doing it and hope everybody’s getting a lot of value from from listening to people like you that Sandra this has been great having you on the show. Thank you for spending time with us today on Chamber Chat Podcast and wanted to wish you and the Paducah area Chamber Best of luck as chamber of the year.

Sandra Wilson 37:04
Thank you so much. We appreciate it.

Brandon Burton 37:07
If you are a chamber professional, please subscribe to chamber chat podcast

Brandon Burton 33:27
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Being the Sane Center with Bill Connors

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Below is an auto-generated transcription of my conversation with Bill Connors. Because this is auto-generated there are likely some grammatical errors but it is still a useful tool to search text within this podcast episode.

Feel free to join our Chamber Chat Champions Facebook Group to discuss this episode and to share your own experiences and tips with other Chamber Champions.

Introduction

Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Now your host, he is ready for Summer. He’s my dad, Brandon Burton.

Hello Chamber Champions. Welcome to the Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your host, Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

Our title sponsor is Holman Brothers Membership Sales Solutions. Let’s hear from Jason Mock, President and CEO of the San Marcos Area Chamber to learn how the Holman Brothers have provided value for his chamber.

Jason Mock 0:45
Two years ago, we brought in Holman Brothers to help our organization go to that next level. And in those two years, our team has transformed the way that we think about sponsorships and non dues revenue. And I would really encourage you if you’re looking to take your chamber to the next level to bring on the Holman Brothers.

Brandon Burton 1:01
You can learn more about Holman Brothers Membership Sales Solutions by visiting holmanbros.com.

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Guest Introduction

Our guest for this episode is Bill Connors. Bill has been the president and CEO of the Boise Metro Chamber of Commerce since June of 2009. Prior to coming to Idaho Bill had broad national experience in the travel, aviation and convention industries. He was executive director of the world’s largest business travel organization, the Global Business Travel Association, from 2002 to 2009. Prior to that post, he was a senior executive for the American Society of Travel Agents and the travel Institute. President George W. Bush appointed bill to two key aviation panels in Washington DC. The Aviation Security Advisory Committee and the FAA is next gen air transportation system Council. Bill served on the National Board of Directors for the convention Industry Council, the travel business roundtable and the travel Institute. He designed and authored the national travel agency proficiency exam or tip test used throughout North America today. He was a key adviser on Marriott Hotels sales specialist program and the certified travel counselor associate designations. He has been on the Board of Governors for the Alexandria Virginia Convention and Visitor’s Bureau and a member of the GBT A’s sports travel Council. He is a longtime member of the meeting professionals International and the American society of Association Executives. As the national spokesman on travel industry issues he has been featured in or on ABC World News Tonight, CNN CNBC, the USA Today, The New York Times, the LA Times and the Wall Street Journal. He’s frequently testified before the United States Congress on travel industry issues locally. Bill was appointed by Vice Chairman of the Boise airport commission in 2013. He also participates on the Boise chambers travel industry board. He serves on the board of Boise Convention Visitors Bureau, the Pacific Northwest chapter of ASEA and is a member of sky international Boise. He is a member of the US Chamber of Commerce Committee of 100 and has served on the board of ACC. In 2018. He was elected to the board of the United States Travel Association in 2020, he was appointed by the Idaho Senate to the Idaho intrastate Air Service Committee. He was named CEO of influence by the Idaho business review. And the chamber has been named one of the top 10 places to work in Idaho for four years by the same publication. He’s a graduate of St. Lawrence University and holds four master’s degrees. Bill I’m excited to have you with me today here on chamber tap podcast. If you would take a moment to say hello to all the Chamber Champions that are listening and go ahead and share something interesting about yourself so we can continue to get to know you a little bit better.

Bill Connors 4:50
Sure. Well, thank you, Brandon. It’s a it’s an honor and a pleasure to be with you and I appreciate what you do for the chamber industry by getting the word out there Something interesting that doesn’t show up and that very long resume you just read. I’m kind of a minor league baseball Kook baseball cook in general, but I’ve been to all the major league stadiums and and I’m up to 225 Minor League ballparks across the country. And whilst it’s a odd and somewhat obsessive hobby, it has taken me to places I normally wouldn’t go. And every city has got something interesting going on. I mean, normally I wouldn’t plan necessarily a trip to go to Fargo, North Dakota. Yeah. But I wanted to go see the ballpark in Fargo and you discover Fargo is kind of a cool little town. And they’ve got a cool little downtown going on there. And as a chamber guy as a Metro Chamber guy, now, my hobby, I can almost claim as research because I, I check out cities and see what some are doing well and what some are not doing so well. And you know, a lot of cities have the same issues that we have. And it’s so it’s a fun hobby, but it’s also sort of increased my portfolio of knowledge about metro areas across the country. So it’s, it’s been fun, and my wife puts up with it. She’s been to quite a few herself, but she’s happy to let me go and I let her go out some rural trips. And that’s it all works.

Brandon Burton 6:30
Yeah. Now you beat me to it as far as learning about those communities to where those ballparks are because there’s a lot of research that goes on there. And, and I’m sure you can explain that to your accountant. You know, it’s recently

Bill Connors 6:46
I haven’t been successful in that particular. No, write it up.

Brandon Burton 6:53
That’s good. That is a good good pastime, and a lot of fun. I personally like those minor league ballparks, and you see a lot of personality. And I’ll say as you as you travel around and see that so you

Bill Connors 7:07
see families and like I say you get to know the composition of a city, even a place like Las Vegas, where you go to the minor league park and you actually see people you don’t see on the strip, you see families, the people who work in Las Vegas, and it’s, you know, it gives you a whole different picture of every city USA.

Brandon Burton 7:27
That’s right. Well, before we get into our topic today, I’d like to have you give a little bit of background about your chamber, about the Boise Metro Chamber. Just give us an idea of size budget staff just to give some perspective before we jumped into our discussion today.

About the Boise Metro Chamber

Bill Connors 7:46
Sure. Well, the Boise Metro Chamber is almost 150 years old. We are older than the state of Idaho, we predate statehood. So we’ve been around for quite a while. I’ve got about 2000 separate business members. And they represent about 250,000 employees, and like a lot of Metro chambers and got big fortune 500 companies and I’ve got the little sandwich shop down the road. Size wise as far as staff goes. There’s about 14 members of the chamber staff. We also have were consolidated chamber. We also have the Convention Visitors Bureau with us. And we also have the economic development regional economic development agency with us. So total, we’ve got about 2829 staff here.

Brandon Burton 8:41
All right. Well, that does help give some perspective especially, you know, being more regional and having the Economic Development and Tourism and everything under that umbrella as well. It’s a unique characteristic and some definite advantages that come with that and being able to leverage some of those different things. But for our topic for discussion today, we settled on the the topic of being the same senator, which I’m looking forward to getting into this discussion with you, especially with what today’s political climate looks like. I think this is a very timely topic to discuss. So we’ll we’ll get into that as soon as we get back from this quick break.

