Finding More Volunteers with Becky McCray

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Brandon Burton (00:01.356)
Hello, Chamber Champions. Welcome to Chamber Chat Podcast. I’m your host, Brandon Burton, and it’s my

goal here on the podcast to introduce you to people and ideas to better help you serve your chamber members and your community. Our guest for this episode is Becky McCray. Becky is a lifelong rural entrepreneur, cattle rancher, and co-founder of Save Your Dot Town, where she helps small communities rethink how they approach growth and opportunity. With a background as a city administrator and nonprofit executive, Becky brings real world experience in workforce and community development.

She’s a creator of the widely used survey of rural challenges, a tool that’s helped agencies, educators, and businesses better understand the evolving needs of rural areas. Becky is also an award-winning author, and her latest book, The Idea Friendly Guide, empowers communities to take action without waiting for permission, funding, or perfect conditions. Having spoken at more than 300 events across the US and Canada, including Main Street America,

National League of Cities and even a TEDx event in rural Australia, combines big ideas with practical steps. And what makes her perspective truly unique? She lives at Everyday in Hopeton, Oklahoma, a town of just 30 people. But Becky, I’m excited to have you with us today here on Chamber Chat podcast. I’d to give you an opportunity to say hello to all the Chamber Champions that are out there listening. And if you would share something interesting about yourself so we can all get

to know you a little better.

Becky McCray (01:38.497)
Of course. So I’m excited to be here and this is a great chance for me to shout out my own local chamber, Alva Area Chamber of Commerce in Alva, Oklahoma. Megan and Jody are our co-directors and they’re doing a

bang-up job with our chamber. Something interesting about me is I am a former retail liquor store owner for almost 13 years, an award-winning community volunteer who burned out and quit every single committee that I was on and started entirely over. And in 2006, I started the blog Small Biz Survival the same time that I got my liquor store. And I started using that to share ideas with other rural small business owners.

Brandon Burton (02:20.328)
Very cool. I think there’s probably a few more than a few people listening who can relate to the burnout that comes from just, you know, going every direction and a hundred miles an hour all the time. So you’re in good company.

Well, tell us a little bit about Save Your Dot Town, just the organization itself, what it is. Some listeners may remember we had Deb Brown on a couple months ago from the organization as well, but for those who are not familiar, give us that synopsis of what it is that you all do.

Becky McCray (02:53.134)
Definitely go back and listen to Deb’s episode because she told great stories from her time in the Webster City Chamber of Commerce. But Deb and I started Save Your Dot Town in 2015. She was still at the chamber at the time. So she was actually piloting a lot of our idea-friendly methods in Webster City, even as we were developing and refining them. So I know one of the questions, yes, was like, tell us about your staff and budget. OK, so Deb and I are the staff. have a superstar.

Brandon Burton (03:01.23)
So, that’s

Brandon Burton (03:20.686)
Thank

Becky McCray (03:23.148)
VA named Ethan who is in the Atlanta area but has small town roots in rural Maryland and then we do a lot of collaboration with other people. So Andrew Batten with Mashup Lab and Dakota Resources and John Shepherd from the city planning world and we have a cooperation with the rural strong podcast as well and lots of other folks. So staff it’s just us but we cooperate a lot to make more things happen.

Brandon Burton (03:46.296)
Yeah.

That’s very cool. So today we’re going to lean on your expertise, on your experience and what you’ve seen with chambers and communities in general regarding finding volunteers. And that can be a hot topic, especially as chambers find themselves being volunteered for a lot of things in the community that maybe they shouldn’t or maybe they shouldn’t agree to, we’ll say. But we will dive into that as soon as we get back from this quick break.

All right, Becky, we’re back. So as I mentioned before the break, today we’re going to dive in on the topic of finding volunteers. And I know we can go deep on the subject. You’ve got some great ideas on this. But is there a high level approach you want to cover around finding volunteers before we go into the more granular points?

