Category: Professional Development

Paducah Chamber-2024 Chamber of the Year Finalist with Sandra Wilson

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Brandon Burton 0:00
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You’re joining us for a special episode in our 2024 chamber of the year final the series and our guests for this episode is Sandra Wilson. Sandra is the president and CEO of the Paducah Area Chamber of Commerce. She joined the chamber in 2013 and before that she was a community volunteer she was the first woman to serve as Chairman of the Board for the Paducah Area Chamber of Commerce in 1996 and later also as the first woman chair of the greater Paducah Economic Development Board. on a statewide level, she served as chairman of the Kentucky Manufacturers Association and on the board of the Kentucky Chamber of Commerce and leadership, Kentucky. She is a past board member of ACCE and serves on the local chamber advisory board for the Kentucky Chamber of Commerce and as chair of the board for the Carson center Performing Arts Center in Paducah. She is the ambassador for Kentucky for the Association of leadership programs. She’s a graduate of Murray State University and leadership Kentucky and leadership Paducah and 2017 that Paducah chamber was named as chamber the year and category two from ACC. They’re also a five star accredited chamber by the US Chamber of Commerce. Sandra holds IMF IOM certification from the US Chamber of Commerce that Sandra, it’s great to have you back with us on chamber chat podcast. It’s always good to get past guests back on the show. But first congratulations to you and your team for being selected as a chamber the year finalist again, what an accomplishment. wanted to give you a chance to say hello to all the listeners and to share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better. Oh

Sandra Wilson 2:53
my goodness, Brandon. Well, thank you so much for hosting us and inviting me to be on the show today. I consider it quite an honor. And we are thrilled to be a finalist in 2024 is chamber of the year in Category Two. And we know who the other chambers are. And we look forward to seeing them at the ACC conference and visiting with them we have in the past about sharing ideas. And I think that’s really what chambers are so good at is doing is sharing ideas of what’s working in each other’s community so we can all be the best that we can possibly be for our community.

Brandon Burton 3:29
Absolutely, yes, that category two really all the categories this year, great chambers, great programs, but I’m looking at category two specifically I know them as well. And it’s a good competition all around. So whoever whoever wins, this is going to earn it for sure.

Sandra Wilson 3:48
Not be in the category with with those other chambers. So we’re thrilled about it. Absolutely.

Brandon Burton 3:54
Well tell us a little bit about the Paducah chamber Puducherry chamber and give us some perspective of the size of the chamber staff budget scope of work just to kind of prepare us for our discussion today.

Sandra Wilson 4:06
We are located in Paducah, Kentucky, and it’s in the western part of the state of Kentucky. So it’s kind of a rural area. But we’re located in the city of the rural part of Western Kentucky. And we’re the largest chamber in this area. We’re about 950 members always pushing to get to 1000 staying around that area. We have been at five staff members until the first of June, and the first of June we finally had the opportunity to hire a sixth employee. We during the last couple of years we raised money to launch a leadership center within our chamber of commerce. So we’ve hired a full time Executive Director for that will be staffing that portion of our chamber and he started June 1 So it’s been different having six here. You know you are so excited to be able to grow and add more staff. We are truly the chamber. We, our economic development involvement is we own our building we just bought our building within the last year and the greater paddock economic development is here with us are one of our tenants, we work very closely with them and helping to recruit economic development, but we’re the chamber and we work on behalf of our community, we lead the advocacy efforts for our region. We’re a hub for small business development programs. We’re the convener of people, and we love that part. You know, what we really want to do is just continually work to improve this community. So others that come here and visit it love it as much as we do. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 5:45
absolutely. What a great time to join the chamber though for the new staff member I mean, chamber the year year. Yeah. Great timing. So on these chamber, the or finalist episodes, I’d like to spend the majority of our time discussing the two programs of work that you guys submitted on your chamber the your application. I think there’s a lot there that other chambers listening can learn from and be able to scale and adapt and maybe apply something similar into their communities. So we’ll focus the majority of our time on those programs as soon as they get back from this quick break.

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All right, Sandra, we are back. As I mentioned before the break, we’re going to focus on the two programs that are submitted on your chamber the your application. If you would please introduce the first program that you’d like to address this today on the show and we’ll we’ll dive into the details of that. As

Sandra Wilson 8:34
a chamber, I think it’s really important that you look at what is going on in your community and what is the most important program or something that you need to take on and tackle. And for us, it it’s been the Department of Energy site here in Paducah for many years. But it took a different perspective in the last year and a half that planet that they announced in 2013, that they were ceasing operations and they would go into in what’s called Legacy environmental management. It was for cleanup of the site, which meant that they were still going to be there for probably 30 to 40 years and the cleanup stage. But it’s it’s it’s different than when it was operating. And it was different for us is the way our community needed to embrace the Department of Energy. So we’ve been in that phase for over 10 years now. And it became apparent to us because we got very involved with the national trade association for communities that have a department of energy side that’s in this phase of cleaning up the energy communities Alliance. We started going to their meetings we started meeting you know, we’ve always been the advocacy organization asking for money, but we for the for the cleanup, but we started looking at what needs to be done out there for the future. We really didn’t have a plan for beyond the cleanup phase, where there’s all He’s an opportunity for development, economic development to continue. So we applied for a grant with the Department of Energy to lead the reindustrialization study for that site to really map out the future. Because there there could be a parallel path for this site, you can have it the cleanup going on that we’re working with. Now, again, on our advocacy side, for the chamber, we are fighting for funding, we have fight for long term contracts, those are the things that we’re representing there. On the second side of it, the parallel path would be looking at how we could get the land that has been dedicated and managed, owned by the department of energy transferred back to our community so that we can begin to do economic development project programs, and overall economic development of that site. So we developed a grant request, and we’re very successful to get that, and we’ll be we’re about a year into it now. And we’ll be, you know, continuing throughout the next six months to a year as well on it. So with that, I have grant request had some major pillars in it, of course, that we have to accomplish. And one of those is identifying and infrastructure needs for the land that would be transferred back to the community. And in step one of that also, you had to, we had to do the official formal request from our community, for the very first parcel of land to be transferred back to the community. So that has been accomplished. And so now we’re looking at what the infrastructures would would need water, roads, all of that, to make that successful economic development. And then we will continue with working on prospects for economic development. We’ve been to national conferences to meet with companies that are interested in locating and an economic in a on a Department of Energy site, a joint adjacent to it or nearby. We’re working on the workforce. And really, we’re looking on the workforce for now and for the future. So that’s part of our grant that is really overlapping from what’s happening now, and going into the future for the next few years. And so those were the main things, those were really a little bit unusual for our chamber, because we’re not the economic development organization for our community. But we work with economic development very closely. And we have worked with the Department of Energy for so many years that we know knew that they have a lot of trust in our chamber, that we have built a relationship with them for the year. So they knew that we would take this very seriously, and that we would make sure it’s done correctly.

Brandon Burton 12:50
So what kinds of things were maybe surprising as you went through the study of trying to revitalize this this land? Was there anything that came to light that you didn’t expect? That has kind of course the direction that you’re going going forward?

Sandra Wilson 13:07
I think that identifying the companies that might be interested to come here has been a very interesting prospect. I mean, that we can’t really, you know, we’ve just put in the land transfer request, that had to be step number one, and then we’ll begin to identify who would be interested in coming here. So there’s a lot of opportunity there. The Department of Energy has a lot of funding available for developing new companies. But there’s just a lot of things that will come to light as we begin to work through this process. Yeah.

Brandon Burton 13:43
All right. Is there any specific industry or type of business you feel like would be an ideal candidate for what’s on a former Department of Energy? Land?

Sandra Wilson 13:56
There are some that are, you know, Newt, mislaid, nuclear clean energy potential for small modular reactor. I mean, right now we’re identifying those and who would consider coming here, there are a lot of fuel fabrication, a lot of things that are really all new to us, as a as a chamber, that we’ve been able to work with the context that we built through the many years that we’ve been involved with the Department of Energy to know who they may be. Right.

Brandon Burton 14:24
Now, as I think of a chamber of the year finalists, we’re really looking at chambers that are making a big impact on their community. And what you guys are focused on here with this Department of Energy land, this can be a huge impact to the economy in the Paducah area and just a change of atmosphere, if you will, depending on how that goes forward. So that I see it being a huge impact in the community.

Sandra Wilson 14:51
Thank you. I would totally agree. The decisions we are making today and that we are identifying for the future really are Setting our community for the futures for the next 50 years and beyond. Because it’s so critical that we diversify our economy here, we’ve had this Department of Energy site for 60, year of 5060 years, it was a great employer of some of the best jobs in our community they employed, you know, way over 1000, they still do that. But it’s sometimes in the peaks, I’ve been up to 1800 to 2000. And so we became really reliant on that, because we had such a good base. But it’s important that we continue to diversify all of that economy, you know, community, our size is not a huge geographical large county. So that is available land that we need to focus on for economic development for the future. We have said before, when we’re meeting with the Department of Energy, we don’t want to be part of just their history, we want to be a part of their future. And they have a lot of programs available for working with companies that are looking at the future of energy projects. Our state, for example, we had in our advocacy efforts for 2024, with the state priorities was all quite a bit about nuclear energy. And our state has a set aside, established a new nuclear Working Group advisory board that will be run out of the University of Kentucky. And you know, there’s identifying criteria for making a community nuclear ready. Prior to that our community had already identified and adopted resolutions by our city government or county government, our chamber economic development, our community reuse organization, stating that we are a community that’s a nuclear ready. And by that we meant we’ve been in this arena for many years. We understand it, we know it, our workforce knows that we’re ready to go for the next step. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 16:59
that’s great. I love what you said about, you don’t want to just be a part of the their history but a part of the future as well. So I love being forward thinking like that.

Sandra Wilson 17:11
Girl is also I’ll just say what he’s really put me out in the and a national forefront. I was able to speak at a waste management symposium earlier this year, and was on a panel out there where there were I think 3000 People now wasn’t I didn’t speak to that hopeful 3000, I spoke to a panel on a panel specific about cleanup of the Department of Energy side. But it’s put me in a whole new arena, really talking about that. And I also believe that it is putting a chamber chambers of commerce across the country in a new arena where you can show that you adjust to what your community needs are. And we saw this as a really strong need, we embraced it, we were very intentional on how we would move forward with it. And we are going to deliver the best product that we can for the Ark communities path forward, we call it our roadmap for the community. So that whoever picks it up at the end, knows exactly the next steps for land transfer, who the economic development prospects are and has their contacts and knows what they would want for infrastructure needs, and knows what the workforce would need to be. So we’re preparing our future at the community now.

Brandon Burton 18:24
That’s great. I love it. Love it, love it. Let’s shift gears a little bit into the second program that was submitted on your chamber that your application if you introduce that to us and kind of the the origins and how that’s developed?

Sandra Wilson 18:40
Well, when I talk about economic development, let me just say we say it all the time, it happens one job at a time. It’s great when you have a new company come in and they’re announcing three to 400 500. But you have so many small businesses in Riyadh in reality Chamber of Commerce for us. In located where we are about three fourths of our members are considered small businesses. And they’re reliant on the big employers around them for the customers and the you know, the activity that comes in for them. But they are truly what we would call economic development at its finest. And we have a small business cohort that had we’ve graduated 40 from the program, and we see how they are hiring people. They’re expanding. They’re opening new locations, because of the programs that they have seen that can be successful, how they can develop it and make their own business more successful through what they’ve learned in our small business cohort. We have all kinds of seminars, we have a lot of programs that go on, we get calls every day that how do you do a business plan? How do you get this will central to that was our Small Business Development Center, that chamber How does it how’s that but we have a close relationship in partnership with the Small Business Development Center. The way it is structured in our state is that I have to raise it was it was restricted a little bit where they had to raise the funding locally to keep their program open. When you have somebody that’s supposed to be advising small business owners, I didn’t, we didn’t want them to have to spend their time or decided that the chamber. And we went out in the community and the chamber, first of all, and we went to our economic development, our city or county and our local organizations that benefit from having small business development center in our community. And we were able to raise the money that was needed to keep that program open, and that you’re continuing to be a close partner with us and everything that we do for our small businesses.

Brandon Burton 20:42
So I’m curious and how you went about raising the money? Was it about just getting the the awareness out about what the need was and making strategic assets? or was there some kind of event or fundraiser I had, what was the approach to raising those funds?

Sandra Wilson 20:57
First of all, our Small Business Development Center had a great track record, so they could show the businesses that they had helped, and what it involved with jobs and with economic development, so when you go and talk to a mayor, or a county judge, and you can show them the benefits and the success that they’ve been having, it really helps a lot. And we were able to do that. So it was strategic meetings, and some phone calls. But we did go to a lot of meetings in person. Most all of them were our members, primarily, we did work with an adjoining county that had some support as well. But we that adjoining county is a really close partner with our own county and with our chamber, they’ve been very involved with us through the years. So we had built those relationships. I think everyone that we asked knew that they could trust us as well, that we wouldn’t be behind it if we didn’t know that it was going to be a very successful program. And so that that’s what we did, we mostly, I would say, went one on one with meetings. But it wasn’t an impossible sale, where it was more of an education. And let’s face it, everything at the end comes down to making the ask closing the deal. Yeah.

Brandon Burton 22:11
So you didn’t do like a mass email and say we’re collecting funds, it was more strategic and gave some intention behind that. So

Sandra Wilson 22:22
we knew that their partners were, we knew who the small businesses that they were helping with we’re working with, we knew that overall, no one wanted to lose this resource that we had in our community. I think that was someone the number one thing that we all agreed on. It was just how do we make sure that we’re doing the steps that we need to and somebody has to take the lead on anything that you’re going to do somebody has to take the lead to make sure that it’s being done, it’s being done in a timely way it’s being reported, and that everything that needs to be done, when you’re looking at raising funds, it was going to the University of Kentucky, that everything that needed to be done was was completed the way it should be. So

Brandon Burton 23:09
the raising of the funds, is that something that needs to be done on an annual basis for the Small Business Development Center? Or is it what what kind of interval was that where they need to come up with the funds to justify staying open, we

Sandra Wilson 23:21
set it up on a two year program. So everyone committed for two years, I believe at the end of those two years, we will not have any trouble continuing with that, because he’s already met his goals for the year right now, you know, and halfway through the year, so he’s got the rest of the year to continue. You know, just to build up on that and expand, the one thing that he probably needed to do was be able to expand into other counties. A lot of his work was being done in our immediate area in Paducah and the immediate surrounding area. But there are other counties in our community that did step in our West Kentucky Regional Chamber Alliance stepped in and made a nice contribution to help with them. And they represent 14 counties in West Kentucky. So it was a really opportunity to allow that this service to be expanded as well. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 24:11
that’s fantastic. Guys came in as heroes.

Sandra Wilson 24:17
So I mean, in regionalism, and how important it is that if our county is successful, it’s overflowing into other counties. And if our county next door has businesses opening, more than likely, you know, we’re going to benefit from that in some way. And so, really show the strength I think of working together to support something in your region that you know, is vital and is very important. What was

Brandon Burton 24:43
key to me is how you mentioned it was it was all built upon the relationships that you guys have built over the years to be able to go make those asked to make those connections build lean upon the county next door and to be able to make this happen and it is it’s what chambers do is convening and building those relationships and That’s, uh, you guys executed well on that. So great job.

Sandra Wilson 25:06
It was really fun, because it actually put us out in the community back meeting with our own members. But you know, the underlying factor too is we knew we really couldn’t continue our own small business development programs that we have, if we didn’t have that resource. It was critical for us to have that. So it was a great investment. Right? And resources.

Brandon Burton 25:29
Yes, yeah. So I like asking, especially as we have you on as a chamber, the year finalist for chambers that are out there listening, what kind of tip or action item might you share for a listener who’s interested in taking their chamber up to the next level?

Sandra Wilson 25:46
There are a lot of resources out there that are very beneficial. And I think you have to look at your own region to see how what what’s needed the most. And then you can rely on for us, we rely on our State Chamber, the Kentucky Chamber of Commerce a lot. I mean, we work very closely with them, we rely on the US Chamber of Commerce and rely on them. And as a chamber executive, we rely on the association of Chamber of Commerce executives, there are great resources available, that if you just will take the time, that and I’m just gonna say that’s probably some of the hardest thing. That’s the hardest that you have to find. Because as a chamber, executive, chamber staff person, you’re managing a lot of different tasks, no day is ever the same. No crisis is ever the same. No, celebration is ever the same. And so you have to really be always looking to see what someone else is doing. And then the chamber rolled, you know, I think we call it r&d, the RIP and duplicate, and you make it your own. And we do that, and we’re honored when another chamber does that from something that we’re doing, if they can, if we can help them to be more successful. That’s awesome. Because that’s helping more communities to be successful, more Chambers of Commerce. So identify what’s needed in your community, look around and see how you what would be the best organization for you to align yourself with on any particular issue. And it’s going to vary from issue to issue.

Brandon Burton 27:21
I love that fact, as I introduce what chamber chat podcast is all about to chamber professionals, I’ll use the tagline that it’s your weekly r&d resource, right? So every week, you get new ideas that you can rip off and duplicate. So I love that learning from others. As we look to the future of chambers, how do you see the future chambers and their purpose going forward?

Sandra Wilson 27:47
I’m gonna go back to the fact that I think you have to identify what’s important in your community, because we’re all different. We all have different challenges and different opportunities, and identify what is going to help your community and I didn’t make a determination if that’s something your chamber should be the lead on, should maybe be the second play the second roll in and pushing, sometimes you just have to push, who maybe it’s a different organization, or maybe it’s the government that should be in the lead, and you’re the one pushing them to help them better understand that there are times that you’re going to need to be in the lead and look to others to help you with that. But you’re going to have to stay relevant in your own community.

Brandon Burton 28:32
I like that trying to figure out what your role should be and what your community needs. I think a lot of chambers just jumped to the conclusion oh, we need to be the lead. And like he said, oftentimes be in that second role and helping to push it along and explain why things are important is very helpful. You’re still leading but you don’t have to take that that main charge and carry that that weight that comes with it as well. So great, great piece of advice with that as well. Well, Sandra, before we let you go, I wanted to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for listeners who’d like to reach out and learn more about how you guys are doing things there in Paducah, what would be the best way for them to reach out and connect with you. Okay,

Sandra Wilson 29:11
that’s great. I always appreciate sharing information and I can tell you that I call others all the time to ask for their advice. So you can reach us at PaducahChamber.org And my direct email is swilson@paducahchamber.org. And let me spell Paducah, Pa d u c h Paducah. And wire info if you can’t remember as well send info@PaducahChamber.org. We’ll get you through to ours and we’ll answer you.

Brandon Burton 29:41
That’s perfect. And I’ll get it in our show notes for this episode as well. So somebody can pull that up and find your email and website and all that good stuff. But Sandra, this has been great to have you back on chamber chat podcast and again, big congratulations to you and your team for being selected as a finalist for the great work you guys are doing. Under the Paducah area, and I wish you and your team Best of luck as chamber the year. Thank

Sandra Wilson 30:05
you, Brandon. Thank you for all you do for the chamber profession. We really do appreciate it. Thank you.

Brandon Burton 30:10
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Positively Disrupt Your Chamber Community with Tony Rubleski

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your hosts Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community. You’re joining us for a special episode as part of our 2023 ACCE Chamber the Year Finalist Series.

Let’s hear from Becky Womble, President of the Bastrop Chamber to hear about her experience with Community Matters.

Becki Womble 1:03
I’ve been using Community Matters for probably six or seven years now. And in a previous life, I sold commercial printing so I can highly recommend Community Matters because it’s a complete turnkey job for any busy chamber exec and it’s a wonderful, beautiful printed product whenever you’re finished. And I just I’m very sold on Community Matters. And with a printing background I just big endorsement from me.

Brandon Burton 1:44
To learn how Community Matters can support your chamber with your next publication. Please visit communitymattersinc.com/podcast To request your free media kit and request a proposal to find out what kind of non-dues revenue you can generate.

Learn how you can partner with Community Matters, Inc. to produce your next Chamber Directory, Community Guide or Map.

Our guest for this episode is Tony Rubleski. Tony is currently the President of Mind Capture Group. His message is designed to help people capture more minds and profits. He’s an in demand speaker who’s given hundreds of presentations executive coach, best selling author and creator of the mind capture bootcamp. Now in its 13th year, he has over 25 years of experience in the personal development industry. His mind capture book series has spawned multiple best sellers in a variety of businesses and coaching categories with Amazon. The acclaimed series has received many endorsements from a wide range of leaders in marketing sales, psychology to academia and multiple New York Times bestselling authors. Book number eight in the series titled positive disruption Volume Two more quotes and questions to up shift your life, released globally in 2022. And book number nine will release in the fall of 2024. His work has been featured in various media outlets ranging from Toastmasters International magazine, the Detroit Free Press, the Fox TV network, ABC, NBC and CNN radio, NPR on an Entrepreneur Magazine, radio, and now on Chamber Chat Podcast. In addition, he’s also served as faculty member with the US Chamber of Commerce and CEO space International. But, Tony, I’m excited to have you with us today here on Chamber Chat Podcast, I’d love to give you a moment to say hello to all the Chamber Champions that are out there listening and share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better. Well, Brandon,

Tony Rubleski 3:35
Well, Brandon, thank you for bringing me on here and happy new year to all the chamber executives in the first thing I want to mention to all of them that are listening either now when they catch it live or time shift. Is that thank you for what you do. You know, we talked before we hit record here I’ve worked with hundreds of chambers the last 20 years and being the CEO, or even on staff at a chamber sometimes the loneliest job in the world, Brandon, you do a lot, you have a ton of spinning plates. Everywhere you go, people are watching you, and you have a vital leadership role in the community. So thank you for doing that. Because right now I’ll start out with a really hard hitting punch and a little bit of fun fact is leadership is in short supply right now, I believe the last three and a half years the post COVID World 2020 on it feels like we’ve been in an episode of The Twilight Zone. And people just look like they’re walking around kind of in a daze like an earthquake happen. And we’re still trying to recover I believe because we’re not going back to 2019 Brandon, and I think a lot of our chambers know it but again, I want to genuinely thank you because I think more than ever, here’s my opening salvo are shot across the bow chambers. If they position right we will grow at an even better rate. It won’t be easy. The chamber executives know this. But here’s why say that bold proclamation. Local businesses during the pandemic got hammered. Small Business still took it. You know many of them are still closing or trying to get back to where they’re at Brandon You can help them Ding ding ding. I got the cowbell here. Okay, I’m gonna ring and we’re gonna have fun is chambers of commerce. And I have a resource at the end of the podcast, I’m going to tease everybody. It’s an article seven reasons why every chamber, every business should join the Chamber of Commerce. So I’m going to tease the listeners here. I’m going to make that resource available at the end. But it really ties into the fact that you are the center of glue for many are small to midsize companies. I know you have your big board members, your power companies, your nonprofits, your hospital systems, you need them for sure. However, if we’re to revive small midsize business going forward now in 2024, I believe that chambers are well positioned massive credibility and a track record to attract those new businesses or those businesses. You know, we’re kind of struggling still. Okay, this is exactly why you need the Chamber of Commerce. So I’m sticking to it, Brandon, I’ve seen it. I was very active in Chambers of Commerce for many years before I started my own company. And to me, they are the essential glue, that sometimes even chamber executives forget they’re too close to it. They deal with all the you know, the firefights, and the committees and the board member that drives them nuts is again, huge thank you keep bleeding because it does matter. Yes,

Brandon Burton 6:15
I love that great. Shout out to all the chambers listening. So thank you for that for sure. Tell us a little bit more maybe about the mind capture group. I know I shared some in your bio, but tell us a little bit about the work that you do and kind of where your focus is. Well, I

Tony Rubleski 6:31
think the big thing is I came up with a new tagline with our team Kelsey Sanders and she’s my MacGyver on the mind capture team is really what I looked at as I helped companies and their employees get inspired to share ideas instead of staying disengaged and quitting. I’m gonna repeat this is like our, our leading charge next year, going into 24. As we go into chambers of commerce, for example, I do a session for their local membership in the whole goal. If they had the nonprofit community there. Some leaders and lots of small midsize companies that send their teams is I’m there to inspire them to possibly disrupt their mindset, which isn’t easy, Brandon, because the world is so doggone negative. We’re trained and conditioned to be drawn to negative news and headlines, I just came off and NBC affiliate this morning on live television, thanking them for bringing me on TV. Because most of the time, it’s about all the bad things in the world, or the good things far out nobody the negativity. So this is where the chambers to me shine. They bring in high quality events, they bring in training and workshops, sometimes they bring me in. But the whole goal, when I’m doing training with the Chamber coming in is to say look, I want the Chamber members that bring their teams to get inspired. Many times the chamber staff will sit in the back and I’m like, Oh my gosh, we need this to get re inspired to so that we can feel like we can share ideas that were actually being heard. So if your audience you know, if you’re listening right now, unless you’re driving, be careful, we’re at the gym on the treadmill is please write this down. People want to be heard random. Your Chamber members want to be heard like ham, small business on Main Street or ham, the, you know, the side hustle a working mom that has a full time job and has a little side hustle business on Amazon or Etsy. And they join maybe reluctantly, because money is tight. They want to know that their voice, their concerns are being heard. So the chamber can say, hey, we’re listening. And we have some new programs or we’re working on some programs that we’re going to roll out to members like you to serve you as well, not just the big players, not the old established companies or community. But the emerging companies that are new and in the startup phase or the side hustle as they grow, they’ll never forget that the chamber was there for him. So that’s a lot of what I do. I do a lot of training. As you might imagine. In for me, sometimes what I’ve seen last two years is chambers like, look, we used to come in and talk to our board about leadership. So a lot of times, they’ll say, Hey, we’ve got your book to do a program for our membership. We want you to come in the night before and talk to our board about leadership. So it’s been fun to see that reemerges last year to come out of COVID because the boy leadership, you couldn’t give it away in 20 and 21. Because everyone’s just trying to like figure out what’s just happened here globally, we’re all kind of been put into a timeout, the economy’s kind of in a long position. And I’m in Michigan, and our state got shut down for almost a year and a half Brandon. I’m not here to play politics, but it dramatically impacted a lot of the small midsize businesses to get back on their feet. And to me, that was where the Chamber’s really could shine by saying hey, this is why you need us more than ever had the group collective to have more of a voice versus just being alone on Main Street. Come join us to promote Chamber of what commerce commerce is business activity. So I hope that helps.

Brandon Burton 9:44
Yes, absolutely. And I like how you talked about kind of that mission that you go forth with positively disrupting mindset and that’s kind of our topic for today is how to positively disrupt your chamber community or and all of that starts with your mindset as a leader at your organization and we’ll dive in much deeper on this as soon as we get back from this quick break.

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Brandon Burton 12:56
All right, Tony, we’re back. So right before the break, we talked about the title of this episode, being positively disrupting your chamber community, but also your mindset. What does that mean for you as a leader? And I know there’s a difference between leadership and management. But maybe touch on some of that throughout our conversation today. But how do you inspire individuals to positively disrupt their mindset and in turn their their organizations?