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Topic-Being the Sane Center

All right, Bill, we’re back. So as I mentioned before the break, we’re focusing our discussion about chambers being the same center. And we hear that saying quite often throughout chamber world. But I think in practice, it can become very difficult when you especially when you have very polarizing points of view on either side. And you guys have introduced a program there your chamber where you can kind of address this head on? Why don’t you take a few minutes and tell us about that program and kind of how that’s developed.

Bill Connors 12:19
Sure, we, during the pandemic, you know, when a lot of things were getting pretty dicey politically, not just here, but everywhere, you know, mask mandate versus not mask mandate, people just generally becoming nasty to each other about things. And you would think at a moment in time like that the country would unify itself a little bit, but we didn’t see that. So one of our members, who is a former state legislator, who now runs an association called the association of Idaho cities, talked to us and said, you know, we need to do something to try to create some civility, not just at the statehouse, but you know, within our own lives. So we started a series, a web series called In Search of civility, whereby we had, we invited people from both parties talked about one particular issue, and let the Republican have their five minutes of here’s what I think let the Democrat have, here’s what I think. And maybe have a more conservative Republican, here’s what I think and a more liberal democrat, here’s what I think. And just let him sort of go at it. And by the end of each one of these broadcasts, we, we have moderators that would sort of bring people to the center and say, you know, there are things you can agree on around this issue. What are those things? And like you said, how do we get to that sane center? Because that’s where I think most Americans are. It’s just the far ends of the political spectrum seem to have the loudest voices right now. So it was our attempt to give voice more to the Seine center, that messy middle, if you will, and it was highly successful. We had, we didn’t have any problems getting people to sponsor that we, we have tons of listeners every week. And again, when you’re talking about touchy issues, everybody wants to tune in and hear what’s going on.

Brandon Burton 14:38
That’s why news channels do so well. Right? Is it they’re polarized? So they do it for the negative emotions, where you guys have the polarizing for a positive purpose, which Yeah, that would sell sponsorships.

Bill Connors 14:50
Absolutely. And again, I think what it did is at least bring some legislators who were warring against each other to the table too. At least talk about why they feel the way they feel. And, and learn a little about them as human beings. That’s the other sad thing both I saw in Washington and my time there. And in any state capitol is, it’s become so polarized, people don’t talk to each other anyway, they don’t go out and have lunch together anymore. And if you, if you know people’s families, and you know who they are, you’re less likely to get nasty behind the scenes. And again, this was our small little attempt to, again, try to carve out some sanity in some of these touchy discussions. And again, it was very, very popular, and we’re going to keep doing it.

Brandon Burton 15:44
And I think that’s so key for chambers, especially in today’s world, with social media and everything, you can watch news channels and, and jump on one side of the boat, you know, left or right. And then you follow a group on Facebook, that’s like minded. And even if you don’t follow the group, those algorithms are going to put that more of what you agree with in front of you. And it makes everybody that sees things sees the world differently than you to be wrong. And it’s not a matter of right or wrong necessarily as it’s different perspective. And as that happens, it separates people to where you’re not talking to one another about the real issues, because you’re only talking to others that are like minded, and that causes even more of that division. I’m curious what some of these topics were, if you can just, you know, name off some of these topics that you guys covered in this in search of civility series.

Bill Connors 16:43
Sure. A lot of it around the COVID mandates. You know, we we were fairly open state. But some on the far right, felt we weren’t open enough and requiring masks and the whole nine yards. And pushing against that. And others, of course, we’re on the other side of it. And like you said that our whole purpose was to try to try to have Fox News meet, see us NBC, on our little program. And that’s what it provided, it provided me here’s my rationale for why I think this way. And we tackled all sorts of issues that pop up in our legislature, just like I think it’ll pop up in your Texas Legislature. You know, there’s there’s gun control issues, they’re just issues of every kind, particularly social issues that get people wound up. But again, I think the pandemic probably pitted more people against how are you going to regulate health? You know, we have discussions around who’s got the authority, our health districts, or the governor or the legislature? And, and who, who really, are the authorities? Or do we trust the doctors and the healthcare industry? That’s, you know, to me, the experts? Or do we listen to the extremes on both sides? So, so yeah, lots and lots of different issues. But again, the point is, let’s hear both sides, try to get people to at least know who the other person is. And get them talking. And I gotta admit, and I don’t think it has much to do with us. But this legislative session was much tamer than the last one than last years. And I can’t say that we can take credit for that. But if we move the needle even a little bit, that’s a good thing.

Brandon Burton 18:57
I was gonna ask what sort of outcomes you saw from that? Hopefully, that was an outcome from this. But maybe before I asked that question, Was this on YouTube or what? What platform did you use to facilitate the show this series? Yeah,

Bill Connors 19:13
it was on all of our social networks, YouTube, Facebook, the whole nine yards. We used a service called stream yard. And yeah, like I said, the viewership was was pretty significant. And again, while we were a lot of chambers are kind of shut down in terms of doing events. We created a lot of online kind of programming. Not just this programming, which, again, we’re pretty proud of but but hundreds of programs about how to utilize the federal resources that are coming in. We didn’t want to be one of these places that just posted the federal regulations on here’s how to apply for a PPP loan. We have experts get on Zoom calls and explain, here’s how you can get your application to the top of a bank’s inbox. You know, Pratt going through practically and explaining how to how to fill things out. Because again, if you’re just posting regs, who’s, who’s got the expertise to read through that stuff. So again, using using zoom and using social media, we took full advantage of that during the last couple of years. But I’m happy to say we’re, we’re doing events again, and we will have one up for 600 people next week. So

Brandon Burton 20:36
we’re back in business. That’s great. Yeah, I mean, it’s a brave thing when you go into the world of social media and put this type of content out there, because it’s open up to, you know, comments and criticism and sharing and do whatever else that that goes on there. Did you have to do any sorts of controls or moderation? Or how did you approach that?

Bill Connors 20:58
Yeah, we we had a pretty tech savvy moderator. And if you were able to read everything in the chat, you wouldn’t be in a pretty sight some of it. And we were able to edit out some of the bad stuff. But again, that our purpose isn’t to highlight the extremes, it’s to highlight that, how do we get to the middle ground? So while I didn’t think we were censoring anything, we also didn’t want the conversations to break down into ugly feud. So that wasn’t the purpose of the thing.

Brandon Burton 21:35
So you can take the most ugliest comments, and they can be one of your next guests. You know, you just pit him against somebody on the opposite side. And

Bill Connors 21:43
well, yeah, we did a little bit of that. Yeah. Yeah.

