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Brandon Burton 0:00
This is the Chamber Chat Podcast, the show dedicated to chamber professionals to spark ideas and to get actionable tips and strategies to better serve your members and community.
Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to the Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your host, Brandon Burton. And it’s my goal to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community.
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Brandon Burton 1:44
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Our guest for this episode is Jeremy Arthur. Jeremy currently serves as the executive director of the government and Economic Development Institute at Auburn University. He serves as the chief administrative executive responsible for the total operations of the organization that provides guidance training, professional development, leadership, community development, research and Civic Engagement endeavors across the state of Alabama. Jeremy began his career at the Economic Development Institute at Auburn University and then went on to serve as president of the Pratt Ville Area Chamber of Commerce in Alabama, where he led community development initiatives economic development efforts, tourism plans, and many other programs. Most recently, he served as the president and CEO of the Chamber of Commerce association of Alabama, and represented all the local chambers of commerce across the state providing guidance training, professional development and leadership and advocacy. He serves on several boards and organizations on the national level state and regional levels, both it within communities and in the chamber industry as well. But Jeremy is a two time Auburn University graduate and is currently a PhD candidate in public administration and public policy. He also holds the CCE designation, which is held by less than 4% of chamber executives nationally. Jeremy, I’m excited to have you with us today on Chamber Chat Podcast. I know you’ve been on my radars, as we talked about before we got on the recording for some time. And it’s great to finally have you on the show. So love for you to say hello to all the chamber champions and share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you better.
Jeremy Arthur 3:43
Hey, Brandon, thanks for having me. Absolutely. I love the term chamber champion, because that’s exactly what Chamber of Commerce executives, professionals and leadership are they are champions to me. I lived in that world for a long time, I still get to play in that world now. Even though I have moved back into higher education, but, uh, thank you for what you do and the service that you provide, just to connect chambers and really celebrate them. It’s been great. I have loved my chamber career, again, ran up to about 1000 member chamber for about 10 years, the largest suburb right outside our State Capitol in Alabama, in Brattleboro and then went on for another eight, nine years to run our State Chamber association 120 chambers in the state. So I’ve done a little bit of everything from lobbying to leading to training to serving to you name it, so put those hats on, so many of your listeners do every day. And I will know that so it’s fun. It’s great to be with you. And thanks for having me.
Brandon Burton 4:47
Absolutely. So yeah, you’ve got you’ve got a little bit of experience over your career of doing you know, touching on all these different areas of work. So currently me So tell us a little bit more. I mean, you touched on the panel chamber and, you know, leading the chamber association there in Alabama. Tell us a little bit more about your current work, the University of Auburn and your current position as Executive Director of Government Economic Development Institute, what what does that entail? What does your work look like these days? Right.
Jeremy Arthur 5:21
So really, it expanded my scope and scale of work to add the government piece. So I would say essentially, we’re a training institute. So we do whether in the government arena, whether you’re an elected official, whether you’re an appointed official, whether you’re a merit employee, or when a bureaucrat, and I don’t use that term negatively, that just means someone who works for the government who has a career in the government. We do all sorts of certifications, accreditations career trajectory, basically, professional development, continuing education, all of those things, county commissioners, probate judges, and then whether you work at the DMV, or that you’re a tax assessor, we run all them on the government side of the house. And then our economic development side of the house still keeps me connected to the local Chambers of Commerce. We have certification programs, for chambers for chamber execs, for economic developers all in that arena. So I’ll lump that in and call that community development. And then that even touches on tourism that touches on hospitality. So all those quality of life issues, but then also the professional execution of those duties. That’s what we do at our office as the Training Institute, we have a research arm, because obviously, we’re an institute of higher education. And so we do some publications, looking at issues facing Alabama, that really transcend from one end of the state to the other that a lot of our chambers in the state are trying to tackle that really are issues across the country, whether we’re looking at inflation, whether we’re looking at Medicaid, expansion, Medicare, whether we’re looking at prison, population, education, etc. So that’s a little bit about what we do. And then we offer some community assistance projects partner with a lot of folks to just try to increase wealth and increase training, we do some entrepreneurship, training for businesses, very involved in Main Street. So again, all that is going to bring very clear with chambers steel.
