Category: workforce development

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Brandon Burton (00:01.056)
Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your host, Brandon Burton, and here on the podcast, I introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your Chamber members and your community. Our guest for this episode is Mike Conn. Mike is a people coach and culture strategist dedicated to helping Chambers of Commerce equip their members to lead people well. He is the author of Communication Culture and the creator of the Communication Culture System, a practical framework built on three core principles, lead people, manage processes, and measure and improve results.

With more than 1,500 paid speaking engagements under his belt, Mike brings real world hands-on experience to chamber leaders who want to reduce friction, strengthen engagement and alignment, and build healthier, more effective organizational culture across their membership. But Mike, I’m excited to have you with us today here on Chamber Chat Podcast.

I’d like to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the Chamber Champions who are out there listening. And if you would, share something interesting about yourself so we can all get to know you a little better.

Mike Conn (01:09.249)
Absolutely. Thank you, Brandon. I appreciate it. It’s an honor to be here. Probably the thing that I’ve watched and listened to a few other episodes, I thought if I ever get to be on this podcast, what would I say is interesting about me? And then I had to swipe left, swipe left. No, that’s probably not as interesting as I would want it to be. Especially you’ve had some amazing guests that have kind of a nice curveball that came out of nowhere. So for me, I would say the thing that I think is kind of interesting

Brandon Burton (01:32.472)
So thank you.

Mike Conn (01:36.008)
is that I think you wouldn’t notice just by looking at me as I’m a beginning tap dancer.

Brandon Burton (01:41.998)
okay. I wouldn’t have guessed it, but that’s awesome.

Mike Conn (01:46.71)
Now, I don’t know what the statute of limitations is on beginning tap dancer, but I’m going to ride that wave as long as I can. I grew up watching Gregory Hines tap dance and I thought, that’d an amazing thing to do, but I never really cared to do it. But then when I saw Richard Gere in the movie, Chicago, and someone comes out and says, and now it’s time for a tap dance. I’m like, I want to do that. And so in my mid forties, I

Brandon Burton (02:09.068)
Yeah.

Thank you.

Mike Conn (02:11.928)
prepaid seven lessons to my tap dance teacher because I knew I would chicken out if I didn’t have some skin in the game. And so anyway, that is true. There is a YouTube video, Mike Conn tap dancing debut. Now here’s the disclaimer, it’s two minutes and 28 seconds of your life, you’ll never get back. I’m gonna here.

Brandon Burton (02:32.718)
Right. Beware, viewer, beware. So I think you can claim that you’re beginner until you make it to Broadway or get on the Tonight Show or sign your first movie deal. So I think you’ve got some runway. Yeah, you’re good. That’s awesome. Well, tell us a little bit about your consulting and coaching company offerings and what it is that you do to help those as far as the communication elements go.

Mike Conn (02:44.408)
So I’m still under the umbrella then. All right, that’s good.

Mike Conn (03:02.392)
Yeah, I appreciate that. My business really started at a chamber banquet, an annual chamber banquet here in our town. I wasn’t a member of the chamber yet. I was doing some speaking gigs. I’d served in the church for about two and a half decades and I was still serving in the church and still also doing some conversations with people. They called it maybe people coaching. We’re not sure exactly what it is, but our people,

Mike, my team’s not functioning like a team. Can you help me? And I said, yeah, sure. So I got the opportunity to go in there. A buddy of mine bought a table for a chamber event and I went to it and it was kind of cinematic, at least in my mind. And at one point I thought, you know what? And I even, I even nudged him and I leaned over and I said, Hey, listen, here’s what I know. Mike Conn coaching and consulting the international headquarters are going to be right here in Duncan, Oklahoma.

And he was like, that’s great. Hey, Mike, can you pass me the water? it was kind of, but I say it was wasted on him. He had already hired me to come in and speak to his team. He was an insurance agency owner. And the first time it was like, well, Mike, you talk to students in schools. This is kind of how it began. I started doing social emotional learning issues in schools. And so I went to the fifth grade teacher.

Brandon Burton (04:02.914)
Yeah.

Mike Conn (04:28.024)
at a local elementary and I said, listen, while I was still in church staff, I said, your fifth graders have developed a reputation and it ain’t great. Could I have 30 minutes with them before they go to middle school next year? And she looked me dead in the face and said, no, but I’ll give you an hour. And so we scheduled a time. It was in May and I’m not saying that we needed some filler time. What I’m saying is she invited me in, I brought a stool, she locked the door behind me.

Brandon Burton (04:44.782)
It’s time. It’s time. It’s time.