Brandon Burton 21:47
It’s just It’s a never ending supply of content. That’s true. So is this, uh, are you guys continuing the insert disability program? Or is that something that was more focused during the COVID times, or

Bill Connors 22:02
we’re gonna continue, we’re gonna continue it. And as a matter of fact, we’re giving one of our highest awards to, to this gal I mentioned earlier, a former legislator who came up with this idea. And we’re giving her a big award on Tuesday, just to highlight the that particular program. So we’ll keep it keep it going.

Brandon Burton 22:24
That’s great. I know, there’s a former a co worker that I’ve talked with a lot, and we see things very differently politically. But things never get ugly between us when we talk because we’re able to be civil about it, we’re able to recognize you’d have your view of the world, I have my view, and there is a lot more that overlaps than what doesn’t overlap, and to be able to help bring up that common ground, and really just elevate society in general. And unfortunately, these social media companies and new major news outlets, they’ve got so much control over our attention, that it just steals our attention away to tell this negative. So the more positive discussions, positive unity that we can provide is so important in chambers are that place to be that same center and and they say that that’s how, you know if you’re being successful, right? Is it the far right, thanks, you’re too liberal on the far left thinks you’re way too conservative, then you’re doing a good job.

Bill Connors 23:30
Yeah. Well, no matter where you stand on an issue, you’re gonna lose a couple people on either side. Sometimes that’s hard for me to fathom, but that’s the nature of the business.

Brandon Burton 23:43
Yeah. So had any of the discussions or outcomes from these discussions? Help project anything as far as advocacy goes from your your efforts there?

Bill Connors 23:56
Well, yeah, like I said, the this legislative legislative session was a lot tamer, we had a lot of what we called crazy bills that appeared. And most of those were shut down by our Senate, which is a little more rational. And we were able to stop some of the really crazy stuff. You know, that we had a and it not all of it was about the pandemic. I mean, there. Like I said, touchy issues when it’s critical race theory being taught in the universities, that kind of thing. We killed a lot of those crazy bills. And again, I can’t We can’t take credit for our little, our little program. But the discussions at the legislature this year actually produced some bipartisan agreements and some good things for business, which of course is what we’re all about. We got both I used to agree on a personal income tax cut, and a business tax cut, and at the same time increased our education spending to record levels this year, because we had a pretty nice surplus going into this. So yeah, I think I think in general, good things happen when you can get people talking to each other. And as you’ve been talking about, just keep stressing the the majority of Idahoans, the majority of Americans are somewhere in that middle, or not way out on the fringes, even though the fringes might be the loudest. Most of us are in the middle. And that’s where you get stuff done. And we got stuff done this year.

Brandon Burton 25:48
That’s great. And then the trick is, tends to be the fringes show up to vote. So how do you get that that segment of the population that doesn’t show up to vote or to share their opinion to voice or to share their voice? How do you get them engaged?

Bill Connors 26:06
Yeah, and that’s part of what we do, too. We do candidate forums, we do a lot of voter education kinds of things. But you’re right, there’s a, you know, it’s almost shameful. If you look at the percentage of voters in the primary elections, which, here in Idaho, become particularly important. Whoever wins the Republican primary in many areas of the state becomes the candidate. And very few, you know, I think it’s 17 18% of the people who are eligible to vote in primaries. But this is a big one this year for us. And I think we’re going to have our governor has a primary challenge. Our lieutenant governor has a primary challenge. Our State School Superintendent has a primary challenge, our Secretary of State has a primary challenge, our Attorney General has a primary challenge. So when those big statewide offices show up, we make a point of, hey, this is one of the most important elections we’ll have in a decade. So at least as far as Idaho is concerned. So get out there and vote on May 17, which is our primary day.

Brandon Burton 27:21
Yeah. So we currently as we’re talking right now, we have a school bond election going on in our area, and, and we’re in a small community in North Texas, just outside of Dallas, and our areas just been exploding with new growth. And a lot of people from out of state moving here. And we have a very small school district, and there’s a big need to accommodate, you know, all the classrooms are already full. So this bond has been proposed. And it’s a thing, it’s a $380 million bond, I mean, something, it’s a big amount of money. And my wife happens to work for the school district. So some of the early numbers, they could send me you don’t get all the data. But when there, as of about three days ago, there had been 500 votes cast in total. Those 500 votes are dictating $380 million worth of bonds, and then only about 80% of those votes for people that have no affiliation with the school district. So they don’t work for the school. They don’t have kids in the school, they don’t have. And it’s like, I don’t know what you do to get people engaged to vote for what matters show up, because it matters either way, you know, on a bond issue a state, you know, elections, you know, Senate’s governor’s national elections, that all matters, and to get them to see, you know, especially the things and your community level, this is going to affect property taxes, like you need to voice your opinion, you need to go cast your votes. So

Bill Connors 29:03
well, you guys in Texas are going through what we’re going through, and that is, you know, 1000s and 1000s of people moving in a lot from California. We have on the average in 75 people a day moving into the Boise Metro. The majority of those are from California, the rest are from Seattle, the Bay Area. La and you’re right i mean it’s we have to rebuild our infrastructure to to accommodate all these things, whether it’s schools, roads, transit, you name it. And you know, the natives get restless. Let’s face it, but you know, it’s part of the Our job is chambers to let people know that, hey, growth is not necessarily a bad thing. Yes, your property tax free will probably look a little different. But so does the value of your home all of a sudden, you have some way health equity that you didn’t have, you know, five years ago. And I know that’s hard to tell somebody who’s living on a fixed income. But that’s one of the issues, by the way that, you know, we I really think we’ve got to rethink how we fund public education. You know, I hear a lot of it depends on property tax. But our legislature also, more than half our budget goes to public education. And I just think we have to rethink how we fund it. And one of the things we did this year and and it was one of those bipartisan agreements, was offer every school district in the state of Idaho, offer all the teachers to go on the state’s MediCal benefit plan, which is much more robust, robust than some of the local districts can afford. And really was a boon to local school districts in terms of affordability, because it benefit packages are one of the biggest cost centers for, for any school district, and with the state, stepping in to really lower rates significantly, and then 1000s of dollars to every single teachers benefit package. And that was a bill that everybody agreed on, on both sides. For the very issue that you’re talking about, you know, eventually, what you’re looking at is, hey, maybe we don’t have to go out for a bond, if we can successfully funded schools in a creative way.

Brandon Burton 31:36
Right? Yeah, that’s a great point. But I wanted to to ask you, if you might have a tip or action item that you’d like to share for Chamber Champions listening to help take their chamber up to the next level?