Brandon Burton 7:16
Absolutely. And I appreciate you given that background and in the work that you’re involved with now, because I know, I know, when you announced that you were leaving the chamber to go back to the universe out there. I know there’s a little bit of heartache amongst the chamber professionals, like Jeremy’s leaving, but he’s not right. He’s just he’s not employed at a chamber directly. But he’s still very involved with with chamber work and community development, as he just explained. So the he’s still here, he’s still connected, and he’s on the show today to provide some of that knowledge for us. So thank you, you are too
Jeremy Arthur 7:49
kind. I appreciate that. Some of my literally my best friends I have made through this profession, all over the country. And so I’m very blessed and appreciative of
Brandon Burton 8:00
them. Absolutely. So as we get into our discussion, our topic or area of focus for our discussion today is going to be around governance. And I know you know, people across the country chamber professionals, they may have heard you talk and present on governance at different conferences and so forth. But there’s a lot that haven’t yet. And even for those that have this may be a good you know, good thing to be able to earmark and their podcast player and go back and listen to it again and and reference it often. So I’m excited to get into this conversation with you as soon as I get back from this quick break.
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Donna Novitsky 10:23
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Brandon Burton 11:18
Alright, Jeremy, we’re back. As I mentioned before the break, I know you’ve you’ve presented on governance a lot. So as far as the topic matter goes, I would definitely default to you as far as what what to cover here. But I’d like to just hand the mic over to you and maybe talk about what are some of those key things as the chamber looks at governance and how they work, you know, in connection with the board, and where are those areas of responsibility lie? What are some of those key factors that chambers need to be mindful of, and in running a successful organization?
Jeremy Arthur 11:58
Brandon, I know we laugh. And we started this, I said, it’s hard to make this topic sexy. As much as you said, you know, the evidence is just not that flashy, you know, set the world on fire. But to me, it is critical because you’ve got to get your internal house in order before you can build your external house. And really the sound governance structure is necessary at all levels of the organization, we certainly apply it to the boards or the council’s or our governing authorities that we serve, typically elected about our membership, but really it stretches out to our volunteers what they should know, and how they can support and help with our own governance issues. And then certainly there are key documents that people don’t even think about or related to governments, to governance as a whole. You know, I would start by saying there’s some some board basics and and you’re right, I’ve been blessed. I’ve worked in 14 states. And I just finished one in Virginia two weeks ago, doing board retreats and board orientations and working on government’s governance strategies, I was very fortunate to teach and still also chair, the United States Chamber of Commerce Institute for organization management board of trustees. And so I finished that year before last as chair and so taught at all the institute sites and, you know, I work with ACCA, and, and all of our partners and so I’ve done about 300, I think plus of these, and really, it’s if you start fundamentally, it’s it’s with duties. And so when you’re looking at governance, it’s the duty of care. That means as a volunteer leader of an organization, as a board member, let’s say that you are going to make all the decisions you can based on the material that’s available to you and the information that you have, so that you can make a decision in good faith, using the best judgment, you have to reach a reasonable conclusion. So that’s the fundamental definition I think that we’re dealing with. And then subsequent things duty of loyalty, you know, you want to protect the interests of the chamber that you’re serving, don’t do any harm or injury to it. And then I would say you’ve got to review and approve function. So that’s a primary function of a board or a governance entity, where you’re looking at all things relating to the organization to the chamber, the mission, the vision, the strategic plan, the budget, you know, policies and procedures, all of those internal workings. And we’ll talk about bylaws, I’m sure later one of the key governance documents, but then just overseeing those and making sure you’re compliant. And then I guess, kind of maybe two or three more, you’re going to select the board really hires and fires or evaluates the chief staff person. So whether that’s an executive director or President CEO, and then that chief staff person hires and fires evaluates the rest of the staff and