Becky McCray (04:40.97)
Sure, the way people volunteer is changing, but everything else is changing. So of course it makes sense that volunteering is changing as well. So the idea friendly method is just to work with volunteers, kind of letting go some of the old ways that we have done things. And the new way is to tap.

Brandon Burton (04:44.418)
Yeah.

Becky McCray (04:59.042)
people’s enthusiasm through more like viral activities and less like a committee structure. So we can talk about how modern volunteering is more about activities and less about committees.

Brandon Burton (05:12.236)
Okay, so let’s do that because I know those listening that there’s probably a love hate relationship with committees. know, they’re, they can’t do everything they do without them. At least that’s the feel. And then it’s also can be, you know, a little overwhelming to deal with, you know, a wide number of committees at an organization. So let’s talk about that first. How do you, how do you function without committees?

Becky McCray (05:39.951)
Can you function without committees? So the State and Sublimity Chamber of Commerce in Oregon, when we first started talking about killing off committees, their director at that time, Elena Turpin, emailed me and said that they had killed off almost all of their year-round committees and that they gathered people only when they needed them. And they did it using their mission. she said, we spend more time talking about how we make a difference in the community.

Brandon Burton (05:59.115)
Okay.

Becky McCray (06:08.76)
which I thought was kind of a key distinction, less time talking about could you serve on my committees and more time, this is how the chamber makes a difference in the community. So she said, then your organization becomes a movement that people can get behind and not just another volunteer opportunity. And I have been quoting that for years because I felt like it really summarized the way that we can organize people around those activities and less of getting them onto committees.

Brandon Burton (06:30.19)
Yeah

Becky McCray (06:35.2)
And it was really made clear to me when I was in Caldwell, Kansas, which has a population of about thousand people. We went around the room and everyone introduced themselves. And I noticed that people that were maybe my age and older, introduced themselves by the organizations that they belong to and serve. So like one person is like, I’m on the Chamber of Commerce Executive Committee. I volunteer with the Historical Society and I’m on the alumni board.

But then people who were like maybe my age and younger didn’t have a list of organizations to point to. It really struck me. They talked about their activities, things they like to do. So there’s a younger woman named Laura who said, I love to garden. Some friends and I do a book club.

Brandon Burton (07:09.902)
That’s an interesting point, yeah.

Becky McCray (07:25.116)
and I have a little free library. She was so hesitant because she didn’t have that list of organizations. She just told us what she liked to do in the community. So if we think of assigning her to a committee, we’re never going to get Laura.

but we’ll get that older volunteer who thinks in terms of committees. But if we want Laura to do something, we have to go, okay, she likes gardening, she likes reading, she has a little free library, maybe she’s crafty and made it, right? Like these are things we can tap in terms of things she likes to do. But we’re gonna get her more with the no committee method than we are with the, hey, join this committee, serve for a full year or a three year term on a committee. Like who knows where they’re gonna be in three years. And if you need a way to think

Brandon Burton (08:01.134)
Right.

Becky McCray (08:08.054)
of it, you can think of it instead of a committee, but as a talent pool. A talent pool is where you put someone who has a talent and you call on them when you need them. So you don’t need to assign them to, you know, the beautification committee if you call them when you need help with a beautification project.

Brandon Burton (08:08.653)
Yeah.

Brandon Burton (08:14.286)
Okay.

Brandon Burton (08:29.921)
Yeah.

Becky McCray (08:30.924)
The talent pool could form at any time. It could be around for any length of time. You might dissolve a talent pool when you didn’t need that particular talent anymore. You know, don’t call a committee meeting of the talent pool. You just call on people from the talent pool when you need them.

Brandon Burton (08:45.27)
Yeah, so it’s.

So that’s, I guess the next question where my mind is going with this is,

So say your example with Laura, maybe she’s crafty with the little free library she did, you’ve got a project coming up. Laura would be great to be a part of this because of her skillset, her talents, her tools that she brings. Still, I think there’s a tendency to say, let’s form a committee for this project, right? So even if you’re tapping into a talent pool, how can one…

get past that mindset of this needs to be formalized as a committee or have somebody to report to or keep everything else organized. How do you make things happen?