Action Item/Tip for Chamber Champions

Bill Connors 31:53
Well, I don’t think it’ll be any surprise to anybody who your listeners, I think we as chambers, are going to have to, at least in the next five to 10 years really focused on workforce issues. This, you know, shortage of workers is everywhere, in every industry, and it’s going to be a problem for us. And so, you know, talent, retention, talent, attraction, those are going to be key issues. For us. That’s, again, why we’ve invested a lot of resource into some of our young professional programs, because I think, if you’ve got a good effective young professional program, that is a talent retention tool, if you get people engaged, they’re less likely to move from your community to another one. And we have one of the largest young professional programs out there. So I think that’s something that’s got to be on all of our radars. And then here, like I said, we’re fairly unique, there’s only a handful of chambers that have all three entities under one roof, the Economic Development Group, the Convention Visitors Bureau, which we merged in with us a few years ago. And I’ll tell you, it’s, it’s, it’s good for to two big reasons. One, the efficiency you get toward from for the community, you don’t need three sets of accountants and three sets of receptionists and three buildings, and three, you know, we think we give this community a lot more bang for the buck by consolidating. But what I see is more important, is the synergy between the three groups where in a lot of cities, those three groups are separate. They’re all competing for the same resources, and oftentimes are competing with each other. And here, the strategic nature of getting all three of them to work together give a classic example if I if we got time. Yeah. So my economic development guy who’s right down the hall, comes to me a couple years ago says, Hey, we’re getting a lot of inquiries about data centers coming to Idaho. And I said, why? Well, because Idaho has got plenty of water. We’ve got affordable electricity, and we don’t have natural disasters, and that’s what they are looking for. And I said, why aren’t we getting them? Then? He says, Well, what we don’t have that 17 other states do have is a tax exemption on equipment. And these things are very equipment dependent. So the chamber guy and our advocacy group goes to the legislature gets a bill passed to get a tax exemption on equipment. Then I walked down the hall to my Convention and Visitor’s Bureau gal and say, see if you can get the National Association of data center managers convention to come to Boise, who better than to have five of those people walking around town. And sure enough, this year, we just got announced MIT from Facebook, they’re gonna build a huge data centers. But that’s, that’s three other organizations all working together to help get something done. We’re in. Whereas I think in a lot of places, those organizations sort of compete not only for resource, but you know, trying to claim victory for one thing. But we’re all in the same business, we’re promoting our particular city or state. So, you know, my advice, and I know a lot of people don’t like to hear this, but work as closely as you can with your economic development guys and your year’s Convention and Visitor’s Bureau people.

Brandon Burton 35:39
I think that’s a great tip, if you are able to get a lot more leverage and a lot more bang for your buck, as you’re saying, by being able to combine those resources as much as possible. So I like asking everyone this question, as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Future of Chambers

Bill Connors 36:01
Yeah, I think we’re always going to be in the role of convener. And, you know, if we ever lose that, then I think we’re in trouble. A lot of what we you and I just talked about bringing people to the middle. That’s the only way you get things done. And I think, chambers have always got to play that role going forward. And like I said, the other thing is, we really got to think harder about talent, and how, how we’re going to fill all these jobs in the future. And think about, you know, does everybody need a bachelor’s degree? Or can you win, you got people out there who go get their CDL license and can make $100,000 a year driving a truck? Maybe we are rethink about, you know, where, where we put our educational resources, our higher educational resources. So, again, I think the Chamber’s roles will always be to be to be effective. We’ll be as conveners bringing people to the middle and getting stuff done.

Brandon Burton 37:10
I love it. So I wanted to give you a chance bill to share any contact information for any listeners who might want to reach out and connect with you. And also if they wanted to check out your In Search of civility program, where can they find that as well? Yep.

Connect with Bill Connors

Bill Connors 37:26
Our websites boisechamber.org. And my email is bconnors@boisechamber.org. Yeah, happy to talk to anybody and I, what I what I do love about this business. And as you said at the head of the program, I’m pretty active in ACCE and the US Chamber and I’ve gotten to know my counterparts all over the country. And we’re very good at stealing each other’s ideas. And that’s, that’s always a good

Brandon Burton 38:02
thing. That’s right. And I’ll get this contact information in our show notes for this episode. But Bill, this has been a great discussion. I’m glad to have had you on the podcast. And I appreciate you sharing this example of of establishing yourself as that same center and the place where all chambers really need to be residing. So thank you for that.

Bill Connors 38:26
Well, thank you very much, Brandon, and thanks for what you do for chambers all across the country.

Brandon Burton 38:31
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Wisdom from the Wild with Julie Henry

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Below is an auto-generated transcription of my conversation with Julie Henry. Because this is auto-generated there are likely some grammatical errors but it is still a useful tool to search text within this podcast episode.

Feel free to join our Chamber Chat Champions Facebook Group to discuss this episode and to share your own experiences and tips with other Chamber Champions.

Introduction

Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

And now, your host, he’s always intrigued when he sees a snake in the wild. He’s my dad, Brandon Burton.

Hello Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. It’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

Our title sponsor is Holman Brothers Membership Sales Solutions. Let’s hear from Matt Morrow President and CEO of the Springfield Area Chamber in Missouri to learn how the Holman Brothers provided value to his chamber.

Matt Morrow  0:45 

Holman Brothers provide a great training for our sales team in terms of just outstanding sales techniques. But maybe even more importantly than that, they were able to provide us with a system a process that was repeatable and in that we’re able to see very clearly from one month to the next how the how the pipeline is doing, what prospects are in it, what kind of progress we’re making and what we can do to coach people to success.

Brandon Burton  1:06 

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Guest Introduction

Our guest for this episode is Julie Henry. Julie is president of finish line leadership and author of wisdom from the wild the nine unbreakable Laws of Leadership from the animal kingdom. Former Zoo and Aquarium senior leader, Julie has worked with over 55 organizations across corporate nonprofit government association and community sectors. She holds a Bachelors of Science degrees in both zoology and education and Masters of Arts and Communication and an executive program certificate in sustainable business leadership. She is dedicated to helping people deal with change lead teams and build resilience using insights from wildlife and wild places. Julie has presented over a million people across 32 states and six countries in settings ranging from auditoriums and ballrooms to boats, beaches, forests, theaters, boardrooms, and even underwater while feeding sharks and moray eels. She lives in Sarasota, Florida with her two children whom she lovingly describes as her zoo animal and her wild animal due to each one’s natural inclination towards life. Julie, I’m happy to have you with me today on Chamber Chat Podcast, if you would take a moment to say hello to all the Chamber Champions and share something interesting about yourself so you can get to know you a little bit better.