Mike Conn (04:57.4)
I’m kind of kidding. So I go in with these fifth graders and I delivered a talk and I had a note card that had four things on it. And one of them was, I’m a dude in Duncan who’s for you. And I think you need to know that. Another one was, you’re entering the most selfish phase of your life, dot, dot, dot. So make great choices. And there were two other things that I’ll leave out for now. When that all started, I came back, that was in May, I came back in August, same teacher, and I said,

You know how I did the talk last year, um, at the beginning, at the end of the year, she said, well, could you do one at the beginning and at the end? said, well, I’m not homeroom parent material, but I think I could maybe offer some service in this mode. You said, okay. And so what would that look like? And then I came back over the weekend with a nine session framework on leadership that was built for fifth graders. And she’s like, wow, this is amazing. Hold on. And she went and got her teaching partner and said, do that whole spiel again.

Brandon Burton (05:36.494)
Yeah.

Mike Conn (05:55.594)
So I did it and they said, okay, could you start this next week? And I said, I mean, yeah, sure. And that began what has turned into 934 sessions in public schools since September of 2016. And so my buddy who invited me to that chamber banquet, he said, Mike, so you help students navigate social emotional issues. That was after about 120 sessions. I said, yes, sir. And he said,

Brandon Burton (06:10.604)
out

Mike Conn (06:23.19)
That sounds a lot like developing soft skills in the workplace. Could you come talk to my, my customer service team? And on the outside, said, absolutely. And on the inside, I’m like, dear God, I hope so. Like, how’s this going to go? It’s a play at home game. Yeah. So that began a beautiful thing that’s now turned into my con coaching consulting. It’s got two main branches of the tree, so to speak. And what I’ve learned.

Brandon Burton (06:35.086)
Smoking like an entrepreneur.

Mike Conn (06:53.208)
I got my first church job in 1996 and and what I’ve learned is people are people are people and we can be very Vocal about things that we won’t take we won’t accept we you know You can’t you know, can’t you know, it’s easy to put our fist in the air and say we’re not gonna take it like we’re quick to do that But when one of the issues that we have a hard stance on hits close to home, then it changes everything because people are

Brandon Burton (07:12.738)
Thank

Mike Conn (07:22.71)
people are gray. And so when I first started with this business, I had a business coach. was, it was actually right after COVID. And, he said, Mike, at this point I’d done about 500 talks and I was very, very comfortable with it. And he said, Hey Mike, you’re not a leadership coach. I’m like, okay, great. he goes, Hey Mike, you, know what else you’re not? You’re not a culture coach. I’m like, awesome. And he, he said, do you want me to tell you what you are? I said, yes. And I need you to hurry because those are the two words that I’ve used the most.

Brandon Burton (07:35.246)
Thank Thank

Mike Conn (07:51.48)
tell people what it is that I do. He said, Mike, you’re a people coach. And when you invest in people, you know what happens? Their leadership increases exponentially. And when, when you help leadership increase exponentially on an individual level, an organizational level, a community level, then the culture just gets better and better and better. I said, okay. He said, do you feel better now? I said, yeah, a little. He said, Mike, I’m just saving you. If you say I’m a leadership coach.

then everyone sees you and John Maxwell in a ring and it’s you against him. Who do you think is going to win that one? I’m like, Hey, he said, it’s probably not going to be you. So anyway, that, shout out to Kev on that, my business coach. so that, that really kind of got me into looking for ways to see, okay, how could I help organizations who are led by people, they serve people.

Brandon Burton (08:27.138)
Yeah.

Thank

Brandon Burton (08:37.166)
you

Thank

Mike Conn (08:49.364)
and they’re built by people, how can I help them be better with the people that are in the building? And so that really led to me diving deeper into this.

Brandon Burton (08:58.722)
Yeah, that’s a great setup and background. In the past, I’ve done some episodes where we talk about culture at a chamber, culture within the community. But it’s a lot more high level. There’s not as much of the tactics that you can take and apply back to your community. we talk about the importance of culture and being that example in the community and in your organization. But I’m excited about our conversation today because we’re going to talk about communication.

Mike Conn (09:16.984)
Yes.

Brandon Burton (09:28.334)
and how that really helps to build and develop culture within your organization. But what I was excited about having you on the show today, Mike, is a lot of chambers have some involvement, whether it’s formal or informal, with economic development in their community. Whether they have that contract or they’re a support arm for the economic development organization in their community.

Mike Conn (09:46.721)
Yep.