So that’s a key component for them. And then I guess the last piece, I would just say, in basics is that they’re just monitoring the organization and the performance of the board themselves. It’s self governance, it’s peer accountability. So again, being ethical, being fair, being transparent, avoiding conflicts of interest, working for the best interest of the organization, setting that strategic direction, that’s all fundamentally, what a board should be doing. Now, how do you do that? Well, you know, there’s, I would say, there’s,
Brandon Burton 15:38
that’s what we have here for today. So
Jeremy Arthur 15:41
first and foremost, you always hear me talk about the mission statement. And so that is really who you are. It’s usually brief. And it really does guide the actions of the chamber, it states your overall purpose, why you exist, it’s supposed to give you a sense of direction and help guide your decision making. Most of maybe you don’t know it is required by the IRS to have a mission statement. It can be changed, but it’s submitted annually. Certainly, you know, most people are probably familiar with the form 990, but form 1023, or 1024. And again, it really does guide you and that’s what I was gonna say, if you’re doing things that are outside of your mission statement, to me, that’s a red flag, you’ve kind of got that mission drift or that mission creep. You know, fundamentally, I guess, just to organize, you got to have articles of incorporation in most states, and whether that’s done with the Secretary of State’s office, or whether that’s done with the Department of Commerce or whatever. It’s just a legal document that allows you to organize, state your purpose, usually register as a nonprofit, in most cases, a C six above a one C six, which again, is just a tax designation. It really just kind of defines your purpose related to kind of state government. And then I think the key document is your bylaws. There’s a reason if you look at that word, it is by law, though it is your set of rules that you agree, the good thing about it is, most states give you some sort of nonprofit statute to follow. But you’ve set your own rules. It’s how you’re in relation, how you work with your members, how you work with your investors, your partners, and it governs and relates, and regulates your internal structure. So it’s how you do business there. It’s kind of typically broad and very general. But it’s your procedures for your meetings, it’s your boards, it’s how you select your board. It’s how you amend the bylaws, and you know, those kinds of things, all those steps that kind of govern you internally. But please make sure you do what are in it, what’s in that document. And we’ll talk about that, because that is the surefire way. In theory, well, really, in practice, if you violate those bylaws, and it’s pointed out, you can lose your nonprofit status. And so that’s a downer in an overall upbeat Chamber Chat Podcast. But that’s how serious this is. And so, you know, I’ve seen bylaws that, that haven’t been updated in 30 years, you know, that were the original set of bylaws when the chamber was organized. And it still says, you know, we’re going to notify our members of our annual meeting 10 days prior to the meeting via the United States Postal Service, and you know, all those kinds of things and just sort of outdated and it really needs to be updated, refreshed. In fact, our best practice I would say with your bylaws is we instituted an operations committee that meets every third year, because that’s how our board rotation was that theoretically, we could have a third of our board members new every three years. And so this just took an operations operational approach to say we’re just gonna look at all of our operating documents and make sure we’re following them, make sure they’re up to date, make sure they’re current and making helping us meet our mission. And then that leads you know, your policies and procedures, make sure you know policies are not procedures. For example, the policy may be any check over $2,000 has to have two signatures Okay, that’s the policy. The procedure is then the CEO signs it the treasurer signs it you know, it’s been processed through this account, etc. So make sure you know, those are really consistent, but that they also mesh with the bylaws and that none of these documents conflict. You’ve probably got a strategic plan and outlines your your goals and your objectives what you’re trying to do. If you think about it, your budget is even a governance document, because it is your income and expenses. It’s approved by the board. It’s documented oftentimes with line items. And then if you’ve got sort of an annual work plan, I guess that’s kind of the final document in my mind. Just how you can track your progress. Are we meeting our goals? are we implementing the strategic plan? And here’s how we’re doing that? Are we including those performance measures and responsibilities? And are we are the goals in place to help us accomplish that? So all those things are kind of in a solid governance structure model? I guess.