Becky McCray (09:30.883)
You know, real organizations that have done this talk about how they’ll have folks that have some experience will just figure out what it is the project, what is the outcome that you want to have. And that’s a goal that’s related to your community. The goal is never to have a committee. That’s not why we have a chamber. The goal of the chamber is to make a stronger, more prosperous community. And so if you think about that, how does this project lead to a more prosperous community?

Brandon Burton (09:54.126)
Thank

Becky McCray (10:00.958)
Knowing that then, you can break it up and go, how can we move these pieces around? Somebody can take this part, somebody can take that part and divide it up, go do it. When you come back together, the bulk of it may be done. It may be all done. Now, I really think that the key here is to think of the volunteer motivation as a curve, like as a power law curve. So there’s only a few people who have huge motivation.

Brandon Burton (10:05.23)
This is the right time.

Becky McCray (10:30.562)
But there’s a lot of people way down here on the long tail who have like small motivation. They have a very small motivation, but there’s a lot of them. And so if the project is the downtown flower boxes, they’re going to need constructed there, or maybe they need repairs. They need to be repainted and then they need to be revitalized with new flowers. Well, we don’t need to ask one person to be in charge of every single bit of that so much as we could simply put out that this is what we’re trying to do.

Brandon Burton (10:34.062)
Yeah.

Brandon Burton (10:43.598)
you

Brandon Burton (10:54.638)
the best we can.

Becky McCray (11:00.024)
Can you adopt one? Can you come and do a particular task towards making that happen? We’re looking for people for the flower planting party. We don’t need a committee to have a flower planting party so much as we just need to arrange for the resources we need, bring those together, and then see if it doesn’t happen, right? Now, obviously there are some, like I was speaking with the Association of Fairs and Expos.

Brandon Burton (11:02.92)
Yeah.

Brandon Burton (11:25.582)
Thank you.

Becky McCray (11:25.91)
And so this is like your county fair people and your state fair people. And they’re like, okay, so some things we absolutely have to have organized. Sure, then go ahead and make those things absolutely organized. But try to think how many things could we turn into kind of more of a viral challenge? Can you do a little tiny part and post a picture of yourself rather than serving on a year round committee?

Brandon Burton (11:47.895)
Okay, so that’s what you mean by the viral, making something viral. So that’s a good example. Yeah, let’s go in deeper on that.

Becky McCray (11:53.964)
Yeah, you want to talk more about that?

Brandon Burton (11:59.791)
I mean, you had mentioned that things, everything is changing, right? And including volunteers. So maybe before we go the viral wave, do you think the change with volunteers, is that just a generational thing? Is it a change with technology and how people interact with others? And is that pointing to where the the viruleness of getting volunteers?

becomes a factor. What do you see and why do you think that change, what’s driving that change?

Becky McCray (12:34.606)
A long time ago I noticed that a lot of the organizations that we’re familiar with in our communities have a founding date in the 1900s or 1910s. Like there’s a lot of organizations that you could name that started in that time period. it was several communications tools came together.

Like we had the telegraph and we started having like first class postage stamps so you could mail things easily without having to have each individual piece taken to the post office, weighed, individual postage applied to the penny. Like you could just put a stamp on it and send it. The typewriter was introduced and then you had carbon paper and you could make two copies of something so easily rather than write everything longhand. And then,

Brandon Burton (13:14.638)
you

Becky McCray (13:20.13)
Not surprisingly, this is the same time period when we get the organizational chart is first used in business. And then Robert’s Rules of Order is introduced. And so there was this boom in how we did organizations around those specific tools. But as I’m describing them to you, you were thinking, those are some really old fashioned tools. I haven’t telegraphed anybody.

