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Brandon Burton 0:00
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You’re joining us for a special episode in our 2024 Chamber of the Year Finalist Series. And our guest for this episode is Todd Sanders. Todd is the President and CEO of the Greater Phoenix Chamber in Arizona, and was named that that role in 2009 before assuming his current role, Todd represented the interests of businesses and community at the Arizona State legislator and Phoenix City Hall as Vice President of Public Affairs. In that role, he enhanced the Chamber’s position as a statewide leader in immigration policy, initiative reform and pro business tax policy. Prior to joining the chamber, Todd acted as a Research and Policy Analyst for the Arizona House of Representatives, serving several standing committees in the areas of taxation, Environment, Energy, state trust, land, counties, municipalities and international trade. He also acted as a liaison to the Arizona Mexico commission on behalf of the house represent, House of Representatives, and currently serves as board president for the Arizona Mexico commission. Todd is a native of Bogota, Colombia. Holds a Bachelor of Science in political science from Northern Arizona University, and he and his wife have a son and live in Phoenix, Arizona, Todd, I’m excited to have you with us today here on chamber chat podcast. Want to start by saying congratulations to you and your team, what a honor and accomplishment, and want to allow you a chance to say hello to all the Chamber Champions that are out there listening and share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better, you
Todd Sanders 2:45
bet. Well, thank you for that, for that introduction. I think if my mom were here, she would be certainly proud, but I certainly embarrassed by all of those. Although those details, thank you for taking the time. I can’t tell you how thrilled we are here in Phoenix to be in the running for a chamber of the year. It is, is a tremendous honor. And as soon as we were notified, the whole chamber was, was just overjoyed. So really appreciate the opportunity. In terms of about things about me, usually, I usually tell people Sure, I was born in Bogota, Colombia, kicked out for bad behavior, but, but the I will tell you something that I think probably 99% of people don’t know. So you mentioned that my name is Todd Sanders recently, well, I shouldn’t say recently. About three or four years ago, we were at a family reunion, and somehow our family tree came up, and we mentioned my brothers and I were saying, Well, we know that my mom’s side was from Scotland, and dad’s side was from Italy. And someone piped up and said, Italy, you know, what are you talking about? There’s no Italian blood here. And and we were just we were so confused that dad’s not with us anymore. And what we learned was, what actually happened is, generations ago, a we actually my our great, great grandfather migrated from, I believe, Mexico into the United States, settled in California and and at that time, decided that probably would be more advantageous to have a more Anglo Saxon sounding name. So he and some friends who sort of came up with this idea, put some names into a hat, and they drew, and my great, great grandfather drew the name Sanders previously. And I guess, I guess you could say, currently, our name had been Sepulveda. So actually, you’re talking to Todd Sepulveda, but by accident, or, I guess, because, of a set of circumstances, Todd Sanders, so something that most people don’t know about me and then, and of course, Todd Sepulveda doesn’t really roll off the tongue. That’s
Brandon Burton 4:47
right. I wonder if your first name would have been different if it’s
Todd Sanders 4:50
still I wonder, yeah, absolutely.
Brandon Burton 4:54
Might be talking to a whole different person. But that’s that’s interesting. I like hearing the family history. And how names change. And my last name is currently Burton, b, u r t o n. But again, his family immigrated into the states. They came from France through Canada into Maine, and at the time it was b, e r t i n, and of course, everybody’s illiterate back then, so they said the name, it got written down, b, u, r, t, O, N, and here we are still today. So yeah, it’s, that’s the way it works. That’s right. Well, tell us about the greater Phoenix chamber. That’s what we’re here for. So tell us about your your organization, size, staff, budget, scope of work, just to set the stage for us. Well,
Todd Sanders 5:38
you bet Walt, thank you for that opportunity. So we have interesting history. Unlike most of the the folks that are listening to this, this podcast nationally, where states have been around for a while, Arizona is a relatively young state. We were formed in 1912 so, so, you know, we just had our our centennial chamber was formed in 1888 so prior to statehood, some some visionary business leaders at the time, formed the Phoenix chamber, and obviously through that time, it has evolved into the organization it is today. So as of, as of now, we have about 2400 members, ranging in all sizes. Our budget is is split between two entities. There’s the chamber side and the foundation side. And when you put those two together, it’s shy of about ten million with the foundation being slightly larger. The staff, our staff is currently close to 70 and and a lot of that serves some of the needs that we’re addressing through the foundation. Yeah, in terms of programs of work, as you mentioned, I come from a policy background, so I’m I can’t get away from that. We do a lot of the state legislature. We work a lot with our city, our city council, and more and more, especially with our friends at the US Chamber, we’re doing work at the at the federal level, there’s also an economic development component to the work we do now. Like, like most of us, we aren’t an attractor. We have a statewide attractor and a county attractor of businesses into the valley. But certainly, as as most chambers do when we get businesses come into town. How do we keep them here? How do we keep them growing? And then finally, as an outgrowth of that work, there’s a workforce component to it, and that’s really where the foundation comes into play,
Brandon Burton 7:30
yeah, but I’m glad to hear that you guys have a foundation. I know that’s kind of the trajectory that we see. Chambers are encouraging chambers to go to be able to really further the work that they have to do. But so typically, on these chamber the year finalist episodes, what I like to do is focus the majority of our time on the programs that were submitted on your chamber the year application, and dive into kind of the origins for those and and the impact that they’re making in your community. And we’ll, we’ll dive into those programs for the greater Phoenix chamber, as soon as we get back from this quick break.