Brandon Burton 20:40
So as you went through a lot of these different documents, these as pieces of the structure, is he talking about budget, and to me that that seems like a commonplace thing to you know, you review your budget on a regular basis, call it a monthly basis, make sure your income expenses are what you expect, and there’s not any surprises coming up. And I know a lot of chambers, they look at their strategic plan, maybe on a three or five year basis, but then review it annually to make sure they’re staying on track. Any guidance as far as how often to be reviewing a mission plan or a mission statement? Or you mentioned the bylaws? You know, maybe the suggestion was every three years, maybe depending on the structure of your, your board and your organization? But correct, what are some of these maybe good practices for keeping these things up to date and making sure that you’re staying on course,
Jeremy Arthur 21:37
that’s why we codified it in our bylaws, you know, if you put a committee in your bylaws, and that committee has to meet. And so that’s why we said, Okay, we’re gonna make sure that this committee meets and ours happens to meet every third year it could meet annually. to really look at it, I mean, I wouldn’t envision that the total direction of a chamber would change that often. I mean, you can get some broad language and a mission statement. But I put the mission statement at the top of every single one of our board agendas, because it gives us focus. And really, I would challenge our board, the boards that I’ve worked for, to say before you make a motion, read that mission statement, and is the action that you’re proposing to obligate the chamber to fulfill, can you find a place for it in that mission statement. And to me, that’s the ultimate way to prevent mission drift or mission creep, and keep you focused on what the task is at hand. Again, the mission statement is your very purpose for being I’m a big fan of moving things into consent agendas, if they don’t require action of the board. But there are board reports that the board needs to be aware of, you know, being a board member is an active process. And it requires an obligation on both parts. And not only the professional staff, of which I was and your listeners probably are. But if you’re a board member, it also requires you to participate and read the things that are sent to you because again, you’re the governing authority. And so if there’s no action item, but it’s important, so that you know the work of the chamber, put it in the consent agenda that requires one motion, again, and it can be voted on that way. And it really streamlines your board meetings, you know, right. And I’ve always said, serving on the chamber board should be a positive experience. And I know when I facilitate a lot of these, I will oftentimes in fact, I think I’ve said it in probably everyone. If the serving on the chamber board is not a positive experience for you, there is no harm, no foul, in bowing out. And for whatever reason, you may have personal circumstances that have changed professional circumstances that have changed, or you’ve just lost the passion. That’s okay. Our lives are constantly changing. And I promise you, you’re not doing that chamber of favor, by hanging on to that board position, just step back for a little bit, we’ll replace you and let’s reconsider you in the future. That’s a hard decision, sometimes a hard discussion, but it shouldn’t be. Because again, you want what’s best for the organization. The leadership wants what’s best for the organization. And so I think we need to really take a look at that. But going back to that mission statement, and those really, if a Motion is made, that’s going to obligate the chamber into an action, make sure it lines up and doesn’t violate your bylaws is within your scope and your scale and really follows your mission statement. So I think that’s some actionable takeaways. Hopefully.
Brandon Burton 24:39
Absolutely. And as you talk about board members and being actively engaged with the board, I think for any any chamber listening to be mindful of that too, as you recruit board members to think is this somebody who has that bandwidth to be actively engaged or is it a status symbol, you know, for them to be on the board?
Jeremy Arthur 25:02
Are they checking a box right? In front of I’m a huge proponent of written job responsibilities and roles for a board member. Give that perspective board member a job description, I’ll send you a sample reach out to me. I mean, there are tons of samples you can Google on, ACCE has tons of samples. Again, to me, it’s the highest compliment and utmost show of respect. Because I’m asking you, here’s what I need from you, potential prospective board member. Here’s the time commitment I’m asking for. Here’s the potential financial commitment I’m asking for. Here’s the attendance requirement that I’m asking for, here’s what I need you to do. Can you objectively look at that, and say, I can do it. Now also, in that job description, is what the chamber Exec is going to provide to you. I’m going to be respectful of your time, I’m going to make sure that our board meetings only last an hour, I’m going to make sure that I’m really seeking your input and your guidance, and I’m not just providing a report to you, I need your I need your expertise, I need you to lead for me. So it is you know, it’s a two way street. But to me, it’s the ultimate show of professionalism and respect so that a prospective board member could determine whether they can say yes or no. And then also during their term, they can continue to evaluate if they’re able to meet that job, responsibility, write it down. It’s not meant to be overly legalistic or, you know, you didn’t do this or you didn’t do that. It’s just again, an agreement of how we need to move forward together.
Brandon Burton 26:42
Right. And like you said, it goes both ways. And I can picture you know, most board members are busy people, there’s some of the busiest people in the community. Right, right, right, you don’t want the person who’s just looking for time to fill, right? Correct. So it says you have busy people on your board, and you’re recruiting busy people, you need to be able to give them some kind of an outline. Otherwise, you’re just saying, hey, we want you on your on our board. And then as you have things come up, you’re getting frustrated, because they’re not responding in a timely manner, or they’re not meeting your expectations. Because you’ve never shared what those expectations were to begin with to see if it was reasonable for them. So I think that is a key point to to apply in your recruiting of board members. Are there other I’m sure there are there are other things that we need to make sure listeners are considering when it comes to governance at their chamber and, and working well with their board and in. And specifically, I’m thinking towards the bylaws and making sure it’s not a fun thing, right to go back and read through your bylaws over? Absolutely. At the same time, you know, animals think of it as is a quite literally a religious practice, right? So that’s somebody in religion, you have your book a scripture, you have your Bible or whatever, you don’t just read a passage of scripture once and then forget about it, right? Someone who’s religious goes back to those scripture passages over and over to ingrain it and make it be part of them. And I see the bylaws kind of being something similar, where you need to go back to it often to become ingrained as part of you and your regular practice.