Brandon Burton (13:40.6)
thing this is great technology this is awesome at the time it was

Becky McCray (13:43.083)
It’s so awesome. I know I have a great picture of a typewriter and it’s an ad and it’s got like rays of light behind it and a crown over its head because it is so amazing. But we have moved beyond that. Even if you collect typewriters for fun, you are not sitting down at your Smith Corona portable and handling all of your daily business with it.

unless you’re really exceptional. But we have, we all know what kind of communication tools we have today and the amount of computing power we carry in our hands. of since the organizational tools we’ve all been trained with were created and used around a time period and around tools that are no longer the cutting edge.

New ways of organizing ourselves need to take advantage of the communication tools available to us today. And so that’s the long version of how we ended up with this change. So what the viral difference looks like is I was in Pullman, Washington, which has a population of about 40,000 people. And they had a dirty sidewalk problem. And they were talking about we should do another cleanup day. And so one person

Brandon Burton (14:41.378)
Yeah.

Becky McCray (15:00.386)
from the back of the room says, the chamber did the last cleanup day. The chamber should do another one. This is exactly what you were talking about. People volunteer the chamber into doing things. Fortunately, I was standing there and I said, no, you do not get to assign this to somebody else. If you don’t want to do it, then it doesn’t need to happen because it’s not your priority. And they were very awkwardly quiet for a minute.

Brandon Burton (15:09.344)
Yep. Volunteer the chamber.

Brandon Burton (15:23.438)
Great point.

Becky McCray (15:27.552)
And then a business owner in the back of the room raised her hand and she said, her name’s Willow. She said, I will sweep my own sidewalk. Which is perfect, right? Like that’s great. That’s at least one section of sidewalk that’s gonna be cleaner. I suggested to Willow that she should take a photo, she should post it on Instagram and tag two of her friends who are also merchants downtown and say, today is clean your own sidewalk day. Go out and sweep your sidewalk.

This is what Willow did. And this worked for Pullman. Suddenly, almost all of the downtown merchants were sweeping their sidewalks on Wednesday afternoons. That’s Clean Your Own Sidewalk Day in Pullman, Washington. And seeing that, then the city says, if you’re going to do that on Wednesday afternoons, we can run the street sweeper early, early on Thursday morning and pick all that up. But if Willow had tried to committee her way into this,

Brandon Burton (16:09.41)
That’s awesome.

Becky McCray (16:24.82)
Let’s form a committee at the chamber. We’re going to put people on the committee that they will sweep sidewalks, and then we’re going to try to talk the city into changing their work schedule. If she had tried to convince people of this, everyone would have resisted. Willow didn’t try to convince anybody of anything. Willow enticed them into doing a thing that felt more like a fun viral challenge and less like, hey, could you serve a three-year term on the beautification committee?

or give up your entire Saturday for Cleanup Day on the hottest day of the year because Cleanup Day is always the hottest day of the year.

Brandon Burton (17:00.918)
That’s right. It doesn’t matter where you are or what you’re doing. It’s always going to be that.

Becky McCray (17:03.724)
You can schedule that thing for the depths of winter and it will turn off scorching.

Brandon Burton (17:08.268)
That’s right. Well, and honestly, who wants to go to a committee meeting about sweeping your sidewalks, right? But when you put it in their hands, there’s a sense of pride that comes with it where they want to share it. And it has that snowball viral, the viral effect, which is awesome. I love that idea and being able to just put the ownership back in their hands, but then to see it gain momentum. That’s so cool.

Becky McCray (17:16.299)
Exactly.

Becky McCray (17:34.361)
Right, and the key thing is to find what’s the tiny, small piece that each person can do on their own that adds up to the result we want for our community. The result they want is a clean downtown, and so each person cleaning one section of sidewalk is a usable unit to make that happen. And we don’t need accountability. We don’t need somebody to go around and go, you didn’t sweep your sidewalk. Like, chill out, dude. That’s not how this works.

Brandon Burton (17:52.492)
Yeah.

Becky McCray (18:01.714)
You know, but it’s more fun to like have three other people keep tagging you of like, I was sweeping my own sidewalk. Like Willow literally owns a cute broom so she can have better photo ops when she cleans her sidewalk.

Brandon Burton (18:01.91)
Right.