Tony Rubleski 13:27
Well, I think for today, knowing the chamber, many executives or their staffs that may listen to this podcast is that I want to really hone in on what I call the three G’s make it really simple, the three G’s to start 2024. The first one is gratitude. The second is goals. And the third is get healthy, and I’ll go real quick through each one of those, Brandon. But what I mean by this is I want every chamber professional listening right now, to know that I designed a lot of the thought process when I reached out to you to come on, of how do we tune in recharge you the chamber professional, you get drained. I know this because I’ve had conversations many of you privately, or I do staff retreats sometimes where they’re like, Man, I just feel like why do I do this some days. So if you’re listening right now, I want to really give this tour you the chamber pro in really gratitude as the first gene is to sometimes sit back and go, Wow, we are making a difference. Boy, we had 20 events this year. And most of them were successful. That’s something to be grateful for, but strip it down what I do every day that I think might be a value. Actually handwrite in a journal with a pen and paper what I’m grateful for every single day. I know it’s old school. It’s not high tech, but it works and here’s the reason why I think it works. It reminds us as a daily habit that we have so many good things going on, that we can overpower that one or two nine problems that all humans have. It’s that one headache or that one issue that many times clogs our mental space like a virus of the mind. So Starting to deal with gratitude. It could be as something as simple as in the shower, you say, Hey, I’m grateful for another day. But I’m a big believer that when you write things down or you look at your gratitude list or your goals each day, it helps inspire you. When someone’s not there to give you a motivational talk, Brandon, and you’ve got to get yourself inspired. So gratitude to me, it also helps you get out of a funk really like me and I just feel like you know, this events driving us nuts here, the chamber, you go, Wait a minute, we’ve done successful events before, we will lead this event forward. It’s not going to be easy, but it gives you that extra momentum to keep pushing towards the touchdown or the goal line when you feel like quitting. Okay, the second genius goals we all know this Brandon, a lot of times chamber executives say a lot of your stuff is basic, but we forgot this. Really when I am in the remind he business of things we have forgotten that make us successful in our careers. Okay, goals to me. Simple thing again, just write them down, review them off and check off the goals you make. And Sarah there’s there’s momentum going on here. Like a domino, that tip she took one domino, the rest of the dominoes fall, but stop and go live, I put 10 major goals for the year, I already hit two or three of them. With that reminders, you’ve done this before, and you can do it again. And again, when you write your goals down, it becomes more of a reality versus a dream or an idea or a wish, or a written goal inspires you to go hey, what there’s some more clarity here. Okay? The third area, the third G is to get healthy. I mean body, mind and spirit. If you’re listening, the mindset to me is very, very important. That’s my realm of expertise. Okay, motivation, inspiration, positive disruption into me, the world is so doggone negative, that if you allow someone in a meeting or any event to rattle you, and you carry that over throughout the day, that negative energy does rub off on your staff, it rubs off on potential members, it rubs off on people walking into your office. So the best thing you can do is to remind yourself, hey, I have to like reset, almost like you do with your computer, like Ctrl Alt Delete to reboot. Let’s say look, I have to defend my mindset each day. That’s why I talk about gratitude, having your goals, reminding yourself with pictures of things you’ve done successfully at the chamber. On those tough days to go, Hey, we’ve been in tougher situations, we’ll get through this. Continue about getting healthy physical, this the physicality of our health, Brandon, I work out five or six times a week not to boast. I made a goal 12 years ago when I turned 40 that part of me being self employed is Tony, you have to stay in shape. If someone’s flying you across to timezones and you’re in front of 500 people, you have to look good, feel good and exude that you’re healthy. So, to me, we’re at the New Year here. Maybe it’s something as simple as taking a walk a mile a day, maybe it’s joining a gym today and walking on the treadmill. I’m drinking water as we record this with my coffee, okay, more water, watching what you eat, you know, the Chamber lunch and the Chamber breakfast, maybe cut back and you say instead of two plates, I’m only gonna have one plate. It’s simple little things that stack up and you get those little wins. That if you start to compound those little micro goals towards your health, all of a sudden, February, March, you’ve lost 10 pounds. Well, you were more intentional. You set some little small goals. You chipped away at it, and you started to stack little successes on it. So to me the mindset part of the goals is very important as far as getting healthy, the physicality and also the spiritual side. I’m not here to preach or talk religion. That’s not my lane. But I can tell you having a good spiritual grounding I’ve learned in many executives in the chamber space are more open to this gives you more of a deeper intentionality. So regardless of what faith walk you have, or belief in a higher power, I believe that gives you more focus to say, hey, you know what, there’s a bigger picture going on here. What is the legacy that you as a chamber executive want to hand off? A lot of times, that’s more of a spiritual quest of like, say, hey, next 10 or 15 years in the chamber space, I want to leave the community better. While typically with some spiritual grounding the body mind spirit part of the health component, Brandon, that gives you a deeper why a deeper reason to when you want to quit the chamber. Trust me, I bet half the listeners are going oh my god, he knows that he’s been in my office. No, it’s a demanding job. But here again, as the reminder, like I said, the onset right now, leadership is in short supply. This is the time again, for chambers and more importantly, each of you listening to shine as a chamber Pro, to step up and lead the community when they really really need you. So write this down. Most communities really, really need you more than ever, because we are still in a very funky timeline, where there’s a lot of confusion. What do we have coming up later this year, a presidential election. It’s gonna get nasty. I believe it’s gonna get very negative. I don’t like to say those words. But I’m also very pragmatic brand and I’m an adult, that it’s where chambers can be like, Hey, we know we got some politics going on. There’s a lot of name calling but we’re here to the matter of who wins the president election. We’re going to be here the next 10 years the next 20 Next 100 Switch he was the chamber leader steam Positive, when everyone’s going to be really bombarded with negativity during the campaign that I’m sorry, a lot of politicians thrive on dividing, we have a lot more in common. This is another hint for your marketing for chambers, we have more in common than we have that’s dividing us. I know that’s controversial. It doesn’t sell radio spots or television ads. But I’m here to tell you that if you can be a uniter, a great listener, a great leader, show the community what you’re doing to positively disrupt and keep moving the community forward. You’re going to shine, you’re going to get referrals and you’re going to retain a lot more members because they’re gonna go wow, you’re like a beacon of light. And all this negativity right now, especially with all the politicians really cranking up the negativity from about probably June, July on till November. So I want a little bit bigger, broad picture there, but those three G’s to me pick and choose if you’re listening to Hey, no, I’m doing a couple of those are hanging on I need to get my health better this year, and maybe this will be the inspiration to do it.

Brandon Burton 20:58
Ya know, just to maybe expand on that a little bit. The gratitude aspect, I think it really puts in focus your why why do we do what we do, and having the gratitude and, and seeing you know, all the good things you have in your life kind of keep that motivation going. The goals, just a little tip strategy that I that I was introduced to me a few years back is to picture yourself, you know, sitting at a an airport, right? And a good friend you haven’t seen for years comes up to you. It says five years in the future, they come up to you and say, Brandon, how’s it going? You know, how’s life and you say it’s great, but you really mean it? Like, what about life is so great? And like form your goals from there? What does that future life look like? What are those things that you accomplished five years from now or a year from now? Or whatever that timeline is? And kind of make that be your vision kind of makes it a reality? And then getting help? Go ahead?

Tony Rubleski 21:56
Oh, thank you for sharing continue. I love this. It’s future pacing. And it’s a lot of people don’t talk about this, but I love to hear your perspective. Because it’s awesome.

Brandon Burton 22:04
Yeah, well, and I was in touch on getting healthy. I think there’s there’s a few things that human beings are meant to do, right, like walking, eventually walking and drinking some of these basic things, right. And for some of us, walking gets harder, you know, as we age or, you know, get out of health. So simple things like like walking with some strength training, I’ve heard some indicators for you know, longevity, is being able to have good grip strength, you know, can you hang from a bar and just, you know, kind of have that be a measurement of how long can you hang from a bar as kind of a marker for for longevity. So it’s just interesting things, the ability to jump, you know, up onto a little box or jump rope or something. Another key for longevity. So, just little little to add

Tony Rubleski 22:51
to that. That’s awesome is to add to that. Yeah, our physicality does change as we age. I’m 51. And I started guitar lessons three months ago, I’ve always wanted to take guitar, I’m self taught. And without the second lesson, I almost quit. You think me like no, you don’t quit. You’re a goal setting guy. You’re in all that personal development stuff. But Vincent, my guitar instructor was so patient like look, I know that chords driving me crazy because my fingers wouldn’t move the way my other chords did on the guitar. I just said this is frustrated. Like a little kid. He goes now you’re not the first guitar player. And the thing is, it’s a fun challenge to start guitar lessons at 51 I feel like a seven year old with him sometimes he does a great job of keeping it simple, but he also pushes me because I know how to I have good speed on the guitar and I know someone how to play so I can tell you one other way to get healthy mentally is to try a new challenge go after an old goal. Maybe you take up dancing lessons maybe you try swimming at the local YMCA or you know a health club that of course is a chamber member and just keep pushing yourself and I don’t know random people get bored there’s so much good stuff from YouTube to podcasts. So much free knowledge out there there’s tons of I’m sure many of your listeners know there’s many of your Chamber members have really cool businesses they might have a cooking class at the local restaurant, take up cooking that’s one thing my partner Linda and I have done is we’re learning to cook a new meal every month in the wintertime. So instead of just you know getting food out or eating on our own we say let’s make the stuff mushrooms today let’s make some chili next week or two and it’s giving us something that we can both do together that’s fun she’s a better cook than me honestly. And I’m learning and it makes we sit down have that meal much more appreciative and grateful because we made it we spent time connecting so there’s tons of ways you can look at this doesn’t always have to be read like a self help book that that isn’t wrong with that practical thing is that when people ask me how do you know what your why is well go back to when you were a child what really engaged your head your interest, and maybe it was sports so maybe you join a you know, a part time rec league for softball or intramural softball. Maybe you said hey, I used to be really big into football, maybe join a fantasy football league I don’t know, there’s plenty of cool opportunities instead of staying in the same old status stuck, right? In as members are listening or your subscribers are in chamber world. This is a new year. So why not try something new? Yeah,

Brandon Burton 25:15
absolutely. So earlier in our conversation, you mentioned something stood out to me about leadership being in short supply. And and you also alluded to there’s a certain loneliness that comes in leadership to you get doing the work, and you’re often the only one in your community doing the work that you’re doing. Can you expand a little bit more on that about the leadership being in short supply, and there may be chamber leaders, not to damp anybody’s parade, there might be chamber, quote unquote, leaders that aren’t maybe leading, you know, maybe they’re doing more managing of the chamber, but not necessarily leading? So what do you mean there?

Tony Rubleski 25:53
Well, that’s a great question. I think the danger is you get into firefighting mode, so that many chamber executives go, I know exactly what that is. So you have to watch how much firefighting you’re doing versus actually implementing in successfully pulling off your agenda and adding a few new things into it. But let me give you a few resources. Again, I’m in reminding business, I think some chamber execs, no, some are like, I have not heard of that. Many of the state groups have state associations for chamber executives. That to me is a no brainer. If I’m in your realm, you join your state chapter. In addition, you have everything from ACC, which is more of an American Chamber of Commerce executives, the US Chamber Institute, I be remissed, I used to be faculty member there for many years in the Midwest. So you have ILM program, which allows you to network with other chamber and Association Executives so that you realize I’m not alone here. And here’s the big aha, you can exchange best practices all the time. And that is wonderful to have multiple minds helping you solve a problem. If you’re the chamber executive in Omaha summit in Savannah, Georgia might have already done an event or solve a certain board challenge. They go, Oh my gosh, here’s how I dealt with that, that could shaving years of worry off, save you a lot of time and frustration by just networking. So those are a few resources. And here’s the thing about being lonely. I’ve been self employed for almost 20 years, Brandon. And when you’re leading the company, with our team, or I’m out and about doing trainings and workshops, I can’t tell them about maybe my personal life issues, that I’m struggling sometimes, too. Here’s the big myth. People think that, you know, motivational speakers, or inspirational people like me, are always positive. We’re not always positive. You know, I’ve had issues with my kids before I have former partners, you know, I’ve, I’ve had business failures, too, I’ve had lots of success. But you don’t go over Facebook and social media and talk about your failures. That’s typically where you show your wins. So again, it’s very similar. If you’re the chamber CEO or vice president with with a for profit businesses CEO, many times that office, they cannot fully reveal the stress they’re going through. So to me, leverage. There’s nothing wrong with joining associations or groups that are there to support you so that you realize, Wow, I’m not the one that’s going through this. And more importantly, you can exchange ideas that work to help each other to be even more successful. So, again, leadership to me, you don’t just wake up and you’re born a leader, you learn to become a leader by doing the repetitions by doing the projects by getting work experience by failing a lot. John Maxwell calls it failing forward, the great leadership expert, you’re going to fail forward, you’re gonna have some events that fail and some that win, okay, we need to focus more on the winners, and then start to maybe get rid of a few events that are taking up too much of our staff too much bandwidth, we’re not making as much, you know, revenue off of it. That’s a constant adjustment of, if you’re like an airplane pilot, the stick that flies the airplane, you’re constantly making those mid course corrections, as you’re flying the plane is a leader because there’s turbulence, there’s change, there’s new passengers coming on the plane, you have to know how to land the plane, which to get the event done successfully, you know how to take the plane off, which is starting something new. So I don’t know where that aviation reference came from. But it seems to be a good parallel to what chamber life is like

Brandon Burton 29:04
it is and to go along with that the pilot has all this data, right, they’ve got all their dials and controls and altitude and everything that they can see kind of at their fingertips. And at your organization, if you don’t have the key data points to be able to make those decisions to be able to say, our revenues up or membership or attendance or whatever the things are that are important to you to measure at these events or at your organization in general with membership or programs or whatever it may be. Then how do you know what direction to go like you need to collect those key data points and revisit them often to see you know where you’re trending Are you going up or down? Is it positive momentum or negative and make those adjustments just like a pilot with Yeah,

Tony Rubleski 29:50
and the other thing too is for those members are listening is watch who in your chamber space locally that you’re listening to. I call it misery loves company, or Eagles hang out with Eagles misery loves company is the chamber that says, you know, all my other neighbor chamber executives around me and the surrounding committees are all complained about this watch out for that. It can bring you down. I’m not saying you ignore the obvious but you don’t spend as much time at the water cooler on a zoom call weinan Is there what do we do to solve it? And Eagles hang on Eagles is the other opposite side of the pendulum, model other successful chambers. It’s easy now in the point and click rule of either your cell phone or your laptop to find out what other chambers are doing online that successful pick up the phone and call chamber that’s two states away and say, Hey, I’m Executive here or vice president we want to try to do you have five or 10 minutes. It’s not being afraid to put yourself out there. And here’s the biggest mistake that most people make in business, including chambers. They don’t ask a SK, they don’t ask for an introduction to a potential member. They don’t ask a board member for some advice. They don’t ask another, you know, potential business. Hey, what do you guys struggling with? We assume that they’re going to tell us and we think well, I don’t want to bug them. I don’t want to be a problem. I know they’re busy. No, you don’t? If you hear the word no, it’s not going to kill you, Brandon. It’s not what you don’t get unless you ask it’s the old Wayne Gretzky quote from the hockey world, you’ll miss 100% of the shots you don’t take. Same with asking for help. There’s nothing wrong with it. If anything, it endears your peers to the fact that, hey, you’re just like me, you’re human. And you’re willing to listen to new ideas and even counter viewpoints to push you.

Brandon Burton 31:25
So hope that helps him as the younger crowd would say shoot your shot, right? So I wanted to ask for chambers listening who wants to take their organization up to the next level? Or you could say who want to positively disrupt their organization? What tip or action item might you have to share beyond what you’ve already shared with us that they could maybe implement in their organization?

Tony Rubleski 31:51
I think is we we aired this in the new year starting 2024 Is this is be thinking yourself, who can your best Chamber members take you to? That’s not a chamber member yet. Those not yet members. And here’s what I would give. If I was working with you in a in your boardroom, I’d look at your 1520 board members, for example, say, Hey, who are two or three businesses here in the community that need to be a part of this chamber? If I’m the executive, I grab the pen and paper I record and I write down. All right, Mike, were two or three companies that you do business with here in Omaha that are a part of the chamber, I’d like to reach out to them and talk about why they should consider joining the Omaha chamber. And you let your your current disciples, your true believers bring in more people via referral. I call it introductions. And matter of fact, I do an entire session on this for the last 20 years teaching referral marketing, specifically for Chambers as who can your top members introduce you to even if they used to be a chamber member brand. And here’s what I want to really convey everyone listening, don’t let the old biases of the history damper your ability to go back and say, Hey, that chambers keeps evolving. We’ve changed. We’ve got some new folks on we knew you remember 10 years ago, let me ask you has your business changed, our business has changed a lot the last 10 years, so has the chamber. That’s how you get rid of that old history. And you reopen the door because the only constant is change and grow forward. So that would be my big tip is your best members can bring it to other people that can join. If you ask them in, the more specific you get Brandon, if it’s one restaurant, you say who are two or three of the restaurants here in town that you network with a really respect to their good that haven’t heard of the chamber, the more specific on the Ask the much higher chance or probability they’re going to give you a referral because you’ve made it where they go, oh, yeah, I was just talking to my buddy Mike at the other law firm. For example, one lawyer talks to a lawyer, another banker might talk to another bank or credit union will talk to another credit union. So work vertical markets, ask intentionally and be very specific. So I just gave you a referral magic seminar in like two minutes.

Brandon Burton 33:56
For free to how about that? So I’m really like asking everyone I have on the show as we look to the future of chambers of commerce. I know you’ve got a long history working with chambers. How do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Tony Rubleski 34:14
I think it bodes well for the chambers that believe in themselves. And if you don’t get too mired up in the politics, not only that the national level, but the the regional and the local is This to me is where chambers can really thrive. I gave up several clues in the interview, that small midsize companies sometimes are never even approached about chamber membership. Many of them know that they’re battling. Let’s be very candid. The data doesn’t lie. A lot of the big businesses during the pandemic got huge PTP loans that were never repaid and have to pay them back in a lot of small midsize mainstream businesses, the numbers, how many went out of business? They’re having a tough go at it. So I’m not saying you pick on your big members or your anti corporate America, but that’s a good data point to notice that, hey, we understand that it was challenging last few years, we want to help you grow forward and introduced other people that can help your business, bring you training to help you retain more employees to attract more employees. And that is a very, very key hot button for a lot of small mid sized companies as the chamber can help introduce them to those opportunities. So I believe the chamber future if you have the right mindset, obviously, it’s very much you can grow now, when the economy is really good. Here’s the paradox. People are too busy for the chamber, usually, while we’re just so busy, because everything’s going well, when you have a challenge economy or a flat economy. That’s where if you’re proactive in your outreach chambers can really, really flourish. So flourish while the timing is right, which to me, there’s the next several years. And

Brandon Burton 35:48
absolutely, and it is a paradox, you know, for the individual businesses or the economy in general, you know that the times that the chamber is really called upon is when it’s the toughest time. So as we wrap up here, I wanted to give you an opportunity, Tony to share any contact information for listeners who might want to reach out and connect. I know, you had also teased about an article that you wanted to share as well. Okay, good. Good recall,

Tony Rubleski 36:14
Brandon. So two things, the easiest way to find these, if you go to mind capture group.com, that’s my main web page, you’ll see my face there, and all the other goodies there. But MindCaptureGroup.com what I really want to issue as a special bonus here, for those that are listening, is I have an article on my blog, and you can try to find it, I’ll make it easy. Send me a direct email, or even a Facebook message. My email is simply Tony@MindCaptureGroup.com, I will send you a direct link, I’m not going to spam you, I’m not going to email you to the end of time. So please, no, I’m not going to do that. But the article is called “7 Reasons Every Business and Nonprofit Should be a Member of their Local Chamber of Commerce”. I can’t write a better headline than that. But the article on the blog post, feel free to share it, it’s copyright free. Share that with prospective members, share it with people that are getting ready to renew. But it’s a great article written from years of experience in the industry, of why more than ever, you should join the chamber. So it’s on my blog, but it’s a little tricky to find. So if you email me again, Tony at mind capture group.com put, you know the Chamber Chat Podcast, or you know the article seven reasons, I’ll make sure I send that to you right away. But again, I want to make sure we added a ton of value, because you’re only going to remember maybe a couple of key points from this interview. I know that because I listen to podcasts. And I want to make sure there’s some take home value that you can share with the organization that may not hear this podcast as well. Now,

Brandon Burton 37:36
and I appreciate that having that article that resource available to share. We will get your email and website in our show notes for this episode, too, to make it easy for people to reach out to you to get that article. But I hope as this episode comes to an end that everyone listening takes a few moments. And just hit pause, don’t let the next episode start playing. Just sit in some silence. Think about those three G’s, the gratitude goals and getting healthy. And what does that look like for you in 2024? And write down some notes about that, and maybe revisit it towards the end of the year and see, see what positive changes what positive disruption you’ve seen in your life. But Tony, it’s been a blast having you with us today. On the podcast, you have delivered a lot of value for us. If you have any, any parting words, before we let you go? I’ll let you share that. And then we’ll we’ll let you go.

Tony Rubleski 38:33
A couple things here. Thank you again, Brandon for bringing me on. I love it. I signed on scout in your chamber chat podcast for many months when I reached out to him, I love this. So thank you for what you’re doing. And I guess no happy new year. You know, if anything, know that what you do is extremely important. I’m getting ready to re up at one of my chambers here in Michigan, I’m going to call them up and say hey, I’m ready to join again. So I’m also an active, I don’t just preach about it, I actively work a couple of chambers in my home community. So thank you for what you do. And keep up the good work and know that especially now in the year of election, this to me is where the chamber really has a powerful chance to shine against that negative and say, Hey, we’re doing good things here locally. Come check us out. So thank you for that.

Brandon Burton 39:18
Absolutely. Thanks for being with us, Tony. This has been great.

Tony Rubleski 39:22
Thank you everybody.

Brandon Burton 39:25
If you are a chamber professional, please subscribe to Chamber Chat Podcast in Apple podcast, Google podcasts or Spotify. When you subscribe to Chamber Chat Podcast new episodes will show up in your podcast app each week as they are released. If you’re finding value in this podcast, please leave us a rating and a review in iTunes. But most importantly, please share Chamber Chat Podcast with your colleagues that are in the industry.

Elevating Engagement with Amanda Lea Kaiser

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Let’s hear from Becky Womble, President of the Bastrop Chamber to hear about her experience with Community Matters.

Learn how you can partner with Community Matters, Inc. to produce your next Chamber Directory, Community Guide or Map.

Our guest for this episode is Amanda Lea Kaiser. Amanda is a keynote speaker and author of Elevating Engagement: Uncommon Strategies for Creating a Thriving Member Community. Through her research, Amanda is at the forefront of exploring how member and attendee engagement is rapidly changing when within professional communities. I’ll have to say as a side note, as I read through her book, I very much was able to visualize all of you as listeners, both attending your state and national chamber conferences and engaging on those levels, but also taking some of these lessons learned to your local chamber organization. So as we go through our conversation today, I hope you can see some of those parallels as well. But Amanda, I wanted to welcome you to the show give you a chance to say hello to all the Chamber Champions that are listening and if you wouldn’t mind sharing something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better.

Amanda Lea Kaiser 2:58
All right. Hey, Brandon, thank you so much for having me here on your podcast and hello Chamber Champions. It’s it’s great to be here. Okay, something interesting about myself. So I got my start at Crayola and I rose up the ranks and marketing so I’ve got a classic marketing background. And and now I’m the keynote speaker but maybe even more interesting than that. I’ve got a two kittens adopted me during COVID I don’t know if if you’re a cat dad, but they adopt us I don’t think we adopt them. And and I named them after Muppets. So I love the Muppets, Kermit and all of those guys. So so my cat’s names are Robin in between. And you might see them running in and out because that’s what they do. Awesome.

Brandon Burton 3:44
Yeah, I did notice the Kermit quote in the book as well. So that carries through. I’m not a cat, dad. But I understand what you mean. It doesn’t matter how much you like the cat they have to like you to adopt. Right? Well, I am excited to get into our topic of conversation today. I think chambers across the country, even globally, are constantly thinking about the ways to elevate the engagement of their membership or their investors or those who participate in their organization at at any level. I often will out I’ll hear chambers talk about doing the yellow highlighter exercise where they will print out their membership list and then with a yellow highlighter, go through and mark any chamber member who’s participated or actively engaged with the Chamber in any way. And that may be the main sponsor of their annual banquet. It may be the sponsor of their board room, or maybe just somebody who’s constantly liking their Facebook posts. So literally any level of engagement and as they do this yellow highlighter exercise, oftentimes there’s not a whole lot of Yeah, low on that sheet once it’s marked up. So I think we’ll, we’ll be in for a treat today with a lot of these tips and ideas around how to elevate engagement with our memberships. So we will dive into this discussion as soon as we get back from this quick break.

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Donna Novitsky 7:36
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Brandon Burton 8:31
All right, Amanda, we’re back. So as I mentioned before the break, we’re, we’re talking about elevating engagement, you’ve got a book all about it. Some could say maybe you’re an expert on it. And I’m a little bit hesitant at all really setting the stage that way. I think I told you before we got on the recording. It’s like introducing a comedian and telling everybody how funny that comedian is and then your your setup to deliver. So you know, no pressure at all, but I’m looking forward to an engaging conversation. Good. So maybe let’s just start with why did you write the book like what what was it about your background and maybe personal history that led up to this moment where you’re like, there needs to be a book about elevating engagement of these membership organizations? Yeah,

Amanda Lea Kaiser 9:21
so Okay, so let me give you just a kind of quick, sober, quick, speedy history to get us to this point. So like I said, I started at Crayola. And then I had a couple of jobs in my career where I worked at an advertising agency and then I landed in a NAT at a national association. So I worked I worked in for a higher ed Association. Super cool. It was the first time that I even realized that associations and chambers and they were even a thing I just didn’t know until that point until I started working for them and I was director of marketing there. And and it just completely We opened my eyes. And I was so delighted by how collegial these professional groups are. They’re, they’re really fantastic. So I decided to open up my own business. And I was a qualitative researcher, my, my marketing focus has always been on research. And I decided to pursue the qualitative research side of things. And during my time, as a qualitative researcher, I worked with 33 different associations and got a chance to personally talk to 477 members from all different walks of life. And the conversations with them did two things, one, I would ask them about their industry or their profession. And the second thing that I asked them about was, what is it like to be a member? What is it like to attend? You know, what is engagement like, and all of that, and as I was conducting these interviews, one thing that I found is there’s this gap between members, and attendees and, and leadership, right. And so, so that’s why I wrote the book, I wanted to close that gap. And just to give you a sense of the gap is, is, you know, members, our members are having an experience there, whenever they engage with us, they’re having an experience, and very often when we’re on the inside, and I can say this, for sure, as the as being a staff person on an association, a lot of what we’re trying to do is we’re trying to provide value, we’re trying to do the administrative stuff very right. And we’re not, we’re not focused on the experience. And so, so that’s what this book is all about. The book is all about closing the gap. And and I’m also doing a ton of keynoting. Right now. And so I start out every time by saying we’re here to close that gap between you and your members.

Brandon Burton 11:52
Yeah, I like that. I think that’s a good summary. And that does kind of set the stage a little bit here. So my background is in chamber publishing. And often I’ll even joke with some of the different advertisers Chamber members that were selling ads to that. I often will hear a chamber member say that they want to advertise and whatever the chamber publication is, because there’s almost a sense of guilt, that they join the chamber at some point. And they see all the emails from the chamber about the networking mixer, the after hours, the Chamber luncheon, annual banquet, you know, there’s always something that golf tournament. And there’s a sense of guilt that they can’t be at all of the things, you know, they work during the day, so they can’t go to the luncheon or they’ve got family life after work. So they can’t go to the after hours. So they see doing some sort of advertising with the chamber as a way to engage. So how would you look at engagement? How do you define engagement? As you look at a membership organization, I guess what counts when it comes to? To engagement? Yeah, yeah.