Jeremy Arthur 28:22
That’s the perfect analogy. And it is incumbent upon really staff more so than board, although it’s applicable to the board, because that’s the rules they follow. But it’s really on you as staff to make sure you’re doing that. And that’s why it’s just good to review them. Again, I think as a as an exec in a chamber, you got to know those bylaws like you said forward, backward, upward, downward, you need to know everything in there. And again, it’s not to be you know, I want to say this and put a disclaimer on there. They couldn’t really be quite vague. So as membership based organizations, while he’s specifically in the state of Alabama where I am, if you can’t tell by my accent, I’m sure you can, you knew it was somewhere in the south listener. But, and Alabama is a membership organization, we’re required to have an annual meeting, at least some event, some opportunity where the entire membership is invited. And typically it looks like when we have a change of officers or an awards banquet, you know, that’s typically where we incorporate that. But it has to have an opportunity and it is a business meeting for all members of the organization to be invited and also have a chance to address the assembly as the whole address the board. Most of the time it doesn’t happen but you understand that but to me if you put that in the bylaws, you can just simply say our organization, our chamber will have an annual meeting period. And I’ve seen so many bylaws that say our annual meeting will be on the third Thursday of September. It will start at six o’clock and it will be at the Civic Center. Well, you just set yourself up for failure if something happens on the third Thursday of September, and the Civic centers booked, I mean, you know, and that sounds trivial. But in theory, you are in violation of your bylaws, you have broken your own rules. And that sets you up for, you know, not good. And it can go as far as litigation, you know, those kinds of things if you have a disgruntled member, and again, I’ve seen things that were not malicious, they were just innocent, I’ve seen people focus on an end date, rather than our pre process, and kind of skirt some things. And again, not malicious at all, but violated the bylaws. And so automatically, you broke your own rules that govern your relationship between you and your members. And when that happens, you lose trust. And it just kind of spirals from there.
Brandon Burton 30:54
Yeah, I can see where we’re leaving a little bit of vagueness, because it’s helpful to be able to have that flexibility to stay within your bylaws, but also be able to adapt, you know, as times change, and if you’re set to be on the, you know, the third Tuesday of, you know, at the Civic Center, and then your your chamber size, you know, doubles in size, which hopefully you can’t fit in the civic center anymore, you know, so
Jeremy Arthur 31:19
and that’s why I said a periodic review of your bylaws is key, because then you can adapt to the changing circumstances you find your chamber in just the prime example you
Brandon Burton 31:30
just used. Right? Very good. Well, Jeremy, as we start to wrap up here, I wanted to ask you, if you might have any tip or action item for listeners who are interested in taking their chamber up to the next level, what might you suggest for them?
Jeremy Arthur 31:45
Well, I’m biased, I’m going to tell you the start to go to institute. First and foremost, the Institute for organization management with the US Chamber. Like I said, it just finished my term as Chair of the Board of Trustees, but multiple sites multiple times across the year is really a great foundational program. And then it led me to pursue my CCE, like you said, less than four or 5% of of execs in the country have a certified chamber executive designation. Same way with ACA II and their ca they’re certified Association Executive, all in this realm and arena. I mean, that’s your professional designation and your certification. And it also shows your continuing education. You know, I’m biased now I would say partner with your local University, if you’ve got a regional or a statewide, I happen to have a statewide footprint. And we are all the time they’re Institute’s like mine, whether it’s called a similar name, or something different office of public service, again, professional continuing education, at institutions of higher education, whether it’s a community college, whether it’s a technical college, whether it’s a four year institution, you name it, that can be a great resource. And that also has access to resources that can help you and be a great partner. And so that’s a shameless plug, given what I do now. But it also helps me and, again, keeps me connected to that. And so I think that’s great takeaways, review those documents, don’t let, it’s not a daunting task, reach out for help. We have a great network, your listener, base, your followers here, you can make connections. And then I would say continue to invest, listen to this podcast. I mean, I’ve just listened just recently, we were talking, I travel a lot. And so it’s great for me to be a podcast listener in a car, or on a plane as much as I travel. And so just continue to really benchmark those best practices. And don’t be afraid to ask this community across this country is so helpful, is willing to, I mean, literally counsel, you share best practices. And I’ll be the first to say you call me I’ll tell you where I messed up. And I’ll say, Hey, don’t do this. I did it. And it didn’t work. It might work for you. But let me help you avoid some pitfalls. So I hope that helps, too. But just again, make sure your internal house is in order. Because when it’s in order, the sky’s the limit what you can do externally.