Brandon Burton (18:12.27)
Yeah. But on the next level could be clean your neighbor’s sidewalk day, you know, and it’s like doing an act of service for somebody else and it could just keep going.

Becky McCray (18:21.88)
I know. And there’s two parts to that. Willow told me that there was one person who would not clean their sidewalk and some of their customers started doing it on Clean Your Own Sidewalk Day, would come and sweep their business sidewalk because the customer wanted to see them be part of it. Now tell me that’s not amazing community involvement. The second thing is, like if you have some stuff that you want folks to do, one way to do that is like make your honey do list for your community.

Brandon Burton (18:40.716)
That is cool. That is really cool.

Becky McCray (18:49.964)
I stole this idea from Rob Hatch from Maine when there was a controversy in his town because some people took it on themselves to do a thing and then the city didn’t approve of them having done it. It turned into a giant fight. How dare they replace that old bridge on the walking trail, right? Like, okay, but what if we just made a list of things that it’s okay for people to do? And then they could pick from that. And so if on that is like,

Brandon Burton (19:14.926)
We have to make a good project. And so, when we have this project, it’s not a mistake, I don’t know why it is.

Becky McCray (19:18.412)
somebody needs to power wash the benches in the downtown, do you know anybody that owns a power washer? They love their power washers. They’re dying for things that they can go power wash because it’s so much fun. And so if one of the entries on that list is power wash the downtown benches, somebody is going to be like doing their back deck going, I love doing my power washing. Wonder if there’s any I can do. They can pull up the list. They can go up benches downtown, off they go.

Brandon Burton (19:39.458)
Yeah.

Brandon Burton (19:46.232)
Yeah.

Becky McCray (19:47.041)
It’s going to get done. You didn’t do anything but put it on the list. So if you can maintain a list of like these things are OK to do, it’s OK to clean out these flower boxes. It’s OK to wash these windows. It’s OK to, you know, anything that you’re trying to organize, if you can find that small piece that people can do, but then let them know. Then we talked about that curve of like lots of people have little motivation.

I don’t have to be super motivated so much as I just need to find the piece on that list that matches my motivation.

Brandon Burton (20:20.0)
Yeah, that’s funny about the power washers. It’s like somebody with a chainsaw too, right? I mean, if they get a chance to use it, they’re out using it, right? And they’ll do whatever they need to to provide that service. I love that. So these honey do lists for the community, which is just suggest like, say a chamber where to do it.

Becky McCray (20:24.736)
You know, they are.

Brandon Burton (20:41.304)
Do they put it on their website? Do they share it on social media? Do they put it down like one thing at a time? Or do you just keep a list out there at all times? What do you think would work best or what have you seen work as far as a honeydew list go?

Becky McCray (20:56.568)
So the idea of friendly method says test it, take small steps, try it out. So it’s going to work different in your community than my community. So just try something out. But here’s my suggestion. First of all, just start making a list of the things you wish you had time to accomplish yourself. My own Alva chamber, at one point it was, come in and assemble the cabinet that we’re going to set our copier on. OK, just put that on the list. You haven’t had time to do it? I totally understand.

Brandon Burton (21:04.045)
Yeah.

Brandon Burton (21:20.821)
Okay.

Becky McCray (21:25.634)
was going to move the copier to a more accessible, easier to access height so that it’d be easier to work at. This is a usable thing. Somebody is good at putting together flat pack furniture, and it may not be you. So put that on the list. Go around, think of all the things you know of, put together that list. Where should you share it? Where do people actually pay attention to you? That’s changing all the time. So you figure out how it works best.

If you have a text message service and you’re like texting people about events, text people and say, the updated honeydew list is at link. And make sure it’s mobile friendly so they can go and go, power wash the benches, I’m in, or paint the railings, I’ve got some leftover paint. Whatever those things are. So start with what you know, put it the places you know you can get people’s attention, and include on there how they can nominate a task that they see.

Brandon Burton (22:00.175)
Thank

Brandon Burton (22:06.189)
Yeah.