About Julie Henry

Julie Henry 3:06
Oh, it’s so great to be here. Thank you so much for the invitation. I love talking all things, wildlife and wild places, and especially if you can help somebody think about something a little bit different. I’m happy to do that. And something interesting about me is if you ask me what my favorite animal is, it’s not actually in the book. It is a giant squid. And I think giant squid are fascinating because, um, you know, they get in battles with sperm whales. And we didn’t even know that we didn’t see one alive for a long time out until like, the past 10 years alive in his natural habitat. So it was a it was a conundrum, you know, an animal of legend that we kept searching for. And I love that.

Brandon Burton 3:41
Right. Wow, that is a good insight. There might be another chapter in you somewhere about.

Well, I’d like for you to take a moment to share a little bit about your background about your organization Finish Line leadership and and your relationship with chambers of commerce throughout your work just to kind of show the relevance to why we’re having you on Chamber Chat Podcast today.

Julie Henry 4:10
Yeah, thanks. I appreciate that. You know, when I spent the first 10 years working for organizations working for other people in nonprofit and corporate settings, and then when I launched my business in 2008, my sister in law actually said to me, you need to join the Chamber of Commerce. And I said, Well, why I don’t understand I just never had really been involved in chambers of commerce. And she said, Well, you need to it’s, you know, community, it’s its growth, it’s networking. It’s everything, and especially if you’re going to run your own business, and I said, Well, okay, and, and so I checked it out and immediately, I was really interested to get involved in many as many ways as possible. So that was putting my hand up and saying, Yeah, I want to join this committee, and then it was sure I’ll serve on the board and then it was, yeah, run this committee for green business. leadership because to me, Chambers of Commerce are such a necessary part of our community to provide a gathering space, a convenient space for people to talk about things that are hard and challenging and business as well as to support each other. And then over time, they became my clients hired to help them with facilitation to find new executive directors, I’ve been helping recently with the leadership programs that many of them have in the local area. So I’ve, I’ve been on both sides or every side of the coin, and I continue to think that they provide a very valuable and necessary role in our communities.

Brandon Burton 5:38
Absolutely. I appreciate you sharing that background. And it is very fitting to you to have that such close contact with chambers of commerce and several communities. And to be able to integrate that with the lessons that you share in your book today, which is going to be the topic that we’ll cover is diving into a little bit more of your book of Wisdom from the Wild, which is the nine unbreakable Laws of Leadership from the animal kingdom. And we’ll dive into this discussion as soon as they get back from this quick break.

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Topic-Wisdom from the Wild

All right, Julie, we are back. You know, I’d like to say that it would be an understatement to say you hit a homerun with this book, you know, a lot of people, they, they talk about writing a book, and then when it comes down to it, they balk, you know, then they never actually do it. And sometimes, you know, if they’ve already put out information about it, they kind of find themselves in a pickle, you know, because they they’re not going forward with what they said they would do. And I’m saying all these things on purpose to dry out these these metaphors, these analogies there throughout life. All right, as we talk about hitting that home run or boxing or being in a pickle, a lot of these analogies are sports related. A lot of them are baseball related, I would say that wisdom from the wild, it covers a lot of the blocking and tackling of leadership. So there’s a football analogy there. But we don’t see a ton of analogies from nature in our everyday lexicon and conversations. However, I will say my oldest, my oldest child, he’s about a year and a half he’ll be leaving the nest and spreading his wings. So he’ll he’ll be getting out there in the world. But we could uh, we could either stick our head in the sand and pretend like these. These laws of nature don’t exist in leadership and have those parallels. Or we could talk to Julie and we could read her book and see some of these parallels. So Julie, I’d like to hand it over to you and share maybe what was your driving force behind writing this book writing wisdom to the Wild and drying out these lessons that you’ve noticed in the wild in creating those parallels to leadership?

Julie Henry 10:08
Yeah, you know, and I’ll the first thing I’ll say is that I find nature the great equalizer, because it doesn’t matter if you live in downtown Tokyo or rural Oklahoma, or if you have a Harvard MBA or if you’re 16 years old, and you haven’t graduated high school yet, you can walk outside and think about, hmm, I wonder why that’s happening. Or let me learn more about that. And you don’t have to pose in nature, you can just be yourself. In fact, nature demands that your yourself doesn’t let you

Brandon Burton 10:38
be natural. Yeah.

Julie Henry 10:41
Like it’s gonna call you out. If you try to hike a mountain in high heels, you’re not going to go very far. And so I think nature is a way for people to have leadership conversations that strips away the need to know the answers already, because nature is about being curious and asking questions. And that’s really what life is about, let alone leadership. And I also will say that when I was in college, you know, my dad was a leadership development guy, he ran his own business, my mom was a teacher, and I was a science kid. So somehow, it’s going to stitch them all together. And my college professor gave me a project and said, teach people about coral reefs. That was my project. And I thought, well, not everybody’s going to be interested in coral reefs, what if I use the analogy of a business and talk about how coral reefs operate together, just like a business does with different departments, etc. And that was in 1996. So it’s only grown since then. So when I worked in zoos, and aquariums, I would always invite companies in, like, come to a retreat here, this is an interesting place. And let me help you think about your communication challenges through the eyes of you know, a pelican rather than, like the top 10, you know, communication laws. And then when I flipped it, and I was working as a consultant, I would be, you know, literally 1500 feet underground in a limestone mine, working with people that work in shift work, and it’s 11 o’clock at night, and they’ve been there for 42 years, if I can tell them stories about, you know, a sea turtle, then suddenly I’ve got their attention. And that’s important. So it was for all of those reasons. And we learn everything else from nature, architecture, our medicine, music, everything, why not leadership?

Brandon Burton 12:18
Yeah, I love that. And I’m hoping after you, after people hearing this discussion, and and chamber leaders reading your book, hopefully, they can come out of it and say, I really need some coral reef time, or, you know, through this pandemic, you know, I was, I was quite the sea cucumber, you know. So, these things will make more sense as we get on with our conversation here. But you have your book broken up into three main sections. So you talk about change, teamwork, and resilience. So I think for the chamber for chamber professionals listening, change, teamwork and real resilience are three areas that they need to be hyper aware of all the time, because starting with change, you know, those changes always happening. But I’d like to focus on maybe one of these topics of change, where we you talked about not being distracted by fear? What lessons did you learn from nature that correlate to leadership revolving around fear?