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All right. Todd, we are back. So as I mentioned before the break, we’ll we’ll dive into the pro. Programs that were submitted on your chamber of the year application. I understand that the first kind of scope or program of work will say, covers several programs, kind of in one container, we’ll say, but please introduce that to us. Let us know what those programs are, and again, what the origins and the reason it kind of how this developed?
Todd Sanders 10:25
Well, thank you for that. You’re right. The first, the first set of programs, is sort of under one category. And I think about it as sort of this idea of belonging, my my philosophy, my leadership philosophy really revolves around an abundance model, which, of course, isn’t isn’t blind to the fact that we have to compete, but there’s also a lot of room for us to work together or to bring people in. And so one of those is really revolves around our strategy relating to helping small and mid sized business understand what the road to diversity and inclusion looks like for their companies. Large companies really don’t have a big challenge with implementing these kinds of programs within their within their organizations, but small and mid sized companies tend to have challenges with that. And this goes back eight years ago, July 7, by the way. July 7, 2016 was the day that this all started for me. I had a member of my board, Frank Reed, African American gentleman, who called me and said, Todd, I need to go to lunch. And can we, I need to get on your calendar today, which I thought was was interesting. But we did it. And he and our chair, we sat down and and he said, today in my hometown of Dallas, five police officers were shot for a race related reason, and we can’t let that happen in Phoenix and and part of that is because we’re not we’re not bringing people in, we’re not having conversations, and we’re not really thinking about belonging here. And he said, I need the chamber to engage and but that that lunch, we said, All right, we’re going to do that. And that was the start of something, I think, really impactful, which which began with this, this toolkit that, for instance, our for our friends in the Billings Montana chamber are using as well, where we’re giving small, midsize businesses a roadmap just to start to bring people in and have conversations about how we can all belong, and we built up a toolkit. One of the first things that that occurred was that we decided that staff’s not going to build this thing out. My members of my executive committee built this thing out with with help from us and more of logistical support. And the product, I think, was remarkable. Now it’s in the second iteration, and and and the discussion at that time was, well, what do we do with this? And we immediately decided we’re not monetizing it, we’re giving it away. And you can imagine my sales people. We’re thrilled with this idea, but we felt like it really important for us to learn from what happened in Dallas, and this is before, certainly George Floyd and all these other things. But how do we start bringing people in and just talk to each other, right? And so we decided we would give it away, whether you remember or not, we want to help people in, and we’ve we formed a committee that really what we do is we help businesses along the way when the way they have want to have conversations about, how do you include people? And how do we, how do we make that a part of what we do every day? That’s the toolkit that we use. So that’s one part of it. There were some existing programs that really got wrapped into this. We have an Athena program, which I’m sure a lot of people are familiar with, with the Athena international program, and that’s really how we look at women leaders in our community, that balance, obviously, leadership positions. They also are mentors, and they’re making change in their community. And we’ve had this for 38 years now. It’s a really important part of who we are. There’s also a bit a business, a Women’s Alliance, where we’re bringing women leaders together on a monthly basis, and we really promote what they’re doing. They They network with each other, they lift people up. And it’s a remarkable, remarkable program. Never leave one of these programs without feeling inspired and and really wondering how you didn’t know about this person in our community. And then finally, our Valley young professionals. We, when I became CEO, I really made it a goal to make this a program that was going to be worthwhile, not just something where we were checking the box. And so we really thought about, how do we make this impactful? And part of that, obviously, is giving people coming into their careers an opportunity to really understand what it’s like to serve on a board. What’s a nonprofit all about, what’s your role, what’s the what’s the role of the organization? And and it was working really well. We had really strong leaders, which I think is part of the key, right? But then I there was something was missing, because they there was always this idea that there’s the vyp board, value professional board, and then there’s sort of, quote, unquote big board. And I thought, why do we Why do we have that? And going back