Brandon Burton (22:20.526)
I like that.

Becky McCray (22:20.934)
there’s this empty building and I see the light fixture has fallen down in there, the flower box in front, everything is dead. That can go on the list. Somebody can, and this actually happened in Pullman, it was a city council member adopted the flower box on the front of the empty building, planted flowers and carried water to it all summer and had great conversations with people about the future of downtown.

Brandon Burton (22:42.474)
I bet, I bet. So what would you think if you catch somebody in the act, you know, doing one of these items of service on the honeydew list, you snap a picture and share that out too, and then people know you’re crossing it off the list or?

Becky McCray (22:57.62)
Absolutely, I love that. That’s a great, I hadn’t thought about that particular part of it. Like, could you catch them doing it? You could ask them to let you know when they do it, and so that you know what’s been done, or you just may notice things. And even if you didn’t catch them doing it, you just noticed the new flowers or the clean bench, or the copier is suddenly at the right level. Like, take a picture and go ahead and say, I don’t know what anonymous volunteer did this for us. Great to have it. This looks wonderful.

Or if you see, just the same as you do already, like when you see two businesses do a cooperative ad, do you not like take a picture of that and like promote it and go, look at these businesses cooperating, we love to see that. Whatever you’re trying to encourage, you should encourage.

Brandon Burton (23:36.174)
Yeah.

That’s right. So just overall, what would you say the secret is to attracting volunteers? You talked about getting that talent pool, that list of abilities and talents of others, but if you had to kind of hone it down into what is the secret, what is the formula to getting volunteers, what would you say?

Becky McCray (24:02.734)
The secret is to let go of the old ways that you have been taught as much as possible and tap into the ways that people like to do things. So if it’s just three words, it’s entice, not convince.

Brandon Burton (24:17.451)
Okay, I’ll make that entice, not convince. That’s awesome. Any other lessons that have stood out to you as you’ve seen other communities adopt these practices for getting volunteers that really stand out to you? Any other stories or examples that you want to point to?

Becky McCray (24:37.446)
I do want to tell a Deb story because I have the chance to tell a Deb story. When Deb, you know I’m going to tag her. my gosh, I’m so going to tag her. So when Deb was at the Chamber of Commerce in Webster City, Iowa, which has a population of I think about 8,000 people. So it’s kind of to me a big town and to some of y’all a small town. Just depends. So they did an event called Junk Fest, J-U-N-Q-U-E because it was nice junk. Junk Fest.

Brandon Burton (24:39.552)
Okay. Make sure to tag her on this so she’ll know. She’ll know we’re talking about her.

Brandon Burton (24:56.918)
Right from 30. Yeah. Yeah.

Brandon Burton (25:05.55)
Classy joke.

Becky McCray (25:06.35)
It’s a big, you know, craft and classy junk and recycled and upcycled and all the great things. So they originally did it with like the old way volunteers. So it was Deb and two really good core volunteers who put the thing together. And Deb was chamber director. So Deb and these two volunteers put the whole thing together. They managed to make it work. It was great. They loved it. The second year, a group of people who didn’t qualify as

for Junkfest because they were home-based sellers of like home goods or cosmetics or something that didn’t qualify for being part of the handmade Junkfest. They said they wanted to be part of it, but they had talked to somebody that owned a lot across the street from the location. Could they set up over there? Now, this is kind of against the rules, but Deb and her core volunteers are idea friendly enough that they go, sure, come alongside. So this is one of our secrets in

Small Town says like, let the new volunteers come alongside so that they can add to the event that we’re putting on, even if it’s not part of the old way we’ve always done it. Let people innovate in nearby spaces. Then year three went great. Year four, it felt like it all fell apart for Deb because her two core volunteers could not help this year for personal reasons. And

Brandon Burton (26:12.302)
you

are not the work I’m interested in.

you

Brandon Burton (26:29.133)
There’s a lot of those things. I don’t know if you’ve heard of those things.