Amanda Lea Kaiser 13:04
So So advertising counts and attending accounts. So so let me let me kind of step back, though, because what I tend to do is I tend to define engagement, the way a member would defined engagement and the way members define engagement is almost solely around emotions. And I actually, I asked when I when I keynote, I asked my audience this, I’ll ask them what is what does engagement feel like when you’re really engaged? What does that feel like? And I’ll ask them to, to recount a professional or personal community that they’re very, very engaged in, you know, what, when that makes their heart very happy. And so this is some of what they’ll say they’ll they’ll say, I feel valued. I feel welcomed, I feel belonging, connected, excited, inspired, it’s energizing, I feel included. I feel focused, I feel peaceful, I feel worthy. I feel like I’m being seen. That’s just some of the words this is I got 139 responses. But those are some of the key words that came up over and over again, so. So engagement is all about emotions. And when you’re when your members or our members are making decisions to engage, they’re making very emotional decisions. That what they’re what they’re what they’re trying to work out and might not be even conscious. But unconsciously they’re trying to say is this community for people like me, do people like me join a chamber like this? You know, do people like me go to events like this? Do Am I gonna find my people here? Am I gonna be long am I you know, all of those things. That’s, that’s the kind of what’s going on in the back of their minds. And so, I, I love to define engagement all around how members see engagement, because you’re right when we when we on the business side, talk about engagement. We’re talking about joins and when rules and registrations and opens and reads and click throughs and all of that. So we’re talking about the metrics of engagement. But I love to think about engagement as that, that very emotional emotions and feelings that drive those decisions to engage. And so that’s that’s typically where I’m coming from. Yeah.

Brandon Burton 15:26
What you said almost sound like a Seth Godin quote, right? People like us do things like this. Yeah. And it’ll often talked about enrollment, right? So the engagement level kind of at Next stage is yes, I want to engage. And now I’m going to enroll I am all in, I’m going to fully participate. And I know that’s a few steps down from where how you kind of break down that, that member journey, or that the experience journey. So maybe touch on that a little bit, because I think so much of that, the beginning of that membership journey is where that emotion really is probably at its peak. There’s some reason why they’re choosing to attend the conference or choosing to join the chamber. And I’ll say everybody does it for slightly different reasons. But understanding what that emotion what that driver is, I think, is so key to being able to help them have a successful journey going forward with the chamber. Yeah, can outline that for

Amanda Lea Kaiser 16:28
us? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So I’m so glad that you started touching on well, you know, what, what happens at the beginning, because So, for most professional communities, what they find is new members are the most fragile members. And, and so, you know, people, if you look at your metrics, you might see people join, and then they never engage. And then it’s not a surprise when they don’t renew, right, and, and so, so they’re very, very fragile. And, and so what we need to do is start appealing to their emotions, one of the one of the things that I often will say, when people are asking for, like, what is the definition of engagement, I’ll say, there’s two parts, there’s, there’s value, so we got to provide value. And the other part is positive experiences. So you want to provide good value and positive experiences. And when you do that, members will engage. And I would wager to bet that your chambers provide lots of amazing value, you know, people, all of you chamber pros, you’re doing all of these events, you’re publishing, you’re emailing, you’re providing all kinds of really amazing things and lots and lots of value. And it’s, it’s frustrating when people aren’t joining, and or it’s or renewing or engaging in, in some way. And so the, the piece that’s often missing is the experience part, the the part that triggers all of the emotions, and, and so this is very salient for new members, you know, new members join, they often don’t understand how to really engage, there is the old the emails are coming in there is I’ve heard that, Brandon, that guilt factor that you were talking about in so from so many different types of members, you know, they’re, they’re sending me emails, I feel like I and what they will say is, I’m not engaging, and it’s, it’s my fault. It’s not them, they’re, they’re making every effort, it’s me, right? And, and I can see that there’s a lot of benefits, I can see that there’s a lot of events and in what they would normally tell me is I feel like I’ve got to start going to these events, which I can never do, because the timing doesn’t work out. Or I’ve got to spend a lot of time on their website, understanding what they do. And I just don’t I don’t have the time yet. And, and so I think what we need to figure out is how to connect a lot quicker with them, you know, how to have how to provide a teeny bit of value so that they understand that taking that leap to come to your events makes a lot of sense. And also connecting on that emotional level. And you do that with experiences. So are there phone calls? Are there? Is there kind of a special quick Fitbit fun email that you could write to them, you know, what are all of the experiences that you can provide to new members that will get them saying this is not only going to be worth my time, but I think that this is going to be a really fun group. There’s a lot of energy. I’m super excited.

Brandon Burton 19:35
Yeah. And as you’re saying that it reminds me in the chamber industry, there’s a lot of focus on with the engagement of members to try to make the shift from being a transactional relationship to be more of a transformational relationship and that way, hopefully, if that’s communicated and modeled in correct ways, the guilt factor hopefully isn’t there. as much because they’re not in it, they didn’t join to say what’s in it for me, but they’re they joined to be part of something bigger, that’s making a positive impact in their community. I see some chambers that have the option to join their chamber right on their website, we can enter your name, credit card information, and click Submit. And you’re done. You’re a member. And I’m sure there’s the onboarding emails that come in. But that chamber doesn’t know anything about that member, why they joined, they didn’t really share their mission, their vision, any of that. And oftentimes, those are coming from another member as a referral. So you know, you need to be a part of the chamber, right? So I think right from the beginning, there tends to be a little bit of a disconnect. And I love in the book, you talked about doing a listening tour. And I think that could probably come in and in a couple different stages along the member journey. But to really tap into that emotion and their why you want to maybe expand a little bit on the listening tour, and how that can kind of pull on that emotion. Yeah,

Amanda Lea Kaiser 21:08
absolutely. So let me let me give you a couple of tangible stories that I heard dirt while I was while I was interviewing members. So. So there’s a couple of associations that were doing a really good job, and I got a chance to figure out what they were doing from their member saying I was on I was the recipient of the listening tour. And so there’s one, one association that did a very interesting thing. Now they had not very many members joining. It wasn’t like they were having hundreds of members join every week, they might have been having 10s of members join every week. And and so the the director of marketing of that particular organization, would schedule a call, it was about a 20 minute call with every single new member. And during that call, she would ask them a series of questions, you know, hey, tell me about yourself. And when did you start working at this company? Or when did you you know, when did you start the company? She would, she would ask them questions about projects, they were working on what their goals were, what their mission was, what if they’re having any challenges, she might even ask them, you know, what, tell me about some trends. And she would, she would take careful notes, and she listen intently. And at the end of the call, probably with maybe, I don’t know, three, four minutes to go, she would say this has been so interesting. And there’s a couple of things that I heard you talk about, that we might be able to help out with, there’s you talked about this really interesting project that you’re working on. And not many of our members are working on a project like this, but I know that Sue is. And I would love to introduce you, it’d be okay, if I introduced you to Sue, I think she’s a couple of steps ahead of you. And, but you know, I can introduce you via email in and then she will, she would also say and I also heard you talk about this system, that we’ve got some data from some of our research, or we’ve got an event coming up where we’re going to be talking about this topic, we’d love to have you I’m going to follow up with some emails. And so you know, she get off the phone and immediately send some emails, one introducing that new member to sue a longtime member and tell in telling Sue and you know, reminding this this person while why she was introducing them, and then she would follow up with a separate email saying, hey, you know, as we were talking, I told you, I was going to send you this research report and this invite to this event and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So that that’s very time consuming very hands on for this organization that works. Because they don’t have a lot of members. Other organizations, there is the listening tour where you get into your car, you know, or your your get your staff into a van, and you book breakfast, lunch and dinner. Or you go to people’s offices or places of work or factories and and you spend 15 or 20 minutes with them doing the same kind of thing, asking them questions, touring, just being there letting them be seen. And it’s such a pleasure because now when they come to an event, they already know a friendly face. So there’s there’s that part. The other thing is if you are with a chamber that’s maybe spans a large geographic area, there’s a virtual orientation events. Now the virtual orientation events are not orientation webinars, there are much more responsive than that. So so people come you know, your new members come into a Zoom meeting. And then you ask them the same kind of questions, you know, where, where do you work what what kind of organization is your company? Tell us a little bit about it. What are some of your goals? What are some of the projects that you’re working on? And then as everybody’s feeding information to you, you the host can do some pattern matching for the biggest things that people are They’re struggling with and then make that link for them between their problem back to the to what the chamber provides in terms of, of benefits or upcoming meetings or something like that. So. So I love that you were talking about, you know, these these member listening tours, because there’s so many ways that they actually work, Brandon. And that’s really the key to it all. When when you know your members and you hear them talking over and over about their goals, then then we serve them a lot better. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 25:30
there was one chamber executive I talked to one time and he talked about how he’ll do three breakfasts each day, they’ll go meet with different members there. The first one maybe is just having a coffee is the second breakfast, awesome makes the third one, maybe a phase three. So he’s breaking it up. But he’s getting to three different member businesses to have these breakfasts. And he’s meeting with other members there. So like the levels of engagement with the organization with the members is on multiple levels, and able to gather a lot of that very important information to be able to better serve the member. And I love that. So it does kind of seem like though in today with everything digital, and we’ve got in person events, we got virtual events, we get emails, get social media, we’ve got podcasts, we’ve got YouTube, we’ve got all these different ways to get our messaging out there. Does that make it harder or easier to engage members? Like how it I think I can see both sides of the coin, but I’d love to hear your approach and maybe how chambers might want to look at this. Yeah,

Amanda Lea Kaiser 26:41
what I’m hearing across the board is, is engagement is getting harder, it’s harder to engage attendees most virtually and in person, it’s harder, harder to engage members, it’s harder to get those opens and reads. It’s just I think it’s harder. And some people are saying, you know, this is not uniform. There’s some associations and some chambers that are seeing these bright spots, like, hey, we went back into person. And and, and we’ve got some of our in person events are doing amazing. And we’re still doing virtual, and some of those are doing amazing. So this is not, engagement isn’t universally going down the tubes. But I think it is getting harder. And one of the reasons why it’s getting harder is is really time and attention. You just hit on it, Brandon, there’s so many ways that we’re trying to reach members. But there’s so many ways that they’re getting content and they’re connecting. And they’re you know that it’s just sort of, we all have a very frantic pace of life these days. And so we’ve got to do something different to engage members than what we did before. And I’m so glad that you asked that question about communications, because this is sort of a really great time to talk about how you not only provide value, but you also provide the experience so so every time we communicate, there’s two things that we’re trying to do. The first is the what we say. And that’s the value, it’s the message we’re trying to get across. The second thing we’re trying to do is is or the second thing we communicate is how we say it. And this is the tone, it’s the voice. And and this might be something that you’ve talked about a lot in publishing is the tone or the voice. And so I love to think about tone on a continuum. And so on one side of the continuum, there’s the very institutional tone, the very professional polished tone, it’s a lot of big words, it’s when we’ve got our business hat on, that’s the tone we tend to fall into is the institutional tone. On the other end of the continuum, I have a what I call the best friend forever tone, sometimes we’ll also call it the happy dog tone. So if you go into your personal email, and you read, you just quickly, like scan your personal email of all of the brands and companies and products you really love. They’re talking to you and the happy dog tone, there’s emoji, there’s hashtags, it’s casual, they’re talking to you like they’re your best friend. But for some reason, when we’re doing business to business, and we put our business hats on, we talk very, we tend to talk very institutional. And so I just like to remind everybody, that tone is on a continuum, and you can pick anywhere you want to be, and especially with your new members, they’re they’re looking for all of those cues on whether to belong, you know, is this the place for people like me, they’re looking for those belonging cues. And when you can warm up your tone in your emails or warm up your tone and your phone calls, you know, or any of the information you’re sending out to new members. They the sense that they sense that this is going to be a happy, warm, lovely place for them to meet other people and connect.

Brandon Burton 29:54
Yeah. So when I think of, maybe an in person or even a virtual event I think to on an event stage, it’s a maybe a little easier to gauge the engagement. You can see if people are looking down at their phone or distracted or getting up to get a drink or, you know, just the distraction, where as we try to with these communication channels, I’d love that you brought the the tone and the voice into the happy dog messaging. Besides maybe some of these metrics that we look at the open rates and social engagement tools, are there other ways that we can see if our message is landing, right? If we’re how do we get that kind of feedback when we’re not in a room or a Zoom Room even to be able to get that that instant? Hopefully, positive feedback. Yeah,

Amanda Lea Kaiser 30:47
yeah. So people are always asking me how, how do you measure engagement and and there are, you know, I think when your members are doing the yellow highlighter exercise, they’re measuring engagement, looking at your renewals, it’s a measured metric and a measure of engagement. And so as you’re engaging members and attendees differently, you’re going to see that metric go up some some organizations use Net Promoter Score, some of them do things as sophisticated as Engagement scoring. And so again, over time, if you’re, if you’re focused on those experiences, you’re gonna see those those metrics go up. But, but it’s engagement is a tough one. Because it’s very hard to make one change, it’s very hard to say, Okay, we’re gonna make this one event more experiential, and we’re gonna see renewals fly off the chart, that’s not the way it works, right? There’s, there’s, there’s not a lot of like one to one direct comparisons, you just sort of see a general lift over time. So So I think sometimes we have to measure engagement, again, with our own emotions, which is, you know, is there what’s the energy like? Okay, so we’re making it we’re making some improvements to try to be more engaging and say this one event? Was the energy better? Did people walk out smiling, you know, for virtual, one of the things that I think is a really good predictor of a virtual meeting is what’s going on with the chat. Now, you can do a lot of things to have a really robust chat and as a, as a very often speaker, I love the robust chat. I love when I’m talking. And people are busy in the chat and they’re talking to each other. And they’re asking each other questions and they’re tuning in to listen to me and they’re plussing up what I say and then plussing up what everybody else says. And that’s for me that schools because because they’re sure they might be listening to me and engaging with me, but they’re in if they’re engaging with each other. That’s lovely, too. So, so if you’re doing lots of virtual events have chat ambassadors in there. And that can be a micro volunteering opportunity for one of your members. Or it could be a staff, you know, job, but have those chat ambassadors in there that are, you know, they’re plussing up what other people say? And they’re asking questions, and they’re, they’re kind of saying, Oh, this, you know, the speaker said this, what do you think about this, everybody and, and really try to foster that excitement and get it going. And that’s, that’s You’ll sense the energy, you’ll, you’ll sense it, whether you’re virtual or in person, and that that’s almost I think, is Valley or it is as valid as some of those tangible metrics.

Brandon Burton 33:26
Yeah. So I hope this doesn’t feel like we’re taking a step back. But I was thinking about the emotion as people engage with an organization that emotion is, you’re able to maybe give them some small wins along the way. So in the book, you talk about, like speaking from stage, there’s little engagement questions or things you can do to warm up the room, right. So they’re engaging on a very minimal risk or risk free environment where they have nothing to lose if they just participate and engage. And as a member joins an organization. And there’s other little quick wins, I’ll say that you can do to kind of trigger that emotion or positively reinforced that emotion of yes, you’re here for a good reason. We’re here to listen to like, all of those things. Are there any strategies or tips that you want to share around maybe those small quick wins to warm up the audience or the new member, to help encourage them to give them that confidence to be able to engage at higher levels as they progress through their their membership journey?

Amanda Lea Kaiser 34:38
Yeah, let me let me tell you about a totally unexpected story that I heard when I was doing those interviews and it’s a it’s a story that I heard over and over and over in different ways with different words. But what I would hear people say is I went to my very first event for this organization. And while I was waiting in the registration Mine welcomer I didn’t know it at the time, but people were circulating, and they were talking to all of us in the line. And in somebody stopped and talked to me, and it was maybe just two sentences. And it was it, it made me feel like this community is super open and warm and welcoming. And it and I felt like I had to step out of my shell and I am going to, to just talk to other people, I’m going to introduce myself to other people and just see how it goes. And so, so it’s like, new members come in, and we have to give them the teeniest little nudge or a teeny little bit of permission, so that they can go and make their experience great for themselves. And so whenever we can do that, it’s great. So So let’s see, how do you do that you can do that with welcomers that in person events, you know, kind of warming up the crowd for in person or virtual events. Think about your icebreaker, you know, what is what is a an icebreaker question or an activity that is super safe and super easy. And so I’ll give you just an example, when I’m getting together a group and I want to get them to be really creative, I want to I want the group bubbling up lots of ideas, I want them collaborating with each other. And the topic is not is not very serious, you know, it’s we’re working on, we’re just going to work together on this problem. And we’re gonna have a really great time doing it. One of the questions that I love to ask is, would you like to be a dragon? Or have a dragon and why? And in the why is the key, you know, you can pick either one, but I love to ask why. And so you can ask that, you know, in person, with a smaller group, you can ask it on, you know, virtual meeting and get people responding in the chat. But that, you know, again, you’re you’re popping them out of the expected stuff. And in the their professional world, and you’re bringing them into sort of a different surprising experience where they can have a little bit of fun with it. They tap in their answer, and now they’ve started participating, which is half the battle, because once once you start once, then you’ll you’ll form that habit and you’ll keep participating. That’s

Brandon Burton 37:12
awesome. Having read the book, I knew that was the question you’re gonna you’re gonna bring up it’s I was waiting for the dragon question. So I’m glad you glad you brought it out. As we begin to wrap things up here, I wanted to ask usually I’ll ask for maybe a tip or action item for listeners who want to take their organization up to the next level. And what you would offer I think I may want to read phrase that too, for an organization that a chamber listening who would like to level up the engagement of their members to the next level? Where should they start? Yeah,

Amanda Lea Kaiser 37:50
yeah, absolutely. Oh, let me backtrack and tell you one other one. So if you’re looking for more icebreakers, or energizers the other one that is surprisingly, super fun, and people get you know, they have this very fun argument about it is, is a hot dog a sandwich. So what do you think Brandon? Is the hot dog sandwich? Or is it not a sandwich?

Brandon Burton 38:13
I’m gonna go yes. Is it the same way a cheesesteak is the sandwich.

Amanda Lea Kaiser 38:17
Oh, there you go. Yeah. Yeah. So so interesting. Usually, usually groups completely divide. And there’s some squabbling around if a hotdog is a sandwich and to my knowledge, there’s no real answer, you know, just like, Alright, are you know, is white chocolate, chocolate, you know, again, you get the you know, those are those are fun cup questions to ask.

Brandon Burton 38:40
In cornbread, and you have a corndog. Now, that’s a whole nother topic. I don’t agree with that. Yes,

Amanda Lea Kaiser 38:47
yeah. Yeah, that feels not sandwich like to me, but yeah, yeah, absolutely. Okay, so. So what, you know, what can they do to take things to the next level, what, what I would suggest is go and start identifying all of your transactions anytime you have a transaction. So joining as a transaction renewing as a transaction, opening an email is transaction registering as a transaction registration at your events as a transaction. And in so think about and so like, anytime the staff has a job to do, you’re doing administrative stuff for that transaction. So think about how you can seamlessly keep doing the administrative part of it, and then layer the expensive experience on top of it. So that’s, that’s how you close that gap is to keep doing what you’re doing in terms of the transaction and the administrative stuff, but now figure out how to layer the positive experience on top. It’s easier than you think it is. So like, let’s say you’re, you’re you’re doing registration at one of your events, and you’ve got you know, 100 people coming through the door, and you need to give them all badges within 10 minutes or something like that, you know, people are coming at you, and you’ve got to log them. And you got to give them all their badges, even even in those moments where you’re so busy and so frantic, just smile, like just keep giving them a genuine smile. And now you’ve layered on that positive experience. I

Brandon Burton 40:22
love that. And I was thinking, I don’t know, man, I don’t know if this holds true all the way through or not. But if, in talking about those micro wins, as you know, micro positive experiences and micro engagements. Hopefully, if they’re engaging on that small risk free level, a way of maybe measuring that as if they’re engaging again, like if they’re taking another step, you know, on that journey. And if they’re, if they’re stalling out, if you make that initial engagement, and they stall out, maybe the communication needs to be refined, maybe you need to get more information. But they hopefully should be making another step and other engagement along the way. Would you agree with that? Or is that just totally my own thought? totally

Amanda Lea Kaiser 41:13
right. So I have identified it fine. I’ve identified six stages of engagement, and is exactly what you’re talking about that that at each stage, there’s generally speaking, a barrier for people to take that next step into the next stage of engagement. And so to the extent that we can be aware of all of those six, six stages, and just constantly helping people have those micro wins, and in sort of taking that next step, if they want to, one, one thing that happens is you know, sometimes like, boards will get burnt out and a new member, a new face will come to an event for the first time and a board member will rush up and say, We’re so happy you’re here. Have you ever thought about being on the board and the new members panicking and saying, oh my gosh, I don’t even know who you people are yet. And so you can’t rush people up the six stages of engagement, but what you can do is make the opportunity available if they want to. So if you you know, the book is elevating engagement, and right there in the beginning, I detail all of the six stages, and each chapter is devoted to one of those stages. And I talk about the the kind of go no go decisions that members are making at every single one of those stage stages. And then I just try to give you hundreds of ideas for helping them move from one stage to the next. Again, if they want to work, we don’t rush them, we just make those opportunities all available to them. And, and yeah, I think I love I was taking notes while you were talking Brandon, because this idea of micro wins or micro engagements. I just I love that terminology. And I hadn’t thought about it or articulated it that way. So if you don’t mind, I’d like to steal that from you. Because I think it’s cool.

Brandon Burton 43:04
Yeah, just reference me twice. And then you can own it after that. So a real life example that, that I was reminded of and reading the book, you you mentioned that the board members, you know, maybe seeking a replacement for their seat during the board recruitment. So my, my wife was the volleyball Commissioner for our local youth volleyball organization. And our two youngest, well, all of our girls played volleyball through it. So we felt invested. And she was giving back to the community and doing her thing and just ended up with a lot of things on her plate. And she was completely overwhelmed. It was draining all of her energy. So she would talk to the other volleyball moms, she would say, this is wiping me out. Do you want to take it from me? Do you want to do you want to do this? And everyone kept saying, No, it was like, You need to change your approach. This doesn’t have to be a bad thing. It doesn’t have to be a negative experience. You don’t need to lie to them, but just share what it entails, share what the upsides are, and let them make a decision. But if you sell it as you know, this is so time consuming and is totally drained me. I think the example he gave in the book is a board member saying you know, I’ve I’ve been affected finite, you know, negatively financially, you know, in serving on the board. Nobody’s gonna want to take your spot, right. So you don’t want to scare people away with being over engaged, maybe? Yeah, yeah.

Amanda Lea Kaiser 44:35
And then then a staff members, we can also get a handle on that as well. You know, if, if we feel like it’s hard for volunteers to volunteer, we can look at their roles. We can look at the time commitment, we can look at dividing things up we can but just like it just like we were talking about with new members, you know, we want to take new members and give them that little nudge to help them keep progressing along their membership journey, you can do the same thing with volunteers. I love thinking about the volunteer journey as well. And, you know, start the volunteer journey with a micro volunteering opportunity and then slowly build. And I think a lot of time as a staff people, we tend to think about volunteer roles is very specific things if you’re on a board, if you’re on a committee, those are volunteer roles, but to members welcoming as a volunteer role speaking is volunteer role hosting as volunteer role, right, and, and so, so think about all of those non traditional things that we want to do to engage members like like being a chat ambassador, and have that be a volunteer role. And, and so, you know, maybe people are spending three minutes volunteering, or 10 minutes volunteering, or 30 minutes volunteering, but now you’ve just flex their muscles so that if there’s a chance to do another volunteer role, they might take you up on it. Right.

Brandon Burton 45:59
I love that. So I like asking everyone that I have on the show this question that as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, and I’ll broaden that and say, just associations in general, how do you see the future of chambers and associations going forward?

Amanda Lea Kaiser 46:17
Yeah, I see it really bright. There’s, there’s such a need, you know, when, whenever there’s a need in the community, there’s the business propositions, I think the future is really bright. And it’s just about how to engage differently. And I, from the research, I see that the answer is in the experiential side of things. And again, I think I said this a little bit earlier that I would wager to bet a lot of your chambers are offering a ton of value. And if you offer even more value, that’s great. But it might not get you to engagement, what you got to start doing is focusing on those positive experiences. And so a really quick way to think about that in this is something that you can play with you with your staff or talk to your board about or your committees about is just start saying, you know, the any, anytime somebody starts asking what do our members need, you know, what do our website visitors need? What are our attendees need? What do people need? Start laying or layering on that question, which is how do we want them to feel? And so? So when you ask, how do we want them to feel? And this is an easy thing that we that you could try even tomorrow, right? The next time you’re writing an email, think, how do I want the reader to feel and you kind of lock in that emotion in your brain that you want them to feel happy or joyful or hopeful or something like that. And when you type your message will actually totally change in quality? In in, that’s a really great experience. So just always, always keep asking, How do I want people to feel? How do I want them to feel when they come to our website? How do I want them to feel when they walk in the door of our event? How do I want them to feel when they’re advertising or hosting or sponsoring or any of those things. And that that’ll that’ll get you to the experiences part. I

Brandon Burton 48:11
love that that’s a good gauge right there just to kind of make sure that what we’re doing is the right thing and getting people to to engage and feel good and hit on those emotions that brought them there in the first place. So Amanda, I enjoyed this conversation and having you on the podcast, I wanted to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for listeners who may want to reach out and connect or share where they can find your book or anything like that, that you’d like to share with the audience feel free.

Amanda Lea Kaiser 48:42
Yeah, absolutely. So you can find me at amandaleakaiser.com. It’s Amanda, Lea, and then Kaiser like the role.com. There’s information about the book there. It’s there’s information about speaking, there’s a newsletter all about engagement that I put out once once a week that you can sign up for if you’d like or you can type elevating engagement into Amazon or any online bookseller and you’ll find my book there.

Brandon Burton 49:09
I love it. Well get that in our show notes for this episode. But like I said, this has been an engaging conversation and I hope the listeners feel so as well. And that it may prompt them to make some micro wins to put themselves out there a little bit to touch on those emotions understand why their members are there and what can you do to make them feel the way that you’d want them to feel. So Amanda, thanks again for being with us today and for sharing your your insights and for for sharing this book as well.

Amanda Lea Kaiser 49:41
Thank you so much, Brandon, this has been delightful.

Brandon Burton 49:45
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Chamber Industry Success with Anissa Starnes

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your host, Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

Let’s hear from Becky Womble, President of the Bastrop Chamber to hear about her experience with Community Matters.

Becki Womble 1:01
I’ve been using Community Matters for probably six or seven years now. And in a previous life, I sold commercial printing so I can highly recommend Community Matters because it’s a complete turnkey job for any busy chamber exec and it’s a wonderful, beautiful printed product whenever you’re finished. And I just I’m very sold on Community Matters. And with a printing background I just big endorsement from me.

Brandon Burton 1:29
To learn how Community Matters can support your chamber with your next publication. Please visit communitymattersinc.com/podcast To request your free media kit and request a proposal to find out what kind of non-dues revenue you can generate.

Learn how you can partner with Community Matters, Inc. to produce your next Chamber Directory, Community Guide or Map.

Our guests for this episode is Anissa Starnes. A lot of you may know Anissa, she is certainly no stranger to the chamber industry. She started her chamber career 32 years ago and has worked for and with Chambers of Commerce since that day. She is passionate about helping to recruit and retain strong talent for the industry and helping chambers strengthen their programs of work and revenue. You may know her as a faculty member of the US Chamber institutes for organization management, where she educates on board governance, revenue generation and all things related to chamber success. And Anissa has been retained for over 25 executive searches and has spoken in front of more than 35,000 people evangelizing on marketing storytelling and the importance of work life harmony.