Julie Henry 13:20
I’m glad you picked that one. Because I think change, of course, is ubiquitous, right? In every part of our life, let alone as a leader, but also, it’s your great calling. And as a leader, if you’re not leading change, then I don’t know what you’re doing. You can’t just No, no leader that I’ve ever talked to, I said, I just kind of want to manage the status quo, like, do you? Or do you want to innovate and serve your community better? I think it’s the latter. But in order to do that, you are going to be confronted by either your fear of the unknown, or people around you who have, you know, I don’t know, maybe brainstormed many, many times on giant post, it notes, all their ideas, and then they never get taken. So they’re afraid to do it again. Or they’re new at the organization, and they don’t want to commit their ideas. Or maybe you’re trying to change the membership structure of your chamber. Oh, my gosh, that’s so hard. I’ve been in those conversations, like, how do we restructure to better serve our members? And how do we price it and how do we market it? I mean, your listeners know exactly what I’m talking about. I know they do. And there’s innate fear, both on oh my gosh, are people going to like not join again? Because we’ve changed the membership structure. And who do we make more angry? Right, right. So think about the animals that scare us. Universally, right? Snakes, and spiders. Those are the animals that come to mind. And the thing about spiders is, I love spiders, love spiders. I find them totally fascinating, but even me, I can still be startled if I turn on the light and there’s a giant spider the size of my hand next to the light switch as has happened before. That still startles me So even if you’re totally comfortable with leading change, and you’ve been down that road, you can still be startled by fear. And it’s important to understand and recognize that fear is just a part of being a human. And you’ve got to validate that and call that out, and you cannot ignore it or sleep, sweep it under the table, if you want your change to actually stick when you’re on the other side of it.

Brandon Burton 15:21
I love that. And I think, you know, nature for us fear is something It’s a survival mechanism. You know, we have that fear for a reason, and it’s to survive. So when you see that, that spider or snake for me, I like snakes, I’ve had pet snakes, I’m fascinated by snakes. But if I’m out for a run, and there’s a stick in the road that kind of looks like a snake that catches me off guard, I’m going to stop, because I don’t know what kind of snake it is. But then I get curious, sometimes it’s a stick, sometimes it’s a snake, and I’ll stop and watch it for a bit. But it goes back to being curious. So don’t let the fear stop you from being curious. kind of lean into it and see what you can learn from it is what I understood.

Julie Henry 16:04
I love that. Yep, I call it fear is nature’s yellow light. Just slow down.

Brandon Burton 16:09
Yes, absolutely. So you talked a lot about teamwork. And there’s a I want to move on to the teamwork section. Because there’s a couple topics on this that I wanted to have you highlight and talk more about, but one of them is the the chapter is titled, there’s no one size fits all approach to teamwork. And in the chamber world, everyone has heard the saying that if you’ve seen one chamber, you’ve seen one chamber, meaning that no two chambers are alike. Talk to us a little bit about this and how that relates to leadership and specifically with chambers.

Julie Henry 16:46
Yes, I think that chambers are one of the most unique organizations that I’ve been involved with and worked with. And sometimes that’s a great thing. And sometimes that’s a challenging thing, especially when it comes to communicating, you know, your relevance, or why should people should get involved sometimes, like I did, I had, I didn’t understand it, you know, long time ago when I was first getting involved. And there are some animals that from the outside look a little unusual. In fact, one of my favorite animals about this is naked mole rats, and naked mole rats, when we first discovered them, literally, the people thought they were mutations because they’re super funky looking. And they have big teeth, and they look basically naked. They’re hairless, almost mammals, they live underground, they live together. And we just ignored them for a while until we rediscovered them in the 50s. And then came to understand that oh my gosh, they actually live in colonies like bees. And they’re super effective at how they’ve divided all of the labor, if you will, between these animals. And they’re basically blind, but they communicate by your trails of urine and stack up together, keep their body temperature regulated, even though they’re mammals, I mean, so, you know, I love naked mole rats, and I champion them. And I tell people, when your team seems a little unusual from the outside, or your organization does, I want you to lean into that and champion your naked mole rat team, you don’t own explanation, anybody and you’re probably super highly functional, even though you may look kind of strange from the outside, but embrace that and own it. And don’t ever shy away from it. That’s why I love that you call your listeners chamber champions, because I want them to champion the fact that they are also naked mole rats,

Brandon Burton 18:28
yes. Love that. can bring it full circle, I love it. And I think that’s so true that as we look at, you know, especially working with maybe people on a committee, you know, they might bring an idea or an approach. It’s like, man, that’s really weird, you know, and you can kind of put it aside and say, That’s weird, and stay away from it. Or you can, again, be curious and lean into it and say, Well, what, what is there that we can learn from this? And are there things that we can implement and become stronger for it and maybe attract other people to come along our mission with us? So I’d love the lessons from the naked mole rats. So the other chapter that I wanted to touch on under Teamwork was, especially I think, important during these times were in chambers all over focusing on diversity, equity and inclusion. And you have a chapter titled, surround yourself with people who are not like you. And you talk specifically about a termite meeting giraffe and giraffe meet the termite. And I’d love for you to share more about that story and maybe, you know, make those correlations to what we see in the real life today.

Julie Henry 19:43
Yeah, you know, if you thought about a termite giraffe, they may not even seem like they even live in the same habitat, let alone need each other but they do because you know, the Africans van it’s pretty hard place to survive. There’s not a lot of water out there and you’ve got to work together and so they while they’re not actively Working together, they’re participating in helping each other survive. So the termite is breaking down vegetation as they’re, you know, chewing it up, basically. And, and that is attracting the giraffes to come over and basically eat that vegetation. And then they’re laying their own feces and urine. If you Well, there’s a lot of conversation about this on this podcast, I apologize, hopefully.

Brandon Burton 20:24
We’re not advocating for chambers here. Just to be clear, right? Now, we’re not

Julie Henry 20:30
gonna remember this, because we’re talking about it. You know, so, you know, for me, I remember the first board I was ever involved in, I remember, in this giant, long, giant board, it was 40 people long meeting, it was eight hours long. And I remember thinking, Oh, my gosh, this is super stressful. And I don’t know, really how I’m participating, etcetera. And the formative thing for me was the fact that I think towards the end of this meeting, one person basically said one sentence and summarize the entire eight hours, we call the meeting to order, we took a vote and we finished it. And that is not how I operate. As you can tell, I have a lot to say, and I communicate with my words all the time. And immediately, I thought, oh, my gosh, he’s different than me. And I need to be with him on all of these projects, because we’re going to be better together, and the outcome is going to be even stronger. And that’s an uncomfortable thing, too, though, right? Because I’m like, What are you thinking? You’re not talking? I’m talking all the time? And what are you thinking, but I had to lean into that. So that’s, that’s, that’s one way of looking at it. And then the diversity, equity inclusion is, of course, the other part of that, because, you know, people who are not like us are, sometimes they scare us, because it makes us try to think differently, or just acknowledge that we don’t know all the answers. But remember nature’s about curiosity. And if the termites and drafts need each other, then you need also a termite to your giraffe.