Becky McCray (26:35.298)
they had to move to a different location. So this feels like the whole thing has been blown apart. They were expecting 7,500 attendees the same as the last year. And she’s going, can I do all this by myself? So with that intimidating information, she went, I don’t have to do all that by myself. At this point, idea friendly was already a thing. So Deb applied some idea friendly method thinking of.

Brandon Burton (26:38.798)
Okay.

Becky McCray (27:00.63)
I need to have small but meaningful ways for lots of people to participate. So she called some of the vendors who knew a lot of the other vendors. So she called them in. They came to a lunch and they sat down together and the vendor said to Deb, like, so what are you going to do? And Deb said, actually, this is, and she told a story just like this, what are we going to do? Right.

Brandon Burton (27:03.64)
Yeah.

Brandon Burton (27:19.106)
We’re do, right?

Becky McCray (27:24.034)
but this is their event and she’s like, you know what works for you? You tell me, what if we just like figure out a bunch of ideas for you to try out and find what works? So they all start sharing these ideas. They didn’t write them all down. They just like went, ooh yeah, that one. And they didn’t like formally vote on them. They didn’t run them to the subcommittee. They didn’t like send out a mail poll. They figured out what they wanted to do. They chose the ones that seemed most promising at that point that they could test out. And so then they did what they ended up doing. They…

decided they wanted to bring their trailers because they all have a trailer they use to bring their stuff to junk fest. It was now going to be in downtown. Well, they weren’t allowed to do it when it was in the park since it was downtown. They talked to the city council and they giving them permission to just go ahead and do it even though it was against the city code. So they did do it, they got permission. So they brought their trailers. They changed the size of the spaces a little bit to better fit the new location. like…

Brandon Burton (27:58.575)
friends.

Becky McCray (28:18.688)
the vendors led on this. This wasn’t just Deb doing it by herself or with her core volunteers. She had all the people who were most involved taking all those small pieces. So much like for Willow, cleaning her own sidewalk was a meaningful unit, for the vendors, helping to determine what works for them is a meaningful unit. So what Deb actually said at the time, and I have the quote she wrote about it, she said, this changed my whole outlook on this event. It is now fun again.

Brandon Burton (28:29.358)
you

you

Brandon Burton (28:42.19)
And all of a sudden, this is changed by the outcome of this war. It is not a friendly war.

Becky McCray (28:46.924)
because I’m not doing it alone by rote and everyone has a small but meaningful role. So she was much less stressed because she had a lot less of the responsibility on her own shoulders and everybody took a smaller piece. So I just love this idea that rather than finish all the plans herself from the comfort of her office, she brought it forward to the vendors and it was up to them to take more parts of that and make it happen.

Brandon Burton (28:52.43)
Thank you.

Brandon Burton (29:00.107)
Yeah.

Brandon Burton (29:12.566)
Yeah, that’s a great idea, great example. Thank you, Deb, for listening. Thanks for that. Well, Becky, I like asking on behalf of all the Chamber Champions that are listening who want to take their organization up to the next level, what kind of tip or action item would you share with them as they strive towards that goal?

Becky McCray (29:35.823)
I had to go back and listen to Deb’s tip and make sure I wasn’t going to give the same one. So one that is not what she said is to start a success list. And this is an idea I got from Carol Peterson, Milnor, North Dakota, population 700. And so she started, she received this advice when she started, she passes it on to others, I’m passing it on to you. But every time a business opened, she wrote it down. If they expanded, if they remodeled.

Brandon Burton (29:39.874)
Yeah.

Becky McCray (30:04.242)
New investments, business successions, new truck businesses and trailer businesses, so like the food trucks, home-based businesses, finding every business that opens, expands, remodels, all of that. And then she adds in grants, community projects, public improvements, successful events, any of these that win an award, this all goes onto her success list. And so for a town of 700 people, they have this

list of amazing things that they have accomplished together and so when somebody says nothing good ever happens in Milnor she’s like have you seen the success list? She’s got to respond and again you asked how do you promote this? You promote it everywhere. You promote it everywhere and I think the reason that I think this would help you take your thing to the next level even if you already track part of this and you think that’s good. A success list reminds you of what’s going well.