Anissa, I’m excited to have you with us today on Chamber Chat Podcast, I’d love for you to take a moment to say hello to all the Chamber Champions and share something interesting about yourself so we can get to know you a little better.

Anissa Starnes 2:42
Great. Thank you, Brandon, I certainly appreciate you having me here with you and your audience today. And it’s a pleasure to be here with you. And as far as something interesting, gosh, the first thing that just popped into my mind is because I was telling the story yesterday, I actually ran a full marathon at 26.2 marathon before I ever ran a 5k. So I went big from the very beginning. I ended up doing four full marathons and then back down to half marathons and then five K’s. But I just decided to set that goal for myself and went big from the beginning. And it’s taught me a lot of life life lessons, as far as setting goals and training for them. And I’ve always said once you run a marathon, it really takes the word can’t out of your vocabulary. So it’s something I’m pretty proud of.

Brandon Burton 3:43
Yeah, so I don’t use the word can’t with it. But I’ve been a runner for probably the better part of 15 years, but I just have no desire to run a full marathon.

Anissa Starnes 3:53
I didn’t either Brandon, I really, I kind of got tricked into it for a charity fundraising. And I never loved it. It was for me all about the go and the metal at the end in the cold beer when you can celebrate but certainly never loved it either.

Brandon Burton 4:12
Yeah, done the half marathons and I’ll do that. But before I’m I just, I have no interest. So yeah, congratulations. I knew

Anissa Starnes 4:21
I did a half first I would never do the full because then you know, you have to double it.

Brandon Burton 4:26
Right. So it’s all about the mindset, right. So that’s right. Well, and so at this point, I usually will ask the guests that I have on to tell us about their chamber size staff budget. Rather than do that. How about you just give us kind of how you got to where you are now in your career and working with chambers. What does that look like? And what’s your involvement been, you know, from 32 years ago when he started to now?

Anissa Starnes 4:51
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I’ve been on staff at four different chambers all in the Carolinas. I started my career at the Charlotte you chamber where I live now and is my home, stayed there for almost 10 years and then move to chamber just a little south of Charlotte, and then to two other chambers in the Carolinas, took a break during that time and was the CEO of a nonprofit called Girls on the Run International, which is headquartered here in Charlotte, and is a self empowerment program for girls third through eighth grade. But even when I was with Girls on the Run, I was still teaching Institute and still very involved with chambers and went on to work for about eight years at Constant Contact, where I’ve probably met a lot of your listeners, through my work at constant contact in their chamber management program, and loved that. And then Constant Contact was purchased and bought out. So our division went away and went out on my own at that time and became a consultant. And so I’ve been here, there and everywhere, but always around in and around chamber work. And a year ago, a year ago, march 1, actually, I joined why GM total resource campaign, many of your listeners know Jason Eb, who’s the founder and president and CEO of YG. Em, and he and I have been friends for many years and have talked about working together. And we finally jumped off and did it a year ago. And it’s been a lot of fun. A lot of hard work. But it’s working out for us. That is fantastic.

Brandon Burton 6:35
How did you get your start your introduction to the chamber?

Anissa Starnes 6:40
Oh, gosh, everybody has one of those great stories, where we didn’t even know what a chamber was when we got there. But my sister worked for an employment agency and needed somebody to work six weeks a temporary assignment, while some one was on maternity leave. And I did not even know what a chamber was. When I got there, I was the assistant to the assistant to the president and CEO. And my job was to help plan the annual meeting. And when I say help plan, I use that loosely, my job was to get the name tags in the name tag holders basically, and but the person did not come back to work from her leave. And I was offered a job supporting the membership department. And I thought I would stay there for you know, a year or two until I decided what was next in my life. And I’ve never left. So I had a great mentor in Carroll Gray, who was my first chamber CEO, who eventually, you know, saw something in me and sent me to institute and really mentored me into the fact that it could actually be a lucrative career. And I fell in love with it, like so many people that are in the industry today. And so I’ve just, you know, kind of stuck with it.

Brandon Burton 8:00
I love that. And what a happy coincidence or placement or whatever you want to call it. I’m glad that you got placed to work on a temporary assignment. It’s made very well every day. That’s right. So as we wanted to introduce our topic for discussion today, and very loosely, we’re going to be talking about chamber industry success. And that can mean a whole lot of different things. We can take a lot of different angles to that. But just to give an idea. Some of the things that we’ll touch on in our conversation today is recruiting and retaining chamber staff being more career ready, fighting burnout, the importance of having a personal board, avoiding mission drift, and also the importance of finding the funding, if there’s two strategic partnerships to create those opportunities. And we will dive into this discussion as soon as we get back from this quick break.

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Donna Novitsky 11:04
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Brandon Burton 11:59
All right. And so we are back from our break. So we have a lot of things that we’ll touch on in this episode. And I imagine it’ll go at a pretty quick tempo. But as we start off, why don’t you touch on some of the the recruiting and retaining? What are some of those things that chamber staff should be looking for in that arena, towards having a successful chamber and just success in the industry?

Anissa Starnes 12:23
Sure, I think first and foremost is attitude. You know, I have been so blessed to have such great mentors my entire career, and more than one have shared with me, you know, look for the attitude, you can train the experience. But chamber work is not something you go to a four year school unnecessarily can learn all of the ins and outs. So looking for that right person that’s going to bring that positive attitude and that willingness to do whatever it takes every day. Because as we all know, when you get to work, no matter what your title is, you never know what’s going to happen to you that day and and what your responsibilities are going to be. So having that positive attitude is just key to success.

Brandon Burton 13:07
Absolutely. I think that is a huge factor to pay attention to as you’re looking to hire somebody but also anybody listening who’s already in their chamber role. Just pay attention to your attitude, pay attention to how you’re responding to members and, and staff and your board and volunteers to attitude. Really. They can go a long ways. absolutely can. Let’s let’s touch on being career ready. What are some things that the Chamber staff can do to be ready for their career, but also to help advance and further developing their career?

Anissa Starnes 13:42
Yeah, I think this, this would be a tip for everyone. Whether you are entry level, just getting started in a position at the Chamber, or whether you’re already a president and CEO, is to keep your resume updated. You know, so many people don’t start doing that until they’re looking for their next row. And it’s so much easier to keep it fresh and updated. Even if it’s not in a format where you can share at least keeping a ongoing list of all of your successes. We don’t often think of ourselves and share our successes so easily because we’re taught to put the volunteers out there. But we have successes as chamber staff so keeping an ongoing list. However you do that whether it’s in a spreadsheet or in a legal padding your desk, whatever works for you, but making sure that you keep up with all of your professional development, what conferences you attend, what courses you take, what sessions you lead, all of your your increase in your membership, your increasing your budget, all of your successes, just keeping a running list of it. That goes a long way in helping to build your resume, but also when you go to apply for your seat CEE through ACC II, the certified chamber exec or either your CAE through ASAE. That sounds like an awful lot of letters. But it helps keep that when you go to apply that you have that all at your fingertips to be able to track and look back at all of the things you’ve done. So that it makes it easier to not only apply for one of those certifications, but also to put it on your resume.

Brandon Burton 15:28
Yeah. So maybe you could touch on the and I love the all those tips about staying organized to have your your resume ready in at your fingertips. As far as the career readiness and advancement. Can you speak to a little bit about when a chamber professional maybe needs to look at making a change, maybe looking at another community to move to because I know you get so vested in one community, you almost feel like you’d be training them right? If you leave and go somewhere else. So help, you know through that mindset and that struggle, that internal battle that somebody may have?

Anissa Starnes 16:03
Well, I certainly and that’s a great question, Brandon, because I’ve certainly seen some people that think they’ve stayed too long, and then think they can’t make a move. And I don’t think that’s ever the case, I think you can make a move, and you know, when you’re ready to start looking at it. But also keeping in mind that you have to keep yourself and your family at the forefront of that, that everybody else is doing that your board’s going to expect you to do it. So keeping in mind with what your goals are, and knowing what your goals are. If you eventually want to lead a Metro Chamber, then you probably need to put some steps in place. You know, if you’re at a much smaller chamber, for instance, I mentioned Carol Gray, my first president CEO, he told me, you know, once I said I want to make this a career, he said you have to start planning to leave. And I didn’t really understand that at a young age. But he helped me see that I was going to have to leave a Metro Chamber, go to a much smaller chamber in order to move up. And, you know, looking at what that meant to me and what type of community I wanted to live in and my family. Just knowing what those goals are. And putting some steps into place is huge towards that. But yeah, I think everybody has to look out for yourself. And sometimes we’re not so good at that we look at look out for others first and making those moves, you kind of your gut will tell you, I’ve always been a good listener of my gut. But it tells you when it’s time to start putting some steps in a place to make that that next move.

Brandon Burton 17:44
And sometimes it’s hard for the servant leaders to think about themselves right to the next step for themselves. But this may even bring us to the next point of fighting burnout. Because I think sometimes that gut feeling is Gee, I’m really getting burned out here. In my current situation, let me see if it’s time to move tend to look on. Is that a factor to bring into it? Or how can they address the burnout issue as a chamber exec or even chamber staff? Because it seems like the clock never turns off? Right? You’re always seem to be on?

Anissa Starnes 18:15
Oh, gosh, we would need a whole week to talk about this. Because I’ve certainly lived it and been through it and have talked about it for the last couple of years. And and it’s it’s something our industry faces for sure. Every day. I wish I could remember who who I can attribute this to that shared this with me years ago, but they said, Never send an email. Never write on social when you’re upset and never quit your job when you’re having a bad day. Because tomorrow’s is likely to be a really good day. And so burnout, we’ve certainly just like every industry, we have lost a lot of good people over the last couple of years. Because since COVID, I would go out on a limb and say that chamber professionals have worked harder these last three years than ever in the history of chambers. They were called on to do things that nobody else before them had ever been called on to do and to take the brunt of, of or the responsibility rather of taking care of the business community at large in a big way. And so even before that, we saw burnout, but we certainly have seen it the last couple of years. And I would push back on the you’re always own. And I do push back on that a lot. I’m

Brandon Burton 19:33
glad to do. Yeah,

Anissa Starnes 19:35
I push back on that with with professionals all the time when I hear them say it’s a 24/7 job 365. You know, chamber folks are doing a critically important job. But it is not the end of the world. It’s not if they take a day off. I’ve heard somebody say you know we’re not curing cancer. I wish we were but we’re not. What we’re doing is very, very important work, but not as important as taking care of ourselves and putting our families first. And it’s still going to be there, whether we take a week off, or two weeks off, take a sabbatical, come back even stronger. I owe my entire career. And then I’m sitting here talking to you today, because I had a president and CEO that that saw was burnout and said, Hey, you’re gonna go take some time off, and I’m gonna pay you for it. But you’re gonna go take a few weeks off and come back stronger. And I thought he had lost his mind. Because I wanted to just keep plugging along. And I was too important to be missed. So I thought, and I really think I would have ended up quitting and going somewhere else. Had he not given me that time. And we’ve just got to take care of ourselves first. And it’s, you know, that, that analogy of putting on your own oxygen mask first, before you put your put it on your community and your members. It’s so true. But yeah, it’s, we can do our job. And chamber professionals can do their job just as effectively, if not more. So, when they take time to take care of themselves first,

Brandon Burton 21:25
right, I actually just got back from a week long cruise, and I chose to not buy the internet package. So I was forcing myself for a week to be totally disconnected. And to be honest, it was a gift to my wife for anniversary, she’s like I see all the distraction, I just need you for a week. So it was fantastic. So I would totally encourage a cruise with no internet to anybody listening. But also you lean on your staff lean on your volunteers lean on your board to help pick up some of those pieces, it doesn’t need to all be on your shoulders. And if you can, properly you know, work with them. And as a leader to work with them, you should be able to take some time off and have the confidence that your team is going to keep things going while you’re away.

Anissa Starnes 22:10
Well, I would I would add to that to Brandon that CEOs are sometimes really good at telling their staff to do it. And then they’re not doing it themselves. And staff, staff watch the leaders. And they emulate what they see. And so I would encourage not only the staff members to do it, but the CEOs themselves because it’s just critical. And we have we have some chambers now in the network that are doing a really good job of it. And COVID has helped fortunately, kind of break away from those old traditional ones. And I’ve seen a lot of chambers. What’s the word I’m looking for actually revised their entire operations manual to give more vacation days as the chambers now some going to unlimited vacation days as long as the metrics are met. So there’s some cool new things happening out there that people have modified their their employee manuals to make sure that that we’re taking care of our teams.

Brandon Burton 23:17
Yeah, I love that so important. Another important thing that I see is the importance of having a personal board of directors for yourself. Talk to us about that. What does that mean, from your perspective? And I have some thoughts as well.

Anissa Starnes 23:31
Well, it’s one of the things I learned it institute that wasn’t in a classroom setting. It happened just over, you know, dinner one night, somebody said, Do you have a personal board? And I said, What does that even mean? Yes, I have a board of directors. And they said no, who are your personal board? Who are the people you trust the most to tell you the truth. Whether you need to look in the mirror, do things differently, who are people who are going to not just tell you what you need to hear, but provide you input based on on what you need to hear not what you want to hear, doesn’t have to be a big group, it can be four or five people. It doesn’t even have to be people in your same industry. But people that you respect that you look up to that you want to emulate, and use them. It doesn’t do you any good to have them if you don’t actually use them whether that doesn’t have to be a monthly meeting, by any means. But people that you can just pick up the phone and call and say, Hey, this is what I’m facing. And I think I know what I need to do. But let me run it by you and be willing to listen to what they have to say. But I’m very, very fortunate that I have a great board of directors personally and I know that they won’t tell me just what I want to hear that they’re going to be honest and open with me and that has really helped guide me throughout my career both personally and professionally.

Brandon Burton 24:59
Yeah, know that is so good, I part of a small we call it a mastermind. So it’s our own little personal board that we can do that, you know, we can have honesty, we bounce ideas off each other say, here’s a problem I’m facing right now and be able to get some ideas where you’re thinking more than just your own thoughts, and be able to get a little more clarity on things. In fact, a while ago, I had Betty kept standing on the on the podcast, and she referred to her board as her kitchen cabinet. I loved it, you know, you’re you’re in your kitchen, oftentimes, and you’re on a zoom call with him or phone call. And it’s just that personal to her in the friendships that develop out of it are just amazing.

Anissa Starnes 25:38
So absolutely.

Brandon Burton 25:41
So let’s, let’s touch a little bit on mission drift, I think that can also play into the burnout side of things. But having that clear focus on mission, what can chambers do to avoid that, that drift from away from their mission?

Anissa Starnes 25:56
Well, you know, this, this might be an unpopular opinion, the way I’m gonna say it, but in some ways, I think COVID was one of the best things to ever happen to the chamber industry, certainly not COVID in the pandemic itself, and how it negatively affected the world. But what it did do is it gave the chamber industry a time to stop doing what we’ve always done, and look at things differently. And I’ve seen a lot of chambers change their program of work since COVID. And have stopped saying yes to everything. And chambers for so long have been the catch all of everything. And then community of, well, we need somebody to do this. Well, let’s give it to the chamber, they can do it. And the chamber has historically said yes to a lot of those things. And what I’ve seen now is chambers are have moved the other way to saying Does that fit our mission? And if the answer is no, then we’re saying no to doing it. We might support it, we might assist with it, but we’re not going to lead it. And so I think it’s critical that chambers really know what their mission is. And stick to that and let that be the the beacon that that leads them just to saying yes, or saying no, when asked to take something on and building the program of work around their mission. And there’s nothing wrong in the world with chambers doing events, and programs that, you know, they create, and that they want to be non dues, revenue generators. But everything chambers do should fit their mission. And I’m starting to see that that a lot more chambers are have been kind of open to that of you know, let’s stop saying yes all the time and making sure it makes sense for the organization.

Brandon Burton 27:58
Right, and look at some of those other C’s right, you can be that convener to bring those ideas and present them to another organization who might be better fitted better suited to take it. And you can still be a champion for that event or that whatever that initiative is, but just not the main driving champion of it. And and still be supportive. So and no doesn’t have to be a no completely, I guess, is what we’re getting at. All right. So now that the important thing that I know everybody’s hanging on to hear about is the funding, you know, creating strategic, strategic parts, I can’t speak, creating strategic sponsorship programs to be able to fund these activities that your chamber does, what are what are some thoughts and maybe some, I don’t know, a brainstorm of different ideas that chamber can explore.

Anissa Starnes 28:46
Well, one thing that that makes my partnership and me going to work with why GM, so much fun is it’s really been refreshing for me to see the change on that side of things. I started my career, as I mentioned in membership, and I was one of the first I think second, Charlotte was the second chamber to ever do a total resource campaign after Atlanta. And I went kicking and screaming to transition from a membership campaign over to a total resource campaign. And total resource campaigns TRCs for short, have changed so much over the years, thankfully, to YG Yum, who really has a strong business model. And I would say this if I was not working with YG and right now it’s why I’ve always been a fan of their work is it’s looking at sponsorships differently. We really don’t even use the word sponsorship. We use business opportunities and advertising opportunities. It’s a way to engage members that might only pay their dues every year, but otherwise never show up. Never engage. They you’d support the chamber by their membership that that’s it, and presenting the opportunities in a way that engages the member and puts them in a position to partner and to sponsor events and programs and initiatives that they really believe in. It just heightens their their awareness and heightens their public the public’s view of their company by partnering with a program initiative or any event that they believe in. So there’s a lot of money being left on the table we see with chambers, because a lot of chambers develop their sponsorships based on what they’ve always done. Like, for instance, I was on a chamber website yesterday, and I saw they had this fantastic event, it was a women’s event. But their sponsorships levels were 1000 for the top 750 502 50. And when I went back and looked at years before their sponsorship levels were the exact same. And we all know we’re paying more every day when we go to the store to the gas pump, whatever. chambers are paying more now for their catering, their signage, their venues. But they haven’t looked at what they’re charging their members to make sure that they’re not only covering their cost, but they’re making the non dues revenue they should be making on the sponsorships. So just taking a look and evaluating your sponsorship levels, making sure that the deliverables match the dollar that you’re charging. And looking at it with a fresh set of eyes is huge. There’s so much opportunity there for chambers to start with a clean, fresh sheet of paper and develop their sponsorship opportunities. And then sell them whether you do it through a trc or whether you’re doing it with a staff driven marketing, execution, whatever it is just evaluating what you’re offering, and making sure that the levels match the deliverables that you’re agreeing to give.

Brandon Burton 32:14
Absolutely. So a lot of people know that I got into chamber industry, you can say through chamber publishing. So I see, you know, I often joke about feeling like a bartender as I would go out and meet with Chamber members about advertising. And there would be a sense of guilt of you know, I joined I joined the chamber two years ago or three years ago, all I ever do is pay my dues because I can’t make it to the luncheons you know, I’m busy, I can’t make it to the after hours. I can’t do these things. But I like the chamber. Like the work they’re involved with. I like their mission, I want to support it. And they see that advertising as a way it’s an avenue to accomplish those things. It’s a way to be supportive of the chamber without being at all the things. So as you’re talking about sponsorship and business opportunities, I’m just a second witness, you can say that there are businesses out there that are ready and willing to give your organization money because they believe in what you’re doing. But they don’t see that clear path right now as to what that best avenue would be. Absolutely. Here’s a lot of opportunity. What is it? This has been great. We’re not done yet, though. So I’d like to ask if you might have a tip or an action item, for chambers that are listening who would like to take their chamber up to the next level? What would you suggest?

Anissa Starnes 33:37
This is gonna give some listeners heartburn? I’m afraid if I say it, but I’m gonna say it anyway. saying no. Saying no to being asked to serve on yet another committee saying no to taking on a new event that someone in the community thinks is a great idea. Saying no to taking on more work that doesn’t fit your mission. Say no, once you learn how is a lot easier than you think it is. And you really don’t have to give a whole lot of explanation as to why you’re saying no. But just saying no, that the timing is not right for us. Or no, we don’t think that’s in our mission. Or no, I don’t have the bandwidth to do that. Whatever that is. I get asked a lot by new execs, what is the number one thing you think I should do in my first six months as a new executive? My answer is always say no to joining every thing you’re asked to join. Because as a new CEO, or as an existing CEO, really even as as chamber staff. We get asked to participate in everything. Because we know everybody we know everything They think, and they want us on their boards, they want us in Rotary, they want us here, they’re in everywhere. And that first six months, and really even after, if your bandwidth is full, just saying, No, I can’t take that on right now, we’ll go a long way towards helping with the burnout. The first six months, first of all, should be spent getting your own house in order and learning the business of the chamber where you are, if you’re new, if you’re an existing staff member, or CEO, you know, just you want to give 110% on any board you sit on. And you really can’t do that if you’re serving eight to 10 boards, and doing a disservice, I think, to those that you do say yes to if you’re over committing. So saying no, I think is is something hard for most of us to learn. But once we do, it really can help a lot in going a long way towards helping you stay stay focused on on the task at hand.

Brandon Burton 36:08
Yeah. And I like to the simple response. He said, just No, I don’t have the bandwidth right now. Because really, you don’t owe an explanation to everybody. But you know, there’s going to be some expectation on their ends that will Why are you telling me no, and that’s a simple enough without getting into the weeds as to why it doesn’t align with your mission or whatever, just I just don’t have the bandwidth right now, that should be sufficient. So I always like asking everybody, as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward, you

Anissa Starnes 36:41
guys have seen so much change over the last couple of years that I think is a positive change. ACCE has been instrumental in leading this in the industry, but keeping chambers on track, again, with the mission, and we’ve talked a lot about that today. But I am seeing chambers take on some really audacious programming and initiatives that years ago, we wouldn’t have touched with a 10 foot pole, whether that’s, you know, workforce development, childcare issues, you know, social justice issues, I’m seeing chambers really take on the big stuff. And it is making chambers even more relevant than they’ve always been. And, you know, it’s, it’s easy to show the value to the business community of what a chamber of commerce membership can do for you, you know, years ago, we used to tell everybody, and anybody that’s listening, that’s been here, you know, in the chamber work more than 10 years has certainly probably used this, of, you know, the chamber is just like a gym membership, you have to go, and you have to show up and put on your shoes and get on the treadmill. So you have to be on a committee, you have to show up in an event. And that is not true anymore. We should never say that. chambers are working for the business community every single day, whether you show up or not. So if you do have someone that says I can’t be on a committee, I can’t come to business after hours, I can’t, you know, lead a task force. That’s okay, we’re working just as hard for you every single day. But we have to be able to tell that story of how we’re doing that, we have to wave the flag and say, This is the good stuff we’re working on. This is the success we’ve had. This is where we need your support. Because chambers are more relevant today than ever, I believe. And a lot of great work is being done in communities. And I just it’s an exciting time to be a part of the chamber community because chambers have seen it, they’ve they’ve started making those changes, they’ve stopped doing some of the events, they’ve always done just to make $2,000. They’re putting their resources, both monetary and human resources towards things that are really making an impact. So I just believe it to my soul that that chambers are making more of an impact today than ever,

Brandon Burton 39:14
while they’re doing the work that’s making the impact and the funding is available to drive it to so instead of just writing like the example you gave, of exerting all these resources to get $2,000 In return, you can be involved in much more important and meaningful work. And there’s businesses willing to support that financially to help drive it 100% agree. Yeah. Well, and so this has been great. I really appreciate you joining us here on Chamber Chat Podcast today I’d like to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for listeners who may not be connected with you already. What would be the best way for them to reach out and connect with you.

Anissa Starnes 39:53
Thank you for that opportunity. And if anybody’s listening that knows me you know I love social media. So absolutely Connect with me on Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram. But certainly my email is anissa@ygmtrc.com.

Brandon Burton 40:12
Good deal, we will get that in the show notes, both links to your social media accounts and your email. So anyone listening who’s on the treadmill or out running a marathon right now while they’re listening, they can check the show notes and they get back that and this I really do appreciate you setting aside some time and, and going through all these really powerful topics. I think that all lead to chamber industry success. So thank you for doing that and spending time with us today.

Anissa Starnes 40:40
Thank you, Brandon. And thank you for all you do for the industry. You’ve had some great podcast. I’ve always enjoyed listening and thank you for all you do.

Brandon Burton 40:50
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5 Lessons Learned in 2022

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to the Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your host, Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

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Two years ago, we brought in Holman Brothers to help our organization go to that next level. And in those two years, our team has transformed the way that we think about sponsorships and non dues revenue. And I would really encourage you if you’re looking to take your chamber to the next level to bring on the Holman Brothers.

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For this episode, I decided to do a top five lessons learned in 2022. Now as I record this, it is Christmas Eve 2022. And this episode we’ll be releasing on the Tuesday between Christmas and New Years. So purposely, I want to keep this episode a little shorter, just so you can still get some good value out of it and ideas. But I want you to be able to spend time with your family and get those things done around the house that you don’t normally have time to do because you’re your normal busy schedule. So before I get into those top five lessons learned now some of the lessons that I’ll share are ones that were directly related to podcast episodes that I’ve I’ve put out over this last year. And some are just lessons from observing the world and things going on in the environment. So keep that in mind as I go through the lessons. But before I get into those lessons, I wanted to share a personal lesson, I guess you can say that I’ve learned and that is that over, I guess almost four years now doing the podcast, I have reached a point where my time is being stretched very thin, a lot of responsibilities on my plate. And I’m at the point where I need to bring on some help somebody to help to edit and produce the podcast episodes, just to free up a little bit more of my time to where I can focus more intently on getting great guests on the podcast and other projects and special interests that I have to develop that are related to the show. So with that I’ve in you’re familiar as a chamber professional is you see a need for growth within your chamber. The next question is how do you go about providing the financial backing to justify it. And we just had a great episode last week, I believe it was last week where we had Susan Williams on. And she talked about staffing. So that episode came at a really good time for me, as I’m thinking about things that I need to do to staff up the podcast, and create a better experience for all of you as well. So continue to serve, you know, bigger and better going forward in the future. So as I was trying to figure out the best way of doing this, we do have some regular show sponsors. So I would love for you to support them and, you know, buy their product support their businesses, because that keeps their sponsorships coming to Chamber Chat Podcast. But I also, over the years have received messages and emails and ran into some of you at conferences, who have expressed the great value that that you find out of the podcast that lessons learned the way you’re able to stay and be able to stay engaged and continue to learn within the chamber space. So if you are one of those people, and you would like to find a way to support the podcast, a way to continue to see the growth of it. What I decided to do was I created a page on my website so chamberchatpodcast.com/support where you can become a sponsor yourself.

So when I created the podcast, the goal was to always have it be free. And that is still my goal to have this be a free resource, especially for those chambers that don’t have the resources to go to chamber conferences and be a part of their local or state association. I wanted to create a resource for them to be able to learn best practices and tips and strategies so they can better serve their business community. Ready. So this will always be free. What I posted on this page on my website, though the support page is different options if you would like to provide some financial support. So this suggestion, and these are just suggestions, so if you wanted to give a different amount, you can reach out and and contact me and we can set up a different structure. But just to make it easy. The suggested amounts, if you are a single listener, be $5 a month. And if you are comfortable doing that, I would appreciate that it would help to you know, if we, if we get several of you doing $5 A month that would definitely help to pay somebody to produce the podcasts for me. Hopefully, you are also sharing the podcast with your staff. So if you have different staff sizes, if you have a smaller staff, maybe two to five staff members, maybe you do $10 a month for your medium size in you know, five to 15 staff members, maybe $20 a month. And if you’re a larger staff more and there’s even a Superfan option. So if you want to check those out, see what makes the most sense for you. Maybe it comes out like as a single listener, maybe the $5 a month comes out of your personal credit card. If you’re doing it for your staff, maybe that becomes an office expense to help support and train sustain your your staff. So I’ll let you decide what what works best for you and your situation there. But with that aside, we’ll we’ll move on to the top five lessons that I’ve learned in 2022. And we’ll get into that as soon as I get back from this quick break.