Brandon Burton (09:55.418)
A lot of that with economic development is focusing on workforce and talent attraction and development. And what I see what you do is workforce and talent retention. And that should speak volumes to listeners who have, they run membership organizations. They know about attracting and selling new members, but they also know how important it is to retain the members within their organization.

So if we can help to amplify that in reaching out to your membership, the members of your organizations and helping to infuse the culture and retention of their people, developing that culture in their places of business to where that workforce and talent attraction part doesn’t have to be so much effort because the retention is so good.

That’s what we’re going to be diving into today as we talk about communication culture, and we will get into that as soon as we get back from this quick break.

Brandon Burton (10:57.728)
All right, Mike, we’re we’re back. And as I mentioned before the break today, we’re talking about communication culture and specifically, I’m interested in the the retention aspect of the the human capital that we have in our communities, the Chamber members have in their organizations. There’s a lot of time and effort and resources that go into hiring and developing. Why is it so important for us to retain?

and create a great culture in the workplace.

Mike Conn (11:31.602)
And I think that’s a great question. it’s, there’s this thing that sits in the blind spot of a lot of the employees slash team members in the organizations.

A lot of times they think, okay, I got in, but now they’re just looking for a reason to let me go. And I know that, I mean, I know that the posture changes, some of the conversations change. I’m a big believer in the locker room. I believe it’s the most important room in every organization. And a lot of, you know, a lot of people say, well, wouldn’t that be the conference room? Wouldn’t that be the training room? No, the locker room. I mean, I played football, but I don’t know. No, no, no, no. The locker room is

Brandon Burton (12:03.31)
I was like, we don’t have a locker room. Yeah, tell us about that.

Mike Conn (12:10.708)
Everywhere like as soon as you get out of your car and you’re walking into the building or if you’re remote as soon as you get into your space or the conversations you have with yourself about the good people you’re gonna be having conversations with later that’s all the locker room and I get hired for two reasons to keep the locker room from becoming toxic and then remove the blind spots from the leaders and What happens a lot of times? There’s just one organization. I’m thinking of now I go in there on the last Friday of every month for about five years and the

the owner does his meeting and then he says, well, we got coach Mike in the back and you know, I kind of knocked you down and he’s going to kind of pick you back up and whatever, whatever, whatever. It’s kind of a shtick now, you know, back and forth. But I say in that, and I would say to every organizational leader who is listening to this, we don’t hire people so we can fire them. You know that it costs too much. It costs too much to advertise, to replace them.

Brandon Burton (13:02.786)
Right.

Mike Conn (13:08.362)
I mean, according to Gallup, think is the stat I’m thinking of the most. costs like 150 % of their salary to replace them. But an employee or a team member, they’re not thinking that way. They’re thinking, well, if I don’t jump through all the hoops, okay, well, here we are in 2026 or whatever year you listen to this. And they’re just looking for a reason to let me go. That’s not right. That’s stinking thinking. Listen.

I don’t, as a business owner, I don’t hire people so I can look for the first opportunity to fire them. What a loose business model that would be. So what we’ve gotta do is we’ve gotta cultivate the culture. People say create culture, and yes you create, but you only create something once. And then the rest of the time you cultivate it. Cultivate’s simply a farming term that means control what you can control. And when I think culture,

Brandon Burton (13:41.368)
Press.

Mike Conn (14:01.528)
Because everybody’s got their own definition of whatever that may be and that’s fantastic. I love to bring common ground definitions so we can all get to a same place of what we’re talking about. And for me, culture is simply the way we do what we do and the way we allow it to be done. But that’s not how I hear it. That’s what I said. That’s how it is in my book, Culture 101, the way we do what we do and the way we allow it to be done. But the way I hear it is, this is how we do it. Like it’s such a…

Brandon Burton (14:29.422)
You practiced that a few times. I can hear it.

Mike Conn (14:31.256)
Because I mean, listen, I mean, let me tell you that I was in I was born or I was in life in 1995 without telling you like, like Montel is always in my in my mind. And I do get some people sometimes, are you the guy who talks about culture with 90s one liners? Yeah, that’s me. A category. That’s for sure a category of one, right? Like if you’re looking to try to separate yourself. That’s one of the ways to do it. Maybe not preferred, but that’s one of the ways to do it.

But when we talk about culture, it’s the way we do what we do and the way we allow it to be done. Okay, and what I hear a lot of organizational leaders say, they literally say this, they say, hey Mike, I need to manage my people better. I need to manage my people, manage people, manage people, manage people. And to me, I’m a big, I’m kind of, words are kind of important to me. And,

Brandon Burton (15:24.574)
Yeah.