Brandon Burton 34:21
Absolutely. I love those tips. So you can just keep going all day with these lessons you’ve learned. So Jeremy, I like asking everyone I have on the show, as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future chambers and their purpose going forward?
Jeremy Arthur 34:37
I think they’re more relevant now than ever before. But I think their roles and their definitions are changing. We’re no longer just an entity that networks we should be an entity that convenes, facilitates and leads and we’re doing just that. When you look at the innovative things that can entities are doing across the state led by their Chamber of Commerce. Because the chamber is seen as that convener of bringing partners together, of making those connections to truly solve real world problems. obvious example here in Alabama for years, our business community and our education community tucked at each other, not with each other, and not to each other. They talked at each other. And we have broken down the silos to really say business community, how can the education community help you? How can they help you train your workers? What do you need to tackle these workforce development issues? What are programs we need to do and again, the Chamber’s across the state, led that charge and are leading that charge. And I will also say, you know, unfortunately, we do find ourselves sometimes in a divisive culture, where you know, that sensational bad news sales, and we have so much good news to sell. And to talk about that we need to, we need to be there, we need to be the front line, for every negative headline, generating for positive headlines because they’re there in your community. And also don’t shortchange yourself, and don’t undersell yourself, something that may you may consider trivial, and it’s just a part of your job, can really be life changing to a lot of people. Tell your story. Tell your story. It’s hard, we’re busy doing the work. So we don’t have time to tell our story. We’re doing the story. But don’t forget to tell your story. Because it’s important, and people should hear it.
Brandon Burton 36:48
Absolutely. I love that great, great vision of the future but also you know, chock full of more tips too. So well thank you Jeremy, for for sharing this, you know, great, great information with us. I hope this is a an episode that listeners go back to often as maybe as you know, a regular basis as they go back to look through bylaws, go back to this episode, I went to Jeremy Slater here, and just you know, jot down your notes and make it a regular practice. But Jeremy, I wanted to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for listeners who want to reach out and connect with you learn more, and just maybe a dive in a little bit deeper. Where Where would you point them to reach out and connect with you?
Jeremy Arthur 37:31
Absolutely. Hey, you can follow me, I’m on all the social media platforms. So Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, our institute, the government and Economic Development Institute, if you just go to auburn.edu, you can find us there. It’s technically auburn.edu/outreach/ged. And you can find us there, we would love to, you know, I will help you if I can help you. Certainly we cover the state of Alabama, but my reach is much broader and much more in scope than that. And I’m willing to help you. And if you’ll reach out to me anyway, also my email just my first initial last name, jarthur@auburn.edu. And I think I’ve given my my employer and my alma mater plugs by saying that Auburn University, so but again, reach out to me if I can help you there are free resources on our website as well that anybody can use. Specifically, I’ll just put a plug, there’s a you’ll see a tab on our website, called know your community, free and open to anybody has great demographic research of literally every community in the country. You can be a comparative research. Again, look at that. And if we can help you, thank you. And then I would just encourage folks, continue to listen to this chamber chat. Even if you see a topic that you say, well, that doesn’t really apply to me listen to it, because I promise you, you will take away something from your guests and their experience. If you listen.
Brandon Burton 39:07
I appreciate that. Jeremy. We will. We’ll get your contact information in our show notes for this episode, the website I encourage everybody to check out the Know Your Community tab. That sounds like great, great resource there for for anybody listening.
Jeremy Arthur 39:22
So it’s free. Yeah,
Brandon Burton 39:24
it’s free. You can’t beat that. I love that. Well, Jeremy, thank you so much for being with us today provided a ton of value for listeners. And this is a the perfect type of programming that we’d like to have. You’re on the podcast. So thank you so much.
Thanks Brandon.
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