to this idea of abundance, I said. Let’s do this. I want to make the leadership so the Chair and the Vice Chair, I want to make them full fledged members of our board, and that means they’re voting members. They’re not junior members that are observed, but they’re full fledged members of the board. That really sort of changed the way young people were looking at this committee and engaging in this committee. Now, what’s interesting about it, you know, how you so you’re thinking about influencing and really bringing up a sort of a set of people as we started to incorporate them into the board, we started feeling significant benefits from having completely different point of view on the board, so much so that at our board retreats, we actually invite the the vyp board, the full board, onto our into our into our retreats, along with our foundation, because they’re adding so much to the conversation. So really, this, this whole idea, and all of these programs are, we’re all wrapped around this, this thought that there’s, there’s a lot of there’s a lot of abundance out there, and how do we start to share that, and how do we start to bring people up? And as a consequence, it’s made us stronger, it’s made us healthier, and it’s and I think in a lot of ways, it’s the reason why we’re here today, talking to you, because that’s the kind of thing that really starts to move a community forward. Right
Brandon Burton 16:21
now, when you think of inclusion and making sure people feel welcomed, I like to think if somebody walks into a room and they don’t feel like they belong there, whether it’s whatever group, you know, segmentation you want to, you know, put the focus on, if they don’t feel like they belong there, they’re out, you know, they’re not going to stay, they’re not going to come back, they’re not going to engage. They’re not going to go to the next level with engagement with your organization. So it’s so important to be able to really highlight these areas, to make sure that people from all different walks of life as they come in, that this is a place for everyone in your community to be involved.
Todd Sanders 17:04
You Ben
Brandon Burton 17:06
with a thought, do you, I know, unfortunately, dei gets kind of a political spin put on it. So how’s the approach that you guys have? Or have you gotten any you know, received any feedback from people on the outside saying, what’s the chamber doing getting involved with these things, and how do you address that with them?
Todd Sanders 17:26
You know, I haven’t gotten the the angry emails that I’ve that I’ve heard about, and I think part of that is because we really look at it from a practical standpoint. I’ll give you an example Frank. Frank read the gentleman that I talked about, you know, provided such an important example, and we’re seeing this, for instance, today in Phoenix, there are literally more jobs than people, so we’re having to do everything that we can to really fill these, these critical slots in our economy. One of the things that that this applies to is the workforce side, obviously, and his story was that they had a really high level position in a company that they were trying to fill. And they they brought they were thinking, Alright, we need more women leaders. They brought in these five. I mean, these were top notch, Ivy League type folks that any one of them would have been incredible for this position. And so they brought them in. They did these interviews. And you know how these, these things work, it’s not generally one person, it’s probably a panel of folks and and they all five women, declined the position in succession, and finally, Frank decided to call a couple of them, and what they said was, you know, it seems like a great company, a lot of opportunity there, but I don’t see myself represented there. There was just a bunch of bunch of men on this in this panel, and I didn’t think I belong there. And for him, it was a really interesting wake up call. And said in the sense that if you want to bring people on board, make sure that they feel like they have a place there. And I think when we talk to companies about how you’re going to look for this top talent, as we’re thinking about $40 billion worth of semiconductor dollars coming into Arizona, and what’s going to be needed in terms of top talent, you got to make sure that that people feel like they got a place at the table if you’re looking to fill these really critical roles. So I think for us, it’s been looking at this from a practical perspective. Same thing goes for the young professionals, the when I think about way back when, when we started this group, there was one particular person who who was their their chair at the time, and she was a complete standout, just amazing. Went through that process, left the vyp group because she’d sort of graduated out and was chair, and had done everything that could be done. Then she became a member of the board through her company, and two years ago, she was my chair. She was the chair of our board, and an incredibly catalytically or who brought so much to the table. So I think when people start to see this as not a political exercise, but this idea that all we’re doing is making sure. Sure that there’s room at the table for everybody. You tend to win.