Mike Conn (15:26.456)
especially with what I want to be known for and what I want to become the best in the world at, words are incredibly important to me. what I, instead of like finger in your face, angry eyebrows, like that’s not what you, that’s not who I am. That’s not what I do. So I put my arm around or come close and say,

Brandon Burton (15:47.022)
You

Mike Conn (15:47.5)
When you say manage people, managing people is like pushing a rope. Well, let me back up. And then I say, who in the room likes to be managed? And they’re like, do we raise our hand for this or not? I’m like, when a guy like me says, what do you think? Or who in the room feels like, it’s not a trick question. Do you like to be managed? And they’re like, well, no. Okay, well, what makes you think that’s the best way forward?

So it’s a word swap, right? And the culture that I want to cultivate, it’s a word swap. And instead of managing people, we do three things. We lead people, we manage processes, and then we measure and improve results and production. And when we focus with leading people,

that really kind of parts like the Red Sea. It’s like people who have been trained to lead people and then also what I refer to as the widget maker’s path to management. The widget maker was really good at making a widget and then someone said, here’s $5 or $500, whatever for your widget. What’d be better than one widget is multiple widgets. Can you make more widgets? And they’re like,

Brandon Burton (16:50.382)
Thanks.

Mike Conn (17:04.716)
Well, sure. And so they pay for more widgets. And then, the widget makers like, man, I’m really enjoying this. And then someone who needs a bunch of widgets all at one time says, Hey, can you, we want you to oversee the widget making and they promote them to the chief widget maker. And then the chief widget maker who was really good at making widgets, but has no people skills, no interpersonal skills, no leadership training feels like they got pushed into the nine foot deep end of a pool.

with no life jacket and they’re just managing people the way they were managed whenever it was before instead of leading people. That’s a tremendous distinction and…

When I’ve shared something similar to that with some of the chamber executives that I’ve had the privilege to have conversations with, they’re like, oh, the widget maker. Yeah, we’ve got some of that. And I had a conversation just last week with a nice lady in the HR department. She said, we’ve got 27 new middle managers. And I would say of those 27, probably 19 came to that through that widget maker path or whatever you just described. And then she said,

What do we do with that? And then I smile and I say, well, it sounds like you’re looking to cultivate the culture, control what you can control around the area of communication. And the goodness for you is I happen to be the guy who wrote the book about that communication culture. so I’m happy to help. It’s 46 bite-sized chapters with 40 blind spot alerts, because we’ve all stepped in something we didn’t see coming, and it’s written on a sixth grade reading level. And I did that on purpose because I want

everybody to be able to understand the conversation and take at least one thing. I’m a big believer in putting handles on hope. And what I know is true is the only difference in any tool is the intent of the person who’s holding it. this, in just the wrong person, everything looks like a nail when you’ve got a hammer, right? But what we also know is true is you can flip it over and then you could take something that was designed to be a tool and turn it into a weapon. And if that doesn’t resonate, then just Google.

Brandon Burton (18:44.398)
you

Brandon Burton (19:02.766)
Okay.

Mike Conn (19:12.984)
Tonya Harding and Nancy Kerrigan, especially after these Winter Olympics. It’s one of those things that I come to leaders and I say, it matters what you say and it matters more the way that it’s received. So kind of back to what you said at the beginning, what’s something that we can do to impact the culture. It’s really a people first.

Brandon Burton (19:23.534)
you

Brandon Burton (19:31.374)
So

you

Mike Conn (19:39.954)
Culture and I believe the most powerful three-letter word in the English language is for and I heard about it from a guy named Jeff Henderson who wrote an amazing book called know what you’re for Jeff worked for Coca-Cola Chick-fil-a. He also worked for a church for a long time in Atlanta, Georgia and He just said hey Mike. well, he didn’t say he he said it in the book, but I thought he was saying it to me He said most churches are known by what they’re against instead of who they’re for and I thought

That feels familiar. And I don’t think that’s a, it’s not intentional, it’s just in their blind spot. And what I’ve discovered the more I get to engage with people, the short people in the schools and the tall people, wherever, it’s, that’s not a church people thing, that’s a people thing. Because it’s so much easier being about what we’re against, and we can have what I call social media courage to go in and leave comments and never have to identify that I said that thing about that person. So.

Brandon Burton (20:34.828)
Great.

Mike Conn (20:39.798)
That’s why if Jeff were sitting beside me on this podcast, I would say, Jeff, that’s a great question. Who are you for? It’s a great question. And I turn up the dial and ask it a little bit differently. I think a good leadership question is who are you for? And I think a better leadership question is who knows that you’re for them. And so that is the target that I go, I try to coach and lead leaders, organizational leaders, new managers.