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All right, we are back. So the top five lessons that I have from 2022. Again, these are these are no particular order necessarily. They’re just what stood out to me as I look back on the year. So one, the first lesson that I’ll highlight is the importance for chambers to be advocates, while also remaining as a sane center in their community. So Though we had an episode 162, Marc Cohen from the Greater Rochester Chamber was on and he talked about the role of chambers and advocacy and policy. And it was a great episode, I would highly recommend people go back and listen to that one. But also Episode 175, we had Bill Connors, on from Boise talking about being the same center at your chamber. So not being too extreme one way or the other, but really listening to what those needs are of your members. And then creating programs around that supporting candidates and policies that would enable strong business in your community. So there’s a lot of good that in those two episodes right there.

The second lesson that I wanted to highlight was the great value that comes out of collaborating and creating partnerships with others. So these may be collaborations or partnerships with other chambers. They may be another organization in your region, maybe a Convention Visitors Bureau, maybe an economic development, maybe your city itself. But what really came to mind is like created the CIO, or came up with this lesson learned. It was from a reflection, as I look back on some of the chamber, the year finalist interviews that I did this year. And a couple of those chambers, partnered with local banks through the COVID pandemic to help get funding to their members. And as we know, funding was extremely important at that time. And that was a very good strategic partnership for those chambers that took advantage of that. So keep your eyes open, keep them peeled for opportunities to create collaborations or partnerships that make sense to benefit your members.

The third lesson from 2022 that I wanted to highlight was actually an episode all in itself. So it was episode 188, with Jordan Clemons from Greater Louisville Inc. And he talked all about LinkedIn, for growing your chamber membership. And he has a great strategy. If you haven’t heard that episode, I would encourage you to listen or at least have your your membership staff listen to it, as he has a whole strategy of how he uses LinkedIn specifically, to put posts out that really highlight your community and drives a lot of engagement. And then he’s able to see who engages with those posts, learn more about them through their LinkedIn profile, and then reach out to them and create a dialogue that’s already a warm conversation because they’ve already interacted with his post. And by utilizing the strategy, he’s exceeded his sales goals year after year, and really done a great job for GLI. So getting that was episode 188. If you’d like to go back and listen to that one again.

The fourth lesson that I wanted to highlight was the importance of leaning into digital to create relevant and personal communication channels, or strategies. And we had a great, great episode with Sara Ray, and Episode 166, where she talked about just this, about creating relevant personalized communications, specifically through email. So when you look at your email response rate, your email engagement, you’re probably not as satisfied as you’d like to be, if you’re like any other chamber, but by creating relevant content. So as you look at what, why did this member join your chamber? What are they expecting? What are their expectations? What are they looking for what needs do they have to support their business. And then if you can customize your communication to these members based on their needs and desires, that will put your engagement through the roof, both on the digital front with email engagements or social posts, but also for having people show up to events that are relevant to them. That way, they’re not just tone, you know, tuning out everything that comes from the chamber because so much of it’s not relevant to them. Now they’re only getting things that are relevant to them so they pay more attention and engage at a much higher level.

The fifth lesson fifth and final lesson that I will highlight from 2022 is really a personal observation as I look at business environments, economy trends, I see a future where chambers Of Commerce can really benefit by embracing cryptocurrency and NFTs. So for those of you who may not be familiar, NFT stands for non fungible token, meaning there can only be one of that token. So think of it as maybe a coin or an image or some kind of a digital asset that has kind of like a stamp on it that says this is a one of one one of a kind token. And with that NFT’s initially kind of rolled out as expensive JPEGs. So, people would put out these digital images of cats or, you know, different cartoon type characters, and they would sell them for ridiculous amounts of money. It made zero sense to me, I can’t understand why anybody got behind that. But as I learned more about it, and heard about people creating NFT projects, they really focused on the community building aspect of NFT projects. And then my ears perked up. And I had somewhat of an aha moment. Right that anytime I hear the word community, I think Chambers of Commerce need to be involved. So when you look at building an NFT project, creating a community around it, how can a chamber of commerce utilize this? So here’s an example. I recently came out with a chamber podcasting guide to teach chambers how to create a podcast. About the same time I was creating that, that course that chamber podcasting course, I was learning more about NFT’s. And I thought, I wish the technology was developed enough that I could release this course as an NFT. So in other words, if I had access, I launched this course and I have 10 tokens, let’s say that are NFT’s non fungible tokens to access this course, then I can sell them to chambers, as a chamber takes a course learns how to podcast, then they don’t need the course anymore, because they know the material that’s in there, they could then turn around and resell that NFT to another chamber, who can then learn to podcast and that first chamber can get, you know, some or all or more of their investment back of what they initially paid. And within that NFT there are smart contracts that are involved. So within the smart contract, I could write in there a commission. So every time that NFT is resold, or every time that course is resold, I could get a 10% commission, let’s say, based on whatever the sale price was. So think about how would that apply to your chamber? Do you have programs? Do you have courses? Do you have tutorials, do you have different resources, that could be packaged as an NFT, that would allow for your members to market your product and services that would allow them to regain maybe their initial investment in that in that token, and continue to promote that to other businesses in your community. So that is a thought that I had had. But as I continue to think of chambers of commerce utilizing NFT’s many of you already have a tiered dues membership platform. So maybe you look at offering membership as NFTs. So if you have a different NFT for each level of your membership, and you have a certain number of NFT’s for each level, as a chamber member maybe levels up to a higher level of membership, they can sell their initial membership to another member and become an advocate for bringing other businesses into the chamber.

If a chamber were to move out of the community, they don’t have to just lose their chamber benefits but they could resell their membership to another business, there could be a whole other resale market. And with that, you can have the smart contract involved where you’re making revenue off of that every time that membership is resold. But my thought with this is you end up having your members become advocates who are out there are ambassadors we can say that are out there really promoting the value they get from the chamber especially as they go to resell their NFTs and level up their membership. So I don’t know that the technology is ready For Chamber’s to jump right into the NFT space, but something to keep in mind is as we look to the future, look to the kids look to the youth who are playing video games. They’re playing games like Minecraft, and Roblox and fortnight, you know, games like that you and I may look at them as games. I don’t play them. I don’t know much about them. My kids play them. And what I do know is that lots of commerce is being done within these meta verses. So dropped a couple of words there. So commerce when I hear commerce, I think Chamber of Commerce, how should a chamber be involved? There’s commerce happening in these digital platforms. And it is these games are levels of Metaverse where they’re buying and selling digital goods, whether it’s a skin or clothes, or a gun, or some sort of a weapon or a horse or whatever these things are they’re buying and selling and trading. Commerce is happening in the digital landscape. How can your chamber be involved? So have that in your mind? Because we hear these promises of the metaverse coming, which would be kind of an all inclusive digital landscape. I I don’t know I have some reservations about a full full blown metaverse. But there are definitely Metaverse landscapes that are out there. So pay attention to those see if there’s any way that makes sense for your chamber to be involved, especially as these youth aged up into the working class, the the the people that are being employed in your communities, what can your chamber do to be involved in that space? So with that, it may come back to NFT’s as NFTs even in these games. There can be NFT’s that are bought and sold that are a hat or some kind of a article of clothing that is an NFT but it can be utilized within the metaverse. So there’s a ton of opportunity here. So I guess moral of the story with this lesson number five of the future of chambers, embracing crypto and NFTs is learn about it. Be ready as the shift comes to your chamber can stay relevant. That is the biggest advice that I can give you right there. But with that, that summarizes the top five lessons that I have to share with you from 2022.

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Staffing with Susan Williams

Below is an auto-generated transcription of my conversation with Susan Williams. Because this is auto-generated there are likely some grammatical errors but it is still a useful tool to search text within this podcast episode.

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Our title sponsor is Holman Brothers Membership Sales Solutions. Let’s hear from Diane Rogers, President and CEO of the Rancho Cordova Area Chamber to learn how the Holman Brothers have provided value for her.

Diann Rogers 0:39
As a medium sized chamber, we recognize that it’s absolutely critical to have a well qualified and well trained membership development person. Holman Brothers trained that person, recruited that person then they even trained me on how to manage that person. We’re grateful for the support we got.

Brandon Burton 0:54
You can learn more about Holman Brothers Membership Sales Solutions by visiting holmanbros.com.

Our guest for this episode is Susan Williams, Susan has served as the president and CEO of the Venango Area Chamber of Commerce in Pennsylvania since 2007. Following 21 years in a banking support position. Her volunteer work led her to seek a job where she could impact the community through leadership, business and relationship building. She shares that her leadership journey continues, especially as she strives to engage others, in many of the programs that the Naga chamber has in recent years, much of that focus has been on education, young professional development and business advocacy. So it isn’t I’m excited to have you with us today on Chamber Chat Podcast, I’d love for you to take a moment to say hello to all the Chamber Champions listening and to share something interesting about yourself so you can get to know you a little better.

Susan Williams 1:50
Thank you. It’s such a pleasure to be here. And anyone that knows me knows that I love being with my chamber people, I have really relied on a strong network to get me to the position I’m in where I’m very happy in a growing chamber. And so it’s it’s really a pleasure to be here. So I think one of the interesting things about me is that I’ve been fortunate enough to have really wonderful, you know, areas to work in my 22 years in banking, were a pleasure. And I often was told you’ll you’ll never find a job that you’re as happy. And that affords you as much opportunity to do what you love. And I don’t know that I thought that but I definitely got there. I knew the moment I arrived in a seat at the chamber that that it was where I belonged. And that was 18 years ago. So and that experience with both the bank and the Chamber has led me to be able to do really fun things in the rest of my life. So

Brandon Burton 2:49
very good. Now, I’m glad you found the right fit, you found that chair that’s nice and comfortable in that position that fits your personality and your your character traits. Well, so Well tell us a little bit about the Venango chamber area Chamber just to give us an idea of you know, size scope of work staff, as we’ll be discussing today, budget, things like that, just to kind of give us a perspective. Well, like many

Susan Williams 3:16
small world chambers, we were a City Chamber, we were formed in 1912. So we’re well over 100 years old. But we went through a merger in 2008. To become a Regional Chamber, we had leadership that believed that as they looked across our membership, we served a greater area. So that gave us a really great opportunity to grow. And we have done that since 2002 1005 was when that merger was completed with a small business organization. So we are about 450 members, but we are growing and growing as much. And in attracting the right members as growing in numbers. Our budget is around $250,000 a year. And our staff size is at full tilt six. We in fact last summer we had seven but we take every opportunity we can to engage summer interns. So that often gives us a chance to add some capacity during some of our busier times.

Brandon Burton 4:18
Very good now that that helps for sure. And I’m excited to to get into our topic for today. As I mentioned before, we’ll be talking about staffing. And as we look across the chamber spectrum, you know, there’s chambers of all sizes, whether they’re a volunteer only organization, or maybe they have a part time leadership or maybe one staff or two or three versus you know, some that have, you know, 30 or 50 staff and some of these huge chambers. But I think having a focus discussion on staffing is helpful for any level chamber just to kind of get some of those ideas around. You know what to look for what develops a good team what develops a good I’ll say culture even amongst your your office and your staff. So we’ll dive into that discussion around staffing as soon as they get back from this quick break.

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All right, Susan, we’re back. As I mentioned before the break, we’re we’re talking about staffing today. So I’d love for you to maybe just tell a little bit about your story there at the Chamber start where you want to start as far as you know what, what stands out to you with, you know, those important things and you look at staff in your chamber, right what I

Susan Williams 7:37
think of my approach to staffing, it’s important to start at the beginning when I was hired by a gentleman who was a mentor. He was my eighth grade geography geometry teacher. And years later, we’ve gotten involved as community volunteers. So when I had a break in my employment from my banking career, and talked to him about where I might land, he suggested that the Chamber might be the place but there wasn’t an open position. Well, as luck would have it, about a year later, there was an opening at the chamber. And I approached him and said, Is this something that where I might be a fit for an administrative assistant, and a very quick conversation led us to believe that it might not be right at that time. But that evening, I got a call from his staff. These were young women who were part time employees. And they said, We saw you come in, we’d like to interview you for the position here at the chamber. And that was my first introduction to really involving the people right, right on the ground, the staff in that process of interviewing, of course, Ron had welcomed them and doing so. And while I said, Well, I’m not sure if you’ve, if I was a great fit, they said, we definitely want you to come in. And again, once I got in there, I knew I was at the right place. So the full time staff was just me and the executive director at the time. But I had the opportunity to work with these young women who I’ve watched him develop and take their best skills and use them to accomplish things in the community and for the chamber, and really show me in the next two years, how to do that. He had a heart for young people. So while a lot of times I see people in all industries, look for staff that can kind of prove what they can do. He taught me how to look for people’s strengths and build on those. So that that was my first step into really hiring myself and developing a staff that would serve our community in our chamber.

Brandon Burton 9:43
Yeah, I love I love that that origin story. I like hearing how people find their way into the chamber industry. And one of the things he said it’s kind of stood out to me is how he taught you how to look for those strengths, those things that you need at your organization and and hire for those strengths. I know a lot of times as you’re looking to fill a position at your organization, you, you probably get people applying that aren’t really sure what the chamber does. Yeah, it’s a lot.

Susan Williams 10:15
Yeah, well, and to be perfectly honest, I didn’t know what the chamber did. Yeah. In my, in a position I served briefly before coming to the chamber, I watched that organization join the chamber, went to a chamber mixer. So I got a little tiny taste of what that was like. But there’s so much to learn. And I think, as we’re hiring staff at the Chamber, we need to be ready to really, you know, take the opportunity to teach people even that have lived in the community for a long, long time about how to approach the community in a different way. We have an employee now that’s just been here over a month. And she’s she’s very well connected in the community. But she’s astonished at what she didn’t know, our favorite things to teach people is, is to introduce them to people they don’t know and teach them about things in the community that they might not be familiar with.

Brandon Burton 11:08
Yeah, I love that. So as you look to hire for strengths, those needs, I’ll say, your organization, how do you go go about the onboarding of helping maybe it’s in the interview process, maybe it’s once they’re hired, that you really give them a deep dive on, here’s the type of work that we’re involved with here at the chamber?

Susan Williams 11:28
Well, maybe starting with the fact that we really have taken a very different approach. Now, first of all, I really love the internship model. So we’ve been fortunate enough to be able to have at least one intern every summer since I’ve been here at the chamber. And several of those interns have gone on to come to work for us after graduation. None of them expected that to happen. When they enter on their first year, too. It was just a summer job. But in allowing them to grow and learn the community and really give them an opportunity to shine. Most of our interns are excited about an opportunity to come work here if if you know it, if it feels itself. Yes, yes. So that has been a strategy that we’ve really liked. But also, you know, I’ve had a couple times in my 18 years where a position opened up. And so we actually had to invite resumes and applications and had to go through the traditional process. But we learned as we watch the rest of the community, and got to meet people who are looking for changes, that a better strategy was to watch for the right people, and then see if you can create a position. And that’s where we’ve really had some success. And the first time I couldn’t imagine how that could happen. Because we all go right to our budgets, say well, if we could hire more people, we would we just don’t have the money. But I have found that when I find the right people, I can find the money. Finding the right people has given me the opportunity to go and talk to stakeholders, including my board of directors, and tell them what we could do if we had the right people. So in it, my first and most successful case of that we had an opportunity to to get some grant money to to get something to happen. It’s and I can give you a little bit more information for the listeners that want to dig in. It’s a program I’m really proud of called be here. venango.org. But when we saw that we had the right person, then we could go to the grantor and say, We know you have something you want done in the community. We didn’t know we could do it before now we can we have the right person, and we can make this happen will you give us a chance. And since then, we’ve gone on to do that with at least a couple of other areas that our chamber serves in.

Brandon Burton 14:01
I love that idea of looking for the right people and then creating the position. And I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard somebody who’s the president CEO now at their chamber that when they came into the chamber work, that there wasn’t a position at the time that a position was created for them because the strengths and the skills are recognized and the love for the community or connections or whatever it may be. They were the right person so position was created and then you know a careers developed. I was going to ask you, when do you how do you judge when it’s time to bring on you know, a new staff member? What are those things you consider and you kind of answered it with that last question was looking for the right people in creating the position but I know sometimes that happens from the the other side as well. So

Susan Williams 14:52
there are any number of different things that can happen with the be here position. That program manager was hired around the opportunity for money. Now I do not normally let money drive my decisions. So it was it was something that I had known for a long time that a good partner and a community wanted to get done. It just happened to have money with it. So I don’t generally look for money first. But if I can know who’s out there in the community, then as those opportunities for programs we want to develop or openings come that that’s when we say, Oh, who do we have our eyes on. And that’s happened very successfully with our last two openings. So the last catalyst for growing our staff was the pandemic. So during the COVID pandemic, we had managed to stay afloat and actually thrive. So I did do a layoff of my full time employees, but only a small layoff. And during that time, we strategized very carefully and a few hours a week, how we could continue to serve our members that worked so well, that as we came back, we realized we couldn’t continue that pace full time without more help. And of course, we also had some changes in how people wanted to work, we still come to the office, but there’s more need for flexibility for we had growing families and things like that. So as we look to start to make sure that the employees we had had everything they needed, which is should be another part of our conversation, we also knew that we needed to add more staff. And my staff quickly told me who I needed to hire. And they knew who had stepped into our path who was showing up and everything we would do, who really understood our mission. And I said she’s not going to work for us. Great job. And they said, We think you should check. And so an afternoon walk within the next couple of days revealed that we had someone that wanted to come to work for us was a perfect fit. And then it was just a matter of, you know, working with my board and re examining my budget and, and seeing that we had room for for our, you know, our last person.

Brandon Burton 17:04
So that leads into the next question I was going to ask is, as you find the right person, typically the right person, because they have great skill set or connections or whatever it may be. But typically, that means that they already have a job. So how do you go about attracting them, convincing them that the chamber is really the place they need to be? And if you’re doing that, and taking them from a member business, how do you work that that exchange that transition, it’s really

Susan Williams 17:35
hard in a small community not to take someone from a member. But that is, that’s the advantage of the intern hiring, hiring your own employee. But you know, our, our best way to bring someone from somewhere else, when we are I think most of it admittedly not paying as well as we’d like to, is to make sure that you have a culture that’s attractive. So that’s always been our draw. I believe in lifelong learning for myself and for my staff. So it’s been really important for us to communicate to everyone in our membership, that we want an opportunity to grow our staff to grow them here, to help them take those strengths that they they want to do more of take the things they don’t like to do and do less of when possible. And all the while preparing them for the job they want to have at the chamber or somewhere else. So we have had a couple of move on from us over the years. But they’re often the ones crying as they tell me that they’re going to something that they know they need to do. And I’m smiling because I know that was the plan all along, that we want to develop good people to do what they what they want to do what they need to do what’s best for them. And when possible, we tell them, hey, we’ll bring you back. And if it doesn’t work out, you know, we will do everything we can to welcome anyone back.

Brandon Burton 18:58
Yeah, you’re leading this discussion, right where I want to go, that was my next thing. So we often will bring on staff, they get developed, they’re a great part of the team. And then usually it’s one of your Chamber members that see what a great asset this staff member is. And whether it’s a skill set and sales or community development, whatever it may be, but they they reach out and and track them and bring them on to their business. And and you’re right, you know, internally you’re excited for this for your staff member who’s going to move on develop new skill sets and continue on in their career. But I can I also see chambers where the turnover is it seems to be constant. You know, every year they’ve got new staff, a new team. So it’s constantly training and getting new people up to speed and I guess I’m not really sure what the question is here that I’m trying to add. I see

Susan Williams 19:52
that as well. So I think you have to examine why are you having that turnover? So if you’re having the turnover really frequently? Are you really developing people that well that they’re moving on to a better position? Or perhaps is there something you’re missing about what they’re looking for? Because I don’t think I’ve had anyone move on for the money. Right? You know, so people don’t tend to leave jobs to make more money. Occasionally they do. But But you, and I always invite them to have that conversation. So we can examine that. But it’s usually something that just has them not quite satisfied in the job. So we work very carefully to be having those conversations all the time to make sure that our culture is good to make sure that they have what they need. So most of our employees have stayed quite quite a while. So we don’t have much turnover. So I would really want to examine that if I’ve got people leaving frequently to make sure that there isn’t something that you need adjusted.

Brandon Burton 20:56
Yeah, that’s a that’s good to take that that check inside and just know, look at the culture, see, what are the real reasons versus the stated reasons why people are leaving, and see if you can do something to help keep them there a little longer? Or maybe you are just fantastic at building and developing the talents and they are able to move on and continue growing and and maybe they’ve outgrown their position at the chamber. So in and even at that, I would say there’s there may be opportunities. If somebody is developing those skills and outgrowing their current position, what can you do to keep them at your organization develop new responsibilities, or new positions or titles or whatever it may be to help them continue to progress within their career. Have you had any any experience with that with you know, as you see somebody developing to a certain point is being able to create those opportunities within your team

Susan Williams 21:57
that they might leave? Yeah. Well, when I think about it, but because most of ours have left, because there’s something quite different there, they’re going to do, they’re looking for a different experience. So it’s, it’s probably been more of that for us, our last employee that left we’re really excited about she had started her own business. So she had done that while at the Chamber, we were really excited to watch her grow there. And it became evident that that’s where her attention needed to be, she needed to be fully immersed in her own business. So she’s a chamber member. So that’s great, we zero all the time she’s close by. So I think if your turnover is a lot, you would want to be looking at making those changes. For us, we consider it we have an exit interview, we talked to our staff, about what what they liked, and what they didn’t like, what they’re excited about that they’re going to. But I think you have to get comfortable with the fact that that some of that change comes I mean, after 18 years, I’m starting to have the conversation in my community about what things look like, at some point when I go ahead and move on. And people get really anxious about that. But but the reality is part of that moving on allows room for someone else to to develop, there’s there will always be things, things to do, there’s room for all of us. But certain positions you do, you do need to make room for others to

Brandon Burton 23:21
run if you can have that discussion far enough ahead of time, and you can help develop the successor and be able to have a smooth transition, there’s so much value to that for the organization for the members, for you, you know at the exiting CEO to be able to have that peace of mind that you’re leaving it in good hands.

Susan Williams 23:39
And speaking of that, you know, there’s the idea of the successor within those positions being opened up. So we’re believers on great onboarding, too. So that’s a really important part of bringing people on. And getting them as part of your team and keeping them we’ve we have some members, even in manufacturing that are just doing phenomenal things on onboarding. And so we’ve taken some note from them, but we’ve developed some things for ourself over time. So we see that as a as a long process. So we we work together as a team, everybody takes pieces of it. And we onboard, you know, over a week over a month over a year. So that you know that we definitely have a cycle like most chambers, we have a cycle of activities that happen. So you live through your first festival, your first annual dinner, all of those things and then you have you know, you have the things that change one from year to year. Like like a pandemic. But I think the onboarding is really, really important and something that you should be thinking about if you’ve got employees that aren’t quite settled in or are are leaving you sooner than you thought you might not be bringing them on as strong as you could.

Brandon Burton 24:49
Right. So maybe let’s circle back for a minute on the your internship program. So are you working with the school district are you work how are you of attracting you’re the intern, typically one per year,

Susan Williams 25:05
typically, one we’ve had a few years where there was the some nice funding to help us weep, we have always in all of my 18 years here, we’ve been able to find a funding partner. So whether that’s our state program at a percentage or some of our career services, because they believe in that have most recently been almost fully funding, that a reimbursement of our intern, so we are always out there making sure that we have that. And some cases, again, we’ve been able to have more than one. For the summer term, we have always been able to identify a network from or we have always been able to identify an intern from our network. So because we have a long history of having interns, more often than not, they come to us and ask for an internship. And it’s often you know, the child of one of our members, or if we’ve, if we’ve needed to go looking, we go to our schools, we have a great relationship with our schools, we have some contacts, we trust a lot. And we always give them a little bit of an idea of the strengths we’re looking for. So we’re usually looking for someone that’s either in business, communications, hospitality, kind of things that align with with what we do, yeah. But we’re also looking for a great personality, that is a problem solver that’s not afraid to pick up the phone and asked for something. So having a really good vision of what the intern looks like, and what kind of experience they’ll have is a is a great start. And typically, our interns aren’t really, really concerned about what that we paid, we’ve been able to do, you know, a fair wage, you know, above minimum wage, but that’s usually not their question. They’re usually looking for an experience. We have not had interns that use their internship for their credits. So I know, in you know, some schools give them that opportunity, we always ask them if it’s something they need, if it’s something that we can help them with. But they’ve all come here for the just the experience of working in a community organization with a good reputation. And we tell them, you know, the benefit is they’ll leave with more context than they could imagine.

Brandon Burton 27:17
Right? So it sounds like you actively look for an intern like sometimes they they show up and the right person is there. But have you seen a change at all over the last 18 years? He talked about having somebody willing to pick up the phone and be social be personable? Has there been a change with these, you know, young people getting ready to enter the workforce? Has there been a shift? And how do you focus on training them? Are you just looking for the right person that already has that skill set?

Susan Williams 27:47
Yeah, well, there’s a change year to year, because just because of different personalities, we’ve had some very outgoing interns and some very quiet ones. In our case, they’ve all been young women, we would welcome a man in our office, they just haven’t come and ask for the opportunity. We have, of course, lots of volunteers. And we have a very, very active young, professional group. So a lot of young men that we interact with there. But the personalities of the young women are different, but our expectations are the same. So again, that kind of onboarding and orientation helps them understand what the expectations are. So even our more introverted interns, the ones that maybe find it a little more uncomfortable to pick up the phone or do some of those things. We prepare them we model the behavior. We help them with some tactics that make it more comfortable, you know, start with a when we know who they can call that will say yes and no, start there. Don’t throw them right into the, you know, into the lions pit and good luck. You know, we really try to set them up to be successful very quickly, like we do all employees so that they’re, you know, they’re they’re ready when the tough days come we can we can manage through those. Right there always are.

Brandon Burton 29:01
I like that I like setting them up with the wind helped build that confidence early on, because really, a summer goes by quickly. So you got to kind of front load those winds get get that confidence. And then But then no. Yeah.

Susan Williams 29:14
And we have had the good fortune many times to have interns that we’ve identified in advance enough that we can bring them into the office over the holiday season for even a week or two. And that gives us a chance to familiarize them with just our the layout of the office. Some of our systems are you know how to use the copier how to use the phones. So our summer intern is here now she just arrived in the last couple of days and she’ll work with us over the holidays to take us into the end of the year and and get us kicked off. You know we can is one of the things we’ll have her do early in the year is just update those kinds of documents that we use year to year and they just need new dates and things like that. But we try to give them things to do that are also really interesting and fun and challenging. Yeah, then invite them to give us input every day on what we’re doing.

Brandon Burton 30:03
I like that. And that’s a great tip to bring them in during, you know, that holiday, that winter break that they have from school and help get them familiar with the, with the office and some of the procedures and just kind of the layout. So When summer comes, you’re kind of speeding up that process.

Susan Williams 30:19
And the cost is nominal, you know, it’s, it’s really, you know, you can bring them in for a few hours a day or a few days a week. So it’s a really nice, nice time to bring them in. I shouldn’t say too, that one of the great advantages of our interns over the year is years is they have also been a really good connection to our young professionals. So we have a very active young professionals group, who also have been a feeder to some of our, our employees here. Some of them were active with their young professionals, some weren’t, but they knew of the active young professionals. So it gave them an opportunity to know and understand what the culture of the organization was like. But our interns are often that connection, because I was 18 years ago. But gradually I realized that Well, I love going into their things and grabbing their energy. It’s sometimes better to have one of our younger staff members actually doing the routine correspondence.