Brandon Burton 20:03
Yeah, that goes back to your, your thought on abundance, right? There’s room for everybody, and let’s, let’s show them. I, I’ve heard it, and I think I’ve shared it before on the podcast, but when you walk into a room and you see people gathered together, they tend to be in in a circle, right, talking to each other. And that to be inclusive. Instead of a circle, create more of a horseshoe, right? Leave it open, let people in be able to let them feel welcome and like they belong there.
Todd Sanders 20:27
Well, it’s true. And I think, you know, part of that is came from this idea. You mentioned, I was from Colombia, and it’s odd, because when I’m in the States, I always feel like there’s a part of me that’s that doesn’t belong, because it’s true, right? I’m, you know, people you were born somewhere else, and when I’m in Colombia, people like automatic people like, automatically think I’m
Brandon Burton 20:45
American, because, yeah,
Todd Sanders 20:47
I don’t use the simple but a name down there, and so it’s an odd thing to it, so it gives you a sense for what that’s like. But, but, yeah, it’s been, it’s been really rewarding in terms of how far this has gone and the impact that it’s had, not only on the chamber, but in in organizations throughout the Valley and in people, yeah, oh,
Brandon Burton 21:07
that’s great. Let’s shift gears a bit into the other program that was submitted on your application. And if you could tell us what that is and what the origins and the purpose was behind that,
Todd Sanders 21:19
well, you mentioned the foundation, and I’m really glad you did. And I’m encouraging other other chambers to certainly look at foundations. And I will say that we call it the 10 year overnight success story. Yeah,
Brandon Burton 21:31
it takes most are right 100%
Todd Sanders 21:34
I’d love to say it was two years. But, you know, a lot of that work was was built on, you know, the things we had done in the past, and when I mentioned the the Retention and Expansion work that we did, what, what I assumed, when we started talking to businesses, that they would tell me, Todd, the big issues here in Arizona are, are taxes and regulation and and as we talked to business leaders, none of them said that, Which was really shocking to me, and this is before workforce was was cool. They all said we don’t have the qualified talent that we need today and and that was a big wake up call for us. Part of the part of that also was a visit we had with a what would be a fortune 200 company locally that was moving about 200 jobs that paid six figures outside of Arizona because they couldn’t find enough people who could pass the series seven exam. And okay, hold on. We’re the we’re the fifth largest city in the country. That doesn’t seem possible, right? So we figured out very quickly that there was a role for us there. We needed to do more in this space, and so that’s how we got into workforce. And as we as we had a few years under our belt with workforce, it became really clear that we there wasn’t a good method or a good pathway for kids in high schools looking to college and career either or right. I know it’s black and white, but it’s not, it’s college and or career, because they’re interchangeable in some ways. And so I’ll tell you the story real quick. We decided we really need to learn. And so there’s a really great program in Nashville, and kudos to to the Nashville chamber and all the work that they do out there a program in Nashville where they have these Academy an academy model. And so we took a group out to Nashville, and we said, we want to learn about this. And by happenstance, the Phoenix union board actually ended up there as well. We had no idea they were going to be there. We bumped into each other, and it was weird, because we didn’t know each other really well. It was a lot of distrust. Why is the chamber here? You know, what is this board doing here? And we started talking. Go figure, right? We started talking. And by the third day, we were kind of a unified group. And we left there saying, we don’t know this is our model, but, but if, maybe, if we decided to work together, maybe there’s something here for us. And so we did. We decided that we would start with one school, and what we would do is we would see how we could create pathway opportunities for kids in high schools, especially in Title One high schools. And so that was, that was a about four years ago. Three years ago, we started with our first school and and district, and that started to grow over time, and it is something that now has grown to 20 high schools in Arizona and 1000s of kids through that work. One of the things that we we found, among other things, was that a lot of these kids had the the skills, they had the ability, they certainly had the right to engage in some sort of dual enrollment opportunity, but they weren’t doing it, partially because they didn’t know it existed, and mostly because they didn’t have the funds to pay for the dual enrollment. So this is what I love about this sort of project, because it engaged the. Foundation that also engage the chamber. Remember, I told you, we do a lot of the at the legislature. So last year, we got together with some of our partners and and petitioned the legislature for an appropriation that would allow our our kids, our Title One kids, to get at least six credit hours, usually 12 credit hours of dual enrollment before they graduated. It was an interesting issue because it was, believe it or not, bipartisan. There was both sides. It was weird, right? This was a good idea. It was, it was odd, but it was a great, a great thing to sort of be curious about the this bill passed, and now there’s