CEOs, whatever, anyone who has at least one person reporting to them, what you say is important and what’s more important is how it lands, how the people who you are leading, do they know that you’re for them? Because when they do, then feedback is something different. My talk on feedback is the human pinata. Because if your feedback’s not designed to build up and encourage, it’s not feedback, it’s target practice. Well.

I get about 70, 30 engagement with that. The 30 is the people who are like, Nope. But this 70 is like, man, that totally resonates with me. And it’s not, again, it’s not as much about what you say. You and I could say the exact same script, but if I’m investing at least 10 minutes a day and making sure that Brian who reports to me knows that I’m for him, then the feed and

Brandon Burton (21:47.928)
Yeah.

Mike Conn (22:07.096)
I don’t know. I think you grew up in California, right? So I don’t know how it was with your principal in elementary school. whenever Mrs. Howard was my principal in elementary school and whenever we would hear her come on the intercom and say, Mrs. Payne, please send Michael Conn to the office. Everyone in the school said, ooh. They didn’t think I was going to get a pizza party. They knew, but it’s that same thing.

Brandon Burton (22:10.68)
Correct.

Brandon Burton (22:26.56)
Ooh, yeah.

Mike Conn (22:36.492)
that people already, they’ve already identified it. They already had that experience and whether their name was called on the intercom or it wasn’t, they had that, ooh, that same reaction that you did. So I appreciate the participation. I don’t know if you can hear the audience, to me, that’s, we’re swimming upstream because that’s one one’s experience. So instead of angry eyebrows, finger in your face, do this this way because I said so, then.

Brandon Burton (22:46.658)
Yeah.

Brandon Burton (22:56.674)
Yeah.

Mike Conn (23:04.864)
then it’s a leadership thing and we’re trying to lead them and guide them to do what’s best for them, best for the organization, which of course is gonna be best for the leadership as well. So it’s not tricky. As you can tell, I’m pretty passionate about this topic.

Brandon Burton (23:21.262)
Yeah, so the the I’m calling it the for culture who knows your for them culture it really resonated with me as I was going through your book because So my dad was in pharmaceutical sales that you know the whole time I was growing up and he led sales teams and in the pharmaceutical industry It’s a common thing where there’s turnover, you know one company buys another there’s mergers. There’s accusate acquisitions

Mike Conn (23:26.594)
Yeah. OK.

Brandon Burton (23:49.298)
And inevitably there’s layoffs that come with that, right? Whenever you have this drastic change within organizations. And usually my dad was on the side of, you know, the stronger of the companies coming in, not always, but usually, and seeing firsthand how he led his sales team and stood up for them and fought for them and advocated for why they needed to remain as part of the sales team.

because of the trust he had with them, because of the results that they produced, because of the culture that they built as a sales team was so valuable going forward that his team would follow him anywhere. And towards the end of his career, he went to a lesser known pharmaceutical company. It was more of a startup and his whole sales team followed him because they saw that leadership. There was a culture that was developed there and they understood what he was for and that he was for them.

When I think of these companies and creating these cultures within the companies and really retaining their talent, retaining their employees, oftentimes we’ll think to, we need a better retirement plan. We need to have flexible work hours. We need to be able to allow people to work from home or ride scooters in the office or have a meditation room or snacks or whatever, because that’ll keep them long-term, right?

Mike Conn (25:11.032)
True.

Brandon Burton (25:17.902)
There may be some benefit to that, but there’s also a big cost that comes to all those things, which I’m not saying don’t do any of those things, but investing in the individual, helping them develop, helping them realize where they fit in with the organization, helping them realize that you are for them, helping them realize that they’re a part of something bigger, I think is so much more valuable in having them stick around for the long term than.

Mike Conn (25:40.696)
Absolutely.

Brandon Burton (25:45.518)
providing snacks in the break room or whatever it may be. I don’t know if there’s more blind spot. I see that as a blind spot where we maybe focus our intentions in the wrong place or too much attention in those areas. What other blind spots come up for you as you examine this?

Mike Conn (26:02.924)
And that’s a tremendous visual of that. And it really is infrastructural alignment. It’s the infrastructure of the people. Other blind spots is for leaders, we lead towards agreement instead of alignment. Listen, I don’t know about you, I don’t know your life, but I don’t even agree with the dude in the mirror every day. Like if I could do Groundhog Day, I wouldn’t do it exactly the same way every time, right?

Brandon Burton (26:29.4)
Yeah.