Brandon Burton 31:13
Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. So that’s a good point. As we start to wrap up, I wanted to ask you, if you might have any tip or action item for listeners who are looking to take their chamber up to the next level, what would you suggest for them?

Susan Williams 31:29
Well, if you’re looking particularly to grow your staff, or or maybe if not grow in numbers, strengthen your staff, I think it’s all about having good conversations and continuing to learn. The culture of work has certainly changed in the 40 years that I’ve been working. But people don’t change that much. We all want the same things. We all really value, being safe and having time with our families and feeling like we’re part of the community, just how those things change how how those things change is different over the years. So make time in every day to talk with the staff that you have to talk with your board and talk to your community about the kind of place you want to work and the kind of place you want others to work with you. And I think if you start there, you’re you’re bound to find people that have things in common with you. And you can set common goals and take your chamber wherever it’s meant to go. But you should do that as a team. So build your team with you know, starting with a really great conversation

Brandon Burton 32:34
like that. Thank you. So I like asking this question everyone that I have on the show, and you probably know it’s coming. But as we look to the future, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Susan Williams 32:47
Well, I think the opportunities are great. There are there are so many different people doing so many different things in the community that we sometimes think we’re saturated, but I think as chambers, we know we’re not that the chambers play an important role in connecting all of those other things. So in your community, who can you connect with one another, that need is never going to go away? So make yourself valuable as the best connector there is in the community? And I don’t think there’s any chance that communities will think be a thing of the past, I think we can be really excited about the future of chambers.

Brandon Burton 33:27
Yeah, I like that. And I like to think of the constant, you know, evolution of what community means to so how are you making those connections and an ever changing definition of community?

Susan Williams 33:39
Oh, it does. You know, certainly, again, that having been a small city chamber and now Regional Chamber, we’ve seen that. But over the last couple of years, you know, I see myself in Zoom Zooms and calls with people from all over the world. And we have so much in common and we we care about the same thing. So I think your opportunity to grow your chamber in thought leadership is just, it’s limitless.

Brandon Burton 34:05
Absolutely. So, Susan, I’d like to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for listeners who might want to reach out and connect with you and learn more about how you work through interns or staffing in general, what would be the best way for for someone to reach out and connect with you?

Susan Williams 34:22
Well, anyone’s welcome to call me here at the office at 814-676-8521. to email me at s Williams at Venango chamber.org. I’m going to spell Vinay NGO, v n a n g o and we have a great website that complements our website that is be here for the ngo.org BE He REVN a ngo.org and I think everyone would enjoy taking a look With that, and seeing how we’re inviting people to really enjoy their experience here in our community,

Brandon Burton 35:05
I love that and and, you know, I’m tempted to go down the rabbit hole of tell us more about what be here if an NGO is that let’s just let people go check it out themselves and see, see what it’s all about

Susan Williams 35:17
might be a good reason for another episode someday.

Brandon Burton 35:20
That’s right. And well, we’ll have your your contact information in the show notes for this episode as well. So people can go on there and hit those links or shoot us an email and give me a call. But, Susan, I really appreciate you being with us today on Chamber Chat Podcast for sharing your experience and, and specifically around staffing. And I think you shared some some neat insights. And for some of those chambers that maybe you’re feeling a little bit alone, because they’re a staff of one or maybe staff of two, this might give them some encouragement to be able to reach out, explore some new opportunities and find the right person and then create the position. So I love that takeaway. So thank you for that.

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Grow & Protect with Frank Mulcahy & Ernesto Verdugo

Below is an auto-generated transcription of my conversation with Frank and Ernesto. Because this is auto-generated there are likely some grammatical errors but it is still a useful tool to search text within this podcast episode.

Feel free to join our Chamber Chat Champions Facebook Group to discuss this episode and to share your own experiences and tips with other Chamber Champions.

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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Voiceover Talent 0:14
Now your host hangs blankets in his studio to reduce the echo, he’s my dad, Brandon Burton.

Brandon Burton 0:23
Hello Chamber Champions. Welcome to the Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your host Brandon Burton, and it’s my goal to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

Our title sponsor is Holman Brothers Membership Sales Solutions. Let’s hear from Tony Felker, President and CEO of the Frisco Chamber to learn how the Holman Brothers have provided value for him.

Tony Felker 0:45
One of the key benefits that we’ve realized from Holman Brothers it’s actually happened many years after we started using them. We just completed our new strategic plan and understanding those subtle differences between transactional benefits and transformational benefits. The companies that knew what they expect has been a key part in our strategic plan. And we really want to thank Holman Brothers for that.

Brandon Burton 1:07
You can learn more about Holman Brothers Membership Sales Solutions by visiting holmanbros.com.

For this episode, we have a two-for. We’ve got two great guests for the price of one. So we’ve got Frank Mulcahy and Ernesto Verdugo. Ernesto and Frank are both Change Catalyst through their thought leadership and effective public speaking that leads to results. Ernesto is the 240/7 most traveled person in the universe. They worked for Renaissance cruises and KLM Royal Dutch Airlines before becoming a full time speaker and trainer. He’s worked with people from over 120 nationalities and 57 countries. He’s a little league baseball coach, a private pilot, and a master juggler. He lives with his wife and two kids in The Woodlands Texas.

Frank has developed a series of workshops over the past 38 years exposing the devastating impact of data breaches and identity theft, Frank’s immersion and identity theft prevention and red flag training began in his mortgage banking career is has he’s honed his mastery in all facets of identity theft in the workplace and online, as he has spoken to and trained over 835,000 individuals from the stage webinars and in workplaces against the ongoing threats of identity theft and misusing social media. As I have them with us today, we’re going to be talking about a new app that they’ve come out with called grow and protect. But Frank and Ernesto, I’m excited to have you with me today here on chamber chat podcast and like to give you both an opportunity to say hello to all the chamber champions that are out there listening and share something interesting about yourself so we can get to know you a little bit better, Franklin, start with you. Very good.

Frank Mulcahy 3:03
Thank you, Brandon. It’s a pleasure to be here today. And most importantly, it’s a pleasure to continue serving Chambers of Commerce because I believe that as an entrepreneur over the last almost 48 years, the chambers have probably been most instrumental to my growth. And I followed them from very, very small chambers all the way up to chamber galas. And it was as a result of my just everything that chambers gave to me that when we decided would grow and protect, it was time to get back to the chambers. And that’s what we’re going to share with the folks today is that we’re all in this together as one big happy family. And we’re all here to serve the small to medium sized business entrepreneur, on how they can grow and how they can protect their businesses in these chaotic times.

Brandon Burton 3:54
Very good Ernesto.

Ernesto Verdugo 3:56
Yeah, well, thank you, Brandon, for having us here. Your your introduction was very nice, very kind, very accurate. And all the stuff that you were saying one of the things that was not mentioned is that I am also the Vice President of Marketing of the US Mexico Chamber of Commerce. And it’s a little bit different than the other chambers of commerce that are around which are a little bit more local. This one is a by national Chamber of Commerce. And of course, I am delighted to be with your audience because we have a ton of stuff that we can help them with. So we will start we will start with our with our story. Basically everything started with the thoughts of my 13 year old daughter that basically taught me how to become a YouTuber. And then afterwards we started using YouTube as a tool of growth and we will tell you a little bit more on that story, but it is I am there I am delighted to be here.

Brandon Burton 5:00
That’s great. We can learn a lot from our children, can’t we? And oh my goodness, either directly or just seeing trends that are coming and how they’re interacting with technology. So what

Frank Mulcahy 5:11
what we, what, what we call that Brandon is actually reverse mentoring. Yes, we mentor them, they mentor us, and then we all collaborate and go forward.

Brandon Burton 5:21
That’s right. I love that. So tell us just a little bit about what your company grow and protect the app. What, what is it? And how long have you guys been doing this. And we’ll we’ll get much deeper into it. But let’s just give it an overview, just to kind of give some perspective as to why we’re having you guys on the show today to talk about this.

Frank Mulcahy 5:44
So grow, Grow and Protect is a chamber of resource library, Brandon, that we felt was necessary with the chaotic times that we were going into, and we’re going to talk in a little bit about how we started it way back in February of 2020. Before the lockdown, we knew times were going to change, what we didn’t realize is how devastating times would change. And so, Ernesto and I, we pivoted very quickly, we didn’t miss a beat. But we noticed that everybody else was falling behind. So the grown protect is meant to be a chamber resource library to actually put commerce back in Chamber of Commerce, to actually help the small business entrepreneur, to expand their business outside their local town, city, state, county, or even country by using the technology that Ernesto and I have been very, very blessed to have harnessed. And it was time to put it together in one spot with one module where apps where they can have it with them 24 By seven on all the devices and all this stuff, and everybody could grow, even the people that have technically challenged. Brandon, that’s the great thing about what we put together, one

Ernesto Verdugo 7:03
of the things that we noticed was that most of the chambers of commerce, they were offering a location, but the location, you know, it was, it was not the location that we thought it was exactly what was needed at that at that specific moment. And once again, as we were mentioning, for example, how they can use you to how they can start using them so that they can attract more, more business, how they can figure it out how to create a customer journey. And this is exactly what we started putting together and we put it we put it in very small bite size videos and lesson plans, so that they will not be struggling with you know, this is a full two hour course or anything that’s actually very, very easy for them to digest this information. And yeah, I mean, the people that take it seriously and then they you know, it’s we always say once more or less than that they will help you tremendously, so that you can start knowing how to go into the 21st century in my eyes. And this is one of the things that I always mentioned in my eyes. Unfortunately, many of the people which are actually doing business through it through chambers of commerce, they are a little bit behind in time. And we said well you know if this is what we need to do, we have to push all of this so that we can actually take people to the 21st century.

Brandon Burton 8:25
I like it so I’m excited to dive into deeper discussion about growing protect because I see great value in having a video resource library for chambers to point their members to to help them grow and protect their business and and get out of just the brick and mortar you know who’s in your local community. But let’s let’s broaden what that economy looks like. And I love how this is no cost to chambers so we’ll dive into that in much more depth as soon as they get back from this quick break.

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All right, Frank and Ernesto we’re back. As I mentioned before the break, I wanted to dive in deeper about grown protect. Frank, you alluded to kind of the beginnings of grown protect in February of 2020. Why don’t you tell us a story of how grown protect came to be and how the vision came and and how you guys enrolled this? Yeah, I’m

Frank Mulcahy 12:04
happy to do that. And we’re gonna go back to February of 2020, which was actually about three weeks before the great lockdown. And as international speakers, we were booked in Mumbai, India, at the world, HR 2020. Congress. And I remember that Ernesto myself, Dave crane, several of us that traveled together around the world. We were at the Taj Hotel, and we were talking about Wuhan, China like everybody else. The difference was because we’re only 1000 miles away, we started to realize that, yeah, they’re shutting down flights from China to the US. But what people didn’t realize is they were flying from China into India, India, into Europe, and then on to the states. And so we sat at the Taj Hotel, that second week in February, and we said, our whole world’s going to change, but we had no idea it would be two years plus, that businesses would still be suffering. And so we will wonder what we’re going to do. And Ernesto and he can tell you about it in a second. But he immediately once we got back to the states on March the 12th, when we had the great shutdown, he launched a web TV show, and never missed a beat had over 100 broadcasts had 1000s of people listening to it daily. And then I said, well, I need to, I need to become a YouTube influencer. And I need to take all my speaking virtual rather than public during the Great lockdown. And while my customers are not my customers, but while my competition, Brandon was wondering, What am I going to do now? There’s no public speaking, no access to people. I never missed a beat. And people were fascinated that at 69 years old, I became a YouTube influencer. But I took advantage of it because it’s relatively simple. And that’s how we started and we said, we have the skills. We did a survey, I met with Aaron Cox, who was the president of the Texas Chamber of Commerce executives. I went up to Austin had lunch with him. I said, I said, Aaron, this is what I’m looking to put together a library of two 300 videos of how people can actually protect their business grow their business, and they can do it even technically challenged. What do you think he said, we talked about this for five years at the Greater Texas Chamber of Commerce executives, but nobody knew where to start. I said, Well, my partner and I got it pretty much 50% bill. And we put together Boyd Brandon, with chamber executives that I’ve known over the last 40 plus years and asked for the curriculum, what would they think their businesses needed? And as a result, we have the growing protect dot app, which is as as you said, it’s free to chain Because of commerce to give back to the membership, so that they can grow their business. And the only cost is $1 to activate the mobile app.

Brandon Burton 15:11
So Ernesto, I think your daughter had a great spark of, I don’t know, Prophesy ingenuity, I don’t know what you want to call it. But she had some unique foresight to say you need to be a YouTuber, and make that shift. And I see how that’s paid off for you. And for Frank, and for the influence that you’ve had. How did you go from, I guess, taking the videos as a YouTuber, to organizing it into an app that has a training resource library, and specifically for Chamber members?

Ernesto Verdugo 15:46
Well, as Frank was mentioning, when we jumped into the web TV show, we knew that we had to go digital. So every I mean, in those days, some was not what it what it is right now. I mean, it suddenly started becoming a very important tool, we were actually not transmitting through through zoom, we were using other other software. And we were doing it through Facebook. And it was very interesting. That was the beginning of the lockdown. We went from having nobody watching the TV show to having for about 100 days in a row. We were having about 1000 1500 people watching the show every single day. And then we said, well, you know, this is it. This is the way to communicate in this time. And it was great. But then what happened was that after the after the lockdown, the initial lockdown started easing off, we started losing the audience. I mean, we suddenly were, you know, we were novelty during the time of the, of the lockdown, but then suddenly, I mean, we started losing the audience. And then that’s when my daughter told me Well, you know, the problem is, you have to go into YouTube, because YouTube is going to be the one of the platform, which is going to give you the most exposure. Now, the problem with YouTube is, it is the most effective tool, but it’s the most difficult to understand because you don’t have to think as a marketer, you don’t have to think as an influencer, you don’t have to think as somebody that wants to run social media or anything like that, you have to think like a real TV model. And then we started realizing, well, you know, this is basically if you have a channel, as they call it, you have to have some kind of programming. And this programming needs to be interesting. And you have to make sure that you have the enough retention for people to watch the content that you’re creating. And then we started experimenting. I mean, we started doing several shows Frank and I, some of the videos that we created were crap. I mean, we have to absolutely accept it. But then we started figuring out well, you know what, this is what works if we know exactly what kind of content and we make it fun, and we make it entertaining, and we make it you know, a way that people will be able to consume it, these little, these little 10 minute 15 minute videos are going to become very effective. And exactly what happened. I mean, we started having a lot of traction on those videos on YouTube. And then that’s when we said, Well, I think you know what, let’s also capitalize from all of this, and start putting it into a platform so that all the people in the chambers of commerce will be able to benefit from it. I love

Brandon Burton 18:29
that. And I like to you can own and admit that some of the videos are just crap. The best way to get better is just put in the reps, keep doing it. And the more practice you get at it, the better you get, and the more refined your process.

Frank Mulcahy 18:45
Aaron, let me add to that, Brandon, if I might. One of the ways that we’re able to get the quality of the videos increased, what we put, we actually put together an advisory board of chamber executives, people that had a minimum of 20 years as the leaders of chambers. And we asked them about the curriculum, we asked them about the lesson plans. And so although Ernesto, and I like to think that were the founders, there were a tremendous amount of chamber professionals that advised us to what they needed and what they wanted.

Brandon Burton 19:24
Awesome. So let’s dive into the content of it as the trainings what, as a chamber explores this is they look at an opportunity to be able to share this video resource library with their members. What kind of trainings would they expect to find in there that they could share with their members? Well,

Frank Mulcahy 19:43
we will go back and forth will each add on to this but I think I think the most important thing in the first lesson we start with is about mindset, the shift in the mindset as to how business and commerce is now conducted worldwide because most people Well, they’re still stuck at the best skills and attributes of five years ago, which are probably the excess baggage today. And so we have to make this fundamental shift that as time progresses, the way that we develop things, the way that we serve customers, the way we go to the marketplace, is constantly changing and evolving. And that’s where we work, first of all on the mindset, and the aspect that they can look for the future trends. And then from there, let’s do you want to give them a couple of the lesson plans that we did, and so from YouTube?

Ernesto Verdugo 20:36
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I mean, for example, one of the one of the ones that I think it’s very powerful is the digital stagecraft. There’s a whole lesson on how to communicate, as we are doing it right now in zoom. Still, you see people after two years that they still do not really know how to use some properly, they look incredibly unprofessional. And right now we can show in absolutely everywhere in the world, and you have to look your best. So that is one of them. I mean, the other one would be on the customer journey, as we were mentioning, and it was very, it was very funny, because we actually went to IKEA in in Houston to record these so that people will understand that right now is not that you’re selling a product, you’re selling a whole whole journey of what your products are, and how you can actually make the most out of every customer that goes into your into your business, customer acquisition. Lead Generation, we’re having LinkedIn training we’re having how to how to get your brand, across all over the place how to become Omni omnipresent, which right now it’s the most important thing in the in the world, because what happens now is that, for example, doesn’t matter what it is, if you’re going to go on a date, or if you are going to ask for a job, or whatever it is, the first thing that people will do is they will Google you. And you are not who you say you are, you’re a Google who actually Google says who you are. And that is one of those things that most businesses do not really take seriously. So if you go and search and pictures there, people are not going to take your series, but the moment that they see that you’re absolutely everywhere and omnipresent, what’s going to happen is that they’re going to have instant respect. And one of the things that Frank and I really found was that when you when people can see your accomplishments without you having to talk about them, what’s going to happen is, you know, the the Speed of Trust is going to is going to be there they’re going to be people are going to trust you right away. I mean, and this is exactly what happens when people hear my name. They go and google me, and they see that I am absolutely everywhere. And there’s over a million results about me in Google. People don’t question me, if I go to speak, and I say well, my fees $10,000. I can justify it because of course, I’m pretty well known. So that’s the important thing. And most people are still on found double with with Google. And that’s another of the lessons that we’re talking about just just to name a few.

Brandon Burton 23:22
Even just when I started chamber chat podcast, as I initially was reaching out to people to be guests on the podcast. Initially, it was hard, because people didn’t know who I was, if they went to Google and search me or the podcast, there wasn’t a whole lot out there. So they were really trying to do the research. And, and now if somebody searches, you know, chamber chat, podcast or my name, it’s going to be all over the place. But it I see that being that having that influence that Omni presence everywhere really is valuable in creating that that digital footprint, but it translates from what you’re doing in your brick and mortar building, to the web.

Frank Mulcahy 24:04
So absolutely. And you know, there was a study that I saw in Forbes magazine, Brandon, and it said, 65% of millennials and this is just six months ago, 65% of millennials prefer not to talk to somebody in the transactional process of making a decision. They want to go online, they want to see video validation, they want to see your brand as a company. Who are you Where have you been? What have you accomplished? I mean, if we stop and think about it random, people go to Yelp to decide whether they’re going to go to a new hamburger or pizza or Chinese restaurant based on the reviews of others. So we certainly have to we have to accept the fact that they’re going to be looking at us IP were a survey company a real estate a construction roofing, contracting, educate It doesn’t matter what we are as Chamber members, people are going to research you. And based on what they find, they’re either going to keep delaying the process to business with you, or they’re going to accelerate it because as Ernesto said, they have the trust. And that’s probably one of the key things. As we as we do the grown protect, we also do monthly live collaboration calls for the for the users. And we’re able to go to these lesson plans. And when they understand that tremendous growth happens in their business, Brandon tremendous,

Brandon Burton 25:34
right? So it’s interesting how these things come together. You know, Frankie had mentioned 65% of Millennials don’t want to interact with the individual with another in person, you know, transaction. And we’re nesto talked about the customer journey experience filming an Ikea my customer journey at IKEA is very different. Yeah, I’ll go there, knowing what I want. And I’ll go right to the warehouse, get the boxes I want and check out I refuse to walk through the maze of the customer journey at IKEA. So you know, everybody has these different different ways to interact. But being able to, to know your customer being able to be omni present, have those reviews out there be able to get that good feedback. And it sounds like all these trainings, you have address these various different topics and, and really kind of stack on top of each other to build a strong business to grow and protect, right. So tell us how does grow and protect work for a chamber? If a chamber wanted to adopt grown protect for their organization for their members? What does that look like? for

Frank Mulcahy 26:43
that? Yeah, the first thing I urged them to do is to give me a call, let’s set up a 1015 minute discovery call. And they can go to speak to frank.com, speak to frank.com. And they can book on my calendar. But what I’m going to explain to them, Brandon is that there is no cost to the chamber at all. Everything we’re doing is going to be in the realm. If they look at our video grow and protect that app, they’ll see that the message to the Chamber members is that the chamber is bringing these resources to their members. And it’s so refreshing because now rather than the chambers asking him for another sponsorship or another donation more time, they’re actually giving something back to the Chamber members, which is a $297 value. But the chamber member gets it for $1 for $1 lifetime access to all of the lesson plans, plus the monthly collaboration calls that are nesto. And I do what we’re doing live trainings with guest sponsors. And we’re bringing in, we’re bringing in all of the lesson plans, as Ernesto said, digestible chunks, three minutes, five minutes, six minutes, and the but they can walk through it at their pace. And they can choose somebody might say, I want to do the LinkedIn, because I really want to learn how to get a refined marketing statement, one that causes people to raise their hand and say, Brandon, please tell me more about chamber chat, or the contract. Tell me more. That’s what we’re doing is we’re walking them through this. So for the chambers, you’re going to increase your membership, you’re going to increase your membership fees, you’re going to increase your sponsorships and you’re doing it at no capital expense. So the first thing they did book that 10 minute discovery call and let’s see whether or not this is good for your chamber and we’ll set them up at no charge.

Brandon Burton 28:44
So as we start wrapping up here, I wanted to ask what would be one maybe tip or action item for chamber champions listening who want to take their chamber up to the next level? I’m sure you both have a tip but maybe Ernesto we can start with you on that response.

Ernesto Verdugo 29:01
Well, obviously I will definitely recommend that you take us on this on a call. You know we are we we have done is we have taken the way that chambers have done business forever but now we have taken it into the digital world. I mean everybody asks, well, how’s it possible we spend a huge amount of time and money developing this, this problem and then everybody says well how could you give it away for free and this is what I think it’s very, very interesting and then I’ll tie it to a very good tip. Normally for example, if chambers are having events, they bring out speakers and they the speakers also benefit because of of the exposure that they get. Well this is exactly the same thing but digital. So if it is if it is free, if it is at no cost and it is absolutely for education so that you can you increase increase the value that you provide to your chamber. This is an absolute must for for every chamber to, to be using it because it’s going to make a big difference. What with the results that you’re that your Chamber members second we’ll be having?

Brandon Burton 30:20
Very good. Frank, do you have anything you’d like to add as far as a tip or action item for listeners? Yeah,

Frank Mulcahy 30:26
yeah, I want to continue on that same thought that Ernesto just had there. As he said, chambers. And I said it earlier that I grew my entire business, Brandon, from Chambers of Commerce. I started with rotaries, Lyons, Kiwanis, but I very quickly realized the business community is at the chamber. And so you know, most chambers, they bring in a speaker, but it’s complimentary. We really don’t get paid like we do when we get on the big stage. And so I realized that if I could, if I could put together virtually a library, which I think today and so we’ve got over 270 lesson plans within the growing protect app with about 50 more planned over the next quarter. Then what’s gonna happen, Brandon, is that the CEOs, the executives, the association’s, they’re going to, they’re going to stop and say, you know, this is great stuff, whether it’s pocket filmmaking, client acquisition, customer traction, digital optics, refined marketing statements, whatever it is, and they’re gonna ask us, can you come in, for instance, you introduce me in the bio, that I’m very, very big in the cyber awareness arena. But I’m also known worldwide for disruptive, abusive behavior in the workplace, which is devastating to the workplace. And it’s amazing how the chambers have grown my, my training companies, where I come in and solve workplace bullying situations for clients, like the city of Houston, the state of Texas, the National Nuclear Security Administration, I never would have had those contracts. Brandon, unless I had spoken at that chamber. At some point in time, we don’t know when we just know that the more we serve, the more we profit, the chain, a complimentary.

Brandon Burton 32:17
Very good, I liked those responses. So I’d like asking everyone I have on the show, as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward? And we’ll give you both a shot at this as well. So Ernesto, if you want to take first stab at that, yeah,

Ernesto Verdugo 32:35
I think the the, you know, right now we have seen it. I mean, in my eyes, a lot of the chambers are little pockets, which are, you know, in everywhere, and right now, because we are going in a global way of thinking, I think, I think the future of the Chamber of Commerce, business is to be able to provide opportunities locally, but also globally. And, you know, it’s it’s one of those things that it’s inevitable. So I think that’s where I see the that’s, that’s why I’m very excited about, you know, working with with several chambers, because every time that we talk to them, and we tell them our vision of how things are going to be working. And they always say, Yeah, I definitely think that that’s the way to do it to actually grow locally, but also have a element of globalization to for our members.

Brandon Burton 33:32
Love that. Frank, what is your future, the Chamber vision look like?

Frank Mulcahy 33:37
It as I talk more and more with our advisory board every month, it’s about developing more avenues for commerce, Chamber members want to know, what are they getting for the return on investment? And what you know, how are you helping me to grow my business. And unfortunately, with these online courses, that that Constant Contact, that’s not cutting it, with Chamber members, from as far away as Sri Lanka, and Malta and London, and all across the United States, because in the last year, we’ve actually grown to almost 300 chambers that are now offering a growing protect app. And as more and more of the people are on the collaboration calls, Brandon, that creating that, that that connection that Ernesto just talked about, outside of Houston, or outside of Texas, or outside the southwest, but they actually can pick up additional clients and prospects all across North America and the world. And in the digital economy. We all have to we all have to accept this. That somewhere right now. There’s an 11 or 12 year old sitting in the bedroom with a cell phone and an Internet connectivity that is becoming our next competition. because they don’t need the back office, they don’t need the business plan, they don’t need the funding, all they need is a little bit of grasp of where the technology is going, and how they can use all these channels we talked about and grow and protect, we walk you through every single one of them, and then start to implement them a little bit here, a little bit there. And the next thing you know, your members are now picking up new product lines, new customers around the world, additional avenues of income, and they’re going to use the internet, rather than being used by the internet. And that’s the greatest value that we provide.

Brandon Burton 35:41
That’s great. Yeah, be it be a creator of content instead of a consumer only of content. So well, I want to give you both an opportunity to share any contact information for anyone listening who’d like to reach out and connect and, and learn how to work with growing protect, what would be the best way Frankie had mentioned, speak to frank.com? Are there other ways that you’d like people to reach out and connect?

Frank Mulcahy 36:08
Yeah, and you know, again, they can reach out just go to Google put in Frank Mulcahy. groan, protect, you know, but speak to frank.com is the best one, Brandon because they can actually go into my calendar, and book a collaboration call. It’s free. We’ll have an online cup of coffee and show you what we can do for your chamber, and make you part of the ground protect family where you actually can now serve your chambers. And a lot of the chambers, Brandon will actually come and do live presentations for them, depending on where they are geographically and where we are. But we can we can tailor any program for any chamber. Because we have Chambers from all around the world now and every nationality. And there’s never any selling. It’s all about serving and delivering value, no selling. And if people raise their hand and say Ernesto, Frank, Brandon, please tell me more. That’s what we’re looking for us that relations.