Brandon Burton 21:55
Absolutely. And one thing that came to mind is you were giving your response there is, so there’s the diversity, equity inclusion, part of it of, you know, trying to figure out those people in your community that you may have not even noticed before, you might not have noticed that they were part of your community, you might not have noticed that they had a business in your community, because of whatever the type of business it is, or the person that’s running it, their background, or whatever it may be. There, I can guarantee their segments in any community where you have not noticed certain people or certain types of businesses. And if you can kind of open your eyes as a giraffe, like what purposes is giraffe have to look way down on the ground, there’s a little termites that are going around feces and stuff down there. Whereas, you know, in the chamber world to be able to look a little deeper within your community. And on the Diversity Equity inclusion topic, we always talk about who’s missing. And rather than just who’s missing, I would say, Who Have you not noticed, and try to notice a little bit more. And then I think there’s another part of it when it comes to networking, I mean, chambers, editorials for having networking events, and you’re making introductions, and if we can help certain businesses, see other businesses that they may not realize they’re connected, but to be able to help build, you know, build that bridge between their two businesses and say, here’s why you need each other, here’s how you can be stronger together, and help form those solid relationships. I think really reemphasizes that a whole story of the termite giraffe. So So as we move on to the resilience section, there’s a couple in this as well, that I wanted to touch on. So especially coming through this COVID pandemic, resilience has been a key topic of how do you, you know, first of all stay relevant, how do you adapt to that change? But then how do you thrive through it? And I think that boils down to resiliency. And your chapter titled you’re wired not just to survive, but to thrive. And you talk about sea cucumbers. Help us make that connection there.

Julie Henry 24:14
So before I answer that question, I just want to say that the reason why I’m so passionate about everything in this book, and everything we’re talking about is because I didn’t just think of these examples, and suggest to your listeners that maybe they should consider this. Everything we’re talking about is absolutely true. That’s why I call them unbreakable laws, like termites and drafts, they need each other spiders are needed and sea cucumbers are wired to when they are threatened. Ie they’re living on the bottom of the ocean floor. Here comes this predator are about to get eaten. Their mechanism to survive is literally to eat visceral, which means to throw up their own guts, right? That’s Crazy, this animal that is trying to eat the sea cucumber will either swim away or potentially eat the guts of the sea cucumber. Now, if that happens, this sea cucumber, which basically looks like a sausage on the ocean floor, it doesn’t actually look like it’s capable of much. However, it is related to sea stars. So probably most people listening know that a sea star can regrow its arm if it gets cut off, or eaten or whatever. Same thing with a sea cucumber, it can regrow its own guts, that is a biological fact and absolute certainty. That’s how it’s wired to survive, but also to thrive. So if a relatively innocuous animal on the ocean floor can survive a huge threat literally within inches of its life. Those times when you are afraid of change, or leading your team down a road, that you’re just really not sure if it’s even the right road to go. But someone’s got to make a decision. And that’s you. And you literally feel sick to your stomach. The awareness and the recognition that you’re wired to get through. This brings not only great comfort, but also should build your confidence and let you lean in a little more and totally erase it pastures is syndrome, anything else that we talk about, like, it’s your biological fact that you’re gonna get through this and you’re gonna thrive on the other side, it’s going to be uncomfortable, I can’t imagine what it feels like to regrow your guts, but you’re going to do it

Brandon Burton 26:31
just that image of regrowing your guts. So, I see the parallel to again, through the pandemic is you know, initially when everything shut down there was that kind of wait and see phase where chambers and businesses just kind of like okay, let’s let’s take the temperature, let’s see what’s going on here. And once we realize this is gonna go on longer than what we expected. It’s not just two weeks, this is gonna go on much longer. He saw businesses he said chambers that had to do layoffs. He said chambers that had to tap into their reserves that they’ve you know, saved up for decades, possibly those reserve funds. You said chamber offices that had to shut down their physical location and everybody was working remotely from home. And I don’t know that looks a lot like you know, getting rid of your your insides and in still figuring out how to pull it back together, how to regenerate how to get back into the office, how to rehire how to get your funding backup, all while at the same time remaining relevant and serving their their membership base that that needed them so badly at that time. So I think that is a an excellent parallel to the sea cucumbers. It probably one of my favorite chapters was was the last chapter the book, as you talked about resilience, and it’s titled even cheetahs slow down. I know. Well, I’m gonna, I’m gonna let you talk about that before I share any of my thoughts, because I think we may touch on some of the same things.

Julie Henry 28:16
This is the last chapter of the book. But the pivotal moment when I realized after 25 years of having the idea in college was time to write the book. Because I had talked to so many people at that point and felt that way myself, that it is again, a biological fact and unbreakable law that even cheetahs slow down. But if I were to ask your listeners to think in their head, when I say the word cheetah, what do you think of? Now? Chances are, you’re thinking about the fact that it’s the fastest land animal. And if you were to Google cheetah, you’re pulling up all of these images about how fast they run. And that’s what they’re talking about. Okay, well naive. How many of you have ever been to a zoo or even been to Africa and seeing the cheetah running? Probably not many people actually seeing the cheetah running unless the zoo has, you know, structured it for an event or for you know, interaction? Most of the time, they are hanging out and resting and relaxing. And they are not, I think overthinking when they’re resting and relaxing, right? So we glorify the idea of being busy with effective leader in our culture. And that’s why we are so fascinated by how fast this cheetah goes. But that cheetah goes for what less than a minute, and then they rest. And they don’t think about oh my gosh, I wish I would have jogged left instead of jogged right. And I don’t know if I can do it next time. And I’m not sure I have the courage and maybe I should ask somebody else what they think no, they just rest. Okay, what do we do? Well, I will rest on the weekend or everybody else leave at five. I’m going to stay and do the event tonight. Okay, well, first of all people are watching you. You can’t Don’t just burn yourself out and expect everyone else not to do the same thing. But the thing is, nature’s going to slow you down one way or the other, you have a choice, you’re going to be proactive and say, Nope, here’s what I need. Here’s how I manage my energy. resilience to me is about managing my energy. It’s not false positivity. It’s not Yeah, I’m good. I can totally do those three events on Friday night, and I’ll just bop around, can you No, you cannot, okay. And it’s also going to happen to one way or the other. So reactivity, proactivity, completely your choice. But you need to slow down, if you want to lead and have the impact you’re designed to have. And if you want to have other people around, you also do the same thing.