Mike Conn (26:30.612)
So it’s ludicrous for us to think, okay, well, I’m going to stamp it. I’m going to say it, and then you’re going to agree with me or you’re going to be out. And that’s not how most people do it. I understand that, but that’s the perception of how most people do it. And so what’s in our blind spot is a thing that you can control. And it’s such an easy thing that you and I both can control. There’s a great book called People Operations, and it’s about the people part of HR, right?

And in that they lay out three amazing stats that I bring up very early on, especially we’re talking about the locker room, we’re talking about culture, and it’s about the employee engagement. And according to this book, people who were surveyed, of the people who were surveyed, they said, what’s your greatest variable in employee engagement? 72 % said recognition. 60 % said they don’t feel like they’re recognized enough.

Brandon Burton (27:00.846)
Thank you.

Brandon Burton (27:22.989)
Yeah.

Brandon Burton (27:26.99)
Thanks.

Mike Conn (27:28.438)
And if you’re anything like me, when someone says, don’t feel like I’m recognized enough, you’re like, you know, fingers in belt loops, not enough. What about this? We do this, this like, listen, careful. You’re not on trial. You ask the people what their experiences and when they answer you listen, but if you don’t listen with your eyes, if you only listen with your ears until what’s actually said, then you forfeit.

Brandon Burton (27:36.078)
Thank

Mike Conn (27:55.498)
Everything else, like I don’t know the exact number. I love to ask this question. Two weeks ago, I was at a chamber in Kingfisher, Oklahoma, and I said, what percentage, there are 12 people in the room, what percentage do you feel like of communication is non-virtual? And we got everything from 57 % to 91%. Okay, that’s your experience. God bless you. Thank you for playing.

To the extent we only listen to what people say, then we’re forfeiting the difference. So if it’s 91%, which seems a little high, that, well, let me rephrase. That’s not been my experience, but it’s high. Then we’re forfeiting what people are actually saying. The last stat of those three, 72 % said it was recognition, 60 % said they haven’t been recognized enough, they don’t feel like, and the third stat is 53%.

said they’ve never been recognized in their current place of employment. And for us in leadership to get defensive, that’s a huge plus-five. It’s exactly the wrong move because when you ask people what their experience is and they tell you, your job is not to refute it. Your job is not to disprove it. And unfortunately, we spend a lot of time doing that. one of the easiest ways, I’m a guy, I try to put handles on hope.

Okay, Mike, okay, that’s great. What’s one way, you know, now I’m on the prices, right? Bob, is there at least one number right? Like, what’s one way that we can recognize people since they said that was really important? It’s very, very easy. I call it a megaphone minute. Guess how long it lasts? It’s 60 seconds. And you just say, an example of a megaphone, like you’re just looking for something that they’ve done well.

Brandon Burton (29:37.39)
About a minute. Yeah.

Mike Conn (29:45.92)
and you’re just recognizing it. And you know, people like to be recognized in lots of different ways. I understand that an example of a megaphone minute would be then this is authentic. And we talked about this before we started recording. man, Brandon, your podcast is awesome. I started in 2019, January of 2019. Ask me how I know. Cause I listened to that first episode again this morning before we recorded, but you do a masterful job of setting the stage. First of all, you introduce everyone as chamber champions.

Secondly, you’re guiding the conversation on what value can, how can I set up this guest to deliver value that they can deliver in ways that maybe I could deliver too, but we’re gonna give them their moment in the sun. Speak to their expertise. You have done this very, very well. This was only 40 seconds of a megaphone minute. But when you, it’s different instead of saying, hey Brandon. I keep keep going.

Brandon Burton (30:39.918)
We’ve got 20 more seconds, so can keep me to our skit.

Mike Conn (30:43.884)
But it’s not, well, I will say this is probably our fourth time chatting and you’ve been the same every time, consistent every time and consistent with the multiple episodes that I’ve listened slash watched. The reason why that matters is if the first time you hear me say something positive about your podcast, that’s when you’re on Facebook or whatever social media is when people are listening to it right now.

Then it’s like, okay. So we talked on the phone or we talked on zoom or we talked wherever we talked four times and you couldn’t be bothered to share that with me then. But now when the lights are on and people are counting likes and shares and all that stuff, it’s a totally different thing. And it comes across to the employee, to the team member as disingenuous. So a small thing that we can do that really, really turns up the dialogue culture.

Brandon Burton (31:30.909)
Yeah.

Thank you.

Mike Conn (31:38.142)
is when you see someone doing something good, reward them for it, recognize them for it, call them out for it. So then it doesn’t feel like the principal in elementary school saying, please send Michael, only two people call me Michael. And one of them has been for 26 years. like it’s, it’s, it’s that kind of a thing, but in our leadership, it’s in our blind spot because we think we’ve got a rule with an iron fist or we can’t be seen as weak or whatever. And for me,

Brandon Burton (31:51.118)
Great.