Brandon Burton 37:14
Right. That’s beautiful. Well, thank you both for joining me today on chamber chat podcasts and joining all the chamber champions listening, what you guys are doing is definitely creating a lot of value. It’s creating a opportunity for Chamber members for these local businesses to further develop their business and to become stronger to become more resilient going forward into the future. So appreciate the work you guys are doing, and especially focusing on on Chambers of Commerce. That definitely is our niche. So thank you for that. And thank you for joining us today.

Frank Mulcahy 37:55
It’s my pleasure. Thank you, Brandon.

Ernesto Verdugo 37:57
Thank you, Brandon.

Your audience is waiting to hear from you as a convener of leaders and influencers champion for business and catalyst for change within your community.

Wisdom from the Wild with Julie Henry

Below is an auto-generated transcription of my conversation with Julie Henry. Because this is auto-generated there are likely some grammatical errors but it is still a useful tool to search text within this podcast episode.

Feel free to join our Chamber Chat Champions Facebook Group to discuss this episode and to share your own experiences and tips with other Chamber Champions.

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Introduction

Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

And now, your host, he’s always intrigued when he sees a snake in the wild. He’s my dad, Brandon Burton.

Hello Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. It’s my goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

Our title sponsor is Holman Brothers Membership Sales Solutions. Let’s hear from Matt Morrow President and CEO of the Springfield Area Chamber in Missouri to learn how the Holman Brothers provided value to his chamber.

Matt Morrow 0:45

Holman Brothers provide a great training for our sales team in terms of just outstanding sales techniques. But maybe even more importantly than that, they were able to provide us with a system a process that was repeatable and in that we’re able to see very clearly from one month to the next how the how the pipeline is doing, what prospects are in it, what kind of progress we’re making and what we can do to coach people to success.

Brandon Burton 1:06

You can learn more about Holman Brothers Membership Sales Solutions by visiting holmanbros.com.

Guest Introduction

Our guest for this episode is Julie Henry. Julie is president of finish line leadership and author of wisdom from the wild the nine unbreakable Laws of Leadership from the animal kingdom. Former Zoo and Aquarium senior leader, Julie has worked with over 55 organizations across corporate nonprofit government association and community sectors. She holds a Bachelors of Science degrees in both zoology and education and Masters of Arts and Communication and an executive program certificate in sustainable business leadership. She is dedicated to helping people deal with change lead teams and build resilience using insights from wildlife and wild places. Julie has presented over a million people across 32 states and six countries in settings ranging from auditoriums and ballrooms to boats, beaches, forests, theaters, boardrooms, and even underwater while feeding sharks and moray eels. She lives in Sarasota, Florida with her two children whom she lovingly describes as her zoo animal and her wild animal due to each one’s natural inclination towards life. Julie, I’m happy to have you with me today on Chamber Chat Podcast, if you would take a moment to say hello to all the Chamber Champions and share something interesting about yourself so you can get to know you a little bit better.

About Julie Henry

Julie Henry 3:06
Oh, it’s so great to be here. Thank you so much for the invitation. I love talking all things, wildlife and wild places, and especially if you can help somebody think about something a little bit different. I’m happy to do that. And something interesting about me is if you ask me what my favorite animal is, it’s not actually in the book. It is a giant squid. And I think giant squid are fascinating because, um, you know, they get in battles with sperm whales. And we didn’t even know that we didn’t see one alive for a long time out until like, the past 10 years alive in his natural habitat. So it was a it was a conundrum, you know, an animal of legend that we kept searching for. And I love that.

Brandon Burton 3:41
Right. Wow, that is a good insight. There might be another chapter in you somewhere about.

Well, I’d like for you to take a moment to share a little bit about your background about your organization Finish Line leadership and and your relationship with chambers of commerce throughout your work just to kind of show the relevance to why we’re having you on Chamber Chat Podcast today.

Julie Henry 4:10
Yeah, thanks. I appreciate that. You know, when I spent the first 10 years working for organizations working for other people in nonprofit and corporate settings, and then when I launched my business in 2008, my sister in law actually said to me, you need to join the Chamber of Commerce. And I said, Well, why I don’t understand I just never had really been involved in chambers of commerce. And she said, Well, you need to it’s, you know, community, it’s its growth, it’s networking. It’s everything, and especially if you’re going to run your own business, and I said, Well, okay, and, and so I checked it out and immediately, I was really interested to get involved in many as many ways as possible. So that was putting my hand up and saying, Yeah, I want to join this committee, and then it was sure I’ll serve on the board and then it was, yeah, run this committee for green business. leadership because to me, Chambers of Commerce are such a necessary part of our community to provide a gathering space, a convenient space for people to talk about things that are hard and challenging and business as well as to support each other. And then over time, they became my clients hired to help them with facilitation to find new executive directors, I’ve been helping recently with the leadership programs that many of them have in the local area. So I’ve, I’ve been on both sides or every side of the coin, and I continue to think that they provide a very valuable and necessary role in our communities.

Brandon Burton 5:38
Absolutely. I appreciate you sharing that background. And it is very fitting to you to have that such close contact with chambers of commerce and several communities. And to be able to integrate that with the lessons that you share in your book today, which is going to be the topic that we’ll cover is diving into a little bit more of your book of Wisdom from the Wild, which is the nine unbreakable Laws of Leadership from the animal kingdom. And we’ll dive into this discussion as soon as they get back from this quick break.

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Topic-Wisdom from the Wild

All right, Julie, we are back. You know, I’d like to say that it would be an understatement to say you hit a homerun with this book, you know, a lot of people, they, they talk about writing a book, and then when it comes down to it, they balk, you know, then they never actually do it. And sometimes, you know, if they’ve already put out information about it, they kind of find themselves in a pickle, you know, because they they’re not going forward with what they said they would do. And I’m saying all these things on purpose to dry out these these metaphors, these analogies there throughout life. All right, as we talk about hitting that home run or boxing or being in a pickle, a lot of these analogies are sports related. A lot of them are baseball related, I would say that wisdom from the wild, it covers a lot of the blocking and tackling of leadership. So there’s a football analogy there. But we don’t see a ton of analogies from nature in our everyday lexicon and conversations. However, I will say my oldest, my oldest child, he’s about a year and a half he’ll be leaving the nest and spreading his wings. So he’ll he’ll be getting out there in the world. But we could uh, we could either stick our head in the sand and pretend like these. These laws of nature don’t exist in leadership and have those parallels. Or we could talk to Julie and we could read her book and see some of these parallels. So Julie, I’d like to hand it over to you and share maybe what was your driving force behind writing this book writing wisdom to the Wild and drying out these lessons that you’ve noticed in the wild in creating those parallels to leadership?

Julie Henry 10:08
Yeah, you know, and I’ll the first thing I’ll say is that I find nature the great equalizer, because it doesn’t matter if you live in downtown Tokyo or rural Oklahoma, or if you have a Harvard MBA or if you’re 16 years old, and you haven’t graduated high school yet, you can walk outside and think about, hmm, I wonder why that’s happening. Or let me learn more about that. And you don’t have to pose in nature, you can just be yourself. In fact, nature demands that your yourself doesn’t let you

Brandon Burton 10:38
be natural. Yeah.

Julie Henry 10:41
Like it’s gonna call you out. If you try to hike a mountain in high heels, you’re not going to go very far. And so I think nature is a way for people to have leadership conversations that strips away the need to know the answers already, because nature is about being curious and asking questions. And that’s really what life is about, let alone leadership. And I also will say that when I was in college, you know, my dad was a leadership development guy, he ran his own business, my mom was a teacher, and I was a science kid. So somehow, it’s going to stitch them all together. And my college professor gave me a project and said, teach people about coral reefs. That was my project. And I thought, well, not everybody’s going to be interested in coral reefs, what if I use the analogy of a business and talk about how coral reefs operate together, just like a business does with different departments, etc. And that was in 1996. So it’s only grown since then. So when I worked in zoos, and aquariums, I would always invite companies in, like, come to a retreat here, this is an interesting place. And let me help you think about your communication challenges through the eyes of you know, a pelican rather than, like the top 10, you know, communication laws. And then when I flipped it, and I was working as a consultant, I would be, you know, literally 1500 feet underground in a limestone mine, working with people that work in shift work, and it’s 11 o’clock at night, and they’ve been there for 42 years, if I can tell them stories about, you know, a sea turtle, then suddenly I’ve got their attention. And that’s important. So it was for all of those reasons. And we learn everything else from nature, architecture, our medicine, music, everything, why not leadership?

Brandon Burton 12:18
Yeah, I love that. And I’m hoping after you, after people hearing this discussion, and and chamber leaders reading your book, hopefully, they can come out of it and say, I really need some coral reef time, or, you know, through this pandemic, you know, I was, I was quite the sea cucumber, you know. So, these things will make more sense as we get on with our conversation here. But you have your book broken up into three main sections. So you talk about change, teamwork, and resilience. So I think for the chamber for chamber professionals listening, change, teamwork and real resilience are three areas that they need to be hyper aware of all the time, because starting with change, you know, those changes always happening. But I’d like to focus on maybe one of these topics of change, where we you talked about not being distracted by fear? What lessons did you learn from nature that correlate to leadership revolving around fear?

Julie Henry 13:20
I’m glad you picked that one. Because I think change, of course, is ubiquitous, right? In every part of our life, let alone as a leader, but also, it’s your great calling. And as a leader, if you’re not leading change, then I don’t know what you’re doing. You can’t just No, no leader that I’ve ever talked to, I said, I just kind of want to manage the status quo, like, do you? Or do you want to innovate and serve your community better? I think it’s the latter. But in order to do that, you are going to be confronted by either your fear of the unknown, or people around you who have, you know, I don’t know, maybe brainstormed many, many times on giant post, it notes, all their ideas, and then they never get taken. So they’re afraid to do it again. Or they’re new at the organization, and they don’t want to commit their ideas. Or maybe you’re trying to change the membership structure of your chamber. Oh, my gosh, that’s so hard. I’ve been in those conversations, like, how do we restructure to better serve our members? And how do we price it and how do we market it? I mean, your listeners know exactly what I’m talking about. I know they do. And there’s innate fear, both on oh my gosh, are people going to like not join again? Because we’ve changed the membership structure. And who do we make more angry? Right, right. So think about the animals that scare us. Universally, right? Snakes, and spiders. Those are the animals that come to mind. And the thing about spiders is, I love spiders, love spiders. I find them totally fascinating, but even me, I can still be startled if I turn on the light and there’s a giant spider the size of my hand next to the light switch as has happened before. That still startles me So even if you’re totally comfortable with leading change, and you’ve been down that road, you can still be startled by fear. And it’s important to understand and recognize that fear is just a part of being a human. And you’ve got to validate that and call that out, and you cannot ignore it or sleep, sweep it under the table, if you want your change to actually stick when you’re on the other side of it.

Brandon Burton 15:21
I love that. And I think, you know, nature for us fear is something It’s a survival mechanism. You know, we have that fear for a reason, and it’s to survive. So when you see that, that spider or snake for me, I like snakes, I’ve had pet snakes, I’m fascinated by snakes. But if I’m out for a run, and there’s a stick in the road that kind of looks like a snake that catches me off guard, I’m going to stop, because I don’t know what kind of snake it is. But then I get curious, sometimes it’s a stick, sometimes it’s a snake, and I’ll stop and watch it for a bit. But it goes back to being curious. So don’t let the fear stop you from being curious. kind of lean into it and see what you can learn from it is what I understood.

Julie Henry 16:04
I love that. Yep, I call it fear is nature’s yellow light. Just slow down.

Brandon Burton 16:09
Yes, absolutely. So you talked a lot about teamwork. And there’s a I want to move on to the teamwork section. Because there’s a couple topics on this that I wanted to have you highlight and talk more about, but one of them is the the chapter is titled, there’s no one size fits all approach to teamwork. And in the chamber world, everyone has heard the saying that if you’ve seen one chamber, you’ve seen one chamber, meaning that no two chambers are alike. Talk to us a little bit about this and how that relates to leadership and specifically with chambers.

Julie Henry 16:46
Yes, I think that chambers are one of the most unique organizations that I’ve been involved with and worked with. And sometimes that’s a great thing. And sometimes that’s a challenging thing, especially when it comes to communicating, you know, your relevance, or why should people should get involved sometimes, like I did, I had, I didn’t understand it, you know, long time ago when I was first getting involved. And there are some animals that from the outside look a little unusual. In fact, one of my favorite animals about this is naked mole rats, and naked mole rats, when we first discovered them, literally, the people thought they were mutations because they’re super funky looking. And they have big teeth, and they look basically naked. They’re hairless, almost mammals, they live underground, they live together. And we just ignored them for a while until we rediscovered them in the 50s. And then came to understand that oh my gosh, they actually live in colonies like bees. And they’re super effective at how they’ve divided all of the labor, if you will, between these animals. And they’re basically blind, but they communicate by your trails of urine and stack up together, keep their body temperature regulated, even though they’re mammals, I mean, so, you know, I love naked mole rats, and I champion them. And I tell people, when your team seems a little unusual from the outside, or your organization does, I want you to lean into that and champion your naked mole rat team, you don’t own explanation, anybody and you’re probably super highly functional, even though you may look kind of strange from the outside, but embrace that and own it. And don’t ever shy away from it. That’s why I love that you call your listeners chamber champions, because I want them to champion the fact that they are also naked mole rats,

Brandon Burton 18:28
yes. Love that. can bring it full circle, I love it. And I think that’s so true that as we look at, you know, especially working with maybe people on a committee, you know, they might bring an idea or an approach. It’s like, man, that’s really weird, you know, and you can kind of put it aside and say, That’s weird, and stay away from it. Or you can, again, be curious and lean into it and say, Well, what, what is there that we can learn from this? And are there things that we can implement and become stronger for it and maybe attract other people to come along our mission with us? So I’d love the lessons from the naked mole rats. So the other chapter that I wanted to touch on under Teamwork was, especially I think, important during these times were in chambers all over focusing on diversity, equity and inclusion. And you have a chapter titled, surround yourself with people who are not like you. And you talk specifically about a termite meeting giraffe and giraffe meet the termite. And I’d love for you to share more about that story and maybe, you know, make those correlations to what we see in the real life today.

Julie Henry 19:43
Yeah, you know, if you thought about a termite giraffe, they may not even seem like they even live in the same habitat, let alone need each other but they do because you know, the Africans van it’s pretty hard place to survive. There’s not a lot of water out there and you’ve got to work together and so they while they’re not actively Working together, they’re participating in helping each other survive. So the termite is breaking down vegetation as they’re, you know, chewing it up, basically. And, and that is attracting the giraffes to come over and basically eat that vegetation. And then they’re laying their own feces and urine. If you Well, there’s a lot of conversation about this on this podcast, I apologize, hopefully.

Brandon Burton 20:24
We’re not advocating for chambers here. Just to be clear, right? Now, we’re not

Julie Henry 20:30
gonna remember this, because we’re talking about it. You know, so, you know, for me, I remember the first board I was ever involved in, I remember, in this giant, long, giant board, it was 40 people long meeting, it was eight hours long. And I remember thinking, Oh, my gosh, this is super stressful. And I don’t know, really how I’m participating, etcetera. And the formative thing for me was the fact that I think towards the end of this meeting, one person basically said one sentence and summarize the entire eight hours, we call the meeting to order, we took a vote and we finished it. And that is not how I operate. As you can tell, I have a lot to say, and I communicate with my words all the time. And immediately, I thought, oh, my gosh, he’s different than me. And I need to be with him on all of these projects, because we’re going to be better together, and the outcome is going to be even stronger. And that’s an uncomfortable thing, too, though, right? Because I’m like, What are you thinking? You’re not talking? I’m talking all the time? And what are you thinking, but I had to lean into that. So that’s, that’s, that’s one way of looking at it. And then the diversity, equity inclusion is, of course, the other part of that, because, you know, people who are not like us are, sometimes they scare us, because it makes us try to think differently, or just acknowledge that we don’t know all the answers. But remember nature’s about curiosity. And if the termites and drafts need each other, then you need also a termite to your giraffe.

Brandon Burton 21:55
Absolutely. And one thing that came to mind is you were giving your response there is, so there’s the diversity, equity inclusion, part of it of, you know, trying to figure out those people in your community that you may have not even noticed before, you might not have noticed that they were part of your community, you might not have noticed that they had a business in your community, because of whatever the type of business it is, or the person that’s running it, their background, or whatever it may be. There, I can guarantee their segments in any community where you have not noticed certain people or certain types of businesses. And if you can kind of open your eyes as a giraffe, like what purposes is giraffe have to look way down on the ground, there’s a little termites that are going around feces and stuff down there. Whereas, you know, in the chamber world to be able to look a little deeper within your community. And on the Diversity Equity inclusion topic, we always talk about who’s missing. And rather than just who’s missing, I would say, Who Have you not noticed, and try to notice a little bit more. And then I think there’s another part of it when it comes to networking, I mean, chambers, editorials for having networking events, and you’re making introductions, and if we can help certain businesses, see other businesses that they may not realize they’re connected, but to be able to help build, you know, build that bridge between their two businesses and say, here’s why you need each other, here’s how you can be stronger together, and help form those solid relationships. I think really reemphasizes that a whole story of the termite giraffe. So So as we move on to the resilience section, there’s a couple in this as well, that I wanted to touch on. So especially coming through this COVID pandemic, resilience has been a key topic of how do you, you know, first of all stay relevant, how do you adapt to that change? But then how do you thrive through it? And I think that boils down to resiliency. And your chapter titled you’re wired not just to survive, but to thrive. And you talk about sea cucumbers. Help us make that connection there.

Julie Henry 24:14
So before I answer that question, I just want to say that the reason why I’m so passionate about everything in this book, and everything we’re talking about is because I didn’t just think of these examples, and suggest to your listeners that maybe they should consider this. Everything we’re talking about is absolutely true. That’s why I call them unbreakable laws, like termites and drafts, they need each other spiders are needed and sea cucumbers are wired to when they are threatened. Ie they’re living on the bottom of the ocean floor. Here comes this predator are about to get eaten. Their mechanism to survive is literally to eat visceral, which means to throw up their own guts, right? That’s Crazy, this animal that is trying to eat the sea cucumber will either swim away or potentially eat the guts of the sea cucumber. Now, if that happens, this sea cucumber, which basically looks like a sausage on the ocean floor, it doesn’t actually look like it’s capable of much. However, it is related to sea stars. So probably most people listening know that a sea star can regrow its arm if it gets cut off, or eaten or whatever. Same thing with a sea cucumber, it can regrow its own guts, that is a biological fact and absolute certainty. That’s how it’s wired to survive, but also to thrive. So if a relatively innocuous animal on the ocean floor can survive a huge threat literally within inches of its life. Those times when you are afraid of change, or leading your team down a road, that you’re just really not sure if it’s even the right road to go. But someone’s got to make a decision. And that’s you. And you literally feel sick to your stomach. The awareness and the recognition that you’re wired to get through. This brings not only great comfort, but also should build your confidence and let you lean in a little more and totally erase it pastures is syndrome, anything else that we talk about, like, it’s your biological fact that you’re gonna get through this and you’re gonna thrive on the other side, it’s going to be uncomfortable, I can’t imagine what it feels like to regrow your guts, but you’re going to do it

Brandon Burton 26:31
just that image of regrowing your guts. So, I see the parallel to again, through the pandemic is you know, initially when everything shut down there was that kind of wait and see phase where chambers and businesses just kind of like okay, let’s let’s take the temperature, let’s see what’s going on here. And once we realize this is gonna go on longer than what we expected. It’s not just two weeks, this is gonna go on much longer. He saw businesses he said chambers that had to do layoffs. He said chambers that had to tap into their reserves that they’ve you know, saved up for decades, possibly those reserve funds. You said chamber offices that had to shut down their physical location and everybody was working remotely from home. And I don’t know that looks a lot like you know, getting rid of your your insides and in still figuring out how to pull it back together, how to regenerate how to get back into the office, how to rehire how to get your funding backup, all while at the same time remaining relevant and serving their their membership base that that needed them so badly at that time. So I think that is a an excellent parallel to the sea cucumbers. It probably one of my favorite chapters was was the last chapter the book, as you talked about resilience, and it’s titled even cheetahs slow down. I know. Well, I’m gonna, I’m gonna let you talk about that before I share any of my thoughts, because I think we may touch on some of the same things.

Julie Henry 28:16
This is the last chapter of the book. But the pivotal moment when I realized after 25 years of having the idea in college was time to write the book. Because I had talked to so many people at that point and felt that way myself, that it is again, a biological fact and unbreakable law that even cheetahs slow down. But if I were to ask your listeners to think in their head, when I say the word cheetah, what do you think of? Now? Chances are, you’re thinking about the fact that it’s the fastest land animal. And if you were to Google cheetah, you’re pulling up all of these images about how fast they run. And that’s what they’re talking about. Okay, well naive. How many of you have ever been to a zoo or even been to Africa and seeing the cheetah running? Probably not many people actually seeing the cheetah running unless the zoo has, you know, structured it for an event or for you know, interaction? Most of the time, they are hanging out and resting and relaxing. And they are not, I think overthinking when they’re resting and relaxing, right? So we glorify the idea of being busy with effective leader in our culture. And that’s why we are so fascinated by how fast this cheetah goes. But that cheetah goes for what less than a minute, and then they rest. And they don’t think about oh my gosh, I wish I would have jogged left instead of jogged right. And I don’t know if I can do it next time. And I’m not sure I have the courage and maybe I should ask somebody else what they think no, they just rest. Okay, what do we do? Well, I will rest on the weekend or everybody else leave at five. I’m going to stay and do the event tonight. Okay, well, first of all people are watching you. You can’t Don’t just burn yourself out and expect everyone else not to do the same thing. But the thing is, nature’s going to slow you down one way or the other, you have a choice, you’re going to be proactive and say, Nope, here’s what I need. Here’s how I manage my energy. resilience to me is about managing my energy. It’s not false positivity. It’s not Yeah, I’m good. I can totally do those three events on Friday night, and I’ll just bop around, can you No, you cannot, okay. And it’s also going to happen to one way or the other. So reactivity, proactivity, completely your choice. But you need to slow down, if you want to lead and have the impact you’re designed to have. And if you want to have other people around, you also do the same thing.

Brandon Burton 30:43
I love that. And I think for chamber leaders all over, I see them running constantly, whether it’s just in the office or at an event, but even after hours, you know, if they go out to eat with their family, they’re seeing people in the community and they’re constantly thinking work, they’re thinking the connections are, you know, trying to further the mission of the chamber, which it’s all you know, they good and honorable desires. But to avoid that burnout, and to really perform at your highest capacity, we need that that downtime, that respite time. And that’s, you know, for leaders, specifically, as you’re talking about in this book, but I’m thinking even your your membership salespeople, you know, they, they need that, because if they have any kind of commission structure, to their to memberships there, I mean, I’m a salesperson, you I understand sales, like you run, you run, you run. And I had this discussion this week, because of this book with with a sales rep that I said, you know, what, you’re running constantly, and you need to, you need to rest. And sometimes I think resting it, maybe you talked about not thinking about second guessing and everything. But I think some of that resting can come in the form of planning to some degree, not, not the big strategic plans, but maybe planning out your next day, or what you’re doing next week. Kind of on, let’s say lower level, brain power, but it’s not the high stress kind of brain power that you need to rest and to be able to perform it that the best of your ability. So I love that chapter. And, and especially, I think that was fitting to be the last chapter in the book, because you read through it, and you get all these great ideas about being a leader and like what you need to do to be like a sea cucumber, or a pelican or coral reef, or all these different things, I am gonna hit the ground running, and cycling hit, but I also need to rest. So it’s a good reminder.

Julie Henry 32:44
I’m still getting, you know, think of it like a bell curve. We spent all this time preparing and thinking and strategizing. And then we’re doing doing doing doing and then we just fall off a cliff. But it’s really a bell curve, like how do we ramp down? Like, are you checking your email, right, exactly. Soon after we get off this podcast like? Or can you take five minutes and like write down what you learned and reflect on it? Like you need to have a bell curve of your energy management, and then you’ll go back up. But it’s not a cliff. It’s a bell.

Brandon Burton 33:10
I love that those emails will wait for five minutes, they will I promise, they’ll still be there in five minutes. So take that time and jot down some notes. I love it. So Julie, as we start wrapping things up here, I wanted to ask you, if you might have maybe one tip or action item that you could share with chamber champions to help take their organization up to the next level.

Action Item/Tip for Chamber Champions

Julie Henry 33:34
You know, the one thing I would say to chamber champions is to pick one part, whether from well, you know, from this whole conversation or when they’re looking out, we tend to have all of these ideas and visions. And as you’re saying they are unique, because most of the time if not all of the time they’re living in the community that they are supporting. So they’re always on right. But what’s one action item that you can stop doing one action item that you can do a little more of and one action item, you can start completely in the next quarter. I like quarters because I think that’s a doable timeframe. Because you can see and measure progress. And the key to this is not only do you write down your goals, but just like I talked about with a mangrove method of change, you need to write where you are right now. So for example, if you want to stop checking emails immediately after every meeting that you get out of and you want to spend five minutes just thinking and decompressing before you check emails, then you need to write down. Alright, now I’m checking emails after I know it sounds silly, but I’m not kidding. Like if you want to run a marathon faster, the first thing you do is time how fast your mile is right now. If you want to lose 10 pounds, the first thing you do is get on a scale and see how much you actually weigh. So when we try to measure change in our personal leadership style, we go at it like that. I want to become a better leader. I want to become a better chamber professional. Oh my goodness, what does that actually mean? We have got to get specific and measurable. And it’s deeply personal. It’s deeply personal. And so pick achievable goals for you that makes sense to you. And maybe you won’t even end up on your annual review. And that is okay, is your personal journey.

Brandon Burton 35:19
That’s right. I love that. So one thing to stop one thing to do a little more of, and one thing to start brand new. I love that, too. So I know, chambers are always looking to the future says, as you look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see their future and purpose going forward?

Future of Chambers

Julie Henry 35:37
I would love chambers to continue to champion to use your word here. Their integral role of being a neutral place for people to convene, and have conversations that need to happen. So my analogy for this is when I used to run the Green Business Leadership Council, which was a committee of our local chamber was really important for me to create a space in which businesses felt safe, not necessarily comfortable. That’s always my marching order, right? But safe to come to the chamber and say, Gosh, I’m really struggling with how to do sustainability, my business right now, or I’m not sure if I should make this investment in, you know, the change in my restaurant or operations. But I know it’s better for my customers. But it’s not better for the bottom line right now. What are you doing? So how can people work together to affect change in the community, collectively? And I think chambers are unique in that position, because where else can businesses go and not feel like they’re either baring their soul or they’re going to get, you know, called on the carpet by somebody else? And maybe they don’t want to tell their customers yet or their stakeholders or even their employees, yet, they just need to have some thinking time first. And chambers are a convenient space. From my experience, in my opinion, it’s such a needed one. And so look to the future, what are the big things happening in your community, that you can step up and say, yeah, come talk at our place, like literally, here’s the space, or here’s a, here’s a neutral facilitator, or here’s a neutral listening person like that is so needed in order to continue advancing the communities, especially from diversity, equity, access inclusion, you all have these big hard topics that are happening. chambers have a unique role. And I know you can do it even better than you’re doing it now.

Brandon Burton 37:23
Absolutely. I love that, that look of the future. So Julie, I want to do to give you an opportunity to share any contact information with chamber champions, anyone who might want to reach out and connect with you or find your book. What’s the best way for them to reach out and connect?