an opportunity for these kids to not have to worry about the financial barrier and think about what this will mean going into into college. You know, if, if they have these 12 credit hours, it means they’re probably going to continue on into the community college system, get a get a two year degree, or a four year degree in industries or in areas where there’s a huge demand in Arizona. So that first year we did it, we saw 40% increase in dual enrollment in 20 in 20 High School. So a significant number. This year we’re seeing a smaller increase. And we had to ask ourselves, what’s going on here? We obviously have a lot of kids out there that haven’t seen this opportunity. What we found was, and probably what we’re seeing in a lot of communities around our country, where we’re actually have a shortage of teachers who are certified in dual enrollment. So we were able to get funds together, and we’re actually providing incentives for teachers to get certified. They have to do that. They have to pay to get certified. So we’re helping them get certified. Our goal is to get get them certified through the system, and then next year, bring those numbers up again. But it’s an interesting sort of process, from where we started with us in Nashville, looking at how we can work together, to today, looking at very specific numbers and the families that we’re helping on a generational basis.
Brandon Burton 27:02
Yeah, well, that goes back to, you know, raising the tide, you know, raises all ships as well. So in both of these programs, I see examples of that. So with this one, you’re focused on the employers making sure they have the pipeline coming in, but in doing, in focusing on that, you’re enhancing the life of these young people going through high school and looking to the that next step in their their life, their, you know, work or college, or both and, or both, right?
Todd Sanders 27:28
I agree. And then the schools,
Brandon Burton 27:30
the schools are being elevated, and the teachers are being elevated. So all around it’s great. They
Todd Sanders 27:35
really are and, and I’ll tell you, you know, a big part of this was internships, right along with a dual enrollment opportunity. And you can imagine what the reaction is from a lot of businesses when you tell them we want to live and have some seniors come in and do an internship, especially in areas like healthcare or or advanced manufacturing, like Honeywell. And I’ll use Honeywell as the example. They were very polite, and they said no, and we finally convinced them, three years ago to take three of our kids. And they said, okay, they have to be over 18, so they’re in their spring semester. We’ll take three. Let us see what happens. They took three, and at the end of it, they said, You know what these kids are, they’re pretty good. We’re gonna hire them. Awesome. So they hired these kids last year. They took six, and they erased the 18, the 18 year old rule. Well, let me fast forward to today. How many do you think they’re taking?
Brandon Burton 28:32
I I’m gonna say at least 12, if you just keep doubling, right? Or is 24 How many years is this now? This will be the third year. Third years, I’m gonna, I’m gonna guess 1288,
Todd Sanders 28:45
we’re taking 88 of our kids now. Here’s the here’s the awesome. I’m gonna bring this all back to where I started, in terms of abundance. All right, so here’s, here’s the story. So earlier last month, we met with the representative money well, when he was telling us that they’re gonna increase to 88 and he said, I need to tell you what happened in that first cohort of kids, there was one kid who was on the bubble, looks like he wasn’t going to graduate. He wasn’t engaged. High School just wasn’t his thing. And the school and Honeywell decided, let’s let’s see what happens. Well, you know what happened, right? Honeywell hired him at the end because it really seemed to work. Well, guess what? Today? Well, not today. Last month, he brought his he bought a house for his family. Wow, yeah. I mean, think about that as a kid who’s on the bubble, probably not going to graduate all of a sudden, he’s got this incredible job of Honeywell. And today, I mean, my kid’s 20, he’s not buying a house for his family. This kid just bought a house for his family. That’s not political, that’s amazing. How do we start to create an abundance mentality in our community and really create opportunity for everybody, including Honeywell, by the way,
Brandon Burton 29:54
yes, wow. That just blows my mind. The 88 interns now that great story, great. Success, yeah,
Todd Sanders 30:01
a lot of those. Yeah, I
Brandon Burton 30:03
bet we can go on for a couple hours trying to some great stories. And I’d love
Todd Sanders 30:08
to say that, you know, kudos to the chamber, no, kudos to those companies. CVS just did 20. Yeah? So it’s great to, it’s great to see that impact, and it’s great to see companies stepping up like that, yeah,
Brandon Burton 30:19
well, and for those who do go the route of higher education after high school. It’s a huge help to have those dual credits going into college and university, and being able to kind of have that head start. And my son just graduated, and he got it, got out of high school with 30 college credits, like, that’s awesome going into as a sophomore, right? So it’s
Todd Sanders 30:41
you think about the financially for you. I mean, that’s yeah, you just saved
Brandon Burton 30:45
a year. Yeah? I recognize it, yes, yeah. Well, Todd, I like asking, especially as a chamber of the year finalist, for listeners who are tuning in, what kind of tip or action item might you have to share with them as they look to take their chamber up to the next level?