Brandon Burton (30:43.054)
Right? I love that.

Becky McCray (31:02.602)
It reminds people they’re part of a winning team that’s doing good things. It counters the negativity of nothing good ever happens here or no business has ever come here. And also when you start digging deeper for this level of success, you’re gonna uncover a lot of people who are doing amazing things in your community that you didn’t know about. They have been flying below the radar doing a community group or a small activity club or like they’re doing a kayaking group or there’s a running club.

These are the people who are shaping the future of your community and you want to know about them and you want to share their successes so you build a stronger feeling of community.

Brandon Burton (31:37.577)
So, that was kind of fun.

Yeah, I love that. And even tapping into those people who have the kayaking club and the running club and everything, they have their group of followers. So as they get on board with the vision of whatever the chamber’s doing, whatever project they want to volunteer with, whatever they’re getting involved with, they have an audience, they have their group that they can share things with too. And back to the point of getting those volunteers, you get one person from a running club that shows up to something and they’re going to bring five or 10 people with them. So.

I think that’s great advice. I like asking everyone I have on the show about how they see the future of Chambers and their purpose going forward.

Becky McCray (32:13.326)
Definitely.

Becky McCray (32:22.4)
And while I’m not a chamber person, I do hear from Deb, like I get an earful from Deb about Chamber World, but I do, looking at all the trends that I see and all of the results that we get on our Survey of Rural Challenges and what people tell us about their communities and what their challenges are, in-person connections, where people can have a shared experience that gives them something to reflect on and think about what they just were part of.

Brandon Burton (32:26.51)
Great.

Becky McCray (32:47.51)
If it can help them connect with different groups in the community, people they never normally talk to, it’s gonna change their way of thinking. And if they play a small but meaningful role in it, even if they just sweep one sidewalk, then they see themselves as the kind of person who’s involved in their community and does positive things. So when you add that up, then you are creating a stronger community. You are overcoming our divisiveness, and you’re giving people that space to.

Brandon Burton (33:06.126)
Thank

Becky McCray (33:14.958)
our way into a new way of thinking about our community and about our own role in it.

Brandon Burton (33:21.634)
Yeah, I love that idea of building those in-person connections.

And in a world where, you know, everyone’s doing the social media thing, AI has taken a huge role in things. You know, people, I’m not one of these people, but some people think the ideal world is where you never have to leave your house and you just stay in your house and AI does everything for you and technology, this and that. But having those human connections, we are human and we need those connections and utilizing some of these tools even, like you’re talking about postings, the sweeping the sidewalk on social media.

you’re utilizing these tools, but you’re utilizing them in a way to make in-person connections. And I love that because it’s meeting people where they are and then…

appreciate that. Becky, I want to give you a chance to share any contact information for listeners who may want to reach out and connect with you and learn more about what you Deb are up to. Where would you point them and what would be the best way to connect?

Becky McCray (34:23.444)
SaveYour.town is our website address. BeckyMcCray.com is my personal website and I have a newsletter that goes out there. And if you go to SmallBizSurvival.com, that’s that blog I started in 2006 for small town businesses, still alive, still thriving, still going. So if you need to know something about small town business, SmallBizSurvival.com is a great resource for you.

Brandon Burton (34:42.584)
next.

Brandon Burton (34:48.428)
So we’ll make sure that’s all in our show notes for this episode. But this has been a lot of fun having you on on Chamber Chat podcast and sharing these examples and stories of communities across the country and the good that they’re doing and gathering volunteers and not, you I see it as you see the old image of.

you driving a team with a horse and carriage and you’re doing the whip versus being in the front and then people follow. And I see that, you know, with this kind of model and how it’s working. So let’s be the leaders, let’s be out there and have other people be encouraged to follow us. Becky, this is great. I really appreciate you spending time with us.

Becky McCray (35:28.214)
I love it. I love your closing image of not being the driver, but being like, hey, let’s go do it together.

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