Connect with Julie Henry

Julie Henry 37:41
Yeah, my website is JulieCHenry.com They can get on there shoot me an email. My email is also Julie@JulieCHenry.com It’s not all that creative, maybe. Yeah, you know, they can get my book anywhere their favorite local bookstore can order it if they don’t already have it. Or an Amazon has been in some airport bookstores with their you know, traveling again, and having some fun that might see it there as well. I’m on Instagram and LinkedIn both that Julie C Henry, and I would just love to you know, hear about what you’re doing and hear your plans for the future. Because it’s all exciting to me.

Brandon Burton 38:17
I love it. And we’ll get your contact information in our show notes for this episode as well. But I will say as you mentioned, finding the book in some airports and things like that it so it’s a leadership book, but it doesn’t feel like a leadership book, you know, says you read it the stories that you’re reading, they’re they’re real stories, they’re real parallels to life. And and that’s what I love about these analogies that I talked about at the beginning is the more familiar you are with them. You don’t need an in depth explanation to understand that an ostrich ostrich sticks its head in the sand to understand that metaphor, right? So the more familiar you are with these stories and the examples that Julie shares in this book, I think the better the leader you will be and being able to make those parallels in your life. So thank you, Julie. It’s been great having you on chamber chat podcast today that you provided a lot of value for the listeners and I hope everyone picks up your book and, and learns more about being a great leader from these laws of nature. Thank you.

Julie Henry 39:21
Thank you. It’s an honor to be on. And I hope everybody takes five minutes and goes outside today and asks a new question that you’ve never asked about nature and how that can help you be a better leader.

Brandon Burton 39:31
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Turn a Job You Like into a Career with Mark Eagan

Below is an auto-generated transcription of my conversation with Mark Eagan. Because this is auto-generated there are likely some grammatical errors but it is still a useful tool to search text within this podcast episode.

Feel free to join our Chamber Chat Champions Facebook Group to discuss this episode and to share your own experiences and tips with other Chamber Champions.

Introduction

Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.

Voiceover Talent 0:14
And now, your host he believes that a level of stress is necessary to provide the traction for life. He’s my dad, Brandon Burton.

Brandon Burton 0:22
Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to the Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your host, Brandon Burton, and it is my goal to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.

Our title sponsor for this episode is Holman Brothers Membership Sales Solutions. Is your chamber struggling to drive the revenue it needs to support your initiatives? It’s a common problem and one that our new title Holman Brothers Membership Sales Solutions knows a lot about Doug and Bill Holman aren’t just sales consultants. They’re real life chamber guys with 20 plus years of chamber leadership experience. They know how to diagnose and solve member recruiting issues faster and better than anyone else. And they’re ready to put that knowledge to work for you and your chamber. Call the Harmon Brothers today at 61985 to 1391. Or check them out at HolmanBros.com. That’s holmanbros.com.

Doug & Bill Holman know how to diagnose and solve
member recruiting issues faster and better than anyone else, and the want to put
that knowledge to work for you and your chamber. Learn more at HolmanBros.com.

Guest Introduction

Our guest for this episode is Mark Egan. Mark serves as president and CEO of the Capital Region Chamber and the center of economic growth based in Albany, New York. The Chamber and the Center for Economic Growth affiliate drive economic prosperity, with one voice one mission as one region. Mark began his Chamber career in 1987 and held executive posts with chambers in Mansfield, and Brockton, Massachusetts, and South Bend, Indiana. Prior to being recruited to New York’s Capital Region in 2008. He holds a bachelor’s degree from Stonehill College and a certificate and executive management from the University of Notre Dame. He’s an IOM at the University of Delaware and the Center for Creative Leadership is also earned his CCE designation. As Mark served as chairman of ACC and chaired his foundation and certified chamber executive commission. He serves on the US Chamber committees of 100. And as a past chair of the New York, Indiana and Massachusetts Association for Chamber of Commerce executives. And past chair of the Institute for organization Management Board of Regents has been recognized as chamber Executive of the Year both by the New England and the Indiana chamber executive associations. Mark, I’m excited to have you with me today here on chamber chat podcast. I appreciate you carving out some time to be with us today. And I’d love for you to take a moment to say hello to everyone out there listening and share something interesting about yourself. So you can get to know Mark Egan a little bit better.

Something Interesting About Mark

Mark Eagan 2:58
Well, terrific. Thanks for having me. And thanks for doing this program. It’s a great way to inform and inspire and connect us all over the country and different size communities, and how we can do our work with greatest impacts. So again, you thank you for you know, creating this, this forum. So you’ve probably heard through the you know, that that intro, I’ve been doing this for a long time, I can’t believe that, you know, that job out of college has now turned into 34 years later. But I guess the piece about myself as a relates to personal but also to sort of what we do for a living is, you know, I learned about business by the kitchen table, my dad ran a small business. So I learned about the struggles, but also really the rewards of of hard work. And I saw the relationships he had with other businesses in our community and what they’re able to do together. And I think, quite frankly, that’s sort of what spurred my original interest to get involved in chamber work.

Brandon Burton 4:03
Gave you a taste at a young age of what the power of a chamber could do. That’s awesome. Well take a moment to tell us a little bit more about the capital region’s chamber, kind of the size, scope, budget staff, that sort of thing and kind of set the table for our discussion for today.

About the Capital Region Chamber

Mark Eagan 4:21
Sure, well, I guess what I would say because of my career, I’ve been in chambers in all different sizes. So you know, some of you might be in a smaller community and you might hear what I when I say the size of our organization or budget, you might say well, this his comments are going to relate to me. And I really want I want to say is that you know, my my first chamber when I started I was the only employee and we had a budget of 100 $110,000. Our organization today that I work for has 32 employees. We have a budget of $7.3 million. We serve a Metro area a little over a million people. So, so I’ve, you know, gone through sort of the, all those phases of being the only employee or being in a couple community chamber to county chamber to a Regional Chamber and now more of a Metro Chamber. So hopefully some of my experiences can relate to everybody, no matter where they’re at.

Brandon Burton 5:26
Absolutely, you’ve definitely have seen the whole spectrum of chamber work. So for those listening, listening to what Mark has to say, because he’s he does come from experience from all different backgrounds and, and I think what he’s will share with us today is going to bring a lot of relevancy. Our the topic that we’re going to focus on today is specifically around the idea of taking a job that you love and turning it into a career or even a job that you just like and make it into a career. And I’m looking forward to getting into this discussion as Mark as soon as we get back from this quick break.

Topic-Turn a Job You Like into a Career

Alright, Mark, we are back as I kind of set the table before the break is we’re going to be talking about turning a job you like into a career, which is something that you’ve done successfully going from, you know that that chamber that you started with, with 110 members and, you know, to where you are now with the more of a Metro Chamber. I know I like having this kind of discussion with with chamber professionals, because very rarely does somebody get into the chamber world intentionally. Usually, it’s something you kind of fall into. You’d mentioned a little bit about seeing your dad as a small business owner, but why don’t we just start with with your your origins and chamber work and what made you fall in love with it.

Mark Eagan 8:09
So you know if remnants of my accent still give me away, I’m originally from Massachusetts, I live there now and 24 years or something like that, but some of that accent will never disappear. And I went to to those of you haven’t heard of Stonehill college, it’s it’s in Massachusetts. It’s a liberal arts college, they have these amount of business majors about 2500 students. And I, when I went there, I graduated in 1987. The economy was really strong. There recruiters on campus, I had multiple job offers before I graduated, and I walked across the stage to get my diploma with without a job. And I remember when I’d have an interview and have an offer my my dad would say, Well, why don’t you take it? And I’d say, well, didn’t really excite me. And you know, my dad grew up in a generation where, you know, I sort of joke the jobs were to provide not to excite. But it was literally it was two days before my graduation, I read this article in my hometown newspaper, about this new chamber of commerce that they had been, you know, it was had been grassroots developing, you know, members, and they had enough members to open an office and to begin to hire a staff. I thought, Boy, that sounds really interesting. And, you know, in my, in my clinical modality, they reached out to somebody who knew who was had been involved in helped create the chamber and they’re like, Oh, well, it’s a group but you know, we don’t really know where we’re going, what our focus is going to be we really don’t have any, you know, money to pay much and I thought this this sounds like such a cool opportunity. I had led a membership association. I know some sushi a club on campus and And so anyway, I throw my hat in the ring. I remember they used a local, like HR company and help sort of, you know, go through applicants and interview and they, you know, basically said to me, we’re gonna think we’re going to put you in the mix that’s going to see the board. But you know, basically you’re a longshot, because you know, you’re, you’re young, and you’re green. And, and, but we like to have a variety of candidates. And ultimately I get offered the job. But in quite frankly, I think part of it was, again, they didn’t have a lot of money, and I could be hired cheap right out of school, my starting salary was $15,000, in 1987. The, but they also, I think, they can see my passion. And they also knew I was from the local community, it was the chamber covered three different towns, I think they thought because I knew the community because again, my dad knew people that may be able to help them get members. So again, it just started as a job. But as a 22 year old, I literally had to, you know, go and pick out the you know, get get Office Furniture have the phones turned on, but it literally was a startup organization. They hadn’t. And I remember going to the first board meeting. And I said, you know, so what’s your first goal, and I said, my first goal is to get members went back the next month, Bobby, I said, I changed my first goal. We need to do something, we need to know why we exist. And why would someone want to be a member? And, and, and I remember, you know, you know, way back then, you know, used to having all these breaks through going through school. And then in college, I thought, how do you take this new job and get two weeks off. And you know, that kind of feel like I’m in jail. And and I remember my first year, I literally other than a few days and get away one time during the winter, I didn’t take any time off. Because I was just so excited by the work we were doing and what we were trying to what we’re trying to build. And again, to your point, it was, you know, still a job, but was a job that I felt like I really was I was enjoying and I could see sort of the rewards not just for me, but more importantly, for the businesses that we were we’re working with. So you know, a lot of times, chambers will work together. And sort of in that part of Massachusetts, we had this informal group, where we would we’d get together, I think it was quarterly with the execs and then certain number of times a year, we’d actually bring in a volunteer leader.

And the, again, I was three years into the job, there was a chamber that was nearby, that again, we were three years old, at that time that the Chamber I think was 77 years old. You know, by the time I left the chamber, we had a little over 300 members, this organization about 750 members that their exact was leaving. And one of those volunteers who had seen me at those meetings, reached out to me and said, we have an opening, do you think you want to be a candidate? And I thought, Well, again, this is going to be a stretch because I’m still this young guy that I have this experience here. But they saw something in me and and and I was hired. And that’s where I grew my skill sets in a whole different way. And I went from just you know, three suburban towns to an old urban city industrial city that had a lot of challenges, as well as the neighboring communities. So the lawn but I’ll I’ll take a

Brandon Burton 13:46
take a little pause there and kind of backtrack a little bit. It sounds like you’re a quick learner, you have to change your first goal. On the SIR early on to getting members to really saying Hold on, we need to figure out what our mission and vision is to get people to get excited about what we’re doing. But I’m curious in those first three years, how did you learn to run a chamber? How did you well, who did you rely on? Did you have mentors that sounded like you’re part of a regional group of other chambers. But what were some of those outlets and resources that you relied on?

Mark Eagan 14:22
A great question. And I remember just describing myself as a sponge, literally. That’s what I felt I was just soaking in from everybody. I could learn from a lot of my neighboring chambers, right nearby or other chambers in the state. So I started my job and July. And so again, I reached out to some chambers nearby to start with. I remember in January was the first state association meeting I went to, which was a big deal for me to sort of get real sort of professional development. And I remember then the that, that someone said to me, are you going to go to institute. And of course, my response was what’s Institute, I had never even heard of it. And particularly at that time, it was sort of a standard that most chamber folks did. Today, depending on the size of the chamber, it’s I don’t know, it’s as prevalent today as it was, you know, in the 80s. But as soon as I knew about it, my goal was to go and to find out, find a way to, you know, to find enough money for to pay the, you know, the, the tuition and all that to go. And because I was in the northeast, back, then it was in Delaware. And, and I remember, you know, back then you used to get materials that you had to read, and you have to use it to do a written test. And, and I remember, some of those materials I read a couple of times before I even went to institute because it was again, I was like, oh my god here, this is like someone to tell me how to do this. And back then I thought that there were things we were, when an idea would come forward by volunteers, sometimes I would call on, you know, sort of one of the deans in the area, to say, you know, can we do that, because I thought there was things that we could do and couldn’t do, and I realized, you can do anything. It’s really what’s the needs of your community, and you have the capacity to deliver. So it was really those, those those folks that took me under their wing, had a huge impact, and helping shape me. And then, you know, my connections that when I went to institute, I got to meet people that weren’t just from my state are really from the Northeast region, the country, and then it just continued to grow over the years.

Brandon Burton 16:50
So you went from the, this the original chamber, the smaller, you know, where you’re the, you know, the the chief cook, and bottle washer and doing everything, you’re doing the membership sales, managing the office manager, retention, the whole shebang, right. And then you get this new opportunity at a new chamber that expands your I guess, available skill set. So you had to learn some new skills, you had to learn how to manage people, you had to learn, you know, the probably a larger scope maybe of what that chamber covered. So what was that transition, like with the with this next step?

Mark Eagan 17:33
It was, it was a big one. Because, you know, I again, the the, the tri John chamber was my first chamber, again, because the three towns so as a creative name. And so as myself and I had a part time, like, administrative assistant, and we had like a contract kind of membership person, by the time I left, then the chamber I went to, I can’t remember the exact number of employees when I got there, I want to say five or six. But I think what happened for me at that next chamber was the first chamber, we were very much focused, I would say, as a, as a member of benefits organization, you know, our sort of whole programme of work was programs, you know, what are you registered to go to? It was, you know, pretty sort of transactional. And then go into my, to the second immunity. And as I mentioned, it was a, you know, you had a city of about 100 and 1000 people in the surrounding communities, and the city was on a decline. So part of it was how do you use the strength of the business community to help turn the community around? So that was probably when I started to realize that the chamber was more than an organization to serve its members, or an organization to help strengthen the community. And I guess the thing I would just say that sort of in addition to it, I always look to say, how do I keep one at that point, I realized, Okay, well, this is great, but who knows, someday I might want to be somewhere else and do something else. And so I remember it was I think it was my first ACC first ACC meeting I went to, and there were these. There weren’t even like breakouts because the conference was different back then. But it was like this optional sessions, you could go to sort of in your free time. Free time, and I went to this session about tourism. And one of my friends said, What the hell you go into that one on tourism from your community, you’re in, you know, does nothing in tourism. And I said, but I don’t know if the next community I might want to go to might have tourism. So I need to learn those skills today. And then, you know, long story short, when I did move to South Bend, Indiana A component of the chamber there was the Convention Visitors Bureau, we had six or seven staff people who just worked on tourism. So that was the example how’s it goes full circle?

Brandon Burton 20:12
Yeah. And if you’re already at the conference and the the informations being shared, why not be there be that sponge because you never know what that next opportunity is going to be. And, and for those listening, it may be something you decided to try to implement at your own organization that you’re that you’re currently at, and talk to your board about and say, Does this make sense for our community? But it sounds like I was going to ask you at what point did you realize, gee, this isn’t just a job, like, this is a career I’m going to be in this for the long haul. Sounds like it might have been then when you started kind of broaden the scope and think, you know, further down the road, is that accurate?

Mark Eagan 20:50
Yeah, I yeah, I think it is, you know, I was I, when I was at the, what’s called the mountain, it’s called the Metro South chamber, which is in Brockton, Massachusetts, about 27 miles south of Boston. And I realized that I felt like, I felt like I was getting into a routine there. And I was there for, and I was there for a little over seven years. And I said, I, I’m not comfortable with the routine. And so I said, Okay, I need to decide, am I going to look for another chamber job? Or am I gonna look for a different job. And I, you know, born and raised in Massachusetts, was always very close to, to, to my, you know, immediate family, my folks, my siblings. And but I realized, if I was really going to have a be my career, I couldn’t just say, Well, what other chamber might open up within, you know, a 30 mile radius. And so I, again, things are a little bit different today than they were back then. That was before, you know, larger chambers and higher search firms. There was a guy who used to work for the US Chamber, well being and said, Have you ever thought of living in the Midwest? And my response was what? And he said, You know, there’s he goes, there’s an opening in South Bend, Indiana. And he goes, when they described who they are, and the kind of leader they thought they might need, because I thought of you. And, and my first thought was my own literally, my only experience in the Midwest was changing planes at O’Hare, I literally had not been to any of the offices people refer to as the flyover communities. I thought, you know, what, I should probably explore this. And I did. Again, that was a huge step. Not just personally from the whole geography side, and sort of moving away from home. But the organization was significantly larger than where I was at. You know, the staff that I had at the Metro South chamber, I think we were seven people. There were 22 people on the staff itself, and it was going with nothing was familiar. You know, I didn’t know the community knew any of those things. So it’s really a test to say, Have I developed these skills, when I can go somewhere where I literally know nobody, but can, you know, develop sort of do community assessment, build skills, build relationships, and help maybe bring the chamber and the organization in the community to, to a different level, and it’s funny, I remember on my I was a newlywed going through that process. And I went out for my final interview, and my wife, they wanted her to come. And so we did a tour, we did do a dinner with volunteers, and she had a column and the next day, I was going to have interviews for the half of the day. And I remember when I left the hotel in the morning, that she said, Well, what do you think’s going to happen? I said, Well, this is the piece and I said, you know, I guess, you know, the next day, probably get a call saying, you know, they’ll debrief whatever. Well, I could walk from where the chamber office was to where the hotel were saying, I get back to the hotel room. And I said to her, then go away, I thought and she has what didn’t go well. It didn’t know they offered me the job right then. And, and, and I remember all these emotions going through me. And, and I thought through it, I said to her, Can you see any reason for me not accepting this job, other than it’s not Massachusetts? And she said, I can’t. And I said, I can’t either. I said, so if I don’t take this job. It means I’m going to look I’m going to leave chamber work, because I really can’t I can’t continue to grow in chamber work if I’m not willing to really make a big move. Obviously, the know you already know the rest of the story I, I took the leap. And, you know, my two children were both born there. And I, you know, had the pleasure of working in South Bend four and a half years.

Brandon Burton 25:19
Wow. So as you tell the story, it sounds like there’s a couple decision points. And and I think it’s probably similar to a lot of people’s career path where, you know, one decision point was making that choice to take on more learning, whatever level it is, but taking in stuff that you maybe don’t currently need. But then the big one is to open up the opportunity, or the idea of moving outside the area to be able to continue your career. How does that, uh, I know, everyone’s different in their, you know, their, their home life status, you had mentioned you were a newlywed at the time? How do you go about that conversation with I mean, it’s a big move. Some, some people have children at this point in their career. So you’re dealing with schools and everything, but what kind of advice would you have with the, with those kinds of discussions?

Mark Eagan 26:21
Well, you know, I think everyone’s different. And you and you have to say, you know, okay, you know, again, I totally push myself out of my comfort zone. One, just because the chamber and the size and the scope and all of that, but then again, the geographic piece. So you have to do what you know, you have to think it, read your own tea leaves. And I And again, I think the timing of children is important. You know, I think for most of us, you don’t want to make a move when your kids are probably a high school, if you can help it. You know, when when, when we made the move, when we move to, to Auburn, in New York, my kids were then in first and third grade. So again, it was ages that were easy, easier to adjust. And again, that was the move was, you know, for the sort of getting the opportunity that was there. But also the nice benefit was, you know, where the majority of our family is, we were 14 hours away for them. And now when we moved to New York, we’re two and a half hours away for them. So that was a nice added bonus to it. The thing I would also say if, you know, I have been so impressed of, you know, my colleagues that I’ve known for a long, long time, who maybe have chosen, not not because they were stuck, but they were chosen to stay in the same community for you know, 2030 years. And, and I give them a lot of credit, because, you know, in most cases, the reason they’ve been able to do so is they keep reinventing themselves. They don’t just sort of retire there and not tell people so go to work every day, you know, they challenge themselves that they meet the needs. And, you know, and you know, in for me, you know, while I’ve moved, I haven’t moved very much, you know, I’m only in my fourth chamber in 34 years. Yeah,

Brandon Burton 28:11
I think that’s a good point to make with. Some people choose to move Chambers as they develop their career in chamber world and others will stay in the same community they started with and stay at the same chamber for 30 or 40 years. But the you hit the key there is they keep reinventing themselves keep reinventing what the offerings are that the Chamber has to offer. And, and I’m sure they can see a similar path to when they first started at their chamber 30 or 40 years prior, and then, you know, towards the end of their career, to see how their chamber has grown because of the things they’ve learned and implemented and they didn’t just stay stagnant. So I think that’s cool

Mark Eagan 28:54
that we as Atari just personally, but I think even for our organizations, to fulfill its mission, we have to be willing to sort of challenge the status quo. And, and I guess what I’d say to folks that are watching and listening, again, who we’re all different sort of sized communities is the thing that I remember years ago, again, when I would, you know, read an article through ACC, or I would go to a conference or a state association meeting. You know, again, going back does really oftentimes, I was one of the smallest communities there. But I used to try to listen to what some of the larger communities were doing and saying, Hey, how does this relate to what we’re doing? And can I just scale it all back to a level? I think that was part of what some of the successes were able to have and part of the reason that I have grown, so I wouldn’t, you know, encourage all my colleagues to do that. Don’t look at something and say well, because we’re suburban, and their, you know, their city or because, you know, we have three staff and they have seven staff or whatever. I think that we can learn from each other we can we can grow together. And it’s really how can we have, you know, impact to strengthen businesses? And then how can those businesses, because they’re helping create jobs, create better opportunity for the people who live in our communities?

Brandon Burton 30:17
Absolutely. I love the idea of just being open minded as you don’t shut down ideas because the chamber that you’re hearing them from as much larger as a bigger budget or more staff, think, How can I take something an idea that I like, How can I implement it, maybe it includes a strategic partnership with an another organization in your community, maybe it involves outsourcing. So I mean, the opportunities are limitless, if you can be creative and stay open minded to Western. So I like that we’re having this discussion. Right now, as we’ve kind of worked through this COVID pandemic, we’ve seen a pretty large exit, I would say, of people in the chamber industry, either retiring or maybe going into private sector work. And that means there’s opportunities, there’s openings for new people to kind of fill these voids that are new to chamber world. So I’d like to ask you what would be maybe one piece of advice that you would have for somebody who’s just now getting into chamber work to maybe explore the idea of actually making it a career, not just a holdover job until something else better comes but to really fall in love with it and make it a career? What would you what would you have to say?

Mark Eagan 31:38
If you’re if you’re new, I guess I would go on from my experiences, going back to that analogy of the sponge, you know, try to soak in as much as you can. You, you know, in through the years, it’s not just learning from other callings, but, you know, learning from the volunteer leaders that we work with. And I have, you know, you also learn from the people that you don’t like what they do, and you learn what you don’t want to do. You know, I remember, you know, years ago, when back when I was still in my 20s, and, you know, one of my colleagues who sometimes, you know, would, you know, get so full of himself, and I would, you know, say to somebody, you know, forever like that shoot me. And because, you know, I think we have to realize that, you know, you know, the work that we do is important, but you know, we’re not the chamber, you know, we have the privilege of working there. But, you know, I, I hope that each of those chambers, I worked out that I had an impact while I was there, but none of them went out of business when I left. And, but I think that is we work together as a team and our community can make a big difference. And, you know, there’s opportunities I’ve had, you know, what, I’ve had folks in the private sector try to get me to leave and go to work for them. And really, what I’ve tried to ask myself is, you know, can I think of another career where I think I would find it satisfying? And that I could impact so many different people? You know, and I, the answer is I haven’t been able to, and that’s why I’m, you know, I’m still doing this every day. Yeah, during the pandemic, there were times where, you know, to say, Geez, how many more years before I can retire? But the reality is, you know, you know, recently somebody was talking about it, and I said, Well, you know, I, I started to work quite a few more years. But I said, even if I didn’t have to, I’m not ready to retire yet. You know, it still really energizes and motivates and inspires me every day.

Brandon Burton 33:45
So I love that answer. I wanted to ask you, since you have been at a variety of different chambers, you’ve seen the scope of the spectrum. Maybe, you know, a tip or an action item that you can offer to somebody listening that who may be trying to take their own their chamber up to the next level, what would be a piece of marking and advice?

Action Item/Tip for Chamber Champions

Mark Eagan 34:12
I guess I’d say is, you know, by looking look through my development over the years, a lot of it ties to my colleagues. Some of my closest personal friends are folks who I met, you know, over the last 30 years, and they’re in lots of different states. And in even in a we haven’t seen each other as much because of the pandemic, but we’ll still have the zoom call that we’re, you know, together. Because as we know, there’s nobody else in our community that does exactly what we do. So I wouldn’t, you know, encourage you to develop that network. It could be again, the Chamber next door, but it could be a chamber across the country. Somebody that you click with, you know, personally and professionally, if you haven’t yet plugged into whether it’s, you know, whatever your budget is, and leave him in school and your state association, or if you can go to institute, if it’s the right program for you, ACC, you know, even if you, you know, don’t have the budget to ever go to a program to go to their convention, you know, for a pretty minor investment, just to have access to all the tools and resources that are on their website. There’s so many best practices, you can’t just take it and duplicate it at your organization. But as I said earlier, you can take it and adapt it to the needs of your community and your membership.

Brandon Burton 35:39
Absolutely. So I like asking this question to everyone that I have on the show is, as we all look to the future of chambers, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward?

Future of Chambers

Mark Eagan 35:55
You know, I guess what I’d say is, is, if we can all think back to why did chambers originally get formed? I think over the years science where we’ve evolved to isn’t why we got created. So you know, to my earlier comment about, you know, being a member of benefits organization, or is the purpose broader than that. And yes, without members, we couldn’t do our work, you know that we’re a membership based organization. But I think our mission can be more than serving our members. Because if it’s just coming to us, because of an educational programming or networking program, a for profit company can do that. But But if we look at it, and say, it’s really about strengthening the economic and social well being of our communities, we’re at a unique intersection to be able to do that. And there’s probably no one that can do it, as well as our chamber, whether we’re a community of 10,000 people, or a metro of millions of people. So I think if we focus on that bigger mission, you know, chambers are going to be here for a long time. But if we just that transactional organization, I think that that folks can question. You know, really what I direct value is,

Brandon Burton 37:17
I love that answer. I think, as the world changes around us that that core reason as to why a chamber exists is still to strengthen and develop their community. And I think that purpose becomes even stronger. As the world becomes more digital and money flows different ways. It’s even more of a reason to have a strong core within the community to build it and bring people together. So thank you for that. So Mark, as we wrap things up here, I wanted to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for anyone who might want to reach out and connect with you about, you know, your career or anything you had to share with us today. What would be the best way for for someone to reach out Connect?

Connect with Mark Eagan

Mark Eagan 38:00
Yes, feel free. And I can I can put my email in here if I’m doing it with my glasses on. So hopefully, I don’t have a typo. Yeah.

Brandon Burton 38:12
And I’ll put them in the show notes as well.

Mark Eagan 38:15
So it’s meagan@capitalregionchamber.com. Feel free to send me an email if there’s a question or the resource that I can point you to if you want to set up a time and do a conversation, I’d be happy to do it. And my direct line, it’s 518-431-1424.

Brandon Burton 38:37
That’s perfect. And again, like I said, I will get this in our show notes for this episode, which will be at chamber tat podcast.com/episode 155. Mark, thank you so much for spending time with me today here on chamber chat podcast. I think what you provided is a lot of value to those listening, especially those who may just be getting into the chamber world. Mark is a great resource and, you know, a wealth of experience and knowledge. So hopefully everyone was being a sponge and soaking this up. But thank you, Mark, for being with us today.

Mark Eagan 39:09
Well, thanks for the invitation and thanks for all that you do.

Brandon Burton 30:28
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