Todd Sanders 31:06
Well, I, you know, I’ll go back to the 10 years ago when we decided that we wanted to, we needed to raise some money to make this happen. I think our goal was, was, was about a million dollars and and that was, that’s a big number. It’s a big number today. And as we were talking to business leaders, I think there’s, there’s, there’s, there’s always a lot of skepticism about a new program, and you’re coming here to help. And we hear this all the time. And I think one of the things that we said that I think made a big difference when we when we made our pitch, I said, Look, something in what I’ve just talked about is going to go wrong. Something’s not going to work. I promise you that is going to happen. But I’m also going to promise you that we’re going to take that, we’re going to learn from it, and then we’re going to pivot, and we’re going to make sure it does work. And I think we’ve, we’ve gotten comfortable with being uncomfortable, and that’s in all parts of our chamber. I mean, it’s so easy to say, I don’t know, that’s kind of scary. Well, we maybe we tried that before, or that’s never going to work, or we’ve always done it this way. We do it too, but if you give yourself permission to fail, you’re going to succeed.
Brandon Burton 32:18
Yeah, I love that. If you give yourself permission to fail, you’re going to succeed. It’s that’s a t shirt. That’s a t shirt, right? Yeah, so,
Todd Sanders 32:26
but you fail a lot and and that that’s what makes us successful. It’s
Brandon Burton 32:31
right. That’s right. You learn, right? You bet. Well, as we look to the future of chambers of commerce, how do you see the future of chambers and their purpose going forward.
Todd Sanders 32:41
Well, you know, I really feel like chambers are in such a good place right now. I feel like, you know, we’re looking at ourselves in a way that is probably different than we had even 10 years ago. You mentioned foundations. I think there’s a renewed emphasis on how we are really the heart of our economies. And I think probably covid was terrible. We wouldn’t want to go through it again. But I think covid really gave us a moment to really understand the importance that chambers serve in our communities. We are at the heart of our economies and our communities. And that certainly was reinforced during that time, and I think it gave us a new sense of what we need to be and how we need to do things, and how we talk about ourselves. We are economic developers. That’s chambers are the original economic developers. I don’t care how you slice it, that’s how the community sees us now. I think that’s tremendous, but we’re also taking that a step further and looking at things that we hadn’t traditionally looked at, like, like education, like foundation work. And I gotta tell you, I love this industry and and I’m so proud to be a part of it.
Brandon Burton 33:53
I love that, yes, every chamber is an economic development. Doesn’t matter what the city contract says you are involved in developing the economy in your community. Well, Todd, I wanted to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for listeners who may want to reach out and connect with you and learn how you guys are doing things there in Phoenix, and maybe dig in a little deeper. Where would you point them? Absolutely
Todd Sanders 34:17
Happy. Happy to help on that side as well. You can also, you can always go to our website, PhoenixChamber.com a lot of information there about all the programs we talked about, including a few others that I didn’t my email address is tsanders@phoenixchamber.com so feel free to reach out there as well. And then, certainly if you want to have a conversation, 602-495-6460, 495-6460,
Brandon Burton 34:43
that’s perfect. We will get that in our show notes for this episode too, to make it easy to reference and have people pull it up and find you there. But Todd, this has been great having you on Chamber Chat Podcast. I wish you and your team the best of luck in Dallas as Chamber of the Year, and keep up the great work. Work you guys are making a huge impact.
Todd Sanders 35:01
Well, thank you. We will look forward to seeing you
Brandon Burton 35:05
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