Mike Conn (32:07.668)
Vulnerability. I’m not a fan of transparency because I some thoughts. I don’t want anyone to know I’m capable of It’s just it’s just weird But vulnerability, I think is a superpower and bernie brown speaks to that a lot of course and I think the more we can lean in and say Listen, I don’t know how to say this and I don’t want to make this awkward But you do a fantastic job by this this this and this it’s way different than just saying hey Brandon nice podcast

Brandon Burton (32:35.522)
Yeah. Yeah. Now the recognition piece, reminded me when I was in college, I had a, an office job and really I just helped with customer service and package things up and sent things out and you know, very mundane, you know, but in being in that job for, for long enough, I saw some areas where we could improve the process and automate a few things and just overall reduce errors and, and quicker turnaround.

Mike Conn (32:37.174)
So it’s totally different.

Brandon Burton (33:05.676)
So I worked with our IT department in the company and we implemented these changes. Well, my manager, was not my direct report, but the manager above that person, saw this and I wasn’t making hardly any money. I didn’t have a 401k. It was really just a starter, entry level job. But this manager, two levels above,

He saw it and he came one day and had a, it was just a certificate that he made on his computer and printed out in the office and probably got the frame for it at the dollar store. So the cost was very minimal, but it was the innovator award. Nobody has been awarded an innovator award before, but he presented that to me and it was awesome. You know, I put it up by my desk and the young people walk by and see it, but I felt recognized. I was seen, I was recognized. didn’t.

cost, you know, a dollar, you know, to do that. And it goes a long ways. But I wanted to ask you, as we start to wrap things up, I wanted to see what kind of tip or action item you might have that you would share for those listening who want to take their organization up to the next level.

Mike Conn (34:24.664)
Well, again, I really enjoyed the conversation and what you just articulated to me, what you articulated for us with the Innovator Award. It’s really what I want to be known for. And when I read the book, to Great, man, it was a great read until I got to chapter five and I thought he and Jim Collins asked three questions there on the hedgehog concept. And I thought this is the dumbest question I’ve ever heard in the book. Excuse me. I closed it.

The question was what do want to become the best in the world at the best in the world? What a stupid question Best in the world if I could become the best in the world at one thing. I know what would be it would be help people feel seen and feel valued but to me seen is not just a word It’s an acronym and the s is for significant because so are you are and so is every human with breath in their body Whether they look like you or vote like you or act like you

The E is for enough, because you are enough. don’t need you to try to be, if you’re, we don’t need you to try to get Instagram famous or social media famous. The second E is for entrusted. Listen, you’re quirky. I’m quirky. Like, what’s the quirk that makes you smirk? Like is it that you sing 90s one-liners when you talk about culture? Okay, then do it. Whatever that is for you, because everybody can do good, but nobody can do good.

that you can do the same way you can do it. Lots of podcasts, but people do it differently. So lean into the way that you’re built to do it. And then what I know is true is the N is for needed. And what I know is true is people who don’t feel needed do things they wouldn’t normally do to get noticed. So when you say, Mike, what’s one thing that we could do?

It brings me back to, mean, my conversation with Kev, yes, I do speak about leadership, but what I really want to do, like if you sign up for a John Maxwell course on leadership, you do it because you want to become a better leader and you will be. For me, the kind of avatar or the person who is drawn to me and my content, they’re people, they’re leaders, but they obsess over the personal growth and development and success.

Mike Conn (36:31.344)
of the people who are following them. And that’s what I would say. There’s one thing that we could do to level up our leadership immediately and improve the culture. It’s not a switch that you flip off or on. It’s a dial that you turn up. So my first question is on a scale of one to 10, one being awful, 10 being awesome, how would you rate your current culture of recognition in your workplace, of your team?

Well, it’s about a four. Okay, cool. it’s a 9.3. Okay, fantastic. Be as quick as you want. What’s the difference between a 9.3 and a 10? And then flip it around. It’s costing you the difference between a 9.3 and a 10. Which people don’t say 9.3. When I ask that question, they say it’s probably about a four. Oh, well that’s a different conversation then. What’s the difference between a four and a 10? And then what’s it costing you? And then really the finger in your chest question.

Brandon Burton (37:16.078)
Yeah.