Brandon Burton 30:43
I love that. And I think for chamber leaders all over, I see them running constantly, whether it’s just in the office or at an event, but even after hours, you know, if they go out to eat with their family, they’re seeing people in the community and they’re constantly thinking work, they’re thinking the connections are, you know, trying to further the mission of the chamber, which it’s all you know, they good and honorable desires. But to avoid that burnout, and to really perform at your highest capacity, we need that that downtime, that respite time. And that’s, you know, for leaders, specifically, as you’re talking about in this book, but I’m thinking even your your membership salespeople, you know, they, they need that, because if they have any kind of commission structure, to their to memberships there, I mean, I’m a salesperson, you I understand sales, like you run, you run, you run. And I had this discussion this week, because of this book with with a sales rep that I said, you know, what, you’re running constantly, and you need to, you need to rest. And sometimes I think resting it, maybe you talked about not thinking about second guessing and everything. But I think some of that resting can come in the form of planning to some degree, not, not the big strategic plans, but maybe planning out your next day, or what you’re doing next week. Kind of on, let’s say lower level, brain power, but it’s not the high stress kind of brain power that you need to rest and to be able to perform it that the best of your ability. So I love that chapter. And, and especially, I think that was fitting to be the last chapter in the book, because you read through it, and you get all these great ideas about being a leader and like what you need to do to be like a sea cucumber, or a pelican or coral reef, or all these different things, I am gonna hit the ground running, and cycling hit, but I also need to rest. So it’s a good reminder.

Julie Henry 32:44
I’m still getting, you know, think of it like a bell curve. We spent all this time preparing and thinking and strategizing. And then we’re doing doing doing doing and then we just fall off a cliff. But it’s really a bell curve, like how do we ramp down? Like, are you checking your email, right, exactly. Soon after we get off this podcast like? Or can you take five minutes and like write down what you learned and reflect on it? Like you need to have a bell curve of your energy management, and then you’ll go back up. But it’s not a cliff. It’s a bell.

Brandon Burton 33:10
I love that those emails will wait for five minutes, they will I promise, they’ll still be there in five minutes. So take that time and jot down some notes. I love it. So Julie, as we start wrapping things up here, I wanted to ask you, if you might have maybe one tip or action item that you could share with chamber champions to help take their organization up to the next level.

Action Item/Tip for Chamber Champions

Julie Henry 33:34
You know, the one thing I would say to chamber champions is to pick one part, whether from well, you know, from this whole conversation or when they’re looking out, we tend to have all of these ideas and visions. And as you’re saying they are unique, because most of the time if not all of the time they’re living in the community that they are supporting. So they’re always on right. But what’s one action item that you can stop doing one action item that you can do a little more of and one action item, you can start completely in the next quarter. I like quarters because I think that’s a doable timeframe. Because you can see and measure progress. And the key to this is not only do you write down your goals, but just like I talked about with a mangrove method of change, you need to write where you are right now. So for example, if you want to stop checking emails immediately after every meeting that you get out of and you want to spend five minutes just thinking and decompressing before you check emails, then you need to write down. Alright, now I’m checking emails after I know it sounds silly, but I’m not kidding. Like if you want to run a marathon faster, the first thing you do is time how fast your mile is right now. If you want to lose 10 pounds, the first thing you do is get on a scale and see how much you actually weigh. So when we try to measure change in our personal leadership style, we go at it like that. I want to become a better leader. I want to become a better chamber professional. Oh my goodness, what does that actually mean? We have got to get specific and measurable. And it’s deeply personal. It’s deeply personal. And so pick achievable goals for you that makes sense to you. And maybe you won’t even end up on your annual review. And that is okay, is your personal journey.

Brandon Burton 35:19
That’s right. I love that. So one thing to stop one thing to do a little more of, and one thing to start brand new. I love that, too. So I know, chambers are always looking to the future says, as you look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see their future and purpose going forward?

Future of Chambers

Julie Henry 35:37
I would love chambers to continue to champion to use your word here. Their integral role of being a neutral place for people to convene, and have conversations that need to happen. So my analogy for this is when I used to run the Green Business Leadership Council, which was a committee of our local chamber was really important for me to create a space in which businesses felt safe, not necessarily comfortable. That’s always my marching order, right? But safe to come to the chamber and say, Gosh, I’m really struggling with how to do sustainability, my business right now, or I’m not sure if I should make this investment in, you know, the change in my restaurant or operations. But I know it’s better for my customers. But it’s not better for the bottom line right now. What are you doing? So how can people work together to affect change in the community, collectively? And I think chambers are unique in that position, because where else can businesses go and not feel like they’re either baring their soul or they’re going to get, you know, called on the carpet by somebody else? And maybe they don’t want to tell their customers yet or their stakeholders or even their employees, yet, they just need to have some thinking time first. And chambers are a convenient space. From my experience, in my opinion, it’s such a needed one. And so look to the future, what are the big things happening in your community, that you can step up and say, yeah, come talk at our place, like literally, here’s the space, or here’s a, here’s a neutral facilitator, or here’s a neutral listening person like that is so needed in order to continue advancing the communities, especially from diversity, equity, access inclusion, you all have these big hard topics that are happening. chambers have a unique role. And I know you can do it even better than you’re doing it now.

Brandon Burton 37:23
Absolutely. I love that, that look of the future. So Julie, I want to do to give you an opportunity to share any contact information with chamber champions, anyone who might want to reach out and connect with you or find your book. What’s the best way for them to reach out and connect?

Connect with Julie Henry

Julie Henry 37:41
Yeah, my website is JulieCHenry.com They can get on there shoot me an email. My email is also Julie@JulieCHenry.com It’s not all that creative, maybe. Yeah, you know, they can get my book anywhere their favorite local bookstore can order it if they don’t already have it. Or an Amazon has been in some airport bookstores with their you know, traveling again, and having some fun that might see it there as well. I’m on Instagram and LinkedIn both that Julie C Henry, and I would just love to you know, hear about what you’re doing and hear your plans for the future. Because it’s all exciting to me.

Brandon Burton 38:17
I love it. And we’ll get your contact information in our show notes for this episode as well. But I will say as you mentioned, finding the book in some airports and things like that it so it’s a leadership book, but it doesn’t feel like a leadership book, you know, says you read it the stories that you’re reading, they’re they’re real stories, they’re real parallels to life. And and that’s what I love about these analogies that I talked about at the beginning is the more familiar you are with them. You don’t need an in depth explanation to understand that an ostrich ostrich sticks its head in the sand to understand that metaphor, right? So the more familiar you are with these stories and the examples that Julie shares in this book, I think the better the leader you will be and being able to make those parallels in your life. So thank you, Julie. It’s been great having you on chamber chat podcast today that you provided a lot of value for the listeners and I hope everyone picks up your book and, and learns more about being a great leader from these laws of nature. Thank you.

Julie Henry 39:21
Thank you. It’s an honor to be on. And I hope everybody takes five minutes and goes outside today and asks a new question that you’ve never asked about nature and how that can help you be a better leader.

Brandon Burton 39:31
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