Mike Conn (37:25.144)
How bad does it have to get before you’ll change it? How long are you willing to let it go on that way? So what I would say the easiest win for every leader, and you could do this right now as you walk out, set your timer to one minute, point at someone, go through your roster of people who report to you. Don’t call them by number, call them by name. It’s really important to people that you know their name. And then say,

Hey, Brandon, do you have do you have a minute and they come in and then you look up in the face and you say the thing that you’re proud of them for that you appreciate and then if you want bonus points you connect the success of the organization to that and then You look and see it man. No, I know that wasn’t nearly as bad as I thought it would be I’ll do that again And then before you know it you invest megaphone minute one for every person who’s on your team and the culture

Brandon Burton (38:10.838)
I’ll come at it

Mike Conn (38:18.878)
Within minutes, maybe days, worst case scenario weeks is different because you’ve reset, you’ve recalibrated what we’re looking for. And instead of looking to find what’s wrong, people now are looking to recognize and reward what people are doing well. I can give you more hours on that, but I know that’s not in our time budget today.

Brandon Burton (38:37.132)
Yeah. Right. Now I love how actionable that is though. And maybe people need to listen and skip back a few seconds, you know, two minutes or so, and then listen to that again, because it is very actionable and will make a difference. I love that, you know, the way you present things is there are actionable things you can take and do to implement in your organization, whether it’s the chamber itself or helping to foster within your member.

businesses. Mike, everybody I have on the show, I always ask them, how do you see the future of chambers of commerce and their purpose going forward?

Mike Conn (39:16.513)
I love that. I love that question. And I believe the chamber and the local public school are the two entities in every community.

that make the biggest impact because of the tremendous impact they’re already making. So that’s why my business model, I go try to partner with the local chamber and then local schools, local businesses, nonprofits, whatever. That’s how much I believe in what I’m saying. And so when I look at the future of the chamber, I see the incredible opportunity should you choose to accept it in the full mission impossible way, right? You choose to lean into it and say, how can I not try to just

Brandon Burton (39:50.382)
Great.

Mike Conn (39:54.914)
keep you as a returning member and to re-up your membership. A word swap instead of calling members, calling them investors, which I’ve heard several of your guests on the podcast use that language. And people that I’ve had conversations with, they’ve made that swap already. I really could give a 10 minute answer on this. I’ll bring it back to one line. And I’ll say what I believe the future of the chamber is.

For the people who lean into the people aspect of it Then I think not only is retention because retention and Turnover are not the same thing. There may be two different sides of the same coin But the more we lean into the people side the more retention it’s a it’s it’s very very active and the more turnover kind of dissipates because it’s it’s what we’re leaning into so the more the chamber can be the

the encourager, the conduit, the lab that gives resources to the businesses who are stretched way too thin and they don’t have an HR team, they are the HR team, they’re also the chief toilet scrubber and the trash taker outer. They do all of that together. The more that the chamber can position, you’re already in the great position to serve them and encourage them.

It’s really advocate, connect and grow, right? And to be able to lean in and help people give them something to work towards. And I know your audience is gonna keep doing it.

Brandon Burton (41:24.61)
Yeah. I love that. Well, Mike, I appreciate you spending time with us today on Chamber Chat podcast. I appreciate the the 90s references, the Montell cover solo, the Mission Impossible reference and the Nancy Kerrigan, Tanya Harding reference. mean, just right pulled right out of the 90s makes me feel like a teenager again. I love it.

I want to give you an opportunity to share any contact information for listeners who may want to reach out and connect with you or even bring you on and hire you and tap deeper into your brain and the resources you have to share.

Mike Conn (41:59.312)
Great. Man, I appreciate that. Thank you, Brandon. Again, I’ve had a great time today. I’m on LinkedIn at Mike Conn. It’s a good place. I’m on Instagram. Instagram DMs is where a lot of conversations happen. Some people like to text the old-fashioned way. I’m happy to…

My cell phone number is 580-952-9229. And for those good folks who love email, it’s Mike@MikeConnCoaching. And for those who say, but do you have a website? Well, mikeconncoaching.com. whatever is your preferred method of communication, I’m not difficult to find.

Brandon Burton (42:43.734)
That’s, that’s perfect. And we’ll get that all in the show notes. And for those listening, we are working on a, some sort of an offer for, for listeners of Chamber Chat. So if you wanted to go to chamberchatpodcast.com/MikeConn and, and find that there as well and see what all Mike can do for you and your organization and really to help your member businesses retain their, their talent that they’ve worked so hard to attract. But Mike, thanks again for spending time with us today. This has been a great.

I really appreciate you and everything you provided.

Mike Conn (43:17.41)
Thanks, Brandon. It’s my pleasure.

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